Pack Weight Doesn't Matter
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2024
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We backpackers hyper-focus on the wrong thing. With thirty years of backpacking experience, this is what truly matters to me when I'm on the trail.
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I have found that the best way to cut weight and going extra distance is by losing 20 lbs not by sawing my toothbrush in half.
Lmao.
True though. My response to all the UL nerds is “I train with a rucksack so I can carry more”.
I say this everytime I see another fat middle management type cyclist on the latest and greatest 15k carbon fibre road bike
😂
I saw my toothbrush (or rather i use these interchangeable toothbrush heads) and i'm not even an ultralighter. Reason is, it fits better into my hygiene kit. And i can stick it into my hip pockets to dry. Normal toothbrushes are just so bulky.
Depends on the size of your toothbrush.
@@jmorrison5206 definitely!
The wife is ultralight with 18 to 22 lb pack. Because i am carrying 50 lbs of our stuff.
10 lbs considered UL NOT 18 to 22
@@jhonyermo This blew over your head. LMAO.
Yup. That's pretty much on it.
@@jhonyermo No, 8 lbs is the limit for ultralight, above that is just light.
Me too, I am ultralight! And my husband is my number 1 most essential piece of equipment.
Know what you can't buy in any outdoor store for any price? Experience... thank you for not only sharing yours, but for being an advocate of this approach. Every new (and a lot of not-new) backpackers need to watch this video. The perfect (?) balance!
Experience and fitness.
REI employees often have tons of experience and expertise, at least the ones i have met. 😉
The question shouldn't be, "what can I do to save weight?" It should be, "what can I do to increase my enjoyment of the trip?" While weight savings is an aspect of that, it's not the end-all-be-all.
So refreshing to hear a youtuber talking sense and not being obsessed with the latest 'must have' gear.
In my opinion wild camping is about scenery, nature, wildlife etc and i don't need expensive ultralight gear to enjoy that.
I started wild camping alone in 1970 and still doing it today at 66. My kit in those days was a canvas tarp, a sleeping bag a primus parafin (kerosene) stove, a pot and a mug and a small canvas rucksack.
Although i now use a tent and better stoves i still dont carry any non-essential items.
If you can stay warm and dry you have all the gear you need. 👍👍
Thank you for making it “okay” to pack what we want with comfort in mind. The UA-cam backpacking “experts” seem to have run down the rabbit hole of “if it ain’t ultralight it ain’t right!”
In terms of injury prevention that would probably be true
It is right for experienced hikers who can pay the price and want to hike long hours. Which is a lot of hiking experts. But for other poeple less so.
@@oongieboongie not necessarily.
Fitness, core strength, muscle strengths and technical understanding are more likely to prevent injuries than gear weight alone.
There's a fine line between nice and light, and stupid light.
@@wendybelworthy Would definitely agree. As a pretty muscular backpacker in my opinion, my only gripe would be I think in general that people who like backpacking and being outdoors wouldn't be big into lifting or gym culture.
@@oongieboongieWeight isnt the end all be all. If i pack a more comfortable sleep system and bring a chair along it will be more weight but these comfort items reduce injury
So glad to hear someone else validate what I have felt for a while.
I'm a 65-year-old novice backpacker. I went to REI to get fitted for a backpack. I tried on three and the first two were so uncomfortable I was miserable on a short walk around the store.
Then I tried on an Osprey backpack, which weighs over 4 lbs, and I was so much more comfortable in that backpack it was shocking.
I'll find another way to save weight, thank you!
Ha, glad I'm not the only non-youngster who's now taking up backpacking. Happy trails!
I’m in my fifties, and I spear by my Osprey packs. My pack MUST be comfortable. If it hurts, I don’t care if there’s only ten pounds in it.
Me too ! Loving my huge Osprey, which is filled with ultra-light gear. And then, carrying 4L of water + lots of food is effortless !
Happy hikes
64 here - and I love my Osprey! Can’t wait for the ice and snow to leave so I can get out again!
40something, a wanderer the whole life, old-school reliable even if heavy equipment appreciator for most of the time, I started to value less weight lately after a back injury and during the lenghty recovery. But my backpack in itself is not the lightest, rather a heavier one but with sturdy construction, well fitting and stable on the back.
Listen folks. I am a woman and still backpacking at age 81! Without lightweight gear I wouldn't be doing this!! At the same time I am safe and comfortable with a weight for lets say 3 days around 23 lbs. Even carrying 7 days of food, my weight is still under 30 lbs. BTW you men are stronger so I'm happy if you are carrying more weight and it doesn't bother you!!
you are awesome
I truly hope I am still backpacking in 19 years. As they say, "motion is the lotion." We have to keep moving.
Rock on sister!🙂...
❤
You are a beast! Life goals!!!
Phew! Someone said what many of us believed for years. Thank you Eric you’re 100% right. The times I’ve been happily hiking with my Osprey 65AG and another hiker has commented how “you’re carrying way too much stuff, your pack is far too heavy”, and yet I feel totally comfortable and happy with my kit choice. Each person is individual & “hike your own hike” also means not judging others. If you 🫵 at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at you 🙂
Fitness trumps all
Something to consider: you are a 40 year old, taller male, in good shape. I am a 60 year old, short female, in not the greatest physical condition, so weight of a pack matters very much to me now. When I was 20, I carried an old external frame backpack, a heavy cotton Coleman sleeping bag, canned food and (usually) a bottle of wine or some beers. My pack weighed probably close to 48 pounds, on a 120 lb body.
In my 40’s, I started having problems with disk degeneration in my spine (probably due in no small part to previous activity), so I scaled down. I got a lighter, more ergonomic Osprey pack, a lighter sleeping bag and pad, lighter tent, lighter cookset and started taking dehydrated food. My pack weighed closer to 35 lbs, on a 140 lb body. That was doable, for a while, but in my 50’s, I started having severe back pain, to the point where I gave up backpacking altogether. I missed it dearly.
Then I discovered Ultra-light, and I’m back on the trail again! I got a Z-packs Arc-Haul backpack, Sea to Summit Flame down sleeping bag, Nemo Tensor pad, Big Agnes Tigerwall UL tent, lighter cookset, consisting of a BRS3000 stove and Toaks 750 ml pot, headlamp instead of flashlight, Sawyer Squeeze water filter, and I ditched about half the clothing I formerly needed to take to stay warm while sleeping. Because of my bad back, I still need to carry a chair, so I got a Helinox UL.
All items included, my total pack weight is around 25 lbs, depending on the season.
That is about HALF the weight I used to carry, without giving up anything. At my age, that matters!
Great story. It's good to hear you figured it out so you can get out there!
I do the same.
Trial and trail experience!
I would still say his fundamental message is true for you. While overall weight matters a lot for you, comfort of the pack and how well it distributes weight will trump the saving of a pound or two in that department. If you have a 5lbs pack that is perfect for you, that is 100% better than a 2.5lbs pack that isn't.
apparently your income substantially increased from age 20 to age 60. 😂❤
I think we should all remember that different things work for different people. Just because one person is comfortable with more weight in a certain pack and another person needs the lightest possible doesn’t mean either is “wrong”.
The thing I appreciate about this video is the message that ultralight isn’t the end all and be all. Comfort is. I have a lighter smaller pack that I used for backpacking thinking it would be better. Then I tried my bigger heavier pack and found it was much more comfortable. It dispersed the weight better. I was in less pain when we got to our campsite. It’d be cool to find a pack that was the best of both worlds, but I can’t keep buying packs right now.
What works for you, WORKS FOR YOU and that is what matters in the end.
While sensible folks will figure this out, folks who fall for the trend without doing their own empirical research might not.
Sometimes someone’s gotta say, “Hey, it’s okay if the heavier pack works better.” 🤷🏼♀️ seems silly, but, it’s true.
I wrestled for several months on whether to buy a quilt in order to save some weight, but I didn’t know if I would miss the feeling of being cocooned in my bag on a really chilly night. On my last trip I tried sleeping with my bag unzipped and opened on top of me to see what it would feel like, and what I discovered is that by keeping my bag I can use is like a quilt or zipper myself in without spending more money. It’s worth the ounces to keep my bag, use it either way, and know I can snuggle in a cocoon if I prefer.
My husband & I opted for a hybrid quilt/sleeping bag Flicker Wide from Feathered Friends as it has a front zipper, drawstring footbox and no hood. It's around 2 lbs. and packs down very compact without having to deal with the drawbacks of a quilt. The really cool thing about it is you can leave the footbox open and wear it around camp like a snuggy! If you want to upgrade to the best of both worlds, check them out. If you call them at Feathered Friends in Seattle, you might score like my husband did. Somebody returned a custom Flicker, extra long with extra fill and he got if for $100 less than what the person paid for it originally. 😉
I'm kinda mad I got a sleeping bag with a hood because of this. Hood just sits on my face and I can't breathe.
Mine has a hood, too. It isn’t perfect, but I’m glad to know how a quilt would feel without spending the money right now. I’ll eventually purchase a hybrid quilt, but for now, I’m content with making this work because of cost.
I’m a lightweight backpacker and ride a Mariposa for 3 seasons. But a Gregory 75 liter for winter and other big trips where I have to carry >45lbs. Can’t beat the comfort and weight transfer to the kegs on a pack like the Gregory for big carry’s. Good points on your vid!
I am the opposite 😅 i wasted money on the sleeping bag (thabk goodness for the rei return policy!) And i actually LOVE my $20 quilt from amazon. A little heavier, but worth it for the comfort! But this is 100% a personal preference.
I was backpacking with my daughter in Pictured Rocks (her first trip) and decided I should be prepared if it didn’t go well. So I picked up an old external frame pack from a thrift store and knew if I had to I could strap her pack to it. It took a little getting used to how to adjust it properly, but once dialed in I hardly knew I had it on. My daughter did great and we had a fabulous time. 40 miles in 4 days.
For folks like me (lower back probs) backpacking wasn't even an option for me until the Ultralight craze took over. Now that the tech has slimmed down in size and weight, I'm actually able to get out there without hindering anyone else's trip or risking personal injury. Love the videos man!! Thanks for the upload!
Wise words.
I got back into wild camping a few years back and I bought my gear on a budget.
I ended up buying a British Army surplus full size Bergen.
Its massive, its a really heavy rucksack, but I love it.
Its designed to be grunt-proof, hard wearing, repairable in the field, and specifically .... to carry VERY heavy loads.
Im talking .... all a soldiers gear plus someone straps on an ammo case or an anti-tank rocket.
I have made some mistakes, packed it wrong, packed it asymmetrically and wedged plastic containers in it at ungodly angles, but it has always got me home and I have NEVER felt uncomfortable or felt something jabbing in my back. On top of this I know that it is highly likely to NEVER catastrophically fail in the field. It is so over-designed that even if something starts to fail, it will not fail during your camp, and when you get home you can set to work fixing it. From what I can gather, this ruck is nearly ten years old and still going strong.
I will happily trade a few extra pounds for comfort, reliability, and saving a lot of money.
Agreed. Anything that's truly grunt proof will likely never let you down.
Thanks for sharing. I'm researching this type of pack now.
It looks like there's different generations of them. Which one do you have?
@@WindsongPodcast I honestly dont know mate.
I only found out that different versions existed after I bought mine.
The one I got is the largest capacity, has two huge side pouches, and one small pouch on the back.
The two side pouches entirely zip off, and can be connected together and combined with a strap system to make a day pack.
I know some more modern ones are like this but with three small pouches on the back instead of one.
I think the general design of the internal frame etc are fairly consistent.
Personally I went for one that was available and cheaply priced.
All the best and good luck mate.
@@TheWtfnonamez thank you!
I'm also a big advocate of comfort > weight. A misconception a lot of backpackers have is that lighter weight = more comfortable + further distance hiking, but what they often forget is that an uncomfortable pack that causes aches/pain can be an absolute killer and ruins a trip. I've carried just 10lbs in poorly designed day-hike packs that wrecked my shoulders on short hikes, and it just goes to show how much it matters to get a proper fitting, comfortable backpack.
Yeah and comfort is also what gear you have. Sure, you could technically just bivvy on the ground everywhere, but its not really responsible nor comfortable for 99% of people
Eric, I concur.
I started packing in 1983. I had (and still have) a heavy Cannondale backpack.
I loaded it with army surplus wool (fall in The White Mountains), Nalgene bottles, canned food, ham, sausage, oatmeal and cheese. It weighed around 55 pounds.
I never heard anybody talking about reducing weight back then. It was all about carrying the equipment you were going to need for that trip, whichever the weight, within reason. Dehydrated hiking meals were not a thing back then so you had to bring normal meals.
I took about 20 years off of backpacking out of a reasonable fear of Lyme disease, as I am from Rhode Island, and I've known people ruined with chronic Lyme disease. I never want to get chronic Lyme disease.
But I started getting back into it again when I moved from Illinois back to Rhode Island in 2009 and met my wife. We honeymooned in Noth Woodstock in a tent.
I next got an REI bag that I believe was made by Osprey. It had a design flaw in the arcing, metal stays that would pop out of place. Nor comfortable.
I returned it about 5 years later under REI's then- lifetime return policy for members and got an Arc Haul because of nearly every YT channel's recommendations.
I wasn't carrying anymore canned goods or hams or other heavy foods, but I was still carrying a 5 lb tent and an enormous extra wide synthetic bag cuz I like to move around and I did not yet know about quilts.
My Z-Paks Arc Haul squeaks. And it doesn't carry much. And you can't strap a Beer Vault to the outside (it slips loose constantly. If you put the canister inside, the arcing system fails.
I was carrying a lot less weight because I was getting a lot more ultralight equipment at this time, but I still would weigh my pack with everything in it, and it would be 35-to-40 lbs, and it wasn't comfortable.
After a lot of research, I learned about Seek Outside's Divide backpack. I think it only weighs about a 0.75 pounds more than the A.H. (it can be stripped down to about 2.2 lbs), but it can carry up to 200 lbs, is 79 liters, is much more rigged and padded, and like you said with your pack, it cam carry 50 lbs. more comfortably than the A.H. can carry 35 lb. It also doesn't squeak.
There are only two shortcomings to that pack: The Velcro adjusting strap for the frame has sharp right angle corners that scrape the center of my back if I'm summer hiking with a light shirt. I need to slap some duct tape over it. The corners should be rounded; it's very difficult to reach the side pockets for water bottles. That could have been done better. At least on one side. Otherwise, it's a gem.
Sidebar, with my size frame at 6-ft, 200 lbs, I don't think I can drop that much more weight because I wear bigger clothing and need a larger sleep system and longer tent than somebody who is 5'-9" and weighs 150 lbs.. My clothing alone probably weighs twice as much. I'll never get my pack down to the weight of a 5'-9", 150 lbs. ultralight backpacker.. unless I hike nude. Trust me, at age 59, nobody wants to see me do that. And that is fine.
Along those lines, I just do not like using trailrunners. I have two very good pairs of trailrunners, and I will use them on day hikes when I'm training. But when I'm out there on the trail, I use lightweight mid boots that offer a lot more support than the trail-runners. It's saved my ankles. Yeah, they weigh more. But they also last longer and protect my ankles better, plus I'm not constantly getting mud and sand in my boots because they are just tall enough to keep those out.
Of course, to each their own.
Happy trails.
I still have my cannondale backpack and use it for winter camping because I can strap my larger sleeping bag and neolight pad on the bottom and top. It's still a great backpack and can be adjusted to different size bodies. And it is still the most comfortable pack I've used.
@@simplesolutions2865
What colors is yours? Do you also or did also live near the factory? I grew up in Rhode Island in I'm living there now, though I have lived in the four corners of the states over a span of 14 years. I'm 60 this week. So I was there when they just started out and they were making the absolute best gear that's ever been made for bicycle packing. All of my bags are from the '70s when I was a little kid and one of the only kids doing hard riding in the entire United States. As a kid, I was so rough on my stuff as far as clothing went. My jeans didn't last longer than 2 months. But I still have every Cannondale bag that I didn't sell because I had a different color in mind or because I had a different model in mind. I really am kicking myself that I sold a complete front and back full size kodura nylon silver panniers. They're still out there used, but they're not going to be out there forever. And when the fabric wears out, I'll still use the frames to make new packs.
Mine is blue The deep navy blue.
I never liked the buckles that were made of stamped aluminum, so anywhere I could I replaced them with modern buckles, and that was a big improvement.
But having the zipper blow-out on one side when it was overstuffed for the winter was a shame because now it will never be quite right, and I just recently tried to force the issue again and now I'm not even sure if I'm going to trust the one zipper where it goes to one section. So it looks like that one is retired for the museum. Unless I get a new zipper. And if you have to do that, oh well... It's a museum piece I won't sell.
What I love about my new tent is that it has backup servers built into the zipper line. You just basically remove the broken zippers and it still working with a new zipper in position. Slinger does that. There was one of the reasons I got it, because it's a winter tent.
Don't mind the rambling. I caught some kind of weird bug and now my wife is getting it. I got it a week ago with a high high fever and for the back half of it of developed this insomnia that is holding me hostage and I haven't slept more than 12 hours and 15 minutes over the last 5 days. Thank goodness the doctor's office available tomorrow. She's just starting to get this. One of the problems is you get delirious and start to ramble and ramble and ramble. It's trippy. If I could bottle it and sell it to kids on the street I'd make a fortune. But the damn stuff won't wear off.
@@chriseidam7319
That SO Divide pack looks like a dream man, but damn, it's so expensive. I'd be looking at over $900 with a couple of the extra add-ons shipped here to Australia. Currently i'm getting by with an old 2.7kg Lowe Alpine Cerro Torre 65:85 at the moment. Hope you're feeling better, be careful with what the doctors give you 💊
@@carl8568
Holy moly, that's twice what I paid for a deluxe version in US dollars.
If it makes you feel any better, during COVID I bought a Locus Gear Kahfra four-person DCF mid tent and 4/5 net inner tent when the exchange rate between the US dollar and the yen was not favorable to me. I spent $1,800 on that set up. Two years later it was selling for $900. And the inner leaks like crazy in the corners, I discovered on a virtual monsoon car camping trip!
Still, if you could swing the cost of that backpack, it would last you for the rest of your life. The thing is overbuilt, yet extremely light for its construction and features.
The buckles are very interesting in the way they work. I've never seen buckles like them before. They're ingenious.
I spent the same money on my zpacks are called back in 2019. It constantly squeaks. The strap slip. And it's only marginally lighter than this Divide pack.
The only issue I have with the divide pack is that the Velcro strap for the torso adjustment of the frame has sharp corners that are stitched and curl up at the point of the corner and will rub my back if I'm only wearing one shirt in warm weather. I either have to tape it down with duct tape or cut those corners and restitch them so they don't curl at the edges. I made them aware at Seek Outside. I don't know if they ever changed it. That Velcro strap should have been completely rounded for the best result.
The bottle pockets on the sides are also difficult to reach. But I'm not very flexible. I just keep my spare bottles in the side pockets and I have a smaller water bottle with a Sawyer filter attached that I have on my left shoulder strap. I hang it with one of those Z-packs bottle hangers that are of blue plastic, and then I secure the bottom of the bottle with some elastic cordage that's looped on the shoulder strap, and I just tucked the bottle into that loop while I hook that top bottle hanger onto the straps.
I have a Camelback mouthpiece and a straw going into that small water bottle so that I can quickly stop at a stream and scoop up water as I see it, and I can drink water without using my hands while I'm on a steep ascent along the Appalachian Trail, which features a lot of steep and rugged trails.
My wife is from Thailand. We've talked about possibly visiting New Zealand or Australia on a visit back to Thailand, if we could get somebody to watch our home while we were away. If I would go backpacking in Australia, where would I want to go if I could only go on one trip that lasted perhaps 4 or 5 nights and went in a loop? I thank you in advance for your advice.
@@chriseidam7319
Ok thanks for the info. I'm planning a trip to the Indian Himalayas in September (heading above 6200m/20,000ft) so I do want to cut down weight as much as possible and I haven't seen another backpack that fits the bill as well as the Divide does. I have never heard of Locus Gear, it looks very exotic hah.
My original goal was to be comfortable enough to hike longer distances and spend more time outdoors and making my pack lighter was a means to that end. The lighter weight wasn’t the end goal! I also have been working on my fitness to achieve that goal. Thank-you for Inspiring us all to circle back and “keep the goal, the goal”! Enjoy your trek- can’t wait to hear all about your epic winter journey!
Travel light, freeze at night. This going light has gone too far overboard. It has become an obsession. I no longer backpack. At 82 my body has had a lot of moving parts replaced. Twenty some years as a wilderness guide has taken a toll on my body. As the leader I was carrying sometimes 1/3 more weight than the group members. No more ski, snowshoe, kayak , canoe trips. I'm down to bike touring. I'm a big believer in equipment that holds up and take a licking and still keep on ticking. One help full hint in carrying a loaded pack is to eliminate wasted energy. First take a photo of yourself with your loaded pack,. On a level spot at home take a side view of you with and without a pack. Make a photocopy with a dot on the shoulder, one on the crest of the hip bone and one on the ankle bone. Connect the dots. Do this with every pack you have using the same items. This sound crazy. Take a photo of you with the load in a box and put the box on top of your head. With each photo measure the forward lean of your body from the vertical. This is called Vector Analisis. without the math. Any lean forward is wasted energy. The goal is to stand as erect as possible. with your pack Take more photos reducing the weight in each pack to see how much weight you can carry close to vertical and no wasted energy. Back in the 70's when I did the study the best performance pack on the market at the time also the cheapest was the 6,000, year old designed Native American pack basket. Made from woven strips of one inch wide by 1/8' woven wood with shoulder straps. The load with no lean of course was the box on top of the head. I see so many over engineered pieces of equipment on the market. Roman engineers were taught that the simplest way is the best way. In the Middle Ages it came to be called Occom's razer. The biggest myth in light weight packing is the 2 oz stove. The stove only weighs 2 oz if you don't bring the fuel bottle.
Agreed, comfort trumps weight. At my vintage, there’s nothing to prove by how minimalist a set up i can survive.
But I used to have 40lb of “comfort” gear and food, in a great, 7lb, very comfortable pack. For 8-12 hours per day was I comfortable on trail? No! It was a suffer fest! And I was fit! In camp? Yes, absolutely!
These days, at 60, and happy still to consistently hike over 20 miles per day, I need to be comfortable for 8-12 hours per day on trail, as well as in camp. And today I hardly ever carry over 25lb total pack weight - what a world of difference!
@@dcaudwell well ya, that’s the other end of the spectrum. There’s certainly a balance to be stuck somewhere in the middle ground. Gear & packs these days have gotten much lighter & made that easier to find.
Ultralight isn’t about doing without. Idk why you folks think that’s the case.
@@Flamingpins it might about having an ultralight wallet & doing without some $ though. A fully equipped ultralight pack could cost some serious coin.
@@lessmore444 Actually that's somewhat of an urban myth. It's possible to get a comfortable sub 10lb base weight for about the same as a traditional set-up. This is mainly because you are buying about half the number of items! When I look at all the unnecessary stuff I used to carry 30 years ago it's mind-boggling! Today I am comfortable for hours on trail and all-night long at camp too, and all the gear I'm carrying weighs less than the weight of my first 75L traditional backpack when it was empty!
One thing no one mentions when it comes to weight saving because they don't want to offend people is your own actual weight. I'm pushing 295lbs and 5ft 10". I'm walking for a week in the summer in the Lake District in the UK. I'm planning on carrying a total weight of 25lbs. So if I can lose that by the time I go my backpack is in effect a zero extra weight. So yeah, if you can lose a few pounds yourself that's the way to go.
Yes, this! 😍 🌿 🙆🏻♀️
I've lost 25kg and I plan on losing more.
I aim to keep my pack as reasonably light as possible, but definitely not interested in the ultra light range.
Comfort and safety first for me. 😁
I love my Osprey backpack.
I had an old pack that I regularly had to carry 80 plus pounds in it since others didn't have gear and once had to strap my buddies pack to mine when he sprained an ankle. While 150# wasn't comfortable it was doable. That memory stuck with me, so when I started taking my son out I decided it was better for me to carry the bulk and let him have fun plus I know in a pinch I can carry his stuff too. Also doesn't help that I am older so comfort is king!
Eric, like all ‘religions,’ ultralight can become simply an ‘I’m better/smarter than you are,’ opportunity. People have hiked for hundreds of years without ultralight/ultra expensive gear. I’m 66 and I am all about comfort. Why be miserable on a trip that’s supposed to be fun and relaxing? That’s not even logical. Unless it’s so you can brag about all your fancy gear. If you want to use ultralight equipment, are young/fit enough it doesn’t bother you-wonderful! But quit trying to tell the rest of us the ‘right’ way to backpack. We will be just fine.
I would disagree about the religion part 😅. There is only one way and that IS Christ. There are multiple ways to camp.
Generally speaking, the less weight I carry, the more comfortable I feel, especially since I am no longer a spring chicken. And there are well designed UL backpacks that carry weight well. For example, the Durston Gear 55 Kakwa. With a pack, a lot of it is about the frame. Durston uses an inverted U and back specific shaped, hollow aluminum tube frame that is well connected to the rest of the pack structure. It helps to keep the pack stiffer (a tip to increase this, is to spray expanding foam in the frame tube--it stiffens up the tube structure even more).
I’m older than you, and have the opposite perspective: I think of ultralight packs as great for the older backpacker, and less needed by the young. In my case, I’m not going any distance with a forty pound pack regardless of its design. I’m all about comfort as well, and the reason I can take my chair with me is that I’ve already saved pounds with my ultralight pack.
This is a fine video, expressing some important points, but I would caution Eric about saying he is “probably” having more fun with a five-pound pack than most ultralight folks. For each of us, there is a sweet spot for pack weight and pack features. Finding it is more important than arguing over the “best” pack style.
(1 Corinthians 13:4) Do you not know, charity is not puffed up?
Yesssss!
This method of choosing gear is exactly! the conclusion I have come to after hiking over 7K miles. I started w a Dana Design (5+lbs) and that pack was bomb proof and never never hurt me. I now use Osprey…saving weight w everything but my sleep system. I carry a heavier down bag w a pillow so I can get a good nights sleep, warm and comfy. That is EVERYTHING for the next day. I’ve dialed in very light cookware, filter system, clothing, food, toiletries, and shelter. I’m able to carry a “heavy” pack w “comfort items” and still come in at 26 lbs. I don’t freeze, get wet, run short of food or water, and half kill myself before I get a week in and bail on the trip due to exhaustion, body stress, and emotional trauma! At 62 yrs old, I’m still able to enjoy multi month trips.
I started with a dana design too, great pack. I use a smaller pack now, but still go for comfort. Base weight of my pack is around 12 kg
I've been hiking in the New Zealand backcountry for decades, and I'm not a fan of an ultra-lightweight approach. While there are a few tracks that are as manicured as many USA trails, the ones I go on are usually way more challenging. I prefer at least 12 days out without resupply, so that's a lot of food. Many river crossings a day. I need a robust pack that can easily cope with the weight and occasional need to haul my pack on a rope. The rugged, wet landscape means boots are a safer bet for carrying heavy loads.
I've got to the point in life where covering as much terrain as I can in 14 hours of walking isn't of interest. I prefer to take my time and enjoy the experience. I now consider my earlier attitude to be hiking on fast forward. Why hurry through some of the best experiences of your life?
I'm baffled by an approach that requires cutting my toothbrush in half. Have we really become that weak?
It's a counterpoint to over packing things you never touch 🤷♂️
you basically state that you are weak, but then mourn about everybody else being weak.
oh delusions.
Lightweight pack doesn't mean you have go go fast. I enjoy being fast and light but slow and light is perfectly fine
Another great tip IMO is to shift carrying your water from the side backpack pockets to water carriers on your front shoulder pads. I carry 2 1 liter Smart water bottles. 1 with plain water the other with electrolytes. That’s 4.4 lbs from your back to your front. It makes a big difference on shoulder comfort. Also it makes drinking water much more convenient.
I’m going to try this. I’ve seen a couple of UA-cam folk doing it and it looks a good idea. Less weight on my your hips.
This makes more sense than 2 bottles on one side pocket that I see alot of..I’m like isn’t that unbalanced!? 😮 I’m gonna a try this! ❤
Agree. I carry two 20oz bottles on the front of my shoulder straps. There is normally plenty of water around so no reason to carry a lot of water. If my trip will have dry areas, or our group needs additional water I have a 3L Platy in my bag to fill.
I found a small cottage company, Justin UL, on Etsy that’s sells a terrific water carrier for the shoulder straps that fits all packs. They are inexpensive and made of quality! Give em a search…
I still carry a bladder inside my pack. As a photographer, I carry a tripod in one side pocket, my tent in the other side pocket. Tent never goes in the pack. Other reason for a bladder is I frequently camp at dry sites, and Ican really load up before getting there.
This is a 100%. I am somewhere in the lightweight area. The ultralight is too uncomfortable at night and i can't make the 10mi days anyways. I keep going back to a framed pack because of the way it carries even in the suggested weight. I found i like the more minimal style pack over all the pockets. It took a bit more time but i looked around for a lighter weight frame pack. I personally like the rei flash, and outdoor vitals cs40 in case anyone wants to check them out.😂
Ultralight is not for everyone... Just like minimalism in everyday life.
I tried on about 7 packs and the best for me is the Gregory Deva 60 l. I need to have that structure putting the weight down on my hips to help w some chronic injuries in my shoulders and back. It carries very well with about 30lbs at my max. I also prefer and need to carry a bear can in PA/NY so the structure in the pack helps w that too. You are totally right about finding weight savings elsewhere besides a critical piece of gear. Everyone has to do what is best for themselves. In my dreams I can get away w total UL 20 lbs. In reality not so much.
I would agree if there werent any comfortable ultralight packs out there. I have used the super cush 6 lb gregory baltoro and also have an ultra light durston kakwa. Hands down the kakwa is my go to. 4 lbs lighter with very little if any drop in comfort. I cant speak to the hyperlight but the kakwa is golden.... i have a feeling it has to do with what material the frame is made of.... super skimpy frames that bend and flex can make a big difference in comfort. However, if you are carrying 50 plus lbs like he said (most people are nowhere near that) then i could see why a pack like this would make sense.
Try a mystery ranch instead of a gregory or osprey. I have found there is a giant leap in comfort between mystery ranch backpacking and hunting packs compared to osprey/gregory/rei etc. Even compared to the more cushy ones like the Baltoro or Atmos.
The "just carry less" argument is all well and good but if you can have a pack that allows you to carry an extra 10lbs more gear and comforts without it actually feeling any heavier, what am I gaining by spending twice as much to buy ultralight gear to fit into my ultralight pack, when I could just get a better pack (not to mention the massive difference in durability).
@@Jinkiro if my loadout was 40 plus lbs I might change my tune but if my 2lb pack is already comfortable with no discomfort I don't see a reason to unessessarily add 4lbs. There is no other singular item where you can reduce 4lbs with one swap (exception being tent maybe...) I don't doubt they are comfortable but unless you are carrying 40 plus lbs it's a really inefficient use of lbs.... also, ultra light packs aren't nessessarily less durable. Take for example ultra 200 fabric which is significantly more durable than 100 d robic nylon that the Bridger uses. Not to mention it absorbs water like crazy unlike ultra material..... the nicer ultra light packs are ever bit as durable if not more durable than the "comfort packs".
@@Jhollowed25 Yes, 10 pounds is 10 pounds . . . in a vacuum, with all else being equal. The thing is, in real-world conditions, all else is almost NEVER equal. Do you think that pushing 10 pounds directly on the ground in front of you would be exactly the same experience as pulling 10 pounds behind you on lightweight wheels? That it would cost you exactly the same amount of effort, that it would put the exact same wear and tear on your body?
A pack that "carries well," that has features that distribute the weight load evenly across your shoulders, your back, your hips, will feel far different than if you just dumped that same weight load into a flimsy string bag and set off on your hike. The structured pack will certainly be heavier than the string bag, but your body will carry the weight load more efficiently with the former, and that efficiency translates into less fatigue/injury, and THAT translates into longer and more consistent daily miles. Even though -- SHOCK, HORROR!!!! ;) -- you are using a heavier bag, and thus, overall, are carrying more weight than you would be with the string bag.
Obviously, those examples are extreme, but just to illustrate the point. And also, of course, there will be a "sweet spot" between "stupid light" and "crazy cushy," and that spot will be a little different for everyone. I wouldn't have any interest in that Mystery Ranch pack because of its weight. On the other hand, many ultra-lighters would sneer at my Osprey Eja 58 and its 2.7 pounds, but for me that pack hits the spot of just enough structure/comfort, but not an outrageous amount of weight.
Eric congrats on getting married. Hope you have many adventures together. My wife and I have been married for 30 years and more in love today than ever. Totally agree with you on the Hyperlight pack. I purchased and sent back the day after I got it. Seemed like a trash compactor bag with straps. I purchased the Gregory Zulu 65 and love it! It’s 4 lbs and I save weight by going with MSR pocket rocket stove and less water spending more time on Backcountry finding water resupply. Thanks for being “bold” with this video. All the best! Diceman
Eric, your message is a breath of fresh air! I'm 57, grew up in the 70's with a boy scout frame pack, an Alpenlite external frame in the 80's, then a military internal frame pack that would carry whatever weight I needed for the trip. Now that I'm a little older, I cut the pounds and ounces where I can so that I can enjoy a few improvements in my sleeping gear and a few other areas. When I was 30 I could sleep on the ground with or without a pad. Now I carry a little extra weight, investing in the most comfortable sleeping bag and wide, inflatable, warm pad to give this aging body a great night's rest so I can enjoy the experience! I still prefer a more robust hunting pack to organize and carry my gear, it just works for me! I love that there are so many different options for everyone to enjoy the great outdoors!
Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud Eric. I certainly understand thru hikers wanting to minimize weight but I believe that methodology has had so much UA-cam content and marketing pushed onto us that many have been infected with the notion they cannot go backpacking unless they have the latest in ultralight gear, even for short trips. Your point on saving weight on the big items where it can count most is well taken but choosing one cook pot over another because it weights an ounce less than another is silly. I wish more UA-camrs would keep this in mind when making gear recommendations. Keep up the good content.
I’m able to keep my total pack weight under 30 pounds even with a heavier backpack anyways. So If I can carry that weight more comfortably, why not. It’s worth mentioning that my trips are usually shorter than 4 days. And almost all my gear is ultralight or lightweight(I don’t think I’m losing comfort with ultralight gear tbh). It’s also worth mentioning that I always carry my bushcraft knife, my silky saw, a wood stove in addition to an ultralight gas stove, and a freaking titanium multipurpose rice cooker (which is the only cookware I bring) with me on most of my trips. I also make sure to bring real ingredients for three meals(the other meals are dehydrated). So yeah, for your average weekend warriors, it’s possible to keep your pack relatively light and still bring what you need with you(and possibly what you don’t need, like the saw and the knife).
I think it’s all dependent on the type of hike you’re doing. I feel UL is much more important if you’re doing a very long thru-hike, which is probably only 5-10% of backpackers.
This is the best comment so far on gear. Gear is mission dependent.
@@shanksmareYou nailed it: what we carry is all about the adventure, just carry what's needed and use what makes sense. Experience and skills will personalize the load over time. You're just too practical! Hahaha
@@shanksmare this is why I love the UL obsessed. The popularity of that approach has introduced a massive array of really innovative and clever gear into the industry, which means I'm more able to tailor a loadout to the specific trip I'm heading out on. I do feel for beginners, because the array and variety of gear options probably makes it easier to buy yourself into a hole at the beginning, but once you have a handle on what you're doing the range available is an absolute blessing.
It’s funny how so many people believe that all hikers have the same goals and preferences. Today I mostly enjoy shorter trips, where my main focus is actually the breaks and the long evening stay. I.e. not the distance travelled, but how much I enjoyed my hours out in the silent nature. Which means that weight and skipping equipment is quite irrelevant, and so my goals actually might add some weight. Which I’m happy to carry the short distance back to the car ☺️But for some people, this doesn’t even seem like a realistic scenario - because everybody of course wants to log as many miles/kilometers as possible 🤦♂️
If you go walking Annapurna (NP) ...go light ! You don't want to drag huge weight up to 5600m while all comfort is all around you . I did have 25 kg on my back ..years ago and cursed myself for that. But is you go where there is nothing and its cold there (Kanchenjunga) NP .. be prepped with a bit heavier gear and get someone to release you from the heavy load .. (he has been doing that a long time on that altitude) .
Thank you for this info & providing links to the items you recommend! I’m researching those items, particularly a backpacking backpack, tent and sleeping mattress but for my size. Happy trails!
After a few videos I am going to look at the details of the Mystery Ranch packs. I use an Osprey Atmos 65 (pre AG) model. One trick I use to cut my pack weight over time is to go through my pack after trips and put all the “luxury” items I did not use in a box. Then on my next trip, I will think twice before bringing them again. If you do this every trip, you will eventually cut weight from your pack.
After a little reading, I see that Mystery Ranch was founded by Dana Gleason who also founded Dana Design many years ago. They made packs I really loved back in the 1990’s. I worked in a backpacking outfitter for many years while in college through the 90’s up to 2000. Dana Design was one of the top pack brands. The pack I used for years was a Terraplane X, which sadly I no longer own. It was heavy by today’s standards, but also very comfortable. I see that Mystery Ranch sells packs with the Terraplane and Glacier names now and look very similar to their Dana Design siblings.
Bridger is literally an old Dana Design pack with updated harness and materials.
I got 18 inches of titanium screwed to my spine , and for me it does matter . I tried the hyperlite duffel bag pack , and it sucked for me it was the worst pack I’ve ever had.I found my saving grace for comfort in the zpacks arc haul .that 5-1/2 pound pack weighs as much as my pack,tent,quilt,and sleeping pad together 😮 lol
Hahaha yeah, he didn’t mention that it is in fact possible to have a light pack that also carries loads comfortably. Doesn’t have to be one of the other. Durston’s sub-2lb Kakwa is known for being a comfortable long-hauler, as well as your Arc Haul. Six Moon’s Swift packs are also insanely comfortable with their running-vest style straps. You DO NOT need an almost 6 f’ing lb pack to be comfortable on trail, I’m sorry.
@@backpackingcapebreton I’ve been eying the durston . the swift was just above the hyper light for me
I had both strap systems ,and could never get comfortable with it but the build quality was impeccable on the swift. Not hat any of them are bad it’s just like shoes and underwear not everything fits everybody the same.
@@backpackingcapebreton "You DO NOT need an almost 6 f’ing lb pack to be comfortable on trail"
No of course you don't, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't dismiss a great pack just because it is 2.7kg. If you are comfortable wearing that pack and like it, then use it!!
At the end of the day, regardless of what approach people take (less weight vs more weight) and the opinions we have on it, I think we all just want to go hiking, be safe and relatively comfortable - so if people are able to do that whilst carrying less that's great! If people can only do that by carrying more that's also great! The thing that matters the most is to be out on trail and enjoy nature :)
Please stop being the voice of reason, and give in to the click bait! Join the echo chamber of goofy ideas! 😵💫 Now repeat after me “pack weight doesn’t matter…10lb frame packs are cool as long as they sponsor my video! Quilts are cold. Car camping is less scary! Buy more! Buy now!” 😵💫
I love your message…my pack pack is 4.8 lbs and love it! Comfort is everything! TY!
Thank you for sharing this. When I saw your thumbnail, I thought “that is counterintuitive“. But you have done a good job at explaining the need for comfort and proper carrying of weight as an argument for not overdoing the weight minimization.
I am a 68-year-old female, 5'2", 145 pounds and I regularly carry packs weighing between 55 and 60 pounds at the start of a trip. I am sick to death of men - and it is ALWAYS men - telling me that my pack is too large and heavy. Makes me want to scream: TOO HEAVY FOR WHOM??! YOU arent carrying it!! I have been backpacking in the Grand Canyon for 25 years (as well as elsewhere), and after about 2-3 dozen trips with the Grand Canyon Conservancy Field Institute, I am very familiar with what my needs are in that environment. I always look for the lightest weight sleeping pad, sleeping bag, and other necessary gear. I dehydrate all of my own food and I no longer carry a stove. The heaviest thing I carry is water, the next is food. The pack I use is a Gregory Baltoro at 95L. This is my third iteration of the Gregory 95L packs; the canyon environment tends to eat stuff. My body is kind of crooked, I need lots of adjustments, and this is the most comfortable pack I have ever carried (actually, the Gregory Whitney was the most comfortable, but this is the follow on). I have tried on ultralight packs and they are ultra uncomfortable. My trip lengths are at least 5 days and 7-8 is more typical. The last trip I went on in the canyon with a young female friend, I warned her that she would hear lots of men telling me my pack was too heavy. On the way out, after the third or fourth comment, she says, "Wow. You were right." So if you see a small, blond woman with a very large pack, hauling ass along a trail, do us both a favor and shut it. As a female, I am used to men trying to mansplain everything to me, so I will just ignore you. Save your breath for the trail.
60 lb pack? That is very funny fantasy story you wrote))
Like I said, its always men who MUST mansplain to me.@@sergioistomin7392
I have a 1965 Kelty pack - loaded up is about 40 pounds, then I have to carry several gallons of water when backpacking in the desert in big bend.
You rock🎉🎉🎉
I started hiking when gear was heavier, then I joined the army and got used to carrying a pack with 15lbs of personal gear and another 75-100 lbs of ammo, belts for the machine gun, radio batteries, and other heavy crap. And we didn't saunter between cafes on the Appalachian trail- we went up and down mountains, fast. Now I'm old and broken, and I would strongly discourage anyone from carrying 100 lb + packs if their life didn't literally depend on it, but these people (like the poster below who thinks 60 lbs is a fantasy), and who think anything more than 10 kilos is impossible for the human frame to bear, are just not trying. I don't go to the gym and brag about how light a bench press I can do, why do the ultralight people brag about how little weight they can carry without fainting? And so many of the ultralight tricks are based around being near enough civilization and rescue to risk being lightly prepared. It's a choice, and maybe the right one for some games, but it's not a backcountry wilderness choice. Take what you need, and go slower if you have to, to make sure you are self sufficient.
I’m with you. Most of my gear is fairly light - nothing crazy, I still use my trusty jetboil - but Ive continued to use my good ol’ Gregory. I’ve hiked the TMB, W circuit, AT and countless other trips and it’s just more comfortable. Frankly, IMO, any benefit from ultra light backpacks in terms of endurance could be mitigated through training. Again, my opinion, don’t freak out ultra light folks.
So great to hear someone validate my thinking exactly. I started backpacking decades ago with heavy everything. Shifted to lighter and lighter over the years and at now almost 50, I'm back to selecting comfort at the slight penalty of weight. I also have a Mystery Ranch (AKA Dana) that weighs 6 pounds. I also have the Durston. I also do not skimp on a comfortably night sleeping with pads and bags. I bring a 1 pound chair and watch in my own comfort my buddies squirm to get comfortable eating dinner on their closed cell foam. Because these essentials are really what keep me rested and comfortable and walking the miles. I shave weight exactly as you have promoted... and never where it matters most
We hear so much talk geared toward through hiking where the goal is to get base weight down to some ridiculous single digit number that I'm glad to hear someone talk about being ok with heavier, but more comfortable options. Besides the enormous cost of cuban fiber and 900 fill quilts and $280 sleeping pads there are products us casual backpackers can use for 3-4 night, 15-25 mile outings that don't break the bank. Your advice about buying the pack last is such sage wisdom.
I’m impressed ANYTHING I said to you was good advice!
I loved your pop up! 😍 🌿 🙆🏻♀️
I’m an x French Foreign Legionnaire. I’m currently ruck marching 27,000km in pioneering ultra distance rucking. I ruck with a dry weight of 55-60lbs and depending on food and water I can be over 80lbs. I can tell you that yes weight absolutely matters !!!!!! Your distance and speed is completely determined on the amount of weight you carry. Always pack for the worst situations possible. Happy rucking !
anyone in the military is fully aware that weight matters. a lot. but these people aren't in life or death tactical scenarios. they aren't carrying heavy belts of ammunition and plate carriers, etc. when they say weight doesn't matter, they mean it in the civilian sense, they're not contemplating carrying 110lbs of weight on a 25 mile movement.
Did you even watch the video?
Very appreciated input on a topic that tends to be very polarized (”UL or non-UL?”) Like some previous comments, both types of backpacks can have a purpose. I have a GG G4-20 and a Fjallraven Singi 48, G4-20 weighs around 900 grams and the Singi 48 around 2,6 kg. The GG has by far the best shoulder traps of the many packs I have tried, but the Fjallraven pack can be very finetuned to your back and has a rock-solid frame if you are carrying heavy loads. I actually bought HMG Junction 55 for an upcoming thru hike in Sweden this summer, so far haven’t really tested it out yet.
I couldn’t agree more!! I I’m not comfortable, both hiking and sleeping, my whole trip is miserable.
I once took several women backpacking. They kept giving me stuff to carry for them. I ended up with 95 lb. In this case, weight does matter.
I am >50 and grew up with the old school canvas EVERYTHING. When i started backpacking again it was on rather steep mountain trails using regular weight gear. Lets say i learned the hard way and although there may be something to be said for not going ultralight on everything weight is still VERY important and i would consider a 2.5 -3kg backpack as crazy heavy. If you're still doing this past the next decade i promise you'll change your tune on this and no amount of sacrificing weight for "comfort" will help. In tough conditions, especially if you have old injuries low weigth IS comfort.
Strong disagree. I'm 47 and a lifelong martial artist. I have a ton of injuries, including back and neck problems, a bad left knee, a bad left ankle. Hell my whole left side is basically fucked. My Mystery Ranch carries so much better I'd rather carry 60 lbs in that pack than 30 lbs in an ultralight pack. I've tried almost every pack on the market with weight in them, and mystery ranch is absolutely worth the extra few pounds.
@@llyshon good for you. It sounds like you're conditioned to handle it but even you may find this could change over the next 10 years. I hope it continues to work for you but from my experience, if you can go as close to ultralight without sacrificing too much durability it's certainly become my way to go and i imagine, many others. My ZP Arc Haul has been great for me, especially in the awkard steep mountain climbs.
@@ozedude7082I love the ultra light stuff and use it. I just don't like how it's pushed as "the right way". There's no right way to backpack. There's just the way that works for you, and for your task. If you found a pack thay works for you, then awesome ! Mystery ranch works well for me and for the loads I need to carry.
The lightness of the total pack IS the comfort. The HMG designs are literally 15 years old and it shows. Compare a mystery Ranch to a KS Omega with an anatomic belt.
I totally agree with you. I am in my mid 30s and started backpacking when I was 9 years old. In my Teens we proudly carried 30+kg backpacks. We took the super long maglite flashlights and thick hemp ropes for setting up camp. Nowadays I consider weight a lot, when I go backpacking. Not only do I enjoy my trips a lot more, when I carry less weight, but also my joints and back thank me for it.
But there are a few things that I don't save weight on: The backpack, the shoes, and my food. I will never exchange tasty, filling, comfortable and cheap food with those super expensive backpacking meals.
So true about buying a backpack. I'm a comfort gear person and my first 45 L pack was way too small for my stuff so I now have a 70 L lol
Hehe here the other way around. I bought 75L first, now happy with 38L. Hike you own hike happening in this thread.
😂I have a 15yr old Kelty very comfy womens 81L
Bought it first then never backpacked but kayaked & car camped. Now wanting to backpack & getting my equipment but saving backpack for last & just might use it. It’s great 5 pounds but if I take the brain off & use as a waist pack I don’t look do funny w/ my big comfy pack.
Eric, i think backpacking gear is so personal. Its time everyone understands that.
I'm a UL backpacker. With my back problems and at my age, i couldn't backpack if it wasn't for Ultralight. Im so thankful for companies that are conscious about it so there is ultralight gear available for those who prefer it.
We should stop bickering at each other about something that's so personal.
Anyways, i love your channel. Even though we have different preferences for gear ❤❤❤😊😊😊!!
I think both sides need to be equally acknowledged and represented.
For most people starting out, getting more general brands (like REI) that focuses more on comfort than weight whilst being relatively affordable is great. Once they have gotten their gear, unless something breaks or they HATE IT, the should stick with what they have.
As they hike more, they should make a list of what they brought on every trail and put them in 3 categories: Always used, sometimes used, never used (or once/twice). If you have clothing you never wore, or only once in 3/4 days then you should remove those items and go for you next hike. The goal here is to remove items you already have and dial in your gear until you basically can't take anything away or else it would make your trips less safe.
At this point, you should look at your gear and see if there are any pieces of equipment that you want to upgrade and get lighter (my first pick would be freestanding tent -> trekking pole tent, then sleeping pad).
The problem with most gear videos on YT, is that they are focused towards the UL market, which isn't bad but also doesn't represent majority of backpackers - I'd say most backpackers just want to get out on the trail and be comfortable and safe and would rather carry more than be less comfortable and carry less. HOWEVER, if this was the only way of thinking, it would also make it difficult for others to get into backpacking, because some people NEED a lower weight in order to be comfortable, so rather than heavy but more comfortable=comfort, it becomes lighter but less comfortable=comfort.
At the end of the day, I think we all just want to be out there and should support everyone to get on trail and to encourage them to use the method that gets them out there the most whilst also being safe.
I seem to find the channels that are more sensible and talk about budget gear and figuring out what works for you.
I’ve read and watched enough that I believe that the pack being comfortable and dispersing the weight properly is more important than the weight. I learned that a bit the hard way. Luckily without spending too much money in the interim.
I had a lighter pack during one trip and I was SO uncomfortable. Then, same gear, but heavier pack and I felt great. I’m sure I could find a lighter pack that is comfortable, but right now, I don’t need to. I believe that with the right pack we can carry more weight than we expect.
I am all about enjoying backpacking, less pain and more comfort can weigh more but it's well worth it in my book. Thanks for the great tips on where it's easiest to save weight Eric!
THANK YOU!! I'm a new backpacker and have absolutely fallen in love with this hobby. I have a pack that I love and it's so comfortable (weighs almost 5 lbs), but I have found myself looking at UL backpacks as a way to save weight for longer trips I want to take. This video came at exactly the right time for me! So far all my trips have been comfortable, I've gotten a good night's sleep, and I'm having FUN! I'm going to take your advice and not change what's not broken.
If you are a new backpacker, don't fall into the trap of UL YET. If you want to lighten your load, bring less stuff.
After you finish every hike, take a note of what you used *all the time*, what you used *some* of the time and what you used *never (or once/twice)*.
Then remove the stuff you never used (this is more to do with clothing - obviously if you didn't use your first aid kit or PLB you would still bring it with you) and then do another hike with the same process. Eventually you will lighten your load and be able to figure out what you do and don't use. One you get to this point, this is where I'd go looking at gear to lighten the load
@@bananarama3624this is excellent advice
I couldn't agree more. I'm a hunter and I like to hike through the spring and summer so I just use my hunting pack for hiking. Mystery Ranch Blackjack which weighs in at about 8 pounds bone dry and empty... Never worn a more comfortable backpack and I won't be trading it in for anything unless it falls apart which is also unlikely. Great video Eric.
@@connyconiglione Unfortunately Not :(
Radix review soon? 🤞
Amen!
I have been backpacking here in Norway since the 80's, in the forrest and our mountians all year around. Up to last year I have sworn to backpacks from Berghaus. First the AB Expedition and last the Cyclops Vulcan, excellent packs built to last. But last year I watched your breif of the Bridger 65 and I knew that I had to get one, and got one I did. To my pleasure it turned out that you were so right. The Bridger 65 is the most comfertable pack I have ever owned. Now at 56 I still go the distanse, maybe not as fast as earlier but in much greater comfort. That comfort is what helps me still carry a decent load.
By the way, the AB and Vulcan I still have. Jems like that is for keeps.
I totally agree with you. I tell people to figure out their sleep system and tent and then figure out the size backpack they’ll need. From there a pack needs to feel comfortable. As an example I know you have said you’re not a fan of Osprey and yet that brand ALWAYS fits my body while other brands do not. It’s about budget and fit/size needs. This was a good video.
I agree. Comfort on the trail is a must. I really only have ruck Marches and weekend hiking hunting and camping trips for experience. Sometimes carrying packs that weigh 55+lb. Or much lighter.
I just bought Bridger 65 and 45 because of your videos. Will be using for backcountry fly fishing trips.
Thanks so much for this video! I've met a lot of people who ask me for advice in cutting weight on the trail. Almost everybody is buying the most UL backpack (first) available while they don't think about comfort and how much they can actually bring along with them on their first hikes. It's kinda hard to convince them that their backpacks is one of the last (in my opinion) things they should be worried about when they are going out on their multi day hikes. There are so many other things where hikers can cut weight without losing comfort. I'll definitely refer them to your vid if I get these questions again!
I agree 100%. Because of you, I bought a Mystery Ranch pack. This is now my favorite pack out of the 15 I own. No more soar shoulders. There are times I forgot that I have a pack on. That is how comfortable my Coulee pack is to me.
Thank you! I'm reconsidering my 2lb Xpac. This video made me realize that my current bag is actually not comfortable at all and I think it shows at the end of the day of a long hike
I thru-hiked the AT with a 36L gossamer gear pack with ~9lbs base weight. On each of my 4 subsequent thru-hikes, I carried more in a larger pack. It's good to be light weight, but there's a clear point of diminishing returns, under which you're unnecessarily trading ounces for comfort and durability. And comfort isn't just cushy. That 36L pack I used on the AT caused horrible pack rash all over my back, since I ditched the hip belt. Sometimes, less isn't more, it's just less.
Thanks for making that point. On my trips I need a certain amount of comfort in the backcountry. Going too light means entering "survival mode" and taking a lot of the fun out of it for me. Comfortably hauling my stuff around and getting a good nights sleep besides good shoes are the things I won't compromise either. 25x77 inch inflatable sleeping pad, pillows and a nice big quilt did wonders in my sleep quality - I don't care that it weighs extra if I can nearly get the feeling of sleeping in my cozy bed at home.
When I started out I also had a 5+ pound backpack (Savotta Jäkääri L - which I still own but use for more demanding terrain or in winter for its abrasion resistance) but now have landed at a really lightweight 45 + 10 liter pack for my longer treks that can comfortably haul up to 35 pounds if needed - which is the total weight I usually end up with at the start - with no diminishment in carrying comfort.
Huge shout out for the guys at Lundhags (a company which was not even on my radar when shopping for a new backpack) on their creation of the Padje light 45... Man that thing is so comfortable, sturdy but so light I did not believe that that might even be possible.
Dialing in YOUR equipment is a process. But don't let others tell you what you can or can't do on your trip.
Amen to that! Now having learned to streamline some of my stuff to lighten the load my pack has to be comfortable and always has been! Ultralight sounds cool but I like comfort!
My backpacking days are behind me now. My first 25 years (1975 thru 1999) were with a 35-40 lb pack weight. My final 10 years (2000 thru 2009) were with ultralight (NOT ultra expensive) gear. Well chosen ultralight worked great for my aging body. I was out from 3 to 5 days and never carried more than 20 lbs of pack weight. Everyone has their preferences, of course, but ultralight worked well for my needs and kept me in the backcountry for a few extra years.
Thank you Eric, you touched on so many important items. Pack comfort trumps weight, look elsewhere to lighten your load without sacrificing comfort and safety. Stove and cook system, water and filtration, tent, clothing. Next trip look at what you took that you didn't use or could have left behind that added unnecessary weight. A comfortable pack and a comfortable sleep system are vital.
Here I am winter camping in layered quilts, HMG pack and X-mid in Alaska lol. I love my Nalgenes, and you can always go with the HDPE version of the bottles at half the weight of a traditional Nalgene, too. The main reason I love my HMG pack is that I can use it year round in the snow and rain due to the materials. I would love to see a pack that combines the best of both worlds - designed by a cottage brand like Durston, but with all of the comfort features of a Mystery Ranch or Osprey pack.
Same here: +35kg/ 85ltr pack 43 years young. Been a boy-scout, and military and carried lots of heavy stuff. Nowadays I carry 18kg (above 2800 meter increases gradually) fluctuates per 6 days intervals. 65ltr Lowe Alpine traditionnel pack does the job. Ultra light is not strong - strong is not light. Compromise and leave gimmicks and hipe. Don’t cut weight in survival/ sleep and carrying kit. Cut weight in food, electronics, clothing, shelter. Fitting kit correctly and be allround strong; so to carry whats needed. It’s all in the mind.
I used to use a traditional pack with heavier base weight and the place I felt it hurt most at the end of the day was my knees. I am not necessarily more comfortable around the pack pressure points using sub-2pound packs but I can definitely move faster and put in more distance without feeling it so much. It's also much easier up steep mountain climbs. My friends who still use traditional packs are usually very sore at the end of long days. That's why pack weight does matter, as well as comfort.
I'm with you Eric! I have tried several other lighter weight backpacks, and I always go back to my Osprey Aether 70. Even though I could never put enough gear in it to completely fill it, that thing just carries the weight so much more comfortably! Great Video!
I have an Aether 70 as well. It is an absolute Cadillac compared to my Zpacks Arc Haul. The Aether is so more comfortable.
Good advice, mine is Deuter aircontact 4lbs, rei flash 55 2lb area,,,,no comparison, Deuter just fits me,,,,,big difference the pack is how you get there, get one that fits and feels good ignore the weight. Love the deuter and collegiate loop tested, good vid
I'm 47 and have been backpacking since I was 10. I used to care a lot about pack weight. I then did 3 goruck toughs. I now no longer care, and pack whatever I want. I love my mystery ranch packs. BEST PACKS EVER. The fit, durability and comfort is worth a few extra lbs.
The last time I took my kids out backpacking I carried a lot of extra fun stuff for them including marshmallows hersheys and graham crackers, a big tarp in case it rained, a camp chair, cards, etc. My pack weighed 70ish lbs and was quite comfortable. We rocked out 7-8 miles a day, no problem. More importantly... they had a great time.
I do try to pack light, but i'll add creature comforts and I never skimp on things like sleeping comfort. If you get fit and strong and you use a good pack, you won't need to be obsessed with ultralight. Don't get me wrong, I think the gear is cool and lighter is better. I'm also glad ultralight is an option for people with health issues or physical limitations. I just think the community is too obsessed with it.
Ive done it all. From 60 pound packs in the 80s and 90s, to 15 pound packs in the current era. And your assessment of pack weight in your video is spot on. Thanks for having the courage to share.
I must admit I am seeking an ultra light backpack for weight, but I also strain on my back is important to me. I tried a MLD Exodus, extremely light, and very comfortable up to 25lbs. However, for 50 mile or week long or longer trips, it is impossible to stay under 25lbs, especially with food carries. My most comfortable pack with my back issues was AARN! He has an innovative design that looks funky but works incredibly well by balancing the load weight on the hip in both the back & the front. Given that, and trying to shed weight, I tried other packs as well, but diy'd the ability to keep my front balance packs. I never sold the AARN, because it was so comfortable, but I do with they would incorporate some of the features that I've come to love on the lighter innovative packs like LiteAF, MLD, Zpacks & now my favorite, Durston. Between the Durston and the AARN, both are very comfortable because of how the frame puts all the weight on the hips, resulting in minimal if any back or shoulder strain. Thanks for putting this video out, as I am still juggling between just going back to the AARN pack as the front balance packs sit so well on their hip belt.
The Bridger series of packs from Mystery Ranch are such a secret weapon and they are so slept on. Such a good pack design.
Appreciate this video Eric! will you be doing a review or comparison of the new radix 57? curious of what you think of it compared to the bridger 65. Thanks again!
I backpack with a Lowe Netherworld that comes in at about 8 1/2 lbs. Because it is so comfortable and adjustable for me.
I do pay attention to keep my other items weight down. It does make a huge difference caring 40 lbs opposed to 60 lbs starting out.
I will usually carry nearing 10 lbs of freeze dried foods for 5 days backpacking. This makes my base weight backpack items are about 30 lbs.
I have seen backpackers caring can goods up the very steep trail out of Yosemite valley gaining over 3,000 feet in less than 5 miles to the upper rim at over 7,000 feet.
I use a titanium 750 ml pot for heating water for cooking, coffee, and tea. I use one big titanium spoon for all cooking and drinks.
Once you are out 10 miles from the trailhead it can be too late to dump stuff to lighten your pack.
Your joints, feet, and body have to work so much harder caring 20 to 30 lbs extra weight over 30 lbs.
Caring over 60 lbs for 15 to 20 miles is very hard on your body.
You do not have to take it all with you. Weigh it out before you put a backpack over 40 lbs on your back.
The most comfortable bag i have ever used was the the old Osprey Exos 48L. Absolutely love that balance of comfort and lightness.
I’m 64, and have been backpacking since Boy scouts in the early 70’s and I couldn’t agree more On the pack Eric. I also shun ultra light hiking shoes. On hikes of any distance, I get more support, and comfort from my mid height boots.
Completely agree. Have done multiple week long, packrafting, backountry trips with 50+ lbs. And the Kuiu Pro Lt 7000 is the best pack I've ever worn. Extremely comfortable, and handles the weight flawlessly. While my friends, with their UL Osprey, zpack and hyperlite packs look like they're suffering.
Dude, totally agree. The old Dana packs were so overbuilt so going from 7+ to maybe 4+ makes sense. But any less doesn't really sense. I was still using my terraplane till last year when I realiser the straps were just worn out. But it carried 65lbs well. I didn't use this for through hikes. Base camp type stuff. Hike in, set up camp, hike to peaks /destinations from camp, hike out. For through hikes where I break camp every day is I pack lighter, take less.
Excellent! Thank you. Makes a lot of sense.
I’m 52 and I’m on a quest to get stronger and lose my weight so I can have the equipment I want that makes my time out there comfortable and worth while. Especially in the winter and it’s more unstable variables and extras that are necessary. I’d rather be stronger than ditch gear. It’s all about people’s personal balance anyway
You've echoed one of my own observations about pack choice. My absolute best experiences have been with my three different capacities Dana Design packs (aka Mystery Ranch, same founders). As you note, the fit and distribution of the weight is something that everyone should experience, it's that noticeable. Yet, those packs weigh more than an ultralight style. During my six year stint in mountain wilderness search and rescue over a decade ago, I exclusively used the Dana Design packs, usually carrying 50lbs (personal and SAR gear). Over the last few years I've been pursuing pack weight reduction aggressively, most recently using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa 60 (60 liters) pack that weighs only 2 lbs, loaded up to 40 lbs for longer trips. That ultralight pack is not comfortable at all when weighted, due to a weaker internal and external support system. Yet the total pack weight is less than the total weight I've carried comfortably with the Dana packs. THAT, I think, is your point and something I'm going to re-evaluate. After intense hikes and outings with the Mariposa, I feel destroyed and achy. So, I'm in agreement with you in principle, and am going to consider going back to my awesome Dana packs. Thanks for the nudge. It's a bit counterintuitive to say the least. 👍
Mate, I've climbed and backpackd since I was a kid in the UK in the early 1980s.
I've since climbed all over the UK, the European Alps, Patagonia, the US and Canada including Baffin Island and winter seasons in Alaska, many trips to the Himalaya including virgin peaks upto just over 7500m. I think it's fair to say that I've been about a bit and, you know what, this is probably the first time I've heard anybody talking any scene about pack weight on UA-cam.
There are obviously some exceptions, but as a broad rule, to me, ultralight just means making do with shit, inferior, kit.
When you're pushing your limits, and possibly pushing your luck, light might have an advantage, but what I really want is bombproof reliability.
I've been backpacking and mountaineering for 50 years, and have used packs from 30L to 105L capacity, carrying loads from 15 lbs to 85 lbs. Old external-frame packs, internal frame packs, and frameless packs. It's great to have the ability to do numerous types of trips with different priorities and agendas, whether trail running and 'fast-packing' with a bivy bag instead of a tent for a weekend, loading up for a week of enjoying nature and photography at a slow pace while cooking actual fresh food meals and sitting in a chair by the campfire with a flask of whatever, or humping winter mountaineering gear and a 13 lb tent up some summit in subzero temps. It's all good, and each has its own type of pain and pleasure :)
My Kelty Tioga external frame pack that I used through most of the 90's is still the most comfortable and breathable pack I ever wore. I also remember that the going pack weight target was around 50 lbs for 5 days in summer and a nebulous "more than 50 lbs" if you're hiking in the winter. I don't remember it stopping anyone. Having said that, my Trangia 27 cook system rarely sees use anymore because my Pocket Rocket is so much better.
I recently bought a new Tioga. It’s a fantastic pack!! I hope to get many more good years out of it.
Unless they dropped the build quality, I'm sure you will. Mine died from a combination of sun damage on the nylon and general neglect and overuse. @@Zeppelinfaktor
If you win the lottery I have never had a more comfortable backpack than the Osprey Men's UNLTD AntiGravity 64. It made carrying 40 -45lbs through Iceland so comfortable. Love the adjustability to fit correctly and comes in a couple sizes. Didn’t compromise on water, sleeping comfort, clothes or food. Best longer backcountry pack and it weights about 5.5 lbs to start.
I agree with every one of your points. I hiked the Colorado Trail this last summer, and only came across a few ultralight hikers. Everyone else had heavier gear and they all did fine and were having a good time. Within reason you really get acclimated to your pack weight as long as your pack is able to carry the load
Thanks for the video Eric! I’ve switched from smart water bottles to the 1-2 48oz “ultra light” Nalgene
Also have a couple of the 32oz ones.
There are lots of valid points here about pairing appropriate equipment together. But why wrap it in a message of “My way is more fun that other ways”? I have a completely comfortable (for me) ultralight kit. I have so much fun. I also have a second pack that carries heavier loads when I’m on a different kind of trip with more luxury items. I have fun with it, too!
Totally agree! Thanks.
I'm 56 years old and have osteoarthritis in my spine, so the past 4 or 5 years I've been getting lower and lower in my pack base weight, and pack weight, but I by no means an ultra-light backpacker! 2 reasons there, cost, and comfort.
I started backpacking in the 1990s. My first backpacking tent weighed 7 POUNDS! 😂 It finally died , I think, in 2019. I'd been using it for a car camping tent for a few years, but the seams finally gave out, and there wasn't much point to trying to seam seal it again.
I had a framed backpack, but I didn't like the way it carried, and the frame got in the way of stuffing gear in. So I bought a Durston DD40, and it works fairly well with even my shoulder season gear. But I had to do an 8 day food carry one trip and couldn't mash it all in so had to carry a few days worth of food in a stuffable front pack.
Then last year I got a dog and she can't carry all of her in gear, so I got a Durston Kakwa 55, and it seems to work well for all of my stuff, plus the dog's, and our food. I was only able to get out for one long weekend trip with it, tho, so we'll see for longer trips.
I do plan to hike the AT when I retire, (2028!) and expect the arthritis isn't going to go away, so I may have to lighten my pack weight a bit, but I'm not likely to go ultra-light on the pack itself. I need at least some structure in a light frame, and the Durston packs are good at that.
Oh, and maybe you could try the CNOC collapsible 1 litre bottles instead of Smart water bottles. They're healthier for you and the planet 😊
Completely agree Eric! I just bought a Mystery Ranch Terraframe 65 and I can’t wait to get out with it! I used my REI flash 55 on a 5 day trip last year maxing it out at about 35lbs and it was WAY less comfortable than it is with lighter loads.
Gotta pick the right pack for the task at hand. None of the hardcore UL packs will carry a really heavy load. They were not designed to. We all gotta decide how much we are willing to sacrifice (money, comfort, research time) to get to our goal weight. Once we know "what" we are carrying, then we can better work out how best to carry it.
My evolution of “ultralight” started at about a 45lb baseweight. I found my old packboard not long ago - it was 7-1/2 pounds without the straps. My “ultralight” tent from the same era had a pack-weight of just under 8 pounds.