Spoke to a mechanic at my local RV shop. He was saying when COVID hit the demand for trailers and RVs skyrocketed. The manufacturers pumped out so many trailers but with shitty quality materials. Now some people can't sell their trailers because they have degraded in value or the trailers are breaking down. So now nobody wants to buy one on top of this inflation
I bought a used 2018 winnebago Vista MH last year. Fantastic inspection, perfect running condition, immaculate interior, and only 18k miles. It is MUCH better than any winnebago product from 2020 onward, by a mile. I keep getting calls from the dealer to buy it back; and now have the feeling it is because consumers have woken up to the fact that COVID COACHES are notoriously poor in quality and carry no resale value. the Industry made their bed (using no quality control), and now must sleep in it (even though it is falling to pieces)!
Sadly I'm hearing from Liz Amazing is that she said since the housing bubble in 2008 that's when companies started really using cheap stuff. So she seems to recommend older RVs prior, RV inspector, or she had like 5 manufactures that aren't too bad like ATC. Mostly was recommendations on travel trailers instead of 5th wheels. But it just seems like the way is to get an older RV gut it and basically make your own. I do like the styling of the new 5th wheels but crap materials. I want more cabinets than I want the little bunk areas or all these couches. Just sad that in CA where so much homelessness that they now want to get rid of them. I'm like there's a few homeless vets that live in a RV from the mid 90s. Housing is already challenging, cars are also becoming issues of how tall, how long you can be. So the pockets where you can park and not disturb homeowners is getting slimmer. Especially with all the encampments that brings on so much more criminal acts. So I hope the RV industry definitely changes for the better as this may be the last option for people. I started having an affinity to RV when I was living in my car and still had my corporate job to get into. I always wished space to at least sit up in bed or being able to dress without laying down.
The problem with the RV market is that the prices are high and the quality has dropped to junk since I first got involved back in the late 1960’s. A lot of great builders have been driven out of the market and what has replaced most of them is overpriced junk!
Guys, I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL, and I love your passion and concern. As an OLD RV’R, I can understand the frustration folks have. I’ve commented before, 40 years of RV ownership, and yes, I’ve seen declines in quality. But I’ve seen quality decline in my cars, my trucks, the parts at Home Depot, the junk on Amazon, the quality of home construction, home appliances and list goes on. I saw the auto industry make some horrible cars in the late 70’s and 80’s. My 84 Cadillac’s engine burned out at 26,000 miles due to a design flaw. Cadillac didn’t go away. The RV industry isn’t going away, and junk motorhomes ( I can name a few) have been around for 20 years. Motorhomes have always been high dollar , high maintenance items, just worse now but good products can still be found. My advice to ANYONE considering buying an RV of ANY TYPE: do lots of homework, don’t get fooled by glitz, be reasonable in your expectations, consider used between 2014 ad 2019, do MORE RESEARCH, and always get an RV INSPECTION from a reputable source. Keep the Faith. Life’s good.
We have had two motorhomes-one a Thor Aria and now a 2023 Newmar Dutch Star ⭐️-That DS has had way more problems then the Thor -BIG PROBLEMS-CONSTANT PROBLEMS-They never end on this DS -We won’t ever buy another RV-We just plan to TRY and keep this DS going but if it doesn’t go anymore or we can’t go anymore then we are done -We do enjoy using the motorhome but it is NOT a cheap way to travel or cheap to own -The quality is abominable-No quality control and they don’t even try -Everything is laid at the dealership’s feet and they simply can’t keep up with it -we are over it -The shine is gone 🤷♀️⭐️🇺🇸
If the State of Indiana refuses to regulate the industry, then you will get nothing but BS from the manufacturers. They have no intention of decreasing their profits to build quality, and will only do so if the State and Federal government tells them they have to. This has been proven year after year since wholesale deregulation in the 1980's.
Another fine presentation. Thank you for this. Your statement that a well built quality rv will lead to brand loyalty and repeat customers got me thinking. More accurately it will lead to a stellar reputation that, on its own, will generate more sales.
Two things. Thanks for the update. I heard about the zero emission from Cali and I believe if I’m not mistaken Newmar or another manufacturer is pulling out of that state. What does CA, OR, WA have in common? Well I’ll let you think on that. Second. We sold our Winnebago Cambria (2015) class C gas. Didn’t take us that long to sell. What did we replace it with? We bought a 2020 Renegade Valencia Super C. Yes, a 2020. Why we went with a Super C? HP and torque not to mention the quality of Renegade when looking at their competitors was top notch. In fact, it was just a good quality as our former Winnebago, 10x better. And the price and hardly used! 5600 miles only!! The previous owner who had passed away and the wife put it on the market. When I say it was hardly used,I mean it literally. About a week ago prior to finding this gem we went to La Mesa RV show in Tucson. We wanted to look at the Entegra Esteem. O.M.G what a joke. It’s not worth the price. Cheap is an understatement. One thing I noticed was when walking inside and between the shower and bathroom you can feel the vinyl floor was not glued correctly. We’re happy with our Renegade and was easy to drive. In our part of the country we have mountain passes and towing our Ford explorer this RV will do the job. I will say we did run into two issues, the DEF header went out on us. Luckily traveling back from picking it up we ended up at a freightliner shop in Liberal KS. Nicest and friendly people. The repair was covered under Freightliners recall. 😊 the second issue was the automatic transfer switch was bad when connected to shore power. We easily fixed it ourselves and replaced it with a new ATS. Other than those 2 issues I’m happy with our purchase. I will make a video walking through our RV. I’ll post the in next video as a link. Stay tuned.
What CA and WA both have in common are rational environmental policies, educated, high income residents, and a lack of trumpy flyover country lower IQ types.
We have been RV’s for 55 years. We have owned numerous rvs. One thing they all have in common is poor quality, extremely slow repairs, extremly high repair bills. We have had ten tire blowouts and we run top of the line tyres. Until we begin t9 hold the rv industry to a higher standard nothing will be accomplished. We need to start with a nation wide lemon law and strong consumer rights. Hold the rv industry to start issuing recalls. They will putout a better product. They saythey have quality control but they really don’t.
I appreciate your analysis on the industry. I had a late "covid coach" (a 2022 Gulf Stream) and ended up doing a ton of cosmetic improvements and simple repairs on my own. Was obvious it had been slapped together, even the hot water heater had been left unplugged. I traded it in for a molded fiberglass trailer but took a tremendous loss.
I think it is important to note that during a market adjustment (after a period of when demand has been hyper accelerated) the natural reaction, isn't just to go back to the production levels of pre-pandemic. The market reaction would be pretty similar to what we are seeing. It is like a rubber band that has to snap back the other direction before things reach equilibrium. There are some additional factors that are contributing to the slow down - like buyers being tied to a purchase with a higher debt than value (due to price hikes during the pandemic) - thus disrupting the normal buy/sell/trade cycle from the consumer side, and impacting the dealerships. Also, it is important to mention that prior to the pandemic, the industry was already poised for a decline. There were a series of RVIA reports from 2019 that showed a trend toward a significant decrease in shipments. I don't know that a total industry meltdown will result, but I do think there is a massive market adjustment on the horizon.
Prices are way to high, quality is terrible, dealer service is pathetic, the one big dealer is as corrupt as they come; why pay big bucks for a rolling piece of shit that 2 years later is worth less than half what you paid for it
I dont know if I can say its cheap or not but I have a 97 Prevost. No slides. Metal roof. No DEF. No EGR. It does not break down much at all. Keep it simple and it keeps it affordable. Excellent build quality. These frames are made to last a million miles carrying 56 people across the country at highway speeds.
@@jamesgentry13 Compared to new RVs I think much cheaper on top of the fact your purchase price on a good used Prevost is hundreds of thousands cheaper than a new equivalent Newmar or similar large class A.
The problem with the RV Industry cross multiple areas: 1) Poor quality RV's coming out since 2020. 2) Getting service for your RV is challenging. Can take months to get in, and then more months for them to order parts and actually fix it. Fixes go wrong. 3) RV Park's require 6+ months advanced planning to get in 4) RV Park rates are unrealistically high 5) Storage challenge for many people (HOA regulations, high remote storage costs) 6) People have 2 or 3 weeks of vacation a year, making the ROI of RV ownership extremely expensive in comparison to standard hotel rates 7) RV travel beyond about 800 miles from your home require extended, long trips, which are challenging to escape your employer / business to take that kind of time.
Our pleasure. There's is lots of work on behalf of the RVIA to get CA to exclude RVs (and I think as of Friday there may have been some sort of handshake agreement for change)
Great job. I agree 100% on your comments around quality and price. Pretty basic but seems like the manufacturers are oblivious. Be careful , operational inefficiency is code word for to many people. This is only gonna get worse, you can’t run a business like Winnebago loosing 29M a qtr for long.
Good point on operational inefficiency and they've already had small lay-off....maybe more to come? We just don't understand how these manufacturers are completely missing the point.
Awesome video! We love you back! We just purchased our 3rd RV. We first started with a pull behind trailer. We upgraded to a 5th wheel in 2021 because we decided we needed more space. When we purchased the first 5th wheel, we changed dealerships because of the way we were treated after sales and service! We really enjoyed that 5th wheel camper until we found another one in May of this year. We loved the floor plan in this one a lot better so we finally pulled the trigger last month and purchased it. You are so correct, the industry NEEDS to address quality. This new 5th wheel was a step up for us and had a ton of stuff we were looking for, but the quality of workmanship is just not there! The brakes did not work, the backup camera wiring has a short, the black tank flush system is blocked. Now I have to say the service department at the dealership is awesome! They are doing everything they can to fix all the issues! Thanks again for your video!
Your story is echoed by many who have purchased RVs in the past few years. Glad you have a good dealership helping to resolve your many issues. Something has to change.
Honey, you are SO RIGHT!! We bought a brand new 21 Alliance Valor 40V13. The kitchen, livingroom, and bathroom floor has had to be replaced due to a manufacturer mistake. The roof membrane was literally bubbled up and torn in spots. Our fault because we were too old to climb on top of the RV. Our Onan generator worked for 3 hours. We had an Onan Tech come out to check it. The generator ran just fine. The fuel line is not getting the fuel to the generator. Patio doors fall off, glass in the doors drop at odd times. That's just a few of the trouble we've had. They promise the moon and deliver a moon pie!!!
I absolutely agree with your assessment of the poor quality of most RV’s. But I think the recent decline in sales is the natural effect after the pandemic bubble.
I decided after a year of research not to enter the market. Seems everyone has problems with RVs and there are no lemon laws. Its not worth creating a money pit for myself. Not worth it. They look cool and look fun but the amount of problems that will happen outweight the investment. And this doesn't count the increasing fuel cost.
We are on our forth RV. RVs are basically mobile homes that experience 4.0 earthquakes every time you drive them. But there is nothing to compare with RVing. A cabin can't change its location and a sleeping bag and tent are for children. Go into it with a good toolbox and a sense of humor and you'll love it.
For what it’s worth I thought I’d give you a perspective on used RV sales in Oklahoma from a small family owned operation. I can tell you as of December of this year fifth will sells and bumper pull travel trailers have dropped to little to nothing anything fifth wheel, travel, trailer, or motorhome with bunkbeds Absolutely dead market pretty easy to figure out why a lot of what you say is right on track. The average family vacationer, cannot afford an RV in this economy but as a small dealer we have to figure out what’s best for us and I will tell you that 26 foot and smaller class c motorhomes sales have been off the charts even in this economy most people ask me why it’s a very simple answer like myself and older people we realize time is more important than our money and a smaller class c Motorhome is what is desirable so that market has done very well even in a slow economy, but there is hope now that Trump will be the new president and putting lots of our fellow Americans to work oil filled pipeline welding that huge market will come back and help drive fifth wheel and trailer Sells I do see class a motorhomes or especially Diesel struggling for sometime. Hope this information helps. Thanks, Kevin.
We just bought a 2008 Fleetwood Terra. It had very low miles and I went over the whole RV and it is like new condition. We considered buying s newer unit but were warned against buying anything made after 2018 as the quality control was supposed to be utter trash. We got our new/used RV for a very good price and overall, I can see the difference in quality from that one to a newer unit. As far as California is concerned, there are plenty of other states to spend our money in.
It’s not only quality issues, which is a big one at that. It’s a combination of a horrible economy, higher interest rates, exuberant pricing, and buyer fatigue. This period we are in is a recession, end of story. Changing the definition of a recession doesn’t change the outcome. And no, the stock market does not alone say the economy is in a good position. Once the economy begins to ramp up again, people feel comfortable to spend money, interest rates drop a bit more and quality goes back up. You will see supply down and demand go up.
Our experience in the tow-able segment over several models points to poor quality during the build, poor quality checks at the dealers prior to customer walk-through inspections, poor after sale dealer after-sales-service, and exorbitant initial prices.
You just described ALL RV's manufactured in the NO REGULATION State of IN. Let the buyer beware (and in some cases be dead) of the crap coming out of that State by design!
Great video, and love you guys! I hate that politics have to come into this, but reality is that it does affect us. We have to be sensible about what we do, not only in leadership, but in our daily lives. Life is full of valleys and mountain peaks. It is my hope and prayer that we are going to be climbing towards the mountain peak again soon.
Do to the recent reviews of the RV industry and its lack of quality control and being able to schedule repairs I have decided definitely stay away from purchasing in the future. All I hear is the dealer won’t fix repairs because it the manufacture issue basically pointing fingers at each other. The warranties aren’t worth the paper it’s written on. No hard working person or retired person need these type of headaches .
I will keep my 2012 RV and 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 dually which have given me zero problems rather than buy new one’s of inferior quality. The RV manufacturers have zero quality control which is obvious by all the horror stories on the internet about new RV’s. Same for new trucks. Nothing is being built to the same quality as older RV’s and vehicles. And the price of new RV’s and trucks are outrageous. Good maintenance is all that’s needed on my part to keep my RV and truck in great working order, so I am out of the market until things improve drastically.
5:40 But that's what happened. A huge Covid19 boom in 2020 - 2021. A lot of people bought RVs...and a lot of them were not experienced with RVs. Once they could go back to flying and staying at hotel resorts, their interest in camping went away. Or they just weren't ready to handle the responsibility of dealing with black water/grey water. Or they just weren't ready to drive something so large...whatever. The pre-owned market flooded with used 2020-2021 units. There are a lot of 2-4-year-old units out there for sale, pennies on the dollar for what they originally sold for. Honestly, the best RV buys are getting into a 2017 - 2019 unit though. These were built better before the boom that caused a lot of new, inexperienced people to get hired and night/weekend shifts to be added at the factories.
I live in California. I remember before emissions restrictions. You couldn’t see Los Angeles due to the smog. We have to do something. Fossil fuels are killing us. I love to RV. I wish the companies had put more effort into clean emission vehicles. This has law was set years ago.
Excellent video... The only manufacturer I have seen who honestly has "Building a loyal customer base" in mind would be BRINKLEY towable rv's. Consumers feel the inflation crunch and less willing to buy. Those who are forced to sell their home to survive financially are down sizing. Many are down sizing to a towable rv. Before they downsize, they are researching manufacturers very carefully. I know I am... My wife and I have plans to buy a Brinkley very soon. We have seen too many brands rv's defective while being brand new. We've also seen many of those brands with defective rv's refuse to BACK THEIR PRODUCT the way they should. Brinkley is the only brand I've seen treating people right. Stay Awesome! < fist pump >
Greed killed the rv market. Will wait for a Tesla , or buy a quality used rv. Problem with used units are the prices due to more demand . Another option I am looking at is to buy a refurbished unit like a Winnebago Rialta from Pop Top Heaven. Even with upgrades , a great unit for less than half of the new cardboard clunkers
My 2021 Bounder 36F had major structural issues with the front left chassis and house. This caused (like so many others) the dashboard to bounce and squeak. To the point where the firewall was displaced. After 2 years dealing with REV and 2 trips to Elkhart. We just got it back and curious if it's actually fixed. Here's my question, with this being a well-known major issue. Why no class action lawsuit? Why is the RV industry held to a different standard?
@ctp8259 Some of the buyer's contracts state the buyer agrees to arbitration only. Not enough owners report issues to NHTSA. There have been lawsuits not sure of how many win, lose or settle. GD owners have successfully gotten the NTHSA to investigate frame flex. Things won't change until more owners take a stand. Liz Amazing is starting an advocacy group. We're really interested in seeing if it can effect change.
You are 100% right, i bought used because I did want all the problems a new rv have... cross this country all you hear job layoffs...2025 don't look any better right now with the cost of living
Ditto. Precovid the Winnebago Trevato was an entry level. Class b, with discount new for non lithium 59k, could get it out the door for under $80 k, now $125 k and up
It’s pretty simple. Older Gen X and boomers are the last generation that are gonna be able to afford these expensive RVs. At least the numbers that they used to sell. It’s getting more expensive out there and the quality is going down. People can’t even afford to buy houses now. It’s bad out there. This whole industry is gonna collape
It’s pretty simple. Older Gen X and boomers are the last generation that are gonna be able to afford these expensive RVs. At least the numbers that they used to sell. It’s getting more expensive out there and the quality is going down. People can’t even afford to buy houses now. It’s bad out there. This whole industry is gonna collapse
Appreciate the content - doesn't it feel like the story about the emperor who had no clothes on? Until you buy an RV for the first time - you really don't, like REALLY, understand how bad the quality, attention to detail and service availability are. I wish other content creators or more content creators would focus on the issues with owner lifecycle and experience vs. WHAT's NEW this year and parroting promotional material from the manufacturers. If people ask me about getting an RV - I have to say, stay away if you can, if not ... here's a ton of videos to watch. Again thanks for your candid, fair, passionate and entertaining video.
Mike Happe (As in Happy). He doesn't like Lisa and I too much these days, let alone Grand Design. There is a NHTSA investigation (date 10/9/24) against Winnebago and Grand Design for the 2017 - 2023 Solitudes and Momentums for frame failure that could effect as many as 55,877 5th wheels but there other lines have a lot of poor design, engineering, and build issues. They do not care about quality or their customers and I can prove it!
@@WestsontheMove it'll be interesting to see how the investigation plays out. Any insight on when the NHTSA plans to wrap it up? It's terribly wrong what they've been putting customers through.
@@AmpedtoGlamp There is a lot of behind the scenes if you are ever interested for information. NHTSA has been hushed lipped but I have been sending them information to work with, if they do. This is the Grand Design RV Major Issues account also.
i was just watching a discovery lxe on the used market someone had for sale for about 206k, some dealer snagged it from them and not even a week later they have it listed for 230k 🤣. these guys want a 24k profit for what? existing? i guarantee they did no maintenance or any upkeep to justify that pricing. guys are nuts.
It's because those huge house RVs put all us cheaper surviving practical trailer dwellers who got killed by the giant motorhomes with washers/ dryers, large screen tvs, dishwashers etc. All the comforts of a condo on wheels. The 250.00 a month parks utilities included rent shot up sky high once these giant RVs moved in and used the electricity of 5 travel trailers overnight us " practical" campers lost our homes and lives. Good I say, get the road hogs out! It's about time!!!😅 Giant RVs and buses ruined simple survival living by being greedy. Sorry folks. But I watched it happen!😢 I had a great life until the giant RVs mowed us over! Now I'm damned near homeless. Signed...single senior on a simple pension that should have been enough!!!! No one thought about us!
Because the are over a certain weight and don't meet California's new emissions requirements. It was originally meant for trucks but the way it was written ended up including RVs by default
I think the election of Donald Trump will help the RV industry. He is going to do everything he can to champion American manufacturing and RVs fall right under that category. Better days are coming, for sure.
More deregulation, which got us into the RV INdustry mess we are in today? Good luck with that. There is a sucker born every day, the RV Industry Model of Operation since the early 90's!
Give me a brand new small RV ,,donate ,,giveaway,,that will brighten up the bad publicity of take ,take,,, and no give give ,,, especially for all the money they have made ..
Overpriced! I was one of those potential consumers 2020/2021 waiting for price to drop. But it seems RVs are just as expensive😮. I hear horror stories quality and breaking down. The economy is not the problem because some industries have made out like a fat cat! Quality and Overpriced
What are your thoughts on the state of the industry, recent layoffs and the possible RV ban?
Spoke to a mechanic at my local RV shop. He was saying when COVID hit the demand for trailers and RVs skyrocketed. The manufacturers pumped out so many trailers but with shitty quality materials. Now some people can't sell their trailers because they have degraded in value or the trailers are breaking down. So now nobody wants to buy one on top of this inflation
@@Z3kyTw0 that's very true
I bought a used 2018 winnebago Vista MH last year. Fantastic inspection, perfect running condition, immaculate interior, and only 18k miles. It is MUCH better than any winnebago product from 2020 onward, by a mile. I keep getting calls from the dealer to buy it back; and now have the feeling it is because consumers have woken up to the fact that COVID COACHES are notoriously poor in quality and carry no resale value. the Industry made their bed (using no quality control), and now must sleep in it (even though it is falling to pieces)!
Sadly I'm hearing from Liz Amazing is that she said since the housing bubble in 2008 that's when companies started really using cheap stuff. So she seems to recommend older RVs prior, RV inspector, or she had like 5 manufactures that aren't too bad like ATC. Mostly was recommendations on travel trailers instead of 5th wheels. But it just seems like the way is to get an older RV gut it and basically make your own. I do like the styling of the new 5th wheels but crap materials. I want more cabinets than I want the little bunk areas or all these couches. Just sad that in CA where so much homelessness that they now want to get rid of them. I'm like there's a few homeless vets that live in a RV from the mid 90s. Housing is already challenging, cars are also becoming issues of how tall, how long you can be. So the pockets where you can park and not disturb homeowners is getting slimmer. Especially with all the encampments that brings on so much more criminal acts. So I hope the RV industry definitely changes for the better as this may be the last option for people. I started having an affinity to RV when I was living in my car and still had my corporate job to get into. I always wished space to at least sit up in bed or being able to dress without laying down.
Thank you! Simple as that...money driven with shitty build weak N cheap materials...high way robbery 🤦♀️😁
I was told 2020 trailers were actually made in 2019@@sedonars1
What a mess! Great job you two❤️
Yes! Thank you! Appreciate you stopping by.
The problem with the RV market is that the prices are high and the quality has dropped to junk since I first got involved back in the late 1960’s. A lot of great builders have been driven out of the market and what has replaced most of them is overpriced junk!
Guys, I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL, and I love your passion and concern. As an OLD RV’R, I can understand the frustration folks have.
I’ve commented before, 40 years of RV ownership, and yes, I’ve seen declines in quality. But I’ve seen quality decline in my cars, my trucks, the parts at Home Depot, the junk on Amazon, the quality of home construction, home appliances and list goes on.
I saw the auto industry make some horrible cars in the late 70’s and 80’s. My 84 Cadillac’s engine burned out at 26,000 miles due to a design flaw.
Cadillac didn’t go away.
The RV industry isn’t going away, and junk motorhomes ( I can name a few) have been around for 20 years. Motorhomes have always been high dollar , high maintenance items, just worse now but good products can still be found.
My advice to ANYONE considering buying an RV of ANY TYPE: do lots of homework, don’t get fooled by glitz, be reasonable in your expectations, consider used between 2014 ad 2019, do MORE RESEARCH, and always get an RV INSPECTION from a reputable source.
Keep the Faith. Life’s good.
Excellent advice everyone needs to know! Thanks so much for sharing and thank you for your kind works. Safe travels!
We have had two motorhomes-one a Thor Aria and now a 2023 Newmar Dutch Star ⭐️-That DS has had way more problems then the Thor -BIG PROBLEMS-CONSTANT PROBLEMS-They never end on this DS -We won’t ever buy another RV-We just plan to TRY and keep this DS going but if it doesn’t go anymore or we can’t go anymore then we are done -We do enjoy using the motorhome but it is NOT a cheap way to travel or cheap to own -The quality is abominable-No quality control and they don’t even try -Everything is laid at the dealership’s feet and they simply can’t keep up with it -we are over it -The shine is gone 🤷♀️⭐️🇺🇸
Me and my wife were looking at a 2019 thor 28A and other models like Dutchman in the same yr
Totally get how you feel. You've had a ton of problems with an RV that was once considered top notch. It's not right!
If the State of Indiana refuses to regulate the industry, then you will get nothing but BS from the manufacturers. They have no intention of decreasing their profits to build quality, and will only do so if the State and Federal government tells them they have to. This has been proven year after year since wholesale deregulation in the 1980's.
Love you guys!! Great research! Hope to meet you on the Road!❤
Thank you! Would love to meet on the road too!
A great time to start shopping, educate yourself about market conditions, and purchase if you get a good deal.
Another fine presentation. Thank you for this.
Your statement that a well built quality rv will lead to brand loyalty and repeat customers got me thinking. More accurately it will lead to a stellar reputation that, on its own, will generate more sales.
Totally agree!
Two things. Thanks for the update.
I heard about the zero emission from Cali and I believe if I’m not mistaken Newmar or another manufacturer is pulling out of that state. What does CA, OR, WA have in common? Well I’ll let you think on that.
Second. We sold our Winnebago Cambria (2015) class C gas. Didn’t take us that long to sell. What did we replace it with? We bought a 2020 Renegade Valencia Super C. Yes, a 2020. Why we went with a Super C? HP and torque not to mention the quality of Renegade when looking at their competitors was top notch. In fact, it was just a good quality as our former Winnebago, 10x better. And the price and hardly used! 5600 miles only!! The previous owner who had passed away and the wife put it on the market. When I say it was hardly used,I mean it literally. About a week ago prior to finding this gem we went to La Mesa RV show in Tucson. We wanted to look at the Entegra Esteem. O.M.G what a joke. It’s not worth the price. Cheap is an understatement. One thing I noticed was when walking inside and between the shower and bathroom you can feel the vinyl floor was not glued correctly.
We’re happy with our Renegade and was easy to drive. In our part of the country we have mountain passes and towing our Ford explorer this RV will do the job.
I will say we did run into two issues, the DEF header went out on us. Luckily traveling back from picking it up we ended up at a freightliner shop in Liberal KS. Nicest and friendly people. The repair was covered under Freightliners recall. 😊 the second issue was the automatic transfer switch was bad when connected to shore power. We easily fixed it ourselves and replaced it with a new ATS. Other than those 2 issues I’m happy with our purchase.
I will make a video walking through our RV. I’ll post the in next video as a link. Stay tuned.
Can't wait to see the video!
Don't see any videos at all. What's the channel name?
@@davidupton5213 I will. Haven’t gotten around to it due to Thanksgiving.
What CA and WA both have in common are rational environmental policies, educated, high income residents, and a lack of trumpy flyover country lower IQ types.
We have been RV’s for 55 years. We have owned numerous rvs. One thing they all have in common is poor quality, extremely slow repairs, extremly high repair bills. We have had ten tire blowouts and we run top of the line tyres. Until we begin t9 hold the rv industry to a higher standard nothing will be accomplished. We need to start with a nation wide lemon law and strong consumer rights. Hold the rv industry to start issuing recalls. They will putout a better product. They saythey have quality control but they really don’t.
I appreciate your analysis on the industry. I had a late "covid coach" (a 2022 Gulf Stream) and ended up doing a ton of cosmetic improvements and simple repairs on my own. Was obvious it had been slapped together, even the hot water heater had been left unplugged. I traded it in for a molded fiberglass trailer but took a tremendous loss.
I think it is important to note that during a market adjustment (after a period of when demand has been hyper accelerated) the natural reaction, isn't just to go back to the production levels of pre-pandemic. The market reaction would be pretty similar to what we are seeing. It is like a rubber band that has to snap back the other direction before things reach equilibrium. There are some additional factors that are contributing to the slow down - like buyers being tied to a purchase with a higher debt than value (due to price hikes during the pandemic) - thus disrupting the normal buy/sell/trade cycle from the consumer side, and impacting the dealerships. Also, it is important to mention that prior to the pandemic, the industry was already poised for a decline. There were a series of RVIA reports from 2019 that showed a trend toward a significant decrease in shipments. I don't know that a total industry meltdown will result, but I do think there is a massive market adjustment on the horizon.
Prices are way to high, quality is terrible, dealer service is pathetic, the one big dealer is as corrupt as they come; why pay big bucks for a rolling piece of shit that 2 years later is worth less than half what you paid for it
Totally agree.
Back to basics: Solid frames, metal roof, larger bathroom, taller shower, no slide-outs.
Yes. The basics.
I dont know if I can say its cheap or not but I have a 97 Prevost. No slides. Metal roof. No DEF. No EGR. It does not break down much at all. Keep it simple and it keeps it affordable. Excellent build quality. These frames are made to last a million miles carrying 56 people across the country at highway speeds.
Highers costs then?
@josephalberta1145 we've been considering a used Prevost for the same reasons.
@@jamesgentry13 Compared to new RVs I think much cheaper on top of the fact your purchase price on a good used Prevost is hundreds of thousands cheaper than a new equivalent Newmar or similar large class A.
The problem with the RV Industry cross multiple areas:
1) Poor quality RV's coming out since 2020.
2) Getting service for your RV is challenging. Can take months to get in, and then more months for them to order parts and actually fix it. Fixes go wrong.
3) RV Park's require 6+ months advanced planning to get in
4) RV Park rates are unrealistically high
5) Storage challenge for many people (HOA regulations, high remote storage costs)
6) People have 2 or 3 weeks of vacation a year, making the ROI of RV ownership extremely expensive in comparison to standard hotel rates
7) RV travel beyond about 800 miles from your home require extended, long trips, which are challenging to escape your employer / business to take that kind of time.
wow... didn't know that diesel vehicles were in trouble for banning ...thanks for providing the insight
Our pleasure. There's is lots of work on behalf of the RVIA to get CA to exclude RVs (and I think as of Friday there may have been some sort of handshake agreement for change)
Great job. I agree 100% on your comments around quality and price. Pretty basic but seems like the manufacturers are oblivious. Be careful , operational inefficiency is code word for to many people. This is only gonna get worse, you can’t run a business like Winnebago loosing 29M a qtr for long.
Good point on operational inefficiency and they've already had small lay-off....maybe more to come? We just don't understand how these manufacturers are completely missing the point.
Great content as always. Thanks!
Thank you! 😊
Awesome video! We love you back! We just purchased our 3rd RV. We first started with a pull behind trailer. We upgraded to a 5th wheel in 2021 because we decided we needed more space. When we purchased the first 5th wheel, we changed dealerships because of the way we were treated after sales and service! We really enjoyed that 5th wheel camper until we found another one in May of this year. We loved the floor plan in this one a lot better so we finally pulled the trigger last month and purchased it. You are so correct, the industry NEEDS to address quality. This new 5th wheel was a step up for us and had a ton of stuff we were looking for, but the quality of workmanship is just not there! The brakes did not work, the backup camera wiring has a short, the black tank flush system is blocked. Now I have to say the service department at the dealership is awesome! They are doing everything they can to fix all the issues!
Thanks again for your video!
Your story is echoed by many who have purchased RVs in the past few years. Glad you have a good dealership helping to resolve your many issues. Something has to change.
Thank you for the information.
Honey, you are SO RIGHT!! We bought a brand new 21 Alliance Valor 40V13. The kitchen, livingroom, and bathroom floor has had to be replaced due to a manufacturer mistake. The roof membrane was literally bubbled up and torn in spots. Our fault because we were too old to climb on top of the RV. Our Onan generator worked for 3 hours. We had an Onan Tech come out to check it. The generator ran just fine. The fuel line is not getting the fuel to the generator. Patio doors fall off, glass in the doors drop at odd times. That's just a few of the trouble we've had. They promise the moon and deliver a moon pie!!!
I absolutely agree with your assessment of the poor quality of most RV’s. But I think the recent decline in sales is the natural effect after the pandemic bubble.
I decided after a year of research not to enter the market. Seems everyone has problems with RVs and there are no lemon laws. Its not worth creating a money pit for myself. Not worth it. They look cool and look fun but the amount of problems that will happen outweight the investment. And this doesn't count the increasing fuel cost.
Very true! We're still hoping things will change.
We are on our forth RV. RVs are basically mobile homes that experience 4.0 earthquakes every time you drive them. But there is nothing to compare with RVing. A cabin can't change its location and a sleeping bag and tent are for children. Go into it with a good toolbox and a sense of humor and you'll love it.
For what it’s worth I thought I’d give you a perspective on used RV sales in Oklahoma from a small family owned operation. I can tell you as of December of this year fifth will sells and bumper pull travel trailers have dropped to little to nothing anything fifth wheel, travel, trailer, or motorhome with bunkbeds Absolutely dead market pretty easy to figure out why a lot of what you say is right on track. The average family vacationer, cannot afford an RV in this economy but as a small dealer we have to figure out what’s best for us and I will tell you that 26 foot and smaller class c motorhomes sales have been off the charts even in this economy most people ask me why it’s a very simple answer like myself and older people we realize time is more important than our money and a smaller class c Motorhome is what is desirable so that market has done very well even in a slow economy, but there is hope now that Trump will be the new president and putting lots of our fellow Americans to work oil filled pipeline welding that huge market will come back and help drive fifth wheel and trailer Sells I do see class a motorhomes or especially Diesel struggling for sometime. Hope this information helps. Thanks, Kevin.
I went to an rv show in brasil in November, the quality and fitures are amazong and the prices 40% less than the US.
I sure hope the result is campsite costs will also decline!
That's what's coming next.
We just bought a 2008 Fleetwood Terra. It had very low miles and I went over the whole RV and it is like new condition. We considered buying s newer unit but were warned against buying anything made after 2018 as the quality control was supposed to be utter trash. We got our new/used RV for a very good price and overall, I can see the difference in quality from that one to a newer unit. As far as California is concerned, there are plenty of other states to spend our money in.
You made a good choice!
great analysis, very smart couple
Thank you! 🙂❤️
It’s not only quality issues, which is a big one at that. It’s a combination of a horrible economy, higher interest rates, exuberant pricing, and buyer fatigue.
This period we are in is a recession, end of story. Changing the definition of a recession doesn’t change the outcome. And no, the stock market does not alone say the economy is in a good position.
Once the economy begins to ramp up again, people feel comfortable to spend money, interest rates drop a bit more and quality goes back up. You will see supply down and demand go up.
You make some good points.
Our 2023 Thor came from factory with over 300 defects. Currently in litigation like many others.
I live in Delaware and we have alot of rv dealers but the bigger ones want as much as a house for them so they sit.
They are all overpriced.
Our experience in the tow-able segment over several models points to poor quality during the build, poor quality checks at the dealers prior to customer walk-through inspections, poor after sale dealer after-sales-service, and exorbitant initial prices.
You just described ALL RV's manufactured in the NO REGULATION State of IN. Let the buyer beware (and in some cases be dead) of the crap coming out of that State by design!
That's what we're seeing across the board.
Great video, and love you guys! I hate that politics have to come into this, but reality is that it does affect us. We have to be sensible about what we do, not only in leadership, but in our daily lives. Life is full of valleys and mountain peaks. It is my hope and prayer that we are going to be climbing towards the mountain peak again soon.
Well said!
Do to the recent reviews of the RV industry and its lack of quality control and being able to schedule repairs I have decided definitely stay away from purchasing in the future.
All I hear is the dealer won’t fix repairs because it the manufacture issue basically pointing fingers at each other. The warranties aren’t worth the paper it’s written on.
No hard working person or retired person need these type of headaches .
I will keep my 2012 RV and 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 dually which have given me zero problems rather than buy new one’s of inferior quality. The RV manufacturers have zero quality control which is obvious by all the horror stories on the internet about new RV’s. Same for new trucks. Nothing is being built to the same quality as older RV’s and vehicles. And the price of new RV’s and trucks are outrageous. Good maintenance is all that’s needed on my part to keep my RV and truck in great working order, so I am out of the market until things improve drastically.
You are right
Had a friend buy a brand new cyclone 🌀..the roof peeled off the 2nd week he was on the road..🤨
Excellent insight presentation. Thanks
What are your thoughts on car manufacturers making RV’s like Honda and Kia. Are they better made?
Would love to see some new competition in the market. It's what lit the fire under the car industry in the late 70's and early 80's
5:40 But that's what happened. A huge Covid19 boom in 2020 - 2021. A lot of people bought RVs...and a lot of them were not experienced with RVs. Once they could go back to flying and staying at hotel resorts, their interest in camping went away. Or they just weren't ready to handle the responsibility of dealing with black water/grey water. Or they just weren't ready to drive something so large...whatever. The pre-owned market flooded with used 2020-2021 units. There are a lot of 2-4-year-old units out there for sale, pennies on the dollar for what they originally sold for.
Honestly, the best RV buys are getting into a 2017 - 2019 unit though. These were built better before the boom that caused a lot of new, inexperienced people to get hired and night/weekend shifts to be added at the factories.
I live in California. I remember before emissions restrictions. You couldn’t see Los Angeles due to the smog. We have to do something. Fossil fuels are killing us. I love to RV. I wish the companies had put more effort into clean emission vehicles. This has law was set years ago.
Not even "renewables" can exist without fossil fuels.
Excellent video... The only manufacturer I have seen who honestly has "Building a loyal customer base" in mind would be BRINKLEY towable rv's. Consumers feel the inflation crunch and less willing to buy. Those who are forced to sell their home to survive financially are down sizing. Many are down sizing to a towable rv. Before they downsize, they are researching manufacturers very carefully. I know I am... My wife and I have plans to buy a Brinkley very soon. We have seen too many brands rv's defective while being brand new. We've also seen many of those brands with defective rv's refuse to BACK THEIR PRODUCT the way they should. Brinkley is the only brand I've seen treating people right. Stay Awesome! < fist pump >
Take a look at the Kimberly line of trailers. Real suspension and disc brakes along with a molded fiberglass body..
Our 2017 View has been fantastic quality. Guess they don’t build them like they used to.
They sure don't.
QUALITY COST. DO WITH IUT OR RENT
Renting is a great option for most people. Majority of owners use their RVs less than 6 times per year.
Greed killed the rv market. Will wait for a Tesla , or buy a quality used rv. Problem with used units are the prices due to more demand . Another option I am looking at is to buy a refurbished unit like a Winnebago Rialta from Pop Top Heaven. Even with upgrades , a great unit for less than half of the new cardboard clunkers
I wonder how far off the Tesla RV is? Would make for interesting competition!.
Have you seen the Pebble trailer, electric assist and super cool for campground camping.
We plan on buying from cruise America or a mom and pop near us. The prices are much much better, also they're used too but we'll maintained
Let us know when you buy. I'd be interested in learning how it works out and if it's a good alternative for others.
El Monte RV takes very good care of their rental fleet and has been around for decades. I'd trust them.
Problem with Cruise America is bare bones units and high mileage
Am maintaining my 83 class c to last for life. Bought it in 97.
What are your thoughts on the new Brinkley I series TT?
I've come to the conclusion.that I rather buy an old piece of junk then a new piece of junk
Maybe if the companies would put quality Infront of profits. Their companies would be great . But they don't .
Hoping for the day that changes. There is nothing wrong with profit but not at the expense of safety.
In a bad economy the RVS and the boats are the first to go under ! Its recreational equipment, high volatile
It's not all bad. Camping World's new RV sales were up 27% in the third quarter! That's outstanding by any measure
True and Thor's numbers were good too.
I spend six months traveling and six months repairing, my MH. It's a COVID coach.
Yup. Sounds about right. We take a trip then make repairs for the next trip. Covid coach here too.
My 2021 Bounder 36F had major structural issues with the front left chassis and house. This caused (like so many others) the dashboard to bounce and squeak. To the point where the firewall was displaced. After 2 years dealing with REV and 2 trips to Elkhart. We just got it back and curious if it's actually fixed. Here's my question, with this being a well-known major issue. Why no class action lawsuit? Why is the RV industry held to a different standard?
@ctp8259 Some of the buyer's contracts state the buyer agrees to arbitration only. Not enough owners report issues to NHTSA. There have been lawsuits not sure of how many win, lose or settle. GD owners have successfully gotten the NTHSA to investigate frame flex. Things won't change until more owners take a stand. Liz Amazing is starting an advocacy group. We're really interested in seeing if it can effect change.
So much RV love, yes we are a community of ramblers. Love back to you ❤ both
19:00 You're not wrong.
Pricing & quality & economy.
Yup!
I agree 100%
Thanks for weighing in!
You are 100% right, i bought used because I did want all the problems a new rv have... cross this country all you hear job layoffs...2025 don't look any better right now with the cost of living
I am hopeful for 2025 actually.
Us too!
Smart move buying used. Wouldn't touch new right now with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.
Great information if only the RV industry would listen to the American consumers.
Before Covid say I was already looking for a class c they were 49 and 50,000. Now they’re 79 to 80000 dollars. Their to expensive as you say.
Ditto. Precovid the Winnebago Trevato was an entry level. Class b, with discount new for non lithium 59k, could get it out the door for under $80 k, now $125 k and up
Class B prices are insane!
Unrealistic pricing.
It’s pretty simple. Older Gen X and boomers are the last generation that are gonna be able to afford these expensive RVs. At least the numbers that they used to sell. It’s getting more expensive out there and the quality is going down. People can’t even afford to buy houses now. It’s bad out there. This whole industry is gonna collape
I hope they go down. For the main part, the RV industry has been nothing but horrible in the last few years.
It’s pretty simple. Older Gen X and boomers are the last generation that are gonna be able to afford these expensive RVs. At least the numbers that they used to sell. It’s getting more expensive out there and the quality is going down. People can’t even afford to buy houses now. It’s bad out there. This whole industry is gonna collapse
Appreciate the content - doesn't it feel like the story about the emperor who had no clothes on? Until you buy an RV for the first time - you really don't, like REALLY, understand how bad the quality, attention to detail and service availability are. I wish other content creators or more content creators would focus on the issues with owner lifecycle and experience vs. WHAT's NEW this year and parroting promotional material from the manufacturers. If people ask me about getting an RV - I have to say, stay away if you can, if not ... here's a ton of videos to watch. Again thanks for your candid, fair, passionate and entertaining video.
Mike Happe (As in Happy). He doesn't like Lisa and I too much these days, let alone Grand Design. There is a NHTSA investigation (date 10/9/24) against Winnebago and Grand Design for the 2017 - 2023 Solitudes and Momentums for frame failure that could effect as many as 55,877 5th wheels but there other lines have a lot of poor design, engineering, and build issues. They do not care about quality or their customers and I can prove it!
@@WestsontheMove it'll be interesting to see how the investigation plays out. Any insight on when the NHTSA plans to wrap it up? It's terribly wrong what they've been putting customers through.
@@AmpedtoGlamp There is a lot of behind the scenes if you are ever interested for information. NHTSA has been hushed lipped but I have been sending them information to work with, if they do. This is the Grand Design RV Major Issues account also.
You got that right Chit-ment
Oh my glob! They might have to gasp! Lower prices ..and gasp! actually make better quality products!
Maybe local communities could buy a boat load of rv's and house the homeless in remote areas off the city grid.
Price, qualitu, customer service off the roof im new in rv and loking for 15 hears old or older grits
i was just watching a discovery lxe on the used market someone had for sale for about 206k, some dealer snagged it from them and not even a week later they have it listed for 230k 🤣. these guys want a 24k profit for what? existing? i guarantee they did no maintenance or any upkeep to justify that pricing. guys are nuts.
No small wonder. Most have been making junk for years. Even the all aluminum ones most pined after have only had composite flooring recently!
I feel bad for the workers but screw those companies they screwed everybody over with high prices and crappy RVs
It's because those huge house RVs put all us cheaper surviving practical trailer dwellers who got killed by the giant motorhomes with washers/ dryers, large screen tvs, dishwashers etc. All the comforts of a condo on wheels. The 250.00 a month parks utilities included rent shot up sky high once these giant RVs moved in and used the electricity of 5 travel trailers overnight us " practical" campers lost our homes and lives. Good I say, get the road hogs out! It's about time!!!😅 Giant RVs and buses ruined simple survival living by being greedy. Sorry folks. But I watched it happen!😢 I had a great life until the giant RVs mowed us over! Now I'm damned near homeless. Signed...single senior on a simple pension that should have been enough!!!! No one thought about us!
Watching 👀
Glad you are watching!
thats what WGO is talking about reducing cost not what u r talking about
Poor quality / poor service / high prices
the boom was 2020 not 2019
That is true but we wanted to look at the numbers before the boom.
You are 100% wrong about the RV ban. It doesn't work as you describe.
We are open to feedback. What did we get wrong?
@@AmpedtoGlamp I think that was Mr. Happe. :)
Dont be stupid and buy any RV BE HAPPY AND SATISFIED WITH WHAT YOU HAVE
Markets go in cy
AGREED THEY ARE SHIT. ANY ONE KNOW A GOOD MANUFACTURER
We're looking into what models we can recommend. Stay tuned.
RV are all 💩! I was looking at buying a newer used but the insane poor quality of RV’s I’ll stay home!
Why would they ban diesel rv's?
Because the are over a certain weight and don't meet California's new emissions requirements. It was originally meant for trucks but the way it was written ended up including RVs by default
@@AmpedtoGlamp Yikes!
I think the election of Donald Trump will help the RV industry. He is going to do everything he can to champion American manufacturing and RVs fall right under that category. Better days are coming, for sure.
I hope so.
Help will be here on January 20th.
More deregulation, which got us into the RV INdustry mess we are in today? Good luck with that. There is a sucker born every day, the RV Industry Model of Operation since the early 90's!
Oh, please. More tariffs will help? Consumers pay the tariffs, but it sounds so tough.
Cause they’re all so poorly made.
They are not being banned. You need a much less misleading overview.
In California, new coaches at dealerships are being banned soon, due to the emissions factor. This could spread nationwide too.......
Another planeddemic
Give me a brand new small RV ,,donate ,,giveaway,,that will brighten up the bad publicity of take ,take,,, and no give give ,,, especially for all the money they have made ..
Overpriced! I was one of those potential consumers 2020/2021 waiting for price to drop. But it seems RVs are just as expensive😮. I hear horror stories quality and breaking down. The economy is not the problem because some industries have made out like a fat cat! Quality and Overpriced
It seems like the RV industry is just trying to get away with as much as they can!
My wife and I have 250k saved for a nice super class c, when everything gets back to normal we will go shopping.😊
Repigs rule