Is This TRASH? || The Truth About Expensive Tools
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Spec Ops Hammer: amzn.to/3fMjAOd
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I love that you got other content creators to colab for this video. I enjoy the balance of instruction and humor, keep up the great work!
Agreed, but we need links to all of them! I only follow a few of the ones who cameoed.
Hello Jason, I am not a wood work enthusiast but out of curiosity in learning how kitchen cabinets are made and installed I stumbled on your channel back in June 2022 and I must say, its your sense of humor that got me even more interested in learning wood work from your many videos. Thanks for making your videos fun and worthwhile to watch. Your instructions couldn't be even more crystal clear. Maybe one day I will start my little back-of-the-house workshop😄
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Thank you for the info and demonstration. I'm in the process of purchasing one but had no way of knowing the difference without an expensive purchase but you have made my decision easier. Thank you again
The domino saves lumber, eliminates mistakes, and reduces design time, too. Have you ever cut tendons on a piece to later find out the piece is too short, that’s a mistake I would make. If you are building with mortises and tendons, you must add the length of your tendons to the pieces that will have tendons.
I design my projects in Sketchup and I have a library of dominos to use so all I have to do is place them on the joint and check for clearances and determine the number of dominos required. I would hate to model each mortise and each tendon that the pieces of the project requires
20:49
One dowel to the other: Hey baby, do you come here often? Let's get hammered tonight!
Got the Triton and the Grizzly dowel joiner. They are the exact same tool - except the power button on the Grizzly has the power button further up on the handle which is way safer than the Triton.
I can't afford a Porsche 911 Turbo S, but that doesn't mean I bitch about other people driving one. Luckily I can afford a Domino and have had one for 15+ years and never regretted buying it. I'm so tired of people bitching about the Domino. If you feel like doing everything with handtools in candle light, kudos to you.
I was hoping that you would have touched on Beadlock joints and how they work time wise and cost in comparison. There is now some jig for a palm router that also replicates a domino joint, Temu…
I bought the 500 I went to hartville hardware they did the demonstration talked about needs and bought it it’s great to use if you’re off during your dry fit you can move it over 1mm to give yourself some play
Thanks for all the great info; also, that table base you had in this video was beautiful…did you do a video of that build? Thx!
When you were hanging the picture, is there any reason you weren’t using a dust extractor? Also what kind of glue do you recommend? I did a quick google search and didn’t find any definitive answers. One finial thought, seems like it would be a good idea to notch the domino so that the picture wire would be less likely to slip off.
I'd have loved to have heard the chats with all the UA-camrs asking them to hump their Domino 🤣🤣
I LOVE your sense of humor, and your videos.
Now Jason I think this is “hip thrust” technique of yours is really been taken from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Time Warp song where very specific instructions were given about how to do a “Pelvic Thrust” clearly pre-Dominoe but still you can’t deny the clear simularities. 😂
Just a Dowling jig works less than 100. If I needed or could use it once a month maybe , but I can cut all the joints with a table saw that's stronger than the domino joiner. Not as fast but
good video. I prebought and waited on the original. Loved it, but that inconsistency was a huge issue. Second if you have small thin pieces you were always having to do jigs. I developed a method where i stabilized the top as you with one hand and only used my thumb and forefinger to apply fwd pressure. That provided stable results. I used it for about a year and a half. I finally sold it for what i paid for it and bought the powermatic virticle mortising machine (at the time 900 bucks). I don't regret it and use it all the time.. It solved the slop issue, and allowed for monster mortises. Cheers.
It's important to note that the reason there isn't a true competitor to the Festool Domino is because they have a patent on it, just like they had on the Track saw. However, their patent on the track saw expired and this you see a bunch of competitors like Makita, Milwaukee, Kreg, etc. Out there now for much cheaper too. The patent on the Domino is set to expire at the end of 2024, so I'd expect big manufacturers to have their own version ready to go in 2025. If you're willing to wait, it could be a substantial savings, but it's still not a Festool.
There's nothing really special about festool. Only pinheaded brand loyal weiners think so.
Biscuits
The patents MIGHT end in 2024.
From my understanding there could have been tweaks to the design that would have required patent updates, and thus patents would have gotten extended. At least from the research I've done.
So it may or may not end at that time.
I'm going to assume it will probably be past 2024 only because the Domino XL came out a few years after the original Domino, and I think there are a couple of design changes along with that.
@@DESX312 You can't extend a patent beyond 20 years. If they patent any changes, only the changes will still have patent protection. The protection for all the features of the original Domino will expire after 20 years.
Yeah, someone might come out with a well built one. Look at Ave's review of the saw. These guys do have great ideas, but the execution is such that if a part needs high end, they won't skimp, but they will skimp where they can. Logical, but not inspirational. I guess so long as they make it last till the patent expires, they have done god's work.
Thanks for the lead on the 2024 patent expiry. When it is market priced, it will be an worthwhile addition.
I love my Domino! Just a thought on the Lemello doweler. After drilling the dowel holes, you could quickly and easily deepen them with a drill. It would only take a few seconds. Then use longer dowels.
Great video on the Domino but don't forget to check out the Pocket Mill Pro by JessEm, uses the same domino's as the Festool but only 350$, I have both the Festool 500 and 700 for various work I do but found for other things like mass producing picture frames the JessEm Pocket Mill Pro is a great tool.
I have wondered about this for a long time. Even way back when Norm was doing biscuits. No one explained it, or pulled back the curtain, and I was too lazy to look into it. We're talking 20+ years here. 😂
That wasn't a lamello machine, it was by Lamello but it is actually their Clamex joiner. It is used for KD (knock down) applications, not to make strong joints.
I want everyone to pay close attention to the wording in the beginning: "to prove that it's unbiased and that this video is not JUST sponsored by Festool, we went out and got ANOTHER sponsor." This video is sponsored by Festool.
Jason I laughed so loud when the patented hip thrust compilation played. Too awesome but I will stay domino-less.
@KeithJohnsonCustomWoodworking would be proud of your Seinfeld clips 😂
I only have one question.
Do your wife and son watch your videos, roll their eyes, shake their head and then walk away without saying a word? 😆👍
The reason domino gets so much hate is it bloody brilliant, fast accurate and nothing else like it. Meaning Festool can proper Festool on the price. Credit card melting brilliance. Like many German engineering products
Edit: Thinking about it if people believe that any of the major brand brands are going to bring out a Domino killer once the patents run out for a fraction of the price think again. Look at track saws from all the major brands especially battery ones very little difference in price to Festool
I know UA-cam people like you get a lot of crap. That is what I don’t get. I wanted you to know I think you are great. I learn a lot from you and how you do your videos. I know people give you crap about the expensive tools you use but they never talk about how hard you have worked to get the money for them. I have been saving for wood pecker tool. It takes time and a lot of work to get nice stuff. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You freaking kill me!!! 😂 "musical mantage"
Value for making money. I will buy that, but the big one now costs what low end large CNC starts at; or what you could buy a proper industrial mortising machine for, and a milling machine, both. Of course, those things are a burden compared to the space and weight of a Festool.
I really appreciate the effort, but I'm still not convinced a Domino is worth it. I have used the Model 500 a few times and it feels just like using my biscuit joiner and/or "doweller", except it is harder to hang onto. Unfortunately, I've never been a dancer (hip thrust). For longer, beefy dowel joints, I dowel out 1/2" diameter holes and then use those holes as guides to drill as deep as needed. It adds approx 30 seconds per joint. I don't see a $1000 advantage using Dominos over dowels for fitting a shelf in the center of a wide board. Nor is there an advantage over using biscuit slots for "Z" clips. Still love ya, mean it. Thanks.
I didn't know you could use this gardening tool for woodworking. I bought mine mainly for gardening.
Best entertainment, and I always learn something! Thanks for sharing, Jason!
The hip-push had benn around for million of years before Domino 😃
Jessem came out with a domino joiner that uses your drill for about $1000 less.
The price and lack of competition is a direct result of the patents held by Festool. As these patents are now starting to expire, it is highly likely that in the 12-24 months we will see another producer make a true in kind competitor as happened with biscuit joiners where lamello owned the patents originally, which also expired. Know there is some extension patents that have been granted but this space should be opening up soon.
$1600 and $1000.. I wish.. here in Aust we pay $2700 and $1850... crazier prices. Great video though 👌
It is nigh to impossible to cut a repeatable mortise using the Triton. It has flaws too numerous to mention.
I would also include the location as a factor when deciding wether to buy it or not. I'm in Mexico and due to import taxes, transportation costs, etc. the price of this tool (as many other imported products) can be between 25% to 50% higher than in the U.S. And if you also consider that the price range of the things made over here will not be paid in the same price range as those you make in the U.S. (over here would be 50% off or less) it doesn't make much sense to invest on such pricy tool when you will spend way too much time to amortize what you invested on it. I get the benefits that (sometimes) comes with paying for expensive things. I have had combination squares that didn't give me true 90 nor 45 degrees, hand planes with curved bottoms, a table saw that when tilting the blade to cut any angle, the "back" of the blade itself moved on the X axis
😮 4:40 switching tenon settings without it running😬
Always informative and fun to watch. Thank you!
Domino is a great tool. I dont own one... yet. My problem is which one do I go with? I probably need the DF500 90% of the time, but what if...? So do I just buy the 700 and 'waste' the excess capacity until the one day I need it? Decisions decisions...
If I could go back I’d get the xl.
I’m the same 90% the 500 is golden but that 10% is enough to make me wish I had bought the big boy
One thing is true even though it’s expensive I’ve never once regretted buying it
You left out the $200 Tianli jig that works with the Makita btrim router. For most hobbyists this is more practical. When the Festool patent expires there will be many alternatives
What a clear overview from the domino and it's competitors. I'm afraid this video will cost me some money soon... 🙂Thanks
That's a great review. Any chance of reviewing the Rockler BeadLock system. It looks like it'd be nearly or as strong as the Domino but waaayyy cheapera!
Living here in Germany and working for local carpenter. Festool is actually only for professional that’s why is it so expensive. But I have to say nothing is better than Festool.
DAMN THAT HIP THRUST MONTAGE MAKES ME WANT SOME CHOCOLATE😛
Dude, it's festool, I couldn't afford a bottle of water sold by festool.
Is there a reason your not using the new KM18 mallet?!
Seems like if festool lowered price to a reasonable amount, they would sell so many more, and make just as much profit
Was looking forward to you talking about the patent getting out of date soon and other brands being able to build domino machines soon. At least from what I've heard from other UA-camrs. Would be interesting to know when this will happen.
I think I read somewhere it wasn't until 2025 and even then it's possible to extend patents in some cases like making improvements or something. I have enough need for it between now and then that it was worth it to me to at least go for the 500 at this time. Maybe by the time I move on to larger items there will be a cheaper alternative. Makita, are you reading this???
@@bnssoftware3292 I've read somewhere the patent expires next year.
My biggest complaint is that I hate Festool products. They seem awfully plasticy for the price. Nod to them for the concept, but Milwaukee and Makita will do it better when its time, it'll be cordless, and it'll be half the price. I'll wait.
@@AustinL911 Agreed on all points. I'm waiting for Makita. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't wait entirely for 2025 and beyond to start some much needed projects.
You mean that China takes notice of patents ???
There are videos on YT where people have made their own "Domino" style mortising machine using scrap plywood and a trim router.
You're close to 1Mil subs!
OMG a woodworking video without that testosterone inducing He-Man guitar music!! What a relief! Thanks!
Great video! I'm currently in the market for a domino, and considering the 500 vs 700. The 700 seems like the obvious choice for larger work despite being ~$500 more, but my question is, while using the 700 on thinner material -- is it necessary to shim or raise the material to get the mortise in the right spot? Thanks!
Bent’s woodworking has a really good video about both of them, and which one he recommends.
I don't have a 700 but Seneca Woodworking sells an adapter for the 700 for using 500 cutters, if that helps.
I have a 500 and have not really felt limited with most furniture projects I do. The few times I've wanted larger m&t, I use other methods. So it depends on what projects you want to do.
@@FrazerCanyonWoodworks I'll check it out, thanks.
@@bluepeakworkworking Good point, I'm leaning towards the 500 for now, and possibly enlisting a combo of m&t along w/ dowels as extra support with larger joints. We'll see how that goes.
First off the Dewalt biscuit joiner is actually a plate joiner. It is not a loose tenon machine. The plate joiner is designed for taking large wide boards and aligning the top plane so it is even. Building a dining table is a good use for this. So terrible comparison. Not the same.
The triton doweler is more than adequate and if you need the holes to be deeper just do those manually. So easy to fix
As for this video!!! Well is it any mystery that it would be pro Festool video. A 27 minute commercial.
If you’re a pro making furniture or doors or windows then the cost of the festool is drop in the bucket. Buy the domino But even Jason does not do the kind of volume of work to justify a domino joiner. And frankly I doubt any pro furniture makers would watch this channel. Small business owners who do custom pieces might justify a domino for their work but hobbyists or even handyman/ contractors can easily get away with dowels.
Thanks for the commercial!!
That’s one way to bitch about a video without actually bitching about a video.
Best thing I ever did was sell off my df500. Dropped $1100 on it and it was nothing but a waste of time. Caused more work than it saved. Thankfully I unloaded it into some poor fool on eBay
Your forgetting about beadlock joint system
so as far as I remember, they still make dowels. Now of course they may not be as fast, BUT, most people have a cordless drill around and for very little money can purchase a dowel jig that is very precise as well. And depending on who's strength test you watch, I have see some that show the dowels doing very well against the expensive domino's, and for all those reading, the domino's are not cheap either. Where you have many different choices for the type of wood you would like to be in your doweled projects. So unless you are in a situation of doing large jointed tables where you have to be fast every day, Im not sure if you could justify the Domino every unless you are just a Cool Tool Junky? What do you think sir? And excellent and funny segment thank you!
Table saw planer and router just make your own domino's. I typ use ash or maple and cedar (for cedar outdoor). A contrasting wood and doing a thru domino can look nice.
I really want my work to get one, I use so many biscuits.
After watching this why am is still playing with those black dominoes with the white spots? Asking for a friend lol Wins best UA-cam video of the month
10:35 True..people are like that
This video was HAaa-larious 😂
My Spanish skills are almost non-existent, but I'm not sure the audio and text on the screen matched up.
Also, my kids watch your videos. I think we need a warning for a hip thrust montage. 😆
Additional note: it’s not just the domino you need to buy! This tool requires dust extraction, so add another grand on the investment. Thanks for the great vids!
A shop vac works as well. If you are starting to get serious about woodworking, a decent dust collector should likely be on your list before a Domino anyway.
Not worth it in my opinion. Just like Woodpecker products. Use a dowling jig or cut a hand tenons for bigger projects. IMHO
Another great video! Informative and entertaining! I think buying these tools is a great investment especially if you are making money, and wood working is your business. A big time saver to routing and using floating tenons.
Quality content, as ever
There are other brands of domino joiners that are cheaper than Festool.
IS IT WORTH IT? FINAL ANSWER:
- You’re running a production furniture shop: YES
- You’re a wealthy hobbyist*: YES
- You have a moderately successful or better UA-cam woodworking channel: YES
- You’re an everyday hobbyist: NO
*Since “worth” is likely a nonissue for you
I’ll just stick with my £30 ($40) dowelling jig I think. 👌
thanks
Doesn't matter how much a piece of equipment cost, but rather how much money you make with it.
I'll just stick to my dowel jigs, and then use ANY diameter, depth and more importantly, material, that I want!! No limits whatsoever. And you make them for next to nothing.
triton sucks and then i bought a maffell ddf40 nice vid love it funny man 😄
Can you not just use a plunge router to make slots for dominoes?
You totally can, it's just more fiddly and requires more setup. Totally fine for a hobbyist woodworker (like me) who doesn't have to rush to meet customer deadlines. The ease and efficiency of the Domino for professional woodworking is the main draw--the rest of us are just distracted by the shiny. 😂
Terrific video BM! As a hobbyist, that tool is way to expensive for me. There are many other ways of doing the same type of joinery. 👍👍🔨🔨
I think they are worth it, but not as easy as people think
Your measurements need to be on point now throw in some reveals makes you have to plan out your joinery
But my Domino has paid for itself over and over again
I agree if diy or content creator think the Domino is overkill
Funny, in germany is it half the price. I have bothe domino from festool and the lamello zeta, and its not expensive in germany. Milwaukee and dewalt are the same price here as festool but not as near the quality Tools as festool mafell or lamello (made in germany). For us are milwaukee dewalt makita overprized made in China Tools😅
As a small shop owner I found that hand cut mortice & tenons were just fine for what I was doing. But as demand increased, the speed that the loose tenon method the Domino gives just made sense. I only have the 500 as I still use hand cut for large (over 2") tenons in big pieces like dining tables, so the 500 fits my need perfectly. I wouldn't be without it now. The lack of true competitor is where Festool hit you, but once that patent expires, expect to see Makita et al producing clones at more competitive pricing.
TL/DR: If you are making lots of things and making any money from it, the Domino is a great friend to have. If a hobbyist, maybe just a luxury.
Great video, informative, very funny, and love all the other content makers participating. You kind of short changed the dowel concept. Sure that machine drilling just two dowel holes has lots of limitations. But dowel joinery can be done with simpler tools such as DowelMax which allows you to drill as deep as you like and with as many dowel holes as you like, anywhere you want., using 1/4” to 1/2” dowels. Tests show multiple dowels joints can be stronger than domino joints. So as a DYI guy, I’m sticking with dowel joints.
I felt the same way. I mean, to defend his video, he is only comparing joining 'machines' and not joining 'techniques' so I can understand why jigs like Dowelmax or Jessem didn't make it on the list. But yeah, for a hobbyist like me that isn't pumping out work on a daily basis trying to turn a profit, using a jig that costs a fraction of the price is definitely worth it even if the set up is a bit longer.
The hip thrust montage alone made this video worth it.
One thing i'm curious about, I've heard that the Festool patent for the Domino is set to expire soon which will allow other manufacturers to build their own version. Just wondering if there's something to that?
Here you can even buy a 16mm domino (0,63 inches), not from Festool, but aftermarket one. It is primarily used for doors and other large pieces. And my local domino producer also makes oak dominos usually for outdoor furniture. Or extra wide 14mm tenons, these ones are indestructible! (You make a regular hole and then use the first pin to enlarge it to 40mm width, clever and fast)
Would love a link or manufacture name for the 16mm cutters. Thanks.
I don't need a $1600 domino joiner, biscuits have been good enough. I will wait for Festools patent to expire and then buy a Makita or Milwaukee domino joiner for $300.
I feel the same way. I can't wait for that patent to end.
Good luck with that!!!
Supposedly they expire somewhere by the end of this year yet, I'm hesitant to just buy a festool joiner rn.
I can’t believe you hacked my phone and posted that video.
Love watching people, like you, utilize the best tools available to fine tune your craft. Me... I'm a hobbyist woodworker and while I'd love to own a Domino or Origin router, but they are way out of my price range and only a dream. I'd never be able to justify their purchase, so I'll be sticking with biscuits & doweling jig and my manual routers. ;)
Keep up the great content!
Same here although I did build a horizontal mortiser
It’s hard to beat a doweling jig when you’re outside of a production setting.
@@ericw9655 Agreed, they work very well.
I also had a hard time parting with $400 on a decent track saw (Makita, not Festool)... but it will get plenty of use.
No reason not to use free tenons if you want to, easy to make your own tenons to fit whatever size mortice you want to cut, using only a router, router table and table saw…, I just did it on my first ever furniture project, a red oak K.S. Bed
Great video! You can always use the Triton Dowelling Jointer to drill the holes initially, and then increase the depth with a drill. This allows you to increase the depth equal to or deeper than the Festool Domino. ☺️
Great idea!
Came in to make this very comment
Comment thief! LOL!
For $1200 it’s probably worth the time!
Or just skip the jointer and use the drill to begin with.
@@Adierit the jointer positions your holes correctly and then the holes act as a guide for more depth.
Yeah, it can be done with just a drill but it’ll take more time to get it right.
I just got another notification about this video while I was watching this video. UA-cam algorithm hard at work recommending stuff I’ve already seen… and people are worried about AI. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I got the small Domino from my wife and my daughters to my 50th birthday and I love it. But I'm afraid I have to wait for my 60th to get the XL ;-)
There are so many other possibilites I build a printer stand for my brother. It was only a box. (boring) Then I cut it off-center in two pieces and connected it with (many) dominos, but the dominos are visible (1,5cm). It looks like ribs. I think it looks really cool. ;-)
Awesome timing. I just got my Domino 700 XL (first Festool tool) just over 2 weeks ago, and I was utterly amazed and absolutely ENJOY using the thing.
This honestly kind of made me angry as I had brought it thinking that I would take it back if it didn't knock my socks off. I said it HAD TO to justify the price!
Needless to say I am already about $600+ extra in with the 4 cutter heads + dominos + Seneca accessories + TSO big foot accessory, etc....
Damn you Festool! You got me!
There is an attachment for a router that makes domino slots.
I'm a DIYer/Hobbyist and rationalized my purchase of a DF500 with this thought.
My enjoyment when woodworking comes from the design element and seeing those designs come to life, more than from perfecting technical skills like hand cut mortice & tenons, dovetails, etc.
If the Domino enables me that enjoyment and the ability to produce professional quality joinery, then it's worth it for me.
100% agree. I justified purchase for the same reasons. The more honey do items checked off the list the better. Allows me to develop adjacent skills and when I have time, I’ll go down the traditional joinery rabbit hole .
That just perfectly put into words how I justified mine recently, better than I've managed to express it myself, thank you. Seeing my designs come to life, beautiful 👍
I think we’re all in the same boat here. I felt the same way and have done the same. Thanks for your thoughts!
All though it would be nice to add a domino to my collection of tools, as stated by others, I can't see one in my shop. Most of my work is done for my home, wife, and family. I'll stick with dowels. It's all about the dollars and cents. If you don't have the dollars, it doesn't make any since.
Great video though, Thanks!
Señor thank you for having some salsa in your videos! How bout that Modelo Beer! Awesome! Mexicans do enjoy your videos! I know I am! Saludotes
Should you spend money on a domino NO or a kreg jig..... LEARN TO DO CORRECT JOINERY
Really glad you mentioned Triton's Doweling Joiner - I have Grizzly's version and it really makes joinery easier. I'm a hobbiest - I cannot justify the cost of a Domino Joiner - but I really like the convenience and especially the speed of a joiner tool like the Doweler or Domino. I think it's the best alternative to a domino unless you are flushed with cash or making furniture full time.
Hands down one of my favorite Festool products. I have the 500 and looking forward to getting the 700. Outstanding video!
Got both, they are fantastic, quick and accurate. Bloody expensive. Reason there is some much noise around them nothing comes close to being as good
How does a joint using the Rockler Beadlock Pro Jig compare to the others?? It seems very similar.
The hip thrust bit had me roll on the floor laughing. Thanks for that.
One other down side of the dowel jointer is that it doesn't have an option to make over width holes to make alignment easier.
FYI although I don't own either a triton dowel or festool domino but I watched alot of UA-cam videos, so I am basically a pro on both tools
beyond a certain point does the length of the domino/dowel really increase the joint strength? the 'weak' (something something glue is stronger than wood) point will be at the joint
also a series of dowels where dominos would be have more glue surface area than dominos
Excuse me, You didn't use the hip thrust maneuver when you opened your beer and planted the garden. So Disappointed.