Have extremely hard water where I live (25+grains!). I installed a Watts Premier Reverse Osmosis system with a mineralization cartridge. Water is as good or better than bottled and taste great. TDS on the RO water is around 30 with a PH of 7. Been working great for espresso in my Barista Express. I believe water quality does make a big difference in the taste of your coffee.
Same as you hoon, i was counting on my refrigerator water. After i bought hardness test i was shocked how hard the water is. I am currently using bezzera magica pid, decided buying DVA 8 liter water softner (which is very cheap for long term cause using 1kg of sea salt to refresh it) the only disadvantage of the water softener is the bad taste of the water - i solved that problem by plugging coconut water filter. You should try it!
Happy to hear you keeping your Rancilio. I feel like you are starting to get the hang of it. You might consider adding a PIV to your machine. There is the issue of the warranty if you do. I made the decision to add one to my Gaggia Classic that is only a month old. I know it may screw up my warranty but I am willing to take that risk to have good coffee. I don't plan on getting rid of it for a while so I'm going to make it the best espresso machine I can.
Hey Hoon! So you're right in the sense that tap water is rarely good to use in espresso machines. But TDS meter as specified in the other comment doesn't measure hardness but rather how much dissolved solids/minerals your water has. Hardness is generally measured in CaCO3 (calc carbonate) and TDS doesn't isolate this mineral. But you can prob infer high TDS usually means high hardness. Also you don't want to be using low mineral (close to 0 TDS) water in anything metal (such as espresso boilers). Water is extremely unstable when it's distilled or low minerals. So when it touches metal, it strips the metal to re-ionize and stabilize itself. Also no mineral water with coffee usually makes it taste worse. It's best to re-mineralize it yourself after distilling it or using a highly filtered water (like zero water). They sell packets like 3rd wave water that you add to 0tds water... Or what some people do is make their own baking soda / lemon concoction to mix and should bring it back to coffee-ideal water. It's subjective but I usually target around 150-180TDS to use in my La Pavoni and my water kettle. Cheers!
James Hoffmann did a nice video on this (for coffee), pure demineralized water is not the way to go, including as main source for drinking, the devil as usual is in the details (what minerals, not only how much) when below a certain level. Your tap water probably is hard, and going down that much from your filters already is impressive, going one more step would be great (and barista express filters does that), but not up to no minerals.
Can you use the TDS meter, not a refractometer, to measure and calculate extraction rate? For example, I brewed coffee by pour over method using 15g coffee grounds and yielded 240g brewed coffee, i.e. 1:16 ratio. I used remineralized RO water that has a TDS of 20ppm. My brewed coffee has a TDS of 1987ppm. I need help with the calculations to convert ppm from the TDS meter to extraction. Not sure if it can be done with a TDS meter.
Hi from Connecticut..👍 Thanks for the video. I have used your link to get this tds meter from Amazon. I'm existing to test my drinking water from #Aquatru countertop water purification !!
Hoon, just seeing this video on Sunday morning at 7:17. You know, I hate to say this but it's hard enough trying to pull a good shot with all that entails but then on top of that having to buy special water or get tablets to treat water, after first boiling it or buying distilled water and treating it to put minerals back that were taken out by the distillation or boiling process is just way too much for me. I pay good money to my municipal water company for good drinking water. I also use a filter on my tap for water I drink and put in my machine. I'm just not going to fuss with it beyond that.
My wife had one and it doesn’t work very well, I use it to check my fish tank. I use primo water with my Breville with a filter attached so I never have to worry about water quality. You can refill a 5 gallon bottle for $1.75 where I live.
I would not use plain r-o water which is what the vending machines produce. That could corrode your machine. For a thread regarding this see: www.home-barista.com/water/yes-pure-ro-water-can-damage-your-espresso-machine-t67805.html#p743850 They have a whole forum there about water and this is just 1 thread - it can get very technical. You want some re-mineralization but not enough to cause scale. Glad to see you took my advice on the TDS meter !
@@HoonsCoffee Will do - thanks! One note on your Silvia . I've have several of these small single boiler machines. You probably already mentioned it, but backflushing is an important maintenance that needs to be done frequently. Another is - if you steam , to avoid possibly burning out the heating element it is good practice to refill the boiler afterwards. Steaming lowers the water level in the boiler and the heating coil must stay submerged. So run the pump with steam valve open until water comes out is the best way to be sure the boiler is full again.
I order this exact TDS water tester and tried it out as soon as it arrived today. My Tap water tested 156ppm, filtered water from the refrigerator 101ppm, got it down to 84ppm using refrigerator water + Brita filter. What I found most shocking was the 5-gallon waters I order monthly from the water company had a ppm higher than water from the refrigerator. I need to find a solution soon as my machine arrives next week😫
First thing I did when I got my Appartemento was to purchase the right water. I’ve had bad experience using home filtered water.For americano I use boiled water, so I save the bottled water for my espresso shots. Pretty sure that this will keep my machine in good health.
@@HoonsCoffee Hi Hoon, that is a very good question, at first I did not know wich one to purchase, but the store that sold me the machine told me to use Eska water, it is produce here in Québec, not sure you have it in the states.
I got this tester and the bottle water "Arrowhead" I have been buying tested fair "Marginally Acceptable". I guess I will try a different brand of water.
Yes! I'm looking for upgrading the grinder first and then the machine. I wished I had the budget to get a niche but I have around $300 so i saw the Lalit Fred and thought it might be a good upgrade? Maybe? 😜
Have extremely hard water where I live (25+grains!). I installed a Watts Premier Reverse Osmosis system with a mineralization cartridge. Water is as good or better than bottled and taste great. TDS on the RO water is around 30 with a PH of 7. Been working great for espresso in my Barista Express. I believe water quality does make a big difference in the taste of your coffee.
Same as you hoon, i was counting on my refrigerator water.
After i bought hardness test i was shocked how hard the water is.
I am currently using bezzera magica pid, decided buying DVA 8 liter water softner (which is very cheap for long term cause using 1kg of sea salt to refresh it) the only disadvantage of the water softener is the bad taste of the water - i solved that problem by plugging coconut water filter.
You should try it!
Happy to hear you keeping your Rancilio. I feel like you are starting to get the hang of it. You might consider adding a PIV to your machine. There is the issue of the warranty if you do. I made the decision to add one to my Gaggia Classic that is only a month old. I know it may screw up my warranty but I am willing to take that risk to have good coffee. I don't plan on getting rid of it for a while so I'm going to make it the best espresso machine I can.
Excellent test, great tip, thank you
every time after each sample douche the probe clean. with the pure water. contamination will occur if you don't . worked in a lab.
Hey Hoon! So you're right in the sense that tap water is rarely good to use in espresso machines. But TDS meter as specified in the other comment doesn't measure hardness but rather how much dissolved solids/minerals your water has. Hardness is generally measured in CaCO3 (calc carbonate) and TDS doesn't isolate this mineral. But you can prob infer high TDS usually means high hardness.
Also you don't want to be using low mineral (close to 0 TDS) water in anything metal (such as espresso boilers). Water is extremely unstable when it's distilled or low minerals. So when it touches metal, it strips the metal to re-ionize and stabilize itself. Also no mineral water with coffee usually makes it taste worse.
It's best to re-mineralize it yourself after distilling it or using a highly filtered water (like zero water). They sell packets like 3rd wave water that you add to 0tds water... Or what some people do is make their own baking soda / lemon concoction to mix and should bring it back to coffee-ideal water. It's subjective but I usually target around 150-180TDS to use in my La Pavoni and my water kettle.
Cheers!
Thank you for the information. Big help!
ok. I tested my refrigerator water and TDS is 140 which is 200 less than 340. Guess, it is not too hard. Only if we can measure Calcium Carbonate.
James Hoffmann did a nice video on this (for coffee), pure demineralized water is not the way to go, including as main source for drinking, the devil as usual is in the details (what minerals, not only how much) when below a certain level. Your tap water probably is hard, and going down that much from your filters already is impressive, going one more step would be great (and barista express filters does that), but not up to no minerals.
Can you use the TDS meter, not a refractometer, to measure and calculate extraction rate?
For example, I brewed coffee by pour over method using 15g coffee grounds and yielded 240g brewed coffee, i.e. 1:16 ratio. I used remineralized RO water that has a TDS of 20ppm. My brewed coffee has a TDS of 1987ppm. I need help with the calculations to convert ppm from the TDS meter to extraction. Not sure if it can be done with a TDS meter.
That meter doesn’t tell hardness. You need to use a bwt water pitcher. You’re going to line up your machine
Which one did you get?
I got the 2.7 liter bwt pitcher. Whole Latte Love carries them but Amazon prices are much less
Hi from Connecticut..👍
Thanks for the video. I have used your link to get this tds meter from Amazon. I'm existing to test my drinking water from #Aquatru countertop water purification !!
Great Informative video, Next time try doing test from best to worst water for a better accurate test.
Thanks
Hoon, just seeing this video on Sunday morning at 7:17. You know, I hate to say this but it's hard enough trying to pull a good shot with all that entails but then on top of that having to buy special water or get tablets to treat water, after first boiling it or buying distilled water and treating it to put minerals back that were taken out by the distillation or boiling process is just way too much for me. I pay good money to my municipal water company for good drinking water. I also use a filter on my tap for water I drink and put in my machine. I'm just not going to fuss with it beyond that.
My wife had one and it doesn’t work very well, I use it to check my fish tank. I use primo water with my Breville with a filter attached so I never have to worry about water quality. You can refill a 5 gallon bottle for $1.75 where I live.
I would not use plain r-o water which is what the vending machines produce. That could corrode your machine. For a thread regarding this see:
www.home-barista.com/water/yes-pure-ro-water-can-damage-your-espresso-machine-t67805.html#p743850
They have a whole forum there about water and this is just 1 thread - it can get very technical.
You want some re-mineralization but not enough to cause scale. Glad to see you took my advice on the TDS meter !
Thanks Rich. Please stop by for coffee!
@@HoonsCoffee Will do - thanks! One note on your Silvia . I've have several of these small single boiler machines. You probably already mentioned it, but backflushing is an important maintenance that needs to be done frequently. Another is - if you steam , to avoid possibly burning out the heating element it is good practice to refill the boiler afterwards. Steaming lowers the water level in the boiler and the heating coil must stay submerged. So run the pump with steam valve open until water comes out is the best way to be sure the boiler is full again.
I order this exact TDS water tester and tried it out as soon as it arrived today. My Tap water tested 156ppm, filtered water from the refrigerator 101ppm, got it down to 84ppm using refrigerator water + Brita filter. What I found most shocking was the 5-gallon waters I order monthly from the water company had a ppm higher than water from the refrigerator. I need to find a solution soon as my machine arrives next week😫
How do I see the EC?
What is your water machine? I live in Tucson and use a filter and it is 105. Need to do better
First thing I did when I got my Appartemento was to purchase the right water. I’ve had bad experience using home filtered water.For americano I use boiled water, so I save the bottled water for my espresso shots. Pretty sure that this will keep my machine in good health.
Which bottled water are you using it now?
@@HoonsCoffee Hi Hoon, that is a very good question, at first I did not know wich one to purchase, but the store that sold me the machine told me to use Eska water, it is produce here in Québec, not sure you have it in the states.
By the way ,I ordered the tds meter, it was 19$ on amazon ca., I’m really curious to see the results.
@@HoonsCoffee By the way I also ordered that meter, it was 19$ on amazon canada.
I got this tester and the bottle water "Arrowhead" I have been buying tested fair "Marginally Acceptable". I guess I will try a different brand of water.
I bought the hardness tester and the PH tester as a set for $14. My water from the tap was 143. From the fridge it is 133.
I have get the tester. According to the Specialty Coffee Association of America, pH between 6.5 and 7.5 is acceptable.
I forgot to add the PH. It was 8.66. The meter comes with 3 envelopes to recalibrate the meter over time.
Hey Hoon, what’s your opinion on lelit machines and grinders? Thank you:)
Edit: how did you answer my question before I asked??? :P
What machine do you have now? I assumed Barista Express?
Yes! I'm looking for upgrading the grinder first and then the machine.
I wished I had the budget to get a niche but I have around $300 so i saw the Lalit Fred and thought it might be a good upgrade? Maybe? 😜
Hoon, write your results down!
Twitter id?
No twitter at the moment!