Do these streamers sound different ?.Yes they really do .
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- Опубліковано 2 бер 2024
- Here I review WiiM and BLUESOUND
node 2i streamers for sound qualities .
Using AKAI am 73 amp and linn wakonda preamp
All going through Grado SR 125 open backed headphones
patreon.com/StereoreviewX
Great reviews, honest, feels unbiased unlike so many other “reviewers” on UA-cam
Just saying what I hear that about it
Thanks
These things like all digital audio devices, are very DAC dependent, the DAC being the determining component as to over all sound quality.
At work, we have the privilege of using a Wadax Reference and Atlantis streamers and DAC's: the pinnacle of digital streaming and these things destroy all and so they should, seeing as the cost of them resemble telephone numbers! It is definitely down to the DA conversion, as we have plugged other streamers /cd transports into these substantial beasts with some incredible sonic results.
Thanks again Kelvin. Best of luck, mate.
There’s one thing you can say about all Michael Jackson songs, they are excellently mastered. They sound amazing whether you like the artist or not whether you like that type of genre of music or not the guy and the engineers, the entire team responsible for the albums that Michael Jackson released did excellent top quality mastering, to be honest, I think very few bands or groups or artists can rival the quality of the mastering on most nearly all Michael Jackson albums/songs
Quincy Jones certainly did his part with Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad; incredible production on those.
Proper real life reviewer who tells it the way it is great
It’s great to have you back, I’m certain theres a very large number of us who have missed your uploads. Great to see you interacting with the comments too. Hope the channel grows for you mate.
Hi Kelvin. Your authenticity, knowledge and experience are a stand out. Real words to describe the gear you review and well articulated descriptions. You're a one off. Don't ever change
I appreciate that!
Probably the best reviewer of audio gear on the UA-cam. I really like Kevins honest take, not shying away from what he experience.
Most known reviewers don't give us the full picture and you often need to read between the lines. They are also in different degrees dependent or connected to the industry.
I hope Kevin stays independent and keeps uploading videos.
Cheers mate.
He’s called Kelvin 😂
@@russellparker4568 There are, as yet, undiscovered tribes in the Amazon rainforest who knew you were going to say that!
Telepathic tribal individuals, interesting. 🤦🏻♂️
Yeah, I did watch some hi-fi reviewers recently it’s like watching the riddler in Batman
Only harder to figure out
@@stereoreviewx That's about the size of it. The good thing about your reviews is that you speak in everyday language which everyone can understand. Thanks !
Must have missed this one at the time. More of the same brilliant review work! Can't believe anyone could paint a better picture of hi fi kit or the sound it produces than you. Not used my old audio Lab 8000a for years but thought a good music source would be a streamer. You've given me something to consider. Binned off my vinyl years ago, what a stupid mistake!
I’ve read several of the comments pointing out the use of an external DAC. I use external dacs so I found for me it’s more about the apps. The WiiM app does a much better job with Amazon music for my personal use. No tiny fonts and icons like the Bluesound. I’ve had both devices. There’s no doubt the dac in the Bluesound is better.
Wiim app is excellent i agree and has a very useful.........(block your ears audiophiles) graphic equaliser
Man, I really like your reviews, mainly because you are great finding adjectives to describe feelings in sound. As a 47 old guy I've been through the 70's and 80's equipment and like that vintage kind of sound and you just get it to the point. Tks and cheers!
I appreciate that!
Awesome review like all of your vintage gear reviews! I’m LOVING the new microphone also!
Thanks so much!
Keeping it real , keep them coming .....new episodes , been doing reruns for almost a year !!!
Great review and comparison as usual 👍💯👍
Another spot on review. As the node 2i became some kind of reference streamer, it is useful to know how the WiiM compares to it. Congrats for the microphone!
Great reviews !Love your style of reviews!No hype just honest and straightforward opinions!
Very good and informative review. Thank you.
I'm so glad you posted this video. I tried a version of the Wiim a few months ago and came away very disappointed. I was done with streamers after that, but perhaps I will give the Bluesound a listen. Thanks as always Kelvin!
I wish you make a part two with the same streamers. This time reviewing them on speakers instead of headphones.
Good comparison- thanks. Like many I use the Wiim Pro to pass through to a separate DAC. The DAC in the Pro Plus is an improvement on the Pro but still not brilliant as you demonstrate.
Cheers Kelvin, I’m going to keep an eye out for a second hand Bluenote
Everything you said about the wiim is exactly what i found, and to be clear i never used the built in dac, straight into a ess reference chip dac. Wiim is ok, thats all it is. The thing i noticed the most was the flat sound-stage.
Thanks for the entertaining video.Keep them coming !
Thanks, will do!
Great review I have the wiim through a rega dac or a chord dac
Just bought a WiiM Plus yesterday. Great minds!
I’ve got the WiiM mini and use the Arcam SA10 internal Dac I did have a Topping dac with my Sony amp no complaints from my new setup it’s small enough to hide behind my amp great review Kelvin the one thing you mentioned about listening for long periods i tend to switch from streaming to CD more than often now l’m just waiting for my turntable journey to start can’t wait 👍🏻
Good job. I have the sa30 and its streamer section is not that good. I much prefer using an Apple TV - the only real benefit of the sa30 it’s the hdmi arc and more power - not the internal streamer - it sounds tinny 😂
Good afternoon from Toronto ☕️❄️
I went with Wiim Pro ( not the plus) and feed it optically to my new Denafrips Ares 12-1 DAC …and it’s pretty damn nice!
Good work DJ K...loving the bad ass mic 🎙for sure. Vocals are filling the room with resonance and clarity - give Alison Krauss a run for her money,,💌😆
Thanks for another interesting and insightful review Kelvin. I have never used a streamer in my system as yet, so your comments on the differences between those two devices, will help me know what to listen for in other streamers, if I decide to get one. PS. Your new mike sounds fine but the mounting arm mechanism gets in the way physically and visually, between you and what you are reviewing. I think it would be better off to one side and more out of the way. All the best.
🤗GREAT TO SEE YOU KELVIN…CATCHING UP WITH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY 👍😎AND TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF 💚💚💚
Awesome review, comments are interesting g, relevant and well explained
Great observations human efx/sound vs an instrument
Brilliant and thank you. Really interesting subject 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Hi Kelvin, yes I agree with you on the Wiim I have that one in my spare room office. It is good but you get what pay for... I wounder if you would like to give a review of some equipment I have. I can send them to you.
Ever done a review of headphones? I would appreciate it. Good to see you back!
Or......do what I did...........buy the wiim pro plus and add a topping E50 dac for an extra £200 and wipe the floor with the blue sound😊 in fact, just buy the non plus version and save a further £70.
Same chip in my SMSL SU-1 dac and I have the same observation: very clear but also dry and a little synthetic. I’m outputting a signal from my Wiim Mini streamer and a cd player through it. I like the dac for modern pop, r&b and hip-hop.
God bless your golden ears, at your age it's a miracle!! Congrats !!!
He's only 32.........😂
I’m so glad I kept my bluesound. Initially I thought I’d only use it with the toslink but then I started using the rca and to my shock it has amazing punchy rhythm unlike more expensive dacs!!
interesting so many ways to connect its crazy
That's my general experience that toslink generally sounds OK but coaxial optical tends to sound way superior on most units. @stereoreviewx
So the 'Blue sound' sounds better. Allows you to relax and thoroughly enjoy the music rather than constantly notice the hifi. That's what it' should be all about... Regardless of price. Great review.
That comes as a shock to me. The internet crowd is celebrating the Wiim Pro and backing that up with measurements. The Bluesound Node doesn't get any love and the measurements aren't as good as the Wiim's. I was even told to "upgrade" my Bluesound with a Wiim! I bought the Bluesound Node (2021) for the HDMI eARC and Sub out features in addition to streaming. Even streamers costing thousands aren't as featured.
I used streaming services for a few years, really good way of finding new music. But after spending 20 quid a month for 2 years, I don't own any albums. If I can no longer afford the service - no more tunes. Now I buy a new album every month or two. The artist gets paid a decent amount and I own it for life)
fair point
Yes I use streaming as a convenient tool to find new or hard to find
Music but then seek out hard copies on CD or vinyl.
I would look forward to more headphone based videos.
Better quality digital equipment does sound more analogue, than cheaper digital, another great video Kelvin 👍
Thanks 👍
great review as always. If I may suggest give a demo on some nice speakers, cheers
I have done that whim seems ever more detailed but defo didn't like it
funny too much detail wasn't better?
absolutely 😁
@@stereoreviewx
Hello Kelvin. I'm not surprised that you can clearly see the subtle (or not so subtle) difference in streamers, because you know what sounds good (natural sound). All streamers basically act as a computer and all must have an integrated DAC. The sound differences you hear comes from the different DACs in streamers. The technology in DAC chips have improved a ton since the harsh (often call "digital") sounding CD players in the 80's. However, the DAC chip is the least relevant player in ultimate sound quality. Many $300 (or some even less) DACs typically use the exact same (cutting edge) chips as DACs costing 2,3, 4 or more times the money. These DAC chips can be $100 or more on their own. Which doesn't leave much left of the budget to build a proper (clean and enough power) power supply and an analog output stage (the most critical).
What I am getting at is, that the low level (analog) output of the source, which will go through several amplification stages in the pre-amp and power amp, is what you will ultimately hear in your speakers. Most pre-amps and power amps tend to add some color, but no amount of coloration can fix a poor rendition of the artists intent. Most lower end (where the budget must make compromises) amps, pre-amps, DACs, speakers.... are "warmer", which muffles their annoying faults and they should. The worst scenario is when companies try to make their products detailed, without including the necessary expensive parts needed to properly resolve such detail.
I don't know if you are aware that you can use your own DAC with a streamer, but I do know that you would see a big improvement (respectively) if you purchased even a $400- $500 DAC made in China (SMSL or Toping are the best bang for the buck), because the prices for typical streamers don't allow for the budget necessary for a DAC to have the most important components (power supply and analog output stage) incorporated.
Digital files are very convenient, but in the end we can only hear music in analog. Thus why it is so important to put a clean neutral output into the preamp, which will carry on down the analog line to your speakers.
You claimed in a video that the power amp is the "biggest player" and also should be the base to build around it. I totally agree that the power amp should be the base to build around it. However, I had to change my views over the past few years in regards to the amp being the biggest player. I realize now that everything (DAC or source, preamp, amp, speakers and even room problems) matters equally, because the prior 3 should let the music flow unhindered and the latter 2 will (or not) resolve what they are given.
Sorry for the long parenthetical explanations, but there are so many caveats to mention, regarding sound quality and the plethora of necessary compromises in audio. For instance, class A amps sound way better than class D, but class D is most efficient and class A amps are heaters. "Warmer" components are more forgiving, but they sacrifice the "magic". Nobody wants to listen to music they find offensive and people have different degrees of what offends them. These are the things people are arguing about. Everyone wants detail and silky smoothness, but that comes at a compromise as well (money). Every amp and preamp I bought in the past 10 years were used, because that is where the best value is. All of my more expensive DACs and speakers were bought new (on sale), because it made more sense. A lot has changed in DACs and speaker technology over the past few decades, which drastically adds to sound quality. The (rather simple) class A and AB analog circuits for preamps and amps were mostly perfected in the 70's. Unfortunately, they didn't have the quality of electronics components of which were available in the 90's and later.
hey thanks for your input the only thing I would lie to add or clarify is the pre /power amp question .
which I would say has a general answer but also some exceptions .
sometimes I think the pre amp is talking louder and sometimes the other way round .(power amp)
very hard to nail this down using technical reasons .
my mind I think has changed over time or when I try a new set up .?
@@stereoreviewx I think technical reasons can only help people to narrow down their best options in finding synergistic components for their systems.
Ultimately, listening tests will be the arbitrator. However, the more we know about the technical side, the more we can glean from comparing separate components in the chain. Everything happening upstream will have an effect on everything downstream.
Ultimately, everything in the chain is equally important, due to the logic of, "the weakest link". If I had to pick one component, it would be the preamp, because it seems to be the most difficult for manufacturers to get right.
I use my lg tv for streaming with an external dac. It down samples to 48 hz. But so easy to use.
This is a DAC shootout, not so much a streamer shootout. But, I understand what is going on, not all folks have outboard DACs. I kept my WiiM, sold the Node. I use an external DAC.
In addition to being a DAC shootout, it's also a bit-rate, bit-depth, sample-rate and data-transfer shootout.
Digital music is a minefield for many, and in my experiance huge gains in quality of musical output can be gained by having a good understanding of the nature of digital files, streaming limitations, bytes of data and codecs.
@@shaneonpole So true, I have went to extremes to clean up the electricity and data filtering. Including adding fibre into the mix. The WiiM is powered by a linear power supply too.
Also, streaming any digital music file wirelessly using either WiFi or Bluetooth will ALWAYS cause a loss of fidelity - simple loss of "bits or bytes of data" due to the data-speed-limitations and data-bandwidth-limitations of these wireless-transfer mechanisms. Bluetooth is particularly bad at causing a loss of fidelity in music.
@@shaneonpoleWireless is NOT lossy and has more than enough bandwidth for music!
@@steven2809 A quick google and you'll discover that Wireless and WiFi is Lossy...you can't get lossless over WiFi - its Physics.
'That Neil Young song, the famous one'🙃
I'm a bluesound node n130 and it's really present experience. It's definitely sound diffrent when using rca and old amp and optical with my Technics Su g700 mk2 which has better dac in it . With optical sound stage is huge and there is tons of details. With rca you get very much vinyl like experience and sometimes I check songs back ro back on my denon dp-47f with Hana ml cart and Aurorasound vida prima phono and yes in my opinion vinyl sound better but Bluesound Node gose lower in bass for sure . It's a good machines. I was thinking about eversolo 6 but for now I will stay with Bluesound Node
Thank you for your comment. It was really helpful for me. I have the same integrated amplifier and have been going back and forth on if I should add the n130 or node x to it.
I use Dragonfly red, I like the sound but no streaming just wires from the notebook or ipad )) Would like to have BLUESOUND now but it takes some savings )
Good stuff, cheers
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi Kevin how do you compare these with playing cd players ?
Thanks for your response
Steamers are great if your tight for space but I do prefer CDs or vinyl but CDs and vinyl collections take a lot of the space
It really comes down to the upgrade path. If you plan on upgrading to an external dac then the difference in the devices comes down to the software interface (both are bit perfect) so any audio advantage the bluesound has would be wasted.
Honest as ever. I've had both...can see what you say. But...Wiim + JSD Atom DAC (for me) much more enjoyable than Bluenote. Much warmer, fuller...natural. The Bluesound (to me) sounds much harder and etched, but I find expensive Chord Electronics the same. So it's personal (as ever).
Well said. I even found AirPort Express straight to my Amp’s internal dac to sound more pleasing than the node. I also have three chord dacs - they are all battery powered and what I found interesting was that need an hour to warm up before they sound smooth and less etched! I think that’s very annoying nobody mentions it. If you ever get the mojo2, put it in your pocket (unless you’re in a warm country) and let it get hot for 10 mins and then it will sound good.
Don't yet know whether to go to streamers, i do enjoy your reviews however, mainly classic stuff. I'd like to hear a review by you of an Arcam CD92, if ever you get the chance.
Noted!
Cheers, as always, a very good review - why? - as it goes right from your...soul (was looking for a good expression of...) yeah, honest soul and vast experience - this is a critical mass I think. But...have you ever tried (just for yourself) a blind test of the equipment - I mean a "sight unseen' test to prove your previous experience...?/? cheers
was thinking of making a video like that quite tricky to fit though
Hi Kelvin very interesting video. I won’t be getting a streamer any time soon. I will be sticking to CD’s which sound superior and my Nakamichi cassette deck which sounds fantastic!
Sounds good!
Was the music listened to wirelessly or via a physically wired-connection?...that alone will make a significant difference in quality of sound.
What streaming service was listened to...Spotify, Qobuz etc., as the streaming service will also have music at different quality (bit-rate, depth, 192/24 kHz or Lossy-MP3).
Yeah, it was TIDAL and connected manually
I've learned a new word today "Turntabley" haha.
KELVIN...love your content! If you really want to test your tweeters try the song...TANZEM by POLE... You'll have never heard your speakers make those sounds...i promise... probs not to your taste but you'll definitely add to your list of staple hifi auditioning songs!
At first, I thought WTF, then it got strangely enjoyable
Thanks
Is he reviewing the analog or digital out? Not sure if this is a DAC review or a digital transport review
That's really the glaring problem here. He's comparing apples with oranges. I usually respect Kelvin's reviewing, but this one is very seriously flawed.
I have the WIIM Pro (not plus) I only use it with the digital output to a separate DAC. I think you used the WIIM app to listen. I never use it because it has the character you describe. I always use the chromecast functionality in my streaming app (Qobuz). It sounds much better with Chromecast (or other methods not the WIIM app Logitech Media Server or UPNP). Also I use a IFI iPower X power supply with it. It improves the sound significantly. (I have it hooked op to a Sansui 331 with Mission 700 Leading Edge speakers)
Your setup is similar to mine (I'm having an amp showdown between the Sansui 331 and a Marantz 2215 - but that's another story!) I'm interested in your comment about getting better sound via the Qobuz app/ Chromecast v the Wiim app- is that with the Wiim on the fixed volume or variable setting?
@@normanswift5048Everything on fixed volume. I do the sound level with the Sansui. I also like the sound from the optical output better than that of the Coaxial. Never used the analog out.
I can't help it but the WIIM Pro Plus sounds to me like something you might buy at the chemists to keep you going.
Have you compared the streamers through speakers please ? If so which ones ? Presumably the differences would be smaller ?
Yeah, I did compare through my Rogers LS35 A’s
The biggest difference that doesn’t show up on the headphones is more detailed kind of midbass sound from the whim,
But it’s not low base
Hi Kelvin, Glad to see you back. Can you take a question?
Try me
Can you tell me what your view is on DACS? Do you use external DAC's on anything? I was watching your videos on CD players and was thinking if you put a DAC on them I imagine you would improve the sound even more. I have a Yamaha CDR-D651 CD Recorder from about 2000/2001 - Records great but sound is thin when playing CD's and not that good and noticed the difference straight away after adding a DAC the other day. (SMSL Sanskrit 10th MK2) So much richer and distinctive the sound became. I have them on just about everything now! They really bring the sound to life! @@stereoreviewx
i agree with you, the WiiM is crap ;) finally an honest review that wasn't paid for $$$
Interesting! So what about cheap stuff like Chromecast Audio?
I found the cheap stuff sounds more warm. AirPort Express 2 is incredibly warm and smooth
get yourself a conditioner. Will help a lot. you can pick up the old BT telephone mains conditions they have an isolation transformer in them, I've seen them a few years ago for about 25£ on the e-auction.
Sound mix could do with a boost
yes, you have to speak into a microphone and I discovered
Kelvin says ‘significantly old, 4-5 years old' and I’m looking across at my Tag McLaren DAC 20 that's about 26 years old. 🤔
None of these streamers will still be working by then as the apps will all be outdated 😂
Streamers don’t have a signature as they just serve or stream ? Or are there DACS involved ?
Hi Kelvin, any reviews of new speakers in the pipeline?
you can find some on my channel
Thanks for the reply Kelvin, by 'pipleline' I meant not yet uploaded?
Hi Kelvin!
Hi
I don't know what this means? Is the content producer here playing back a local file? High resolution 2 x channel?
streaming from tidal
The Bluesound needs a different power supply. There are aftermarket options from a few different companies that just clip inside without any soldering.
Good review.
Thanks for the info!
the only sonic differences that can be compared are between the dacs inside the streamers, not the streamer themselves, streamers deliver bits, either they do, or they do not. There is no difference in them what so ever.
well everything makes a difference even sockets
@@stereoreviewx yes absolutely, even reviewers selling products with confusing descriptions and title can make a difference, even a huge difference, but not a sonic one. Only in people's wallet. Such a beautiful job
Any Plex support?
The wiim is a great transport, it has a decent dac, as does the bluesound, but put the wiim through a good dac and its hard to beat, price to performance.
thanks will investigate
Yes, I bought a Mojo for a hundred quid and use that as a desktop dac. The Wiim sounds great through that, gives vocals back their warmth.
Odd video. Comparing a node that was superseded in 2021 with a brand new wiim. Not clear how the streamers were connected and what DACs were used?
The Bluetooth on my phone sounds better than my blusound node 2. Bought a stupid expensive power supply board from poland and a power supplu in hopes of magically improvement..... my phone still sounds batter 😂
I think this is misleading. It's not the streaming function that makes a difference as much as the internal DACs on these devices. The Bluesound has a better one, as you would expect when it costs twice as much as the WiiM. Hook a WiiM Pro and an external DAC of some quality together for the same price as the Node and I would bet that combination would top the Bluesound.
I started using my BlueSound streamer with an i-fi DAC, which has worked out well. But I do believe the streamers matters, in the way not all CD transports sound the same.
The Node 2i has a PCM5242 chip, the WIIM pro plus a AK4493s. The latter is far superior to the old Ti-chip in the Bluesound. In any case I think the problem is in the software, since I get a distinctly better sound not using the WIIM app.
@@D1N02 I dunno. I has the Node 2 and now have a WiiM Pro and an SMSL D6s. The latter is far better than the Bluesound and I am using the WiiM app and Tidal. I bought it because the Node died on me -- a frequent complaint from owners.
@@jamesdante2335the idea that CD transports sound different is hardly accepted as fact.
@@michaelblumfield3933 the fact that the earth isn't flat but spherical is also doubted by a group of people.
Wiim wins on all fronts. Blusound, a waste of money.
So, I assume U were using the ‘Built In’ DAC’s direct to the Amps then ? Neither of which are that Great ! ! … The Pro Plus is a New model using the ESS DAC Chip … Which are known for their more ‘Trebley’ detailed sound … Usually at the expense of the Mids / Bass … Try using them as just ‘Transports’ with external DAC’s .. ie - U can then ‘Tune the Sound’ to your liking with said DAC’s …. The $80 SMSL SU-1 is Superb for what it cost’s …. It even has very Fast / Low Bass. For ‘what it cost’s’ … Just BUY ONE and have a listen. Were you using the Streamers via Ethernet or over the Wi-Fi ? ? … BTW, the Node ‘2i’ is now 2 generations behind the ‘current’ model … Even the ‘older’ NODE ( Mk3 ) is a huge upgrade over the 2i. Yes, a used 2i will be slightly cheaper than the Pro Plus, however, the Mk3 or even newer Node X will ( Should ? ) Blow Away the Wiim Pro Plus.
Now, having said all that, the Current Best Bang for Buck Streamer under 500 Notes is the just released Cambridge Audio MXN10. Take a look. The APP is great too. ( Yes, I bought one ) Oh, and it’s British and it has a Full ‘Metal’ Case & Face Plate … So, ‘Take That’ Bluesound. No Cheapo 'plastic' Here ! ? Nice video as always. ATB & Happy Listening.
Funny you mention the SMSL SU-1 since it has the same dac chip as the WiiM pro plus. SMSL has a better implementation, but it shouldn't make a massive difference. There is just something wrong with the tuning of the playback using the WIIM app.
Yep, It's all about the 'Implementation' of the DAC Chip .... ie - The Power Supply and the Analogue 'Output Stage' designs .... The actual DAC Chip is just a 'Smallish Part' of the Actual 'Sound Quality' ..... Hi-Fi Gear, Eh ! ... Tiz a Never Ending Journey ! ! ! ? ? ? ... ( And a WELL Hammered Credit Card ! ! ) ....
@@Linux_Lucythere are some little budget integrated amps from marantz where they implement the dac section quite well. Marantz pm6005 has a very very warm analogue sounding dac but not very detailed - I guess it’s because it shares the same power supply as the 45W amp and uses an older cirrus logic dac chip. Highly recommend the new 6007 with the akm chip and the same implementation!