I'd agree, but the unions themselves have to unionize. The working class cannot win by being divided in separate "unions" which are actually fiefdoms of the union "leaders."
@@Achrononmaster Well, there is the Socialist Industrial Union Program of the American Socialist Daniel De Leon. The concept is to organize all trades into one big union to end capitalism. When the time comes the union members would do a General Lockout of the owners rather than a general strike. See slp.org
@@Achrononmaster you’re talking about worker solidarity, and you’re dead right! The people making $150k+ per year are still workers, save as the ppl making $20k per year. As it stands, the people making more think it’s unfair that Mc’s employees make $15 an hour to do “entry level work” while they make $20 or less to do a job that requires training, experience, skill. They’re right too, burger flippers should make less than career professionals! Those professionals are getting ripped off too! They should be making $40 an hour and minimum should be a living wages… but the guys at the very top are many going to give it back, they worked hard to trick folks and paid a lot to politicians so they can keep robbing us all!
@@sporegnosis The deep cuts occur as they make you work harder for less pay. Technological advancement says it should be the opposite, but the dynamic is ultimately tied bargaining power, not productive efficiency.
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root" ... Henry David Thoreau We must always look deeper .... Education, Education, Education !!! "Ignorance is the biggest perpetrator of EVIL" ... Plato
Plato whose ideas stemmed from Socrates only lead to oligarchy, feudalism, and the religious ideal of not looking at reality and thus leading my to mass inequality.
@@everything1023 I have a bit a thought contradiction re education. On the one hand I hate the idea of children being forced to spend so much of their childhood boxed up in a classroom. Being forced to learn things which are mostly never going to be of any use. Yet if children weren't forced to go to school how would they learn?
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” ― Frederick Douglass
Actually, I would posit that neoliberalism and Ayn Rand economic ideology DID work. It worked splendidly for the Ruling Class. It was quite inauspicious for the bourgeoisie to subject workers to the harshest and most unforgiving economic ideology because they knew that the American Working Class would blame itself for a drastic plunge in living standards. The Ruling Class sowed these seeds many decades before, imbuing the population in free-market ideology, and harvesting its proceeds from the late 1970s onward.
It doesn't work for the objectives it touts there is no prosperity for middle class, for past 40 years all we get is spending cuts for social programs or any public infrastructure and costs of living exploding out of control, sinking class mobility
@@ZealothPL well, there are true believers (followers of Hayek who thought socialism was the "road to serfdom") who truly thought neoliberalism would work, and there are cynical ruling elites who knew it would enrich their class, the rentiers, regardless of whether it would work as advertised by the Mont Pelerin think tanks or not. The former were just delusional, because their thinking was based on Neoclassical economics and/or New Keynesianism, which are demonstrably false paradigms, so they make predictions that are dead wrong, almost the reverse of reality (such as the effect of higher wages).
We can't credibly assign it a success or failure, without first contemplating the rank hypocrisy of adherents - 'free markets'? What of public money subsidised R & D, banking bail outs, and all the other histories which mark a complete departure from from what they dub 'Laisez Faire'; Yes, it is quite correct it has shifted massive wealth into the hands of an increasingly dwindling minority - but surely, this is more down to corruption on a massive scale - the ideological matter is, if we're honest, largely a PR exercise to legitimise what, in the absence of corrupt policy-makers, would be rightly defined as criminal.
@@Achrononmaster If my memory isn't letting me down, I think it was Hayek who held telephone conversations with the Thatcher, encouraging her to introduce Chicago School economics across the UK. Thatcher stated, it can't be done in a 'liberal democracy'.... The Falklands War, AKA 'Operation Corporate' ensued, providing the perfect distraction! Perversely, the Argentine Govt of the day also wanted war - to distract their public from the ravages of the very same policy set Thatcher wanted to introduce in the UK. One war. One Policy set. 2 distractions - from either end of the equation.
Recognize that the Federal Reserve has a mission. That is to keep wages low. Also to keep interest rates low so that the owner class can afford to borrow ever great amounts because they don't make enough to pay their bond dept.
it could all be solved by making it financially worthwhile for people to SHARE the jobs we can agree we NEED people to do and working much less....there would never be such a thing as unemployment. No more working and doing anything FOR money but sharing the work we can agree we NEED to have done. There is no problem with people doing the work we need ..it's all the millions of people doing the work we don't need that's the problem.
Capitalism has to fall first. Either we all run away from Capitalism like peasants ran from feudalism. Or we wait for "Rome" to fall so we can run away like the empire slaves...
@@deelee4639 it doesn't have to fall...doing what I suggested would make a transition away from capitalism without causing any chaos, suffering and death at all.
@@sporegnosis Yes its not a job we need and yet most of them spend all their lives working hard FOR money..but it doesn't do anything useful for society.
@@peterjol They don't work hard for money, they spend their lives to work *us* for money. Most people do not realise that they are too poor to be working for a salary.
So true. My whole working experience from 70s to now has been producing more for less as the wealth rises to the top. Now if you are willing to work as an IT person or in assorted professions That require selling out, you're probably doing well. Maybe I am naively hoping to save my humanity and not work at something that scams people. I like to be able to face myself after a day's work and feel it has done some good. There is a price to pay for that. But, can't we do better as a country?
There were active attacks against Unions and Labour during the 1980's and 90's. The ideal became "small Government"; and large Corporations moved manufacturing to Third World countries, where the people had to work for lower wages.
Tell me about it. I was trying to get a job, as a college atudent fresh out of high school. I couldn't get a burger-flipping job. They were all held by mid-20s people laid off from their regular jobs.
Thing is, things WERE changing. Throughout the 20th century, the gap between rich and poor (in the Developed World) was steadily decreasing - by the 70's there was the greatest "equality" the world have ever seen, since we crawled down from the trees. This was when the elite decided they had to do something about it, and claw back their wealth and power. Thatcher and Reagan kicked it off by deregulating the money markets. And we let them get awy with it. And are still doing so. Unfortunately there are too many useful idiots in the world.
@Phil Uribe And Bill Clinton brought in more changes than a Republican Govt would dare attempt -- the end of Glass-Steagall etc. During the 1990's, SWAT Teams went into poor neighbourhoods, rounded up innocent kids, put them in privatised prisons, and forced them to make uniforms for the Dept of Defence. -- so that 25% of the world's prisoners were held within the US.
In the 70s, worker prosperity was made synonymous with inflation, to be stamped out. But that prosperity is business opportunity. Working people’s immiseration is business loss. It puts them on welfare.
Yes, I was just discussing how some people caught on to how the aristocrats made their wealth, and then came to the US to do the same thing. It must be egalitarian (relatively) in the beginning, to engage the people. However, over time, all they will do is become a new ruling class of aristocrats. Tyranny is the inevitable conclusions of uncontrolled human desire.
And when Marxist economic systems (my catch-all term for socialism, communism, etc.) take control of a nation's government and economy, the owner class just gets replaced by the Marxist Party leadership, and wherever it's been established, there's no real difference for the workers.
If you want to know the truth, consider this; it's being going on for 4 decades but only relatively recently has it been named and labelled as 'neoliberalism'. In 1980, if voting Conservative or Republican, did anyone know they were voting neoliberal? In the 1990s, if voting Labour or Democrat, did anyone know they were voting neoliberal? That tells you everything you need to know.
The part at the beginning about the ideas changing but nothing on the ground changing, reminded me of "The German Ideology". Where do "new" ideas like critical race theory and gender ideology fit in? Are they too designed to place the capitalist system on a more secure footing and bolster the economic interests of the ruling economic elite?
The left panders to the working class, placates them, makes them feel like the intention to help exists, when in reality they only enable and validate reich wing policies and terrorism. We need a Direct Democracy without Representatives, who will always be the weak link, where the system that works in principle, does not translate to the real world. It's all a charade
@@uncannyvalley2350 I can see what you're driving at, and the logic is clear. But it is necessary to split the Faux Left charlatans from the 'real' Left < the ideas of which have been uniform, and credible for a long time. Further, Direct Democracy, whilst being open to multiple stances, is itself rooted in the Left < opposed to Establishment control as it is.
Is the control coming from "them"? Or is it us that does not know what money really is or should be? On the them side there is this: There is nothing legitimate about a government issuing and then determining the access to the abstract acCounting unit. THAT is not a legitimate function of self governance in a free society. On the us side there is this: Compartmental thinking leaves people with the notion that the money system is separate from other things...........it is not. Fix the thinking about and then the structure of money itself and everything else changes. Every single jurisdiction can adopt the following resolutions in a grass roots process of regaining control over how we do this thing called money. How many in this community can learn this and then work for it? Presently in our economy virtually all of the accounting numbers/money we are using as a People are borrowed into existence with all that is of real value and labor pledged against it. And these units must go out of existence to stop the accumulation of interest on their use. And even then the compounding that has occurred along the value chain, which creates tremendous and relentless instability, cannot be stopped. It seems absurd because it is absurd, yet in this the 21st Century we are still not using an economic accounting/credit/number system that gives direct credit to the doer after the doing is done. Many, many rightly point out that in this country the black slave population that basically built such a large part of this country did not get ANY credit for the doing that they did. Indentured servants of many races and places of origin also have been given No Credit for the doing that they did. Most all of the absolute most critical doing that a society needs done is given No Credit in the system we have today. (child care, elder care, environmental care, ….) And still today the very notion that there must be an issuer of the numbers before The People can give and receive credit amongst themselves persists. When one thinks about how rich a society can be if it does not use banks to originate acCounting units but only gives and receives credit for real doing it boggles the mind to think that we are still borrowing the use of the numbers with which we do our acCounting! We can do something about this by not conceding power to "them" and by reclaiming monetary literacy and bringing these resolutions to every jurisdiction. www.moneytransparency.com/msta-resolutions
So why not call this facism? Why still call it capitalism, we are beyond late stage capitalism, no? Or will that occur during the Hyper -Bitcoinization of the global economic system? #elSalvador
I don't care what you do, everything can be gamed, even marxism that you all see so fond of. What we need is direct democracy utilizing blockchain and real time voting. That way when whatever you have gets gamed you can change it or get rid of the person gaming it like the ancient Greeks did. Marxism got gamed, communism got gamed, Capitalism embraces being gamed, socialism seems to recognize that gaming takes place and tries to lessen it by redistributing wealth but allowing gaming to continue. We have finite resources and our genetics predispose us to tribalism, this is a recipe for disaster unless we use all our gray matter to overcome the limbic system and so far we haven't done that.
How the fuck do you know how we all feel. Not smart enough to not lump everyone together? You just couldnt help yourself. But i think you’re right after that. Would be interesting.
Unionize 💪🏼
I'd agree, but the unions themselves have to unionize. The working class cannot win by being divided in separate "unions" which are actually fiefdoms of the union "leaders."
@@Achrononmaster Well, there is the Socialist Industrial Union Program of the American Socialist Daniel De Leon. The concept is to organize all trades into one big union to end capitalism. When the time comes the union members would do a General Lockout of the owners rather than a general strike. See slp.org
Exactly…..
A modest place to start but yes. That too!
@@Achrononmaster you’re talking about worker solidarity, and you’re dead right! The people making $150k+ per year are still workers, save as the ppl making $20k per year. As it stands, the people making more think it’s unfair that Mc’s employees make $15 an hour to do “entry level work” while they make $20 or less to do a job that requires training, experience, skill.
They’re right too, burger flippers should make less than career professionals! Those professionals are getting ripped off too!
They should be making $40 an hour and minimum should be a living wages… but the guys at the very top are many going to give it back, they worked hard to trick folks and paid a lot to politicians so they can keep robbing us all!
"You can have any Idea in your head, as long as I, the ruling class exploit you. Now off to work you go!"
... and work VERY "hard." That's how we, the capitalists, can increase our profits!
@@benangel3268 Otherwise there will be deep cuts!
@@sporegnosis The deep cuts occur as they make you work harder for less pay. Technological advancement says it should be the opposite, but the dynamic is ultimately tied bargaining power, not productive efficiency.
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root" ... Henry David Thoreau
We must always look deeper .... Education, Education, Education !!!
"Ignorance is the biggest perpetrator of EVIL" ... Plato
Excellent and relevant quotes.
Education has never cured Addiction. Bedford Falls has turned into Pottersville.
@@KetoKassy
What education? Most Americans don't even know where Canada is. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration.
Plato whose ideas stemmed from Socrates only lead to oligarchy, feudalism, and the religious ideal of not looking at reality and thus leading my to mass inequality.
@@everything1023
I have a bit a thought contradiction re education. On the one hand I hate the idea of children being forced to spend so much of their childhood boxed up in a classroom. Being forced to learn things which are mostly never going to be of any use. Yet if children weren't forced to go to school how would they learn?
Very insightful! “ what really happened underneath is gradual development of recapturing value from the workers and the working class……by capital”
See Powell memorandum
Thanks for the information
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
― Frederick Douglass
Actually, I would posit that neoliberalism and Ayn Rand economic ideology DID work. It worked splendidly for the Ruling Class.
It was quite inauspicious for the bourgeoisie to subject workers to the harshest and most unforgiving economic ideology because they knew that the American Working Class would blame itself for a drastic plunge in living standards. The Ruling Class sowed these seeds many decades before, imbuing the population in free-market ideology, and harvesting its proceeds from the late 1970s onward.
It doesn't work for the objectives it touts
there is no prosperity for middle class, for past 40 years all we get is spending cuts for social programs or any public infrastructure and costs of living exploding out of control, sinking class mobility
@@ZealothPL well, there are true believers (followers of Hayek who thought socialism was the "road to serfdom") who truly thought neoliberalism would work, and there are cynical ruling elites who knew it would enrich their class, the rentiers, regardless of whether it would work as advertised by the Mont Pelerin think tanks or not.
The former were just delusional, because their thinking was based on Neoclassical economics and/or New Keynesianism, which are demonstrably false paradigms, so they make predictions that are dead wrong, almost the reverse of reality (such as the effect of higher wages).
Awesometacular. Carry on Wayward Son - Kansas ua-cam.com/video/2X_2IdybTV0/v-deo.html
We can't credibly assign it a success or failure, without first contemplating the rank hypocrisy of adherents - 'free markets'? What of public money subsidised R & D, banking bail outs, and all the other histories which mark a complete departure from from what they dub 'Laisez Faire'; Yes, it is quite correct it has shifted massive wealth into the hands of an increasingly dwindling minority - but surely, this is more down to corruption on a massive scale - the ideological matter is, if we're honest, largely a PR exercise to legitimise what, in the absence of corrupt policy-makers, would be rightly defined as criminal.
@@Achrononmaster If my memory isn't letting me down, I think it was Hayek who held telephone conversations with the Thatcher, encouraging her to introduce Chicago School economics across the UK. Thatcher stated, it can't be done in a 'liberal democracy'.... The Falklands War, AKA 'Operation Corporate' ensued, providing the perfect distraction! Perversely, the Argentine Govt of the day also wanted war - to distract their public from the ravages of the very same policy set Thatcher wanted to introduce in the UK. One war. One Policy set. 2 distractions - from either end of the equation.
Recognize that the Federal Reserve has a mission. That is to keep wages low. Also to keep interest rates low so that the owner class can afford to borrow ever great amounts because they don't make enough to pay their bond dept.
And no "ideology" can help against the ideology of the ruling class.
What do you mean ?
Those who control Capital will determine what policies are enacted, unless ... ..
@@James-os9ku I mean ideologies lead to dictatorship, no matter which one.
You say the ideas didn’t work. They worked for the people they were intended to work for.
Its amazing how many Americans do not understand this, and can not even define neoliberalism or perhaps have not even heard of it.
It is not just Americans
Maggie and Ronnie Reagan
both turned the tables .
I enjoy your Knowledge, sir.
Thank You.
I Pray You Live Long and Prosper.
God Loves You and so do I.
Peace!
\o/
Omg man get over yourself this is serious.
Organize collectively and non hierarchically across all sectors, issues and on an international basis
what? feeding the rich and starving the poor didnt work?!?
It worked well for the Ruling Capitalist Class and that's all they care about.
Unionize.
it could all be solved by making it financially worthwhile for people to SHARE the jobs we can agree we NEED people to do and working much less....there would never be such a thing as unemployment. No more working and doing anything FOR money but sharing the work we can agree we NEED to have done. There is no problem with people doing the work we need ..it's all the millions of people doing the work we don't need that's the problem.
Capitalism has to fall first. Either we all run away from Capitalism like peasants ran from feudalism. Or we wait for "Rome" to fall so we can run away like the empire slaves...
@@deelee4639 it doesn't have to fall...doing what I suggested would make a transition away from capitalism without causing any chaos, suffering and death at all.
Capitalists and the Ruling class don't have jobs.
@@sporegnosis Yes its not a job we need and yet most of them spend all their lives working hard FOR money..but it doesn't do anything useful for society.
@@peterjol They don't work hard for money, they spend their lives to work *us* for money. Most people do not realise that they are too poor to be working for a salary.
Sharing, Justice and Unity for All
So true. My whole working experience from 70s to now has been producing more for less as the wealth rises to the top. Now if you are willing to work as an IT person or in assorted professions
That require selling out, you're probably doing well. Maybe I am naively hoping to save my humanity and not work at something that scams people. I like to be able to face myself after a day's work and feel it has done some good. There is a price to pay for that.
But, can't we do better as a country?
Brilliant!
There were active attacks against Unions and Labour during the 1980's and 90's. The ideal became "small Government"; and large Corporations moved manufacturing to Third World countries, where the people had to work for lower wages.
Tell me about it. I was trying to get a job, as a college atudent fresh out of high school. I couldn't get a burger-flipping job. They were all held by mid-20s people laid off from their regular jobs.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Thing is, things WERE changing. Throughout the 20th century, the gap between rich and poor (in the Developed World) was steadily decreasing - by the 70's there was the greatest "equality" the world have ever seen, since we crawled down from the trees. This was when the elite decided they had to do something about it, and claw back their wealth and power. Thatcher and Reagan kicked it off by deregulating the money markets. And we let them get awy with it. And are still doing so. Unfortunately there are too many useful idiots in the world.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"
- Homer Simpson
@Phil Uribe And Bill Clinton brought in more changes than a Republican Govt would dare attempt -- the end of Glass-Steagall etc. During the 1990's, SWAT Teams went into poor neighbourhoods, rounded up innocent kids, put them in privatised prisons, and forced them to make uniforms for the Dept of Defence. -- so that 25% of the world's prisoners were held within the US.
enough with the platitudes
As it was in the beginning so it is and ever shall be…
SPOT ON!!!
In the 70s, worker prosperity was made synonymous with inflation, to be stamped out. But that prosperity is business opportunity. Working people’s immiseration is business loss. It puts them on welfare.
great info
Read the "Powell Memo".
Insanity has many forms of reality
Eat the rich... Lemmy
Yes, I was just discussing how some people caught on to how the aristocrats made their wealth, and then came to the US to do the same thing. It must be egalitarian (relatively) in the beginning, to engage the people. However, over time, all they will do is become a new ruling class of aristocrats. Tyranny is the inevitable conclusions of uncontrolled human desire.
And when Marxist economic systems (my catch-all term for socialism, communism, etc.) take control of a nation's government and economy, the owner class just gets replaced by the Marxist Party leadership, and wherever it's been established, there's no real difference for the workers.
@@PockyFiend Yes, which itself results in tyranny, obviously, because of uncontrolled human desire.
The working class will rise
If you want to know the truth, consider this; it's being going on for 4 decades but only relatively recently has it been named and labelled as 'neoliberalism'. In 1980, if voting Conservative or Republican, did anyone know they were voting neoliberal? In the 1990s, if voting Labour or Democrat, did anyone know they were voting neoliberal? That tells you everything you need to know.
The part at the beginning about the ideas changing but nothing on the ground changing, reminded me of "The German Ideology". Where do "new" ideas like critical race theory and gender ideology fit in? Are they too designed to place the capitalist system on a more secure footing and bolster the economic interests of the ruling economic elite?
The left panders to the working class, placates them, makes them feel like the intention to help exists, when in reality they only enable and validate reich wing policies and terrorism. We need a Direct Democracy without Representatives, who will always be the weak link, where the system that works in principle, does not translate to the real world. It's all a charade
@@uncannyvalley2350 I can see what you're driving at, and the logic is clear. But it is necessary to split the Faux Left charlatans from the 'real' Left < the ideas of which have been uniform, and credible for a long time. Further, Direct Democracy, whilst being open to multiple stances, is itself rooted in the Left < opposed to Establishment control as it is.
To reduce decades of inequality to wealthy gaining capitalist value by finding a new 'idea' to use against workers sounds about right.
Is the control coming from "them"? Or is it us that does not know what money really is or should be?
On the them side there is this:
There is nothing legitimate about a government issuing and then determining the access to the abstract acCounting unit. THAT is not a legitimate function of self governance in a free society.
On the us side there is this:
Compartmental thinking leaves people with the notion that the money system is separate from other things...........it is not. Fix the thinking about and then the structure of money itself and everything else changes.
Every single jurisdiction can adopt the following resolutions in a grass roots process of regaining control over how we do this thing called money. How many in this community can learn this and then work for it?
Presently in our economy virtually all of the accounting numbers/money we are using as a People are borrowed into existence with all that is of real value and labor pledged against it. And these units must go out of existence to stop the accumulation of interest on their use. And even then the compounding that has occurred along the value chain, which creates tremendous and relentless instability, cannot be stopped.
It seems absurd because it is absurd, yet in this the 21st Century we are still not using an economic accounting/credit/number system that gives direct credit to the doer after the doing is done. Many, many rightly point out that in this country the black slave population that basically built such a large part of this country did not get ANY credit for the doing that they did. Indentured servants of many races and places of origin also have been given No Credit for the doing that they did. Most all of the absolute most critical doing that a society needs done is given No Credit in the system we have today. (child care, elder care, environmental care, ….) And still today the very notion that there must be an issuer of the numbers before The People can give and receive credit amongst themselves persists. When one thinks about how rich a society can be if it does not use banks to originate acCounting units but only gives and receives credit for real doing it boggles the mind to think that we are still borrowing the use of the numbers with which we do our acCounting!
We can do something about this by not conceding power to "them" and by reclaiming monetary literacy and bringing these resolutions to every jurisdiction.
www.moneytransparency.com/msta-resolutions
ASK JEREMY CORBYN - HE KNOWS 😑
Neoliberalism is less broadly accepted, but it is imposed anyways.
So why not call this facism? Why still call it capitalism, we are beyond late stage capitalism, no? Or will that occur during the Hyper -Bitcoinization of the global economic system? #elSalvador
Bingo! Capitalism pretty much starts itself in a late stage, far as exploitation is concerned.
#bitcoinfixesthis
Shalom, what part of white supremacist patriarchal capitalism don't you understand ?
I don't care what you do, everything can be gamed, even marxism that you all see so fond of. What we need is direct democracy utilizing blockchain and real time voting. That way when whatever you have gets gamed you can change it or get rid of the person gaming it like the ancient Greeks did. Marxism got gamed, communism got gamed, Capitalism embraces being gamed, socialism seems to recognize that gaming takes place and tries to lessen it by redistributing wealth but allowing gaming to continue. We have finite resources and our genetics predispose us to tribalism, this is a recipe for disaster unless we use all our gray matter to overcome the limbic system and so far we haven't done that.
How the fuck do you know how we all feel. Not smart enough to not lump everyone together? You just couldnt help yourself. But i think you’re right after that. Would be interesting.
I think the whole UK entered into a major major crisis as soon as thatcher was booted. Pun intended.