In short: In DSP synths like the Virus, the polyphony is dependent from the processing power, in FPGA synths like the Kyra, the polyphony is hard-coded and therefore fixed / guaranteed, no matter the patch complexity. It's essentially a dedicated digital hardware, each voice has got its own logic gates and stuff, just like analog synths have dedicated analog circuitry per voice. The funny thing is that back in the day, dynamic voice allocation depending on available processing power was being sold to the customers as something modern and innovative, like something being much better than fixed polyphony. Example: The original Waldorf Q had fixed and guaranteed 16 voices, which could be expanded to 32 guaranteed voices. The expansion board was simply another DSP providing the needed processing power. Same applies to the Microwave Xt (10 voices expandable to 30). After Waldorf's company re-launch, the old Qs (branded as "Phoenix edition") got dynamic voice allocation with no guaranteed polyphony, just with "up to" figures depending on patch complexity. However, this is not the entire truth as the microQ and the Q+ already introduced dynamic allocation before the first Waldorf company went bankrupt AFAIK. The companies were advertising their synths with astronomically high voice counts. As we all know today, those numbers were plain bs, based on simple patches with the lowest possible complexity. The "up to" numbers couldn't be reached in reality. The Q+ / Q Phoenix were supposed to allow more than 100 voices, the microQ up to 25 (up to 75 with the "Omega" upgrade), the Virus TI 1st gen up to 80ish etc., but those numbers wouldn't really be reached in "normal" use, except somebody is only working with the simplest patches. An especially "tragic" example is the Waldorf Blofeld, whose hardware (CPU/MCU and DSP) is so drastically underpowered (in fact, it has got even less processing power than the older microQ, which has essentially got the same engine and was supposed to provide the same polyphony) that it's actually barely possible to even reach the promised "up to" 25 voices. When taking into account that the Blofeld was initially announced as providing up to 50 voices, the actual truth makes those claims even more ridiculous. They've not only had to lower the promised polyphony, they've also had to entirely drop some synthesis features, like the 2 suboscillators per voice (when using wavetables,), because the Blofelds hardware couldn't simply take it, but the microQ could and did provide those features. On the other side, the Blofeld, despite its cheap, underpowered and inferior hardware, was still good enough to be a top seller and certainly saved the company from a second demise. Now we're going back from dynamic voice allocation to fixed polyphony, from processing power dependancy back to hard-coded features, what a nice twist. It feels like a majorly bad decision is going to be fixed and we're going back to proven and apparently better concepts, this time with a different technology. Let's also not forget that Freescale/Motorola is going to take the old DSPs out of production, DSP model after DSP model. This 56xxxx model range is very old and outdated by now, it consists of those very DSPs which are used in the old Waldors, some new Waldorfs, Viruses, Kemper Profilers and many other digital synths of the last 20+ years. Those DSPs will reach their EOL deadline soon, so the manufacturers simlly have to look for alternatives. Either they will switch to other technologies or they will be forced to cease production. By the way, the Quantum (besides its analog filters) and also the new Iridium are both DSP-based.
My favorite trance and EBM artists like Infected Mushroom, Wumpscut and Icon of Coil all have used Virus in the past to get signature sounds which is why I bought one as getting that sound is tough on modular or a Moog synthesizer. The arp on the Virus is the best I have ever seen and used in a hardware synth to get amazing textures and songs cooking fast. Filters and FX are top notch and many different synth models are superb unbeatable combo.
Creating a hardware digital synth that could easily live as a VST is a huge gamble. To bring a hardware synth to life, you have to design an architecture, get the manufacturing process down and know exactly where all your parts are being either sourced from or working with a board manufacturer who has them in stock... and you'll still need your own team for the final assembly and QA. With a VST, it's completely software code. Nothing has to be physically designed, manufactured, packaged and distributed. With a VST it's all about knowledge and programming talent. A cheap, modern PC can easily emulate my old Kurzweil K2000RS... probably several instances of it to be honest. That's that's been the growth of processing power since the late 1980's and mid 90's.
2:01 “There are sone things digital synths can’t so that modular synths can.” I can’t think of anything off the top of my head. Maybe that some complex routing would be alias free but the trade off with analog is having a bunch of noise in the signal. Otherwise I can’t think of anything else that an analog modular synth can do that a digital synth can’t be programmed to do. Even the nuances of analog, while tedious to measure and codify, are able to be approximated. Meanwhile there are plenty of things you can do in the digital domain that are impossible in the analog world like sampling, granular synthesis, spectral synthesis, additive resynthesis, physical modeling, variable phase modulation, or wavetable synthesis.
Virus developer recently said he was not working on any future Virus releases, since he's developing guitar amps. We do not know if FPGA is of any interest to him ATM. Waldorf will release Kyra in 2019 and after users will discover all its potential we will appreciate how this synth will influence the future of music. I hope we will hear a lot of new sounds then, because that is the true power of digital synthesizer.
11:50 this video was made in March so I’m not sure if this was changed. I perused the manual and didn’t see anything about uploading user wavetables. I could’ve missed that section though.
What do you think of the Roland Aira series? I think it is really cool how they integrate with the computer. I have the System 1 and they added oscillators to the synth since it is all digital with an update. It also can load up presets from different plugins made by roland that have the "plug out technology" and the knobs and faders on the synth change to correspond with the knobs and faders of the plugin patch you loaded onto the synth from the computer
Kyra has 8 outputs. 8 outputs is 2x 4 outputs for 5.1 sound. The 1 of 5.1 = sub. And the center channel is speech. So it is the ultimate scape maker for film.
Agree with your sentiments 1 billion kagillion % Lots of things in life are cyclical. Analog is a thing again. Quality VST's are twelve for ten cents. Bottom line is that we now have more options than ever to satisfy how, why we make music. Yes...There is just something really unique with the Virus sound. Kyra has so much potential, the specs are super duper, and the asking price is actually reasonable. We'll see what happens after folks get their hands on it, and actually start making sounds and music. Hopefully this will inspire a shift away from the Kemper stuff back to the Virus...and we'll get the long awaited Ti3.
I think it's a bummer that Kyra is not rack mountable. It is even desktop format, just a letdown for me but I'll see what the Kyra has to offer anyway... I could not live without my digital synths Virus C, JP8080, NL3, Waldorf Q and XT. Yes there are VSTs for much cheaper but it's just so much fun using hardware. I really hope Access will release a TI3 sooner or later. I would not even be mad if it's not a TI3 but something completely new from Access
same here as a new Virus TI2 Darkstar owner, the hardware is fantastic but crude user interface and broken TI plugin software are letdowns. Synth is still fantastic and in many ways unbeatable in 2023. I can only imagine what would be possible if Kemper Access Music put effort into a new modern synth with color OLED screen that works with current Mac OS X software instead of their amp modeler.
The Peak was one of the first commercial FPGA synths but it's hybrid. I think we're figuring out DSP designs on FPGAs. The guy that make the Valkyrie is a signal guy and it took him years to make the platform and then a year to make a synth on it. You've probably seen that video. Assuming no patents etc, I think we'll see FPGA knowledge grow from this. Also, smartphones killed DSP afaik. Agree with you about the Virus in general, looking forward to the Kyra. Hope the patches and case improve.
I have 3 hardware synths, Novation Nova, Roland JP8080 and a Virus Snow. I love them all. However, I do agree there isn't any modern hardware synths that scream innovation. More like iterations. I believe the main reason is cost vs the progress and development and quantity of VST Instruments that are available. The midi controller market has moved forward loads in the last 10 years and are more integrated with software than ever. An example of a recent VSTi I bought recently was the Plugin Boutique's Carbon Electra. I paid £23 UK for it in a sale. I didn't need it but I bought it because it was so cheap. That is the point. Although VST Instruments do vary in price, you are always going to get more value for money and they will always work with a modern midi controller. If that is what is available to us now, why would a manufacturer invest in developing a hardware synth that will be less powerful than a VSTi? They are more likely to lose money because there is less demand.
I have the same thought, for example the modular Clavia synthesizers (Nordmodular) were incredible and stopped being developed and updated, a shame because today even an updated Clavia series synthesizer would be a top seller. Thank you very much for this reflection !
I think it's hard for companies to develop and manufacture new digital synths because they can be replaced by soft synth + good midi controller/master keyboard? All those analog/modular synths still can claim that it's something that can't be fully replaced by software but how should they market a new digital synth?
I'd be interested in hearing an update to this. To me, the Kyra just didn't have enough going for it to justify it as a hit. The limited modulation capability (
Sadowick! This video is awesome. I just found out about the Kyra today and I'm amazed. Your video made me realize how much the Virus and my Ultranova have in common. The Rectify distortion that you mentioned pre- and post- filter is also on the Ultranova. It seems like Novation was influenced by Access when they designed that synth. After hearing your enthusiasm over digital synths I'm curious how you feel about the Hydrasynth?
I wonder how many people know how cool 'multi-timbral' actually is? Kyra has 8 synths in one box, playing at the same time each with their own effects! - amazing - Or just totally expected for 2019... :)
I am cautiously optomistic about that price of 2k. I seem to remember the Quantum price was going to be around 3k, it shot up to 4k. With all the buzz about it being a Virus replacement I worry it will cost Virus dollars, 3-3.5k minimum. Hope I am wrong.
There will be no new ground breaking digital synths. SHARC DSP chips now are ARM based(old architecture is outdated) and cant match PC performance. For instance new waldorf synth could run on ipad apart analog filters and virus could be easily ported to VST. If you want interesting sound manipulation then try IRCAM or GRM tools effects or go modular.
I would definitely buy 1U rack mount Virus TI, that could be chained with my desktop module for additional DSP power... but I guess, that's never going to happen :(
we had NSynth, but it was given up on by google I think it was and made open source, but nobody has figured out how to make that customizable and usable in a online environment which would make it cool.
it doesn't look like it will have nearly as deep modulation capabilities. at least that's what I gathered from demos and online forums. the Hydrasynth looks like a contender against Serum though.
@@patrickmichael2968 192khz D/A converters to the analogue outs but 44.1 or 48khz internally if using the USB audio Personally I prefer using the analogue outs into my ur824 and keeping my DAW at 96khz That said with my DAW at 96khz the virus will still send audio into DAW via USB
Well... I think they are mending their past mistakes and short comings like the Blofield lack of updates and fixes that were long being cried about by owners... they recently released a MAJOR improvement and update for the Quantums firmware. You can read about it here : www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/waldorf-quantum-synth-gets-major-update-kernel-synthesis-engine/
In short: In DSP synths like the Virus, the polyphony is dependent from the processing power, in FPGA synths like the Kyra, the polyphony is hard-coded and therefore fixed / guaranteed, no matter the patch complexity.
It's essentially a dedicated digital hardware, each voice has got its own logic gates and stuff, just like analog synths have dedicated analog circuitry per voice.
The funny thing is that back in the day, dynamic voice allocation depending on available processing power was being sold to the customers as something modern and innovative, like something being much better than fixed polyphony.
Example: The original Waldorf Q had fixed and guaranteed 16 voices, which could be expanded to 32 guaranteed voices. The expansion board was simply another DSP providing the needed processing power. Same applies to the Microwave Xt (10 voices expandable to 30).
After Waldorf's company re-launch, the old Qs (branded as "Phoenix edition") got dynamic voice allocation with no guaranteed polyphony, just with "up to" figures depending on patch complexity.
However, this is not the entire truth as the microQ and the Q+ already introduced dynamic allocation before the first Waldorf company went bankrupt AFAIK.
The companies were advertising their synths with astronomically high voice counts. As we all know today, those numbers were plain bs, based on simple patches with the lowest possible complexity. The "up to" numbers couldn't be reached in reality. The Q+ / Q Phoenix were supposed to allow more than 100 voices, the microQ up to 25 (up to 75 with the "Omega" upgrade), the Virus TI 1st gen up to 80ish etc., but those numbers wouldn't really be reached in "normal" use, except somebody is only working with the simplest patches.
An especially "tragic" example is the Waldorf Blofeld, whose hardware (CPU/MCU and DSP) is so drastically underpowered (in fact, it has got even less processing power than the older microQ, which has essentially got the same engine and was supposed to provide the same polyphony) that it's actually barely possible to even reach the promised "up to" 25 voices. When taking into account that the Blofeld was initially announced as providing up to 50 voices, the actual truth makes those claims even more ridiculous. They've not only had to lower the promised polyphony, they've also had to entirely drop some synthesis features, like the 2 suboscillators per voice (when using wavetables,), because the Blofelds hardware couldn't simply take it, but the microQ could and did provide those features.
On the other side, the Blofeld, despite its cheap, underpowered and inferior hardware, was still good enough to be a top seller and certainly saved the company from a second demise.
Now we're going back from dynamic voice allocation to fixed polyphony, from processing power dependancy back to hard-coded features, what a nice twist. It feels like a majorly bad decision is going to be fixed and we're going back to proven and apparently better concepts, this time with a different technology.
Let's also not forget that Freescale/Motorola is going to take the old DSPs out of production, DSP model after DSP model. This 56xxxx model range is very old and outdated by now, it consists of those very DSPs which are used in the old Waldors, some new Waldorfs, Viruses, Kemper Profilers and many other digital synths of the last 20+ years. Those DSPs will reach their EOL deadline soon, so the manufacturers simlly have to look for alternatives. Either they will switch to other technologies or they will be forced to cease production.
By the way, the Quantum (besides its analog filters) and also the new Iridium are both DSP-based.
thank you for informing
My favorite trance and EBM artists like Infected Mushroom, Wumpscut and Icon of Coil all have used Virus in the past to get signature sounds which is why I bought one as getting that sound is tough on modular or a Moog synthesizer. The arp on the Virus is the best I have ever seen and used in a hardware synth to get amazing textures and songs cooking fast. Filters and FX are top notch and many different synth models are superb unbeatable combo.
Creating a hardware digital synth that could easily live as a VST is a huge gamble. To bring a hardware synth to life, you have to design an architecture, get the manufacturing process down and know exactly where all your parts are being either sourced from or working with a board manufacturer who has them in stock... and you'll still need your own team for the final assembly and QA. With a VST, it's completely software code. Nothing has to be physically designed, manufactured, packaged and distributed. With a VST it's all about knowledge and programming talent. A cheap, modern PC can easily emulate my old Kurzweil K2000RS... probably several instances of it to be honest. That's that's been the growth of processing power since the late 1980's and mid 90's.
2:01 “There are sone things digital synths can’t so that modular synths can.”
I can’t think of anything off the top of my head. Maybe that some complex routing would be alias free but the trade off with analog is having a bunch of noise in the signal.
Otherwise I can’t think of anything else that an analog modular synth can do that a digital synth can’t be programmed to do. Even the nuances of analog, while tedious to measure and codify, are able to be approximated.
Meanwhile there are plenty of things you can do in the digital domain that are impossible in the analog world like sampling, granular synthesis, spectral synthesis, additive resynthesis, physical modeling, variable phase modulation, or wavetable synthesis.
Virus developer recently said he was not working on any future Virus releases, since he's developing guitar amps. We do not know if FPGA is of any interest to him ATM. Waldorf will release Kyra in 2019 and after users will discover all its potential we will appreciate how this synth will influence the future of music. I hope we will hear a lot of new sounds then, because that is the true power of digital synthesizer.
Still love my darkstar ti2 ❤️
Me too :)
sadowick predicted the udo
11:50 this video was made in March so I’m not sure if this was changed. I perused the manual and didn’t see anything about uploading user wavetables. I could’ve missed that section though.
What do you think of the Roland Aira series? I think it is really cool how they integrate with the computer. I have the System 1 and they added oscillators to the synth since it is all digital with an update. It also can load up presets from different plugins made by roland that have the "plug out technology" and the knobs and faders on the synth change to correspond with the knobs and faders of the plugin patch you loaded onto the synth from the computer
Kyra has 8 outputs. 8 outputs is 2x 4 outputs for 5.1 sound. The 1 of 5.1 = sub. And the center channel is speech. So it is the ultimate scape maker for film.
Agree with your sentiments 1 billion kagillion % Lots of things in life are cyclical. Analog is a thing again. Quality VST's are twelve for ten cents. Bottom line is that we now have more options than ever to satisfy how, why we make music. Yes...There is just something really unique with the Virus sound. Kyra has so much potential, the specs are super duper, and the asking price is actually reasonable. We'll see what happens after folks get their hands on it, and actually start making sounds and music. Hopefully this will inspire a shift away from the Kemper stuff back to the Virus...and we'll get the long awaited Ti3.
I think it's a bummer that Kyra is not rack mountable. It is even desktop format, just a letdown for me but I'll see what the Kyra has to offer anyway... I could not live without my digital synths Virus C, JP8080, NL3, Waldorf Q and XT. Yes there are VSTs for much cheaper but it's just so much fun using hardware. I really hope Access will release a TI3 sooner or later. I would not even be mad if it's not a TI3 but something completely new from Access
same here as a new Virus TI2 Darkstar owner, the hardware is fantastic but crude user interface and broken TI plugin software are letdowns. Synth is still fantastic and in many ways unbeatable in 2023. I can only imagine what would be possible if Kemper Access Music put effort into a new modern synth with color OLED screen that works with current Mac OS X software instead of their amp modeler.
The Peak was one of the first commercial FPGA synths but it's hybrid. I think we're figuring out DSP designs on FPGAs. The guy that make the Valkyrie is a signal guy and it took him years to make the platform and then a year to make a synth on it. You've probably seen that video. Assuming no patents etc, I think we'll see FPGA knowledge grow from this. Also, smartphones killed DSP afaik. Agree with you about the Virus in general, looking forward to the Kyra. Hope the patches and case improve.
If you haven't checked them yet, check out the Mutable Instruments stuff in modular, incredible digital stuff :)
I have 3 hardware synths, Novation Nova, Roland JP8080 and a Virus Snow. I love them all. However, I do agree there isn't any modern hardware synths that scream innovation. More like iterations. I believe the main reason is cost vs the progress and development and quantity of VST Instruments that are available. The midi controller market has moved forward loads in the last 10 years and are more integrated with software than ever. An example of a recent VSTi I bought recently was the Plugin Boutique's Carbon Electra. I paid £23 UK for it in a sale. I didn't need it but I bought it because it was so cheap. That is the point. Although VST Instruments do vary in price, you are always going to get more value for money and they will always work with a modern midi controller. If that is what is available to us now, why would a manufacturer invest in developing a hardware synth that will be less powerful than a VSTi? They are more likely to lose money because there is less demand.
Do you know how many patches or presets the Waldorf Kara will come with.
Thanks, that was cool :)
Brent! Do you have drum packs available? I love your sound I also teach on Ableton, more lofi trap stuff
I have the same thought, for example the modular Clavia synthesizers (Nordmodular) were incredible and stopped being developed and updated, a shame because today even an updated Clavia series synthesizer would be a top seller.
Thank you very much for this reflection !
Take a look at Percussa SSP system 8 you'd like that too.
I think it's hard for companies to develop and manufacture new digital synths because they can be replaced by soft synth + good midi controller/master keyboard? All those analog/modular synths still can claim that it's something that can't be fully replaced by software but how should they market a new digital synth?
I'd be interested in hearing an update to this. To me, the Kyra just didn't have enough going for it to justify it as a hit. The limited modulation capability (
john bowen solaris - you wont need anything else
Sadowick! This video is awesome. I just found out about the Kyra today and I'm amazed. Your video made me realize how much the Virus and my Ultranova have in common. The Rectify distortion that you mentioned pre- and post- filter is also on the Ultranova. It seems like Novation was influenced by Access when they designed that synth. After hearing your enthusiasm over digital synths I'm curious how you feel about the Hydrasynth?
I don't use my Virus Classic often, but i do love its sound! I would really like to get a Virus C or TI someday!
I wonder how many people know how cool 'multi-timbral' actually is? Kyra has 8 synths in one box, playing at the same time each with their own effects! - amazing - Or just totally expected for 2019... :)
I am cautiously optomistic about that price of 2k. I seem to remember the Quantum price was going to be around 3k, it shot up to 4k. With all the buzz about it being a Virus replacement I worry it will cost Virus dollars, 3-3.5k minimum. Hope I am wrong.
Richard Lambou , you can get it for 3k if you look hard
There will be no new ground breaking digital synths. SHARC DSP chips now are ARM based(old architecture is outdated) and cant match PC performance. For instance new waldorf synth could run on ipad apart analog filters and virus could be easily ported to VST. If you want interesting sound manipulation then try IRCAM or GRM tools effects or go modular.
true and which is why I went down the modular route in spite of high cost as more innovation and choice exists in eurorack synths today.
I would definitely buy 1U rack mount Virus TI, that could be chained with my desktop module for additional DSP power... but I guess, that's never going to happen :(
we had NSynth, but it was given up on by google I think it was and made open source, but nobody has figured out how to make that customizable and usable in a online environment which would make it cool.
Your style is like a perfect representation of what we call "Waldschrat". (=...Hobgoblin?). It's funny. If I had no wife, I'd also be one :-D
Reed Crisis awas
But will Waldorf KYRA be better then serum is what I want to know
it doesn't look like it will have nearly as deep modulation capabilities. at least that's what I gathered from demos and online forums. the Hydrasynth looks like a contender against Serum though.
A virus A is better than serum.......
Excel is a close relative to serum 😁😂
The Waldorf Kyra has 24bit/96k output which you can import to your DAW. What are the Virus TIs highest resolution digital out specs?
@@patrickmichael2968 192khz D/A converters to the analogue outs but 44.1 or 48khz internally if using the USB audio
Personally I prefer using the analogue outs into my ur824 and keeping my DAW at 96khz
That said with my DAW at 96khz the virus will still send audio into DAW via USB
The ceiling.
What do you think of Granulator 2 max for live device. Also can you tell the community about what it can do?
How are you doing?
Elektron Dikitone
I take it this dude has a cold ..or lives somewhere that is very cold ?
waldorf are so janky on their firmware, half of it never works........
Well... I think they are mending their past mistakes and short comings like the Blofield lack of updates and fixes that were long being cried about by owners... they recently released a MAJOR improvement and update for the Quantums firmware. You can read about it here :
www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/waldorf-quantum-synth-gets-major-update-kernel-synthesis-engine/
Waldorf is better, Korg and Novation. Elektron is overpriced so I don't know about them
that's a good line up there. I can vouch for Elektron's Machine Drum though, check that thing out