"What do you get for it?" You get to keep being a doctor. Publish or perish and all that rot. You are so good at pointing out the flaws in our systems. Love it!
it's pretty much all academics, I, unfortunately, have to say I was pretty ignorant and I don't know how they've managed to make me believe that the prestige was enough. Maybe that's why my teachers were always saying they wanted me to write papers and submit them to prestigious journals like the ASCE as a civil engineer it is one of the most prestigious. You spend many years of research and accumulate plenty of student debt (wich I'm still paying 3 years after I've quit school) all that to maybe be published for prestige.
In occupational therapy if we publish we get a single hour of continuing education credit towards the 36 hours we need for our license renewal! Whoop!!
@@kvjackal7980 National certification is every 3 years, state certification (24 hours/units) is every 2 years. It's really not hard to do, but I think its ridiculous that it is only 1 hour/ credit despite the hours that go into research for papers.
Prestige and exposure! Paying so many bills, putting so many roofs over heads, putting so much food on the ta--wait, what? Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm being told that utilities and stores don't accept prestige and exposure in exchange for their goods and services? Weird.
A senior resident where I trained once told me that his proudest accomplishment academically is that he will be board eligible in a month and NEVER published anything. I was in awe.
That's honestly sad, thinking that its great that he has never experienced research first hand while being in such a senior role 🤔 I've seen residents and attendings take role in "supervising" medical students in their researxh projects, and honestly they only cause their students suffering and lost hard work, whereas their project would have been far more successful and fruitful if their supervisor was experienced
@@BelalAlDroubi not everyone in medicine needa to publish research. There are a lot of great doctors who don't care about doing research. The incessant pressure for doctors to participate in research is why there is a lot of terrible research being published in the first place.
@@BelalAlDroubi physicians do not have to participate in research. its not sad that a physician would rather focus on clinical skills and practice rather than experimental design and methodology.
Don't forget that the reviewers of the papers also work for free, 'cause it's their duty as researchers. To review for the journal for free, 'cause it's not about the money.
I don't mind most of this system before the "prestige" kicks in. Or well, before you consider that the actual physical journals are by large not being produced anymore so that would cut the costs drastically and yet this is not the case. If the math of OA fees = wages of the editorial team, website maintenance etc. would check out, I would not have an issue with that at all. Or if these wages were covered by grants. The issue is it is a business, and one with huuuge margins at that (I reckon even EICs of big journals don't get as much money, it all gets funneled into the companies...)
And most of the time you pay the journal to publish, when you want it to be open access. A really well thought out system, that makes total sense i must say. 👍
I mean couldnt a doctor post findings online of their own accord? If they didnt care about profits, but cared about sticking it to companies. If I wasnt gonna get paid anyway, might as well make a statement.
@@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist but then it is not peer-reviewed. And you can forget your grant applications/jobs etc because it does not count. Maybe it is OK if you are a doctor but not as a scientist
As a researcher, I nearly spit out my coffee at the end, the facial expression is exactly what you see in grad school once you realize your earning potential after 5-7 years of grad school, and then the prospects of 3 to 10 years in post-doc publishing for free before you start your own lab.
That is if you work in field that allows you to start lab but imagine all those poor souls in social sciences, me in economy I work as accountant by day and play scientist/lecturer in evenings and weekends so my family has something to eat and roof over their head.
This is one of many disgruntlements with academia that led me to leave my biochem PhD. Its a tough system to exist in. An original "work for exposure" and "arbitrarily made middleman".
@@fact4fiction35 To get your papers into prestigious journals, you need to make contacts. Your chances of getting your paper published have nothing to do with the quality of the paper and all to do with how much you positively interacted with the board and stuff of the journal. It's a circle-jerk and a nepotistic arrangement. An article published in some topmost journals make you likely to get recruited for some big money government research projects afterwards. It is all about relations and who you know. Most people stop writing papers or doing research and start doing admin stuff to collect those nepotism points.
As brought out in other comments: just contact the Authors direct, not only will they happily send you the articles but they'd also be able to answer questions for you (it also does them good to be cited in your paper).
The worst thing is the amounts they charge normal people to access papers make it inaccessible for most. Only companies and universities can afford to access it but they don’t even have to pay anyone for the work they are selling to others
@@HoloDaWisewolf nope. Just two days ago I accessed papers for psychology students doing year 12 course work that are not available free to access. One benefit of my exorbitant university fees that will leave me in debt for the next 10 years of my miserable life.
Oh it's easy. Like so many other things wrong with the world, social inertia. Or maybe it would be more accurate? to compare it to a false vacuum. The only way to get out is to quantum tunnel through or something gives it a real big energetic kick in the pants to get it over the hill. Or maybe you were just asking a rhetorical question.
I was told I couldn't continue in a nursing management job after a new group bought our hospital because my advanced degree is in Journalism not Nursing. I asked what they thought I would gain by going back to school after being a nurse for 20 years. They said I would learn advanced leadership, mind you, I had been doing this job quite successfully for 7 years. They also told me I would learn how to write and get published. I looked them straight in the eyes and said, that would be helpful because we had so little of that in JOURNALISM!!!
Wow, what a bunch of horseshit. I hope you've found a place that has respect and use for your skills and experience. You know, a place that values that you can actually do the job and do it well over the titles in your resume. 🙄
It may have been more justified in the past when journals actually had to “publish papers” on real physical papers and send them out globally. But when everything is online, “publication costs” (i.e. printing and shipping costs) are so much less. Imagine these days, exponential growth in journal articles; inversely proportional physical print publication costs due to digitalization. 🤨
Most of the prestigious, longatanding journals (as well as some of the younger but well recognized ones) still do print publishing of their journals. There's still many people who prefer to hold onto a physical paper to study. Not to mention many folks who keep up with journals may take them to work and read in the short times during the day that they may have
In the humanities, there's an additional concern that "prestige" of a journal is mostly arbitrary because the subdisciplines are so diverse. New and exciting research is mostly published in newly made journals but they don't count much for that reason.
@Tomato Trees Sound studies journal is one example. A lot of researchers from multiple disciplines (literature, philosophy, acoustics, music, etc.) contribute to it. It's a general trend that humanities are increasingly collaborating with other fields like the sound studies journal. A famous german media theorist that was trained in history actual taught computer science course in his later years!
The entire system is a scam 😂😭 This is why everyone should pirate the papers, to be honest. The actual writers get absolutely nothing even if you pay, and it all goes to the company who reap the benefits of the writers/researchers' hard work... Academia really does need a change. If it's really not about the money, why are they charging people to view the journal/articles while at the same time not giving a single dime to the people who actually did the research and wrote it? 😔 Both sides lose and only the publishing companies benefit.
Don't pirate it, but literally email the writer lol. They'll give you a free copy and if you're doing your own research sometimes they can even find time to call you! I did my thesis like that lol
@Shubham Dutt This should be some kind of secret people should learn in College/at Uni. But yeah, I did that too: emailed PhD's when I needed something restricted. They were happy to send me their whole dissertation and answer questions, if I had any.
@Shubham Dutt @Анка Ah, it never occurred to me to email them directly! I hesitate to do that because of irrational fears that I may be bothering them, but I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
@@preciousdishwasher and did they all answer? I wanted to do that for an essay I have to write, but since I'm an undergraduate student I felt it would be too preposterous of me to message them
Another problem is, the lecturer have to publish their research in prestigious journal, so they can get a promotion or salary raise (at least in some country)
Just here to up this, since a bot stole your comment. (also yes, and even to get a specialty in some countries they often look at whether you have published something and how often)
Former resident and current fellow at Columbia university, I have 1 publication as a resident and I can say that the entirety of the research I did was independent of my attending. My attending did absolutely no planning, had no idea what the goal of the research was and didn't have a clue as to how the progress of the project was going. Yet, she has over dozens of publications from using overzealous residents and fellows like myself. Due to this experience, I refused to do any research after that project. The attendings of big academic institutions often use research to get paid more but, more importantly, at these higher institutions, at least at Columbia, raises are purely based on how good you are at brown nosing. Also being Caucasian also helps. The combination of being white and being the ultimate brown noser will instantly earn you a department head title. Pretty sure this is true elsewhere. I just hope private practice isnt as bad as here.
@@Black.Spades Thank you for informed me that my comments have been stolen :) Yes, that's true. And some case, publishing several journal (but not always in prestigious one) became a mandatory to graduate and get a degree.
@@kiwibuddy @kiwibuddy Sadly, that happen almost in every field. I work as a laboratory analysis. Often helping residents, other students, or even a lecturer to collect data, analyse, or interpreting the result. When their journal were published, sometimes another name was included in that research, and i knew very well that certain name didn't involve in any research process but still wanted his/her name to be included because they need it as a "prove" that they worked properly. Btw, I'm non english speaker, "brown nose" is new idiom for me. Thank you for expanding my vocabulary :)
@@asrafelicia Hopefully they included you as a contributor. Just for your info, when these guys have their noses so far up the recipients anus it becomes chocolate dipped; hence, brown nosing. Some my attendings are probably better brown nosers than they are clinicians.
As a medical librarian who has to deal with how to pay for access, not even a physical copy, of these journals I feel this. Around me Elsevier has been known as Those Greedy Bastards for 2 decades.
this really weirded me out when I first heard about it. Now I am studying biomedical sciences and everyone is acting like this is the most normal thing ever. I really don't get it. Also, this is the exact reason why you can just mail the researcher for their paper if it is behind a paywall etc. They'll often be very glad to send it to you.
Have you ever gone to subscribe to an academic journal only to find out that the subscription rates are eye popping? I always thought it was because they're having to pay for research, but I guess not.
@@PhoenixRoseYT just look at their staff salaries. A few days ago, I googled the salaries of NEJM staff and it blew my mind. It'a a rip-off for researchers and readers alike.
As someone from a working class family who went into acadamia I've had so many of these conversations! Excellent point! 10+ yrs of debt and education & we are actually shamed if we mention $
Wait till he hears that you actually have to pay to get published in many journals and then people who want to read your paper get to pay outrageous fees 🤦 I work in academia and it's just bonkers. Guys if you find article you are interested but don't want to pay journal for it e mail us we will send it to you for free.
Same with drug companies. Undergrads and research students / interns could develop a new, effective treatment but the company gets all the rights. The one who figured it out doesn't even get the prestige. But lots of those research facilities are payed for with government money. Me being T1D it appalls me what has happened to insulin. Banting sold it over to the Toronto University for $1.
I don't know how this is even legal. They publish your paper and the readers/researchers pay them to access it. Whoever thought that and convinced people that it's totally fair is a fucking genius.
Well when actual paper printing was common, it was probably a good way of getting actual research out to those that needed it. But most stuff is online now. Its a case of, old tradition gaining power and influence, but is utterly pointless.
Don't forget the part where you have to first get those prestigious publications in order to convince the government that you and your research are worth finding.. Oh and that it can take well over a year for a manuscript to make it through the pier review process at those journals (or to sit under review for months only to get rejected). So fulfilling 😁
Told a normal person outside academia I was excited my pre print paper was already getting cited so much and they asked me if that was not a bad thing. They thought it was like a parking citation a bad thing not a good thing for publications.
So, if journals were social media users, we could all expect to get DMs like: "Hey Boss Babe, saw that you're working up a new de novo synthesis of dimethylchickenwire! Would love to do a collab! Give me your research, and I'll sell it from my web store, you won't see a cent but you'll get SO much exposure!" And that's just the 'respectable' journals, before we even get onto the ones that are actually identified as 'predatory'.
Ugh. SO SO True. Also don’t forget about your colleagues who want to be named on your paper, or your boss who takes the supervising Author credit who never lifted a fat finger to do anything to help.
I never submit work to journals. Give a talk at a meeting and present your research. I mean, you still have to pay to go to the meeting, usually, but they almost always have free danishes. You can stuff a lot of those bad boys into an XL Kirkland brand dress shirt.
No, that makes them look much more innocent. Its more like modelling agencies that make you pay them for a portfolio shoot only to get gigs that dont pay.
I had this conversation over and over with professors until one of them finally just told me “it’s a scam, but there’s not really a way out of it, although some people are trying to find one” she answered the question I didn’t know I had instead of the one I asked.
@@wolfpytlak2786 it's even more stupid 🤦🏻♀️ and like he said in the video, the journal gets visits/hits/downloads and recognition through the works they publish!! Prestige goes both ways i would say
I was doing my PhD thesis and this was one of the things that demotivated greatly. Also, it doesn’t get you that much of a prestige, aside from a tap on the back from your peers
I don't know why you're complaining, someone's got to pay off the yachts and golf fields of these company leaders. Where are they supposed to get the money for that?
It‘s so funny: i like your videos before i even watch them. You have something i can‘t quite pinpoint, i just star to giggle when i see you‘ve uploaded a video. I think it‘s your facial expressions. They crack me up more than anything else on youtube. Keep on sir, you‘re doing amazing sweetie 😂🤷🏻♀️
Also, publishing in the so-called peer-reviewed prestige publisher, there is this thing called "article processing fee" which ranges from couple hundreds to several thousands of US$ (for open access, faster reviewing process, and better chance to get their article accepted).. And some ppl just have to publish in them to keep their job or as the program's mandatory requirement for its "accreditation" which got renewed every several years. If you don't publish enough, "accreditation" will go down. Oh well...
Any article whose content was funded by the government (in part or in whole) should be available for free to the general public. Or at the very least it should become freely accessible after a short period of time.
I've seen that vid around in pretty much every academic circle I'm in so you certainly hit the spot. Literally scoring millions of views on Twitter. Yet ironically enough your credit was often nowhere to be seen. Your most spot on video about academic publishing also helped showcase a textbook case of plagiarism.
I feel this so hard... happened when I first told non-medical people when I published/got invited to conferences. It was eye opening... I started thinking that perhaps this is why pubs help bump up the pay so much when moving in academic rank (professorship). System is built weird.
We also have to fork our own expenses to present in a conference!!! Maybe we should choose a conference held in a nice hotel, at least those provided buffet lunch might seemed worth the fees 😂 😂 😂
The American healthcare system is like Homelander: constantly tells you that you are the hero, gives you meaningless pats on the back, then turns around and laser beams you with long hours, low pay, poor working conditions, and systemic burnout
Now, imagine that you are a university professor and one of your main performance indicator is how many paper you published that year and how many citation you received and if you don't cut it, you can lose your job and funding.
Yep, it's not about the money. That's why our annual postdoc salary at an NYC college isn't even enough to qualify for the university postdoc housing if we'd apply open market rules (40x rent).
Im surprised you didn't mention the fact YOU have to pay to read the thing later. I published a book chapter and couldn't read it cuz the paywall was 800 dollars, you had to buy the entire book
I’ve published in conference proceedings before…. The thought of pay never entered my mind lol. We had to pay them for the conference tickets. To present our paper. Which they published.
Some kajillionaire should start a few academic journals that actually pay authors and reviewers. They could still make bank, just a bit less than Elsevier. It’s a less-greed arbitrage waiting to happen.
Never trust businessmen to be the locomotives of social change. All they ever care about is profits. Most of the time, they simply disguise themselves in the mantle of caring about the academia/environment/equality/save the whales, to get an extra buck from the gullible upper class slacktivists.
If journals paid for your academia papers, there is the potential for conflict of interest = one of the main reasons you don't get paid is to reduce publication bias and skewed data sets
We should all just literally stop working with the publishers. Scientists stop accepting to be editors and scientists stop submitting papers to them. They will go bankrupt overnight
i've read today while the journal charges you an arm and a leg to read papers published in it, you can instead simply email the scientist directly and get the paper for free
Yep if you can't find it free online somewhere, just email the author. Most will be happy to send you the paper. If you pay the fee it goes to the publisher, the author gets nothing.
Meanwhile, the publishing execs are sitting around a giant mahogany table, drinking expensive single malt scotch and laughing at your expense. Never work for free. Trust me, there's always room in the budget. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. -Former Nonprofit Indentured Servant
They don't even pay for peer reviews most of the time, resulting in reviews that can go from "seems good I think" to "you should be ashamed of this paper, quit medicine you moron" Thanks Robert Maxwell
"What do you get for it?" You get to keep being a doctor. Publish or perish and all that rot. You are so good at pointing out the flaws in our systems. Love it!
it's pretty much all academics, I, unfortunately, have to say I was pretty ignorant and I don't know how they've managed to make me believe that the prestige was enough. Maybe that's why my teachers were always saying they wanted me to write papers and submit them to prestigious journals like the ASCE as a civil engineer it is one of the most prestigious. You spend many years of research and accumulate plenty of student debt (wich I'm still paying 3 years after I've quit school) all that to maybe be published for prestige.
So it’s paying for exposure
In occupational therapy if we publish we get a single hour of continuing education credit towards the 36 hours we need for our license renewal! Whoop!!
@@ISGROUP20113 Is that annual, or...?
@@kvjackal7980 National certification is every 3 years, state certification (24 hours/units) is every 2 years. It's really not hard to do, but I think its ridiculous that it is only 1 hour/ credit despite the hours that go into research for papers.
This is like when artists are published for "exposure." One of the bigger shams in the world is academic publishing and that needs to change.
It’s the first thing I though about yes
Same here.=
Prestige and exposure! Paying so many bills, putting so many roofs over heads, putting so much food on the ta--wait, what? Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm being told that utilities and stores don't accept prestige and exposure in exchange for their goods and services? Weird.
Nah, the great artist Hunter Biden makes bank for his masterpieces.
@@nickcarroll8565 😄
A senior resident where I trained once told me that his proudest accomplishment academically is that he will be board eligible in a month and NEVER published anything. I was in awe.
That's honestly sad, thinking that its great that he has never experienced research first hand while being in such a senior role 🤔
I've seen residents and attendings take role in "supervising" medical students in their researxh projects, and honestly they only cause their students suffering and lost hard work, whereas their project would have been far more successful and fruitful if their supervisor was experienced
What speciality may I ask?
@@BelalAlDroubi not everyone in medicine needa to publish research. There are a lot of great doctors who don't care about doing research. The incessant pressure for doctors to participate in research is why there is a lot of terrible research being published in the first place.
@@BelalAlDroubi physicians do not have to participate in research. its not sad that a physician would rather focus on clinical skills and practice rather than experimental design and methodology.
@@BelalAlDroubi not having published something does not mean someone did not experience research first hand.*
Don't forget that the reviewers of the papers also work for free, 'cause it's their duty as researchers. To review for the journal for free, 'cause it's not about the money.
I don't mind most of this system before the "prestige" kicks in. Or well, before you consider that the actual physical journals are by large not being produced anymore so that would cut the costs drastically and yet this is not the case. If the math of OA fees = wages of the editorial team, website maintenance etc. would check out, I would not have an issue with that at all. Or if these wages were covered by grants. The issue is it is a business, and one with huuuge margins at that (I reckon even EICs of big journals don't get as much money, it all gets funneled into the companies...)
Dr. G about to start a revolution in academia via social media and I’m here for it. ✊🏽✊🏾✊🏼✊🏿✊🏻
This has way too many likes to not have a comment so here you are! :D
But will that happen before or after the Johnathon revolution?
And most of the time you pay the journal to publish, when you want it to be open access. A really well thought out system, that makes total sense i must say. 👍
Makes total sense for the publishing companies that profit off it
And often you pay even if it is not open acess
I mean couldnt a doctor post findings online of their own accord?
If they didnt care about profits, but cared about sticking it to companies.
If I wasnt gonna get paid anyway, might as well make a statement.
Bigger scam
@@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist but then it is not peer-reviewed. And you can forget your grant applications/jobs etc because it does not count.
Maybe it is OK if you are a doctor but not as a scientist
In ballet a lot of times we don’t get paid, we get “exposure”. “It’s a great opportunity! You’ll get lots of exposure!” I like to call it free labor
As a researcher, I nearly spit out my coffee at the end, the facial expression is exactly what you see in grad school once you realize your earning potential after 5-7 years of grad school, and then the prospects of 3 to 10 years in post-doc publishing for free before you start your own lab.
If you get to start your own lab, which requires funding, which is heavily influenced by prior publications in prestigous journals.
That is if you work in field that allows you to start lab but imagine all those poor souls in social sciences, me in economy I work as accountant by day and play scientist/lecturer in evenings and weekends so my family has something to eat and roof over their head.
This is one of many disgruntlements with academia that led me to leave my biochem PhD. Its a tough system to exist in. An original "work for exposure" and "arbitrarily made middleman".
@@fact4fiction35 To get your papers into prestigious journals, you need to make contacts. Your chances of getting your paper published have nothing to do with the quality of the paper and all to do with how much you positively interacted with the board and stuff of the journal. It's a circle-jerk and a nepotistic arrangement. An article published in some topmost journals make you likely to get recruited for some big money government research projects afterwards. It is all about relations and who you know. Most people stop writing papers or doing research and start doing admin stuff to collect those nepotism points.
long live sci-hub. I have 100% no remorse in pirating any academic paper
Yay 💃
This is the way
Sigma detected.
Share some tricks iam waiting
As brought out in other comments: just contact the Authors direct, not only will they happily send you the articles but they'd also be able to answer questions for you (it also does them good to be cited in your paper).
The worst thing is the amounts they charge normal people to access papers make it inaccessible for most. Only companies and universities can afford to access it but they don’t even have to pay anyone for the work they are selling to others
tbf, most of the papers ever published can be found on google scholar and libgen
Use scihub
It is a club and normal people are not in it
@@HoloDaWisewolf nope. Just two days ago I accessed papers for psychology students doing year 12 course work that are not available free to access. One benefit of my exorbitant university fees that will leave me in debt for the next 10 years of my miserable life.
I still will never understand how they get away with this
Oh it's easy. Like so many other things wrong with the world, social inertia.
Or maybe it would be more accurate? to compare it to a false vacuum. The only way to get out is to quantum tunnel through or something gives it a real big energetic kick in the pants to get it over the hill.
Or maybe you were just asking a rhetorical question.
Drs. Egos... not Ego$
because doctors are a docile bunch that are too busy working to stir trouble, imagine if doctors ever go on strike
@@SimpleReally This problem isn't just in medicine. It affects all fields.
@@SimpleReally hmmm I wonder who else would ensure the drugs u consume are not actually fatal
I was told I couldn't continue in a nursing management job after a new group bought our hospital because my advanced degree is in Journalism not Nursing. I asked what they thought I would gain by going back to school after being a nurse for 20 years. They said I would learn advanced leadership, mind you, I had been doing this job quite successfully for 7 years. They also told me I would learn how to write and get published. I looked them straight in the eyes and said, that would be helpful because we had so little of that in JOURNALISM!!!
Wow, what a bunch of horseshit. I hope you've found a place that has respect and use for your skills and experience. You know, a place that values that you can actually do the job and do it well over the titles in your resume. 🙄
People. Are. Insane.
It may have been more justified in the past when journals actually had to “publish papers” on real physical papers and send them out globally. But when everything is online, “publication costs” (i.e. printing and shipping costs) are so much less. Imagine these days, exponential growth in journal articles; inversely proportional physical print publication costs due to digitalization. 🤨
Yet, some online only journals still charge you more for colored figures than black and white
Most of the prestigious, longatanding journals (as well as some of the younger but well recognized ones) still do print publishing of their journals. There's still many people who prefer to hold onto a physical paper to study. Not to mention many folks who keep up with journals may take them to work and read in the short times during the day that they may have
In the humanities, there's an additional concern that "prestige" of a journal is mostly arbitrary because the subdisciplines are so diverse. New and exciting research is mostly published in newly made journals but they don't count much for that reason.
There's something funny about humanities questionning the prestige of the journals publishing their papers.
@@HoloDaWisewolfcan you elaborate?
@Tomato Trees Sound studies journal is one example. A lot of researchers from multiple disciplines (literature, philosophy, acoustics, music, etc.) contribute to it. It's a general trend that humanities are increasingly collaborating with other fields like the sound studies journal. A famous german media theorist that was trained in history actual taught computer science course in his later years!
@@hosung6936 I was just being a bit mean toward humanities. Nothing too serious or worth developing.
@@HoloDaWisewolf you could've stopped after "there's something funny about humanities"
The entire system is a scam 😂😭 This is why everyone should pirate the papers, to be honest. The actual writers get absolutely nothing even if you pay, and it all goes to the company who reap the benefits of the writers/researchers' hard work... Academia really does need a change. If it's really not about the money, why are they charging people to view the journal/articles while at the same time not giving a single dime to the people who actually did the research and wrote it? 😔 Both sides lose and only the publishing companies benefit.
Don't pirate it, but literally email the writer lol. They'll give you a free copy and if you're doing your own research sometimes they can even find time to call you!
I did my thesis like that lol
@Shubham Dutt This should be some kind of secret people should learn in College/at Uni. But yeah, I did that too: emailed PhD's when I needed something restricted. They were happy to send me their whole dissertation and answer questions, if I had any.
@Shubham Dutt @Анка
Ah, it never occurred to me to email them directly! I hesitate to do that because of irrational fears that I may be bothering them, but I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
@@preciousdishwasher and did they all answer? I wanted to do that for an essay I have to write, but since I'm an undergraduate student I felt it would be too preposterous of me to message them
I can't remember anyone ever saying no. Even when my sole basis was 'sounds interesting' with no other purpose.
Another problem is, the lecturer have to publish their research in prestigious journal, so they can get a promotion or salary raise (at least in some country)
Just here to up this, since a bot stole your comment.
(also yes, and even to get a specialty in some countries they often look at whether you have published something and how often)
Former resident and current fellow at Columbia university, I have 1 publication as a resident and I can say that the entirety of the research I did was independent of my attending. My attending did absolutely no planning, had no idea what the goal of the research was and didn't have a clue as to how the progress of the project was going. Yet, she has over dozens of publications from using overzealous residents and fellows like myself. Due to this experience, I refused to do any research after that project.
The attendings of big academic institutions often use research to get paid more but, more importantly, at these higher institutions, at least at Columbia, raises are purely based on how good you are at brown nosing. Also being Caucasian also helps. The combination of being white and being the ultimate brown noser will instantly earn you a department head title. Pretty sure this is true elsewhere. I just hope private practice isnt as bad as here.
@@Black.Spades Thank you for informed me that my comments have been stolen :)
Yes, that's true. And some case, publishing several journal (but not always in prestigious one) became a mandatory to graduate and get a degree.
@@kiwibuddy @kiwibuddy Sadly, that happen almost in every field. I work as a laboratory analysis. Often helping residents, other students, or even a lecturer to collect data, analyse, or interpreting the result.
When their journal were published, sometimes another name was included in that research, and i knew very well that certain name didn't involve in any research process but still wanted his/her name to be included because they need it as a "prove" that they worked properly.
Btw, I'm non english speaker, "brown nose" is new idiom for me. Thank you for expanding my vocabulary :)
@@asrafelicia Hopefully they included you as a contributor. Just for your info, when these guys have their noses so far up the recipients anus it becomes chocolate dipped; hence, brown nosing. Some my attendings are probably better brown nosers than they are clinicians.
As a medical librarian who has to deal with how to pay for access, not even a physical copy, of these journals I feel this. Around me Elsevier has been known as Those Greedy Bastards for 2 decades.
The cracked voice at the end nearly killed me. 🤣
this really weirded me out when I first heard about it. Now I am studying biomedical sciences and everyone is acting like this is the most normal thing ever. I really don't get it. Also, this is the exact reason why you can just mail the researcher for their paper if it is behind a paywall etc. They'll often be very glad to send it to you.
Have you ever gone to subscribe to an academic journal only to find out that the subscription rates are eye popping? I always thought it was because they're having to pay for research, but I guess not.
Idek what that money is used for at all
@@PhoenixRoseYT just look at their staff salaries. A few days ago, I googled the salaries of NEJM staff and it blew my mind. It'a a rip-off for researchers and readers alike.
@@PhoenixRoseYTbonuses, employees, hosting, drm, copyright lawyers, billing, executive bonuses.
* *Sitting at the university in the office watching this video, as I await the grant proposal answers, crying* *
As someone from a working class family who went into acadamia I've had so many of these conversations! Excellent point! 10+ yrs of debt and education & we are actually shamed if we mention $
Wait till he hears that you actually have to pay to get published in many journals and then people who want to read your paper get to pay outrageous fees 🤦 I work in academia and it's just bonkers. Guys if you find article you are interested but don't want to pay journal for it e mail us we will send it to you for free.
Crazy, plus the peer reviewers are all volunteers. Some journals charge authors to publish
This is exactly the same conversation I had with my father who is a math professor and publishes papers in prestigious journals lol
Aaron Shwartz tried to expose these publishing companies but look what happened.He was a legend
@UC80UFtr1ON6fynzIPje_AqQ wow,didnt know about her,Thanks will research more.
I like these videos where you shed light on the things that really do need to be changed in a joking way.
Same with drug companies. Undergrads and research students / interns could develop a new, effective treatment but the company gets all the rights. The one who figured it out doesn't even get the prestige. But lots of those research facilities are payed for with government money. Me being T1D it appalls me what has happened to insulin. Banting sold it over to the Toronto University for $1.
That's why you offer to tailor your research findings for whichever organization will pay you.
I don't know how this is even legal. They publish your paper and the readers/researchers pay them to access it. Whoever thought that and convinced people that it's totally fair is a fucking genius.
Well when actual paper printing was common, it was probably a good way of getting actual research out to those that needed it.
But most stuff is online now.
Its a case of, old tradition gaining power and influence, but is utterly pointless.
How about governmental agencies assigning public funds based on the metrics from that publishing sustem.
"Exposure" the standard answer to what you get for any free creative work :D
Writing my first paper as a PhD student currently and boy does this strike a nerve.
Condolences from a fellow final-year student.
Aaaaand this is why as a hospitalist I still don’t care about publishing. 🤦♂️
Don't forget the part where you have to first get those prestigious publications in order to convince the government that you and your research are worth finding.. Oh and that it can take well over a year for a manuscript to make it through the pier review process at those journals (or to sit under review for months only to get rejected). So fulfilling 😁
Then if in Australia suddenly have some dickhead minister rip away your funding because the research isn't in the national interest.
Told a normal person outside academia I was excited my pre print paper was already getting cited so much and they asked me if that was not a bad thing. They thought it was like a parking citation a bad thing not a good thing for publications.
So, if journals were social media users, we could all expect to get DMs like: "Hey Boss Babe, saw that you're working up a new de novo synthesis of dimethylchickenwire! Would love to do a collab! Give me your research, and I'll sell it from my web store, you won't see a cent but you'll get SO much exposure!"
And that's just the 'respectable' journals, before we even get onto the ones that are actually identified as 'predatory'.
I just published my research too! Now, if you'll excuse me - I have to go cry myself to sleep again
"We'll pay you with experience!"
"We'll pay you with exposure!"
"We'll pay you with prestige!"
That's why I've never accepted an unpaid internship. Load of BS.
I just published three articles and I am paying them like a champ
Well done.
Thanks for doing this.
I tend to rant about this subjects…
What’s here is better (funnier).
Still I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Ugh. SO SO True. Also don’t forget about your colleagues who want to be named on your paper, or your boss who takes the supervising Author credit who never lifted a fat finger to do anything to help.
So true!!!
I never submit work to journals. Give a talk at a meeting and present your research. I mean, you still have to pay to go to the meeting, usually, but they almost always have free danishes. You can stuff a lot of those bad boys into an XL Kirkland brand dress shirt.
The glistening in the eyes!! Oof! It's too real
Academic Journals are the corporate equivalent of a social media "influencer" asking for free stuff because it will promote the brand.
No, that makes them look much more innocent. Its more like modelling agencies that make you pay them for a portfolio shoot only to get gigs that dont pay.
I had this conversation over and over with professors until one of them finally just told me “it’s a scam, but there’s not really a way out of it, although some people are trying to find one” she answered the question I didn’t know I had instead of the one I asked.
So people in academia also get 'for exposure'd?
yes! i tought he was going to say this! is basically the same system, but YOU sometimes have to pay THEM!
@@wolfpytlak2786 it's even more stupid 🤦🏻♀️ and like he said in the video, the journal gets visits/hits/downloads and recognition through the works they publish!!
Prestige goes both ways i would say
I've heard it said publish or lose you job. Many academics have a requirement to publish. It's scary to think that is your reward.
I was doing my PhD thesis and this was one of the things that demotivated greatly. Also, it doesn’t get you that much of a prestige, aside from a tap on the back from your peers
Yeah it’s respectable but only a select few in your specific field may care 🤣
@@mcslammer4989 Exactly!
“I get something more valuable instead.”
“Oh what?”
*”H-Index baby”*
Me: Bragging rights?
Doc: Prestige.
Oh well, that sounds much nicer.
I don't know why you're complaining, someone's got to pay off the yachts and golf fields of these company leaders. Where are they supposed to get the money for that?
This is so relatable 🤣🤣🤣
The “smiling but on the verge of tears” face is superb.
As the Joker said, it's not about money... it's about sending ...a message
This one went too far. There are academics bawling around the world after watching this truth bomb.
Wait until he realises that people have to pay money just to read the paper... and none of that money goes to author!
It‘s so funny: i like your videos before i even watch them. You have something i can‘t quite pinpoint, i just star to giggle when i see you‘ve uploaded a video. I think it‘s your facial expressions. They crack me up more than anything else on youtube. Keep on sir, you‘re doing amazing sweetie 😂🤷🏻♀️
You are absolutely right, I’m still saving to publish my research :(
Also, publishing in the so-called peer-reviewed prestige publisher, there is this thing called "article processing fee" which ranges from couple hundreds to several thousands of US$ (for open access, faster reviewing process, and better chance to get their article accepted)..
And some ppl just have to publish in them to keep their job or as the program's mandatory requirement for its "accreditation" which got renewed every several years. If you don't publish enough, "accreditation" will go down. Oh well...
Poor Dr G was crying!
I'm not in medicine but I can relate to this one
Any article whose content was funded by the government (in part or in whole) should be available for free to the general public. Or at the very least it should become freely accessible after a short period of time.
Research in CERN is freely available to the public, but that's Europe for you. (Edit: Yes, last bit is said with Irony).
I've seen that vid around in pretty much every academic circle I'm in so you certainly hit the spot. Literally scoring millions of views on Twitter.
Yet ironically enough your credit was often nowhere to be seen. Your most spot on video about academic publishing also helped showcase a textbook case of plagiarism.
Doctors, scientists, and other researchers should start their own researcher owned publications.
That has happened in other countries.
The realization growing from each Q&A is everything.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
WHY CAN'T WE HAVE BOTH???????
this one hits a little too close to home man. Back to slaving away trying to get my research published 🤦🏽♂️
I feel this so hard... happened when I first told non-medical people when I published/got invited to conferences. It was eye opening... I started thinking that perhaps this is why pubs help bump up the pay so much when moving in academic rank (professorship). System is built weird.
We also have to fork our own expenses to present in a conference!!! Maybe we should choose a conference held in a nice hotel, at least those provided buffet lunch might seemed worth the fees 😂 😂 😂
@@ShasaKawaII Yes! Too true!
The American healthcare system is like Homelander: constantly tells you that you are the hero, gives you meaningless pats on the back, then turns around and laser beams you with long hours, low pay, poor working conditions, and systemic burnout
Now, imagine that you are a university professor and one of your main performance indicator is how many paper you published that year and how many citation you received and if you don't cut it, you can lose your job and funding.
Omg. Too real. Plus trying to find paid work as a phd in your research field is next to impossible for many in the humanities. 🥳😭
Yep, it's not about the money. That's why our annual postdoc salary at an NYC college isn't even enough to qualify for the university postdoc housing if we'd apply open market rules (40x rent).
I didn’t realize that academic journals paid doctors in exposure like Instagram influencers
Im surprised you didn't mention the fact YOU have to pay to read the thing later.
I published a book chapter and couldn't read it cuz the paywall was 800 dollars, you had to buy the entire book
Had my first paper published and couldn’t even afford to buy the print copy of it. 😂 It is open access though.
I’ve published in conference proceedings before…. The thought of pay never entered my mind lol. We had to pay them for the conference tickets. To present our paper. Which they published.
Glad I chose to be a mechanic. At least I know I I will be taken advantage of, and I don't have a triple digit overhead, lol!
Some kajillionaire should start a few academic journals that actually pay authors and reviewers. They could still make bank, just a bit less than Elsevier. It’s a less-greed arbitrage waiting to happen.
I don't trust billionaires to run a academic journal, they would never accept to publish a research that says anything bad about theirs business
Never trust businessmen to be the locomotives of social change. All they ever care about is profits. Most of the time, they simply disguise themselves in the mantle of caring about the academia/environment/equality/save the whales, to get an extra buck from the gullible upper class slacktivists.
@@TheOvelha1998 Hmmm,maybe academics should start a cooperative. The seed money has to come from somewhere.
I do it for.....Medicine and the Betterment of Mankind ..... I miss the 60s lol
hey Will, could you please do more videos on Cardiothoracic Surgeons, big fan and have watched all your videos
So when are these flaws going to be tackled exactly? And who is going to do ot?
This is why in undergrad I would email the authors of papers for a copy so I didn’t have to pay to view them
Yeah . . . this and looking further into this matter just makes me very sick to my stomach.
Except physicians almost never have any grant funding
You forget to mention all the money you have to pay to get your paper published in one of those journals😭😭
If journals paid for your academia papers, there is the potential for conflict of interest = one of the main reasons you don't get paid is to reduce publication bias and skewed data sets
They publish it for free? You don't have to pay them? That's actually a steal 😂
That's brutal.
Sooo it’s the taxpayers funding the research?
Wait wait...Isn't this just the same as paying artist for exposure?
What the hell
This is just "I'll pay you in exposure"
What a scam
Fun times watching this as am starting my first ever research project in med school...
I am actually paying now to do research (school moneys)
We should all just literally stop working with the publishers. Scientists stop accepting to be editors and scientists stop submitting papers to them. They will go bankrupt overnight
"Prestige"
That sounds like exposure with extra steps
"Will that be cash, check, or prestige, Sir?"
I actually didn't know this.
Meanwhile he's earning money on youtube! Genius!
i've read today while the journal charges you an arm and a leg to read papers published in it, you can instead simply email the scientist directly and get the paper for free
Yep if you can't find it free online somewhere, just email the author. Most will be happy to send you the paper. If you pay the fee it goes to the publisher, the author gets nothing.
Meanwhile, the publishing execs are sitting around a giant mahogany table, drinking expensive single malt scotch and laughing at your expense.
Never work for free. Trust me, there's always room in the budget. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
-Former Nonprofit Indentured Servant
They don't even pay for peer reviews most of the time, resulting in reviews that can go from "seems good I think" to "you should be ashamed of this paper, quit medicine you moron"
Thanks Robert Maxwell