Thank you for all your videos! I have been doing this for 20 years and still learn tricks and techniques I never thought of. Keep the great videos coming!!
oh Man! God Bless you! Thank you for this class! Please dont stop to teach! I am just starting to work with finish carpetry. You inspired me a lot! Thanks Ron!
Thanks for this series. I've been in residential construction my entire life but I have adhd and dyslexia, so things like this confuse me no matter how much I try to focus. I've never needed to run crown on a sloped ceiling before but have a job coming up that will involve it. This couldn't have been explained any better. From one carpenter to another i greatly appreciate the time you took to explain this.
Thanks Ron, you are detailed and creative. You have changed the way I work. I liked the project flow from getting the call to setting up the job. Now I see that it was a scenario. I would like to see how you would wrap up the job and talk about the bill and finalising details with the client. This was a long video, there was more repartition than I needed. Thanks for sharing so generously.
Thank you for all the videos on crown modeling installation, measuring, and cutting. I'm going to be finishing a 3-seasons porch I built and haven't done crown modeling before. Your tips and jigs will be invaluable and I have a bit more confidence that I can end up with a professional looking job.
I just installed crown on a vaulted ceiling this weekend. To answer some questions, yes the spring angle changes on the flat wall. My drop (down from the ceiling) was 4.125 in on both walls. But the gap (along ceiling behind crown) was 2.25 in but on the flat wall, this changed to 1.00 in on a 12:4.8 slope. On the flat wall, it is basically decorative baseboard. BUT..... It was fast, easy, and looks good. Saturday I built my jigs and ripped the back of the crown. Sunday I installed it all by myself. Saturday I watched vids on the triangle transition piece. Yes, it can be done but for a novice weekender, a lot more challenging. Thanks for the informative videos. Workbench is next.
To be clear the spring angle for the cut doesn't change. But, when installing the vault the crown is rolled up which is a different spring angle. When transitioning from the vault to flat that same installed spring angle remains the same for the flat as the vault. It is not necessary to know what the installed spring angle is as the cut isn't affected. An alternative is to use a transition "pie" shaped piece which I have done for years, but this method looks better and more professional IMHO.
Great Job.. I really appreciate the tip on knocking off the back side of the crown. I cope even widow trim that a lot of people are not even installing anymore. Just a note: I have been using a small disk grinder that has speed my coping up.
WOW! I've got 1800 square feet of rooms that are all faulted and I got to do all the crown and I've been looking through videos all day long waiting to come across something just like this. Your little plywood jig that sits on the table saw is really cool 😎
My wife suggested to me that I should install crown molding throughout our house, but I thought it would be too difficult to do. However, after watching your series of crown molding videos, I felt very comfortable starting (and completing) this home project covering 2400 sq ft! All of the details from measuring, coping, tools to use, jigs to make, miter saw setup and cutting techniques were all invaluable! I even had a vaulted ceiling to deal with which also came out beautifully. For the vaulted ceiling I did create another jig for insuring the molding sat at the correct angle to ceiling and wall. I also had to deal with two corner transitions from a flat ceiling to vaulted ceiling. For that I found another on-line video that someone created showing how to build a "corner box" to hide the transitions from flat to vaulted. Thank you very much for providing the crown molding videos. When friends visit, they cannot believe I installed crown molding and how beautiful it looks!
A tradition piece works great, but does take a bit of math and skill which = time. This method will only work up to a certain pitch and then the transition piece is required. I might make a video demonstrating that method when I get a chance.
I once saw a painter filling a gap in the mitered crown with a massive bead of caulking. Trim carpenter (if you can call him that) left almost a 1/4" gap on every corner because "nothing es ever square"Great Video, thanks for the tips.
Nice idea with the table saw jig. Got me thinking into trying a jig with my planner. All I have to do is put the crown on a board, give it a little pitch, put a kicker in from of it so the board can carry the crown through the planer and vaula!
Adam Anderson I was hoping the last few seconds would be a video showing the finished product. I think that house is the same one he does his shop videos in
I a m Star getting into molding i being have a great time figure out But my fort work i loose money because I did not know it will take me so much time but I am learning as I go. Thanks for you vídeo I did learn a lot
I like to cut two 2 foot pieces of crown before I start at 45 degrees inside., I take those and fit those in my corners and get them to fit perfectly and mark a pencil mark at the bottom. I know when I cut my crown if I put it on those pencil marks at 45 degrees they will fit perfectly and if for some reason my template pieces don't fit well at 45 degrees I will change them to either 44 or 46 degrees. This will give you a perfect Corner every single time without coping. I enjoyed your video
Jason Autry - You're thinking is exactly correct: don't doubt yourself. When Ron CUTS the pieces at the saw, he uses the same spring angle (as measured between the saw table and fence.) But after those same pieces are installed, if you would measure their respective spring angles in place (with respect to the wall and ceiling), you'd see that the spring angles are different, just as your logic suggested to you. As usual, Ron gave us a lot of good info in this video. But from your comment and others, I think a good opening statement for this video would have been: "Running crown on vaulted ceilings can be much simpler than you think --- so long as you understand that the pieces cut for the level walls will have a different spring angle *as measured when installed* than the ones for the sloped walls *when installed*, even though both types of pieces were cut with the same spring angle on the saw. I hope this helps.
I saw the same procedure for trimming the bottom of the crown molding on the Gary Katz video "Conquering Crown Molding" a few years back. He even had the same type jig.
Gary is the best and I have learned so much from him over the years. The crown ripping jig is something I learned from Gary. Gary has a publication called This is Carpentry: www.thisiscarpentry.com (Go Gary Katz)
Ron, thank you very much for all your videos. So, when doing doing the vault, both ends of the crown has plumb cuts, regardless whether the joining stick has an inside or an outside cut? You have such great content and professionally done
Hey Ron, at what roof pitch does this method fail? Like if you have a 10 /12 roof pitch where that horizontal piece to roof rake angle opens up so much that this method wont work. I've done a lot of crown like this where I had to cut the back side of the crown out and make a transition piece from the horizontal piece to the rake piece then go up the rake. Ok I guess by the time I finished writing this I see you are doing my method of cutting out the back side..... and I thought I invented it ...... Is that Mdf crown you're using there? In my early days I used to cope that stuff but dealing with the fragile sharp corner was too big a hassle for me. Also I'm not sure what you're talking about on problems of inside miters failing. Mine are still in tact and I've been doing them for 24 years. The problem with coping is not that its hard to do. Its just not a good solid joint, usually not even glued. The mitered joint has a better glue surface and done properly is much better than coping especially with that mdf molding. Also if the inside miters are so bad ... then why are the outside miters so good? since those can't be coped? I mean if all inside miters are failing after a year then can you tell me why the outside ones dont fail? MIne dont fail because I glue them correctly and fit them correctly. Ron you are an awesome carpenter, but I'll never give in to " Big Cope " LOLOLOL its so overrated But I have the highest respect for you and what you do, so don't look at my differing opinion in a bad way. Im a huge fan and I've built your bench big and small and I would even build the trailer plan if it would fit in my van : )
I re-examined your video and see where the offset went. I see a little gap you caulk out to fill the area for the vault offset. So .... that said ... you have to make a set gage to allow for the vault angle offset. .... got it .... that’s why your making the ripped relief cut on the edge of the molding. That angle would be in my cast 7 degrees or what ever that vault angle is. Thanks for the video.
Ron, much thanks for these videos. I knew how to install crown before this but not to the level of efficiency and accuracy that you have now taught me. I am general contractor who does all of the finish trim work. I have a large remodel/addition project that I am finishing in the Portland area. I have installed all of the 1500 L/F of crown with your method (worked great, cut every room at the saw and then installed with zero issues, all coped at inside corners!) I am writing you because the entry of this house is vaulted and this vault ties into a radius stairwell. I’m not worried about the radius. I am worried about the slope of the ceiling. It is a 9/12 slope. I am worried that the MDF572 cannot tilt at that steep of a slope. It is obvious that your video deals with a much flatter slope. I can see in the video how you find that sweat spot but for me this would have the flat edge (which should be concealed against the wall) be fully exposed. I would really appreciate your input on this. Can I use your technique on a vaulted ceiling that is as steep as the one I am dealing with??? Much thanks, Jay Timeless Builders.
Jay, I have only used this method up to a 6/12. I am not sure how steep of a pitch it can handle. At some point, it would be better to cut a transition from level to the correct pitch. I have done all pitched ceiling that way most of my career until I learned the method in this video. Cutting a transition isn't difficult, just cut one side as if it is level and the other side for the correct pitch. I haven't made a video on this technique, but I am sure YT has many already. Hope this helps😎🤙
I tried this method and the ceiling did not line up with the test pieces or the coped approach with the plumb cut. Any reason why this may have happened and what else I can try. Thanks.
I guess I have to ask a question here. You say that you cut the miter as if it were a flat ceiling when installing on a vaulted ceiling. I’m trying to get my head wrapped around what’s happening to the one piece of molding against the pivot point in the corner. That spring has to change slightly when installing the cope over the molding. For example ... I have a 7 degree vault. If I set the non vaulted side with the gage you suggest to let’s say 38 degrees .... now when I cut the cope for the piece going up yeh 7 degree vault has to accommodate the 97 degree offset from the non vaulted wall. Where does that come in to make that 7 degrees. That’s good video.
When cutting for a vault: 1. Cut all crown both for vault and flat at the correct spring angle. 2. Install all crown both for vault and flat at incorrect spring angle. That's it!
I have installed crown on all pitches up to 8/12 and it works the same. All you need to do is make a test inside and outside corner and check it out. All steep pitch houses I have built have been more rustic or cabin style so crown would not look good in those applications.
Yeah it doesn't work on a steeper pitch. The flat wall crown molding ends up almost flat against the wall. What about steeper angle roofs? Crown sucks, crown really sucks on vaulted ceiling.
I'm a diy newbie....so basically if the corner is 90 degrees I need to cut my trim at 45 degrees? Right??? Or do I make my cut 90 degrees??? Anybody???
My crown molding was set wrong in two walls. There is a gap not at the ceiling level but on the wall, more than that exceeds3/8” inches. One is set on a vaulted ceiling . How can they fix it without taking apart?
Ron. Once again. I use 2p-10 from fastcap and it takes 10 seconds. Inside miters are no longer an issue as most stock material is an mdf product. Thoughts? And have u used it?
I only use 2p-10 for returns. When it comes to long horizontal runs, movement over time is great and 2p-10 will break apart. Any inside miter will fail over time, usually in less than a year. I have found that copes are the only good option for inside miters and really are easy and fast. I can measure, cut, cope and install as quickly and the most productive carpenter cutting inside miters. Finish carpenters not coping have been very good for my business.😎🤙
Ron Paulk your other video series may have shown this but I haven't seen it in a while so I may have forgotten. If you splice a couple pieces of crown on a long run do you use regular glue or 2p 10?
Gosh I don't know how that fits. Flat ceiling inside 45 fits into a vaulted corner? I just don't see how that works with out changing the spring angle. I'll have to try it out.
Not my experience, but I have only had the opprotunity to install crown on vaults 8/12 and less. The spring is determined by the crown not the vault. If I were doing a 12/12, I might find it to be problematic, but all of the 10/12 and up homes I have built have been more rustic cabin style so crown was not an option.
You can't do a 12/12 with typical crown. A 38 degree spring angle is a 9.4/12 slope. If you had a 9/12 vaulted ceiling the level wall crown would be installed almost flat against the wall. A 12/12 ceiling would result in 45 degree spring angle crown flat against the level wall. If you used 38 degree crown on a 12/12, the bottom of the crown on the level wall would actually be out farther than the top of the crown.
Dave is correct. The reason the gap on the underside of the crown appears and needs to be run through the table saw, is the spring angle is being changed. You can get away with it with a low pitch vault like the one in this video, but go steeper, and the crown will start noticeably flattening on the end wall.
Coping that cardboard trim is really fast and easy, that's the truth. Maybe that's why I only work with trim made with real wood. I like, that next level of quality material.
The Media Is Cancer exactly. I'm a pro....well people give me money to do carpentry.... anyway, I teach anyone that works for me to cope inside corners. The minute it takes to cut a cope is time better spent messing with inside corners. Especially on old houses or where the taper/mudder left a mess. Inside miters are an exercise in frustration.
greg choma there's still the issue of house expansion and contraction, and wood shrinking and swelling. The cope joint holds way better with these conditions where a miter is more likely to open up etc.
Hey Ron. Thanks for the vids. I have been a subscriber since the Paulo Workbench 1. I noticed that you don't use CA glue with accelerator. I don't believe that you are unaware of this glue so there must be another reason that you aren't using it. Please . Do tell. I've been using it for miters and all other applications for several years wit no issues. Thanks again. Bob.
You don’t need to rip all the crown molding (when using 45 degree crown). Only the wall that has the OBTUSE angle. When “rolling the crown”, and altering the spring angle, the sloped wall crown will always sit flat on the wall, and the acute angle wall will sit on the sharp edge of the crown molding. Where the sloped wall crown meets the obtuse wall crown, you will just have to “knife off” the longest corner of the mitre to allow clearance at the mitre. If none of this makes sense to the viewers, it’s ok, your not a carpenter.
The spring angle isn’t 45 degrees. All the crown needs to be ripped in this case. Of course, I have only been a carpenter since 1985, built over 200 custom homes, many more remodeled so what would I know.😎
Yes, I understand. But I actually already had the jig for installing vaulted crown using the tradition method with a transitional corner. In that case, the rip is made on the top of the crown, but works the same. My point in this series is that if you are tasked with crowing a vault, then this method is easier than cutting and fitting the transition, plus the crown looks better this way than with the transition. It is really easy, if you know how to install crown on a flat ceiling. Hope this helps, Ron😎🤙
With all due respect, IMO, Coping is way overrated and unnecessary if you take the time to make the right cut,, besides, when you cope you end up with zero product on the coped side that attaches to the opposite-side piece of crown, thus leaving nothing to glue to (like with two outside corners, you end up with a full profile to apply adhesive to, ).... besides, some crown molding is next to impossible to cope because of the highly exaggerated profiles, coping them can be done, but its extremely tricky (sometimes blowing through the face of the crown) thus its very painstaking and Very very time consuming .
The value of coping inside corners cannot be overstated. Take a closer look at what a cope is and how it works. I covered it in detail in this series: ua-cam.com/video/O3l6DdfgGJA/v-deo.html
So you've made doing something architecturally incorrect, easier to do? In Greek/Roman architecture, cornice or cornice molding is part of the entablature (horizontal ornamentation of the beams, supported by columns. ) Greek/Roman architecture is the foundation of all subsequent, western style architecture. The fact that there are no columns or other elements of the assembly in the house, is no reason to make crown molding part of the roof. Besides, itt's only that your pitched ceiling is relatively shallow, that you're even able to do this at all.
@@TheSmartWoodshop OK, at least I am smart enough to recognize a little sarcasm. Honestly, don't you think you'll be a better finish carpenter, if you understand the various orders of architecture and the purpose and placement of moldings? There is quite a lot that carpenters routinely overlook or intentionally remain ignorant of and it reflects poorly on all of us. The blame lies mostly with architects, since it's their job to make plans but finish carpenters should know a few things too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen moldings installed upside down. Nobody seems to notice or even care but that doesn't make it OK. Try to give-a-shitshy yourself or at least don't belittle carpenters (like myself) who do.
At 2:30 there is a huge gap. It doesn’t work. I’m doing this right now and it doesn’t work. What the hell. Can’t anyone explain how to cut the angles instead of making some gimmick that leaves gaps. 3 part series and you didn’t mount a single piece of crown. No one ever actually puts the crown up on vaulted ceilings.
The "Gap" is caused because the crown is intentionally installed at a different spring angle than designed. It takes one modification to the crown to allow the trim to snug up to the wall. I covered this very point in this video at minute 10:00 .At minute 2:30 I am showing that the exact miter cut works for flat or vault. If I made the modification to the test piece before I demonstrated the corner fit, then it would be confusing to someone learning this method. I broke the whole process down in steps for easy understanding, but it requires watching the whole process to understand it. If you don't want to use this method, you can install the crown at its designed spring angle, but it requires a transition piece that is cut for a standard 90 flat corner on one side and then the other is cut for the ceiling pitch. It isn't difficult either once you know the simple math formula. Most of my career I have installed vaulted crown with the transition piece, but prefer the flowing lines this method provides over the other. When using the transition method, you still need to modify the crown, but instead of the bottom being ripped you need to rip the top as the gap is between the top of the crown and the angled ceiling. The jig I made and show how to use in this video was actually a jig I made for the transition piece method. Hope this helps, Ron😎🤙
@@TheSmartWoodshop it doesn’t help unfortunately. You don’t show any math. You put to “test” pieces up and then say it’s perfect but you never install a piece of trim. I’m so confused as to why all the videos are the same. They say “it’s so easy” but then never install a piece. Your test pieces have a gap but then you want me to believe that the 10’ section won’t have a gap. Why not install a piece to prove you are right. If I’m misunderstanding the method then I’m sorry. But I watched the whole video and I don’t see anywhere you explain how to cut it other than saying “cut it just like flat ceiling”. I’m frustrated because I almost never have this much trouble figuring something out on my own and have remodeled houses in past but finish carpentry is new to me. I make all kinds of things of all materials but my kind just can’t seem to figure out the math of this problem and everyone claiming to have a simple fix seems to be misleading intentionally or otherwise. A carpenter charged me 100 dollars to come install and show me how on two corners and spent 3 hours fumbling around and couldn’t close the gap. There should be no reason to rip an entire piece of trim. That changes the way it looks.
45 minutes to explain something that can be taught in 5 minutes. ( the cutting and angle explanations, not physically using the tools) Amazingly difficult to watch
Ron Paulk is the modern day Larry Hahn for finish woodwork!
Oh man! Larry Hahn "The Very Efficient Carpenter." I learned so much from him and his brother Joe.
I'm speechless as to how helpful and detailed this tutorial is. EVERYONE,,, WATCH THIS VID!
This information is gold. Grateful for the time you spend doing this videos. I'll be buying something from you even if I don't need it.
Ron, I absolutely love these teaching series videos. You are the best teacher I have ever had. Your techniques jigs Etc are extraordinary!
Thank you for all your videos! I have been doing this for 20 years and still learn tricks and techniques I never thought of. Keep the great videos coming!!
oh Man! God Bless you! Thank you for this class! Please dont stop to teach! I am just starting to work with finish carpetry. You inspired me a lot! Thanks Ron!
Thanks for this series. I've been in residential construction my entire life but I have adhd and dyslexia, so things like this confuse me no matter how much I try to focus. I've never needed to run crown on a sloped ceiling before but have a job coming up that will involve it.
This couldn't have been explained any better. From one carpenter to another i greatly appreciate the time you took to explain this.
Thanks Ron, you are detailed and creative. You have changed the way I work.
I liked the project flow from getting the call to setting up the job. Now I see that it was a scenario. I would like to see how you would wrap up the job and talk about the bill and finalising details with the client.
This was a long video, there was more repartition than I needed.
Thanks for sharing so generously.
Thank you for all the videos on crown modeling installation, measuring, and cutting. I'm going to be finishing a 3-seasons porch I built and haven't done crown modeling before. Your tips and jigs will be invaluable and I have a bit more confidence that I can end up with a professional looking job.
Extremely detailed, thanks for taking the time to make this video.
I just installed crown on a vaulted ceiling this weekend. To answer some questions, yes the spring angle changes on the flat wall. My drop (down from the ceiling) was 4.125 in on both walls. But the gap (along ceiling behind crown) was 2.25 in but on the flat wall, this changed to 1.00 in on a 12:4.8 slope. On the flat wall, it is basically decorative baseboard. BUT..... It was fast, easy, and looks good. Saturday I built my jigs and ripped the back of the crown. Sunday I installed it all by myself. Saturday I watched vids on the triangle transition piece. Yes, it can be done but for a novice weekender, a lot more challenging.
Thanks for the informative videos. Workbench is next.
To be clear the spring angle for the cut doesn't change. But, when installing the vault the crown is rolled up which is a different spring angle. When transitioning from the vault to flat that same installed spring angle remains the same for the flat as the vault. It is not necessary to know what the installed spring angle is as the cut isn't affected. An alternative is to use a transition "pie" shaped piece which I have done for years, but this method looks better and more professional IMHO.
Thanks Ron! Very informative. Appreciate your expertise.
Great Job.. I really appreciate the tip on knocking off the back side of the crown. I cope even widow trim that a lot of people are not even installing anymore. Just a note: I have been using a small disk grinder that has speed my coping up.
WOW!
I've got 1800 square feet of rooms that are all faulted and I got to do all the crown and I've been looking through videos all day long waiting to come across something just like this. Your little plywood jig that sits on the table saw is really cool 😎
My wife suggested to me that I should install crown molding throughout our house, but I thought it would be too difficult to do. However, after watching your series of crown molding videos, I felt very comfortable starting (and completing) this home project covering 2400 sq ft! All of the details from measuring, coping, tools to use, jigs to make, miter saw setup and cutting techniques were all invaluable! I even had a vaulted ceiling to deal with which also came out beautifully. For the vaulted ceiling I did create another jig for insuring the molding sat at the correct angle to ceiling and wall. I also had to deal with two corner transitions from a flat ceiling to vaulted ceiling. For that I found another on-line video that someone created showing how to build a "corner box" to hide the transitions from flat to vaulted. Thank you very much for providing the crown molding videos. When friends visit, they cannot believe I installed crown molding and how beautiful it looks!
EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! I am about to do a vaulted ceiling and had no idea how to do it! I was dreading it now I can't wait to do it. Thanks Paul!
Same.
Thank you so much for sharing this! Had no idea it was that easy!
That is a great way to install crown on a vault. I’ve been cutting the extra pie shaped piece for years.
A tradition piece works great, but does take a bit of math and skill which = time. This method will only work up to a certain pitch and then the transition piece is required. I might make a video demonstrating that method when I get a chance.
Thanks again Ron!
I once saw a painter filling a gap in the mitered crown with a massive bead of caulking. Trim carpenter (if you can call him that) left almost a 1/4" gap on every corner because "nothing es ever square"Great Video, thanks for the tips.
Nice idea with the table saw jig. Got me thinking into trying a jig with my planner. All I have to do is put the crown on a board, give it a little pitch, put a kicker in from of it so the board can carry the crown through the planer and vaula!
I was so looking forward to the reveal of the finished project. Great series none the less.
Adam Anderson
I was hoping the last few seconds would be a video showing the finished product. I think that house is the same one he does his shop videos in
I a m Star getting into molding i being have a great time figure out But my fort work i loose money because I did not know it will take me so much time but I am learning as I go. Thanks for you vídeo I did learn a lot
Excellent vid
many thanks for sharing your knowledge I appreciate it. I will definitely be using it .
Professional job 👍👍
I like to cut two 2 foot pieces of crown before I start at 45 degrees inside., I take those and fit those in my corners and get them to fit perfectly and mark a pencil mark at the bottom. I know when I cut my crown if I put it on those pencil marks at 45 degrees they will fit perfectly and if for some reason my template pieces don't fit well at 45 degrees I will change them to either 44 or 46 degrees. This will give you a perfect Corner every single time without coping. I enjoyed your video
You are awesome. Thank you so much. Now I'm not intimidates to do my ceiling
Jason Autry - You're thinking is exactly correct: don't doubt yourself. When Ron CUTS the pieces at the saw, he uses the same spring angle (as measured between the saw table and fence.) But after those same pieces are installed, if you would measure their respective spring angles in place (with respect to the wall and ceiling), you'd see that the spring angles are different, just as your logic suggested to you. As usual, Ron gave us a lot of good info in this video. But from your comment and others, I think a good opening statement for this video would have been: "Running crown on vaulted ceilings can be much simpler than you think --- so long as you understand that the pieces cut for the level walls will have a different spring angle *as measured when installed* than the ones for the sloped walls *when installed*, even though both types of pieces were cut with the same spring angle on the saw. I hope this helps.
I saw the same procedure for trimming the bottom of the crown molding on the Gary Katz video "Conquering Crown Molding" a few years back. He even had the same type jig.
Gary is the best and I have learned so much from him over the years. The crown ripping jig is something I learned from Gary. Gary has a publication called This is Carpentry: www.thisiscarpentry.com (Go Gary Katz)
Ron, thank you very much for all your videos. So, when doing doing the vault, both ends of the crown has plumb cuts, regardless whether the joining stick has an inside or an outside cut?
You have such great content and professionally done
How do you cope a strait wall going into an angle ceiling. Or will this still never change?
I feel like I should send you a check for every job I do. Thanks
So on what degree you set the miter saw on the plumb cut ?
OK, gracias por sus videos, thanks for your videos
J.M.Castilla@2018
I noticed no pads on the top of the ladder. Aren't you worried about damaging the drywall?
Hey Ron, what if you have a outside corner that right at the corner the ceiling goes from vaulted to flat.
Hey Ron, at what roof pitch does this method fail? Like if you have a 10 /12 roof pitch where that horizontal piece to roof rake angle opens up so much that this method wont work. I've done a lot of crown like this where I had to cut the back side of the crown out and make a transition piece from the horizontal piece to the rake piece then go up the rake.
Ok I guess by the time I finished writing this I see you are doing my method of cutting out the back side..... and I thought I invented it ......
Is that Mdf crown you're using there? In my early days I used to cope that stuff but dealing with the fragile sharp corner was too big a hassle for me. Also I'm not sure what you're talking about on problems of inside miters failing. Mine are still in tact and I've been doing them for 24 years. The problem with coping is not that its hard to do. Its just not a good solid joint, usually not even glued. The mitered joint has a better glue surface and done properly is much better than coping especially with that mdf molding.
Also if the inside miters are so bad ... then why are the outside miters so good? since those can't be coped? I mean if all inside miters are failing after a year then can you tell me why the outside ones dont fail?
MIne dont fail because I glue them correctly and fit them correctly. Ron you are an awesome carpenter, but I'll never give in to " Big Cope " LOLOLOL its so overrated
But I have the highest respect for you and what you do, so don't look at my differing opinion in a bad way. Im a huge fan and I've built your bench big and small and I would even build the trailer plan if it would fit in my van : )
I re-examined your video and see where the offset went. I see a little gap you caulk out to fill the area for the vault offset. So .... that said ... you have to make a set gage to allow for the vault angle offset. .... got it .... that’s why your making the ripped relief cut on the edge of the molding. That angle would be in my cast 7 degrees or what ever that vault angle is. Thanks for the video.
Do you mitre the 90 degrees corners on a 46 degree? Just wondering because you cut the 45 degrees at a 23 for corner build up.
Ron, much thanks for these videos. I knew how to install crown before this but not to the level of efficiency and accuracy that you have now taught me. I am general contractor who does all of the finish trim work. I have a large remodel/addition project that I am finishing in the Portland area. I have installed all of the 1500 L/F of crown with your method (worked great, cut every room at the saw and then installed with zero issues, all coped at inside corners!) I am writing you because the entry of this house is vaulted and this vault ties into a radius stairwell. I’m not worried about the radius. I am worried about the slope of the ceiling. It is a 9/12 slope. I am worried that the MDF572 cannot tilt at that steep of a slope. It is obvious that your video deals with a much flatter slope. I can see in the video how you find that sweat spot but for me this would have the flat edge (which should be concealed against the wall) be fully exposed. I would really appreciate your input on this. Can I use your technique on a vaulted ceiling that is as steep as the one I am dealing with???
Much thanks,
Jay
Timeless Builders.
Jay, I have only used this method up to a 6/12. I am not sure how steep of a pitch it can handle. At some point, it would be better to cut a transition from level to the correct pitch. I have done all pitched ceiling that way most of my career until I learned the method in this video. Cutting a transition isn't difficult, just cut one side as if it is level and the other side for the correct pitch. I haven't made a video on this technique, but I am sure YT has many already. Hope this helps😎🤙
I tried this method and the ceiling did not line up with the test pieces or the coped approach with the plumb cut. Any reason why this may have happened and what else I can try. Thanks.
I guess I have to ask a question here. You say that you cut the miter as if it were a flat ceiling when installing on a vaulted ceiling. I’m trying to get my head wrapped around what’s happening to the one piece of molding against the pivot point in the corner. That spring has to change slightly when installing the cope over the molding. For example ... I have a 7 degree vault. If I set the non vaulted side with the gage you suggest to let’s say 38 degrees .... now when I cut the cope for the piece going up yeh 7 degree vault has to accommodate the 97 degree offset from the non vaulted wall. Where does that come in to make that 7 degrees. That’s good video.
When cutting for a vault: 1. Cut all crown both for vault and flat at the correct spring angle. 2. Install all crown both for vault and flat at incorrect spring angle. That's it!
What do you do about the gaps to fill them?
The top and bottom are caulked to the wall and nail holes are filled with spackel. No gaps in joinery to fill.
Ron Paulk thanks!!!
I'll try asking one more time. Does this only work for certain roof pitches?
I have installed crown on all pitches up to 8/12 and it works the same. All you need to do is make a test inside and outside corner and check it out. All steep pitch houses I have built have been more rustic or cabin style so crown would not look good in those applications.
Cool thanks
Unfortunately my house is 10/12
Yeah it doesn't work on a steeper pitch. The flat wall crown molding ends up almost flat against the wall. What about steeper angle roofs? Crown sucks, crown really sucks on vaulted ceiling.
I'm a diy newbie....so basically if the corner is 90 degrees I need to cut my trim at 45 degrees? Right??? Or do I make my cut 90 degrees??? Anybody???
My crown molding was set wrong in two walls. There is a gap not at the ceiling level but on the wall, more than that exceeds3/8” inches. One is set on a vaulted ceiling . How can they fix it without taking apart?
I would take it down and install correctly😎
@@TheSmartWoodshop Thanks.
well damn, the only reason I was considering molding was to route wires across a room. Coping will not allow the wires to go around corners.
you could drill a hole in the molding that fits tight to the wall behind where the coped piece fits.
Ron. Once again. I use 2p-10 from fastcap and it takes 10 seconds. Inside miters are no longer an issue as most stock material is an mdf product. Thoughts? And have u used it?
I only use 2p-10 for returns. When it comes to long horizontal runs, movement over time is great and 2p-10 will break apart. Any inside miter will fail over time, usually in less than a year. I have found that copes are the only good option for inside miters and really are easy and fast. I can measure, cut, cope and install as quickly and the most productive carpenter cutting inside miters. Finish carpenters not coping have been very good for my business.😎🤙
Ron Paulk your other video series may have shown this but I haven't seen it in a while so I may have forgotten. If you splice a couple pieces of crown on a long run do you use regular glue or 2p 10?
ua-cam.com/video/SRRlChp8irk/v-deo.html&index=5&list=PLB1ATCukiUGTqS21fwl_JTgIsuEbQHKnL
Ok, so that is easier, but it does kick out the bottom edge slightly. I guess you just use a thicker bead of caulking?
Oh sorry, didn't watch the end of the video. LOL
The cheese piece is necessary and you know it.... you're twisting the crown on the horizontal which makes for a heavy caulk.
The miter saws are not off 90. The corner is 90, true, but the actual cut angle is a 45
Gosh I don't know how that fits. Flat ceiling inside 45 fits into a vaulted corner? I just don't see how that works with out changing the spring angle. I'll have to try it out.
Jason Autry it does change the spring angle, you have to cut the back on a table saw. But just simpler then making a 3 piece corner.
Can you please explain how to do that on the table saw?
It is clear at all , he does not explain on the video how this will come out
It is not clear at all*
Does anyone know how to cut 16 inch crown?
chainsaw
The spring angles will not be the same for adjacent pieces of each corner. The steeper the pitch the worse it will look.
Not my experience, but I have only had the opprotunity to install crown on vaults 8/12 and less. The spring is determined by the crown not the vault. If I were doing a 12/12, I might find it to be problematic, but all of the 10/12 and up homes I have built have been more rustic cabin style so crown was not an option.
You can't do a 12/12 with typical crown. A 38 degree spring angle is a 9.4/12 slope. If you had a 9/12 vaulted ceiling the level wall crown would be installed almost flat against the wall. A 12/12 ceiling would result in 45 degree spring angle crown flat against the level wall. If you used 38 degree crown on a 12/12, the bottom of the crown on the level wall would actually be out farther than the top of the crown.
Dave is correct. The reason the gap on the underside of the crown appears and needs to be run through the table saw, is the spring angle is being changed. You can get away with it with a low pitch vault like the one in this video, but go steeper, and the crown will start noticeably flattening on the end wall.
Coping that cardboard trim is really fast and easy, that's the truth. Maybe that's why I only work with trim made with real wood. I like, that next level of quality material.
I don't know why people are resistant to coping. I'm an amateur and coping is easier than miters to me.
The Media Is Cancer exactly. I'm a pro....well people give me money to do carpentry.... anyway, I teach anyone that works for me to cope inside corners. The minute it takes to cut a cope is time better spent messing with inside corners. Especially on old houses or where the taper/mudder left a mess. Inside miters are an exercise in frustration.
Haha "I'm a pro....well people give me money to do carpentry.... " sometimes I feel that way too.
Hmmm. What if a person had no problem making tight insides miters quickly and easily? Cope anyway? Don't think so Tim.
greg choma there's still the issue of house expansion and contraction, and wood shrinking and swelling. The cope joint holds way better with these conditions where a miter is more likely to open up etc.
I don't think you even know what we are talking about.
Hey Ron. Thanks for the vids. I have been a subscriber since the Paulo Workbench 1. I noticed that you don't use CA glue with accelerator. I don't believe that you are unaware of this glue so there must be another reason that you aren't using it. Please . Do tell. I've been using it for miters and all other applications for several years wit no issues. Thanks again. Bob.
I only use 2p10 for returns, etc.. For long material, I depend on copes with no glue for inside and woodglue with clamps or micro pins for outside.
So you’re telling me that same exact piece used for 90° inside corners is the same EXACT nothing different piece used for that vaulted ceilings ?
yes
@@TheSmartWoodshop that’s insane how does that work? I guess bc the spring angle is being changed slightly too when moving it to that angle?
You don’t need to rip all the crown molding (when using 45 degree crown). Only the wall that has the OBTUSE angle. When “rolling the crown”, and altering the spring angle, the sloped wall crown will always sit flat on the wall, and the acute angle wall will sit on the sharp edge of the crown molding.
Where the sloped wall crown meets the obtuse wall crown, you will just have to “knife off” the longest corner of the mitre to allow clearance at the mitre. If none of this makes sense to the viewers, it’s ok, your not a carpenter.
The spring angle isn’t 45 degrees. All the crown needs to be ripped in this case. Of course, I have only been a carpenter since 1985, built over 200 custom homes, many more remodeled so what would I know.😎
And having to build table saw jigs for this dosen't seem like vaulted crown is so easy
Yes, I understand. But I actually already had the jig for installing vaulted crown using the tradition method with a transitional corner. In that case, the rip is made on the top of the crown, but works the same. My point in this series is that if you are tasked with crowing a vault, then this method is easier than cutting and fitting the transition, plus the crown looks better this way than with the transition. It is really easy, if you know how to install crown on a flat ceiling. Hope this helps, Ron😎🤙
With all due respect, IMO, Coping is way overrated and unnecessary if you take the time to make the right cut,, besides, when you cope you end up with zero product on the coped side that attaches to the opposite-side piece of crown, thus leaving nothing to glue to (like with two outside corners, you end up with a full profile to apply adhesive to, ).... besides, some crown molding is next to impossible to cope because of the highly exaggerated profiles, coping them can be done, but its extremely tricky (sometimes blowing through the face of the crown) thus its very painstaking and Very very time consuming .
Michigan Crown Molding Tony you don’t need to glue a coped corner cause it’s never going to separate. Hence the fact of coping.
The value of coping inside corners cannot be overstated. Take a closer look at what a cope is and how it works. I covered it in detail in this series: ua-cam.com/video/O3l6DdfgGJA/v-deo.html
You are making it too flat to the wall that is why you are removing the back of the bottom edge
uh.... I think your arm swallowed a baseball.
So you've made doing something architecturally incorrect, easier to do?
In Greek/Roman architecture, cornice or cornice molding is part of the entablature (horizontal ornamentation of the beams, supported by columns. )
Greek/Roman architecture is the foundation of all subsequent, western style architecture.
The fact that there are no columns or other elements of the assembly in the house, is no reason to make crown molding part of the roof.
Besides, itt's only that your pitched ceiling is relatively shallow, that you're even able to do this at all.
James, you are so smart. I am humbled and honored you have taken the time to enlighten us lowly woodworkers. 😎🤙
@@TheSmartWoodshop OK, at least I am smart enough to recognize a little sarcasm. Honestly, don't you think you'll be a better finish carpenter, if you understand the various orders of architecture and the purpose and placement of moldings?
There is quite a lot that carpenters routinely overlook or intentionally remain ignorant of and it reflects poorly on all of us.
The blame lies mostly with architects, since it's their job to make plans but finish carpenters should know a few things too.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen moldings installed upside down. Nobody seems to notice or even care but that doesn't make it OK.
Try to give-a-shitshy yourself or at least don't belittle carpenters (like myself) who do.
At 2:30 there is a huge gap. It doesn’t work. I’m doing this right now and it doesn’t work. What the hell. Can’t anyone explain how to cut the angles instead of making some gimmick that leaves gaps.
3 part series and you didn’t mount a single piece of crown. No one ever actually puts the crown up on vaulted ceilings.
The "Gap" is caused because the crown is intentionally installed at a different spring angle than designed. It takes one modification to the crown to allow the trim to snug up to the wall. I covered this very point in this video at minute 10:00 .At minute 2:30 I am showing that the exact miter cut works for flat or vault. If I made the modification to the test piece before I demonstrated the corner fit, then it would be confusing to someone learning this method. I broke the whole process down in steps for easy understanding, but it requires watching the whole process to understand it. If you don't want to use this method, you can install the crown at its designed spring angle, but it requires a transition piece that is cut for a standard 90 flat corner on one side and then the other is cut for the ceiling pitch. It isn't difficult either once you know the simple math formula. Most of my career I have installed vaulted crown with the transition piece, but prefer the flowing lines this method provides over the other. When using the transition method, you still need to modify the crown, but instead of the bottom being ripped you need to rip the top as the gap is between the top of the crown and the angled ceiling. The jig I made and show how to use in this video was actually a jig I made for the transition piece method. Hope this helps, Ron😎🤙
@@TheSmartWoodshop it doesn’t help unfortunately. You don’t show any math. You put to “test” pieces up and then say it’s perfect but you never install a piece of trim. I’m so confused as to why all the videos are the same. They say “it’s so easy” but then never install a piece. Your test pieces have a gap but then you want me to believe that the 10’ section won’t have a gap. Why not install a piece to prove you are right. If I’m misunderstanding the method then I’m sorry. But I watched the whole video and I don’t see anywhere you explain how to cut it other than saying “cut it just like flat ceiling”. I’m frustrated because I almost never have this much trouble figuring something out on my own and have remodeled houses in past but finish carpentry is new to me. I make all kinds of things of all materials but my kind just can’t seem to figure out the math of this problem and everyone claiming to have a simple fix seems to be misleading intentionally or otherwise. A carpenter charged me 100 dollars to come install and show me how on two corners and spent 3 hours fumbling around and couldn’t close the gap.
There should be no reason to rip an entire piece of trim. That changes the way it looks.
A lot of talking with very little explaining in this series.
45 minutes to explain something that can be taught in 5 minutes.
( the cutting and angle explanations, not physically using the tools)
Amazingly difficult to watch