Do all 12-bit samplers sound the same?
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2021
- 12-bit samplers. 5 of them. From the 80s. Each with different sampling frequencies, sampling time and artifacts. One video - a logistics nightmare! Even at this very non-scientific level.
I've tried to keep the volume levels pretty much the same throughout, so no one will be fooled by level differences and think one sampler is "better". I've also kept all samples in mono, even though the TX16W can sample in stereo.
No effects or compression is being used so it's all bone dry out of the samplers.
How much the UA-cam compression algorithm destroys this I don't know, but I hope that the differences can be heard to some degree. Believe, they all sound different.
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Full length videos about all of these samplers can be found on my channel here. The Roland S-330 and S-550 is the same, only memory sets them apart.
The song I play at the end using only the Roland S-10 (my fav 12-bit sampler of them all) is called "Ocean Drive" and can be found here:
espenkraft.bandcamp.com/track...
Sampler specs:
Akai S612 can sample in frequencies between 32 Khz and 4 Khz by pressing a MIDI key (midi number) between C5 and C2 before sampling. The main frequencies are C5=32 Khz, C4=16 Khz, C3=8 Khz and C2=4 Khz.
Roland S-330 can sample at 15 and 30 Khz
Yamaha TX16W can sample at 50, 33, 25 and 16 Khz in mono, and at 33 Khz in stereo
Sequential Prophet 2000 can sample at 42, 31 and 16 Khz
Korg DSS-1 can sample at 48, 36, 24 and 16 Khz.
The sample time will vary greatly depending on the sampling frequency, so check the manuals for each of these samplers for that.
Apart from the S-330 all the other samplers uses a variable sample rate conversion for transposing the sounds when playing. That means the sampler needs to have its own DAC (digital to analog converter) for each of the voices. The S-330 uses interpolation. This means that it uses only one DAC, but it needs a fast processor to handle all the voices when you play polyphonically. That technique imposes its own set of sound artifacts, which is why I love that sound in particular.
No one of these samplers are "better" or "worse", no such thing exists. We can love one over another for different reasons, but there is no such thing as Ford being better than GM or Toyota being better than Subaru. It's all good. ;-)
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Growing up I listened to so much synth-pop and it's only natural that my own music takes inspiration from many of the acts I loved back then. I still love them and listen to them!
Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Erasure, Thompson Twins, Tears for Fears, The Human League, Propaganda. FGTH, Ultravox, OMD, Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Giorgio Moroder, Jean Michel Jarre, Jan Hammer, Alphaville, A-ha as well as loads of artists doing what is now called Italo Disco. And many more great acts like Nik Kershaw, Spandau Ballet, Wham, Dire Straits ++
"I was there in 1983, 1984... when I started to hear those new types of sounds"
Seems like a lost line from an LCD Soundsystem song :)
"My name is Espen Kraft, but everybody calls me The Eighties"
True story man samplers were insane in the 80s. I was SO EXCITED to be able to play back recorded audio on my TRS-80 color computer at various pitches.
Was there a DAC cart on the TRS-80?
@@timothydahlin5321 yeah explain yourself 🤨
Evidently there were expansion interfaces for the TRS-80 and software like Orchestra 80 was available, but with only 48kB of RAM available, you were limited to *very* short samples. Similar technology was available for the 48k ZX Spectrum in Britain (also based on the Z80 chip). Cheetah made interfaces and introduced the Specdrum and Sound Sampler, but they were essentially useless as musical instruments, as there was no MIDI capability. Effectively all you could do was play back a short 17kHz sample by pressing one of the Spectrum's rubber keys, but there was no sequencing. It was more akin to a digital tape recorder; a demonstration of digital recording technology, rather than being actually useful.
Being a teenager in '83 was so exciting, with all the rapidly evolving technology. The only problem was that we didn't have the earnings to buy those higher end samplers. I went for a MKS-100 which was on drastic discount sale, but I loved it and kept it ever synth.
Those "imperfect" sounds from these old samplers are realy valuable today.
I've an S1100, (16bit) which can produce relatively "hi quality" sounds and an EPSm (13bits) and I found myself using more the EPS than the S1100. For "hi quality" sounds I've everything I need in my DAW and I don't realy need a perfect sampler.
Even if we have bit crushing plugins in our DAWs, they don't realy sounds the same as the real thing from the old thing.
I've made the test: same sound, one from the EPS, one from the DAW thru a bit crusher, same sampling rate, no filter, same bit depth=not exactly the same sound; especialy when you down pitch, I think the DACs have their own sounds and the down pitching algorithm is different.
I've made the test by hears but one of this days, if I've some spare time, I'll do a null test, just to see where & when it's different.
Cheers! :D
@ＦＬ Ｈ３ I think the main reason why bitcrushers will never sound the same as these old samplers is because bitcrushers just lay a static setting over top of the sound instead of actually sampling it. But even if you sampled a bitcrushed sound, it still wouldn't sound the same because that sound is mostly due to the behavior of the converters in the sampler. Unless someone figures out a way to emulate the less predictable behavior of old ADCs and DACs, bitcrushers will never be able to sound convincing enough.
The only plugin I've ever heard that came close to the old sampler sound is Cyclone by Sonic Charge, which is an emulation of the Yamaha TX16W. Since it's an actual sampler instead of an effect, it gets way closer than any bitcrusher ever will. It was even made by the guy who made the Typhoon OS for the TX16W.
Wow Zoolook in the background. Probably the best synth record ever made along with Oxygene. Imho best example of sampling done right.
Cheers! :D
CMI Fairlight & Emulator EMU were used ❤
@@nicolaskavvadias8488 Yeah, expensive at the time.
There was a tv program in the uk called tomorrow’s world that showed all the latest innovations in technology, and I can still remember how it blew my mind when they demoed the first Fairlight sampler on the show. I could only afford a sk1 back in the 80s.
Was that when they recorded someone tapping a wine glass then a kid played the sample up and down the keyboard as a complete song? Loved that and I got an SK1 for Christmas 😂 then I got an SK200 a few years later. I still have them 😀
Your jam @ 21:13 brought me back to my favorite era of Pop Music, the EIGHTIES! I am now in my late 60s so at that time I was in my early to mid 30s. Music was so fun-sounding at that time. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.
Thanks! You should feel very alive on this channel then as 80s music is what I do. ;-) Cheers
Another excellent video showing the flexibility of such old sampler ! thank you !
I was senior engineer at Roland UK in 1988! I have owned an S10, W30 and S50 - I kept the S50 and put a floppy emulator on it
What went wrong after the 80s?
@@rachelar D to A converters became too clean and digital sounding, which is neither warm or natural (this applies to all audio electronics). This is why my CD player is a Philips CD-104 which has a 14 bit DAC inside (Sound wise, it will blow anything else away!)
@@delatronics3257 what are your thoughts on the Roland MV8000 and 8800?
I left Roland in 1997 so these are after my time, I also never had one for repair as Delatronics authorised service centre in the UK and Brazil. Likely to be reliable and great sounding though.
Yep!💕🎵☔️
As usual, thank you for another informative and entertaining video. And thanks for recommendation of the samplers magazine; I just bought it after seeing it here!
Cheers! :D
Love the sound of Roland's #S50 #S550 series. Video out and mouse make it "fun" to work. Cool video, Thanks!
Cheers! :D
Thanks for this. This is actually the only demonstration online it seems that demonstrates the aliasing of the DSS1 when pitched down on lowest settings. Cheers.
Many thanks!
I still own a S10 too. i've made very cool techno track with it at the time. ( late 80's ) . I used it with a Kawai Q80 séquencer and a Tascam 424 4 track K7... Is tiny memory forces me to be very creative ! Less is more sometime ^^
Thanks for this nice comparison, the 12 bit era is a special part of the 'Sampling-Universe' ;) Also I like that you took 2 examples for that on each model, including rhythmical behaviour!
Cheers! :D
Few hours hanging out with Espen in his home studio would be pure gold
Gold Jerry! Gold!. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Thumbs up for the Seinfeld reference
Very interesting video, presented in the marvellous Espen way!
Cheers Damon! :D
ESPEN KRAFT, Voce é Fera nos SAMPLERS. Muito bom mesmo.
Cheers! :D
Well for this shoot out I had to put on my rifle rated body armor!!!! You are the 80's! As always take care and be safe!! Love you my brother from another mother!
Cheers Rick! :D
That was fun ! :-)
Cool that you have the prophet sampler.
The guys from Japan used that thing. (Richard Barbieri & David Sylvian)
.
I still got an Akai X7000 in the house.
Love the looks of that thing.
There is a Mirage 2 blocks from my house with
my name on it :-) / Love sampling.
.
Thumbs up.
Cheers! :D
Thanks Espen. The S-10 sounds beautiful and I was quite impressed with Prophet 2000 too. You are the 80s...a time machine transporting me back to my youth. Ocean Drive (nice track btw) has given me the urge to listen to the Pet Shop Boys Two Divided By Zero.
Cheers! :D
"Lets install floppy disk emulators into all the 12-bit samplers in my studio including a few borrowed from friends of the channel."
Exactly 😀
And remember "don't copy that floppy"!
I remember how exciting analog synth sounds were and when sampling came in that was mind blowing to kids in the 80s!
It was weird for me too because the sampling revolution started here in my home town, Sydney Australia with Fairlight samplers!
We were not used to being the centre of anything back in those days.
Unfortunately Fairlight did not survive the 80s, but either did Moog, Sequential or Oberheim (although thankfully they have been reborn so to speak!).
Thanks a lot Mr. Kraft! 18:30: Cyber People - Polaris (1983), beautiful Spacesynth 👍🙏🎹🎵🎼
Cheers!
Love the samplers as well I have 2X DS824 Gemini no pc needed and 19 Gemini mixer still works peace
6:31 reminds me a bit of the start of Little Red Corvette. Love that low-fi!!
The S330 was my first sampler YEARS ago. Saw a guy advertising he had one in a local trade. I called and picked it up immediately. It's one of few pieces I regret getting rid of. I traded it in when I got my Alesis Quadrasynth and MPC2000.
I played the first EMU in UK.
Amazing video. I have a P2000, and I don't bother recording anything into it on my own, Prophet 2012 (the editor program) makes it trivial. I just inherited a S-550, and I wish I had the same functionality. Y'all were patient in the 80s
Definitely agree the early Roland samplers had a good sound, and the screen made a lot of difference. My first sampler was the TX16W, which I will also have a soft spot for the sound of. I did have access to the Korg DSS for a few weeks in the 80's, but didn't really get into the sampling aspects as the project called for a piano sound and those were still fairly limited options at the time.
Hola Espen que buen video hiciste. Súper entretenido. Saludos
Cheers! :D
Nice Galaga T's. I missed those days at the arcades in early 80's.
Cheers! :D
I bought an S10 after watching your video on it, so thanks! 😁
Excellent, congrats! :D
I had a good Ensoniq EPS 16 Sampler. It had so many good drumsounds samples + a lot of analog synth samples. Also all kind of weird sound that i did myself. I did used that hardware sampler a lot of my records i did release. It had a great sequencer and 16 tracks. It was so great. It became almost my main istrument for composing and recording and performing.
But one day it dit not function well and it got worse and worse. Untill at the end it was useles and totally malfunction. I wanted to trhough it out but someone offered me 1000 danish crona for buying it and I accepted. He told me that he would fix it for himself and he was looking as a very happy man, when he took the sampler with him.
The winner must be the Korg DSS-1 because thats the only one I have in this test ;)
Me too. I'm debating on getting a floppy emulator. I'm the original owner and the drive still works - plus I have a new replacement... but still. I also have a non-working DSS-1 with the ram upgrade and SCSI, but alas, the lights come on but nobody's home.
Have you found editors for the dss?
I replaced the floppy myself. No soldering. Just open the beast and put it in. Real simple and so worth it. All the factory sounds is on the internets
@@tobiasjeansson Yeah I have a bunch of sounds and I've created a bunch. I haven't used it much lately but plan finding a place for it in a new studio environment. The only editor I know of is the old SampleVision by Turtle Beach. It appears to still run on Windows 10 but I haven't tried editing with it yet. I know it will be extremely slow with sample transfer over MIDI.
@@Garflips I have developed my own editor which I will eventually release for free during the year. Works fine so far: modernretro.epizy.com/korg-dss1-program-parameter.html
Zoolook in the background - nice! Maybe THE Fairlight album.
Cheers! :D
The yamaha had a nice almost analog style grit to it! Not sure if it was sampled hot or if it just sounds like that. The korg had a nice digital aliasing quality!
The Emulator had an impressive collection of sounds made for it, and I'm sure those other choices were good. But I choose buying an Amiga 1000 computer in 1985 to tap into the most advanced personal computer's DSP audio chip at the time, and gain a state of the art computer for years to come, for a very reasonable price. I did my MIDI sampling on the Amiga, collected a large collection of "IFF" Amiga samples that could be used in any Amiga MIDI program, and ran my Ensoniq Mirage emulator which I purchased 30 Mirage disks for.
All Amiga's, including the original 1985 Amiga 1000 model, though designed for 8 bit sampling, were actually capable of 14 bit sampling if you upgraded to a 68020 processor, or bought a later Amiga that came with one or higher. 68020 upgrades were available for the original Amiga starting in 1986.
There is a great online article all about the Amiga's 14 bit audio I suggest you take a look at, and anyone that's interested. I know about this in the 80s.
Do a Google or Yahoo search with the key words "we reveal amiga's 14 bit audio" for a great article about this. No other personal computer this far back even came close to the ability to mimic the abilities of hardware samplers.
The Amiga had great qualities, no doubt about that. Unfortunately for it, it lost the battle to the Atari ST in the pro studio world. No studio I ever worked in had any Amiga, but it was always an Atari ST there, and a stack of Akai samplers. ;-)
@@EspenKraft That's because of one simple reason. By the time studios were buying Atari ST's, it wasn't until the 90s or the end of 1989 when Cubase came out. Higher quality 16 bit samplers were widely in use by then, so for them to consider what was advertised an a built-in 8 bit sampler on the Amiga was of less use to a large studio. Lesser known since it was not advertised, was it could actually do 14 bit sampling if you used software that supported it (not so widely in use).
By the 90s, both the Amiga & the Atari ST were on their death beds. It was the 5 years before that of these platforms where it really mattered. By the 90s, the PC won the war by a mile, and the Mac was the 2nd biggest platform. To the masses, it was sort of crazy to buy either an Amiga or ST by the 90s.
But imagine having these sampler & soft synth abilities.......way back in 1995!
I took notice, and could see the great value of having a state of the art personal computer that could do the same kind of thing as the Ensoniq Mirage which was new on the market, the first budget sampler (priced similar to the Amiga 1000), so why not just buy the computer, enjoy the very best video games available for any home system, top of the line general purpose computer, and this great built-in sampling & synthesizer ability? Really, I still do the same kind of things I did on my Amiga in the mid 80s today, but on a PC now. And those things......were not possible on the Atari ST.
The Atari ST with Pro-24 was something a lot of studios were using, all the way back in 1986 and the Atari ST was the preferred computer of choice in the studios for the sequencer and patch-editors at the time. That the Amiga could do sampling and other stuff didn't change the fact that studio owners and producers saw it as a toy, a souped up C64. Unfair yes, but this is how it was. The Amiga bombed every time as a serious studio tool. It simply wasn't regarded as such. Not even by me, and I was a big C64 user already. I too went the Atari ST route. ;-)
@@EspenKraft I seemed to recall the Dr T's software was one of the first popular sequencing packages around that time, and available on both platforms.
It may be true large music studios weren't using the Amiga for MIDI (their loss), but wasn't it true most studios just used tape at the time in the mid 80s? Certainly for what I do...rock bands, MIDI sequencing wasn't a huge thing. Those bands I love, and was influenced by basically did the same thing they do live in the studio. Actually playing all the tracks heard, or most of them. My attitude was....let the recording engineers be the recording experts. I want to play my synthesizers. But with the Amiga, I also like that it could "be my instrument". That some how felt....like a personal touch connecting me with it. Technically speaking, the Amiga had equally as strong of MIDI abilities.
TV stations and video production houses turned to the only personal computer that could replace expensive dedicated computers that had cost many tens of thousands of dollars. MIDI sequencing could have been done equally as well on either platform, but the Amiga had that amazing (for mid 80s) sound chip equal to synthesizers/samplers. In the 80s & beginning of the 90s, I worked in television.
"producers saw it as a toy, a souped up C64" Funny you say that. I'm sure you know the history of these two computers? In fact, it's the ST that actually is the souped up C-64. The Amiga has nothing in common with the C-64. The primary people responsible for developing the C-64 and marking it, Commodore's founder and key engineers left Commodore to develop the Atari ST. Ironically, the Amiga's development team were key people from the old Atari. These two companies almost did a flip flop. As an Apple user, it was the C-64 thought of as a toy. I switched from my Apple to the state of the art Amiga. I had a C-64 "as a toy", and I had it for exactly that reason.. With an Amiga, like the Apple, you could do a lot of serious things with the Amiga. The "only" reason the ST was developed was because the people that brought you the Atari ST, could not get their hands on the upcoming Amiga technology. which was being developed for 4 years prior by a large team. They tried to obtain that amazing technology, and failed. The result was, making a cheap knock off of it, which ended up being the Atari ST. A "cheap" knock off of the Amiga. It sold for half the price originally. Many people had already learned from how those same people that brought you C-64, you couldn't trust them. They built their stuff out of the absolute cheapest parts, and they did not care about their users or dealers. In fact, the man most responsible for bringing you the C-64 & Atari ST, was not a computer user himself!
In the end, I believe the Amiga total user base far exceeded the total user base of the Atari ST users, despite the ST's lower cost. Companies like Steinberg were just plain stupid in choosing their platform. In the end, they probably could have sold a lot more copies with a larger user base. The Apple ][ did not become #1 in the early 80s because it was the cheapest platform, but being cheap was 100% the strategy of the C-64 & Atari ST. The Amiga was the first computer in years designed to be.....state of the art.....in every way...Since the Amiga.....no major new computer platform has attempted to be that ever again. Advancements have been incremental every since, latching on to need to be compatible with something before it.
@@n8goulet I come from a commercial pop "chart" world, and radio/tv commercials world as well, where sequencing was a big deal. The inbuilt MIDI interface and MIDI OS integration helped the ST too, less clutter and it just worked. No matter how big Amiga fanboy one can be or no matter how sore and bitter one might feel, the Amiga did loose to the ST in the pro audio world at the time. That's a fact. It did rise to a solid workhorse in tv/video studios in the years to come, I myself worked on a Amiga 2000 for a couple of years myself, as a video editing platform, genlock and all that. I do know what I'm talking about as well.
the TX16 is a painful editing machine but what a sound. will never get rid of mine ;-)
Very nice collection. There is a 16 bit sampler that hit drums just as if not more hard as the Akai s900/950, the Dynacord ADS/ADD-two. Strong stuff. They are getting quite old so if you get one, it’s good idea to recap it, and reseat and contact clean the chips.
How do you like it versus the ADD-one?
And now to get Fairlight, ideally series 3 :-D
No chance for that I'm sorry to say. ;-)
I'd still go with the Prophet 2000 or the Emax 1. Roland isn't bad but I'm modding my S550 to be more 12-Bit the way I want it to sound.
I also found out how to spread random samples across the keyboard (even if my S550 is a module rack) I've me MIDI Controller to aide that sampler no problem :D
I can watch these forever man. These videos are so good and informal on these samplers.
Now it's time to find a Fairlight IIx and check out how awesome 8-bits sounds! Especially when pitching downward a couple octaves.
Never seen one for sale here in Norway and I wouldn't want to buy one for the prices they go for either so I'll probably will never be able to feature one on this channel.
That drum loop is reminiscent of the one on Sinitta's "So Macho". It certainly has that mid- to late-eighties Stock, Aitken, and Waterman feel to it.
Got to say the drum sample probably sounded best through the s330. In my humble opinion, the brass sounded best through the akai s612. Also, that brass sounds quite similar to the brass sound used on Don't Go by Yazoo. All of these samplers sound best with different samples and all sound very different, which is what I love.
I like the screen display of the s330.
I'm surprised how exciting the TX16W sounded! :O When watching again I'm not sure this could be due to the sampled signal being the hottest? The Snare seems a little distorted and therefore sounding more aggressive?
With the P2000 I think you left the standard Amp Envelope in, Espen, which isnt at full sustain and gives it a very attack accentuated sound. Which is good for one hits but not the best for comparing drumloops. You can hear the very accentuated ring in the attack phase while pitching down.
The DSS1 has a bit depth reduction function also. You can go from 12 to 8 bit. Although I never heard a significant difference with that.
Thank you for a great video, as always, Espen.
The input level did vary among the different samplers. Like I say in the video description, it is nearly impossible to make such a comparisons video consistent throughout.
I'm well aware of the release time of the Amp envelope in the P2000, but I didn't bother going into that. I don't think it matters for this video. Cheers! :D
Memory Lane :-) I miss my old Roland S-10 . ., a little bit at least, being an idiot at the time I sold the S-10 t and a TR-909 !!! (the 909 for kr 2500),- and got a Korg M1. . . :-( thanks for a good video, again Mr. Kraft, good KraftWork !
Cheers! :D
909 for a Kurzweil K2500? You made out big time in my opinion.
Excellent, cheers!
Thanks!
S612 is the rocking one! :-)
The brass chords just seem more musical, despite being less "clear" than the others 😌
Thx for the vid. Prophet 2000 overclasses the others in my opinion. Less aliasing problems in low sampling FQs and the sound remains bright without reaching the magical frequency of 44khz thing can't make Korg and Roland. Yahama is prefect to reproduce the original key even better than some others samplers but fails the more we go towards the low keys. Special mention for the S612, even at 4khz it makes the job! I was thinking you would have put the Emax I which is a 12 bit sampler. It was my first sampler and remains to me a legend.
Thanks. I could have, but I had done a detailed Emax vs Emax II already so didn't bother.
@@EspenKraft I had already watched it
Only one i still love the Tx16w for the modulations and Yamaha sound .
Liker sounden på flere av de. Veldig kul video 👍👍
Mange takk!
Love the DSS-1...kind of a DW-8000 w/ sampling. I really like the harmonic and waveform drawing features too. Still having fixing up one under my couch as a backburner project. Hate how real life (aka job) gets in the way. :-(
Life is like that for a lot of people. Life always get in the way of fun, unless you make some changes. ;-)
Great vid, thanx a lot for making these! One nerdy question: Would you prefer the S10 over the S50, and if, why? And one more: Did you ever HEAR a difference between a S50 and a S550? I've once read somewhere, they would not be identical, regarding pure audio quality... (ignoring that the S550 has more RAM, of course)
Thanks! Well, it depends on what I'm doing, but generally I'd use the S-10 over ANY other sampler. For the ease of use and the sound, mostly the sound. It's true that there is a kind of difference in sound between the S-50 and S-550, but the term "pure audio quality" is not the term I'd use. ;-) It's more about grain in the very lower octaves. The S-10 will always be my preferred choice.
Nostalgia. Produced an album using the S-330 in 1994. The filters were awesome, the sound a bit dull to be honest. Moved to the S-760 after that. Stunning fidelity and stereo sampling. Less exiter processing required.
I think the opposite. Roland S-760 like the Akai S1000/1100. Great workhorses in the studio, clinical sound with a lot less personality than the 80s models. Of course in the beginning of the 90s we didn't think like that, but now, now I much prefer the 80s models.
@@EspenKraft Thanks for this video. Indeed, moving to 16bit seemed logical at the time. I loved the S-330 and miss it for many reasons. 8 outputs, crunchy character and the audio wave 'paint' feature :)
@@EspenKraft Play around with the “Bit Convert” feature (and its associated “Skip Address” parameter) on the S-760 and be prepared to change your mind about it sounding clinical… well, maybe. Perhaps you were already aware of it.
Prophet 2000 has cool bright color if transposing down
I remember seeing an ELABORATE Example of waveform pkayback where a guy was Painting waveforms on acetate to.load them into a big machine (like an old 60-70's IBM test or something)...(the voice playback jumped around in pitch)
...Then later somebody showing their $10,000 emulator in a news segment ...
"uuuugH...it was aLL sooo far out of reacH"
...THEN ....I Went to the back of a music store thst jusT started selling actual Synths ...and the guy played the first Bass / Piano patch on the beautiful black cased MIRAGE .....AND I Fell To My KneeS in the shop!
...
after that I bought about $5000 worth of synths over the bext 4 years...when I was making a whopping $3 PER HOUR.
I was reeeally Addicted back then.
...
of course with facebook marketplace now I got about 20 samplers maybe?
(Mostly Ensoniq stuff)
I had a S612+MD280 then moved on to a TX16W with a custom OS. The TX16W is very capable, but I never really got on with it.
* they are all essentially 8 bit. 12 bit AD> 8 bit a-law file storage> either 12 or 16 bit DA. If the files didn't undergo compansion, then they could be rated at the AD resolution.
Sure, on a technical level all sorts of things is going on, but in "overall consensus" these are 12-bit samplers and they were also advertised as such by their makers. ;-)
The Akai S612 is just pure magic
Ha ha, I am old enough. I was there too.
Cheers! :D
On date of release of the devices: 1985 S612 & Prophet 2000
1986 DSS-1 & S-10
1987 S-330
1988 TX16W
another great video from you as always ! where can i finde that melodic voice like sound in your track Ocean Drive at the end ? can i buy it from you somehowe ?
Thanks! While the song plays it says on the screen to check out the video description for links. ;-)
I have links to all my featured music there. The song is available online. Cheers
I had a dream just like this two days ago, and here is your video. Synchronicity? 😊
Must be. ;-)
BTW, get the Straylight Upgrade for your DSS-1 if you don't have it already. It's so fast to load samples from disk (real USB!!) now and perform operations with the upgraded CPU. Tom is currently sold out right now, but he said he'll have more available in a few weeks. I shipped him the 2 main board PCBs and he sent them back to me in less than a week (I'm in Japan, he's in California) -- best upgrade I've ever done on an old synth!
I generally dislike physical mods like that and would definitely not pay for one. I work the DSS-1 just fine as it is. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Well, the Straylight is based on an official Korg-sponsored mod from the 80's if that helps :D Tom just added USB instead of SCSI and a couple other things to make it more modern.
You can read it here: www.straylightengineering.com/projects/korg-dss-1/the-upgrade-story/
Absolutely, I know what it is and what it can do. I've been aware of it for a long time. I just don't feel the need to pay that kind of money for what it can give me. I'm very happy with the stock factory DSS-1 and apart from having to swap out the display for a new one, it does everything i want. That's my stand on it. Others might feel the opposite and there's luckily no rights or wrongs. We all do what we like. Thanks for mentioning it for potential new people interested. :)
Kids of today would shy away from using any of these due to stone age UI. Except the S612, so fun and intuitive to use and super cool overdub function! Is it possible to install a floppy emulator in the QD unit? And super nice demo as usual!
It's not as easy as for many of the other samplers as the controller electronics is not part of the S612 itself. The S612 never had an internal QD. You have to add the electronics AND the drive so more elaborate process. It is doable though. Cheers! :D
EU SOU DO BRASIL, E SEU CANAL É SHOW...PARABÉNS...MUITO BOM MESMO...EU TAMBÉM GOSTO MUITO DE SAMPLERS
DE 12 BITS. USO BIBLIOTECAS AKAI...DE 32 KHZ E ROLAND S-550 12 BITS 30KHZ...
OS SONS SAO MUITO CHARMOSOS.
Cheers! :D
@@EspenKraft FOR YOU ALSO HAPPINESS, SURE MY ENGLISH...KKK
Who else thinking that Espen is looking like Andrew Fletcher from DM with this hair cut and glasses?
They don't make em like this anymore ☝️😪
All I could hear was 20 minutes of the drum track from That’s My Impression by PSB 😉
Probably because of the Drumulator hats and claps. It's definitely not the same drum track.
My first sampler was a Roland DJ-70, a 16bit sampler, but very easy to use. It also had waveform editing, very useful.
I just bought two DJ 70's can't wait to dive all the way into it
I was thinking about the DJ70 the other day. Sold a few back in the early 1990’s when I worked in a music shop - loved the size of it
@@justinmerritt3843 you are a lucky guy.
Roland S50-550-330-W30 (i think s10 also but i dont have service manual for it) have 16 bit AD\DA and 16 bit arithmetic's! 12 bits only for RAM storage!
This video would have been perfect if you had recorded the sounds from a old tape recorder or walkman :) Maybe next time ? Well I like it anyway ,old school sampling sounds great
I never wanted to do that for this video, but YOU can do it. ;- Cheers! :D
;o) I still use a tape recorder in my home studio setup. In the late 80s I borrowed a Yamaha VSS200 Sampler that had no disk drive or anything ,so the only way to backup samples was with a cassette recorder.And i still have the old tapes :) Cheers
Do you still use quickdisk with your S-10? I find the tactile sensation very satisfying.
I got an MKS-100 very cheap in the early 2000s with a broken QD; it just needed a new belt and some alignment. It has been working fine ever since.
If you check back just one video you'll see that I've replaced the QD in my S-10 with an emulator. The S-10 video here is old, I just edited in.
I do love to use floppies and quick disks, nothing fuels my nostalgia more, but sometimes, for practical reasons I have to do some choices based on efficiency and in the case of my S-10 and S-700 I went the emulator route.
Merci ;) good!
Cheers!
You were a teenager in 83? Damn. Must have been shortly before you got your adamantium skeleton. You look like you're in your late 30s. 🖖😁
Thanks for saying! I use a face moisturizer every day. :P
@@EspenKraft haha!
In 1983, I was only 2, until November 5th of that year, of course.
Hi Espen, how about featuring the Mirage? I’m surprised you haven’t made a video about it already!
I had one, but it was so glitchy it wouldn't work consistently. I'm looking for one right now and as soon as I get my hands on one in ok condition I will do it. I really love the Mirage and was featured a lot in my music productions a long time ago. ;-)
Thanks Espen, I look forward to that video because I know it will be great!
I had a Mirage - was very fun to use with that inbuilt overdub sequencer
I still have a Roland S-10 sampler stowed away in the attic somewhere. Disc drive is defunct now, but the instrument is otherwise still in working condition. And it has the 'upgraded' ROM allowing sample dump/load via MIDI, and a big library in SysEx format
My S-10 is stock and it receives and send samples through sample dump.
@@EspenKraft I got mine just when the instrument came out - I guess the upgrade ROM was installed as standard in later batches of the instrument.
@@NONFamers Strange as I too got it new. It always could do that.
Those 12 bit samplers actually sound pretty good!
I never knew the S series of Roland Samplers had a video out for the editor, saying that I was never that familiar with them, I do recall using a friends BBC model B around that time although I can't remember if it was for sequencing or editing.
It was for both. Director S is the name of that part of the software. I didn't show this here. The S-50/550/330 have that, but not the W-30, S-10/MKS-100. Of the 80s S samplers.
@@EspenKraft Please do a video on Director S and the rest of the software, this somehow sounds familiar to me, I dont have a BBC model B anymore but I do have an emulator and a spare Raspberry Pi 4, I know what I am doing this weekend!
I never used the Director S much, I always used hardware sequencers.
How well does TAL sampler 12 bit resample function hold up to the classics?
The TAL sampler is my preferred VST sampler/player. That should count for something. ;-)
Very nice video.Can you please do one video dedicated to Roland s330?
Thanks! I have done that already in the form of the S-550 video. With the RGB out going to the external screen, it's the same thing. The S-330 just have less memory than the S-550.
@@EspenKraft ok, I must have missed it.
How does the TAL Sampler relate to these hardware samplers? I bought your presets for the TAL sampler.
Thanks! The TAL sampler is the best VST sampler (player) out there. It comes really close to a real 80s sampler in terms of sound.
Will using a lower sampling frequency add more "dirt" in form of useful character to the sound ?
Yes
This is exactly what I show in this video, if you watch it. ;-)
now you look like you're in high school. the prophet was the first sampler I laid hands on. the buttons, oh, the buttons. my mother: "don't touch that. we have a sampler at home!"
me:😭
6 months ago I could have bought a spotless s-50 for the equivalent of 90€. took too long to decide.
Cheers! :D
Hello Espen from Tallinn 🇪🇪🙋♀️Why this 12 bit machine sounds so powerful?
It's not about them sounding powerful or being powerful imo, I care only about the sound and the sound of 12 bit samplers is the sound of the 80s. ;-)
Extremely interesting! Does someone knows any artists who made this kind of music?
I do. ;-)
I owned the Prophet 2000 but never had a click with Sequential Circuits gear .
No shame in that.
you need to get a cheetah sx16.... one of the best 12bit rackmount samplers ever... very under rated and sounds gorgeous... :D it says 16bit on it but its compressed 12bit.
Don't think I've ever seen one for sale around here.
i have 2 of them, it also takes a mouse and screen, never heard anything like it
I had an S612 in my rack for over 20 years simply because it looked better than a blank panel! Gave it away a few years ago...😖 smh!
Bad move. ;-)
Just asking have you reviewed the jd-800?
Why not just check his videos. He's reviewed both the JD-800 and the JD-990.
@@nn99nn99 I will do that
One search phrase on top of my channel and you'll find it. ;-)
Do you really think thats no difference in the sound between the 330 and the 550 ? Input and output stages included? I think on that keyboard magazine comparisons from 89, the 330 scores very different from the 550 in many aspects sound wise, if I remember correctly.
I love reading old issues of Keyboard Magazine and they sure messed up often in their conclusions back then. If you're a cork sniffer I'm sure you could find differences, but the S-330 and 550 sound the same for all practical purposes.
I noticed something with the S612 that doesn’t seem to happen with the others. You can almost see and feel as well as hear the fidelity decrease with the sampling rate. Am I the only one who notices that?
You are
Right, @@saren6538.
Espen Kraft(werk)
Wonderful!
My first sampler was an S10 and I got it new in the 80’s. Now I have an S220, S330, S550,S770 and Ensoniq EPS classic. Ya I love the Rolands the most. S770 is the best one although it is 16 bit. I also love the S220 although it gets little love as it is rare and not very powerful.
I think the S770 is too clean, it does not have any mojo. It's powerful though so more of a workhorse, just like the Akai S1000 back in the day.
@@EspenKraft its very clean and sometimes I want a clean crisp sound so I will use the S770 for best sound quality via optical digital outs and ins.
@@Novaheart1998 Nothing wrong with that, we all do what we feel is the best solution for the sound we're going for.
@@EspenKraft Many people over the years have claimed that the S770 is the best sounding sampler of all time. There is a thread on Gearslutz in which the actual developers of the Roland S series samplers join a discussion and one of them describes in detail why the S770 actually makes anything you put into it sound better. They said no other sampler they've ever used comes close to doing what it does to samples. So claiming it's like an Akai S1000 and just a clean, sterile sampler is not really doing it justice.
This comment will probably get buried, but if anyone is looking for that Keyboard Magazine Samplers article, it is posted here:
llamamusic.com/s50s550/Samplers_Keyboard_Magazine_-_March_1989.pdf
As long as you post some text saying what the link is about, I approve it. And you did. ;-)
AWESOME EVERY TIME...✨💖💖💖✨😇😇😇😎😎🎼🎹🎼🎹👍👍👍👍👍👍 ....!!!!!
Cheers! :D
If you HAD to keep just one of these, and sell the rest...what would it be?
Well, I have sold 3 of them lately actually. I still have the S-330 and the TX16W, but these are also for sale. ;-)
Which synth did you sample? :)
Sounds like the Crumar BIT01.
I don't think you mentioned the fact that the Yamaha TX16W is a Stereo sampler(Great for stereo Drum loops) or the fact that it has an OS that's more useable made by a private party Nuedge Typhoon 2000.
I do like your Videos alot Espen. Not being negative.
Yes I did, and much more. I explicitly say in the video you should check out the video description for more info. ;-) I always pepper my video descriptions with lots of additional information.
Sure, like I always say, check the video description. Cheers