I think it was actually a very simple play on mid stakes. He took both of his jacks, including one which is spade, and made it look like he either has JT OR backdoor flush BECAUSE, he figured his opponent had either queens, kings or aces. Which he couldnt beat
Meh, bad bluff imo. Sure he gets overpairs to fold *but thats it*. All of hero's other value hand/traps besides straights (2 pair etc) are going to be cry calling way too often. I think the only reason he even tried it was because he had a spade but trying to use card removal against backdoor combo draws is a bit overkill since you have to give your opponent A LOT of credit for trying to chase with them in the first place.
I just think the hero’s straight is so hidden that he has to call. If villain hits backdoor flush so be it. I don’t think he plays J10 hearts that way so it’s a tough call but a call.
My thinking too - villains not putting hero on a 6 virtually ever, so he's thinking "one liner to a straight, backdoor flush comes in, I can make nearly everything in his range fold".
This is a really interesting hand review. I think both players played their hand great. Very heads up play by Neeme recognizing that his JJ was no good, but he had a great potential bluff hand. It takes a lot of courage and awareness to make that play. He just ran into it. Has he covered this hand on his channel? I would love to see what he has to say about it.
@@EllieBanks333 I found the video. On the river, he mentioned that the caller was repping big over pairs the whole way. He didn't really explain why he continued to call the whole way then unless he was considering turning his hand into a bluff on the river. I have a hunch that he thought he was beat the whole way and became more and more confident of that as the hand continued. But he can't just fold an over pair on a live stream. I think he was just expecting to lose to a bigger over pair, chalk it up to a cooler and the price of doing business (vlogging and live streaming) and then move on. But the river was really great for his range as played, and he had great removal to the nuts, so he decided to turn it into a bluff. It should be noted that Neeme's original strategy of just check calling would have actually worked out had the caller not backed into that straight. If the board just pairs and he checks, I think he would have called a bet and beat Ah6h. Or maybe the caller would have just given up and checked it back. I don't remember if he mentioned what his river plan was in the call with Bart.
Didn't watch this particular stream, so I didn't know the hand yet. I was thinking Js Qs and maybe 10s with either hearts or spade in hand. This is a call all day long with Ah6h. the only time I consider folding this is if it is a tight Nit and even then ..... The hand I'd be most worried would be As9s which is one of the hands that gets here like this at the end.
What kind of logic assumes that he potentially folds hearts on the turn but calls spades. If we are afraid to call here we should probably reconsider if we are comfortable in these stakes I think it's a very clear call assuming the villain is capable of bluffing. He can bluff with hearts , pocket 10s, pocket jacks, something weird like j8s or 10/9 s, it's clear that this river is bad for our range so it's very possible to face many unorthodox bluffs.
Yep. This was an absolutely ridiculous nit roll from hero. Any other competent player is thinking 5 seconds and flicking a chip in. We’re simply too high up in range and V is too wide as played , especially with the stream dynamic and the lack of aggression on turn.
Well, I disagree that it was “ridiculous”, but you’re right I’m never folding in that spot. I thought for maybe a minute to make sure I wasn’t missing something obvious.
The result of this hand for the caller is pretty much max EV. He got lucky in 2 ways: 1 - He cold 3bet with Ah6H pre-flop and his opponent believed his JJ was likely behind. 2 - The flop is gin for his actual hand. That means he can keep betting with some back up plan incase his Neeme is not a full believer just yet. 3 - He hit the perfect river for his actual hand. 4 - Neeme had the awareness to know what his perceived range was and that at this point, he likely wasn't good with his actual hand, so he decided to represent what the caller was holding.
I think it's better to call the river bet with a set of 9s than to call with A6 of hearts when you block the missed nut flush draws. I was expecting J-8 or 10-8 of hearts here as a bluff. But those might fold preflop.
I would call with 99 also. It seems like the bluff is representing a flush here, or maybe the top end straight JT. So I don't know if I agree with caller that AA is an auto-muck here. I'm not sure I see the difference between callers small straight or a set or AA. I mean, is this really ever 77 from Neeme? Villain seems very polarized with this line.
I think this is a pretty well played hand by both players to be honest, and even though he ran into a straight at the end, I really like the bluff with the double straight blockers and with a spade, like hero said, red aces or kings are almost always going in the muck.
I hate the flop play. The caller says he's betting his range; but this board doesn't hit 3-bet range. So you're really only repping over-pairs. So you should ask what you'd do with QQ here. You should be betting more than 25% on the flop.
damn I thought Andrew was the hero the whole time 😂 i was so confused when the graphics showed him betting on the river. I thought it was going to be some kind of “twist” where he was telling the story from villains pov or something
It's a tough spot but instinctively I would call, the only problem is like you talked about is what are his bluffs... But still it's on the live stream. It's a gangster line to bluff on but Neeme still played it quite weird. I would call but I couldn't justify it on theory really, it's just that there isn't much value and not many bluffs. So it's just about feeling for me.
Hey guys. I feel dumb but why should we defend 50% of our range to a pot size bet, if we have a 1:2 pot odds, meaning we need to win 33% of the time. Can someone explain, please?
If only 33% of your range beats villain's range so you have to call 50% of your range vs a pot size bet in order to be EV 0. Just assumptions of how many bluffs villain has that defines how high in your range you have to call.
@@clementl.784 The idea is that if you're folding more than 50% of the time vs. a pot-sized bet, the villain can auto-profit by making the bet, which you don't want to allow. Let's say you fold 60% of your combos to a pot-sized bet... now villain auto-profits 20% of the pot in the long run by making that bet.
Not jamming but leaving himself 900 is also genius because even if your bluff gets called, you are never gonna get raised there by any hand except the nut flush
Before reveal.... All his spades that are lower are double draws like JTss. Axss there are ~5 combos assuming he 3bs ATss+. As for hearts he has less combos. Maybe JThh, QThh, KThh.... He isn't doing this with 2 pairs or sets. He could have a 6x hand. The thing here is that our hero bet really large OTT. He really doesn't have odds to call there for a naked FD. He likely has the Axss low or busted hearts. This would really depends on how much I know the villain. He is s pro so he has a bluffing range. But does he have enough of one to call? In my games I would lean on folding as pros aren't this complicated with balance. But this is different. I would bluff at this board against the hero. The only other thing I spotted here is that Neeme seemed comfortable on the flop with a 5s decision, uncomfortable OTT with a 7s decision. This really depends on his 3b range in this game. In my games his turn behavior leads to NOT a FD as most players will quickly call. He also left some money behind which is a strategy when you are bluffing large to lose a little less. We assume he is balanced also. If I saw him calling raises with odd hands like say Q9s in this spot. I'd lean on calling. I don't know how loose he plays.
This can just simply never be a fold against a competent player. This is 100% villain’s card from a range perspective, so we can never fold when we actually have the type of hand our opponent is repping. We might chop with value. Sure we lose to flushes but that’s just life in this spot.
I’m the hero in this hand. I’m not sure what kind of games you play in, but in my regular 2/5/+10 game, I’m snap folding this spot all day against 80% of the field, and printing money doing it.
Horrible play by Andrew in my opinion (Yes great combo to bluff) but the runout was so bad for him but ESPECIALLY u…. Very easy for the overpairs u have to check back…. Why call turn if u think ur up against over pair then try and bluff them when u might be able to get off cheap?? Thoughts
Um...I don't see why this is a good bet as a bluff by Neeme. It's a small bet compared to the pot. It's not going to get a lot of folds. What better hand is he trying to get to fold? Specifically AA, KK, and QQ? Nah, just take showdown value with JJ and check back.
@@Caspergomezz I'm not a fan of the small sizing on flops either. They are very popular now though. Mostly because they are mathematically correct in multiway spots.
I dont get it. Instant call on river for me. Caller stated its an agressive game where players reg making plays..dont know how you can consider folding.. Havent seen reveal yet Ahh bart agreed with me ..good. Caller was just a nit
@@Stumpwater27 if two (or more) players are in a hand, only the player with the smallest stack’s stack size matters. if you have $1000 and i have $100, the effective stack is $100 since the most either of us can win or lose is $100. even though you have $1000, you can’t lose more than $100 since i can’t bet more than $100
If you have black aces it makes it less likely that villain made a flush, which makes it more likely villain is bluffing...including putting Axh into villain's range.
What a gangster bluff though
Don’t mind if I take your adjective thanks 😂😂
@@CrushlivePoker Please feel free😆
Agreed. I liked the play.
That play by Andrew really impressed me.
I think it was actually a very simple play on mid stakes. He took both of his jacks, including one which is spade, and made it look like he either has JT OR backdoor flush BECAUSE, he figured his opponent had either queens, kings or aces. Which he couldnt beat
@@Senorzilchnzero the he might be better off folding on the turn. Little bit of a randomn button click, imo
Meh, bad bluff imo. Sure he gets overpairs to fold *but thats it*. All of hero's other value hand/traps besides straights (2 pair etc) are going to be cry calling way too often. I think the only reason he even tried it was because he had a spade but trying to use card removal against backdoor combo draws is a bit overkill since you have to give your opponent A LOT of credit for trying to chase with them in the first place.
Me too
I just think the hero’s straight is so hidden that he has to call. If villain hits backdoor flush so be it. I don’t think he plays J10 hearts that way so it’s a tough call but a call.
My thinking too - villains not putting hero on a 6 virtually ever, so he's thinking "one liner to a straight, backdoor flush comes in, I can make nearly everything in his range fold".
It’s the crying call where you throw the chips towards your opponent while your ready to just muck your hand once he rolls over the flush or J10
TY! It took all the commentary for me to appreciate the play Neeme made. Nice hand!
It feels like every time the card comes out on the river that makes your hand it also potentially ruins it.
Reverse implied odds
When I read that I also felt that lol
you just focus on the times that it happens. however when an easy card comes out on the river that makes your hand, you don't notice it as much.
This is a really interesting hand review. I think both players played their hand great. Very heads up play by Neeme recognizing that his JJ was no good, but he had a great potential bluff hand. It takes a lot of courage and awareness to make that play. He just ran into it. Has he covered this hand on his channel? I would love to see what he has to say about it.
At what point did he realize JJ was no good?
@@EllieBanks333 I found the video. On the river, he mentioned that the caller was repping big over pairs the whole way. He didn't really explain why he continued to call the whole way then unless he was considering turning his hand into a bluff on the river. I have a hunch that he thought he was beat the whole way and became more and more confident of that as the hand continued. But he can't just fold an over pair on a live stream. I think he was just expecting to lose to a bigger over pair, chalk it up to a cooler and the price of doing business (vlogging and live streaming) and then move on. But the river was really great for his range as played, and he had great removal to the nuts, so he decided to turn it into a bluff.
It should be noted that Neeme's original strategy of just check calling would have actually worked out had the caller not backed into that straight. If the board just pairs and he checks, I think he would have called a bet and beat Ah6h. Or maybe the caller would have just given up and checked it back. I don't remember if he mentioned what his river plan was in the call with Bart.
Didn't watch this particular stream, so I didn't know the hand yet. I was thinking Js Qs and maybe 10s with either hearts or spade in hand. This is a call all day long with Ah6h.
the only time I consider folding this is if it is a tight Nit and even then .....
The hand I'd be most worried would be As9s which is one of the hands that gets here like this at the end.
Binge watching on the way to Biloxi. Thanks for all the videos Bart. I've got an angling floor call in NC from Harrahs Cherokee.
What kind of logic assumes that he potentially folds hearts on the turn but calls spades. If we are afraid to call here we should probably reconsider if we are comfortable in these stakes
I think it's a very clear call assuming the villain is capable of bluffing. He can bluff with hearts , pocket 10s, pocket jacks, something weird like j8s or 10/9 s, it's clear that this river is bad for our range so it's very possible to face many unorthodox bluffs.
Yep. This was an absolutely ridiculous nit roll from hero. Any other competent player is thinking 5 seconds and flicking a chip in. We’re simply too high up in range and V is too wide as played , especially with the stream dynamic and the lack of aggression on turn.
Well, I disagree that it was “ridiculous”, but you’re right I’m never folding in that spot. I thought for maybe a minute to make sure I wasn’t missing something obvious.
Well played by both.
Liked just for title of video alone
The result of this hand for the caller is pretty much max EV. He got lucky in 2 ways: 1 - He cold 3bet with Ah6H pre-flop and his opponent believed his JJ was likely behind. 2 - The flop is gin for his actual hand. That means he can keep betting with some back up plan incase his Neeme is not a full believer just yet. 3 - He hit the perfect river for his actual hand. 4 - Neeme had the awareness to know what his perceived range was and that at this point, he likely wasn't good with his actual hand, so he decided to represent what the caller was holding.
I watched this live stream. Andrew turned JJ into a bluff and got stacked. I knew it was coming before he did it.
I think it's better to call the river bet with a set of 9s than to call with A6 of hearts when you block the missed nut flush draws.
I was expecting J-8 or 10-8 of hearts here as a bluff. But those might fold preflop.
I would call with 99 also. It seems like the bluff is representing a flush here, or maybe the top end straight JT. So I don't know if I agree with caller that AA is an auto-muck here. I'm not sure I see the difference between callers small straight or a set or AA. I mean, is this really ever 77 from Neeme? Villain seems very polarized with this line.
I think this is a pretty well played hand by both players to be honest, and even though he ran into a straight at the end, I really like the bluff with the double straight blockers and with a spade, like hero said, red aces or kings are almost always going in the muck.
I hate the flop play. The caller says he's betting his range; but this board doesn't hit 3-bet range. So you're really only repping over-pairs. So you should ask what you'd do with QQ here. You should be betting more than 25% on the flop.
I’m the caller. I’m betting my entire range small in this spot. How much would you bet?
We are too high up in our range, have to call this one
Agreed
damn I thought Andrew was the hero the whole time 😂 i was so confused when the graphics showed him betting on the river. I thought it was going to be some kind of “twist” where he was telling the story from villains pov or something
I’m a simple man, I see Andrew Neeme, I click.
Free roll sounds lit
Thank God he called. I would have lost my shit.
Andrew N. always looks like a complete MisReg! 😂
So does Brad
whats a misreg?
@@davidstud3952 miserable regular
@@davidstud3952miserable regular
It's a tough spot but instinctively I would call, the only problem is like you talked about is what are his bluffs... But still it's on the live stream. It's a gangster line to bluff on but Neeme still played it quite weird. I would call but I couldn't justify it on theory really, it's just that there isn't much value and not many bluffs. So it's just about feeling for me.
Do u guys also thinks it was an unnecessary bluff? He does beat some flushdraws. Also hero said he was prepared to fire the river
Oooooowned. 😃☝️
Hey guys. I feel dumb but why should we defend 50% of our range to a pot size bet, if we have a 1:2 pot odds, meaning we need to win 33% of the time. Can someone explain, please?
If only 33% of your range beats villain's range so you have to call 50% of your range vs a pot size bet in order to be EV 0. Just assumptions of how many bluffs villain has that defines how high in your range you have to call.
@@clementl.784 The idea is that if you're folding more than 50% of the time vs. a pot-sized bet, the villain can auto-profit by making the bet, which you don't want to allow. Let's say you fold 60% of your combos to a pot-sized bet... now villain auto-profits 20% of the pot in the long run by making that bet.
Not jamming but leaving himself 900 is also genius because even if your bluff gets called, you are never gonna get raised there by any hand except the nut flush
Before reveal....
All his spades that are lower are double draws like JTss. Axss there are ~5 combos assuming he 3bs ATss+.
As for hearts he has less combos. Maybe JThh, QThh, KThh....
He isn't doing this with 2 pairs or sets.
He could have a 6x hand.
The thing here is that our hero bet really large OTT. He really doesn't have odds to call there for a naked FD. He likely has the Axss low or busted hearts.
This would really depends on how much I know the villain. He is s pro so he has a bluffing range. But does he have enough of one to call?
In my games I would lean on folding as pros aren't this complicated with balance. But this is different. I would bluff at this board against the hero.
The only other thing I spotted here is that Neeme seemed comfortable on the flop with a 5s decision, uncomfortable OTT with a 7s decision. This really depends on his 3b range in this game. In my games his turn behavior leads to NOT a FD as most players will quickly call.
He also left some money behind which is a strategy when you are bluffing large to lose a little less.
We assume he is balanced also. If I saw him calling raises with odd hands like say Q9s in this spot. I'd lean on calling. I don't know how loose he plays.
It is a theoretically optimal bluff, but I wouldn't be surprised of in the long run it loses money.
Andrew "The Competent Villain" Neeme, lol. Catchy, but no "Vlogfather".
This can just simply never be a fold against a competent player. This is 100% villain’s card from a range perspective, so we can never fold when we actually have the type of hand our opponent is repping. We might chop with value. Sure we lose to flushes but that’s just life in this spot.
I’m the hero in this hand. I’m not sure what kind of games you play in, but in my regular 2/5/+10 game, I’m snap folding this spot all day against 80% of the field, and printing money doing it.
So Andrew is not that nitty any more, good for him!
I wish I didn't live in a communist state of washington. Used to play all the time. How does one get around the stupid law
VPN bruv❤
If villain has 6.9K you are 6.9K effective… this feels like some sort of inside joke at this point and someone please tell me if it is
This caller corrected himself pretty quickly. But yes, people don't understand effective stack meaning.
I like your hat Sleepy
Thanks! I have 100+ baseball caps and get more comments on that one than any other.
Poker becomes unbeatable when u play vs guys like Andrew, Brad and so on. Keyis to play vs waaay waay worse opposition than yourself.
But does Andrew ever play strong hand like this? The hands he’s repping on the river all take a different lines if think
QJss could make sense. T9ss could make sense. 56ss.
At 12:20 Bart says, "He's either bluffing, or he has you beaten."
That just made me laugh, because this is my analysis so often.
Understatement of the decade.
Or same hand.
Yeah its a good bluff by villain imo. Have to call as hero as well, so unlikely hero has a 6.
How gangster is Neeme when he is the "house" in his element at his honey hole lol money is flowing in all the time.
That would be news to me and my bank account 😂
Yes I’m quite sure Andrew cares about winning in these games, his equity in the Lodge notwithstanding.
MATCH MAY NOT HAPPEN AS IT IS RAINING HEAVILY. IT IS OVER. IT IS A DRAWWWWWWWWWWW!
Before the reveal I told myself TT or JJ w a S. Blocks flush and nut straights. All the Bart training is paying off :D
My instinct was that 10s and JJs are the best bluffs.
Horrible play by Andrew in my opinion (Yes great combo to bluff) but the runout was so bad for him but ESPECIALLY u…. Very easy for the overpairs u have to check back…. Why call turn if u think ur up against over pair then try and bluff them when u might be able to get off cheap?? Thoughts
It might go check check and u win sometimes but if u don't then why call turn????
shove river, not evev close
Um...I don't see why this is a good bet as a bluff by Neeme. It's a small bet compared to the pot. It's not going to get a lot of folds. What better hand is he trying to get to fold? Specifically AA, KK, and QQ? Nah, just take showdown value with JJ and check back.
Quarter pot size bet is garbage
I think you missed the correction notice. Caller misspoke. It was 350 into 1000, not 250.
@@EllieBanks333 eh either way he miss played flop, flop should be big bet or check
@@Caspergomezz I'm not a fan of the small sizing on flops either. They are very popular now though. Mostly because they are mathematically correct in multiway spots.
@@EllieBanks333 I also missed that flop was multi way, I would prefer check in that case
This was probably the most confusing mess of a hand you have ever posted.
I thougt Neeme was the caller.
I dont get it. Instant call on river for me. Caller stated its an agressive game where players reg making plays..dont know how you can consider folding..
Havent seen reveal yet
Ahh bart agreed with me ..good.
Caller was just a nit
Think you gotta make the crying call against a capable player
Playing 25/50 and doesn't know what effective means 👀👀🤭
This is all I could think of too 🤣
What does effective mean I’m new?
@@Stumpwater27 if two (or more) players are in a hand, only the player with the smallest stack’s stack size matters. if you have $1000 and i have $100, the effective stack is $100 since the most either of us can win or lose is $100. even though you have $1000, you can’t lose more than $100 since i can’t bet more than $100
@@DKMCC123 oh 10-4 so it’s just what’s being played for in the hand. Thanks man!
If he's bluffing whats the difference if you have red aces?
It blocks his Axs of hearts hands which become bluffs on the river, so he is now less likely to be bluffing.
If you have black aces it makes it less likely that villain made a flush, which makes it more likely villain is bluffing...including putting Axh into villain's range.
Its terrible