6.5 Creedmoor - 142gr Sierra Match King with H4350 & IMR4451
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Testing the 142gr Sierra Match King in our 6.5 Creedmoor Thompson Center Compass.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with UA-cam content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Well. It's been six months, Back in October of last year, you were saying that the show was going to be on the skids. I'm glad the see that things are working out and the show has gone uninterrupted. You are far the most comprehensive loading show out there Johnny. I will continue to support your channel through Pateron. Keep up the good spirit and quality source media for the loading community. Dave.
Your presentation and thoroughness is excellent! Best exhibit of 6.5 reloading data on UA-cam.
Great video!! I just want to say THANK YOU for getting me started with my TC Compass, because of your videos I bought this rifle and I have to say it is my favorite rifle to shoot! It is very accurate if you do your part, and with a silencer and good hand load makes for a great range day! Keep up the good work am already waiting for the next video!!
i have learned so much from you, never stop buddy, love this channel!
I tested these two powders in my Rem 700 as well as V100 Hybrid. I had the best data from the V100 at 39.5, 40.0 and 41.0 using Win LR Primers and Starline LP Brass. With 40.0 being the load I settled on. 4451 was a close second. and H4350 was maxed before it started to group well. Thank for the videos I enjoy all of them!
Johnny, I like watching your videos. I hope you stay with it. I am an old reloader and shooter. Please take a moment and watch your own video about how you pull the trigger. From the time the seer releases till the time your finger and trigger hit the brakes is a millisecond, but enough to move the barrel. When you pull the trigger you are all the way up to the first nuckle of your trigger finger. I think if you just use the finger tip so you are pulling straight back, you'll get better groups. I have watched you struggle with 3 good bullet placement and then a flyer or two.... thats all you.
One of my local shops has had it in stock for the past year. My American likes .050 jump. Currently running 42.4g H4350 at 2.860" with 140g ELD's. Getting 2711fps. A past load it also likes is 42.0g H4350 at 2.840" getting 2666fps. Pretty much all my load development had < 1" groups.
Damn, that TC contender is ridiculously good! Looks like throw any amount of either of those powders behind that bullet and it’s happy. Great video man
I just went out and shot my Mossberg MVP-LR in 6.5 creedmoor this past weekend.
Nailed the handloads on the first try. Outstanding rifle and cartridge, 0.265 group with the first hand loads, Hornady 120 gr ELDs.
The 6.5 creedmoor in this rifle is turning out to be the easiest rifle to load for that i've owned.
Great video Johnny. I was very surprised at the velocities you were getting with the H4350. I'm loading Alpha brass with Hornady 140 grain ELD-M, CCI-450 primers and just changed my powder load to 41.3 grains which gives me consistent 2,750 velocity, ~5 SD and ~8 ES and groups in the .368" area. The Hornady bullets love to jump to the lands, so I'm seating them about .040 off, which seems far, but again, they love it. I even went further and anneal after every firing and to me, the one thing that has made a huge difference (even posted a video about it) has been double mandrelling the neck. I bump and expand in separate steps, so when I mandrel the neck, I do two passes, which gives me a neck tension of about .0015 - 0020 inches.
Keep these great videos coming Johnny! Subscribed.
What size mandrel do you use? Also how are you sizing the body/bumping the shoulder? Running the same load as you but with lapua + 143eldx.
@@demitrisolvinski I use a .290 bushing in my sizing die and then a .263 mandrel, but I "double" mandrel...I run it through twice. I end up with about .002" of tension which is a bit light, but that's worked for me. You can see my process for fired brass at : ua-cam.com/video/p7E63dGLKpA/v-deo.html
I really like ur videos showing the groups and speed and SD. Like it
Love hornady custom grade dies, I’ve slowly but surely cut all my rifle dies over to them. Nice to be able to add the micro adjust to any seating die and all the multiple seating stems.
Thanks for this comparison, will also try it with my next loads.
The TC Compass is a very impressive rifle for a very low price. The 6.5 creed is the go to round. Can't wait to see what it does in the AR10 platform.
The Compass is downright amazing. Makes me want to buy one in every caliber they make!
I can't wait to find out how this Ballistic Advantage barrel is going to shoot. We spent a lot of money on the 308 barrel and it's been disappointing so far. If the much cheaper BA barrel shoots lights out in 6.5CM it will be hilarious.
This is the video I have been waiting for!
I use h4350 and hornadys ELD but for some reason always make 1 flyer of 5 shots. And yes I double check all lapua brass, benchrest primers, new barrel, seath depth ok, etc. But 33.5gr of IMR4064 put 5 in one hole and no flyers. Great videos
I'm finding spectacular results with my T/C Compass with the IMR4451. I might actually like it better so far than H4350. The Hornady 140 hpbt bullet really is the golden bullet though- it just shoots like a dream in the Compass!
With that kind of accuracy I wonder what would it happen if you would take some extra steps on brass preparation... I've been reloading for quite sometime for hunting and competition... so there it goes some advices (I guess you are aware of).
I would take a group that has already give a good combo group size/ standar desviation (been Sd the most importat)
Case preparation with flash hole deburring and chanfer.
Weight brass and discard within tolerance of +- 5 gn
CCI Br2 primers ( yeah.... they start to matter at this point)
Vihtavuori gives often better SD values (Although I live in Spain and I'm not having access to IMR powders)
Slighty compress powder charges usually have more uniform burn-> less SD I would rather take a slower powder if it fills the case more (despite lossing some speed)
Always single weight each load, and never remove powder from the pan, If you put to much powder start once again (thats because all digital scales have some grade of play, by only adding powder you king of keep that play on the same side all the time)
(The less variables you put into the ecuation the better, I would remove the magneto Speed and the supressor)
Other things like neck sizing, neck turning and bullet weight segregation I haven't found to be all that much relevant outside the Bench rest world.
Please forget my broken English, I'm working on fix that!
Saludos Johnny :)
Your borescope showed significant erosion on this barrel. Suggestion: Check bullet seating depth again. Seating out closer to contact with the lands could improve group size and velocity.
I’ve been very impressed with the compass and its accuracy for the price
uncle johhny: i do anneal after every firing, makes a huge difference because of neck tension. i also use 4451 and 140 grain match bullets from sierra and hornady. my gun shoots 1/2 groups almost every time. i also make sure i super clean the case neck and primer pocket.
one of my go to loads with the 142gn smk is 40.6gn h4350 at btol:2.200 makes the coal 2.815 or so.. its a good light load to practice with without killing your barrel and still can shoot 1/2 to 1/4 moa with it on a regular basis...
Great job as usual. Thank you
You know something I’d love to see you do, have a .300 norma mag rifle built. I just built one and it is amazing. Brass is kind of pricey but fun over wise, I have an ancient sage of a gun smith uncle and he used a commercial Mauser action and I bought a overstock krieger barrel and he built me a .25 moa rifle.
Cant wait for the AR10 6.5CM vids!
Ive had great luck with the H4350 in 6.5 and .270. And I’ve been pulling my hair out with my Savage .308 too!
With H4350, I new your group would improve with the higher 41.9gn. I load the 140gn. A-Max & ELD's with H4350- 42.0-42.5 (only powder for my 6.5CM RPR), CCI BR 2 primers and I get your ladder group and tighter with no pressure problems. Good vid.
I shot a 0.26” group at 200 yards with 42.5gr of H4350 and 143 ELD-X out of my Tikka Tac A1. No signs of pressure either so I wouldn’t be afraid to go over max. I’m going to try out the 142 SMks soon too
I agree that you needed this 6.5 TCC "Therapy" after your .308 trauma. I would prefer you had bought the Dracos bbl for the AR-10 in 260 Remington. Best of case volume ability and selection of great projectiles. Oh well....
How about a video with H4350 and several different bullet brands and weights to see if the mythical H4350 really is the magic powder for 6.5.
H4350 is magical
Good video Johnny.
From my experience IMR 4451 gives me better SD/ES but doesn't give me as good of groups or velocity as H4350. 4451 still gives me groups of 1/2 MOA or better but not giving the the 1/4 MOA groups I see with H4350.
Going to do further testing with 4451 and RL-16 in 6.5 CM and 300 Win Mag. And see whats best suited.
I love ARs. But glad to see some more bolt action footage.
I just picked up the hornady dies you got, and used them for my savage 12fv build and have great results with them. I'm using peterson small rifle brass varget and 175gr barnes match burners. Consistently shooting 3/4 to 1/2 in groups.
I regret not trying them sooner. I love the seating stem options they give you and the price is amazing. I'm not getting my hopes up that they will fix my 308 problems, but it's worth a try.
Johnny I only got one seating stem with my 308 set did you get more? I know you did with your 6.5 creed.
I only got 1 with the kit as well. I also bought the 178/200/220 ELD-X stem. That's the most frustrating part about these dies. Figuring out which stems come with them seems totally undocumented! If anyone knows how to figure it out I would love to hear about it.
Looks like the 6.5 shooters are just lucky. I've found that even though the seating stem does not fit my 175s very well I'm still getting concentric ammo. Who know all I know is the combo I'm running just works in my rifle. I would try some of the Peterson small rifle brass. 100% worth it.
I like how the seating dies are not cartridge specific but caliber specific, 30 caliber dies and come in short and long for 308,30-06 then short for 300 bo. Same with the .224 same seating die for the .223 and .224 Valkyrie
I really like your vids and watching them all as I shoot distance and reload the 6.5. Do you have a dislike for the H powder? I can't find one that beats it and your results were pretty telling
very good bench shooting skills !!
Great Video brother.
6.5CM H4350 seems to really produce nice results towards the 42 area. With your results step .2 grain from your top load I bet you would find an excellent node before 44, beyond that, I would expect pressure signs.
Very well done video Sir. Subbed.
Great show thank you
I bought an 8lb jug of IMR4451 and what I've noticed is when you get in the top end of the charge weights my SD/ES numbers fall apart and so does the accuracy. Now I can tune the accuracy with seating depth to an extent but I end up having to live with whatever SD/ES numbers I get. My Howa 1500 and my ol lady's T/C Venture in 6.5 Creedmoor loves the 130gr Swift Sirocco 2 and the 140gr Hornady ELD-M but for reasons I still can't explain her rifles will get around 80fps faster velocities with the same bullet and charge weight even though barrel length, twist rates are the same and the bullets hits the rifling within 4 thousandths of each other and I've tried multiple different bullets with the exact same results...
It is clear that H4350 really is as good as the internet lore says it is. I shot 4451 forever with great results, but a kind of weenie load, but it would shoot bug holes. - I built a new custom gun and found 8lbs of H4350 - I'm @ 42.1-42.4 w/ a 140. H4350 shoots better and better the more you put in the case. I noticed the same thing, faster bullets, smaller groups. With no top end. Just keep going.
IMR4451 shot REALLY well (see above) in lower charge weights. I settled on 39.9g (2650fps) but it never really worked any higher than that.
I Load H4350 at 41.5 gr and 42.0 grs. and with both loads I'm in the single digits for both SD and ES. These are my go to loads out of my Savage 12 LRP. I've had pretty good luck with 4451 as well but not as good compared to H4350.
In my tikka tac i seat the 140eldm at 71mm buuuut the 142 to get accurate i need to seat them 69mm with less powder with vitha 550 i load with the hornady 42.4 getting 858m/s to get the same in thec142 sierras 40,9 with vv550 primee large rifle ginex hornady brass
Published data is for LRP that's why your pressures are less. You can load them alot hotter with a small primer.
Good shooting John take the magnetospeed off and you got a bunch of good groups
I make most of my reloading decisions on watching your mistakes. I assume that you're skipping over the reloading where there's no mistakes and everything runs smoothly. Hopefully you're not holding out on us. So far, the best results I've had with my 6.5 TC is with Superformance and 140gr Nosler RDF with a 0.4 moa. The Hornady Match has also been awesome. Waiting for Brownells to restock.
I've got the Hornady "Match Grade" 308 bushing dies both FL and NS, they work very well. $42/ea
Have a video explaining difference of extreme spread vs standard deviation and how you calculate it?
Great vid brother what happen to using the chamber chillers
I was actually using one off camera! I've got a new chamber chiller video coming later today or tomorrow. They sent me something new to play with!
For my .308 rpr I’m getting 1/4 to 1/2 inch group if I my job, using 175 smk and varget, I use a FL honed forster die and mandrel for neck tension, it’s working for me real well, I do anneal every reload.
Mark Hernandez very cool man. Love my forster die. I always wanted to get the honing done sounds pretty interesting.
It is really awesome, I was using a bushing die but honestly I was getting more run out with the bushing die, so I was recommended to get a honed die and a mandrel to create neck tension, just need to get a loaded round to see what is your measurements and subtract around .004 or .005 so you have some cushion for different kind of brass, then a mandrel from redding, I have been using starline brass with good results SD with single digits, only bad thing is primer pockets are not holding up after 6 7 firings, I just got some lapua brass, I heard its really good some people are getting 20+ reloads
Mark Hernandez nice man very cool. Ill have to check that out. Thanks for the info happy shooting!
Hey it might be a good idea to revisit this video. Let's crank up the velocity till we start seeing marks on the brass. For as much as you have in that gun burning out the barrel is nothing. The whole premise of the Creedmoor is Superflat shooting it's going to take high velocity
Joel Clark actually, the whole "premise" to the 6.5CM was to beat the 308 in trajectory over extended ranges. If you take the 168gr matchking loads in 308, they go roughly 2650-2700fps at the muzzle, which at 1000yds translates into 12.0Mils/41.4MOA/474inches of drop and a bullet only going 1049fps once it gets to 1000yds so it's no longer supersonic, and it takes 1.83 seconds to get there. The 6.5CM with a 140gr bullet at 2650-2700fps gets you only 9.5Mils/32.76MOA/382inches of drop at 1000yds and the bullet is still traveling at 1360fps in only 1.4 seconds of flight, so much better exterior ballistics, even when launched at the same velocity. If you want laser beam type bullet trajectories you would want to look at the 6.5/300Wby which will launch the same 140gr bullet as the Creedmoor, but at over 3000fps! Or maybe a 30-378wby, which will launch a 220+gr bullet at 3000fps
What happened to the chamber chiller?
VLD or another reduced drag bullet and how seating depths affects groups
Anybody please answer this is a .260 rem bullet .264 for reloading thanks if u can as we answer
I anneal every time for consistency . oh and those Hornady Match BTHP's shoot bug holes for me in my 308. Love those things.
@Superdude70 yes. 308.
nice shooting
Has anyone compared I4350 to H4350 and found any major differences?
Do you think if you glass bedded
The action & free floated the barrel, groups will tighten up?
Great video! What is the name of the program you use to measure and display the group sizes?
The 4451 looks interesting, I wonder if Bullet seating depth would change or improve the groups .. ? Also would love to see some test with Hunting bullets and the 4451..
Yes, that would be the next step to really nail down a load with this combo. I would take our 2700fps IMR4451 load and test at several OALs to find the best accuracy. Similar to what I did a couple videos ago with the 140gr Nosler RDF. In that test we actually found the RDF liked a shorter OAL!
This definitely isn't the last time you'll see 4451. I'll try and remember to shoot it in the next hunting bullet test I do.
Johnny's Reloading Bench , have you done any hunting bullet test with the 4451 yet ?
Need more 6.5 creedmoor!!
Johnny, I consistently see that you don’t go high enough with the pressure and speeds. The creed really likes 2750-2820. I am using 42.2 H4350. 4451 is also a great powder but very dirty.
Strictly curious....What do you get by pursuing the highest velocity when it often provides the least precision?
I load for 5 calibers with Hornady Dies, And I’m surprised with how well they are made and the quality of ammo they turn out. They are definitely not corrosion resistant though.
Yup, I'm getting some surface rust I need to take care of. My house has been pretty humid this spring so I thought it might just be my environment.
Johnny's Reloading Bench surface rust has always been a problem with good days. I find that the Hornady hot shot case lube spread all over the die inside and out prevents surface rust. Doesn’t hurt anything and is not sticky after it dries. Give that a shot. Thanks for the vid
IMR 4350 is my powder for my .243 and .270 . It does like the upper charges and case capacity.
Hornady 87gr vmax hbpt in .243 and Hornady SST 130gr in .270
Good medicine.
41.7gr of H4350 with 140gr Hornady BTHP match bullets, Hornady neck sized brass with cci LR primers yielded .724" @100y and .933" @ 200y out of a 24" Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Your results seem similar. I don't own a chronograph yet.
Can you compare accuracy between groups when you don't fire "round robin"? First groups barrel cooler, last groups unless you cool between groups will be with a very hot barrel.
Does anybody know how the 6.5 creedmore does on deer. i dont know anything about it.
Hey Johnny do yo7 have any load data for 308 win with 168 hpbt with Mir 4451 or h380 powders
H4350
Eldx 143
Tikka x3 24 inch barrel
44.0 GRAINS H4350
Winchester magnum primer.
Getting 3/4 groups
You're insane for 44 grains... are you even alive 3 years later??
@@demitrisolvinski lighter bullets can take more powder.
I've been loading since 18 I'm 62. Never ever had a problem. It's like almost r
It's like reloading 308. 6.8 Westerner us my next.
Never had any high pressures of primers backing out. Plus I go by the book and I've learned the 6.5 Creedmoore sux.
@@Straightcountry64 I realize that lighter bullets take more powder but 143 is heavy for 6.5, hence my concern for 44gn. If you say creedmoor isn't good, I question your abilities.
Good video man. Ooo this bullet woukd look good in my 260! I should be getting a 6.5 creedmoor soon and I'm thinking the 123 matchking for that.
Slugger_12 why use the 123gr for the creedmoor, when ballistically its identical to your 260rem? Creedmoor is best suited for 130-150gr Bullets with the correct twist.
jimhans1 to get more speed that's all. My custom 260 is already set up for long range shooting with the 147 elds at around 2800 fps (28" barrel) and i was looking at the tikka t3 lite with a 24" tube, should get the 123's at around 2900ish fps... sounds fun anyways. To be honest tho, i just found a good deal on a mossberg mvp lc that may find it's way home with me instead 😁. Should be a nice prairie dog slayer!
jimhans1 oh i should note... i wasn't looking for the creedmoor to be my long range set up. Just a nice reliable, maximum point blank range hunting rifle. I was gonna load it with some 95 gr vmaxes too for ultimate prairie dog devastation 😁
Did you go higher with these charges? Groups seemed to tighten up a bit at the top end and you did not have any pressure signs.
Top load in the books and on Hodgdons website is 40 grns.
Finally shot some Hornady 140 BTHP's with 4451, at 41.4 grains 3-shot group 100 yds, which measured .173" at average velocity of 2606, 42.0 grains, a .407" group at an average velocity 2644...looks promising. Shooting a Ruger American Predator in Magpul Hunter Stock.
So, how long does it take to Recharge the 10,000 Ma/hr. battery in average sunlight?
I'm curious to see if the die change will make a difference in your .308.
Me too! I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
Johnny where can I get a hold of some H4350 that can be shipped to me?
Good stuff. Thanks
You'll see that "cratering" (which is not cratering) with rifles that the firing pin hole in the bolt face is deburred a bit more than necessary.
I have not used H4350 but even my local Academy has it in stock.
op25ttfd That’s amazing. All my Academy carries is CFE223, IMR 4041, and CFE pistol
I've been seeing it more lately but last year you couldn't find it anywhere.
Good shooting johnny
I run this exact bullet. Always been a Sierra fan. Im pushing them at 2736fps with H4350 out of 26” barrel. OAL of 2.870”
Its perfect.
If you have nothing better to do, try Reloder 16. I am getting 2800 fps out of a 22" barrel with the 142 SMK! In fact, I am going to try 23 and 26 too! Reports of crazy speeds and no pressure.
number40Fan yes i have heard. I have actually planned on using Reloader 17.
I get a 2702 fps avg with 41.7 of h4350 from a Ruger American. 2.810 length.
42 or 42.2grains with H4350 !!!
What kind of neck tension do you have.
One key difference from this video to the AR10 series. You’re shooting off a front rest here and the AR10 is off a bipod. Shoot the AR from a rest. Over at Criterion barrels they recommend a rest when shooting an AR for accuracy.
Ashley Palmer a properly built and driven AR can be very precise/accurate from a bipod. Hard to carry a rest with you in the field...
Maybe there’s just a smoother harmonic wave with a bag
@SuperJLarge, no doubt. But there is also no denying that a bipod on a heavier recoiling rifle can open up groups when shot from a hard surface(bench). It also strings shots vertical and in the AR10 series a lot of the groups have a vertical component.
This is very true and it would be worth testing. I'll shoot off a rest in the next video.
However, I really don't think it's going to matter. The Aero Precision M5E1 upper receivers and handguards we used are almost like a monolithic upper. The handguard mounts directly to the receiver without touching the barrel nut at all! For this reason, I can't imagine how a loaded bipod would introduce stresses to the barrel. I am totally certain there's plenty of gas block clearance, so even if I'm inducing some flex I'm certain there isn't contact. I don't know. At this point I'm desperate, so I will try anything! Thanks!
@JRB The reason the bipod causes scatter is due to the recoil dynamics. Same reason you put a coat under your rifle when shooting off a rock or a fence post.
I anneal every firing, as well as use an expander mandrel instead of the stupid expander ball. 2 though tension for anything bolt action or single load
I have to say, 4451 has not been fantastic. I’ve tried dozens of loads and could not get the SD’s right. Good SD’s resulted in poor accuracy. Poor SD’s resulted in good accuracy, but Past 740yds the groups fell apart and made it difficult to hit steel past that distance. I have to say with the 147 ELD-M I’m using RL19 with great results. 1.8” groups at 500yds for five shots. It’s replicated that three times. My SD’s are single digit. My avg. velocity is 2877 from a 32” barrel. This rifle is used for steel match and groundhog matches. Maybe try some slower powders. I would like to see you run some Ramshot Hunter with a 143-147 bullet.
You ought to do a test to see what effect the Magnetospeed has on your accuracy. I use one but wonder how it changes the barrel harmonics. Shoot those last two loads of each again 5 round of each with and without the Magnetospeed on the barrel.
Don Haiker: He has done this. There was no significant difference. If I recall correctly, it was this rifle he experimented with, both the suppressor and the Magneto speed.
He did see a difference on his 6.5 Faxon Faxon barrel with it, but I forget if it was a positive or negative change with the suppressor
Suppressor made better groups. Everything moved POI, but didn't change group sizes.
How many rounds has thus TC seen? I hear all the hype about shooting them out in 2500 rounds, but I'm thinking that you are well above that.
Harold Lewis Johnny's Reloading Bench great job Johnny. How many rounds thru your compass now ? I am thinking under 1500 ?
For annealing ive heard every 2 fireings all the way to 6 firings. So I guess theres no perfect answer
I get Single digit SD with imr 4350 and h 4350
I love 4451
use IMR 4064 for your 308 my magic load 44.5 grains
seems like the 6.5 is the way to go if you had to pick one or the .224..
I can certainly see why the cartridge has become so popular. It's been a lot of fun to shoot and load for.
Different usages. 224valkyrie does everything 6.5creedmoor does just with less energy.
If you do any hunting on animals bigger than coyote the 6.5creedmoor is the clear winner.
Projectiles are available for both thought 6.5 projectiles are more diverse.
with Sierria 165 BTHP
Gotta ditch that suppressor if you wanna go for groups!
YOU SAID IT BACKWARDS. IMR POWDERS ARE FASTER THAN HODGDON OF THE SAME NUMBER
Annealing has the potentially do more damage than good.
Nice!
I thought so! I've been in a good mood since this range trip. :)
That would make a guy feel good. Now how do we fix the the JP Barrel.....
Maybe time to do a favorite loads test from the Thompson on the new 6.5 Creedmoor upper for break-in just to see how she does...
Let's see some ar10 6.5 videos