Perhaps, but they got the spacing right between two pairs, why not all four? If it's something like an extra LED for even illumination, or blocks to prevent light bleed, maybe it's a bit too much form over function.... Transmille's 8100 series of 8.5 digit dmms has active terminal LEDs too but it's not as sexy as the fluke "halo" terminals
Please, for metrology ppms love, do not use any alligator clips for precision measurements. Even simple bare copper wire out of UTP LAN cable would be much much better. 8588A equipped with proper 5-way binding posts, use it to the benefit to avoid banana stuff :) Also those crusty resistors have huge TCR. Your mercury worry is legit, so I'd use gloves for uncleaned resistors like that just to err on safe side.
Thanks, all excellent advice from the master himself! I was going for speed not accuracy for the video here, but I've been reading a bit more about what you suggest on this topic, the talk of metrology q-tips now makes sense in Marco Reps' videos now!
Great video - I really liked your relaxed, informative style of presenting! I was wondering, does the Tru-Ohms measurement function mean that you do not have to null the meter as it is changing polarity thus cancelling out the error?
Thanks! Yes in true ohms you measure the voltage difference across the test resistor with one current direction, then reverse it. In theory, the two measured voltages should be equal and opposite, but in fact both differ by the offset voltage, so adding the two readings together allows you to calculate twice the offset voltage. You need a very steady current source, as well as low thermal EMF switching/current reversal for this to work
I actually have two Datron calibrators I intend to fix up some day (4708 fully optioned and a 4700 that might become a parts machine for it), beautiful machines! Glad to hear the team is still working in Fluke.
Alright mr big dog om campus.. thx for dropping the DMM-pants and making the rest of us feel inferior about our own precious digital multimeters. nahh :P but that is one very nice piece of testgear your have there...congrats with the heavy purchase... Is it still a nice relationship, here a year after the honeymoon phase?
So far so good, I haven't used as much as I thought. Other dmms like the DMM6500 and DMM7501 are just so much better for general experiments, but this does what it's supposed to do, which is be the last word in precision!
Yeah its a real step up. What puzzles me is how do they treat the heat from the shunt. I guess their internal shunt is around 0.066 Ohms from my measurements, so at 30A there's ~60W being dissipated there, not a small amount to have inside a 8.5 digit meter! Thermal management must be nice, and might explain the constant fan noise.
I'd love a 3458A, it's the classic! I had the choice of course but managed to get a great deal on the fluke in the end. I think you need a calibrator next, or maybe a resistance and current mode on a PDVS3 maybe?
They aren't worried about the manual being static sensitive. Pink poly is NOT for ESD protection. It just does not develop a charge when you move it around, so it makes good non-ESD generating packaging, as opposed to vinyl and plastic bags.
Wow, of all the things I thought I might get pulled up on in this video, I didn't even remotely consider it would be the antistat bag on the manual. But, seriously, thanks for commenting. I was unware of the distinction between prevention of static build-up and the other kinds of static-shielding bags. Not sure it makes sense still in this case, there's nothing static sensitive near the manual, but I'll read a bit more about ESD audits and measures.
@Giannis_TDM, well now you've made me check. I thought the reference was powered as my DMM6500 meter draws 45mW while off and I had very little switch on transients in measurements, but I've just used my IR camera on the reference while its on standby and its cold... So the LT SL40057 reference is NOT powered in the DMM6500, sorry about that. The datasheet does say you need to give 30 minutes warmup to meet specifications too FYI.
Thank you! There is very little information about this meter online. This is exactly the video we needed. Can you tell us how much did it cost? And do you have cost info also for the 8558?
Hi, glad you liked the video, I had the same issue that there's very little information on the unit in the public domain so I made the video, glad to see its helping others! I don't want to say what I paid for it, I think Fluke view that as sensitive information and I'd like to have a good relationship with them, they also provided academic pricing as I'm at a University so my price is probably not generally available either. Finally, I bought just at the start of the chip shortage/inflation, so my price is definitely wrong now; however, I will say that I obtained many quotes for 8.5 digit meters from a number of suppliers (I had to, its part of our procurement process), and they were comparable/competitive with the 3458a. Not cheaper, but close! Several months later I'm still very happy with the meter.
@@bansci Well, thank you in any case! Everything you can say about this multimeter is very useful to me. I've been looking for months for an high end multimeter, and to be fair I expected a little bit more functionalities and versatility. Let's say that given the big screen, I was hoping to see something similar to the dmm7510 from Keithley. Instead it looks like that this multimeter is made to be used with the aid of a pc and some custom code for data analysis. Still a wonderful meter and the most accurate there is, but after seeing how little you can do with that screen, the keysight 3458a with the high accuracy option doesn't sound that bad in comparison...
@@Maltanx When I balanced all that, for me the 8588a still wins over a 3458a. Most of my applications require programming (and I would argue this is generally true for metrology applications), so the faster data transfer/LAN control, larger sample memory, higher bandwidth (and speed) digitizer, higher stability ( and 2 year spec), and faster 8.5 digit readout (1 second vs 10 second) all score heavily in the 8588a's favor. I would also argue the 8588a interface is much simpler than the 3458a, even if its nothing compared to the DMM series from Keithley. My only concern with the 8588a is the lack of a linearity specification (I heard a rumor a paper on the meter's performance is coming out sometime so hopefully this addresses it) and the repairability compared to how well known the internals of the 3458a are.
Yup, nine times out of ten I just want to know if two points are connected or not, don't need much at all for that. But I am going to enjoy spending time trying to find ways to use this meter.
For me personally the HP/Agilient/keysight look much cooler and nicer altough it might not be as intuitive. Though the Fluke seems like a magnificent machine. Nonetheless i will never have or need imeither of them.
It looks like a beautiful meter. Can you comment on if it is possible to do an ACV ratio measurement between the front and rear terminals? Many meters nowadays can do DCV ratio measurement, but for accurate measurements on amplifiers I want to know ACV ratio.
Hey, can't remember exactly now. Something like one of these uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rtd-sensors/2364261 Definitely 4 wire PT100 and class B or better. Was the best I could buy on RS. No calibration certificate though and I did not anneal the thing or do anything special. Good enough for this job though!
In the schematic (page 41 of the user & service manual pdf) you can see that the battery is used as a floating offset source. It doesn't have a V-ref. Input voltage is chopper amplified and then showed on the analog meter.
@@electrobert8874Thanks I went back and watched my video again till I saw the schematic and it makes perfect sense! A nice stable (over short times) low-impedance voltage reference you can reverse to determine the offset voltage. Thanks for the correction!
Just ignorance of best practice, I started using them more and more later. The fact that arrow keys fail to work in the DCI external shunt mode helped move me onto the F keys.
@@bansci I see, btw: I am downloading measurements over Ethernet and made a tool to convert data from Columns (they are separated by commas) to Rows (EOL) separated.
Nope ... Just nope ... The non-standard spacing aside. Why oh Why when you have a massive screen like that is much of text just way to hard to read (poor fonts, font size, colors etc). Yes I know you can control it via LAN but come on. For that price ...
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Holy moly, what a beauty! Illuminated input terminals sure are sexy, but I wonder if those might be the reason for the non-standard spacing
Perhaps, but they got the spacing right between two pairs, why not all four? If it's something like an extra LED for even illumination, or blocks to prevent light bleed, maybe it's a bit too much form over function.... Transmille's 8100 series of 8.5 digit dmms has active terminal LEDs too but it's not as sexy as the fluke "halo" terminals
@@bansci only one way to find out: 🪛😅
I'll try to pluck up the courage! I just checked all the photos on XDevs/EEVblog, nothing really satisfying is out there yet... damn.
Metrology porn
Thanks for the tour.
Please, for metrology ppms love, do not use any alligator clips for precision measurements. Even simple bare copper wire out of UTP LAN cable would be much much better. 8588A equipped with proper 5-way binding posts, use it to the benefit to avoid banana stuff :) Also those crusty resistors have huge TCR. Your mercury worry is legit, so I'd use gloves for uncleaned resistors like that just to err on safe side.
Thanks, all excellent advice from the master himself!
I was going for speed not accuracy for the video here, but I've been reading a bit more about what you suggest on this topic, the talk of metrology q-tips now makes sense in Marco Reps' videos now!
Great video - I really liked your relaxed, informative style of presenting! I was wondering, does the Tru-Ohms measurement function mean that you do not have to null the meter as it is changing polarity thus cancelling out the error?
Thanks! Yes in true ohms you measure the voltage difference across the test resistor with one current direction, then reverse it. In theory, the two measured voltages should be equal and opposite, but in fact both differ by the offset voltage, so adding the two readings together allows you to calculate twice the offset voltage. You need a very steady current source, as well as low thermal EMF switching/current reversal for this to work
That "Fluke" was actually built by the original Datron Crew- Fluke bought Datron some years ago. I worked for Datron in the 1980s.
I actually have two Datron calibrators I intend to fix up some day (4708 fully optioned and a 4700 that might become a parts machine for it), beautiful machines! Glad to hear the team is still working in Fluke.
Awesome Video, thanks!
Alright mr big dog om campus.. thx for dropping the DMM-pants and making the rest of us feel inferior about our own precious digital multimeters.
nahh :P but that is one very nice piece of testgear your have there...congrats with the heavy purchase... Is it still a nice relationship, here a year after the honeymoon phase?
So far so good, I haven't used as much as I thought. Other dmms like the DMM6500 and DMM7501 are just so much better for general experiments, but this does what it's supposed to do, which is be the last word in precision!
That 30 amp range is a game changer.
Yeah its a real step up. What puzzles me is how do they treat the heat from the shunt. I guess their internal shunt is around 0.066 Ohms from my measurements, so at 30A there's ~60W being dissipated there, not a small amount to have inside a 8.5 digit meter! Thermal management must be nice, and might explain the constant fan noise.
I have a 3458A.....but would love a 8588A to join it and start some PPM wars between them!
I'd love a 3458A, it's the classic! I had the choice of course but managed to get a great deal on the fluke in the end.
I think you need a calibrator next, or maybe a resistance and current mode on a PDVS3 maybe?
They aren't worried about the manual being static sensitive. Pink poly is NOT for ESD protection. It just does not develop a charge when you move it around, so it makes good non-ESD generating packaging, as opposed to vinyl and plastic bags.
Wow, of all the things I thought I might get pulled up on in this video, I didn't even remotely consider it would be the antistat bag on the manual.
But, seriously, thanks for commenting. I was unware of the distinction between prevention of static build-up and the other kinds of static-shielding bags. Not sure it makes sense still in this case, there's nothing static sensitive near the manual, but I'll read a bit more about ESD audits and measures.
I own a 6500 and did not even know it keeps its vref powered! Good to know since I did not want to keep it running 24/7 due to fear of LCD burn-in.
@Giannis_TDM, well now you've made me check. I thought the reference was powered as my DMM6500 meter draws 45mW while off and I had very little switch on transients in measurements, but I've just used my IR camera on the reference while its on standby and its cold... So the LT SL40057 reference is NOT powered in the DMM6500, sorry about that. The datasheet does say you need to give 30 minutes warmup to meet specifications too FYI.
great video
Thanks!
Thank you! There is very little information about this meter online.
This is exactly the video we needed.
Can you tell us how much did it cost?
And do you have cost info also for the 8558?
Hi, glad you liked the video, I had the same issue that there's very little information on the unit in the public domain so I made the video, glad to see its helping others! I don't want to say what I paid for it, I think Fluke view that as sensitive information and I'd like to have a good relationship with them, they also provided academic pricing as I'm at a University so my price is probably not generally available either. Finally, I bought just at the start of the chip shortage/inflation, so my price is definitely wrong now; however, I will say that I obtained many quotes for 8.5 digit meters from a number of suppliers (I had to, its part of our procurement process), and they were comparable/competitive with the 3458a. Not cheaper, but close! Several months later I'm still very happy with the meter.
@@bansci Well, thank you in any case! Everything you can say about this multimeter is very useful to me.
I've been looking for months for an high end multimeter, and to be fair I expected a little bit more functionalities and versatility.
Let's say that given the big screen, I was hoping to see something similar to the dmm7510 from Keithley. Instead it looks like that this multimeter is made to be used with the aid of a pc and some custom code for data analysis.
Still a wonderful meter and the most accurate there is, but after seeing how little you can do with that screen, the keysight 3458a with the high accuracy option doesn't sound that bad in comparison...
@@Maltanx When I balanced all that, for me the 8588a still wins over a 3458a. Most of my applications require programming (and I would argue this is generally true for metrology applications), so the faster data transfer/LAN control, larger sample memory, higher bandwidth (and speed) digitizer, higher stability ( and 2 year spec), and faster 8.5 digit readout (1 second vs 10 second) all score heavily in the 8588a's favor. I would also argue the 8588a interface is much simpler than the 3458a, even if its nothing compared to the DMM series from Keithley. My only concern with the 8588a is the lack of a linearity specification (I heard a rumor a paper on the meter's performance is coming out sometime so hopefully this addresses it) and the repairability compared to how well known the internals of the 3458a are.
Nice meter, I only have a 7 1/2 but it's overkill for most of what I do.
Yup, nine times out of ten I just want to know if two points are connected or not, don't need much at all for that. But I am going to enjoy spending time trying to find ways to use this meter.
For me personally the HP/Agilient/keysight look much cooler and nicer altough it might not be as intuitive.
Though the Fluke seems like a magnificent machine. Nonetheless i will never have or need imeither of them.
It looks like a beautiful meter. Can you comment on if it is possible to do an ACV ratio measurement between the front and rear terminals? Many meters nowadays can do DCV ratio measurement, but for accurate measurements on amplifiers I want to know ACV ratio.
Thanks for the video. What kind of platinum resistance thermometer are you using with the DMM6500?
Hey, can't remember exactly now. Something like one of these uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rtd-sensors/2364261
Definitely 4 wire PT100 and class B or better. Was the best I could buy on RS. No calibration certificate though and I did not anneal the thing or do anything special. Good enough for this job though!
The mercury battery is not a reference, but it is used as a floating offset correction
Thanks for this content! Do you have any more information about this somewhere?
In the schematic (page 41 of the user & service manual pdf) you can see that the battery is used as a floating offset source.
It doesn't have a V-ref. Input voltage is chopper amplified and then showed on the analog meter.
@@electrobert8874Thanks I went back and watched my video again till I saw the schematic and it makes perfect sense! A nice stable (over short times) low-impedance voltage reference you can reverse to determine the offset voltage. Thanks for the correction!
Turn up the volume, please.
TURN UP YOUR HEARING-AID.
Nice review, but why are you not using F1-F5 keys to change ranges? It is much faster compare to arrow buttons.
Just ignorance of best practice, I started using them more and more later. The fact that arrow keys fail to work in the DCI external shunt mode helped move me onto the F keys.
@@bansci I see, btw: I am downloading measurements over Ethernet and made a tool to convert data from Columns (they are separated by commas) to Rows (EOL) separated.
@@tajataky please share if you can, it's always interesting to see other people's ideas and work
@@bansci I shared a link, but youtube removed that comment.
@@tajataky Thanks! I've found it in my spam. I'm not sure what UA-cam is doing, but its removing quite a lot of comments at the moment.
Would this be good for an electrician?
Not really, won't fit in their pocket and is like taking a Lamborghini for the weekly shop!
i thought IEEE488 was dead. it should be.
Rich🤔
its too small. they should make it bigger!!!!!!!
Muldameder
Ouch!
Nope ... Just nope ... The non-standard spacing aside. Why oh Why when you have a massive screen like that is much of text just way to hard to read (poor fonts, font size, colors etc). Yes I know you can control it via LAN but come on. For that price ...
The interface is definitely a missed opportunity, especially how good the Keithley's are. Still, the specs on the fluke are out of this world...
Maths please, not Math. You are not American.