$100K SPEEDING TICKETS?? - American Reaction
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- Опубліковано 14 лис 2023
- This BLEW my mind. Thank you for watching with me! Let me know your thoughts!
Original video and credit to:
Why Finland Has $100,000 Speeding Fines - Cheddar Explains
• Why Finland Has $100,0...
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He seems to think that poorer people paying less would encourage them to break laws, but 50% of your income is 50% of your income whether you’re rich or poor.
Dude dislikes the idea because it'd hurt him. Conclusion: meet the wealthy villain.
Yeah and if they are worried of small fines they could just implement a minimum. They could for example have the "poor" pay the same fines as they currently do, just increase the fines for very rich people. That is kind of the whole point in the system.
Just proves that an education does not force you to be intellectually honest.
Not at all.
Poor's income spend on necessities: 100%
Wealthy's income spend on necessities: 10%
Losing 45% of your necessities is called a problem.
Losing half of your income you can play with is not.
So rich people can rest on their both ears. Even with this system the poor are still screwed over more.
The way he said that give the impression that he doesn't want that kind of law because it would impact the rich far more by taking away a lot of that immunity.
Like you point out, if the fine is based on 50% of your income, it's equal regardless of wealth and more likely to have an impact on the rich, whereas, much of the law in the US seems to have an impact on the poor and middle classes whiles a lot of the rich seem immune too much of the law, especially if it's related to fines.
9:47 I think the professor didn't understand that for someone who is poor, 100$ is just as painful as 1000$ for a wealthy person. Accordingly, both should feel roughly the same incentive not to do it again.
Well put...
I suspect that instead of misuderstanding the professor is rather arguing in bad faith. After all, he is from the University of Chicago where the ghosts of neoliberalism have been still live and well.
It's more of a deterrent, if the fine is felt more, they're more likely to not commit the crime.
Basically, it's got to have an impact on the person, regardless of wealth, to make them think twice about braking the law, which basically in many countries, if you're rich, you can break the law if it's fine related and not think anything of it, after all, paying $100 fine for a billionaire is like the average person paying 5 cents, a lot more people would break the law if it was so low.
@@paul1979uk2000 But the idea behind day fines is increased fines, not reduced.
...or if he understood. He probably have a good income and and don´t want to pay the extra for speeding himself.
Fixed fines basically means "legal for rich people".
Lose your license if you are caught speeding three times, that's at least something people should expect or fear. And lose the license right away, if you are endangering others.
I recall a convo with a former friend that happened to be quite rich indeed. I was at university at the time. Told them : "you can't park here it's forbidden." They said : "don't worry it only costs 135€" and I was like... okay that's my monthly salary, you know... (at that time, it was). So yeah, I agree with that concept. If you earn or have enough money to consider a fine as an acceptable price for a parking ticket, and there's not any other consequence, well... it only is a punishment for the poor.
The daily income is really a simplification, usually they check your tax report from the year before (2022 if you are comitting the crime in 2023) and calculate it on your entire income for that whole year
True that, so even if you are an Twitch streamer or UA-camr, authorities can calculate your daily income.
And if your income has drastically changed since last year, you can provide them with evidence and apply for correction. Like you made 70k last year and now are unemployed it can be hard to pay fines based on last year's income
@@pallethecop If USA did that, they would happily take previous year levels of income if the person became poorer and the current year if income has increase.
To simplify things: low speeding tickets (let’s say
don't know. never thought to much about speeding in most european countries, except switzerland. the one think that get's me there is, that they can inpound your car. even the income adjusted ticket kind of does not get me. good luck trying to get it from the german tax office, since germany has a tax secrecy law and it really hard to get around that one ...
@@amduser86 Ha, did you know that in Finland everybody's taxable income is public information? Your name and salaries are on a website if you make more than 100k / year, and individuals can call and ask for any other individual's tax information as well but it takes some effort. These public lists make yearly headlines on newspapers.
@@nikonyrh And I love it and I hope even more transparency would be. For example I would like the government release information about benefits, tax reductions and so on. The only thing I would withhold if someone gets assistance because of health concerns or that kind of private health information. I think releasing information about taxes paid generally gets good discussion about taxation and whether it is just and also it increases the chance of exposing tax evasion.
@@amduser86In Switzerland, you can go also in prison for speeding. But only for repeting offenses.
What the UC professor seems to be saying is that the ONLY reason people don't speed is because they might face a Horrible fine.
Is that actually why people speed or don't speed?
Further, under the Day Fine system, BOTH Wealthier and Poorer speeders get fined EXACTLY the same relative to income. As it is now, if we are to take this Professor at his word, Wealthier people (because of the relative affordability of fixed fines for them) are MORE likely to speed past schools... In other words, the absence of the Day Fine system encourages Wealthier people to speed, and the Professor seems fine with that...
Heidi is completely right here - His argument makes absolutely NO Sense - aka, it's NONSENSE...
That quote about speeding past schools in poor vs rich areas makes ZERO sense, the point of the system is not to lower the fines for the poor, it's too equalize the financial impact the fines have no matter what your income is, a 100$ fine can have a significant impact on a single mom who's barely scraping by from paycheck to paycheck, while to someone like Elon Musk, he won't even notice a 100$ being withdrawn from his account
@@Valokaari He very clearly does not understand the system at all
You can also read it as "poor people break the law more often than rich" which makes even less sense.
One could make the argument that with the current system, there is more speeding in rich neighbourhoods, as those living there aren’t really bothered by fixed fines they hardly feel financially. And thus in reverse a system with variable fines will reduce speeding mostly in rich areas and thus reduce the possible relative advantage poor neighbourhoods have today.
But this really only becomes a valid argument if a system of variable fines results in lower fines in poor areas than what the fines are currently.
@@aphextwin5712 I guess you could then argue that the percentage (not the actual number) of poor people speeding would go up, for the simple reason that the number of rich people speeding suddenly go down, should it actually hurt their economy. But that's not an argument, just a mathematical fact.
That is such a disingenuous argument it never fails to make me yell at the screen when I see it. But I mean... I can't say I'm surprised this is the case in a country that doesn't even want to tax the rich.
Well... unlike in U.S.... many countries in Europe have this thing called: democracy... and it is working too. While it can sometimes be slow method to improve the country, it is still the best way run the country.
The bigger question is WHY is there more crime in the US?
It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Finland provides a comprehensive Social Safety net and the US does not, could it???
You cannot compare along a single variable.
It is also unacceptavle in most of the world to mob a shop of any kind. And that has nothing to do with social security.
@@bruney74 social security is payment for the people not to make crime's for getting food and apartment. In countries where is more social security have less crime's.
@@bruney74 Investing in social stability is, for many Americans, almost like selling socialism. When Scandinavian countries appear to be socially stable, it does indeed lead to less crime, but that does not make them socialist countries - they are just as capitalist as the USA but just take a social responsibility. With the safety nets stretched out from under me in Denmark, I feel significantly more secure and free than I ever would in the United States.
@@bruney74 It's very likely that having a strong social safety net would reduce crime rates, especially among the poor and middle classes or when times are hard.
The US in comparison to most of the modern world has quite a weak safety net, it's not hard to imagine that if things get desperate for someone, they could turn to crime, especially in the case when it comes to gaining money.
@@TheKIMANO I think that amounts to a lot of the problems the US has got, we hear talks about some wanting a universal health care in the US or other social programs, but I feel the US will find it difficult to solve many of the issues they have that most of the modern world doesn't have to the same degree unless they are willing to raise taxes and invest a lot more in social programs, including some kind of universal health care.
At the moment, the system punishes the low and middle class the most, because these are more likely to be thrown under a bus by the system, which in many cases can lead to a lot of the other problems the US shows.
Having a lot of social programs isn't a cure as such, but it can clearly help in reducing a lot of the issues that many people get themselves in, especially among the poor.
A huge reason why this is so different between US and Europe, has to do with trust.
In Europe we predominantly trust our governments and legislators to have our best interests at heart.
That is imo not the case in the US. There is a sense of “us vs them” where “them” is the govt./legislators. They’re in it fir themselves, seems to be the overall take in peoples minds.
That will make any society sceptical towards change, and will make something as drastically different, from what we’re used to, difficult to implement.
Correct
Europe... except France then (actually I think there is a degree of mistrust of the Government in every country, especially recently, but its significance differs from country to country). I think the political system is very important in this matter. If people feel represented by their elected officals they will trust them more. France (and the US also for that matter) are presidential/majority system that doesn't represent the diversity of opinions in the population.
In Denmark it’s possible to get your vehicle confiscated if you exceeds 100 km/h in the city, 100 % out of town or 200 km/h on motorway. A lesson a guy from Norway learned the hard way when he was pulled over by the police for driving 236 km/h in his brand spanking new Lamborghini.
The car was confiscated and he was sentenced 20 days in prison plus he lost his license. 😅
Bad day in court indeed 😂
Only.. he didnt loose his license... Denmark cant revoke A Norwegian driving license, but... he can be banned from driving in Denmark... for a period... usually 5 years....Afterwards the Norwegians can add to that by revoking the license... Or so it used to be... havent been in the system for 15 years...lol
@@dockingtroll6801 yes a person cannot lose his driving license in another country. A person from Poland was drunk driving in denmark and next day he was allowed to drive in Poland. He was only banned from drving in Denmark. I think EU should somehow change this rule.
@@bobbynygaardchrisitansen6874 Or perhaps not. The traffic laws are different in each country as this example just showed you.
@@spugelo359 That is also true but drunk drivers should lose driving license regardless where it happens.
The system of Finnland should be used everywhere. Here in Germany speeding tickets are way too low.
Here in the Netherlands the fixed rates for speeding tickets is too high for the average person, while the more financially capable people stay making speeding offenses as for them those tickets are peanuts. Such days system would likely work here better as well to discourage the rich from offending while at the same time not be overly harsh to the average person.
@@sergeleon1163 the problem is that the government has to change the law to introduce this system and as long as we have the VVD as a ruling party that won't happen.
the VVD is a party mostly for the upper middle class and business people so they won't introduce laws that hurt their voters (the rich).
the system would be so much fairer if fines, healthcare costs, childcare costs etc would be income based so they are accessible for poor people and rich people pay their fair share into those systems.
in the current system all these universally needed things are a joke (in terms of affordability) for the rich and an (almost) un-affordable luxury for the poor.
In the US prisons are a business with lots of lobbyists. They will block all legislation that will lower the number of prisoners.
YES!! True that... good point.... never make humans a business....
The whole point of the system is to just have a scalable fine system where people who earn more money also pay heavier fines in the form of speeding tickets. This also has a preventative effect since if the speeding ticket would be a fixed sum people with more income could just basically take a calculated risk since the actual fine would be easily brushed off by them.
I heard a story about a rich douchebag in Helsinki. He parked his Porche in the middle of the sidewalk because there wasn't any free parking spaces. Someone told him that he can't park there and he just replied:" With 80€ I can park my car anywhere I want in Helsinki!" That is the fixed parking ticket rate in city central area.
To be honest, to get 47 day fines in Finland, you would have to go about 70 mph above the speed limit, not 10 over. For 10 mph speeding, you would get flat fine of 200 EUR, which basically allows rich people to go 10 over all the time.
Your income (which includes both salary and profit from stocks etc) for fine is based on total taxed income of your previous year. And even if you're really poor, there's minimum fine even if your income were zero.
Thank you sir, the video was misleading
^This is true.
Although, there is a point system on the driver's license. You'll get a point if you go 6-9 mph over (lower limit for 40 mph zone or slower). Get 3 points in a year and you'll lose your license. So maybe you need to be a little bit careful even if you're rich.
It is flat rate to 20kmh or about 12mph above speed limit. After that it is a day fine.
@@jpm83 If you want to be pedantic, fines for speeding go as follows in Finland:
- Speed limit 60 km/h or less: 1-15 km/h overspeed results in 170 EUR fine, 16-20 km/h overspeed results in 200 EUR fine, anything more results in day fines. Day fine is always 200 EUR or more.
- Speed limit 61 km/h or more: 1-15 km/h overspeed results in 140 EUR fine, 16-20 km/h overspeed results in 200 EUR fine, anything more results in day fines. Day fine is always 200 EUR or more.
If you get caught speeding 3 times in a year (or something like that) you will lose your license for a while, so actually the rich ones can't speed all the time.
Btw, 10km/h speeding is "legal". You won't get fined, if you're speeding less than that.
08:48 Did he just say that you couldn't fine people in the US based on their income because there are more people in the US? Am I missing something or does that simply not make sense?
Yeah, it does not. For some reason americans seem to be saying that always when comparing with the nordics.... same thing with everything else they say after 😂😂😂
In 2010, a Swiss man paid a fine of $767,000 for traveling at 290 km/h instead of 120. When a violation exceeds a certain threshold, a judge decides how much the offender must pay after examining his financial statements.
Just this Year, a rich lady (Irina Beller) got fined over 40k (50 day fines of 800 CHF) for going 43 km/h too fast in a road construction zone where, as usual, 80 km/h were allowed. Last year she was already fined about 30k. As of today, 1 CHF equals 1.13 USD.
I havee been working on road/infra project for 20 years.. especially early career there quite many close calls in large bridge/road sites where even with all the safety measures ppl ddnt care about road work site speed limits.. its scary when cars drive meter from you 80kmh.. i am glad i am not doing those any more..
Not a traffic violation but I remember that raiffeisen or maybe ubs director paid over a million in day fine for fraud
There also doesn't exist a "bail bond" system in Finland, where with money you can get away from jail. Only people who have done some really serious crimes have to wait in jail for their sentence, a big portion of people go to prison on their own volition, when they're told to, the rest police catch when they see them, but there isn't a real punishment for not showing up on time, except perhaps on the topic of where you'll be spending your jailtime, be it a closed prison or an open penitentiary facility, from where you can go to regular school & work, get to shop at a normal store etc.
75 km/h instead of 50 km/h, that's rude! And this in a town where children can cross the street.
Recently, a rich foreigner in a German city drove at over 100 km/h (the permitted speed is 50 km/h) and caused a serious accident. He was immediately arrested because there was a risk of escape. He has to stay behind bars until a verdict is made and then we'll see what the judge says. But surely the penalty will be calculated according to his income.
My thinking when discussing possible implementations of concepts from Europe in US, I think the question is not so much dependent on if the concept would work in USA or not, e.g. the fact the the us is so much larger than European countries are often mentioned but are seldom a valid argument as I see it. Rather I think most initiatives would fail due to the fact that the political will to change is not there.
Yes, professor said what you think he said. And yes, it's borderline disgusting.
The professor doesn't make sense. If you make 7 million, 100k fine will sting but you'll survive. If you make 30k a year, paying 300$ will make a dent in your welfare. Poorer people would be more careful.
11:29 - I think he refers to the fact, that due to this politics fines for poor people could actually get cheaper, than they are right now, and he immediatly accuses poor people of taking advantage of that and start speeding around schools endangering children in their neighbourhood. Yeah, he must be a... very... very... nice person...
No doubt he's projecting, because that is exactly what he would do, probably.
It should be noted, while the day-fine practice is indeed still used in Finland. It is not used for every kind of crime. Minor crimes are often given administrative fixed fee fines. But only after a certain threshold in the severity of the crime do day fine practice come into play. And if the crime is more severe (so a victim exists, that has suffered more than just financial damage), the incarceration is on the table. Albeit there are different kinds of prisons, indeed we have even these "open" prisons where in essence the prisoner needs to almost only come to sleep. E.g. they can go the the university to study for pretty much the whole day, but after lectures they need to report back to the prison. Naturally more "normal" prisons also exist here, but generally you only get to sent to them for much more severe crimes.
And indeed, as has been pointed out multiple times. The income to calculate the day-fine is based on last years tax-records (if you financial situation has changed drastically you can however also give and actual income (which will be validated)). Tax records are after all public information here, I'm sure that are more than a few vids where this is tested and shown here in youtube... perfect for those stalkers ;). This public info thing is relevant as every year about this time of the year the finnish IRA/tax office sends a listing of the most wealthy 100 individuals to the media (long standing tradition, aptly dubbed jealousy or envy week). N.b. you can request the tax office to non disclose your information, but you also need to give a reason why it should not be disclosed.
The proffessor guy already explained it starting 11:40, the government provides free healthcare and education. Maybe if the US did that, there would be less crime since there would be less people who are desperate enough to resort to crime.
YES!! See the whole picture.... good one mate....
This system needs to be implemented into how we fine corporations. Right now, these fines are so low that businesses simply see it as part of the cost of doing business and just keep paying the fine than change their practices. The point of a fine is to make it hurt enough to be an incentive to stop further infractions.
This is what EU does. Fines for corporations are based on their annual sales (NOT profit).
The turnover based fines in EU for companies like Meta or Apple are at the moment pretty much the only hinderence for them not screwing over the people even more. They're not enough, but at least they're something. In their home country they get off practically scott free.
@@iLoveTheseRemoras
"They're not enough"
They double every time they try and find out. So they listen when we're still just giving them the minimum fine.
That "reasonable but not too high" fine you hear about is just the warning shot and nobody risks the higher fines. Not to mention there is a higher change executives actually land in jail here.
We have the same options here in denmark it's tied to high income.. in 2020 a famous danish footballer drove with 157kph / 97.5 miles pr hour where 110 /68.3 was the allowed speed limit , he got his porsche confiscated and a 40.000 DDK /5800 dollars in fine another incident with him he drove under the influence with 1.75 pr thousand alcohol in the blood .. the allowed max is 0.5... he got a fine of 842.000 DDK = 122.5000 USD .. his year salary was 12 .000.000 DDK = 1,750,000 mill usd.... salary divided by 25 times the 1.75 .....and not allowed to drive in denmark for 3 years
Here in Germany, if you are brought to Court for a less severe crime, where you don't get a prison sentence but you are instead sentenced to pay a fine, the amount of money you have to pay is also connected to your income. We don't talk about reparations here which have to be dealt with separately but about the fine which you have to pay to the state for the criminal offence you have committed.
Size of the country is a stupid argument. I have heard it used before on other things. Since when does the size of the country determine who or how many people become/are criminals ?? If it does not, than the way or manner justice is handed out can not be based on the size of the country either. More people equals more prisons, is the basic statement, not more criminals equals more prisons. However the amount of people does not have to equate to more people (either in actual numbers or in percentage), to more bad or negative behaviour.
(One could argue laws regarding fire arms might influence the rate of violence. Seeing that if one can not get hold of one, it means one can not use it.)
If inequality is a reason, specially in a country that claims to be a "civilised", "modern", "western" country (take your pick on any of those terms), should that not imply that there is a huge need to work on equality ?? And if that is the case, can the argument not be inverted on this base alone ??
The minimum day fine is 6€. So if you read that someone got 20 day fines which resulted in 120€ fine, you'll know that the guilty person is/was poor.
It also means that if you get rich quick, don't drive the next year.
The minimum day fine is always at least equal to regular fine, which is 200 EUR for traffic violations in Finland.
And "victim of crime" fine on top of that because reasons.
Well, In Europe, experimenting 'what is better for the people' is called elections. And they are quite regular I think, every 4 years or so:)
Back in the days, you could go to jail to sit off your day fines. Like if you get 15 day fines, instead of paying you go to jail for 15 days.
11:15 Hes rich and he wants to speed, hes not concerned about the poor at all so the argument seems nonsensical. The obvious reason to hold that perspective is becouse he wants to have the status quo where he as a rich person can pay what is equivelant to him, pennies for breaking laws.
In Sweden it is the court that tries to calculate how much money you make at the time of the crime. In general they look at the public information of what your income was when you payed taxes last time. If you have a big income and pay extra tax for that reason they do remove 20% this income you have to pay extra tax for. (for 2024 it is 598 500 kr) If you have kids court removes one half of the "price base amount" (57 300 kr for 2024) for every kid that you take care about. This sum you get now is then divided by 1000 and then they remove 50 kr. If you have a personal wealth of more then 1 500 000 kr you get 50 kr added and then 50 kr more for every 500 000 kr above that. In some cases when you have a lot of financial liability you can in some cases get a few kr removed. Then you get a sum and round down to so it is a 0 as last digit in the sum to get what your day-fine is. This sum can by law be a minimum of 50 kr and maximum of 1000 kr.
If you don't have any known income court should try to calculate what your income is depending on what expenses you have in your life that is known.
You can also provide information about how high your income is and if this seems reasonable the court will mostly go with this sum, else they will try to calculate it.
Then you multiply this with the value your crime is decided by the court. The total sum you have to pay could not be lover then 750 kr by law.
$ 1 is about 10.50 kr, and € 1 is about 11.50 kr.
There is no such thing as the perfect system... however, the European system comes quite close to this.
However, it is important that you do not rest on your laurels, but continue to work on improvement.
About determining your daily wage: The first assumption is simply a calculation based on your taxable income of the previous year. If your circumstances have drastically changed you can make a complaint and present your arguments to the court. For example, since you asked 🙂, if you are a UA-camr who happened to make a million dollars last year but this year you really are struggling and will earn way less this year, then that's a good case to bring up in the complaint. If accepted, the day fine is adjusted to match your changed circumstances.
The day fine also has a minimum amount. You will be charged at least that even if your income is really low or nonexistent. I think that's something like $6.50 which would mean an assumed net income of about $650/month.
"For one wage cap in the US is much wider..." That's more of a reason to implement similar system lol.
Professor of University of Chicago:
He's obviously got his information backwards, or wasn't paying attention to it, or he's just an asshole who likes the idea of punishing poor people for being poor. The entire point of this idea is to make the punishment fit the criminal, and base the fine on relative income.
I bet he's got tenure, and the fines would hit him harder than the set fines he currently would get.
If there is justice everyone should face similar punishment and that similar punishment depends what is your life situation especially your income.
P.s. I have heard that someone bragged to police his income when was getting ticket.
USA pilots many of the great ideas like getting rid of homelessness (pilot was run in New York) etc that we in Finland then implemented since it works. the problem is like you said that the rich basically own the government in usa since it’s money that puts them in office so they aren’t been used there.
Hi Heidi,
I highly recommend, to watch "Inside Job" (2010) narrated by Matt Damon.
Besides that I find the documentary very interesting, what was most striking to me, was the fact that Professors of highly renown Universities have been paid off to write reports/risk assessments that led to the financial crisis of 2008.
I'm mentioning this, in regards to the Professor making the argument, that a daily fine based system would create a disparity in crimes committed in low income vs. high income neighborhoods.
The argument makes no sense at all, as the opposite would be the case. A daily fine based system would discourage speeding in high income neighborhoods the same way as it currently does in low income neighborhoods.
Now, if there are more speeding crimes committed in low income neighborhoods if a daily find based system would be implemented, that would certainly have other reasons.
i.e. that most parents are actually working and need to get to school and then to work, whereas in upper class areas children are dropped off by the nanny.
In short, based on the documentary I learned in particular US "expert opinions" are to be taken with a big pinch of salt and to always question their hidden agenda.
Well Casey Mulligans sentence about speeding does not make sense, its precisely calculated from income, so speeding ticket would hurt low income household as much as it would hurt high income household. If said punishment for speeding would be implimented, I'm guessing Casey Mulligan does not want to feel the same weight of the ticket as low income household would.
Well in Denmark they just take your car.
In Denmark they take your car nomather how expensine it is.
There is an equity fine in Sweden, but not for speeding offences. In Finland, it only applies to the heaviest speeding fines. I don't know the limits but let's say 1 - 15 km/h too fast or 15-30 km/h too fast gives a fixed amount. But if you drive over 30 km/h too fast, you get an equity fine. So I had a cousin who drove too fast and should have received the higher fixed amount. But he managed to persuade the police to write a higher speed so that he would receive an equity fine. Just because he was doing military service at the time and then the amount of his fine was lower with the equity fine.
A high ranked policeman in Switzerland lost his drivers licence and job and he served a year in prison for driving under the influence of alcohol and speeding.
The point kinda was, that instead of sitting in a jail cell for 10-60 days, you pay the income you would have gotten during that time. You don't get fired for missing work, and still have to work the said amount of time with the benefit of the work going to the state, instead of you.
I bet the billionaires in the US can deduct their fines.. lol
In Denmark we used to be able to pay fines with stamps, like postal stamps, so you went to the post office, bought stamps worth what the ticket was, and entered it as a business expense.... who would suspect a business, big or small, that sends out a lot of letters.... cant do it anymore btw, but maybe there is a new way around it....
Making fines relative to income/wealth makes sense, if your rich $1.000 is nothing.
Here in Denmark we have added another thing on top of our speeding tickets. Go fast enough and the car or motorcycle you were driving is confiscated and it doesn't matter if the car was your own, borrowed, rented or one where you hadn't finished paying for.
Essentially if you were find to be a "crazy driver" then say goodbye to the car and pay a hefty fine and you of course also lose your license + there can also be jail time if extreme enough.
One or more of the following transgressions will suffice:
- Exceed the speeding limit by 100% or more.
- Go faster than 124 mph
- Drive with a blood alcohol level exceeding 2.0
- Reckless driving where you put others in danger. Example, repeatedly run red lights and nearly hit someone.
- Cause an accident where someone is hurt while you being intoxicated
Example of cars that have been confiscated:
- Bentley Bentayga
- Lamborghini Huracan (this was brand new just collected from the dealer)
- Mercedes AMG GT 63
- Porsche 911
and the list goes on. There is of course also lots of average cars being confiscated.
actually it is more expensive in Denmark because if you drive 100% too fast they will take your car and you will not get it back and that is not depending on your income but the fine is how expensive the car is. A person lost his Lamborgini. Danish Police Confiscated a $310,000 Lamborghini from a person from Norway. They will also take cars even if they are owned by leasing companies and the leasing company will not get the car back even if the only "crime" they made was to lease the car to a driver.
Experimenting on day rates since 1921. That's a 103-year long experiment. ;) And to think that Finland got its independence Dec 6th 1917...
Fine is calculated on base of your last full year taxation. If you have lower incomes now, you can apply lowering your day fine. On that way also UA-cam income is covered.
Okay, that makes sense to me, thank you!
It is based on previous year's confirmed tax records from tax office. Which means that on mid 2023 forward when persons income and tax has been confirmed for 2022 ticket is based on that. Before that it is based on previous confirmed year so 2021 and so on. And if persons income has changed a lot and record of 2022 doesn't match the current income one can appeal and request it to be adjusted. For example if one has got unemployed and income has dropped a lot.
As i've talked about this with people all over the world, one thing is very striking: some muricans do not get it. They just don't understand how it can be fair if one is fined 100 and other 1000. Not even when the whole concept of "time is equal to all of us" and that the punishment should be an equal deterrent to all.. Nope. I think it is because money is SO ingrained in the value system that fairness is literally measured in money by alarmingly many of the people i've talked to. Note, very large portion or muricans absolutely get it, they may not agree on all details but they get why it can be fair... they understand that "fairness" is subjective concept. But some... just do not get it. I can talk to them for hours and it won't change. It is really weird, like if you were to explain to someone who ladders work and the deny that the whole concept has any sense, for hours and hours, looking at the thing, looking at someone using it.. and still that person says it can't work. It feels like that.
The video mentions Denmark using the day fine system, that is not for speeding. Usually day fines will be for breaking regulations, it could be a business not adhering to labour laws, or breaking building regulations, etc., then you could get day fines for each day that goes by until you fix the issues. But for serious speeding violations we recently started doing something else, your car can get confiscated, not with held, not impounded, it becomes the property of the state. Doesn't matter if it's a 20 year old $500 Fiat, or a brand new $1 million Ferrari - if you want it back, you have to go an buy it back at a police auction, against anybody else who decides to bid, but maybe you don't want it back, because likely you have also lost your driving license for a couple of years. So if you decide to go 2x the speed limit, make sure you are driving something you can afford to lose.
keep in mind that prisons are a buisness in the u.s.a., they are not interested in the fate of individuals.
You can also choose to go to jail, if you don't want to pay. I love that it is crime severity * DAYS, which is absolutely equal to all no matter how much you earn. Each day is worth the same for all of us.
In Switzerland it’s similar and they take your car away if you are too fast and even your licence.
There's quite often speed bumps on streets near schools. They are equally annoying to everyone. The thought of getting driver license suspended probably effects drivers the most. Because something is different sounds kinda strange explanation for not implementing that something. Going by that policy not much progress would ever have taken place. One way to prevent speeding is to give people low entry opportunities to drive like maniacs, E.g. rallying. Here's one popular motorsport class: "Mika Hakkinen Teaches Captain Slow to Drive | Top Gear" and "Jokkis Finnish Folk RacIng: A Race For Anyone With Wheels!".
Unlike what video says 10mph (16kph) over the limit is always fixed fine regardless of income. 200€ for up to 60kph (37mph) speed limit areas and 170€ for higher speed limit areas.
Day fine concept is in use for speeding fines starting from 20kph over the limit. There is also minus 3kph measurement error subtraction which is always done. On normal max 120kph (75mph) motorways this means actual day fine lower limit is 144kph (89mph) radar gun result.
Driving through red light, dangerous driving and other non traffic related crimes like assault or financial crime also use day fine system. Yearly after taxes income needs to be in +$1m to get $50k fine.
This is how fines should be. In all things. A %. that way big companies dont get away with fines that means nothing.
And poor people dont go bankrupt.
Also, its not messy. You have to remember the Nordic nations have a really good, safe, and helpful system in general.
Taxes are done through the state yearly. Every number is there. So if you ever need help from the state they can provide it.
There is no debate on the number the court would use, they will use the yearly government tax. ( And that will be binding, because if it is wrong, people deal with it when they get it )
Does not matter what your job is, or if you get all your money once a year, or every week.
Its much more simple and easy that the American tax system. In fact its a bit to easy, so many young people today in the Nordic nations have no real idea on how or what, because its all done pretty much automatic. People in the Nordic nations dont " Do taxes " like in the US. they just get the predicted yearly tax form once a year, and then a actual tax form for when the year has passed.
The "daily income" is based on taxes paid the year before. You'll get a rebate for the ticket later or an extra charge if your taxable income has changed
11:30 impossible to make it clear because the prof is playing with words to try to make an argument against something he doesn't like by making a huge straw man. Income based fees does not make it cheaper for the poor, it just makes the fees equally expensive to the rich. So the number of speedings at the schools should be the same since both groups are penalized equally.
And it's getting tired by now that Americans are still trying to play the "but we have X times larger population than country Y", it never makes any logical sense.
WTF = Welcome to Finland ...
10:00 That is so stupid what Casey Mulligan says. When poor people have lower fines why should they do more crimes? The US has a generic problem and that is money rules and eff those that have no money - you are not helping victims of small crimes with arresting the criminals. The criminal has a roof over his head, the state pays for his health problems etc in prison meanwhile the victim suffers from the crime and get no help. In no other country in the world victims have to make a go fund me campaign to cover the cost of their damages.
Just think about it what a prisoner cost the state, that he does nothing productive like paying taxes etc., while you could use the money from the fines and the money you save, because you don't have to pay for the prisoners life while he does nothing, to pay for free healthcare.....
I really really really really really want to get a 100k€ fine. It means I'm earning millions...
The problem obviously is that government can fine only persons legal income. They have no knowlegde of un-taxed or other illegal income. Therefore, criminals never pay day fines as severe as non-criminals do and criminals have small chance ever go to prison because if they're caught, they are just given day fines.
IMO the private prison system is the main reason for the huge incaceration rate, because it is a huge bussines. I did see a TED video that showed the incaceration rate starting to climb rapidly after more and more private prisons in 1970s/1980s were established. The society(victims are members, too) has to pay a huge sum to keep a prisoner(according to data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics: "States [=society] spent an average of $45,771 per prisoner for the year [2020]"), with day fines (they are used for minor offences, and if there is a damage to a victim, the victim can claim additional reparation) the offender would have to pay society.
This makes a lot more sense, basically, in a lot of countries, if you are rich, you are more or less immune when it comes to a lot of fines, after all, if you're a billionaire, getting a $500 fine means nothing, for these kinds of people, they can break the law regardless if the penalty is just a modest fine, which would be like fining the average person a dollar or much less, a lot more people would break the law if the penalty is so low.
At the end of the day, the penalty for braking the law has to be enough of a deterrent to make people think twice about braking the law, but clearly in many countries, if you are rich, you have a lot more immunity when it comes to the law, especially in the US, which money in many cases can buy your freedom, sometimes regardless of crime.
The daily income is determined as the yearly income through 360 days.
Even though we use day fines in Denmark, they are used for more "nonspecific" crimes if we talk about the system on it's own... We don't really use it for traffic violations as a start, as those have a set fine for every infraction, like running a red light or going over the speedlimit at different rates. If for instance you lead police on a pursuit, the police can then use video they have in their cars to ticket you for literally EVERY offense you make during that pursuit!
They are mostly used for crimes that go before a judge, with is relativly rare in Denmark. They are mostly used to retroactivly decrease a fine that is unrealistic for someone with a very low income, and they can ask to have their fine looked at, and possibly reduced to dayfine rates instead of the fixed rates if they have no realistic way of paying it back.
So at least here, it's a bit more on a case to case basis, and on the discretion of the officers and the wishes of the perpetrator...
In Finland, a speesing ticket is a punishment for breaking the law, not a free ticket that buys you a cheap right to break the law.
If you search on UA-cam 1 million dollar speeding ticket. A man in Georgia USA got 1.4 million dollar speeding ticket. He was doing 90 mph in a 55.
4:00 if not daily income minimum day fee is 6€ and with trafik law minimum charge is 115€ (20 day)
This is my third or fourth comment in any of your video. Last one i wrote i said i am coming fan of you, it was one of your shorts(where u like when Marco from Nw was singing😊), and this just proven everything what i say about u there.
P.s. i am going to keep commenting so long, that when u notice me any little way, i stop harrasment 😅😅
Peace and love from 🇫🇮.
Keep doing what u doing and show other Americans that its not away from greatness of US of A, if u are interested and respect things outside of your great country.
Wow, that professor is ALMOST getting it...
I think it was 2012 when I was taking a break from working, I got caught 20 over the 50 km/h limit near school, I got ticket for 140-170€ (can't remember exact amount) Cops knew me and was like if you would have driven 1 km/h faster.. you would lose your licence.. I was like yeah thats not good :D I was young, highly stressed and trying to rush so I could have taken care of stuff.
Reckless driving, here in Denmark, will cost you your vehicle. They will take your vehicle, even if it is borroved, leased or rented. It will be your problem to sort it out with the owner. So do not lend out your vehicle to anybody you don't trust.
Income is based on annual income from previous tax year. One can get it changed to current year if their income has changed to substantial degree.
At about 11:45 , the guy builds an argument around the welfare state and the feasibility of a "day fine" system. But the system in Finland was instated in 1921; in other words, WAY before there was much of the social security frameworks seen today. And because the professor also mentions "trust in the goverment", it's worth noting that in 1921, Finland was just starting to recover from the 1918 Civil War.
Also, the "welfare state" isn't all as socialized as many seem to think. We pay to get our medicines from private pharmacies, though the government may reimburse a part of the cost depending on the drug. (E.g. in Britain there's only a small flat price on every drug that the patient pays, so, much socialized). There's public healthcare that provides quality service for small fees, but if one has money aplenty, it's often times easier to go to a private healthcare provider and pay the market price to avoid any waiting-in-lines. Just to give a couple of examples. It's not socialized, nor entirely capitalistic, but somewhere in the middle.
most other countries: we don't like crime... US: "hey lets make a business out of it"
and some explanations here why we accept those fines is just stupid... excuses to keep it as a business not to prevent crime... high fines are there to prevent them while trying to balance it that you don't bankrupt someone completely... those stagging fines are more to disincurage "I have the money and I give a damn about speeding" for example... they basically turn this logic around in the US (if you can even call it logic what happens in spreading parts of the US)... but yeah what the one dude said is right... if you don't have to fear that you don't have a roof above your head, food on the table and your health mostly covered you don't have such a high crime rate anyway... things I've been told will increase crime rate from US people *facepalm*...
It is not crazy. 100$ speeding tickets to rich people are not punishment, they just pay, laugh and continue.
A Finn here. I've got one speeding ticket once (yeah I was driving way too fast). Police chased me and stopped me. Along the law I got my fine, tho police has some leverage, from 3 tier system they placed me to tier 2 so I got some "discount", but ended up paying 600e 😢
The thing the professor said at 11:25 is that logic isn't his friend, very humble to admit it so openly 🙂
There is always a minimum sum so if you have no income at all then you pay the minimum sum which I believe is around $200 and the govt knows your taxed income so even if you don't have real daily income but you have income around the year they can count the amount of day fine easily by dividing the income by every day of the year but I think they use previous year's tax information for counting day fines.
In battery case you don't only pay fine to goverment, but also you pay compensation to the victim (which is larger figure than fine to goverment).
In my case, the judge just asked what I was doing for a job. Luckily, I was between jobs, so I got off very cheap. I felt the judge did see it from my side, and he really recognized my economy, and it was my first (and only) offense, It was in 1981.
"like with jailtime you can just bail somebody out" that's not at all how it works, it's not like you can bail yourself out of the conviction, you can only bail yourself out prior to conviction
Interestingly, the minister of justice (Kari Häkämies) who adjusted the way that your income is being calculated, ended up assaulting a person a few years after, which led him to get a bigger day fines as he would have received with the previous system. So, here in Finland the relatively rich people actually might implement things that hurt themselves.
1:43 The USA should update its maps of Europe. The map shown is over 30 years old.😁
I think jail numbers are kept high in the USA because the government made so much money from the goods that prisoners produce.
A lot of U.S. prisons are for profit so the more prisoners the more profit. They don't have to produce anything just keep the maximum number of people locked up
I think the prisons are private enterprises that get paid per inmate, so the more there are inside, the more money they make....
@@dockingtroll6801yeah the government doesn't really make money off of the prisoners, it's the private for-profit prison companies that do.
The police pull your last years yearly income from the tax records, from which the fines are counter from. So no steady daily wage is required to make the calculation, just your yearly income divided by 365.
I wish my country (NL) had that system. We have a flat rate and even worse, we have to pay for the administration on top of that. I still don't understand that. It is the task of the government to uphold the laws. People pay taxes to make that possible. But no, for speeding and traffic offenses, you have to pay 9 Euro extra for "administration cost". Next step would be that if I commit a murder, I have to pay to get access to the justice room because of "cleaning costs"?
Private Companies that provide prison placements...also contribute (give legal bribes) to political leaders and the executive branch.
Until money is out of politics nothing will be done for the people unless it benefits a "contributing" company aswell.
In Denmark if you speed over 100% you get a hefty fine, loose your drivers license for 3 years, get 20 days in jail and they take your car bye. A ducth guy lost his lambo worth over 2 mill. tough luck buddy 😉
Income based fines makes it fair for everyone.
To loose a certain % or the equivalent in working days of your income has the same more of 16:35 burden for everyone than a fixed fine at 100€ or $. For example someone with a low income of 1000€/$ , 100€/$ is 10% as for someone with 10000€\$ income it’s only 1%. But 43 working days average pay or 10% of the income hits the budgets available almost equal even though those with higher income might have more in their bank accounts available than those with lower income.
But those with low income don’t have to pay the whole amount in one transaction, there are paying plans available for them at least as I know here in Germany.
when i first found out that there are some countries that only have flat fines i was dumbfounded. there really isnt a single argument you could make why a rich person should pay a little fine if they drive 100kmh over the limit or do whatever else and get caught. it just basically makes it legal for them because the amount didnt mean anything to them.
and while the system definitely here is way better it still favors the rich.
Lets say that a poor person uses 90% of their income on necesities and the 10% is left for whatever, while the rich person might spend 10% on necesities and 90% is for whatever.
in theory the rich guy could lose 50% his income everyday and still be fine, but there is no way the poor could lose 50% of their income and be fine.
Literally the only reason is that they just dont want bigger fines for themselves.
Just voi wide is your income between economic classes. In Finland part time Warner makes 1500€ and the CEO of nokia makes around 1.2 million per month
Pretty sure that it's calculated based on last years total income. And how much you have in the bank. And how much your propertis or companies are worth. Similar to how taxes work
At the same time, someone assaults you in Finland, they might get of with really small fines, while speeding is punished expensively...