I wish Disney knew that being passionate about your interests didn't mean you had to be annoying about them. Jane, Tiana, and Ariel were moving when they showed their interests and wants because the movies took them seriously and highlighted how important their wishes and interests were to the story. They really lost that spark
@@Marcuss99 right? It just makes this big lack of character. If your characters all have the same drives, wants, and personalities, why should we care about them
@@alicjakempisty2729 it's not even that they have no interests or drives. That scene in Raya when she goes " 'i'm kind of a dragon-nerd' in that adorkable voice is what I mean. If this was an older Disney movie, her interest in dragons could've been a beautiful moment where we get to know this person and what they love. I'm just sick of these stories not being able to take themselves seriously
Mulan and Ariel are good examples of dorks done right. Mulan was clumsy and struggled with following the norm but was smart and brave. Ariel had odd hobbies but researched her finds and had a real teen personality, being angsty.
Disagree! I think trying to follow the norm is what made Mulan clumsy. Every moment she is being herself, she is grounded, confident, skilled and graceful. You can see that when she is forced to try and act "like a lady" or "like a man". The moment she stops, there's no clumsy to be seen in her. Now the Little Mermaid movie I don't remember enough to argue.
I honestly think all these dorks were done right. I would never mistake Mirabel for Rapunzel or any other 2010's characters like what the blogger is saying. Their "dorkiness", while funny and relatable to us, didn't necessarily make them endearing inside the story. Mirabel caused trouble for her family by trying to be special, when she wasn't. She deliberately disobeyed her grandmother. Anna was focused on finding love, annoyed Elsa, and even told she can't marry a man she just met. Vannelope is sassier than the rest. Only her design was cute, but she's more confident and reliable than the average princess. Even her calling herself adorable is proof of that. I would never imagine Rapunzel or the others flattering themselves like that. Mei Lee from Turning Red gave me 2nd hand embarassment, and I don't think her dorkiness was ever presented as cute. Raya is mature. Yes, I recognize there is a trend, but I don't think it's wrong or uncreative. I'll argue the reason Mulan and Ariel are always people's favorite princesses is exactly because of their "adorkable" personalities. We have too many confident sexy female leads in superhero movies in other genre. Let Disney give us these clumsy characters.
Mulan was clumsy only when they were dressing her in "womanly woman" clothes - which was so not her element. I can relate to it - me in high heels and tight skirt - will be very very clumsy. But in her real element - she is not clumsy. She can be weak and clueless in training - like all men around her - but not where she is in her element and spirit. I loved that about her - its so real - we all clumsy in unfamiliar uncomfortable things and situations.
I think the other thing to note with Rapunzel is she matured as the movie progressed. She was socially awkward and naive when she first went out of her comfort zone (aka her tower) BUT by the end of the movie she is making a deal with Gothel to save Eugene’s life in exchange for her remaining Gothel’s prisoner. A very serious and sacrificial decision to make and she knew that. There was no awkwardness or out of place joke cracking in those moments. At the time the quirkiness of Rapunzel was unique and trail blazing, but now I agree it has become the boring default.
Yea! And I think the contrast worked very well for that movie. Most of the movie was very lighthearted and Rapunzel exhibiting her "adorkable" traits was largely what made it lighthearted. So at the climax, her seriousness made the tone of the scene more solemn, and I think that shift made the scene more intense and impactful from a storywriting perspective.
Yeah I think showing a character as young and naive and clumsy is fine as long as it’s for an actual purpose. Like for Rapunzel’s case, she experienced growth. A character who matures as the story progresses is understandable. A character who is “quirky🤪” because it’s funny is just… overdone
"Adorkable" is not the first thought I have when I think about Rapunzel. Rapunzels primary trait is not adorkableness, but spunk. She is easily the spunkiest of the recent disney princesses that I've seen (I have not seen all of them) and this spunk is something that definitely is missing from Anna.
It makes sense for Rapunzel's character to be awkward since she's been so isolated. But it is interesting that her awkward characteristics were turned into strengths.
The biggest problem with adorkable characters is that their personalities don’t fit their upbringing. Rapunzel grew up in a tower, so it makes sense for her to be awkward and naive, same goes for Anna. Asha has a lot of friends and a loving family, it would be much more fitting if she was more confident in her actions
Continuing on that, I think it fits Mirabel again, because she's brought up in a household where everyone except she and her grandmother have superpowers and they're all put under very heavy expectations. That could definitely lead to confidence problems and deflection humor.
@@houndofculann1793 but why does there have to be reasons for it? what if thats just the character's personality? ive not seen wish, not heard great things about it so i decided to not bother, but i see no problem with these personality traits in main female characters. for one, they can be very relatable to neurodivergent people. but my main point is, that there doesnt have to be a reason behind this specific personality of a character. i would like to see other personalities too, but i dont mind this one.
@@puppycatsbee there technically doesn't need to be any reasons, but it's much better from a storytelling perspective for the character's personalities making sense when compared to their experiences. Especially if said personality seems to be in conflict of the upbringing the story shows the character has had, that can screw with your immersion to the story. I haven't seen Wish either, so it's impossible for me too to really comment about that. But what I said about Mirabel is an example that even when there is a trend of these very same-y characters movie after movie, it's much easier to "accept/justify" that personality if it also makes in-universe sense for her to be that way.
It's less annoying with Rapunzel (obviously she was the first example, so it wasn't overused at that point) but because it made sense with her story. She lived in a tower for 18 years and only ever talked to 1 person. It makes sense for her to be awkward and childlike.
Рік тому+5235
AND that one only person she ever talked to, doesn't want her to grow up. Her mother/stepmother wants her to stay and be dependent of her forever, so she's granted to keep her in a childlike mindset.
She had still depths and showed her trauma, it's why I liked her but then people liked that character so much every other new disney princess became a carbon copy of her. At least that's how I see it
@@konstantinosp-a6447 idk what the comments were like 7 hours ago but I scrolled pretty far down and found only 1 comment talking about Asha. Everyone else is talking about the characters that they like. But honestly the trailer showed enough of her qUiRkY personality, to see she isn't much different.
@@mehorton2657I disagree. She was always capable of being serious. Her issue before the war stuff was that she didn’t want the life that was expected of her. She was afraid she had to lose everything about herself to satisfy a man and become a wife. That’s not her “clumsy, quirky” attributes. She’s shown as clever right away when she uses the dog to feed the chickens because she woke up late. She’s smart and compassionate. She didn’t want to be quiet, submissive, and be forced to rely on men for everything. She’s capable of doing things on her own which she shows when she was the very reason that they won that battle in the valley when she created the avalanche. She’s forced to be more serious, capable, outspoken, and clever with the men of her unit and that’s who she already was deep down, but wasn’t allowed to be. And who/what she was afraid of losing.
@@MihaelLawliet01 This! Mulan in the beginning of the movie is only awkward when she's being pushed and shoved into all of these aspects of being a proper bride-to-be on the way to the matchmaker, because she's not a dainty, ladylike, quiet little house-mouse. She's intelligent, which we see when she steps in and easily claims the victory in the board game the two men are playing (I assume it's something like xiangqi, the Chinese game similar to chess, and requiring a similar skill and intellect), but she also can't remember any of the things she's expected to because they're outside of her mindset. She's shown to be quite agile and graceful when doing things she's good at/comfortable with, like riding a horse, but ask her to properly pour and serve tea, or move with the delicate manner of a lady? She'll fumble and make mistakes because she's never been expected to do those things before. It's clear that she was never taught to be a lady of the house, and has been left to be kind of a wild child, so many of these social graces and such are foreign to her. She's not really in the same vein as the "adorkable" protagonists of modern Disney...she's unsure and tentative when in a new situation, which leads to her fumbling missteps, but when she finally finds her footing, she's confident, capable, and incredibly clever and capable of cunning plans.
Clumsy and awkward is not the opposite of clever and mature. Mulan is all these things. I think the discipline of martial arts just helped her a bit with her coordination and confidence (since she finally had the chance to work on a skill she found rewarding).
Mulan is so interesting. She wants to make her family proud and honor them, but at the same time she's so unique that the idea of being just a quiet, demure, extremely backbendingly obedient wife like her mom just isn't her. "Why is my reflection someone I don't know?" @@MihaelLawliet01
Speaking of the adorkable trope, I love how instead of making Lilo be this manic pixie girl they made her into an actual child who is coping from the loss of her parents and relates to Stitch's destructive personality. They made her personality fit into the story and her quirks aren't just used for laughs but actual conflicts.
@@BigBossMan538 Exactly!! Honestly the whole movie is really just a great allegory for found family and neurodivergency (Speaking as someone who has ADHD)
Merida was a great example of a young, stubborn, "princess" who was forced into circumstances she didn't like and tried to change only to end up causing more harm. She had depth and good timing without self deprecating. The creators allowed her to be good at something and showed this on screen. Modern Disney female protags feel belittling because they aren't really good at something. They don't have inner drive. They self depreciate to an extreme degree and lack confidence in anything. It almost feels like Disney's response to "give female characters more agency" was "make female characters meeker and more palatable". Since they don't have inner motives and drives or perceived confidence, they need stories that force them to save x. Otherwise they'd go nowhere. ((Moana was a bit different because she wanted to leave the island initially and wanted more for herself, but constant awkward self deprecating jokes undermine the determination and confidence she had in the beginning of the film when she's trying to explore).
Thank you! Like you made me sit here and really think about it. Ariel was curious, she wanted to learn more about something that was forbidden so much so that she became good at hunting down and analyzing things from the human world which led her into danger. Tiana wanted her business. She was a fabulous chef, and she wanted to make her, and her father's dream come true to the point that she prioritized nothing else and nearly no one else to the point that it sorta led her into danger. There is no way you could swap out either of those characters with another because their convictions, their personalities are so strong. I can't say anything like that about Anna, or, Raya, or Mirabel. Sure, they may have desires or convictions, but not ones strong enough to be very believable. Hell in some cases they're given an opportunity to get exactly what they want, but they don't really take it. Anna being the prime example of this. After barely seeing and speaking to her sister for however many years, during the whole time expressing an intense wish to speak to her, she tries to run off with Hans to get married. I can tell you now, Ariel is 16 and she doesn't have that "Adorkable" thing in the same way that Anna, (18) Mirable (15) or Raya (18) has it. She's naïve sure, and awkward when interacting with the humans, but not like the girls that come after her. I miss that kind of writing.
Well the thing is - brave is pixar film. I know disney owns pixar right now, but they are a different team. Team that is known for deep characters and really good storytelling. So. I woulndnt put merida in this discussion really. But yes i agree with everything besides that fact
Someone called it the Death of Sincerity and I think that's on point. Disney is afraid to let people sit in their emotions lately and it kills me that it's so common now.
Truly. I feel like Encanto was the biggest reflection of this. There were so many moments that could have been deeply moving, but instead of letting the gravity weigh on you, they would stick in a joke.
This is one thing I like about Tinkerbell from the Tinkerbell movies: she is grumpy, temperamental and can be a total b**ch. She makes a lot of mistakes and then in turn she learns from her mistakes, and has the help of her friends. I think Tinkerbell is one of the most unique female characters I’ve seen from Disney just because of how imperfect she is. I’m not a huge fan of Disney properties but I always had a soft spot for the Disney Fairies because I like the characters (and how whimsical the movies can be at times).
Tink is a lot of fun and I adored her growing up (tho I was born in 92) - she was one of my favs alongside the 90s princesses + Cinderella. I thought Snow White and Aurora were ok. I wish they would do 2D again - Tiana is awesome.
I completely agree. I think all the Disney fairies have unique distinct personality traitors that make them stand out amongst the rest. Despite how many characters we meet in those movies they all still feel unique in their own way. They could have easily recycled personality traights from one fairy to the next, but they actually made them distinctly different from each other and that’s what makes those movies great. It feels realistic. Just about any viewer can find a fairy that matches their personality because there’s such a wide variety of personalities in the franchise. It doesn’t just cater to one handful of viewers, everyone can see themselves represented. It’s great.
I think that there’s someone at Disney Animation who’s hellbent on inserting “Marvel humor” into their movies. The kind of humor that ruins serious moments
I learned a new word some years ago when watching why Marvel was annoying and more like parody, its called "bathos" humour, where they ruin a serious moment or buildup with humour.
There is a reason why Elsa is so popular; she has her own powers, is independent, strong, protective, mostly rational. I wish Disney would realize this. We need more princesses who are not just silly characters, even though I like them
I don't like Elsa at all because of her actions, but I agree. We need more diversity in Disney heroines. Adorkable girls aren't always relatable. Some girls are quiet and reserved.
@@EvelynL.1112Elsa is like if Abuela from Encanto was the protagonist. People who have been on the receiving end of that behaviour understandably won’t like how easy she gets off, but I think there’s immense value in having a protagonist who does something really shitty because she’s hurting.
I mean, in the first movie she was not really independent. She isolated herself because of her ptsd and other mental illnesses. She is more of a victim than an independent woman
When I first heard and saw the concept art for Wish and the design of it’s female lead, I really thought her personality was going to be shy/timid but very passionate in her beliefs. I would love it if Disney made a shy female lead.
Yeah! That would be great! With people saying that "they are teenagers" and that's why the act so quirky... When I was a teenager I was much more introverted and shy than im now, it would be nice to have that kind of representation, instead of always over the top excentric akwardeness (Violet from the Incredibles is a good example of an introverted shy teen, an I always loved her)
I don't like any horror movies with teenagers in them for this exact same reason, directors always portray every teenager as a dumb party goer that has to go to the party no matter if there's a killer out there, or by having them portrayed as sex crazed alcoholics who deserve to die. And if teenagers DON'T act this way, they've either had a traumatic past, are magical, or are the killer.
I found myself drawn to wish for that reason, I somehow predicted she would be shy and it would feel more like older disney movies in that way, but nope 😅
This is why I love Lilo from Lilo and Stitch. Yes she’s quirky and strange but in a way that feels nuanced and genuine. Her weird traits aren’t supposed to be cute or appealing- other than her cute design, her behaviour mirrors Stitch. She feels like an outcast, she has violent tendencies and is very morbid. The writers didn’t do this to show off how unique and different and weird she was compared to other female protagonists; they wrote her with these behaviours because it makes sense due to the trauma of losing her parents. She is lost and confused and hurt, sometimes she takes it out on others like stitch does. She’s very attached to stitch and forgiving of his bad behaviour because she sees herself in him and believes he too must be in pain and needs someone to understand him. Lilo is “adorkable” done right because she ultimately feels more grounded- like a child from the real world. Her peers might not find her endearing but the audience can certainly sympathise and may relate to her experiences.
The personality type fits Lilo so well because she's supposed to be, what, six? Rapunzel is pushed to 18 because they need her to be "of age" to be in a romantic relationship, but based on physique and behavior, she can't be more than 15; and the original Rapunzel is around 12!
UGH I love lilo so much. She feels like she is so outcast and weird and unlikeable. And she meets stitch. And she sees how the world brands him as unloveable and too different to be palatable. And she sees herself mirrored in him. So she shows him… love. If she can love stitch and stitch can love her, then maybe there is hope for them. Lilo actually makes me cry. She’s so lonely. And she misses her parents. God. I. God.
I think Rapunzel pulls it off the best due to her sheltered lifestyle. Her adorkable awkwardness is directly the result of being socially deprived her entire life. The other characters that followed her sort of just feel like cheap copies.
@user-gs6zj7dh2s Yea, but then again, Anna knew she was a princess and I'm sure knew the manners and stuff she had to know to look and act good or wtv yk?
Definitely, we're also shown and told that she couldn't possibly be adjusted to the real world during the story, with emphasis on her naivety and her lack of experience. I think most adults in this comment section are underestimating how competent children are when consuming media, because I disliked Anna A LOT as an 11 year old for her overly animated personality. I found her irritating and loud, and her clumsy humour disorientating and unrealistic. Shouldn't a princess be more refined? Is what I would always think. I preferred Elsa's regalness and quiet demeanour a lot more. She seemed more believable to me at least, even as a child; and I identified with her more easily. I like Ana now and can appreciate her character and naivety a lot more, but I definitely thought her quirkiness made her less relatable and likeable to me as a kid, funnily enough.
@@Tundralondra That's the thing she did know but, judging by her personality she probably most likely got nervous about manners in front of real people let alone a ball roll full of people since she's been locked away inside of her own home until she was 18. The woman was literally talking to pictures on the wall until she was 18. Over time her character development and personality have changed a lot! if you've watched Frozen 2 you'd know what I mean.
Thank you for including Esmeralda. HoND gets pushed aside all the time but it has some realistic characters, most of which could teach younger audiences a valuable lesson. (I know it was based off of a Gothic novel by Victor Hugo, but for a Disney film, it's fantastic. They did a good job of taking something dark and making it more digestible for kids.)
@botspaidbymsm6670 i think Anna is the worst offender of the adorkable because she felt like a copy paste of Rapunzel. Also i think people tend to forget everyone is kind of a dork for something. but does not make them the same person. From Avatar. Zuko is a dork and so is Soka and they have similar traits. but no one will ever say they are the same person.
I feel this is one of the reasons why I love the Studio Ghibli female protagonists. All of them are unique and manage to be their own character, but still follow the main characteristics that make them wonderful which is their determination (Kiki for wanting to succeed in her delivery service and find herself, Sophie to break her curse, Nausica to save her kingdom, and Chihiro to return home and help her friend Haku.). They all manage to have the determination on what they want to do, while still being diverse in personality and design-wise.
Eh, as much as I love Studio Ghibli, I honestly can’t really agree with this. It’s not so obvious for a first time watcher, but most role model female characters in Studio Ghibli films do kind of share the same core values, qualities and traits (kindness, stoicism, determination, a carefully measured amount of rage as to pronounce her courage yet her quirkiness…) - modeled after a very skewed image of “what femininity should be” through the eyes of Miyazaki and Ghibli’s other directors. Miyazaki might be progressive in a lot of ways, even in the representation of female characters to an extent (especially back in the 90s) - but the male gaze is still quite palpable upon further inspection. I think these are all admirable traits, but they’re embodied in characters which feel restricted by their creators’ cishet desire. Again, I love Studio Ghibli, but most people just seem to blindly hold their films up in a pedestal (and the few who do attempt at analyzing them often don’t do a great job).
The adorkable personality worked on Rapunzel because it was unique. But now almost every heroine's personality after Rapunzel seems to be a carbon copy of hers.
Yeah. Personally, I adore Rapunzel--but I think her quirkiness also makes sense for her since she was literally never socialized AT ALL by anyone but an emotional abuser. So for her character, it made a lot more sense. I also just lover her as someone who loves going barefoot and has long hair. But yeah, other characters need better characterization. Like, Anna is so neglected, I feel like she def could have and should have had more issues with being a bit jealous of Elsa for having more of their parents' attention, or if they don't wanna go that route, have her deal more with the loss of her parents and how she is still mad at them for the neglect too. Make her complicated!
The adorkable problem in Disney reminds me of this book I read called, "Planet Funny: How Comedy Took Over Our Culture," by Ken Jennings, where a huge comedy fan, ironically enough, talks about how the culture takes excess comedy to an extreme that people are unable to take things as seriously, to be emotionally sincere, or to be able to be as emotionally vulnerable as before. In adorkable characters, much of it seems to pander to audiences' emotional discomfort over far too serious situations, and so there always needs to be some comic relief, which is fine in some contexts, but it often ruins emotional moments. I'm also a huge fan of comedy, but the way comedy infects everything so that something is immediately seen as boring, overly sentimental, or sappy for jaded and cynical audiences if some serious emotional event does happen on screen, because corporations seem insecure that audiences are not going to mock a scene for being too emotionally vulnerable for them.
Okay, that really seems like a reductionist way of looking at media, especially Disney movies. Movies like Encanto, Tangled, Frozen, and others with funny, goofy heroines all have genuinely heartfelt and emotional moments without any jokes at all. I actually think movies aimed at children almost universally get this right (if anything, this is more of an issue with media aimed primarily at adults).
I think a big understated part of this is the facial animation. Plenty of teens are quirky, naive, and awkward, but they don't express awkwardness in their face and body language in the exact same way. But these girls' faces follow the same pattern. The eyebrow twitches, the eye movements, the smiles, the grimaces, the hand gestures, etc. it's all SO SIMILAR. That coupled with the near identical faces makes the trope even more trope-y than ever.
Ohhh!!! Good point! I would be interested to see an awkward and quirky character thats not exaggerated in her excpressions. I think 'turning red' had some of that with the main characters friends.
Yea, im awkward and naiive at times, but im more stoic in my expressions and gestures, especially when embarrased or anxious. Show some girls that stiffen up when talked to!
this is so true. i see a lot of pre-teens with a lot of deadpan awkwardness/quirkiness. If they are being expressive or humorous, it's usually not as over the top as Disney suggests. Many teens with subtle humor. The highly animated pre-teen girls I encounter in real life, I don't actually see that often. Most of the highly animated folks I see are usually older (like in their 20s), and I usually feel like they are trying hard to make me feel comfortable, come off as relatable or trying to sell me something. The over the top, self-depricating quirky sass comes off more learned than innate.
This was my main problem with the Wish trailer. Disney prides themselves on physical diversity, but what about diversity of personality? All the new protagonists act the same. Why not have a reserved, introverted character who doesn’t turn out to be evil for once? That’s what I thought we were getting with Cassandra in Tangled the Series. Finally, there was a Disney heroine I really related to, so of course she became a villain.
You may be on to something here. As Disney extends their physical diversity, maybe they're reusing the same personality so they don't accidently hit on any stereotypes that could be offensive? If everyone is cute, funny, and awkward, they won't be bashed for overdoing a racial stereotype.
@@taybug77Damn.. Why it has to be so hard? There's so many different boundaries these days, that it's just locked up all creativity. It feels like a fear of being offensive controls many creators mindes
@@helichetski hey I’m a creator here: no it hasn’t. People are afraid that they’ll cross those boundaries but they don’t actually know what the boundaries are. If they did, everyone would realize how easy it is not to play into stereotypes
Maybe they're worried about giving "negative" personality traits to a non-white character because they're afraid of public backlash and accusations of stereotyping. So they over-sanitize everything.
This is probably why everybody loves Luisa Madrigal. She didn't get nearly enough screentime, but in many ways, she feels both relatable and aspirational. She's a strong and generous woman, who's greatest fault is that she carries too much
I think the reason Mirabel doesnt get on my nerves as much is because not only does the film have much more interesting and layered characters to fall back on, but her behavior does seem to come from a defined place, or at least seems analogous to what happens to a lot of people in these situations. I've met a lot of younger and/or middle children who aren't as successful as their siblings, and they do tend to end up a lot more socially awkward because of that lack of confidence build-up and constant self-doubt. I think that the problem isn't necessarily with the traits themselves, just that the movie doesn't seem to want to drill into that aspect of her as much as it could have. Her humor could've been used to explore the ways that her family's neglect has affected her perception of herself, with constant self-deprecation seeping through the bubbly mask she puts on better reflecting how their toxic family has effected her specifically. She's just way too confident in herself, which I suppose Disney did to make her a better "role model," showing her tenacity in spite of her messed up upbringing, but I feel like the company's fixation on making their heroines aspirational rather than inspirational has destroyed their ability to make compelling characters. It would've been a much more powerful story to explore the family's trauma through Mirabel, only to end the story with not only Abuela confronting her trauma, but with Mirabel confronting her own. That way it's a reciprocal moment of the two of them finally seeing each other and validating the pain that they've gone through. But the moment feels markedly one-sided in the final film, as Abuela recognizes that the way she treated Mirabel was wrong but doesn't see the material effect that that behavior has had on her.
Yea- her like crippling anxiety in the face of a mountain of expectations had little to no resolution- I wish they explored it more. It would’ve been a much more interesting narrative that way
@@brycebitetti1402i don't disagree! I do think I usually see her as still having some positive self imagine/some self confidence is due to her parents. The movie has many moments of them telling her how much they love her and still see her as special just like everyone else. They made a point to give her self worth and stood up for her against Abuela.
Rapunzel works because of her situation, but also because her adorkableness is actually treated as both strength and weakness. Her naivete endears her to Flynn and the others because they are all world-weary, jaded people who have forgotten their innocence and dreams. But her naivete also leads her to be easily manipulated by Gothel. But the best thing is...her relationships with Flynn and the rest of their friends actually help her grow wiser and suspicious of her "mother".
Ah, yes, "Disney's for children, why are you complaining about it?" Tell that to the hordes of Disney adults who go to the theme parks despite not having children, the ones who collect memorabilia, the ones who are still out there waiting to have their princess moment.
Plus, parents screen what their children are viewing before allowing them to see it. Not so subtle messages will be memorized through songs and merchandising impacting how girls think they are supposed to be. It's gone from needing to be rescued by a prince to believing it's okay to be a complete social mess.
As soon as I saw Asha being adorkable in the Wish trailer I really wanted to see someone address this. I'm soooo tired of the same "cute, dorky, relatable, etc" personality every modern Disney woman seems to have these days.
Already the "THE GOAT TALK WITH DEEP VOICE! LAUGH!" thing turned me off from this movie, but then I saw THAT shit with Asha and was like... yeah interest completely lost.
@@theautumnwind8437 Yes. Because a trailer is supposed to be your best foot forward to entice people to watch a movie, and I can already feel how forced the obnoxious quirky modern girl persona is on this character.
Hollywood acts like there’s literally 2 types of women: • Adorkable quirky girl • Edgy punk baddie fighting the patriarchy who don’t need no man Literally no other personalities exist apparently, or they’re reserved for male protagonists
Thats why I love (old) Cartoon Network maybe they had those archetypes for example in adventure time but they did made them completly diffrent like Pb adorable quirky but also smart as fuck and a bad ass crazy scientist and marcy baddie dont need no man but also very sensitive woman that have a need to be noticed especially by Simon her father figure
I don't feel like Judy Hopps and Vanelope fit the adorkable trope. Judy is very mature, clever, and capable of getting shit done competently, but she has a sense of humor that doesn't come off as awkward or self-deprecating. Vanelope is a precocious child who pokes fun at Ralph, as precocious children do. Ralph is far more awkward than she is.
This! I feel like Judy and Moana both are skilled and smart but because they're paired with a wisecracking male best friend (Nick and Maui) it gets easy to lump them in with other quirky protagonists.
These movies are not made for adults anymore. We grew up and lost our imagination to bills, horrible jobs so we don't become homeless and taxes. The OP grew up and needs to get over it.
You’re right. I’m not like other boys my age who put stuff other than TP and human waste into toilets, overload the toilets with TP, etc. If that were the strict standard for boys my age I would fake come out as a trans girl
@@amberslahlize7961 These are both more widespread in, at least, US culture than current teenagers. I'm 40 and "Wait, what?" was common enough when I was a teenager in the mid to late 90's. Overuse of "like" dates back to at least the early 1980's and the teenage Valley Girl subculture of the time (and those who were teens at that time would be in their 50's now). If teens now are using these, it's probably because creators are referencing their own memories of teenagers and including nostalgic slang, reintroducing it to kids and teens who incorporate it because they saw it used that way in a show or movie, and so on.
it's the voice acting for me - it seems like all of the voice actresses for the modern disney princesses / main characters were given the exact same direction to sound like a quirky generically american teenage girl, which is wild when you think about how they're working with so many different cultures.
THANK YOU, I'm glad someone brought it up... it honestly pisses me off how they try to make the protagonists relatable by working with different cultures but only ever achieve that on a shallow, surface level. Their personalities and voices are the exact fucking same...
@@kant.68 i meant cultures as in the cultures the movie is portraying, like, for example, polynesian culture for moana - she still sounds american for some reason! and rapunzel is a western european story, frozen is set in what would be denmark, tbh there’s no reason for any of them to sound american when other characters in the same movies have accents!
Rapunzel's adorkable traits also added to the fact that she was raised by Gothel, who is in no way a good role model, but she sort of had this eccentric behavior that sort of resonated with Rapunzel's loud personality. Gothel had to make her think she was actually her mother, so she was never cold or that mean to her.
yes i was thinking that as well! it's kind of necessary for rapunzel to have such a personality because there's no way the story could've progressed without it. her curiosity, her bright composition, her childlike innocence bcos gothel denied her of any sort of maturity, not only is it reasonable it's a driving force of the story.
Plus Rapunzel grows basically alone talking to her pet and imagining his reaction. It makes absolute sense that she talks to herself. But in the case of anna, while alone, she cannot imagine her sister's reaction for she is an actual person, and she still had servants. What about moana or Mirabel, they've had exiting lives full of interaction, why do they talk to themselves so much, why so much self awareness 😅.
I completely agree with you! She was also incredibly lonely and board, so it makes sense she would joke with herself, talk to herself, and over all be a little over joyful. And when she was finally released from her tower, how could she not go run around and enjoy herself? She felt free, and also terrified.
If you like Rapunzel, you might be interested in the book What once was mine, that has a twist cause her power is not healing but hurting (killing) and transformation there it is explained that Gothel only rarely visits her and actually is not teaching her stuff, she has been teaching herself by reading books and that is where it stems from.
@@verina_crochet_gardenI may sound stupid but what book is it? I have the grims fairytales so I know it’s not that. Please don’t be mean I just want to know the book title
I feel like Judy's kinda awkward personality kinda fits her because even though she wasn't secluded or sheltered from the world like Anna and Rapunzel, she is a country or village girl and is not used to the city as much
I think Disney sticking to “adorkable” heroines is weird in a way because the reserved and elegant Elsa is WAY more popular with kids than her “adorkable” sister
@@mahi93162it definitely is 😂 the vid is right, but it's looking at it from a perspective of writing, which is something the adults writing these films should be thinking about.
@@scarletrosekat9444 Disney princesses/ female protagonists, in general. They're meant to appeal to everyone, including PERVERTS so they're supposed to resemble beautiful, sexy young women, The Little Mermaid might have been the 1st example, and then everyone after that. I haven't even watched most newer Disney films, but the ladies are the same: Sweet, beautiful, quirky, with big eyes & big expressions, it resembles hanging out with sweet young women, who are overly excited about everything, because they never did it before, *ahem.* ...And they're sharing their nerdy side with you, because they're so comfortable with you, eww
@@scarletrosekat9444 i dont think they mean like the MAIN audicience are perverts, but they definetely act like little girls but while also looking like grown women, just the type men usually go for... cute but sexy yk
Totally agree with this! Tiana was so determined to get her restaurant in memory of her father and she didnt have this adorkable personality, she actually had class and priorities. And the movies soundtrack was amazing, one of my favorites!
Behind every adorkable Disney girl, there is an overconfident, cynical man that uses humour as a defense mechanism for his traumatic childhood ( Flynn Ryder, Nick Wilde, Maui etc)
It's also so creepy that the Disney girls are now adorkable with childish behaviour, unthreatening, anxious/social messes while the men are very clearly adult men who are confident, mature, and are/or read as way older than their respective Disney girl (Flynn and Nick). Like why the f**k was Flynn, the love interest, so much older than Rapunzel when he could have been closer-ish in age to her? The gender roles/stereotypes are gross
@@valkyriedarquese and the fact Vanellope and Moana are both paired with grown big men whom they just happen to become besties with 💀 it almost seems like some pedophile at Disney made their dynamics.
@@valkyriedarquese OK, honestly, I didn't know Flynn was supposed to be that old. I thought he was, like, 23 or 24 at most? But honestly, I blame that on the character profiling department rather than its writing: a character is more often written with its role rather than its specific age in mind (rather, it's a more loose "age period" that gets taken in consideration), so his "technical" age could just be a held-over from previous screens. By itself, no one watches Tangled and says "Oh yeah, this is clearly a 25+ years old person" (and most likely, that's the same that happened with Nick, who doesn't feel at all like a man in its 30s).
@@drakegrandx5914 I love Flynn but it is undeniably creepy that he is 8 years older than Rapunzel who just turns 18 in the movie. As a kid I thought he was a bit older than her and obviously had more life experience but for him to be 26 is disgusting from Disney. He's a great character but let's not make excuses with profiling or writing. He's very well written so they didn't need to add the creepy age gap. Unfortunately there's a massive issue with large age gaps/predatory behaviour being normalised in media for girls and women
Vanellope gets a pass in my book because… well, she is a LITERAL child. Not even a teen, just an actual child- and a bullied/shunned child at that, similar to Rapunzel, it’s a given that she would be ‘dorky’ considering her ‘upbringing’ and age
I was younger than her when I watched the movie and I still couldn't stand her. Kids aren't all obnoxious and cringey. Vanellope herself was pretty complex and had really touching scenes, but it got overshadowed by how irritating she was
And also she’s surrounded by literal candy the entire movie, so basically a child who’s constantly on a sugar rush - which I think suits her personality perfectly.
@@Coby_Jack692.0 again, I honestly think you guys haven't been around kids that often. Even though me and my friends could be annoying as kids, we didn't like seeing that behavior on screen. Kids aren't always conscious about their own behavior, but when they see it in front of them they can tell something is annoying
Calling it a “slightly different face” is generous!! They’ve changed noses, but beyond that, the facial design feels like little more than a Rapunzel copy/paste job. I won’t deny that there was design overlap with the 2D princesses, but they were so much more distinct!
The 2d princesses I'd say looked quite different, given they all had seriously similar art styles. The versions used o. Disney princess marketing are tweaked to make them near identical but if you grab shots from the actual movies even those of the same race look distinct, even variety in how old they look despite only a few tears between most. Take cinderella, aurora and belle for example, different face shape, eye shape, hair textures. I'd say their builds are the most similar thing in them, but that's a different issue
Now that you mention it, I can defiantly see the similarities. All the recent princesses have circular-ish faces with chubby cheeks, big eyes and long hair.
@@poxidog That’s mostly what I was referring to! Honestly, the biggest similarity I was thinking of is the fact that Beauty & the Beast reuses the dancing animation from the end of Sleeping Beauty. But if you put Belle next to Meg next to Pocahontas next to Mulan and on and on, there is such beautiful diversity of design AND personality.
I never related to their faces, they look like the typical Instagram perfect face. They always have a button nose, big baby eyes and a heart shaped face - so the traditional beauty standard. Especially when everyone is a different race but they all look the same without their own ethnic features just continues little girls hating their noses, their long faces, there smaller eyes etc
I think this touched on a really interesting topic that could morph into a whole separate discussion which has to do with the way Disney delivers comedy in their more recent works. Sure, the main characters of old always had their comedic moments but in order for them to be taken seriously, Disney used the role of the “witty sidekick” as a vehicle for audience-relatable comedy. Think about Timone & Pumba, Mushu & Cricket, Ray & Louis; you can go back further to see this in the likes of Jacques & Gus-Gus, Flounder & Sebastian, and Lumiere & Cogsworth. The sidekicks of old were able to play to the enjoyment of the audience in a way that made sure the overall events of the story, and the main characters themselves, remained distinct, intentional, and grounded. Of course, Disney’s modern movies have kept the sidekick model in constant play, but there’s something about them that falls so flat in comparison to the legendary likes of Genie from Aladdin or Phil from Hercules. My theory as to why is that they simply no longer take the time to flush the sidekicks out well enough as their own solid characters. Compare the personalities and motivations of any of the above mentioned characters with the likes of Moana’s pig & chicken. At the very least, my little cousins aren’t racing through the park to get *their* autographs I assure you. I’d argue one of the following two circumstances is true for any modern Disney film: either the writers aren’t confident enough in their sidekicks to deliver comedic moments properly so they push that responsibility to the main characters making them less realistic and reliable (Moana), or they decide to write a quirky main but keep in the goofy sidekick causing an over-saturation of “comedy” that feels ridiculous (Frozen). Now I haven’t seen Wish, but I’d bet lots they were banking on that goat being a carbon copy of the Olaf/Anna formula. I also think comparison of comedic content itself in old to new Disney movies would be a really interesting deep dive. There’s an argument to be made in the use of “silliness” vs “humor” and I think Disney’s preference for the former in recent works is a real disservice. I remember absolutely losing it as a kids to the tongue-in-cheek bits in Aladdin and Lion King even though we probably didn’t really understand half of it. The comedy in their more modern works feels pandering and bland in comparison. Anyway, fun to analyze but I think I’m gonna go watch Mulan now.
@@pinapplegaming5781 nothing necessarily, it’s just that nearly ALL recent Disney female protagonists fall into the category of ‘dorky relatability’ & little else - the thing this video talks about
For the people in the back: Animation is a MEDIUM, not a genre! It can do horror, mystery, sci-fi, comedy, romance, thriller and so much more. At least in Japan they understand this, hence why anime has become so big, even here in the West.
It's so funny when you see westerners who just discovered a slighty messed up anime and their reaction is "this is problematic and romanticizing xyz problems!!". It really shows they've been mentally brainwashed by western society's idea of animation as being solely created for kids lol
Honestly adding Vanellopie here doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Van is a social outcast who is actually bullied relentlessly by her peers, and has been manipulated into believing that she was a glitch in her game, and that she could never actually race. Van is also supposed to be depicting a 9-10 year old girl, but with a snarky personality. She isn’t clumsy or quirky like the other female protagonists of her time. She’s a well composed “annoying brat” who goes through an arc to be more caring and trusting by the end of the film. Her saying she’s adorable was only prompted by Ralph anyway. She only reiterated what he said to give herself a boost in confidence. And she would say that because her snarkiness masks her low self esteem. Vanellopie does not deserve to be lumped with these characters because she shares the snarky personality trait. Her and Rapunzel couldn’t be any more different from each other.
YOU SAID IT RIGHT!! Van is a kid who is bullied and left on her own. Just as this commenter said, her snarky personality is just a way to build walls to show everyone she's not affected by what they say. She is still an actual snarky person at the end of the movie, but she learns to be caring and trusting. Which does not make her adorkable at all. She doesn't do anything that's really considered dorky or acts 'cute'. Yes, she is adorable, but she doesn't act how the typical 'adorable' person would. She's just a rebellious kid who loves racing. She isn't adorkable at all.
I agree. But I'd also say that it makes sense that Rapunzel and a little Anna are awkward. Rapunzel, especially because she was locked in a tower for her whole life, only talked to mother gothel, who was manipulating her. Of course she'd be naive and awkward because she's never talked to someone else before. Anna can also be excused to a degree. She was locked in the castle for most of her life, but she did have the staff and her parents to talk to. They take the adorkable personalty traits, but it makes sense, especially for rapunzel
I think you said it perfectly. For Rapunzel it makes sense; she's naïve and doesn't know how to socialize. She has been locked up since a baby with one (quite eccentric) person to interact with. I think with Anna it doesn't make any sense. Yes she only interacted with grown-ups and was locked from the outside world since childhood, but remember, she was locked up AS a princess. She is an heir of the thrown! You think the staff/teachers would let he act like a goofball all the time? She was practically raised with this responsibility looming over her.
I don't find Rapunzel hard to watch, because with all of her over the top dorkiness you still feel sympathy for her and can at least laugh. I felt like she was legitimately funny at times. Now I'm not saying I don't feel any sympathy for Anna, but I didn't find her nearly as funny, and she really just feels painful to watch. Rapunzel felt goofy for the sake of comedy and a good way to show she was new to the world she was in, Anna felt goofy for the sake of being goofy, and so does every other princess after her...
tbh I prob act worse than them on everyday basis so like watching some the scenes feels like I'm watching my past actions and then I get stressed about it so much like I love them so much but girl pull yourself together for at least a second you're making me suffer😖😖😖
I completely agree! For a couple of years I’ve been trying to figure out why I don’t like the newer princesses. You’ve voiced it perfectly. Rapunzel is my favorite and I’m a die hard fan of Tangled, but I wish they’d kept her unique and not try to make every girl the same. Also ever since they’ve started computer animated films starting with tangled, they have made all the girls look almost EXACTLY the same. So not only do the girls act the same, they look the same. Not in skin and hair color or texture, but their face structures for the most part are indistinguishable
Also their mannerisms and the way they move, gesticulate, their facial expressions. It became super noticeable in the side by side scene comparisons. Wouldn't be surprised if that is because disney re-uses animation reels to save money though, maybe that's also why the kept this archetype, cause it sells but overall saves them money during production.
I feel like everyone is forgetting how badly mirabels design was criticized for not being “pretty enough” she was a big departure from the Disney protagonist look
@@drawingdreamingangels honestly with encanto you have to praise the character design. Despite all of them being in the same family they are all still distinct. I was hoping that disney was going to start branching out with characters after hearing about how artists fought for luisa to be buff.
“And even if they were targeted to just children, shouldn’t children deserve to watch something that is actually good?” YES!! 100% Absolutely agree. Shouldn’t we as the creators want to put out something good for them? They deserve good movies!!
I was really hoping that Wish would be a return to more serious and sincere kids movies but I have zero hope or expectations, I'm so sick of *quirky* girlies and obnoxious talking sidekicks.
The goat would be more adorable if he doesn't talk. He could be like Gromit the dog, brave and kind plus it's fun to see his reactions. Too bad he speaks and told a joke about his butt 😑
I mean. That’s pretty much how trailer humor is. Yeah I was hoping for the same. But i was surprised when I didn’t watch such a bad trailer. Wish was kind of the most descent Disney trailer I’ve seen in the last decade to be honest. Yeah I’m tired of the adorkable thing too. But I hope Asha will only be like that when she’s with friends, running late, or thinks she’s alone. And I hope Valentino isn’t gonna make butt jokes the entire movie. I mean, I do get why it was placed there due to the…circumstances. But really, was there no other dialogue they could use?
When thinking about the heroine. I don't exactly think kids like the heroine. It's like if you go to a princess party, the kids will go straight to Elsa. Meanwhile, Anna is left out.
@@IceCoffee-dl8nm Rapunzel, Anna, Moana, Raya, Mirabel, and quite possibly Asha. Even without Judy, that's a lot more than three. And the other princesses all had distinct personalities. So no, YOU calm down with the "only been 3" please.
@@IceCoffee-dl8nm First of all I'm not complaining about shit, I'm merely saying that it's way more Disney Princesses than you're giving credit for. Raya is literally an official disney princess, for you to ignore that just to suit your argument is incredibly dumb and ignorant. Moana has other traits yes(and nobody is denying that so if you think they are then that's on you), but to say that she's not "adorkable" is being willfully naive. Did you not even watch the same video as the rest of us, where we literally see her adorkable scenes and how she gets the same "accidentally hit myself with my own weapon whoops! 🤪" joke as Rapunzel did? Or do you just like to hear yourself talk and convince yourself that you're in the right? "Rapunzel was locked away in a tower" give me a break. There are many ways to show that a character has suffered from trauma without giving them an infantilized/cutesy "I'm so awkward and dorky and silly!" persona. Quasimodo was also isolated from society and raised with an abusive parental figure, and yet he didn't act babyish and "adorkable"! Trauma doesn't manifest itself in cutesy palatable ways like it's shown in the movie Tangled, and Rapunzel's personality does little to nothing to show her trauma at the hands of Mother Gothel other than her being naive, having mood swings which are played for sick laughs, and her not trusting the people in the Snuggly Duckling(which doesn't even count because ANY young girl her age would be on guard around a bunch of large, scary, delinquent men). She acts that way because the writers thought it would be cute and marketable and nothing more. Mirabel I agree with though, but the rest of the family and her sisters are not main characters. Yes, they are major, but Mirabel is the main character, so stop diverting attention away from this fact to get your half-baked point across. And once again I never said that I hated it. So clean the shit out of your ears, please? And yes, I think I will go back and enjoy the old classic movies, thank you very much. I can do that and enjoy the new "adorkable" ones at the same time. But don't pretend like there isn't a trend that is worthy of being called out. Get your head out of your ass and learn to make a sound, solid argument.
As a kid, my mom wouldn’t let me watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame until I was older because of the darker themes. Bring this back, Disney. I want Disney films that explore darker themes and character growth.
Also if you notice, Ariel, Mulan, Pocahontas, Belle, Jane, Jasmine, Tiana, Aurora, Snow White, and Cinderella all had very different voices , ways of speaking, and personalities. Every princess or female lead in these modern movies all speak exactly the same way. They’re also weirdly childish and dorky when they don’t necessarily need to be. It started with Rapunzel and should’ve ended with her.
I agree about the voices. The casting has gotten very very narrow as far as what kind of female voices they will use for protags, they sound almost interchangable. Side characters though, I notice, can have more unique voices to differentiate. It's just the protags. Odd
@@vickyetienne2962 I get that, but not all teens have to have the same personality. I was clumsy growing up, my cousin never was nor did she have a child-like naive voice, she just spoke maturely pretty young. There needs to be variety. Rapunzel, Mirabel, Anna, Moana can all swap voices and there wouldn’t be a noticeable difference.
@@Jules2439.5 It's kind of understandable why 3 of them act that way: Rapunzel grew up locked in a tower, never meeting anyone in her entire life. Anna had a similar upbringing of never being around people. For Mirabel, it's probably just her personality, as socially awkward people do exist without there being a reason for it. Moana is the only one that I don't understand why Disney made "adorkable."
@@sailorselina9709 sure, i don’t disagree. But why do they all have to have such similar backstories and personalities in such close proximity to each other? I’m just asking for some variety like we had during the 90s renaissance. Also side note- I feel like this personality/persona/voice type is specifically to appeal to only small children, and it’s no coincidence that these princesses are starting to resemble coco melon characters. It just feels patronizing, I’d expect even my youngest child to resonate with a more mature character like Mulan, Belle, or Tiana because I was capable of it as a child, as we all were, which is why I think we all miss the old princesses so much and are feeling fatigued by the same old, same old. Maybe it’s just me 🤷🏻♀️
I'd also like to nomiate the Live Action Cinderella as a good example of a positive but not adorkable protagonist. She's nice but she also has an air of maturity and wiseness and we never laugh at her, and can really be a good role model instead of something I can "relate" to. Sometimes we need a variety and not just "OMG SO RELATABLE HAHA".
I agree with you, although I’m not sure how much that can be attributed to Disney. Lily James tends to play that character regardless of what role she’s cast in haha
Disney has forgotten that identifying with a character is not just physical. Having every 'good' character coded as zing adorkable cute!! is isolating for people who are shy, quiet, reserved, not funny, not witty, more mature etc.
Yeah, I never got the "omg they look like me!" stuff, haha. For me, identifying with a character was always about their character, not their looks. Like, within Disney, the characters I admired and related to most were Robin Hood (the fox lol), Ariel, and Aladdin. And I'm a white girl, so only one of those even kind-of-sort-of looks like me (by virtue of also being a skinny white girl - on the top half, lol - there's not much similarity beyond that). I honestly never even considered whether a character looked like me... though to be fair, I did really feel the lack of female rogue-ish characters, talk about an underserved demographic. I definitely agree that diversity of personality is a lot more important for crafting characters that are relatable to lots of people... especially cos even if one movie doesn't have someone you really relate to, the differences means the next one might!
Tbh you can’t understate how many people identity with Anna, Rapunzel and Mirabel They do this because it works and it only works because of how many people like these characters You can say that it’s isolating but you can’t say that people only relate to the physical part of it But there’s also a lot of side characters that aren’t adorkable and in the past there were often less female supporting characters as the stories would mostly revolve around the villain, the love interest and the female main character while now we have supporting characters that people like and can relate to, Luisa being the most recent example
@@aerialpunkYou’re a skinny white girl that’s why you never cared. Y’all are everywhere. Tiana was very important to Black girls like myself who grew up being told we couldn’t be anything, much less a heroine/princess.
@@aerialpunkif you're white you wouldn't get it lol. Identifying with characters because of how they act/personality is literally what everyone does. Seeing a character who looks like you when most never do is a new experience for a lot of people. Even more seeing a character who looks like you who isn't villanized/ sidelined just because they're not white
Definitely the ENFP main character syndrome. You see it everywhere, not just Disney. It's been plaguing Korean dramas for decades and it's so overdone. We need more variety of female character personalities! Down with the adorkable
You also have to consider why it worked for Rapunzel. She was literally a shut-in. She had no experience interacting with other people, aside from Gothel. She was fed lies about the outside world her whole life, so she was instantly on guard and confused when she was met with reality. Her character makes sense considering the setting and story. For these other stories, it's just "Awe, because it'll make her cute." Which makes it hollow and boring. Edit: Commented too soon, you addressed this later on. Sorry.
Yes! Rapunzel was the trailblazer for this, the characters following her are honestly just “copies” Disney made because they realized how effective Rapunzel was without actually questioning *why* she was effective.
@@sansyeux The comment is still valid, in agreement with the sentiments she touched on in the video, an opening to further discussion. No need for your snark.
"We should write for children just the way we write for adults, only better." This quote has been attributed to a bunch of Russian writers including Leo Tolstoy (TBH there's no way to know for sure who said it, but the quote is great anyway)
C.S Lewis (The author of The Chronicles Of Narnia) once said that kids can handle darker stories as long as there's a happy ending... So why can't we give kids more darker stories with serious and more mature heroes?
I watched the hunchback of notre dame for the first time a little while ago, and i was thinking to myself like "man it sucks that we'll never get somethign as dark as this from disney again"
I want more Princesses like Annika in Barbie Magic of Pegasus. She was kind and good, but her sassiness was clearly due to the frustration that EVERYONE SHE KNEW COULD DIE. She didn’t have time for silly antics, she had shit to do.
There are so many books and fairytale retelling that are so well written and unique female characters compared to Disney. I would kill to get some good adaptations of Gail Carson Levine books that aren't a Sherk copy like Ella Enchanted was turned into.
@mayln163 That’s one of the many reasons why I loved the recent puss in boots. Yes you had Goldilocks who was more of a sympathetic anti hero who comes around in the end but Jack Horner was like an old school villain. Evil for the hell of it, no motivation, no tragic backstory. While movies now have been oversaturated with either twist villains or sympathetic villains where you could argue if they even should be villains in the first place, he was a breath of fresh air to me.
@@mayln163 I like villains who have complicated, and even sympathetic, backstories. Let's not forget that the old Disney villains could be pretty redundant too. The problem is a lack of variety. If ALL of the villains are obvious evil villains, it's boring. If ALL of the villains are sympathetic and/or twist villains, it's boring.
@@ameenaceesay1376 YES exactly Puss in Boots had the best of both worlds. It's like how I actually really, really enjoy Hans from Frozen because AT THE TIME the notion of a charming prince who was actually corrupt WAS a novel subversion of expectations. Now the twist version theme is so played out that it feels trite. Disney needs to stop repeating whatever formula is trendy and bring variety back.
Klutz just means there's going to be cheap slapstick comedy, which is very American imo. It needs to be balanced out with clever jokes, puns, learning new information, communication skills, etc
@@BliffleSplick Yeah, and I think they _especially_ missed the mark on this in the movie it matters most: Encanto. The point of the movie is "everyone has their flaws but they're not that bad if we just communicate," but in not being able to have a 100% villain they kind of forgot the difference between "flaw" and "behavior other characters don't like." Mirabel being curious about Bruno isnt a flaw, it's a pretty natural reaction that her family just so happened to be _extremely_ opposed to. They try to make it seem like Pepa's emotional over-reactions, which is the whole character flaw that started the whole "we don't talk about Bruno" thing, are equal to Mirabel simply wanting to know who her family member was and a good reason for why he's being erased from history Joseph Stalin-style. Mirabel is a totally normal and rational person while _everyone_ around her is dystopian levels of illogical and reactive. They're really telling us a whole town _and_ Bruno's entire family saw him get the power of foresight, watched him use his forsight, then decided "OH MY GOD, HIS POWER IS TO MAKE BAD THINGS HAPPEN!! BURN THE WITCH!! DISGRACE!!" while Mirabel's flaws are just "I drop things sometimes and want to learn more about my family so I can relate to them better."
Yeah, I feel like klutz is a way of giving a character a "flaw" without risking the audience getting turned off by them, because we generally don't expect people to get over klutziness. It's like making them allergic to peanuts. It doesn't really inform the character in any significant way, especially when most of these characters are teenagers and are kinda expected to be inherently awkward and unsure of themselves. If they had an actual flaw like being judgmental, lazy, scared to stand up for themselves, etc. then the writers have to actually work to endear the character to the audience and get them to grow appreciably as a person.
Being a klutz can also be (whether they know it or not) code for being neurodivergent, same with being distractible, or really enthusiastic over odd things@@ariwl1
I'm genuinely so sick of people automatically assuming that every animated film is for children. this is why a whole generation was left alone in a room alone to watch Watership Down as children, because their parents didn't bother to check. animation is for everyone.
My boyfriend got away with watching South Park as a literal child, right in front of his parents, because he was learning English in school and his parents only spoke Russian, so they had no idea what the characters were actually saying or how much swearing there was. He told them it was a children's show and they believed it purely because it's animated.
@@necronatalofficial2805 Yeah, same goes for anime. Nowadays it's more accepted and popular, but there are enough people, who think, just because it's drawn / animated, it's for kids. It's the artstyle! And has as many genres as films with real people! Wish people would see that - even if they don't like it, which is fine. Everyone has their own taste after all.
@@blackharmonics4518at one point my mom thought anime was for kids but in high school she came in one time when I was watching I think devilman crybaby with blood and what not. She took it back
There’s nothing wrong with having a main character that is silly, quirky, and a bit awkward and not knowing what to say as their personality as they discover themselves, but there has gotta be more than just that. You have to let them achieve goals themselves and work on bettering themselves as people and not let them stand around acting funny saying cringe quotes cuz they are the main characters. If you wanna let them inspire young ones, let them be relatable in what they are trying to achieve!
Actually it is. No one acts like that. It's genuinely annoying. I know it's 'for the kids' but the character trait of being dorky and cute just cuz they're the main character is so tired. Literally every princess in the past decade had these character traits. Like they portray them as kids when these are very much teenagers/young adults. CORNY!!!
Cinderella and Belle were hardcore. They behaved older than their ages because, in their time period, teenage women were already engaged, had to work if they were poor etc… People forget all the noble traits these young women taught us; courage, bravery, sticking by one’s principles in the face of adversity.
@@YourDearestSmileyIn the original story, she’s called “Cinderella” for a reason-she’s the maid of the house, so she’s constantly covered in ash (due to working over the fireplace) and dirt. When she’s at the ball, she’s clean and dressed in something other than rags, and to someone who’s never met her before like this the Prince wouldn’t have recognized her outside of that. They don’t portray that well at all in the 1950 Cinderella, so it can be quite confusing.
@@YourDearestSmileyMost of that was really magic tbh, like it was supposed to be magical that the glass slipper fit her. Also magic that it fell off because it’s especially fitted for her so her fairy godmother wanted it to happen like that
I think another issue w/ the "adorkable" mindset is that perpetuates the idea that women can't be anything else but silly or cute. They always have to have cutesy and while that can be good in moderation it still falls into sooo many stereotypes instead of being the feminist empowered woman icons Disney wants to believe they're making. It's like everything else Disney is doing rn: uninspired and tired.
@@MsBigact ok, but that's the point. These girls are out here saving the world from being frozen over, from an island goddess, from complete annihilation, why do they have to be cutesy doing it? That's what makes it performative because the message essentially becomes "girls can save the world, but they're still silly little cutie pies who don't have to be taken seriously." It isn't coming from a genuine place and that makes it bad representation. They're trying to do both and they end up doing neither well
The only thing Disney believes they’re making is money, and for what it’s worth, they are, unfortunately they care more about money and formula than anything new or good
I just want more of a Tiana kind of personality and character. A character who know exactly who they are, what they want and how to get it. You can still build a solid story around a character who knows what they want, without making them feel overconfident, or feel like there isn’t much of a growth in their character, and still have a thrilling story on how they reach their goal and their journey on the way, how their possible overconfident character can potentially be detrimental to someone who isn’t. And so on. I just want to be able to see more of different personalities and stories built up around them. Because i agree, the adorkable is getting old. Some of them start to not even feel human anymore because of how adorkably they act. In other words, they feel like pick me girls rather then genuine ppl.
tiana is my favorite disney princess. she has such an interesting and compelling personalilty to me! you cant help but get swept up in her dreams and ambitions and want to see her have her restaurant as much as she does.
The only problem with that is to be honest with you it is a good movie but it feels like everything is happening around her. The only "growth" that you could say happens is she learns to have fun a little bit more? other than that she's the one who teaches naveen "hard work" how to survive and she basically stays the same through the movie. It would have to have good well written motivations and a story like "meg" from hercules where the change is more obvious. But these days I have zero faith in any writers ability to produce that without having some kind of woke, feminist, or SJW agenda behind it.
@@TeaTimeTableI kind of get what you're saying, but I feel like when watching the movie I wasn't looking for her to grow much, just achieve her dream. She was definitely the problem solver of the movie because she had a good head on her shoulders, she just needed a bit more heart. The growth needed to come from Naveen. In a way it seemed like they both shared the main character roll, now that I think about it.
@@TeaTimeTableshe absolutely learns a lesson, the scene with the song from mama odie and her confrontation with facilier show this. She even says it "my daddy may not have gotten what he wanted, but he got what he _needed_ " she learns that not everything is in her control and that true happiness doesn't come from getting exactly what you imagined. She never wanted to fall in love, all she wanted was to fulfill her dad's dream or else she felt everything he did was for nothing. But by the end she understands that love isn't an obstacle, it's a strength. (I love this movie I've watched it a hundred times since it came out)
Its like 2010's tumbler humor and millennial jokes with a personality of a disney adult. It reminds me of live action disney shows like girl meets world, "the dorky girl"
Yeah the stopped in time in a sense that theyre not innovating anymore, i think this goes along with with hollywood crysis USA is facing since 2018, the don't want to be risk now because it's dangerous
yes! this is super interesting bc you know who’s entering the workforce regarding disney’s behind the scenes. from snow white, cinderella, and aurora, lots of baby boomers and the silent generation are bts. from ariel, belle, jasmine, pochahontas, tiana, and mulan, we see gen x in the workforce. and from rapunzel to now, millennials have officially made their way. some gen z (like myself), are also old enough, but primarily bts of disney is filled with millennials. also, each generation is trying to cater to a younger generation, and that’s important to factor as well. anyways, not saying it’s a bad thing, just interesting to note.
from the character tropes aside i honestly feel like disney has struggles with “same face syndrome” with their female character designs ex. big round eyes, small nose, rouse lips, soft jawline/cheekbones/ facial features in general you could say the same with some of their male characters
That’s what I’ve been thinking! A ton of Disney’s characters recently have been feeling like they come from the same base models: pretty women are circles, handsome men are squares. With only deviation for side characters or characters that aren’t as “pretty”
Yeah that's true, but it is a form of letting their style into the people's mind as a merchandise. Like, when u think about Disney, an image appears in your mind, that's what they want
Not to mention, they're always model skinny, I just wish we had more stocky main characters (I'm not saying being skinny is bad but it would be nice to see more body diversity)
@@Bella-ux4yz I strongly disagree. Snow White, Cinderella, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan, Megara, Pocahontas, etc etc etc all look very different from each other, yet their merchandise makes lots and LOTS of money. Disney has a brand. It doesn't need a style. And it would make no sense for the company to be making all different styles for 100 years now, and suddenly they decide to keep the character designs similar is VERY jarring. In fact, it may be damaging to the company's image.
This why I was actually really pleasantly surprised with ‘elemental’ (but I think it’s technically Pixar too) I liked how they explored a female protagonist who struggles with her anger. Anger can be such a stigmatised emotion for women, so it was refreshing to see that.
I only saw the very beginning of the movie, and I agree! Anger is very typical for fire characters, but from the beginning she knows she has problems with it, she just doesn’t know what to do about it, and that was really interesting
I didn't consciously notice it till I read your comment, but they flipped the emotional gender norms, having a lady with anger issues and a dude who cries openly 🧡🩵
As a woman with anger problems, I'm actually really disheartened by the fact there is little to no representation of that and when it is it's just made a mockery of when it's an actual problem
YAAS I love elemental, I remember describing it to my grandparents and when I mentioned Ember, my grandparents said she sounded like me. I took it as a compliment lol
Thank you! I really hate the "it's a kids movie why are you complaining" argument. Like, children and teens aren't stupid. They deserve quality content too.
It also represents a bigger issue when it comes to companies like disney and the film industry in general. Everything feels bland and repetitive. It’s all cash grabs
Exactly! One of the best shows to learn things from was Batman the Animated Series (90s-00s). It explored and talked about real, deep subjects that didn't hold back. I.e. drug problems, a former model seeking revenge on the people who threw her away after they felt she was "too old" or not pretty enough. Show probably wasn't made for kids but it sure came on a kid's network
When people say that, it makes me question why they think that children’s entertainment *should* be bad. “I think this show is garbage, but I also think this garbage should be a nostalgic childhood memory for a million kids.” It doesn’t make much sense.
Plus yeah they're literally family films, like in old Pixar films they absolutely snuck inappropriate jokes in there that kids wouldn't get so that the parents/older kids were laughing too...(ex. "Piston Cup...." "He did WHAT in his cup??")
I feel like Rapunzel was the only one that made sense, because she was locked away for so long she didn't learn social cues or able to talk to people so it makes sense to her circumstances of why she's quirky
The second I saw that Asha was gonna be the quirky girlie type of person, my heart sank. Looking at her style and character design, I was legitimately expecting a more serious character. Every stereotypical Disney joke they showed off in this trailer just made me more upset
We need a Lilo-ized princess. Just UNSETTLINGLY weird. Not able to smooth talk, dead pan deliveries & laughs at the most awkward times that just make it more awkward , puts spoons in empty pickle jars & shakes them angrily princess.
@@TheTailor-01 Disney not taking on Nimona was the best thing that could have happened to that movie, because I don't think Disney would have let Nimona be as chaotic as she is in the final film. I love how unapologetically unhinged she is. Hopefully Disney saw how positively she was received and give us their own metal gremlin.
As someone who wrote fanfictions on Scooby Doo and John Wick, Allan and Ken and Shia Lebeouf going mad from the age of 17, I too also believe that my works are better than Disney. And mine suck ass
Actual quirkyness: Lilo taking pictures of tourists, rambling on to people who hate her about her doll and making a penut butter sandwich every week for a fish she thinks killed her parents
To me Jane was the quirkiest in a good way. You can really see how eccentric and passionate she was. She doesn’t come off forced just to be that quirky girl.
I always loved Jane!! she was so passionate about her interests and you could tell every exaggeration and all her quirky extra behavior was out of pure excitement and adrenaline. Also when she did get serious and focused it was such a cool moment and still held that same passion.
@@beethovensfidelio Yeah I never read Jane as quirky. She's just an English girl who loves animals and science but isn't used to being in the actual jungle.
Honestly, I’m glad more people are finally noticing this trend with the Disney Female Leads. It was fine with Rapunzel and Mirabel, but it has gotten increasingly annoying with the other girls. Not everyone is ‘openly quirky’.
Lilo and Stitch feels like it has an invaluable place in this conversation. Lilo was portrayed as weird and quirky and kinda whimsical, but her behavior *had realistic consequences.* She was bullied, she was othered. She was supported by her sister, which is *integral* to why Nani is the best caretaker for her. I feel like as soon as Disney started portraying their quirky characters as "endearing and adorable" to other characters in-universe was when they kinda lost their edge. Yeah, maybe Flynn Ryder was annoyed with Rapunzel for half the movie, but that's nothing like the hostility Lilo got from her peers and that just feels kind of important to me. That change felt like the beginning of the end to me. And if we want to go in a very serious direction (I get it, it's for the kids, get over it, etc), but I feel like irl, people only like quirky girls if they're already hot, cute, thin, pretty, popular--some nonsense like that. You can only be quirky if people already like you, or you're seen as annoying, shallow, dumb, etc. And I think what you said about adorkable Disney girls being portrayed in kind of a condescending way--as if teen girls are all stupid or something--just makes the whole thing even more disingenuous. By all means, have weird girls. I love weird girls! But stop with this. Say something real and true, you know?
@@Furienna Yes, but Mirabel is also a fictional character, and therefore not an "irl" quirky girl like I was talking about. Disney quirky girls can look however they want, but in real life, quirky girls are kinda shunned if they don't fit an arbitrary mold. That's all I was saying
@@Furienna If we're already talking about it I'm glad she was allowed to have a bigger nose and eyebrows instead of looking like Elsa. But she still has the remnants of the 2010's princesses' safe, cute quirky humor.
Oh the pretty privilege element is so spot on! Just like irl, if you're weird but pretty, you're ✨unique✨ and quirky. If you're ugly, weird, and are into nerdy stuff people would just shun you
its unfortunate the way they are making the girls more visually and culturally diverse, but oversimplifying their personalities to the point of all being "awkward and quirky". other personality traits exist!
Meh, the Disney girls & locales have been diverse since the 90s. Even if they slap a new coat of paint on these new ones, they've all had nearly the same body shape and facial proportions since Tangled. It's so superficial... The characters from their traditional 2D works were all distinct as they were all lovingly drawn by hand... I miss it. 😞
This is what I've been annoyed by the most in modern writing. A character being relatable does not automatically make them interesting. Also, everyone is different, so if you try to make a character as "relatable" as possible to as many people as possible, they end up feeling very bland, at least for me.
This is my cue to urge everyone to watch the original Brave Little Toaster. It's everything modern Disney isn't. Seriously, as a 30 year old coming to terms with getting older and questioning my worth as family and friends become more distant or taken away by death or extremism, the movie brought me to tears a few times, actually.
It's the inevitable result of the narcissism of "representation" and marketable "content" instead of artistry and timeless tales. You're absolutely right, and it's killing a lot of things, not just Disney.
@teshtishtoshtesh3218 I agree that pure marketability is a bad trait modern movies have, representation is not as big or as wide spread of a problem by a long shot, and also goes to helping uplift marginalized groups, which is a positive.
I'm a Mulan stan till the day I die, and I think she's the most unique (honorary) Disney princess yet. She's awkward yes, but she's also SHY! Literally the most relatable trait to any teenage girl, and yet, she's the only outright shy disney heroine
I'm a Mulan die-hard capital "s" STAN, and I completely agree with you. I think her shyness is, indeed, a part of her core personality. But it also stems from the fact that she is always placed by her society or circumstance in boxes and roles she doesn't fit in, or perform well at all. Including during her disguise as a man (since... well, she is not one). Her "toughing up" has nothing to do with abandoning her femininity (although she needs to keep her disguise). In fact, it (her femininity) is ultimately shown to be a PART of her badassery - as opposed to the COUNTLESS heroines who "are badass because they are tough and manly". She never wins by brute force, or even martial art skills per se, but by her most prominent traits: creativity, cleverness and resourcefulness (which are essentially gender neutral traits). In the final act, she sports a not-overly-feminine nor masculine look. She is herself. And she wins by strategy, since the moment she uses a feminine scarf to climb the columns rather than trying to bust the doors with a blunt object - like the men were trying to do (a moment which brilliantly echoes her strategy on the arrow pole at the midpoint). And, at the climactic moment, she uses another signifier of femininity (the fan) as a weapon to outsmart the villain and complete the plan she had designed to win the fight. Mulan is on a WHOLE other level.
Just in case you aren't aware, Mulan doesn't need the "honorary" before the Disney Princess title. She _is_ an official princess--the "or perform an act of true heroism" was added on to Disney's "either be born a princess or become a princess by the end of the movie" rules pretty much just so Mulan could be included.
And I think what made Mulan's "shyness" the best portrayal is because it's heavily rooted in a depressive lack of self confidence. Because Snow White was also shy, but not at all in the same way. Mulan believes she's a useless f*ck-up, and desperately wants to change that... to the point of literally sacrificing herself in war. It gives her shyness an intense depth that characters like Snow lack.
@Pedro_Larroza I think that's why Mulan as a movie works so well! All the characters make sense within the world of the movie. Mulan is shy and awkward because all her life, she's been held up to narrow gendered social expectations. Captain Shang is stiff and up tight, because he's constantly trying to live up to his father's achievements. Mulans father is stoic because he's a retired army man with God only knows what kind of trauma, and Grandma Fa (who was probably not unlike Mulan in her younger years) spent decades under the opressive gendered expectations, and is absolutely done taking shit from anyone
YES omg. also I like that Mulan's awkwardness is something she wishes was different about her. Like you can tell she actually struggles with it, whereas for most of these modern characters, it doesn't seem to be an issue for them, it's just for comedy's sake or as a device to move the plot along. idk if that makes sense but as someone who regularly wishes they were less clumsy/socially inept I relate to mulan a lot in a way.
i think kids love the music and the look of the movie mainly lol. Plus Elsa is barely in the movie, it's a lot of Anna tbh and i think kids like Anna but Elsa is 'prettier' so they wanna dress up as her.
This adorkable personality really is the saddest part about the newer generation of Disney heroines because they’re so visually diverse 😩 it sends the message that to Disney, as long as they’re diverse on the surface to appease to the masses, the rest doesn’t matter
I get so annoyed with the new movies having the characters talk in mordern language rather than how they should talk in the time they are from. They can still make jokes without using words that we, as mordern people, talk. Thats the problem I had with Raya (the beginning of the movie). I rolled my eyes watching the Wish trailer when she said "am I tripping"
I agree with you, it’s ridiculous. I think the problem with wish and its language (like with Asha and the “am i tripping”) is that Asha is meant to be half black (forgot what the other half is, apologies) and is likely not written by someone who fully understands aave, how old certain phrases are, when they should be used, etc. Certsin phrases have been around for a very long time, and a lot of aave dates back to slavery, but if you’re going to try to make her likable to children of color, understand that slang doesn’t have to be part of that. Tiana was more modern than Asha and didn’t use woke language, and did just fine, so why try to force it on another princess of color where it doesn’t belong?
Omg yes! This definitely annoys me more than this adorkable trope. It ruins the immersion into the story/setting. Moana and Frozen immediately came to mind.
I think, though this idea is absolutely true and a pattern, we're taking this a little bit far with some of these examples. In particular, I think Repunzel, Anna, Moana, and Judy Hops all have distinctive personalities (Venelope too, tbh I don't even think she should have been included on this list). The issue is that there is a spiritual overlap in the presentation of their personalities (the repeated tangled and Moana gag for instance, or the cadence of judy hops jokes being similar to the others despite the fact the substance is different) and also the fact that the newer versions of it seem particularly derivative- Encanto, Wish, etc. Repunzel did it first, obviously, but she was also much more spunky and defined by that spunk than the others and had a change in that aspect of her character over the course of the story. Anna is similar in the sheltered, clumsy, dorky department- but her character is also meant to serve as a foil to Elsa and so has a much stronger impulsive, caring, and anxious character- she's honestly my favorite of them because I think she works super well in the context of the movie she's in, and the fact that these traits never really change but rather emotionally resolve as she and Elsa learn to accept each other, themselves, and real love (because of this she also avoids the trap of many of the modern characters in terms of undercutting strong emotional moments because the "adorkable" aspects are her being emotionally honest rather than feeling like a performance). Moana and Judy Hops are more similar to each other than anything, and both have a much more determined, goal oriented, yet niave, outlook on the world than merely being adorkable, and both deal with a great bit more self doubt than many of the other characters. These are all fairly substantial character differences, and they all work differently in the context of their respective stories- I honestly don't think that we'd have much room to talk about this as oversaturated if it weren't for the more recent movies feeling completely derivative of the old, and as such I think this is only a Disney problem post-2017 and zootopia, since that was the last time I really thought it worked.
Another issue I have is how all of these new characters look so similar. Disney and Pixar really need to diversify their art style. People talked so much crap about Turning red but at least the art style was somewhat refreshing.
…Turning Red’s artstyle was sort of an evolution of Luca’s art style (note the bean-shaped mouths), which seems to still be evolving (for example, I think the protagonist of that upcoming movie has a bean mouth)
I would LOVE to see more diverse/interesting character designs, but I’d imagine there’d be a some backlash. One thing that I appreciate with the upcoming Wish is that Asha has braids and freckles! It’s not much but they’re talking baby steps…
Disney is obsessed with "the brand" to the point they'll abuse their workers to uphold it. Part of that brand is the art style and since they own Pixar they'll force them to maintain brand consistency, too.
I mean I would say raya mirabel and asha all look pretty different from eachother. Especially those first 2. Ppl were complaining mirabels design wasnt “pretty enough” for ages
Yeah Mei Mei has the excuse because her whole thing is that she's 13, she's cringey. Its out of place when Judy Hopps does it because she's like.. old enough to get a job and solve police cases. Idk why they thought thatd work. Like i loved zootopia when I was younger but Judy definitely isn't my favorite Disney protagonist by a long shot.
I don't get how she was quirky. She was a straight-A- Student, that loves spending, time with her mother, is cheerful and loves her friends. Also there is no such thing as normal.
I 95% agree with you, but I will say that Judy Hopps had a lot more going for her. Her adorkable traits weren't treated as strengths; she had to humiliate herself and apologize through tears ("I really am just a dumb bunny") precisely because her adorkable mouth got ahead of her brain. It's been a long time since one of Disney's protagonists has been wrong about something and had to apologize like that. Now it's just "the strength was in you all along" á la Rapunzel.
I kind of have to disagree. I see you're point, but I think since we saw Judy struggling and fighting to become a cop, I think she should have been a little more put together, or at least put herself together by the halfway point of the movie when she adjusted to Zootopia. She came off as more childish than someone who had been so motivated and determined her entire life should have been, and her enthusiasm didn't need to be as quirky as they made it. But she's definitely better done than the rest
I agree with you. I loved Zootopia growing up and I have to say that throwing Judy in the “adorkable” category seems a bit off. Like yes, she was a bit clumsy at times, but who isn’t? Judy is probably one of the only protagonists to actually be wrong in a very detrimental way to the plot, but she reflected & apologized for her actions, which is something I haven’t seen from a lot of female protagonists. Plus, she was smart, driven, and stuck to her goals no matter the hardships she faced. (Not saying the other girls aren’t smart or anything, but Judy was constantly bashed by everyone including her own family about being a police officer) I don’t think she fits in the “adorkable” category.
Agreed. Could be biased because I'm an animal character fan but her story seemed a lot more developed, nuanced, and relevant than the other examples. She had to confront and admit to her own/family's racist biases for crying out loud.
@@adeleaslan8182 early drafts of her character art show her off more as this no nonsense cop lady that hardly smiled, and I think they changed it to make her more likable for the audience.
That's why I actually like Elsa. That doesn't mean that she is a perfect character, I think Disney was quite lazy with her concept, but I liked the idea of an introverted, more quiet Disney princess. Elsa is mature, a bit older and someone who is faced with lots of responsibility. She is very reserved when meeting strangers, but very loving with friends and family. She was distinct to Rapunzel and Moana. Disney could have done more with her.
Exactlyyyyy she was also a good example of how older siblings repress their emotions and issues so much and thus becoming seemingly cold and aloof but they just never learned how to emote properly (Elsa was literally shut in her room cus of ONE accidental outburst). She's not quirky just for the sake of being relatable. She has genuine issues hence WHY she's relatable
I don't care what people think, I loved the Elsas character since I was a child and I still really like her as an adult. Disney could have done a lot with her character, more than they did and MORE than they seem to want to do with her in the future
As someone who is quite shy and withdrawn, Elsa was a welcome relief to me. When I first saw her in Frozen, I fell in love. I’ve never really seen a character like her in media, a shy girl who could be strong and powerful and frightening. Shy girls are rarely leads or are often portrayed as cute and submissive and honestly felt those portrayals to be insulting. Elsa was powerful. And while I agree she could have been explored a bit better, I still consider her one of the best disney characters. And I have no idea why, after her character was sk well received, they keep making Anna clones (not to hate on Anna, I love her its just Disney needs some variety)
The second I heard Asha’s voice I had such a visceral reaction, because yeah, every line delivery sounds EXACTLY like Moana and EXACTLY like Mirabel and EXACTLY like Anna. I’m not the biggest fan of the early princess movies, but god, Aurora and Cinderella have completely different vocal cadence and delivery. You could not imagine that wistful ‘once upon a dream’ coming out of Cinderella, but I can’t think of a single line from these Adorkable Girls that actually feels unique to them
Tbh, not even their designs. I remember seeing the girl from Tangled and thinking that she looks like she could be the sister of the girls from Frozen. Mirabel looks an awful lot like Moana, just with bigger lips, glasses and curly hair. The girl from Brave had a bit of an interesting spin, but she also has a Babyface. Aisha finally got a bit different eyes, but from the nose below, still has the same round, baby-ish face all the others had. Not every teenager has super round features, damn. I wish they didn't make every character look like various spins of the same face.
MCU has this same problem. All the dialogue has to be "witty" and "clever." It really feels like that Disney is trying to be the "How do you do, fellow kids?" but unironically, not realizing the character is a joke.
This drives me crazy, because the majority of the time anymore, they sacrifice character consistency or an emotional moment for some stupid 'witty' or 'sassy' joke. Banter is like a strongly-flavoured seasoning; makes a fictional meal distinct and appealing only if used in the right way and amount.
I agree with most of this besides Rapunzel and Anna. For Rapunzel, she literally had no human interaction (besides her evil mother) for 18 years, she didn't have any teachers, and not to mention she has never touched grass! or been outside! so I think it's fine if she acts like that. For Anna, it was her unawareness and being easy to manipulate that almost got her and her sister killed. Then she learns from that. Which makes it not a, "oH mY bAd TrAiTs GoT mE gOoD rEtUrN".
I wish Disney knew that being passionate about your interests didn't mean you had to be annoying about them. Jane, Tiana, and Ariel were moving when they showed their interests and wants because the movies took them seriously and highlighted how important their wishes and interests were to the story. They really lost that spark
well put
THIS. It’s hard to tell if any of their characters have interests anymore, it’s like they forgot how to write characters like people
@@Marcuss99 right? It just makes this big lack of character. If your characters all have the same drives, wants, and personalities, why should we care about them
good point about treating them seriously, it's gone with the new characters. it's all 'wink wink' and meta
@@alicjakempisty2729 it's not even that they have no interests or drives. That scene in Raya when she goes " 'i'm kind of a dragon-nerd' in that adorkable voice is what I mean. If this was an older Disney movie, her interest in dragons could've been a beautiful moment where we get to know this person and what they love. I'm just sick of these stories not being able to take themselves seriously
Mulan and Ariel are good examples of dorks done right.
Mulan was clumsy and struggled with following the norm but was smart and brave.
Ariel had odd hobbies but researched her finds and had a real teen personality, being angsty.
Disagree! I think trying to follow the norm is what made Mulan clumsy. Every moment she is being herself, she is grounded, confident, skilled and graceful. You can see that when she is forced to try and act "like a lady" or "like a man". The moment she stops, there's no clumsy to be seen in her.
Now the Little Mermaid movie I don't remember enough to argue.
I honestly think all these dorks were done right. I would never mistake Mirabel for Rapunzel or any other 2010's characters like what the blogger is saying. Their "dorkiness", while funny and relatable to us, didn't necessarily make them endearing inside the story. Mirabel caused trouble for her family by trying to be special, when she wasn't. She deliberately disobeyed her grandmother. Anna was focused on finding love, annoyed Elsa, and even told she can't marry a man she just met. Vannelope is sassier than the rest. Only her design was cute, but she's more confident and reliable than the average princess. Even her calling herself adorable is proof of that. I would never imagine Rapunzel or the others flattering themselves like that. Mei Lee from Turning Red gave me 2nd hand embarassment, and I don't think her dorkiness was ever presented as cute. Raya is mature.
Yes, I recognize there is a trend, but I don't think it's wrong or uncreative. I'll argue the reason Mulan and Ariel are always people's favorite princesses is exactly because of their "adorkable" personalities.
We have too many confident sexy female leads in superhero movies in other genre. Let Disney give us these clumsy characters.
Mulan was clumsy only when they were dressing her in "womanly woman" clothes - which was so not her element. I can relate to it - me in high heels and tight skirt - will be very very clumsy. But in her real element - she is not clumsy. She can be weak and clueless in training - like all men around her - but not where she is in her element and spirit. I loved that about her - its so real - we all clumsy in unfamiliar uncomfortable things and situations.
@@UdontknowmiI’m pretty sure she was supposed to give you second hand Embarrassment (turning red)
I had a hard time watching Mulan. It was more cringe than dorky.
I think the other thing to note with Rapunzel is she matured as the movie progressed. She was socially awkward and naive when she first went out of her comfort zone (aka her tower) BUT by the end of the movie she is making a deal with Gothel to save Eugene’s life in exchange for her remaining Gothel’s prisoner. A very serious and sacrificial decision to make and she knew that. There was no awkwardness or out of place joke cracking in those moments. At the time the quirkiness of Rapunzel was unique and trail blazing, but now I agree it has become the boring default.
Yea! And I think the contrast worked very well for that movie. Most of the movie was very lighthearted and Rapunzel exhibiting her "adorkable" traits was largely what made it lighthearted. So at the climax, her seriousness made the tone of the scene more solemn, and I think that shift made the scene more intense and impactful from a storywriting perspective.
Yeah I think showing a character as young and naive and clumsy is fine as long as it’s for an actual purpose. Like for Rapunzel’s case, she experienced growth. A character who matures as the story progresses is understandable. A character who is “quirky🤪” because it’s funny is just… overdone
"Adorkable" is not the first thought I have when I think about Rapunzel. Rapunzels primary trait is not adorkableness, but spunk. She is easily the spunkiest of the recent disney princesses that I've seen (I have not seen all of them) and this spunk is something that definitely is missing from Anna.
@@InternetStudiesGuyomg THIS i always though Rapunzel was spunky more than "quirky xd"
It makes sense for Rapunzel's character to be awkward since she's been so isolated. But it is interesting that her awkward characteristics were turned into strengths.
The biggest problem with adorkable characters is that their personalities don’t fit their upbringing. Rapunzel grew up in a tower, so it makes sense for her to be awkward and naive, same goes for Anna. Asha has a lot of friends and a loving family, it would be much more fitting if she was more confident in her actions
Continuing on that, I think it fits Mirabel again, because she's brought up in a household where everyone except she and her grandmother have superpowers and they're all put under very heavy expectations. That could definitely lead to confidence problems and deflection humor.
@@houndofculann1793 I agree with you, but they definitely overuse it
@@houndofculann1793 but why does there have to be reasons for it? what if thats just the character's personality? ive not seen wish, not heard great things about it so i decided to not bother, but i see no problem with these personality traits in main female characters. for one, they can be very relatable to neurodivergent people. but my main point is, that there doesnt have to be a reason behind this specific personality of a character. i would like to see other personalities too, but i dont mind this one.
@@puppycatsbee there technically doesn't need to be any reasons, but it's much better from a storytelling perspective for the character's personalities making sense when compared to their experiences. Especially if said personality seems to be in conflict of the upbringing the story shows the character has had, that can screw with your immersion to the story.
I haven't seen Wish either, so it's impossible for me too to really comment about that. But what I said about Mirabel is an example that even when there is a trend of these very same-y characters movie after movie, it's much easier to "accept/justify" that personality if it also makes in-universe sense for her to be that way.
I was going to comment this, glad someone else did already.
It's less annoying with Rapunzel (obviously she was the first example, so it wasn't overused at that point) but because it made sense with her story. She lived in a tower for 18 years and only ever talked to 1 person. It makes sense for her to be awkward and childlike.
AND that one only person she ever talked to, doesn't want her to grow up. Her mother/stepmother wants her to stay and be dependent of her forever, so she's granted to keep her in a childlike mindset.
You all judge Asha's personality in the trailer instead of waiting her fully personality in the final product
She had still depths and showed her trauma, it's why I liked her but then people liked that character so much every other new disney princess became a carbon copy of her. At least that's how I see it
@@konstantinosp-a6447 idk what the comments were like 7 hours ago but I scrolled pretty far down and found only 1 comment talking about Asha. Everyone else is talking about the characters that they like. But honestly the trailer showed enough of her qUiRkY personality, to see she isn't much different.
Mirabel's like a kid too. and an anxious, people-pleaser one at that
Mulan had dorky moments when she was pretending to be something she wasnt. When she was being herself, she was grounded, measured and clever
@@mehorton2657I disagree. She was always capable of being serious. Her issue before the war stuff was that she didn’t want the life that was expected of her. She was afraid she had to lose everything about herself to satisfy a man and become a wife. That’s not her “clumsy, quirky” attributes. She’s shown as clever right away when she uses the dog to feed the chickens because she woke up late. She’s smart and compassionate. She didn’t want to be quiet, submissive, and be forced to rely on men for everything. She’s capable of doing things on her own which she shows when she was the very reason that they won that battle in the valley when she created the avalanche. She’s forced to be more serious, capable, outspoken, and clever with the men of her unit and that’s who she already was deep down, but wasn’t allowed to be. And who/what she was afraid of losing.
@@MihaelLawliet01 This! Mulan in the beginning of the movie is only awkward when she's being pushed and shoved into all of these aspects of being a proper bride-to-be on the way to the matchmaker, because she's not a dainty, ladylike, quiet little house-mouse. She's intelligent, which we see when she steps in and easily claims the victory in the board game the two men are playing (I assume it's something like xiangqi, the Chinese game similar to chess, and requiring a similar skill and intellect), but she also can't remember any of the things she's expected to because they're outside of her mindset. She's shown to be quite agile and graceful when doing things she's good at/comfortable with, like riding a horse, but ask her to properly pour and serve tea, or move with the delicate manner of a lady? She'll fumble and make mistakes because she's never been expected to do those things before. It's clear that she was never taught to be a lady of the house, and has been left to be kind of a wild child, so many of these social graces and such are foreign to her.
She's not really in the same vein as the "adorkable" protagonists of modern Disney...she's unsure and tentative when in a new situation, which leads to her fumbling missteps, but when she finally finds her footing, she's confident, capable, and incredibly clever and capable of cunning plans.
I like the way you worded this
Clumsy and awkward is not the opposite of clever and mature. Mulan is all these things. I think the discipline of martial arts just helped her a bit with her coordination and confidence (since she finally had the chance to work on a skill she found rewarding).
Mulan is so interesting. She wants to make her family proud and honor them, but at the same time she's so unique that the idea of being just a quiet, demure, extremely backbendingly obedient wife like her mom just isn't her. "Why is my reflection someone I don't know?" @@MihaelLawliet01
Speaking of the adorkable trope, I love how instead of making Lilo be this manic pixie girl they made her into an actual child who is coping from the loss of her parents and relates to Stitch's destructive personality. They made her personality fit into the story and her quirks aren't just used for laughs but actual conflicts.
Her character feels believable
Also, the whole thing is grounded in the Ugly Duckling story, which makes it all the better, and a perfect fit for Disney.
Lilo is also great neurodivergent representation. I’m on the spectrum and she’s pitch perfect in my opinion.
@@BigBossMan538 Exactly!! Honestly the whole movie is really just a great allegory for found family and neurodivergency (Speaking as someone who has ADHD)
@@BigBossMan538 Agreed. As someone with autism, I relate strongly to Lilo.
Merida was a great example of a young, stubborn, "princess" who was forced into circumstances she didn't like and tried to change only to end up causing more harm. She had depth and good timing without self deprecating. The creators allowed her to be good at something and showed this on screen. Modern Disney female protags feel belittling because they aren't really good at something. They don't have inner drive. They self depreciate to an extreme degree and lack confidence in anything. It almost feels like Disney's response to "give female characters more agency" was "make female characters meeker and more palatable". Since they don't have inner motives and drives or perceived confidence, they need stories that force them to save x. Otherwise they'd go nowhere. ((Moana was a bit different because she wanted to leave the island initially and wanted more for herself, but constant awkward self deprecating jokes undermine the determination and confidence she had in the beginning of the film when she's trying to explore).
Exactlyyy it just feels misogynistic honestly
Thank you! Like you made me sit here and really think about it. Ariel was curious, she wanted to learn more about something that was forbidden so much so that she became good at hunting down and analyzing things from the human world which led her into danger. Tiana wanted her business. She was a fabulous chef, and she wanted to make her, and her father's dream come true to the point that she prioritized nothing else and nearly no one else to the point that it sorta led her into danger. There is no way you could swap out either of those characters with another because their convictions, their personalities are so strong. I can't say anything like that about Anna, or, Raya, or Mirabel. Sure, they may have desires or convictions, but not ones strong enough to be very believable. Hell in some cases they're given an opportunity to get exactly what they want, but they don't really take it. Anna being the prime example of this. After barely seeing and speaking to her sister for however many years, during the whole time expressing an intense wish to speak to her, she tries to run off with Hans to get married. I can tell you now, Ariel is 16 and she doesn't have that "Adorkable" thing in the same way that Anna, (18) Mirable (15) or Raya (18) has it. She's naïve sure, and awkward when interacting with the humans, but not like the girls that come after her. I miss that kind of writing.
Brave was so ahead of it’s time. I can remember disliking it when it came out, but now that I’m older I can see it for what it is
Well the thing is - brave is pixar film. I know disney owns pixar right now, but they are a different team. Team that is known for deep characters and really good storytelling. So. I woulndnt put merida in this discussion really. But yes i agree with everything besides that fact
Moana also wasn't afraid to express her frustrated toward Maui whenever he belittled or played pranks on her.
Someone called it the Death of Sincerity and I think that's on point. Disney is afraid to let people sit in their emotions lately and it kills me that it's so common now.
Truly. I feel like Encanto was the biggest reflection of this. There were so many moments that could have been deeply moving, but instead of letting the gravity weigh on you, they would stick in a joke.
why would someone let someone "sit in their emotions" my guy
@@josephleebob3828 to process them properly? your brain is great but it's not that great
So true
@@lana-ana-ana others shouldnt process your emotions
This is one thing I like about Tinkerbell from the Tinkerbell movies: she is grumpy, temperamental and can be a total b**ch. She makes a lot of mistakes and then in turn she learns from her mistakes, and has the help of her friends. I think Tinkerbell is one of the most unique female characters I’ve seen from Disney just because of how imperfect she is. I’m not a huge fan of Disney properties but I always had a soft spot for the Disney Fairies because I like the characters (and how whimsical the movies can be at times).
Tink is a lot of fun and I adored her growing up (tho I was born in 92) - she was one of my favs alongside the 90s princesses + Cinderella. I thought Snow White and Aurora were ok. I wish they would do 2D again - Tiana is awesome.
Exactly! i was just talking about how fun of a character tinkerbell is in the movies. They don’t let many female characters have anger issues
She’s misogynistic
I completely agree. I think all the Disney fairies have unique distinct personality traitors that make them stand out amongst the rest. Despite how many characters we meet in those movies they all still feel unique in their own way. They could have easily recycled personality traights from one fairy to the next, but they actually made them distinctly different from each other and that’s what makes those movies great. It feels realistic. Just about any viewer can find a fairy that matches their personality because there’s such a wide variety of personalities in the franchise. It doesn’t just cater to one handful of viewers, everyone can see themselves represented. It’s great.
@@notwwwansikI don’t think you know what misogyny is
Heavy on the "why do they ruin serious moments with jokes"
I can't tell you how many times I responded with "heh 😐" like let me feel this please
I think that there’s someone at Disney Animation who’s hellbent on inserting “Marvel humor” into their movies. The kind of humor that ruins serious moments
I learned a new word some years ago when watching why Marvel was annoying and more like parody, its called "bathos" humour, where they ruin a serious moment or buildup with humour.
It's like they're trying to make every movie an action comedy/romantic comedy
Cause its a kids movie, if u want drama go watch drama? Lol i hate serious moments in cartoons
There is a reason why Elsa is so popular; she has her own powers, is independent, strong, protective, mostly rational. I wish Disney would realize this. We need more princesses who are not just silly characters, even though I like them
I don't like Elsa at all because of her actions, but I agree. We need more diversity in Disney heroines. Adorkable girls aren't always relatable. Some girls are quiet and reserved.
@@EvelynL.1112Elsa is like if Abuela from Encanto was the protagonist. People who have been on the receiving end of that behaviour understandably won’t like how easy she gets off, but I think there’s immense value in having a protagonist who does something really shitty because she’s hurting.
@@kiwimusume As long as the protagonist's actions are not excused and they actually learn from their mistakes, then I have no problem with it.
I'm pretty sure kids like her because of her powers
I mean, in the first movie she was not really independent. She isolated herself because of her ptsd and other mental illnesses. She is more of a victim than an independent woman
When I first heard and saw the concept art for Wish and the design of it’s female lead, I really thought her personality was going to be shy/timid but very passionate in her beliefs. I would love it if Disney made a shy female lead.
Yeah! That would be great! With people saying that "they are teenagers" and that's why the act so quirky... When I was a teenager I was much more introverted and shy than im now, it would be nice to have that kind of representation, instead of always over the top excentric akwardeness (Violet from the Incredibles is a good example of an introverted shy teen, an I always loved her)
I don't like any horror movies with teenagers in them for this exact same reason, directors always portray every teenager as a dumb party goer that has to go to the party no matter if there's a killer out there, or by having them portrayed as sex crazed alcoholics who deserve to die. And if teenagers DON'T act this way, they've either had a traumatic past, are magical, or are the killer.
I found myself drawn to wish for that reason, I somehow predicted she would be shy and it would feel more like older disney movies in that way, but nope 😅
@@neisovo8177me too. I was a lot like her in my early teen years too- introverted, quiet, but very sensitive and lowkey kinda emo/goth
@@dyingsanity.I would kill for a goth “april ludgate”-esque princess.
This is why I love Lilo from Lilo and Stitch.
Yes she’s quirky and strange but in a way that feels nuanced and genuine. Her weird traits aren’t supposed to be cute or appealing- other than her cute design, her behaviour mirrors Stitch. She feels like an outcast, she has violent tendencies and is very morbid. The writers didn’t do this to show off how unique and different and weird she was compared to other female protagonists; they wrote her with these behaviours because it makes sense due to the trauma of losing her parents. She is lost and confused and hurt, sometimes she takes it out on others like stitch does. She’s very attached to stitch and forgiving of his bad behaviour because she sees herself in him and believes he too must be in pain and needs someone to understand him.
Lilo is “adorkable” done right because she ultimately feels more grounded- like a child from the real world. Her peers might not find her endearing but the audience can certainly sympathise and may relate to her experiences.
mega huge giant super agree
The personality type fits Lilo so well because she's supposed to be, what, six? Rapunzel is pushed to 18 because they need her to be "of age" to be in a romantic relationship, but based on physique and behavior, she can't be more than 15; and the original Rapunzel is around 12!
100%
UGH I love lilo so much. She feels like she is so outcast and weird and unlikeable. And she meets stitch. And she sees how the world brands him as unloveable and too different to be palatable. And she sees herself mirrored in him. So she shows him… love. If she can love stitch and stitch can love her, then maybe there is hope for them. Lilo actually makes me cry. She’s so lonely. And she misses her parents. God. I. God.
Yes!! Great point
I think Rapunzel pulls it off the best due to her sheltered lifestyle. Her adorkable awkwardness is directly the result of being socially deprived her entire life. The other characters that followed her sort of just feel like cheap copies.
She and Anna I'll accept, Anna unlike Rupnezel was shut in a little later but yeah similar situations.
@user-gs6zj7dh2s Yea, but then again, Anna knew she was a princess and I'm sure knew the manners and stuff she had to know to look and act good or wtv yk?
Definitely, we're also shown and told that she couldn't possibly be adjusted to the real world during the story, with emphasis on her naivety and her lack of experience.
I think most adults in this comment section are underestimating how competent children are when consuming media, because I disliked Anna A LOT as an 11 year old for her overly animated personality. I found her irritating and loud, and her clumsy humour disorientating and unrealistic. Shouldn't a princess be more refined? Is what I would always think. I preferred Elsa's regalness and quiet demeanour a lot more. She seemed more believable to me at least, even as a child; and I identified with her more easily. I like Ana now and can appreciate her character and naivety a lot more, but I definitely thought her quirkiness made her less relatable and likeable to me as a kid, funnily enough.
@@Tundralondra That's the thing she did know but, judging by her personality she probably most likely got nervous about manners in front of real people let alone a ball roll full of people since she's been locked away inside of her own home until she was 18. The woman was literally talking to pictures on the wall until she was 18. Over time her character development and personality have changed a lot! if you've watched Frozen 2 you'd know what I mean.
@@ToykoDrift-j5e You know what, I understand now 🙏
Thank you for including Esmeralda. HoND gets pushed aside all the time but it has some realistic characters, most of which could teach younger audiences a valuable lesson. (I know it was based off of a Gothic novel by Victor Hugo, but for a Disney film, it's fantastic. They did a good job of taking something dark and making it more digestible for kids.)
All old disney princesses were based on fairy tales so it makes sense
Esmeralda was based as hell
Esmeralda was my second lesbian awakening.
@@PhoenixRising87Nico Robin was mine
@@PhoenixRising87 Meg from hercules was mine
I think the problem can be summarized with "When everyone's adorkable, no one will be".
You sly dog... You got me acting a bit quirky!!!
This... this is my new favourite comment of all time...
Incredibles line
@botspaidbymsm6670 I agree to an extent, I don’t think someone needs to have never seen people before to be a dork though lol.
@botspaidbymsm6670 i think Anna is the worst offender of the adorkable because she felt like a copy paste of Rapunzel. Also i think people tend to forget everyone is kind of a dork for something. but does not make them the same person. From Avatar. Zuko is a dork and so is Soka and they have similar traits. but no one will ever say they are the same person.
I feel this is one of the reasons why I love the Studio Ghibli female protagonists. All of them are unique and manage to be their own character, but still follow the main characteristics that make them wonderful which is their determination (Kiki for wanting to succeed in her delivery service and find herself, Sophie to break her curse, Nausica to save her kingdom, and Chihiro to return home and help her friend Haku.). They all manage to have the determination on what they want to do, while still being diverse in personality and design-wise.
I see nothing but facts.
Chihiro is such a fleshed out character she really grew through out the movie
Eh, as much as I love Studio Ghibli, I honestly can’t really agree with this. It’s not so obvious for a first time watcher, but most role model female characters in Studio Ghibli films do kind of share the same core values, qualities and traits (kindness, stoicism, determination, a carefully measured amount of rage as to pronounce her courage yet her quirkiness…) - modeled after a very skewed image of “what femininity should be” through the eyes of Miyazaki and Ghibli’s other directors. Miyazaki might be progressive in a lot of ways, even in the representation of female characters to an extent (especially back in the 90s) - but the male gaze is still quite palpable upon further inspection. I think these are all admirable traits, but they’re embodied in characters which feel restricted by their creators’ cishet desire.
Again, I love Studio Ghibli, but most people just seem to blindly hold their films up in a pedestal (and the few who do attempt at analyzing them often don’t do a great job).
@@20000dinonot gonna lie, you just randomly bringing in the male gaze without any examples just put me off of your argument
@@20000dino Fair enough 🤷🏽♀️
The adorkable personality worked on Rapunzel because it was unique. But now almost every heroine's personality after Rapunzel seems to be a carbon copy of hers.
Yeah. Personally, I adore Rapunzel--but I think her quirkiness also makes sense for her since she was literally never socialized AT ALL by anyone but an emotional abuser. So for her character, it made a lot more sense. I also just lover her as someone who loves going barefoot and has long hair.
But yeah, other characters need better characterization. Like, Anna is so neglected, I feel like she def could have and should have had more issues with being a bit jealous of Elsa for having more of their parents' attention, or if they don't wanna go that route, have her deal more with the loss of her parents and how she is still mad at them for the neglect too. Make her complicated!
beautifully put. @@ErutaniaRose
Exactly, it was cute on her and she was still able to be serious and mature when needed … but it’s boring and predictable now.
yeah don't need to enfpify every other heroine (speaking as an enfp)
@@ErutaniaRoseoh like maybe Ana is only smiley and optimistic around other people, but when she’s alone she’s drastically diiferent
The adorkable problem in Disney reminds me of this book I read called, "Planet Funny: How Comedy Took Over Our Culture," by Ken Jennings, where a huge comedy fan, ironically enough, talks about how the culture takes excess comedy to an extreme that people are unable to take things as seriously, to be emotionally sincere, or to be able to be as emotionally vulnerable as before. In adorkable characters, much of it seems to pander to audiences' emotional discomfort over far too serious situations, and so there always needs to be some comic relief, which is fine in some contexts, but it often ruins emotional moments. I'm also a huge fan of comedy, but the way comedy infects everything so that something is immediately seen as boring, overly sentimental, or sappy for jaded and cynical audiences if some serious emotional event does happen on screen, because corporations seem insecure that audiences are not going to mock a scene for being too emotionally vulnerable for them.
Okay, that really seems like a reductionist way of looking at media, especially Disney movies. Movies like Encanto, Tangled, Frozen, and others with funny, goofy heroines all have genuinely heartfelt and emotional moments without any jokes at all. I actually think movies aimed at children almost universally get this right (if anything, this is more of an issue with media aimed primarily at adults).
Ken sounds like a wimp
Whedonism and it's effects have ruined modern mainstream wriitng.
Judging by the title of the book, I agree. We’re watching too much comedy and not enough drama to take our culture and lives seriously.
I think a big understated part of this is the facial animation. Plenty of teens are quirky, naive, and awkward, but they don't express awkwardness in their face and body language in the exact same way. But these girls' faces follow the same pattern. The eyebrow twitches, the eye movements, the smiles, the grimaces, the hand gestures, etc. it's all SO SIMILAR. That coupled with the near identical faces makes the trope even more trope-y than ever.
Ohhh!!! Good point! I would be interested to see an awkward and quirky character thats not exaggerated in her excpressions. I think 'turning red' had some of that with the main characters friends.
Wouldn't wonder, if the animators just re-use older animations with a bit of fresh-ups. These characters almost look the same.
i literally thought the girl from wish was isabella from encanto
Yea, im awkward and naiive at times, but im more stoic in my expressions and gestures, especially when embarrased or anxious. Show some girls that stiffen up when talked to!
this is so true. i see a lot of pre-teens with a lot of deadpan awkwardness/quirkiness. If they are being expressive or humorous, it's usually not as over the top as Disney suggests. Many teens with subtle humor. The highly animated pre-teen girls I encounter in real life, I don't actually see that often. Most of the highly animated folks I see are usually older (like in their 20s), and I usually feel like they are trying hard to make me feel comfortable, come off as relatable or trying to sell me something. The over the top, self-depricating quirky sass comes off more learned than innate.
This was my main problem with the Wish trailer. Disney prides themselves on physical diversity, but what about diversity of personality? All the new protagonists act the same. Why not have a reserved, introverted character who doesn’t turn out to be evil for once? That’s what I thought we were getting with Cassandra in Tangled the Series. Finally, there was a Disney heroine I really related to, so of course she became a villain.
You may be on to something here. As Disney extends their physical diversity, maybe they're reusing the same personality so they don't accidently hit on any stereotypes that could be offensive? If everyone is cute, funny, and awkward, they won't be bashed for overdoing a racial stereotype.
@@taybug77Damn.. Why it has to be so hard? There's so many different boundaries these days, that it's just locked up all creativity. It feels like a fear of being offensive controls many creators mindes
@@helichetski hey I’m a creator here: no it hasn’t. People are afraid that they’ll cross those boundaries but they don’t actually know what the boundaries are. If they did, everyone would realize how easy it is not to play into stereotypes
Maybe they're worried about giving "negative" personality traits to a non-white character because they're afraid of public backlash and accusations of stereotyping. So they over-sanitize everything.
and they ALL have the same face. Literally copy and paste all the characters these days. Sigh
This is probably why everybody loves Luisa Madrigal. She didn't get nearly enough screentime, but in many ways, she feels both relatable and aspirational. She's a strong and generous woman, who's greatest fault is that she carries too much
I think the reason Mirabel doesnt get on my nerves as much is because not only does the film have much more interesting and layered characters to fall back on, but her behavior does seem to come from a defined place, or at least seems analogous to what happens to a lot of people in these situations. I've met a lot of younger and/or middle children who aren't as successful as their siblings, and they do tend to end up a lot more socially awkward because of that lack of confidence build-up and constant self-doubt. I think that the problem isn't necessarily with the traits themselves, just that the movie doesn't seem to want to drill into that aspect of her as much as it could have. Her humor could've been used to explore the ways that her family's neglect has affected her perception of herself, with constant self-deprecation seeping through the bubbly mask she puts on better reflecting how their toxic family has effected her specifically. She's just way too confident in herself, which I suppose Disney did to make her a better "role model," showing her tenacity in spite of her messed up upbringing, but I feel like the company's fixation on making their heroines aspirational rather than inspirational has destroyed their ability to make compelling characters. It would've been a much more powerful story to explore the family's trauma through Mirabel, only to end the story with not only Abuela confronting her trauma, but with Mirabel confronting her own. That way it's a reciprocal moment of the two of them finally seeing each other and validating the pain that they've gone through. But the moment feels markedly one-sided in the final film, as Abuela recognizes that the way she treated Mirabel was wrong but doesn't see the material effect that that behavior has had on her.
Luisa should have been the main character
@brycebitetti1402 how'd u use all those nice big words like how do u do that 😭
Yea- her like crippling anxiety in the face of a mountain of expectations had little to no resolution- I wish they explored it more. It would’ve been a much more interesting narrative that way
@@brycebitetti1402i don't disagree! I do think I usually see her as still having some positive self imagine/some self confidence is due to her parents. The movie has many moments of them telling her how much they love her and still see her as special just like everyone else. They made a point to give her self worth and stood up for her against Abuela.
Rapunzel works because of her situation, but also because her adorkableness is actually treated as both strength and weakness. Her naivete endears her to Flynn and the others because they are all world-weary, jaded people who have forgotten their innocence and dreams. But her naivete also leads her to be easily manipulated by Gothel. But the best thing is...her relationships with Flynn and the rest of their friends actually help her grow wiser and suspicious of her "mother".
Ah, yes, "Disney's for children, why are you complaining about it?" Tell that to the hordes of Disney adults who go to the theme parks despite not having children, the ones who collect memorabilia, the ones who are still out there waiting to have their princess moment.
Agreed and I know way too many of them. Ew.
Plus, parents screen what their children are viewing before allowing them to see it. Not so subtle messages will be memorized through songs and merchandising impacting how girls think they are supposed to be. It's gone from needing to be rescued by a prince to believing it's okay to be a complete social mess.
Maybe we need to reframe it as "Disney's MADE BY adults, so adults should look at it critically BECAUSE it's marketed to children"
The ones who line up for hours to get a fricken photo with Pooh Bear while children scream and cry behind them in the line 😭😂
Technically animated movies have become more for adults viewing if u think abt it
As soon as I saw Asha being adorkable in the Wish trailer I really wanted to see someone address this. I'm soooo tired of the same "cute, dorky, relatable, etc" personality every modern Disney woman seems to have these days.
Already the "THE GOAT TALK WITH DEEP VOICE! LAUGH!" thing turned me off from this movie, but then I saw THAT shit with Asha and was like... yeah interest completely lost.
@@theautumnwind8437they’re pretty telling clips to be fair lol
@@theautumnwind8437 Yes. Because a trailer is supposed to be your best foot forward to entice people to watch a movie, and I can already feel how forced the obnoxious quirky modern girl persona is on this character.
Disney has lost its charm
Can't we have duo of a cute, dorky, relatable male protagonist and a serious, grumpy, intelligent female protagonist?
Hollywood acts like there’s literally 2 types of women:
• Adorkable quirky girl
• Edgy punk baddie fighting the patriarchy who don’t need no man
Literally no other personalities exist apparently, or they’re reserved for male protagonists
You forgot ditzy blonde and sweet curvy mom
@@No-ps2zf im pretty sure he probably loves those troupes.
Not really but I see what you mean.
@@No-ps2zfditzy blonde falls under adorkable quirky girl
Thats why I love (old) Cartoon Network maybe they had those archetypes for example in adventure time but they did made them completly diffrent like Pb adorable quirky but also smart as fuck and a bad ass crazy scientist and marcy baddie dont need no man but also very sensitive woman that have a need to be noticed especially by Simon her father figure
I don't feel like Judy Hopps and Vanelope fit the adorkable trope. Judy is very mature, clever, and capable of getting shit done competently, but she has a sense of humor that doesn't come off as awkward or self-deprecating. Vanelope is a precocious child who pokes fun at Ralph, as precocious children do. Ralph is far more awkward than she is.
This! I feel like Judy and Moana both are skilled and smart but because they're paired with a wisecracking male best friend (Nick and Maui) it gets easy to lump them in with other quirky protagonists.
These movies are not made for adults anymore. We grew up and lost our imagination to bills, horrible jobs so we don't become homeless and taxes. The OP grew up and needs to get over it.
And Rey is a scavenger turned Jedi.
vanelope is dorky in a not drowining way
@@JrueThrondsen you are exactly the kind of person who sent hate her way, These movies have genuinely gone down in quality, it's not an age thing
That teenage thing you were explaining, how "not all teenagers have the same personality' THANK YOU!! NO WE DO NOT!
You’re right. I’m not like other boys my age who put stuff other than TP and human waste into toilets, overload the toilets with TP, etc. If that were the strict standard for boys my age I would fake come out as a trans girl
Although a lot of you do like saying "wait what" a lot. It is kind of overused a lot, like the word "like".
@@amberslahlize7961 These are both more widespread in, at least, US culture than current teenagers. I'm 40 and "Wait, what?" was common enough when I was a teenager in the mid to late 90's. Overuse of "like" dates back to at least the early 1980's and the teenage Valley Girl subculture of the time (and those who were teens at that time would be in their 50's now). If teens now are using these, it's probably because creators are referencing their own memories of teenagers and including nostalgic slang, reintroducing it to kids and teens who incorporate it because they saw it used that way in a show or movie, and so on.
@@henrythef1guy768bro what are you talking about
How gross people in my school can be and saying that we are not all the same.
it's the voice acting for me - it seems like all of the voice actresses for the modern disney princesses / main characters were given the exact same direction to sound like a quirky generically american teenage girl, which is wild when you think about how they're working with so many different cultures.
Holy shit. I thought it was just me that has this problem in the voice acting in these new characters.
Yeah I hear it too tbh and it lowkey pisses me off. Not like the voice is bad but giving it to ALL of them?
THANK YOU, I'm glad someone brought it up... it honestly pisses me off how they try to make the protagonists relatable by working with different cultures but only ever achieve that on a shallow, surface level. Their personalities and voices are the exact fucking same...
😂??? Different cultures?! All Americans regardless of “cultural background” behave and talk very similarly
@@kant.68 i meant cultures as in the cultures the movie is portraying, like, for example, polynesian culture for moana - she still sounds american for some reason! and rapunzel is a western european story, frozen is set in what would be denmark, tbh there’s no reason for any of them to sound american when other characters in the same movies have accents!
Rapunzel's adorkable traits also added to the fact that she was raised by Gothel, who is in no way a good role model, but she sort of had this eccentric behavior that sort of resonated with Rapunzel's loud personality. Gothel had to make her think she was actually her mother, so she was never cold or that mean to her.
yes i was thinking that as well! it's kind of necessary for rapunzel to have such a personality because there's no way the story could've progressed without it. her curiosity, her bright composition, her childlike innocence bcos gothel denied her of any sort of maturity, not only is it reasonable it's a driving force of the story.
Plus Rapunzel grows basically alone talking to her pet and imagining his reaction. It makes absolute sense that she talks to herself. But in the case of anna, while alone, she cannot imagine her sister's reaction for she is an actual person, and she still had servants.
What about moana or Mirabel, they've had exiting lives full of interaction, why do they talk to themselves so much, why so much self awareness 😅.
I completely agree with you!
She was also incredibly lonely and board, so it makes sense she would joke with herself, talk to herself, and over all be a little over joyful.
And when she was finally released from her tower, how could she not go run around and enjoy herself? She felt free, and also terrified.
If you like Rapunzel, you might be interested in the book What once was mine, that has a twist cause her power is not healing but hurting (killing) and transformation
there it is explained that Gothel only rarely visits her and actually is not teaching her stuff, she has been teaching herself by reading books and that is where it stems from.
@@verina_crochet_gardenI may sound stupid but what book is it? I have the grims fairytales so I know it’s not that. Please don’t be mean I just want to know the book title
I feel like Judy's kinda awkward personality kinda fits her because even though she wasn't secluded or sheltered from the world like Anna and Rapunzel, she is a country or village girl and is not used to the city as much
Not to mention that she is bunny,a small herbivorous animal who want to be a cop,with bigger other herbivores/omnivores/carnivores
I think Disney sticking to “adorkable” heroines is weird in a way because the reserved and elegant Elsa is WAY more popular with kids than her “adorkable” sister
I always thought it was just because Elsa had a pretty dress and magic but maybe you're onto something 🤔
@@kaileyhallettno I think you’re probably more right on that lol, I feel like most kids don’t really care about personality as much
@@mahi93162 i did a lot, kids have personalites as well
@@mahi93162it definitely is 😂 the vid is right, but it's looking at it from a perspective of writing, which is something the adults writing these films should be thinking about.
Tbf it’s more bc she has powers lol
Isn’t it funny how in an effort to make female characters not like other girls, Disney made them exactly the same?
It’s just a formula to try to appeal to everyone, including a perverted aspect of these women being overly sexualized, if we’re honest!!
@@JamesChessmanwait they're sexualised? when and where?
@@scarletrosekat9444 Disney princesses/ female protagonists, in general. They're meant to appeal to everyone, including PERVERTS so they're supposed to resemble beautiful, sexy young women, The Little Mermaid might have been the 1st example, and then everyone after that. I haven't even watched most newer Disney films, but the ladies are the same: Sweet, beautiful, quirky, with big eyes & big expressions, it resembles hanging out with sweet young women, who are overly excited about everything, because they never did it before, *ahem.* ...And they're sharing their nerdy side with you, because they're so comfortable with you, eww
@@JamesChessman look i am all for feminism but i think the main target audience is little girls, not gross old farts
@@scarletrosekat9444 i dont think they mean like the MAIN audicience are perverts, but they definetely act like little girls but while also looking like grown women, just the type men usually go for... cute but sexy yk
This is why i loved Tiana, her thing was literally working hard towards her dreams and trying to become independent, go girl
Totally agree with this! Tiana was so determined to get her restaurant in memory of her father and she didnt have this adorkable personality, she actually had class and priorities. And the movies soundtrack was amazing, one of my favorites!
Sounds like most black women to me honestly!
She is a mammy bro aha
@@SARA-kh1kp "are you ready" and "almost there" go so hard and I love how they reincorporate them later in the movie too
Real! My favorite movie!
1:22 man the "hope this helps!" so cringe😭
internet comments so mean for no reason. youre entitled to your own opinion and sharing it if you please smh
Frr
Behind every adorkable Disney girl, there is an overconfident, cynical man that uses humour as a defense mechanism for his traumatic childhood ( Flynn Ryder, Nick Wilde, Maui etc)
It's also so creepy that the Disney girls are now adorkable with childish behaviour, unthreatening, anxious/social messes while the men are very clearly adult men who are confident, mature, and are/or read as way older than their respective Disney girl (Flynn and Nick). Like why the f**k was Flynn, the love interest, so much older than Rapunzel when he could have been closer-ish in age to her? The gender roles/stereotypes are gross
@@valkyriedarquese and the fact Vanellope and Moana are both paired with grown big men whom they just happen to become besties with 💀 it almost seems like some pedophile at Disney made their dynamics.
YES SUCHA GOOD POINT!!!!@@valkyriedarquese
@@valkyriedarquese OK, honestly, I didn't know Flynn was supposed to be that old. I thought he was, like, 23 or 24 at most? But honestly, I blame that on the character profiling department rather than its writing: a character is more often written with its role rather than its specific age in mind (rather, it's a more loose "age period" that gets taken in consideration), so his "technical" age could just be a held-over from previous screens. By itself, no one watches Tangled and says "Oh yeah, this is clearly a 25+ years old person" (and most likely, that's the same that happened with Nick, who doesn't feel at all like a man in its 30s).
@@drakegrandx5914 I love Flynn but it is undeniably creepy that he is 8 years older than Rapunzel who just turns 18 in the movie. As a kid I thought he was a bit older than her and obviously had more life experience but for him to be 26 is disgusting from Disney. He's a great character but let's not make excuses with profiling or writing. He's very well written so they didn't need to add the creepy age gap. Unfortunately there's a massive issue with large age gaps/predatory behaviour being normalised in media for girls and women
Vanellope gets a pass in my book because… well, she is a LITERAL child. Not even a teen, just an actual child- and a bullied/shunned child at that, similar to Rapunzel, it’s a given that she would be ‘dorky’ considering her ‘upbringing’ and age
I was younger than her when I watched the movie and I still couldn't stand her. Kids aren't all obnoxious and cringey. Vanellope herself was pretty complex and had really touching scenes, but it got overshadowed by how irritating she was
@@adeleaslan8182you haven’t met that many kids then. Because 90% of them are obnoxious and annoying.
And also she’s surrounded by literal candy the entire movie, so basically a child who’s constantly on a sugar rush - which I think suits her personality perfectly.
@@adeleaslan8182she was around candy…kids act like that ON CANDY like-
@@Coby_Jack692.0 again, I honestly think you guys haven't been around kids that often. Even though me and my friends could be annoying as kids, we didn't like seeing that behavior on screen. Kids aren't always conscious about their own behavior, but when they see it in front of them they can tell something is annoying
Calling it a “slightly different face” is generous!! They’ve changed noses, but beyond that, the facial design feels like little more than a Rapunzel copy/paste job. I won’t deny that there was design overlap with the 2D princesses, but they were so much more distinct!
The 2d princesses I'd say looked quite different, given they all had seriously similar art styles. The versions used o. Disney princess marketing are tweaked to make them near identical but if you grab shots from the actual movies even those of the same race look distinct, even variety in how old they look despite only a few tears between most. Take cinderella, aurora and belle for example, different face shape, eye shape, hair textures. I'd say their builds are the most similar thing in them, but that's a different issue
Now that you mention it, I can defiantly see the similarities. All the recent princesses have circular-ish faces with chubby cheeks, big eyes and long hair.
@@poxidog That’s mostly what I was referring to! Honestly, the biggest similarity I was thinking of is the fact that Beauty & the Beast reuses the dancing animation from the end of Sleeping Beauty.
But if you put Belle next to Meg next to Pocahontas next to Mulan and on and on, there is such beautiful diversity of design AND personality.
I never related to their faces, they look like the typical Instagram perfect face. They always have a button nose, big baby eyes and a heart shaped face - so the traditional beauty standard. Especially when everyone is a different race but they all look the same without their own ethnic features just continues little girls hating their noses, their long faces, there smaller eyes etc
The only difference between Raya and Moana is that Moana has wavy hair and Raya's is straight, and she kind of has a longer nose when you squint.
I think this touched on a really interesting topic that could morph into a whole separate discussion which has to do with the way Disney delivers comedy in their more recent works. Sure, the main characters of old always had their comedic moments but in order for them to be taken seriously, Disney used the role of the “witty sidekick” as a vehicle for audience-relatable comedy. Think about Timone & Pumba, Mushu & Cricket, Ray & Louis; you can go back further to see this in the likes of Jacques & Gus-Gus, Flounder & Sebastian, and Lumiere & Cogsworth. The sidekicks of old were able to play to the enjoyment of the audience in a way that made sure the overall events of the story, and the main characters themselves, remained distinct, intentional, and grounded. Of course, Disney’s modern movies have kept the sidekick model in constant play, but there’s something about them that falls so flat in comparison to the legendary likes of Genie from Aladdin or Phil from Hercules. My theory as to why is that they simply no longer take the time to flush the sidekicks out well enough as their own solid characters. Compare the personalities and motivations of any of the above mentioned characters with the likes of Moana’s pig & chicken. At the very least, my little cousins aren’t racing through the park to get *their* autographs I assure you.
I’d argue one of the following two circumstances is true for any modern Disney film: either the writers aren’t confident enough in their sidekicks to deliver comedic moments properly so they push that responsibility to the main characters making them less realistic and reliable (Moana), or they decide to write a quirky main but keep in the goofy sidekick causing an over-saturation of “comedy” that feels ridiculous (Frozen). Now I haven’t seen Wish, but I’d bet lots they were banking on that goat being a carbon copy of the Olaf/Anna formula.
I also think comparison of comedic content itself in old to new Disney movies would be a really interesting deep dive. There’s an argument to be made in the use of “silliness” vs “humor” and I think Disney’s preference for the former in recent works is a real disservice. I remember absolutely losing it as a kids to the tongue-in-cheek bits in Aladdin and Lion King even though we probably didn’t really understand half of it. The comedy in their more modern works feels pandering and bland in comparison.
Anyway, fun to analyze but I think I’m gonna go watch Mulan now.
The moment Asha said “Is my mouth drooping? I feel like it’s drooping.” I IMMEDIATELY went 🤦♀️
Yepppp! I was like... 🤨
is she not allowed to be silly? whats the problem here
@@pinapplegaming5781 the problem is that it's fucking overdone and tiring
@@pinapplegaming5781 ...did you even watch the video?
@@pinapplegaming5781 nothing necessarily, it’s just that nearly ALL recent Disney female protagonists fall into the category of ‘dorky relatability’ & little else - the thing this video talks about
For the people in the back: Animation is a MEDIUM, not a genre! It can do horror, mystery, sci-fi, comedy, romance, thriller and so much more. At least in Japan they understand this, hence why anime has become so big, even here in the West.
Exactly!!! Animation doesn’t automatically mean “family movie” or for general audiences. Thanks for this comment :)
It's so funny when you see westerners who just discovered a slighty messed up anime and their reaction is "this is problematic and romanticizing xyz problems!!".
It really shows they've been mentally brainwashed by western society's idea of animation as being solely created for kids lol
Somehow the oscars doesnt get it.
@@aeoligarlic4024which is ironic considering animation shows like family guy and the simpsons exist, which both are clearly not for children
Honestly adding Vanellopie here doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Van is a social outcast who is actually bullied relentlessly by her peers, and has been manipulated into believing that she was a glitch in her game, and that she could never actually race. Van is also supposed to be depicting a 9-10 year old girl, but with a snarky personality. She isn’t clumsy or quirky like the other female protagonists of her time. She’s a well composed “annoying brat” who goes through an arc to be more caring and trusting by the end of the film. Her saying she’s adorable was only prompted by Ralph anyway. She only reiterated what he said to give herself a boost in confidence. And she would say that because her snarkiness masks her low self esteem. Vanellopie does not deserve to be lumped with these characters because she shares the snarky personality trait. Her and Rapunzel couldn’t be any more different from each other.
thank you, i was planning to make a comment like this, but you put it perfectly! vanellope being put in the adorkable group was really weird to me
YOU SAID IT RIGHT!!
Van is a kid who is bullied and left on her own. Just as this commenter said, her snarky personality is just a way to build walls to show everyone she's not affected by what they say. She is still an actual snarky person at the end of the movie, but she learns to be caring and trusting. Which does not make her adorkable at all.
She doesn't do anything that's really considered dorky or acts 'cute'. Yes, she is adorable, but she doesn't act how the typical 'adorable' person would. She's just a rebellious kid who loves racing. She isn't adorkable at all.
Exactly. She doesn't belong here.
I agree. But I'd also say that it makes sense that Rapunzel and a little Anna are awkward. Rapunzel, especially because she was locked in a tower for her whole life, only talked to mother gothel, who was manipulating her. Of course she'd be naive and awkward because she's never talked to someone else before.
Anna can also be excused to a degree. She was locked in the castle for most of her life, but she did have the staff and her parents to talk to. They take the adorkable personalty traits, but it makes sense, especially for rapunzel
I think you said it perfectly. For Rapunzel it makes sense; she's naïve and doesn't know how to socialize. She has been locked up since a baby with one (quite eccentric) person to interact with. I think with Anna it doesn't make any sense. Yes she only interacted with grown-ups and was locked from the outside world since childhood, but remember, she was locked up AS a princess. She is an heir of the thrown! You think the staff/teachers would let he act like a goofball all the time? She was practically raised with this responsibility looming over her.
I don't find Rapunzel hard to watch, because with all of her over the top dorkiness you still feel sympathy for her and can at least laugh. I felt like she was legitimately funny at times.
Now I'm not saying I don't feel any sympathy for Anna, but I didn't find her nearly as funny, and she really just feels painful to watch. Rapunzel felt goofy for the sake of comedy and a good way to show she was new to the world she was in, Anna felt goofy for the sake of being goofy, and so does every other princess after her...
It’s high time we had a female protagonist who’s painfully introverted, cynical and has traits from Dipper Pines
As long it does not enter Wednesday Adams territory
@@mayacokie4811kind of like Elsa ?
@@mayacokie4811 or make her a vapid bitch. A very villianness personality
yes please
@@mayacokie4811that’s actually not a bad idea but as long as she doesn’t start acting like a brat eg. Ginny from Ginny and Georgia
I hate this trend because I suffer from terrible second-hand embarrassment. Every 'oops haha sorry' moment just makes me cringe so hard
Oh my god i literally have to pause movies sometimes and just sit there😭😭😭its so bad
Morto per il cringe
FRR SAME
tbh I prob act worse than them on everyday basis so like watching some the scenes feels like I'm watching my past actions and then I get stressed about it so much like I love them so much but girl pull yourself together for at least a second you're making me suffer😖😖😖
SAME OMG i watch things before i go to bed and whenever that happens i hide under my blankets and cover my ears 😭
I completely agree! For a couple of years I’ve been trying to figure out why I don’t like the newer princesses. You’ve voiced it perfectly. Rapunzel is my favorite and I’m a die hard fan of Tangled, but I wish they’d kept her unique and not try to make every girl the same.
Also ever since they’ve started computer animated films starting with tangled, they have made all the girls look almost EXACTLY the same. So not only do the girls act the same, they look the same. Not in skin and hair color or texture, but their face structures for the most part are indistinguishable
Also their mannerisms and the way they move, gesticulate, their facial expressions. It became super noticeable in the side by side scene comparisons. Wouldn't be surprised if that is because disney re-uses animation reels to save money though, maybe that's also why the kept this archetype, cause it sells but overall saves them money during production.
So true
I feel like everyone is forgetting how badly mirabels design was criticized for not being “pretty enough” she was a big departure from the Disney protagonist look
@@lilac3266 I didn’t even know that there were critiques. That makes me sad, I really enjoyed how they tried to make her look like her own person
@@drawingdreamingangels honestly with encanto you have to praise the character design. Despite all of them being in the same family they are all still distinct. I was hoping that disney was going to start branching out with characters after hearing about how artists fought for luisa to be buff.
“And even if they were targeted to just children, shouldn’t children deserve to watch something that is actually good?”
YES!! 100% Absolutely agree.
Shouldn’t we as the creators want to put out something good for them? They deserve good movies!!
I was really hoping that Wish would be a return to more serious and sincere kids movies but I have zero hope or expectations, I'm so sick of *quirky* girlies and obnoxious talking sidekicks.
The goat would be more adorable if he doesn't talk. He could be like Gromit the dog, brave and kind plus it's fun to see his reactions. Too bad he speaks and told a joke about his butt 😑
I mean. That’s pretty much how trailer humor is. Yeah I was hoping for the same. But i was surprised when I didn’t watch such a bad trailer.
Wish was kind of the most descent Disney trailer I’ve seen in the last decade to be honest.
Yeah I’m tired of the adorkable thing too. But I hope Asha will only be like that when she’s with friends, running late, or thinks she’s alone.
And I hope Valentino isn’t gonna make butt jokes the entire movie. I mean, I do get why it was placed there due to the…circumstances. But really, was there no other dialogue they could use?
REAL! I’m starving for sincerity
Heavy on the talking sidekicks
I agree :l
When thinking about the heroine. I don't exactly think kids like the heroine. It's like if you go to a princess party, the kids will go straight to Elsa. Meanwhile, Anna is left out.
Maybe cuz Elsa had all the powers and cool scenes. But ur on to something, all little girls want to be Elsa not Anna
Same with Luisa from Encanto
That’s because Elsa had “The Dress” and the powers.
@@frodo_underhill yeah, i know more little girls who want to be luisa/isabella/dolores than mirabel, not sure why though!
@@leeh4669 mirabel is still pretty popular though. I’ve seen more little girls talking about her than anna
Adorkable isn't bad. It really worked for a couple princesses. The problem is when you make ALL princesses adorkable.
THIS.
and when it's their whole personality too
@@IceCoffee-dl8nm Rapunzel, Anna, Moana, Raya, Mirabel, and quite possibly Asha. Even without Judy, that's a lot more than three. And the other princesses all had distinct personalities. So no, YOU calm down with the "only been 3" please.
That's like a full decade worth of princesses. An entire generation.
@@IceCoffee-dl8nm First of all I'm not complaining about shit, I'm merely saying that it's way more Disney Princesses than you're giving credit for.
Raya is literally an official disney princess, for you to ignore that just to suit your argument is incredibly dumb and ignorant.
Moana has other traits yes(and nobody is denying that so if you think they are then that's on you), but to say that she's not "adorkable" is being willfully naive. Did you not even watch the same video as the rest of us, where we literally see her adorkable scenes and how she gets the same "accidentally hit myself with my own weapon whoops! 🤪" joke as Rapunzel did? Or do you just like to hear yourself talk and convince yourself that you're in the right?
"Rapunzel was locked away in a tower" give me a break. There are many ways to show that a character has suffered from trauma without giving them an infantilized/cutesy "I'm so awkward and dorky and silly!" persona. Quasimodo was also isolated from society and raised with an abusive parental figure, and yet he didn't act babyish and "adorkable"! Trauma doesn't manifest itself in cutesy palatable ways like it's shown in the movie Tangled, and Rapunzel's personality does little to nothing to show her trauma at the hands of Mother Gothel other than her being naive, having mood swings which are played for sick laughs, and her not trusting the people in the Snuggly Duckling(which doesn't even count because ANY young girl her age would be on guard around a bunch of large, scary, delinquent men). She acts that way because the writers thought it would be cute and marketable and nothing more. Mirabel I agree with though, but the rest of the family and her sisters are not main characters. Yes, they are major, but Mirabel is the main character, so stop diverting attention away from this fact to get your half-baked point across.
And once again I never said that I hated it. So clean the shit out of your ears, please? And yes, I think I will go back and enjoy the old classic movies, thank you very much. I can do that and enjoy the new "adorkable" ones at the same time. But don't pretend like there isn't a trend that is worthy of being called out. Get your head out of your ass and learn to make a sound, solid argument.
As a kid, my mom wouldn’t let me watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame until I was older because of the darker themes. Bring this back, Disney. I want Disney films that explore darker themes and character growth.
Also if you notice, Ariel, Mulan, Pocahontas, Belle, Jane, Jasmine, Tiana, Aurora, Snow White, and Cinderella all had very different voices , ways of speaking, and personalities.
Every princess or female lead in these modern movies all speak exactly the same way. They’re also weirdly childish and dorky when they don’t necessarily need to be. It started with Rapunzel and should’ve ended with her.
I agree about the voices. The casting has gotten very very narrow as far as what kind of female voices they will use for protags, they sound almost interchangable. Side characters though, I notice, can have more unique voices to differentiate. It's just the protags. Odd
i mean, they're teens. mirabel's like, a kid. as teens they'll still realistically keep some childlike traits & even be silly and clumsy
@@vickyetienne2962 I get that, but not all teens have to have the same personality. I was clumsy growing up, my cousin never was nor did she have a child-like naive voice, she just spoke maturely pretty young. There needs to be variety. Rapunzel, Mirabel, Anna, Moana can all swap voices and there wouldn’t be a noticeable difference.
@@Jules2439.5 It's kind of understandable why 3 of them act that way: Rapunzel grew up locked in a tower, never meeting anyone in her entire life. Anna had a similar upbringing of never being around people. For Mirabel, it's probably just her personality, as socially awkward people do exist without there being a reason for it.
Moana is the only one that I don't understand why Disney made "adorkable."
@@sailorselina9709 sure, i don’t disagree. But why do they all have to have such similar backstories and personalities in such close proximity to each other? I’m just asking for some variety like we had during the 90s renaissance.
Also side note- I feel like this personality/persona/voice type is specifically to appeal to only small children, and it’s no coincidence that these princesses are starting to resemble coco melon characters. It just feels patronizing, I’d expect even my youngest child to resonate with a more mature character like Mulan, Belle, or Tiana because I was capable of it as a child, as we all were, which is why I think we all miss the old princesses so much and are feeling fatigued by the same old, same old. Maybe it’s just me 🤷🏻♀️
I'd also like to nomiate the Live Action Cinderella as a good example of a positive but not adorkable protagonist. She's nice but she also has an air of maturity and wiseness and we never laugh at her, and can really be a good role model instead of something I can "relate" to. Sometimes we need a variety and not just "OMG SO RELATABLE HAHA".
Sir, mam, whoever you are, I wanna shake your hand. Yes. Just yes.
I agree with you, although I’m not sure how much that can be attributed to Disney. Lily James tends to play that character regardless of what role she’s cast in haha
Preachin to the choir!
Belle and Jasmine in their respective remakes weren't either.
absolutely, and it was really the only good live action remake, too
Disney has forgotten that identifying with a character is not just physical. Having every 'good' character coded as zing adorkable cute!! is isolating for people who are shy, quiet, reserved, not funny, not witty, more mature etc.
Yeah, I never got the "omg they look like me!" stuff, haha. For me, identifying with a character was always about their character, not their looks. Like, within Disney, the characters I admired and related to most were Robin Hood (the fox lol), Ariel, and Aladdin. And I'm a white girl, so only one of those even kind-of-sort-of looks like me (by virtue of also being a skinny white girl - on the top half, lol - there's not much similarity beyond that). I honestly never even considered whether a character looked like me... though to be fair, I did really feel the lack of female rogue-ish characters, talk about an underserved demographic. I definitely agree that diversity of personality is a lot more important for crafting characters that are relatable to lots of people... especially cos even if one movie doesn't have someone you really relate to, the differences means the next one might!
Tbh you can’t understate how many people identity with Anna, Rapunzel and Mirabel
They do this because it works and it only works because of how many people like these characters
You can say that it’s isolating but you can’t say that people only relate to the physical part of it
But there’s also a lot of side characters that aren’t adorkable and in the past there were often less female supporting characters as the stories would mostly revolve around the villain, the love interest and the female main character while now we have supporting characters that people like and can relate to, Luisa being the most recent example
Frozen Princess wasn't quirky,
@@aerialpunkYou’re a skinny white girl that’s why you never cared. Y’all are everywhere.
Tiana was very important to Black girls like myself who grew up being told we couldn’t be anything, much less a heroine/princess.
@@aerialpunkif you're white you wouldn't get it lol. Identifying with characters because of how they act/personality is literally what everyone does. Seeing a character who looks like you when most never do is a new experience for a lot of people. Even more seeing a character who looks like you who isn't villanized/ sidelined just because they're not white
Definitely the ENFP main character syndrome. You see it everywhere, not just Disney. It's been plaguing Korean dramas for decades and it's so overdone. We need more variety of female character personalities! Down with the adorkable
Every 'loved' character seems to be an ENFP, if someone likes them, they are definetly and ENFP apparently
I don't see it in k dramas. There are a lot of different genres, and the characters usually fit those genres.
You also have to consider why it worked for Rapunzel. She was literally a shut-in. She had no experience interacting with other people, aside from Gothel. She was fed lies about the outside world her whole life, so she was instantly on guard and confused when she was met with reality. Her character makes sense considering the setting and story. For these other stories, it's just "Awe, because it'll make her cute." Which makes it hollow and boring.
Edit: Commented too soon, you addressed this later on. Sorry.
I feel like you could make the same argument for anna, she never left either, talked to paintings on a wall, etc
Yes! Rapunzel was the trailblazer for this, the characters following her are honestly just “copies” Disney made because they realized how effective Rapunzel was without actually questioning *why* she was effective.
Shes mentions this in the video
@@sansyeux The comment is still valid, in agreement with the sentiments she touched on in the video, an opening to further discussion. No need for your snark.
@@xmiunax4385 Hence the edit at the end of the comment.
To anyone who thinks Disney Movies are just for kids:
"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."
- Walt Disney
If I be watching it it is for me
"We should write for children just the way we write for adults, only better."
This quote has been attributed to a bunch of Russian writers including Leo Tolstoy (TBH there's no way to know for sure who said it, but the quote is great anyway)
C.S Lewis (The author of The Chronicles Of Narnia) once said that kids can handle darker stories as long as there's a happy ending... So why can't we give kids more darker stories with serious and more mature heroes?
@@melodi_bunniezthis is why i enjoy Treasure Planet and Don Bluth’s Anastasia.
I watched the hunchback of notre dame for the first time a little while ago, and i was thinking to myself like "man it sucks that we'll never get somethign as dark as this from disney again"
I want more Princesses like Annika in Barbie Magic of Pegasus. She was kind and good, but her sassiness was clearly due to the frustration that EVERYONE SHE KNEW COULD DIE. She didn’t have time for silly antics, she had shit to do.
that 's why i liked it!
There are so many books and fairytale retelling that are so well written and unique female characters compared to Disney. I would kill to get some good adaptations of Gail Carson Levine books that aren't a Sherk copy like Ella Enchanted was turned into.
oh, word! I love her
I still remember her remarks, like she wasn't playing with the hunter guy "and yet, your here".
that'd be awesome!
"But do I blame them? NO! If I were forced to sing those same stupid songs for 20 years I would be pretty irritable as well"
I like adorkable, but the problem is making EVERY character have that personality. It's the same with twist villains...they're just oversaturated.
I miss real villains with no backstory that are supposed to make you feel bad for them
@mayln163 That’s one of the many reasons why I loved the recent puss in boots. Yes you had Goldilocks who was more of a sympathetic anti hero who comes around in the end but Jack Horner was like an old school villain. Evil for the hell of it, no motivation, no tragic backstory. While movies now have been oversaturated with either twist villains or sympathetic villains where you could argue if they even should be villains in the first place, he was a breath of fresh air to me.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
@@mayln163 I like villains who have complicated, and even sympathetic, backstories. Let's not forget that the old Disney villains could be pretty redundant too. The problem is a lack of variety. If ALL of the villains are obvious evil villains, it's boring. If ALL of the villains are sympathetic and/or twist villains, it's boring.
@@ameenaceesay1376 YES exactly Puss in Boots had the best of both worlds. It's like how I actually really, really enjoy Hans from Frozen because AT THE TIME the notion of a charming prince who was actually corrupt WAS a novel subversion of expectations. Now the twist version theme is so played out that it feels trite. Disney needs to stop repeating whatever formula is trendy and bring variety back.
We need our main characters to have flaws, but not just "ooooh im such a klutz how endearing is that" because that doesn’t really mean anything
Klutz just means there's going to be cheap slapstick comedy, which is very American imo. It needs to be balanced out with clever jokes, puns, learning new information, communication skills, etc
@@BliffleSplick Yeah, and I think they _especially_ missed the mark on this in the movie it matters most: Encanto. The point of the movie is "everyone has their flaws but they're not that bad if we just communicate," but in not being able to have a 100% villain they kind of forgot the difference between "flaw" and "behavior other characters don't like." Mirabel being curious about Bruno isnt a flaw, it's a pretty natural reaction that her family just so happened to be _extremely_ opposed to. They try to make it seem like Pepa's emotional over-reactions, which is the whole character flaw that started the whole "we don't talk about Bruno" thing, are equal to Mirabel simply wanting to know who her family member was and a good reason for why he's being erased from history Joseph Stalin-style. Mirabel is a totally normal and rational person while _everyone_ around her is dystopian levels of illogical and reactive. They're really telling us a whole town _and_ Bruno's entire family saw him get the power of foresight, watched him use his forsight, then decided "OH MY GOD, HIS POWER IS TO MAKE BAD THINGS HAPPEN!! BURN THE WITCH!! DISGRACE!!" while Mirabel's flaws are just "I drop things sometimes and want to learn more about my family so I can relate to them better."
But not many are actually like that
Yeah, I feel like klutz is a way of giving a character a "flaw" without risking the audience getting turned off by them, because we generally don't expect people to get over klutziness. It's like making them allergic to peanuts. It doesn't really inform the character in any significant way, especially when most of these characters are teenagers and are kinda expected to be inherently awkward and unsure of themselves. If they had an actual flaw like being judgmental, lazy, scared to stand up for themselves, etc. then the writers have to actually work to endear the character to the audience and get them to grow appreciably as a person.
Being a klutz can also be (whether they know it or not) code for being neurodivergent, same with being distractible, or really enthusiastic over odd things@@ariwl1
I'm genuinely so sick of people automatically assuming that every animated film is for children. this is why a whole generation was left alone in a room alone to watch Watership Down as children, because their parents didn't bother to check. animation is for everyone.
My boyfriend got away with watching South Park as a literal child, right in front of his parents, because he was learning English in school and his parents only spoke Russian, so they had no idea what the characters were actually saying or how much swearing there was. He told them it was a children's show and they believed it purely because it's animated.
@@necronatalofficial2805 Yeah, same goes for anime. Nowadays it's more accepted and popular, but there are enough people, who think, just because it's drawn / animated, it's for kids. It's the artstyle! And has as many genres as films with real people! Wish people would see that - even if they don't like it, which is fine. Everyone has their own taste after all.
See also:
-Akira
-Princess Mononoke
-Metropolis
-Anything from Juni Ito
Watership Down PTSD triggerd.
@@blackharmonics4518at one point my mom thought anime was for kids but in high school she came in one time when I was watching I think devilman crybaby with blood and what not. She took it back
Telling someone to harm themselves over a OPINION is crazy nobody is to old for Disney anyway it’s all ages.
There’s nothing wrong with having a main character that is silly, quirky, and a bit awkward and not knowing what to say as their personality as they discover themselves, but there has gotta be more than just that. You have to let them achieve goals themselves and work on bettering themselves as people and not let them stand around acting funny saying cringe quotes cuz they are the main characters. If you wanna let them inspire young ones, let them be relatable in what they are trying to achieve!
Rapunzel and Mirabel straight up aren’t this though
@@Hellothere_453 exactly this is untrue.
Actually it is. No one acts like that. It's genuinely annoying. I know it's 'for the kids' but the character trait of being dorky and cute just cuz they're the main character is so tired. Literally every princess in the past decade had these character traits. Like they portray them as kids when these are very much teenagers/young adults. CORNY!!!
Having quirks in a character is good, but you have to vary what the quirks are, show both the bad and good and make them unique.
@@bratzscene3131 To quote the scourge of Disney... "WEIRD. Weird."
Cinderella and Belle were hardcore. They behaved older than their ages because, in their time period, teenage women were already engaged, had to work if they were poor etc… People forget all the noble traits these young women taught us; courage, bravery, sticking by one’s principles in the face of adversity.
Love Cinderella, but Prince Charming got on my nerves. You don’t remember the girl you claim is “the love of your life”?!
the prince just had a foot fetish 😂
@@YourDearestSmileyIn the original story, she’s called “Cinderella” for a reason-she’s the maid of the house, so she’s constantly covered in ash (due to working over the fireplace) and dirt. When she’s at the ball, she’s clean and dressed in something other than rags, and to someone who’s never met her before like this the Prince wouldn’t have recognized her outside of that.
They don’t portray that well at all in the 1950 Cinderella, so it can be quite confusing.
@@YourDearestSmileyMost of that was really magic tbh, like it was supposed to be magical that the glass slipper fit her. Also magic that it fell off because it’s especially fitted for her so her fairy godmother wanted it to happen like that
@@snapmyneck8818 thanks for the explanation! 😁
I think another issue w/ the "adorkable" mindset is that perpetuates the idea that women can't be anything else but silly or cute. They always have to have cutesy and while that can be good in moderation it still falls into sooo many stereotypes instead of being the feminist empowered woman icons Disney wants to believe they're making. It's like everything else Disney is doing rn: uninspired and tired.
But then people complain that the "girlboss" is ruining disney if it reads too feminist. They literally can't win.
It’s possible to be feminine with out being dorky
@@MsBigact ok, but that's the point. These girls are out here saving the world from being frozen over, from an island goddess, from complete annihilation, why do they have to be cutesy doing it? That's what makes it performative because the message essentially becomes "girls can save the world, but they're still silly little cutie pies who don't have to be taken seriously." It isn't coming from a genuine place and that makes it bad representation. They're trying to do both and they end up doing neither well
@@comedyblastYT maybe because they’re not grown women they are literally kids
The only thing Disney believes they’re making is money, and for what it’s worth, they are, unfortunately they care more about money and formula than anything new or good
It’s like they copy and pasted the same personality onto every recent Disney Princess.
I just want more of a Tiana kind of personality and character. A character who know exactly who they are, what they want and how to get it. You can still build a solid story around a character who knows what they want, without making them feel overconfident, or feel like there isn’t much of a growth in their character, and still have a thrilling story on how they reach their goal and their journey on the way, how their possible overconfident character can potentially be detrimental to someone who isn’t. And so on.
I just want to be able to see more of different personalities and stories built up around them. Because i agree, the adorkable is getting old. Some of them start to not even feel human anymore because of how adorkably they act. In other words, they feel like pick me girls rather then genuine ppl.
tiana is my favorite disney princess. she has such an interesting and compelling personalilty to me! you cant help but get swept up in her dreams and ambitions and want to see her have her restaurant as much as she does.
The only problem with that is to be honest with you it is a good movie but it feels like everything is happening around her. The only "growth" that you could say happens is she learns to have fun a little bit more? other than that she's the one who teaches naveen "hard work" how to survive and she basically stays the same through the movie.
It would have to have good well written motivations and a story like "meg" from hercules where the change is more obvious. But these days I have zero faith in any writers ability to produce that without having some kind of woke, feminist, or SJW agenda behind it.
@@TeaTimeTableI kind of get what you're saying, but I feel like when watching the movie I wasn't looking for her to grow much, just achieve her dream. She was definitely the problem solver of the movie because she had a good head on her shoulders, she just needed a bit more heart. The growth needed to come from Naveen. In a way it seemed like they both shared the main character roll, now that I think about it.
@@TeaTimeTableshe absolutely learns a lesson, the scene with the song from mama odie and her confrontation with facilier show this. She even says it "my daddy may not have gotten what he wanted, but he got what he _needed_ " she learns that not everything is in her control and that true happiness doesn't come from getting exactly what you imagined. She never wanted to fall in love, all she wanted was to fulfill her dad's dream or else she felt everything he did was for nothing. But by the end she understands that love isn't an obstacle, it's a strength. (I love this movie I've watched it a hundred times since it came out)
Careful, they might accidentally make more fake corporate “strong independent woman who don’t need no man” if you know what i mean
Its like 2010's tumbler humor and millennial jokes with a personality of a disney adult. It reminds me of live action disney shows like girl meets world, "the dorky girl"
Yeah the stopped in time in a sense that theyre not innovating anymore, i think this goes along with with hollywood crysis USA is facing since 2018, the don't want to be risk now because it's dangerous
yes! this is super interesting bc you know who’s entering the workforce regarding disney’s behind the scenes. from snow white, cinderella, and aurora, lots of baby boomers and the silent generation are bts. from ariel, belle, jasmine, pochahontas, tiana, and mulan, we see gen x in the workforce. and from rapunzel to now, millennials have officially made their way. some gen z (like myself), are also old enough, but primarily bts of disney is filled with millennials. also, each generation is trying to cater to a younger generation, and that’s important to factor as well. anyways, not saying it’s a bad thing, just interesting to note.
Yes! It reminds me of the Disney channel sitcoms lol
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING!!!
at least when tangled came out, that was the exact era, so it fit. but it fit TOO well, people liked it TOO much and now its rampant.
from the character tropes aside i honestly feel like disney has struggles with “same face syndrome” with their female character designs
ex. big round eyes, small nose, rouse lips, soft jawline/cheekbones/ facial features in general
you could say the same with some of their male characters
Yesss!
That’s what I’ve been thinking! A ton of Disney’s characters recently have been feeling like they come from the same base models: pretty women are circles, handsome men are squares. With only deviation for side characters or characters that aren’t as “pretty”
Yeah that's true, but it is a form of letting their style into the people's mind as a merchandise. Like, when u think about Disney, an image appears in your mind, that's what they want
Not to mention, they're always model skinny, I just wish we had more stocky main characters (I'm not saying being skinny is bad but it would be nice to see more body diversity)
@@Bella-ux4yz I strongly disagree.
Snow White, Cinderella, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan, Megara, Pocahontas, etc etc etc all look very different from each other, yet their merchandise makes lots and LOTS of money.
Disney has a brand. It doesn't need a style. And it would make no sense for the company to be making all different styles for 100 years now, and suddenly they decide to keep the character designs similar is VERY jarring. In fact, it may be damaging to the company's image.
I miss the old disney :( like aurora and snowwhite it was elegent, full of love and passion, and simple. They were dreamy 😭 i miss the gentle love
Disneys ‘adorkable’ female protagonists reads to me a child-friendly version of the ‘manic pixie dream girl’
@@FuriennaYes it is, when it is in excess
They love a 'not like other girls' lead, for every movie
🎯
You nailed it!
This why I was actually really pleasantly surprised with ‘elemental’ (but I think it’s technically Pixar too) I liked how they explored a female protagonist who struggles with her anger. Anger can be such a stigmatised emotion for women, so it was refreshing to see that.
I only saw the very beginning of the movie, and I agree! Anger is very typical for fire characters, but from the beginning she knows she has problems with it, she just doesn’t know what to do about it, and that was really interesting
I didn't consciously notice it till I read your comment, but they flipped the emotional gender norms, having a lady with anger issues and a dude who cries openly 🧡🩵
ha ha I had to reread your comment because I thought you said, "Turning Red". WHOOPS!
As a woman with anger problems, I'm actually really disheartened by the fact there is little to no representation of that and when it is it's just made a mockery of when it's an actual problem
YAAS I love elemental, I remember describing it to my grandparents and when I mentioned Ember, my grandparents said she sounded like me. I took it as a compliment lol
Thank you! I really hate the "it's a kids movie why are you complaining" argument. Like, children and teens aren't stupid. They deserve quality content too.
It also represents a bigger issue when it comes to companies like disney and the film industry in general. Everything feels bland and repetitive. It’s all cash grabs
Exactly. Art is meant to be criticized
Exactly! One of the best shows to learn things from was Batman the Animated Series (90s-00s). It explored and talked about real, deep subjects that didn't hold back.
I.e. drug problems, a former model seeking revenge on the people who threw her away after they felt she was "too old" or not pretty enough.
Show probably wasn't made for kids but it sure came on a kid's network
When people say that, it makes me question why they think that children’s entertainment *should* be bad. “I think this show is garbage, but I also think this garbage should be a nostalgic childhood memory for a million kids.” It doesn’t make much sense.
Plus yeah they're literally family films, like in old Pixar films they absolutely snuck inappropriate jokes in there that kids wouldn't get so that the parents/older kids were laughing too...(ex. "Piston Cup...." "He did WHAT in his cup??")
I feel like Rapunzel was the only one that made sense, because she was locked away for so long she didn't learn social cues or able to talk to people so it makes sense to her circumstances of why she's quirky
The second I saw that Asha was gonna be the quirky girlie type of person, my heart sank. Looking at her style and character design, I was legitimately expecting a more serious character. Every stereotypical Disney joke they showed off in this trailer just made me more upset
We need a Lilo-ized princess. Just UNSETTLINGLY weird. Not able to smooth talk, dead pan deliveries & laughs at the most awkward times that just make it more awkward , puts spoons in empty pickle jars & shakes them angrily princess.
so april from parks and rec?
@@arex9000 or basically more neurodivergent female protagonists
nimona isn’t a princess but she fits a lot of the traits you’ve mentioned! and i would love to see that kinda of vibe from a Disney princess!!
@@TheTailor-01 Disney not taking on Nimona was the best thing that could have happened to that movie, because I don't think Disney would have let Nimona be as chaotic as she is in the final film. I love how unapologetically unhinged she is.
Hopefully Disney saw how positively she was received and give us their own metal gremlin.
@@TheTailor-01I was about to say this
12 year old fan fiction writers have better written characters and more diverse personalities than Disney and that's just insane.
No, no. They’ve got a point. My worst FNaF fanfic from 6 years ago is better than the mass-produced trash coming from Disney these days.
no no, they have a point.
As someone who wrote fanfictions on Scooby Doo and John Wick, Allan and Ken and Shia Lebeouf going mad from the age of 17, I too also believe that my works are better than Disney.
And mine suck ass
@@haihai9022 realness
@@Furiennasays the person who’s subscribed to Disney Records, I think you mighhht be biased lol
Actual quirkyness: Lilo taking pictures of tourists, rambling on to people who hate her about her doll and making a penut butter sandwich every week for a fish she thinks killed her parents
To me Jane was the quirkiest in a good way. You can really see how eccentric and passionate she was. She doesn’t come off forced just to be that quirky girl.
It helps that Jane’s quirkiness is justified by her being in the jungle, so she’s not used to standing on tree branches and being chased by baboons.
I always loved Jane!! she was so passionate about her interests and you could tell every exaggeration and all her quirky extra behavior was out of pure excitement and adrenaline. Also when she did get serious and focused it was such a cool moment and still held that same passion.
Jane was THE BEST!! 😂😂😂
@@kant.68 We stan Jane. ✊🏿
@@beethovensfidelio Yeah I never read Jane as quirky. She's just an English girl who loves animals and science but isn't used to being in the actual jungle.
Honestly, I’m glad more people are finally noticing this trend with the Disney Female Leads. It was fine with Rapunzel and Mirabel, but it has gotten increasingly annoying with the other girls. Not everyone is ‘openly quirky’.
I'm glad someone said that this trend an be done right! I love Rapunzel and Mirabel so much, but we gotta have more personality diversity!
Lilo and Stitch feels like it has an invaluable place in this conversation. Lilo was portrayed as weird and quirky and kinda whimsical, but her behavior *had realistic consequences.* She was bullied, she was othered. She was supported by her sister, which is *integral* to why Nani is the best caretaker for her.
I feel like as soon as Disney started portraying their quirky characters as "endearing and adorable" to other characters in-universe was when they kinda lost their edge. Yeah, maybe Flynn Ryder was annoyed with Rapunzel for half the movie, but that's nothing like the hostility Lilo got from her peers and that just feels kind of important to me. That change felt like the beginning of the end to me.
And if we want to go in a very serious direction (I get it, it's for the kids, get over it, etc), but I feel like irl, people only like quirky girls if they're already hot, cute, thin, pretty, popular--some nonsense like that. You can only be quirky if people already like you, or you're seen as annoying, shallow, dumb, etc. And I think what you said about adorkable Disney girls being portrayed in kind of a condescending way--as if teen girls are all stupid or something--just makes the whole thing even more disingenuous.
By all means, have weird girls. I love weird girls! But stop with this. Say something real and true, you know?
@@Furienna Yes, but Mirabel is also a fictional character, and therefore not an "irl" quirky girl like I was talking about. Disney quirky girls can look however they want, but in real life, quirky girls are kinda shunned if they don't fit an arbitrary mold. That's all I was saying
@@Furienna If we're already talking about it I'm glad she was allowed to have a bigger nose and eyebrows instead of looking like Elsa. But she still has the remnants of the 2010's princesses' safe, cute quirky humor.
Oh the pretty privilege element is so spot on! Just like irl, if you're weird but pretty, you're ✨unique✨ and quirky. If you're ugly, weird, and are into nerdy stuff people would just shun you
Here's the kicker: Lilo was *actually* weird. These modern heroines aren't even remotely weird or interesting. They're played very safely.
"quirky and whimsical" didnt lilo beat some kid up 😭
As a teenager, as a FEMALE teenager I speak for all female teenagers we DON'T act like this
Even when I was a teenager, I considered myself adorkable but not like over-the-top like these characters.
its unfortunate the way they are making the girls more visually and culturally diverse, but oversimplifying their personalities to the point of all being "awkward and quirky". other personality traits exist!
That's a great way to put it!!
i just want to see a princess who is quirky AND other traits! @@lulupomegranate
Meh, the Disney girls & locales have been diverse since the 90s. Even if they slap a new coat of paint on these new ones, they've all had nearly the same body shape and facial proportions since Tangled. It's so superficial... The characters from their traditional 2D works were all distinct as they were all lovingly drawn by hand... I miss it. 😞
sleeping beauty, mulan, esmeralda, belle, ariel, yasmin, tiana how is that not diverse??
Omg yes!
I think the problem is a wider trend in modern media of being relatable rather than inspirational
I’d argue that sometimes relatable could be inspirational, but you’re right because some of these newer films have been missing the mark
This is what I've been annoyed by the most in modern writing. A character being relatable does not automatically make them interesting. Also, everyone is different, so if you try to make a character as "relatable" as possible to as many people as possible, they end up feeling very bland, at least for me.
This is my cue to urge everyone to watch the original Brave Little Toaster. It's everything modern Disney isn't.
Seriously, as a 30 year old coming to terms with getting older and questioning my worth as family and friends become more distant or taken away by death or extremism, the movie brought me to tears a few times, actually.
It's the inevitable result of the narcissism of "representation" and marketable "content" instead of artistry and timeless tales. You're absolutely right, and it's killing a lot of things, not just Disney.
@teshtishtoshtesh3218 I agree that pure marketability is a bad trait modern movies have, representation is not as big or as wide spread of a problem by a long shot, and also goes to helping uplift marginalized groups, which is a positive.
I'm a Mulan stan till the day I die, and I think she's the most unique (honorary) Disney princess yet. She's awkward yes, but she's also SHY! Literally the most relatable trait to any teenage girl, and yet, she's the only outright shy disney heroine
I'm a Mulan die-hard capital "s" STAN, and I completely agree with you. I think her shyness is, indeed, a part of her core personality. But it also stems from the fact that she is always placed by her society or circumstance in boxes and roles she doesn't fit in, or perform well at all. Including during her disguise as a man (since... well, she is not one). Her "toughing up" has nothing to do with abandoning her femininity (although she needs to keep her disguise). In fact, it (her femininity) is ultimately shown to be a PART of her badassery - as opposed to the COUNTLESS heroines who "are badass because they are tough and manly". She never wins by brute force, or even martial art skills per se, but by her most prominent traits: creativity, cleverness and resourcefulness (which are essentially gender neutral traits). In the final act, she sports a not-overly-feminine nor masculine look. She is herself. And she wins by strategy, since the moment she uses a feminine scarf to climb the columns rather than trying to bust the doors with a blunt object - like the men were trying to do (a moment which brilliantly echoes her strategy on the arrow pole at the midpoint). And, at the climactic moment, she uses another signifier of femininity (the fan) as a weapon to outsmart the villain and complete the plan she had designed to win the fight.
Mulan is on a WHOLE other level.
Just in case you aren't aware, Mulan doesn't need the "honorary" before the Disney Princess title. She _is_ an official princess--the "or perform an act of true heroism" was added on to Disney's "either be born a princess or become a princess by the end of the movie" rules pretty much just so Mulan could be included.
And I think what made Mulan's "shyness" the best portrayal is because it's heavily rooted in a depressive lack of self confidence. Because Snow White was also shy, but not at all in the same way.
Mulan believes she's a useless f*ck-up, and desperately wants to change that... to the point of literally sacrificing herself in war.
It gives her shyness an intense depth that characters like Snow lack.
@Pedro_Larroza I think that's why Mulan as a movie works so well! All the characters make sense within the world of the movie. Mulan is shy and awkward because all her life, she's been held up to narrow gendered social expectations. Captain Shang is stiff and up tight, because he's constantly trying to live up to his father's achievements. Mulans father is stoic because he's a retired army man with God only knows what kind of trauma, and Grandma Fa (who was probably not unlike Mulan in her younger years) spent decades under the opressive gendered expectations, and is absolutely done taking shit from anyone
YES omg. also I like that Mulan's awkwardness is something she wishes was different about her. Like you can tell she actually struggles with it, whereas for most of these modern characters, it doesn't seem to be an issue for them, it's just for comedy's sake or as a device to move the plot along. idk if that makes sense but as someone who regularly wishes they were less clumsy/socially inept I relate to mulan a lot in a way.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. The original princesses all had their own personalities unique from one another. 😅
Funny is that Elsa is kinda cold and stand off-ish and she's the one children love
i think kids love the music and the look of the movie mainly lol. Plus Elsa is barely in the movie, it's a lot of Anna tbh and i think kids like Anna but Elsa is 'prettier' so they wanna dress up as her.
Elsa has ice powers so
It's because she has powers and better songs
Elsa may fail as the queen but at least I tolerated her. She was close to a traditional queen.
Everyone else is irritating.
@@mushliiExactly.
This adorkable personality really is the saddest part about the newer generation of Disney heroines because they’re so visually diverse 😩 it sends the message that to Disney, as long as they’re diverse on the surface to appease to the masses, the rest doesn’t matter
😂
I get so annoyed with the new movies having the characters talk in mordern language rather than how they should talk in the time they are from. They can still make jokes without using words that we, as mordern people, talk. Thats the problem I had with Raya (the beginning of the movie). I rolled my eyes watching the Wish trailer when she said "am I tripping"
Yeah honestly. I was cringing at the "is my mouth drooping" part 🤦♂️
I agree that ruined Raya and last dragon for me . Having words like cool or nerd in that particular world in that settings was so Unimmersive
I agree with you, it’s ridiculous. I think the problem with wish and its language (like with Asha and the “am i tripping”) is that Asha is meant to be half black (forgot what the other half is, apologies) and is likely not written by someone who fully understands aave, how old certain phrases are, when they should be used, etc. Certsin phrases have been around for a very long time, and a lot of aave dates back to slavery, but if you’re going to try to make her likable to children of color, understand that slang doesn’t have to be part of that. Tiana was more modern than Asha and didn’t use woke language, and did just fine, so why try to force it on another princess of color where it doesn’t belong?
@@valentinaraffaelli7291 please don’t label aave (which is an actual official dialect) as “ghetto”.
Omg yes! This definitely annoys me more than this adorkable trope. It ruins the immersion into the story/setting. Moana and Frozen immediately came to mind.
I think, though this idea is absolutely true and a pattern, we're taking this a little bit far with some of these examples. In particular, I think Repunzel, Anna, Moana, and Judy Hops all have distinctive personalities (Venelope too, tbh I don't even think she should have been included on this list). The issue is that there is a spiritual overlap in the presentation of their personalities (the repeated tangled and Moana gag for instance, or the cadence of judy hops jokes being similar to the others despite the fact the substance is different) and also the fact that the newer versions of it seem particularly derivative- Encanto, Wish, etc. Repunzel did it first, obviously, but she was also much more spunky and defined by that spunk than the others and had a change in that aspect of her character over the course of the story. Anna is similar in the sheltered, clumsy, dorky department- but her character is also meant to serve as a foil to Elsa and so has a much stronger impulsive, caring, and anxious character- she's honestly my favorite of them because I think she works super well in the context of the movie she's in, and the fact that these traits never really change but rather emotionally resolve as she and Elsa learn to accept each other, themselves, and real love (because of this she also avoids the trap of many of the modern characters in terms of undercutting strong emotional moments because the "adorkable" aspects are her being emotionally honest rather than feeling like a performance). Moana and Judy Hops are more similar to each other than anything, and both have a much more determined, goal oriented, yet niave, outlook on the world than merely being adorkable, and both deal with a great bit more self doubt than many of the other characters. These are all fairly substantial character differences, and they all work differently in the context of their respective stories- I honestly don't think that we'd have much room to talk about this as oversaturated if it weren't for the more recent movies feeling completely derivative of the old, and as such I think this is only a Disney problem post-2017 and zootopia, since that was the last time I really thought it worked.
Another issue I have is how all of these new characters look so similar. Disney and Pixar really need to diversify their art style. People talked so much crap about Turning red but at least the art style was somewhat refreshing.
…Turning Red’s artstyle was sort of an evolution of Luca’s art style (note the bean-shaped mouths), which seems to still be evolving (for example, I think the protagonist of that upcoming movie has a bean mouth)
Why did people dislike it? I really enjoyed it
I would LOVE to see more diverse/interesting character designs, but I’d imagine there’d be a some backlash.
One thing that I appreciate with the upcoming Wish is that Asha has braids and freckles! It’s not much but they’re talking baby steps…
Disney is obsessed with "the brand" to the point they'll abuse their workers to uphold it. Part of that brand is the art style and since they own Pixar they'll force them to maintain brand consistency, too.
I mean I would say raya mirabel and asha all look pretty different from eachother. Especially those first 2. Ppl were complaining mirabels design wasnt “pretty enough” for ages
You know in turning red they made Mei Lee do the quirky face but in that it worked because she was a literal child.
Yeah Mei Mei has the excuse because her whole thing is that she's 13, she's cringey. Its out of place when Judy Hopps does it because she's like.. old enough to get a job and solve police cases. Idk why they thought thatd work. Like i loved zootopia when I was younger but Judy definitely isn't my favorite Disney protagonist by a long shot.
I don't get how she was quirky. She was a straight-A- Student, that loves spending, time with her mother, is cheerful and loves her friends. Also there is no such thing as normal.
@@neru1584How is Judy quirky? I would say she’s grounded.
@@icecreamhero2375I think quirky means clumsy, dork with a positive attitude who has no trouble owning it.
@@genevieveowusu885Yeah I don’t see Judy as quirky.
I 95% agree with you, but I will say that Judy Hopps had a lot more going for her. Her adorkable traits weren't treated as strengths; she had to humiliate herself and apologize through tears ("I really am just a dumb bunny") precisely because her adorkable mouth got ahead of her brain. It's been a long time since one of Disney's protagonists has been wrong about something and had to apologize like that. Now it's just "the strength was in you all along" á la Rapunzel.
I kind of have to disagree. I see you're point, but I think since we saw Judy struggling and fighting to become a cop, I think she should have been a little more put together, or at least put herself together by the halfway point of the movie when she adjusted to Zootopia. She came off as more childish than someone who had been so motivated and determined her entire life should have been, and her enthusiasm didn't need to be as quirky as they made it. But she's definitely better done than the rest
I agree with you. I loved Zootopia growing up and I have to say that throwing Judy in the “adorkable” category seems a bit off. Like yes, she was a bit clumsy at times, but who isn’t? Judy is probably one of the only protagonists to actually be wrong in a very detrimental way to the plot, but she reflected & apologized for her actions, which is something I haven’t seen from a lot of female protagonists. Plus, she was smart, driven, and stuck to her goals no matter the hardships she faced. (Not saying the other girls aren’t smart or anything, but Judy was constantly bashed by everyone including her own family about being a police officer) I don’t think she fits in the “adorkable” category.
Agreed. Could be biased because I'm an animal character fan but her story seemed a lot more developed, nuanced, and relevant than the other examples. She had to confront and admit to her own/family's racist biases for crying out loud.
@@adeleaslan8182 early drafts of her character art show her off more as this no nonsense cop lady that hardly smiled, and I think they changed it to make her more likable for the audience.
Watch the video before commenting, dude
The most annoying thing for me is, all the kids copy how they talk 😭
Exactly and u cant even blame them its so sad
You did too. So stop it.
@@JrueThrondsen no... we didn't lmaooo
it seems like you did though!!
??? Kids copy what they see, I don't know what'chu mean by that
That's why I actually like Elsa. That doesn't mean that she is a perfect character, I think Disney was quite lazy with her concept, but I liked the idea of an introverted, more quiet Disney princess. Elsa is mature, a bit older and someone who is faced with lots of responsibility. She is very reserved when meeting strangers, but very loving with friends and family. She was distinct to Rapunzel and Moana. Disney could have done more with her.
Honestly I relate more to Elsa than the adorkable princesses. I think Disney is forgetting that not everyone can relate to that personality type.
Exactlyyyyy she was also a good example of how older siblings repress their emotions and issues so much and thus becoming seemingly cold and aloof but they just never learned how to emote properly (Elsa was literally shut in her room cus of ONE accidental outburst). She's not quirky just for the sake of being relatable. She has genuine issues hence WHY she's relatable
Queen* 💅🏾✨
I don't care what people think, I loved the Elsas character since I was a child and I still really like her as an adult. Disney could have done a lot with her character, more than they did and MORE than they seem to want to do with her in the future
As someone who is quite shy and withdrawn, Elsa was a welcome relief to me. When I first saw her in Frozen, I fell in love. I’ve never really seen a character like her in media, a shy girl who could be strong and powerful and frightening. Shy girls are rarely leads or are often portrayed as cute and submissive and honestly felt those portrayals to be insulting. Elsa was powerful. And while I agree she could have been explored a bit better, I still consider her one of the best disney characters. And I have no idea why, after her character was sk well received, they keep making Anna clones (not to hate on Anna, I love her its just Disney needs some variety)
The second I heard Asha’s voice I had such a visceral reaction, because yeah, every line delivery sounds EXACTLY like Moana and EXACTLY like Mirabel and EXACTLY like Anna. I’m not the biggest fan of the early princess movies, but god, Aurora and Cinderella have completely different vocal cadence and delivery. You could not imagine that wistful ‘once upon a dream’ coming out of Cinderella, but I can’t think of a single line from these Adorkable Girls that actually feels unique to them
Such a good point 🙌
Tbh, not even their designs. I remember seeing the girl from Tangled and thinking that she looks like she could be the sister of the girls from Frozen. Mirabel looks an awful lot like Moana, just with bigger lips, glasses and curly hair.
The girl from Brave had a bit of an interesting spin, but she also has a Babyface.
Aisha finally got a bit different eyes, but from the nose below, still has the same round, baby-ish face all the others had.
Not every teenager has super round features, damn. I wish they didn't make every character look like various spins of the same face.
MCU has this same problem. All the dialogue has to be "witty" and "clever." It really feels like that Disney is trying to be the "How do you do, fellow kids?" but unironically, not realizing the character is a joke.
This drives me crazy, because the majority of the time anymore, they sacrifice character consistency or an emotional moment for some stupid 'witty' or 'sassy' joke. Banter is like a strongly-flavoured seasoning; makes a fictional meal distinct and appealing only if used in the right way and amount.
Their excuse is to distract from the faulty science explained, the not actually interesting plot and the fact ish does get kinda sad and dark
exactly Thor love and thunder Felt like a million dollar Disney movie
@@iprobablyforgotsomething They just need to make it British style banter.
Uhhh guys, you might wanna check this out...😏
...He's right behind me, isn't he? 😳
I agree with most of this besides Rapunzel and Anna. For Rapunzel, she literally had no human interaction (besides her evil mother) for 18 years, she didn't have any teachers, and not to mention she has never touched grass! or been outside! so I think it's fine if she acts like that. For Anna, it was her unawareness and being easy to manipulate that almost got her and her sister killed. Then she learns from that. Which makes it not a, "oH mY bAd TrAiTs GoT mE gOoD rEtUrN".