Okay real talk here from a 51 year old "Grognard" -- that 'Real D&D' was intended for Tournament play at Convention events -- combat meat grinders, mysteries, traps, and also goofy humor, puns, and the like. You earned 'points' for the RPGA by playing. (Kinda like real world experience) and those enabled you to build more powerful characters/get magic items in future Tournament games based on member level. And yet...after combat, you have games scored on things like : problem solving, exploration, role playing, and accomplishing objectives. So even in the 'old days' games were not intended as combat grind fests. 'Real' D&D includes some classic adventures that defined the game. Instead of obsessing over some supposed past ideal of the game , everyone should remember that the game is intended to be FUN ... then and now. ;)
And worse that is very much against lore. Beholders hate anything that isn't themself, and more so, they hate other beholders more than anything else in the world and will kill any they encounter.
The Neckbeard wasn't really even playing "real DnD" as Beholders hate eachother and would never work together much less a Lich. And a Lich would never use a beholder because of its ANTI-MAGIC cone.
Well, yeah. Wouldn't that...kinda kill the Lich? Or at least make it absolutely powerless until the beholder moved its gaze elsewhere if the unholy essence animating its body was too stubborn to leave upon having its powers nullified? But you're right, what should have happened there was at worst a free-for-all between the party and the beholders attacking each other and whoever was in reach, or the party briefly getting the tenuous 'trust' of one beholder for helping it kill its enemies. Granted...that trust would probably end in five minutes, but...at least it'd let you leave the room, provided you survived with its rather dubious help in the first place.
That first guy isn't even good at running the game he's trying to run. You want a grinder, that's fine. But it takes balance. There's an art to it, and you have to grasp statistical concepts like expected event.
I'm definitely with Doge in thinking that this guy can only have fun if he's power tripping, either by making a broken min max character and cheating to "win" DND, or by making a broken meat grinder to just slaughter PCs. I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if I found this guy on an r/I am very smart post. He just gives big "I play 4d chess" vibes.
Sounds like the guy just throws whatever sounds hard at the players and calls it a day. Because they’re not succeeding he thinks he’s running a challenging dungeon and doing a good job while their failures are their own. Hell, he even causes random encounters simply because he wants to move things along and thinks something is taking too long. His dungeon isn’t challenging, it’s unfair, and he clearly can’t balance the numbers and difficulty.
@@wisperingiron3646 Nah man, even the original Tomb of Horrors is fairer than this guy's campaign, if only because while the place was a deathtrap that screwed you over at every turn, it was at least lenient in the sense there wasn't much combat and a lot of traps can be bypassed by taking your time and being cautious. This guy's just a jerk with something to prove.
I personally believe it's more satisfying telling a DM that blatantly wants you to not have fun to piss off rather than endure what few good moments could be had in the campaign.
This. I cannot fathom how these people decide that enduring bullshit is worth a couple of good moments in a campaign. DnD can't be THAT important to them, can it?
I told a DM that before. He cept on trying to control the parties characters. Like telling us what to do and where to go. When there's something I could do to help the party or myself it gets shut down or it gets passed by because the DM and someone else is yacking an yacking. So I can't "go back " and do what I wanted to do. Than he say "well you should have spoken up". His go to interaction with me in the 2 campaigns we played was "your race is in a war with (X} race. The final straw for me was shortly after we started a 2nd campaign I came up with a epic background origin story for my character based around my class and race and the DMs (all of y'all was grew up in an orphanage and that's why y'all are friends). I was a Fire Genasi Paladin. It got shut down with the quickness with "Y'all Was All Orphans Nothing More and Nothing Less). That's when I told him he is controlling people characters top much, not letting anyone so anything they want or telling us what to do, and you let your friend get hammered and you don't say or do anything when he wants to bang and/or kill everything and everyone we meet. Than I told him that he is killing the fun of the game and I came here as a fun way to get away from everyday stress. Worse part is he was my cousin and gave me this big guilt trip of "we always play games together and I thought you would stick around with this and my wife thought you was going to be the main person to play all the time". He likes doing fun stuff like that but he kills the fun out of everything and when he don't want to play anymore it's I'm stuck not doing it or go off to do it myself. Like years ago he got me into playing Warhammer 40k. Not even a year after we started playing he wanted to get into Warhammer Fantasy (Age of Sigmar) and just because I wasn't on board that very second because I barely knew 1 game and had the funds to start another an didn't want to get into another game. So he pretty much didn't talk to me for a good while. Than later on he wanted to "play" again and I agreed but when we got to the gaming store he was trying to buy models for War Machines and when I got wind of what he was doing and I said no he got mad and stormed off to his truck and text or called me "are you coming I'm ready to go" an gave me the "you waisted my time, gas, an money coming up here today". A couple times after he tried to play 40k with me but it ended up being a fail for him because he be er stuck around learning the rules and I made friends in a few local gaming stores and got good at playing and my armies got bigger. So when we played again I pretty much crushed him every time and wanted to quit again. Later he saw me posting about my 40 army on Facebook and said "why are you still buying that stuff (WE) will never play again". Like just because he doesn't want to play that automatically mean I can't play. Actually come to think of it ever game we played or he got me into he ended up quitting on playing because I started getting good at it and learned the ins and outs of the game.
@@JoeXTheXJuggalo1 in my case the DM really made my blood boil with always countering the entire party and made super perverted "jokes" at my expense. I can't even begin to describe how aggravating it is to be told shit like "shut the fuck up or I'll nut (since UA-cam censors the real word) on your face"...right in front of my bf as we both get annoyed and tell him he's not funny. "But it's funny cause I'm straight" yeah sure buddy keep telling yourself that. Huff all that copium.
I once had a DM who treated normal towns like dungeons. Every 30 feet we had to roll for a random encounter, 4 or lower means no random encounter, 5 or higher means we encounter monsters, example: boars, skeletons, zombies, ghouls, giant snakes, and an aboleth on dry land. Also traps were freaking everywhere, and no matter how little sense it made for a freaking poison gas trap or an arrow trap to exist, they existed anyway, no matter what any of us said.
@@Redtail45044 Oh no, we asked if the town was under attack, used detect magic and stuff, and he was like "oh no this is just a normal town, people are walking around shopping at stores and stuff... roll initiative, you're being attacked by 3 basilisks and a hellhound". He did the same with the next town we walked into.
@@PaladinGear15 Indeed. That's...not how that works. Even in my runnings of a game called Dracones that's now how you play. But good lord, that's stupid on their part. Like people would allow that sort of thing in a town! As I said, maybe if it were a cursed city or something, then yes, stuff like that can happen, but a normal town? No. Noooo.
First story: Someone needs to tell this guy what the “RP” part of “RPG” stands for. Actually, maybe he needs the “G” part explained too, because he clearly doesn’t understand that games are supposed to be fun. He also doesn’t seem to know what real D&D is, because literally every edition’s PHBs say that it’s not a game about winning and losing, it’s a game about having fun making a story with your friends. I will never understand why the party humored him for as long as they did, but that touch at the end was absolutely genius. Second story: This is why I don’t drink and game. Obviously there’s nothing wrong with drinking a little, but if you’re getting so wasted it’s impeding your ability to play, there’s a problem. Third story: First of all, I do not envy Thirst the stomachache he’s going to have from chugging that much at once. Second of all, someone needs to teach these people some deescalating techniques. Physical violence should not be breaking out over soda. Fourth story: Yeah, that DM sucks. You can’t just kill a player character; you have to give them a chance to survive unless you agreed with that player to kill them off, and even then, it should be an epic death, not just “you got sick and died, lol.”
First story. Good lessons learned all around. The players learned that DM's are hosts offering the experience that THEY have prepared, not dancing monkeys who performing on command. And the DM learned that he's replaceable. Some players and some DM's are simply not good matches and I hope the DM in that story finds the players who are right for him. I'd suggest he start with emotionally needy masochists who want an experience undiluted by character development, story, exploration, and character investment.
For the first story, Neckbeard should have realized if people aren't having fun, they're not coming back for more. Or yes, they go play with another DM.
Not to mention his "Real" garbage blew up in his face in a fitting fashion! The problem with it is if the "Fake" that's "hated so much" is far more welcoming and fun then the Real! Then no one will care for the "real!" He wasn't a good "champion" for "REAL" DnD anyway! I guess that's a new tactic from "Fanboys" to hide the fact their not really that good and have a hate boner for Matt Mercer NOT because of the annoying Fanboys and Girls around him and Critical Role bothering others to be more like him, but because he's popular "and their not" (The fact no one even brought up Critical Role or "His Majesty Emperor Mercer" LOL but he did unwarranted is quite telling). Neckbeard should self analyze WHY people dislike him rather then go for the easily lie that "it's everyone else that's problem!" But there's a reason the Victim Mentality is such an easy solution for the weak-willed to go for.....and why I don't feel sorry for those who let it lead them to their ruination instead of trying to help themselves! And yeah Clownshow the idiot has the mentality that it's his job as the DM to beat the players! Otherwise a loser like himself has no worth in his own mind! It's why you see these's types get on the cases of DM who DON'T have this mentality (more funny when they then get VERY hissy when the DM they tell to "play DnD" right don't do THEM favors! The rules only apply to everyone but themselves! Cause really he complains about Player Agency when it comes to HIM, but won't do the same with his own players and prevents them from doing anything....the same thing he complained about the DM from the first story of doing to HIM! Though difference is he was being a POS and has shown he's STILL a POS! Likely didn't do Session 0 and scoffed at the concept cause he knows it exists to screen out POS like himself....BOTH WAYS as players can usually tell a BAD DM in Session 0 if the Scum DM screws up in trying to cover up their poor behavior! Something HE'S not good at nor bothers to HIDE!) A DM job is to make it fun for EVERYONE! POS and Assholes excluded cause's lets be real, they will never be satisfied, even if you cater to them completely cause they get short term pleasure in the suffering of others, which is just plan sad! Best to boot them then realize just how EVERYONE is having fun "WITHOUT THEM IN IT!" Finally noticing who the REAL problem was!! But DnD is not about DM vs Players! the DM would win naturally if this is true for they are GOD/Narrator! They are the Big Good and the Big Bad, but must be FAIR on both fronts! Not making it too easy, but not being too hard either! Players love it when they win from their effort with as little hand holding as possible. But a little bit of that is VERY much something that should be given EARLY ON especially to beginners trying to get in! Basically "throw the dog a bone" sort of deals. It's why the Souls From Software series was liked after all! They used the concept of "when you get a game over, it's more because it's YOUR fault then the games! Meaning you succeed by "git gud SON!" which is being taught then let off the leash! I won't expect someone who has never learned basic math to get what 6+2 is under 60 seconds! I do expect it if they were TAUGHT basic math BEFORE receiving the question under the time constraint though! That and I would never put others through what I myself would never put myself through or do! If I can't lift 70 pounds, I'm not expecting or force others to do the same out of consideration! IF they wish to do it of their will! Good on them, if not then I don't or won't force them! And since I'm the type to self-improve! I have no time for idiots like Neckbeard who don't want to do so and instead play the "everyone else is the problem" to short a life to play those stupid games that those who play it are destined to lose (cause in this case, he lost by the players doing the simple thing, dumping his ass and finding someone different and lo and behold it worked out for them and he's shocked cause his kind rely on people having no choice but to DEAL with him or have nothing....and when the nothing is better then an asshat, said asshat must realize but won't that their an unnecessary existence!)
@@mdalsted I'm willing to bet that Neckbeard went on RPGhorrorstories and wrote down a long diatribe about how "no player accepts his visions" and how "he tries to make an engaging world for them but they don't care"
Neck beard seems like he played early d&d and hated the game has gotten more accessible to casual games over the years. He remind me of a roommate I had who said that all video games after the advent of 3D aren’t real video games because they aren’t as challenging as the older generations of games. The kind you have to basically memorize the game to win.
Story 1: I DMed First Edition for years, and well enough to know that this insufferable clown was running a PARODY of Gygaxian D&D. By that, I mean he was using the old-school approach as a maul to beat the players, all with an air of smug condescension. I'm fully aware of Gygax's design philosophy, but even HE wrote of the destructive nature of the "killer dungeon" (HIS term, not mine; see the 1E DMG for reference). In short, running 1E WELL was a perpetual walk on a burning tightrope, between a perilous yet exciting challenge and calculated malice. Either unaware of contemptuous of this fact (I vote the latter), our ignorant neckbeard took all the fun from the game and strangled it.
About the first story: I knew that Neckbeard would pull something like that. I think he became the DM and made that terrible campaign as a retaliation to the players and DM for not let him has his way in the last one-shot campaign.
Story 1 “Rangers are useless” Pass Without Trace, Hunters Mark, some good skills in scouting, investigation and exploration… And then you have subclasses. Feywanderer is great for teleportation and being a face, Gloom Stalker is fucking terrifying, Swarm Keeper is fun, and Monster Slayer is pretty good too. Also Ranged damage is pretty consistent. Is it a powerhouse? No. But Rangers have some great tools under their belts to make them great, versatile party members.
I love playing ranger. Definitely my favorite class. Personally am playing a gloomstalker right now. I agree. Rangers get a bad rep because they aren’t powerhouses but they can be a good jack of all trades in situations where you have a smaller group and need a mix of Druid, rogue, and just general martial class. They also easily have perception as a skill you can pick up right from the beginning and that’s always a goodie to have. Paired with a race that needs less rest than most, this can make them very good night watchers, especially in smaller parties. Seriously love playing rangers. My focus on using the long bow also helps my group with the issue of flying enemies too.
@@mentalrebllion1270 I say this as a paladin lover-we are shit against flying enemies. If we want any small chance with flying enemies-we either need to multiclass with Warlock or Sorceror, or take up the feat that gives us the cantrips. That or take up the blessed warrior fighting style and pick up Sacred Flame cantrip. Rangers though? You just gotta pew pew.” Also Zephyr Strike and Steel Wind Strike are on the ranger list and they are excellent.
@@starbird3939 yup, we have a Paladin and my entire job is to back him up for instances like that. Our Warlock/cleric and wizard help with distance spells and mid range and also pulling fliers down. I also use some of my Druid based spells to help there too.
Yeah, usually when I hear someone having issues with Ranger it's not an issue with the class itself, but more with a player who is trying to use it in a way where it just would have made more sense for them to be a Fighter with Archery as their chosen fighting style and the Outlander background. They chose it for the "flavor" of what a Ranger brings to mind, not to actually utilize what makes it its own class.
Had to double check to see what the first story was pt.2 to and turns out it's the story of a Rogue neckbeard getting trapped in a marble. Dude is obviously salty and (wrongly) thought he could do better
Three beholders for a level 1 or 2 party? Hell, I just had a level 11 character in my game die to a single beholder. I doubt he would like playing his game either. He was just having a gatekeeping power trip.
“We play real dnd.” He says immediately after sending 3 beholders at a party too low to stand a chance against 1. REAL dnd seeks to accomplish the goal of providing fun and entertainment to anyone participating, not to constantly punish players because they either can’t plan for everything or are too low to handle the monsters he’s throwing at them. Glad the players threw him to the curb.
As someone who loves Fernet con Coca, I'd be incredibly pissed if that happened to me even before all that stuff went down lol And straight Fernet is pretty bitter, I've seen people even mix it with water soda to dilute it a bit
So, did no one bother to tell the neckbeard what the "RP" in "TTRPG" stands for, or did he just roll up a random encounter every time someone tried to?
I understand neckbeards need to what I presume is competitive D&D (because that mindset reminds me of competitive gaming) but D&D is a game and many people forget the definition of a game is supposed to be fun or entertaining.
Hey man I appreciate these videos. I hate reading the horror stories Reddit honestly, but I like having this in the background so I can listen daily. I've also been that guy with drinking too much in a session or two.
Running a meat grinder campaign the way Neckbeard was trying to is fine and all. High combat, high stakes, death a frequent occurrence and little to no plot is the way a lot of games were run back in the day. But everyone needs to be on the same page in the kind of game they want to play, and that clearly wasn't it in this story. Also there is being a tough game and the DM going on a power trip by throwing beholders at a level 2 part, then saying it's their fault for losing an unwinnable fight. Even for a meat grinder game there needs to be a chance. The players were totally right in moving on to another game, and Neckbeard should totally not be surprised that people didn't want to play in his personal ego stroking session.
Story 1 See? This is why I don’t care for meat grinders. No rp’ing, asshole DM’s who rather bully players, and no real connection. Also I love the players were just “Oh? Is this Real DND? Well then, let’s play Fake DND then!”
I love throwing difficult encounters/dungeons/whatever but I always make sure it's achievable and if they start going downhill there's an ex-machina in place. Npc decides party isn't worth their time and leaves, npc decides oh crap I think I'm losing and bails, npc loses track of target and picks new target for some inexplicable reason causing them to take attacks of opportunity... you get the idea, you want the players to feel like they've earned their win if it's meant to be a stronger encounter, push their limits but give them an out too.
On second viewing of Story #1 I can see this is the clear split between Old School D&D and New D&D. The Player telling the story only complains about the game rules being difficult, not how they did or did not solve the problems. Usually I see some triumphant way for players or GMs to get back at a bad person. This story is instead "New Players hate Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, fire Dungeon Master without telling him, and mock him when he shows up for session #2". Are they supposed to be the good guys of the story? This seems like a Horror Story about Players. Sigh, everyone is the hero of their own story.
OH, Neckbeard who you prove you know nothing about D&D and are just doing what you! find fun, Beholders Never group up they are too paranoid they will get betrayed. last story, no saving throw for a plague, remember your playing Warhammer and Papa Nurgle loves us all.
In the first story, the DM in question didn’t seem to grasp how dungeons could have a social gameplay element to them. The dungeon, more often than not, isn’t just a series of random rooms where mindless sacks of HP stand around, they’re environments where living (or unliving) creatures live. If he’d let his players try some social finagling with the dungeon inhabitants they encountered, instead of just going “either fight or flee!”, they probably could have had a lot more fun and, possibly, made the dungeon easier. Also, there’s letting players get into unwinnable situations and die due to their own mistakes and letting the dice fall where they may, and then there’s whatever this guy considers “challenging.” 3 beholders as a random encounter is nonsense. All in all, this guy doesn’t seem to have a very good grasp of how to run a good dungeon crawl campaign. And he seemed like kind of a bitter asshole, at that.
So, it looks like I have to be the guy that points out that Royale ends with an E. It is a tiny little detail, but it didn't take away from mental image of that glorious nerd fight.
So neck beard wanted "real D&D" ahhhh. I like guys like this as players. He clearly just wants to power trip. This is when you walk away if he's the DM. I like to get these guys as players though. Oh, got your minmaxed character with all over 15 rolls? Yeah, I expect him to get killed in session one. Roll a new character. Session two? Only neck beard will be rolling a new character, trust me. Session three? Oh, I'm making him fill out a huge backstory for this character, lots of detail, and then killing him immediately. He will reroll at least 4 characters that session. He'll get his "Real" D&D. But ONLY him. Everyone else will have a good time. But he will be utterly savaged. Is it picking on him? Yes. But the lesson must be taught, and it is learned through experience. "Don't worry neck beard. Difficulty is exactly what you want. You want real D&D. YOU will get your "Real" D&D. The others will actually have fun. You? Well, you will ensure that it's ME who has fun"
See, half of this really isn't a problem. Random encounters are absolutely part of the game and keep things lively. The world doesn't need to be perfectly balanced around the players, that doesn't make sense. But 'monsters don't talk?' Yeah no. If you're going to start making use of old school design elements like random encounters, not balancing counts around players, and your encounters being designed to drain resources and the rest (a personal favorite mode of play for me) then you have to start including reaction rolls and not no-sell every single option the players come up with. D&D shouldn't just be about combat, at low level one of your best tricks is creatively *avoiding* combat or setting it up so that the combat is in your favor before you've rolled initiative. So much of this is shit new players whine about without understanding the basics of a game where you don't get major main character syndrome and plot armor. . . But man, this guy needs to read his audience and consider options. If the players come up with something creative, you're gonna need to give them some leeway. To be honest, I think the neckbeard has some points here. . . But man his social skills are completely lacking. And "Play to win" is a ridiculous thing. There's a difference between a tough DM and an adversarial power-gaming DM . As far as random encounters: If you roll something out of the party's ability (like, more than a little bit) you don't jump straight to that encounter, you start to foreshadow it and give them every opportunity for an out. It's not a videogame with limited render distance that just spawns enemies at a node right around the corner in a cheap trick.
I'm surprised the neckbeard didn't just dismiss the players as scrubs who couldn't handle a real challenge. That's usually what happens when people complain about a video game being too difficult, and it's a pet peeve of mine. Harder isn't always better, people. Too easy is boring, sure, but too hard is boring and frustrating, and nobody likes to feel frustrated. I can definitely empathize with the players preferring "fake D&D."
I’ve seen ridiculous odds before, 2 bugbears, 2 bugbear chiefs, an orc barbarian as wave 1, wave 2 3 actions later, a houseruled Behir with on death 50 ft cone breath weapon, followed by 2 young dragons and after that the session ended with 2 waves left but I didn’t return.
There shouldn't have been a Behir there-they absolutely HATE dragons. They will go out of their way to leave an area that has them should its extreme efforts not work to drive them out, will not work with them, and even attempt to kill them on sight if they think they can get away with it. Having two dragons as part of the assault with a Behir would probably have seen the Behir teaming up with the party just to kill the dragons it knew were coming next.
Drunk ranger me of an episode of MASH (Alcoholics Unanimous Season 3, Episode 9, for those following along at home), went a little something like this (Obligatory Inbound Wall o' Text Warning, whole scene takes about two minutes on the show): Frank, as acting commander, had just banned alcohol from the camp. He ordered everyone to listen to Father Mulcahy's sermon on the evils of booze. Mulcahy was nervous due to the big crowd, so Klinger calmed him down with a lil' somethin' somethin'. Mulcahy's sermon went to the tune of: "My friends, let me to quote from Leviticus 10: 'Do not drink wine or strong drink thou, nor thy sons with thee, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die. It shall be a statue forever, throughout your generations.' My friends, the Lord said this to Aaron after the passing of his beloved sons, Nadib and Abahoo.'" he begins to sway a bit, "It's rather warm in here...Radar, could you open one of the stained glass windows? (Radar starts to get up, looking very confused before sitting back down) My friends, let me quote Leviticus chapter 10. Do not drink wine, or strong drink thou, nor thy sons with thee..." At this point Hawkeye chimes in with a "We saw this one..." "Let me tell you something, however compulsory it may be: There's no film, I'm live. Now back to where we were, when you last heard from me. It was it was with Leviticus on the 10th I believe. 'Drink thee not, nor thee, thou sons, lest ye die, nor congregate at the corner tabernacle.' I'd like to take a short sabbatical, or a cup of coffee, or I wonder is there a doctor in the tent?" After a fight breaks out and the 18th Amendment gets repealed, he ends with: "Did I ever tell you folks the one about the Prodigal Son?" All in all, one of my favorites from the season. Why do I bring it up? Because I very much picture the drunk ranger as William Christopher now, and that's my headcanon. "Jocularity! Jocularity!"
My husband has ALSO been told he's not allowed to drink during TTRPGs, lol. None of us like to play with him after more than one beer because he's the same kind of useless as OP's friend... Now we play first and party second.
First one does not pass the sniff test, for me. I do not think that happened; ends with a random dm being OK with showing up to tweek some random dude they do not know, which I read as "then they all stood up and clapped." Not sure if there was some truth to it or not; the dm here is a cartoonist stereotype who did every old school gaming trope. Finding another dm willing to thumb their nose at some rando, finding another dm that quickly in general, the witty quips the players make while the dm is caught flat footed, the dm arguing in one scene for an extended period but not firing back when the pacing was right for the good guys to win, and fact that the op kept trying to back lead a beer and prezles game (they leveled up between sessions) makes me think this did not happen as stated. The game actually sounds fun if you are into old school play. It is OK if you are into that sort of thing; no back story, life being cheap, and unbalanced encounters are hallmarks to that sort of play. He was probably using exploration turns, and every time you dottle you get an encounter to put more tension on the players and encourage people to act quickly; dungeons are dangerous obstacles courses in that style of play and OP just seems not into it. OP said they leveled up between sessions, so they probably leveled up fast and the random encounters are to keep you from farming exp by avoiding danger. Unbalanced encounters are fun; they encourage out of the box thinking which is where most Old School style play shines. IE, you cannot kill the skeletal warrior, but you are surrounded by lethal traps; try pushing them into one, pick pocketing the key you need, or turning them. OP complains that the scenarios were meat grinders, but does not describe any solution in the story than running up and hitting it aside from the final tpk where they got boxed in. Totally a jerk move to make someone drive out for a game, prep a game, and show up with another dm at their regular table. You wasted a lot of their time and purposefully tried to anger them. Could have just said you would not go back... OP says the game was not unfair, just lethal and difficult, so the dm seemed to be trying to run a fun game here; they just had different ideas of what fun is. Seems oddly petty.
Nan, I half grew up with the og power rangers! A lot of the stuffy was cheesy as hell. But as someone who enjoyed the Adam West batman show when I could watch it at my grandparents' place, (I had no cable, they did), I bared it and got hyped everytime they morphed and called for the zords!
Difference between Bulk and Skull and the Coke Fighters is that Bulk and Skull went through an arch of going from Bullies to Heroes. In the Finale of Power Rangers in Space, Bulk and Skull are the ones to rally the people to fight the invaders when it seemed that the Rangers had abandoned them. The Coke Fighters most likely went on being shitty people to this day. At best, they're friendly but horrible if you go more than skin deep.
Now to be fair, that meat grinder game style was how dnd was originally ran, and there is a reason why it isnt anymore, and yes it can still be fun if eveyone is there for it. Where are we? Dungeon. Why? To kill monsters. Why? Loot. Why do we want the loot? Well because back then you gained experience based on gold, that and the game was more inspired by the old conan novels as opposed to the Lord of the Rings, which it would turn toward in later iterations. You can absolutely have a blast with that old game play style, but a crap dm is still a crap dm. A few of the worst dms are using elements from the old iterations of the game, just poorly inolemented, that and there is a reason for them no longer being a part of the game.
High lethality games are fine. I feel like people are primed to make lethality into a horror story but it's a way of playing the game but you've kind of got to help players out a little. Help them learn the style. Tell them what to expect. Plus, high lethality does not mean adversarial. In fact, the Old School would say that the DM ought to be a neutral arbitrator. However, people act like unfair combat encounters are sinful. It's a part of the Old School style that balance is not really a thing. Running away is a valid strategy. That guy did mess up though when he said they couldn't talk to the monsters. Most old school monsters can talk and are not immediately hostile
So this is one of the few times I'm only gonna partially disagree. That style DnD can be fun but only if you have people playing that style of D and D. That's reminiscent of the old chainmail and The Gary guygax days where it really was players versus GM. Don't get me wrong the neck beard is still an idiot for trying to force it down other player's throats in a way that really didn't make anyone happy. If he wants to run that style of DnD then honestly he needs to go and post looking for old school Gary gygax style players to play cut throat dungeon crawl
Let me add that having played both versions I much prefer newer DnD. Younger generations brought new ideas to the game system and made it better for me at least.
If you want a grinder game run Tomb of Horror.... the Entire thing is a masochist dream of pain and suffering...it's literally a troll campaign that the players are designed to fail.
I like meatgrinder dungeons but Neckbeard is just a bad DM...awful actually. I would not play with such a person. Encounter balance? Not for my players and me. We create characters and they go into the world. My players (as their characters) do research and ask about the legends and lore of a region. Don't want to encounter a dragon? Don't go into an area where one is rumored to be. Why would low level players agree to go after a lich anyhow. Now, full disclosure, my group and l do not play D&D anymore. I started in 1981 at 1st edition and quit at 2nd edition. We play Fantasy Hero (no levels just skills and powers, no constantly rising hit points an no stacking on more armor to be harder to be hit) and we love it. To each their own. Just avoid bad Neckbeard DMs and find a group and game you like.
Yes! Yes! Yes! (Insert footage of commenter jumping to his feet, fist pumping and howling like a maniac) (30 seconds later next apartment wall thumps several times - a code me and my neighbors have that means "Quiet Down in There!). Finally, someone, player or DM getting called on their bullshit, and gets to truly suck on the concept "YOUR'E FIRED!".
We know what Cyberpunk is supposed to look like cos the book is pretty on-point about how to run it, so it's easy to spot out the 'real' Cyberpunk players who should be avoided.
*Three beholders have entered the room* Uhhh... We...try to dodge around and let them infight, Doom style? We're level 2, there's no way we're taking even one of them. Besides, something tells me that DM wasn't interested in RPing homebrewed Souls style combat.
Ah, the fellow was following the oldest, original version of the game-ergo, when the DM was supposed to make the game as hard as possible for the party, and it was the party's job to beat the DM at his own game-both basically fighting against each other. It could be fun if done well, but my experiences back then suggest that it definitely isn't for many these days. It made you far, far more careful, what with the insanely low health pools, the more vicious monsters, and the fact that the puzzles could be downright fiendish if you weren't paying attention...not to mention the fact that many traps could be instantly fatal. And yet...if you managed to win... Oh, did it feel rewarding. Intensely so. All the suffering, all the paranoia, all the effort-paying off as the game ends. Sometimes even losing felt rewarding, but that would depend on how well the game went. These days? It's a bit too rough for a lot of players.
The "bit too rough for a lot of players" part is what sets a lot of people like that off. Back in the days of the Gary Gigax era, that was how D&D most likely was and that guy was probably a Gigaxian himself who preferred "real D&D" AKA 1st and 2nd edition. I ran the 5e port of Tomb of Horrors a couple years back and it was pretty rough for the players, but it was still remarkably fun because, well, it was actually designed with fun in mind and rewarded you for making clever observations while also laying deadly traps for those who are too careless. That neckbeard was trying to emulate what the Gigaxian era was like, but he was doing it all wrong. Even the fucking hardcore Tomb of Horrors THAT HAD A ROOM WHERE YOU FUCKING DIE IF YOU FALL ASLEEP was way more lenient with it's players because it didn't have a goddamn random encounter for "dilly-dallying" for too long trying to figure out the illusion puzzle. It was rough, sure, but my players came out of that entire experience HAVING FUN despite that dungeon just being a massive "fuck you." The gigaxian era playstyle isn't too rough for the players, let me tell you. What's too rough for the players is some power-tripping dipshit who thinks "difficulty" equates to using high levelled monsters en masse and being smug every time a player springs a trap that was probably put there on the spot just to "show them." That neckbeard was not playing real D&D. He was playing D&D of the most false variety.
@@joshuawiener5003 The thing is, that *isn't* how Gygax ran D&D either. Tomb of Horrors was a specific kind of adventure for a specific kind of player, and comes with a massive disclaimer at the start that unless you have very investigative and creative players who enjoy assessing a situation before going into it, they won't have fun. Gygax also said things along the lines of the GM shouldn't be trying to kill characters, they should be creating situations where bad decisions will do it for them. That's why I don't like people like in this story, they've entirely missed the point of what they claim they're trying to emulate.
Not that I want to sound like a jerk, but story 2 group, what in the flip are you even doing? You have a guy that YOU ALL KNOW is a lightweight drinker and he brought a bottle of whiskey along, he downs one glass, then two, and so on. What are you all doing? Twiddling your thumbs? Da flak group 2. If you know they can't handle the drink, don't let them have full control of the bottle, you should control how much they drink. I knew that even before I was old enough to drink for crying out loud.
Story One: This isn’t _D&D,_ it’s fucking _Diablo._ EDIT: Finding a new DM without telling the old DM everyone was dropping his (crap) game was a dick move though.
There is no 'real dnd' Dnd is what you as a group make it. 8t's one of the many draws of the game. To be and do virtually anything and everything. I've seen better campaigns than a lot of modern TV shows and movies.
This Neckbeard sounds like just that a neckbeard of the worst kind. I have played tomb of Horrors which he was basically doing with a different setting, it is a meatgrinder of the worst kind. It's a module for the players to see how long they can make a character last and even optimize builds for other setting and for DM to rack up kills. You will live longer in classic Ravenloft than horrors or this neckbeard DND. Also playing DM vs players is never fun neither is the reverse. I personally dont try to make meat grinder campaigns as they are no fun for character building and well having fun. while do not hand my players things on a silver platter neither do i straight up merc them for lols i have been playing for nearly 3 decades started with 2nd edition. I have enough house rules to not really need most books except to keep new players from freaking out. I want players to have rich deep backstories so i can add flavor to the world and have things that make them more interested. That said I am not perfect I have my faults and blind spots but holy hell...... not like this.
Oh Alice is so beautiful, perfect tabby markings. Don't worry sweetie, I liked the video. Remember don't drink and roll. Thanks for the week of cringe Doge, see you next week!
D&D is not a win or lose proposition. And anyone with that mindset is failing at D&D. For that idiot to call that unfair meat grinder "real D&D" is really pointless.
Okay real talk here from a 51 year old "Grognard" -- that 'Real D&D' was intended for Tournament play at Convention events -- combat meat grinders, mysteries, traps, and also goofy humor, puns, and the like. You earned 'points' for the RPGA by playing. (Kinda like real world experience) and those enabled you to build more powerful characters/get magic items in future Tournament games based on member level.
And yet...after combat, you have games scored on things like : problem solving, exploration, role playing, and accomplishing objectives. So even in the 'old days' games were not intended as combat grind fests.
'Real' D&D includes some classic adventures that defined the game. Instead of obsessing over some supposed past ideal of the game , everyone should remember that the game is intended to be FUN ... then and now. ;)
'3 beholders enter the room'
Sir, we are level 2
3 beholders have enter the chat.
Me: I'm out.
And worse that is very much against lore. Beholders hate anything that isn't themself, and more so, they hate other beholders more than anything else in the world and will kill any they encounter.
@@REfan2002
3 Beholders have entered the chat
Me: *Leaves the chat*
Evil is in the eye of the beholder, so never look a beholder in the eye.
I burst out laughing at "fake D&D". I love it.
The Neckbeard wasn't really even playing "real DnD" as Beholders hate eachother and would never work together much less a Lich. And a Lich would never use a beholder because of its ANTI-MAGIC cone.
Three Beholdera hanging out in a Lich's castle? Crazy
I mean I could maybe see a lesser Beholder as a guarddog.
But that's about it.
Honestly his dungeon reads like "Tomb of Horror" from wish..
Well, yeah. Wouldn't that...kinda kill the Lich? Or at least make it absolutely powerless until the beholder moved its gaze elsewhere if the unholy essence animating its body was too stubborn to leave upon having its powers nullified?
But you're right, what should have happened there was at worst a free-for-all between the party and the beholders attacking each other and whoever was in reach, or the party briefly getting the tenuous 'trust' of one beholder for helping it kill its enemies. Granted...that trust would probably end in five minutes, but...at least it'd let you leave the room, provided you survived with its rather dubious help in the first place.
That first guy isn't even good at running the game he's trying to run. You want a grinder, that's fine. But it takes balance. There's an art to it, and you have to grasp statistical concepts like expected event.
I'm definitely with Doge in thinking that this guy can only have fun if he's power tripping, either by making a broken min max character and cheating to "win" DND, or by making a broken meat grinder to just slaughter PCs. I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if I found this guy on an r/I am very smart post. He just gives big "I play 4d chess" vibes.
Sounds like the guy just throws whatever sounds hard at the players and calls it a day. Because they’re not succeeding he thinks he’s running a challenging dungeon and doing a good job while their failures are their own. Hell, he even causes random encounters simply because he wants to move things along and thinks something is taking too long. His dungeon isn’t challenging, it’s unfair, and he clearly can’t balance the numbers and difficulty.
No... See, guy knows what game he wants to run... The players dont want to play that way.
Sounds like he grew up with AD&D, where it was much more DM vs. Player
@@wisperingiron3646 Nah man, even the original Tomb of Horrors is fairer than this guy's campaign, if only because while the place was a deathtrap that screwed you over at every turn, it was at least lenient in the sense there wasn't much combat and a lot of traps can be bypassed by taking your time and being cautious.
This guy's just a jerk with something to prove.
I personally believe it's more satisfying telling a DM that blatantly wants you to not have fun to piss off rather than endure what few good moments could be had in the campaign.
This. I cannot fathom how these people decide that enduring bullshit is worth a couple of good moments in a campaign. DnD can't be THAT important to them, can it?
I told a DM that before. He cept on trying to control the parties characters. Like telling us what to do and where to go. When there's something I could do to help the party or myself it gets shut down or it gets passed by because the DM and someone else is yacking an yacking. So I can't "go back " and do what I wanted to do. Than he say "well you should have spoken up". His go to interaction with me in the 2 campaigns we played was "your race is in a war with (X} race. The final straw for me was shortly after we started a 2nd campaign I came up with a epic background origin story for my character based around my class and race and the DMs (all of y'all was grew up in an orphanage and that's why y'all are friends). I was a Fire Genasi Paladin. It got shut down with the quickness with "Y'all Was All Orphans Nothing More and Nothing Less). That's when I told him he is controlling people characters top much, not letting anyone so anything they want or telling us what to do, and you let your friend get hammered and you don't say or do anything when he wants to bang and/or kill everything and everyone we meet. Than I told him that he is killing the fun of the game and I came here as a fun way to get away from everyday stress.
Worse part is he was my cousin and gave me this big guilt trip of "we always play games together and I thought you would stick around with this and my wife thought you was going to be the main person to play all the time". He likes doing fun stuff like that but he kills the fun out of everything and when he don't want to play anymore it's I'm stuck not doing it or go off to do it myself. Like years ago he got me into playing Warhammer 40k. Not even a year after we started playing he wanted to get into Warhammer Fantasy (Age of Sigmar) and just because I wasn't on board that very second because I barely knew 1 game and had the funds to start another an didn't want to get into another game. So he pretty much didn't talk to me for a good while. Than later on he wanted to "play" again and I agreed but when we got to the gaming store he was trying to buy models for War Machines and when I got wind of what he was doing and I said no he got mad and stormed off to his truck and text or called me "are you coming I'm ready to go" an gave me the "you waisted my time, gas, an money coming up here today". A couple times after he tried to play 40k with me but it ended up being a fail for him because he be er stuck around learning the rules and I made friends in a few local gaming stores and got good at playing and my armies got bigger. So when we played again I pretty much crushed him every time and wanted to quit again. Later he saw me posting about my 40 army on Facebook and said "why are you still buying that stuff (WE) will never play again". Like just because he doesn't want to play that automatically mean I can't play. Actually come to think of it ever game we played or he got me into he ended up quitting on playing because I started getting good at it and learned the ins and outs of the game.
@@JoeXTheXJuggalo1 in my case the DM really made my blood boil with always countering the entire party and made super perverted "jokes" at my expense. I can't even begin to describe how aggravating it is to be told shit like "shut the fuck up or I'll nut (since UA-cam censors the real word) on your face"...right in front of my bf as we both get annoyed and tell him he's not funny.
"But it's funny cause I'm straight" yeah sure buddy keep telling yourself that. Huff all that copium.
@@JoeXTheXJuggalo1
Oof. I'm guessing you and the other players don't play with him anymore.
I'm glad there was a continuation for the neckbeard story. It's annoying when people allude to more stories and they never materialize.
Ain't that the truth!
I once had a DM who treated normal towns like dungeons.
Every 30 feet we had to roll for a random encounter, 4 or lower means no random encounter, 5 or higher means we encounter monsters, example: boars, skeletons, zombies, ghouls, giant snakes, and an aboleth on dry land.
Also traps were freaking everywhere, and no matter how little sense it made for a freaking poison gas trap or an arrow trap to exist, they existed anyway, no matter what any of us said.
Clearly they didn't understand. Maybe if it was a cursed city that could be something, but...yeah. Not for the average town, though!
@@Redtail45044 Oh no, we asked if the town was under attack, used detect magic and stuff, and he was like "oh no this is just a normal town, people are walking around shopping at stores and stuff... roll initiative, you're being attacked by 3 basilisks and a hellhound".
He did the same with the next town we walked into.
"This town sucks, let's fucking leave."
his tables are wrong, but that's just Detroit for you.
@@PaladinGear15 Indeed. That's...not how that works. Even in my runnings of a game called Dracones that's now how you play. But good lord, that's stupid on their part. Like people would allow that sort of thing in a town!
As I said, maybe if it were a cursed city or something, then yes, stuff like that can happen, but a normal town? No. Noooo.
First story: Someone needs to tell this guy what the “RP” part of “RPG” stands for. Actually, maybe he needs the “G” part explained too, because he clearly doesn’t understand that games are supposed to be fun. He also doesn’t seem to know what real D&D is, because literally every edition’s PHBs say that it’s not a game about winning and losing, it’s a game about having fun making a story with your friends. I will never understand why the party humored him for as long as they did, but that touch at the end was absolutely genius.
Second story: This is why I don’t drink and game. Obviously there’s nothing wrong with drinking a little, but if you’re getting so wasted it’s impeding your ability to play, there’s a problem.
Third story: First of all, I do not envy Thirst the stomachache he’s going to have from chugging that much at once. Second of all, someone needs to teach these people some deescalating techniques. Physical violence should not be breaking out over soda.
Fourth story: Yeah, that DM sucks. You can’t just kill a player character; you have to give them a chance to survive unless you agreed with that player to kill them off, and even then, it should be an epic death, not just “you got sick and died, lol.”
First story. Good lessons learned all around. The players learned that DM's are hosts offering the experience that THEY have prepared, not dancing monkeys who performing on command. And the DM learned that he's replaceable. Some players and some DM's are simply not good matches and I hope the DM in that story finds the players who are right for him. I'd suggest he start with emotionally needy masochists who want an experience undiluted by character development, story, exploration, and character investment.
For the first story, Neckbeard should have realized if people aren't having fun, they're not coming back for more. Or yes, they go play with another DM.
For people like that, it's not about having fun. It's about 'beating' their players.
Not to mention his "Real" garbage blew up in his face in a fitting fashion! The problem with it is if the "Fake" that's "hated so much" is far more welcoming and fun then the Real! Then no one will care for the "real!"
He wasn't a good "champion" for "REAL" DnD anyway! I guess that's a new tactic from "Fanboys" to hide the fact their not really that good and have a hate boner for Matt Mercer NOT because of the annoying Fanboys and Girls around him and Critical Role bothering others to be more like him, but because he's popular "and their not" (The fact no one even brought up Critical Role or "His Majesty Emperor Mercer" LOL but he did unwarranted is quite telling).
Neckbeard should self analyze WHY people dislike him rather then go for the easily lie that "it's everyone else that's problem!" But there's a reason the Victim Mentality is such an easy solution for the weak-willed to go for.....and why I don't feel sorry for those who let it lead them to their ruination instead of trying to help themselves!
And yeah Clownshow the idiot has the mentality that it's his job as the DM to beat the players! Otherwise a loser like himself has no worth in his own mind! It's why you see these's types get on the cases of DM who DON'T have this mentality (more funny when they then get VERY hissy when the DM they tell to "play DnD" right don't do THEM favors! The rules only apply to everyone but themselves! Cause really he complains about Player Agency when it comes to HIM, but won't do the same with his own players and prevents them from doing anything....the same thing he complained about the DM from the first story of doing to HIM! Though difference is he was being a POS and has shown he's STILL a POS! Likely didn't do Session 0 and scoffed at the concept cause he knows it exists to screen out POS like himself....BOTH WAYS as players can usually tell a BAD DM in Session 0 if the Scum DM screws up in trying to cover up their poor behavior! Something HE'S not good at nor bothers to HIDE!)
A DM job is to make it fun for EVERYONE! POS and Assholes excluded cause's lets be real, they will never be satisfied, even if you cater to them completely cause they get short term pleasure in the suffering of others, which is just plan sad! Best to boot them then realize just how EVERYONE is having fun "WITHOUT THEM IN IT!" Finally noticing who the REAL problem was!! But DnD is not about DM vs Players! the DM would win naturally if this is true for they are GOD/Narrator! They are the Big Good and the Big Bad, but must be FAIR on both fronts! Not making it too easy, but not being too hard either! Players love it when they win from their effort with as little hand holding as possible. But a little bit of that is VERY much something that should be given EARLY ON especially to beginners trying to get in! Basically "throw the dog a bone" sort of deals. It's why the Souls From Software series was liked after all! They used the concept of "when you get a game over, it's more because it's YOUR fault then the games! Meaning you succeed by "git gud SON!" which is being taught then let off the leash! I won't expect someone who has never learned basic math to get what 6+2 is under 60 seconds! I do expect it if they were TAUGHT basic math BEFORE receiving the question under the time constraint though! That and I would never put others through what I myself would never put myself through or do! If I can't lift 70 pounds, I'm not expecting or force others to do the same out of consideration! IF they wish to do it of their will! Good on them, if not then I don't or won't force them! And since I'm the type to self-improve! I have no time for idiots like Neckbeard who don't want to do so and instead play the "everyone else is the problem" to short a life to play those stupid games that those who play it are destined to lose (cause in this case, he lost by the players doing the simple thing, dumping his ass and finding someone different and lo and behold it worked out for them and he's shocked cause his kind rely on people having no choice but to DEAL with him or have nothing....and when the nothing is better then an asshat, said asshat must realize but won't that their an unnecessary existence!)
@@AzriusN
Yeah. The DM was pretty clearly thinking only about himself. : /
@@mdalsted I'm willing to bet that Neckbeard went on RPGhorrorstories and wrote down a long diatribe about how "no player accepts his visions" and how "he tries to make an engaging world for them but they don't care"
"This is real DND." No this a neck beards power fantasy.
Neck beard seems like he played early d&d and hated the game has gotten more accessible to casual games over the years. He remind me of a roommate I had who said that all video games after the advent of 3D aren’t real video games because they aren’t as challenging as the older generations of games. The kind you have to basically memorize the game to win.
Story 1: I DMed First Edition for years, and well enough to know that this insufferable clown was running a PARODY of Gygaxian D&D. By that, I mean he was using the old-school approach as a maul to beat the players, all with an air of smug condescension. I'm fully aware of Gygax's design philosophy, but even HE wrote of the destructive nature of the "killer dungeon" (HIS term, not mine; see the 1E DMG for reference). In short, running 1E WELL was a perpetual walk on a burning tightrope, between a perilous yet exciting challenge and calculated malice. Either unaware of contemptuous of this fact (I vote the latter), our ignorant neckbeard took all the fun from the game and strangled it.
About the first story: I knew that Neckbeard would pull something like that. I think he became the DM and made that terrible campaign as a retaliation to the players and DM for not let him has his way in the last one-shot campaign.
I wonder how much of a train wreck the neckbeard story is. Edit: HOLY SHIT is the Neckbeard story is a trainwreck.
But DAMN if it didn't end beautifully. 🤣
It's like a whole Burlington Northern freight launching off a bridge into the darkness. Lol.
Story 1
“Rangers are useless”
Pass Without Trace, Hunters Mark, some good skills in scouting, investigation and exploration…
And then you have subclasses. Feywanderer is great for teleportation and being a face, Gloom Stalker is fucking terrifying, Swarm Keeper is fun, and Monster Slayer is pretty good too.
Also Ranged damage is pretty consistent.
Is it a powerhouse? No. But Rangers have some great tools under their belts to make them great, versatile party members.
I love playing ranger. Definitely my favorite class. Personally am playing a gloomstalker right now. I agree. Rangers get a bad rep because they aren’t powerhouses but they can be a good jack of all trades in situations where you have a smaller group and need a mix of Druid, rogue, and just general martial class. They also easily have perception as a skill you can pick up right from the beginning and that’s always a goodie to have. Paired with a race that needs less rest than most, this can make them very good night watchers, especially in smaller parties. Seriously love playing rangers. My focus on using the long bow also helps my group with the issue of flying enemies too.
@@mentalrebllion1270 I say this as a paladin lover-we are shit against flying enemies.
If we want any small chance with flying enemies-we either need to multiclass with Warlock or Sorceror, or take up the feat that gives us the cantrips.
That or take up the blessed warrior fighting style and pick up Sacred Flame cantrip.
Rangers though? You just gotta pew pew.”
Also Zephyr Strike and Steel Wind Strike are on the ranger list and they are excellent.
@@starbird3939 yup, we have a Paladin and my entire job is to back him up for instances like that. Our Warlock/cleric and wizard help with distance spells and mid range and also pulling fliers down. I also use some of my Druid based spells to help there too.
Yeah, usually when I hear someone having issues with Ranger it's not an issue with the class itself, but more with a player who is trying to use it in a way where it just would have made more sense for them to be a Fighter with Archery as their chosen fighting style and the Outlander background. They chose it for the "flavor" of what a Ranger brings to mind, not to actually utilize what makes it its own class.
Had to double check to see what the first story was pt.2 to and turns out it's the story of a Rogue neckbeard getting trapped in a marble. Dude is obviously salty and (wrongly) thought he could do better
Three beholders for a level 1 or 2 party? Hell, I just had a level 11 character in my game die to a single beholder. I doubt he would like playing his game either. He was just having a gatekeeping power trip.
“Can we play fake DnD?” WERK!!
I'm glad that a doge is able to have so many great cats.
“We play real dnd.”
He says immediately after sending 3 beholders at a party too low to stand a chance against 1. REAL dnd seeks to accomplish the goal of providing fun and entertainment to anyone participating, not to constantly punish players because they either can’t plan for everything or are too low to handle the monsters he’s throwing at them. Glad the players threw him to the curb.
As someone who loves Fernet con Coca, I'd be incredibly pissed if that happened to me even before all that stuff went down lol
And straight Fernet is pretty bitter, I've seen people even mix it with water soda to dilute it a bit
Acererak: That Neckbeard is too much even for me, and trap filled grinder dungeons are my thing!
Read that like Skeletor, mate.
So, did no one bother to tell the neckbeard what the "RP" in "TTRPG" stands for, or did he just roll up a random encounter every time someone tried to?
Story 2
Yeah… be careful with alcohol. A host providing alcohol can do a good job cutting folks off and giving them water.
I do agree drink responsibly, but story two was just funny.
I understand neckbeards need to what I presume is competitive D&D (because that mindset reminds me of competitive gaming) but D&D is a game and many people forget the definition of a game is supposed to be fun or entertaining.
Love that any mention of Bulk and Skull will have the theme song playing in anyone’s head
Hey man I appreciate these videos. I hate reading the horror stories Reddit honestly, but I like having this in the background so I can listen daily. I've also been that guy with drinking too much in a session or two.
Who's up for Fake D&D?
Can I bring my fake character sheet?
The fact that I can guess pretty sure where is the third story is from because of the drink makes me chuckle
Running a meat grinder campaign the way Neckbeard was trying to is fine and all. High combat, high stakes, death a frequent occurrence and little to no plot is the way a lot of games were run back in the day. But everyone needs to be on the same page in the kind of game they want to play, and that clearly wasn't it in this story. Also there is being a tough game and the DM going on a power trip by throwing beholders at a level 2 part, then saying it's their fault for losing an unwinnable fight. Even for a meat grinder game there needs to be a chance. The players were totally right in moving on to another game, and Neckbeard should totally not be surprised that people didn't want to play in his personal ego stroking session.
Story 1
See? This is why I don’t care for meat grinders.
No rp’ing, asshole DM’s who rather bully players, and no real connection.
Also I love the players were just “Oh? Is this Real DND? Well then, let’s play Fake DND then!”
I love throwing difficult encounters/dungeons/whatever but I always make sure it's achievable and if they start going downhill there's an ex-machina in place. Npc decides party isn't worth their time and leaves, npc decides oh crap I think I'm losing and bails, npc loses track of target and picks new target for some inexplicable reason causing them to take attacks of opportunity... you get the idea, you want the players to feel like they've earned their win if it's meant to be a stronger encounter, push their limits but give them an out too.
your "problem player" voice is absolutely hilarious when you pretend to be drunk
On second viewing of Story #1 I can see this is the clear split between Old School D&D and New D&D. The Player telling the story only complains about the game rules being difficult, not how they did or did not solve the problems.
Usually I see some triumphant way for players or GMs to get back at a bad person. This story is instead "New Players hate Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, fire Dungeon Master without telling him, and mock him when he shows up for session #2".
Are they supposed to be the good guys of the story? This seems like a Horror Story about Players. Sigh, everyone is the hero of their own story.
Nah. DM shouldn't have been an asshole, if you keep treating your players like crap, of course they're gonna throw you away to find a new game.
OH, Neckbeard who you prove you know nothing about D&D and are just doing what you! find fun, Beholders Never group up they are too paranoid they will get betrayed.
last story, no saving throw for a plague, remember your playing Warhammer and Papa Nurgle loves us all.
I love the 'neckbeard' voice. Lol.
No fair, I wanted to see how neckbeard would have run "fake" D&D.
In the first story, the DM in question didn’t seem to grasp how dungeons could have a social gameplay element to them. The dungeon, more often than not, isn’t just a series of random rooms where mindless sacks of HP stand around, they’re environments where living (or unliving) creatures live. If he’d let his players try some social finagling with the dungeon inhabitants they encountered, instead of just going “either fight or flee!”, they probably could have had a lot more fun and, possibly, made the dungeon easier.
Also, there’s letting players get into unwinnable situations and die due to their own mistakes and letting the dice fall where they may, and then there’s whatever this guy considers “challenging.” 3 beholders as a random encounter is nonsense.
All in all, this guy doesn’t seem to have a very good grasp of how to run a good dungeon crawl campaign. And he seemed like kind of a bitter asshole, at that.
So, it looks like I have to be the guy that points out that Royale ends with an E. It is a tiny little detail, but it didn't take away from mental image of that glorious nerd fight.
So neck beard wanted "real D&D" ahhhh. I like guys like this as players. He clearly just wants to power trip. This is when you walk away if he's the DM. I like to get these guys as players though. Oh, got your minmaxed character with all over 15 rolls? Yeah, I expect him to get killed in session one. Roll a new character. Session two? Only neck beard will be rolling a new character, trust me. Session three? Oh, I'm making him fill out a huge backstory for this character, lots of detail, and then killing him immediately. He will reroll at least 4 characters that session. He'll get his "Real" D&D. But ONLY him. Everyone else will have a good time. But he will be utterly savaged. Is it picking on him? Yes. But the lesson must be taught, and it is learned through experience. "Don't worry neck beard. Difficulty is exactly what you want. You want real D&D. YOU will get your "Real" D&D. The others will actually have fun. You? Well, you will ensure that it's ME who has fun"
Wow.
Did those players go too far with their treatment of the Meat Grinder DM? No... not at all.
See, half of this really isn't a problem. Random encounters are absolutely part of the game and keep things lively. The world doesn't need to be perfectly balanced around the players, that doesn't make sense. But 'monsters don't talk?' Yeah no. If you're going to start making use of old school design elements like random encounters, not balancing counts around players, and your encounters being designed to drain resources and the rest (a personal favorite mode of play for me) then you have to start including reaction rolls and not no-sell every single option the players come up with. D&D shouldn't just be about combat, at low level one of your best tricks is creatively *avoiding* combat or setting it up so that the combat is in your favor before you've rolled initiative. So much of this is shit new players whine about without understanding the basics of a game where you don't get major main character syndrome and plot armor. . . But man, this guy needs to read his audience and consider options. If the players come up with something creative, you're gonna need to give them some leeway.
To be honest, I think the neckbeard has some points here. . . But man his social skills are completely lacking. And "Play to win" is a ridiculous thing. There's a difference between a tough DM and an adversarial power-gaming DM .
As far as random encounters: If you roll something out of the party's ability (like, more than a little bit) you don't jump straight to that encounter, you start to foreshadow it and give them every opportunity for an out. It's not a videogame with limited render distance that just spawns enemies at a node right around the corner in a cheap trick.
I'm surprised the neckbeard didn't just dismiss the players as scrubs who couldn't handle a real challenge. That's usually what happens when people complain about a video game being too difficult, and it's a pet peeve of mine. Harder isn't always better, people. Too easy is boring, sure, but too hard is boring and frustrating, and nobody likes to feel frustrated. I can definitely empathize with the players preferring "fake D&D."
That thumbnail is glorious!
I’ve seen ridiculous odds before, 2 bugbears, 2 bugbear chiefs, an orc barbarian as wave 1, wave 2 3 actions later, a houseruled Behir with on death 50 ft cone breath weapon, followed by 2 young dragons and after that the session ended with 2 waves left but I didn’t return.
There shouldn't have been a Behir there-they absolutely HATE dragons. They will go out of their way to leave an area that has them should its extreme efforts not work to drive them out, will not work with them, and even attempt to kill them on sight if they think they can get away with it. Having two dragons as part of the assault with a Behir would probably have seen the Behir teaming up with the party just to kill the dragons it knew were coming next.
Drunk ranger me of an episode of MASH (Alcoholics Unanimous Season 3, Episode 9, for those following along at home), went a little something like this (Obligatory Inbound Wall o' Text Warning, whole scene takes about two minutes on the show):
Frank, as acting commander, had just banned alcohol from the camp. He ordered everyone to listen to Father Mulcahy's sermon on the evils of booze. Mulcahy was nervous due to the big crowd, so Klinger calmed him down with a lil' somethin' somethin'.
Mulcahy's sermon went to the tune of:
"My friends, let me to quote from Leviticus 10: 'Do not drink wine or strong drink thou, nor thy sons with thee, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die. It shall be a statue forever, throughout your generations.' My friends, the Lord said this to Aaron after the passing of his beloved sons, Nadib and Abahoo.'" he begins to sway a bit, "It's rather warm in here...Radar, could you open one of the stained glass windows? (Radar starts to get up, looking very confused before sitting back down) My friends, let me quote Leviticus chapter 10. Do not drink wine, or strong drink thou, nor thy sons with thee..."
At this point Hawkeye chimes in with a "We saw this one..."
"Let me tell you something, however compulsory it may be: There's no film, I'm live. Now back to where we were, when you last heard from me. It was it was with Leviticus on the 10th I believe.
'Drink thee not, nor thee, thou sons, lest ye die, nor congregate at the corner tabernacle.' I'd like to take a short sabbatical, or a cup of coffee, or I wonder is there a doctor in the tent?"
After a fight breaks out and the 18th Amendment gets repealed, he ends with:
"Did I ever tell you folks the one about the Prodigal Son?"
All in all, one of my favorites from the season. Why do I bring it up? Because I very much picture the drunk ranger as William Christopher now, and that's my headcanon. "Jocularity! Jocularity!"
"I can't get their [Bulk and Skull's] them song out of my head."
.... Dammit!
I watched you before Crow's Perch for the kitties. :) Hi Alice, you're doing a great job.
13:48 fernet and coca cola, such a tiny little detail, and yet there's no easier way to tell which country this guy lives in haha
3 beholders? Just one of those is stronger than the lich they are supposed to be killing.
Never thought I'd experience this in my life, but...
First?
Also, thank you for the entertainment, oh magnificent Doge
My husband has ALSO been told he's not allowed to drink during TTRPGs, lol. None of us like to play with him after more than one beer because he's the same kind of useless as OP's friend...
Now we play first and party second.
Don’t worry Alice I’m already subscribbed
I'm a Crown & Coke guy myself. Haven't had one in years, though.
Ah, just in time for breakfast.
First one does not pass the sniff test, for me. I do not think that happened; ends with a random dm being OK with showing up to tweek some random dude they do not know, which I read as "then they all stood up and clapped." Not sure if there was some truth to it or not; the dm here is a cartoonist stereotype who did every old school gaming trope. Finding another dm willing to thumb their nose at some rando, finding another dm that quickly in general, the witty quips the players make while the dm is caught flat footed, the dm arguing in one scene for an extended period but not firing back when the pacing was right for the good guys to win, and fact that the op kept trying to back lead a beer and prezles game (they leveled up between sessions) makes me think this did not happen as stated.
The game actually sounds fun if you are into old school play. It is OK if you are into that sort of thing; no back story, life being cheap, and unbalanced encounters are hallmarks to that sort of play. He was probably using exploration turns, and every time you dottle you get an encounter to put more tension on the players and encourage people to act quickly; dungeons are dangerous obstacles courses in that style of play and OP just seems not into it. OP said they leveled up between sessions, so they probably leveled up fast and the random encounters are to keep you from farming exp by avoiding danger.
Unbalanced encounters are fun; they encourage out of the box thinking which is where most Old School style play shines. IE, you cannot kill the skeletal warrior, but you are surrounded by lethal traps; try pushing them into one, pick pocketing the key you need, or turning them. OP complains that the scenarios were meat grinders, but does not describe any solution in the story than running up and hitting it aside from the final tpk where they got boxed in.
Totally a jerk move to make someone drive out for a game, prep a game, and show up with another dm at their regular table. You wasted a lot of their time and purposefully tried to anger them. Could have just said you would not go back... OP says the game was not unfair, just lethal and difficult, so the dm seemed to be trying to run a fun game here; they just had different ideas of what fun is. Seems oddly petty.
What's the sniff test? First I've heard of it.
Combat - explore - roleplay
100% combat doesn't sound like real dnd
At las poor Charle I knew him well:
I rolled a nat 20... When i found Doge! 😉
Nan, I half grew up with the og power rangers!
A lot of the stuffy was cheesy as hell. But as someone who enjoyed the Adam West batman show when I could watch it at my grandparents' place, (I had no cable, they did), I bared it and got hyped everytime they morphed and called for the zords!
Unfair Encounters are fine. It is important that all the players know what they sign up for.
Difference between Bulk and Skull and the Coke Fighters is that Bulk and Skull went through an arch of going from Bullies to Heroes. In the Finale of Power Rangers in Space, Bulk and Skull are the ones to rally the people to fight the invaders when it seemed that the Rangers had abandoned them. The Coke Fighters most likely went on being shitty people to this day. At best, they're friendly but horrible if you go more than skin deep.
I would like another, Mr. Doge. Please? ❤️
Now to be fair, that meat grinder game style was how dnd was originally ran, and there is a reason why it isnt anymore, and yes it can still be fun if eveyone is there for it. Where are we? Dungeon. Why? To kill monsters. Why? Loot. Why do we want the loot? Well because back then you gained experience based on gold, that and the game was more inspired by the old conan novels as opposed to the Lord of the Rings, which it would turn toward in later iterations. You can absolutely have a blast with that old game play style, but a crap dm is still a crap dm. A few of the worst dms are using elements from the old iterations of the game, just poorly inolemented, that and there is a reason for them no longer being a part of the game.
At least the drunk wasn't the DM. I've had a few bad experiences of that.
High lethality games are fine. I feel like people are primed to make lethality into a horror story but it's a way of playing the game but you've kind of got to help players out a little. Help them learn the style. Tell them what to expect. Plus, high lethality does not mean adversarial. In fact, the Old School would say that the DM ought to be a neutral arbitrator. However, people act like unfair combat encounters are sinful. It's a part of the Old School style that balance is not really a thing. Running away is a valid strategy. That guy did mess up though when he said they couldn't talk to the monsters. Most old school monsters can talk and are not immediately hostile
So this is one of the few times I'm only gonna partially disagree. That style DnD can be fun but only if you have people playing that style of D and D. That's reminiscent of the old chainmail and The Gary guygax days where it really was players versus GM. Don't get me wrong the neck beard is still an idiot for trying to force it down other player's throats in a way that really didn't make anyone happy. If he wants to run that style of DnD then honestly he needs to go and post looking for old school Gary gygax style players to play cut throat dungeon crawl
Let me add that having played both versions I much prefer newer DnD. Younger generations brought new ideas to the game system and made it better for me at least.
I just fall asleep when I drink, especially on discord
Drunk DnD. . .Now that sounds wild. Can you imagion the races playing drunk mario kart/Party?
What was the previous video with neckbeard?
Oh my god there's a fourth cat HELLO NEW FRIEND ALICE
The two friends sounded more like Beavis and Butthead
Video for the previous story?
If you want a grinder game run Tomb of Horror.... the Entire thing is a masochist dream of pain and suffering...it's literally a troll campaign that the players are designed to fail.
I like meatgrinder dungeons but Neckbeard is just a bad DM...awful actually. I would not play with such a person. Encounter balance? Not for my players and me. We create characters and they go into the world. My players (as their characters) do research and ask about the legends and lore of a region. Don't want to encounter a dragon? Don't go into an area where one is rumored to be. Why would low level players agree to go after a lich anyhow. Now, full disclosure, my group and l do not play D&D anymore. I started in 1981 at 1st edition and quit at 2nd edition. We play Fantasy Hero (no levels just skills and powers, no constantly rising hit points an no stacking on more armor to be harder to be hit) and we love it. To each their own. Just avoid bad Neckbeard DMs and find a group and game you like.
Why didn't he get banned for his outbursts?
Yes! Yes! Yes! (Insert footage of commenter jumping to his feet, fist pumping and howling like a maniac) (30 seconds later next apartment wall thumps several times - a code me and my neighbors have that means "Quiet Down in There!). Finally, someone, player or DM getting called on their bullshit, and gets to truly suck on the concept "YOUR'E FIRED!".
Can you imagine if other tabletop games got this treatment? What does "real" Shadowrun look like? Or Cyberpunk? Deadlands?
We know what Cyberpunk is supposed to look like cos the book is pretty on-point about how to run it, so it's easy to spot out the 'real' Cyberpunk players who should be avoided.
So out of curiosity… are these your cats? Are you a foster? Or do you work for an organization that helps cats?
Just curious
Think there his. Alice is a adopted stray. He mentioned it in another video.
Had to ban hard liquor from my game table because a friend of mine completely derailed two campaigns in a row with his drunken bullshit.
*Three beholders have entered the room*
Uhhh... We...try to dodge around and let them infight, Doom style? We're level 2, there's no way we're taking even one of them.
Besides, something tells me that DM wasn't interested in RPing homebrewed Souls style combat.
Ah, the fellow was following the oldest, original version of the game-ergo, when the DM was supposed to make the game as hard as possible for the party, and it was the party's job to beat the DM at his own game-both basically fighting against each other. It could be fun if done well, but my experiences back then suggest that it definitely isn't for many these days.
It made you far, far more careful, what with the insanely low health pools, the more vicious monsters, and the fact that the puzzles could be downright fiendish if you weren't paying attention...not to mention the fact that many traps could be instantly fatal. And yet...if you managed to win...
Oh, did it feel rewarding. Intensely so. All the suffering, all the paranoia, all the effort-paying off as the game ends. Sometimes even losing felt rewarding, but that would depend on how well the game went. These days? It's a bit too rough for a lot of players.
The "bit too rough for a lot of players" part is what sets a lot of people like that off. Back in the days of the Gary Gigax era, that was how D&D most likely was and that guy was probably a Gigaxian himself who preferred "real D&D" AKA 1st and 2nd edition. I ran the 5e port of Tomb of Horrors a couple years back and it was pretty rough for the players, but it was still remarkably fun because, well, it was actually designed with fun in mind and rewarded you for making clever observations while also laying deadly traps for those who are too careless. That neckbeard was trying to emulate what the Gigaxian era was like, but he was doing it all wrong. Even the fucking hardcore Tomb of Horrors THAT HAD A ROOM WHERE YOU FUCKING DIE IF YOU FALL ASLEEP was way more lenient with it's players because it didn't have a goddamn random encounter for "dilly-dallying" for too long trying to figure out the illusion puzzle. It was rough, sure, but my players came out of that entire experience HAVING FUN despite that dungeon just being a massive "fuck you." The gigaxian era playstyle isn't too rough for the players, let me tell you. What's too rough for the players is some power-tripping dipshit who thinks "difficulty" equates to using high levelled monsters en masse and being smug every time a player springs a trap that was probably put there on the spot just to "show them."
That neckbeard was not playing real D&D. He was playing D&D of the most false variety.
@@joshuawiener5003 The thing is, that *isn't* how Gygax ran D&D either. Tomb of Horrors was a specific kind of adventure for a specific kind of player, and comes with a massive disclaimer at the start that unless you have very investigative and creative players who enjoy assessing a situation before going into it, they won't have fun. Gygax also said things along the lines of the GM shouldn't be trying to kill characters, they should be creating situations where bad decisions will do it for them. That's why I don't like people like in this story, they've entirely missed the point of what they claim they're trying to emulate.
Geez how many cats do you own???
Ayeeee lets gooo
as someone who plays a ranger, i hate him
Alice know how to be cute.
Not that I want to sound like a jerk, but story 2 group, what in the flip are you even doing? You have a guy that YOU ALL KNOW is a lightweight drinker and he brought a bottle of whiskey along, he downs one glass, then two, and so on. What are you all doing? Twiddling your thumbs? Da flak group 2. If you know they can't handle the drink, don't let them have full control of the bottle, you should control how much they drink. I knew that even before I was old enough to drink for crying out loud.
Story One: This isn’t _D&D,_ it’s fucking _Diablo._
EDIT: Finding a new DM without telling the old DM everyone was dropping his (crap) game was a dick move though.
No cats in the outro? Dude! How are they going to earn their snacks? Bad Doge.
There is no 'real dnd'
Dnd is what you as a group make it.
8t's one of the many draws of the game. To be and do virtually anything and everything.
I've seen better campaigns than a lot of modern TV shows and movies.
This Neckbeard sounds like just that a neckbeard of the worst kind. I have played tomb of Horrors which he was basically doing with a different setting, it is a meatgrinder of the worst kind. It's a module for the players to see how long they can make a character last and even optimize builds for other setting and for DM to rack up kills. You will live longer in classic Ravenloft than horrors or this neckbeard DND.
Also playing DM vs players is never fun neither is the reverse. I personally dont try to make meat grinder campaigns as they are no fun for character building and well having fun. while do not hand my players things on a silver platter neither do i straight up merc them for lols i have been playing for nearly 3 decades started with 2nd edition. I have enough house rules to not really need most books except to keep new players from freaking out. I want players to have rich deep backstories so i can add flavor to the world and have things that make them more interested. That said I am not perfect I have my faults and blind spots but holy hell...... not like this.
Oh Alice is so beautiful, perfect tabby markings. Don't worry sweetie, I liked the video.
Remember don't drink and roll.
Thanks for the week of cringe Doge, see you next week!
I wonder how much of the second story (while super entertaining) was actually true, how did op just happen to over hear everything verbatim?
I'm disappointing with the neckbeard pt 2 part. The neckbeard had too many laughs.
D&D is not a win or lose proposition. And anyone with that mindset is failing at D&D. For that idiot to call that unfair meat grinder "real D&D" is really pointless.
Is it REALLY D&D night if you don't crack open the Bible and consult the Book of Jameson?
Dis furst kyet. Meeeeewww
SOOBSCRIB! DU EEET!