Thanks a lot for encouraging farmers to become less dependent on the government! I think it's an important issue that advocates don't talk about for fear of alienating allies that accept subsidies. Breaking the subsidy habit is good for the soul, it involves a helluva lot less paperwork and kissing bureaucratic ass, it allows you more flexibility, it helps to develop more economically sustainable farm systems, it means the government can't hold you hostage by threatening to take your money away, and most importantly, if we can ever completely break the habit, it'll solve a lot of problems in the developing world, where farmers have to compete against our subsidies. Keep it up, Curtis!
americanslime Yes! the thought, conceptually came to mind but until now didn't know that's what it's called. Is a lawyer or financer involved w drawing up that sort of contract?
I really like the community bond idea. Great way to get some capital and get rid of some of the product you produce at the same time rather then trying to find new customers sell it and then pay interest. I bet the people that give you the bond also would help promote your product to their family and friends since they have a vested interest in your success.
You are a breath of fresh air in a environment of Farmers that bleed Gov Subsidies! You are correct on credit unions, they are more Local or Comm minded.
Thanks This can also be true with solar, it can be more affordable to take out a loan and buy what you need, hire the pro's to install. Because the rent your roof could cost you more in the end or you may not be able to qualify for what you want. you may also build a more robust system like battery backup/generator support, more panels for your money when paying cash.
Another way to get a low interest loan is to borrow from your 401k. I left my corporate job to start farming and had a decent savings in my 401k. you can borrow up to half of it with no tax penalties as long as you pay it back. It is nice not having anyone with their hands in your business. I looked into some FSA loans but they wanted to have control over how I operate. just thought I would share. Thanks for your great work! You have been a great resources for many including myself.
You also forget that Private investment could be, allowance to allow use of their property to grow on as well. Since the space for use to grow on to make the farm could be considered private investment.
I tried the crowdfunding of five thousand on Kickstarter and Indiegogo. I got a couple of people on Kickstarter, but no dice. Now I am on Go Fund Me for eight thousand and I got nothing, nada, zilch. Maybe that will change by next year. I have no friends in Camden County that would drop even a dollar. Lots of cheapskates around here. The Community Bond sounds interesting, where could I learn more? I will probably wait until the NJTV report comes out about my farm in the Fall so I have something to take to the credit union, like, see that, we were on tv. CSA, the one market I have been doing, people are oblivious to CSA and could care less. Will be doing a second farmers market, hopefully folks there are more interested in CSA.
Family farmers must reclaim their land , that massif arming corporates plundered. Family farmers are the ultimate hope of bring back wholesome, holistic & whole foods back to Turkish homes.
Curtis you mentioned in your book and videos your experience raising capital through tree planting, getting your mortgage, etc. Have you had any personal experiences with crowdfunding, grant applications, or trying to raise private/community capital?
Byron Tenkink I think his start up capital came from the $7000 saved from tree planting. it was some time later when he had an established system that he took out a mortgage to purchase the property the was renting because the owner wanted to put it on the market. I'm pretty sure the business was the impetus for the mortgage rather than taking out a mortgage to start a business.
Does the Canadian Securities Administrators (ironic acronym there) have to oversee all offers of securities, i.e. community bonds? If you call something a bond I would assume that you need a lawyer to guide that process. I know you like asking forgiveness rather than permission, but offering bonds without a lawyer seems a little risky. I know you haven't said not to consult a lawyer. I'm just asking what you think about that.
The risk with a CSA is just huge in this regard: Suppose you are starting and you find 50 people for 50 CSA shares, and then you can't deliver. Even if you get things going in the next year, you have probably lost many of those 50 customers forever. These are people who could have been your core revenue base for many years, plus the referrals they would generate, etc. Maybe you could find a way to make good in the following year, but that would still hurt your revenue in year two.
I got a couple acres out in the high desert 29 Palms California, you think I can get a profitable farm situation going there? Or is the environment too dry?
Curtis is on a high desert (think Colorado) and he does well. You'll need to water well and include some fertilizer but the more you work on it, the better your soil will get.
I don't trust subsidies anyways.... at least with my non-ag experience, I had gotten a subsidy for healthcare due to my low salary for about a year where they helped pay a certain percentage of each monthly payment for insurance. As soon as I got a slightly higher paying job (still well below MD state average but I guess it went over their limit), they made me pay every penny back when it was taxes time. MAde me just not trust them much...
Hi Curtis. Here in Ontario the Wynne Government just made it harder to be a farmer due to the new Provincial Impact Tax that basically put your annual tax bill so high that it is very hard to continue to farm the land.
Urban Farmer Curtis Stone Pay no mind to my pessimism. I struggle to stay positive in an increasingly negative world. I do appreciate the knowledge that you are spreading, and for what it is worth, I would like to thank you for that because you have actually convinced me to take the chance as well. I have been an avid gardener for the past five years and I too, am tired of "checking my values" every Monday when it comes time to put my work boots on. That really hit home for me. I have the land, the infrastructure, and a great head-start on soil as far as organic content is concerned. But most importantly, I have the desire. The desire to be both self-sufficient, and to not be a tool for this cognitive system. Cheers from Southeastern PA!
Good luck to you! I am going for it as well. I am unemployed. So hubby works 50 hrs a week. I can get started..then who knows! One thing in my State is if you farm more than 4 acres and make more than $2.000 my State makes you jump through hoops. Register your farm,have your scales inspected, take safe gardening classes, water shed inspection..they want you to wash your produce in a chlorine solution..ugh...i understand that crops have to be safe, but these state imposed regulations cost money. I'm staying small for now.
Curtis - Good luck with your show in Memphis. I would love to attend but I can't get away from my day-job for a couple of weeks because we are in a critical design review and I am in the middle of some hot issues on payload battery safety too. Please do come back to the South-East more often! Maybe we can hold a workshop in my log barn on my garden/worm-farm operation one day! I do have a website for the worm-farm side of my operation: www.GreenGregs.comGreg Allison
That is so right on. Curtis, you are gifted. Some day they will build monuments and theme parks in your honor.
Thanks a lot for encouraging farmers to become less dependent on the government! I think it's an important issue that advocates don't talk about for fear of alienating allies that accept subsidies. Breaking the subsidy habit is good for the soul, it involves a helluva lot less paperwork and kissing bureaucratic ass, it allows you more flexibility, it helps to develop more economically sustainable farm systems, it means the government can't hold you hostage by threatening to take your money away, and most importantly, if we can ever completely break the habit, it'll solve a lot of problems in the developing world, where farmers have to compete against our subsidies.
Keep it up, Curtis!
The community bonds idea is something I've never heard before, good to know.
americanslime Yes! the thought, conceptually came to mind but until now didn't know that's what it's called.
Is a lawyer or financer involved w drawing up that sort of contract?
I really like the community bond idea. Great way to get some capital and get rid of some of the product you produce at the same time rather then trying to find new customers sell it and then pay interest. I bet the people that give you the bond also would help promote your product to their family and friends since they have a vested interest in your success.
You are a breath of fresh air in a environment of Farmers that bleed Gov Subsidies! You are correct on credit unions, they are more Local or Comm minded.
Always good information from you. I will be self funded but it's good stuff to know and I appreciate you sharing.
Loving your book so far, Curtis. Would love to fly from Ontario and see what you do in person some day.
all about that 1st year day job grinder and prep for 2nd year real deal.
Another Great Video! Thanks Curtis
Thanks
This can also be true with solar, it can be more affordable to take out a loan and buy what you need, hire the pro's to install.
Because the rent your roof could cost you more in the end or you may not be able to qualify for what you want.
you may also build a more robust system like battery backup/generator support, more panels for your money when paying cash.
Well said Curtis.... Thanks for your thoughts!
Very helpful !! Thanks for all the help !!
good info about the CSA. If you just want to transition slowly (one or two crops vs 15), the farmer's market will be a better option.
Great video Curtis. Thank you again!
Another way to get a low interest loan is to borrow from your 401k. I left my corporate job to start farming and had a decent savings in my 401k. you can borrow up to half of it with no tax penalties as long as you pay it back. It is nice not having anyone with their hands in your business. I looked into some FSA loans but they wanted to have control over how I operate. just thought I would share. Thanks for your great work! You have been a great resources for many including myself.
jeremiah squilla hey man , Id like to hear more, would you be willing to talk?
You also forget that Private investment could be, allowance to allow use of their property to grow on as well. Since the space for use to grow on to make the farm could be considered private investment.
I tried the crowdfunding of five thousand on Kickstarter and Indiegogo. I got a couple of people on Kickstarter, but no dice. Now I am on Go Fund Me for eight thousand and I got nothing, nada, zilch. Maybe that will change by next year. I have no friends in Camden County that would drop even a dollar. Lots of cheapskates around here. The Community Bond sounds interesting, where could I learn more? I will probably wait until the NJTV report comes out about my farm in the Fall so I have something to take to the credit union, like, see that, we were on tv. CSA, the one market I have been doing, people are oblivious to CSA and could care less. Will be doing a second farmers market, hopefully folks there are more interested in CSA.
Love to learn even though I just have a small garden . Great video.
Lots of info
THANKS DOR SHARIN ‼️‼️
Family farmers must reclaim their land , that massif arming corporates plundered.
Family farmers are the ultimate hope of bring back wholesome, holistic & whole foods back to Turkish homes.
Great information!! Thank you!!
We never use out credit card. Would you recommend me paying for some tools that way?
Good info, but 1 problem - substantial money becoming "a thing" between friends is a sure way to ruin friendships.
Curtis you mentioned in your book and videos your experience raising capital through tree planting, getting your mortgage, etc.
Have you had any personal experiences with crowdfunding, grant applications, or trying to raise private/community capital?
Byron Tenkink I think his start up capital came from the $7000 saved from tree planting. it was some time later when he had an established system that he took out a mortgage to purchase the property the was renting because the owner wanted to put it on the market. I'm pretty sure the business was the impetus for the mortgage rather than taking out a mortgage to start a business.
Does the Canadian Securities Administrators (ironic acronym there) have to oversee all offers of securities, i.e. community bonds? If you call something a bond I would assume that you need a lawyer to guide that process. I know you like asking forgiveness rather than permission, but offering bonds without a lawyer seems a little risky. I know you haven't said not to consult a lawyer. I'm just asking what you think about that.
The risk with a CSA is just huge in this regard: Suppose you are starting and you find 50 people for 50 CSA shares, and then you can't deliver. Even if you get things going in the next year, you have probably lost many of those 50 customers forever. These are people who could have been your core revenue base for many years, plus the referrals they would generate, etc. Maybe you could find a way to make good in the following year, but that would still hurt your revenue in year two.
@ 9:11 you might want to correct that 20x $5k not $10k
I got a couple acres out in the high desert 29 Palms California, you think I can get a profitable farm situation going there? Or is the environment too dry?
Curtis is on a high desert (think Colorado) and he does well. You'll need to water well and include some fertilizer but the more you work on it, the better your soil will get.
OK sounds cool :)
I don't trust subsidies anyways.... at least with my non-ag experience, I had gotten a subsidy for healthcare due to my low salary for about a year where they helped pay a certain percentage of each monthly payment for insurance. As soon as I got a slightly higher paying job (still well below MD state average but I guess it went over their limit), they made me pay every penny back when it was taxes time. MAde me just not trust them much...
thanks for sharing.
Where you from?
What type of health insurance do you have?
He lives in Canada.
Hi Curtis. Here in Ontario the Wynne Government just made it harder to be a farmer due to the new Provincial Impact Tax that basically put your annual tax bill so high that it is very hard to continue to farm the land.
that is a tough one. I just read our regs. If I stay really small it is ok.
see you in W. Memphis
LOL. I can get thousands of dollars from my friends and family? Why didn't I ever think of that?
Sorry that I don't have all the solutions for you!
Urban Farmer Curtis Stone
Pay no mind to my pessimism. I struggle to stay positive in an increasingly negative world. I do appreciate the knowledge that you are spreading, and for what it is worth, I would like to thank you for that because you have actually convinced me to take the chance as well. I have been an avid gardener for the past five years and I too, am tired of "checking my values" every Monday when it comes time to put my work boots on. That really hit home for me. I have the land, the infrastructure, and a great head-start on soil as far as organic content is concerned. But most importantly, I have the desire. The desire to be both self-sufficient, and to not be a tool for this cognitive system. Cheers from Southeastern PA!
Good luck to you! I am going for it as well. I am unemployed. So hubby works 50 hrs a week. I can get started..then who knows! One thing in my State is if you farm more than 4 acres and make more than $2.000 my State makes you jump through hoops. Register your farm,have your scales inspected, take safe gardening classes, water shed inspection..they want you to wash your produce in a chlorine solution..ugh...i understand that crops have to be safe, but these state imposed regulations cost money. I'm staying small for now.
Curtis - Good luck with your show in Memphis. I would love to attend but I can't get away from my day-job for a couple of weeks because we are in a critical design review and I am in the middle of some hot issues on payload battery safety too. Please do come back to the South-East more often! Maybe we can hold a workshop in my log barn on my garden/worm-farm operation one day! I do have a website for the worm-farm side of my operation: www.GreenGregs.comGreg Allison