@@crazybongiorno7472 After seeing Goyo Guardian and Dark Strike Fighter in the video I thought of those monsters in a combo where Goyo Guardian steals Monsters from the opponent and then Dark Strike Fighter tributes the stolen Monster for Burn Damage.
@@patrickcollantes4588 It's funny because both of those monsters were used in the same show in 5Ds by Officer Trudge and Greiger. Do you think they would team up against Yusei?
Judging from him trying to remember the extra deck and understand synchro summoning at the beginning, this man is gonna go insane the day he's shown a Pendulum Monster.
Its fake dude... do you really think he has the memory of a goldfish? Or that he does not know the basic summoning mechanics of one of the most popular card games, while being a professional card game player himself? It is an act to get more views.
@@zigazdovc6175You are drunk if you think he would go that far to act ignorant to this degree lol. Man is a full time magic player. Why would he bother learning mechanics from a game he has never played beforehand when he already has hands full lmao. Like cmon bro 🤣
@@aether6293XYZ and link are a little more simple since you don't need to have 1st grade maths basic knowledge... With links you could argue you might still have to add up some numbers but that's about it pretty much
I think Six Sam actually take longer. On MD, you have to individually remove Bushido Counters while I think you can remove multiple Spell Counters from the Endymion family.
@@ThatOneWeirdFlex I think you have to remove spell counters individually as well, the only time you don’t is if you’re using the field spell to loan counters for certain pendulum effects. It’s lowkey important so i don’t mind
Same, I just used to be a hardcore Hearthstone (and Runeterra for a while) player and like card game design. because of this videos I keep getting tempted to play Magic. Zero temptation to play YGO, although it's interesting to learn about its craziness lol
Who wants to take bets on whether they do Links before Pendulums just because Pendulums are so confusing that it's literally easier to ramp up from Links to Pendulums (especially because of FU ED PS mechanics under MR4(.5))
Fun fact about Goyo Guardian, its errata has nothing to do with it coming back, in fact, it was legal in the TCG for about a year before the OCG decided to errata it to remove it from their banlist, and Konami (TCG) later mentioned in their blog post that the errata to require an earth tuner was made purely to match the other Goyo cards that were being released at the time, which all required an earth tuner
And yet people STILL blame Konami TCG and say "it only got unbanned in the TCG AFTER it was errata'd", which...is NOT true. At all. Cause yes, we had the card UNLIMITED in the TCG by the time the OCG FINALLY got around to unbanning the card, which is when they slapped the earth tuner errata on it and basically made the card unplayable at that point (when the card was already unplayable here in the TCG, hence why it was off the list entirely)
Props to the editor for including the magic cards on screen, nice added polish! I said the same for your collabs on CBGs channel but it bears repeating.
It wasn't really the synchros that did it. It was a monster that's unaffected by effects with huge stats and extra effects on top of that being bad that did it.
This is a symptom of YGO being an eternal format as well as the fact that the game in the beginning was already insane by card game standards due to the non-traditional aspects it had(i.e. no resource system, lack of mechanics to slow the game down etc.). The game is also ripped out the pages of a manga where it was only suppose to have a single arc. Because of all these things the power creep is completely insane in comparison to other card games.
Yugioh being resourceless is the biggest thing other top tcgs don’t have, being pokemon heartstone and mtg all having a resource system. When tcgs do have no resources they tend to not make it as good as yugioh. What im trying to say is its so hard for a player from another tcg that has a resource system to understand how the card game works runs functions without a resource
Magic players: "OMG You can cast this card from outside your deck if your deck meets the conditions? Companion is broken!" Yu-Gi-Oh players: "First time?"
tbf og companions you only had to meet the deck construction once the game started you had no shenanigans to go through. it was basically if your deck meets x condition draw an extra card at the beginning of the game but better because it was not a random card.
@@deesoff yes but if the side deck card had no requirements to be summoned other than meeting the construction criteria. Imagine a fusion monster but that doesn't require any fusion material if you have only monsters with even levels in your deck
@@ShadowWalker-ng1it so starting the game with Spright Elf on my board? Nice, but that wouldn't be broken. You'd have to get to the level of starting the game with Baronne on the board for it to be broken (free big bad boss monster with a walking negate), but then the opponent would be doing something similar, so, like, whatever? Seems meh.
Im sure its been said before, but nothing makes me happier than the whole tcg collaborative universe. Theres love from all sides and all communities, that i see under every collab video on all these channels. But most of all its awesome to see you and other creators sharing their passions with people who have no clue what theyre looking at. Its always hilarious content and you keep changing and tweaking the formula to keep each video fresh. I wont ever stop watching these, and I probably wont play Yugioh either
It was so funny watching him grapple with the tribute concept when he was the one explaining how you’d need to look to edge cases in order to remove it.
Did anyone even mention that it can be destroyed by battle? Felt like that was just completely glossed over, and probably would've saved some sanity points
One thing that can be easy to overlook with the early synchro monsters is how there was a notable accessibility gap between level 8s and level 7s and below. Even normal summoning aside, level 4 and lower monsters were largely easier to summon than the 5 and higher ones, but good level 4 tuners were few and far between, so the easy 4+4 to make level 8 synchros was rarely an option.
That's my thought exactly, he didn't think of Diabolic edict for the enemy's progenitus / thorn. Wouldn't be cost tho, as it is an effect unlike a Lava Golem.
@@rangingaway92 Edicts have similar wording as Evenly Matched: "Target player sacrifices a creature of their choice" and "You can make your opponent banish cards from their field face-down so they control the same number of cards as you do"
Protection in magic is rather unintuitive to me. Because it doesn't protect against board-wipes, whereas from the word itself, I feel like it should. Even more if it's worded as "Protection from everything". "Protection from [quality] (This can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, enchanted, or equipped by anything [quality].)" ^ The definition of mtg's protection. The thing can still be affected by card effects that don't do those things specifically (like those that don't target the card directly). For Blackwing Full Armor Master, the text is 100% true to what it means. "Unaffected by other cards' effects" is as true as it can be in YGO. It's just there exist other things to out the card. 1: Battling the card. 2: Using "cost" to remove the card (Like Lava Golem, but there are other ways to do this now in modern YGO standard). Underworld Goddess of the Closed World.
@@overcoldicecurrent yugiog is one card combos and upwards of 20+ handtraps. Watch the recent Farfa Highlights video where he talks about Pak playing 23 handtraps in a 42 card deck and the state of the game.
@@overcoldice you're definitely overthinking the protection in MtG. It's basically "cant be targeted and can't be blocked." Its that simple. The fact that board wipes dont target is the very reason they take the protected card down. The reason its balanced is because to board wipe is to also destroy your own board. Unless you have an asymmetrical board wipe, but you usually have to build pretty consistently for that. Its like if you have bullet proof armor but the entire battlefield is just getting sprayed with endless bullets for a moment. That armor will not mean much vs all that power. Building and MtG deck is preparing for the worst and having good cost to value ratios. If the only thing your card, and subsequently your deck, has going for it is that its big and has protection, thats not a good game plan at all.
58:55 AM I STUPID and just the momentary comedic pause was just gold hahahaha. you both need to never stop with this series. it's just too good and the two of you have amazing comedic chemistry
I don't think you eased him into the summoning mechanics like LSV. Then again, I mean... he does it to himself with those things like Dingus Egg and power nine prices. Throw him in the deep end!
I feel like he spent too long on old school content, he is completely unprepared for anything nearing mid synchro era because he has been fed real basic monsters and effects
Nah Snake Eye was the issue. Baronne is a fine designed card, the TCG just didn't had the balls to hit SE so rarity collection cards had to get executed instead...
Then u a newer player I play then I was 15 in high school and only went to locals n my school had a club for games n tournament it was fun but I had the card
I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh since 8th grade in 2003 outside the orchestra practice rooms. I don't play or follow any card games and have no clue who either of these guys are. However, this series is really awesome and I have been checking the uploads out all week. Sometimes the YT algorithm just gets it right! Thanks for the work you two have done!
Lol. Yu-Gi-Oh! 2. CGB, Yu-Gi-Oh! 2 was the *introduction* of Synchro monsters, those first monsters Cimo showed you: Stardust, Goyo Guardian, Thought Ruler Archfiend and a few others that Cimo didn’t show you in this video. We’re on like Yu-Gi-Oh! 6. Six years ago might have been like still in Yu-Gi-Oh! 5, so basically Cimo skipped Yu-Gi-Oh! 3 and 4 to show you a card that failed to salvage a deck that hasn’t been good since Yu-Gi-Oh! 2 (where it was at the time, very very good).
What's your method of counting where we're on 6th while Synchros are introduced at 2th? If we use Master Rules, the 2 make sense, but we'd be on 5 (MR4 2020 Revision) and if you use the anime series, we'd be on 6th (Master Duel anime wise) but Synchros were introduced at 3rd.
@@ItsPForPea OG, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, LINK, Power of the Elements. If we also count the original OCG rules before the expert rules, we would be on 7, but I wasn’t thinking about that when I wrote my comment originally.
I have to imagine it's major game revisions (MR or not) 1: OG Yugioh 2: Synchros 3: XYZs 4: Pendulums 5: Links (With original EMZ Rules) 6: Now (Revised EMZ Rules)
Nah. Synchro era still felt like Yugioh. Even the XYZ era still felt and played like the same game. Its when we got to Pendulums did things take a turn and then we were just playing a different game by Mastery Rule 4 and Link monsters. Id say Yu-Gi-Oh 2 happend with the additions of Link monsters.
EXTRA CONTEXT FOR CGB: I might start doing this on future videos to add context on a card I think Magic players might find useful for evaluating it, since I play both games. I've done my best not to spoil it by talking about other cards you might be shown in the future. Synchro summoning in general: So, Synchro monsters, and the Extra Deck in general, could probably best be thought of as a 15 card Companion Zone or Command Zone. Except... with those, you have deck building restrictions. And we don't have those. There is no Extra Deck monster in the game that says you cannot have a monster of another type or attribute in your 40-60 card Main Deck. However, unlike WotC, who realized after Ikoria that players having access to one card in every single game is an undesireable spike of power "creep", Konami's design team instead just leaned into it. And thus began the 16 year long arms race of power creep that produced Yugioh 2, as you called it. Synchro monsters were... essentially, the beginning of this arms race. (Vanishingly few fusion monsters beforehand had this impact. Yugioh players, don't @ me.) Stardust Dragon: One important note is that this was the Ace monster of the protagonist of the 3rd main Yugioh anime series. It was game-warpingly powerful, but sentiment played a role in this card never being hit. Yes, it *was* rapidly kept in check by cards that like Goyo Guardian and Brionac (discussed below), but like I said, it's an arms race. Designers just leaned into it. Even when those two cards got banned, the game had pivoted such that players noe often prioritize having access to non-destructive removal always on hand (usually in the Extra Deck) to deal with cards *like* Stardust, which is why this card no longer sees much play. Goyo Guardian: The biggest issue with this card is the combination of it being merely 6 stars and being 2800 attack. I know Cimo said that the ease of summoning monsters doesn't matter, but that is only partly the case. *At the time*, Goyo Guardian was usually a card you could summon on your 2nd turn (occasionally first), whereas Stardust being level 8 meant that it was usually only coming out turns 3 or later. Again, there were exceptions, but most Tuner's at the time were less than level 4, so it was hard to add up to level 8 back then. Now, it is no problem. Notably, when they removed this card from the banlist, they errataed it to require an Earth tuner. This was probably unnecessary at the time, as there was a lot of available counterplay to it. But the card no longer sees any play because of this. Thought Ruler Archfiend: The psychic deck at this time largely revolved around paying life points for cost to activate effects, and then using other effects to gain life points back. Nowadays, psychic monsters don't tend to care about that *as* much. But it was the main theme at the time. But with that said, in non-psychic decks, the destruction protection for anything offered by Stardust made it a far better level 8 Synchro to make than Thought Ruler's targeting protection for itself (in most situations). So it was largely fine. Dark Strike Fighter: While this card is not good enough for mainstream play, it is still used in FTK's to this day. This is because, while the highest level *printed* on a card is 12, there are effects that modify levels of cards, and some combos can increase a card's levels to absurd degrees. Brionic, Dragon of the Ice Barrier: You hit the nail right on the head for this one. The big reason it got banned is because it could bounce your own cards. It is genuinely impressive that you saw it so fast as *most* non-yugioh players who evaluate this card do not catch this. Congratulate yourself! It's not just because of ETB triggers however. It's also because it can get around some "once per turn" clauses on card effects. According to the game mechanics, if a card leaves the field and is resummoned somehow (or flipped face down and then back face up), it counts as a new instance of that card. And so if a card merely says something like "once per turn, activate this effect", that only counts for that instance of the card, and not every other time you summon it. (Generally, this is because it is a headache otherwise to keep track of single copies of a card in case they enter a private information zone like the hand or deck.) There are cards that still restrict you with what we colloquially call a "hard once per turn", whereas what I described above is a soft once per turn (personally, I dislike these terms and think they are unclear, but it isn't up to me). A hard once per turn will instead say something like. "You can only activate this effect of [card name here] once per turn" (the difference being that it references the name of the card). Naturia Beast: A lot of people *want* this card to be banned, for the record, because it is not once per turn. But you actually kinda were correct that this card remains legal partly to preserve the identity of this deck. You were correct about the mill effect being a good thing though. Not only does another Naturia synchro monster need to banish cards from the Yard to activate *its* effects, but there are Naturia cards that either recycle from the graveyard or that *activate* when sent there. One of the ways that they hit the deck on the banlist was actually by restricting the best card that you could mill (which tutors for any Naturia card when sent to the grave) to one copy per deck, in part so that the mills off of Naturia Beast are less likely to benefit you. (Ftr, other decks *could* summon or cheat out this card. But lately, there have been better things to cheat out that don't *just* negate spells, so... it's low priority to hit. Blackwing Full Armor Master: Boy, he sure threw you into the deep end with this one... Welcome to Yugioh 2? So, some context, Blackwing was a very popular deck in the early 2010s. It was an aggro deck and was very combat based. However, as the game has become more and more centered around first turn combos (which has no combat step), the Blackwing deck has suffered as a result. Traditional aggro decks like that have had essentially no place in the meta in years. So this card was eventually thrown as a bone to the Blackwing players as something they can do turn one since their entire gameplan is irrelevant now. There are other things the deck also does if they are entirely left uninterrupted, but I won't say on the off chance that Cimo or someone else shows them to you. (And like with Naturia Beast, there were a handful of other decks that would splash a Blackwing tuner to play this card, but it wasn't too consistent, so it didn't catch on.) But yes, in the game now, we have certain cards that are... essentially... I don't want to say they are Force of Will as that hits everything, but imagine there was a cycle of cards that are like Annul, Dispel, Envelop, Essence Scatter... you know, cards that negate specific *kinds* of effects. They all essentially discard themselves for cost to negate an effect of a specific kind. We call them "handtraps", because they play like the trap cards from early in the game. Basically every deck is about 15%-55% handtraps, depending on how fast the format is, so that you almost always have one in your starting hand of 5 cards. Some have been hit, some haven't. I don't want to say more as it might spoil future videos. Baronne de Fleur: So... this was actually a controversial ban. A lot of people whine about because it being generic meant that lots of bad old decks could resort to using Baronne because their deck otherwise lacked a viable win condition to keep up with the modern game (despite the fact that meta decks could summon her just as easily, if not moreso). I don't want to say how the ban should properly be interpreted as it requires talking about other cards and possibly spoiling you.
That wouldn’t be fun though. Mtg has “hand traps” but in the sense you literally rip cards from your opponent’s hand like what yugioh tried to do. He wouldn’t be surprised or even phased if i had to guess only maybe how hand traps are used differently in yugioh over mtg
I’d love to see him evaluate the Egyptian Gods as individual archetypes since I don’t think he has the context of the anime to skew his perspective, and almost any kind of Exodia deck, just to see his reaction to the Exodia win condition. I’m also curious if he’d look at Exodia’s effect and put it together that that’s a good part of the reason Yugioh has such a restriction on draw power.
Armor master for magic players - you can force your opponent to sacrifice an indestructible creature, a shroud creature, protection creature etc. That's what this is but as another games wording/mechanics.
@@OyVeey I'd say Unaffected trumping board wipes (including non-destruction ones like Cyclonic Rift or Farewell) is a bigger difference, since you could always choose to not attack with Full Armor Master if you're paranoid about getting double blocked.
"and it never saw play since." Except in the master duel world championship where a SHS deck brought out dark strike fighter plus galaxy queen's light to ftk the opponent.
the secret is that blackwings are not much different from how you remember them in the 5ds era full armor master may be a crazy card, but the trade off is that you're playing an edison format deck whose most recent support is laser-focused on letting you ... play _specifically_ black-winged dragon. which means the part of the deck that gets you to full armor master is the edison format cards and, like, a handful of the manga and arc-v blackwings that actually get you to your wincon of nib token turbo
I think the biggest thing for me is that it doesn't do anything on your opponents turn. It just sits there and does stuff if it makes it back to your turn, but 90% of the time your opponent can just find a way to out it before that.
@kinosnake exactly. It doesn't let you do anything to it sure but WHY would you want to do something to it when you can make a board with no resistance with it on the board
Correction: Blackwing Full Armor Master in a blackwing deck costs very little resources. It is just ONE synchro out of 4-5 on the Blackwing end board, it is definitely not the sole purpose of the deck. The end board usually has 2 Black-winged Assault Dragons (which is one win con of the deck) + a omninegate from Hot Red Dragon Archfiend Abyss + Dis Pater; or you can just Kali Yuga the opponent while having 2-3 level 10 synchros as follow-up.
Yeah, the issue with Blackwing Full Armor is just generally that it doesn't actually do much and outing a 3000 in battle is trivially easy for most decks nowadays, not that it's taking all your resources to get out in a Blackwing deck
Do note that Cimo stopped playing the more recent cards so he does lack the context to an up to date Blackwing combo or endboard along with among other things
Well full armor master was the gameplay when cimoo stoped playing the game he probably doesn't remember that they got a new synchro dragon and they have kali yuga lines
I think the most sensical way to explain the Extra Deck to MTG players is that it's a bit like the Command Zone. The cards you choose as your Extra Deck monsters tend to determine what you put in the rest of the deck; if you're building around summoning Shaddoll Construct and Shaddoll Winda you're encouraged to play cards that support Fusion Summoning and *not* to play cards that support Synchro Summoning, similar to how a Blue-Black Commander prevents you from playing Red cards.
I think a big problem is that Cimo didn't explain that one of the actual biggest problems with Full Armor Master is that he's a slow monster. On your opponent's turn, he just sits there and prays they don't have an out or something bigger than him. Going first and ending on a FAM only matters if he survives to the end of the turn, but he's basically a big defense stat until the end of the turn. Baronne, on the other hand, tells your opponent NO and does something. Any card that can deal with both of these cards will deal with them both equally, and any card that deals with Barrone only is either a bad card/rarely worth playing, or Barrone can negate it and protect the rest of her board from it's effect as well, because single target removal is kind of weak unless it's in archetype or does something stupidly strong nowadays.
@LazurBeemz Baronne is fine, it shouldn't be banned. A single negate is not a problem in a format where there are so many boardbreakers that just instant win the game if they resolve, baronne doesn't even work on half of them.
@@LazurBeemz I’m speaking of full armor master. Baronne is handtrap insulation lmao it doesn’t even need to last to the opponent’s battle phase in the first place
If CGB reads this, for Full Armor still being possible to deal with, think of it like using an edict when your opponent has something like Emrakul or Progenitus out. The exact mechanics are a bit different but it comes down to being sacrificed overrides any protection abilities the creature may have.
It's not even being sacrificed overrides protection, it's you as the opponent are being made to apply the effect to your creatures. Evenly Match doesnt "sacrifice" and beats FAM. Destructive Daruma Cannon also beats it. The way to beat "Unaffected by (your opponents [activated]) card effects" is use a card or effect that affects the opponent, rather then the monster/creature
I feel like Pendulum have to be skipped for the sake of understanding "simple" summons 1st, and then Pendulum comes to wrap everything together, just because every other summon mechanic can be done with pendulum.
@@thepurplebox380 Its literally the exact same as synchro summoning but their is no tuner requirement. The only vaguely complicated part is that they need to be summoned into the extra monster zone or somewhere a link monster points.
@@thepurplebox380 put the material listed on it into grave, summon your first Link monster into the Extra Monster Zone. If you want to summon another, it must be to a zone a Link monster points to. A monster's LINK rating is how many materials it can be used for another link summon, so if you want to make a Link 3 monster, you can use a LINK 2 and any other monster, as long as it still follows the material requirement. Doing this sequentially is referred to as "Link climbing"
It's unfortunate, but as a Blackwings player myself, Full Armor Master is just okay. It really needs a fellow synchro friend, or back row support, on the field to do much. Easily beat over or Tributed. 2/5 times you summon it, another Blackwing could've been more optimal.
Since you flunked this one cgb heres some things to keep in mind for why something is banned: Forces a draw, Stops the game or aspect of the game or can be looped (mostly old Yu-Gi-Oh). Its too easy to summon + game winning powerful. (Basically this episode concerning generics) It cant be destroyed in "any" way. Draws 2 or more cards.
Baronne de Fleur would be the nastiest azorius control card if there was anything mechanincally similar in MTG. Like Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant but turned up to 11.
In case CGB reads this: "Unaffected by other card's effects" does exactly what you think it does. The reason something like lava golem can still remove it is because it basically has the text "as an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice two creatures an opponent controls". So it's a cost not an effect.
That’s a pretty good analogy. There’s some obvious key differences, but it’s the same basic idea. The biggest difference would of course be that Persist puts the -1/-1 counters on the card, which means there is a limit to how many times you can do it. Stardust Dragon is an infinite loop, in and of itself.
His analysis of full armor master is everything I hate about modern yugioh, he got it so right. Listening to him say that "they either took crazy pills and printed this OR they printed 100 cards like this" hit me hard. I'm gonna buy an Edison deck xD
I relate the extra deck to the commander zone (or whatever the area you cast your commander from is actually called) in Commander MTG. They're always accessible, but you need the req's. Although the commander goes back to the commander zone on destruction.
Here’s the thing with Commanders/Companions, though - meeting the requirements for them are done at the deckbuilding stage. Once you enter a game, no matter what you have in your hand, on the field, in your deck, whatever, you will *always* be able to bring it out. Which in some cases, depending on said restriction, means there’s either little or no deckbuilding requirements at all. The only other note is that for Companions you must reveal you have one, and which one it is, at the start of each game, or you can’t bring it out later.
Honestly, the best way to explain Blackwing Full Armor Master to a Magic player would be to equate it to Progenitus. It's a big dude that makes Jimmy really excited and that you you can get out when you build your deck with him as your goal... but the investement to get him our hamstrings you compared to other more straitforward strategies that other non-blackwing archetypes can provide.
Can't wait until CGB learns about XYZ and Links. You might kill him if you show him pendulum summoning. XYZs I like CGB to see. -Shock Master. -Bagooska. Links -Crystron Halqifibrax. -Mekk-Knight Crusadia Avramax. Pends -Performapal Skullcrobat Joker. -Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic. Fusion. - Elder Entity Norden. -Supreme King Dragon Starving Venom.
@@watchm4ker Not really, with modern rules, you can basically ignore everything that was wrong with pends. That and the change to the board, from 5 s/t and pend zone being separate rather than combined. Without the need for Link cards.
I think it was probably worth highlighting one key difference between Full Armor Master and Baronne which is that Full Armor Master doesn't actually interact with your opponent until it loops back to your turn. This means you're giving free rein to your opponent to do whatever setup or combo that's needed to come up with a board state to deal with the Armor Master, which could be as simple as just summoning one really big guy that can hit over it. Baronne is a threat because if she's made turn 1, she will stop your opponent's plays which are trying to hinder your board. The other thing worth flagging is that Blackwing is an older archetype from 10-15y ago which has gotten some legacy support over that time but ultimately is a very weak strategy compared to modern day decks. Full Armor Master is essentially locked to that archetype while modern decks can make use of Baronne on top of their own cards, so her being generic is another huge reason why she's so oppressive.
Give me a few? I'll be delighted to try; my only experience playing Yu-Gi-Oh are the GBA games from 2003ish, so I definitely don't know new cards in the slightest.
A small hint earlier of like "Cards that return extra deck monsters to THE HAND" will actually return them to the extra deck. He gets very focused on destruction being the only form of removal when there's a ton more options of removal of extra deck monsters
To explain the blackwing big monster, imagine that you are not playing the best cards in the game, for the opportunity of this big threat. And even if they do, its still posible to punish(you would need to crash or draw the out) but the best decks have the ability to stop your opponent from reaching that gamestate. So it itself is busted, but is it really worth it to play suboptimally to get to that gamestate? Its an oportunity cost in a way
Cimo might need to give him an explanation about Cost vs Effect vs Game Mechanic. Hello, this is Daruma Cannon, I can interact with cards that are "unaffected" by card effects... with my card effect because I affect the field, not the card.
Glad to see Cimo laughing so much in these videos. They say laughter is the best medicine, and Cimo needs all the help he can get at the moment. Keep on laughing, for both yourself and for us.
@FlareBlossom well, Cimo has been having health issues for a quite while. My statement still stands. He could use the laughs at the time of recording, and he can definitely use them now
yup, at that time after xyz was released fusions were harder to summon with pretty good stats but not many of them had relevant effects compared to xyz that were the easiest to summon with great effects but low stats (e.g the best you getting was pearl with 2600 in a rank4 toolbox deck if not only temp 4-5k if you needed to beat something over) and synchros were somewhere between them in terms their quality in stats and effects and then the pendulum asshole showed up
On top of what Cimo said about other decks making Baronne on top of their other win conditions, Baronne also turned every Synchro deck into "Baronne turbo" because it's usually stronger than the in-archetype boss monster tthey can make. The reanimate effect is way more relevant than Cimo gave it crecits for. The thing it's tagging into is usually something with an on-summon effect that can gain you more card advantage and guarantees an OTK on the 3rd turn if the opponent can't get rid of Baronne.
I agree with CGB on the blackwing being confusing tbh; the premise of it being easy to summon kinda falls apart when you add "it's easy to stop it from hitting the field", but other than that, awesome video as always!
I think a good thing for CGB to know would have been that in Yugioh it's important if a Monster has an "immidiate impact" once it hit the board and that proactive/reactive cards are better than just "good guys" like Blackwing Full Armor Master or super beefy immune type of Monster that are great on their own but doesn't contribute much to your board (except their body) or extend on your game plan. Blackwing Full Armor Master is a nice Monster, but it has nearly no impact once it hits the board. You basically spending like 2-3 cards to play it and say to your opponent "now answer that!". Except attacking and the Monster negate effect, the Monster doesn't do much on it's own. So if your opponent has an out (like a Lava Golem) or can destroy it by battle, you just wasted ressources and achieved nothing. Baronne de Fleur on the other hand is both proactive because it destroys a thing and can negate something (negating everything is way better than just one specific card type), meanwhile still is a 3000ATK body to deal with. It kinda pays itself back in card economy (or can even profite you if it survives) and has an immidate impact on the board, which makes it so much better than Blackwing Full Armor Master.
That's funny Is Blackwing full armor master Got me too I haven't played A few years before that Then I saw that Card and try to get Back into yugioh And realized the game had changed A LOT!
I think something that would be really nice for the guest is to give them a year that the card was released off the rip instead of needing to be prompted for it.
Also can we one day take CGB into Duelingbook or another sim and just, like, show him how chains and are built and resolve so he can have an idea of how this game mechanic works
Hey CGB! Just for more info, in yugioh when it says a "card or effect is activated" in MTG terms it would translate to, "if a spell is cast or an ability is triggered/activated" So stardust as an MTG card would say "Counter target Spell/Triggered or Activated Ability that would destroy a card(s) on the field, if the countered ability is from a card on the field, destroy it" something like that
I am sad that cimo doesnt know that much about magic, because when cgb was freaking out about "unaffected by card effects", cimo could have given the example: if you edict your opponent, they are the one sacrificing the creature. Sacing the creature goes past all kinds of protection, nothing can stop a creature from getting sacrificed. Sure, it can come back with undying and stuff, but it will always die if you sacrifice it. Thats how i see the Lava golem things effect: nice Progenitus buddy, here have a hot rocky boy instead.
I think to try and help CGB understand in magic terms why in the hellscape of modern Yugioh Baronne De Fleur specifically is busted I am going to convert it to a magic card 3 neutral mana 4/4 statline Companion - Your starting library must be exactly 60 cards. textbox: Tap to counter target spell, At upkeep does not untap. You may pay 2 neutral to bounce it back to hand Why would you not play this card in literally every single deck ever? It's just the easiest most convenient way atm to have access to counterspell effect without any real deck building sacrifices. Dies to Baronne would become more meme'd than Dies to Doomblade in weeks.
@@FlareBlossom Because that's superfluous. It's played because it's a counterspell on legs from the companion zone, everything else is just making the poor man's head spin just because.
@@MrEntinen May be fair but I don't really like this philosophy. Ygo players also learnt to read these cards and understand them (and we are not some different species xd) he is a capable human not a child. It's not THAT complicated, I think he just overreact for dramatic effect. Besides I heard that todays MTG cards often have a lot of text too and 2-3 effects. And yes it's not mainly played because of the destroy effect but it makes the card even stronger, it's not negligable.
@@FlareBlossom While all you say is about 98% correct, I feel should clarify. It's not about not being able to read, it's about understanding the context. You play Baronne because it's the easiest omni-negate to play from extra deck. And it is not unique from a long line of banned easiest generic omni-negates from extra deck. For the era of yugioh we're in, understanding this danger of easy OMNIs is a key point of understanding the game. If he writes in his notes "easy omni-negates are good" it would serve him better at rating cards than "big monster with multiple good effect good". While Baronne's destroy effect is strong and useful, you would play it at almost the same playrate if it didn't have it.
The problem here was that Cimo didnt show the Fusion mechanic. The episode was, if im not mistaken, he shown the fusion monster and a card that we used to cheat it out, but he never shown how the mechanic worked, he didnt show poly he didnt show materials. I guess thats why CGB didn remember fusions... he didnt see it.
Even though he got it right, it was pretty mean to tell CGB to assume all these synchros were relatively easy to summon but then tell him to evaluate Naturia Beast. The only reason NatBeast wasn't banned is because, even to this day, it's still relatively difficult to summon. Sure, something like Rescue Cat can get it out by itself, but that requires running an earth tuner that is effectively a vanilla in your deck. Konami has been very careful about printing earth tuners entirely because of this card, and if it had been generic, it would absolutely have been giga-banned.
Not gone be for long time now he got do few more of these ones then xyz then that so 2 months maybe 3 or longer because cimo gone have to take time off
I think a better way to explain why Lava Golem (and similar effects) go over Blackwing (and similar effects) because paying a cost as part of playing a card or activating an effect is not part of that cards effect (which translates a lot better to an MTG player than just explaining it as game mechanics vs card effects).
In earlier YGO, attributes and types definitely had a lot more playstyle identity, but Konami has cared less about it increasingly as time has passed. Even earlier archetypes and In earlier YGO, DARK and LIGHT monsters were more control and strategy based. Fire was centered around burn. WATER was mostly centered around Umi and swarm tactics. WIND was centered around S/T control. EARTH was more defense focused. Even the early structure decks and archetypes fit these molds. Gravekeepers are GY control. Harpies started as swarm and evolved into S/T control. Volcanics trade battle for burn. Ancient Gears started protect themselves to attack with big NAHMBUR. Dark Worlds and Lightsworn use the graveyard in unconventional ways, controlling the game through effects and setting up a huge payoff for the late game. A lot of these evolved later on to embody other mechanics, like WIND revolving about bouncing cards (Mist Valley, Harpies, Yosenju), DARK/LIGHT revolving around Chaos monsters, EARTH incorporating control (Rock Stun/Naturia). With types, Dragons, Dinosaurs, Warriors, Machines, Beasts, & Beast Warriors are very aggro (Dragon Rulers, Gladiator Beasts, Dinomist, SPYRAL). Psychics focused on banishing and using LP as a main resource (Kozmo, P.U.N.K., Virtual World). Zombies focus on graveyard recursion (Vampires, Eldlich, Vendread). Fiend and Fairies tend focus on control (Lair of Darkness, Dark World, Counter Fairies, Labrynth). Plants and Insects were about strength in numbers (Naturia, Plant Synchro, Beetroopers, Battlewasps). The game has pretty much evolved past it all, focusing more on archetype and themes having their own mechanics and centered around summoning methods, but the DNA is still there.
Ive been playing magic for 8 years, yugioh for qbout 20, both semi-competetively, kind of switching back and forth depending on the formats. One of the most annoying things i see in other magic players is them sort of silently agreeing with eachother to lie about the complexity and the speed of magic when they hear about yugioh. Vintage and legacy is essentially a less skilled version of yugioh (to be fair, the game didnt design itself around these types of formats and you have so many other better options so it absolutely makes sense) and the like that thing where magic players ALWAYS gaslight themselves when they hear about yugiohs different summoning mechanics.. lmao like bro, hows into the dungeon working for you? Storm is SOOO uncomplicated. How about these 300 different keywords lmao. The only issue is you kind of have to know like these 5 different mechanics things from the start in yugioh instead of building a deck around just one of them in magic
The thing is, no one plays vintage and legacy unless they're collectors or have MONEY. The different summonings i agree aren't very hard to understand but keep in mind CGB probably only hears about yugioh once every 1-2 weeks. And honestly the keywords aren't even that hard, storm is keeping track of spells played, dungeon is literally just saga's but niche. They say it best in the end, Yugioh has bad complexity creep, mtg is just getting out of some real bad powercreep
@ZackSparks yea, and it's completely understandable that vintage and legacy are like that because the game kind of just allows those formats to exist, it's not built around them like yugioh is. This post was mostly just out of frustration over the years of hearing the magic players id interact with kind of calling out yugioh for things that exist in magic and being flabbergasted about them. And the keywords aren't that complicated, but really the extra deck is SUPER simple as well. Like I don't think the summoning mechanics are even a little bit of a problem but that's sort of a talking point for other mtg players. I think the thing that makes yugioh "too complicated" is really more that you have to memorize the combos and it creates a bit of a solitaire feeling. But this was just a built up frustration that when you're talking about tcgs to mtg players it feels like many of them are already geared on the ygo hate-train and the points that are brought up (in my opinion) are invalid and exist in magic in a similar capacity. Magic gets away with it because they have so many alternative formats (which ygo desperately needs. Ygo needs an official commander-esque format for example)
I guess the reason your average MTG player doesn't remember those completely insane play patterns is that they aren't common at all. Vintage is a niche format, and Legacy almost as much; while people do play with proxies, they just aren't the most common ways of playing. CEDH is more common than them, but still a small format, and the decks are so entirely defined by their commanders that you just know what this or that deck does. It's true that MTG makes up for the lack of complicated cast mechanics by having a long list of complicated keywords, though. But it's a common joke that most of us just don't _remember_ most of those old keywords and rely on reminder text - at the time of writing, the rules list 236 keywords (60 keyword actions and 176 keyword abilities), and I don't know anyone who remembers them all. On the other hand, in terms of speed, fully eternal formats are definitely on par with Yu-Gi-Oh. I've seen many a CEDH game end on turn 2, and turn 1 isn't completely unheard of. Vintage, for the approximately four people who play it, tends to have many turn 1 and turn 2 wins. It's just that most players don't play that way.
![Was Lumis/Umbra About To Defeat Yugi/Kaiba? [Double Duel]](/img/n.gif)
CGB: Does that mean that I am a master Duelist?
Cimo: Does it say anywhere that you're not?
the comment section usually.
Does it say anywhere that he _is?_
@@crazybongiorno7472 After seeing Goyo Guardian and Dark Strike Fighter in the video I thought of those monsters in a combo where Goyo Guardian steals Monsters from the opponent and then Dark Strike Fighter tributes the stolen Monster for Burn Damage.
@@leebulger7112 This sounds like a degenerate combo that a villain duo from the anime would come up with.
@@patrickcollantes4588 It's funny because both of those monsters were used in the same show in 5Ds by Officer Trudge and Greiger. Do you think they would team up against Yusei?
Judging from him trying to remember the extra deck and understand synchro summoning at the beginning, this man is gonna go insane the day he's shown a Pendulum Monster.
oh no
He'll probably start muttering something about being locked in a room full of Monkeyboards over and over.
I still to this day not understand this specific type at all
Its fake dude... do you really think he has the memory of a goldfish? Or that he does not know the basic summoning mechanics of one of the most popular card games, while being a professional card game player himself? It is an act to get more views.
@@zigazdovc6175You are drunk if you think he would go that far to act ignorant to this degree lol. Man is a full time magic player. Why would he bother learning mechanics from a game he has never played beforehand when he already has hands full lmao.
Like cmon bro 🤣
Reading baronne calmly because "I don't care anymore, I'm dead inside." He is one of us now.
That really was me whenever I saw a Baronne at my local.
full armor master vs exodia who will win?
He will only be one of us once he stops reading the cards :P
@@blueqion9488 nah for real sometimes yugioh feels like a solitaire fight lmao.
"I don't care anymore, I'm dead inside"
Ladies and Gentlemen, we broke him.
And it only took armor master to do it.
Wonder what xyz or link would do the same trick? (any pendulum monster would do it)
Pendulum might shatter his brain to pieces.
@@aether6293XYZ and link are a little more simple since you don't need to have 1st grade maths basic knowledge... With links you could argue you might still have to add up some numbers but that's about it pretty much
@@reiezevan Mind Crush
@@reiezevan Force him to play a game using pepe
"I know how to evaluate counters"
He would discover Endymion and record the longest turn in history collecting counters.
Show him a six Sam combo while at it
while CGB was evaluating Dark Strike Fighter I was just thinking about Six Sam and the possibility to deal infinite damage LOL
Resolving endy is sooo satisfying
I think Six Sam actually take longer. On MD, you have to individually remove Bushido Counters while I think you can remove multiple Spell Counters from the Endymion family.
@@ThatOneWeirdFlex I think you have to remove spell counters individually as well, the only time you don’t is if you’re using the field spell to loan counters for certain pendulum effects. It’s lowkey important so i don’t mind
Don’t play magic
Don’t play yugioh
Can’t stop watching you two.
The Pendulum effect in full motion. Ah poor Blue, he has it coming. 😅
I play both, but have no Magic decks and play exclusively with friends Magic decks. Mainly YGO though.
Are you a HS player ? Or how did you stumble upon the cardgame avengers?
Same, I just used to be a hardcore Hearthstone (and Runeterra for a while) player and like card game design. because of this videos I keep getting tempted to play Magic. Zero temptation to play YGO, although it's interesting to learn about its craziness lol
@@selfselectedRuneterra got very bad very quickly. The problem is they don’t ban or adjust cards the player base complains about.
"Didn't I learn all the summonings?"
Oh my sweet summer child...
Who wants to take bets on whether they do Links before Pendulums just because Pendulums are so confusing that it's literally easier to ramp up from Links to Pendulums (especially because of FU ED PS mechanics under MR4(.5))
Pendulum Summoning is gonna ruin his entire career.
@@fireball1249 Please don't show him Endymion😢
Yeah we just started him off light.
@@hezhang8843 Wait for nirvana high paladin.
CGB discovering the terrifying phenomenon of Konami orbs by looking at Stardust for the first time is so hilarious.
No one show him the Rata video judging the art of the pendulum dragons
*CGB
@@brunoianigro61 I just call him GCB like the burger from McDonald's lmao.
Can't unsee it. From now on to me Stardust Dragon was always canonically female
@@derpro8125Freiza's Dragon Form
When CGB made that joke about Roger Rabbit, I fully expected you to tell him: "Oh there's also a Toon subtype for those, I got you".
Toons stay forgotten 😔
Why not just show him all the weird subtypes? Behold CGB, the might of Gemini!
@@HazeEmry Unfortunately they were absolutely terrible when they first came out. Sad because I loved them
@@brolo7234 you make it sound like they ever got good
Fun fact about Goyo Guardian, its errata has nothing to do with it coming back, in fact, it was legal in the TCG for about a year before the OCG decided to errata it to remove it from their banlist, and Konami (TCG) later mentioned in their blog post that the errata to require an earth tuner was made purely to match the other Goyo cards that were being released at the time, which all required an earth tuner
And yet people STILL blame Konami TCG and say "it only got unbanned in the TCG AFTER it was errata'd", which...is NOT true. At all. Cause yes, we had the card UNLIMITED in the TCG by the time the OCG FINALLY got around to unbanning the card, which is when they slapped the earth tuner errata on it and basically made the card unplayable at that point (when the card was already unplayable here in the TCG, hence why it was off the list entirely)
Props to the editor for including the magic cards on screen, nice added polish!
I said the same for your collabs on CBGs channel but it bears repeating.
I worry for CGB's health when Cimo shows him a pendulum monster if his reaction to synchros is anything to go off
It wasn't really the synchros that did it. It was a monster that's unaffected by effects with huge stats and extra effects on top of that being bad that did it.
This is a symptom of YGO being an eternal format as well as the fact that the game in the beginning was already insane by card game standards due to the non-traditional aspects it had(i.e. no resource system, lack of mechanics to slow the game down etc.). The game is also ripped out the pages of a manga where it was only suppose to have a single arc. Because of all these things the power creep is completely insane in comparison to other card games.
Yugioh being resourceless is the biggest thing other top tcgs don’t have, being pokemon heartstone and mtg all having a resource system. When tcgs do have no resources they tend to not make it as good as yugioh. What im trying to say is its so hard for a player from another tcg that has a resource system to understand how the card game works runs functions without a resource
It has resources though, the monsters themselves.
Magic players: "OMG You can cast this card from outside your deck if your deck meets the conditions? Companion is broken!"
Yu-Gi-Oh players: "First time?"
tbf og companions you only had to meet the deck construction once the game started you had no shenanigans to go through. it was basically if your deck meets x condition draw an extra card at the beginning of the game but better because it was not a random card.
@@ShadowWalker-ng1it So it was basically just the exact same thing as the extra deck in yugioh.
It would be insane in Yu-Gi-Oh. Its automatic +1 card advantage that can't be ashed because you built deck in some way.
@@deesoff yes but if the side deck card had no requirements to be summoned other than meeting the construction criteria. Imagine a fusion monster but that doesn't require any fusion material if you have only monsters with even levels in your deck
@@ShadowWalker-ng1it so starting the game with Spright Elf on my board? Nice, but that wouldn't be broken. You'd have to get to the level of starting the game with Baronne on the board for it to be broken (free big bad boss monster with a walking negate), but then the opponent would be doing something similar, so, like, whatever? Seems meh.
Im sure its been said before, but nothing makes me happier than the whole tcg collaborative universe. Theres love from all sides and all communities, that i see under every collab video on all these channels. But most of all its awesome to see you and other creators sharing their passions with people who have no clue what theyre looking at. Its always hilarious content and you keep changing and tweaking the formula to keep each video fresh. I wont ever stop watching these, and I probably wont play Yugioh either
It's an absolute travesty that this video didn't include Trishula.
It can't think of any synchro more iconic than banish dragon.
Ah yes, the Infernity boss monster.
One of my favourite cards to this day!
@@dudono1744 I am haunted by their turn 1 three trisula summons to this day
I was personally surprised we did not get blackrose dragon lol. Same era as most of these synchros also.
I think that would have been too obvious that it would be banned
CGB absolutely REFUSING to accept full armor master is the best bit of content i've seen in a while.
Probably the second bird-related card that's gonna stick with him for a while
It was so funny watching him grapple with the tribute concept when he was the one explaining how you’d need to look to edge cases in order to remove it.
Did anyone even mention that it can be destroyed by battle? Felt like that was just completely glossed over, and probably would've saved some sanity points
One thing that can be easy to overlook with the early synchro monsters is how there was a notable accessibility gap between level 8s and level 7s and below.
Even normal summoning aside, level 4 and lower monsters were largely easier to summon than the 5 and higher ones, but good level 4 tuners were few and far between, so the easy 4+4 to make level 8 synchros was rarely an option.
Let's go! Hope you are recovering well!
1:03:50 CGB acting like you cannot force an opponent to sacrifice a creature with "Protection from everything" in MTG. ;)
That's my thought exactly, he didn't think of Diabolic edict for the enemy's progenitus / thorn. Wouldn't be cost tho, as it is an effect unlike a Lava Golem.
@@rangingaway92 Edicts have similar wording as Evenly Matched: "Target player sacrifices a creature of their choice" and "You can make your opponent banish cards from their field face-down so they control the same number of cards as you do"
Protection in magic is rather unintuitive to me. Because it doesn't protect against board-wipes, whereas from the word itself, I feel like it should. Even more if it's worded as "Protection from everything".
"Protection from [quality] (This can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, enchanted, or equipped by anything [quality].)"
^ The definition of mtg's protection. The thing can still be affected by card effects that don't do those things specifically (like those that don't target the card directly).
For Blackwing Full Armor Master, the text is 100% true to what it means. "Unaffected by other cards' effects" is as true as it can be in YGO. It's just there exist other things to out the card. 1: Battling the card. 2: Using "cost" to remove the card (Like Lava Golem, but there are other ways to do this now in modern YGO standard).
Underworld Goddess of the Closed World.
@@overcoldicecurrent yugiog is one card combos and upwards of 20+ handtraps. Watch the recent Farfa Highlights video where he talks about Pak playing 23 handtraps in a 42 card deck and the state of the game.
@@overcoldice you're definitely overthinking the protection in MtG. It's basically "cant be targeted and can't be blocked." Its that simple. The fact that board wipes dont target is the very reason they take the protected card down. The reason its balanced is because to board wipe is to also destroy your own board. Unless you have an asymmetrical board wipe, but you usually have to build pretty consistently for that. Its like if you have bullet proof armor but the entire battlefield is just getting sprayed with endless bullets for a moment. That armor will not mean much vs all that power. Building and MtG deck is preparing for the worst and having good cost to value ratios. If the only thing your card, and subsequently your deck, has going for it is that its big and has protection, thats not a good game plan at all.
"I didn't realize I was walking into a whole another game."
Neither did we CGB...
58:55 AM I STUPID and just the momentary comedic pause was just gold hahahaha. you both need to never stop with this series. it's just too good and the two of you have amazing comedic chemistry
I don't think you eased him into the summoning mechanics like LSV. Then again, I mean... he does it to himself with those things like Dingus Egg and power nine prices. Throw him in the deep end!
Now HE is the dingus egg!!!
Sweet sweet revenge (his reaction to armor master is just priceless and im waiting for the other ones)
I feel like he spent too long on old school content, he is completely unprepared for anything nearing mid synchro era because he has been fed real basic monsters and effects
@@ZackSparksyeah the power creep escalated insanely fast after GX.
To be fair Baronne De Fleur is the epitome of WTF especially in master duel
Turn 1 Baronne Pass Play...
really? lil old baronne is the epitome of WTF?
@@copperveins it is when she negates Nibiru
Nah Snake Eye was the issue. Baronne is a fine designed card, the TCG just didn't had the balls to hit SE so rarity collection cards had to get executed instead...
@ not saying your wrong but I’ve rarely ever encountered a snake eyes in master duel. I see Baronne every third duel in platinum
watching magic players die inside trying to comprehend the yugioh extra deck never gets old!
Never seen Dark Strike Fighter before and I was just like “damn that’s basically the Magical Scientist + Catapult Turtle otk” lmao
And unlike Catapult Turtle, DSF can easily be brought out. Different hoops but still as OP
Then u a newer player I play then I was 15 in high school and only went to locals n my school had a club for games n tournament it was fun but I had the card
@@peteryanes3413... Newer player? Catapult Turtle otk is older than Dark Strike Fighter
I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh since 8th grade in 2003 outside the orchestra practice rooms. I don't play or follow any card games and have no clue who either of these guys are. However, this series is really awesome and I have been checking the uploads out all week. Sometimes the YT algorithm just gets it right! Thanks for the work you two have done!
You should play that only the first format ever before goat
Lol. Yu-Gi-Oh! 2. CGB, Yu-Gi-Oh! 2 was the *introduction* of Synchro monsters, those first monsters Cimo showed you: Stardust, Goyo Guardian, Thought Ruler Archfiend and a few others that Cimo didn’t show you in this video. We’re on like Yu-Gi-Oh! 6. Six years ago might have been like still in Yu-Gi-Oh! 5, so basically Cimo skipped Yu-Gi-Oh! 3 and 4 to show you a card that failed to salvage a deck that hasn’t been good since Yu-Gi-Oh! 2 (where it was at the time, very very good).
What's your method of counting where we're on 6th while Synchros are introduced at 2th? If we use Master Rules, the 2 make sense, but we'd be on 5 (MR4 2020 Revision) and if you use the anime series, we'd be on 6th (Master Duel anime wise) but Synchros were introduced at 3rd.
Duelist Genesis is YGO 2
Generation Force - YGO 3
Duelist Alliance - YGO 4
Code of the Duelist - YGO 5
POTE - YGO 6
@@ItsPForPea OG, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, LINK, Power of the Elements. If we also count the original OCG rules before the expert rules, we would be on 7, but I wasn’t thinking about that when I wrote my comment originally.
I have to imagine it's major game revisions (MR or not)
1: OG Yugioh
2: Synchros
3: XYZs
4: Pendulums
5: Links (With original EMZ Rules)
6: Now (Revised EMZ Rules)
Nah. Synchro era still felt like Yugioh. Even the XYZ era still felt and played like the same game. Its when we got to Pendulums did things take a turn and then we were just playing a different game by Mastery Rule 4 and Link monsters. Id say Yu-Gi-Oh 2 happend with the additions of Link monsters.
EXTRA CONTEXT FOR CGB:
I might start doing this on future videos to add context on a card I think Magic players might find useful for evaluating it, since I play both games. I've done my best not to spoil it by talking about other cards you might be shown in the future.
Synchro summoning in general:
So, Synchro monsters, and the Extra Deck in general, could probably best be thought of as a 15 card Companion Zone or Command Zone. Except... with those, you have deck building restrictions. And we don't have those. There is no Extra Deck monster in the game that says you cannot have a monster of another type or attribute in your 40-60 card Main Deck. However, unlike WotC, who realized after Ikoria that players having access to one card in every single game is an undesireable spike of power "creep", Konami's design team instead just leaned into it. And thus began the 16 year long arms race of power creep that produced Yugioh 2, as you called it. Synchro monsters were... essentially, the beginning of this arms race. (Vanishingly few fusion monsters beforehand had this impact. Yugioh players, don't @ me.)
Stardust Dragon:
One important note is that this was the Ace monster of the protagonist of the 3rd main Yugioh anime series. It was game-warpingly powerful, but sentiment played a role in this card never being hit. Yes, it *was* rapidly kept in check by cards that like Goyo Guardian and Brionac (discussed below), but like I said, it's an arms race. Designers just leaned into it. Even when those two cards got banned, the game had pivoted such that players noe often prioritize having access to non-destructive removal always on hand (usually in the Extra Deck) to deal with cards *like* Stardust, which is why this card no longer sees much play.
Goyo Guardian: The biggest issue with this card is the combination of it being merely 6 stars and being 2800 attack. I know Cimo said that the ease of summoning monsters doesn't matter, but that is only partly the case. *At the time*, Goyo Guardian was usually a card you could summon on your 2nd turn (occasionally first), whereas Stardust being level 8 meant that it was usually only coming out turns 3 or later. Again, there were exceptions, but most Tuner's at the time were less than level 4, so it was hard to add up to level 8 back then. Now, it is no problem. Notably, when they removed this card from the banlist, they errataed it to require an Earth tuner. This was probably unnecessary at the time, as there was a lot of available counterplay to it. But the card no longer sees any play because of this.
Thought Ruler Archfiend:
The psychic deck at this time largely revolved around paying life points for cost to activate effects, and then using other effects to gain life points back. Nowadays, psychic monsters don't tend to care about that *as* much. But it was the main theme at the time. But with that said, in non-psychic decks, the destruction protection for anything offered by Stardust made it a far better level 8 Synchro to make than Thought Ruler's targeting protection for itself (in most situations). So it was largely fine.
Dark Strike Fighter: While this card is not good enough for mainstream play, it is still used in FTK's to this day. This is because, while the highest level *printed* on a card is 12, there are effects that modify levels of cards, and some combos can increase a card's levels to absurd degrees.
Brionic, Dragon of the Ice Barrier:
You hit the nail right on the head for this one. The big reason it got banned is because it could bounce your own cards. It is genuinely impressive that you saw it so fast as *most* non-yugioh players who evaluate this card do not catch this. Congratulate yourself! It's not just because of ETB triggers however. It's also because it can get around some "once per turn" clauses on card effects. According to the game mechanics, if a card leaves the field and is resummoned somehow (or flipped face down and then back face up), it counts as a new instance of that card. And so if a card merely says something like "once per turn, activate this effect", that only counts for that instance of the card, and not every other time you summon it. (Generally, this is because it is a headache otherwise to keep track of single copies of a card in case they enter a private information zone like the hand or deck.) There are cards that still restrict you with what we colloquially call a "hard once per turn", whereas what I described above is a soft once per turn (personally, I dislike these terms and think they are unclear, but it isn't up to me). A hard once per turn will instead say something like. "You can only activate this effect of [card name here] once per turn" (the difference being that it references the name of the card).
Naturia Beast:
A lot of people *want* this card to be banned, for the record, because it is not once per turn. But you actually kinda were correct that this card remains legal partly to preserve the identity of this deck. You were correct about the mill effect being a good thing though. Not only does another Naturia synchro monster need to banish cards from the Yard to activate *its* effects, but there are Naturia cards that either recycle from the graveyard or that *activate* when sent there. One of the ways that they hit the deck on the banlist was actually by restricting the best card that you could mill (which tutors for any Naturia card when sent to the grave) to one copy per deck, in part so that the mills off of Naturia Beast are less likely to benefit you. (Ftr, other decks *could* summon or cheat out this card. But lately, there have been better things to cheat out that don't *just* negate spells, so... it's low priority to hit.
Blackwing Full Armor Master:
Boy, he sure threw you into the deep end with this one... Welcome to Yugioh 2?
So, some context, Blackwing was a very popular deck in the early 2010s. It was an aggro deck and was very combat based. However, as the game has become more and more centered around first turn combos (which has no combat step), the Blackwing deck has suffered as a result. Traditional aggro decks like that have had essentially no place in the meta in years. So this card was eventually thrown as a bone to the Blackwing players as something they can do turn one since their entire gameplan is irrelevant now. There are other things the deck also does if they are entirely left uninterrupted, but I won't say on the off chance that Cimo or someone else shows them to you. (And like with Naturia Beast, there were a handful of other decks that would splash a Blackwing tuner to play this card, but it wasn't too consistent, so it didn't catch on.)
But yes, in the game now, we have certain cards that are... essentially... I don't want to say they are Force of Will as that hits everything, but imagine there was a cycle of cards that are like Annul, Dispel, Envelop, Essence Scatter... you know, cards that negate specific *kinds* of effects. They all essentially discard themselves for cost to negate an effect of a specific kind. We call them "handtraps", because they play like the trap cards from early in the game. Basically every deck is about 15%-55% handtraps, depending on how fast the format is, so that you almost always have one in your starting hand of 5 cards. Some have been hit, some haven't. I don't want to say more as it might spoil future videos.
Baronne de Fleur:
So... this was actually a controversial ban. A lot of people whine about because it being generic meant that lots of bad old decks could resort to using Baronne because their deck otherwise lacked a viable win condition to keep up with the modern game (despite the fact that meta decks could summon her just as easily, if not moreso). I don't want to say how the ban should properly be interpreted as it requires talking about other cards and possibly spoiling you.
I can’t wait until you show him some Archetypes or Hand Traps, those are going be some fun episodes
That wouldn’t be fun though. Mtg has “hand traps” but in the sense you literally rip cards from your opponent’s hand like what yugioh tried to do. He wouldn’t be surprised or even phased if i had to guess only maybe how hand traps are used differently in yugioh over mtg
I just can't wait for the Tearlament Kitkalos to make an appearance. or dragon rulers!
MTG basically has handtraps already (like force of will and mental misstep), he shouldn't break.
I’d love to see him evaluate the Egyptian Gods as individual archetypes since I don’t think he has the context of the anime to skew his perspective, and almost any kind of Exodia deck, just to see his reaction to the Exodia win condition. I’m also curious if he’d look at Exodia’s effect and put it together that that’s a good part of the reason Yugioh has such a restriction on draw power.
@@kratal122 exodia is basically a wincon we have in mtg
Armor master for magic players - you can force your opponent to sacrifice an indestructible creature, a shroud creature, protection creature etc. That's what this is but as another games wording/mechanics.
Ok, I'm waiting for the punchline.
...
...
AM I STUPID?!?!?!
hahahaha hahaha oh, man... it got me in tears😂😂
Does it say you aren't ?
That got me as well I absolutely loved that CGB quote... even more so when he said "Give the punchline you're not fooling anyone"
I'm going to start using the term "Yu-Gi-Oh 2" from now on to refer to modern Yu-Gi-Oh.
Yugioh 1: LOB - GLAS
Yugioh 2: PTDN - PRIO
Yugioh 3: DUEA - INOV
Yugioh 4 (modern): RATE - present
54:55 "Unaffected by other cards' effects" is what "Protection from everything" sounds like it should be
As far as I can tell, the main difference is that protection also prevents a creature from being targeted for an attack, whereas unaffected doesn't.
@@OyVeey I'd say Unaffected trumping board wipes (including non-destruction ones like Cyclonic Rift or Farewell) is a bigger difference, since you could always choose to not attack with Full Armor Master if you're paranoid about getting double blocked.
"and it never saw play since."
Except in the master duel world championship where a SHS deck brought out dark strike fighter plus galaxy queen's light to ftk the opponent.
47:50 makes an ENTIRE point out of "EARTH" being the card type, hears "Yeah types don't matter" as an answer LMAO that's just pure gold.
He's not wrong.
@@ajkcool is there even a right or wrong? it was just funny lol
FYI you guys have great chemistry. I discovered you through these videos.
I played both magic and Yu-Gi-Oh in early 2000s
As someone that fell off after 5D's, Full Armor Master existing, let alone being fine, is completely crazy to me. I'm with CGB on this one
the secret is that blackwings are not much different from how you remember them in the 5ds era
full armor master may be a crazy card, but the trade off is that you're playing an edison format deck whose most recent support is laser-focused on letting you ... play _specifically_ black-winged dragon. which means the part of the deck that gets you to full armor master is the edison format cards and, like, a handful of the manga and arc-v blackwings that actually get you to your wincon of nib token turbo
Basically think of it like this
The card is CRAZY but everything that needs to be played to get it out isn't
Lava Golem OMEGALUL
I think the biggest thing for me is that it doesn't do anything on your opponents turn. It just sits there and does stuff if it makes it back to your turn, but 90% of the time your opponent can just find a way to out it before that.
@kinosnake exactly. It doesn't let you do anything to it sure but WHY would you want to do something to it when you can make a board with no resistance with it on the board
Correction: Blackwing Full Armor Master in a blackwing deck costs very little resources. It is just ONE synchro out of 4-5 on the Blackwing end board, it is definitely not the sole purpose of the deck.
The end board usually has 2 Black-winged Assault Dragons (which is one win con of the deck) + a omninegate from Hot Red Dragon Archfiend Abyss + Dis Pater; or you can just Kali Yuga the opponent while having 2-3 level 10 synchros as follow-up.
Yeah, the issue with Blackwing Full Armor is just generally that it doesn't actually do much and outing a 3000 in battle is trivially easy for most decks nowadays, not that it's taking all your resources to get out in a Blackwing deck
Do note that Cimo stopped playing the more recent cards so he does lack the context to an up to date Blackwing combo or endboard along with among other things
Well full armor master was the gameplay when cimoo stoped playing the game he probably doesn't remember that they got a new synchro dragon and they have kali yuga lines
He doesn't play modern yugioh much competitively. Cimo is great but his card opinions are a tad outdated
Cimo is a yugiboomer and doesn't really know cards past Edison.
I think the most sensical way to explain the Extra Deck to MTG players is that it's a bit like the Command Zone.
The cards you choose as your Extra Deck monsters tend to determine what you put in the rest of the deck; if you're building around summoning Shaddoll Construct and Shaddoll Winda you're encouraged to play cards that support Fusion Summoning and *not* to play cards that support Synchro Summoning, similar to how a Blue-Black Commander prevents you from playing Red cards.
I could see the distain for naturia beast in his eyes when he saw it 💀
Tbf mtg has similar cards that restrict players
I think a big problem is that Cimo didn't explain that one of the actual biggest problems with Full Armor Master is that he's a slow monster. On your opponent's turn, he just sits there and prays they don't have an out or something bigger than him. Going first and ending on a FAM only matters if he survives to the end of the turn, but he's basically a big defense stat until the end of the turn.
Baronne, on the other hand, tells your opponent NO and does something. Any card that can deal with both of these cards will deal with them both equally, and any card that deals with Barrone only is either a bad card/rarely worth playing, or Barrone can negate it and protect the rest of her board from it's effect as well, because single target removal is kind of weak unless it's in archetype or does something stupidly strong nowadays.
The problem is that it's small. 3k is so easy to crash over
@@GodzillaFreakBarrone is banned, why on earth are you out here trying to downplay it lmao
@LazurBeemz
Baronne is fine, it shouldn't be banned.
A single negate is not a problem in a format where there are so many boardbreakers that just instant win the game if they resolve, baronne doesn't even work on half of them.
@@LazurBeemz I’m speaking of full armor master. Baronne is handtrap insulation lmao it doesn’t even need to last to the opponent’s battle phase in the first place
If CGB reads this, for Full Armor still being possible to deal with, think of it like using an edict when your opponent has something like Emrakul or Progenitus out. The exact mechanics are a bit different but it comes down to being sacrificed overrides any protection abilities the creature may have.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, particularly considering that YGO's 'tribute' seems pretty equivalent to MTG's 'sacrifice'.
It's not even being sacrificed overrides protection, it's you as the opponent are being made to apply the effect to your creatures. Evenly Match doesnt "sacrifice" and beats FAM. Destructive Daruma Cannon also beats it. The way to beat "Unaffected by (your opponents [activated]) card effects" is use a card or effect that affects the opponent, rather then the monster/creature
Dingus Egg messing with poor Mesa Falcons head. I love it.
As someone who played early YuGiOh, left, and then came back relatively recently, that YuGiOh 2 bit makes me laugh a ton
Pendulums! Pendulums! Pendulums!
Melt the brains! Kick the nuts! Bring the Synchro/Pendulum combos
please no… even most ygu players hate pendulums
No no, let him learn to overlay, then throw at him master Endymion
I feel like Pendulum have to be skipped for the sake of understanding "simple" summons 1st, and then Pendulum comes to wrap everything together, just because every other summon mechanic can be done with pendulum.
@@caruzo9631Pendulums made me quit yugioh 😂
You mean Nirvana High Paladin? LET'S GO! 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21
3:35 yugioh players in 2008, 2011, 2014, and 2017
Lmao for real first time I seen pends and links my girl brain imploded I literally thought links were new easier rituals because I love my og rituals
I still do not understand Link summoning
@@thepurplebox380 Its literally the exact same as synchro summoning but their is no tuner requirement. The only vaguely complicated part is that they need to be summoned into the extra monster zone or somewhere a link monster points.
@@thepurplebox380 put the material listed on it into grave, summon your first Link monster into the Extra Monster Zone. If you want to summon another, it must be to a zone a Link monster points to. A monster's LINK rating is how many materials it can be used for another link summon, so if you want to make a Link 3 monster, you can use a LINK 2 and any other monster, as long as it still follows the material requirement. Doing this sequentially is referred to as "Link climbing"
Oh lawd allmighty can't wait for Xyz and Link summoning to bake his brain.
Tbh those are the more simple ones. No tuners or asymmetric deckbuilding. Xyz and links work rly well in sealed for this reason
It's unfortunate, but as a Blackwings player myself, Full Armor Master is just okay. It really needs a fellow synchro friend, or back row support, on the field to do much. Easily beat over or Tributed. 2/5 times you summon it, another Blackwing could've been more optimal.
Since you flunked this one cgb heres some things to keep in mind for why something is banned:
Forces a draw, Stops the game or aspect of the game or can be looped
(mostly old Yu-Gi-Oh).
Its too easy to summon + game winning powerful.
(Basically this episode concerning generics)
It cant be destroyed in "any" way.
Draws 2 or more cards.
I love that you keep showing CGB Ice Barrier cards and he gets all giddy. You should help him build an Ice Barrier deck.
Imagine how happy he'd be playing runick ice barrier
@@KeshavKrishnan So true- he'd finally understand if he knew the power of 'no' In YuGiOh. All these powerful cards are powerless to the power of "NO".
@@KeshavKrishnan That was exactly my first thought, he would be the kind of guy who would like runick.
Baronne de Fleur would be the nastiest azorius control card if there was anything mechanincally similar in MTG. Like Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant but turned up to 11.
In case CGB reads this: "Unaffected by other card's effects" does exactly what you think it does. The reason something like lava golem can still remove it is because it basically has the text "as an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice two creatures an opponent controls". So it's a cost not an effect.
Okay but Stardust Dragon is basically just "Glen Elendra, Archimage" right? I'm not crazy?
That’s a pretty good analogy. There’s some obvious key differences, but it’s the same basic idea. The biggest difference would of course be that Persist puts the -1/-1 counters on the card, which means there is a limit to how many times you can do it. Stardust Dragon is an infinite loop, in and of itself.
@matthewcolosi7606 not if you've got cathars'crusade and/or good fortune unicorn (I like counters too much)
"What deck does this go in?"
ALL OF THEM!
That's right, it goes in the square deck
56:56 comedy gold for soneone who plays both games😂😂😂
please show him archetypes next time instead of just single cards.
CGB would love tearlaments
"the toilet Mount Rushmore"
I think you mean Mount Flushmore
"Next, I think I'll synchro summon!"
"Synchro what...?"
His analysis of full armor master is everything I hate about modern yugioh, he got it so right. Listening to him say that "they either took crazy pills and printed this OR they printed 100 cards like this" hit me hard. I'm gonna buy an Edison deck xD
"This is just Yu-Gi-Oh 2! This is a whole different game!"
And I'm sure people that played during the days of Juzam Djinns would say the same of MTG.
I relate the extra deck to the commander zone (or whatever the area you cast your commander from is actually called) in Commander MTG. They're always accessible, but you need the req's. Although the commander goes back to the commander zone on destruction.
There's companions in mtg, they come from the side deck though, except in kitchen table casual play. (No extradeck in mtg)
@@mawillix2018I am not familiar with companions at all
(This wasn't a pun on familiars)
that's fair but in Yugioh we have 15 of them.
Here’s the thing with Commanders/Companions, though - meeting the requirements for them are done at the deckbuilding stage. Once you enter a game, no matter what you have in your hand, on the field, in your deck, whatever, you will *always* be able to bring it out. Which in some cases, depending on said restriction, means there’s either little or no deckbuilding requirements at all.
The only other note is that for Companions you must reveal you have one, and which one it is, at the start of each game, or you can’t bring it out later.
Honestly, the best way to explain Blackwing Full Armor Master to a Magic player would be to equate it to Progenitus. It's a big dude that makes Jimmy really excited and that you you can get out when you build your deck with him as your goal... but the investement to get him our hamstrings you compared to other more straitforward strategies that other non-blackwing archetypes can provide.
Can't wait until CGB learns about XYZ and Links. You might kill him if you show him pendulum summoning.
XYZs I like CGB to see.
-Shock Master.
-Bagooska.
Links
-Crystron Halqifibrax.
-Mekk-Knight Crusadia Avramax.
Pends
-Performapal Skullcrobat Joker.
-Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic.
Fusion.
- Elder Entity Norden.
-Supreme King Dragon Starving Venom.
Links really needs the context of Pendulums to show what it was THEY were trying to 'fix.'
@@watchm4ker Not really, with modern rules, you can basically ignore everything that was wrong with pends. That and the change to the board, from 5 s/t and pend zone being separate rather than combined. Without the need for Link cards.
I think it was probably worth highlighting one key difference between Full Armor Master and Baronne which is that Full Armor Master doesn't actually interact with your opponent until it loops back to your turn. This means you're giving free rein to your opponent to do whatever setup or combo that's needed to come up with a board state to deal with the Armor Master, which could be as simple as just summoning one really big guy that can hit over it. Baronne is a threat because if she's made turn 1, she will stop your opponent's plays which are trying to hinder your board.
The other thing worth flagging is that Blackwing is an older archetype from 10-15y ago which has gotten some legacy support over that time but ultimately is a very weak strategy compared to modern day decks. Full Armor Master is essentially locked to that archetype while modern decks can make use of Baronne on top of their own cards, so her being generic is another huge reason why she's so oppressive.
I love seeing magic players convert yugioh cards to magic cards as i play both tcgs
Give me a few? I'll be delighted to try; my only experience playing Yu-Gi-Oh are the GBA games from 2003ish, so I definitely don't know new cards in the slightest.
A small hint earlier of like "Cards that return extra deck monsters to THE HAND" will actually return them to the extra deck. He gets very focused on destruction being the only form of removal when there's a ton more options of removal of extra deck monsters
To explain the blackwing big monster, imagine that you are not playing the best cards in the game, for the opportunity of this big threat. And even if they do, its still posible to punish(you would need to crash or draw the out) but the best decks have the ability to stop your opponent from reaching that gamestate.
So it itself is busted, but is it really worth it to play suboptimally to get to that gamestate?
Its an oportunity cost in a way
Jumping from banned cards in Edison format to just play cards in modern Yugioh is devious
We finally made it to synchro monsters!!! We've been waiting so long!!
Cimo might need to give him an explanation about Cost vs Effect vs Game Mechanic.
Hello, this is Daruma Cannon, I can interact with cards that are "unaffected" by card effects... with my card effect because I affect the field, not the card.
you affect the player
Glad to see Cimo laughing so much in these videos. They say laughter is the best medicine, and Cimo needs all the help he can get at the moment.
Keep on laughing, for both yourself and for us.
what you are saying is very true but this is unfortunately pre recorded:/
@FlareBlossom well, Cimo has been having health issues for a quite while. My statement still stands. He could use the laughs at the time of recording, and he can definitely use them now
Synchro, Xyz, and Fusion (especially Contact Fusion) were such a perfect triangle of Extra Deck summoning.
yup, at that time after xyz was released fusions were harder to summon with pretty good stats but not many of them had relevant effects compared to xyz that were the easiest to summon with great effects but low stats (e.g the best you getting was pearl with 2600 in a rank4 toolbox deck if not only temp 4-5k if you needed to beat something over) and synchros were somewhere between them in terms their quality in stats and effects
and then the pendulum asshole showed up
We're pretty solidly in "Yugioh 2" at this point
On top of what Cimo said about other decks making Baronne on top of their other win conditions, Baronne also turned every Synchro deck into "Baronne turbo" because it's usually stronger than the in-archetype boss monster tthey can make.
The reanimate effect is way more relevant than Cimo gave it crecits for. The thing it's tagging into is usually something with an on-summon effect that can gain you more card advantage and guarantees an OTK on the 3rd turn if the opponent can't get rid of Baronne.
6:43 the way bro's jaw was on the floor when he guessed correct 😂😂😂
it looks like the 'dingus egg'-guy got some revenge on the 'mesa falcon'-dude, can't wait for the next episode 😜
7:35 appropriate reaction to the konami orbs😂
ORBS! ORBS! ORBS! ORBS!
I agree with CGB on the blackwing being confusing tbh; the premise of it being easy to summon kinda falls apart when you add "it's easy to stop it from hitting the field", but other than that, awesome video as always!
He needs to see Handtraps! Those tie together the whole gameplay loop of modern Yu-Gi-Oh
I think a good thing for CGB to know would have been that in Yugioh it's important if a Monster has an "immidiate impact" once it hit the board and that proactive/reactive cards are better than just "good guys" like Blackwing Full Armor Master or super beefy immune type of Monster that are great on their own but doesn't contribute much to your board (except their body) or extend on your game plan.
Blackwing Full Armor Master is a nice Monster, but it has nearly no impact once it hits the board. You basically spending like 2-3 cards to play it and say to your opponent "now answer that!". Except attacking and the Monster negate effect, the Monster doesn't do much on it's own. So if your opponent has an out (like a Lava Golem) or can destroy it by battle, you just wasted ressources and achieved nothing.
Baronne de Fleur on the other hand is both proactive because it destroys a thing and can negate something (negating everything is way better than just one specific card type), meanwhile still is a 3000ATK body to deal with. It kinda pays itself back in card economy (or can even profite you if it survives) and has an immidate impact on the board, which makes it so much better than Blackwing Full Armor Master.
That's funny Is Blackwing full armor master Got me too I haven't played
A few years before that
Then I saw that Card and try to get Back into yugioh And realized the game had changed A LOT!
Cgb collabs are just so fun. He's become one of my favorite creators along with you. Absolute joy of video.
"stardust dragon covering nipples?"
Cimov *_WHAT?!_*
I am never going to unsee Stardusts Dragons "draconic bikini" now. Thanks CGB XD
I think something that would be really nice for the guest is to give them a year that the card was released off the rip instead of needing to be prompted for it.
Also can we one day take CGB into Duelingbook or another sim and just, like, show him how chains and are built and resolve so he can have an idea of how this game mechanic works
Hey CGB! Just for more info, in yugioh when it says a "card or effect is activated" in MTG terms it would translate to, "if a spell is cast or an ability is triggered/activated"
So stardust as an MTG card would say "Counter target Spell/Triggered or Activated Ability that would destroy a card(s) on the field, if the countered ability is from a card on the field, destroy it"
something like that
I am sad that cimo doesnt know that much about magic, because when cgb was freaking out about "unaffected by card effects", cimo could have given the example: if you edict your opponent, they are the one sacrificing the creature. Sacing the creature goes past all kinds of protection, nothing can stop a creature from getting sacrificed. Sure, it can come back with undying and stuff, but it will always die if you sacrifice it. Thats how i see the Lava golem things effect: nice Progenitus buddy, here have a hot rocky boy instead.
I mean if he did it would we wouldn't have Dingus egg moments on CGB's channel, so I will call it a negative 😂
We need an episode where CGB learns to play Yugioh now, put him through the Rarran wringer but get him to play a runick deck instead of swordsoul.
I think to try and help CGB understand in magic terms why in the hellscape of modern Yugioh Baronne De Fleur specifically is busted I am going to convert it to a magic card
3 neutral mana
4/4 statline
Companion - Your starting library must be exactly 60 cards.
textbox: Tap to counter target spell, At upkeep does not untap. You may pay 2 neutral to bounce it back to hand
Why would you not play this card in literally every single deck ever? It's just the easiest most convenient way atm to have access to counterspell effect without any real deck building sacrifices. Dies to Baronne would become more meme'd than Dies to Doomblade in weeks.
and you haven't even added the once per turn sorcery speed destruction effect
(also that when it bounces it reborns something else)
@@FlareBlossom Because that's superfluous. It's played because it's a counterspell on legs from the companion zone, everything else is just making the poor man's head spin just because.
@@MrEntinen May be fair but I don't really like this philosophy. Ygo players also learnt to read these cards and understand them (and we are not some different species xd) he is a capable human not a child. It's not THAT complicated, I think he just overreact for dramatic effect. Besides I heard that todays MTG cards often have a lot of text too and 2-3 effects.
And yes it's not mainly played because of the destroy effect but it makes the card even stronger, it's not negligable.
@@FlareBlossom While all you say is about 98% correct, I feel should clarify. It's not about not being able to read, it's about understanding the context. You play Baronne because it's the easiest omni-negate to play from extra deck. And it is not unique from a long line of banned easiest generic omni-negates from extra deck. For the era of yugioh we're in, understanding this danger of easy OMNIs is a key point of understanding the game. If he writes in his notes "easy omni-negates are good" it would serve him better at rating cards than "big monster with multiple good effect good". While Baronne's destroy effect is strong and useful, you would play it at almost the same playrate if it didn't have it.
The problem here was that Cimo didnt show the Fusion mechanic. The episode was, if im not mistaken, he shown the fusion monster and a card that we used to cheat it out, but he never shown how the mechanic worked, he didnt show poly he didnt show materials. I guess thats why CGB didn remember fusions... he didnt see it.
Even though he got it right, it was pretty mean to tell CGB to assume all these synchros were relatively easy to summon but then tell him to evaluate Naturia Beast. The only reason NatBeast wasn't banned is because, even to this day, it's still relatively difficult to summon.
Sure, something like Rescue Cat can get it out by itself, but that requires running an earth tuner that is effectively a vanilla in your deck. Konami has been very careful about printing earth tuners entirely because of this card, and if it had been generic, it would absolutely have been giga-banned.
de fleur also got pretty ridiculous with the release of s:p little night, you could keep using s:p to refresh de fleurs once while face up effect
I can't wait until CGB is introduced to Pendulum cards and he has to read Endymion.
Not gone be for long time now he got do few more of these ones then xyz then that so 2 months maybe 3 or longer because cimo gone have to take time off
I think a better way to explain why Lava Golem (and similar effects) go over Blackwing (and similar effects) because paying a cost as part of playing a card or activating an effect is not part of that cards effect (which translates a lot better to an MTG player than just explaining it as game mechanics vs card effects).
Suggestion: Watch your "The most Anime Moment in YGO" video with CGB to give him a taste of how YGO actually plays^^
In earlier YGO, attributes and types definitely had a lot more playstyle identity, but Konami has cared less about it increasingly as time has passed. Even earlier archetypes and
In earlier YGO, DARK and LIGHT monsters were more control and strategy based. Fire was centered around burn. WATER was mostly centered around Umi and swarm tactics. WIND was centered around S/T control. EARTH was more defense focused. Even the early structure decks and archetypes fit these molds. Gravekeepers are GY control. Harpies started as swarm and evolved into S/T control. Volcanics trade battle for burn. Ancient Gears started protect themselves to attack with big NAHMBUR. Dark Worlds and Lightsworn use the graveyard in unconventional ways, controlling the game through effects and setting up a huge payoff for the late game. A lot of these evolved later on to embody other mechanics, like WIND revolving about bouncing cards (Mist Valley, Harpies, Yosenju), DARK/LIGHT revolving around Chaos monsters, EARTH incorporating control (Rock Stun/Naturia).
With types, Dragons, Dinosaurs, Warriors, Machines, Beasts, & Beast Warriors are very aggro (Dragon Rulers, Gladiator Beasts, Dinomist, SPYRAL). Psychics focused on banishing and using LP as a main resource (Kozmo, P.U.N.K., Virtual World). Zombies focus on graveyard recursion (Vampires, Eldlich, Vendread). Fiend and Fairies tend focus on control (Lair of Darkness, Dark World, Counter Fairies, Labrynth). Plants and Insects were about strength in numbers (Naturia, Plant Synchro, Beetroopers, Battlewasps).
The game has pretty much evolved past it all, focusing more on archetype and themes having their own mechanics and centered around summoning methods, but the DNA is still there.
Ive been playing magic for 8 years, yugioh for qbout 20, both semi-competetively, kind of switching back and forth depending on the formats. One of the most annoying things i see in other magic players is them sort of silently agreeing with eachother to lie about the complexity and the speed of magic when they hear about yugioh. Vintage and legacy is essentially a less skilled version of yugioh (to be fair, the game didnt design itself around these types of formats and you have so many other better options so it absolutely makes sense) and the like that thing where magic players ALWAYS gaslight themselves when they hear about yugiohs different summoning mechanics.. lmao like bro, hows into the dungeon working for you? Storm is SOOO uncomplicated. How about these 300 different keywords lmao. The only issue is you kind of have to know like these 5 different mechanics things from the start in yugioh instead of building a deck around just one of them in magic
The thing is, no one plays vintage and legacy unless they're collectors or have MONEY. The different summonings i agree aren't very hard to understand but keep in mind CGB probably only hears about yugioh once every 1-2 weeks. And honestly the keywords aren't even that hard, storm is keeping track of spells played, dungeon is literally just saga's but niche. They say it best in the end, Yugioh has bad complexity creep, mtg is just getting out of some real bad powercreep
@ZackSparks yea, and it's completely understandable that vintage and legacy are like that because the game kind of just allows those formats to exist, it's not built around them like yugioh is. This post was mostly just out of frustration over the years of hearing the magic players id interact with kind of calling out yugioh for things that exist in magic and being flabbergasted about them. And the keywords aren't that complicated, but really the extra deck is SUPER simple as well. Like I don't think the summoning mechanics are even a little bit of a problem but that's sort of a talking point for other mtg players. I think the thing that makes yugioh "too complicated" is really more that you have to memorize the combos and it creates a bit of a solitaire feeling. But this was just a built up frustration that when you're talking about tcgs to mtg players it feels like many of them are already geared on the ygo hate-train and the points that are brought up (in my opinion) are invalid and exist in magic in a similar capacity. Magic gets away with it because they have so many alternative formats (which ygo desperately needs. Ygo needs an official commander-esque format for example)
I guess the reason your average MTG player doesn't remember those completely insane play patterns is that they aren't common at all. Vintage is a niche format, and Legacy almost as much; while people do play with proxies, they just aren't the most common ways of playing. CEDH is more common than them, but still a small format, and the decks are so entirely defined by their commanders that you just know what this or that deck does.
It's true that MTG makes up for the lack of complicated cast mechanics by having a long list of complicated keywords, though. But it's a common joke that most of us just don't _remember_ most of those old keywords and rely on reminder text - at the time of writing, the rules list 236 keywords (60 keyword actions and 176 keyword abilities), and I don't know anyone who remembers them all.
On the other hand, in terms of speed, fully eternal formats are definitely on par with Yu-Gi-Oh. I've seen many a CEDH game end on turn 2, and turn 1 isn't completely unheard of. Vintage, for the approximately four people who play it, tends to have many turn 1 and turn 2 wins. It's just that most players don't play that way.
CGB's childish joy at seeing counters made my day. Also, I'm so ready for the hand trap vs counter spell evaluation videos.
“Unaffected by other cards effects.”
Must be broken…
Kaiju: Hi…
What kaiju?
"because I don't care anymore" "because I am dead inside"
This sums up CovertGoBlue's experience this time around.