Fixing a Broken Neck
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Remember when our entire gooseneck ripped off the mast on our sail up the Norfolk from the Bahamas? Well last week we dropped off our design for the replacement at a local fabrication shop called "Metal Concepts" and this Monday's project is going to be installing the new gooseneck.
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Hi Guys, great job! ....the idea of an adjustable gooseneck is to tighten the Luff of the sail for heavy wind loads . You can only tighten a main so far with a halyard . With an adjustable gooseneck you can use a line to pull the boom down hard thus flattening the sail and reducing weather helm.
Hi Guys Great VLOG I am an Aircraft Engineer and just one point I noticed from your Boom & Goose Neck show your Securing Bolts are not running through to safety The Standard Working Practices says you should have at least 3 full threads showing from the Nut to make the whole thing safe yours are not even through the Nylon insert which means there is a chance that they will fail in time by undoing Regards Craig
I also spotted that, and was going to leave a comment.
Absolutely correct, Mr. Stevens. Used to race karts years ago. Nylok not enough. Longer bolts with slotted nuts, drilled and secured with safety wire.
@@howardwhite9773 your suggestion is the one I was going to suggest. I wouldn't want to make a long voyage like they are planning trusting nylok fasteners alone.
Another note, maybe, is never to reuse nylock nuts.
Was thinking the same
Power Tapping. I admire your confidence. Might want just a touch longer bolts to fully engage the ny-loc
Gave a tip to RAN Sailing for Bolts and Nuts. Use a paint pen or White Out (the kind with the little brush) and run a line from the Nut to the Bolt, that way you can see if the Nut or Bolt has backed off or loosened since you tightened it. It's a easy way to check for things that might be loose without having to dig for a wrench.
If the line is not broken or moved off line then its still tight. White paint pens work the best since you can see the line at night or in dim light conditions.
Stay safe....
Yes it's a good idea, but I'd use a sharpie: it's designed not to chemically react with metals. Liquid paper is not generally designed with this in mind. Also I'd be worried about it retaining salt and water in contact with the metal since it's porous after it dries.
Dan the man! You are a hell of a craftsman! I like to think I design and build well but you are amazing! Still enjoying all your DYI stuff. UMA looks like a new boat! Cheers from Philippines!
Sailing Soulianis could really use an awesome affordable metal working shop like that. The work looks amazing!
Lol! Halfff the comments are advice on bolt-length! We want you guys to be safe!
You've gone to all this trouble creating a beautiful clevis arrangement. If you're going to change out those bolts, consider using pins instead! Of course, you've considered many factors we can't know, and what you've got will certainly do the job! But for the sake of interested parties:
Bolts are made to clamp things together. They're not round, they're not smooth, and they're not really built for shear loads. A part that pivots on a bolt will wear out faster -- especially if it's touching the threads! A shock load will more easily bend an ill-fitting bolt. Pretty soon you'll be back in the same situation with wallowed-out parts rattling and banging.
A pin will be hardened and ground round and smooth with no taper. Your parts will fit closely and pivot easily. For the same diameter it will be stronger in shear. Also easy to remove, inspect, lubricate, and replace. Your anchor chain, your standing rigging, the sheaves in your running rigging -- all of these use pins.
Fastenal, McMaster-Carr, many other places (Home Depot?!) will have clevis pins with various types of retainers to do what you need. They're cheap! Get extra.
Good work! Good sailing, Uma!
I have been watching you guys since day one. I remember when you bought the boat for 3K with a loose keel. Since then you have made upgrade after upgrade and now it is a amazing boat !!! You guys are the best.....I especially love how you two work together........keep up the great work.
Dan, this was a Luff straightener. It's used to trim the mainsail flat when your sail close to the wind. It's Mauch more effective than the halyard.
Fair winds
Tom
Castle nut with a cotter pin would have been my choice.
Dan and Kika you really have a leg up on other S/V youtubers. The ability to design and build or have built anything for UMA. From the comfy futon to the lazy suzan pantry. The microwave to and stove to the wood box heater. The design of the gooseneck is impressive well done. Safe travel you two.
Bolts used in goose neck are a bit too short. Should, according to some standards, be three treads outside PTFE. Bolts, as now, can unskrew.
I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing stuff; personally i would say the nylon washers are unnecessary against the bronze (horizontal bolt) clevis, plastic washers rot away quickly and the ss washers don't need to be insulated from bronze. Or some of that caulking under each ss washer is my method. Then the locknut will engage but remember the plastic part of a nylock degrades too. 4 or 5 detents with a centerpunch inside the nut on the threads will lock it in place more reliably anyway, which makes the bolt length perfect as is. You can overpower those divots using a wrench, in case it ever does need adjustment. So much for nitpicking, everything about your repair is absolutely first class. Very well designed and built!
I had 2 small metal plates fixed to the aluminium mast by 2 screws each and the weak point was the threading in the mast. Aluminium is soft, the screws were steel. So in order to fix it better I drilled the threaded holes bigger and filled them with threaded rivets. It is still aluminium, but now I have 5-6 threads instead of 1-2 for the screw to hold. My concern here is that those 6 tiny screws are supposed to withstand great forces. I would definitely add 2 steel belts around the mast, so the screws would only need to lock the gooseneck in position, but wouldn't take all the pulling forces
Good point. that would be my concern too. The too short bolt on the pivot that everybody is talking about is a quick fix. But if this 6 tiny screws get loose, they are in trouble. I am wondering if they threaded the holes before screwing these 6. It doesnt appear in the video
To be fair to Dan, the use of some sort of steel belt system doesn’t appear too common. Google goose-neck pics and almost all show the same screw attachment methodology. BTW - awesome videos Dan. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
On some small sport catamarans like the Hobie 16, the main halyard locks when the sail is at the top. The gooseneck slides up and down, and there is a downhaul block underneath the boom for the luff tension on the sail. It doesn't make much sense to have that track if you're tensioning the luff of the sail with the halyard.
I wonder if your bolts shouls have been a few threads longer...to grab all of the nylock?
That is the standard in aircraft, at least 2 threads showing. Seems like that would apply in maritime situations as well. Good eye.
Jip... I thought so too
They looked pretty long at 1:42. How thick is the metal of the mast? His design should hopefully load the screws in shear more than tension, but yes, never too safe and sure.
I was wondering the same thing. In light aircraft, it is desirable to have about 1 - 2 threads out of the nylon. Good Sailing!!!
Just a brief comment on the weakest link. Can't think of why it would be an issue in this case, but keep in mind that in many systems some parts are engineered to fail before others. You just want to make sure that by strengthening your gooseneck you don't say overload something bigger of more dangerous. Likely doesn't apply in this scenario, but just something to think about. Engineer sailor...
The old track system was likely a hold over from racing rules that limited how high you could raise your sail, but not how you would adjust the boom. This would allow you to adjust the luff of the sail similar to what a cunningham would do (to depower it in heavier air before you take your first reef).
.... or perhaps, simply a down haul, in lieu of a cunningham .
You have to get a longer bolt, it needs to go through the locknut to actually lock the nut in place. Nice fix though
You know the bolt is a little short when it doesnt protrude 3 threads or engage the nylok right? If threads out the end are an issue cap it with an acorn nut. Great solution to your worn gooseneck! I dont trust nylocks but I have drilled and siezed a lot of bolts and nuts with wire. Smooth sailing! Hope you lubricated your thrust surfaces, #2 red lithium AKA red tack#2 is my go to.
Nice goose neck! I'd make that bolt on the boom a little longer since your using a self locking nut. You need to seat that nut fully on the bolt for it to resist turning.
Nice, looks stout!!!
Another outstanding project, and with a killer soundtrack!
dan you and kiki have done a tremendous job on that boat I mean you guys are head and shoulders above a lot of other sailing channels. I did notice that you don't have a bearing surface between the hard stainless steel and the softer aluminum on the mast fitting. would you consider shaving the knuckle height down so that you could put a bronze washer between the top and bottom tabs on the mast fixture and the stainless knuckle and boring the interior of the knuckle just enough to put a bronze bushing and Zerk fitting? I would make the bushing just a few thousand longer than the knuckle and size it so that you could pinch the top and bottom washers and bushing together with your through bolt to hold the bushing. That bronze fitting could be tig welded and bored.I have too much experience dealing with trying to get lube into areas prone to corrosion.
Hi Guys! Just wondering, did you use something to isolate stainless from aluminum? The piece is not under the water but... disimilar metals in contact can create galvanic corrossion, and the aluminum may dissolve like it was made of sugar. Teflon or delrin washers are always a good idea, also to avoide the damage on the aluminum because of the different hardness. Apart from that, the design is quite impressive and probably couldn't have done better.
Nice repair that one.
Thank you Dan and Kika. Very good design on the gooseneck connection. That should be a standard on any production boat. Have a good week ahead.
There's plenty of marine ( not auto ) engineers down in Portsmouth. Beg a favour to have that looked over as there's a lot of force applied through the gooseneck.
To quote an oft-needed answer: "SS is isolated with nylon washers. And yes the bolt I order ended up being too shot, but we’ve got longer ones waiting for in the next port.".
Guess your taking a beating on those ny bolts😉 .....The design of the new systems is very impressive. Well done and .👍 up to the shop for the fabrication and welding. Top Shelf
Pretty sure its now the strongest link on the boat......
Fairwinds from the @captains.chair
Dan great design, just those bolts need to be a bit longer. Best practice is 3 threads clear of a nyloc nut or they may not nold. Great video, thanks for sharing. Ant & Cid. xx
Hi Dan, looking at the gooseneck video the bolts look too short, they are not engaging the nylon in the nylock nut....You might have put thread lock on them of some kind but if not they need to prodrude into the nylon to prevent them coming loose...
Never ever has a gooseneck looked more cinematic 😅👍
self locking nuts need to have at lease one and half threads through them to be effective, or you should use safety wire, or a castillated nut with a cotter pin,
That's it, new nickname, The Boat Doctor! If it's sick, you'll heal it! Great job!
So how many superfluous holes do you think the mast can sustain? I see plenty - the new goose neck looks great but there are a lot of holes on that mast.
From a safety stand point I have to agree with the other comments made, the length of both bolts are far to short. At a minimum there should be several threads protruding from the nut so it can't work loose. In the Aviation world it has to be a minimum of three threads protruding thru a locking device. Other than that great concept and design.
Beautiful design and install on the goose neck! Good call on the nylon spacers between the neck and the stainless fitting. Everything you guys do is always top notch and I can really appreciate that. Cheers!
Great job on the design Dan. The lugs on the old neck looked like a good 50 knot squall would do them in. Glad to see the wear washers between the aluminum and stainless. Keep an eye on them. to ensure no fretting or galling to the aluminum. Thanks for the video. Cheers!
Great music chose ~~~ Nice weld on that filet ~~
I was going tosay it. The man who welded this is gifted.
@@marcryvon I learned working at the shipyard. over head was interesting
People should put that gooseneck on every single boat that gooseneck is the strongest carbon fiber vascular steel
A truly stout solution. There may be another weak link (it is a boat after all - so, we know there will be a weakness), but it isn’t this anymore! Well done!
Nice work as always Dan - yep - the bolts...
Think you have to short bolt. The locking nut need more threads to work.
Nice!
Happy Canada day!
Cheers and greetings from Vavenby BC ;)
great work,looks fantastic , well done and fair sailing
Phenomenal job. Kudos!
Between Metal Concepts, and Howdy Bailey, you will have ample people who will work with you, when you are finished with the cruising lifestyle. They know you can design eloquent pieces for sailboats. I could have used your talents a few years back.
Cheers
Great fix...
Short sweet to the point great job nice vid, loved the editing.....all DIY will gererate 'helpful advice' and you probably already got this.........
• NEED longer bolts in your goose neck pivot reckon adding the washers caught you out but nylocks dont work when the thread isnt engaged
• Mark the nut and bolt with dab of paint or nail polish for positive indication if any loosening has occurred
• Use lube when threading even aluminium
• Use a dishwashing liquid and water mix when cleaning up sika (it will glide through it)
• Probably have enough sika! but might have gone up a little in size for fixings/bolts to the mast
• Reckon the squeeze out probably provided enough of a film to prevent galvanic corossion but a touch of Duralac never hurts
Great work, looks like you got to it just in time
Does the squeeze out matter if the steel screws are threaded into the mast?
@@wilfdarr Nope (too much = messy) good to minimise potential galvanic corrosion between stainless steel and aluminium as well as act a bit like thread locker, reckon I would have used slightly larger screws though.
Suggestion: when laying down silicon/glue etc, instead of driving around all over, use a horizontal zigzag pattern to prevent pockets from forming during mating, which could harbour salt-water in the future
Nicely done Dan... I'm very impressed with your "fix's" always spot on... I'm still in Hampton...but sooner or later we'll head out... Take care and don't change... you guys are Rockin it 💪!!
I know you've got a zillion thread-length comments. I agree. Also, I couldn't really tell whether your stainless is isolated from the aluminum. If it isn't, you'll get galvanic corrosion.
SS is isolated with nylon washers. And yes the bolt I order ended up being too shot, but we’ve got longer ones waiting for in the next port.
@@SailingUma Ah, good. I almost didn't say anything about the stainless since you've already done a bazillion repairs over the years. Gotta say, the boat looks frickin' gorgeous compared to when you guys started.
Very nice upgrade
The problem with using bolts in high load and moving spots like this is the threads are going to act like a file in the since of the holes. Either the bolts threads will get squished allowing extra play or it will open up the hole. Better to use clevis pins or in a pinch shoulder bolts anything that is smooth inside the hole. The bolts as others have said need to be drilled and pinned. Also tefgel on those stainless bolts tapped into the mast. I prefer the right grade aluminum rivets that way it'd have all been similar metals and no galvonic corrosion potential.
The reason that track failed as you didn't have a block and tackle on it for your downhaul adjustment (modern sails use a grommet in the sail for the downhaul so most boats don't use that style on the boom anymore. It's a roller reefing thing).
The bolt actually have a smooth shaft all they way through til about 1/8” from the nut, so no tread wear and yes, we LOVE Tefgel use it on every connection where mixed metals are touching. It’s never failed us yet.
The bolt actually have a smooth shaft all they way through til about 1/8” from the nut, so no tread wear and yes, we LOVE Tefgel use it on every connection where mixed metals are touching. It’s never failed us yet.
@@SailingUma Glad to hear it on the bolt. I figured you wouldn't miss the tefgel 😉. Nice work on the design. I need to replace a similar aged system on my Easterly 36. The bronze casting for the gooseneck is about half worn through! I've flipped it to keep it from wearing further on that side and as you know no commercial replacements available and finding used is a gamble so...
Man, you are SO GOOD at this!
Nice job...Thanks for sharing...
Sorry should have read all the posts. Looks like we all saw the problem. Love your videos I am amazed at all the things you have done in non standard nautical parts and practices. Excellent engineering and thinking of no traditional solutions. Keep it up. v/r Tom
nice job ......but those ny loc nuts MUST have two complete threads sticking out of the nut to be considered safe locking mechanisms simply buy some longer bolts and while your at it buy a handful of replacement nuts because they are one time use in critical situations and with no back up engine i would say your main sail is pretty critical . I am not ragging on you just trying to help you stay safe as possible , fair winds
Great job Dan. 👍👍⛵️
any concerns about stainless with aluminum corrosion"""
Was going to raise this, should really isolate the aluminium to stop bi metallic corrosion.
Masterful job!
You should get some lock tight on that gooseneck nut to make sure it doesn't come off. Or you could use a cotter pin.
Well done, awesome job. Im always impressed with your DIY skills and how everything you do is thought through
Not sure of anyone has mentioned it but you need longer nuts on those screws :)
Great job...
For a bolt and nut to work as designed, (especially a lock nut), the bolt needs to extend beyond the nut by at least two threads. It appears the two new bolts you installed are not long enough. See rick engelman's comment as well.
Have to agree with all the comments regarding the length of the boom bolts. Should have a min of 2 threads showing past the self-locking nylon. You’re asking for a failure later. Otherwise it’s a beast of a gooseneck. Thanks guys.
Craig I concur. Standard practice is a minimum of two threads. Would recommend longer bolts. Great work on the install..
Hi, nice construction. As I recall, teflon vasher needs to be used under the boom in the neck - you may check it.
Please correct me if wrong, not an expert here but aluminum in direct contact with s/s... won't anode and cathode create a batterie that will have one of the alloys be sacrificed ?
I noticed that too, maybe the grade of alum. is good enough NOT to counteract with the SS ???
Was about to comment the exact same remark!
Nice piece of work. Do you have a spare for the boom end shackle? (that being the next most worn part judging by the verdigris all over it)
Awesome 😎
Every thing you guys fix or update makes me so jealous when I fix something it looks like crap, but functions I need a designer on board haha.
I wonder if rubber bushings could be designed into the transition block where the horizontal and vertical bolts are. Of course anything is possible, great solution all around!
Our '72 Pearson 33 has the same setup with the track. It's always been a sore spot for me. I think we may be able to just use the exact same dimensions because our mast section is the same...I think. I'll have to measure to be sure. Awesome design!
I'm worried about only 6 screws holding it to the mast and not even really big ones. I'd say those screws are your weakest link now.
Stainless bolts into aluminium mast and bracket, maybe not so good mixing metals....
Elizabeth Winsor that’s been done throughout time. As long as you use a barrier like Duralac or a modern version it will last a long time. A rig birthday might take out the fittings to check them for corrosion.
The bolts must be ~10mm longer so the nylon in the nuts can “lock” so they don’t vibrate loose ! :0)
yeah, I don't see the bolt penetrating the nylon on the nut. Good observation!
Bolts are to short, Mr.
that's neat...
Rivets would be stronger and more secure than 6 #10 PHMS. Just a thought.
Dan....what diameter are those they look bigger than #10?
Good job🌈
Happy Canada Day!
Awesome
Geting s..t done. Hurray for Dan the man!
Hey Lagoon, Fountaine-Pajot, Sunreef, Leopard, Catana, Balance, Privilege, HH, Seawind, etc...,
You are letting Outremer show YOU all up! Offer UMA a new Cat!!!!!
That's another great job we've done. Its time for a doughnut.
Mr. Fix it One hell of a guy. SUPER MAN
Nice job, well done. :)
Você é um grande engenheiro competente amigo
Why the adhesive? or was that waterproofing?
Wondering if you are aware of corrosion? Stainless steel and aluminum is a bad mixture. Maybe it is a good idea to use Delrin, nylon or POM washer to separate the steel from the aluminum.
I like it! The devil on my other shoulder says caulk on unprimed, unprepped aluminum won't be forever, and the screws should have been uniformly torqued. But I think you overengineered it enough so it last an easy 25 years anyhow.(g)
Happy Canada day
maybe the original design had a Cunningham to allow the boom to be pulled down?? Just a thought. Nice work Dan.
But very nice design 👍
Any updates on the gooseneck, how has it held up, anything you would change? I might have missed something over the years ;-)
Just watched your vid again and take it for what its worth, just get lower profile lock nuts, and everything will be fine. Would hate to see this fail when you need it most. Safe sailing and I miss her boat garden.
Are you sure you don't want adjust your boom? Always helps when you're trimming your sails.
Deffo need longer bolts so the nylock nuts can do their job . Just saying for your safety and the longivity of the job . Hate to see your efforts go to waste for such a lil error . Cool design n make up of the goose neck :-D
As always enjoy your videos very much Dan but check your bolts please I don't want to lose anybody to faulty equipment they should at least be one to two threads through the nylon keep doing what you guys are doing