@@MattBernstein1 It's actually really refreshing. I'm tired of hearing people say grape and sewer slide when talking about serious topics. I'll be signing up for your Patreon soon, keep you in business 🫡
@@bubblegumplastic I cannot believe you cannot even talk about these things in an educational manner anymore without sounding absolutely ridiculous without giving up monetisation and I think often your videos also won't be recommended anymore for people that aren't already subscribed? Sometimes I need a moment to even understand what people mean with these stupid alternative wordings. Constantly hearing "naughty stuff", "pee-pee", "unalive" or "grape" in otherwise serious videos or videos geared towards adults in general makes me feel like I'm losing brain cells in real time.
@@theocean1973 there was recently a holocaust survivor who spent her birthday protesting outside an israeli prison where palestinian political prisoners are being held without trial. She's amazing too
Thank you for not blurring out the names of the accounts who said those horrible things to you. If they can sit behind their screens and say those things to a real person they don’t deserve privacy or respect.
🙄 Well what else is to be expected? All I have to do is see someone with an anarchy jacket, say "praxis" somewhere in our conversation, strike a balance between "ah I see your point about this serious issue" while not being too over-performative and BOOM! They're eating out the palm of my hand
Reminds me of how people use “narcissistic” instead of selfish. There’s actually a difference between the two!! When I was in high school in the mid 2010s people used the word “triggered” to mean offended, when again, those words have every different meaning
Especially with the dire homelessness crisis, unaffordable housing, and the social security clock running out.... yea, having billionaires around should be seen as a systemic failure
Can you explain to me where the TS ‘billionare’ status comes from? Surely you don’t think she has 1 billion dollars in the bank? It’s surely not a speculation on how much her music catalogue would cost if she sold her rights. Edit// It seems that a lot of you can’t actuall read. I’m saying TS doesn’t have $1B in her bank account. It seems the commenters above me think that that’s how net worth is calculated, it’s not. Bye
Just to let people know - maladaptive daydreaming is a real term used in psychology! Not made up in an article. It can happen when people have gone through prolonged abuse, and they learn to retreat into a sort of daydream world in their head to escape a chaotic or dangerous reality and feel safer. It can become very harmful in adulthood though.
thank you for pointing that out. it’s well established in psychology and hearing her say that it was just a phrase an article used was kind of shocking.
bumping this comment. Maladaptive daydreaming is a real disorder by Harvard Health and other mainstream medical organizations. A very googlable concept.
40:32 I was one of those Kpop fans! I was 15 years old and loved a lot of kpop, I wasn’t on twitter but one of my friends told me about it so I made a bunch of fake names and reserved like 20 seats. I cackled when the pictures came out.
yessss pointing out how stan culture has co-opted cancel culture in addition to mirroring the techniques of far right reactionary politics, i really think that's the key to understanding why it's so uniquely toxic
Swifties pretend to be progressive but they're always the first to pull out the slurs the second somebody criticizes their cult leader. I regularly comment about politics and religion and the most abuse I've ever gotten was when I made a lighthearted joke about her.
So, I try to avoid conspiratorial thinking...BUT... It's not out of the realm of possibility that these accounts are actually psyop actors. Popular people's soft sphere of influence have historically been hijacked to sow larger social discord. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I'm also not NOT saying that either.
The hypocrisy is a huge sticking point for me - how do you champion your progressive fav and then act like a bigot in their name?! It’s almost like they think they have permission *because* they’re all the more righteous for repping a Good Person(TM) I see it with ALL of them - Swifties, Monsters, ARMYs, Loona’s Orbits, et al. They say they support women but are misogynists to any perceived enemy, supposedly pro-LGBTQ+ while attacking queer artists and fans, claim to advocate for mental health but tell people to kill themselves. Being openly ableist while crying victim because of an artist’s medical condition! GREATLY appreciated this episode. It’s such a relief hearing people with a platform express so many of the things you’ve been screaming about for ages. Although y’all were a good deal nicer than I would have been. Me I “stan” no one - stan culture is vile, it has taken over fan culture and it’s one of the worst things to happen to society as a whole
I did when I was younger. But then I learned somethings about them, that really brought home the lesson that they're just people, they do good and bad, and don't deserve being treated as if they don't.
It really strikes me as odd that, after Taylor kinda proved you wrong by endorsing Kamala, so many of her fans then came after you, not to say "Ha, you were wrong!" so much as to say, "Ha, now I feel justified in being aggressively, hatefully homophobic towards you!" Really weird stuff.
Also, was it even really proving Matt wrong? At the time it was just a fact and nobody can look into the future. Besides, I think it's likely that she only ended up doing it after she got criticised for hanging out with a Trump supporter. Who knows if she would've done it otherwise. She did the bare minimum to shut people up and for her fans that was enough, as it always is.
@@blackk_rose_Chappell has friends and family who are Trump Supporters, Lana just married a Trump Supporter, hold everyone to the same standard or just simply say you don't like Taylor Swift.
She put herself forward as a feminist and conscientious pop star when it was economically beneficial to so and clearly regretted it ever since. Her endorsing Kamala after being as close to apolitical as a pop star can get and being criticized for it is not exactly a win anyway.
@@iluvfri3nds You really just exposed how hollow and superficial Taylor’s politics are by comparing her to Chapelle Roan who has always been vocal about issues.
personally I didn't mind when Chappell used it, because 1) she's gay too and 2) idk, it was funny. But I do think that twink has become a useless term (if it were ever useful). it can't be a term of empowering self-identifiation like "bear" is for fat gay men-"twink" has a time limit, and sits on a weird intersection between effeminacy and normative beauty, so that people who use it always feel like they're punching up
@@Savanna-e9m I think the way Chapell used it was pretty close to the line, but her followers then started using as a slur to go after gay ppl. And I would say twink is a gay term. Just like d yke would be the lesbian term (gay men shouldn’t use that one).
As a Millenial, who had to grieve the death of "worship" feelings for so many childhood's "idols": MJ, R. Kelly, Bill Cosby, Tim Burton, Tom Cruise, Woody Allen, etc. I cant even imagine entrusting so much of my identity in a politician/celebrity anymore. I learned my lesson the very hard way. 💔🙁
i wrote my sociology degree, content analysis capstone (a undergraduate thesis) on twitter stan culture in spring of 2020. my professors loved it and said that i should publish it if i decided to pursue academia. and if i do i the future i definitely have a lot more content to analyze that’s happened over these past couple of years.
I wish I had the ability to analyze from a proper academic angle. Instead I’m watching the Stan Overton window forever being dragged further and further into crazy
@@soberdollie I think it’s way more reasonable for a kid to exhibit stan behavior because youre kind of stuck in your circumstances and don’t have your own life yet plus you’re raging with hormones so it’s something to escape into or bond with your people over. Once you’re at the edge of high school you should probably be maturing out of those tendencies otherwise it might signal something deeper goin on imo
I personally feel uncomfortable when media is associated with someone’s likeness. I don’t listen to music partly because of this, it feels too personal and makes me uncomfortable. I also only really watch cartoons because it doesn’t feel like I’m watching people. I also avoid UA-cam channels that are super high production or have entire teams behind them bc it gets too weird for me. If it’s just one person posting videos it feels like I can engage with it fairly but when it’s a team of multiple people I usually unsubscribe bc it feels like I’m getting tricked into watching a TV show if that makes sense
Amen. I'm an elder millennial, but I'm quite plugged in to modern life, very online, very invested in the present moment. BUT, stan culture flat out makes me feel like an old man yelling at clouds. I simply find it ridiculous and embarrassing. I'm a huge fan of Ethel Cain and Contrapoints....but any time I see some comment like _"omg slay mother! feed us mother!"_ I feel deep cringe. I suspect we'll look back on that kind of sycophantic fandom 20 years from now and all cringe collectively. I'm a massive fan of the artist Aurora. She was doing a live stream a couple years ago, and read one of the chat comments that said something like "you're a flawless goddess mother! anyone who doesn't love your music isn't human!" And Aurora, to her credit, scrunches up her nose and says, _"That's pretty silly tbh. First, I'm not a mother...having kids? No thanks. Second, I am so not flawless, I'm deeply flawed, I'm very human. Third, I totally get why people might not love my music. There are days when I don't love my own music."_ Like....yes! I love her vibe and her total disinterest in being the cult leader _some_ of her fans want her to be for them. Aurora is just the best. Mother slays harder than.....wait, NO! lol...jk ;P
I’m a swiftie and I’m so sorry you were treated so badly. So many swifties want to pretend that Taylor is above criticism and reproach. Being on stan twitter and not thinking the same as the rest of them is a nightmare.
Same here. Those of us who've been fans for a long time have seen her go through so much undeserved crap, it's tempting to forget that she's still not above valid criticism.
@@idab9958 100% especially recently when she’s been so over exposed and you can’t swing a dead cat (I hate that saying by the way because it’s so gory but it fits here) without hitting someone talking about her so people have resorted to hating her for no good reason again I hope she kinda just disappears from public eye again for about a year or so after the tour ends just to give everyone a break and she really deserves one herself after how hard she’s been working for the past almost 3 years
Those tweets Matt got are absolutely horrid. Those people should not be able to live with themselves. Taylor Swift is not going to give you some of her millions or billions of dollars for being hateful on a lifeless social media platform.
Also the idea that endorsing Kamala is anything but the barest of the bare minimum in terms of publicly acting like you have leftist politics makes this so much more absurd to me. This lukewarm center-right ass candidate and people act like she's gonna save the world, rather than just being a better option in the grand American game of picking your enemy every four years. Christ I hate this goddamn country. We need ranked choice voting so goddamn bad.
The preferential voting system we have in Australia is deeply flawed, but it in my opinion would be leaps and bounds better than the system the US currently has.
@@pippinlatham4857 every voting system is better then US. They have just shit show. The fact that candidate with several million more votes can lose the election is absurd in itself...
Honestly, the idea Swifties were just biting their tongue to your tweet because they had no comeback until Taylor endorsed Kamala sends me. Like it’s not even about politics to them, it’s about saving face.
It was actually because he tried to make her look like a republican when she's clearly not 😭😭 so people called him out and he made a video of 1 hour crying, guess he needed to pay rent
@@electarikip1 taylor swift posed in a pic with a dude that had a swastika sprayed on his shirt, dated a racist, befriends homophobes, NEVER and I MEAN Never spoken out against the white supremacists co-opting her image. If she ain't a republican then pigs must be flying atp.
As a swiftie, my jaw was on the FLOOR when you were reading out those tweets. I am truly so sorry that some people feel the need to be so heinous. I cannot understand how anyone feels justified in saying stuff like that to people. I don't comment on videos often but my heart hurts to know that you have been a victim of such hatred for honestly no reason. As always I loved the episode and was so happy because I had no idea that Amanda was going to be a guest. Earlier this year I read and enjoyed all of her books this was such a pleasant surprise to see her. All of that to say I know I can't take away the terrible things people have said to you, however, I appreciate your content and wish you nothing but the best.
Taylor Swift has always existed in the category of “the Hollywood liberal” (that’s truly a conservative in action and lifestyle). So, she’s cultivated an audience that reflects that-her fans exist in a way where their morality is directly tied to her. It allows them to dehumanize others and even each other in defense of her and Taylor intentionally feeds into. Her highly critical remark against some of fans criticizing her for her silence on Vienna led to a harassment of those fans by other fans. If Taylor is vocal for a liberal cause, so are they. If Taylor is silent on a left-wing cause, “it’s not her job”.
As a big fan of Taylor's music and artistry, I have to distance myself from anything to do with her fandom which I am technically a part of. The amount of hostility is genuinely scary. I don't understand why people think being a fan of an artist is anything more than connecting with their music. You don't know them, plain and simple. You may feel like you do because of their autobiographical (mostly) art, but you don't. Stan culture is so toxic and only drives people away from fandoms and media. I make it a point to criticize her when I feel it's warranted, such as this case. And I do the same with all artists I'm a fan of. Swifties always say "She a human, treat her like one" and then get mad when we do exactly that. Yeah, she's human, meaning she's flawed and fucks up every now and then the way anyone does. And when you have as much power and influence as a pop star billionaire like her, the consequences of those mistakes and fuck-ups are exponentially greater than an average nobody making a mistake. It's the classic "With great power comes great responsibility." Taylor, as a billionaire celebrity, has a lot of power, and therefore a lot of responsibility. Responsibility to call her fans out when they step out of line, responsibility to consistently stand for the causes she claims to and do so in a nuanced way to include ALL people, etc.
You made really good points! One of the things that stan culture implies is that we can't criticize what we love, or that criticism is the same as an attack or insult. But I don't think anything or anyone is above good-faith analysis and criticism. Even on a personal level, if a friend or family member does something harmful or hurtful, you should call them out (when it's important, not constantly). The main thing on both sides is not to dehumanize the other.
I was literally talking about her the other day and how people can't get over this aestethic she has created, to look at her critically. Noone should be a billionaire, ever.
I mean we've seen swifties say they're being oppressed or face discrimination for liking Taylor. So I doubt there's any critical thinking behind them eyes.
In the Uk we had a man murder some children at a Taylor swift themed dance group and it triggered right-wing Islamaphobic terrorism all over the uk. It was a fucking terrifying time to be a minority but then I’d go online and I’d see swifties online talking about how scary it is to be a swiftie in the UK right now 🥺 and Oh my god.
@@nikitatavernitilitvynova when people finally will get to their heads that fact that some people make fun of you or bully you doesn't automatically mean you're oppressed or discriminated? 🙄
@@olakeska7908 the thing is half of what these people do isn't even making fun of them. It's calling out repeated crazy behaviour or criticizing their god like celebrity. I mean someone giving a low rating to a Taylor Swift album is not an insult or bullying. I'm going to say it: I don't like her because I find her music boring and repetitive. I actually like some remixes better than her original stuff because they're from people I follow for a reason might I add. I can guarantee that if I posted my sentiment anywhere public and wide people would tell me I just want money. I jumped in because she's popular. Because I love to hate on everyone. Or nobody asked me. When I didn't make fun of anyone and all I did was make a statement. I don't doubt people will find this and insult me for it when there's nothing wrong with hating music you don't like. And I'm not even being mean about it. As in I'm not calling Taylor an idiot or something. It boggles me that they speak on "being oppressed" but when actual oppression happens to people (me included) we're always brushed to the side and told our feelings don't matter.
If y'all read Amanda's work, please do so critically. Cultish is not well-researched and contains plagiarized, near verbatim text (without quotations or citations) pulled directly from news articles. It also feels a bit too cult-apologist for my taste. If anyone's interested, the r/soundslikeacultpod subreddit has a few posts with examples.
@@ksenlovesbears not that I'm aware of. Earlier this month she posted on her substack that she was no longer going to be writing non-fiction books, though: "I’m sure I’ll return to nonfiction at some point, but truthfully right now, writing this story feels so liberating, I can’t even imagine restricting myself to the reality of facts and interviews and research and knowing there are readers out there who don’t accept or support my non-academic genre of nonfiction."
😂 It's not as weird as it sounds. We call Contrapoints "mother" all the time. Who knows? There may be people that are crazy enough to really think of Taylor as a mother but for others its's just being light-hearted and silly.
I‘m a swiftie and her and some of her fans’ behaviors make that harder and harder to say each day. They rely on activism when it benefits her (e.g. calling out when she is slut shamed or treated badly by misogynistic men) but they completely disregard any parts of activism that would mean her having to give up significant amounts of her power and privilege. Without relying on feminist discourse taylor would still be over. Now that she’s a billionaire destroying the planet defending her right to date racists it all just feels like a huge marketing ploy. Most of the swiftie content creators have become hard to watch because of how they bend over backwards to defend her. Even when she herself admits she was wrong like when she changed the antihero music video or the better than revenge lyrics.
Swifties are genuinely in a dangerous cult, obsessed with their charismatic leader who has them convinced that the adoration goes both ways. All the while, they continue to transfer their earnings to her, no matter the personal cost.
I don't even find Taylor Swift that charismatic and that's what sends me. She's a basic vanilla horse girl who writes safe songs for girls, occasionally puts her massive billionaire brand on the line for causes most people already support, then collects her flowers anew. I get the cult mentality but Swifties are following and acting out for such a boring idol.
I fear that often swifties coming at critics online tends to be gay on gay crime. There is an element of straight women just straight up being homophobic but also queer stan twitter users are so awful to each other. Threads and tumblr are my go-to platforms as a swiftie just cos the temperature is lower lol
I was horrified, yet not surprised at the hate-campaign against Matt from the swifties recently. They are very quick to go to extremes to attack even the most minor non-praise of their favorite billionaire. Over the years I have noticed they particularly like to attack people who are part who are part of marginalized communities, using targeted bigoted slurs and attacks against them. I don’t understand how anybody justifies such hatred and cruelty in their mind. And I’m so sick of fans calling everybody who doesn’t like TS as simply being “misogynistic.” Calling any VALID criticism (or just plainly not enjoying her music. There are billions of people in the world with different tastes than you/the people you surround yourself with) is genuinely harmful to women and women’s equality as a whole. Calling anything you don’t like “misogyny” devalues very real, and prominent misogyny/women’s issues going on everywhere. TS “feminism” is not feminism. I don’t even know if I could cal it “white feminism,” because her brand of feminism only seeks to benefit HER specifically. Full disclosure, I’m only two minutes into the video while typing this. I will probably have more I want to comment after ha I g watched the full video. But before that, I wanted to share a couple of my (many) thoughts on the Swiftie-harassment campaigns.
Yep I am a feminist through and through I dislike her because of the things she's done (Mainly dating a teenager (allegedly) in her twenties) that's not misogyny that's calling someone out for doing something that's not appropriate.
@@Kamy965 my comment decided to be a dick and not post correctly, but the kid was 17, and she broke up with him after he turned 18, she was 22-23 drinking age, he barely knew how to vote and hadn't even moved out yet, that maturity gap is too big, she was two years from a fully developed frontal lobe meanwhile he was seven to eight, she could have easily forced him into illegal things like drinking to early, drugs etc, and because of her significant power she could have easily taken advantage of him and his lack of awareness, boys also tend to be two years behind on maturity for girls so the probability is he also could have been in the mind of a 15-16 year old is icky and concerning, I do not care that "it's only two months" or the "He was 18" bs, the maturity gap wasn't appropriate because he was definitely still in highschool, no college grad should be dating a high schooler. Not only that but she did it twice, one with Connor Kennedy and with harry styles.
Amanda is so smart, omfg. I could listen to her explaining these things forever. It's hard to find serious analysis academically backed on these phenomena such as stan culture. I'm gonna check out her books.
@@speaknowethansversion it’s public knowledge. Not hard to notice she hasn’t done any activism, as far as the public is aware, that doesn’t directly benefit her billionaire dollar corporation. No need to resort to derogatory insults just cause I’m criticizing your fave. Have the day you deserve✌️
I kinda love the🐐emoji thing. It just makes the f-slur so hard to take serious when it's written that way. It's like, oh you're going to dehumanize me by mocking my sexuality with a picture of goat. So ridiculous.
as someone who went from being a one direction fan from ages 12 to 16 to now being a fan of BTS at age 24 i could say that the frontal lobe developing definitely changes the way you engage with fandom and now *I* have a healthier way of being a fan, HOWEVER this is not true for everyone because seeing the way some grown people behave is scary, so many adults that you would think would be reasonable are out here stalking idols, condeming them for smoking, drinking, dating, etc. and just generally not treating them like people AND creating fandom spaces that are so toxic by instigating bullying and doxing over fan wars. Being a fan of something is great and it can create a beautiful community but it seems nowadays it's about only loving and praising your fave without thinking AND attacking anyone who dares have a critical thought.
i sadly (fandom-wise) followed the same path as yours and tbh i feel like online stan culture has reached intolerable levels by 2024 so far. my experience as a directionner then as an army on twt only proved to me that ppl are bound to reach that insane degree of obsession with their fav to the point of turning into a certain monstrous follower that prioritises defending their fav over anything else including being a respectful and sensitive human being. i mean the fact that the fandom itself is split into sane fans and crazy fans who're at each others' throats daily says a lot. i love music immensely but i realised that i no longer have the energy to be part of this mess so i quit armytwt for good and i feel so much more at peace rn. i understand you when you brought up the criticism abt smoking dating drinking etc and i agree with you i believe stan culture is becoming more concerning the more fandoms turn into cults and the more fans start to think they have a saying in their fav's life. i wish we could all just enjoy music without having to terrorise media consumption and turn it into a traumatising experience for both peaceful fans and non-fans who're simply voicing a harmless opinion...
i also feel the same way. i've been in fandom communities since forever and now feel like a better, more-mature fan at 25. my brain has fully developed AND i left stan twt for good. honestly, if you want to have a better experience as a fan, just don't use twitter. while i made some really good friends who are still in contact with me today, i suffered from traumatic experiences. it was just not worth it. it doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of nazis and white supremacists roaming happily on that site
@@chiocoral exactly!! i'm 25 too and i've had my fair share of experiences on twt and as much as i've met so many lovely ppl whom i'm still friends with until today, i think online spaces are way too toxic to ignore when you're part of them. it IS indeed not worth it 😭 it's true that my introverted ass hasn't been able to make friends since i've quit stan twt graduated and started working from home and i miss being part of a community online where we can hype content, have a good laugh, and meet new ppl but it comes at the expense of having to deal with the darker side of that experience especially when you're older and social issues and peace of mind start to matter most (personally speaking) and you witness others you used to identify with act like everything you stand against :(
@@jistardust same thing. tbh, maybe i’m a little biased because of my nostalgia, but i do believe stan twt used to be fun years ago. of course, it wasn’t completely perfect back then either, but i feel that fandoms on that site now act way more cult-y and toxic than ever before. currently, tweets that wish for bts members to get r*ped in the military get 100k likes and you can’t even give constructive criticism to a singer or a song without being at risk of receiving threats and insults. like, how tf has that gotten normalized????
As a queer person myself, I can't help but laugh at the use of the goat emoji. I can't not see that and think of how people use GOAT to refer to certain people as the Greatest Of All Time. So in my head, when I see the goat emoji, in that context, I think it's just like being called some high queer compliment lol (though it's not and is just outright silly for anyone to actually call anyone earnestly)
the photo of her hugging brittany i believe is at the us open, not a chiefs game since travis is next to them and not down on the field lol. i think its completely possible for a normal person to be friendly with their SO's coworker's wife without discussing politics, but as someone who cultivates a huge fanbase of young impressionable people, she might have an added responsibility to choose her public interactions more carefully. that being said i dont think she herself is actually as super left-leaning as a lot of her online fanbase wants her to be so who knows, maybe shes aware and doesnt really care
@kayosgardenSo if I'm left leaning and people like my music so much that my catalog is valued in 1 billion dollars what should I do to still be left-leaning? Do I have to sell it?
@@galderpena5557 you'd promote better taxation so even if you live like the 1% most of your income will be used to fund hospitals, schools, roads, etc. Especially because it would make other billionaires be taxed more! The second best thing is setting up or donating to charities. She could donate about 99% of what she has and still live like a rich person. That's how obscene a billion is. And that's what I'd do personally. I'm upper middle class in my country but I don't just hoard, I try to help other people out with whatever I don't need. If I was a millionaire I'd still live mostly the way I do, because it's what's right. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about TS or anything like that, I'm just agreeing that you can't be both a billionaire and a leftist.
@@MaryamMaqdisi Again, Taylor Swift doesn't have one billion dollars of real money, it's a net worth estimation. She must have a few dozens of millions, though, but I'd like to be reminded of any other artist, politician or whatever that donates 99% of their money or gets asked to do so. AOC or Bernie Sanders are part of the 1% with the most income, are they donating their money or are they not left leaning?
Yes, you can be friendly with your SO's coworker's wife. But random hugging with huge smiles is not "I'm just nice to her, met her few times" as is regular form of being friendly with such a person
People are so unhinged online. An example of this is the hate train that Camila Cabello is getting right now from Sabrina Stans. Do they not know that Sabrina went through this too? So why contribute to someone else’s misery, especially someone you don’t know at all, on behalf of someone you also don’t know. 😭😭 and i love Taylor’s music, but I fear that the unhinged Sabrina Stan’s are probably new ones that came from the eras tour. 💀😩 Edit: I also know there is a lot to criticize abt Camila, but that’s not what these stans are doing
@@MoMo-rx4zr most comments on any Camila thing online is about the racism. when she dropped that feat with lil nas, ALL the comments were about it. you must not read her comments.
Like the music if you want, but htinking she did more than marketing while using emotions to become a billionaire is misunderstanding, how one has to think to accumulate that much wealth. There is no difference to Musk, just different target groups. Sorry to say that, PLEASE read Adorno or think about that just for a sec. A billionaire, that is a good person? How?
Taylor Swift uses the same methods to gather money than your local band with 3k Spotify listeners, the only difference is that instead of having 3k fans she has 300M and a music catalog valued in +$700M. That's how she becomes a billionaire, by the net worth of her music, what the hell does have to do with Elon Musk's scheme?
@@galderpena5557 Please get informed about the Spotify payout system. Because she literally collects from these artists as well through the payout key.
@@galderpena5557it’s not the same as my local band. They can’t independently release a concert film. They can’t create a film that is essentially brand propaganda. They can’t release 8+ variations on an album with different tracks on each edition to entice people to buy more than one. They cannot produce a tour so well resourced it is truly one of the shows of a lifetime. None of these things are anything but good business on a massive scale but if you can’t understand that scale is the operative factor in why her business practices are unethical i beg you do some thinking and reading. Creating that much profit is morally ambiguous at best. Hoarding that much wealth in a world with the most extreme wealth divides in history is morally bankrupt.
@@nolan-zs5mc Of course the magnitude is not the same but the model business is. Touring, streaming, digital and physical records. With the same labels, the same distributors and the same platforms, only with different resources available. Your local band could suddenly explode and have 3 billion streams with the same business model they get 3k streams. For example Chapell Roan is now a millionaire with the same business model she was 'nobody' a few months ago. There is no moral change in her activities.
@@galderpena5557 the majority of her profit is not streams it’s merchandising and touring, which as you note is the music business model with more resources, I felt I had also acknowledged this but if not yes that’s true. Yes Chappell is a millionaire and there is no significant moral change in her activities, she is not hoarding wealth to such a significant degree. Please consider how many millions makes 1 billion, let alone billions plural. How you gain the wealth does not determine how ethical hoarding the wealth is. If Chappell becomes a billionaire consider her morally bankrupt.
I AM SORRY THIS IS OFF TOPIC THAT EYESHADOW IS STUNNING WOW PLEASE HAVE A GREAT DAY (if you somehow actually read this, and maybe share what shades it is, i would be very grateful.... Just wow!)
It’s so interesting it can cause body shame and identity diffusion. Since grade school, I was OBSESSED with certain celebrities while growing up- to the point I would attempt to use ‘magic’ & spells to make me more like that celeb. Now I’m 32 and I’ve grown out of celeb worship completely, only to find I don’t know how to “act” like myself anymore. Seeing my friends who have known me since high school and college, I overthink and feel like I have to act like my ‘old self’ (Who was probably copying Blake Lively or some shit) 😂. After major mental shifts, I’m only now beginning to discover my true personality. It’s so fucked & I realize how exhausting it all was.
Matt, im a farget from mexico, i just want you to know that i wait your video every week or so, not only I admire you but i feel close to you, in a youtube weird parasocial way, please never stop doing this work, love from here ;)
I really, really hate Swiftie culture. I'm basic and I genuinely adore all her music - I've been listening to her since near the beginning when I was a teenager. I would happily call myself a Swiftie if that didn't mean, to so many people, that you rabidly defend everything she does, become exclusionary of anyone who goes against any sort of any internal rules, and thinks it is okay to bully people on the internet who have a different music taste or just a different line in the sand for when they find supporting someone unethical. I knew they couldn’t be good, but I was STUNNED at the absolute vitriol and bigotry spewed in youe examples. Absolutely unacceptable! Stan culture really is something else. I really appreciated this discussion on it!
I enjoyed a lot of her music growing up, especially in high school. Now I feel like I can't say that bc I don't want to be associated with the monstrosity of online Swifties. They're constantly attacking and harassing people. Chappell Roan and her fans have been the latest victims and it's so hard to watch
1:06:58 I was most active of stan twitter when I didn't have that many irl friends. Once all the friend group drama settled and people grew up, I had that space and community in person, so I became less active online. And yeah from experience a solid third of the swiftie stan accounts are queer people, with quite a lot of 13-20 year olds.
15:57 love the anime profile pic of a superhero who stands for equality, justice and always doing the right thing and prioritizing others over himself sending "ill wishes," let's say. These kids will never learn irony.
As someone who has been part of stan culture for 10 years trust me it is brain rot and waste of time I will never get back. Everyone is a effing idiot in those spaces
fuck the swifties, this fandom has really gone to the dogs. Matt, feel free to say whatever you want, your criticism of Taylor was valid, well-articulated and completely true, she's only ever stood up for stuff a handful of times when it concerned or benefitted her, she made a whole ass movie about it, and other than that she stands for nothing.
i (a transgender oklahoman) worked as a valet at the hotel trump & his staff stayed at when he came for the Tulsa rally. one of our slowest nights ever (aside from the frantic secret service detail)
As someone who's grown up within and participated in fandom spaces and has been something of a stan for various figures over the years, can I say that there have been times I have felt wildly out of place in fandom because of the fervent nature of these extreme examples of fans? I'm not sure what it is about my brain--and I am not claiming to be better or more well adjusted than anyone else--but even though I have/have had deeply parasocial relationships, I haven't gotten to the place where I feel like I really ever know the people I'm a fan of. Maybe it's the social anxiety or depression (because I certainly don't have a strong irl community), but I would really never actually want to meet the people I've been a fan of. Further, I've been sad when someone has said something critical of those people, but I've never attacked someone for it online or, really, gotten that upset? I don't know how common it is in the fandom space, really, because I think the type of stan culture you're talking about is the vocal minority, but it has made me feel broken in the past. Like, why aren't I that invested? Am I not a big enough fan? Just something to chew on, I guess 🤷🏻♂️
this is cathartic to listen to after my experience with stans today I kinda already said this on the instagram post, but a I was harassed and stalked by Melanie Martinez fans earlier today at the time of writing this. they accused me of horrid shit, victim blamed, spew Zionist, anti-palestine and pink washing rhetoric. and even posted my "adult" art from a separate account on a completely different platform in the replies against my wishes as a "gotcha" moment, while putting themselves, myself, and other people in harm's way (one of the stans is a minor, and I've specifically stated that people under 18 are NOT allowed on my account, yet they continued anyways) all of that, because I said "smellanie Fartinez"...A damn fart joke. I also saw them make fun of people's appearances and weaponize people's identities against them because the people in question support victims of sa or stand against a gen*cide it felt dehumanizing and demoralizing. having my own art used against me, all because I draw "adult" art sometimes (as if "adult" artists aren't human beings with emotions and feelings as well). having them call me awful things, and them calling me a p*do because I have a visibly trans character. and them putting me in a paranoid state, disregarding my boundaries and rule's I've set to keep not only myself and others safe. all of that while they chose to worship an "alleged" r*pist. it still makes me sick now, but thank you for making this video. it means a lot
Ehem. I know that Asian stan culture is a niche topic here, but Swifties r not alone in it. It's like. Almost standard K-pop idol stan behaviour. (And J-pop. And actors. And I've heard similar stuff from Thai BL actors, and I didn't even know that it was a thing.) So what I'm trying to say is stan culture is crazy everywhere you can find it, although it has regional differences and levels of toxicity. (And I kinda laugh at 'crazy swifties staff, cuz like. Gurl, u don't even know how to stream a clip most efficiently, c'mon)
I really don't get why they are saying stan culture is uniquely American. Anyone who has taken a gander at what goes on in Japan and South Korea knows that American stans are tame in comparison to the idol otakus.
I think about this all the time! no matter which type of fandom I look to for research (music, books, tv shows, movies, sports, politics), unhealthy stan behavior runs deep. I usually see the hate get thrown to fandoms that are usually made of up majority women, which is another conversation in itself, but it truly is everywhere and is a problem everywhere. and you mentioning the Thai bl actors is one I found recently too, lol! I kinda figured it’d be there too which is why I looked, but I was curious about how the culture went about if it’s only a short series and some press tours. turns out it gets just as intense in those fandoms as everywhere else.
@@inplainsi oh yea, we need to talk about why fandoms that are presumably more woman-oriented are hated so much more than man-oriented! but its funny how mostly harmless fan behaviour is demonised, while other is capitalised (and i feel like it also is a problem with unhealthy stan behaviour) ugh, hope my thought aren't too chaotic.
@@Moonlitwatersofaqua I wouldn’t say tame in comparison since it can go from innocent to violent anywhere, but it may just be a lack of knowledge or choice to speak on other cultures and their fandom culture there for this episode. I agree that it isn’t uniquely American though! my best guess is calling it “uniquely American” (which I didn’t catch, I could’ve just missed it) could have just been a mindless comment since the focus on this episode was American stan culture. I feel you though! reading about stories all over the globe makes me realize that fans will get dangerous and quick😭.
@@rokseyha1343 your thoughts aren’t chaotic at all! that makes sense as well. while there are some healthy fan behaviors who simply like to buy the things the subject puts out and support them, a lot of money comes from keeping people engaged and it’s easiest to do that with people ready to do anything for a step closer to you or whatever their goal is. this works for fans of a subject of any kind, it’s dangerous and a slippery slope though, especially with politicians but also with fans of an artist. good thoughts!
omg so interesting i have so many thoughts! when i first joined stan twitter i had just begun questioning my sexuality and it gave me a safe space where i could do that with other people going through the same thing. i was also very lonely because i was either working or doing schoolwork. not only did being stan give me a community, it also gave me a cause to believe in
Crazy fan bases have always been around but I almost feel like the Swifties were the ones who normalized it. The Taylor Swift vs. Scooter Braun documentary actually talks about how it started. When the masters business deal didn't really go her way, she literally told her fan base to try to convince Scooter to change his mind. When his family started getting death threats, he asked Taylor to tell her fan base to stop but she kept silent. The whole thing is weird because she's a grown wealthy woman with power asking her fan base of people much younger than her for help with a business deal? Her and her team are very well aware of how her fan base is but they keep silent because they're the reason why she's so wealthy.
Stans don't seem to understand that they poison their own community with abusive rhetoric. Any community will inevitably have conflict, and it's our duty to learn healthy communication in order to engage with it. I've removed myself from fandoms that I genuinely loved, and it sucks, because it could have been something great had we been more focused on healthy expression.
i believe i was that someone who wrote to you (analysing may help with the pain) and it makes me so happy to know you actully saw that in a moment where i believe reading comments is not fun at all. lots of love
I know it’s weird due to the nature of them, but your videos comfort me. I use UA-cam videos to quiet my PTSD thoughts/flashbacks as I go throughout my day and I often use your videos. The only Patreon I have ever bought and worth it !!
I continue to be baffled by people who say they preach 'love' and 'equity' (because their idol pushes it), who then turn around and spread hate. I shouldn't be surprised though, it's the modus operandi of the entire Christian faith. Yeah, Jesus did say to be kind, but our modern interpretation is only be kind to certain people. HUH?!
I’m a huge, HUGE Michael Jackson fan, and Thriller is my favorite anything ever, but I’ve always disagreed with the way other fans jump down the throats of people who don’t like him. At the end of the day, I don’t know Michael as a person just because I enjoy his art, so I feel no obligation to defend him as an innocent little angel who’s never done anything wrong.
I feel like this whole discussion shouldn't have been "is Taylor swift a republican?" (because she clearly isn't, and has stated so many times) but "can you be left/democrat and be friends with someone who wants certain people to not have rights?" or "are you truly an ally, if you're allying with people who hate us?" The answer is no😂 But she's also a billionaire and uses sweatshops for her merch, so she clearly doesn't care about some people's rights.
I empathize with being viciously attacked on social media, and like Amanda said, the fight or flight response sent me into a huge dysautonomia and mast cell flare. I had continuous panic attacks for the next two months. I’m so sorry you were subjected to this needless vitriol.
Taylor swift is the epitome of mediocrity and it BAFFLES me that people are as rabid about defending her as they are. And she does the bare minimum and gets lauded for it.
the toxicity of so much stan culture is what drove me further from the swiftie fandom. i love her music, but everyone in the public eye is kinda fair game to critique to some extent. there's genuine criticism that SHOULD be made about her. she shouldn't be single-handedly driving global warming more in a year than the average person would in their lifetime (idk the real stats but my sentiment stands). she has been the victim of a lot of misogyny-fueled vitriol, but that doesn't excuse her other shit. these two things can be true at once. she's not immune to all negative feedback just for being a great songwriter. that's not how life works, let alone public life.
I stand with you on this. Being in some of the swiftie group chats and servers REALLY made some of my worst moments the past 4 years. The type of harassment I have gotten INTRA-FANDOM for criticizing Taylor has opened my eyes on how much of a religion it has become. I could say “Taylor should change her hair up a little for TS12” and I would get dragged for objectifying her and being sexist. I really wonder if it’s somehow related to the 2016 scandal and how that was approached by the swifties and how they were affected there or if they feel like Taylor needs protection (which she literally doesn’t. She couldn’t care). It’s just that Taylor isn’t a saint or a goddess that needs worshiping. Even she’s stressed on how it can feel a bit weird when people act this way and has even written SONGS about not being the “guiding light”. She’s a human being with complex emotions, beliefs and other issues that shape her into the person she is. You cannot idolize a person like that and it’s definitely made it way less desirable to be in a fandom where you’re getting slurred and screamed at all the time Also FYI, Taylor isn’t really contributing an insane amount as much as rumors say. Statistically, Beyoncé and JayZ along with other really big artists have 10x more emission damage than her. Just saying in case swifties come drag you in the future 😭
i've moved away from engaging with it, but this is incredibly prevalent behavior in online fandom of fictional media as well. that wasn't implied otherwise here, just mentioning it because of the horrors i've seen and still do see when the blacklists and blocking accounts fail and it inevitably ends up in front of me. i have a side twitter i just use to view fanart and other fanworks and the absolute horrific vitriol i see while looking through those posts is insane and unhinged in the wildest ways. a horribly prevalent thing going on currently is minors pretending to be adults to interact with adult accounts, find 18+ fanworks, then send those to other minors to rally harassment onto the creators of said works despite the creators intentionally blocking minors and trying to have an adults only space. the vocabulary i see when scrolling through these fandoms really reflects purity culture and extremely conservative values under the guise of social justice, and these communities co-opt cancel culture as well to hate and fearmonger. i see a lot of verbage accusing artists and the like to be groomers in a similar way the alt-right do. when i was younger and a few years before this type of fandom really exploded, i would try to diffuse situations or argue back how the weird purity culture and obsessiveness over shipping fictional characters to the point of death threats was (obviously) ridiculous, but eventually i gave up and deleted the accounts i would interact with fandom on. it was too much stress to try to be positive when so much negativity and vitriol is shoved in your face over stuff so inconsequential. especially now, a lot of it feels like idolatry and turning ship wars into political movements.
Literally I wanted TS to show her support for Harris because I know it will impact people, but I kept asking my friends "When did her fanbase turn into a cult because I'm not voting for whoever my favorite singer tells me to!"
I'd say in every group you probably have a percentage of unhinged, abusive ppl. The percentage may vary from group to group, but every group will have them..and in a group which contains millions having a few thousands willing to push each other to higher and higher heights of abuse is sadly...predictable!
"Never complain, never explain" has worked pretty well for Trixie Mattel, who famously (within the drag community) stays completely away from addressing stupid controversies. Every time a queen gets herself into more trouble by posting defensive responses to situations, we compare them to how Trixie handles similar situations. It won't stop anti-drag people from harrassing her, but it keeps drag fans moving on pretty quickly.
There's no way Taylor Swift doesn't know about her fans' behavior. She knows she's the only person who has a shot at getting them to fial it down, but she doesn't because they're bringing her money and fame. I'd even go so far as to say her encouraging parasocial attachment so that they'll stay loyal fans is what got us into this mess to begin with. Honestly, what a joke.
Not Matt dropping the hard f within the first minute. We've truly given up on monetization. We stan.
GIVEN UP
@@MattBernstein1 LADIES, PATREON!!!
"hard f" 😭😭
@@MattBernstein1 It's actually really refreshing. I'm tired of hearing people say grape and sewer slide when talking about serious topics. I'll be signing up for your Patreon soon, keep you in business 🫡
@@bubblegumplastic I cannot believe you cannot even talk about these things in an educational manner anymore without sounding absolutely ridiculous without giving up monetisation and I think often your videos also won't be recommended anymore for people that aren't already subscribed? Sometimes I need a moment to even understand what people mean with these stupid alternative wordings. Constantly hearing "naughty stuff", "pee-pee", "unalive" or "grape" in otherwise serious videos or videos geared towards adults in general makes me feel like I'm losing brain cells in real time.
The Swiftie who refused to join the IDF is so iconic
We have no choice but to stan that stan
I miss them
It was actually the first time I learned about how bad the IDF was when that tweet blew up😂
I often think of that Swiftie to remind myself that a significant minority of Israelis are actually on the right side of history.
@@theocean1973 there was recently a holocaust survivor who spent her birthday protesting outside an israeli prison where palestinian political prisoners are being held without trial. She's amazing too
Thank you for not blurring out the names of the accounts who said those horrible things to you. If they can sit behind their screens and say those things to a real person they don’t deserve privacy or respect.
And he deserved every single insult. I watched this all in real time, this hater clown started it and deserved EVERY. SINGLE. WORD.
actually, everything they said was true!! hope this helps!!
@@svetlanasolosgerard would hate ur guts
@@svetlanasolosew what is wrong with you? 🤢
@@svetlanasolos gerard way will never want you!!! hope this helps!!!
"The bastardisation of therapy-speak" is such a hilariously true observation.
🙄 Well what else is to be expected? All I have to do is see someone with an anarchy jacket, say "praxis" somewhere in our conversation, strike a balance between "ah I see your point about this serious issue" while not being too over-performative and BOOM! They're eating out the palm of my hand
@@Nverdiswhat the fuck are you talking about
Reminds me of how people use “narcissistic” instead of selfish. There’s actually a difference between the two!! When I was in high school in the mid 2010s people used the word “triggered” to mean offended, when again, those words have every different meaning
@@earthempress3378Sarah Z did a great video on this recently. Think it's called Narcissism Scare. Would recommend.
Billionaires should not exist, and yes, I am including a pop star who has made a few songs I enjoy.
Especially with the dire homelessness crisis, unaffordable housing, and the social security clock running out.... yea, having billionaires around should be seen as a systemic failure
@@PirateZ1unfortunately it’s a feature not a bug. capitalism is just working exactly the way it’s intended to
I have been a huge fan of Taylor's music for over a decade and I agree.
brave
Can you explain to me where the TS ‘billionare’ status comes from?
Surely you don’t think she has 1 billion dollars in the bank?
It’s surely not a speculation on how much her music catalogue would cost if she sold her rights.
Edit//
It seems that a lot of you can’t actuall read. I’m saying TS doesn’t have $1B in her bank account. It seems the commenters above me think that that’s how net worth is calculated, it’s not. Bye
I like how Swiftie comments look always like a 4chan board from 2007. Truly the kindest people on the internet.
Wrdgaf
@@crimsonsnow968 we can tell
@crimsonsnow968 then why speak. Be quiet challenge!
@@crimsonsnow968yrdgaft
@@crimsonsnow968 yea that's why no one likes you weirdos
Just to let people know - maladaptive daydreaming is a real term used in psychology! Not made up in an article. It can happen when people have gone through prolonged abuse, and they learn to retreat into a sort of daydream world in their head to escape a chaotic or dangerous reality and feel safer. It can become very harmful in adulthood though.
thank you for pointing that out. it’s well established in psychology and hearing her say that it was just a phrase an article used was kind of shocking.
Thanks, now I know what I was doing in childhood.
bumping this comment. Maladaptive daydreaming is a real disorder by Harvard Health and other mainstream medical organizations. A very googlable concept.
@@stars_will_fallIt is not very “well established”. The term is only a couple decades old and has limited research.
well I’m cooked then
40:32 I was one of those Kpop fans! I was 15 years old and loved a lot of kpop, I wasn’t on twitter but one of my friends told me about it so I made a bunch of fake names and reserved like 20 seats. I cackled when the pictures came out.
HELL YEAH 🔥🔥🔥🔥
2020 K-pop fandom feels like a bygone era from 2020.4 K-pop fandom (and it was far from perfect four years ago)
We thank you for your service and activism! Keep it up! 😃
Colossal W for you. Tell your children and grandchildren!
Iconic
yessss pointing out how stan culture has co-opted cancel culture in addition to mirroring the techniques of far right reactionary politics, i really think that's the key to understanding why it's so uniquely toxic
No one should care about ANY celebrity enough to call people slurs over them. All that over a celebrity THEY DONT EVEN KNOW. Absolutely deranged.
Fr like Taylor swift wouldn’t even blink if they passed away and they’re defending her like she’s Jesus
Swifties pretend to be progressive but they're always the first to pull out the slurs the second somebody criticizes their cult leader. I regularly comment about politics and religion and the most abuse I've ever gotten was when I made a lighthearted joke about her.
So, I try to avoid conspiratorial thinking...BUT...
It's not out of the realm of possibility that these accounts are actually psyop actors. Popular people's soft sphere of influence have historically been hijacked to sow larger social discord. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I'm also not NOT saying that either.
Now this just prove that the hater start it FIRST everytime. And it's not JUST A JOKE believe me.
@@RhysJudicata You already beckoned one of them. Lol. Funny how they work like Pokémon
It's not swifties, it's all of stan twt
@@NghiaNguyen-js1wuYes, she’s the victim. Always and forever. Protect the billionaire pop star who writes middle school poetry.
The hypocrisy is a huge sticking point for me - how do you champion your progressive fav and then act like a bigot in their name?! It’s almost like they think they have permission *because* they’re all the more righteous for repping a Good Person(TM)
I see it with ALL of them - Swifties, Monsters, ARMYs, Loona’s Orbits, et al. They say they support women but are misogynists to any perceived enemy, supposedly pro-LGBTQ+ while attacking queer artists and fans, claim to advocate for mental health but tell people to kill themselves. Being openly ableist while crying victim because of an artist’s medical condition!
GREATLY appreciated this episode. It’s such a relief hearing people with a platform express so many of the things you’ve been screaming about for ages. Although y’all were a good deal nicer than I would have been.
Me I “stan” no one - stan culture is vile, it has taken over fan culture and it’s one of the worst things to happen to society as a whole
I agree fully
Hear, hear. Stan culture is a pathology.
I did when I was younger. But then I learned somethings about them, that really brought home the lesson that they're just people, they do good and bad, and don't deserve being treated as if they don't.
It really strikes me as odd that, after Taylor kinda proved you wrong by endorsing Kamala, so many of her fans then came after you, not to say "Ha, you were wrong!" so much as to say, "Ha, now I feel justified in being aggressively, hatefully homophobic towards you!" Really weird stuff.
Also, was it even really proving Matt wrong? At the time it was just a fact and nobody can look into the future. Besides, I think it's likely that she only ended up doing it after she got criticised for hanging out with a Trump supporter. Who knows if she would've done it otherwise. She did the bare minimum to shut people up and for her fans that was enough, as it always is.
@@blackk_rose_Chappell has friends and family who are Trump Supporters, Lana just married a Trump Supporter, hold everyone to the same standard or just simply say you don't like Taylor Swift.
@@iluvfri3ndsThey’re also stupid from a different direction.
She put herself forward as a feminist and conscientious pop star when it was economically beneficial to so and clearly regretted it ever since. Her endorsing Kamala after being as close to apolitical as a pop star can get and being criticized for it is not exactly a win anyway.
@@iluvfri3nds You really just exposed how hollow and superficial Taylor’s politics are by comparing her to Chapelle Roan who has always been vocal about issues.
are we seeing how women are using *twink* as a replacement for the f slur???
Yup, honestly the first time I saw it is when Chapell Roan (an idol to a cult similar to Swift), used it on a late night show.
personally I didn't mind when Chappell used it, because 1) she's gay too and 2) idk, it was funny. But I do think that twink has become a useless term (if it were ever useful). it can't be a term of empowering self-identifiation like "bear" is for fat gay men-"twink" has a time limit, and sits on a weird intersection between effeminacy and normative beauty, so that people who use it always feel like they're punching up
@@NeonJ1 Chappell used it as a pejorative?
@@Savanna-e9m I think the way Chapell used it was pretty close to the line, but her followers then started using as a slur to go after gay ppl. And I would say twink is a gay term. Just like d yke would be the lesbian term (gay men shouldn’t use that one).
@@Savanna-e9mnot at all
As a Millenial, who had to grieve the death of "worship" feelings for so many childhood's "idols": MJ, R. Kelly, Bill Cosby, Tim Burton, Tom Cruise, Woody Allen, etc. I cant even imagine entrusting so much of my identity in a politician/celebrity anymore. I learned my lesson the very hard way.
💔🙁
i wrote my sociology degree, content analysis capstone (a undergraduate thesis) on twitter stan culture in spring of 2020. my professors loved it and said that i should publish it if i decided to pursue academia. and if i do i the future i definitely have a lot more content to analyze that’s happened over these past couple of years.
I wish I had the ability to analyze from a proper academic angle. Instead I’m watching the Stan Overton window forever being dragged further and further into crazy
I would love to have been able to read your thesis something about that topic really scratches my brain.
if you ever publish it, please let us read!
Why can't people just enjoy media normally... I really do not understand stan culture at all
i feel the same way now at 21, but my teen years were spent 'stanning' ppl on twitter lol. i was never toxic tho, just a friendless kid with an escape
@@soberdollie I think it’s way more reasonable for a kid to exhibit stan behavior because youre kind of stuck in your circumstances and don’t have your own life yet plus you’re raging with hormones so it’s something to escape into or bond with your people over. Once you’re at the edge of high school you should probably be maturing out of those tendencies otherwise it might signal something deeper goin on imo
It's the classic needing to belong to mob mentality pipeline
I personally feel uncomfortable when media is associated with someone’s likeness. I don’t listen to music partly because of this, it feels too personal and makes me uncomfortable. I also only really watch cartoons because it doesn’t feel like I’m watching people. I also avoid UA-cam channels that are super high production or have entire teams behind them bc it gets too weird for me. If it’s just one person posting videos it feels like I can engage with it fairly but when it’s a team of multiple people I usually unsubscribe bc it feels like I’m getting tricked into watching a TV show if that makes sense
Amen. I'm an elder millennial, but I'm quite plugged in to modern life, very online, very invested in the present moment. BUT, stan culture flat out makes me feel like an old man yelling at clouds. I simply find it ridiculous and embarrassing. I'm a huge fan of Ethel Cain and Contrapoints....but any time I see some comment like _"omg slay mother! feed us mother!"_ I feel deep cringe. I suspect we'll look back on that kind of sycophantic fandom 20 years from now and all cringe collectively.
I'm a massive fan of the artist Aurora. She was doing a live stream a couple years ago, and read one of the chat comments that said something like "you're a flawless goddess mother! anyone who doesn't love your music isn't human!" And Aurora, to her credit, scrunches up her nose and says, _"That's pretty silly tbh. First, I'm not a mother...having kids? No thanks. Second, I am so not flawless, I'm deeply flawed, I'm very human. Third, I totally get why people might not love my music. There are days when I don't love my own music."_
Like....yes! I love her vibe and her total disinterest in being the cult leader _some_ of her fans want her to be for them. Aurora is just the best. Mother slays harder than.....wait, NO! lol...jk ;P
I’m a swiftie and I’m so sorry you were treated so badly. So many swifties want to pretend that Taylor is above criticism and reproach. Being on stan twitter and not thinking the same as the rest of them is a nightmare.
Cults of personality are never healthy. Good on you for exercising critical thinking.
Hopefully you see the light someday
Same I learned to un stan brain rot myself by watching the swiftologist it’s so refreshing to have clear minded people like him
Same here. Those of us who've been fans for a long time have seen her go through so much undeserved crap, it's tempting to forget that she's still not above valid criticism.
@@idab9958 100% especially recently when she’s been so over exposed and you can’t swing a dead cat (I hate that saying by the way because it’s so gory but it fits here) without hitting someone talking about her so people have resorted to hating her for no good reason again I hope she kinda just disappears from public eye again for about a year or so after the tour ends just to give everyone a break and she really deserves one herself after how hard she’s been working for the past almost 3 years
Those tweets Matt got are absolutely horrid. Those people should not be able to live with themselves. Taylor Swift is not going to give you some of her millions or billions of dollars for being hateful on a lifeless social media platform.
Also the idea that endorsing Kamala is anything but the barest of the bare minimum in terms of publicly acting like you have leftist politics makes this so much more absurd to me. This lukewarm center-right ass candidate and people act like she's gonna save the world, rather than just being a better option in the grand American game of picking your enemy every four years. Christ I hate this goddamn country. We need ranked choice voting so goddamn bad.
The preferential voting system we have in Australia is deeply flawed, but it in my opinion would be leaps and bounds better than the system the US currently has.
@@pippinlatham4857 every voting system is better then US. They have just shit show. The fact that candidate with several million more votes can lose the election is absurd in itself...
Honestly, the idea Swifties were just biting their tongue to your tweet because they had no comeback until Taylor endorsed Kamala sends me. Like it’s not even about politics to them, it’s about saving face.
It was actually because he tried to make her look like a republican when she's clearly not 😭😭 so people called him out and he made a video of 1 hour crying, guess he needed to pay rent
@@electarikip1 taylor swift posed in a pic with a dude that had a swastika sprayed on his shirt, dated a racist, befriends homophobes, NEVER and I MEAN Never spoken out against the white supremacists co-opting her image. If she ain't a republican then pigs must be flying atp.
@@electarikip1 telling someone to die of aids and calling them slurs is not "calling" out, though
@@feleepe notice how he only showed a few disrespectful tweets not the hundreds calling him out respectfully 😭😭
@@electarikip1 when Taylor is buddy buddy with a Trump supporter, that warrants some public scepticism.
As a swiftie, my jaw was on the FLOOR when you were reading out those tweets. I am truly so sorry that some people feel the need to be so heinous. I cannot understand how anyone feels justified in saying stuff like that to people. I don't comment on videos often but my heart hurts to know that you have been a victim of such hatred for honestly no reason.
As always I loved the episode and was so happy because I had no idea that Amanda was going to be a guest. Earlier this year I read and enjoyed all of her books this was such a pleasant surprise to see her.
All of that to say I know I can't take away the terrible things people have said to you, however, I appreciate your content and wish you nothing but the best.
Taylor Swift has always existed in the category of “the Hollywood liberal” (that’s truly a conservative in action and lifestyle). So, she’s cultivated an audience that reflects that-her fans exist in a way where their morality is directly tied to her. It allows them to dehumanize others and even each other in defense of her and Taylor intentionally feeds into. Her highly critical remark against some of fans criticizing her for her silence on Vienna led to a harassment of those fans by other fans. If Taylor is vocal for a liberal cause, so are they. If Taylor is silent on a left-wing cause, “it’s not her job”.
you need to stfu and get off of reddit!!
Covert narcissism. Glazed donuts filled with poison, that's the feeling I've kinda always gotten
@@daypeanut4406 ooooh, nice turn of phrase
@@daypeanut4406Glazed donuts aren’t filled
very well put!
As a big fan of Taylor's music and artistry, I have to distance myself from anything to do with her fandom which I am technically a part of. The amount of hostility is genuinely scary. I don't understand why people think being a fan of an artist is anything more than connecting with their music. You don't know them, plain and simple. You may feel like you do because of their autobiographical (mostly) art, but you don't. Stan culture is so toxic and only drives people away from fandoms and media. I make it a point to criticize her when I feel it's warranted, such as this case. And I do the same with all artists I'm a fan of. Swifties always say "She a human, treat her like one" and then get mad when we do exactly that. Yeah, she's human, meaning she's flawed and fucks up every now and then the way anyone does. And when you have as much power and influence as a pop star billionaire like her, the consequences of those mistakes and fuck-ups are exponentially greater than an average nobody making a mistake. It's the classic "With great power comes great responsibility." Taylor, as a billionaire celebrity, has a lot of power, and therefore a lot of responsibility. Responsibility to call her fans out when they step out of line, responsibility to consistently stand for the causes she claims to and do so in a nuanced way to include ALL people, etc.
You made really good points! One of the things that stan culture implies is that we can't criticize what we love, or that criticism is the same as an attack or insult. But I don't think anything or anyone is above good-faith analysis and criticism. Even on a personal level, if a friend or family member does something harmful or hurtful, you should call them out (when it's important, not constantly). The main thing on both sides is not to dehumanize the other.
PREACH
The eye makeup is breath taking today
my favorite Stan Twitter event is the bts account that deactivated bc they started taking their meds again
I was literally talking about her the other day and how people can't get over this aestethic she has created, to look at her critically. Noone should be a billionaire, ever.
I mean we've seen swifties say they're being oppressed or face discrimination for liking Taylor. So I doubt there's any critical thinking behind them eyes.
In the Uk we had a man murder some children at a Taylor swift themed dance group and it triggered right-wing Islamaphobic terrorism all over the uk. It was a fucking terrifying time to be a minority but then I’d go online and I’d see swifties online talking about how scary it is to be a swiftie in the UK right now 🥺 and Oh my god.
@@nikitatavernitilitvynova Swifties are the most oppressed minority with the least representation in congress and senate (meme)
@@nikitatavernitilitvynova when people finally will get to their heads that fact that some people make fun of you or bully you doesn't automatically mean you're oppressed or discriminated? 🙄
@@olakeska7908 the thing is half of what these people do isn't even making fun of them. It's calling out repeated crazy behaviour or criticizing their god like celebrity. I mean someone giving a low rating to a Taylor Swift album is not an insult or bullying. I'm going to say it: I don't like her because I find her music boring and repetitive. I actually like some remixes better than her original stuff because they're from people I follow for a reason might I add. I can guarantee that if I posted my sentiment anywhere public and wide people would tell me I just want money. I jumped in because she's popular. Because I love to hate on everyone. Or nobody asked me. When I didn't make fun of anyone and all I did was make a statement. I don't doubt people will find this and insult me for it when there's nothing wrong with hating music you don't like. And I'm not even being mean about it. As in I'm not calling Taylor an idiot or something. It boggles me that they speak on "being oppressed" but when actual oppression happens to people (me included) we're always brushed to the side and told our feelings don't matter.
he’s so gay he doesnt really his name is patrick mahomes lol, thank you editing matt haha
Not Austin mahone getting dragged
He copped a stray 😂
If y'all read Amanda's work, please do so critically. Cultish is not well-researched and contains plagiarized, near verbatim text (without quotations or citations) pulled directly from news articles. It also feels a bit too cult-apologist for my taste.
If anyone's interested, the r/soundslikeacultpod subreddit has a few posts with examples.
Thank you for commenting ! I went and looked at the Reddit thread and read a review of “cultish.” Truly upsetting
Has amanda addressed all of this? I’ve never heard of her until this ep & I’m curious about her books for sure!
Damn I was really excited about her work, that's disappointing
Oh no
@@ksenlovesbears not that I'm aware of. Earlier this month she posted on her substack that she was no longer going to be writing non-fiction books, though: "I’m sure I’ll return to nonfiction at some point, but truthfully right now, writing this story feels so liberating, I can’t even imagine restricting myself to the reality of facts and interviews and research and knowing there are readers out there who don’t accept or support my non-academic genre of nonfiction."
I must hang out on the wrong side of the internet, because I have never once seen a comment calling Taylor Swift 'mother'.....
I have, I have seen some weird shit in that fandom, I'm not even a part of it, I'm huddling in the corner with my hozier, and AURORA
ikr? Lady Gaga is Mother Monster, taylor needs to get her own thing lol
calling someone "mother" is gay slang i thought we knew this
😂 It's not as weird as it sounds. We call Contrapoints "mother" all the time. Who knows? There may be people that are crazy enough to really think of Taylor as a mother but for others its's just being light-hearted and silly.
I‘m a swiftie and her and some of her fans’ behaviors make that harder and harder to say each day. They rely on activism when it benefits her (e.g. calling out when she is slut shamed or treated badly by misogynistic men) but they completely disregard any parts of activism that would mean her having to give up significant amounts of her power and privilege. Without relying on feminist discourse taylor would still be over. Now that she’s a billionaire destroying the planet defending her right to date racists it all just feels like a huge marketing ploy. Most of the swiftie content creators have become hard to watch because of how they bend over backwards to defend her. Even when she herself admits she was wrong like when she changed the antihero music video or the better than revenge lyrics.
Swifties are genuinely in a dangerous cult, obsessed with their charismatic leader who has them convinced that the adoration goes both ways. All the while, they continue to transfer their earnings to her, no matter the personal cost.
I don't even find Taylor Swift that charismatic and that's what sends me. She's a basic vanilla horse girl who writes safe songs for girls, occasionally puts her massive billionaire brand on the line for causes most people already support, then collects her flowers anew. I get the cult mentality but Swifties are following and acting out for such a boring idol.
I fear that often swifties coming at critics online tends to be gay on gay crime. There is an element of straight women just straight up being homophobic but also queer stan twitter users are so awful to each other. Threads and tumblr are my go-to platforms as a swiftie just cos the temperature is lower lol
I might start going back to swiftie tumblr. I have given up completely on discord servers, Reddit pages, Twitter threads, Instagram groups…etc 😭
Mixing up Austin and Patrick mahones is ICONIC 😂😂
I was horrified, yet not surprised at the hate-campaign against Matt from the swifties recently. They are very quick to go to extremes to attack even the most minor non-praise of their favorite billionaire. Over the years I have noticed they particularly like to attack people who are part who are part of marginalized communities, using targeted bigoted slurs and attacks against them. I don’t understand how anybody justifies such hatred and cruelty in their mind.
And I’m so sick of fans calling everybody who doesn’t like TS as simply being “misogynistic.” Calling any VALID criticism (or just plainly not enjoying her music. There are billions of people in the world with different tastes than you/the people you surround yourself with) is genuinely harmful to women and women’s equality as a whole. Calling anything you don’t like “misogyny” devalues very real, and prominent misogyny/women’s issues going on everywhere. TS “feminism” is not feminism. I don’t even know if I could cal it “white feminism,” because her brand of feminism only seeks to benefit HER specifically.
Full disclosure, I’m only two minutes into the video while typing this. I will probably have more I want to comment after ha I g watched the full video. But before that, I wanted to share a couple of my (many) thoughts on the Swiftie-harassment campaigns.
Yep I am a feminist through and through I dislike her because of the things she's done (Mainly dating a teenager (allegedly) in her twenties) that's not misogyny that's calling someone out for doing something that's not appropriate.
@@LucianSorelsGardenOfAzaleas Dating 18 year old for 2 months? okay...
@@Kamy965 my comment decided to be a dick and not post correctly, but the kid was 17, and she broke up with him after he turned 18, she was 22-23 drinking age, he barely knew how to vote and hadn't even moved out yet, that maturity gap is too big, she was two years from a fully developed frontal lobe meanwhile he was seven to eight, she could have easily forced him into illegal things like drinking to early, drugs etc, and because of her significant power she could have easily taken advantage of him and his lack of awareness, boys also tend to be two years behind on maturity for girls so the probability is he also could have been in the mind of a 15-16 year old is icky and concerning, I do not care that "it's only two months" or the "He was 18" bs, the maturity gap wasn't appropriate because he was definitely still in highschool, no college grad should be dating a high schooler.
Not only that but she did it twice, one with Connor Kennedy and with harry styles.
@@LucianSorelsGardenOfAzaleas I think you over doing too much especially when they are on good terms to this day
Amanda is so smart, omfg. I could listen to her explaining these things forever.
It's hard to find serious analysis academically backed on these phenomena such as stan culture. I'm gonna check out her books.
She’s a really good writer and very funny imo
Taylor Swift doesn’t step up to the plate for marginalized people at all, unless it benefits herself and her billion dollar brand. Let’s be fr here😏
are you this slow? do you know her personally?
@@speaknowethansversion it’s public knowledge. Not hard to notice she hasn’t done any activism, as far as the public is aware, that doesn’t directly benefit her billionaire dollar corporation.
No need to resort to derogatory insults just cause I’m criticizing your fave. Have the day you deserve✌️
@@shanmo92 im assuming you have the receipts?
@@speaknowethansversionlmao what about the receipts to prove she IS an activist 🫠
Yet she did and received rape and death threats from Maga and the former president
I kinda love the🐐emoji thing. It just makes the f-slur so hard to take serious when it's written that way. It's like, oh you're going to dehumanize me by mocking my sexuality with a picture of goat. So ridiculous.
as someone who went from being a one direction fan from ages 12 to 16 to now being a fan of BTS at age 24 i could say that the frontal lobe developing definitely changes the way you engage with fandom and now *I* have a healthier way of being a fan, HOWEVER this is not true for everyone because seeing the way some grown people behave is scary, so many adults that you would think would be reasonable are out here stalking idols, condeming them for smoking, drinking, dating, etc. and just generally not treating them like people AND creating fandom spaces that are so toxic by instigating bullying and doxing over fan wars. Being a fan of something is great and it can create a beautiful community but it seems nowadays it's about only loving and praising your fave without thinking AND attacking anyone who dares have a critical thought.
i sadly (fandom-wise) followed the same path as yours and tbh i feel like online stan culture has reached intolerable levels by 2024 so far. my experience as a directionner then as an army on twt only proved to me that ppl are bound to reach that insane degree of obsession with their fav to the point of turning into a certain monstrous follower that prioritises defending their fav over anything else including being a respectful and sensitive human being. i mean the fact that the fandom itself is split into sane fans and crazy fans who're at each others' throats daily says a lot. i love music immensely but i realised that i no longer have the energy to be part of this mess so i quit armytwt for good and i feel so much more at peace rn. i understand you when you brought up the criticism abt smoking dating drinking etc and i agree with you i believe stan culture is becoming more concerning the more fandoms turn into cults and the more fans start to think they have a saying in their fav's life. i wish we could all just enjoy music without having to terrorise media consumption and turn it into a traumatising experience for both peaceful fans and non-fans who're simply voicing a harmless opinion...
i also feel the same way. i've been in fandom communities since forever and now feel like a better, more-mature fan at 25. my brain has fully developed AND i left stan twt for good.
honestly, if you want to have a better experience as a fan, just don't use twitter. while i made some really good friends who are still in contact with me today, i suffered from traumatic experiences. it was just not worth it. it doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of nazis and white supremacists roaming happily on that site
@@chiocoral exactly!! i'm 25 too and i've had my fair share of experiences on twt and as much as i've met so many lovely ppl whom i'm still friends with until today, i think online spaces are way too toxic to ignore when you're part of them. it IS indeed not worth it 😭 it's true that my introverted ass hasn't been able to make friends since i've quit stan twt graduated and started working from home and i miss being part of a community online where we can hype content, have a good laugh, and meet new ppl but it comes at the expense of having to deal with the darker side of that experience especially when you're older and social issues and peace of mind start to matter most (personally speaking) and you witness others you used to identify with act like everything you stand against :(
@@jistardust same thing. tbh, maybe i’m a little biased because of my nostalgia, but i do believe stan twt used to be fun years ago. of course, it wasn’t completely perfect back then either, but i feel that fandoms on that site now act way more cult-y and toxic than ever before. currently, tweets that wish for bts members to get r*ped in the military get 100k likes and you can’t even give constructive criticism to a singer or a song without being at risk of receiving threats and insults. like, how tf has that gotten normalized????
I just finished making my bagel this is perfect
Please create a fantasy football league with you, contrapoints, broey, and other related creators 😂
get austin mahomes in there!!
16:51 - I’m with her. I’m so sorry you received that type of vitriol. Hope you’re okay. Sending positive vibes.
As a queer person myself, I can't help but laugh at the use of the goat emoji. I can't not see that and think of how people use GOAT to refer to certain people as the Greatest Of All Time. So in my head, when I see the goat emoji, in that context, I think it's just like being called some high queer compliment lol (though it's not and is just outright silly for anyone to actually call anyone earnestly)
the photo of her hugging brittany i believe is at the us open, not a chiefs game since travis is next to them and not down on the field lol. i think its completely possible for a normal person to be friendly with their SO's coworker's wife without discussing politics, but as someone who cultivates a huge fanbase of young impressionable people, she might have an added responsibility to choose her public interactions more carefully. that being said i dont think she herself is actually as super left-leaning as a lot of her online fanbase wants her to be so who knows, maybe shes aware and doesnt really care
@kayosgardenSo if I'm left leaning and people like my music so much that my catalog is valued in 1 billion dollars what should I do to still be left-leaning? Do I have to sell it?
@@galderpena5557 you'd promote better taxation so even if you live like the 1% most of your income will be used to fund hospitals, schools, roads, etc. Especially because it would make other billionaires be taxed more! The second best thing is setting up or donating to charities. She could donate about 99% of what she has and still live like a rich person. That's how obscene a billion is. And that's what I'd do personally. I'm upper middle class in my country but I don't just hoard, I try to help other people out with whatever I don't need. If I was a millionaire I'd still live mostly the way I do, because it's what's right.
Don't get me wrong, I don't care about TS or anything like that, I'm just agreeing that you can't be both a billionaire and a leftist.
@@MaryamMaqdisi Again, Taylor Swift doesn't have one billion dollars of real money, it's a net worth estimation. She must have a few dozens of millions, though, but I'd like to be reminded of any other artist, politician or whatever that donates 99% of their money or gets asked to do so. AOC or Bernie Sanders are part of the 1% with the most income, are they donating their money or are they not left leaning?
You actually can't be a good person while continuing to be friends with bigots, hope this helps!
Yes, you can be friendly with your SO's coworker's wife. But random hugging with huge smiles is not "I'm just nice to her, met her few times" as is regular form of being friendly with such a person
People are so unhinged online. An example of this is the hate train that Camila Cabello is getting right now from Sabrina Stans. Do they not know that Sabrina went through this too? So why contribute to someone else’s misery, especially someone you don’t know at all, on behalf of someone you also don’t know. 😭😭 and i love Taylor’s music, but I fear that the unhinged Sabrina Stan’s are probably new ones that came from the eras tour. 💀😩
Edit: I also know there is a lot to criticize abt Camila, but that’s not what these stans are doing
Stans when Camilla is racist:
Stans when Camilla dates them same guy as their fave: 🔪 🔪
@@MoMo-rx4zr most comments on any Camila thing online is about the racism. when she dropped that feat with lil nas, ALL the comments were about it. you must not read her comments.
I'm sick and tired of Reagan being blamed for everything
like Thatcher just stood idly by
Nixon helped too!
Lol, you had me in the first half
Like the music if you want, but htinking she did more than marketing while using emotions to become a billionaire is misunderstanding, how one has to think to accumulate that much wealth. There is no difference to Musk, just different target groups. Sorry to say that, PLEASE read Adorno or think about that just for a sec. A billionaire, that is a good person? How?
Taylor Swift uses the same methods to gather money than your local band with 3k Spotify listeners, the only difference is that instead of having 3k fans she has 300M and a music catalog valued in +$700M. That's how she becomes a billionaire, by the net worth of her music, what the hell does have to do with Elon Musk's scheme?
@@galderpena5557 Please get informed about the Spotify payout system. Because she literally collects from these artists as well through the payout key.
@@galderpena5557it’s not the same as my local band. They can’t independently release a concert film. They can’t create a film that is essentially brand propaganda. They can’t release 8+ variations on an album with different tracks on each edition to entice people to buy more than one. They cannot produce a tour so well resourced it is truly one of the shows of a lifetime. None of these things are anything but good business on a massive scale but if you can’t understand that scale is the operative factor in why her business practices are unethical i beg you do some thinking and reading. Creating that much profit is morally ambiguous at best. Hoarding that much wealth in a world with the most extreme wealth divides in history is morally bankrupt.
@@nolan-zs5mc Of course the magnitude is not the same but the model business is. Touring, streaming, digital and physical records. With the same labels, the same distributors and the same platforms, only with different resources available. Your local band could suddenly explode and have 3 billion streams with the same business model they get 3k streams. For example Chapell Roan is now a millionaire with the same business model she was 'nobody' a few months ago. There is no moral change in her activities.
@@galderpena5557 the majority of her profit is not streams it’s merchandising and touring, which as you note is the music business model with more resources, I felt I had also acknowledged this but if not yes that’s true. Yes Chappell is a millionaire and there is no significant moral change in her activities, she is not hoarding wealth to such a significant degree. Please consider how many millions makes 1 billion, let alone billions plural. How you gain the wealth does not determine how ethical hoarding the wealth is. If Chappell becomes a billionaire consider her morally bankrupt.
I AM SORRY THIS IS OFF TOPIC
THAT EYESHADOW IS STUNNING WOW PLEASE HAVE A GREAT DAY (if you somehow actually read this, and maybe share what shades it is, i would be very grateful.... Just wow!)
Lllpp😊
I’d love to know as well!
It’s so interesting it can cause body shame and identity diffusion. Since grade school, I was OBSESSED with certain celebrities while growing up- to the point I would attempt to use ‘magic’ & spells to make me more like that celeb. Now I’m 32 and I’ve grown out of celeb worship completely, only to find I don’t know how to “act” like myself anymore. Seeing my friends who have known me since high school and college, I overthink and feel like I have to act like my ‘old self’ (Who was probably copying Blake Lively or some shit) 😂. After major mental shifts, I’m only now beginning to discover my true personality. It’s so fucked & I realize how exhausting it all was.
Matt, im a farget from mexico, i just want you to know that i wait your video every week or so, not only I admire you but i feel close to you, in a youtube weird parasocial way, please never stop doing this work, love from here ;)
I really, really hate Swiftie culture. I'm basic and I genuinely adore all her music - I've been listening to her since near the beginning when I was a teenager. I would happily call myself a Swiftie if that didn't mean, to so many people, that you rabidly defend everything she does, become exclusionary of anyone who goes against any sort of any internal rules, and thinks it is okay to bully people on the internet who have a different music taste or just a different line in the sand for when they find supporting someone unethical.
I knew they couldn’t be good, but I was STUNNED at the absolute vitriol and bigotry spewed in youe examples. Absolutely unacceptable!
Stan culture really is something else. I really appreciated this discussion on it!
I enjoyed a lot of her music growing up, especially in high school. Now I feel like I can't say that bc I don't want to be associated with the monstrosity of online Swifties. They're constantly attacking and harassing people. Chappell Roan and her fans have been the latest victims and it's so hard to watch
I got de**h threats from swifties for calling out her jet usage. Too ridiculous.
1:06:58 I was most active of stan twitter when I didn't have that many irl friends. Once all the friend group drama settled and people grew up, I had that space and community in person, so I became less active online. And yeah from experience a solid third of the swiftie stan accounts are queer people, with quite a lot of 13-20 year olds.
Matt’s nails are always fabulous 👏🏽
as someone who works in online moderation, i really hate that my emotional support podcast just taught me new shit to flag 😂
15:57 love the anime profile pic of a superhero who stands for equality, justice and always doing the right thing and prioritizing others over himself sending "ill wishes," let's say. These kids will never learn irony.
Why are the people who unironically use ":3" always the most evil beings? lmao
@@Doggcereal yeah idk. they pull a real jekyl and hyde. maybe it's some sort of coping mechanism?
As someone who has been part of stan culture for 10 years trust me it is brain rot and waste of time I will never get back. Everyone is a effing idiot in those spaces
fuck the swifties, this fandom has really gone to the dogs. Matt, feel free to say whatever you want, your criticism of Taylor was valid, well-articulated and completely true, she's only ever stood up for stuff a handful of times when it concerned or benefitted her, she made a whole ass movie about it, and other than that she stands for nothing.
i (a transgender oklahoman) worked as a valet at the hotel trump & his staff stayed at when he came for the Tulsa rally. one of our slowest nights ever (aside from the frantic secret service detail)
42:16 an ethical dillemma where we have to decide to sacrifice one life to potentially save many... is this.... the Dolly problem?
The story of the swiftie on Stan twitter that refused to join the IDF has been bouncing around my head for MONTHS, thank you for including it 😂
As someone who's grown up within and participated in fandom spaces and has been something of a stan for various figures over the years, can I say that there have been times I have felt wildly out of place in fandom because of the fervent nature of these extreme examples of fans? I'm not sure what it is about my brain--and I am not claiming to be better or more well adjusted than anyone else--but even though I have/have had deeply parasocial relationships, I haven't gotten to the place where I feel like I really ever know the people I'm a fan of. Maybe it's the social anxiety or depression (because I certainly don't have a strong irl community), but I would really never actually want to meet the people I've been a fan of. Further, I've been sad when someone has said something critical of those people, but I've never attacked someone for it online or, really, gotten that upset? I don't know how common it is in the fandom space, really, because I think the type of stan culture you're talking about is the vocal minority, but it has made me feel broken in the past. Like, why aren't I that invested? Am I not a big enough fan?
Just something to chew on, I guess 🤷🏻♂️
Taylor is overrated and not untouchable
I really appreciated your enthusiasm when correcting the sportsball player's name.
Matt, your voice is so soothing. You were made for this. I’ve been following for years and I’m so happy to finally find your youtube.
this is cathartic to listen to after my experience with stans today
I kinda already said this on the instagram post, but a I was harassed and stalked by Melanie Martinez fans earlier today at the time of writing this. they accused me of horrid shit, victim blamed, spew Zionist, anti-palestine and pink washing rhetoric. and even posted my "adult" art from a separate account on a completely different platform in the replies against my wishes as a "gotcha" moment, while putting themselves, myself, and other people in harm's way (one of the stans is a minor, and I've specifically stated that people under 18 are NOT allowed on my account, yet they continued anyways)
all of that, because I said "smellanie Fartinez"...A damn fart joke.
I also saw them make fun of people's appearances and weaponize people's identities against them because the people in question support victims of sa or stand against a gen*cide
it felt dehumanizing and demoralizing. having my own art used against me, all because I draw "adult" art sometimes (as if "adult" artists aren't human beings with emotions and feelings as well). having them call me awful things, and them calling me a p*do because I have a visibly trans character. and them putting me in a paranoid state, disregarding my boundaries and rule's I've set to keep not only myself and others safe.
all of that while they chose to worship an "alleged" r*pist.
it still makes me sick now, but thank you for making this video. it means a lot
I'm impressed, you are a very conscious and emotionally developed individual. Very mature and wise beyond your years. Keep up the good work!
5:07 that went right over my head 😂😂
That exhausted correction had me cackling 😂
Ehem. I know that Asian stan culture is a niche topic here, but Swifties r not alone in it. It's like. Almost standard K-pop idol stan behaviour. (And J-pop. And actors. And I've heard similar stuff from Thai BL actors, and I didn't even know that it was a thing.)
So what I'm trying to say is stan culture is crazy everywhere you can find it, although it has regional differences and levels of toxicity.
(And I kinda laugh at 'crazy swifties staff, cuz like. Gurl, u don't even know how to stream a clip most efficiently, c'mon)
I really don't get why they are saying stan culture is uniquely American. Anyone who has taken a gander at what goes on in Japan and South Korea knows that American stans are tame in comparison to the idol otakus.
I think about this all the time! no matter which type of fandom I look to for research (music, books, tv shows, movies, sports, politics), unhealthy stan behavior runs deep. I usually see the hate get thrown to fandoms that are usually made of up majority women, which is another conversation in itself, but it truly is everywhere and is a problem everywhere.
and you mentioning the Thai bl actors is one I found recently too, lol! I kinda figured it’d be there too which is why I looked, but I was curious about how the culture went about if it’s only a short series and some press tours. turns out it gets just as intense in those fandoms as everywhere else.
@@inplainsi oh yea, we need to talk about why fandoms that are presumably more woman-oriented are hated so much more than man-oriented!
but its funny how mostly harmless fan behaviour is demonised, while other is capitalised (and i feel like it also is a problem with unhealthy stan behaviour)
ugh, hope my thought aren't too chaotic.
@@Moonlitwatersofaqua I wouldn’t say tame in comparison since it can go from innocent to violent anywhere, but it may just be a lack of knowledge or choice to speak on other cultures and their fandom culture there for this episode. I agree that it isn’t uniquely American though!
my best guess is calling it “uniquely American” (which I didn’t catch, I could’ve just missed it) could have just been a mindless comment since the focus on this episode was American stan culture. I feel you though! reading about stories all over the globe makes me realize that fans will get dangerous and quick😭.
@@rokseyha1343 your thoughts aren’t chaotic at all! that makes sense as well. while there are some healthy fan behaviors who simply like to buy the things the subject puts out and support them, a lot of money comes from keeping people engaged and it’s easiest to do that with people ready to do anything for a step closer to you or whatever their goal is. this works for fans of a subject of any kind, it’s dangerous and a slippery slope though, especially with politicians but also with fans of an artist. good thoughts!
omg so interesting i have so many thoughts! when i first joined stan twitter i had just begun questioning my sexuality and it gave me a safe space where i could do that with other people going through the same thing. i was also very lonely because i was either working or doing schoolwork. not only did being stan give me a community, it also gave me a cause to believe in
Never hit the subscribe button so proudly
You have nerves of titanium STEEL my friend
I was not ready for that hard at 0:38
LOL AUSTIN MAHOME IM CRYING
Crazy fan bases have always been around but I almost feel like the Swifties were the ones who normalized it. The Taylor Swift vs. Scooter Braun documentary actually talks about how it started. When the masters business deal didn't really go her way, she literally told her fan base to try to convince Scooter to change his mind. When his family started getting death threats, he asked Taylor to tell her fan base to stop but she kept silent. The whole thing is weird because she's a grown wealthy woman with power asking her fan base of people much younger than her for help with a business deal? Her and her team are very well aware of how her fan base is but they keep silent because they're the reason why she's so wealthy.
Stans don't seem to understand that they poison their own community with abusive rhetoric. Any community will inevitably have conflict, and it's our duty to learn healthy communication in order to engage with it. I've removed myself from fandoms that I genuinely loved, and it sucks, because it could have been something great had we been more focused on healthy expression.
i believe i was that someone who wrote to you (analysing may help with the pain) and it makes me so happy to know you actully saw that in a moment where i believe reading comments is not fun at all. lots of love
her music is way too mid to justify all of this, nothing justifies it but like really? they need to chill
I know it’s weird due to the nature of them, but your videos comfort me. I use UA-cam videos to quiet my PTSD thoughts/flashbacks as I go throughout my day and I often use your videos. The only Patreon I have ever bought and worth it !!
I continue to be baffled by people who say they preach 'love' and 'equity' (because their idol pushes it), who then turn around and spread hate. I shouldn't be surprised though, it's the modus operandi of the entire Christian faith. Yeah, Jesus did say to be kind, but our modern interpretation is only be kind to certain people. HUH?!
I’m a huge, HUGE Michael Jackson fan, and Thriller is my favorite anything ever, but I’ve always disagreed with the way other fans jump down the throats of people who don’t like him. At the end of the day, I don’t know Michael as a person just because I enjoy his art, so I feel no obligation to defend him as an innocent little angel who’s never done anything wrong.
Oh MJ fans are probably the actual worst - they are convinced he was the new Jesus
I feel like this whole discussion shouldn't have been "is Taylor swift a republican?" (because she clearly isn't, and has stated so many times) but "can you be left/democrat and be friends with someone who wants certain people to not have rights?" or "are you truly an ally, if you're allying with people who hate us?"
The answer is no😂
But she's also a billionaire and uses sweatshops for her merch, so she clearly doesn't care about some people's rights.
about time someone actually pointed out what’s wrong with these stans - and good for you not blurring names out!!
I empathize with being viciously attacked on social media, and like Amanda said, the fight or flight response sent me into a huge dysautonomia and mast cell flare. I had continuous panic attacks for the next two months. I’m so sorry you were subjected to this needless vitriol.
Taylor swift is the epitome of mediocrity and it BAFFLES me that people are as rabid about defending her as they are. And she does the bare minimum and gets lauded for it.
the toxicity of so much stan culture is what drove me further from the swiftie fandom. i love her music, but everyone in the public eye is kinda fair game to critique to some extent. there's genuine criticism that SHOULD be made about her. she shouldn't be single-handedly driving global warming more in a year than the average person would in their lifetime (idk the real stats but my sentiment stands). she has been the victim of a lot of misogyny-fueled vitriol, but that doesn't excuse her other shit. these two things can be true at once. she's not immune to all negative feedback just for being a great songwriter. that's not how life works, let alone public life.
I stand with you on this. Being in some of the swiftie group chats and servers REALLY made some of my worst moments the past 4 years. The type of harassment I have gotten INTRA-FANDOM for criticizing Taylor has opened my eyes on how much of a religion it has become. I could say “Taylor should change her hair up a little for TS12” and I would get dragged for objectifying her and being sexist. I really wonder if it’s somehow related to the 2016 scandal and how that was approached by the swifties and how they were affected there or if they feel like Taylor needs protection (which she literally doesn’t. She couldn’t care). It’s just that Taylor isn’t a saint or a goddess that needs worshiping. Even she’s stressed on how it can feel a bit weird when people act this way and has even written SONGS about not being the “guiding light”. She’s a human being with complex emotions, beliefs and other issues that shape her into the person she is. You cannot idolize a person like that and it’s definitely made it way less desirable to be in a fandom where you’re getting slurred and screamed at all the time
Also FYI, Taylor isn’t really contributing an insane amount as much as rumors say. Statistically, Beyoncé and JayZ along with other really big artists have 10x more emission damage than her. Just saying in case swifties come drag you in the future 😭
Everything is GamerGate now
I just clicked this because I needed something to listen to while I work and I wasn't expecting to find Amanda Montell AT ALL???? looooove this, tysm!
i've moved away from engaging with it, but this is incredibly prevalent behavior in online fandom of fictional media as well. that wasn't implied otherwise here, just mentioning it because of the horrors i've seen and still do see when the blacklists and blocking accounts fail and it inevitably ends up in front of me. i have a side twitter i just use to view fanart and other fanworks and the absolute horrific vitriol i see while looking through those posts is insane and unhinged in the wildest ways. a horribly prevalent thing going on currently is minors pretending to be adults to interact with adult accounts, find 18+ fanworks, then send those to other minors to rally harassment onto the creators of said works despite the creators intentionally blocking minors and trying to have an adults only space. the vocabulary i see when scrolling through these fandoms really reflects purity culture and extremely conservative values under the guise of social justice, and these communities co-opt cancel culture as well to hate and fearmonger. i see a lot of verbage accusing artists and the like to be groomers in a similar way the alt-right do.
when i was younger and a few years before this type of fandom really exploded, i would try to diffuse situations or argue back how the weird purity culture and obsessiveness over shipping fictional characters to the point of death threats was (obviously) ridiculous, but eventually i gave up and deleted the accounts i would interact with fandom on. it was too much stress to try to be positive when so much negativity and vitriol is shoved in your face over stuff so inconsequential. especially now, a lot of it feels like idolatry and turning ship wars into political movements.
Omg, i was interested in her book already. It's so cool that you can have authors and journalists here
Literally I wanted TS to show her support for Harris because I know it will impact people, but I kept asking my friends "When did her fanbase turn into a cult because I'm not voting for whoever my favorite singer tells me to!"
Why didn't she demand a ceasefire in exchange for her endorsement?
I adore you. Thanks for keeping at it.
51:42 As a Kiwi I always feel a deep sense of shame hearing a Kiwi accent spouting bigotry in a non-Kiwi piece of media :(
sounded aussie to me tbh
@@Kate-ms2mnI've lived in Aotearoa and Australia, that accent was kiwi as fuck
0:37 The way you just said that so casually made me do a spit take all over my computer...😂😂😂
I will never spend an hiota of energy defending a billionaire.
The NZ accent defending Andrew Tait was such a jump scare.
16:07 hm I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Taylor swifts fans are problematic and abusive
I'd say in every group you probably have a percentage of unhinged, abusive ppl.
The percentage may vary from group to group, but every group will have them..and in a group which contains millions having a few thousands willing to push each other to higher and higher heights of abuse is sadly...predictable!
"Never complain, never explain" has worked pretty well for Trixie Mattel, who famously (within the drag community) stays completely away from addressing stupid controversies. Every time a queen gets herself into more trouble by posting defensive responses to situations, we compare them to how Trixie handles similar situations. It won't stop anti-drag people from harrassing her, but it keeps drag fans moving on pretty quickly.
Wait, I need to know what eyeshadow you’re wearing because holy shit girl, you look ✨incredible✨ OMG the sparkle 🤩
There's no way Taylor Swift doesn't know about her fans' behavior. She knows she's the only person who has a shot at getting them to fial it down, but she doesn't because they're bringing her money and fame. I'd even go so far as to say her encouraging parasocial attachment so that they'll stay loyal fans is what got us into this mess to begin with.
Honestly, what a joke.
Taylor is the most bland pop star in the past 20 years, her popularity must be a huge social experiment 😅