I had a house in Detroit that was over taxed. During the housing crash the taxes were more than the value of house. I remember Detroit officials saying that people should pay their fair share of taxes. It's like thieves saying you should have better stuff for them to steal.
There's one really funny thing I find about this. The appraisals and the tax rates are all based on relative value, which means if enough places are over that valued then if you reduced everybody to the correct value then everybody would still pay the same amount
@@robertalatalo5904 That's one of the things most people don't understand about property taxes. The assessment of the property merely determines your share of the tax burden. It's not like income tax where you pay a certain percentage of your income.
Stealing $100 in California doesn’t get the thief a jail cell these days … And if the crazy thought process that created that situation in California moves to your area …
If I make a mistake on my taxes I get a costly penalty. If an organization that taxes me makes a mistake on my taxes, I get a more costly penalty than if I made the mistake. I can't help but to wonder if the City of Detroit did that by _"mistake."_
@@thatsreality5184 I don't see any law to that effect holding up under scrutiny. You can't absolve your legal responsibility when unjustly enriching yourself.
No doubt! Our politicians and bureaucrats have shown they will waste millions to save themselves a little time or money of their own while most people on the street will pull out a credit card to solve problems if the net benefits look good. Happens EVERY DAY!
imagine how frustrated you would be when you find out Detroit had $600 million more than it should have had, but your city services still aren't any better...
Happens everywhere to different extents. Bloomfield Township overcharged the residence for water to the tune of $12-16 million dollars. After years of litigation, they were found "guilty" and ordered to pay back the money to the citizens (who will be the ones paying for the judgement) and they appealed that ruling. Whole time they are using outside lawyers which if not yet at or over $1 million, has to be getting close.
While your walking the streets looking for shelter but nothing has been cleaned since the sold your home and pocketed ALL of the equity and profit in your home...so Detroit got $600m in taxes PLUS the profit and equity you had in your home.
I was thinking that too. 600,000,000 surplus but still went bankrupt or failed to improve anything. I think Detroit has had numerous outstanding debts accumulating over the years until they couldn't pay even if they wanted to, and this latest incident is just another example. Here's the thing, Detroit has large areas of abandoned real estate, owned by the banks but the banks aren't interested in selling for less than what they think they can get. Well if no one is buying them you're pricing is wrong and that keeps new money out of the market while you keep paying taxes on something you're not making money on. Detroit is perfect for a housing and industry revolution that would turn things around within ten years, but I don't know what is keeping them from doing that.
I have a well in S. California on my homestead that pumps out crystal clear water. It can get to 120 in the summer here, 5% humidity. I can not understand why these people don't have safe drinking water. Are they being culled?
It's funny that when there is an error in taxation in favor of the city/state/fed they expect me to pay IMMEDIATELY but when they don't have the money they get the opportunity to basically invent their own payment plan
wouldn’t it be nice if all the people and companies of Michigan just stop paying their taxies in solidarity of the shameful corruption, though it seems that the state has allowed this to exists unpunished - could you imagine how fast action would happen - a state constitutional amendment would shut down this practice of deferment 🤔....
The thing is, no matter how they compensate the people, they have to get the money from somewhere, so that just means more taxes to pay for that compensation. That means they pay themselves back. None, if Detroit owns unused property, they might be able to sell that to give some money back, but that probably won’t be 600 million dollars
Imagine that, the city being unable to pay for something they legally should, but they get away with it, but people that couldn't pay the city for something they shouldn't have needed to pay... lost their homes.
Its called a DOUBLE STANDARD. Poetic justice would be if the 100,000 people who had their homes taken from them get together and as a group demolish the homes of the politicians responsible.
All I can think of is all the emotional harm that ‘robbery’ of homes and equity, caused those unfortunate people. They are victims of a tax crime, but I doubt that they will ever see any real compensation. EDIT: That is such a huge amount of extra money-- what was that money used for??
Sure, but that's also a very different situation. In your scenario, that's 1 person who owes $1,000 to 600,000 people (the population of the City of Detroit). Right now the scenario is that 600,00 people each owe 1,000 dollars to 100,000 people.
@@Mavendow his math would say 600 million, since 600k by 1000 is 600m. If it was 1000k per person it would still be only 600 billion. I've accidentally carried too many zeros before too, so it's understandable.
Years ago I bought a home in Detroit proper through county tax auction for $500 and was my primary residence. The house was one of the few livable homes in the auctions. Just a few months later the city tried to foreclose it for the taxes that where wiped out in the auction. All thanks to Kwamie Kirkpatricks antics
That happened in the UK at least once. A guy who'd spent six months in India, continuing to pay his mortgage all that time, and came back and found that The Woolwich building society had sold his house at auction to someone else. But his mortgage wasn't even with The Woolwich, it was with another building society, so The Woolwich didn't even have the title deeds. Once the story made national headlines it suddenly went quiet very quickly, which suggests the Woolwich paid a lot of money to make the story go away.
I see the over taxing the same as theft. If they can't return the money and properties, the people involved need to see some jail time like any other thief.
See, the problem there is that you are treating this like it's simply theft. This wasn't theft. If the state wants something, they send armed thugs to grab you, kidnap you, hold you against your will, and then take your shit. A "mistake" like this must be met with the same level of force people would be allowed to use on a smaller Mafia. Termination of the offending party's life functions, until cessation of aggression towards the defending party.
And which mayor would this be? the one who presided over the city until he was convicted on federal charges with a 28 year sentence, later to be set free by Trump on his last days in the White House. Or the current mayor who is stuck in this deep hole with no available assets to repair the damage that was done before he took office?
@@robertkohler4173 He can start by making things right by calling in the DOJ, and putting any family affected by this travesty/farce back in a home that the city owns of similar quality or better. It will work out and is not complicated.
I would imagine this will turn out the same way as state and city pension funds were not paid in to as they contracted. A judge will make the problem go a way for the city and those wronged will be left holding the bag.
You know what I'd like to know? How many of those "lost properties" were at or near the new Gordie Howe Bridge development? It'd be interesting to find out.
This was my first assessment. My guess is it was to balance the budget but what services were attained? I honestly think that money filtered into some undeserving pockets.
@@johnwidell8092 I suspect there is more to your story. Did you just buy the house? Was it new or existing construction? What % do you get by dividing assessment by sale price? (Or by estimated value if not just purchased?)
I remember hearing a story from VinWiki about a police precinct in the Detroit area illegally confiscated a super car and claiming the owner donated the car to the precinct for free. And they paraded the car on live TV saying that the car was a police car now.
@@sjb3460 ummm...i didn't read any article or story. i simply said that i HEARD a story on vinwiki. the last part of the story was that the teller was in the process of suing the precinct and the individual. so there's nothing for me to "re read."
If I were an affected person/family, I'd tell them "fine, you won't make me whole with cash or tax breaks, so I want free electric and water for the next 20 years" and if they won't do it, start a class action lawsuit.
That's the whole governmental system, from cps, law enforcement to judges and nearly all government entities. We pay government only to be harassed extorted and even put in a cage.
Well, lawyers will jump on it. If you are first in, you stand a chance. After all you could always take possession of their assets, sell them off at an auction.
Just break it up into smaller cities, it is a total loss for sure. Enough already. Maybe them elections can be more fair and audited - they had to stop recount in 2016 because none of the numbers matched. We have no way to know who actually won any vote where Detroit was involved.
Steve, I have to disagree with the premise that they can't do it. The City of Detroit has many luxury items that could be sold to cover this financial situation. What is the value of Manoogian Mansion and its contents? What about the luxury furnishings of the Detroit executive offices? And don't forget the Detroit Institute of Arts, while it is nice to have these things if you can afford them Detroit cannot. I would hope the courts get involved and a judge makes that same determination. I would also hope the Attorney General investigates to determine if this overvaluation was intentional and if it was holds those responsible accountable.
Had to do some research, in 2014 ownership of DIA was transferred to Detroit Institute of Arts Inc. Listed as a non-profit. However, no sale price was listed so I suspect a strong case could be made that it is still the possession of the City of Detroit. Public information is akin to transferring you house to your mother so the ex can't get her fair share.
You def have to watch your assessment every year! 5 years ago one of the town assessors assessed my house 30K more than all the other same sized and very similar houses in my neighborhood. I proved the dope didn't even get out of his car or bother to change old information, for instance he wrote (or left it on the property card) that my roof was old and needed replacement. When he did the assessment the roof was only 2 years old, as the prior owner had replaced it. He wrote other things that were not true, like "everything new" which contradicted the old roof comment etc. Then they claimed it was assessed higher than the other homes because I paid what I paid for the house which I had bought about. year or two prior. I printed up the assessments for similar houses in the neighborhood, three of which were bought for a similar price a year prior to my purchase, yet they were assessed at 30K less than mine, some were even slightly larger or had more improvements. Anyway I got the head assessor to come out and he wasn't expecting the ammunition I had ready (words and evidence I mean, not actual), he fumbled on his words, then he admitted that they fired that assessor because he was so bad at his job. Needless to say I won, and they reassessed my house to match that of the other similar homes in the neighborhood, 30K less. I filed a tax abatement and got the money I was owed for the difference in taxes I had already shelled out, and it was WELL WORTH THE TIME! Don't let some aloof, lazy assessor over assess your house, if they do fight it! Make sure you gather proof before doing battle though, get your property card, and print up the assessments from similar homes in your area!
In Australia property taxes are based off the value of the property. Just the land, not anything attached to the land like a house. Makes it far easier to get an average mostly accurate assessment, without paying a mob of assessors.
The $600 Million in wrongfully collected taxes is chicken feed compared to the actual damage done. Median home price in Detroit in 2016 was 165,000. Multiply by 100,000 homes lost is $16.5 Billion. Where did this value go?
I had an acquaintance who, straight out of college, started flipping houses in Detroit. He moved to Detroit and made a concerted effort to make his neighborhood a better place. He would buy foreclosed homes and let the people stay in them if they just paid utilities to keep the neighborhoods intact. He would organize neighborhood cleanups and crime watches. It took about 5 years of battling the city for getting basic things done, and being picketed by activists calling him a slumlord before he moved across state. Detroit, to this day, has major problems.
There was some guy a few years ago, trying to help resolve the homeless problem in Los Angeles, he built small shed homes for them to stay, , etc everything..city came in shut him down, fined him, etc destroyed the homes, say they were not safe, permitted, blah blah...he had to shut it down. The large cities talk the big talk...but never do what they say they will do...and people keep voting them in. smh.
@@charliegone1652 it was because LA had just put out millions of dollars to help solve homelessness. The guy who did the tiny homes spent $100,000 of his own money for 10 tiny homes. LA seized and destroyed at least 3 of the homes. Apparently he made the city of LA look bad. There are a couple of y..tube videos on it.
This was probably done on purpose. Some city lawyer looked at the law and decided that it would be easy to over assess a houses value, and when the people couldn't pay they could just take the house, sell it, and keep all the money. There's no way this was accidental, they knew what they were doing.
They stole your money. They partied it away so they can't give it back. No one believes it was "an honest mistake". Only politically connected people with an entire police force to protect them from their victims could ever hope to get away with this. At least they got kickbacks from all the politically connected companies and individuals they gave your money to.
Totally agree with the point of holding public officials personally accountable if it's proven they act with purpose. If an official can potentially lose their home or pension/retirement, I would submit they would think twice about acting illegally in office
The question, to me, is has Detroit reached or perhaps gone beyond that tipping where this city can't realistically be salvaged, back in the 1970s we considered buying a home in Detroit, so glad we changed our minds, seems this city is beyond hope???!!!!!
It has been beyond hope since the 80’s, when Robocop was made. But it’s really been longer than that, ever since the party of Roosevelt took control of the city robbing citizens blind and never looked back.
I met a title insurance guy at a backyard BBQ just after the 2008 housing crash. I asked him how the title insurance industry handled title insurance costs when all these WW II era houses had deteriorated so much as to have little or no fair market value. He surprised me by saying his company had a standard of requiring any request for a title insurance commitment to be part of a bundle of ten homes. Otherwise, it wasn't economical to do the title check work and produce commitments. Property taxes are worse than even described by you. The process for calculating the "assessed value", by law, cannot include anything defined as a distress sale, such as the price realized at a mortgage or tax foreclusure auction. As a result, the assessed value does not reflect the fair market value. Ten homes on your street may have sold for $100 at that year's tax foreclosure auction, but if one home sold for $10,000, your home will be asessed at $10,000. It's more like "the value a seller might achieve in a really hot real estate market when they can afford to wait for better bids". Lobbyists write the laws. Local government is a very powerful lobby. Of course, when a financially distressed homeowner gets his Notice of Change in Assessment in January, the likelihood he'll understand how to appeal it is slim, and the odds he'll know how to put together a compelling presentation of the actual fair market value are even slimmer. The odds he can afford a lawyer to handle the appeal are zilch. The City of Detroit knows that, so they have had no incentive to reduce the assessed values to reflect declines in the value of homes in Detroit.
Well ok first cash in the council, past and present pension funds going back to the beginning. Seize thier personal property, vehicles. Also the management of the property tax assessment bureau. Garnish wages. Sell off city vehicles for the department and city council. Issue bus passes. Liquidate city owned property. That is a good start
Given the damages occurred with forcibly uprooting people, and no replacement homes on hand, I’d imagine the total number to be well into the billions range.
In my opinion if the "government" takes my home due to an illegal screwup on their part and the CRIME finally comes out then the ONLY restitution that I would accept is that my home is returned to me in at least the same condition that it was when it was STOLEN from me. If MY HOME has been upgraded by a subsequent owner then that is beside the point... MY HOME has to be purchased from whoever is now SQUATTING in it (because I STILL OWN IT and they are living in it WITHOUT MY PERMISSION...) and if they now have to pay however many times the money that it was worth when it was STOLEN FROM ME, that is definitely NOT MY PROBLEM... MAKE ME WHOLE AGAIN !!! If it has deteriorated in the interim then I need it to be demolished and rebuilt. AS IT WAS, whatever the cost to the criminal enterprise that stole it from me originally. And yes, I use the word "STOLEN" because they took MY PROPERTY from me and they should not have because it was ILLEGAL. Why should I as a citizen WHO DID NOTHING WRONG be forced to loose because some city or state department were so incompetent as to allow this criminality to take place ??? If there is now a hospital or mall on what EFFECTIVELY IS STILL MY PROPERTY then that is NOT MY PROBLEM... In that case I MAY accept being given a property IN A LOCATION ACCEPTABLE TO ME and have a home built on that land THAT IS AT LEASE EQUIVALENT TO WHAT I HAD (or in this case, SHOULD legally still have). Now people will try to tell me that this will be impossible because the city/state/whatever cannot afford to do this to which I answer "Neither could I afford to illegally be stripped of my home/asset" ! Sue everyone involved AND anyone who could have benefited from this crime like spouses, children, business partners etc and the government would have to foot the bill for the rest. No IFS, ANDS or BUTS, at the end of the day I need to be made whole again - COMPLETELY WHOLE. And if that means that I get compensated with title to 300 acres of prime woodland that I feel is equivalent to what I lost, then they must sort their crap out and make it happen - PERIOD !!! And please do not tell me anything about "limited liability" or any of that type of bullshit, there was no "limited liability" in place when my property was STOLEN from me so to bring it up now is just criminals trying to duck the issue - IT IS MOOT...
So, what happened to the 600 million that was collected to start out with, I'm sure that between the ones that found a way to pay and the homes that were foreclosed on and sold the city came out ahead.
I agree. ALL taxes are WRONG. We don't need roads, or public education, police, firefighters. All the latter do is allow public employee unions to steal from the public they''re supposed to serve, except for the educators, who are worse, because taxpayers are actually paying THEM salaries to brainwash our children and turn them into communists and transgender white-haters. This nation will only be back on track when ALL taxes are outlawed and ALL the Democratic pedos are in prison along with the RINO Republicans. Then and only then, we'll finally be able to have good public services again!
I worked for A mortgage company during 2011 housing calamity in Detroit homes were left to rot had negative equity that some banks released the liens due to liability and taxes yet the homeowner still lost the home to foreclosure due to not having the money for taxes or not wanting the property at all .. there was a time where homes were worth $500!
This is the type of corruption that should have people rioting in the streets. You cannot displace a 100000 families without provoking at least 1-2 people into a response.
if you look at aerial views of Detroit from pre 2000 to current view, you would see whole neighborhoods have gone from normal city living spaces, to trashed out crack house, to what is now wasteland of empty blocks with no buildings at all.
People falsely assume that once the mortgage is paid, they own their home. A paid mortgage only satisfies the agreement you entered into with the bank. Most mortgage payments include escrow portion to pay the taxes and insurance that remains. You can never pay off the obligation between you and the city/county/state because they hold a forever lien over the property giving them the 'right' to charge property taxes. Don't pay the taxes and the sheriff will evict you from the property because it will never be yours; ever. The localities can and do force people out of their residence even when a mortgage is held by the bank. It is called eminent domain. Guess who still owes money to the bank when this happens...you do! Lawyers can fight it but only the lawyers get paid and you loose everything.
Well I think a good start would be to foreclose on all the government officials that were involved in this and give the proceeds to those wronged. Yes its only a drop in the bucket but if the consequences actually start coming home to roost for government officials doing a poor job or abuseing their power then maybe future ones will think twice about their actions.
I am coming to believe that impoverishment should be a penalty for this type of felonious malfeasance by governmental managers and employees, elected officials, business owners that defraud customers, corporate management, and board of directors who allow corporate managers to commit crimes. If one knew that one could lose EVERYTHING you ever worked for if you commit a crime at your job, you would think twice before losing your nice home, fancy cars, vacation homes, boats, pensions, investments, etc, and then ending up on public welfare that is paid from the sale of your former assets.
You go to Federal Court, get a judgment, and place a lien on city property.... and SELL IT. You have an admission, of constitutional rights violation, see title 42 Sec 1983
@@hughmccurdy3348 That's their problem, and not the problem of their victims. They should have thought of that before they committed the crime. Start with the seizure and sale of the homes, vehicles, and high value property (and you know there is some) of the mayor and city council members involved in the crime. After that, time payments, from those involved to their victims. What should not happen is yet more taxation, or laying off the employees who weren't involved. I get what you're saying but "meh, ain't got it" should never be accepted.
@@jreese46, What was the crime? I'm not saying what they did shouldn't be a crime. I'm questioning that it is a crime. (If it is a crime, why isn't there a prosecution?) Without a crime, the party did the damage is the City of Detroit. For the most part, Detroit gets its money from the residents of Detroit via taxes.
@@hughmccurdy3348 I would be going for whatever the MI version of official misconduct is. As to why there isn't, I don't know. Maybe weak case, or maybe unwillingness to punish government criminals. They would have a very hard time convincing me this many occurrences was accidental, which leaves intentional.
@@jreese46 prosecutors specifically identify the crime by code and title. Even without that, the standard in the US is innocent until proven guilty. It is not on the defendant to prove innocence. I can think of a scenario where the assessment could be incorrectly high. Example in 2007 house is appraised at $100K and legally assessed at $50K. Then the real estate market crashes and house now worth $70K. The assessment is too high. While I think someone should have been aware of the problem, I've dealt some with people in these sorts of jobs and many simply aren't that smart.
I feel that if the City could vehemently overtax homeowners, causing them to lose their homes, they can just as vehemently despite the impossibility, make those homeowners whole as best as possible! Otherwise, imagine the precedent that sets in the minds of people who want to buy a home in Detroit, and broadly (given different laws in different places) across the country! Cities and counties still need that tax base, and if there is no confidence in a City/county being fair and accountable in its duties, that kills the City/county's integrity/legitimacy to exist!
Every time a home is taken from citizens they lose more than just a home. The value of the house is just a portion of what's taken and to do NOTHING when those homes are taken wrongfully is a real shame and something really needs to be done.
Overpaid taxes, foreclosure for those over-assessed taxes, credit issues, employment issues, damage to their reputation, plus the emotional and possibly physical harm suffered by these homeowners is just madness. Someone(s) in the Detroit city government need to be held accountable and *criminally* liable for fraud and theft, possibly under the RICO Act.
I set aside $400 dollars every month to pay the taxes then I go into the courthouse and pay by check so I have the printed receipt and then when it clears I print out the canceled check to help insure against this happening. When it comes to cities like Detroit, Chicago and New York there is so much corruption at the top level I'm surprised that the federal government hasn't done anything
The objective of the federal government is the same as the states, make everything owned by government, nothing owned by people. Take our property, take our money, take our guns so we can't resist.
For those of u confused on how they were over taxing. You can buy a mansion in Detroit for dirt cheap. However say u bought a mansion for 50k they would tax u on the perceived worth. So while u paid and your neighbors paid 50k the city taxes u on 500k because that’s what the house anywhere else would be worth. It is illegal which is why they lost the lawsuit
Hey Steve, great show/channel. I grew up in Flint, joined the military and got the hell outta there. Recently moved back to Michigan, over in SW Mi. When we moved back we had sold some apartments out of state and bought some in Holland on a 1031 exchange. Since it was an exchange it had to be in the same name as the previous business name, which was already registered in MI so we owned them in that name and had a "doing business as" under another name. A few years ago we were contacted by the Wayne County treasurer that our property was in default and they were foreclosing. Problem is we didn't have property in Wayne. The property was owned in the same name as our parent LLC. I was nice and looked up the proper address, sent the info to the treasurer and informed them they had sent the seizure notice to the wrong people. Got a thank you back and never thought more about it. A year or two later we got the same notice again for different properties, again in WC. I didn't bother doing their job for them again but did inform them they had again sent the notice to the wrong company. Then a year or so later it happened a third time. My response this third time wasn't so polite as I told them they were incompetent and they'd better pull their heads out of their rectums, and if I ever received another notice I'd sit on it they could take it to court, and when the real owners fight it they can explain to the judge why they were too lazy or incompetent to actually find the contact of the proper owners. I've not received another...
How else do you repay someone for over taxing them? You took extra MONEY from them, the damages are in MONEY. The repayment should also be in MONEY. I have a feeling if fought in the courts this sort of laws would be thrown out for many reasons.
Finding and paying $600,000,000 is a whole lot easier than dealing with each individual lawsuit and having to dish out BILLIONS for the hardship they caused.
This is disgusting. If they'd done this to 3 people, then maybe it was a mistake. But doing it to 100,000 people?! No, this was no mistake. It's a crime against humanity and these public officials should be jailed
The lack of empathy for its own citizens is what baffles the most. There's no attitude of "we're in this together", only "us vs them". I would guess that it is a "holier than thou" ideology, because of the position of power. 🤔😕
I'm curious can the 100k home owners sue the officials who were in charge directly in a class action suit to take their assets and potential earnings if they are still alive?
@@haneytr3s roads are paid for from fuel taxes. Direct, apportioned taxes with clear and open records where someone can track exactly where their tax dollar goes would be ideal.
@@haneytr3s Most of those funds don't go to roads anyway. Because of poor management and the legislature moving funds away. In my state is mostly toll ways now and more are getting build. Because the budget keeps getting removed. Also is not gas tax supposed to go to pay for the roads? And property tax to pay for schools? Schools been poorly managed is another big issue too.
So, if any of us did a crime and spent the money, we'd be on the hook for it for the rest of our lives. If the city does it, oh well, too bad. Nah, they should just start garnishing the wages of those responsible for the rest of their lives, as well as the city.
They collected that money for taxes either through payments from the residents or sale of the foreclosed homes. What happened to that money? Did the city just fritter it away through mismanagement? Can any of these homes be returned to their rightful owners? Or were they sold at auction and now occupied by new owners? Seems to me that like it or not, we have the makings of a class action lawsuit against Detroit. Also seems that a few politicians and bureaucrats need to be held accountable for their misconduct.
How many had a $150k house foreclosed on a $15k tax bill? $15k isn't going to fix that. For the ones that did overpay, credit for the overpayments on future payments is the least the city can do. If a homeowner paid double what they should have for six years, they shouldn't have to pay for six years. Detroit certainly showed it has no issue with acting on underpayments or late payments. If all else fails, go after the personal funds from those who illegally assessed the taxes.
Who did these people who were scammed vote for? Let me guess the elected officials were more concerned with government employees paychecks than any civilian taxpayer.
Oops. We took your home and money; but we can’t give it back because that would be illegal! I’m gonna guess all these people were poor because that’s who they do this stuff to …
When they can’t do it because they don’t have the money, how can the bureaucrats who caused it be held accountable? There needs to be some kind of justice. The state should step in and give each person something of value like a parcel of land or something that the state owns as compensation. I’m sure lots of people ended up homeless and destitute had suffered from this. Who knows how many other areas have done this? Or who are not collecting the right amount of taxes, one way or another?
Imagine paying off your mortgage but still having to pay rent ...eh, property taxes ... to the government for the privilege of living in your home. Property taxes are wrong.
Are you planning on defending your home with your own gun? Or are you going to rely on police to defend your home from trespassers? You can’t have it both ways to get the protection for free.
@@evannibbe9375 I live in a rural area of America. Average police response time is something like 25 minutes. So, yes, my security is largely up to me and I accept (and embrace) that. Defending ones home and property with firearms isn't a strange thing in America. It's actually normal most places outside the large cities.
Very first thing to compensate the victims of Detroit city officials crimes is show WHO had these properties criminally evaluated at 85% instead of 50%. Who are the ones that had this done? And then charged, convicted and imprisoned. These are the rackets our Govt officials pull to make up for all of the lost revenue caused by them giving these tax breaks to their Corporate cronies. This is the result of their "Public Private Partnerships." Toting these Corporate parasites as "Job Creators." Even though most pay poverty level wages. The tax breaks they give to Corporate and individual wealthy cronies, like Mike Illitch, (Little Ceasars/ Red Wing hockey team) DeVos family, Wal-Mart, Home Depot etc is what creates this problem. That entire piece of property in Detroit of the Little Ceasars Stadium, he only has to pay one dollar a year for 99 years in property taxes? For minimum wage jobs where they have to get on food assistance and medicaid? Just like Wal-Mart employees. Then they raise all of our property taxes to make up for the wealthy and Corporate share. And They put the biggest burden of taxes on homeowners which is absolutely unfair. And if and when you can't pay these huge property taxes they get to take your home? Which proves we are never really property OWNERS. The Governor can get the 600 million from the Federal Govt. And let the Feds prosecute these organized criminals of Detroit. And garnish every single one of their bank accounts. Our Gov't just gave trillions to the Corporate Cartels over "Virus " DON'T LET THEM CLAIM THEY CAN'T DO THIS. WTF gets to STEAL MILLIONS AND KICK PEOPLE INTO THE STREET, then say Oh well, we don't have it anymore?? Other than our corrupt Govt officials. Then have the goddamn nerve to demonize the homeless, have them brutalized and arrested. Our Gov't has turned into a great big Crime Syndicate. The Mafia has nothing on our Govt officials. ORGANIZED CRIME UNDER THE COLOR OF LAW?? Remember when Gov Snyder got elected and the first thing he did was give 3 billion in tax breaks to his Campaign donors then immediately taxed our PENSIONS and raised our property taxes to make up for it? Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, car registration tax, etc all get increased to make up the share of their Cronies are suppose to be paying. Then they take our homes too? What a racket. And this continues regardless if we put a D or R in charge. They're all owned by the same people and companies. Btw Which Michigan congress passed the law that let them keep the entire sale price of our homes?? Not just the back taxes due. WHO passed that and when?
I was a victim of low flying owls. The other night I was walking out to my workshop to turn off the lights. Walking towards the garage I noticed something sitting on top of the fence. As my eyes adjusted to the light I saw that it was an owl, about 12-14 inches tall. I stopped walking and we had a stare off until my wife let our dogs out. The commotion of three Siberian Huskies startled the owl and he took off. Only he was flying directly at me and not gaining altitude at a rate I was confident would avoid a collision between his talons and my head. I ducked and felt and heard the wind created by his wings as he flew over me. I live in the eastern suburbs of Cincinnati and it's a green space community so there are lots of trees and wildlife, but I've never been that close to an owl in the wild.
Bro, that's no lie. I've always lived in Ohio, mostly out in the country but I moved to Eastern Cincinnati years ago. Never had any low flying owl issues, but the deer are insane. Never in my life did I thought this would be an issue in the city.
I live on the outskirts of Vegas. You figure, snakes and scorpions, right? No. We have an owl that lives on our property, see him every evening although he never tried to kill me, foxes, bobcats, coyotes, cougars, golden eagles, hawks, and rabbits galore (probably the reason for all of those^^) Virtually no snakes or scorpions though. (??) Moved here from Colorado about 15 years ago and didn't expect all the critters. Let a pet wander, it's gone, never to be seen again.
@@commandershepard4235 I grew up in rural SE Indiana on 136 acres of hills and trees. I see more wildlife, especially deer, in the suburbs than I ever did in the country. Deer, fox, coyote, owls, hawks and even a bald eagle that hangs out around Coney. I'm in Anderson and the township is going to have to do a controlled hunt soon. Certain times of the year I can't get in or out of my neighborhood without seeing a herd of deer.
I was in Puerto Rico once and it was like 5 am and I was out on the balcony smoking a cigarette before I left for my flight home and I turned my head and right in my face a couple of feet away was an owl and I just fell down to avoid it and watched him slowly silently fly away. it was surreal, I have no idea what made me turn my head when I did but I'm so glad I did.
My parents once had a dream home, at least a dream home they loved. It wasn’t perfect but it was the biggest house they could afford and finally could have a room for all the kids for once. The city kept evaluating the house to three times the actual value. We actually bought it at half the actual value The homeowner actually had it on the market for over 10 years and could not sell it and it’s rated value. And my parents barely scraped enough money together to afford it. About 20 years later when they finally moved out they sold it for even less than what they bought it at. During that time of course every year the city tried taxing it at an insane amount. Each year they would have it appraised and fight the tax amount. Each year they would win. And in the end they were proven correct when they couldn’t even sell it at the amount they bought it at. Cities are very hopeful at property taxes because they want to afford certain things. And that’s really mostly because the state doesn’t help cities that much with their income taxes that they do
Didn't Detroit declare bankruptcy during that same time? Might get them off the hook and that would really suck. Someone needs to go to jail over this theft, and that is what it is, theft pure and simple. Theft through incompetence. Now think of the house flippers who restored some of these houses and now may lose them and their investment if this goes they way it should. Sucks all the way around...and all the folks who did this are out of power and reach...
I mean, if the city illegally converted the homes (I think that's the term but I'm not a 100% certain) then they would still belong to the original owners that they were stolen from correct? It does massively suck for anyone that's pumped money into the homes, but at the same time there should be a price for lacking due diligence.
If Detroit does not have the money then the burden lays with the state. Its that simple these people have a right to either their property back or some sort of fair compensation. It may be difficult but these people may have done nothing wrong and need to be made whole again.
Chump change - Imagine printing your own money to look exactly like real - but have no value aside from people believing it’s real. If caught - you’d go to prison for life. That’s how the Federal Reserve system works - except they’ve legalized counterfeiting for themselves.
The people who have been over taxed in this situation should be free from paying property taxes until such time that the amount they would have payed totals to the amount that was wrongly taken from them. This should also have no time limits, as many are probably living in someone else's home as a result of losing their own.
Has no one floated the idea of taxing or fining the big auto companies, who ultimately caused this situation in the first place? They set up shop, made tons of money, and effectively created a city. Do they really have the right to just pack up and leave with all the money?
Please tell me how the auto manufacturers started the race riots back in the 60's in Detroit, which caused anyone who could to flee the city to the safer suburbs, taking their money with them? Those violent riots were the beginning of Detroit's demise. Detroit was called "The Murder City" and not "The Motor City" in those days for a very good reason. Automakers soon did the same as homeowners did as those plants became obsolete, they left for greener pastures. You blame them for leaving and not the people living in Detroit for causing Detroit becoming a sh*thole. Laughable.
CLASS ACTION, WITH NO OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT ALLOWED. Driving out the poor? Charge them interest and jail some people, and make the corrupt officials poor. Or leave and let the place fall in on itself.
I had a house in Detroit that was over taxed. During the housing crash the taxes were more than the value of house. I remember Detroit officials saying that people should pay their fair share of taxes. It's like thieves saying you should have better stuff for them to steal.
That’s exactly what was happening.
There's one really funny thing I find about this. The appraisals and the tax rates are all based on relative value, which means if enough places are over that valued then if you reduced everybody to the correct value then everybody would still pay the same amount
@@neilkurzman4907 Because it is theft.
@@robertalatalo5904 That's one of the things most people don't understand about property taxes. The assessment of the property merely determines your share of the tax burden. It's not like income tax where you pay a certain percentage of your income.
i know 3 people whos homes burned during that period, weird how heaters fail and catch homes on fire... after over taxation becomes an issue
I steal $100? I go to jail.
The government steals $600,000,000? Nobody spends a single day behind bars or gets punished in any way.
And it doesn't even get used
That’s qualified immunity for you.
That's what the people want. If the people didn't want that city hall would be burning right now.
@@strawberrylotlizard how do you think all those life long "public servants" become millionaires.
Stealing $100 in California doesn’t get the thief a jail cell these days …
And if the crazy thought process that created that situation in California moves to your area …
Until officials are held accountable and face prison time these corrupt officials will continue to ignore the law.
Who's going to hold them accountable? Not themselves.
@@jsmdnq it's supposed to be the people but they don't care. That's what happens when people only vote one way that doesn't help them.
They don't fear jail. They need to fear the gallows.
If I make a mistake on my taxes I get a costly penalty. If an organization that taxes me makes a mistake on my taxes, I get a more costly penalty than if I made the mistake.
I can't help but to wonder if the City of Detroit did that by _"mistake."_
Remember Athens, TN.
"Yes, we admit we massively overcharged your taxes...no, we won't pay you back."
How is that not outright thievery?
I foresee a lawsuit in their future and maybe another Bankruptcy.
@@thatsreality5184 Can you point us to the laws that say MI may not correct their accounting errors? Thanks.
@@thatsreality5184 I don't see any law to that effect holding up under scrutiny. You can't absolve your legal responsibility when unjustly enriching yourself.
Since the money has been paid to the city it should be used for future taxes owed and accrue interest until the accounts balance.
Govt/City officials "It's not illegal when we do it".
The city will come up with $600 million to pay the lawyers to tell the court they can not raise $600 million
They'll get it from Joe Biden's puppeteers as a "green new deal" grant.
No doubt! Our politicians and bureaucrats have shown they will waste millions to save themselves a little time or money of their own while most people on the street will pull out a credit card to solve problems if the net benefits look good. Happens EVERY DAY!
Worse, that's just the amount that was stolen, not including damages. Typical Democrat run sh*thole.
imagine how frustrated you would be when you find out Detroit had $600 million more than it should have had, but your city services still aren't any better...
Happens everywhere to different extents. Bloomfield Township overcharged the residence for water to the tune of $12-16 million dollars. After years of litigation, they were found "guilty" and ordered to pay back the money to the citizens (who will be the ones paying for the judgement) and they appealed that ruling. Whole time they are using outside lawyers which if not yet at or over $1 million, has to be getting close.
While your walking the streets looking for shelter but nothing has been cleaned since the sold your home and pocketed ALL of the equity and profit in your home...so Detroit got $600m in taxes PLUS the profit and equity you had in your home.
I was thinking that too. 600,000,000 surplus but still went bankrupt or failed to improve anything. I think Detroit has had numerous outstanding debts accumulating over the years until they couldn't pay even if they wanted to, and this latest incident is just another example.
Here's the thing, Detroit has large areas of abandoned real estate, owned by the banks but the banks aren't interested in selling for less than what they think they can get. Well if no one is buying them you're pricing is wrong and that keeps new money out of the market while you keep paying taxes on something you're not making money on.
Detroit is perfect for a housing and industry revolution that would turn things around within ten years, but I don't know what is keeping them from doing that.
@@sittingindetroit9204 yeah but Detroit is what needs help
I have a well in S. California on my homestead that pumps out crystal clear water. It can get to 120 in the summer here, 5% humidity. I can not understand why these people don't have safe drinking water. Are they being culled?
It's funny that when there is an error in taxation in favor of the city/state/fed they expect me to pay IMMEDIATELY but when they don't have the money they get the opportunity to basically invent their own payment plan
Correction: “… their own NON-payment plan.”
There, I fixed it ;)
wouldn’t it be nice if all the people and companies of Michigan just stop paying their taxies in solidarity of the shameful corruption, though it seems that the state has allowed this to exists unpunished - could you imagine how fast action would happen - a state constitutional amendment would shut down this practice of deferment 🤔....
The thing is, no matter how they compensate the people, they have to get the money from somewhere, so that just means more taxes to pay for that compensation. That means they pay themselves back. None, if Detroit owns unused property, they might be able to sell that to give some money back, but that probably won’t be 600 million dollars
Imagine that, the city being unable to pay for something they legally should, but they get away with it, but people that couldn't pay the city for something they shouldn't have needed to pay... lost their homes.
The magic of freedom 🤣
Its called a DOUBLE STANDARD. Poetic justice would be if the 100,000 people who had their homes taken from them get together and as a group demolish the homes of the politicians responsible.
All I can think of is all the emotional harm that ‘robbery’ of homes and equity, caused those unfortunate people. They are victims of a tax crime, but I doubt that they will ever see any real compensation.
EDIT: That is such a huge amount of extra money-- what was that money used for??
Why not foreclose on city hall and auction it off to pay the debt?
Almost can guarantee that if a person owed that much, the city would do everything in its power to make sure they get their money
The city would spend a million dollars trying to collect a $100 debt from a private citizen.
Sure, but that's also a very different situation.
In your scenario, that's 1 person who owes $1,000 to 600,000 people (the population of the City of Detroit).
Right now the scenario is that 600,00 people each owe 1,000 dollars to 100,000 people.
@@MrMartinSchou Oh, so the debt is 60 trillion dollars? Either you're insane or seriously need to redo your math.
@@Mavendow his math would say 600 million, since 600k by 1000 is 600m. If it was 1000k per person it would still be only 600 billion. I've accidentally carried too many zeros before too, so it's understandable.
Pretty sure they did by stealing their houses and taking their money.
Years ago I bought a home in Detroit proper through county tax auction for $500 and was my primary residence. The house was one of the few livable homes in the auctions. Just a few months later the city tried to foreclose it for the taxes that where wiped out in the auction. All thanks to Kwamie Kirkpatricks antics
Bank of America forecloses on homes they don’t even hold a mortgage for!
Remember when that couple foreclosed on Bank of America after Bank of America wrongfully tried to repossess their house?
That happened in the UK at least once. A guy who'd spent six months in India, continuing to pay his mortgage all that time, and came back and found that The Woolwich building society had sold his house at auction to someone else. But his mortgage wasn't even with The Woolwich, it was with another building society, so The Woolwich didn't even have the title deeds. Once the story made national headlines it suddenly went quiet very quickly, which suggests the Woolwich paid a lot of money to make the story go away.
@@ianbattles7290 oh yeah! Lol
that's f....up
@@herseem They did a lot of SEO work too. You can't track the story on search engines, they're all washed out.
I see the over taxing the same as theft. If they can't return the money and properties, the people involved need to see some jail time like any other thief.
even if they can pay the money....someone needs to go to jail.
Now you are starting to sound a bit libertarian. Welcome to the club!
It's called Taxation Without Representation. Ever hear that saying before.....
See, the problem there is that you are treating this like it's simply theft. This wasn't theft. If the state wants something, they send armed thugs to grab you, kidnap you, hold you against your will, and then take your shit. A "mistake" like this must be met with the same level of force people would be allowed to use on a smaller Mafia. Termination of the offending party's life functions, until cessation of aggression towards the defending party.
Not over taxing, taxing itself is theft. And the fraud is even worse than that.
If the mayor doesn't want to pay with money, he can pay in blood and tears.
I prefer tyrants to pay in blood and tears.
Tree of liberty is real thirsty
200 years ago, people would already be in the gallows for this type of graft and corruption.
And which mayor would this be? the one who presided over the city until he was convicted on federal charges with a 28 year sentence, later to be set free by Trump on his last days in the White House. Or the current mayor who is stuck in this deep hole with no available assets to repair the damage that was done before he took office?
@@robertkohler4173 He can start by making things right by calling in the DOJ, and putting any family affected by this travesty/farce back in a home that the city owns of similar quality or better. It will work out and is not complicated.
I would imagine this will turn out the same way as state and city pension funds were not paid in to as they contracted. A judge will make the problem go a way for the city and those wronged will be left holding the bag.
I see, cities are only allowed to give tax credits to giant corporations but not to the average person that the city needs to make whole.
You know what I'd like to know?
How many of those "lost properties" were at or near the new Gordie Howe Bridge development? It'd be interesting to find out.
this was not an accident or mistake. it was done on purpose by someone to help balance a budget. who needs to be investigated tried and jailed forever
This was my first assessment. My guess is it was to balance the budget but what services were attained? I honestly think that money filtered into some undeserving pockets.
@@johnwidell8092 I suspect there is more to your story. Did you just buy the house? Was it new or existing construction? What % do you get by dividing assessment by sale price? (Or by estimated value if not just purchased?)
Balance a budget? You mean steal.
I know what they can do instead of pay back the $600m.
Throw everyone responsible for this in prison.
They can't throw the entire city govt in jail, they're all dems
Who's going to pay to support these greedheads while they languish in jail ? The same people they screwed that's who
When I was there in 2014 working on an automation project, I had read in the newspaper that there were 80,000 abondended properties. Go figure?
I remember hearing a story from VinWiki about a police precinct in the Detroit area illegally confiscated a super car and claiming the owner donated the car to the precinct for free. And they paraded the car on live TV saying that the car was a police car now.
@@sjb3460 ummm...i didn't read any article or story. i simply said that i HEARD a story on vinwiki. the last part of the story was that the teller was in the process of suing the precinct and the individual. so there's nothing for me to "re read."
@@kunzilla No need to get defensive.
If I were an affected person/family, I'd tell them "fine, you won't make me whole with cash or tax breaks, so I want free electric and water for the next 20 years" and if they won't do it, start a class action lawsuit.
Taking advantage of the people who can't afford to fight back
That's the whole governmental system, from cps, law enforcement to judges and nearly all government entities. We pay government only to be harassed extorted and even put in a cage.
Entry level epiphany into adulthood.
Well, lawyers will jump on it. If you are first in, you stand a chance. After all you could always take possession of their assets, sell them off at an auction.
BINGO!
when the govt takes "you will own nothing, and you will be subservient to us" to heart
I say pay back the money, and if Detroit finally dies then it dies. After over 60 years of incredible mismanagement, this is what happens.
Just break it up into smaller cities, it is a total loss for sure. Enough already. Maybe them elections can be more fair and audited - they had to stop recount in 2016 because none of the numbers matched. We have no way to know who actually won any vote where Detroit was involved.
100,000 foreclosures should have been a tip-off to miscalculations. The stress and heartache these homeowners have gone through is criminal.
I wouldn't accept any compensation that didn't allow me to move away from Detroit and still collect it.
Steve, I have to disagree with the premise that they can't do it. The City of Detroit has many luxury items that could be sold to cover this financial situation. What is the value of Manoogian Mansion and its contents? What about the luxury furnishings of the Detroit executive offices? And don't forget the Detroit Institute of Arts, while it is nice to have these things if you can afford them Detroit cannot. I would hope the courts get involved and a judge makes that same determination. I would also hope the Attorney General investigates to determine if this overvaluation was intentional and if it was holds those responsible accountable.
The DIA was already sold to private interests years ago as part of the bankruptcy proceedings in 2014.
@@robertkohler4173 thanks Robert I guess I missed that report
Had to do some research, in 2014 ownership of DIA was transferred to Detroit Institute of Arts Inc. Listed as a non-profit. However, no sale price was listed so I suspect a strong case could be made that it is still the possession of the City of Detroit. Public information is akin to transferring you house to your mother so the ex can't get her fair share.
You def have to watch your assessment every year! 5 years ago one of the town assessors assessed my house 30K more than all the other same sized and very similar houses in my neighborhood. I proved the dope didn't even get out of his car or bother to change old information, for instance he wrote (or left it on the property card) that my roof was old and needed replacement. When he did the assessment the roof was only 2 years old, as the prior owner had replaced it. He wrote other things that were not true, like "everything new" which contradicted the old roof comment etc. Then they claimed it was assessed higher than the other homes because I paid what I paid for the house which I had bought about. year or two prior. I printed up the assessments for similar houses in the neighborhood, three of which were bought for a similar price a year prior to my purchase, yet they were assessed at 30K less than mine, some were even slightly larger or had more improvements. Anyway I got the head assessor to come out and he wasn't expecting the ammunition I had ready (words and evidence I mean, not actual), he fumbled on his words, then he admitted that they fired that assessor because he was so bad at his job. Needless to say I won, and they reassessed my house to match that of the other similar homes in the neighborhood, 30K less. I filed a tax abatement and got the money I was owed for the difference in taxes I had already shelled out, and it was WELL WORTH THE TIME! Don't let some aloof, lazy assessor over assess your house, if they do fight it! Make sure you gather proof before doing battle though, get your property card, and print up the assessments from similar homes in your area!
In Australia property taxes are based off the value of the property. Just the land, not anything attached to the land like a house. Makes it far easier to get an average mostly accurate assessment, without paying a mob of assessors.
The $600 Million in wrongfully collected taxes is chicken feed compared to the actual damage done.
Median home price in Detroit in 2016 was 165,000. Multiply by 100,000 homes lost is
$16.5 Billion.
Where did this value go?
Kicked people from their homes to sell them all to people that could afford the tax? Air bnb barons?
I had an acquaintance who, straight out of college, started flipping houses in Detroit. He moved to Detroit and made a concerted effort to make his neighborhood a better place. He would buy foreclosed homes and let the people stay in them if they just paid utilities to keep the neighborhoods intact. He would organize neighborhood cleanups and crime watches. It took about 5 years of battling the city for getting basic things done, and being picketed by activists calling him a slumlord before he moved across state. Detroit, to this day, has major problems.
Sounds like San Francisco
Your beating your head against a wall trying to do good in these huge cities. Go to some of the small suburbs and they will welcome you.
@@mph5896 Small towns that are majority-jogger are all losing battles.
There was some guy a few years ago, trying to help resolve the homeless problem in Los Angeles, he built small shed homes for them to stay, , etc everything..city came in shut him down, fined him, etc destroyed the homes, say they were not safe, permitted, blah blah...he had to shut it down. The large cities talk the big talk...but never do what they say they will do...and people keep voting them in. smh.
@@charliegone1652 it was because LA had just put out millions of dollars to help solve homelessness. The guy who did the tiny homes spent $100,000 of his own money for 10 tiny homes. LA seized and destroyed at least 3 of the homes. Apparently he made the city of LA look bad. There are a couple of y..tube videos on it.
It would be interesting to know how many of the foreclosed homes were demolished or are on the list to be demolished.
This was probably done on purpose. Some city lawyer looked at the law and decided that it would be easy to over assess a houses value, and when the people couldn't pay they could just take the house, sell it, and keep all the money. There's no way this was accidental, they knew what they were doing.
Property taxes are the price we pay to never own our homes for services we never wanted.
This is why I laugh at the concept of "home ownership"
Legalized Extortion ;but when the mob extorts they get prosecuted and incarcerated....Government thugs? Never!
State rent
Russian bot I agree.
They stole your money. They partied it away so they can't give it back. No one believes it was "an honest mistake". Only politically connected people with an entire police force to protect them from their victims could ever hope to get away with this. At least they got kickbacks from all the politically connected companies and individuals they gave your money to.
Like any good cop would say 'follow the money.'
Totally agree with the point of holding public officials personally accountable if it's proven they act with purpose. If an official can potentially lose their home or pension/retirement, I would submit they would think twice about acting illegally in office
Detroit government screwed up? We're all surprised.
The city expected the people who were wrongly overcharged to have the money, so the city should have to compensate these people properly.
The question, to me, is has Detroit reached or perhaps gone beyond that tipping where this city can't realistically be salvaged, back in the 1970s we considered buying a home in Detroit, so glad we changed our minds, seems this city is beyond hope???!!!!!
not even Robocop can save them
It has been beyond hope since the 80’s, when Robocop was made. But it’s really been longer than that, ever since the party of Roosevelt took control of the city robbing citizens blind and never looked back.
Detroit is a total loss. The only thing to do with it now is bulldoze it flat and grow weeds on it.
@@NSResponder
Just walk away from it, the weeds are already there and a bunch of it has been bulldozed.
Break it up into smaller cities and do away with Detroit proper. Enough of the problems no one will fix at the cost of the residents.
I met a title insurance guy at a backyard BBQ just after the 2008 housing crash. I asked him how the title insurance industry handled title insurance costs when all these WW II era houses had deteriorated so much as to have little or no fair market value. He surprised me by saying his company had a standard of requiring any request for a title insurance commitment to be part of a bundle of ten homes. Otherwise, it wasn't economical to do the title check work and produce commitments.
Property taxes are worse than even described by you. The process for calculating the "assessed value", by law, cannot include anything defined as a distress sale, such as the price realized at a mortgage or tax foreclusure auction. As a result, the assessed value does not reflect the fair market value. Ten homes on your street may have sold for $100 at that year's tax foreclosure auction, but if one home sold for $10,000, your home will be asessed at $10,000. It's more like "the value a seller might achieve in a really hot real estate market when they can afford to wait for better bids". Lobbyists write the laws. Local government is a very powerful lobby.
Of course, when a financially distressed homeowner gets his Notice of Change in Assessment in January, the likelihood he'll understand how to appeal it is slim, and the odds he'll know how to put together a compelling presentation of the actual fair market value are even slimmer. The odds he can afford a lawyer to handle the appeal are zilch. The City of Detroit knows that, so they have had no incentive to reduce the assessed values to reflect declines in the value of homes in Detroit.
Well ok first cash in the council, past and present pension funds going back to the beginning.
Seize thier personal property, vehicles.
Also the management of the property tax assessment bureau.
Garnish wages.
Sell off city vehicles for the department and city council. Issue bus passes.
Liquidate city owned property.
That is a good start
Given the damages occurred with forcibly uprooting people, and no replacement homes on hand, I’d imagine the total number to be well into the billions range.
So if your not allowed to return money in an over taxed situation, then what the heck is a tax refund?
In my opinion if the "government" takes my home due to an illegal screwup on their part and the CRIME finally comes out then the ONLY restitution that I would accept is that my home is returned to me in at least the same condition that it was when it was STOLEN from me.
If MY HOME has been upgraded by a subsequent owner then that is beside the point...
MY HOME has to be purchased from whoever is now SQUATTING in it (because I STILL OWN IT and they are living in it WITHOUT MY PERMISSION...) and if they now have to pay however many times the money that it was worth when it was STOLEN FROM ME, that is definitely NOT MY PROBLEM... MAKE ME WHOLE AGAIN !!!
If it has deteriorated in the interim then I need it to be demolished and rebuilt. AS IT WAS, whatever the cost to the criminal enterprise that stole it from me originally.
And yes, I use the word "STOLEN" because they took MY PROPERTY from me and they should not have because it was ILLEGAL.
Why should I as a citizen WHO DID NOTHING WRONG be forced to loose because some city or state department were so incompetent as to allow this criminality to take place ???
If there is now a hospital or mall on what EFFECTIVELY IS STILL MY PROPERTY then that is NOT MY PROBLEM...
In that case I MAY accept being given a property IN A LOCATION ACCEPTABLE TO ME and have a home built on that land THAT IS AT LEASE EQUIVALENT TO WHAT I HAD (or in this case, SHOULD legally still have).
Now people will try to tell me that this will be impossible because the city/state/whatever cannot afford to do this to which I answer "Neither could I afford to illegally be stripped of my home/asset" !
Sue everyone involved AND anyone who could have benefited from this crime like spouses, children, business partners etc and the government would have to foot the bill for the rest.
No IFS, ANDS or BUTS, at the end of the day I need to be made whole again - COMPLETELY WHOLE.
And if that means that I get compensated with title to 300 acres of prime woodland that I feel is equivalent to what I lost, then they must sort their crap out and make it happen - PERIOD !!!
And please do not tell me anything about "limited liability" or any of that type of bullshit, there was no "limited liability" in place when my property was STOLEN from me so to bring it up now is just criminals trying to duck the issue - IT IS MOOT...
So, what happened to the 600 million that was collected to start out with, I'm sure that between the ones that found a way to pay and the homes that were foreclosed on and sold the city came out ahead.
It got spent on hookers and blow.
I looked at foreclosed homes in Detroit about 15 years ago, 20K would buy a decent house, but the yearly taxes were 10K, no thanks...
This is a perfect example of why "We the people" need to rid ourselves of these stupid, corrupt taxes.
Exactly
Politicians they knew what was going on they needed the extra taxes.and the individuals it effected who cares.crooked basterds
Civil war
I agree. ALL taxes are WRONG. We don't need roads, or public education, police, firefighters. All the latter do is allow public employee unions to steal from the public they''re supposed to serve, except for the educators, who are worse, because taxpayers are actually paying THEM salaries to brainwash our children and turn them into communists and transgender white-haters.
This nation will only be back on track when ALL taxes are outlawed and ALL the Democratic pedos are in prison along with the RINO Republicans.
Then and only then, we'll finally be able to have good public services again!
How do you propose funding government, even Libertarian-degree of minimal?
I worked for A mortgage company during 2011 housing calamity in Detroit homes were left to rot had negative equity that some banks released the liens due to liability and taxes yet the homeowner still lost the home to foreclosure due to not having the money for taxes or not wanting the property at all .. there was a time where homes were worth $500!
100k people's houses gone because of a mistake by government and to say they don't have or need to compensate people is unacceptable.
This is the type of corruption that should have people rioting in the streets.
You cannot displace a 100000 families without provoking at least 1-2 people into a response.
If they can't have cash as compensation, give them their homes back. I know it wouldn't be that simple but this is ridiculous
if you look at aerial views of Detroit from pre 2000 to current view, you would see whole neighborhoods have gone from normal city living spaces, to trashed out crack house, to what is now wasteland of empty blocks with no buildings at all.
Imagine someone breaking the law, and nobody is talking about putting them in prison.
It's (D)ifferent.
@@jguillot72 Guess some Trump should be in prison for literal treason people are (R)built different.
@@jguillot72 It is SO not a D or R problem. It is a power problem.
People falsely assume that once the mortgage is paid, they own their home. A paid mortgage only satisfies the agreement you entered into with the bank. Most mortgage payments include escrow portion to pay the taxes and insurance that remains. You can never pay off the obligation between you and the city/county/state because they hold a forever lien over the property giving them the 'right' to charge property taxes. Don't pay the taxes and the sheriff will evict you from the property because it will never be yours; ever. The localities can and do force people out of their residence even when a mortgage is held by the bank. It is called eminent domain. Guess who still owes money to the bank when this happens...you do! Lawyers can fight it but only the lawyers get paid and you loose everything.
Well I think a good start would be to foreclose on all the government officials that were involved in this and give the proceeds to those wronged. Yes its only a drop in the bucket but if the consequences actually start coming home to roost for government officials doing a poor job or abuseing their power then maybe future ones will think twice about their actions.
I am coming to believe that impoverishment should be a penalty for this type of felonious malfeasance by governmental managers and employees, elected officials, business owners that defraud customers, corporate management, and board of directors who allow corporate managers to commit crimes. If one knew that one could lose EVERYTHING you ever worked for if you commit a crime at your job, you would think twice before losing your nice home, fancy cars, vacation homes, boats, pensions, investments, etc, and then ending up on public welfare that is paid from the sale of your former assets.
Don't forget, PRISON.
You go to Federal Court, get a judgment, and place a lien on city property.... and SELL IT. You have an admission, of constitutional rights violation, see title 42 Sec 1983
uh man, this is Detroit...sell what to whom?
to China, of course.
Years ago that happened in New Orleans. The injured party wound up seizing the entire city hall building.
@@JamesAllmond there was an instance where a lien was placed on the Court house... lot of buildings, cars, property...
They need to be 100% reimbursed, and they need to see the corrupt officials rotting in prison. This was not accidental.
As Steve pointed out, Detroit doesn't have the cash. Where could they get it?
@@hughmccurdy3348 That's their problem, and not the problem of their victims. They should have thought of that before they committed the crime. Start with the seizure and sale of the homes, vehicles, and high value property (and you know there is some) of the mayor and city council members involved in the crime. After that, time payments, from those involved to their victims.
What should not happen is yet more taxation, or laying off the employees who weren't involved.
I get what you're saying but "meh, ain't got it" should never be accepted.
@@jreese46, What was the crime? I'm not saying what they did shouldn't be a crime. I'm questioning that it is a crime. (If it is a crime, why isn't there a prosecution?)
Without a crime, the party did the damage is the City of Detroit. For the most part, Detroit gets its money from the residents of Detroit via taxes.
@@hughmccurdy3348 I would be going for whatever the MI version of official misconduct is. As to why there isn't, I don't know. Maybe weak case, or maybe unwillingness to punish government criminals. They would have a very hard time convincing me this many occurrences was accidental, which leaves intentional.
@@jreese46 prosecutors specifically identify the crime by code and title.
Even without that, the standard in the US is innocent until proven guilty. It is not on the defendant to prove innocence.
I can think of a scenario where the assessment could be incorrectly high. Example in 2007 house is appraised at $100K and legally assessed at $50K. Then the real estate market crashes and house now worth $70K. The assessment is too high. While I think someone should have been aware of the problem, I've dealt some with people in these sorts of jobs and many simply aren't that smart.
Sure way to kill home prices. Nobody wants to buy a house in a city where the government might over tax it or just take it away for no good reason.
I feel that if the City could vehemently overtax homeowners, causing them to lose their homes, they can just as vehemently despite the impossibility, make those homeowners whole as best as possible! Otherwise, imagine the precedent that sets in the minds of people who want to buy a home in Detroit, and broadly (given different laws in different places) across the country! Cities and counties still need that tax base, and if there is no confidence in a City/county being fair and accountable in its duties, that kills the City/county's integrity/legitimacy to exist!
Every time a home is taken from citizens they lose more than just a home. The value of the house is just a portion of what's taken and to do NOTHING when those homes are taken wrongfully is a real shame and something really needs to be done.
$600 million + interest + aggravation & suffering, I would say I see a major lawsuit coming.
I am sure the city has more than that in assets it could liquidate to make the payment.
Overpaid taxes, foreclosure for those over-assessed taxes, credit issues, employment issues, damage to their reputation, plus the emotional and possibly physical harm suffered by these homeowners is just madness. Someone(s) in the Detroit city government need to be held accountable and *criminally* liable for fraud and theft, possibly under the RICO Act.
We know we've charged you *too much money* but we can't pay you money in return, because that is illegal, you see.
*We know we have illegally charged you too much money, but we can’t pay it back because it is illegal. 😂
Even if state laws don't allow tax credit or cash refund, the constitution says it's illegal to over assess homes.
The law doesn't mean much if the people in charge of enforcing it aren't obeying it...
@@ianbattles7290 exactly my point
I set aside $400 dollars every month to pay the taxes then I go into the courthouse and pay by check so I have the printed receipt and then when it clears I print out the canceled check to help insure against this happening. When it comes to cities like Detroit, Chicago and New York there is so much corruption at the top level I'm surprised that the federal government hasn't done anything
Why would the federal government stop something that makes them so much money?
The Federal government is just as corrupt, if not more so.
They all Criminals.
It’s the Federal gov. behind All the CORRUPTION.
The objective of the federal government is the same as the states, make everything owned by government, nothing owned by people.
Take our property, take our money, take our guns so we can't resist.
Since the City kept all the equity from the sale of each house they owe way more than six100 million ?
For those of u confused on how they were over taxing. You can buy a mansion in Detroit for dirt cheap. However say u bought a mansion for 50k they would tax u on the perceived worth. So while u paid and your neighbors paid 50k the city taxes u on 500k because that’s what the house anywhere else would be worth. It is illegal which is why they lost the lawsuit
Hey Steve, great show/channel. I grew up in Flint, joined the military and got the hell outta there. Recently moved back to Michigan, over in SW Mi. When we moved back we had sold some apartments out of state and bought some in Holland on a 1031 exchange. Since it was an exchange it had to be in the same name as the previous business name, which was already registered in MI so we owned them in that name and had a "doing business as" under another name. A few years ago we were contacted by the Wayne County treasurer that our property was in default and they were foreclosing. Problem is we didn't have property in Wayne. The property was owned in the same name as our parent LLC. I was nice and looked up the proper address, sent the info to the treasurer and informed them they had sent the seizure notice to the wrong people. Got a thank you back and never thought more about it. A year or two later we got the same notice again for different properties, again in WC. I didn't bother doing their job for them again but did inform them they had again sent the notice to the wrong company. Then a year or so later it happened a third time. My response this third time wasn't so polite as I told them they were incompetent and they'd better pull their heads out of their rectums, and if I ever received another notice I'd sit on it they could take it to court, and when the real owners fight it they can explain to the judge why they were too lazy or incompetent to actually find the contact of the proper owners.
I've not received another...
How else do you repay someone for over taxing them? You took extra MONEY from them, the damages are in MONEY. The repayment should also be in MONEY. I have a feeling if fought in the courts this sort of laws would be thrown out for many reasons.
Finding and paying $600,000,000 is a whole lot easier than dealing with each individual lawsuit and having to dish out BILLIONS for the hardship they caused.
good point.
They should foreclose on the houses and funds of those reasonable like the mayor to get funds. See if they like being homeless
Yes sir
This is disgusting. If they'd done this to 3 people, then maybe it was a mistake. But doing it to 100,000 people?! No, this was no mistake. It's a crime against humanity and these public officials should be jailed
I'd be real interested to find out what the racial dynamic is for who all lost their homes.
The lack of empathy for its own citizens is what baffles the most. There's no attitude of "we're in this together", only "us vs them".
I would guess that it is a "holier than thou" ideology, because of the position of power. 🤔😕
Sounds like they need to buy or build 100,000 homes, and start making payments.
I just think it's astonishing that the government can break the law on such a wide scale and then hide behind the law to avoid accountability.
They should not tax houses by assessing the value of the house. They should tax the amount of land.
Still leaning against the Daytona 71 car
I'm curious can the 100k home owners sue the officials who were in charge directly in a class action suit to take their assets and potential earnings if they are still alive?
Property taxes: taxing you on unrealized gains....
Just one more reason why all taxation is theft.
Not just gains, but a wealth tax.
How do you propose we pay for roads and other shared infrastructure?
@@haneytr3s "infrastructure" like gender studies degrees and universal Pre-K?
@@haneytr3s roads are paid for from fuel taxes.
Direct, apportioned taxes with clear and open records where someone can track exactly where their tax dollar goes would be ideal.
@@haneytr3s Most of those funds don't go to roads anyway. Because of poor management and the legislature moving funds away. In my state is mostly toll ways now and more are getting build. Because the budget keeps getting removed.
Also is not gas tax supposed to go to pay for the roads? And property tax to pay for schools? Schools been poorly managed is another big issue too.
If you took 600,000,000 you have 600,000,000. Maybe just throw every politician, every assessor, and every collector involved in prison then.
So, if any of us did a crime and spent the money, we'd be on the hook for it for the rest of our lives. If the city does it, oh well, too bad.
Nah, they should just start garnishing the wages of those responsible for the rest of their lives, as well as the city.
They collected that money for taxes either through payments from the residents or sale of the foreclosed homes. What happened to that money? Did the city just fritter it away through mismanagement? Can any of these homes be returned to their rightful owners? Or were they sold at auction and now occupied by new owners?
Seems to me that like it or not, we have the makings of a class action lawsuit against Detroit. Also seems that a few politicians and bureaucrats need to be held accountable for their misconduct.
Sure would be a shame if someone showed up to the mayor's house with an armored up bulldozer Heemeyer style.
As usual, the only people that will come out ahead are the lawyers.
Every one else is screwed.
Well, what they can do, get damages, then just keep sending in people to extract the cash, or knock it off their taxes.
How many had a $150k house foreclosed on a $15k tax bill?
$15k isn't going to fix that.
For the ones that did overpay, credit for the overpayments on future payments is the least the city can do.
If a homeowner paid double what they should have for six years, they shouldn't have to pay for six years.
Detroit certainly showed it has no issue with acting on underpayments or late payments.
If all else fails, go after the personal funds from those who illegally assessed the taxes.
Just like a civil asset forfeiture. Give them the money in good faith, and you most likely will never get it back
Who did these people who were scammed vote for? Let me guess the elected officials were more concerned with government employees paychecks than any civilian taxpayer.
Oops. We took your home and money; but we can’t give it back because that would be illegal!
I’m gonna guess all these people were poor because that’s who they do this stuff to …
Once again the news media doesn't bother to ask the obvious question: "Mayor, show us this state law, read it to us."
Ben still soaking up some Awesome, Steve's Left ear
When they can’t do it because they don’t have the money, how can the bureaucrats who caused it be held accountable? There needs to be some kind of justice. The state should step in and give each person something of value like a parcel of land or something that the state owns as compensation. I’m sure lots of people ended up homeless and destitute had suffered from this. Who knows how many other areas have done this? Or who are not collecting the right amount of taxes, one way or another?
Imagine paying off your mortgage but still having to pay rent ...eh, property taxes ... to the government for the privilege of living in your home. Property taxes are wrong.
Are you planning on defending your home with your own gun? Or are you going to rely on police to defend your home from trespassers? You can’t have it both ways to get the protection for free.
@@evannibbe9375 I live in a rural area of America. Average police response time is something like 25 minutes. So, yes, my security is largely up to me and I accept (and embrace) that. Defending ones home and property with firearms isn't a strange thing in America. It's actually normal most places outside the large cities.
Very first thing to compensate the victims of Detroit city officials crimes is show WHO had these properties criminally evaluated at 85% instead of 50%. Who are the ones that had this done? And then charged, convicted and imprisoned.
These are the rackets our Govt officials pull to make up for all of the lost revenue caused by them giving these tax breaks to their Corporate cronies. This is the result of their "Public Private Partnerships." Toting these Corporate parasites as "Job Creators." Even though most pay poverty level wages. The tax breaks they give to Corporate and individual wealthy cronies, like Mike Illitch, (Little Ceasars/ Red Wing hockey team) DeVos family, Wal-Mart, Home Depot etc is what creates this problem. That entire piece of property in Detroit of the Little Ceasars Stadium, he only has to pay one dollar a year for 99 years in property taxes? For minimum wage jobs where they have to get on food assistance and medicaid? Just like Wal-Mart employees. Then they raise all of our property taxes to make up for the wealthy and Corporate share. And They put the biggest burden of taxes on homeowners which is absolutely unfair. And if and when you can't pay these huge property taxes they get to take your home? Which proves we are never really property OWNERS.
The Governor can get the 600 million from the Federal Govt. And let the Feds prosecute these organized criminals of Detroit. And garnish every single one of their bank accounts. Our Gov't just gave trillions to the Corporate Cartels over "Virus " DON'T LET THEM CLAIM THEY CAN'T DO THIS.
WTF gets to STEAL MILLIONS AND KICK PEOPLE INTO THE STREET, then say Oh well, we don't have it anymore?? Other than our corrupt Govt officials. Then have the goddamn nerve to demonize the homeless, have them brutalized and arrested.
Our Gov't has turned into a great big Crime Syndicate. The Mafia has nothing on our Govt officials.
ORGANIZED CRIME UNDER THE COLOR OF LAW??
Remember when Gov Snyder got elected and the first thing he did was give 3 billion in tax breaks to his Campaign donors then immediately taxed our PENSIONS and raised our property taxes to make up for it?
Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, car registration tax, etc all get increased to make up the share of their Cronies are suppose to be paying. Then they take our homes too? What a racket.
And this continues regardless if we put a D or R in charge. They're all owned by the same people and companies.
Btw Which Michigan congress passed the law that let them keep the entire sale price of our homes??
Not just the back taxes due. WHO passed that and when?
I was a victim of low flying owls.
The other night I was walking out to my workshop to turn off the lights. Walking towards the garage I noticed something sitting on top of the fence. As my eyes adjusted to the light I saw that it was an owl, about 12-14 inches tall. I stopped walking and we had a stare off until my wife let our dogs out. The commotion of three Siberian Huskies startled the owl and he took off. Only he was flying directly at me and not gaining altitude at a rate I was confident would avoid a collision between his talons and my head. I ducked and felt and heard the wind created by his wings as he flew over me. I live in the eastern suburbs of Cincinnati and it's a green space community so there are lots of trees and wildlife, but I've never been that close to an owl in the wild.
Bro, that's no lie. I've always lived in Ohio, mostly out in the country but I moved to Eastern Cincinnati years ago. Never had any low flying owl issues, but the deer are insane. Never in my life did I thought this would be an issue in the city.
I live on the outskirts of Vegas. You figure, snakes and scorpions, right?
No. We have an owl that lives on our property, see him every evening although he never tried to kill me, foxes, bobcats, coyotes, cougars, golden eagles, hawks, and rabbits galore (probably the reason for all of those^^)
Virtually no snakes or scorpions though. (??)
Moved here from Colorado about 15 years ago and didn't expect all the critters.
Let a pet wander, it's gone, never to be seen again.
@@commandershepard4235 I grew up in rural SE Indiana on 136 acres of hills and trees. I see more wildlife, especially deer, in the suburbs than I ever did in the country. Deer, fox, coyote, owls, hawks and even a bald eagle that hangs out around Coney. I'm in Anderson and the township is going to have to do a controlled hunt soon. Certain times of the year I can't get in or out of my neighborhood without seeing a herd of deer.
I was in Puerto Rico once and it was like 5 am and I was out on the balcony smoking a cigarette before I left for my flight home and I turned my head and right in my face a couple of feet away was an owl and I just fell down to avoid it and watched him slowly silently fly away. it was surreal, I have no idea what made me turn my head when I did but I'm so glad I did.
@@smiley-ej9ve I don't think I would have been able to just stand still!
My parents once had a dream home, at least a dream home they loved. It wasn’t perfect but it was the biggest house they could afford and finally could have a room for all the kids for once. The city kept evaluating the house to three times the actual value. We actually bought it at half the actual value
The homeowner actually had it on the market for over 10 years and could not sell it and it’s rated value. And my parents barely scraped enough money together to afford it. About 20 years later when they finally moved out they sold it for even less than what they bought it at. During that time of course every year the city tried taxing it at an insane amount. Each year they would have it appraised and fight the tax amount. Each year they would win. And in the end they were proven correct when they couldn’t even sell it at the amount they bought it at. Cities are very hopeful at property taxes because they want to afford certain things. And that’s really mostly because the state doesn’t help cities that much with their income taxes that they do
Didn't Detroit declare bankruptcy during that same time? Might get them off the hook and that would really suck.
Someone needs to go to jail over this theft, and that is what it is, theft pure and simple. Theft through incompetence.
Now think of the house flippers who restored some of these houses and now may lose them and their investment if this goes they way it should.
Sucks all the way around...and all the folks who did this are out of power and reach...
I mean, if the city illegally converted the homes (I think that's the term but I'm not a 100% certain) then they would still belong to the original owners that they were stolen from correct? It does massively suck for anyone that's pumped money into the homes, but at the same time there should be a price for lacking due diligence.
If Detroit does not have the money then the burden lays with the state. Its that simple these people have a right to either their property back or some sort of fair compensation. It may be difficult but these people may have done nothing wrong and need to be made whole again.
Chump change -
Imagine printing your own money to look exactly like real - but have no value aside from people believing it’s real. If caught - you’d go to prison for life.
That’s how the Federal Reserve system works - except they’ve legalized counterfeiting for themselves.
The people who have been over taxed in this situation should be free from paying property taxes until such time that the amount they would have payed totals to the amount that was wrongly taken from them. This should also have no time limits, as many are probably living in someone else's home as a result of losing their own.
Has no one floated the idea of taxing or fining the big auto companies, who ultimately caused this situation in the first place?
They set up shop, made tons of money, and effectively created a city. Do they really have the right to just pack up and leave with all the money?
Please tell me how the auto manufacturers started the race riots back in the 60's in Detroit, which caused anyone who could to flee the city to the safer suburbs, taking their money with them?
Those violent riots were the beginning of Detroit's demise. Detroit was called "The Murder City" and not "The Motor City" in those days for a very good reason.
Automakers soon did the same as homeowners did as those plants became obsolete, they left for greener pastures.
You blame them for leaving and not the people living in Detroit for causing Detroit becoming a sh*thole. Laughable.
CLASS ACTION, WITH NO OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT ALLOWED. Driving out the poor? Charge them interest and jail some people, and make the corrupt officials poor. Or leave and let the place fall in on itself.
let me rephrase it for you BLACK ROCK Forcefully Foreclosed on 100K People
Watch the video before you open your mouth. The city overtaxed the residents and admitted fault.
@@roflchopter11 i did ty for the correction i am at fault i am just angry lately with all this overtaxing lately in every sector
Someone needs to go to prison. Where did the funds go? It sure looks like it did not go to the City of Detroit.