Why the Irish Are Not as Rich as They Say They Are
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- Опубліковано 24 жов 2024
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To be fair the Irish aren't saying it at all. They have been saying for years that the GDP figures are meaningless. The Irish now have the highest life expectancy in the EU and thats an absolutely amazing achevement. Much more impressive.
Exactly only politicians say that generally. Irelands cost of living more than cancels out any wealth except for the .01% of people and you can't get decent public services or even an ambulance when you need it. Ireland is a failed state where some people are rich but usually on paper only
Worth mentioning that in Ireland the primary measures used to judge the economy fundamentals are Domestic Demand and a stat called Modified GNI which excludes depreciation factors that inflate GDP.
Irish GNI is also inflated...
@@Tpmc9fq Modified GNI much less so.
I am an Indian staying in Ireland from 2008 working in software. My Irsih colleague who is a young man left Ireland to New zeland 3 months ago. He entered my company as a junior developer 2 years ago, and has a good salary probably around 2800 euros. But he can't think about buying a home in south of dublin because house prices are more than 500K there. Another mcdonalds manager I know who is a young Irish man left for Australia last month. The think is younger Irish generation is continuously migrating. But Irish prime minister said that those places will not be always greener. That means in Australia, Canada, New zeland also problems are going to start.
Ireland does have a shortage of housing, largely due to doing well in terms of jobs and due to a hangover from our property crash 10 years ago.. however, just so you know... €2800 per month is below average in Ireland, not to mind Dublin. That equates to 33600 per year - which I'm sure is good in other cities with less job competition - but it is certainly not considered a good salary in Dublin. It is below entry level for IT. Furthermore, south Dublin is the most sought-after and expensive property market in Ireland. There is no country that I am aware of where a below-average salary will buy you a house in the highest-end property district. It is an unrealistic expectation. With Australia as the given example, the average property price in Sydney is over $1 million. If you think you can afford that on less than a bus driver's salary, maybe Australia is a better choice for you.
That’s not surprising, the Irish have been leaving their own country for greener pastures for over 300 years.
2800 in IT?? what does he do?
That's very low in my country..
@@Tpmc9fq I said the amount after tax. A beginner in a company gets only that much after tax in Ireland. My case is pathetic. I started in 2015 in a company and still stays there. My salary after tax in 2015 was 1650. Now it became 2800. When it was 2300 two years ago and I asked for a hike, they didn't even like it. So in Ireland, if you want more money, you have to jump to a another company every two years. Since it is my nature to stay where I am, I just stay there. When I looked into mcdonalds, their manager said he gets 2400 euros after tax. Then think about the crew members there. They get less than 2000. That's the case in Ireland
@@vimalandrew2008 So you've had a 70% pay rise (after-tax) over 7 years.. and over 20% in the last 2 years? That's not too bad at all! It's well above inflation anyway.
Main issue is probably the low starting point.
In IT, generally it pays off to switch company after gaining a few years initial experience. That's the same in other countries also. Although, last year might have been a better time to do it with the current IT outlook.
Still, it's fully acceptable to push for more in your current job if you feel that you're underpaid for what you do.
Just FYI, 2800 after tax would mean a salary of something like 45000-50000, you could get a mortgage of approximately 180,000-200,000. If your pay increases keep beating inflation like that, you save for a deposit and get tax-back for being a first-time buyer, you could afford an apartment/house in the next few years. Maybe look outside of south Dublin though, north Dublin or the commuter towns are more affordable.
The Irish don't say they're rich random UA-camrs who look at statistics online say Ireland's rich because if it's a statistic on the internet it must be true
Exactly!!
This is a good point.
Like statistically West Virginia has DOUBLE the GDP per capita of Shanghai.... Even though Shanghai has 10x the total GDP...
West Virginia however is 10x bigger than Shanghai and has 200x less population...
So with these statistics you could fairly conclude that West Virginia are individually richer... However when you account for the relative PPP they're both similar at around $25k annually....
So the population of one of the richest chinese regions is RELATIVELY as wealthy as one of the poorest regions of the US. And in absolute terms the people of West Virgina are 2x as rich as the average household of Shanghai...
But if you look at Shanghai and you look at West virginia what looks richer???
That's the problem with the US... Income inequality that is effectively neo feudalism. There's no such thing as trickle down economics.
China is a net loser when it comes to them manufacturing something like an iPhone. This is a HUGE win for the US but because of corporate kleptocracy Apple doesn't pass on its windfall to its homeland... instead they spend 100$ BILLION a year on buying back stock which ONLY serves as a secondary dividend to their shareholders. They could spend that money on building STEM tuition centers in the poorest cities, providing rural regions with low cost Internet or even the largest scholarship/tuition fund for kids in care and even programming projects for vets.
Alphabet, Meta, ExxonMobil, Chevron, Halliburton, Coca-Cola ect easily they could put $500billion into the economy each year WITHOUT it being charity.
But no.... offshore accounts, stock buy backs, acquire small business and price out competitors all to create monopoly without any benefit to the US public.
When studying introduction to economics in college we covered GDP and its limitations as a measurement. Our lecturer acknowledged this and asked what else we should be measuring to get a full picture of the well-being of a nation/its economy and ended the lecture by asking if happiness should be measured. This was the first and last time this question was entertained in my economics degree, my theory being because economics as a school wants to brand itself as a hard science which would rather concern itself with data. In my experience most Irish people are aware of how GDP masks the true state of the economy. Overall the economy seems healthy, shown by an exceptionally low unemployment rate however the housing market is broken and getting worse. It is hard to point to GDP as a sign of a growing economy when simultaneously homelessness figures are growing
You see the homlessness problem I put down to incompetent governance. FF/FG think that relying on the private market is a good idea when it's been proven by now that it's the opposite; its multinationals investing into housing developments that they suddenly lose interest in during periods such as the current where costs are too high. It makes housing about the economy rather than about providing a living space for the people, which should be a human right. Furthermore, while being a tax haven does inflate our GDP, the government are still raking in extra billions from tax revenue; there's no reason that a government that runs such a large surplus can't provide housing for the people.. Especially in Ireland where our population is so small and there's no shortage of land close to/in urban areas.
In 2020 €3380 per month was the median salary in Ireland.
The average was about €4150.
Both are slightly higher now.
no it's not
@@trevorjoneill707 Ummm yes it is, it's on the CSO (Irish central statistics office) site €40,579 per annum median. And that was 2020, it's higher now.
It amazes me people like you blindly say someone is wrong when you can literally pick up your phone and look it up 😂
How do you even tie your shoelaces in the morning that's what I'd like to know.
@@RazorMouth the highest 2% is 98% of the economy so if you do the maths the average is higher than it really is.
@@trevorjoneill707 where did you pull that figure from? Your Ass?
Do you know median is? Median doesn't include the 2 extremes, the poorest and the extreme wealthy.
Average includes everyone so it's always a bit higher than median.
That's why I quoted 2 figures.
Now go ask Mammy how you tie shoelaces.
@@trevorjoneill707 Dude, the average is the average, there's no higher or lower than it really is, no matter how much the upper 2% has the share, then that's just the average. Are you even referring to salaries or wealth?
The median salary is what you would like to look at if you want a snip of how the current salaries stand.
For those going after Ireland’s corporation tax status, I would point out that we aren’t breaking any international or European laws here. It’s easy to pick on little Ireland rather than go after a massive and lucrative economy that is actually breaking international law like CCP controlled China, which literally has concentration camps producing cheap goods to facilitate more competitive exports
Why does the capital of Ireland keep growing?
Because it keeps Dublin and Dublin in size
Why does an old ass joke like yours get double boring each time - Because it gets sh!tter and sh!tter
Bruh
What does that even mean?
Nice try!
Lol
Absolutely right, iam swiss we have the highest income in the World but also the highest cost of living in World. End of month you have nothing left specifically with children
You forgot to mention GDP by expenditure . This measure has 4 components.
1 Government spending
2 Consumption
3 Investment
4 Difference between exports and imports.
The 1st 3 relate to spending.
Number 4 relates to economic performance.
I always assumed that this was the universal measure.
q Which method is universally employed?
I can never get over how the channel logo looks like ExpressVPN’s logo.
I've never heard any Irish people say/believe that their country is rich or that its one of the richest in Euope
I left Ireland about a decade ago and come back a couple times a year. If there’s any money at all, it’s all going to Dublin. My hometown hasn’t changed at all since we left.
Was driving through Limerick today and it still looks fairly run down. Looking at GDP per capita makes it seem like Ireland is the next Monaco but looking at other economic metrics, and just driving around Ireland, the place honestly looks closer to a country like Poland than any traditional Western European country.
All my cousins are planning on migrating abroad and my cousins who stay have to accept the fact that they may not be able to afford a home.
Still love Ireland though and it’ll always be my home but I do hate it when people think that we’re somehow this hyper-rich utopian state now.
To be fair to the Irish they are well aware of the issue and the government is honest about it and try to get a gauge on the issie
Well its even weirder for Luxembourg tbh
At 3:11 did I just saw Nedbank at Rivonia road, Santon South Africa.🇿🇦
OMG, lol after I saw that I also ran to the comment section.
The way GDP is calculated has changed a number of time to artificially increase it's size and impress a general populous 👍
In Scotland’s case Gross Domestic Product includes Haggis. ; ). Thus the gross.
I grew up with Gross National Product. All Macro Economic terms are estimates and slanted by politics and other factors. That’s why Microeconomics is much more accurate. Walmart knows how many toasters they have. They know about how many will sell at what price. When you add up this accuracy it is amazing. The Government gets many of its numbers by mailing out forms to be filled out by businesses that have little interest in their accuracy. It all has a 1930’s feel and don’t seem relevant. We only fill them out due to vailed threats we will be prosecuted if we blow them off.
Ireland has used Modified GNI for years now which excludes all multinationals. Plus our modified GNI per capita is €79,370 PPP (2021), higher than most in the EU (and the world).
I like to compare us to the Scandinavian countries. We all are of similar size and wealth and we are closing the gap in high standards in education, healthcare & welfare.
We are not the Bahamas nor claim to be wealthier than Norway, the UAE or Qatar.
GNI is also inflated. U have lower salaries than in half of the developed countries.
Germany,, Austria, Australia, Sweden, Denmark, US, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Canada, the Netherlands all have higher salaries with lower gdp per capita
@@Tpmc9fq That's easily proven not true
@@julm7744 GDP is not based off of income. It's based off of the value produced by an economy in 1 year. Modified GNI is the value produced in 1 year inside of Ireland (minus the multinationals).
Wages are higher than in S. Korea. A simple google search tells you that. But your crazy to assume the average person is earning $70,000. That's not what GDP is.
@@julm7744 Everything is much more expensive here because our wages are higher... Your proving your own point. I'm not here to defend Ireland. Our quality of life isn't better. I pointed out our deflated GDP figures put is on par with the Scandinavian countries. Then I pointed out what GDP was to you.
Your free to move home too. Nobody is stopping you.
@@julm7744 maybe dont move to a country and complain about it.
The average salary in Ireland is around 2.5-3k monthly. But the rent will take half of it.
Do you think it's viable for an international student in Dublin to work and study in order to pay for tuition and living fees?
Good work !!
Net indirect taxes are big part of GDP too: VAT, excise duties, etc. It is ok to simplify video, but total of net indirect taxes has to be included in calculation. Furthermore, part of GDP which goes towards salaries, include employers's social security contributions too.
It's night, and I can't Process
Consumption of fixed capital is very problematic, if a machine costs 10.000 dollars and its life expectancy is 10 years, it means its consumption cost per year is 1000 dollars. So rather than subtracting its lost value from GDP every year, they should just add its annual consumption cost (1000 dollars) to the GDP of that year. Because GDP is to measure wealth/production GENERATED in a year, not a net production potential of a country.
Please do the same for Luxembourg, it says its rich but one can barely see this wealth
It's rich, but most of its citizens live outside the country because they can't afford the living costs inside.
@@shauncameron8390 I think what you are saying is its expensive instead of rich. Rich means its expensive but its people can afford it. Its not Norway rich its paper rich. Its hiding behind the flawed definition of GDP by playing around the money passing through its system and saying ooh look if we shared it amongst our small population everyone will have a lot of money compared to if other countries did the same, totally ignoring the fact that most of that money is not the country's to keep
my macro econ professor always reminded us not to use only GDP as a single point of analysis.
Professor Michael Beckley has written about how large population countries have GDP that is undermined by their large populations. For example, much of the GDP is spent keeping the people alive and in line.
Like China?
@@shauncameron8390 Among others
Alive and In Line?????? that is a oxymoron....
if working in some big tech companies, eg google , u can earn a lot but still r facing the high living of standard especially rent
That would be worse if you viewed it using the UK.... Trussonomics removed £30 billions off the UK GDP in a week, so 50% of the UK's GDP is the trade via the City of London and the rest is property.... what is the UK's real GDP?
Nice video. Can you talk about informal economies and how it relates to poverty. I believe poverty is miscalculated in developing countries because it doesn’t take into account high informal employment rates and untaxed income that is prominent in developing countries especially in Africa.
Very good video, except PLEASE lose the tearing video effect. It gives me a headache. Big fan but that is rough on the eyes.
a lot missing form your vid, mate
awesome video man!
What about tge GDP in other countries? France, Great Britain, USA?
The Irish are not the ones claiming they're super rich, in a small Country like ours, everyone knows what's going on, the realities ... however it is still in a better place than many other Nations, its location between the US and Europe, only full English speaking country left in EU, and a long history of good work relationships wuth Companies helps. We're not bothering anyone, so kindly don't bother us
Have any of ye heard of the GNI index? This is basically Ireland’s GDP minus all the multinational activity here. So this places ireland as the 5th richest country which is still very good.
Came here to see all the moaners in the comments. Ireland absolutely has issues, as does any nation, but to listen to some of my fellow countrymen in the comments, you would swear people were having to emigrate so they wouldn’t starve.
Yes Jim they knock everything here it so sad
😮😮😮....the same un uruguay
Net domestic product lol he spittin
Ireland has never said we're rich. We're just richer than when we were ruled over by utter animals.
Gdp just tell you how wealthy the wealthy are... not the common man
If you want what the average Joe feels, I think "median income adjusted for purchasing power" is the best indicator.
Average is very scary, as it is heavily influenced by a few rich folks.
Very true. I stand in a room with a multimillionaire while penniless with my 4 penniless friends and the average wealth of the room is still several million.
It paints a wildly inaccurate picture.
So we should use Net National Product
Hope Ireland has enough to pay for all they're new arrivals
Is it only me or there are tons of glitches in the embedded videos? Example at 9:39 but it's literally throughout the video. If everyone sees it it means something is wrong with your editing software, I guess.
It's made on purpose. Those are called visual effects now😂
@@artemk8639 have you actually seen the example I gave the timestamp to?
@@dzi333 I noticed it throughout, and assumed it was intentional. Schizophrenia-inducing style to appear, I dunno, one of da yoof. Rather like the whole content of this vid, flung out without any real attempt to explain substantively. I suspect this guy doesn't in fact know all that much about economics.
I always think it best to combine GDP with GNI per capita and the human development index as well. Use different measurements not just one. India has bigger GDP than New Zealand, doesn't mean its more developed, no offense to India.
As any indicator, you should never analyze it independently, because economists love to simplify indicators to understand correlations... Netherland gdpper capita is higher than Germany but is GINI is the closest to Afghanistan
GINI index of Netherlands is 28.2 and GINI index of Germany is 30.5. Lower the Gini index is higher is equality. So Dutch are better in that regard.
Like it. Exactly what i think
It makes sense
GDP should only state net profit after expenses.
All this other stuff skews the numbers in ways that don't really matter.
For example if I were to give you a loan, I don't want to know your gross income like other banks do, I want to know your net income after you have pais your bills.
In this scenario I would ask for a copy of your most recent bills as well as bank statements for the last 2-3 months so I can accurately gauge how much money you have to spare at the end of any given month.
Great video... Now waiting to know which country is actually the richest in world 🗺... In terms of NDP or GNP
Yes i’ve heard about This
There are a lot of irish rich, drug dealers, landlords, solicitors specialized in divorces, car dealers, pub owners, hotel owners ...
Only thing I couldn't get is how they're able to include the depreciation of capital. What if you buy that shoe making machine and it happens to last 12 years? Were you added $1K every year even though that's $2K more than it cost? You said that was the issue with NDP so it just came across to me as very confusing and contradictory. If someone could explain it differently, I'd appreciate that.
is there a net national product?
no dispute here, lol, try to explain that to my parents'
wtf it that thumbnail🤣🤣
9:29 Song? Beat?
lol as an American I must say that my salary is no where near the GDP per capita of the USA.
But there are 10's of millions of Americans whose salaries are at or above it.
Please can you guys fix the artifacts?
I think it's intentional. A stylistic thing, rather like the rat-a-tat-tat style of delivery. And equally irritating.
How about money making all your way makes out capital monry.
Looking fine, Josh
i suspected as much. their culture is one of the most valuable in the world but it gets exploited to hell and back by so many outside sources. not really an issue.. just have to figure out who else has their fingers in this pie..
Low bitrate/corruption editing, please stop it, really annoying, kthnx
G
D
Peenice
Can you please change the “visual artifact” special effect on the video. I feel it became a part of the identity of the channel but it adds nothing but headaches and sore eyes and really distracts from what’s being presented.
Duhhhh really
The Irish are not claiming to be rich. Others are.
The limitation of GDP is also that it doesn't take into account that a big chunk of GDP can be in hands of one person or company. Example: oil rich developing countries such as Equatorial Guinea. Most of GDP comes from oil, but it is entirelly in hands of small elite, while most of country is still as poor as in the poorest countries of the world regarding GDP (Burundi, Somalia, Central African republic...)
👍👍👍
How's brexit doing for ya
Revisit that question in 2025 and even the well massage UK's GDP will not look good then...
always the english putting the irish down
No lie was told in this video.
@@ikerdelpalacio5160 how about the headline?
"The Irish aren't as rich as we say we are"
Well for a start we don't even use GDP, we use GNI (gross national income) which used to be called GNP (gross national product).
And also GNI* (modified GNI)
So no we don't say we're rich, it's actually other countries and social media that say that using GDP which we don't even use.
To be honest though, there was so much left out in the video which was supposed to be about Ireland, going by the headline.
Firstly its the "median" salary that was €3380 per month in 2020.... The average was about €4150.
Also no mention of the value of our trade. Per head of population were the biggest exporters in Europe. 5 times more than the UK and double that of Sweden.
We're 3rd in the world only behind Hong Kong and Singapore.
So yeah quite a bit left out, I'd do a much better video myself.
@@RazorMouth Hong Konger here, some of the "trade" in HK is China trade where China exports/import via Hong Kong to evade certain sanctions or tax (HK has zero tax for trade). Thus unless you know some Chinese who can give you that business deal and make a fat profit. Most of these "trade deals" don't benefit the general public at all - it's more of a parasitic relationship of China using HK's status as a free port
PS: Trade is also used to launder money or sneak money across the border. Eg, you (a Chinese) buy $1M worth of computer equipment from HK, I ship you a container of empty boxes with 10 boxes that actually had computer equipment (to get pass customs). After you receive the shipment of empty boxes you apply to pay for the goods of $1M to Chinese authorities and pay me $1M. I then give you back $0.85M to your overseas account and you have successfully moved money to your overseas bank account 🤑
I think Ireland had a similar issue, Apple "import" their Apple products from China to the EU via the ports of Amsterdam but most of the deals are booked in Apple Ireland office/accounts. Thus 97% of the Apple trades don't even land in the ports of Dublin at all, but it still contributes to trade deals in Ireland (where the profit tax is lowest in the EU)
@@hkchan1339 no that couldn't be right, computer hardware, which is what phones and other apple products come under aren't even in our top 10 exports.
We export mainly pharma, biologics, chemicals and integrated circuits. Those 4 are way ahead of anything else.
@@hkchan1339 Irish 'profit' tax isn't the lowest in the EU - there are several countries with lower corporation tax. Also, regarding Apple, it is the software and services profits that are moved through Ireland - because that's where Apple have had their software and services EU headquarters for decades. 7000 people work at the location (there since 1980) providing those software and services.
Really this is what you choose to talk about in relation to Ireland?
The internal Irish economy is on the verge of a major collapse, one that won't be reflected in our overview figures.
The story of the Irish and the misleading nature of the economic indicators is only beginning, it's going to get a lot messier than it already is
The internal Irish economy is on the verge of a major collapse???? Where are you getting this information.... the foreign British rhetoric propoganda press or PBP's made up nonsense????
Dislike for the video editing
Lastly superpowers invent measures to favour themselves, now that china’s gdp is going to surpass that of the west, the west will invent a new measure to make sure it still lies to itself that it’s better off than china😂
Over GDP, that is. But in terms of GDP per capita, China is just barely $10K.
Meanwhile thousands of people continue to emigrate into Ireland. A FEW facts : Irelands not a tax haven. We've had the same tax system for decades. If you can't compete lower your tax rates. But no point now as we've signed up to the new global 15% rate.
Secondly, rich countries weren't always rich they became rich over time. This is what happened to Ireland. Was poor. Now rich.
We have our problems but it's still a great place to live
Did this video slap or nah?