UNL EGRL: Mini-scale compressed air energy storage (CAES)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- This video clip shows a simple demonstration of the idea about mini-scale (micro-scale) compressed air energy storage. Recorded by: Energy-Geosystems Research Laboratory (EGRL) at University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL).
I love the simple proof of concept, I noticed the pneumatic motor has a heat regenerative device. have you tried experimenting with heat compressors and larger heat/cold storage systems? Insulate it well enough and I see a lot of ways to turn that waste heat into useful energy. Run the base load water (tank of water, geothermal loop, whatever you want, even glycol might work if you get the right parts as you likely know, (I'm pretty sure YOU know more than me but just throwing out my two cents sir) through a copper loop you welded to your generator/motor to absorb any heat right off, second stop is the pneumatic pump and cool it off, if possible one with cooling built in would probably be better and I know they have to exist. run that warm glycol into the "hot" tank letting it absorb the energy until they are equalized, than you turn on a small heat pump, use (figure out a way to use the pneumatic pump as a heat pump, or tie them together mechanically so you need less generators. Especially since.. My understand is traditional 2-4 stroke motors are more efficient at making HP which is important for heating and cooling, but turbines are the generator of choice for pneumatic energy release. So I wonder does it not make sense to say convert a lawn mower (it's some work and will require some epoxy) into a large pneumatic compressor pump, build a gearbox system that runs off of an electric motor (more efficient then using a generator in reverse right?) So while it defiantly makes things more expensive you would get good enough efficiency gains to be worth while if you implemented a geothermal closed loop "slinky" system, Hot and Cold storage with HIGH level of insulation including multiple layers of Radiant insulation.
I'm hoping to get some old large dirty propane tanks that are still safe for pressure just maybe not great for propane or whatever it's original purpose was, strip the paint, epoxy coat it with some mesh after adding heat exchange coils to the tank (the epoxy will hold it in place you'll use two layers one that's VERY thermally conductive, and another that is the opposite. Then radiant barrier insulate. Then i'm thinking some of those heavy duty basement foundation insulation boards 2-10 layers thick.. lol Make sure they all have radiant barriers, tape it up, moisture barrier it, gravel underneath 1 foot compacted, pour concrete (you weld a massively over spe'c. Lots of ideas to play with not enough extra cash to throw at the ideas.
What was the airflow rate? I am curious how much air you would need to provide how much power for how long. Also the longer the system runs the less pressure available so at what percentage of the tank capacity does the pneumatic motor stop?
I am also searching for this, Do you find anything?
very luxury and wonderful !
I wonder now about the Claude cycle to liquefy air, if it could be done mechanically only, with a windmill. I suppose myself that the problem is it would be a huge, very complex system to built. The decompressing cold and compress heat must be stored somehow for better efficiency and then I think this energy storage is the most green and efficient (so in high pressure CAES or LAES) although some new battery might even be better but they keep working on it and working on it..
Thank you kindly for this demonstration. I aim to go off-grid this fall but the cost of batteries are restricting my options. Trying to figure out if I can store some energy as compressed air. Even if it's less than 60% efficient it's still a lot better than dumping the load (wind turbine) or turning the solar panels off when the batteries are full.
Do you know if there are any off the shelf products I can buy, like this one? It only needs to trickle charge the batteries or provide some power (aiming for 150W). Shouldn't I be able to use a regular compressor and put some home-made turbine on the exhaust to generate electricity? Any tips are welcome.
All the best to you from Sweden.
Looking at the same option, have you ever got around to a solution?
Im looking at the same, we should get a email group set up to see what are finding are
are there any CAES systems that can be fitted to homes? as an alternative to battery energy storage ?
thanks
Most factories use compressors and pneumatic machines. I have seen this work.
I don't see the point!! A tesla turbine will spin hundreds of thousands of rpm off very low pressure air and produces a very very very high voltage output.. essentially a steam power plant off stored compressed air.. this wouldn't light up a room let alone a house or anything like that.. as soon as you put a decent current load on it it will take very high pressure to spin at all and barely power a kettle 😢 i like air engines as models and some bigger engines as novelty items but a tesla turbine generator is the only way to create power in any useful way..
Engines are usually used to generate higher torque and thus a greater electrical current, while turbines are used to generate high speed ( High RPM ) and thus greater voltage. Everything has its applications. Do not expect your small 1.5 volt TV remote battery or even a cell battery to power your house, as it cannot even power an inverter ! However, they have their applications, so it cannot be said that they are not useful. The same thing is with the device in this video or any other device, although it is small, it was able to operate two tungsten lamps, so there may be things that contradict expectations, so we must not be certain about our words.
Could you please share the details of that compressor. Thanks!
It looks like a simple pneumatic pump with a heat regenerative device. you'd have to get one scaled to your application.
The idea is simple the implementation is the hard part. I love the idea because mechanical battery's burried inside a concrete slab under the house in a reinforced wire mesh (just encase it ever goes pop) Keep it's top at least a foot 10 foot under ground (if you live in warm climates, colder should go deeper) it'll be regulated by the earth, you can add a thermal loop using geothermal loops" to dissipate the heat, or you could tie it into a generative system like i'm trying to design (SO COMPLICATED, It's just a normal nerd not near an expert)
Stuff's complicated but if you want more then a few seconds of power you will either have to get a LOT of tanks and connect em in series, and/or a couple big tanks in series. You're best best is to have either a gearbox or two motors. It's more expensive but you get better results (but it's more complicated)
Basically take a "turbine" style generator like a windmill (That's literately where i'm sourcing my parts for the prototyping I will try to make a open source well documented article on it but it's at least a years off so... don't hold you're breath lol.
But geothermal, pneumatic, and thermal regenerative tech (using heat pumps and thermal mass/lack of thermal mass for cold battery's).
Did I mentioned it's annoyingly complicated. I'm looking at working with alcohol to move heat to and from the pneumatic to having to get clever and try to machine some fins and weld. Air is a decent battery but run it for long and it'll freeze it's self over quickly, that is after all how an AC works. So doesn't it make the most sense to use a geothermal system, with a hot and a cold tank (or several) to dump the waste heat and the excess cold. You might be able to run the HVAC off of compressed air instead of electric. wonder what kind of diminishing returns "near unlimited" nonsense you could tr y to fake on youtube with that. Joking I obviously don't believe in unlimited/perputal energy but energy recovery is VERY important from what I understand it improves the efficiency of the air battery by %40+ percent for energy density (cold air is less PSI, warm air is more, this is also how fridges work and why to much releasing without a warmth or heat regenerative system will freeze it over unless it's very small.
If you can inject the heat "Waste" you collected while compressing the air back into where that thermal regne dodad is you can do some incredible stuff. I've spent way to much time on this but it's a really neat idea.
I feel you are using a piston motor to run the dynamo. Try using the Tesla turbine, it's more efficient, less noise.
It's not that it's more efficient and less noisy, it's about the design itself. engines are usually used to generate high torque and thus high electric current, while turbines are used to generate high speed ( High RPM ) and thus higher voltage. The noise issue is simple you can isolate it.
How many watt hours did this tank provide before reaching 0 psi?
That's amazing.
try near isothermal CAES, up to 200 bar (a scuba tank works)
-for compressing i think (correct me) just pump cold air in the compressor intake
-for the decompression you need to heat the tube between tank and the air engine
Well... he used a kilowatt-sized compressor, maybe drawing 30Wh to fill that tank at 100psi to power not one but two... ~100mW flashlight incandescent bulbs for... how long? 5mins?
Exactly my thoughts. I have been going through equations over equations computing the air consumption of a reciprocating piston compressed air engine, and in theory it can only produce a 10th of the power that is being put in the tank.
@@3dprintwiz378 That's still a good result. I've seen some medium-sized PV installations capable of 3MW monthly (during summer season) so it would be 300kW. That's enough to supply home for nearly entire month.
year old video so this is a long shot but what is the ration of wattage output to psi in the tank? like if i have that tank at 100 psi, how many watts is it going to output. standard appliances are 24 volt.
Well, there'd have to be some intermediate steps up with gearing and flywheels, add to this some loss in efficiency for consistency? I don't see any reason you couldn't have consistent power generation as strong as you scale it up. Maybe use a wind turbine to drive the compressor?
Nice video 👌. I wanna know how to store compressed air in a chamber for a particular period of time. And let it out in a particular angle like burst. Pls reply me
How many volts and amps output? For about how long would that tank last?
I would like to make one rated for 2,200 psi at 55 gallon in size of air tank for kinetic energy in a vehicle.
That is a lot of air! 2200 psi - not sure that is practical without also cooling.
Cheers
Can I pay you to make me something like this? Or pay you consulting fees to get all of the correct parts?
Would have been more convincing if they had closed the valve on the fill side of the tank before they opened the output.
Using compressed air form windmill air compressors use solar to preheat the air before going into your air motor.
why pre heat it?
@@austinjohnson4890 It would increase the amount of presurized air going through a turbine. Compressed air cars do it with a little fuel powered air compressor cooled by the expanding air.
can you please provide the type of air pump you are using? thank you
Whats the size of Energy Storage Tank?
How long does it last for ?
Probably 60 seconds, those air motors ❤️ lots of compressed air
effisiency will increase if you apply with add water(water circulation)
can you elaborate on this or even a link to show that would work? thanks
Would it take more energy to fill the tank than its potential output?
Most likely yes, due to frictional losses. But does it matter if you are using, let's say, wind or solar power to compress the air?
Absolutely yes : )
You can only get ( 18% ) of the energy of light using photovoltaics !
Nothing is perfect, you cannot produce more than you put in.
nice
Hi, can you calculate how much 10,psi produced electricity for 1min or 10 second
If you want it to be a usable amount of power, you are going to need a large tank for that amount of pressure.
Energy efficiency?
The sound is so bad I have no idea what you are saying! So I turned on subtitles and the result was hilarious: @0:59 "air compression now their virginities" lol
"for quite a period" lmao
i want to make this for my fyp. Do you have a detailed description on how you made it? and which source you took to take the air from to compress it? Thankyou
The air source used for the video demonstration is ~90psi compressed air that is supplied to the building. And we used an air amplifier (Haskel product) to pressurize it further up to 1500 psi (~10 MPa).
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Please Seunghee Kim leave mail here. I need some more information. Regards from Poland.
Please send any inquiry email to here: seunghee.kim@unl.edu
Wyatt if you use water to store the heat and then insulate it, use the hot water to warm air
How much time this method could be on?
It depends on the efficiency of the generator. The one we used for the video demonstration is just an off-the-shelf product, so efficiency is not that good.
@@seungheekim1445 it depends on your air motor efficiency which is less than 60% with this configuration that has no heat storage. Electrical generators have high efficiency with proper control system. I have built a 1300 W system and runs for 10-20 minutes depending on the control scheme.
What about using a 5000 psi tank like the air car did
@@hanifsedighnejad2576 Would you be able to share all the details? How much air (L) and what pressure (psi/bar) did you store it at? How much energy did you consume while refilling the full tank?
The electric motor is not always highly efficient, as its efficiency decreases at higher speeds. Electromagnetic coils ( electromagnets ) are inherently inefficient and energy-hungry and lose a lot of energy through heat. There is also no need to complicate the system with consumer electronics, as it is known that electronics are very complex and require specialists, as they are sensitive and consume energy.
Sou dono desta patente gerador pneumatico sustentável Luiz Henrique Thomé Brazil.
This is similar to a trompe.
My dreams of pedal power air compression to dynamo for free electricity, shattered in 2 mins 52 seconds
If you are confident and determined, your dreams will not be shattered. Keep your promise.
go to gas station fill up your tank, being it home, turn your generator, and you get yourself virtually free energy. and less one day gas station charge you a fee for filling your vehicle tires.
:-D
Lol, how do you plan to drive to the gas station? With electricity, gasoline or diesel power? What sources are used to deliver your vehicle power?
What powers the gas station compression?
If all of the above, excluding fossil fuel, are powered by renewable sources, (never mind how negligible things your vehicle tyres, shoes you used and the like are produced 😁), then yeah, it's free energy!!!
work goes much faster with Avasva plans.