The exploited rugby rule that led to a doctor purposely hurting a player
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Here's a moral quandary for you: Doctors are supposed to do no harm, but if quickly cutting up a rugby player will save the team from getting caught in an elaborate cheating scheme that involved fake blood capsules... is that harm or help?
In the 2009 Rugby Union Bloodgate scandal during the Harlequins vs. Leinster Heineken Cup quarter final it was ...(drumroll)... harm, definitely harm. But when a team is determined to exploit the rulebook, I guess somebody's gonna get harmed sooner or later.
Enjoy this bloody tale of attempted cheating on the rugby pitch .
Trigger warning: blood
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Edited by: Will Buikema
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Fun fact because there are no helmets in rugby the players instictively protect their head and avoid head to head collision. In american football the percieved protection of the helmet lets athletes lead with their head. And thats why you have more head trauma in football than in rugby
The helmets also make head-to-head collisions and trauma worse.
@@weirdofromhalo thats not true 😂. I can imagine the comment above being true but wearing a helmet wont cause more damage than not wearing on
@@beastlydookie81 There's research on how helmets actually make head trauma worse.
You gotta tackle right in rugby. Otherwise, your head turns into putty. Also, there's the high tackle rules.
@@davidmichaelhurley4507 and the opposing player wearing a helmet essentially turns them into a battering ram.
Making matters even sweeter, I want to say Nick Evans still pushed his drop goal wide lol
Hey cranky! Love your channel man
I'm guessing a drop goal is a drop kick field goal. Basically a punt and a field goal combined.
Moral of the story: they ruined their careers for no reason
@@aok2075 yeah that's about right
@CYMotorsport Omg Nick!! Are you a harlequins supporter?
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We need a Weird Rules on the stupid former AFL rule where a playoff game could end in a tie and then they have to replay the game a week later and the whole playoffs would get pushed back a week and this would even go for Grand Finals too
they already did an AFL video on having 19 players on a the field at once and having your score wiped
@Crunch Bar No, they should go to Overtime like in any other sport
@Crunch Bar With Aussie Rules scoring, if it's still tied after 2 overtimes, something wild has happened
He saw St. Kilda blow it against Collingwood.
That happened for Rugby League I think until 1990. The 1977 NSWRL Grand Final ended with St. George vs Parramatta 9-9, then they played again a week later and St. George blew out Parramatta 22-0.
Edit: It was in the 80's when it changed.
OMG you did a rugby video!!!
I think another interesting case would be the 2011 french rugby world cup team who rebelled against their head coach, ran their own training sessions, and only just lost in the final!
Honestly you could make a series about French rugby
That famous french mutiny cause they could only have 1 cup of pudding for desert 😂😂
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I love secret base to death but Americans have no clue about rugby
Dean Richards, the Director of Rugby who was suspended for this incident, is now the Director of Rugby at Newcastle Falcons, where he basically just defends his players taking filthy cheapshots and eye gouging every week.
He never showed any remorse for his cheating in this incident either.
Legend
And then calls out Saracens for being dirty cheats (technically true, but hypocritical)
Dean Richard when a player was also dirty
Note: Leinster ended up winning the Heineken cup that year
Wow all dozen fans must have been really excited
@@LemurJackson 66,500 people went to watch the final that year alone
@@LemurJackson thousands of people showed up to the parade after they had won it
The moral of the story is never underestimate the Irish when there's something alcohol-related on the line
Love some rugby content on Secret Base! The 'Scrumgate' controversy of Wales vs France 2017 with supposed fake injuries and almost 20 mins of overtime would be cool for you guys to dissect.
Yes please watching this live was hilarious
This was the match you remembered that Wayne Barnes is a lawyer and some of the discussions between him and the French medical staff felt more like courtroom proceedings.
Why did you remind me of that it was so dull and so interesting at the same time, players had yellow cards and came back on it was mad
That was an insane end to a game.
I'm pretty sure they stopped the clock more than they should have too purely not to reach the 100 minute mark. Fiasco.
Rugby has far fewer concussions than football bc rugby players are trained to not tackle or run in with their head. Any tackle above the shoulders is an automatic yellow or red card.
They're also not carrying all that extra weight
the helmet does nothing to stop concussion. If anything it's worse for concussions because they think they're protected so they take less care with using safe techniques.
They're also not wearing pads, so hard tackles would probably hurt you worse than the other player.
@@JosephSarabia if you learn how to properly tackle, like all rugby players do, you can hit people as hard as you want and feel no lasting effects. If they were to just hurl their bodies around like NFL players they would definitely get injured, but you're taught to not do that on day 1 of training when you are like 6.
I always felt tackling people left me way more sore than being tackled.
Maybe I just like hugs tho
Rugby’s less dangerous than nfl even without helmets and stuff lol
Yep, because rugby players learn to not tackle with their faces.
Rugby is pretty tame
Possibly, though, Tom Brady is still playing at the highest level well into his 40s, while in Ireland, there's currently serious concern that our best out half is 36!!!
@@michaelodonnell824 The difference is that Tom Brady has 5 guys whose sole job is to make sure he doesn't get tackled where as a 9 or 10 has 3 or 4 guys trying to tackle him at any given time and no one to block them. Its frankly amazing that that difference only knocks like 5 or 6 years off a career.
Incredibly fitting that the team trying elite clownery is called "the Harlequins"
So actually, “not wearing a helmet throwing their head into each other” there is no head throwing in rugby it’s safer than American football
There kinda is though. You're putting your head down, trying to smash through with your shoulder but inevitably you'll hit your head. The big difference is usually, only one player in rugby is moving fast and the contact on range of angles hits come in on is much narrower. There's still a CTE problem in rugby.
It's nowhere near the same as american football, you're not diving to make a catch and getting blown up mid air.
From what I gather, rugby tackling is more of a dragging down than a big hit, which is actually probably harder but safer.
@@wadedevinney9681 There are still big hits, but they're much rarer. The three most common tackles are: fast moving carrier runs into stationary defender, who falls backwards to make tackle; fast moving carrier grabbed and pulled down by fast moving defender; slow carrier tackled by fast moving defender.
The last set is the one you might call a 'hit', usually when a player has just caught the ball and a defender has charged forward to make the hit.
The 'grabbed and pulled down' on the second set is the difference with american football. A wide receiver at full speed isn't going to be pulled down because every yard matters, the defender wants to hit him to stop him. In rugby, you'd rather secure the tackle and give up the yards.
To be fair, "safer than American football" is a pretty low bar. There are war zones safer than American football
@@carp3649 my doctor from when my brother played sailed CTE isn’t as big of a problem as it’s portrayed to be.
Do a rewinder of Jonny Wilkinson's kick to win the 2003 World Cup
Yesssss! I second, third and fourth this notion!
Or Joel Stransky's drop goal in the 1995 RWC for the Springboks.
Nah Steven Donald's 2011 world cup kick is a better story
All those are good...but we need a rewinder on The Miracle Of Brighton! Japan!!!
I feel like Beaver's story gets a rewind video, I mean here with have the like fourth choice fly half not even picked for the World Cup squad, who has been out of the National team for some time, is off fishing for whitebait when he gets a call from Graham Henry and makes that kick. Yeah the kick is a Rewind video because it fits the criteria of a rewind video. Brighton could get it's own video, that's more of it's own thing, and I'm sorry but as a very proud English Rugby fan, I would rather a video about Beaver over Johnny because it would be better.
BLOODGATE!
For Secret Base to do a rugby video is insane enough, but THIS TOPIC?!
Secret Base, this is the kind of content that wins. Believe me.
Love that you covered Bloodgate! This was in the news for WEEKS over here in the UK, and yes, everything about it is precisely as dumb as Clara says. Great storytelling.
I just want to say that Clara is really great at this stuff, even improved a lot on rewinders from one or two early ones hinting too early how it turns out, you guys are great.
Only downside I would say and just stick with the story and cut out the segment you try to play it off as a conversation. Really draws you out of the story and too distracting. Its really annoying
@Crunch Bar Yup. I enjoy the other videos and this kind of conversation like storytelling made me skip ahead in the video due to how cringe the guy is.
@Crunch Bar Doesn't change it feels too cringey with the fake conversation. This video was worse than usual so thats why I hope they can stick to the topic instead of the cringey false conversation and awkward laughing
@@tyes77 i think people are really not on your side here
@@tyes77 the conversation is literally half of the appeal of weird rules as a series.
The series has always been "heres a story about a weird rule and our subsequent reactions to said weird incident"
Used to be a similar thing for the nhl, a high-sticking would draw a 2 minute minor, but if it drew blood it would be a 5 minute major, so players would try to have some type of fake blood ready in case they were high sticked
I don't know if any player ever got caught with fake blood but for sure most guys who get high-sticked immediately claw at their face to make sure any potential wound is bleeding as much as possible.
Four minutes, it’s a double minor
The double-minor rule still exists, and it's hilarious to see players be disappointed when they realize they aren't bleeding
As others stated, blood is a 4 minute double-minor, not a major.
@@theshevanel it used to be a major
When Will talked about the "prop department" I was thinking "surely this guy is a fullback" before realising it was nearly the best joke ever but just wasn't meant to be.
ALMOST, dangit. 🤣🤣
I recommend listening to the Sky Sports' commentary at the time who were also sceptical of the convenience of the injury.
Stuart Barnes: "Who punched Tom Williams? Tom Williams?"
I see rugby and I click
Collapse: how the Buffalo bills failure to win 4 straight Super Bowls led to nearly two decades of mediocrity
Untitled: Johan Cruyff never winning a World Cup
Untitled: Ted Williams
Collapse: how the Montreal canadiens failed to reach sniffing distance of Lord Stanley for 28 years
Collapse: how the 2005 Chicago White Sox went from sweeping in the World Series to nearly a decade of bad baseball
Collapse: How a legendary AC Milan team that were regular UCL favorites broke apart
Rewinder: the miracle of Istanbul
The worst: 2012 game of the century
The new worst: super bowl 53
Untitled: Gilbert Perreault
Rewinder: Christian laettner’s shot against Kentucky
Untitled: Tony Gwynn
Rewinder: Japan vs South Africa in the 2015 rugby World Cup
Collapse: how the Edmonton oilers went from legendary dynasty to the worst team in the nhl
And also Rewinder Trent takes the corner quickly
100% Istanbul and Japan South Africa
Cruyff not winning sounds like a fun idea, but there isnt that much to desect there he lost the final in '74, and didn't participate in '78 (which is a story in itself). the world cup is just to rare(once every 4 years) to really have an untitled on with significant content, Zlatan never winning a Champions league would be much more entertaining i think, but he's still playing so there is still the (very) small chance it actually happens. Edit: a rewinder of the '88 european cup semi-final could be a good one if youre looking for dutch soccer content
Please please please make a rewinder about Japan VS South Africa from 2015
I constantly ask for this and never get it
@@RugbyRyan At least we have the first rugby video
@@RugbyRyan hard agree.
@@RugbyRyan been asking for Don Bradman for five years straight. Stick with it, who knows.
Please no. It still hurts.
To be fair, the reputation that Rugby is dangerous is not true. There are a lot of minor injuries (scrapes, bruises, sprains) but football has far more serious injuries because you have pads and helmets to hit other players with. Plus, people are pretty rarely running full speed at one another like a kickoff or something, it a lot more wrapping up generally. It is far safer in practise than it would seem
I know that it’s probably not that dangerous, but a kid in my area died from a brain injury a couple years ago playing. It’s probably not fair for me to judge the entire sport because of it. It very well could have happened in any contact sport, but I’ll still always have that in mind when I watch rugby.
100% agree, it is a very safe sport, the rules protect the players, the violence and injuries in American Football are way worse.
Dumb comment.
Rugby is very dangerous.
American Football is just extremely dangerous.
It's like comparing crashing a car at 100 kmph vs 160 kmph and saying it's not dangerous to crash at 100 kmph
I mean, the whole repeated head injury thing is a bit of a worry. But I suppose that’s not unique to rugby 15s
From their name Harlequins you can expect such a Carnivalesque joke like this
They actually won the premiership this year with a very Carnivalesque style
Finally a rugby video!!!!!!!!! I’ve been waiting years
I'm kinda jealous of who Will is as a person. It took me a long time to understand there's a lot of important things inside of my head. To be fair rugby is VERY EDUCATIONAL. Years of hockey never taught me the importance of what's in my noggin', but receiving a career-ending concussion during an inner-squad scrimmage 3 weeks into my rugby "career" did. It also taught me:
1. losing the ability to read for any period of time sucks
2. There's this important thing in your head called the vestibular system which is at least partially composed of fluid in your ear canals...and its possible for it to be displaced if you get whalloped hard enough.
3. Post Concussion Syndrome machine go brrrrrrrrt
4. I forget
Coming from this from a pro wrestling perspective is certainly interesting
Blading?
@@proffesionalidiot5994 yes
We need you to get color tonight, brother.
fr he could have bladed at least it’s believable
When my friends ask me what it's like to play rugby, I tell them you used to have to tape your ears over to avoid them getting ripped off.
Really? I only ever used it to prevent cauliflower ears
I'm a prop myself, and I wince when I see any ruck or scrum from before the 90s
I, too, remember that Rocket Power episode. Lol.
@@theshevanel ayyyyy
Not wearing a helmet is much better for the players, they tackle with proper form rather then using a helmet as a weapon
bad news buddy, rugby still has a huge concussion issue
He said better Matt. Rugby having a high concussions rate doesn't mean it wouldn't be worse with helmets.
@@titmanmd never said it was an end all be all solution Matthew, solid reading comprehension you’ve got.
@Crunch Bar They shouldnt but they do, and it's increased helmet to helmet, even if unintentionally. theres 4 of those calls per game now.
@Crunch Bar that’s a pretty naive comment dude, there’s helmet to helmet contact on virtually every play and it’s human nature to lower the head. Not to mention the targeting calls haven’t gone done at all. Trying to justify one sport or the other being better for concussions is a never ending convo. All I said was you’ll be far less likely to lead with your head and dive head on without a helmet on. Every contact sport has concussions so that isn’t really an argument either.
so i was at this game when the bloodgate happened and looking back on it, Tom Williams was no where near play when he reached to get the capsule out of his sock which was silly and then winking back at Nick Evans as he came off the field was also very silly thing to do
OMG a rugby video!!!! Pleaseeee so a video on Italy vs England , where Italy exploited a no ruck rule and England had no clue how to defend against it. When they ask how do they defend against it, the ref said "I'm not your coach, I'm the referee" or something along the lines of that
And then Eddie got mad and world rugby changed the law which actually backfired on England because it put Courtney Lawes offside for the charge down that created Underhill's try that would have won them the game against the All Blacks
Videos with Clara are a joy to watch. Such a great storyteller and clearly passionate about the subject matters she covers.
@@SimuLord found the simp
Love the rugby content!! Happy to see more mainstream media channels produce content on my favourite sport. I hope there will be more in the future 👍
I don't think you've covered this one before but a good one of these would be the never-ending second from women's fencing (epee) in the semi-finals of the 2012 olympics.
This is one of the funniest sports stories I've ever heard. They really gone cut that man lip🤦♂️
He said that the wink was because some of his team mates didn't know the plan, and were telling him he should keep playing.
Sir Donald Bradman please sb
Ed. Ooh rugby. Nice.
Rugby is less dangerous than football in terms of concussions. In rugby, you aren't trying to stop someone from gaining one extra yard. You're trying to get them down as quickly as possible to steal the ball. The best way to do it doesn't involve bringing your head into the tackle.
A classic scandal, pure nostalgia. & great "mighty mighty Quins" reference, killing it with the research as per
You should make "Original Rugby Ball Designs" a T-shirt. Or an NFT.
WTF?! Why would I say some evil bullshit like that?!!?
Just a T-shirt.
The putting things in your sock is a common practice. I play rugby and it’s the most common place amongst the teams I’ve played for to store you’re gum shield.
I think you’re being a bit harsh on the player who had to do it, it wasn’t his plan at all and he wasn’t really in a position to say no. If you’re a fairly minor player and your coach and your teammates want you to do something, you have to do it. It’s a lot like Nelson Piquet in the F1 crashgate scandal (which you should do a video on if you haven’t already)
You guys need to make more rugby videos
As a fan of Leinster biggest rivals Munster I'm jealous you have to do a video about the time one of Munster players donncha O'Callaghan got his shorts ripped off in the middle of a match and continueua-cam.com/video/Z-IAPdfyW0w/v-deo.html playingua-cam.com/video/xC4K47UfO5g/v-deo.html
Thinking that American football is safer than rugby is such an American mindset lmao
I played for 12 years. American football is more violent. Rugby is amazing! Give it a shot mate
Day 1 of asking for a Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen beef episode. There’s a lot to talk about when it comes to these two
Whenever I see Clara I know I’m watching the whole video, she’s dope
Rugby 🔥
5:43
“Are we not doing phrasing anymore?”
American Football is more dangerous that Rugby
Leinster went on to win their first Heineken Cup that year en route to winning three out of four and becoming arguably the greatest club rugby team in the world.
Nearly didn't happen because of Bloodgate.
pretty sure the Crusaders were a better team.
You guys made this really interesting story boring with bad takes.
Yeah would like a video just about the story and no conversation with the other guy. Seriously draws me out of the story with the conversation format they went with UGH
Did they win?
Leinster won the quarter final (and the Heineken Cup that year)
Rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen, while football (soccer if you like) is a gentlemen's game played by hooligans. Period.
...and Aussie football is a hooligans game played by hooligans
Rugby is safer that NFL.. the NFL has an issue whereby they wear helmets, so they hit harder and then feel the issue with it later. Rugby players in retirement are healthy and well educated and carry on. NFL players however have alot more issues relating to concussions. Hence why Will Smith's move had to be edited due the amount of facts they revealed. To say Rugby is violent is to not know that the NFL is so much so....
Just because NFL is more violent, doesn't mean that rugby *isn't* a violent sport.
I was gonna say "who carries a blood capsule with them to a rugby game??"
Then Clara dropped the bomb that they had done this FOUR TIMES BEFORE and I was like "damn, they must have a stockpile of them in someone's bag in case of emergency after the first time!"
Do a deep rewind of Game 5 of the 2017 World Series
Tom Williams, "Ooh a YT video from the US about Rugby........ No note this again!"
Ahh, yes... The good ol' Knife-Ball... an Oft Overlooked ball design....
Rugby is played by men with odd shaped balls.
Watching Americans talking about rugby as if it's one step away from gladiators makes my life
It's funny how impressed the children I coach in American football, and their parents, are when they find out I've played rugby. This may be the reason so many American football coaches play rugby.
Secret Base did a rugby video! And it's about my beloved Harlequins! Oh. It's about Bloodgate. Now I'm sad.
I think Tom Williams just snapped. He made it very clear that he couldn't possibly have been the mastermind and forced an investigation, leaving a ton of evidence that it was a team issue.
I remember this being a huge story in England at the time
Why is Will watching middle schoolers play sports??? Sus
YOOOOOO LEINSTER BAYBEEEEEEEEEE! COYBIB
this rules is not enforced anymore
Clara Morris is quietly one of the funniest SB presenters. Love her vids so much.
“Prop department” made me lose it
You guys should do a Rewind ep on Quade Cooper’s match winning kick vs. South Africa and Johnny Wilkinson’s World Cup final winner.
Tom probably got hit on the head too many times to remember why he was even playing the game in the first place.
Massive W from you guys. Thank you for covering this!!
This reminded me of an incident that happened in a football (soccer I guess) world cup qualifier match between Argentina and Bolivia in the 90s. Julio Cruz, Daniel Passarella and A ghost cut that changed sides on the face to get a match suspended. It was a national scandal and Great story you should definitely look it up.
3:21 Fair point. But one could argue this is true of every substitution, blood or none 😂
These two should just go on a date
Just a point, tackling in rugby does not lead with the head. It's a foul to lead with anything other than the arm or hand into a tackle. Strikes to head are a serious issue in the sport so much so that there are reds handed out comehwat controversially for relatively minor head contact. Contrast that to the NFL where linemen still regularly lead with the head.
It's the same reason why boxing got less safe due to boxing gloves - protected gloves means your hands don't hurt as much, so you just punch even harder. Protected head means you can use it as a weapon and ram it into people harder.
Good to see rugby getting the recognition it deserves
The dumb thing isn't this whole story, the dumb thing is that faking a blood injury was the only way to swap players for the game. It's so dumb that there's a limited amount of times you can swap out players in Rugby.
1. The player being subbed back on, had for Williams (Evans) had already left this very match earlier with a leg injury. 2. You already have a full bench of 8 players you can sub on. Unlike the 3-5 football (soccer) gives you. In some organization, there ARE rolling subs, but usually that is for regular season or friendlies. Not so common for league or post season play. And the most technically and physically demanding positions (the three front rowers) have mandated replacements (if the team has a full bench). Some more information about rugby. Early on, you never could sub a player. Then the bench was mainly used for injuries, then it became purely a thing to remove guys playing poorly, next came using the bench to remove backs and forwards 3-5 ratio after they've become too tired to play. Now finally we get to the modern bench style made popular by South Africa, 6 forwards and 2 backs. And the subs would be when the player just showed a sign of being tired. Not when they are knackered. So it's been an evolution of the game and how the bench is used.
Ayyy a rugby video
Weird rules is my favorite. I love the convoluted plans that come out of people who know the rule books this well.
Can you make a video about how in the CFL you can win by missing a field goal? See BC 18, TOR 17, 2019.
Poor stupid tom :(
1. Helmets In American football don’t prevent head injuries. 2. Context. Evans wasn’t a “star”, or at least that wasn’t why they wanted him on. Harlequins’ problem was that Evans was a goal kicker, and the other kicker who replaced him had gone off. Most of the actual point scoring is some by kickers, and not having someone who could kick would have necessitated scoring a try to overcome the deficit, which is much harder to do.
For other instances of Doctors being (possibly) naughty, see French use of the head injury assessment rule to get props back on in a Six Nations game a few years ago. Good luck trying to explain that to a lay audience, though.
Oh yay, Bloodgate. One of my favorite cheating scandals. Unimportant. I have never been able to get out of my head since the Max McGee video that Clara Morris and I went to the same shitty high school
I mean, sure, Tom Williams isn't very bright, but compared to how Dylan Hartley got himself sent off in a major final, he's bleedin' Einstein... ua-cam.com/video/2EV-aM3j0kg/v-deo.html
I was shaving my face and thought of this video. Not because I am bad at shaving or anything ofcourse...
Bullshit! The helmet has lead to more severe injuries than anything else in the history of American football. Rugby has way less concussions and paralyzed people per year than American Football. Get your facts straight!
Rugby players don't throw their heads into each other like American Football, they have specific tackling regulations to make sure people.are tackled safely
I feel like your initial comments about the violent nature of rugby are pretty exaggerated and it just comes across as being very uneducated about the sport. As many people in the comments have said, the risk of concussions and other head injuries aren't as high in other contact sports (eg. American Football) due to way in which players are trained to tackle.
"Before you talk to investigators, put this OTHER capsule in your mouth..." 😈
As a referee I'd say the Florida one could be ruled as taunting. Where the BYU could be a delay of game penalty. I'm going to have to bring this up with my crew now and see what they would call
Coleslaw episode starting with the 2006 chicago bears until now and reminder the double doink!!
Fun fact instead of runnning far away from the team after this Tom Williams ended up playing with Quinns until 2015 and winning a championship title in 2012
I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but the lack of helmets actually leads to fewer concussions
Laughing about rugby while wearing an American "Football" shirt is ridiculous
W vid
lol rugby is safer because the lack of equipments create space for rules and technique, instead of American handegg where people just toss each other around and there's no end of head injuries
I don't know what's more violent. Rugby or Aussie Rules football
OK, but what made Donovan McNabb finish his career Untitled?
As a rugby player, wait what was I saying? Oh wait I just banged my head into a wall I remember now. Don’t worry it’s not as dangerous as it seems