Does A Lighter Wheel Make Your Mountain Bike Faster? | Cross Country Vs Enduro MTB Wheels
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Rich is back with some more (sort of) science! This time investigating the claim that a light wheelset is faster than a heavier one with a timed flow trail section, a coast down a 300m section of fireroad, and a quick fireroad ascent. Which wheels do you think will be fastest?
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Wheels are a great first upgrade for your mountain bike, but how much of a difference does a lighter wheelset make to the rolling speed and handling of your bike? Rich set himself three challenges at Bike Park Wales to find out.
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Which wheels do you think will be fastest?
I think the heavier ones
Most stable or fastest?
@@hansghunter fastest
I think cause the Heaver one are more stable will give more confidence which will make you faster
This needs a second run going deeper. Could you compare two sets of wheels with the same width but different weight? And throw in some rooty trails, I suppose the heavy wheels will do good there.
You really need to test wheels with the same internal width too, to remove the 'feel' variation.
I was thinking this too, but for most wheels, width is *how* they make them lighter or heavier. Yeah, there's carbon, but honestly, for most people, carbon is not only not an economical option, it's just not what we want, either.
And again with wheels of similar weight but different widths to remove the weight difference. How would a light but wide wheelset cope. For many, that would be a natural trailbile upgrade, rather than XC wheels?
Mainly due to pressure difference. Putting the same pressure into wider rim wheel, gives harder tire. There are now tire pressure calculators, which i believe take rim width into account too, so "the same" pressure can be calculated for testing and it should be....different.
My fatbike has heavy wheels... But I also find that gives them wonderful momentum once you get them rolling.
Momentum = mass × velocity. Heavy wheels for the win
@@JoeyG333 Downhill. Fat climbs, tho...
IMO you missed the main advantage of lighter wheels... pedaling up to speed out of a slow corner or tech maneuver. To be fair, this seems much harder to test accurately.
Exactly. They are a big advantage in cyclocross where you are constantly accelerating out of corners.
300m? In 10 seconds? Errrm....you might wanna check your tape measure there mate. Something tells me you ain't doing 30m a second at any wheel weight....not unless you've strapped a motor to that bike of yours!
30m/s is 67mph. FYI
I think he means 300 feet
@@DaanRacer it's still fast af!
It wouldn't go that fast even if you tossed it from a cliff. No matter how heavy the wheels are.
300ft for 10sec it's about 20mph average speed, sounds more than real, guys
For MTB, carbon wheels are theoretically faster as we do alot of stop starting where we can benefit from the ease of getting the wheels up to speed after braking. But the difference isn't really that big so just ride what you prefer the feel of.
Funilly enough weight in wheels actually matters less for roadies than us.
The primary advantage of a light wheel is decreasing inertia, not momentum, which is what you guys tested. In addition to being overall lighter, a light wheel shifts a higher percentage of its weight toward the hub due to the hoop being lighter. So a better test would’ve been to test the wheels up high-torque technical climbing.
Also, use the same width wheel for cryin out loud. As a side note, I’ve used those E13 Al wheels and they just don’t hold up well. Beginner/intermediate riding should be ok but not more.
It would have been interesting to see the wheels tested in more gnarly terrain to see whether the extra weight of the heavier wheels would have carried more speed over the terrain features
They might, but only proportionally to how much energy you had to put in them! No free lunches from inertia boys.
Didn’t some engineer debunk this heavy vs light wheel nonsense on GCN? I.e. there’s no over arching difference on the grounds of E=MC2. Light weight wheels accelerate quicker but also decelerate quicker. Heavier wheels are slower to accelerate but also slower to decelerate. If you push more energy into them (to get them moving) then that energy will continue to move them. The main difference is just perception. Light weight wheels ‘feel’ quicker as it’s more noticeable when your putting the power down.
Yes, exactly. The only place the lighter wheels win is acceleration and fighting gravity on a climb. Assuming many accelerations and much climbing it is still likely seconds per hour of riding. That doesn't sell e13 wheels though.
Can you test Absolute Blacks new oval wheels?
Can’t wait to ride the new square wheels!
Good vid RIch its crazy now how heavier wider also means faster more grip more control. I was a weight weenie for years and know run 29 rims wtb i 35 and love them almost everywere.
Because I do XC/TRAIL with my enduro bike, I am upgrading from alu 30 mm to carbon 30 mm XC wheels, lighter tires, lighter cassette (from 12x NX to 11x X01). Total weight reduction rear = 800 gram. front 500 gram. Both wheel sets are good for same system weight as the originals, so should be durable. I sold my original wheels, so will never swap wheels, only swap tires.
This is silly, you added a width variable which isn't always true when switching to a lighter wheelset. For most people, 1,750g is light (DT Swiss XM481 on DT240 hubs for example) and will represent a massive weight saving over their 2,200g OEM wheelset.
It's more about fatigue and endurance. It's how you feel towards the end of the day and climbing is a pain on heavy wheels...
Yep, a bunch of excuses and no average power shown.
When's the crankbrothers stamp winner being announced
Agreed. Internal width needs to be the same. If not you’ve added another variable...the tire shape and volume. I personally run 29mm wheels @ 1340grams on my Procaliper
That’s ridiculously light. What wheelset?
So lucky to ride BPW I actually can’t wait till it reopens
The wheel's gyroscopic effect has a huge effect on the ride. At low speed, this will be negligible but at high speeds, a heavier wheel will be harder to turn but more stable over rough tracks. It will feel a bit like a steering dampener. The rolling momentum will also carry better over bumps. The light wheel conversely will change direction faster and change speed faster.
It's a relevant and interesting question.
Please read all the other comments and then make this video again comparing like for like not light AND NARROW vs heavier AND WIDE. As you said - the narrower wheelset gives a different tyre profile so this really does prove absolutely nothing.
They can't because e13 doesn't sell them ...
@@adaycj ah... And it would be a shame to miss an opportunity to earn money just because of accuracy.
I think I'm done with gmbn.
@@davelloyd8454 I think we all know what we are getting with these anymore. It does bother me a little that they didn't use the "paid promotion" indicator on this video. That quick quip about being sponsored by e13 was the legal substitute in this case. Which wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't failed to show the data to make the expensive carbon hoops look better for XC. It is even a little more sad when you note that e13 has 30mm internal carbon wheels that could have made the comparison much closer. Of course we all know that it would have been way too close to call (it was anyway). In the end it was a few minutes of free entertainment and we got what we paid for it.
I'm curious how much of a difference that increased weight plays in maintaining speed on level ground. Say you've got the same bike with heavy DH wheels vs XC with the same tire profile and model. After ten hard pedal strokes, which one will roll the farthest?
My trail bike was 35lbs stock. I spent maybe another $200 afterward and dropped it to just under 33lbs while also increasing my fork travel, setting up tubeless, and increasing saddle comfort among other things. The one thing I didn’t do is the wheel set because I’m sure I could drop it another lb+ but at what cost? Much more than $200 for that next lb. Not worth the money since I’m not racing.
Heyya GMBN. Couldnt you put what make and modell of bikes you are using in your test in the description? Or is it already in there but i missed it
GREAT CHANNEL and thx for making me riding faster and safer after each video. Love it :D
Funny enough I've been thinking for a while my T130 is over tyred most of the time with it's winter DHF/DHR or Dissector and Summer DHF/Aggressor set up. The bike never really gets to it's sweet spot of speed and handling.
Last night I swapped the DHF MaxTerra for a Dissector DC and the lifeline DH tube for a normal Maxxis one
As this vids a bit techy here's the numbers.
DHF is 953g and the Dissector 844g.
The DH tube 259g and the Maxxis 184g.
This is a nice weight saving of 179g
The rear was just a swap from the Dissector to the Aggressor DC 894g which is only 23g but rolling resistance was the aim here.
Heading out on road and bridleways the resistance up front seemed very similar to the DHF which rolls amazingly well for a enduro lump of rubber and the noise if anything was up which was a surprise as the dual compound should be harder. Looking at the tread patterns however the DHF is long and skinny blocks while the Dissector is much fatter and wider despite being lower profile.
Again on the trails it didn't feel much different in speed at first, less bite in turns but grip was there when the tyre was trusted.
I did notice how light the front end felt and even got a little bit of acceleration lift which I never do however it was change of direction that impressed me, it took less force to make a change and it happened quicker but not in an unstable way.
Conditions were good, days of dry weather and this flat flowing woodland trail was in near prime condition.
I've ridden it in better, I've ridden it harder and with more effort yet there it was, a new PB, two of them on the two runs I did within a second of each other.
Next up is a red trail down one of the most recognisable hills in pasty land, it's mud/dirt/rocks, fairly steep and techy at the top, fast at the bottom and it's at the edge of what I'll comfortably ride.
I wasn't trying to set a time, I had no idea how the Dissector would grip in the dirt which was halfway between hero and slick, a tacky layer that had the Aggressor packing up quicker than Megan when she found out she'll not be a princess.
Steady as she goes on the first bits but as it gets easier the further you go I was quickly gaining confidence and finding if you trusted the Dissector it just works, that quickness in handling was still there pointing down and allowed me to go where I wanted rather than the bumping down in whatever direction the DHF wants.
I met a dog walker on the start of the fast section passing slow and wide, and his dog on the first sharp bend but then I could do something I've not managed all year as the track dries out, I let it go and it just gripped. No wandering offline, just the Aggressor skipping along out the back firing it's mud in all directions.
The T130 was back in it's sweetspot just as I had hoped.
The result, just 10 seconds off my PB, set in fully dry conditions with no walkers and oddles of grip and the top half wasn't so rutted back then; a years worth of lockdown rider and walkers has taken it's toll.
I also put a lighter wheelset on last year, biggest difference there is less pitch stability in the air with less weight at either end of the bike, and slightly less ploughability in the rough; didn't feel like it changed much else.
Got this far? Thanks :D
Next year when this video comes out, please use tire pressure calculator, that takes rim width into account.
Putting the same pressure into wider rim, gives harder tire. "The same" pressure can be calculated for testing, and it should be....different
It would have been more interesting to compare an OEM wheel to an aftermarket of the same inner width. e.g. run the test on a stock Canyon Stoic, (30mm) and then throw on those 30mm eThirteens and see what difference it made.
The add placement is amazing
Giuseppe Marinoni (builder of Marinoni bikes in Canada) Said that the difference in weight between a carbon road frame and a chromo One is the weight of a water bottle... Should we pedal more??? Is it worth the price?? Or put all the stuff in your camelback (tubes, multitool, snack...) Or in your in frame bike storage??
Shouldn't it be the same width wheels and then lighter? Bit more comparable.
Anyways:)
GMBN is about making low quality budget content frequently, they don't have time for that.
I thought it was about weight not width.
@@conceri yeah definitly. But if you change 2 constants (more actually) what can you really say.)
I think GMBN might also be in the position to find that out better than any of us.
Iam obsessed with light carbon XC bikes. They turn and react quick and are fun on up and down.
I'd always go for the heavy and robust back wheel, because I bend the XC-wheels all the time
Learn to ride properly, mechanical sympathy and effort to ride more smoothly will help you float over the ground better and improve your skill
All I could think about was how much water is in the bidon each run?! Surely that will be having an impact?
More than the wheels 😉😁
It's either in the bottle of the body. The additional lunch is a problem.
Man, this was the least scientific test yet.
Yeah, more of a marketing job for e13. He even misstated that a skinner tire rolls better ... Oh boy, here we go with that "theory" that will never die. I also noticed no power data. He started with 300 watts and started talking about "300 to 320" before he even tested the expensive ones he was told to make look better.
Hey Rich, what's that blue thing in the background? You know, the bright n' beautiful blue bits where all the drab, grey clouds should be? Not sure I've seen that before on GMBN.
I'd rather have more speed and more grip shredding down the gnar being a taller & bigger bloke. 30mm for me. Gives me better tire options for my kind of riding too. Speed uphill isn't such a worry for me. I'm not racing anyone.
“...shredding down the gnar...” just sounds so funny. 😆. Like, totally DUDE!
@@keirfarnum6811 Different countries and ages. I grew up in the 80's. I'm old...lol
I would have loved to see this swapping out the Martello for a Banzo/Mezcal combo. The Martello tires are beefy.
Well done. Pick the wheel that matches the type of riding you do most.
Best way to lighten up my bike is to loose a few pounds. Hopefully it will warm up here soon. Idaho USA
10 seconds to roll down 300m? Not so sure about that mate.
That's 67.5mph.
🤔
I think he means 300 feet, then it's about 20mph in average
do it again with the same width rims
hi I was wondering what mud gard and what do you use to clean your bike
Very interesting video Rich.
When are we getting a Science sticker #GMBN? 😂🤘
You had lunch? Maybe that changed the results.
The different wheel widths can impact the shape of the tire and therefore rolling resistance that may skew the results a tiny bit.
More xc content please!!!
luv your vids
I have the same LG1+ wheels in my Meta AM29. Would you say it will be the same result if you try the same width wheels set, but still lighter than the LG1's?
A rotating mass is a mass doubled, so yes, very much so, but tyre choice is as important, having lightweight wheels then putting on 2kg worth of tyres defeats the object completely
I really don't think slow coasting speed is useful at all. Perhaps to satisfy a weird curiosity.
Do a race start effort on both?
Will that XC wheelset hold up to some abuse? I am looking at purchasing that wheelset. or should I go with ethirteen trail wheelset?
More hardtail content please!
On trailbikes (motorcross etc) un sprung weight is GOD... the less weight you have on your wheels, the quicker your suspension can react, the more you can stick that tyre to the ground.
SO... now put piece of 4x2 on the road, hit it at the exact same speed with moth tyres and look at the video in slow mo to see how quickly the heavier vs lighter responds to the hit.
There is probably a middle ground somewhere between a skittish light tyre, and a sluggish heavy tyre... (imagine filling a tyre with water and seeing how the suspension reacts...
... hmmmmmm in fact . . . try that too!
Sam Pilgrim did lol
This should've used similar diameter rims. If the tire changes shape (due to narrow rim) it's as if using two different tires. You can get these days very light 30mm internal width carbon wheels (~1.4kg) so it's no excuse to use i24mm.
Just using 1 attempt for times is kinda meh... Not very scientific.
Also its very obvious that lighter wheels are better at braking and accelerating, due to lower mass and inertia. So using tests that don't even involve pedaling or stopping is also like - why? I guess for fun that's fine, but not very useful or scientific.
I would like a proper comparison, but even without that it's obvious what the result would be.
When your trail wheelset is heavier than their Enduro wheelset
Running tubes actually has a significant effect on rolling resistance and wheel inertia. Proportional change in unsprung weight is also lower when a tube is used since the overall system remains heavier.
What is the best all around bike? I am from Los Angeles and want a bike that I can ride in the streets but can also take on gravel, dirt roads and to hit some light trails in the hills/mountains nothing to crazy though. I’m on a budget of 1500$
It depends. Do you prefer high speed on road to gravel surfaces, then I would recommend a gravel bike. Do you prefer comfortable off-roading over tree roots, is there sand or other soft surfaces, I would prefer a Hardtail XC bike. That's what I just bought. It's not tour de France fast on the roads, but gets the job done. And I really prefer the RockShox over a rigid bike.
@@janmatz I mean I have a fixed gear bike for the streets but I doubt it can go on gravel since the tires are very thin. I just started being active and going out to the mountains a lot so I would rather look for something that can ride decent on the streets but can withstand everything else from riding trails to taking it on gravel roads, dirt roads and up hills when I go hiking if that makes sense.
@@janmatz how do the hardtails do in the roads in general are they any good?
@@therealmorganfreeman2875 it should be possible to go on gravel with that bike, although it always depends on what you consider gravel. In most Bike videos gravel is a pretty hard , flat surface with some loose gravel on it. The fixed gear will probably be a bigger problem if you want to do longer rides. If you just want to get fit and keep in shape, you can also use your fixie, you will sometimes have to pedal harder, or drive slower, but that's training. It probably just doesn't feel like proper biking.
What you explain does make perfect sense. Before I continue, just a short disclaimer, I am far from beeing an expert, however, I spent quite some thoughts on this lately as well.
So what I did was, that I reflected on which kind of routes I prefer to take (I had a mountainbike before and did about 700 miles last year). I was really interested in getting a gravel bike. In the end, I decided for a Hardtail MTB, although I do a lot of road, but even more offroad, gravel, sand and forest tracks.
So why did I recommend a hardtail and not a fully? For 1500$ you can get a decent, light hardtail, with good parts, that will do all kinds of surfaces. A fully was too expensive for me, or too heavy, and with bad components, which will take the fun out of it. Something that can also happen if you select a bike with a more downhill geometry. So a XC bike is probably best, to get you up and down the hills and will drive properly on the roads. On my bike I replaced the front chainring to get a higher possible top speed.
The cost of carbon fiber wheels only makes sense when seconds count such as a race. I don't see the cost effectivity for non-competitive applications.
What would happen if I put a light 27.5 wheel on the back of my 29r and ceap the stock from weal
mullet bike
@@alexandermuniz7362 no way 😂
Ur a Genius
I need to lose 20 pounds off my ass before I worry about my bike, lol
The whole comparison is really useless as you needed to compare using the same width of rim. The rim width differences effect the rolling profile and handling of the tire.
sooo what are we testing? weight, or narrow vs wide rims?
-"in theory the heavier wheel should get there first, shouldn't it?"
-of course not, gravitational acceleration is not mass dependant... the heavier the object the higher the gravitational force, but also the higher inertia
No, he's right because he's not descending in a vacuum is he?
@@fillfreakin2245 Soo, you are suggesting that air resistance is mass (not shape) dependant? :D The only thing that matters is the rotational inertia, but there is no simple transition from higher mass, because what matters the most is how the mass is distributed.
My new titanium frame is 2lbs lighter and I notice but it doesn’t change much
I think my bike would be faster if I lost 6 stone :D
14-15 here...lol
Why are so many pro enduro riders back on AL? That would have been the right question for a test.
Sorry this was product placement masked as a test. And I wouldn't say that the wheels are bad or anything, but this was too obvious.
AL for the win! We ain't riding road bikes, weight does not have such an impact. To compensate my full camel back I would have to use maybe seven carbon frames instead of AL. Just to give things a relation to the real world.
To make that clear, I would have to use those seven frames at the same time!
The heavier wheels being slower on the fire road descent seems very unexpected from a simplified physics point of view. You'd think heavier rims take up more of your gravitational potential energy to spin up the rims to a certain angular velocity compared to lighter rims. I'm not sure if my simplified comment makes sense, so here's someone else's video haha:
ua-cam.com/video/jaqS5dJlrjY/v-deo.html&ab_channel=FlippingPhysics
Much better video 👍
You’ve confused this with rim width. It’s a shame given you eliminated tyres, psi, rider and bike variables.
Perhaps repeat with wheel weights added to a lightweight rim?
Sorry to be a spoiler 😁 but you changed to the lighter wheel set, then had lunch! Did that offset the weight difference? Just asking!
Depends if he had a PRD
Do all wheel sets have the same hubs?
Did he mean 30m descent
The biggest difference is acceleration coming outta corners
people trying carbon wheels vs al but they are masked off so we can see what people feel
Those big wheels... years are passing away, and I still find those 29'' visually unattractive and frames literally ugly, at least in full suspension set-up. I still prefer 26'' combined with longish wheel base and full suspension, it gives me kind of "motorcycle flavor".
26'ers look like baby bikes to me. Slow and you have to pick the fork up to get over major roots.
@@4partmedia As for slow-VS-fast, it strongly depends on context. Smaller wheels are more dexterous-and-dynamic, they rapidly accelerate and decelerate, they quickly strike-through twisty lines and maneuver like a fox. They are better for less rough and more curvy/curly trails.
They give a feeling of BMX / street-bike combined with mountain bike, I adore such mixture. However, I can agree that XL+ frame sizes often had weird/quirky look, my M and L sized frames look amazing though. Motorcycles have wheels smaller than 26'' and nobody calls them slow baby-bikes, they slash the road with hundreds of kmh or mph, they drag the dirty/muddy trails as well.
I have a 30mm on the front and a 25mm on the rear, its a slim mullet🤩
The bike is solid and my Ebike conversion went great. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Very smooth ride at 30mph with no problems (135 miles ridden so far). The picture is a bit deceiving - there is WAY less space in the center of the frame than it shows. The suspension connection takes up the entire thing. So I needed to attach my battery on the bottom of the frame and my controller on the top. Instructions for assembly were lacking but honestly it wasn't too hard to figure out even though I have very little bike knowledge. Watched some youtube videos on adjusting the disk brakes but that was it. Still, I am loving it and very happy with the purchase.
I get the slow Mo but what's with the FFW of the vid ?
Next test on an xc course🤙
Without the same internal widths being the same, your comparison is pretty worthless. Are the differences down to weight or tire width and rolling resistance? No way to know with this "test". Does E13 not make carbon and aluminum wheels with the same width and hubs?
Additionally, the relative effect of that 500g weight is much smaller than the relative difference between the measured times. Seems pretty clear that weight difference alone cannot explain the results.
My 1000$ dollar xc bike weighs abt 12kg. My question is. Is 12 kg light for a 29er HT XC BIKE?
I would say it depends on further config like dropper post. However, for a 1000$ bike IMHO the weight is pretty good.
I love my santa Cruz carbon reserve and my i9 enduro carbon wheels
That's good for you.
What about system weight? Rich, when you put on the light wheels you said you just ate lunch. You lost wheel weight, but gained weight on your person....
Kind of defeating the purpose of this by running tubes. Both are heavy.
Race XC go with lighter wheelsets
How does he do 300m in 8.8s? He'd be doing 122 km/h!
sorry about hydrogen , would you please show what happens when tires are filled with helium
Waste of time test I'm afraid. Changing two parameters (weight AND size) means you can't be sure which is having the observed effects on results.
Basic science. Go back and start over.
This test wasn't science at all. He even admits that the power test wasn't the same.
@Npch-MTBkings
Is this a freestyle bike
This test was really bad. You should have the same rim width.
I love the content but the amount of ad's almost make this unwatchable. I had ad's amost every 1:30 - 2 min. Great vid, lousy viewing experience.
adblock extension
I didn’t have a single add, no blocker or yt pay...🤷♂️
That is definitely not the kind of riding I do.
Second because god is always first
sounds like cringe but ok
is yer dad Donny Burger?
👍👍👍👍❤️
Loght
F, 🚴🚴🚴🚴🚴🚴
Firdt
ur about to get bullied
First
ur about to get bullied
1st :)
1st :)