When I and most of my colleagues were in our 20s and 30s, several of them were private pilots (we were airline A&P mechanics). Since then every one either bought a plane or stopped flying. Renters rarely stick with it, as life changes and/or challenges them. I didn’t even begin taking lessons until I knew I could buy a plane. And I’m not willing to strain a friendship with the controversies that can develop between partners. If something needs repair, I know it’s my responsibility. When I want to fly, she’s sitting in the hangar waiting for me. Thank you for another fun discussion.
I bought a 1946 Aeronca Champ a few months ago. $35,000 for the plane with a brand new C-85 engine and firewall foreword. It needed some TLC so ive had to put some money into it. Still need to do some fabric and paint touch up but so far these are my costs: My cost for the plane roughly so far are: Champ - $35K Insurance - $1,300 - No tailwheel time Hangar - $350/mo New tires (8.50s) - $1,750 New Oleo Struts - $2,200 Miscellaneous Repairs and AP labor - about $1,500 New wood floor boards - $150 Last two annuals of the plane were $5-700
Thanks for the datapoint. Sounds like a great airplane! And good Info for folks to be aware of deferred maintenance prior to purchase. Did you do a pre-buy and were aware of the needed TLC prior to purchase?
@@prodigalpilot I didn't do an official pre-buy, I have and A&P friend that's very knowledgeable in antique fabric planes give it a look over. I knew what I was getting into and also looked at it as a learning project to gain experience on working on older airplanes.
@@RamblingsofJT sounds like a pre-buy to me! I didn’t do an official one on Bess either, but purchased locally and have experience with the mechanic who was taking care of her, and know is thorough
Those numbers match mine as I bought a 1947 Champ w/ a low time C-85. I calculate about 1k a month including fuel, hangar, reserve for engine and mechanical, insurance, annual, BFR, etc. I've replaced/upgraded: 8.50 tundra tires, new seats, windows, fuel tank, Marvel carb with mixture control and Hanlon-Wilson exhaust for real heat in the winter. With a climb prop and no electrical system I can do almost everything my Cub friends can. If you are out west OR/WA lets fly.
I flew this plane years ago after a restoration to Gardner, It was one of my flight school airplanes. Likely have 150 hrs in it. I have an 85 HP Champ now and based at Gardner.
New subscriber to your channel. The first airplane i ever owned was a 7ac champ. Converted it to an 85 horse motor flew it for 5 years and then sold it. Worst decision I ever made. Now a friend is letting me fly his 7AC champ. I pay him 30 bucks an hour and I can fly it whenever I want. Best deal in aviation. Looking forward to more of your videos.
I have over 300-hours in a 47' Champ. Most of those hours were attained while owning a Cessna 150. i just preferred flying the Champ and in the late 80's and early 90's I could rent one for $15.00 an hour wet. I did put quite a few working hours into that Champ as I helped recover the fuselage and wings and reassembly. Great Planes and would love to own one today. I flew a lot of post-war light aircraft in the 80's and 90's and the Champ stood above them all. Docile handling. Good forward view on the ground. Light aerobatics. Short take off and landing(STOL). Enough power for altitude and mountain flying(85-Hp would be ideal). Thanks for the post. Brings back a lot of great memories.
Just subscribed. First ride was in a Champ in 1956. Bought a Stinson with 150 Franklin in 99 and sold it 21 year later. Sure miss that bird. I have always wanted a Champ and found the one that my father flew and I got my first ride in. Too bad it wasn't for sale. Too old now to fly, but I enjoyed your video so much. Keep up the great content. Your analysis was right on. Greetings from NE MN.
Excellent video - we have a '47 L-16A/Champ and love every minute in it. It isn't free to fly but at 4.5 GPH its allowed me to fly all I want. Our last plane was a 180 HP PA-18 and the Champ when kept light with a climb prop is more akin to a PA-11 or PA-18-95 not to mention tons of room, a fraction of the cost and easier for friends to climb into. I'm amazed at how much fun it is to slip and rarely miss the Super Cub except on the shortest strips on higher DA days.
This was good info. I’m looking to get in the market for a Luscombe next year. I’ve always loved that plane, and an all metal example should be able to live outside at the airport 5 minutes from the house. You’re bang on about renting. I had a low goal of 4-6 hours a month, and because of the challenges of scheduling rentals and weather cancellations I’ve barely managed an hour or two a month. I know if I have a plane I love five minutes away she’s going to fly just about any time I have a couple hours of free time and the weather is nice.
Did my solo xcountry in a champ back in 1973. Such an easy airplane to fly especially with the no bounce gear. It’s very hard to find a taildragger that you can rent solo these days. There is one you can rent in San Diego SDM that I would rent when we had a trip to SDM and had a layover.
From my own private flying and calculations, you're bang-on with the reality of flying. I flew at most 25 hours per year so rental it was. Now I spend my time in DCS. 😢😊
Excellent content Sir - enjoying your videos. As someone also in the KC area, I wondered where you find a CFI to do Light Sport instruction - and where is that Sky Catcher you mentioned? Keep the vids coming!
The only LSA training I am aware of in the area is Empyrean Aero at KOJC. One day I hope to have a small outfit with champ, taylorcraft, etc to do some low(er) cost training
I do love that airplane of yours. I had thought of trying to find one like that or in that same thought process as you meaning the antique airplane. I’ve also thought that maybe I could cut my cost if I got an experimental with folding wings and got a trailer that it just lived in that I could bring it out and use it when I want to fly. Which way do you think would be the most cost-effective and would be the best to get into flying on the most budget? In which license do you think would be the best?
Like your videos very much! I assume you're taking off at full power; however, when you say you're accelerating at various points just after takeoff, are you doing it by changing the attitude (elevator), or adding power?
Airspeed is all about pitch attitude. I’m full power for the entire takeoff and climb, changing pitch angle between best angle of climb (50mph) to clear obstacles and best rate of climb (60 mph)
Glad you mentioned how many hours you would get a year before/after owning. I’m a similar-time pilot who’s been renting and really not enjoying that aspect. You mentioned in another video that you are apart of a club to have access to something that’s better equipped for longer trips, did you find that club through your FBO?
No, that’s just the stitching and removal of the pole mount for the 360 camera in software, been trying to figure out how to get the stitching a bit better
Plane is great, and you did not even have to fly it from the back seat. But it will not meet my goal for a fast X country plane. These planes are what I called "elevators" go up and down only, but not so much sideways. You can barely keep up with a car on a good highway. To me a proper X country plane is capable of at least 140 kts @ 75% with range close to 1000 miles, 2 or 4 seats. I know some kits you can do it for under $50 for 2 seats and maybe $100 for 4 seats. For $100 gs or less 4 seats, I am not expecting a new engine (mid time?) or a panel that rival the airline in the airport. On a lousy day, I will have to go IFR, eh I mean "I follow roads" I did not say anything about filing IFR ! Sonex and BD 4 are some of the planes I can see meet my needs. If I build it, I can sign off the annual. Of course if I have more money, I can always get an RV10 or a Panthera.
Mission is the most critical aspect of choosing a plane. I’m too busy and work full time to travel often, I just need to get in the air. My only caution on building. Folks that build because they want an airplane often don’t finish. Build because you want the joy of building. If building is a hurdle to the end point of owning an airplane, save yourself money and grief and just buy the airplane. Thanks for the comment!
You want to fly but money is tight. Situation Normal. Here's anidea that I did. For the price of less than a classic tail dragger buy a two seater trainer, C.152 or Piper PA38 can work well. Then you lease the aircraft to a local flying school. It generates income while your at the office. You can still fly it, just a phone call to the flying school so you don't clash with a scholars lesson. I got my PPL for free this way and stuill ended up with a valuable asset.
Leaseback can work great for some situations, provided you can stomach the increased wear and tear. Unfortunately those trainers you mentioned have gotten quite expensive past few years!
@@prodigalpilot True. My PA38 cost $15,500 in 1991. I am pleased to say she is still flying today with a Flying School in Germany. Yes I sold it at a profit.
I imagine your family enjoys flying with you. If they do, I believe you can write off some of the costs that occasionally eat into family expenses. I don't think you can put a value on being able to take your wife out for an hour of beautiful sunset flight followed by a wine and cheese picnic back at the airstrip before going home. The value of having one on one time with each of them over the years is priceless too. ❤ This may unselfishly lead to the future purchase of a family aircraft for more family adventures.👍 Who knows it could lead to careers in aviation for the kids?😍 There’s nothing like exposing young minds to the physical and emotional joy of flying while showing them just how much bigger the world is than the one they know. Instead of Dad can I borrow the car for a date it could be can I have the keys to Bess? I have a date‼️🍀
Any content involving U/L and Experimental is much appreciated.
When I and most of my colleagues were in our 20s and 30s, several of them were private pilots (we were airline A&P mechanics). Since then every one either bought a plane or stopped flying. Renters rarely stick with it, as life changes and/or challenges them. I didn’t even begin taking lessons until I knew I could buy a plane. And I’m not willing to strain a friendship with the controversies that can develop between partners. If something needs repair, I know it’s my responsibility. When I want to fly, she’s sitting in the hangar waiting for me.
Thank you for another fun discussion.
I bought a 1946 Aeronca Champ a few months ago. $35,000 for the plane with a brand new C-85 engine and firewall foreword. It needed some TLC so ive had to put some money into it. Still need to do some fabric and paint touch up but so far these are my costs:
My cost for the plane roughly so far are:
Champ - $35K
Insurance - $1,300 - No tailwheel time
Hangar - $350/mo
New tires (8.50s) - $1,750
New Oleo Struts - $2,200
Miscellaneous Repairs and AP labor - about $1,500
New wood floor boards - $150
Last two annuals of the plane were $5-700
Thanks for the datapoint. Sounds like a great airplane! And good Info for folks to be aware of deferred maintenance prior to purchase. Did you do a pre-buy and were aware of the needed TLC prior to purchase?
@@prodigalpilot I didn't do an official pre-buy, I have and A&P friend that's very knowledgeable in antique fabric planes give it a look over. I knew what I was getting into and also looked at it as a learning project to gain experience on working on older airplanes.
@@RamblingsofJT sounds like a pre-buy to me! I didn’t do an official one on Bess either, but purchased locally and have experience with the mechanic who was taking care of her, and know is thorough
Those numbers match mine as I bought a 1947 Champ w/ a low time C-85. I calculate about 1k a month including fuel, hangar, reserve for engine and mechanical, insurance, annual, BFR, etc. I've replaced/upgraded: 8.50 tundra tires, new seats, windows, fuel tank, Marvel carb with mixture control and Hanlon-Wilson exhaust for real heat in the winter. With a climb prop and no electrical system I can do almost everything my Cub friends can. If you are out west OR/WA lets fly.
I flew this plane years ago after a restoration to Gardner, It was one of my flight school airplanes. Likely have 150 hrs in it. I have an 85 HP Champ now and based at Gardner.
That’s it, Mikki got to fly her again last week!
It’s fantastic to see some more champ content! I’m thinking about doing a rebuild series on my 7EC champ
Now just one day later you're creeping up to 300 subscribers. Good work!!!
New subscriber to your channel. The first airplane i ever owned was a 7ac champ. Converted it to an 85 horse motor flew it for 5 years and then sold it. Worst decision I ever made. Now a friend is letting me fly his 7AC champ. I pay him 30 bucks an hour and I can fly it whenever I want. Best deal in aviation. Looking forward to more of your videos.
I have over 300-hours in a 47' Champ. Most of those hours were attained while owning a Cessna 150. i just preferred flying the Champ and in the late 80's and early 90's I could rent one for $15.00 an hour wet. I did put quite a few working hours into that Champ as I helped recover the fuselage and wings and reassembly. Great Planes and would love to own one today. I flew a lot of post-war light aircraft in the 80's and 90's and the Champ stood above them all. Docile handling. Good forward view on the ground. Light aerobatics. Short take off and landing(STOL). Enough power for altitude and mountain flying(85-Hp would be ideal). Thanks for the post. Brings back a lot of great memories.
Thanks for commenting!
Just subscribed. First ride was in a Champ in 1956. Bought a Stinson with 150 Franklin in 99 and sold it 21 year later. Sure miss that bird. I have always wanted a Champ and found the one that my father flew and I got my first ride in. Too bad it wasn't for sale. Too old now to fly, but I enjoyed your video so much. Keep up the great content. Your analysis was right on. Greetings from NE MN.
Subscriber 255 here. Keep it up, love the content.
I got my ppl in 1964 in a Champ 7EC 90hp on floats. A great plane - i do miss flying. Haven't floan for 5 years.
Keep up the good videos.
Excellent video - we have a '47 L-16A/Champ and love every minute in it. It isn't free to fly but at 4.5 GPH its allowed me to fly all I want. Our last plane was a 180 HP PA-18 and the Champ when kept light with a climb prop is more akin to a PA-11 or PA-18-95 not to mention tons of room, a fraction of the cost and easier for friends to climb into. I'm amazed at how much fun it is to slip and rarely miss the Super Cub except on the shortest strips on higher DA days.
This was good info. I’m looking to get in the market for a Luscombe next year. I’ve always loved that plane, and an all metal example should be able to live outside at the airport 5 minutes from the house.
You’re bang on about renting. I had a low goal of 4-6 hours a month, and because of the challenges of scheduling rentals and weather cancellations I’ve barely managed an hour or two a month. I know if I have a plane I love five minutes away she’s going to fly just about any time I have a couple hours of free time and the weather is nice.
Really enjoy your content. Best of luck on your channel growth.
Great video. As you were saying hard to put a price on something of having availability when you want it
Great video breaking down the costs simply.
That was really good stuff. Thank you.
Really enjoyed the content and helped me in my budget as im going through the airplane buying process! Keep up the great content!
What are you shopping for?
@prodigalpilot have a 46' Taylorcraft down the road from me getting ready to go through a prebuy. Hope all checks out good!
@@MetalMakerShop tcrates are awesome.
Did my solo xcountry in a champ back in 1973. Such an easy airplane to fly especially with the no bounce gear. It’s very hard to find a taildragger that you can rent solo these days. There is one you can rent in San Diego SDM that I would rent when we had a trip to SDM and had a layover.
Keep going brother 👍 I really appreciate what you're doing on this channel. Thanks, Good health and God bless
From my own private flying and calculations, you're bang-on with the reality of flying. I flew at most 25 hours per year so rental it was. Now I spend my time in DCS. 😢😊
Great helpful information and beautiful scenery 👍
Looking to buy here in 6 months. Loved this video for a better insight! Amazing Plane brother!
Super good video. Thanks new sub!
Good work Pilot!
Excellent insight. Thanks for sharing
Excellent content Sir - enjoying your videos. As someone also in the KC area, I wondered where you find a CFI to do Light Sport instruction - and where is that Sky Catcher you mentioned? Keep the vids coming!
The only LSA training I am aware of in the area is Empyrean Aero at KOJC. One day I hope to have a small outfit with champ, taylorcraft, etc to do some low(er) cost training
Thank you - I’ll look them up!
I do love that airplane of yours. I had thought of trying to find one like that or in that same thought process as you meaning the antique airplane. I’ve also thought that maybe I could cut my cost if I got an experimental with folding wings and got a trailer that it just lived in that I could bring it out and use it when I want to fly.
Which way do you think would be the most cost-effective and would be the best to get into flying on the most budget? In which license do you think would be the best?
I’m currently taking my training in a Champ for a light sport ticket.
@@davidturner6509 great plane to learn in!
Like your videos very much! I assume you're taking off at full power; however, when you say you're accelerating at various points just after takeoff, are you doing it by changing the attitude (elevator), or adding power?
Airspeed is all about pitch attitude. I’m full power for the entire takeoff and climb, changing pitch angle between best angle of climb (50mph) to clear obstacles and best rate of climb (60 mph)
Excellent video sir!!!!!!
You were very lucky at 20k.
Bess is so beautiful and adorable for her age!!!
Thanks!
Nice ❤
Glad you mentioned how many hours you would get a year before/after owning. I’m a similar-time pilot who’s been renting and really not enjoying that aspect. You mentioned in another video that you are apart of a club to have access to something that’s better equipped for longer trips, did you find that club through your FBO?
The club is loosely related to my day-job
@1.50 is that a broken strut?
No, that’s just the stitching and removal of the pole mount for the 360 camera in software, been trying to figure out how to get the stitching a bit better
Do you fly during the winter?
@@marknuetzmann4935 yes, it’s cold in that cockpit though!
Lucky man!
Here before 500 subs
Ok. Sold.
Plane is great, and you did not even have to fly it from the back seat. But it will not meet my goal for a fast X country plane. These planes are what I called "elevators" go up and down only, but not so much sideways. You can barely keep up with a car on a good highway. To me a proper X country plane is capable of at least 140 kts @ 75% with range close to 1000 miles, 2 or 4 seats. I know some kits you can do it for under $50 for 2 seats and maybe $100 for 4 seats. For $100 gs or less 4 seats, I am not expecting a new engine (mid time?) or a panel that rival the airline in the airport. On a lousy day, I will have to go IFR, eh I mean "I follow roads" I did not say anything about filing IFR ! Sonex and BD 4 are some of the planes I can see meet my needs. If I build it, I can sign off the annual. Of course if I have more money, I can always get an RV10 or a Panthera.
Mission is the most critical aspect of choosing a plane. I’m too busy and work full time to travel often, I just need to get in the air.
My only caution on building. Folks that build because they want an airplane often don’t finish. Build because you want the joy of building. If building is a hurdle to the end point of owning an airplane, save yourself money and grief and just buy the airplane. Thanks for the comment!
You want to fly but money is tight. Situation Normal.
Here's anidea that I did. For the price of less than a classic tail dragger buy a two seater trainer, C.152 or Piper PA38 can work well. Then you lease the aircraft to a local flying school. It generates income while your at the office. You can still fly it, just a phone call to the flying school so you don't clash with a scholars lesson. I got my PPL for free this way and stuill ended up with a valuable asset.
Leaseback can work great for some situations, provided you can stomach the increased wear and tear. Unfortunately those trainers you mentioned have gotten quite expensive past few years!
@@prodigalpilot True. My PA38 cost $15,500 in 1991. I am pleased to say she is still flying today with a Flying School in Germany. Yes I sold it at a profit.
I imagine your family enjoys flying with you. If they do, I believe you can write off some of the costs that occasionally eat into family expenses. I don't think you can put a value on being able to take your wife out for an hour of beautiful sunset flight followed by a wine and cheese picnic back at the airstrip before going home. The value of having one on one time with each of them over the years is priceless too. ❤ This may unselfishly lead to the future purchase of a family aircraft for more family adventures.👍
Who knows it could lead to careers in aviation for the kids?😍 There’s nothing like exposing young minds to the physical and emotional joy of flying while showing them just how much bigger the world is than the one they know. Instead of Dad can I borrow the car for a date it could be can I have the keys to Bess? I have a date‼️🍀
Some great ideas. Now if we can get Walmart to put a runway in their carpark you will really have the wife on your side.
@@MENSA.lady2 Some of them are certainly large enough‼️!
About 2000’ oughta do it⁉️🤔🤪😜🍀
@@TomasAWalker53 I had the outlet alongside the freeway on the south side of Atlanta Airport. I believe it's walmart's largest store.
Buti fuel plane
'PromoSM' 😑