If I may add something more: *The error messages are too helpful:* The error messages are too helpful, to the point where telling your boss you haven't managed to get any work done because you were trying to fix a compilation error is no longer a valid excuse.
Please enjoy the following deleted scene, straight from the original script: Bad for job security, again: when you make a mistake the Rust compiler not only tell you where and why, but it also tells you how to fix it. Sometimes it will even offer to fix it itself! Mark my words: the machines are taking our jobs. I want you to look Duncan in the eyes and tell him: I'm sorry Duncan, the special compiler error intervention team has been downsized. Do you think Duncan wants to do feature work? No! Duncan is out of a job now. Woe is them, another victim of progress.
The true measure of a compiler's productivity is the number of lines of error messages it produces. Therefore my c++ compiler while I am writing templates simply puts the (frankly, lazy) rust compiler to shame.
Too helpful indeed, the error messages are too clear and concise, you won't experience the amazing feeling and satisfaction of solving a cryptic puzzle.
@@jordixboy he got mad becouse he was criticising features as being bad. Like complaining that toast is too toasty and should be wet. Edit: forgot too mention it’s just a theory and don’t get mad if I’m wrong
Truly amazing list. Makes me glad to work at my corporate Java job. Checking every argument for null and copying every argument object I pass into a function because it could be mutated and that wouldn't be good puts hair on your chest!
@@vishnuc2682 Wow that sounds amazing! I think writing more code and exposing yourself to runtime errors really makes you the best programmer you can be! Nobody rides cycles with training wheels of course, so why would I want my programming language to tell me what to do? Go sounds like the perfect language. I will make sure to look for a Go job if I decide not to retire in 40 years from my enterprise Java job.
@@fasterthanlime what about compatible code??? most of codes were written on c/c++, so no one can avoid to call unsafe funcs. furthermore, rust or no rust, but a lot of errors are hw-based. so, really - what does rust offer at the end of a day??? *muddy-maddy mix of rust+c/c++.* no one will be writing truly rust codes w/ no c/c++ parts, because it's too pricey.
Job security is so real! I’m currently fixing bugs in Java that was written 20 years back! Imagine what would happen to developers like me and our families if they were written in rust
We are kidding here, but I remember watching a talk of some very serious developer back in 2014 about how Git was taking away a coworker's job who used to stay late chatting with them while fixing merging conflicts from Subversions. It was surreal to watch someone try to actually use that argument. At that moment it dawned on me why some Software Engineering teams have been programming like it's the 2100s since 1950s while other teams couldn't progress pass the 1980s.
@@fasterthanlimeCan't you find it in your heart to hate the Brits more than the Americans? All we ever did to you was not have your back after you helped out in the revolutionary war, and the occasional surrendering to the Nazis joke. The Brits have like a whole millennium of beef with you guys, you should be using the American spelling out of principle.
Yeah, the challenge with deadpan comedy is, you have to pay attention to recognize that it's comedy. If you're only half listening, you miss the point entirely.
If they were to add support for null (it's a basic feature, crazy that they haven't thought of adding it), make the compiler messages much more cryptic, make it dynamically typed, and make all data mutable by default I think I'd be able to love it more. But currently it lacks the appeal of writing completely unsafe programs and the fact that I have to *tell it* what type I want a variable to be is such a bother.
(Before I start, yes, I know the video is a joke) Funnily enough, the job security point is kinda right. Most crates had their last update like 5 years ago at best, not because they are abandoned, but because they are finished. The rust compiler forced the crates to be perfect almost immediately after release, so there's nothing to work on anymore
Good video, sarcasm could have been shrouded a bit more, so rust haters would've agreed with you. The same thing happened with Ben Awad in the TypeScript video.
You may want to learn GLSL, it can be even more satisfying. Who needs any control of memory, just write code which is accidentally trying to fit 3 MB of data in 16 kB L1 cashe slot and get all of your data ovewrritten with zeroes. No data - no problem.
I have to be honest though that I cannot find pure Rust jobs currently in Greece. Granted our market is quite small. However, even in Europe most jobs are using Rust as a supplemental language. It needs time obviously but I had to comment that job wise it is not that easy to find work. In many cases the role is for C/C++ with Rust as secondary option.
But what people always forget when evaluating a computer language, are the ecosystem of available libraries. C++ is going to have MANY more good choices for library support. I don't really want to write those libraries myself. That's why I haven't switched to Rust.
@@TheRealFFS I am exaggerating. That said, my experience using libraries in C++ was far more painful than any other language, to the point that I wouldn't even look for a library for simpler tasks, I would just do them myself. In other languages I would always look for a library before making my own.
@@SemiMono the same apply for rust but at least the language got nice tooling by default, but the library situation is kinda the same if not worse, no documentation or extremely barebones examples that do not go beyond an "hello world" example, and good luck trying to google for a solution, and dont get me started on rust fanatics making fun of java/c# devs for being verbose where in rust i have to write hundreds of lines for simple tasks where in java is a one liner... btw i speak from professional experience with rust...rust will never replace c++, can be something like a companion but not replacing, also keep in mind that c++ is also used because it comply with specification stanrdards for being used in specific domain (healthcare, pa, army), theres a reason its still widely used
@@sharkpyro93 Thanks for responding. Unfortunately (I think), I don't have any experience with rust libs. I struggle to see how the language and accompanying tooling wouldn't make it easier to find and use libraries (provided they exist) than in C++, but I don't have the actually hands on experience with rust to say. Yes, some industries are very slow to adopt new standards, and I can't say rust has a dependable enough spec, though I also know the C++ spec is so convoluted that it's difficult to claim it has a "dependable" spec.
Duncan Farside is a menace, but the truth is the truth. Thank you for your public service. Lovely intro/outro jingle as well. Makes me feel extra informed.
@@fasterthanlime I didn't know that you made it. It sounds really nice. Did not have "Amos becomes a jingle maker" on my 2023 predictions list. It's also really cool that you found the time and freedom to do this. Hope this new career path goes great for you. I've enjoyed your content for years and hope to be here for more.
Number 7 is just a good old strawman of the actual criticisms of how Rust deals with it community by imposing its own political ideology from the top-down with its code of conduct. Have you considered not every coder is a progressive? Perhaps, and I know that must sound crazy, that not everyone that is not a progressive is not evil? Hmm, something to think about, perhaps.
I was trying to figure out whether an option was just checking for nulls with extra steps the other day and its finally dawned on me that even though its basically the same thing, the value is actually in knowing whether a function needs nulls to account for some edge cases, or whether you can be sure they won't happen at all, its just guaranteeing no surprises.
This was the first contact I had with your channel and had no idea where I was The first point was so stupid I wanted to rant and while writing a comment I overheard "support for null" It was a critical hit Once a month I will come here, watch the entire thing, and still laugh with joy. Thank you
WRONG! Rust absolutely does support Null. Just use raw pointers everywhere like it's 1970s. It's not like there has been any progress in CS since then away...
You totally got me here 🤣🤣🤣 Dammit I didn't expect so much sarcasm 🤣 Also, as a Rustacean, I love your two sentences: "I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick of this constant barrage of propaganda about Rust. If you listen to them, it's the best thing since sliced bread." Like, at this point, Rust propaganda even a meme, and seeing how it expands is quite funny. Of course, whatever we say about any language, what's important is that for a new project, you take the language most suitable for it. Rust can simply not be the universal answer, that's why I see RIIR and Rust propaganda as a meme
That article was a waste of my time. So delusional. They really fail to see C++ from the point of view of someone new to the language about to learn the whole thing. They also fail that the single major problem of C++ that stops it solving its problems is that it has to remain backward compatible.
@@ArgoIo My impression is that they are not so much in denial, as in panic mode. The problem with C++ is that it's almost unfixable, because it's foundation is very poor.
You forgot the obvious one: It is strongly typed. You cannot make a function that takes an integer and pass a string into it, which is clearly restricting developer options.
@@fasterthanlime What we have nowadays is more like a paradox of "marginalized groups" Basicially everywhere you go, including in the rust community apparently, these "marginalized groups" are an overrepresented and specially protected class.
"It moves too slow", "It moves too fast", "It's too opinionated", "It's not opinionated enough" ... Those sentences made me say: Wait... He can't be that serious... It is probably a joke...
I was watching this video because of my frustration after reading the "References and Borrowing" chapter on the rust-book. More frustration after realizing what this video is about! No option other than diving back into the next chapter.
Rust coders simply can't compete with seasoned C++ coders. Coding in Rust is like being thrown in a padded room with nothing sharp in sight. Coding in C++ is like being thrown in the wilderness with nothing but a knife. Who do you think wins when it comes to experience?
I realized that something was off after you said that Rust is: "Moving too slow" and then "Moving too fast". Thank you for philosophical entertainment at 4 am.
I watched 3 first points and they are stupid. Null is not there intentionally, even creator of the null said it’s his biggest mistake. Moving slowly for not having null - it’s a speculation man
I love how people using rust are neglecting the primary usage of C a d C++ (high performance computing). No HFT trading firm or scientific institution is ever going to use Rust over C/C++ simply for the fact its less configurable to optimize for micro optimization, is too restrictive (even in unsafe mode) and does not allow you to optimize the code to a certain degree to produce a binary with a better runtime. Also tools and libraries for C/C++ are more advanced and understood. Comparing C/C++ with Rust is like comparing a F1 car with a supercar. Yes a supercar is plenty fast but a F1 cars primary and secondary purpose is too traverse a circuit as fast as possible, so it will always be faster. The safety, beauty or usability of an F1 are none considerations, only that it goes fast.
@@TRAMP-oline i am not nitpicking, i am giving an analogy between the philosophy of C/C++ vs Rust and why they shouldn’t be compared. If it comforts you, I am developing software for financial exchanges using both Rust and C++ professionally and can say without a doubt that exchanges using C++ are much more centered around low latency...
I know nothing of Rust, so I must acknowledge the incredible editing and tone of the video that you clued me in on what I was watching within the first 35 seconds. Or it was the sliced bread.. Maybe that's why it's the benchmark :P
Worked commercially with rust before, there are some good parts and some bad parts like in any language. I came into the video with the expectation of this being a rundown of the tradeoffs rust provides and i was met with disappointment that this video is just a troll. Please do a video why you should learn COBOL as your first programming language in 2023.
What a brave man, exposing all the dirty behind Rust. I'll abandon every project I have in rust in favor of more inclusive, opinionated and, preferably, interpreted language.
You forgot to mention: It's too popular. Since it is a framework that is loved by so many. I don't like it because that means I don't get an opportunity of being "That guy that is an expert at that language".
Considering that Rust is still used by a very small percentage of programmers, you totally get to be that guy. Hopefully, things will change in the future
Honestly this is so true. And as others have said, how am I supposed to waste time at my job if the compiler literally spells out the exact issue and how to fix it? The answer: UA-cam.
It’s not that rust lacks support for null, it’s just seen that there are better ways to use code than to use null values and it forces you to learn other coding methods so you can be more effective. It also gives full control over memory, allowing memory hacks originally seen in Microsoft computers to slowly get worked out this video is bogus and I only had to get 1:22 seconds in to realize that it’s made for media sheeples.
The worst thing about rust is that I lost that burning feeling in my chest that never went away, and I lost my jawline from not grinding my teeth for 14 hrs a day. Would not recommend.
"Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views." This video REALLY needs a sarcasm tag!
I'm interested in Rust, and having super-fast code does sound cool, but from the little I've experienced Rust is super-complicated (I really bounced off of it) and doesn't have the kindest/ most welcoming of communities. Any advice on how I should proceed?
I did struggle a bunch with Rust initially, which motivated me to start writing about it - you'll find tons of beginner-friendly material about it on my website, fasterthanli.me/
I struggled with it too and still somewhat do but the best way to learn it is just to use it. You shouldn’t have to fight the borrow checker if you already have good habits from other languages. It’s still not my favorite language, that would fall to C++, but God I hope it replaces Java in the near future.
You should put more effort into it, it will pay off. Rust has a pretty steep learning curve, I'll give it that, but it's not like Haskell which forces you into some paradigm that you cannot evade, so once you truly understand lifetimes and such, it will be no more difficult than any other similarly capable language. Or, alternatively, put Rust away for now, get a middle level of proficiency at C++ (should only take a few years), then realise that C++ is fast but sucks ass, and come back to Rust, which will now feel easy. Regarding the community, you must be joking. It's one of the best. Often (>99% of the time) I don't even need to ask a question on the forums, because it has already been answered in detail with many great insights from various commenters on how to solve the problem even more idiomatically or efficiently.
I know this video is satire, but, well, I still don't want to use Rust. I just don't like its formatting and syntax. Firstly, braces. Braces can't be on newlines, like it is engrained in my mind, they have to start on the same line and you have no choice. This makes the code look "skewed", overly asymmetrical. I don't like this in Dart as well, though there Flutter kinda makes a good case for it, since it makes heavy use of nesting within constructors and function calls, so newline curly braces would look inconsistent with all those inline parentheses (and newline parentheses would be weird). But, Rust doesn't have Flutter. It's not all though. I don't like trailing types. They look wrong to me. It's gotta be the C way for me: "type_name variable_or_function_name". Or at this point, I'd rather have it "var type_name variable_name". And finally, "fn". This keyword confuses me. It looks and sounds too similar to "FM". And well, C-style languages don't even need a keyword for functions. But at least have it be "func"... I can stomach 2 extra characters, and now it reads far more intuitively. I don't mean that Rust is bad, its syntax and formatting conventions simply conflict with the conventions that I grew up with. It is theoretically close, but it just differs in those small parts, thus placing it in the uncanny valley for me. Sorry, I might've written this a bit too saltily... I wonder if it would be pheasible to make a fork of Rust with just slightly different syntax... What if we call it... let's say, "Crust".
At first I was watching this trying to understand the bad points, then I started to think there is some sarcasm going on ... Took me till number 8 to figure it out hahah
My boss sent me this and said that i should watch it before suggesting rust, However i think he should also watch it before he suggests the video :))
Haha
Does he have pointy hair?
@@jan10n no hairs. 🗿
maybe he was joking as well xD
Has he watched it yet? I really want to know his reaction
If I may add something more:
*The error messages are too helpful:* The error messages are too helpful, to the point where telling your boss you haven't managed to get any work done because you were trying to fix a compilation error is no longer a valid excuse.
Please enjoy the following deleted scene, straight from the original script:
Bad for job security, again: when you make a mistake the Rust compiler not only tell you where and why, but it also tells you how to fix it. Sometimes it will even offer to fix it itself! Mark my words: the machines are taking our jobs. I want you to look Duncan in the eyes and tell him: I'm sorry Duncan, the special compiler error intervention team has been downsized. Do you think Duncan wants to do feature work? No! Duncan is out of a job now. Woe is them, another victim of progress.
The true measure of a compiler's productivity is the number of lines of error messages it produces. Therefore my c++ compiler while I am writing templates simply puts the (frankly, lazy) rust compiler to shame.
I know right. Feels like the compiler loves me so much that it secretly wants to adopt me, and `Clippy` wants to cuddle me to death.
Too helpful indeed, the error messages are too clear and concise, you won't experience the amazing feeling and satisfaction of solving a cryptic puzzle.
@@fasterthanlime Uncanny, I read this in the voice of Duncan Farside
I got so incredibly mad and was about to write a 5 page essay debunking every single point until I realized it was a joke
if you get mad because someone is criticing a language you have a problem.
Then my work here is done. (I'm curious how long it took you to realize it was a joke though, just for my records).
@@jordixboy he got mad becouse he was criticising features as being bad. Like complaining that toast is too toasty and should be wet.
Edit: forgot too mention it’s just a theory and don’t get mad if I’m wrong
Wouldn't surprise me if there was a chatGPT API in Rust which could do that for you now
I laugh at null part lol its actually good that Rust inform you that a type is nullable or can be None since null refs are annoying to deal with
really makes you feel like you're a hacker news subscriber
I've been trying out this rust thing and have been appalled at it not letting me get a segmentation fault! This is some draconian oppression!
Yes!! Also Rust doesn't let you get the bonus data. C does!
they introduced a keyword that lets you still get segfaults, but its just too much wooooork
You can see crate cve-rs, it has blazingly fast 🚀 memory vulnerabilities, written in 100% safe Rust.
Also long-term exposure can lead to siderosis, a condition in which iron deposits build up in the lungs.
Worse, it can lead to gray matter deposits in the brain, and some people have extremely negative reactions to that.
Wrong type of rust I think? Rust is a fungus
@@zyansheep surely they meant to talk about the game?
@@zyansheep why do I see you everywhere Rust related xD. Hi fellow rkyvian
@@sw874 👋
Truly amazing list. Makes me glad to work at my corporate Java job. Checking every argument for null and copying every argument object I pass into a function because it could be mutated and that wouldn't be good puts hair on your chest!
@@vishnuc2682 Wow that sounds amazing! I think writing more code and exposing yourself to runtime errors really makes you the best programmer you can be! Nobody rides cycles with training wheels of course, so why would I want my programming language to tell me what to do?
Go sounds like the perfect language. I will make sure to look for a Go job if I decide not to retire in 40 years from my enterprise Java job.
I'm glad my wife doesn't code in Java.
hahaha u r absolutely right
lol JAVA
Dont't use exception in exceed that break the program flow by dangling pointers (use something that has been destroyed)
I can't believe that someone finally adressed the fact that rust is a comunist language. Truly one of the lists of all time.
Given the number of LGBT members of the trust community, it really is the language of choice for Gay Space Communism.
@@angeldude101 everyone getting equal amounts of gay action? Sign me up
Communist language? You meant 白左?
@@angeldude101I, for one, welcome our new gay space communist overlords.
We should mention also that it's a great place for gender propaganda.
Can't thank you enough for your bravery in bringing this to light!
I'm just doing me job ^DF
@@fasterthanlime what about compatible code??? most of codes were written on c/c++, so no one can avoid to call unsafe funcs. furthermore, rust or no rust, but a lot of errors are hw-based. so, really - what does rust offer at the end of a day???
*muddy-maddy mix of rust+c/c++.*
no one will be writing truly rust codes w/ no c/c++ parts, because it's too pricey.
Job security is so real! I’m currently fixing bugs in Java that was written 20 years back! Imagine what would happen to developers like me and our families if they were written in rust
We are kidding here, but I remember watching a talk of some very serious developer back in 2014 about how Git was taking away a coworker's job who used to stay late chatting with them while fixing merging conflicts from Subversions.
It was surreal to watch someone try to actually use that argument. At that moment it dawned on me why some Software Engineering teams have been programming like it's the 2100s since 1950s while other teams couldn't progress pass the 1980s.
if you are lucky enough, rust developer can throug in a few reference cycles to leak memory and future generations to fix :P
@josh chong r/woooosh
@josh chong yes, printers suck
Watching this video early this morning absolutely made my day! (rookie Rust programmer)
Great editing, great humour, great presentation. Best sub I've had in years
I like that you've used the proper spelling of "humour". Brings a little colour to this comment section.
@@fasterthanlimeCan't you find it in your heart to hate the Brits more than the Americans? All we ever did to you was not have your back after you helped out in the revolutionary war, and the occasional surrendering to the Nazis joke. The Brits have like a whole millennium of beef with you guys, you should be using the American spelling out of principle.
This was so deadpan that I spent the first minute wondering if you were seriously saying that. Brilliantly done and absolutely hillarious.
Yeah, the challenge with deadpan comedy is, you have to pay attention to recognize that it's comedy. If you're only half listening, you miss the point entirely.
If they were to add support for null (it's a basic feature, crazy that they haven't thought of adding it), make the compiler messages much more cryptic, make it dynamically typed, and make all data mutable by default I think I'd be able to love it more. But currently it lacks the appeal of writing completely unsafe programs and the fact that I have to *tell it* what type I want a variable to be is such a bother.
That’s what makes us developers feel safe
Agreed. How else will I know I'm coding correctly if my program memory isnt as leaky as a rusty (uh non-rusty) bucket?
Exactly . It's 2023 for crying out loud and I still have to Explicitly Tell the type of my variable !? 😂😂
just want to say that 95% of the time the types of variables can be inferred ;)
This was so great to watch! Finally, someone was brave enough to say something! Please keep up the great work!
Lol I think it was a joke 🤣
@@BoxingHacker yea, my comment is as well 😭😭
@@emmavdev lol
Honestly, leaving a like for that "Can't spell progress without 'ogre'" joke.
I'm surprised how popular it is. It's the last thing I added to the script before shooting!
@@fasterthanlime Stop shooting people!
I was actually pretty excited to see this from you but this is hilarious lmao
I might make a serious one, but I'd need to find 10 reasons.
@@fasterthanlime >:)
The worst update to UA-cam is they hide the count of the dislike button
Copium deluxe 😂
just realized you said "C Octothorpe" and it's now killing me
(Before I start, yes, I know the video is a joke)
Funnily enough, the job security point is kinda right. Most crates had their last update like 5 years ago at best, not because they are abandoned, but because they are finished. The rust compiler forced the crates to be perfect almost immediately after release, so there's nothing to work on anymore
"C-Octothorpe" - actual lol. actually constant lol so far
finally someone is brave enough to say things how they are
Number 10 - zero memory safety vulnerabilities discovered because engineers are still trying to figure out why Rust code doesn't want to compile ; )
Nets more time for everyone, I call it a success!
Less shipped code = less production bugs. Ironclad equation
Hahaha this is so funny
Hahaha
Good video, sarcasm could have been shrouded a bit more, so rust haters would've agreed with you. The same thing happened with Ben Awad in the TypeScript video.
So you may to tell me Ben has the same chair /and/ the same sense of humor?? We truly must meet
You've totally convince me to continue using Rust. Keep up the excellent work.
Because you are totally stupid))
After not liking Rust I went back to C. I actually realized that nobody actually needs memory management, just leak everything. Lifetimes are stupid.
You may want to learn GLSL, it can be even more satisfying.
Who needs any control of memory, just write code which is accidentally trying to fit 3 MB of data in 16 kB L1 cashe slot and get all of your data ovewrritten with zeroes.
No data - no problem.
I now write all my code using "cat my.exe" because who needs memory safety, or really any other form of protection from bugs?
@@kacperrutkowski6350 Also, almost no way to debug = no bugs to be found.
I LOVED this video!
I have to be honest though that I cannot find pure Rust jobs currently in Greece. Granted our market is quite small. However, even in Europe most jobs are using Rust as a supplemental language. It needs time obviously but I had to comment that job wise it is not that easy to find work. In many cases the role is for C/C++ with Rust as secondary option.
But what people always forget when evaluating a computer language, are the ecosystem of available libraries. C++ is going to have MANY more good choices for library support. I don't really want to write those libraries myself. That's why I haven't switched to Rust.
Yeah, until you realize that most of those libraries are harder to use than just rewriting them.
@@SemiMono You don't really believe that, do you?
@@TheRealFFS I am exaggerating. That said, my experience using libraries in C++ was far more painful than any other language, to the point that I wouldn't even look for a library for simpler tasks, I would just do them myself. In other languages I would always look for a library before making my own.
@@SemiMono the same apply for rust but at least the language got nice tooling by default, but the library situation is kinda the same if not worse, no documentation or extremely barebones examples that do not go beyond an "hello world" example, and good luck trying to google for a solution, and dont get me started on rust fanatics making fun of java/c# devs for being verbose where in rust i have to write hundreds of lines for simple tasks where in java is a one liner... btw i speak from professional experience with rust...rust will never replace c++, can be something like a companion but not replacing, also keep in mind that c++ is also used because it comply with specification stanrdards for being used in specific domain (healthcare, pa, army), theres a reason its still widely used
@@sharkpyro93 Thanks for responding. Unfortunately (I think), I don't have any experience with rust libs. I struggle to see how the language and accompanying tooling wouldn't make it easier to find and use libraries (provided they exist) than in C++, but I don't have the actually hands on experience with rust to say.
Yes, some industries are very slow to adopt new standards, and I can't say rust has a dependable enough spec, though I also know the C++ spec is so convoluted that it's difficult to claim it has a "dependable" spec.
i genuinly love this. you sir are a comedic genius
Duncan Farside is a menace, but the truth is the truth. Thank you for your public service.
Lovely intro/outro jingle as well. Makes me feel extra informed.
I will not answer questions on how long I spent composing the jingle unless my attorney is present.
@@fasterthanlime I didn't know that you made it. It sounds really nice. Did not have "Amos becomes a jingle maker" on my 2023 predictions list.
It's also really cool that you found the time and freedom to do this. Hope this new career path goes great for you. I've enjoyed your content for years and hope to be here for more.
Number 7 is just a good old strawman of the actual criticisms of how Rust deals with it community by imposing its own political ideology from the top-down with its code of conduct.
Have you considered not every coder is a progressive? Perhaps, and I know that must sound crazy, that not everyone that is not a progressive is not evil? Hmm, something to think about, perhaps.
truly one of the videos of all time
Amazing video!
I believe it should be adopted by Rust and become an official "anti-Rust" video.
You got me laughing so hard at "...lacks support for `null`" I missed the entirety of the rest of the video and had to watch it again
I was trying to figure out whether an option was just checking for nulls with extra steps the other day and its finally dawned on me that even though its basically the same thing, the value is actually in knowing whether a function needs nulls to account for some edge cases, or whether you can be sure they won't happen at all, its just guaranteeing no surprises.
I won't stand for the go slander, so I'm currently sitting down
This was the first contact I had with your channel and had no idea where I was
The first point was so stupid I wanted to rant and while writing a comment I overheard "support for null"
It was a critical hit
Once a month I will come here, watch the entire thing, and still laugh with joy.
Thank you
WRONG! Rust absolutely does support Null. Just use raw pointers everywhere like it's 1970s. It's not like there has been any progress in CS since then away...
Yeah but in Rust null is a function.. that's weak.
edit: it's actually /two/ functions
@@fasterthanlime Well, that's what you get when language lacks classes - it functions. Some commie propaganda nonsense if you ask me.
I am just wondering how the author was able to stay all those 5 minutes with a straight face and not dying out of laughter
🤣😆 Very funny video, The video is framed as a big Sarcasm, talking about 10 REASONS TO USE RUST. Excellent video😆
You totally got me here 🤣🤣🤣 Dammit I didn't expect so much sarcasm 🤣
Also, as a Rustacean, I love your two sentences:
"I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick of this constant barrage of propaganda about Rust. If you listen to them, it's the best thing since sliced bread."
Like, at this point, Rust propaganda even a meme, and seeing how it expands is quite funny.
Of course, whatever we say about any language, what's important is that for a new project, you take the language most suitable for it. Rust can simply not be the universal answer, that's why I see RIIR and Rust propaganda as a meme
It's the condescending tone of videos like that stop me from using rust
Huh? Aren't all those arguments good?
oh wait i understand. Took a minute.
Hahahaha
Gives me faith in humanity after that DG Opinion on Safety for ISO C++ article
That article was a waste of my time. So delusional. They really fail to see C++ from the point of view of someone new to the language about to learn the whole thing. They also fail that the single major problem of C++ that stops it solving its problems is that it has to remain backward compatible.
Just read the article. Uff... They sure are in denial.
@@ArgoIo Literally actual C++ developers know more than them lmao
@@ArgoIo My impression is that they are not so much in denial, as in panic mode. The problem with C++ is that it's almost unfixable, because it's foundation is very poor.
I got here through a click-bait title. I am on the fence about Rust but this was very helpful. Thanks.
I found this video very entertaining, a number of parts had me laughing out loud. Very well done
That small "C octothorpe" joke really got me good.
Not having fancy bufferoverflow exploits prevents me from being a Rust fan too
great video :o
It wasn't until number 7 that I realized it's a joke😂😂😂
Well, we have another one...
😂😂😂😂😂
There are now 11 reasons.
Okay, you've convinced me to learn Rust. How do I start?
take your pick from fasterthanli.me/tags/rust !
Perpetuating the idea that rust is perfect is just harmful to its development and the people that would have been better off using another language.
phew, i almost tried rust. thanks for giving me the whole truth. dodged a bullet there.
You forgot the obvious one: It is strongly typed. You cannot make a function that takes an integer and pass a string into it, which is clearly restricting developer options.
Take a look at rust generics, it's like C++ templates.
I'm glad that I've watched full video and didn't gave up Rust so soon :D
I didn't know rust did regression tests on all published crates. I'm impressed.
that point got me thinking too. BTW, npm might also do this - they show status for the package on installation, maybe it's a manual thing.
LMAO... Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half.
I thought proc macros were the best thing since &bread[..]
This is awesome. Thank goodness I never switched from C++. XD
> [no. 7] Rust is inclusive
> Proof: here's a list of people who are excluded
This... might be a good argument, but George Orwell just shat his pants.
You're referering to the "paradox of tolerance", which is a rich debate area, you might want to look it up.
@@fasterthanlime What we have nowadays is more like a paradox of "marginalized groups" Basicially everywhere you go, including in the rust community apparently, these "marginalized groups" are an overrepresented and specially protected class.
"It moves too slow", "It moves too fast", "It's too opinionated", "It's not opinionated enough" ... Those sentences made me say: Wait... He can't be that serious... It is probably a joke...
Thanks for enlighten me about the rust fasicsts! Everyone needs to know about this!!!!
Yes, those rust communists! They're just too hecking centrist!!
I was watching this video because of my frustration after reading the "References and Borrowing" chapter on the rust-book.
More frustration after realizing what this video is about!
No option other than diving back into the next chapter.
This is stupid, condescending and arrogant. I love it!
Had me sweating in the first half, ngl
I'm picking up your sarcasm, and I love it.
Rust coders simply can't compete with seasoned C++ coders.
Coding in Rust is like being thrown in a padded room with nothing sharp in sight. Coding in C++ is like being thrown in the wilderness with nothing but a knife.
Who do you think wins when it comes to experience?
I realized that something was off after you said that Rust is: "Moving too slow" and then "Moving too fast".
Thank you for philosophical entertainment at 4 am.
I watched 3 first points and they are stupid. Null is not there intentionally, even creator of the null said it’s his biggest mistake. Moving slowly for not having null - it’s a speculation man
It's partly a joke
Spend all time obsessing over programming language and no time actually coding the product #rust
I was about to get mad about the first one for several reasons before this turned out to be a joke
I love how people using rust are neglecting the primary usage of C a d C++ (high performance computing). No HFT trading firm or scientific institution is ever going to use Rust over C/C++ simply for the fact its less configurable to optimize for micro optimization, is too restrictive (even in unsafe mode) and does not allow you to optimize the code to a certain degree to produce a binary with a better runtime.
Also tools and libraries for C/C++ are more advanced and understood.
Comparing C/C++ with Rust is like comparing a F1 car with a supercar. Yes a supercar is plenty fast but a F1 cars primary and secondary purpose is too traverse a circuit as fast as possible, so it will always be faster. The safety, beauty or usability of an F1 are none considerations, only that it goes fast.
hyperfocal nitpicking. other people are coding and loving it. you are complaining about nothing-imaginaries
@@TRAMP-oline i am not nitpicking, i am giving an analogy between the philosophy of C/C++ vs Rust and why they shouldn’t be compared.
If it comforts you, I am developing software for financial exchanges using both Rust and C++ professionally and can say without a doubt that exchanges using C++ are much more centered around low latency...
This is slightly irrelevant, but I'm absolutely floored by the fact Google made a language from scratch and still put null in it. I don't understand.
seems like this was released 71 days to early.
I know nothing of Rust, so I must acknowledge the incredible editing and tone of the video that you clued me in on what I was watching within the first 35 seconds.
Or it was the sliced bread.. Maybe that's why it's the benchmark :P
Worked commercially with rust before, there are some good parts and some bad parts like in any language. I came into the video with the expectation of this being a rundown of the tradeoffs rust provides and i was met with disappointment that this video is just a troll. Please do a video why you should learn COBOL as your first programming language in 2023.
Bingo ! Here you go . Thank you
What a brave man, exposing all the dirty behind Rust. I'll abandon every project I have in rust in favor of more inclusive, opinionated and, preferably, interpreted language.
You forgot to mention: It's too popular. Since it is a framework that is loved by so many. I don't like it because that means I don't get an opportunity of being "That guy that is an expert at that language".
Considering that Rust is still used by a very small percentage of programmers, you totally get to be that guy. Hopefully, things will change in the future
Honestly this is so true. And as others have said, how am I supposed to waste time at my job if the compiler literally spells out the exact issue and how to fix it? The answer: UA-cam.
It’s not that rust lacks support for null, it’s just seen that there are better ways to use code than to use null values and it forces you to learn other coding methods so you can be more effective. It also gives full control over memory, allowing memory hacks originally seen in Microsoft computers to slowly get worked out this video is bogus and I only had to get 1:22 seconds in to realize that it’s made for media sheeples.
in addition to the amazing jokes, impressive production quality: the intro/outro jingles and greenscreen setup are top notch!
The worst thing about rust is that I lost that burning feeling in my chest that never went away, and I lost my jawline from not grinding my teeth for 14 hrs a day. Would not recommend.
"Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views."
This video REALLY needs a sarcasm tag!
*after hearing the first reason: "what the fuck?"
*after watching the whole video: "what the fuck?"
Null was a oblivion doller mistake. Rust introduce Option enum to manage empty values.
1 year later and this still still so good.
Damn, I even read the "no progress without ogre" when I saw this on Reddit yesterday but still caught me completely off guard.
I'm interested in Rust, and having super-fast code does sound cool, but from the little I've experienced Rust is super-complicated (I really bounced off of it) and doesn't have the kindest/ most welcoming of communities. Any advice on how I should proceed?
I did struggle a bunch with Rust initially, which motivated me to start writing about it - you'll find tons of beginner-friendly material about it on my website, fasterthanli.me/
I struggled with it too and still somewhat do but the best way to learn it is just to use it. You shouldn’t have to fight the borrow checker if you already have good habits from other languages. It’s still not my favorite language, that would fall to C++, but God I hope it replaces Java in the near future.
You should put more effort into it, it will pay off. Rust has a pretty steep learning curve, I'll give it that, but it's not like Haskell which forces you into some paradigm that you cannot evade, so once you truly understand lifetimes and such, it will be no more difficult than any other similarly capable language. Or, alternatively, put Rust away for now, get a middle level of proficiency at C++ (should only take a few years), then realise that C++ is fast but sucks ass, and come back to Rust, which will now feel easy.
Regarding the community, you must be joking. It's one of the best. Often (>99% of the time) I don't even need to ask a question on the forums, because it has already been answered in detail with many great insights from various commenters on how to solve the problem even more idiomatically or efficiently.
There's a package called rustlings that you could try out
@@bytefu is your comment targeted at me?
You can’t build it from source, with a non-rust compiler. Ie, you could hide Kernighan’s(? not sure whose) evil compiler in there.
Are you aware of the mrust compiler? It's specifically meant to be used for bootstrapping iirc.
love this!
I like that BBC morning news style stress accent approach
Unfortunately when you eliminate the old bugs, you may find yourself with a whole new class of bugs.
took me until #5 to realize it was a joke lmao
Why is rust bad:
Because it's too bad to be a real thing
Because it's too good to be a real thing
I know this video is satire, but, well, I still don't want to use Rust. I just don't like its formatting and syntax.
Firstly, braces. Braces can't be on newlines, like it is engrained in my mind, they have to start on the same line and you have no choice. This makes the code look "skewed", overly asymmetrical. I don't like this in Dart as well, though there Flutter kinda makes a good case for it, since it makes heavy use of nesting within constructors and function calls, so newline curly braces would look inconsistent with all those inline parentheses (and newline parentheses would be weird). But, Rust doesn't have Flutter.
It's not all though. I don't like trailing types. They look wrong to me. It's gotta be the C way for me: "type_name variable_or_function_name". Or at this point, I'd rather have it "var type_name variable_name".
And finally, "fn". This keyword confuses me. It looks and sounds too similar to "FM". And well, C-style languages don't even need a keyword for functions. But at least have it be "func"... I can stomach 2 extra characters, and now it reads far more intuitively.
I don't mean that Rust is bad, its syntax and formatting conventions simply conflict with the conventions that I grew up with. It is theoretically close, but it just differs in those small parts, thus placing it in the uncanny valley for me.
Sorry, I might've written this a bit too saltily...
I wonder if it would be pheasible to make a fork of Rust with just slightly different syntax... What if we call it... let's say, "Crust".
I was so pissed because I thought he was serious until number 4
At first I was watching this trying to understand the bad points, then I started to think there is some sarcasm going on ... Took me till number 8 to figure it out hahah
Fantastic! I was like "what? There are reasons not to?" LOL
I'm glad I was able to spot the direction of this video almost immediately.
Are you sure?
@@RustIsWinning Rust is awesome, of course I'm sure!