copper is lighter. You can weigh it. And you can measure relative gravity by water displacement method. You can't fake both. 35% Copper + 65% lead will weigh the same as silver, but then the magnet will slide a lot faster.
you are wrong because lead is also diamagnetic just like copper and silver, so the magnet will slide even more similar to silver on a copper-lead mix because lead's magnetic susceptibility is between copper and silver, meaning that more there is lead the more similar it behaves to silver, so I think you are wrong, because you can actually fake both so I wonder is there any real coins left or do all people just have fake coins which they can't tell apart.
However if the silver plating is 50% of the weight, the difference will be diminished. And using tungsten rather than lead can make it very hard to tell.
This is why it's important to use multiple methods to test the silver you purchase online from places like eBay. In addition to the magnet test, you should weigh all silver you purchase on eBay, as well as use a caliper and do the ping test. In some circumstances you might want to try the acid test also.
Great video. I noticed this myself recently. This video confirmed my concern with the magnet test. It's too bad there are so many dishonest sellers of silver. Thanks for the video Salivate!
This is precisely why copper-tungsten 'fake silver' is the worst. Passes specific gravity testing and exhibits strong inductance. The good news is that even with copper-tungsten core, you have at most 90% copper before the specific gravity starts to get too low, so the side-by-side difference you see in this video is slightly greater. But you have to pay close attention and control the setup more than is convenient for rapid testing. However if the silver plating is thick and the core, being 90% copper, comprises only half the weight, it will be very hard to tell with this test and specific gravity testing that what you have is only 50% silver. Not to mention that this test relies on surface effects and is therefore unsuitable for multi-ounce bars.
anything more dimagnetic than silver would cost more than silver. Silver always slides like butter. You get to know the feel at multiple angles. A follow up test to this one is to have a slick surface and see if your silver can pull the magnets at all. It should definitely not. Love those rounds. *If you have a question* about if it's copper vs silver, just do a specific gravity test. Dixie cup of water, digital scales, and calculator needed. So easy, so blasted good. Lead is the only thing that is close (and molybdenum), so copper will always fail this specific gravity test.... it will show ~8 vs silver's 11 measure. I have a vid on it for anyone who has read all that and is interested. Lol...
I have been wanting to do the specific gravity test on my silver, but I can't seem to be able to find the right kind of string, which is both light enough, and also not impossible to tie around the coin. Any suggestions on a good string type?
Just use tweezers.... They work just fine. Fishing line would be good to use if you had to use string. My argument why it's too much hassle is because nothing comes close to matching the density of silver, except for an alloy that would probably be more expensive to make than just make a silver round.
Make sure to only submerge the tweezers the absolute minimum, because you're measuring the density of the small bit of tweezers that is under water. And, with any string, or any substance you're throwing in the water, you're changing the reading.... albeit by a very insignificant amount.
This is precisely why I buy my silver bullion from a trusted bullion dealer. I sleep so much better at night with that extra peace of mind from knowing that I have used some of my hard-earned money on genuine silver bullion. As for the junk silver that I purchase, I believe counterfeiters will most likely not bother faking pre-decimal silver coins because of the very small profit margins.
Tom Samad Yes, that does ease the mind, especially when silver prices are cheaper these days. I agree with you regarding the spending silver. Too much effort to counterfeit those unless it's a rare piece.
Sliding magnets on the coins like this does NOT test diamagnetism! Diamagnetism would actually cause the magnets to repel away from the coin, but is far too weak to observe in a test like this, even with the strongest magnets. Instead you are actually observing the effects of magnetically induced eddy currents in the metal. The eddy currents create a magnetic field that opposes the motion of the magnets. The thicker and more conductive the metal, the more it will slow the magnets.
Diamagnatism occur because there are no magnetic poles in the metal. Could it be that eddy currents occur as a result of diamagnetism due to Faraday's law of induction making the test valid?
Diamagnetism has nothing to do with magnetic poles or Faradays law. It arises from the configuration of fully paired electrons within the atoms. The results of this test will crudely correspond to the conductivity of the metal. You will be able to tell gold from lead or tungsten, but you will not be able to tell 99% silver from 90% silver/10% copper. It's not very sensitive. You'd get better results measuring conductivity with a ohm meter.
@@bkm83442 I have tried the magnet tests on two of my silver bars. One is quick thick and the other is thinner. Interestingly the effects of magnetically induced eddy currents of the thinner bar is stronger on the magnet than the thicker one. The magnet also slides down slower on the thinner one. Does that imply the thinner silver bar is probably more purer a silver bar than the thicker one.
which ever the science of either magnetic laws you side with is personal, this guy put a silver and copper side by side and the results was troubling and some people can and will get burned if they are only relying on a magnet, this video here is an experiment "WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN SILVER"
interesting. I've always tested my coins after purchase with the earth ground magnets. Now I feel I need to go back and weigh each coin I've bought. Good video!!
important point not often talked about..there are weight size iltrrasound acid ..tests..i wonder how brass and bronze goes...and tungstant...i plan to test tungstant with a magnet..like a lathe cutting tip..
Silver has a little better electrical conductivity than copper, but both are commonly used in electronics. Silver tends to be used where RF currents are involved, specially VHF/UHF and above.
Great video Salivate, very cool subject matter. I had conducted a similar test, but it also involved Aluminum, Brass, and other various metals. As it turns out Aluminum and brass are slightly Paramagnetic rather than Diamagnetic, but they reacted the same in the magnet test, only weaker. I later found a chart on line that listed the differences elements that are dia and para magnetic. Thanks for the video
Silver Bear Very cool. Yes, a good experiment to try various different metals. I wanted to do so but didn't have enough with the near the same weight and shape
Silver is the best conductor of electricity. The top five go in this order. Silver, Copper, Gold, Aluminum. Brass is a mix of copper and another metal to make the alloy Brass. The magnet should slide slowest to fastest in that order because of this. Which gives us the fancy words diamagnetic because the magnets move electrons in the metal and then they produce their own magnetic field for a short time. Use copper wire and a way to get the magnetic spinning near it or through it and we have generator or motor. Whoa whoa its magic.
this is precisely why i have not gone with bigger bars in general - i always like to buy rounds with known dimensions... magnet test is not stand alone and i thank you for showing that!!! if you have a round/coin that matches known dimensions, is spot on weight wise, passes the magnet test as shown here, and rings true (you should check out a cool app on android called Bullion Test), you're good to go.... big bars, im not so very sure.. you would have to do a density test i suppose, but still not for me. Thanks for the awesome video!
Put the coins on a steeper angle. I did it with a brass, silver plated fake. The shallow angle was just momentum. When I made them steeper, the silver still went a lot slower and the fake slid off at a very noticeable, faster pace.
As Nikolay mentioned below, copper is much lighter and a specific gravity test is a sure fire way to make sure. A plated copper coin would have dimensions, not consistent with a control silver round. Only buy from reliable sources and use a couple of methods to be sure.
It should be very simple why this works like this. The best conductor of electricity is silver followed by copper. Which is the reason it slid a tiny bit slower on the silver than copper. It slides slow because of electrons in the metal temporarily produce their own magnetic field because they were happy where they were at. If you did this with copper wire or silver wire and then hooked an end up to something like a light and then dropped this through a coil of the silver or copper wire you have just made yourself a generator. Which is how every generator or alternator works on the planet to give you electricity. We don't use silver ever though it is better conductor of electricity than copper because copper is more abundant and way cheaper. Silver is also the best heat conductor too.
If you rapidly pass a block of aluminum over another lighter piece of aluminum it will repel the lower piece. Like a magnet, I am sure heat treating certain alloys could mimic the slide test.
Magnetic test works, one just has to have something to compare it to. It was originally meant to test 100 oz bars. A silver plated 100 oz bar will not slide the same. Big difference. I would not rule out the magnet if you know what you are doing. Thanks for the informational video
***** Thanks SNJ. Yeah, Very true. I think the reaction difference would be much different on a larger and thicker bar. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
Silver Imp Very true. Even in that case one would need to have an authentic one from which to compare or know the specific gravity of a the given example.
It is not about diamagnetism. It's about eddy currents and how well the material conducts electricity. The better conductivity the more magnetic resistance. Silver is short of superconductors the best conducting (both heat and electricity) metal on the periodic table. Copper comes in at a close 2nd place though. A magnet sliding down something creates and electric current in the piece - the better the piece conducts electricity the more resistance (it's basically a shorted dynamo coil - short a dynamo and it's harder to turn compared to no load). The method can also be used to quickly scan for junk silver in a pile of old coins. However be aware that .400 silver coins are barely distinguishable from copper-nickel. At .500 and above there's a significant difference. When you mix two metals - in coins silver and copper - it is not granted that the allows ability to conduct electricity and the average of the mixed metals. Most obvious examples are brass and bronze. The metals in the alloys themselves conduct quite good but when mixed you get a very bad conducting alloy. Yeah those making fake silver is not very smart. Silver plate a (pure) copper coin and it'll be much more difficult to spot. Add to that that specific gravity of copper and silver is close enough that most amateurs wont be able to tell it's not silver with any statistically significance. I had a piece of unmarked (solid not hollow) piece of damaged I suspected was gold. Put in in all sorts of acid and alkalis I had in my household - a non precious piece would tarnish but this was left for days - nothing happened. For the fun of it I tried to measure its specific gravity - sure I shot it to be 14 karat. Since I couldn't sell the piece as jewelry and make money on it I sold it to a dealer to convert it (and more junk gold I had) to bullion gold. It turned out that the unmarked piece was 18 karat - I was happy - more bullion gold for me :D
Very informative Sal! We have to be very careful. I only buy from two places that I trust (so far) and I stay away from scambay. Thanks for sharing this.
5 oz of copper and 5 oz of silver do not weigh the same. That's because silver is weighed in troy oz while copper is ADVP. Thus 5 oz of silver weighs 1.097 times as much as the copper round.
Copper will be a bit faster, but would be hardly recognizable. Silver has a slightly better conductivity, which means the electrons will ‘whip’ around within the metal (in the electron sea model) faster (with less resistance) thus producing higher eddy currents & their incumbent magnetic fields impeding the movement of the magnets…
This is part of the reason why I buy silver dimes. For counterfeiters, there's not much of a chance of profit, even on a large scale (the average dime sells for ~$1.50), there's extreme detail on the face and edges, and not much of a weight difference can be allowed. I'm thinking of buying one of those rare earth magnet slides in order to further check the validity of the coin. Do you know of any cheaper ones that are currently on the market?
NO, it can't be trusted for copper contaminated silver. I got a bad 10 oz bar once. The last time I tried this test. Basically for me as a pourer getting larger bars it is useless.
Silver and Copper has a different specific weight(specific gravity); it is imposible that this two coins supposedly made from copper and silver and with the same size wight the same.
Nice one SalivateMetal! I have just uploaded a video on my channel that is a similar test but for Silver Bars. I did not however talk about copper so good insight! @
Thanks Salivate. Hope you're still responding as Don't own pm yet and very curious. Regarding 1 oz silver rounds, how would a skilled crook do it? Difference of 2.2 grams tween AVDP and Troy but apparently lead is diamagnetic so a little lead added to bring to Troy weight? If you say such an alloy is possible what then? Now the weight and dimensions are the same and this magnet test is too close to call apparently, especially under the pressure of a deal. So one would have to do a laborious ping and specific gravity test on each coin, and apparently you imply here that the SG test is not foolproof either.How to realistically and safely invest in and sell small divisions of silver below bar size is the concern and my central question to you. I.e, seems quite discouraging for person buying a quantity, say 100 or 200 rounds, especially if prices go to $100/oz and fakes become much more profitable and worth doing. First, one could not do a ping and sg test on more then 10 rounds in a coin shop, if that many. Secondly, even if rounds are real, if you returned to the shop in a few years to sell all one hundred rounds or even just 10 rounds would the dealer not turn you away? For the same reasons, paranoia coupled with time constraints? Got excited about this but now wonder how this is viable. Either now or worse when prices way up and consequently buyers more terrified of fraud, how to sell your stash? Junk silver okay you say but would prefer rounds. Yes, read about SMI but that probably not very unbeatable either. Would appreciate everybody's insight here, but of course, especially yours. This video up with the very best and most illuminating.
+SalivateMetal Studied all your videos before writing first time, and from them got the impression top quality fakes quite possible. Before, I thought weighing, measuring, and a diamagnetic magnet test would suffice. I wrote because I closely looked at all your info, which no one else on utube has provided so well. Thanks again. 2---Yes you are an expert, but main concern was that most buyers are or may not be expert and that the specific gravity test would be too time comsuming for buyer to want to process more then couple rounds. Means I have to make long journey just to sell minimum amount. Unless you will concede to moving to my town. 3---Also bit worrisome for me to buy from coin shop, cause doubt I'll be allowed to use the ap to test ping and do a SG test on 20 rounds. 4----Letting this go. Guess it's like I thought. Resign myself to drilling a hole in each round I need to sell if I decide to buy some. Cheers
They best way to save time in testing is to buy from a trusted dealer. If you are purchasing rounds or bars and study the design, it's pretty easy to discern the fakes even though the technology of the counterfeiters is improving, they miss key details or aspects. The other option is to buy slabbed or graded pieces by NGC or PCGS and check their registration numbers. If you do these two things before purchasing, you will probably save yourself a lot of hassle, otherwise the odd ends you can test via these methods. :)
You forgot that lead is actually a better material to fake silver because its magnetic susceptibility (being the measure of how much a material will become magnetized in an applied magnetic field) and density are almost identical to silver. The density of copper isn't that close to silver as lead's is.
@@SalivateMetal *_Density:_* Copper = 8.96 g/cm³ (difference to silver 1,53 g/cm³) Lead = 11.29 g/cm³ (difference to silver 0.8 g/cm³) Silver = 10.49 g/cm³ This means, like Nikolay Pelov already pointed out 2 years ago in the comments, that if you have a mix of copper and lead, so that there is 34.33 % copper and 65.66 % lead, the mixture will have identical density to silver and will also behave the same way in this magnet test, since both copper and lead are also diamagnetic like silver. This means that you can't separate a copper-lead-coin like that from real silver coins with either the magnetic test, nor with the density test.
The Magnet test is a good way to spot FAKES, but use a scale too it helps. I am not a big fan of the Acid test because it can damage the coins and make it tougher to sale or trade if your buyer isn't happy with the discoloration.
I figured that much , I was referring to how a magnet would interact with them since that was the demonstration you showed . My apologies for not being clearer .
t should be very simple why this works like this. The best conductor of electricity is silver followed by copper. Which is the reason it slid a tiny bit slower on the silver than copper. It slides slow because of electrons in the metal temporarily produce their own magnetic field because they were happy where they were at. If you did this with copper wire or silver wire and then hooked an end up to something like a light and then dropped this through a coil of the silver or copper wire you have just made yourself a generator. Which is how every generator or alternator works on the planet to give you electricity. We don't use silver ever though it is better conductor of electricity than copper because copper is more abundant and way cheaper. Silver is also the best heat conductor too.
Thanks for shareing . Well i just hope and trust the dealer i use do all their testing and i try buying new stuff from the mints. Cant wait to buy your new rounds for you iam all excited about them
Silver Bearbunny Thanks so much Silver Bearbunny. They will be available next Monday. Yes, buying from the Mints or a trusted dealer is good. My local dealer tests a lot of the product that comes through.
Love your vids, great info and thank you for taking the time to help us out, also great responses from subscribers, simply great info all the way around Happy Thanksgiving SM
I don't purchase silver to stockpile for wealth; I buy it to melt, alloy to sterling, and create art. If I ever come across something that is not silver you can be sure the dealer (who has an excellent reputation and I have dealt with for many years) will hear about it right away, and will correct it with no hassle. Bottom line: avoid ebay sellers and deal EXCLUSIVELY with someone you know and trust and can get back to.
@@SalivateMetal recently i have test harmonic and maple silver, ping is totally different. searching out whether the ping test is the same from what you stacking .
Great vid- Question- The magnet does not just slide off : it looks as if it is trying to hang on like a cat on the drapes. Am I correct in my assessment?
It makes absolutely no sense to say G&S will hold there value over time while simultaneously declaring the ultimate ruin of the fiat notes which are the measure of said value!
The magnetism test is a good starting point but, as shown in the video, it isn't 100% effective. A better way is to do a specific gravity test which is almost impossible for anyone to fake (its very easy.....Google for instructions). The specific gravity of gold is more than double that of copper and the specific gravity of silver is also slightly higher than copper so any fakes are quickly identified. See links below. www.farm.net/~mason/materials/specific-gravity.html coinsblog.ws/2016/06/detecting-counterfeits-specific-gravity.html
Nothing to do with diamagnetism. Everything to do with electrical conductivity. The moving magnet induces electrical currents in the metal, which generate their own magnetic field, which opposes the motion of the magnet.
Not really. Diamagnetic materials are slightly repelled by a magnet, and it is true that silver is diamagnetic. This effect is very subtle. The sliding coin test is based on Lenz's Law and is basically a measure of electrical conductivity of the coin material.
Good job making a video on this. I have done this test before and came to the conclusion that one way to test the authenticity of a silver coin/round is to (in addition to making sure it's not magnetic) know the diameter and thickness of coin/round being tested. In my experiment I used a copper and silver 1 oz Freedom Girl. the diameter and thickness were virtually IDENTICAL. The only difference was that the copper freedom girl was 2.62 grams LIGHTER. If you don't know the specs. maybe learn how to do the specific gravity test. Thanks again for helping out stackers that may not have known that copper reacts just like silver in the slide test.
copper is lighter. You can weigh it. And you can measure relative gravity by water displacement method. You can't fake both. 35% Copper + 65% lead will weigh the same as silver, but then the magnet will slide a lot faster.
you are wrong because lead is also diamagnetic just like copper and silver, so the magnet will slide even more similar to silver on a copper-lead mix because lead's magnetic susceptibility is between copper and silver, meaning that more there is lead the more similar it behaves to silver, so I think you are wrong, because you can actually fake both so I wonder is there any real coins left or do all people just have fake coins which they can't tell apart.
fantastic observation
@@T12J7 lol no why would you make that up
@@T12J7 this effect is not even diamagnetism, it's paramagnetism
However if the silver plating is 50% of the weight, the difference will be diminished. And using tungsten rather than lead can make it very hard to tell.
This is why it's important to use multiple methods to test the silver you purchase online from places like eBay. In addition to the magnet test, you should weigh all silver you purchase on eBay, as well as use a caliper and do the ping test. In some circumstances you might want to try the acid test also.
Great video. I noticed this myself recently. This video confirmed my concern with the magnet test. It's too bad there are so many dishonest sellers of silver. Thanks for the video Salivate!
Sure thing. I agree and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
This is precisely why copper-tungsten 'fake silver' is the worst. Passes specific gravity testing and exhibits strong inductance. The good news is that even with copper-tungsten core, you have at most 90% copper before the specific gravity starts to get too low, so the side-by-side difference you see in this video is slightly greater. But you have to pay close attention and control the setup more than is convenient for rapid testing. However if the silver plating is thick and the core, being 90% copper, comprises only half the weight, it will be very hard to tell with this test and specific gravity testing that what you have is only 50% silver.
Not to mention that this test relies on surface effects and is therefore unsuitable for multi-ounce bars.
anything more dimagnetic than silver would cost more than silver. Silver always slides like butter. You get to know the feel at multiple angles. A follow up test to this one is to have a slick surface and see if your silver can pull the magnets at all. It should definitely not. Love those rounds. *If you have a question* about if it's copper vs silver, just do a specific gravity test. Dixie cup of water, digital scales, and calculator needed. So easy, so blasted good. Lead is the only thing that is close (and molybdenum), so copper will always fail this specific gravity test.... it will show ~8 vs silver's 11 measure. I have a vid on it for anyone who has read all that and is interested. Lol...
upgrader99 Very cool. Thank you. Yes, Specific gravity test is great non destructive way to test.
+upgradder99 thanks for your link. Good vid demo on sg testing.
I have been wanting to do the specific gravity test on my silver, but I can't seem to be able to find the right kind of string, which is both light enough, and also not impossible to tie around the coin. Any suggestions on a good string type?
Just use tweezers.... They work just fine. Fishing line would be good to use if you had to use string. My argument why it's too much hassle is because nothing comes close to matching the density of silver, except for an alloy that would probably be more expensive to make than just make a silver round.
Make sure to only submerge the tweezers the absolute minimum, because you're measuring the density of the small bit of tweezers that is under water. And, with any string, or any substance you're throwing in the water, you're changing the reading.... albeit by a very insignificant amount.
I would love to teach my cats to be able to detect silver by sense of smell.
Scott Segal That would be quite a feat! :)
There are some coins and rounds with fish pictured on them. This may skew your test. ;)
lol
🙈 send me some too if they detect enough as I have no cats 🙈
weight test is the best usually, ice cube fast melt also and sound test
This is precisely why I buy my silver bullion from a trusted bullion dealer. I sleep so much better at night with that extra peace of mind from knowing that I have used some of my hard-earned money on genuine silver bullion. As for the junk silver that I purchase, I believe counterfeiters will most likely not bother faking pre-decimal silver coins because of the very small profit margins.
Tom Samad Yes, that does ease the mind, especially when silver prices are cheaper these days. I agree with you regarding the spending silver. Too much effort to counterfeit those unless it's a rare piece.
Sliding magnets on the coins like this does NOT test diamagnetism! Diamagnetism would actually cause the magnets to repel away from the coin, but is far too weak to observe in a test like this, even with the strongest magnets. Instead you are actually observing the effects of magnetically induced eddy currents in the metal. The eddy currents create a magnetic field that opposes the motion of the magnets. The thicker and more conductive the metal, the more it will slow the magnets.
Diamagnatism occur because there are no magnetic poles in the metal. Could it be that eddy currents occur as a result of diamagnetism due to Faraday's law of induction making the test valid?
Diamagnetism has nothing to do with magnetic poles or Faradays law. It arises from the configuration of fully paired electrons within the atoms. The results of this test will crudely correspond to the conductivity of the metal. You will be able to tell gold from lead or tungsten, but you will not be able to tell 99% silver from 90% silver/10% copper. It's not very sensitive. You'd get better results measuring conductivity with a ohm meter.
now that seems like a good idea! would that tell you if coin was plated?
@@bkm83442 I have tried the magnet tests on two of my silver bars. One is quick thick and the other is thinner. Interestingly the effects of magnetically induced eddy currents of the thinner bar is stronger on the magnet than the thicker one. The magnet also slides down slower on the thinner one. Does that imply the thinner silver bar is probably more purer a silver bar than the thicker one.
which ever the science of either magnetic laws you side with is personal, this guy put a silver and copper side by side and the results was troubling and some people can and will get burned if they are only relying on a magnet, this video here is an experiment "WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN SILVER"
Nice test, and good information! I for one did not know that about copper. Now I have to further test a couple pieces I have.
I am replying to your comment verbally on a live stream and shouting you out!
The intro was very tasteful.
interesting. I've always tested my coins after purchase with the earth ground magnets. Now I feel I need to go back and weigh each coin I've bought. Good video!!
Thank you!
Same here
Thanks Uncle Sal I'm trying to look at all your older videos awesome info as usual
Thanks so much my friend. You're awesome
Love digging deep into the archive of videos. THESE OLD INTROS CRACK ME UP.
I am responding to your comment verbally on a live stream at this very moment!
I take a tiny digital scale to buy silver never had an issue
A scale is the first and easiest way to validate silver.
important point not often talked about..there are weight size iltrrasound acid ..tests..i wonder how brass and bronze goes...and tungstant...i plan to test tungstant with a magnet..like a lathe cutting tip..
I am replying to your comment verbally on a live stream and shouting you out!
Great video! I didn't know copper was that close to silver. Good to know!
Silver Slacker Thank you. Yeah, I was surprised at how close it was as well. Thanks for watching. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving!
Silver has a little better electrical conductivity than copper, but both are commonly used in electronics. Silver tends to be used where RF currents are involved, specially VHF/UHF and above.
SalivateMetal can you use gold and what did you think the gold stronger than silver and copper?
Where can I get that magnet?
Radio shack
Great video Salivate, very cool subject matter.
I had conducted a similar test, but it also involved Aluminum, Brass, and other various metals. As it turns out Aluminum and brass are slightly Paramagnetic rather than Diamagnetic, but they reacted the same in the magnet test, only weaker. I later found a chart on line that listed the differences elements that are dia and para magnetic.
Thanks for the video
Silver Bear Very cool. Yes, a good experiment to try various different metals. I wanted to do so but didn't have enough with the near the same weight and shape
Silver is the best conductor of electricity. The top five go in this order. Silver, Copper, Gold, Aluminum. Brass is a mix of copper and another metal to make the alloy Brass. The magnet should slide slowest to fastest in that order because of this. Which gives us the fancy words diamagnetic because the magnets move electrons in the metal and then they produce their own magnetic field for a short time. Use copper wire and a way to get the magnetic spinning near it or through it and we have generator or motor. Whoa whoa its magic.
silver below 20 bucks, XRF scanner about 20 grand, peace of mind..... PRICELESS
I am responding to your comment verbally on a live stream at this very moment!
this is precisely why i have not gone with bigger bars in general - i always like to buy rounds with known dimensions... magnet test is not stand alone and i thank you for showing that!!! if you have a round/coin that matches known dimensions, is spot on weight wise, passes the magnet test as shown here, and rings true (you should check out a cool app on android called Bullion Test), you're good to go.... big bars, im not so very sure.. you would have to do a density test i suppose, but still not for me. Thanks for the awesome video!
Nick Guzelian Very cool. I will check out the app! Thanks so much for watching
I wonder what copper ping test sounds like
I think you are measuring electrical conductivity with that test not diamagnetism
I've also noticed this effect on tin. Pewter (which has tin in it) shows this effect clearly.
Mathew Titus Ah, very interesting. I have not tested it on Pewter or Tin.
The man who was born with a silver drool on his mouth. LOL
+Father Thyme lol :)
Put the coins on a steeper angle. I did it with a brass, silver plated fake. The shallow angle was just momentum. When I made them steeper, the silver still went a lot slower and the fake slid off at a very noticeable, faster pace.
As Nikolay mentioned below, copper is much lighter and a specific gravity test is a sure fire way to make sure. A plated copper coin would have dimensions, not consistent with a control silver round. Only buy from reliable sources and use a couple of methods to be sure.
True. I did a specific gravity test video as well.
Interesting. I do test my silver like that. I wasn't aware that copper reacted similarly. Great information there.
Steve AU/AG Thanks so much Steve. Yeah, it's just similar enough that it makes one question when using this method alone.
It should be very simple why this works like this. The best conductor of electricity is silver followed by copper. Which is the reason it slid a tiny bit slower on the silver than copper. It slides slow because of electrons in the metal temporarily produce their own magnetic field because they were happy where they were at. If you did this with copper wire or silver wire and then hooked an end up to something like a light and then dropped this through a coil of the silver or copper wire you have just made yourself a generator. Which is how every generator or alternator works on the planet to give you electricity. We don't use silver ever though it is better conductor of electricity than copper because copper is more abundant and way cheaper. Silver is also the best heat conductor too.
Here for the intro, stayed for the content
I am responding to your comment verbally on a live stream at this very moment!
Beautiful pieces!
If you rapidly pass a block of aluminum over another lighter piece of aluminum it will repel the lower piece. Like a magnet, I am sure heat treating certain alloys could mimic the slide test.
Hoverbot1TV Very interesting. Thank you for the info.
Make yourself a magnetic slide and you will quickly be able to tell the difference between silver, silver plated, copper clad, steel and iron coins.
Check out my videos with the CCT coin slide. Have one.
Magnetic test works, one just has to have something to compare it to. It was originally meant to test 100 oz bars. A silver plated 100 oz bar will not slide the same. Big difference. I would not rule out the magnet if you know what you are doing. Thanks for the informational video
***** Thanks SNJ. Yeah, Very true. I think the reaction difference would be much different on a larger and thicker bar. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
Look, magnet, weight, size all great but nothing beats computing the specific gravity.
Silver Imp Very true. Even in that case one would need to have an authentic one from which to compare or know the specific gravity of a the given example.
I know. There must be silver inside the copper coin! Lol!
SilverGuru lol :)
Very educational video, Salivate. thanks for sharing.
mkmstillstackin Thank you MKM. Great to see you back. :) Hope you are well!
It is not about diamagnetism. It's about eddy currents and how well the material conducts electricity. The better conductivity the more magnetic resistance. Silver is short of superconductors the best conducting (both heat and electricity) metal on the periodic table. Copper comes in at a close 2nd place though. A magnet sliding down something creates and electric current in the piece - the better the piece conducts electricity the more resistance (it's basically a shorted dynamo coil - short a dynamo and it's harder to turn compared to no load). The method can also be used to quickly scan for junk silver in a pile of old coins. However be aware that .400 silver coins are barely distinguishable from copper-nickel. At .500 and above there's a significant difference. When you mix two metals - in coins silver and copper - it is not granted that the allows ability to conduct electricity and the average of the mixed metals. Most obvious examples are brass and bronze. The metals in the alloys themselves conduct quite good but when mixed you get a very bad conducting alloy.
Yeah those making fake silver is not very smart. Silver plate a (pure) copper coin and it'll be much more difficult to spot. Add to that that specific gravity of copper and silver is close enough that most amateurs wont be able to tell it's not silver with any statistically significance. I had a piece of unmarked (solid not hollow) piece of damaged I suspected was gold. Put in in all sorts of acid and alkalis I had in my household - a non precious piece would tarnish but this was left for days - nothing happened. For the fun of it I tried to measure its specific gravity - sure I shot it to be 14 karat. Since I couldn't sell the piece as jewelry and make money on it I sold it to a dealer to convert it (and more junk gold I had) to bullion gold. It turned out that the unmarked piece was 18 karat - I was happy - more bullion gold for me :D
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Very cool test, thanks for the demo
Brice CoinsAndRelics Thank you. More tests to come!
I suggest you just buy your coins from a well-known well trusted dealer
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Cool test! I want to get one of those 5oz incuse Indian rounds one day. I got some of the smaller sizes but I really like the 5oz. Happy Thanksgiving!
GREGDIGGERMXT It's a really nice size, not too bulky and weight weighty.
Very informative Sal! We have to be very careful. I only buy from two places that I trust (so far) and I stay away from scambay. Thanks for sharing this.
Leejack 27 Thanks Leejack, stay tuned for more of these comparitive test videos.
Will do!
5 oz of copper and 5 oz of silver do not weigh the same. That's because silver is weighed in troy oz while copper is ADVP. Thus 5 oz of silver weighs 1.097 times as much as the copper round.
***** That's exactly right. Hence why you see the edges beveled on the copper piece. It's 5 ounces AVDP. Thanks for watching.
The laws of physics are awesome.
Copper will be a bit faster, but would be hardly recognizable. Silver has a slightly better conductivity, which means the electrons will ‘whip’ around within the metal (in the electron sea model) faster (with less resistance) thus producing higher eddy currents & their incumbent magnetic fields impeding the movement of the magnets…
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This is part of the reason why I buy silver dimes. For counterfeiters, there's not much of a chance of profit, even on a large scale (the average dime sells for ~$1.50), there's extreme detail on the face and edges, and not much of a weight difference can be allowed. I'm thinking of buying one of those rare earth magnet slides in order to further check the validity of the coin. Do you know of any cheaper ones that are currently on the market?
Good move to get the dimes. CCT here on youtube has a coin slide with the magnets built in. I've posted videos with it.
What is really important here is the Angle of the Dangle !!!
Stokjockey Ah, very true. :)
The scooter! 🍺😂 haha! oh sh&t that was good.
Very good and it's copper that made me not bother investing in P metals, but very cool that you showed there is a difference
There are other ways to test (in this playlist) and a precious metals verifier to tell you for sure quickly.
NO, it can't be trusted for copper contaminated silver. I got a bad 10 oz bar once. The last time I tried this test. Basically for me as a pourer getting larger bars it is useless.
Wow. That is crazy. I'm sorry my friend.
Great vid. Thanks for the demo.
InFrontOfYourBack1 Thank you. Stay tuned for other tests! :)
Very good test, Salivate...thanks for the vid!
***** Thank you so much for watching iamgogi! :)
Fulcrum? I didn't think you could say words like that on UA-cam.
They made a special exception for me.
Silver and Copper has a different specific weight(specific gravity); it is imposible that this two coins supposedly made from copper and silver and with the same size wight the same.
I did a video on that as well. called Can you Trust The Specific Gravity test.
Totally different sounds though!
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Nice one SalivateMetal! I have just uploaded a video on my channel that is a similar test but for Silver Bars. I did not however talk about copper so good insight! @
Why aren't you using neodymium magnets with a RUBBER coating to protect the silver/gold? Thanks.
Rubber will provide friction that will nullify the test.
Thanks Salivate. Hope you're still responding as Don't own pm yet and very curious. Regarding 1 oz silver rounds, how would a skilled crook do it? Difference of 2.2 grams tween AVDP and Troy but apparently lead is diamagnetic so a little lead added to bring to Troy weight? If you say such an alloy is possible what then? Now the weight and dimensions are the same and this magnet test is too close to call apparently, especially under the pressure of a deal. So one would have to do a laborious ping and specific gravity test on each coin, and apparently you imply here that the SG test is not foolproof either.How to realistically and safely invest in and sell small divisions of silver below bar size is the concern and my central question to you. I.e, seems quite discouraging for person buying a quantity, say 100 or 200 rounds, especially if prices go to $100/oz and fakes become much more profitable and worth doing. First, one could not do a ping and sg test on more then 10 rounds in a coin shop, if that many. Secondly, even if rounds are real, if you returned to the shop in a few years to sell all one hundred rounds or even just 10 rounds would the dealer not turn you away? For the same reasons, paranoia coupled with time constraints? Got excited about this but now wonder how this is viable. Either now or worse when prices way up and consequently buyers more terrified of fraud, how to sell your stash? Junk silver okay you say but would prefer rounds. Yes, read about SMI but that probably not very unbeatable either. Would appreciate everybody's insight here, but of course, especially yours. This video up with the very best and most illuminating.
+wheelruts Check out the playlist for this series for the answer to your questions. :)
+SalivateMetal Studied all your videos before writing first time, and from them got the impression top quality fakes quite possible. Before, I thought weighing, measuring, and a diamagnetic magnet test would suffice. I wrote because I closely looked at all your info, which no one else on utube has provided so well. Thanks again. 2---Yes you are an expert, but main concern was that most buyers are or may not be expert and that the specific gravity test would be too time comsuming for buyer to want to process more then couple rounds. Means I have to make long journey just to sell minimum amount. Unless you will concede to moving to my town. 3---Also bit worrisome for me to buy from coin shop, cause doubt I'll be allowed to use the ap to test ping and do a SG test on 20 rounds. 4----Letting this go. Guess it's like I thought. Resign myself to drilling a hole in each round I need to sell if I decide to buy some. Cheers
They best way to save time in testing is to buy from a trusted dealer. If you are purchasing rounds or bars and study the design, it's pretty easy to discern the fakes even though the technology of the counterfeiters is improving, they miss key details or aspects. The other option is to buy slabbed or graded pieces by NGC or PCGS and check their registration numbers. If you do these two things before purchasing, you will probably save yourself a lot of hassle, otherwise the odd ends you can test via these methods. :)
For this one, try creating a steeper angle like 45 degrees...the difference should be quite noticeable then.
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Well copper and a magnet will produce electricity and that can be the cause for the magnet going slow on the copper coin.
It's actually diamagnetism.
You forgot that lead is actually a better material to fake silver because its magnetic susceptibility (being the measure of how much a material will become magnetized in an applied magnetic field) and density are almost identical to silver. The density of copper isn't that close to silver as lead's is.
Lead is waaaaay more dense than silver. Copper is much closer. This is why I used a copper round in this video.
@@SalivateMetal
*_Density:_*
Copper = 8.96 g/cm³ (difference to silver 1,53 g/cm³)
Lead = 11.29 g/cm³ (difference to silver 0.8 g/cm³)
Silver = 10.49 g/cm³
This means, like Nikolay Pelov already pointed out 2 years ago in the comments, that if you have a mix of copper and lead, so that there is 34.33 % copper and 65.66 % lead, the mixture will have identical density to silver and will also behave the same way in this magnet test, since both copper and lead are also diamagnetic like silver.
This means that you can't separate a copper-lead-coin like that from real silver coins with either the magnetic test, nor with the density test.
The Magnet test is a good way to spot FAKES, but use a scale too it helps.
I am not a big fan of the Acid test because it can damage the coins and make it tougher to sale or trade if your buyer isn't happy with the discoloration.
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As for the acid on silver, if it's just a generic or even maples ok r eagles, no one to really cares, the price is nt affected
that's it, i'm stacking on copper
might not be a bad idea. At least there isn't anyone faking copper like there is silver.
@@T12J7 dude, its been a year lol.. but I'm gonna warn you the premium is extremely high. Buy stocks instead
Congralulations on your collection. very good.
Thank you :)
Great video... Thanks for sharing
LearningDaily Thank you for watching
Great test now I don't have to bite my silver lol .
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can you pleas test a gold and see what hapend?
Gold has different magentic properties. I don't know that this test would be as reliable.
SalivateMetal if you doing this test make sure the thickness of coin are equal in size to get best compare between metal Thanks
Cool Sal. Man has your intro changed in 7 years.
What about these silver coins/bars with copper or lead plugs ?
They wouldn't weigh out right.
I figured that much , I was referring to how a magnet would interact with them since that was the demonstration you showed . My apologies for not being clearer .
@@I_am_Diogenes My guess is it would still have somewhat of an affect there too depending on how deep it was.
Aluminum behaves the same as copper and silver with the magnet test.
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Next monday i cant wait
Silver Bearbunny Thank you sir! :)
Not disagreeing w/ your conclusion but have you tried this with each coin separately or at least a bit further away from each other?
JoetheElectrician Yes, good question. I have done them separately. It's always good to have good control for sure. Thanks for the tip.
it sounded like you were slobbering with every word.....
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Awesome video !!!!
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Silver is more conductive so it's creating stronger magnetic field to resist the magnet.
but it generates 10% more electricity
Could you then just do a ping test to distinguish the silver from the fake?
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Precious metals Plinko! Nice video
mhandrews11 Thank you so much :)
I Guess Rex Raptor Collects Coins Now?
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@@SalivateMetal Rex Raptor Is From Yugioh he had a had life, but his Tyrant Dragon was counterfeit because the duel disked sparked in S4 against Joey.
Nice tests, have you tried the ice test? Ice melts faster on silver than copper i believe. That would be a good vid followup to this. Cya
superneo123 I've heard that. I may give that a shot! Thank you so much.
t should be very simple why this works like this. The best conductor of electricity is silver followed by copper. Which is the reason it slid a tiny bit slower on the silver than copper. It slides slow because of electrons in the metal temporarily produce their own magnetic field because they were happy where they were at. If you did this with copper wire or silver wire and then hooked an end up to something like a light and then dropped this through a coil of the silver or copper wire you have just made yourself a generator. Which is how every generator or alternator works on the planet to give you electricity. We don't use silver ever though it is better conductor of electricity than copper because copper is more abundant and way cheaper. Silver is also the best heat conductor too.
Scary!
I will have to buy a metallic saw!
Duivel Jager Maybe not go that far. lol
VERRRY INTERESTING.....MR. SALIVATE. ...
PART TIME PREPPERS Thank you so much
Great Video
Thanks for shareing . Well i just hope and trust the dealer i use do all their testing and i try buying new stuff from the mints. Cant wait to buy your new rounds for you iam all excited about them
Silver Bearbunny Thanks so much Silver Bearbunny. They will be available next Monday. Yes, buying from the Mints or a trusted dealer is good. My local dealer tests a lot of the product that comes through.
Love your vids, great info and thank you for taking the time to help us out, also great responses from subscribers, simply great info all the way around Happy Thanksgiving SM
LovinSumSilver Thank you so very much for your kind words. Yes, lots of good input on this video! Thank you!
Great vid, what do you think about the ice test?
Roberto Jusino - Los Vencedores Check out my video on that very subject. It's in the Can you trust the...playlist. Thanks for watching.
SalivateMetal Will surely do. Thank you for the response.
I don't purchase silver to stockpile for wealth; I buy it to melt, alloy to sterling, and create art. If I ever come across something that is not silver you can be sure the dealer (who has an excellent reputation and I have dealt with for many years) will hear about it right away, and will correct it with no hassle.
Bottom line: avoid ebay sellers and deal EXCLUSIVELY with someone you know and trust and can get back to.
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great vid great comparison
obeast121 Thank you :)
Anybody know if copper will pass the ping test.
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are the ping test different too?
Yes. They different. I think I covered that in a video too. Check the playlist
@@SalivateMetal recently i have test harmonic and maple silver, ping is totally different. searching out whether the ping test is the same from what you stacking .
Interesting concept...
Thanks.
Thank you...
Great vid-
Question- The magnet does not just slide off : it looks as if it is trying to hang on like a cat on the drapes.
Am I correct in my assessment?
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Very good information salivate.
silverflash Thank you :)
It makes absolutely no sense to say G&S will hold there value over time while simultaneously declaring the ultimate ruin of the fiat notes which are the measure of said value!
way cool mister salivating silver ,
I like those coins a lot , copper looks fine to me
Thank you sir. I appreciate you watching!
We need CCT and some DESTRUCTIVE testing!
😂😂😂
The magnetism test is a good starting point but, as shown in the video, it isn't 100% effective. A better way is to do a specific gravity test which is almost impossible for anyone to fake (its very easy.....Google for instructions). The specific gravity of gold is more than double that of copper and the specific gravity of silver is also slightly higher than copper so any fakes are quickly identified. See links below.
www.farm.net/~mason/materials/specific-gravity.html
coinsblog.ws/2016/06/detecting-counterfeits-specific-gravity.html
This test has always been iffy. Water displacement is a lot better but you still have to becareful.
Brian TheLog Very true. The specific gravity test still has to implement the right controls. Thanks for watching Brian
Nothing to do with diamagnetism. Everything to do with electrical conductivity. The moving magnet induces electrical currents in the metal, which generate their own magnetic field, which opposes the motion of the magnet.
Isn't that the definition of diamagnatism?
Not really. Diamagnetic materials are slightly repelled by a magnet, and it is true that silver is diamagnetic. This effect is very subtle. The sliding coin test is based on Lenz's Law and is basically a measure of electrical conductivity of the coin material.
Good job making a video on this. I have done this test before and came to the conclusion that one way to test the authenticity of a silver coin/round is to
(in addition to making sure it's not magnetic) know the diameter and thickness of
coin/round being tested. In my experiment I used a copper and silver 1 oz Freedom Girl.
the diameter and thickness were virtually IDENTICAL. The only difference was that the copper freedom girl was 2.62 grams LIGHTER. If you don't know the specs. maybe learn how to do the specific gravity test. Thanks again for helping out stackers that may not have known that copper reacts just like silver in the slide test.
Silver Money Yes, that's right. A copper 1 ounce round is measured as an AVDP ounce which is .93 Troy ounces. Thanks for your comment.
diamagnetism: an applied magnetic field creates an induced magnetic field in them in the opposite direction, causing a repulsive force.
That's right. Thank you.
This is great information. Thanks.
Thank you!
That angle is way to shallow. 45 degrees would work best.
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