I think you hit the nail on the head. Integrated armor is better/easier on leisurely adv trips. Especially when you will be passing through and stopping in towns. Armor suits are better when you are in the thick of it trying your hardest or it’s the hottest out.
@@JohannesDalen yes still loving it. Got to really try it last weekend for about 300 miles total. Wore it with both a light and med weight merino base layer under it. Another thing is it doesn’t feel as heavy as the jacket with integrated armor which fatigues you less. I think it’s because the elbow pads are held tight to your elbows instead of being slightly loose and pulling down on your shoulders from the sleeves of the jacket. I could tell my shoulders were less fatigued than with the jacket and I had thought it was my backpack causing it. But I may be wrong.
@@michaelbarber6215 I’m stoked to hear that my friend, awesome! Interesting thoughts about shoulder fatigue, I experience fatigue in my right shoulder pretty much every ride, with or without a backpack, but more pain with a backpack. Just bought a Kriega with a special buckle system - no weight is placed on my shoulders. Will report back when I have sufficient saddle time with it.
The KNOX urban Pro 2 does both , it’s abrasion and impact resistant. So GREAT for on and off road . I would only use the chest part for the forcefield over my KNOX if doing VERY Snotty riding .
I’ve had that recommended many times - I wish someone sold it in a store here in Norway - I don’t like to order things that are supposed to fit tightly online. I’ve since making this video sold the FF and bought a protective shirt from a local store. Less protective but so much more comfortable to put on and use. Not going back 😁 Thanks for the tip anyhow, I’ll keep my eyes open for it when I travel to other countries where they sell it!
I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly. Depending on the type of riding that someone will be doing on any given day, it is in each person’s best interest to think through the riding intent for that day (or that week), plan the gear accordingly, then execute the plan methodically. The application of your military and police experiences gives you an excellent foundation that serves you well in many motorcycling scenarios. You have an excellent channel!!
Great assessment! Apart from considering whether the gear is suited for the the type of riding, I believe there is a psychologic factor as well, at least for me. I feel way more confident riding off-road when wearing a body armour rather than a jacket, regardless if it's either just a nice gravel road or a gnarly single track. It's a matter of mindset that could get you out of trouble sometimes. Keep up the great work!
Hello there Spencer! Motorcycle talk is usually very practical and "physical", but I really enjoy the psychological aspect of this as well, so thanks for chiming in. I think that makes perfect sense, if you're properly protected that's one less thing to worry about when your about to tackle something a bit nasty. Thanks for the kind words Spencer!
Johannes you are absolutely correct in your points re built in armour convenience. The only problem comes when you are going on an adventure in which you are going to encounter dramatic changes in temperature during any particular day. For instance doing the TAT I spent half the time without a jacket because of desert temperatures so that resulted having to wear an external armour suit covered by a breathable riding shirt. When temperatures dropped, I could then put a jacket over the top. I have a Forcefield kit just like you but I do find it heavy, stiff and uncomfortable compared to built in D30 or D30 Ghost in jackets and it was/is a pain whenever I stop at a cafe as you say. There is no easy answer, protection v mobility and comfort has been an armour problem for over 4000 years and it is still with us today, materials have changed but the central problem has not! I think I am going to move to a D30 shirt like the Demon Protection X Force D30 which was actually designed for snow boarders.
Hello James and thank you for commenting - you are absolutely right. The versatility of having external armor regarding heat regulation is very nice. Regarding the FF EX-K, I have now sold mine and bought a spandex shirt with armor sewn in. This particular one is from a store we only have in Norway & Sweden, a lot like Walmart, but this shirt felt really nice with triple stitching and level 2 armor. Going from the FF to this one is a complete game changer for me. I used to dread wearing the FF, it was so cumbersome almost to the point of ruining the riding. This new shirt with armor makes it just so much better. Less protective, but protection is not everything, especially if it is prohibiting movement. If you want, I can make a quick video showing the new shirt and explaining my thoughts behind the purchase?
In my opinion that was a very thorough and honest assessment of the two types of armor. I am considering buying this exact armor with the intent of only wearing it during totally off road days when I'm pushing myself or am riding alone. On more casual adventure style rides I would wear a jacket and pants with integrated armor. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Michael. I have since making this video sold the upper body armor. The Forcefield EX-K is extremely protective, but it is cumbersome to put on and wear. I bought a mesh shirt with sewn in protection. It is not as protective, but it is very easy to use and adds much less bulk. Thanks for watching!
I also have a shirt with sewn in protection which is made by Klim. I agree, it very comfortable but less protective. I’m still undecided. Thanks for your response.
Im currently in the market for a summer kit, i have my Dri-rider coat, but for summer riding and single track, its very easy to overheat and dread the ride instead of enjoying it. Im currently looking at a Fox Titan armour jacket, with a new jersey on top for those summer rides. anything thats adv , or less physically demanding, i can put my coat back on. Easy.
We also share the same vision on the interest of external and integrated protection. I arrived at the following result which seems quite balanced to me, I use the dainese D explorer 2 set which is a hyper ventilated jacket for off road sections and the vents that close allow you to get back on the road at a pace without too much chill. For the back protection I use the Pro armor in addition which is very flexible in movement and very ventilated going down to the coccyx. And what a pleasure to get rid of your clothes quickly during breaks, and especially the ability to regulate the temperature thanks to the vents, when in boots I use Forma adventure because they allow me to walk and comfortably visit the sites discovered during the trips. Finally, I'm in favor of riding with clothes that are comfortable to wear, very ventilated (off road in Morocco is hotter than your attitude), and of reducing the pace to protect yourself from a fall. heavy and make the most of the trip, let's be careful, even on a 701.
Sounds like a great setup Mohcine! Being comfortable is very important, if you’re constantly battling heat and being restricted in your movement, you’ll not only going to have a bad time, but it can result in a crash. Ride safe my friend!
Integrated armor all the way. I think you should do some video blog rides since you are in Norway. Would love to see more of the country as I have family there but have never been.
Thanks for the comment and feedback - I bought a Gopro a little over a month ago to show some trail rides, but I really didn’t like having the camera with me when riding. It was something I was constantly thinking about and I didn’t enjoy the riding at all. Riding is priority. What I do want to do is buy a drone, so when I get to a nice site I could send it up and show how beautiful this country is with drone shots. I can also show more just capturing with my phone as well. Where in Norway does your family live? 🙂
@@grayman618 That's really cool, its far from where I live, but a lifelong friend of my parents live in Toten. Toten is filled with beautiful countryside, a lot of farms and agriculture.
@@JohannesDalen someday I'd like to go and see it. It seems like your country has a lot to offer. You should check out the channel gottogo she does some amazing video blogs while traveling the world on a motorcycle.
Thanks for the update. I always wear external armour, even just going to the shops haha. My only annoying situation is I have to ride ~30min for good off-road riding and I'm always trying to decide if I should take my street jacket over the top of armour/jersey for that 30min of street either way.. It won't fit in my hydration pack and I don't want to strap it to the bike.. I have gone without it but felt very unsafe on the road, so I'll take it and hide it at the start of a trail in a tree & collect it on my way out. But this brings another problem of having to backtrack the trail to retrieve my jacket. So I can't just pop out somewhere else and ride home.
Interesting, what about having a slightly bigger backpack that can take you jacket as well? A big backpack while trail riding is no fun, but motorcycle packs now have become so good that I don't feel them on my back anymore. I have a USWE and a Kriega, they both have this special harness that puts all the weight off my shoulders and the pack hugs my back nicely. I bring my lunch and a thermos with coffee as well 😀
I always wear my Alpinestars A-10 beneath my Klim Carlsbad Jacket which i removed all integrated Armour from. The Reason is to take of my Jacket if I get to Trails and to put on some Jersey without loosing my Protection. It saves so much Energy to ride in some cooler Gear instead some Gore Tex Jacket (Offroad) and the Hassle to get it on is worth it so much because of this.
Thanks for sharing my friend. I have been looking for a lightweight, waterproof jacket to use over my body armor instead of having to bring rain gear, but I haven’t thought about removing the armor in my Carlsbad before you mentioned it now! Interesting - sounds like a very good combination. Is it the newest version of the Carlsbad you have?
@@JohannesDalen Yep its the 2020 Carsbad and I am totally happy with it. So you have some lightweight Raingear with some small packing Size with you that you can easily stow somewhere if you go Offroad. I even sold the inner Protection of the Carlsbad on Ebay for about 100 Euro. I am dressed up like Base Layer -> Alpinestars A-10 -> Jersey -> Carlsbad Jacket, this worked the best for me up to now.
Good to hear you’re happy with it. I bought the previous version at 50% of the price, and was extremely happy with it, and I couldn’t image the new version being any better - but that was until I got to see it in the store. What a jacket! Sounds like a sweet setup. For now I’m happy with the integrated armor in the Carlsbad 🙂
Hi Johannes! I have the same EX-K harness, but haven't bought a jacket yet. Did you have to size up on the Klim Dakar jacket or did you go with your normal size? Thanks for the great videos!
Hello there! If I’m not mistaken, the Dakar is already a little extra roomy so you can fit armor underneath. I have XL in the Dakar jacket, and I have XL in my Marrakesh jacket too, so I actually went with the same size and it fits very well. Awesome jacket, you’ll love it 🙂 thanks for your question
dress for the crash. which is basically what you said. how you gear up should depend on what type of riding you're doing, your likelihood of crashing, and what kind of terrain you'll be crashing on. The problem with dual sport, is in the name, lol. street and trail riding, which have different risks. ride safe.
Great video Johannes. I really appreciate how you reply to all your comments. Well done. I'm from Melbourne Australia, and sometimes have to ride 1.5-4 hours to hit the dirt. I am in the market for some new "duel sport" gear. I traditionally put my enduro bikes on a trailer but have recently bought a CRF300L (which I love btw) so I need some gear that will suit both road and dirt. I totally agree with your conclusion, unfortunately there is no perfect gear for all situations!! I really like the idea of wearing external armor under the Klim Dakar, but I noticed it is not AA rated, in fact, I cannot see a rating at all! I was thinking of wearing my Fox Titan armor under this jacket, but now I am thinking of getting a jacket and pant that is AA rated. Do you recommend any AA rated over armor jacket and pants? Or do you think the Klim Dakar range is great for both street and offroad? Many thanks!
Also sorry, I forgot to mention, what are your thoughts on the Klim Marrakesh Jacket, them removing the armor so its effectively a shell jacked with 1000D protection?
Hello there, appreciate that you point that out, I try my best to get back to everyone! Actually I test rode the 300L for the first time yesterday (I’m in Portugal), and it’s such a great bike, good choice. Since I made this video I have sold the Dakar jacket. I really liked it, but because the weather in Norway is so unpredictable, I wanted a jacket that was waterproof as well, so I bought the Mosko Moto Basilisk. If you use external rain gear, pretty much any jacket will do, you just take out the armor and use it over your external armor. Again I really enjoyed my Dakar jacket, with all the vents and pockets. As you say there’s a compromise, so yes the Dakar could be safer on the road, but it would most likely be heavier. Regarding the Marrakesh, I’ve owned that too. Excellent jacket, super comfortable with its stretch. For dual sport riding I think twigs and branches could snag on the weave pattern of the fabric, I’d rather use something like the Dakar. I recommend you take a look at Adventure Spec as well, they use the layering approach and have some really interesting jackets. Hope this was helpful 😊
@@JohannesDalen Thank you, will do! Have you looked into the Alpinestars Halo jacket and pants? I like the idea of this, but still think it might get too hot here in Australia.
I've been pondering the same question. I have the typical armored jacket setup, but I sweat like a hostage when it's hot outside. I'm thinking I'll do an armor and jersey setup for really hot days on the back roads and when I'm doing training.
Armor, jersey and a jacket on top is my go-to now. Riding offroad in a jersey is beautiful, just strap the jacket to the rear of the bike and continue well ventilated 😊
I just saw this video in my feed. I'm glad I watched because it's a topic dear to my heart. I crash test motorcycle gear independently as a hobby and share my results with riders and manufacturers for free. Anyway I used to be an adventure rider but now almost entirely off-road because I live in the mountains of Mongolia 8km to the nearest paved road. My riding is grassy slopes and forests with embedded rocks. There's a good chance when I fall that I'll land on pointy rocks. I considered the Forcefield EX-K but I decided hard-armour would be a better choice for pointy rocks. CE doesn't test with pointy impactors. I got the Leatt 5.5 jacket. I find it easy enough to put on an off. Not much more than a tight jacket. Ventilation is great - sometimes too much - so I tend to layer under or over. I ride all winter for short rides around my mountains. One thing most people don't understand and I witnessed in my tests, is that armour is MUCH more abrasion resistant than textiles. You can crash multiple times on armour (if it's external) and it will probably never wear through. Your EK-K harness, where the armour is, has probably 20x times more abrasion resistant than your Klim jackets outer fabric. I often don't understand why they don't put armour on the outside of textile jackets because it would save the jacket from wearing through in pretty much any slide.
Hi there Martin, that is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I definitely agree with you, without having any proofs. The armoured jackets will help in a slide, makes perfect sense. I’m not sure how much softer armor like D30 will help, but the hard plastics will for sure.
@@JohannesDalen I did some tests to see actually how well soft armour would do for abrasion. It's better than most would think. I drop tested dyneema denim (used in single layer denim jeans) with D30 LP2 armour (it's 14mm thick) and also SAS-TEC level 2 (also 14mm thick). The Dyneema denim failed at 8m distance (D3o) from impact and 9m (SAS-TEC) from impact, then I kept going to see how long the armor would last. It was around 200 metres! This is on medium grade asphalt (good condition), drop weight was 6kg from 1 metre height using a hemispherical shaped sample holder to approximate a joint (knee, elbow, shoulder). I essentially replicate the Cambridge method of impact abrasion but change 3 things: I add a realistic impact (1 meter instead of 5cm), change the shape of the sample from flat to an anatomical dome shape, also I do drop and stop on an actual road surface (usually 45km/h to 0km/h in 18 metres distance). If a sample hasn't failed, I repeat the drops until it does. I did about 100 drops testing everything from standard denim to race cowhide and everything in between. FYI, the worst performers were standard denim and any textiles, failing in 1 metres to 4 metres. The best performers were 2 layers of race grade cowhide (1.4mm) which achieved 200+ metres and more than 11 consecutive impacts. I'm sitting on a lot of data and I need to publish it to a wider audience. I'll get to it eventually. Anyway, the good news is, if your textile fails on or close to impact, your armour will be protect you for any probable accident, assuming a decent thickness and you are sliding on your armour. Only a freak accident would breach the armour, like being dragged by a truck who can't hear your screams. The reason armour is so good is simple physics: mass, thickness and tensile strength. It abrades slowly and predictably while holding together well enough. Compared to a typical 500d nylon used in adventure jackets, D30 LP2 is 13 times heavier (per m/2) and 35 times thicker. It's also the reason why cowhide does well (mass and thickness) which helps to spread surface pressure under impact and sliding.
Hey Johannes, is this approach still valid as of today? I am planning doing lots of TET and paved back roads i would say 50/50 between them. What is the best “do it all” in one set up for summer? Under Armour + outer shells or integrated klim mesh suit?
Hey Elion! The approach/philosophy of use is the same. I have two setups for different kinds of riding, but the gear itself had changed. For summer riding on offroad I think external armor + shell is better. Better protection and you have the ability to take off the outer jacket and that will be much cooler. I will upload a video in a few days with a new pant I’ve bought that is amazing and will fit in an external armor approach well 😊
@@JohannesDalen i think it will be too annoying to put every piece of armor in the morning. Im thinking of purchasing a Klim Baja S4 (mesh suit for hot weather) and a goretex waterproof layer on top of it
I get that, and that’s the biggest drawback with external armor. You’ll quickly get used to it, at least that’s my experience. I feel naked with just the armor in the jacket, nothing to protect the chest etc.
What is your thoughts on hard vs soft armor on the torso? And what pants are you using... you can just drop your pants when riding trails as you can your jacket 😉
I assume by hard you mean plastic like a roost deflector, and soft like the Forcefield I’m wearing in the video? I’ve never used hard armor on the torso, and my impression is that it’s mostly mx riders who do. For laid back adventure riding I think soft, pliable and lightweight armor is the way to go. The Forcefield is too bulky, hot and big, so I’m in the market for something less restrictive. What do you wear? I’ve been using the Klim Dakar pants, and they have been awesome. Would love if they could be a tad morr stretchy, but then they would be less protective 🙂
@@JohannesDalenhi, i branched out from street riding to dual sporting (TET in sweden), so for my first season I used my street summer gear - macna mesh jackets and pants. Bought a pair of used Forma Predator boots though to protect my feet. Now I am prepating for next season, bought the Leatt dual-axiss kneeguards... they dont fit into my street pants though... so I need new mesh pants... the ball is rolling now, you see ;) In hard armor I have been looking at the leatt range 4.5 to 6.5 fullbody armor... But I guess its too much protecting for me.. and to heavy, uncomfortable for all-day tides and to hot. I am looking the hardest at the adventure spec stuff now... With a forcefield armored underjacket... Klim Marrakesh also looks nice... very stretchy... but the price is just too high for me 🙂
@@usbsol I have the Leatt knee protectors as well - easily my favorite out of all that I’ve tried, but requires the pant to have a lot of space for it underneath. I’ve heard the Adventure Spec pants have a much bigger knee space than the Klim Dakar, for around the same price. When it comes to upper body protection I’m waiting for Adventure Spec to release their mesh jacket with protection pads in, it looks very agile and not too big. The Forcefield armor I have is as mentioned too much for me. The Marrakesh stuff is awesome for laid back adventure riding with armor in it, but if you are looking for a jacket that goes over your upper body protection and jersey, pretty much any cheap jacket will do, as you’re already protected underneath and have separate rain gear!
@@usbsol If you’ve watched their videos or Greg Villalobos videos on YT, they are wearing it. Its looking like dark-grey and it was actually going to be released several months ago, but covid had other plans.
Once again the word compromise appears again, intergrated armour is great but its biggest draw back is it does not always stay in situ, armour on the elbows and knees can move and not protect the area it was designed to protect. External armour on the other hand has a greater chance of staying in place to cover parts like elbows and proper knee braces have very little chance of moving, but they are uncomfortable when it is hot. There is sadly no perfect way, it just means you have to spend the money and try to find what suits you, trial and error.
Putting it elegantly once again sir - I don’t know why, but I do enjoy the topics were there isn’t a definite answer. I like to think, test, tinker, try and fail, and eventually come to a conclusion of some sort. Hopefully this video along with all the brilliant comments can be helpful to someone looking for guidelines. Have a great day 🙂
Just returned to it after a year of no lifting at all. Just came home from a pretty brutal workout with a friend. Thanks for pointing it out, working out in one way or another is something everyone should do. I’m not returning to competitive powerlifting though.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Integrated armor is better/easier on leisurely adv trips. Especially when you will be passing through and stopping in towns. Armor suits are better when you are in the thick of it trying your hardest or it’s the hottest out.
Thank you for commenting Michael, sounds like we agree on this topic. Still happy with your new armor suit?
@@JohannesDalen yes still loving it. Got to really try it last weekend for about 300 miles total. Wore it with both a light and med weight merino base layer under it. Another thing is it doesn’t feel as heavy as the jacket with integrated armor which fatigues you less. I think it’s because the elbow pads are held tight to your elbows instead of being slightly loose and pulling down on your shoulders from the sleeves of the jacket. I could tell my shoulders were less fatigued than with the jacket and I had thought it was my backpack causing it. But I may be wrong.
@@michaelbarber6215 I’m stoked to hear that my friend, awesome!
Interesting thoughts about shoulder fatigue, I experience fatigue in my right shoulder pretty much every ride, with or without a backpack, but more pain with a backpack. Just bought a Kriega with a special buckle system - no weight is placed on my shoulders. Will report back when I have sufficient saddle time with it.
Excellent considerations for both, thank you
The KNOX urban Pro 2 does both , it’s abrasion and impact resistant. So GREAT for on and off road . I would only use the chest part for the forcefield over my KNOX if doing VERY Snotty riding .
I’ve had that recommended many times - I wish someone sold it in a store here in Norway - I don’t like to order things that are supposed to fit tightly online. I’ve since making this video sold the FF and bought a protective shirt from a local store. Less protective but so much more comfortable to put on and use. Not going back 😁 Thanks for the tip anyhow, I’ll keep my eyes open for it when I travel to other countries where they sell it!
I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly. Depending on the type of riding that someone will be doing on any given day, it is in each person’s best interest to think through the riding intent for that day (or that week), plan the gear accordingly, then execute the plan methodically. The application of your military and police experiences gives you an excellent foundation that serves you well in many motorcycling scenarios. You have an excellent channel!!
Well put sir, a good summary. Thank you very much for your kind words Joe!
Great video
Thank you!
Great assessment! Apart from considering whether the gear is suited for the the type of riding, I believe there is a psychologic factor as well, at least for me. I feel way more confident riding off-road when wearing a body armour rather than a jacket, regardless if it's either just a nice gravel road or a gnarly single track. It's a matter of mindset that could get you out of trouble sometimes.
Keep up the great work!
Hello there Spencer! Motorcycle talk is usually very practical and "physical", but I really enjoy the psychological aspect of this as well, so thanks for chiming in. I think that makes perfect sense, if you're properly protected that's one less thing to worry about when your about to tackle something a bit nasty. Thanks for the kind words Spencer!
Hallo Joannes. You can look for Ortema protection. These are very comfortable and easy to put on
Johannes you are absolutely correct in your points re built in armour convenience. The only problem comes when you are going on an adventure in which you are going to encounter dramatic changes in temperature during any particular day. For instance doing the TAT I spent half the time without a jacket because of desert temperatures so that resulted having to wear an external armour suit covered by a breathable riding shirt. When temperatures dropped, I could then put a jacket over the top. I have a Forcefield kit just like you but I do find it heavy, stiff and uncomfortable compared to built in D30 or D30 Ghost in jackets and it was/is a pain whenever I stop at a cafe as you say. There is no easy answer, protection v mobility and comfort has been an armour problem for over 4000 years and it is still with us today, materials have changed but the central problem has not! I think I am going to move to a D30 shirt like the Demon Protection X Force D30 which was actually designed for snow boarders.
Hello James and thank you for commenting - you are absolutely right. The versatility of having external armor regarding heat regulation is very nice.
Regarding the FF EX-K, I have now sold mine and bought a spandex shirt with armor sewn in. This particular one is from a store we only have in Norway & Sweden, a lot like Walmart, but this shirt felt really nice with triple stitching and level 2 armor. Going from the FF to this one is a complete game changer for me. I used to dread wearing the FF, it was so cumbersome almost to the point of ruining the riding. This new shirt with armor makes it just so much better. Less protective, but protection is not everything, especially if it is prohibiting movement.
If you want, I can make a quick video showing the new shirt and explaining my thoughts behind the purchase?
In my opinion that was a very thorough and honest assessment of the two types of armor. I am considering buying this exact armor with the intent of only wearing it during totally off road days when I'm pushing myself or am riding alone. On more casual adventure style rides I would wear a jacket and pants with integrated armor. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Michael. I have since making this video sold the upper body armor. The Forcefield EX-K is extremely protective, but it is cumbersome to put on and wear. I bought a mesh shirt with sewn in protection. It is not as protective, but it is very easy to use and adds much less bulk. Thanks for watching!
I also have a shirt with sewn in protection which is made by Klim. I agree, it very comfortable but less protective. I’m still undecided. Thanks for your response.
Greetings from India, Johannes! Would love to see your review on the Force Field EX harness armor i.e., sizing, comfort. Thanks in advance.
Im currently in the market for a summer kit, i have my Dri-rider coat, but for summer riding and single track, its very easy to overheat and dread the ride instead of enjoying it.
Im currently looking at a Fox Titan armour jacket, with a new jersey on top for those summer rides.
anything thats adv , or less physically demanding, i can put my coat back on. Easy.
We also share the same vision on the interest of external and integrated protection. I arrived at the following result which seems quite balanced to me, I use the dainese D explorer 2 set which is a hyper ventilated jacket for off road sections and the vents that close allow you to get back on the road at a pace without too much chill. For the back protection I use the Pro armor in addition which is very flexible in movement and very ventilated going down to the coccyx. And what a pleasure to get rid of your clothes quickly during breaks, and especially the ability to regulate the temperature thanks to the vents, when in boots I use Forma adventure because they allow me to walk and comfortably visit the sites discovered during the trips. Finally, I'm in favor of riding with clothes that are comfortable to wear, very ventilated (off road in Morocco is hotter than your attitude), and of reducing the pace to protect yourself from a fall. heavy and make the most of the trip, let's be careful, even on a 701.
Sounds like a great setup Mohcine! Being comfortable is very important, if you’re constantly battling heat and being restricted in your movement, you’ll not only going to have a bad time, but it can result in a crash.
Ride safe my friend!
Integrated armor all the way. I think you should do some video blog rides since you are in Norway. Would love to see more of the country as I have family there but have never been.
Thanks for the comment and feedback - I bought a Gopro a little over a month ago to show some trail rides, but I really didn’t like having the camera with me when riding. It was something I was constantly thinking about and I didn’t enjoy the riding at all. Riding is priority.
What I do want to do is buy a drone, so when I get to a nice site I could send it up and show how beautiful this country is with drone shots. I can also show more just capturing with my phone as well.
Where in Norway does your family live? 🙂
@@JohannesDalen hi, my family is from Toten in Oppland County. Is that near where you live?
@@grayman618 That's really cool, its far from where I live, but a lifelong friend of my parents live in Toten. Toten is filled with beautiful countryside, a lot of farms and agriculture.
@@JohannesDalen someday I'd like to go and see it. It seems like your country has a lot to offer. You should check out the channel gottogo she does some amazing video blogs while traveling the world on a motorcycle.
@@grayman618 Thanks for the suggestion - I couldn’t find any channel with that name. Could you please give me a link?
Thanks for the update. I always wear external armour, even just going to the shops haha. My only annoying situation is I have to ride ~30min for good off-road riding and I'm always trying to decide if I should take my street jacket over the top of armour/jersey for that 30min of street either way.. It won't fit in my hydration pack and I don't want to strap it to the bike.. I have gone without it but felt very unsafe on the road, so I'll take it and hide it at the start of a trail in a tree & collect it on my way out. But this brings another problem of having to backtrack the trail to retrieve my jacket. So I can't just pop out somewhere else and ride home.
Interesting, what about having a slightly bigger backpack that can take you jacket as well? A big backpack while trail riding is no fun, but motorcycle packs now have become so good that I don't feel them on my back anymore. I have a USWE and a Kriega, they both have this special harness that puts all the weight off my shoulders and the pack hugs my back nicely. I bring my lunch and a thermos with coffee as well 😀
I always wear my Alpinestars A-10 beneath my Klim Carlsbad Jacket which i removed all integrated Armour from. The Reason is to take of my Jacket if I get to Trails and to put on some Jersey without loosing my Protection. It saves so much Energy to ride in some cooler Gear instead some Gore Tex Jacket (Offroad) and the Hassle to get it on is worth it so much because of this.
Thanks for sharing my friend. I have been looking for a lightweight, waterproof jacket to use over my body armor instead of having to bring rain gear, but I haven’t thought about removing the armor in my Carlsbad before you mentioned it now! Interesting - sounds like a very good combination. Is it the newest version of the Carlsbad you have?
@@JohannesDalen Yep its the 2020 Carsbad and I am totally happy with it. So you have some lightweight Raingear with some small packing Size with you that you can easily stow somewhere if you go Offroad. I even sold the inner Protection of the Carlsbad on Ebay for about 100 Euro. I am dressed up like Base Layer -> Alpinestars A-10 -> Jersey -> Carlsbad Jacket, this worked the best for me up to now.
Good to hear you’re happy with it. I bought the previous version at 50% of the price, and was extremely happy with it, and I couldn’t image the new version being any better - but that was until I got to see it in the store. What a jacket!
Sounds like a sweet setup. For now I’m happy with the integrated armor in the Carlsbad 🙂
Falling... also very good at that :p
😂
Hi Johannes! I have the same EX-K harness, but haven't bought a jacket yet. Did you have to size up on the Klim Dakar jacket or did you go with your normal size? Thanks for the great videos!
Hello there! If I’m not mistaken, the Dakar is already a little extra roomy so you can fit armor underneath. I have XL in the Dakar jacket, and I have XL in my Marrakesh jacket too, so I actually went with the same size and it fits very well. Awesome jacket, you’ll love it 🙂 thanks for your question
dress for the crash. which is basically what you said. how you gear up should depend on what type of riding you're doing, your likelihood of crashing, and what kind of terrain you'll be crashing on. The problem with dual sport, is in the name, lol. street and trail riding, which have different risks. ride safe.
Spot on Steve - ride safe!
Great video Johannes. I really appreciate how you reply to all your comments. Well done. I'm from Melbourne Australia, and sometimes have to ride 1.5-4 hours to hit the dirt. I am in the market for some new "duel sport" gear. I traditionally put my enduro bikes on a trailer but have recently bought a CRF300L (which I love btw) so I need some gear that will suit both road and dirt. I totally agree with your conclusion, unfortunately there is no perfect gear for all situations!! I really like the idea of wearing external armor under the Klim Dakar, but I noticed it is not AA rated, in fact, I cannot see a rating at all! I was thinking of wearing my Fox Titan armor under this jacket, but now I am thinking of getting a jacket and pant that is AA rated. Do you recommend any AA rated over armor jacket and pants? Or do you think the Klim Dakar range is great for both street and offroad? Many thanks!
Also sorry, I forgot to mention, what are your thoughts on the Klim Marrakesh Jacket, them removing the armor so its effectively a shell jacked with 1000D protection?
Hello there, appreciate that you point that out, I try my best to get back to everyone!
Actually I test rode the 300L for the first time yesterday (I’m in Portugal), and it’s such a great bike, good choice.
Since I made this video I have sold the Dakar jacket. I really liked it, but because the weather in Norway is so unpredictable, I wanted a jacket that was waterproof as well, so I bought the Mosko Moto Basilisk. If you use external rain gear, pretty much any jacket will do, you just take out the armor and use it over your external armor. Again I really enjoyed my Dakar jacket, with all the vents and pockets. As you say there’s a compromise, so yes the Dakar could be safer on the road, but it would most likely be heavier.
Regarding the Marrakesh, I’ve owned that too. Excellent jacket, super comfortable with its stretch. For dual sport riding I think twigs and branches could snag on the weave pattern of the fabric, I’d rather use something like the Dakar. I recommend you take a look at Adventure Spec as well, they use the layering approach and have some really interesting jackets.
Hope this was helpful 😊
@@JohannesDalen Thank you, will do! Have you looked into the Alpinestars Halo jacket and pants? I like the idea of this, but still think it might get too hot here in Australia.
I've been pondering the same question. I have the typical armored jacket setup, but I sweat like a hostage when it's hot outside. I'm thinking I'll do an armor and jersey setup for really hot days on the back roads and when I'm doing training.
Armor, jersey and a jacket on top is my go-to now. Riding offroad in a jersey is beautiful, just strap the jacket to the rear of the bike and continue well ventilated 😊
@@JohannesDalen That's what I'm hoping. Once again your videos have me thinking.
Hello!
May I know your body type and what size protection you purchased?
I just saw this video in my feed. I'm glad I watched because it's a topic dear to my heart. I crash test motorcycle gear independently as a hobby and share my results with riders and manufacturers for free.
Anyway I used to be an adventure rider but now almost entirely off-road because I live in the mountains of Mongolia 8km to the nearest paved road. My riding is grassy slopes and forests with embedded rocks. There's a good chance when I fall that I'll land on pointy rocks. I considered the Forcefield EX-K but I decided hard-armour would be a better choice for pointy rocks. CE doesn't test with pointy impactors. I got the Leatt 5.5 jacket. I find it easy enough to put on an off. Not much more than a tight jacket. Ventilation is great - sometimes too much - so I tend to layer under or over. I ride all winter for short rides around my mountains.
One thing most people don't understand and I witnessed in my tests, is that armour is MUCH more abrasion resistant than textiles. You can crash multiple times on armour (if it's external) and it will probably never wear through. Your EK-K harness, where the armour is, has probably 20x times more abrasion resistant than your Klim jackets outer fabric. I often don't understand why they don't put armour on the outside of textile jackets because it would save the jacket from wearing through in pretty much any slide.
Hi there Martin, that is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I definitely agree with you, without having any proofs. The armoured jackets will help in a slide, makes perfect sense. I’m not sure how much softer armor like D30 will help, but the hard plastics will for sure.
@@JohannesDalen I did some tests to see actually how well soft armour would do for abrasion. It's better than most would think. I drop tested dyneema denim (used in single layer denim jeans) with D30 LP2 armour (it's 14mm thick) and also SAS-TEC level 2 (also 14mm thick). The Dyneema denim failed at 8m distance (D3o) from impact and 9m (SAS-TEC) from impact, then I kept going to see how long the armor would last. It was around 200 metres! This is on medium grade asphalt (good condition), drop weight was 6kg from 1 metre height using a hemispherical shaped sample holder to approximate a joint (knee, elbow, shoulder).
I essentially replicate the Cambridge method of impact abrasion but change 3 things: I add a realistic impact (1 meter instead of 5cm), change the shape of the sample from flat to an anatomical dome shape, also I do drop and stop on an actual road surface (usually 45km/h to 0km/h in 18 metres distance). If a sample hasn't failed, I repeat the drops until it does. I did about 100 drops testing everything from standard denim to race cowhide and everything in between. FYI, the worst performers were standard denim and any textiles, failing in 1 metres to 4 metres. The best performers were 2 layers of race grade cowhide (1.4mm) which achieved 200+ metres and more than 11 consecutive impacts. I'm sitting on a lot of data and I need to publish it to a wider audience. I'll get to it eventually.
Anyway, the good news is, if your textile fails on or close to impact, your armour will be protect you for any probable accident, assuming a decent thickness and you are sliding on your armour. Only a freak accident would breach the armour, like being dragged by a truck who can't hear your screams.
The reason armour is so good is simple physics: mass, thickness and tensile strength. It abrades slowly and predictably while holding together well enough. Compared to a typical 500d nylon used in adventure jackets, D30 LP2 is 13 times heavier (per m/2) and 35 times thicker. It's also the reason why cowhide does well (mass and thickness) which helps to spread surface pressure under impact and sliding.
Hey Johannes, is this approach still valid as of today? I am planning doing lots of TET and paved back roads i would say 50/50 between them. What is the best “do it all” in one set up for summer? Under Armour + outer shells or integrated klim mesh suit?
Hey Elion! The approach/philosophy of use is the same. I have two setups for different kinds of riding, but the gear itself had changed.
For summer riding on offroad I think external armor + shell is better. Better protection and you have the ability to take off the outer jacket and that will be much cooler. I will upload a video in a few days with a new pant I’ve bought that is amazing and will fit in an external armor approach well 😊
@@JohannesDalen i think it will be too annoying to put every piece of armor in the morning. Im thinking of purchasing a Klim Baja S4 (mesh suit for hot weather) and a goretex waterproof layer on top of it
I get that, and that’s the biggest drawback with external armor. You’ll quickly get used to it, at least that’s my experience. I feel naked with just the armor in the jacket, nothing to protect the chest etc.
@@JohannesDalen
I think this would be total protection:
Baja S4 + leatt knee guards + leatt chest protector AirFlex
What is your thoughts on hard vs soft armor on the torso?
And what pants are you using... you can just drop your pants when riding trails as you can your jacket 😉
I assume by hard you mean plastic like a roost deflector, and soft like the Forcefield I’m wearing in the video? I’ve never used hard armor on the torso, and my impression is that it’s mostly mx riders who do. For laid back adventure riding I think soft, pliable and lightweight armor is the way to go. The Forcefield is too bulky, hot and big, so I’m in the market for something less restrictive. What do you wear?
I’ve been using the Klim Dakar pants, and they have been awesome. Would love if they could be a tad morr stretchy, but then they would be less protective 🙂
@@JohannesDalenhi, i branched out from street riding to dual sporting (TET in sweden), so for my first season I used my street summer gear - macna mesh jackets and pants. Bought a pair of used Forma Predator boots though to protect my feet.
Now I am prepating for next season, bought the Leatt dual-axiss kneeguards... they dont fit into my street pants though... so I need new mesh pants... the ball is rolling now, you see ;)
In hard armor I have been looking at the leatt range 4.5 to 6.5 fullbody armor...
But I guess its too much protecting for me.. and to heavy, uncomfortable for all-day tides and to hot.
I am looking the hardest at the adventure spec stuff now...
With a forcefield armored underjacket...
Klim Marrakesh also looks nice... very stretchy... but the price is just too high for me 🙂
@@usbsol I have the Leatt knee protectors as well - easily my favorite out of all that I’ve tried, but requires the pant to have a lot of space for it underneath. I’ve heard the Adventure Spec pants have a much bigger knee space than the Klim Dakar, for around the same price.
When it comes to upper body protection I’m waiting for Adventure Spec to release their mesh jacket with protection pads in, it looks very agile and not too big. The Forcefield armor I have is as mentioned too much for me.
The Marrakesh stuff is awesome for laid back adventure riding with armor in it, but if you are looking for a jacket that goes over your upper body protection and jersey, pretty much any cheap jacket will do, as you’re already protected underneath and have separate rain gear!
@@JohannesDalen ohh, an AS mesh jacket sounds very compelling 🤗
@@usbsol If you’ve watched their videos or Greg Villalobos videos on YT, they are wearing it. Its looking like dark-grey and it was actually going to be released several months ago, but covid had other plans.
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Once again the word compromise appears again, intergrated armour is great but its biggest draw back is it does not always stay in situ, armour on the elbows and knees can move and not protect the area it was designed to protect.
External armour on the other hand has a greater chance of staying in place to cover parts like elbows and proper knee braces have very little chance of moving, but they are uncomfortable when it is hot.
There is sadly no perfect way, it just means you have to spend the money and try to find what suits you, trial and error.
Putting it elegantly once again sir - I don’t know why, but I do enjoy the topics were there isn’t a definite answer. I like to think, test, tinker, try and fail, and eventually come to a conclusion of some sort. Hopefully this video along with all the brilliant comments can be helpful to someone looking for guidelines. Have a great day 🙂
You should start lifting again though - it's great for your mental health. Fitness is important.
Just returned to it after a year of no lifting at all. Just came home from a pretty brutal workout with a friend. Thanks for pointing it out, working out in one way or another is something everyone should do. I’m not returning to competitive powerlifting though.