Just finished mine when I saw the thumbnail, the new art style just tickled me enough for a second go, why not hey, it's Friday! Moists the word and forwards the action!
I look forward to this podcast/chat more than any other right now. When there's so many unfunny football related podcasts out there made by bitter fans making ridiculous statements for clicks n views... James and Flav are a breath of fresh air. Keep up the good work lads! If you guys made even more content together, I know it only be a good thing for all of us 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Then Flav drops in an insane question like "is arteta the worst thing that's happened to the premier league" or something like that... and as a Spurs fan... "It's a great question Jim" 😆😂
I don’t think anyone had a issue with Hendo going over for the Money. The issue was he kept saying it wasn’t for the money but to “Grow the Stature of the league” which was obviously never the case.
Great pod as always boys 👍 On Klopp’s comments regarding “3 clubs can do what they want” - this was from over a year ago, prior to investigations starting, just adding some context
love flav bringing up something thinking it was from this time period cause of his hatred for liverpool even though klopp was exactly right in those comments from a year ago and hed agree
Hate that "you would do it as well" argument. The guy made millions at Liverpool. It's not like he was struggling to top up his pension. Average Joe on the median wage of 34k and making 5 times that much is genuinely life changing.
Agree mate. NEVER understood the "money grabber" arguments from some fans. As if a bloke already earning millions would be motivated by money - weird take. They don't need money lol.
Everyone puts themselves in the situation saying of course I'd go from £30k a year at my menial job to £700k a week even if it meant working for the Saudis. Once you're worth £10s of millions and your family is already set up for generations, it's not exactly the same fucking thing is it. It's such a simple concept, you have to be so stupid or willfully ignorant to think it's at all relevant. Trying to justify that level of vile greed is unbelievable
I think your style of presenting is outstanding, so good it’s up there with the best paid sports presenters on tv and radio. And the best I’ve seen on any UA-cam channel of any category - huge credit
The Klopp quotes were regurgitated. Those quotes came from October 2022 before City were charged. Folk saying they were referring to Chelsea, City, and Man Utd. It was PSG, City and Newcastle which at the time was correct.
Loved the section on FFP. It's the first time in donkeys I've felt positive about the future of the PL. All i would add is that it would a HUGE deal to make sure our clubs are not owned by states going forward, its incredible that FFP looks like it will mean something but giving value to 'fit and proper' would alleviate half these issues in the first place
yeah buts jims idea doesn't make sense, because they're always in the 3rd year because it's a rolling 3 years. so one drops off when u go into next year.
I'm a Newcastle fan and don't think we should be able to spend without restriction. The PL PSR are probably imperfect but it's better than having nothing. Maybe refinement of the rules is required but certainly don't scrap them
Simply need to make it a cap, the same for everyone, so anyone can catch up but noone can vastly outspend everyone else. Clearly by making it linked to existing revenue, it was set up to maintain a status quo and not allow fair competition
Not sure the newcastle fanbase should be bunched up and speak with one voice because we don't. So James calling us all out about unlimited spending is a bit off the mark.
@@fpldirectory6753yet Villa, Spurs, Arsenal etc have never had a problem with it… a cap also makes it totally unfair on small clubs. U want Luton itl to have a chance? Forget it. Brentford, Bournemouth and Fulham would only be itl for a year max and that’s it…
Totally. They just need to balance it so that top 6 teams can’t just continue outspending everyone because they have a more lucrative share of the TV contract they made. There is a balance to be had but throwing the rule book out certainly isn’t it
I think because we have such rich owners & had a lot of success and positive changes so quickly, SOME fans have gotten a bit carried away and are desperate to be the newMan City right now. We were way ahead of schedule finishing 4th & growth isn't always linear. Realistically it's going to take over a decade to establish ourselves as one of the worlds elite clubs. There will be ups & downs, but we will get there - we are inevitable! Just enjoy the ride I say
Bit of good clean fun from a (fairly) recent game I went to the Chelsea vs Wolves game on Christmas Eve. Chelsea handed out club themed Santa hats leading to the Wolves fans chanting "What the fuck have you got on your heads" at the Chelsea fans for a large portion of the 90 leading to much laughter from the Chelsea fans and the removal of the hats. Also shout out for the "We know what you what you are, We can't say it but we know what you are" referring to the infamous "Chelsea rent boys" chant. Excellent work.
Just some facts on Nottingham Forest, in the promotion season the team that got promoted was made up mainly of loans and players nearing the end of their contracts, after the playoff final the first team had just FIVE confirmed players left going into the Premier League so a rebuild was going to happen. In the first season in the Premier League, the club signed 29 players In the Summer/Winter 22/23 window 13 new signings arrived in the 23/24 Summer Window which saw some of the 29 who arrived actually depart and replaced. The most notable failure has been JonJo Shelvey. The Owner Mr Evangelos Marinakis the real one, not the media-created one is very ambitious but also very impatient so along with the signings has also seen a load of changes off-field which has led to some considerable disruption, but that disruption has settled. NFFC in numbers 22 Signings Summer 22/23 season Window 7 Signings Winter Window 22/23 season window 13 Signings Summer 23/24 Season Window TOTAL 42 More actually left the club in the same period but for not much money as they were either at the end of their contracts, loans and academy players released
But they spent too much money on those loans and signings.... Hence why they are getting penalized. Its not about the actual number of players, its about how much they spent on said players.
The thing with Henderson he sold out his character for the money. He made it part of his identity that he was one thing to a certain section that is insanely underrepresented in football. Then all of the players back track during world cup over arm band because they got scared of a yellow card. Then soon after he sells out all of that PR built character, which means a lot to modern footballers because it will then link to revenue streams they can earn via image rights, where the club he signed for deliberately put out a welcome post and crop ONLY a silly little armband because of what a bunch of colours represent. He's a weak willed, sell out and if they don't want the heat, get out the kitchen and don't make efforts to promote yourself be this thing for people, you are a grown adult and have a choice in those things so you need to understand that if you make the effort to become that person... the second you betray that ideal, you will deservedly get all the flak. Also, for the love of football can we please just stop with this nonsense that Henderson went to Saudi as if he was some broke league 2 footballer... He was already set life after playing in the Prem, captain of Liverpool, winning trophies, sponsorship deals... it is beyond disingenuous to act as if he went because he wasn't set for life. Utter nonsense
"Also, for the love of football can we please just stop with this nonsense that Henderson went to Saudi as if he was some broke league 2 footballer..." This is funny thing because when people say "well you would do it" well yeh im on miniumum wage of course i would, but Henderson was going from £190k a week to £350k a week like is that difference worth selling your soul for when youre already rich?
@AdTurnerr so true... like I get when he first signed maybe he wasn't a top earner, but he'd had been at Liverpool since 11/12 season. Wages alone he's probably never been below £80k a week since July 2011. Never mind all the financial deals he'd have had throughout at that time to earn money.
It makes it worse when considering that there's allegedly one or two closeted gay players minimum at England. He's their Captain, or he's meant to be, so what does that say about acceptance behind closed doors?
Yeah Flav completely left out all of that in his complaint about the controversy. Clearly he needed to do more research on the WHY of Henderson getting so much backlash and I totally agree with you. He went from our captain to washed up sell out in one week!
The pod is unreal lads, alot of other places that talk football, where shock value and outragous opinions drive the industry. Not with you two, sensible and level headed chat with genuine opinions. Be a James or Flav in any walk of life! Appreciate it lads.
READ THIS: When discussing Manchester City Flav's demeanor regarding possible punishment after he declared them guilty brought to mind an old movie of hags watching with glee as victims succumbed to the guillotine. One thing he should understand is that there have been no proceedings to date. Instead of carping on 115 charges, if he has read them, he should know they are basically broken down to five major charges with a number of sub-charges under each of these charges. If the EPL were smart they would have kept to 5 charges. KISS - keep it simple stupid. Now Flav, I could sign a complaint today and have you charged with a terrible crime. Salacious news. Doesn't mean it's true and at trial you could be proven not guilty but the stigma would still stick. City is the best run club in the EPL with no debt, great facilities, and done so much for the community in East Manchester. Then you have other teams with large amounts of debt, run down faciltiies, and have spent a billion on players but these teams are "protected" by the EPL and will never be censured for poor fiscal management. Jealousy is the basis of this whole investigation. The traditionally powerful teams like Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and United can't stand being second fiddle to the likes of City who were always the red haired step child. They ignored City when they were mid-table or relegated to lower leagues. When they became the noisy neighbors, these teams took notice and wanted the status quo returned. City winning not only a treble but a World Club Championship in the same calendar year as well as five EPL championships out of 6 in the Guardiola era, has stuck in their craw and they can't stand it. The UEFA investigation found no problem with City's sponsorship deals in their investigation, so it is unlikely the EPL will either. One thing you should be aware of: Sheikh Mansour has billions invested in the British economy - mostly in London. What actions will he take if you mess with his flagship team? Just something to ponder. From a football fan and legal scholar in Tennessee, U.S.A
Bit of good clean fun for you. I was at Southampton vs Cardiff this year (I’m a Cardiff fan) and was right at the front behind the goal. Adam Armstrong scored and proceeded to look me dead in the eyes and shush. I was obviously already completely silent having just seen my team go 2-0 down 9 minutes into the game but appreciated the good clean fun on show
Good clean fun at Hillsborough: When the bloke who sells the programs walks around the stands shouting “PROGRAMS THREE PAAND” you will hear fans dotted around the stand shouting the same back to him: “PROGRAMS THREE PAAND.” No one ever buys one but when someone does a faint cheer moves through the stand. To make it better the bloke never acknowledges it and just continues to shout. What a legend.
A bit of good clean fun at the Football: The collective "WAHEYYY" that goes around the stadium from both sets of fans when the referee/linesman slips over. It brings even the fiercest rivals together.
Typical flav, "everton and nottingham forrest are guilty of 1 charge, manchester city are guilty of 115 charges". Manchester city have not been found guilty yet, thats the whole point of the trial. And we do not know the number of charges and rules broken by either forrest and everton since that information has not been released, weirdly it was only mentioned for man city. By breaking FFP laws across multiple seasons it is definitely greater than 1 charge each though . Also there is a key difference that everton and forrest published their financial reports and its black and white that they broke the rules. Binary. With man city the Prem are charging them with fraud, conspiracy and concealment. Its a completely different situation.
Good clean fun that me and some mates get a good chuckle from every time: screaming “get there” at your players whenever the ball is played long and clearly going out of play. Simple clean and fun
Slightly OT but parachute payments downward is also a flawed system. Speaking from experience as a Vanarama team fan, successful lower-league and non-league teams sometimes actively avoid promotion (i.e. throwing games, downing tools) just so they don't have to spend money and get kicked only to relegate again a season or two later.
James is bang on about being bullet proof. I’m a West Brom fan and we lost Matheus Pereira to Saudi a few years before everyone else, we were all heartbroken because if you know you know. Anyway came out in interview and was like that’s reason I came to England to change my family’s life and I cannot pass up this money. And that ripping off the band aid actually gave him so much more respect from his honesty.
Flav, Klopp's comment about three clubs in world football came around the time of the Newcastle takeover, in October 2022. City had not yet been charged. Absolutely baffling that you can get the timeline this wrong
The issue with it isn't who's breaking the rules, it's the rules themselves. City, Chelsea and United before that bought their success and were able to increase their revenue due to the success. Now anyone who even tries to be remotely competitive either has to keep selling their best players (to said clubs!) or spend and get punished. Meanwhile the top teams who have near enough unlimited revenue compared to the other 14 clubs can just keep spending and spending. Every now and then you get a Leicester, Newcastle, Villa who break into the top 6 until the premier league grinds it to a halt and forces them to sell until they drop back down. It's anti competition and isn't about sustainability at all. Even Everton who have spent poorly were 2nd in the league 20/21 season at Christmas when we were told we now had to sell and couldn't buy. In return we got an injury crisis and dropped to 10th. Same with Newcastle this year. Bought well last year, got injuries this year and now can't spend despite only being at the beginning of building their squad. Villa in the same boat are in a title race but are now dropping off because they need squad depth but aren't allowed to buy. Everton have made money 3 years in a row from transfers with only Brighton and Luton having better net spends but because we're building a stadium (to be more sustainable and profitable in the future!) we're essentially being relegated. Even the charge on Forest is ridiculous! They held out for more money on Johnson for two months and got a better deal for the lad getting the club more money which is a smart move as it makes them a little bit more sustainable! City when they first got money bought a load of flops that didn't work out. They were allowed to spend more and more until they got it right and have now won 4 out of 5 league titles essentially. Chelsea were a top half club before abramovich. The only reason they've escaped FFP is because they were allowed to spend 1 billion and could sell any of the flops to saudi arabia for inflated fees. Man Utd are over a billion in debt which somehow doesn't factor in FFP but can happily spend 90million on Antony because they already had revenue before FFP was introduced. The only way to increase revenue for the smaller teams is to buy better payers, do better in the league getting more prize money and in return getting better sponsorship deals so that they can carry on bringing in money and progressing. The argument that teams shouldn't do what Chelsea and City have done is redundant. The damage is already done. If every team complies with the rules the top 6 will remain the same for the rest of our lives as even though Utd and Chelsea are having poor years they will inevitably spend until they get back up there. Villa and Newcastle will drop down again as they simply can't keep up despite having the finances to do so. Above finances, rules and all else the league is meant to be fair and competitive. That was destroyed the second Chelsea were allowed to buy it and arguably Utd for years before that. FFP only cements that the top remain at the top and the other 14 teams can't keep up. Even with billionaire owners they can't progress meanwhile the top 6 teams can buy whoever they want whenever they want and have the revenue to do so. Even if they get close to FFP City can sell young or squad players for 40 million that won't ever be a first team regular and they're fine again.
FFP should apply to those that already spent billions on their clubs/squads. Give everyone else 10 years of spending whatever TF they want. Then and only then, is there an even playing field. Its too easy at the dawn of ffp for clubs that already bought their trophies to pull the ladder up behind them.
Agreed, Phillips would have made a difference to some team, but bc City has 20 50+ mil players on their squad they can over spend to get him to never play him.
Everton fans aren’t bothered by the charge it’s disproportional punishments to crimes. It’s also that we didn’t over spend on players (in fact we had a profit over the period) it’s to do with the premier league changing the rules on our stadium tax loans part way through our accounts returns. Also we don’t bang on about city as much as you think… we are more banging on about the prem… hope this helps flav. If you actually read around the Everton case instead of being in an echo chamber of twitter you’d know these points.. cheers 👍🏻
We'll put. People that are 'speaking facts' really need to understand the facts and not just read a couple of Twitter replies to form an entire opinion. Everton fans would be open about the club being run terribly for years and years but to continue to punish us because we wanted to build a stadium, had all our funding/money taken away like Chelsea (who were forced to be sold unlike us) and then change the rules so that only we could be fucked is insane.
In regards to Newcastle and us being pissed off at FFP and the argument that it protects the big 6, All of those clubs have had the period in their history that had success which allowed for them to build the foundation which allows them to build. How can a foundation be built when we are being told we have to sell the players we just bought? So we just go around in a circle, buy player plays for 2 years, gets sold. The vast majority of our squad has been with us since we were in the championship, players not good enough to sell on so we re stuck with them. Surely that isn't right? We don't get our new sponsorship money until the start of next season: Adidas etc. But we may be forced to sell our best players rather than being allowed to put that money forward 6 months. It is there to take but we can't access it. The annoyance isn't as black and white of "WHY CAN'T WE SPEND WHAT WE WANT?!". It is the annoyance of only the big 6 clubs have the foundation that allows them to keep their big players while those beneath can't. That is why the "protect the big 6" is a thing.
I get the process thing Jim and it sounds brilliant if that is genuinely true. But I have concerns that they will rearrange FFP at the end of this season and the City/Chelsea charges will just get dropped. Which means that "process" really meant nothing and we are back to square one.
My problem with FFP is that it eliminates the equality of opportunity. The clubs with established fan bases and higher revenue have a massive advantage over all the other Premier League clubs. If a team wants to break into that hegemony, they have to sacrifice pretty much all their talent and funds, and it is not a guarantee they'll succeed. Everton and Forest are the latest examples, but Wolves had to sell all their stars in the summer to balance the books. The best way to increase revenue is to attract more fans, finish in European spots and attract top branding deals. It is extremely hard for other Premier League clubs to do that if there is a cartel perched that the top of the pyramid soaking up all the opportunity. Personally, I'd scrap ffp and just put a spending cap in place per window.
So the clubs who had sustained success. Who themselves put in the graft to build commercial revenue and global fanbases are supposed to be ok with a small club getting a sugar daddy lottery and getting a slice of the action?!? Ffp is there to protect the product and not be drowned by financial doping.
@@TheMercWithMouththat is not true, clubs like man united and Liverpool benefited from money when nobody else had. Take MLB in the US while the Yankees have the most world Series they have only won 7 since the advent of the draft which allows teams that struggle to draft the best talent and they have the larger money pool to spend. This handicap has resulted in constant competition. The big six need handicaps to allow other clubs to close the gap creating competition,but instead they want more money and more power.
@@ZionOrange I only spoke facts. Also united and arsenal are on the ffp watchlist. Why compare to MLB when the sporting environments are different..football is global so needs regulation that's relative. When you talk about clubs benefiting, it's because they've got the global fanbase which was built over years of participating at the highest level. All of sudden lottery winners want to dine at the table of EST big clubs. Everything takes time..look at how clubs like Brighton, Fulham, Brentford etc are doing..they're growing organically. They are still making money, progressing and competing with big clubs..over time there's nothing stopping them from taking that next step. United, Liverpool, arsenal etc all had to start from somewhere.
@@ZionOrangeWhat part isn't true? If you handicap success, why would anyone want to succeed? It's meaningless if you're gifted it by being so bad you get the best pick of young players. American sports leagues are solely for entertainment, not the pinnacle of competition that people then want to watch for entertainment.
Samism here. During a game of texas holdem I managed to confuse the phrases "go get em boy" and "you got it" coming out with "you got em boy". During a silent moment in the game. To make matters worse this was in my first few weeks at uni and I said it in a thick southern American accent. Safe to say I got a few strange looks of my new flatmates.
When Pompey played AC Milan's star-studded 2008-9 team we gave Ronaldinho and Kaka the biggest 'WHO' you've ever heard. So much so that Ronaldinho called it the best atmosphere in world football.
The issue concerning FFP/PRS has emerged because the Premier League altered the deadline for clubs to submit their accounts (by December 31st) late in the game. This is because the current rules will be replaced in August 2024. The Premier League CEO, Richard Masters, this week appeared before the DCMS (Culture Media & Sport) committee AND referred to Everton & NFFC as "small clubs", admitting his true focus is the fabled "top 6 clubs". But this slight was not just limited to Everton & NFFC but the 14 other clubs in the Premier League. What was shocking but not surprising was the number of fans and journalists who defended Richard Masters, The Premier League, and FFP/PRS. They claimed that his words had been taken out of context, which was not the case. His demeanour during the hearing came across as arrogant, and he appeared not to want to be there.
Agree that masters is a dick but none of that let's Forest off the hook for breaking the rules. Having to submit your accounts earlier is annoying for those submitting but they are accounts of the previous year so nothing changes by filing later or earlier
@@samuelloification2749 It seems the PL may of been trying to push NFFC to sell Brennan Johnson to a club he did not want to go to.That is neither impartial nor helpful
@@nichemphill8321 would have been helpful to Forest. They wouldn't have failed FFP. I doubt they tried to force the move as how could they? It's up to the player. They will have just reminded Forest that they needed the money before the deadline and if that meant selling for less than market value so be it
On good clean fun, at villa park following our continued impressive home record we often took the lead early on and has prompted chants of “you’ve seen the villa now f*ck off home” targeted towards the few thousand aways fans that have made the trip. Belting that out 15 minutes into a game always brings a particular smile to my face at the just the pure arrogance of it. I started off as “don’t sing that because they are obviously going to beat us now” fan but I am now converted to a “yea have that, we are so good at football and we’re going to win the lot” fan after scoring a deflected goal to go 1-0 up against a bottom half of the table team who haven’t won in 6 games
FFP is easy to sort out, just use a variant on the sliding scale that Formula 1 uses where the teams at the top more restricted and teams lower down less restricted. With a big jump at 9th onwards because 1-8th get revenue from playing in Europe. 1st-4th = £30m losses allowed. 5th-8th £45m. 9th-12th = £65m. 13th-16th £75m. 17th-20th £90m.
The problem with Jordan Henderson is that he tried so fucking hard to say that he went to Saudi Arabia for everything but the money but that was clearly a bold-face lie. On top of the fact that he did fuck all as a gay rights activist in that country because that would have jeopardized his bag. He hasn't damaged anyone or any cause he's damaged his own reputation for money.
I cant see how FFP helps smaller clubs like villa and newcastle try cement themselves in the top 4 unless there is a rebalancing of the big 6 clubs. Lets remember FFP was brought in to stop clubs going pop, not stopping clubs spending money them or thier owners clearly have. If we are under the illusion that we can build a utopia of equal playing fields where everyone is competitive financially we need to look in the mirror because where on earth is that genuinly the case in any other team sport
Businesses can takes risks with expenditure. Maybe an expected expenditure, it’s the injury list which is the problem. It’s hard to compete with the top. I agree with profit and sustainability but could it not change to a more outside business approach. Regulation is good, but some companies do boom to the top, for example Prime. It’s just the luck of the draw, we were 5th in 2008 above spurs only club revenue and Ashley stripped our value. It was just bad timing but it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Just think there could be some rules similar to the MLS. But I agree with flav, build an infrastructure, it’s just been a struggle this season.
Flav's question about a Saudi offer is disingenuous. If somebody offered me right now (a normal working man) five times my salary of course I'd take it because it fundamentally changes my existence. But that's not what happened, we're talking about a multimillionaire footballer who is already wildly comfortable and so are his family - he can afford to stand by his morals at no real cost to himself.
But is the difference between our earnings and a footballs the same gap between footballer wages and Saudi pro league wages? I don’t know but the difference might be. There’s money and then there’s MONEY.
@@mirkys130 nah i still think that perspective is slightly off. for me its about life changing, being offered 5x my salary now puts me into a position i wouldnt ever have to worry seriously about money. Henderson is already in that position and several levels above that, increasing it more will do what for his quality of life? get him a private plane? a yacht? i think beyond a certain point it's greed
@@lukeEmmo he's worked to get to that position to get more money, wouldn't you? And even if you take the moral high ground 99% of people would take that opportunity regardless. Greed? yeah sure probably but why do you care lol.
@@Restropect1 I'd like to think if i was in Henderson's position I wouldn't do it but I guess you never really know. I care about this decision that he made because he positioned himself as a role model, as the image of the ideal moral footballer, he was something of a personal hero of mine, and then he sold all of that out for more money that wouldn't change his life all that much. I think that's disappointing because whether anyone likes it or not, footballers are role models that young people look up to.
5x times a normal salary about 150k a year makes you well off, after tax probably closer to half that makes you well off, 3 million a month for years makes your family rich for generations
The problem is the rules are fundementally floored! They keep the rich clubs at the top, it was clearly an overreaction after city came in and spent big. So they decided to pull the ladder up and sod the rest. I would much prefer a squad wage and/or transfer budget cap, but that would require all of world football to join in too. On a more selfish note 27:10 yes thats fair enough and I am all in as long we make sure Man City are punished and relegated to the National League! 28:02 But due to Cities prolific over spending Liverpool were not rewarded for being "Smart, regularly for a long time" and we were prevented from gaining more success!
Here's hoping there's a horror show decision against spurs in their next game so James can sit and tell flav why it was fine whilst flav sits quietly and agrees
Imagine hearing as a Chelsea Fan this conversation about FFP for 32 minutes hearing about the gulf between the top 6 and the rest of the league and then this incredible gulf from the premier league to the championship again on that after just losing to Middlesbrough and having a second leg coming up next week that I think is anyone’s game. I recon we should allow Newcastle to spend every single £ they want but just put Todd bowley in charge of transfer targets
Imagine as a Chelsea fan, not seeing the advantage you had by being able to build infrastructure, put in place a youth system and revamp the entire squad (multiple times), before spending restrictions were put in place. You're still reaping the benefits yearly.
Problem a lot of you agree myopic, and don't understand the reason for ffp. Lots of clubs have gotten into trouble cos the rich owners decided they cba anymore
This could be a watershed moment for football. The likes of PSG, Chelsea, City and Utd inflating the market is not the way. How can the argument be about safeguarding the top teams when the rules as they were, were just safeguarding the richest owner?
Bar Jack grealish how are City inflating the market, all the players city have signed down the years anyone could buy, I’m Sure Fergie broke more transfer records than any other manager. Maybe Utd paying £80m for Maguire and £100m for Antony is inflating the market or even Liverpool paying £90m for a donkey, I’m sure I remember City refusing to pay the £70m for VVD at the time, so maybe have another think about it.
@@bobofett3966 I think it’s fair to say players like Ake, Akanji, Gvardiol(undetermined), Nunes, Mendy, Laporte we’re not 40m-60m players. Also when these players have been come obsolete they can just discard and move on or in Cancelo’s case just loan out. Teams outside those three have had to think about these types of moves in the past when City can just buy until they get the formula right. No?
The fact Hendo's not been paid a penny yet by the club is objectively hilarious. I stood up for him a bunch troughout his time at Liverpool but he bantered himself horribly there.
It doesn't matter what FFP rules you put in place until you deal with the real issue, and that's the fact that it's necessary to overspend to compete long-term in the first place. It was inevitable, for example, that after winning the league, Leicester would be stripped and sold for parts. But why? Because the money in football is so unequally distributed that there was no way Leicester could ever match the financial offers of these other teams, or be able to invest in their team in a way that would convince their players that they could compete at the top long term. But there's never any talk of distributing money more evenly, because the big clubs will never go for it. In fact, we've had about 40 years of movement in the opposite direction, from the refusal to share gate receipts, to the formation of the Premier League, to the expansion of the European Cup, and now FIFA getting in on the act as well. All of that money goes to boost the coffers of the teams who already have a massive financial advantage. And ironically, Everton were one of the main instigators in creating the system that prevents them from being able to compete.
Finally a sane comment about this. The rules as they stand serve to enshrine the position of the clubs with the biggest revenue. The rules actively prevent clubs with lower revenue investing the prerequisite amount to increase their revenue, as they are not allowed to spend as much. City and Chelsea built their revenue streams with an unlimited spend before the rules came into effect and now benefit from the fact that other clubs are prevented from doing exactly what they did to establish themselves. Not that this excuses 'old money' either. They too are protected from ever having serious challengers. United have been woeful for ages but their revenue means they can just drop another billion quid on players to have another stab at getting it right. Everton overspent about 6 years ago now and are still paying the price and then some. Everton have been badly run and broke the rules. no sane fan is arguing otherwise. However the rules themselves have the side affect of making clubs' need to spend more urgent if they are ever going to compete, as well as giving 'bigger' clubs far more leeway to correct their mistakes.
If the world of football was reset to zero and all clubs had the same money and started on a level playing field you would still have clubs eventually gaining an advantage purely due to success. If the owners of club A make better decisions than the owners of club B club A will eventually have more success which brings with it better sponsorships, Money, Players etc. Club A could build on that success to dominate club B. Now we are 10 years into the future and Club A has won 4 league titles has a bigger stadium, bigger fan base and can sign better players than Club B. Is this fair or should club A not be allowed to build on their success and use it to their advantage?
@@SuperJJParker The issue with this is that that advantage is now so enshrined that it is basically insurmountable, and we have made it actively harder with rules and regulations for teams who weren't able to capitalise early to ever compete. Even if one of the 'successful' clubs fail, repeatedly (see United and Chelsea currently) they have so much leverage to just spend again and again to finally haul themselves back. I don't deny that the winners should see some advantage, but the scale of that advantage coupled with the current rules has effectively locked everyone else out.
@@seanfitz70 I agree. The problem is clubs already have historical success as huge advantages and I don't think there is a fair way to remove it. If you now decide to bring wage caps in that will mean more money goes I to the owners pockets which nobody wants.
@@SuperJJParker But it's not just that, it's the way that they've actively lobbied to increase that share of the pie. Every decade or so, the big clubs threaten to breakaway if they don't get something else their own way. It used to be that the home and away teams shared the gate receipts for every game. Imagine that. You're Luton, you go to Old Trafford, and you get half of the 75,000 ticket sales. Now Man Utd are still going to make more money over the course of the season, but the point is that it wasn't as much of an advantage. And then the expansion of the European Cup into the Champions League. Qualifying for Europe used to give you a bit of extra revenue and a shot of glory. Now the benefits of regular qualification put you in another stratosphere. It's bad enough in the Premier League where the domestic TV deal dwarfs the CL money, but look at all of the leagues it's made completely uncompetitive. Imagine how much Copenhagen are making every year compared to all of the other Danish clubs. Or Shakhtar in Ukraine. Or any other number of leagues that have basically been destroyed by Champions League money that isn't shared down the pyramid. In Spain, they even had Real Madrid and Barcelona even breaking away from the rest of the league when it came to TV rights until they finally realised that that was awful for the overall competition.
As a NUFC fan, I am frustrated by the lack of signings, but fully accept and understand that FFP is necessary. I do however, feel that the issues surrounding inflation need to be discussed further and some changes to need to be made.
I think the bigger issue is not as described, Newcastle fans wanting to spend all their money - that is a very minority and minority voices in this context, shouldn't be listened to. The main criticism, and not just from Newcastle fans, is that the way FFP is set up heavily punishes teams outside of the top 6. Using the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd as an example of why that isn't the case isn't a good counter either, because they've put their self in that bad situation through their transfer and wage policies.
@@deanc6664Newcastle voted in favour of bringing in FFP. We (City fans) warned everyone what FFP was when it was first put forward. We told you all that it was closing the door to anyone else doing what we had done but nobody wanted to listen. The red cartel shit themselves when they saw what we were doing and put forward FFP to stop it happening again. Ironically (before outcome of our charges), we were the biggest opponents of FFP and may end up being the biggest beneficiary as it's closed the door behind us.
Got a nice little Samism for you lads, straight from the elephants mouth. Filling out my CV as I'm looking for a new job in sports media, *cough cough Jimbo*. I say that I can adapt to work environments like 'a fish to water', obviously getting confused with 'a duck to water' and 'like a fish out of water' serves me right for putting a stupid idiom in my CV. Love the football chat.
As a Boro fan, if City were to be expelled from the Premier League I wouldn't want the EFL to let City in either at L2 or the Championship. It would need to be more serious and a relegation to the Championship would just put City back by a year. Put them in the 7th/8th tier and it will hurt them more.
Super league would be alternative option. Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Napoli, Juventus would be interesting for International football fan. Competition around Asian countries and USA..
Fully agree with the Newcastle part of the pod and believe me I’m not complaining because we were told from day one of the this project that this takes time, to be a top club we were told that this was going to take 5-10 years. However I can understand where people are coming from saying that Man City and Chelsea are being protected by the prem. I don’t see it that way I see it as it’s more unfair on other clubs that have owners that have respected the guidelines whilst the biggest clubs in this league have already broken the rules and are still benefitting off of that. It is just blatantly annoying that the premier league is only keen on awarding clubs that bring in money rather than trying to build competition and ultimately make more money as a league altogether. At the end of the day I’m still happy and don’t really care that city and Chelsea were allowed to do what they want because in reality they are not far on the horizon from us.
One thing I feel gets overlooked when talking about this subject is how much state backed clubs spending massively effects fans throughout the leagues. The more money they have to spend to keep up with the likes of Boley spending 1bn and City, the more ticket prices go up etc.
Flav telling Newcastle that they should grow organically by building revenue and facilities yet Everton building a new stadium is main reason that we’ve been deemed to have lost too much money. The SAME people will try to show off that same brand new stadium as one of the best in the country during the EUROS. We are building a new stadium to bring in more revenue and are getting punished for that same reason. Laughable
In a legal context, cheating typically refers to dishonest practices or fraudulent activities intended to gain an unfair advantage. This can vary across different legal jurisdictions and may involve actions like deception, manipulation, or violation of rules to achieve an illicit outcome, often in the context of examinations, games, or competitions. Laws related to cheating can vary, so it's important to consider the specific legal framework in question.
Can someone please write a script and commission a White Teeth movie? Or Netflix mini-series. I’ve heard Flav reference it on the cock (should elaborate (Fighting Cock)) a couple of times, but I went back and listened to the whole story this week. The story needs to be developed and I need to watch this.
I think what everyone doesn't realise with Hendo is that these Saudi money giants want to promote their league, and are watching what is said with a keen eye. If he goes into an interview and says anything along the lines of "I can't turn down this money" and gives no other messaging then they aren't going to like that at all. I know it fell through in the end but we need to understand there isn't a perfect world were people are honest about these moves, and it's because of how what someone can say can then affect themselves or situations around them. We all want to hear it, but it just can't happen unfortunately. Great pod as always fellas! 👍
The rules do say you can backdate a deal if it was delayed to get a better deal. It's not "you know the rules, deal with it" it's allowed in the rules.
As for Forest, we've all had overdrafts and we all know what happens when you buy something and go over the overdraft. I can't say to HSBC, yeah I went well over the limit but 2 months later I was fine so I shouldn't be charged. These clubs were well beyond the *allowed* excess debt cleared. They weren't dipping into the red.
I would like to see FFP enable clubs with smaller revenues to overspend slightly. I think they should be able to exceed FFP by a certain percentage of their revenue compared to the top revenue in the league. For instance, if the largest club in the league bring in 700m a year, but you bring in only 100m a year, you should be able to spend an additional 60m (10% of the gap in revenue). This would facilitate more rapid growth to challenge the top clubs. I understand that this may reduce the stability of clubs so accept that this isn’t a perfect solution. The problem is you’re in a catch 22 where you need good revenue to build a good team, but need a good team to grow the brand and build a bigger revenue. People love to bring up Brighton, but forget that just a few years ago Leicester were the shining example of how to run a club and where are they now? Just a few bad windows/transfers and that’s it, you’re done. I used to feel that to have any chance of achieving anything, my club would need a huge takeover; now I feel there is nothing that would bring us to the top.
Integrity is largely internal, not external. Do YOU adhere to the values and principles you espouse publicly via your visible actions ? Why ? A: Doing so allows you to not be a hypocrite. It gains yourself self respect ... with yourself first and foremost ... when you adhere to a set of well thought out values that are important to you. It allows you ignore the vagaries of cultural trends to provide a firm basis for your decision making. The fact people with integrity can be perceived by others as having integrity is function of others observing consistency and constancy in one's behavior but ... that's all a by product of having integrity with yourself.
this pod as class, really agreed with pretty much everything youve said which is pretty rare for me, and im a city fan so, but also i said a bad comment on flav here a feq months ago just because he said something i thought as nonesence, he both speaks well and is funny and your dynamic is very good, so yeah sorry flav, great pod
My club (Spurs) felt the affects of missing out on top 4 money at the birth of the premier league haunted them for many years but now are perfectly placed to grow with FFP biting and I believe we will witness the club fly like a phoenix
The main gripe of NUFC fans and fans of the “other 14” is that you are permitted to make losses of up to £105m over a rolling 3 seasons but that was the case in 2014 too. Football inflation hasn’t affected the permitted losses within FFP, why not?!! Only being allowed to make a loss of £105m is squeezing the “other 14” much more than the “big 6” which is essentially closing the shop and serving the traditional “big 6” much better. Therefore the current rules are not fit for purpose because it’s pretty much impossible to make a sustained entry into the echelons of the UCL/EL or even just flip flop between the two competitions like Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal have for the last 10 years
One thing I will say, I’m still frustrated with how £300m spent that wasn’t Everton’s fault is just dismissed by many. £250m that we were forced to spend due to the sponsor who was meant to pay that £250m being Russian. Due to the war in Ukraine, he was no longer able to pay that. Obviously unforeseen, not intentional spending and not the club’s fault. Then an extra £50m for what we paid for Sigurdson and his contract we had to terminate early and not gain anything back from either selling him or not gaining due to him being a decent player, because of the allegations made towards him. Obviously not the club’s fault if a player commits alleged crimes etc. Everton wouldn’t have overspent if these things didn’t happen and there wouldn’t have been a problem without these things happening. I find it very unfair for that £300m to count in everyone saying “ooh you broke the rules” etc when it should have been written off. The Premier League also declared that Everton gained no sporting advantage from the spending either which everyone seems to have forgotten. Obviously the club is still horribly run and I’m not saying that we are absolutely blameless, the owner Moshiri is an awful owner, all I’m saying is if that £300m would have rightly been written off then none of this would have happened.
Respect your feelings as a fan, but FFP is worked off a club's accounts. Money in, money out. Should\could\might aren't in a balance sheet.. As to no sporting advantage, consensus is this was to prevent Everton getting sued. Why we say this, any money spent by a football club is to gain sporting advantage. Bigger stadium= more money= better quality players. That's an advantage over smaller club stadia. On the pitch advantage, I'd agree. But no sporting advantage? Why build the stadium then if not to get sporting advantage?
I'm an evertonian, at the end of the day our board have fucked up and therefore however much it sucks for us fans we have to account for it. All I want is consistency, if city walk free (the leaked emails alone prove they cheated) because their ability to drag their case out for almost a decade. Then surely we have to ask, are the rules the same for the big 6 clubs as they are for the rest?
Good Clean Fun: Non-League edition. Harassing the officials is usually done by just chants or gestures but at non league some grounds allow free movement of fans along the touch line. My dad, a Vicar, on multiple occasions has followed a linesmen up and down the touch line questioning his decisions and shouting abuse. Infront of 2,000 people I watched my dad dressed in his Vicar outfit get escorted by stewards out of the ground. Not so clean but good fun. His other personal favourite chants are if the goalie is in any brightly coloured kit. “we can see you in the dark” or if they are not in peak athletic condition “have you ever seen a salad, ever seen a salad, ever seen a salad have you fuck” / “who ate all the pies, who ate all the pies, you fat bastard, you fat bastard, you ate all the pies”
Newcastle had a massive fight to sell the club and be taken over. No top 6 club wanted it - obviously. NUFC finish 4th. First time someone not in top 6 finishes in UCL place in decades (Leicester miracle aside) FFP shows teeth Villa will disrupt it this season, too. Which is a great thing as the fact it was getting shared about between 6 clubs was sickening. I question the timing of "teeth," but then again, if Newcastle didn't have the mental injuries we have, I probably wouldn't care as much 😂
I'm aware that this is a super long comment and I don't expect you to read it or care. I also don't want to give the impression that I'm judging either of you before criticising what you said in this episode; I'm aware this podcast is light-hearted and off-the-cuff, and that's part of the reason I really enjoy watching. I just felt I should get this off my chest. Obviously you're entitled to your views, but the first 15 minutes of this one was very strange for me to listen to. RE: The Henderson stuff, I get what you are both saying about the money being the deciding factor and I'm sure we'd all find it very difficult to turn down, but Flav saying that we shouldn't hold footballers to moral standards in the same way as politicians is very misguided imo. Everyone should expect to be held to moral standards in the eyes of others (and indeed by themselves, frankly), including people like myself with no platform or visibility. Henderson, a man that already has huge wealth, privilege, and visibility, on top of his basic responsibilities just as a human being in our society, then went out of his way to promote himself (his brand) as being a spokesperson for LGBTQ+ rights and/or representation,. Therefore, he's the one who has ultimately lent more weight to the criticism levied against him. You mentioned the interview Henderson did in the Athletic making it a worse situation than it otherwise would've been, and I agree with you, but part of that interview that wasn't mentioned here (but should be in this discussion) was his downplaying of human rights abuses in the Middle East (in Qatar and Saudi Arabia) where he undermined the reporting of human rights organisations like Amnesty International, and that is just plainly inexcusable. It seems pretty straightforward to me that his words and actions have warranted plenty of criticism. RE: The comedy discussion, it was also a bit odd to listen to. Yes, Dapper Laughs was interviewed on Newsnight and yes, that interview was prompted by one tweet/joke going viral. However, the reason for that media storm was that the one joke prompted people who had never heard of him to look at his general act, which was oriented around men, women, and dating and often took the form of giving men 'advice' on how to date women. These advice videos included a lot of misogynistic insults of women in general and jokes about date rape, which, when presented in the way that he was presenting them, was and is extremely dangerous. It is understandable that he'd be held to account on that issue at the time considering he'd just been given a show (again, oriented around giving dating advice to men seeking women) on mainstream television, which is subject to tight regulations that content on the internet doesn't have to abide by. Also, Frankie Boyle *also* had a Newsnight section devoted to him and he was subsequently removed from Mock the Week. Since that time, he has chosen to rebrand himself and move away from a lot of his most offensive topics for humour, so he is a bad example of someone who 'got away with it by not apologising'. Similarly, with Ricky Gervais, I don't really know what James was talking about with Gervais' jokes being bullet-proof in terms of who the butt of the joke is; Ricky's recent sets have included jokes targeted at asylum seekers and transgender people (I don't really see how targeting those people is bulletproof, besides him being unlikely to be criticised by a media that also targets those groups), but happy to give James the benefit of the doubt on that one because he didn't really explain what he meant as he was just using it as an analogy to apply to Henderson. Anyway, those are just my thoughts.
Everton sold 160 million pounds worth of players only spent 55 then got punished for the stadium interest rates which the league told them prior to the build wouldn't go against the accounts ...joke
Interestingly LIV golf players were saying "we're going to grow the game" which everyone crapped on. Then some realised and came out and just said "yeah, it's for the generational wealth type money" and people understood that more. Also interestingly the anti LIV golf was because people claimed it was "Sports washing" and that Saudi money was blood money. The reality was that vested interests were pushing this to defend the status quo of the PGA. And we just saw Rory Macilroy played in the Saudi invitational... and PIF invests in in an enormous amount of brands everyone uses and no one cares about.
One of the biggest things that is wrong with FFP for me is the fact they incentivise selling home grown talent as they make more profit. As football fans we want local lads coming through and playing for our teams for years to come. We had this growing up but now because of FFP this will become very rare. This part of FFP needs changing.
An 8am Friday JAFFN, I was already at half mast but my morning stonker just rose to new heights never seen before
If you try to tuck it in your waistband does it poke out your shirt collar?
@@NewscorpPhoneHackingDepartment I’m basically self noshing at my desk
What a comment - bravo sir 👏🏼
Ahh yes the familiar JAFFN salute , I see you my slug
Just finished mine when I saw the thumbnail, the new art style just tickled me enough for a second go, why not hey, it's Friday!
Moists the word and forwards the action!
I look forward to this podcast/chat more than any other right now.
When there's so many unfunny football related podcasts out there made by bitter fans making ridiculous statements for clicks n views... James and Flav are a breath of fresh air.
Keep up the good work lads! If you guys made even more content together, I know it only be a good thing for all of us 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Then Flav drops in an insane question like "is arteta the worst thing that's happened to the premier league" or something like that... and as a Spurs fan... "It's a great question Jim" 😆😂
I don’t think anyone had a issue with Hendo going over for the Money.
The issue was he kept saying it wasn’t for the money but to “Grow the Stature of the league” which was obviously never the case.
He was already getting blasted when he made the move, that's why he did the interview
The big thing for me was him saying all about how he cares for the LGBT community, then goes somewhere that you will be killed for being gay.
Ronaldo said the same thing and yet people are praising him.
@@nont18411 the people praising Ronaldo aren’t the same ones who are criticising Henderson
@@liamhardman875I don't get why anyone was bothered to begin with
Great pod as always boys 👍 On Klopp’s comments regarding “3 clubs can do what they want” - this was from over a year ago, prior to investigations starting, just adding some context
love flav bringing up something thinking it was from this time period cause of his hatred for liverpool even though klopp was exactly right in those comments from a year ago and hed agree
Thank you. Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant hey?
Hate that "you would do it as well" argument.
The guy made millions at Liverpool. It's not like he was struggling to top up his pension.
Average Joe on the median wage of 34k and making 5 times that much is genuinely life changing.
Agree mate. NEVER understood the "money grabber" arguments from some fans. As if a bloke already earning millions would be motivated by money - weird take. They don't need money lol.
right? the added value of those wages for a multimillionaire is not the same as for a random person, idk why everyone keeps pretending it's the same
Everyone puts themselves in the situation saying of course I'd go from £30k a year at my menial job to £700k a week even if it meant working for the Saudis. Once you're worth £10s of millions and your family is already set up for generations, it's not exactly the same fucking thing is it. It's such a simple concept, you have to be so stupid or willfully ignorant to think it's at all relevant. Trying to justify that level of vile greed is unbelievable
I think your style of presenting is outstanding, so good it’s up there with the best paid sports presenters on tv and radio. And the best I’ve seen on any UA-cam channel of any category - huge credit
Bum lick
It’s enjoyable, but far too many adverts. Probably the most excessive video I’ve seen in a long time.
The Klopp quotes were regurgitated. Those quotes came from October 2022 before City were charged.
Folk saying they were referring to Chelsea, City, and Man Utd.
It was PSG, City and Newcastle which at the time was correct.
Loved the section on FFP. It's the first time in donkeys I've felt positive about the future of the PL. All i would add is that it would a HUGE deal to make sure our clubs are not owned by states going forward, its incredible that FFP looks like it will mean something but giving value to 'fit and proper' would alleviate half these issues in the first place
yeah buts jims idea doesn't make sense, because they're always in the 3rd year because it's a rolling 3 years. so one drops off when u go into next year.
I'm a Newcastle fan and don't think we should be able to spend without restriction. The PL PSR are probably imperfect but it's better than having nothing. Maybe refinement of the rules is required but certainly don't scrap them
Simply need to make it a cap, the same for everyone, so anyone can catch up but noone can vastly outspend everyone else. Clearly by making it linked to existing revenue, it was set up to maintain a status quo and not allow fair competition
Not sure the newcastle fanbase should be bunched up and speak with one voice because we don't. So James calling us all out about unlimited spending is a bit off the mark.
@@fpldirectory6753yet Villa, Spurs, Arsenal etc have never had a problem with it… a cap also makes it totally unfair on small clubs. U want Luton itl to have a chance? Forget it. Brentford, Bournemouth and Fulham would only be itl for a year max and that’s it…
Totally. They just need to balance it so that top 6 teams can’t just continue outspending everyone because they have a more lucrative share of the TV contract they made. There is a balance to be had but throwing the rule book out certainly isn’t it
I think because we have such rich owners & had a lot of success and positive changes so quickly, SOME fans have gotten a bit carried away and are desperate to be the newMan City right now. We were way ahead of schedule finishing 4th & growth isn't always linear. Realistically it's going to take over a decade to establish ourselves as one of the worlds elite clubs. There will be ups & downs, but we will get there - we are inevitable! Just enjoy the ride I say
Bit of good clean fun from a (fairly) recent game
I went to the Chelsea vs Wolves game on Christmas Eve. Chelsea handed out club themed Santa hats leading to the Wolves fans chanting "What the fuck have you got on your heads" at the Chelsea fans for a large portion of the 90 leading to much laughter from the Chelsea fans and the removal of the hats.
Also shout out for the "We know what you what you are, We can't say it but we know what you are" referring to the infamous "Chelsea rent boys" chant. Excellent work.
Just some facts on Nottingham Forest, in the promotion season the team that got promoted was made up mainly of loans and players nearing the end of their contracts, after the playoff final the first team had just FIVE confirmed players left going into the Premier League so a rebuild was going to happen.
In the first season in the Premier League, the club signed 29 players In the Summer/Winter 22/23 window 13 new signings arrived in the 23/24 Summer Window which saw some of the 29 who arrived actually depart and replaced. The most notable failure has been JonJo Shelvey.
The Owner Mr Evangelos Marinakis the real one, not the media-created one is very ambitious but also very impatient so along with the signings has also seen a load of changes off-field which has led to some considerable disruption, but that disruption has settled.
NFFC in numbers
22 Signings Summer 22/23 season Window
7 Signings Winter Window 22/23 season window
13 Signings Summer 23/24 Season Window
TOTAL 42
More actually left the club in the same period but for not much money as they were either at the end of their contracts, loans and academy players released
But they spent too much money on those loans and signings.... Hence why they are getting penalized. Its not about the actual number of players, its about how much they spent on said players.
The thing with Henderson he sold out his character for the money.
He made it part of his identity that he was one thing to a certain section that is insanely underrepresented in football.
Then all of the players back track during world cup over arm band because they got scared of a yellow card.
Then soon after he sells out all of that PR built character, which means a lot to modern footballers because it will then link to revenue streams they can earn via image rights, where the club he signed for deliberately put out a welcome post and crop ONLY a silly little armband because of what a bunch of colours represent.
He's a weak willed, sell out and if they don't want the heat, get out the kitchen and don't make efforts to promote yourself be this thing for people, you are a grown adult and have a choice in those things so you need to understand that if you make the effort to become that person... the second you betray that ideal, you will deservedly get all the flak.
Also, for the love of football can we please just stop with this nonsense that Henderson went to Saudi as if he was some broke league 2 footballer...
He was already set life after playing in the Prem, captain of Liverpool, winning trophies, sponsorship deals... it is beyond disingenuous to act as if he went because he wasn't set for life. Utter nonsense
"Also, for the love of football can we please just stop with this nonsense that Henderson went to Saudi as if he was some broke league 2 footballer..." This is funny thing because when people say "well you would do it" well yeh im on miniumum wage of course i would, but Henderson was going from £190k a week to £350k a week like is that difference worth selling your soul for when youre already rich?
@AdTurnerr so true... like I get when he first signed maybe he wasn't a top earner, but he'd had been at Liverpool since 11/12 season.
Wages alone he's probably never been below £80k a week since July 2011.
Never mind all the financial deals he'd have had throughout at that time to earn money.
It makes it worse when considering that there's allegedly one or two closeted gay players minimum at England. He's their Captain, or he's meant to be, so what does that say about acceptance behind closed doors?
Yeah Flav completely left out all of that in his complaint about the controversy. Clearly he needed to do more research on the WHY of Henderson getting so much backlash and I totally agree with you. He went from our captain to washed up sell out in one week!
The pod is unreal lads, alot of other places that talk football, where shock value and outragous opinions drive the industry. Not with you two, sensible and level headed chat with genuine opinions. Be a James or Flav in any walk of life! Appreciate it lads.
READ THIS:
When discussing Manchester City Flav's demeanor regarding possible punishment after he declared them guilty brought to mind an old movie of hags watching with glee as victims succumbed to the guillotine. One thing he should understand is that there have been no proceedings to date. Instead of carping on 115 charges, if he has read them, he should know they are basically broken down to five major charges with a number of sub-charges under each of these charges. If the EPL were smart they would have kept to 5 charges. KISS - keep it simple stupid. Now Flav, I could sign a complaint today and have you charged with a terrible crime. Salacious news. Doesn't mean it's true and at trial you could be proven not guilty but the stigma would still stick.
City is the best run club in the EPL with no debt, great facilities, and done so much for the community in East Manchester. Then you have other teams with large amounts of debt, run down faciltiies, and have spent a billion on players but these teams are "protected" by the EPL and will never be censured for poor fiscal management.
Jealousy is the basis of this whole investigation. The traditionally powerful teams like Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and United can't stand being second fiddle to the likes of City who were always the red haired step child. They ignored City when they were mid-table or relegated to lower leagues. When they became the noisy neighbors, these teams took notice and wanted the status quo returned. City winning not only a treble but a World Club Championship in the same calendar year as well as five EPL championships out of 6 in the Guardiola era, has stuck in their craw and they can't stand it. The UEFA investigation found no problem with City's sponsorship deals in their investigation, so it is unlikely the EPL will either. One thing you should be aware of: Sheikh Mansour has billions invested in the British economy - mostly in London. What actions will he take if you mess with his flagship team? Just something to ponder.
From a football fan and legal scholar in Tennessee, U.S.A
Bit of good clean fun for you. I was at Southampton vs Cardiff this year (I’m a Cardiff fan) and was right at the front behind the goal. Adam Armstrong scored and proceeded to look me dead in the eyes and shush. I was obviously already completely silent having just seen my team go 2-0 down 9 minutes into the game but appreciated the good clean fun on show
Good clean fun at Hillsborough: When the bloke who sells the programs walks around the stands shouting “PROGRAMS THREE PAAND” you will hear fans dotted around the stand shouting the same back to him: “PROGRAMS THREE PAAND.” No one ever buys one but when someone does a faint cheer moves through the stand. To make it better the bloke never acknowledges it and just continues to shout. What a legend.
A bit of good clean fun at the Football: The collective "WAHEYYY" that goes around the stadium from both sets of fans when the referee/linesman slips over. It brings even the fiercest rivals together.
Always class
Typical flav, "everton and nottingham forrest are guilty of 1 charge, manchester city are guilty of 115 charges".
Manchester city have not been found guilty yet, thats the whole point of the trial.
And we do not know the number of charges and rules broken by either forrest and everton since that information has not been released, weirdly it was only mentioned for man city. By breaking FFP laws across multiple seasons it is definitely greater than 1 charge each though .
Also there is a key difference that everton and forrest published their financial reports and its black and white that they broke the rules. Binary. With man city the Prem are charging them with fraud, conspiracy and concealment. Its a completely different situation.
Just checking in
That rendition of Newcastle's chant was absolutely tragic btw James
Good clean fun that me and some mates get a good chuckle from every time: screaming “get there” at your players whenever the ball is played long and clearly going out of play. Simple clean and fun
good clean fun: the obligatory "you don't know what you're doing" chants, when someone proposes on the pitch at half-time
Slightly OT but parachute payments downward is also a flawed system. Speaking from experience as a Vanarama team fan, successful lower-league and non-league teams sometimes actively avoid promotion (i.e. throwing games, downing tools) just so they don't have to spend money and get kicked only to relegate again a season or two later.
They don't have to spend money, why just being a shit promoted side so wrong? Save the money, go down come back stronger later 💪
@@otto_jk you have to buy better players to keep up in a stronger higher league, obviously.
James is bang on about being bullet proof. I’m a West Brom fan and we lost Matheus Pereira to Saudi a few years before everyone else, we were all heartbroken because if you know you know. Anyway came out in interview and was like that’s reason I came to England to change my family’s life and I cannot pass up this money. And that ripping off the band aid actually gave him so much more respect from his honesty.
Flav, Klopp's comment about three clubs in world football came around the time of the Newcastle takeover, in October 2022. City had not yet been charged. Absolutely baffling that you can get the timeline this wrong
Flav has a history of hating Klopp. Wouldn’t want the truth to get in the way of his hatred.
@@thetraveldrunkhe just hates liverpool full stop. admitted it multiple times
@@genuardi22 He's just jealous that Liverpool are the club he wishes his was.
The issue with it isn't who's breaking the rules, it's the rules themselves. City, Chelsea and United before that bought their success and were able to increase their revenue due to the success. Now anyone who even tries to be remotely competitive either has to keep selling their best players (to said clubs!) or spend and get punished. Meanwhile the top teams who have near enough unlimited revenue compared to the other 14 clubs can just keep spending and spending. Every now and then you get a Leicester, Newcastle, Villa who break into the top 6 until the premier league grinds it to a halt and forces them to sell until they drop back down. It's anti competition and isn't about sustainability at all.
Even Everton who have spent poorly were 2nd in the league 20/21 season at Christmas when we were told we now had to sell and couldn't buy. In return we got an injury crisis and dropped to 10th. Same with Newcastle this year. Bought well last year, got injuries this year and now can't spend despite only being at the beginning of building their squad. Villa in the same boat are in a title race but are now dropping off because they need squad depth but aren't allowed to buy. Everton have made money 3 years in a row from transfers with only Brighton and Luton having better net spends but because we're building a stadium (to be more sustainable and profitable in the future!) we're essentially being relegated. Even the charge on Forest is ridiculous! They held out for more money on Johnson for two months and got a better deal for the lad getting the club more money which is a smart move as it makes them a little bit more sustainable!
City when they first got money bought a load of flops that didn't work out. They were allowed to spend more and more until they got it right and have now won 4 out of 5 league titles essentially. Chelsea were a top half club before abramovich. The only reason they've escaped FFP is because they were allowed to spend 1 billion and could sell any of the flops to saudi arabia for inflated fees. Man Utd are over a billion in debt which somehow doesn't factor in FFP but can happily spend 90million on Antony because they already had revenue before FFP was introduced.
The only way to increase revenue for the smaller teams is to buy better payers, do better in the league getting more prize money and in return getting better sponsorship deals so that they can carry on bringing in money and progressing. The argument that teams shouldn't do what Chelsea and City have done is redundant. The damage is already done. If every team complies with the rules the top 6 will remain the same for the rest of our lives as even though Utd and Chelsea are having poor years they will inevitably spend until they get back up there. Villa and Newcastle will drop down again as they simply can't keep up despite having the finances to do so.
Above finances, rules and all else the league is meant to be fair and competitive. That was destroyed the second Chelsea were allowed to buy it and arguably Utd for years before that. FFP only cements that the top remain at the top and the other 14 teams can't keep up. Even with billionaire owners they can't progress meanwhile the top 6 teams can buy whoever they want whenever they want and have the revenue to do so. Even if they get close to FFP City can sell young or squad players for 40 million that won't ever be a first team regular and they're fine again.
FFP should apply to those that already spent billions on their clubs/squads. Give everyone else 10 years of spending whatever TF they want. Then and only then, is there an even playing field.
Its too easy at the dawn of ffp for clubs that already bought their trophies to pull the ladder up behind them.
10 years to spend what they want..is the best way for corruption to takeover.
Agreed, Phillips would have made a difference to some team, but bc City has 20 50+ mil players on their squad they can over spend to get him to never play him.
This one is defo a banger. Literally the first content I’ve watched about this issue free of ulterior motives and clickbait.
World wide audience!
I am a Romanian expat living in Amsterdam watching the show for a few years now.
Everton fans aren’t bothered by the charge it’s disproportional punishments to crimes. It’s also that we didn’t over spend on players (in fact we had a profit over the period) it’s to do with the premier league changing the rules on our stadium tax loans part way through our accounts returns. Also we don’t bang on about city as much as you think… we are more banging on about the prem… hope this helps flav. If you actually read around the Everton case instead of being in an echo chamber of twitter you’d know these points.. cheers 👍🏻
We'll put. People that are 'speaking facts' really need to understand the facts and not just read a couple of Twitter replies to form an entire opinion.
Everton fans would be open about the club being run terribly for years and years but to continue to punish us because we wanted to build a stadium, had all our funding/money taken away like Chelsea (who were forced to be sold unlike us) and then change the rules so that only we could be fucked is insane.
Exactly. That and the Everton case is totally different to city's.
Awfully worded comment. Very arsey sounding. 👍 these never help. 👍
@whatwhat9110 sorry you didn't understand it
@@freerogertweedle3900fully understood. “Hope this helps flav” arsey
In regards to Newcastle and us being pissed off at FFP and the argument that it protects the big 6, All of those clubs have had the period in their history that had success which allowed for them to build the foundation which allows them to build. How can a foundation be built when we are being told we have to sell the players we just bought? So we just go around in a circle, buy player plays for 2 years, gets sold. The vast majority of our squad has been with us since we were in the championship, players not good enough to sell on so we re stuck with them. Surely that isn't right?
We don't get our new sponsorship money until the start of next season: Adidas etc. But we may be forced to sell our best players rather than being allowed to put that money forward 6 months. It is there to take but we can't access it. The annoyance isn't as black and white of "WHY CAN'T WE SPEND WHAT WE WANT?!". It is the annoyance of only the big 6 clubs have the foundation that allows them to keep their big players while those beneath can't. That is why the "protect the big 6" is a thing.
I get the process thing Jim and it sounds brilliant if that is genuinely true. But I have concerns that they will rearrange FFP at the end of this season and the City/Chelsea charges will just get dropped. Which means that "process" really meant nothing and we are back to square one.
My problem with FFP is that it eliminates the equality of opportunity. The clubs with established fan bases and higher revenue have a massive advantage over all the other Premier League clubs. If a team wants to break into that hegemony, they have to sacrifice pretty much all their talent and funds, and it is not a guarantee they'll succeed. Everton and Forest are the latest examples, but Wolves had to sell all their stars in the summer to balance the books. The best way to increase revenue is to attract more fans, finish in European spots and attract top branding deals. It is extremely hard for other Premier League clubs to do that if there is a cartel perched that the top of the pyramid soaking up all the opportunity. Personally, I'd scrap ffp and just put a spending cap in place per window.
So the clubs who had sustained success. Who themselves put in the graft to build commercial revenue and global fanbases are supposed to be ok with a small club getting a sugar daddy lottery and getting a slice of the action?!?
Ffp is there to protect the product and not be drowned by financial doping.
@@TheMercWithMouththat is not true, clubs like man united and Liverpool benefited from money when nobody else had. Take MLB in the US while the Yankees have the most world Series they have only won 7 since the advent of the draft which allows teams that struggle to draft the best talent and they have the larger money pool to spend. This handicap has resulted in constant competition.
The big six need handicaps to allow other clubs to close the gap creating competition,but instead they want more money and more power.
@@ZionOrange I only spoke facts. Also united and arsenal are on the ffp watchlist. Why compare to MLB when the sporting environments are different..football is global so needs regulation that's relative. When you talk about clubs benefiting, it's because they've got the global fanbase which was built over years of participating at the highest level.
All of sudden lottery winners want to dine at the table of EST big clubs. Everything takes time..look at how clubs like Brighton, Fulham, Brentford etc are doing..they're growing organically. They are still making money, progressing and competing with big clubs..over time there's nothing stopping them from taking that next step. United, Liverpool, arsenal etc all had to start from somewhere.
@@ZionOrangeWhat part isn't true?
If you handicap success, why would anyone want to succeed? It's meaningless if you're gifted it by being so bad you get the best pick of young players.
American sports leagues are solely for entertainment, not the pinnacle of competition that people then want to watch for entertainment.
@dakopper77 you go for a big club don't you lad
Samism here. During a game of texas holdem I managed to confuse the phrases "go get em boy" and "you got it" coming out with "you got em boy". During a silent moment in the game. To make matters worse this was in my first few weeks at uni and I said it in a thick southern American accent. Safe to say I got a few strange looks of my new flatmates.
When Pompey played AC Milan's star-studded 2008-9 team we gave Ronaldinho and Kaka the biggest 'WHO' you've ever heard. So much so that Ronaldinho called it the best atmosphere in world football.
The issue concerning FFP/PRS has emerged because the Premier League altered the deadline for clubs to submit their accounts (by December 31st) late in the game. This is because the current rules will be replaced in August 2024.
The Premier League CEO, Richard Masters, this week appeared before the DCMS (Culture Media & Sport) committee AND referred to Everton & NFFC as "small clubs", admitting his true focus is the fabled "top 6 clubs". But this slight was not just limited to Everton & NFFC but the 14 other clubs in the Premier League.
What was shocking but not surprising was the number of fans and journalists who defended Richard Masters, The Premier League, and FFP/PRS. They claimed that his words had been taken out of context, which was not the case. His demeanour during the hearing came across as arrogant, and he appeared not to want to be there.
Agree that masters is a dick but none of that let's Forest off the hook for breaking the rules. Having to submit your accounts earlier is annoying for those submitting but they are accounts of the previous year so nothing changes by filing later or earlier
@@samuelloification2749 It seems the PL may of been trying to push NFFC to sell Brennan Johnson to a club he did not want to go to.That is neither impartial nor helpful
@@nichemphill8321 would have been helpful to Forest. They wouldn't have failed FFP. I doubt they tried to force the move as how could they? It's up to the player. They will have just reminded Forest that they needed the money before the deadline and if that meant selling for less than market value so be it
@@samuelloification2749 They did "encourage" the club
@@nichemphill8321 whatever that means
On good clean fun, at villa park following our continued impressive home record we often took the lead early on and has prompted chants of “you’ve seen the villa now f*ck off home” targeted towards the few thousand aways fans that have made the trip. Belting that out 15 minutes into a game always brings a particular smile to my face at the just the pure arrogance of it. I started off as “don’t sing that because they are obviously going to beat us now” fan but I am now converted to a “yea have that, we are so good at football and we’re going to win the lot” fan after scoring a deflected goal to go 1-0 up against a bottom half of the table team who haven’t won in 6 games
FFP is easy to sort out, just use a variant on the sliding scale that Formula 1 uses where the teams at the top more restricted and teams lower down less restricted. With a big jump at 9th onwards because 1-8th get revenue from playing in Europe.
1st-4th = £30m losses allowed. 5th-8th £45m. 9th-12th = £65m. 13th-16th £75m. 17th-20th £90m.
The problem with Jordan Henderson is that he tried so fucking hard to say that he went to Saudi Arabia for everything but the money but that was clearly a bold-face lie. On top of the fact that he did fuck all as a gay rights activist in that country because that would have jeopardized his bag. He hasn't damaged anyone or any cause he's damaged his own reputation for money.
Bold-face lie... excellent Samism
Maybe he was going to donate the money to a library so his kids have something to read in English.
And educate kids in Saudi how to speak, read, and write. How generous!
@@marimatsumoto372 do you know how rich Saudi Arabia is? they don't need donations for anything really.
The most entertaining underrated under appreciated podcast love these two so much 👍
I cant see how FFP helps smaller clubs like villa and newcastle try cement themselves in the top 4 unless there is a rebalancing of the big 6 clubs. Lets remember FFP was brought in to stop clubs going pop, not stopping clubs spending money them or thier owners clearly have. If we are under the illusion that we can build a utopia of equal playing fields where everyone is competitive financially we need to look in the mirror because where on earth is that genuinly the case in any other team sport
Klopp didn't make those comments recently. They were made last year amongst all the fuss that buying someone in January was necessary for Liverpool.
Businesses can takes risks with expenditure. Maybe an expected expenditure, it’s the injury list which is the problem. It’s hard to compete with the top. I agree with profit and sustainability but could it not change to a more outside business approach. Regulation is good, but some companies do boom to the top, for example Prime. It’s just the luck of the draw, we were 5th in 2008 above spurs only club revenue and Ashley stripped our value. It was just bad timing but it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Just think there could be some rules similar to the MLS. But I agree with flav, build an infrastructure, it’s just been a struggle this season.
Flav's question about a Saudi offer is disingenuous. If somebody offered me right now (a normal working man) five times my salary of course I'd take it because it fundamentally changes my existence. But that's not what happened, we're talking about a multimillionaire footballer who is already wildly comfortable and so are his family - he can afford to stand by his morals at no real cost to himself.
But is the difference between our earnings and a footballs the same gap between footballer wages and Saudi pro league wages? I don’t know but the difference might be. There’s money and then there’s MONEY.
@@mirkys130 nah i still think that perspective is slightly off. for me its about life changing, being offered 5x my salary now puts me into a position i wouldnt ever have to worry seriously about money. Henderson is already in that position and several levels above that, increasing it more will do what for his quality of life? get him a private plane? a yacht? i think beyond a certain point it's greed
@@lukeEmmo he's worked to get to that position to get more money, wouldn't you? And even if you take the moral high ground 99% of people would take that opportunity regardless. Greed? yeah sure probably but why do you care lol.
@@Restropect1 I'd like to think if i was in Henderson's position I wouldn't do it but I guess you never really know. I care about this decision that he made because he positioned himself as a role model, as the image of the ideal moral footballer, he was something of a personal hero of mine, and then he sold all of that out for more money that wouldn't change his life all that much. I think that's disappointing because whether anyone likes it or not, footballers are role models that young people look up to.
5x times a normal salary about 150k a year makes you well off, after tax probably closer to half that makes you well off, 3 million a month for years makes your family rich for generations
The problem is the rules are fundementally floored! They keep the rich clubs at the top, it was clearly an overreaction after city came in and spent big. So they decided to pull the ladder up and sod the rest. I would much prefer a squad wage and/or transfer budget cap, but that would require all of world football to join in too. On a more selfish note 27:10 yes thats fair enough and I am all in as long we make sure Man City are punished and relegated to the National League! 28:02 But due to Cities prolific over spending Liverpool were not rewarded for being "Smart, regularly for a long time" and we were prevented from gaining more success!
Here's hoping there's a horror show decision against spurs in their next game so James can sit and tell flav why it was fine whilst flav sits quietly and agrees
Imagine hearing as a Chelsea Fan this conversation about FFP for 32 minutes hearing about the gulf between the top 6 and the rest of the league and then this incredible gulf from the premier league to the championship again on that after just losing to Middlesbrough and having a second leg coming up next week that I think is anyone’s game.
I recon we should allow Newcastle to spend every single £ they want but just put Todd bowley in charge of transfer targets
Imagine as a Chelsea fan, not seeing the advantage you had by being able to build infrastructure, put in place a youth system and revamp the entire squad (multiple times), before spending restrictions were put in place.
You're still reaping the benefits yearly.
Problem a lot of you agree myopic, and don't understand the reason for ffp.
Lots of clubs have gotten into trouble cos the rich owners decided they cba anymore
This could be a watershed moment for football. The likes of PSG, Chelsea, City and Utd inflating the market is not the way.
How can the argument be about safeguarding the top teams when the rules as they were, were just safeguarding the richest owner?
Bar Jack grealish how are City inflating the market, all the players city have signed down the years anyone could buy, I’m Sure Fergie broke more transfer records than any other manager. Maybe Utd paying £80m for Maguire and £100m for Antony is inflating the market or even Liverpool paying £90m for a donkey, I’m sure I remember City refusing to pay the £70m for VVD at the time, so maybe have another think about it.
@@bobofett3966 I think it’s fair to say players like Ake, Akanji, Gvardiol(undetermined), Nunes, Mendy, Laporte we’re not 40m-60m players. Also when these players have been come obsolete they can just discard and move on or in Cancelo’s case just loan out. Teams outside those three have had to think about these types of moves in the past when City can just buy until they get the formula right. No?
The fact Hendo's not been paid a penny yet by the club is objectively hilarious.
I stood up for him a bunch troughout his time at Liverpool but he bantered himself horribly there.
do you really think is a bother to him?
His name is Henderson. He's not your mate.
he was paid but he needs to pay what Saudi paid to Liverpool and agent fee
@@itwoznotme I do think that he's not completely content with not earning a wage for 6 months or so.
@@VillaBoys123 You're right, I hold my friends to a much higher moral standard than I do Hendo or any other footballer.
It doesn't matter what FFP rules you put in place until you deal with the real issue, and that's the fact that it's necessary to overspend to compete long-term in the first place. It was inevitable, for example, that after winning the league, Leicester would be stripped and sold for parts. But why? Because the money in football is so unequally distributed that there was no way Leicester could ever match the financial offers of these other teams, or be able to invest in their team in a way that would convince their players that they could compete at the top long term. But there's never any talk of distributing money more evenly, because the big clubs will never go for it. In fact, we've had about 40 years of movement in the opposite direction, from the refusal to share gate receipts, to the formation of the Premier League, to the expansion of the European Cup, and now FIFA getting in on the act as well. All of that money goes to boost the coffers of the teams who already have a massive financial advantage. And ironically, Everton were one of the main instigators in creating the system that prevents them from being able to compete.
Finally a sane comment about this. The rules as they stand serve to enshrine the position of the clubs with the biggest revenue. The rules actively prevent clubs with lower revenue investing the prerequisite amount to increase their revenue, as they are not allowed to spend as much. City and Chelsea built their revenue streams with an unlimited spend before the rules came into effect and now benefit from the fact that other clubs are prevented from doing exactly what they did to establish themselves. Not that this excuses 'old money' either. They too are protected from ever having serious challengers. United have been woeful for ages but their revenue means they can just drop another billion quid on players to have another stab at getting it right. Everton overspent about 6 years ago now and are still paying the price and then some.
Everton have been badly run and broke the rules. no sane fan is arguing otherwise. However the rules themselves have the side affect of making clubs' need to spend more urgent if they are ever going to compete, as well as giving 'bigger' clubs far more leeway to correct their mistakes.
If the world of football was reset to zero and all clubs had the same money and started on a level playing field you would still have clubs eventually gaining an advantage purely due to success. If the owners of club A make better decisions than the owners of club B club A will eventually have more success which brings with it better sponsorships, Money, Players etc. Club A could build on that success to dominate club B. Now we are 10 years into the future and Club A has won 4 league titles has a bigger stadium, bigger fan base and can sign better players than Club B. Is this fair or should club A not be allowed to build on their success and use it to their advantage?
@@SuperJJParker The issue with this is that that advantage is now so enshrined that it is basically insurmountable, and we have made it actively harder with rules and regulations for teams who weren't able to capitalise early to ever compete. Even if one of the 'successful' clubs fail, repeatedly (see United and Chelsea currently) they have so much leverage to just spend again and again to finally haul themselves back. I don't deny that the winners should see some advantage, but the scale of that advantage coupled with the current rules has effectively locked everyone else out.
@@seanfitz70 I agree. The problem is clubs already have historical success as huge advantages and I don't think there is a fair way to remove it. If you now decide to bring wage caps in that will mean more money goes I to the owners pockets which nobody wants.
@@SuperJJParker But it's not just that, it's the way that they've actively lobbied to increase that share of the pie. Every decade or so, the big clubs threaten to breakaway if they don't get something else their own way. It used to be that the home and away teams shared the gate receipts for every game. Imagine that. You're Luton, you go to Old Trafford, and you get half of the 75,000 ticket sales. Now Man Utd are still going to make more money over the course of the season, but the point is that it wasn't as much of an advantage.
And then the expansion of the European Cup into the Champions League. Qualifying for Europe used to give you a bit of extra revenue and a shot of glory. Now the benefits of regular qualification put you in another stratosphere. It's bad enough in the Premier League where the domestic TV deal dwarfs the CL money, but look at all of the leagues it's made completely uncompetitive. Imagine how much Copenhagen are making every year compared to all of the other Danish clubs. Or Shakhtar in Ukraine. Or any other number of leagues that have basically been destroyed by Champions League money that isn't shared down the pyramid. In Spain, they even had Real Madrid and Barcelona even breaking away from the rest of the league when it came to TV rights until they finally realised that that was awful for the overall competition.
Old ball street vibes - Love it!
As a NUFC fan, I am frustrated by the lack of signings, but fully accept and understand that FFP is necessary. I do however, feel that the issues surrounding inflation need to be discussed further and some changes to need to be made.
I think the bigger issue is not as described, Newcastle fans wanting to spend all their money - that is a very minority and minority voices in this context, shouldn't be listened to.
The main criticism, and not just from Newcastle fans, is that the way FFP is set up heavily punishes teams outside of the top 6.
Using the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd as an example of why that isn't the case isn't a good counter either, because they've put their self in that bad situation through their transfer and wage policies.
@@deanc6664Newcastle voted in favour of bringing in FFP. We (City fans) warned everyone what FFP was when it was first put forward. We told you all that it was closing the door to anyone else doing what we had done but nobody wanted to listen. The red cartel shit themselves when they saw what we were doing and put forward FFP to stop it happening again. Ironically (before outcome of our charges), we were the biggest opponents of FFP and may end up being the biggest beneficiary as it's closed the door behind us.
Good clean fun - A player with a known high pricetag misses a chance, opposing fans then shout "HOW MUCH!?"
Flav is that a Danger Mouse & Black Thought Cheat Codes hoodie? 😍
Got a nice little Samism for you lads, straight from the elephants mouth.
Filling out my CV as I'm looking for a new job in sports media, *cough cough Jimbo*. I say that I can adapt to work environments like 'a fish to water', obviously getting confused with 'a duck to water' and 'like a fish out of water' serves me right for putting a stupid idiom in my CV.
Love the football chat.
Easily the best football podcast! Keep it up lads 👍
Something I would love to see is you guys reacting to the old Ballstreet football matches! Remember a cracker of a game against ‘the creators’. Xx
Great show and great guest
As a Boro fan, if City were to be expelled from the Premier League I wouldn't want the EFL to let City in either at L2 or the Championship. It would need to be more serious and a relegation to the Championship would just put City back by a year. Put them in the 7th/8th tier and it will hurt them more.
Super league would be alternative option. Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Napoli, Juventus would be interesting for International football fan. Competition around Asian countries and USA..
If Man City don’t get charged/relegated, does this incentivise Newcastle owners to do the same?
Fully agree with the Newcastle part of the pod and believe me I’m not complaining because we were told from day one of the this project that this takes time, to be a top club we were told that this was going to take 5-10 years. However I can understand where people are coming from saying that Man City and Chelsea are being protected by the prem. I don’t see it that way I see it as it’s more unfair on other clubs that have owners that have respected the guidelines whilst the biggest clubs in this league have already broken the rules and are still benefitting off of that. It is just blatantly annoying that the premier league is only keen on awarding clubs that bring in money rather than trying to build competition and ultimately make more money as a league altogether. At the end of the day I’m still happy and don’t really care that city and Chelsea were allowed to do what they want because in reality they are not far on the horizon from us.
One thing I feel gets overlooked when talking about this subject is how much state backed clubs spending massively effects fans throughout the leagues. The more money they have to spend to keep up with the likes of Boley spending 1bn and City, the more ticket prices go up etc.
I found it very funny Jim trying to remove barriers for entry on this podcast
Flav telling Newcastle that they should grow organically by building revenue and facilities yet Everton building a new stadium is main reason that we’ve been deemed to have lost too much money. The SAME people will try to show off that same brand new stadium as one of the best in the country during the EUROS. We are building a new stadium to bring in more revenue and are getting punished for that same reason. Laughable
In a legal context, cheating typically refers to dishonest practices or fraudulent activities intended to gain an unfair advantage. This can vary across different legal jurisdictions and may involve actions like deception, manipulation, or violation of rules to achieve an illicit outcome, often in the context of examinations, games, or competitions. Laws related to cheating can vary, so it's important to consider the specific legal framework in question.
Love your Lego watch, Flav.
Can someone please write a script and commission a White Teeth movie? Or Netflix mini-series. I’ve heard Flav reference it on the cock (should elaborate (Fighting Cock)) a couple of times, but I went back and listened to the whole story this week. The story needs to be developed and I need to watch this.
I think what everyone doesn't realise with Hendo is that these Saudi money giants want to promote their league, and are watching what is said with a keen eye.
If he goes into an interview and says anything along the lines of "I can't turn down this money" and gives no other messaging then they aren't going to like that at all. I know it fell through in the end but we need to understand there isn't a perfect world were people are honest about these moves, and it's because of how what someone can say can then affect themselves or situations around them.
We all want to hear it, but it just can't happen unfortunately.
Great pod as always fellas! 👍
The rules do say you can backdate a deal if it was delayed to get a better deal. It's not "you know the rules, deal with it" it's allowed in the rules.
The first thing Ruben Neves said was I'm going for the money. Great footballer. He'll be back at the Wolves in a couple of years. Legend.
As for Forest, we've all had overdrafts and we all know what happens when you buy something and go over the overdraft. I can't say to HSBC, yeah I went well over the limit but 2 months later I was fine so I shouldn't be charged. These clubs were well beyond the *allowed* excess debt cleared. They weren't dipping into the red.
I would like to see FFP enable clubs with smaller revenues to overspend slightly. I think they should be able to exceed FFP by a certain percentage of their revenue compared to the top revenue in the league. For instance, if the largest club in the league bring in 700m a year, but you bring in only 100m a year, you should be able to spend an additional 60m (10% of the gap in revenue). This would facilitate more rapid growth to challenge the top clubs. I understand that this may reduce the stability of clubs so accept that this isn’t a perfect solution.
The problem is you’re in a catch 22 where you need good revenue to build a good team, but need a good team to grow the brand and build a bigger revenue. People love to bring up Brighton, but forget that just a few years ago Leicester were the shining example of how to run a club and where are they now? Just a few bad windows/transfers and that’s it, you’re done. I used to feel that to have any chance of achieving anything, my club would need a huge takeover; now I feel there is nothing that would bring us to the top.
Integrity is largely internal, not external. Do YOU adhere to the values and principles you espouse publicly via your visible actions ? Why ?
A: Doing so allows you to not be a hypocrite. It gains yourself self respect ... with yourself first and foremost ... when you adhere to a set of well thought out values that are important to you. It allows you ignore the vagaries of cultural trends to provide a firm basis for your decision making.
The fact people with integrity can be perceived by others as having integrity is function of others observing consistency and constancy in one's behavior but ... that's all a by product of having integrity with yourself.
I mean the forest one, other clubs can force forest to sell if they know the ffp window no? I dont agree with the forest one
I love Jaffn!
Wow we nearly actually got a full football podcast!
Blurred Muff is a great 00s indie band name
Good clean fun: when the new teenage barman drops a tray of glasses on his first day and the whole pub shouts "WEEEEAAAAHHH!!!"
Good, clean fun: Mimicking being a conductor with the angry opposing fans being your orchestra.
“We’ve all been there” made me CACKLE at the gym 😂😂😂
this pod as class, really agreed with pretty much everything youve said which is pretty rare for me, and im a city fan so, but also i said a bad comment on flav here a feq months ago just because he said something i thought as nonesence, he both speaks well and is funny and your dynamic is very good, so yeah sorry flav, great pod
My club (Spurs) felt the affects of missing out on top 4 money at the birth of the premier league haunted them for many years but now are perfectly placed to grow with FFP biting and I believe we will witness the club fly like a phoenix
Love James and his comments. Flav seems to dumb down the topics of conversation
A lot of football on the pod this week lads, everything alright at home?
COYS
Samuel
The main gripe of NUFC fans and fans of the “other 14” is that you are permitted to make losses of up to £105m over a rolling 3 seasons but that was the case in 2014 too. Football inflation hasn’t affected the permitted losses within FFP, why not?!!
Only being allowed to make a loss of £105m is squeezing the “other 14” much more than the “big 6” which is essentially closing the shop and serving the traditional “big 6” much better. Therefore the current rules are not fit for purpose because it’s pretty much impossible to make a sustained entry into the echelons of the UCL/EL or even just flip flop between the two competitions like Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal have for the last 10 years
One thing I will say, I’m still frustrated with how £300m spent that wasn’t Everton’s fault is just dismissed by many. £250m that we were forced to spend due to the sponsor who was meant to pay that £250m being Russian. Due to the war in Ukraine, he was no longer able to pay that. Obviously unforeseen, not intentional spending and not the club’s fault. Then an extra £50m for what we paid for Sigurdson and his contract we had to terminate early and not gain anything back from either selling him or not gaining due to him being a decent player, because of the allegations made towards him. Obviously not the club’s fault if a player commits alleged crimes etc. Everton wouldn’t have overspent if these things didn’t happen and there wouldn’t have been a problem without these things happening. I find it very unfair for that £300m to count in everyone saying “ooh you broke the rules” etc when it should have been written off. The Premier League also declared that Everton gained no sporting advantage from the spending either which everyone seems to have forgotten. Obviously the club is still horribly run and I’m not saying that we are absolutely blameless, the owner Moshiri is an awful owner, all I’m saying is if that £300m would have rightly been written off then none of this would have happened.
Dismissed? Unless you know better than the club ,EPL and the lawyers involved
Respect your feelings as a fan, but FFP is worked off a club's accounts. Money in, money out. Should\could\might aren't in a balance sheet.. As to no sporting advantage, consensus is this was to prevent Everton getting sued. Why we say this, any money spent by a football club is to gain sporting advantage. Bigger stadium= more money= better quality players. That's an advantage over smaller club stadia. On the pitch advantage, I'd agree. But no sporting advantage? Why build the stadium then if not to get sporting advantage?
I'm an evertonian, at the end of the day our board have fucked up and therefore however much it sucks for us fans we have to account for it. All I want is consistency, if city walk free (the leaked emails alone prove they cheated) because their ability to drag their case out for almost a decade. Then surely we have to ask, are the rules the same for the big 6 clubs as they are for the rest?
1:01:21 "The way it was put in his mouth, it's not (Arteta)'s fault..." 😂😂😂😂
Good Clean Fun: Non-League edition.
Harassing the officials is usually done by just chants or gestures but at non league some grounds allow free movement of fans along the touch line. My dad, a Vicar, on multiple occasions has followed a linesmen up and down the touch line questioning his decisions and shouting abuse. Infront of 2,000 people I watched my dad dressed in his Vicar outfit get escorted by stewards out of the ground. Not so clean but good fun.
His other personal favourite chants are if the goalie is in any brightly coloured kit. “we can see you in the dark” or if they are not in peak athletic condition “have you ever seen a salad, ever seen a salad, ever seen a salad have you fuck” / “who ate all the pies, who ate all the pies, you fat bastard, you fat bastard, you ate all the pies”
Klopp's comments weren't made the other day. They were made 2 years ago, and have been doing the rounds again on socials recently.
We never got our episode with Will Brazier. Can we please make that happen...
Newcastle had a massive fight to sell the club and be taken over. No top 6 club wanted it - obviously.
NUFC finish 4th. First time someone not in top 6 finishes in UCL place in decades (Leicester miracle aside)
FFP shows teeth
Villa will disrupt it this season, too. Which is a great thing as the fact it was getting shared about between 6 clubs was sickening.
I question the timing of "teeth," but then again, if Newcastle didn't have the mental injuries we have, I probably wouldn't care as much 😂
There seems to be roughly 90% more football chat than a normal JAFFN, explanation please
Hi Jim, how will Henderson's departure effect the rest of the Al-Ettifaq season?
I'm aware that this is a super long comment and I don't expect you to read it or care. I also don't want to give the impression that I'm judging either of you before criticising what you said in this episode; I'm aware this podcast is light-hearted and off-the-cuff, and that's part of the reason I really enjoy watching. I just felt I should get this off my chest.
Obviously you're entitled to your views, but the first 15 minutes of this one was very strange for me to listen to.
RE: The Henderson stuff, I get what you are both saying about the money being the deciding factor and I'm sure we'd all find it very difficult to turn down, but Flav saying that we shouldn't hold footballers to moral standards in the same way as politicians is very misguided imo. Everyone should expect to be held to moral standards in the eyes of others (and indeed by themselves, frankly), including people like myself with no platform or visibility. Henderson, a man that already has huge wealth, privilege, and visibility, on top of his basic responsibilities just as a human being in our society, then went out of his way to promote himself (his brand) as being a spokesperson for LGBTQ+ rights and/or representation,. Therefore, he's the one who has ultimately lent more weight to the criticism levied against him. You mentioned the interview Henderson did in the Athletic making it a worse situation than it otherwise would've been, and I agree with you, but part of that interview that wasn't mentioned here (but should be in this discussion) was his downplaying of human rights abuses in the Middle East (in Qatar and Saudi Arabia) where he undermined the reporting of human rights organisations like Amnesty International, and that is just plainly inexcusable. It seems pretty straightforward to me that his words and actions have warranted plenty of criticism.
RE: The comedy discussion, it was also a bit odd to listen to. Yes, Dapper Laughs was interviewed on Newsnight and yes, that interview was prompted by one tweet/joke going viral. However, the reason for that media storm was that the one joke prompted people who had never heard of him to look at his general act, which was oriented around men, women, and dating and often took the form of giving men 'advice' on how to date women. These advice videos included a lot of misogynistic insults of women in general and jokes about date rape, which, when presented in the way that he was presenting them, was and is extremely dangerous. It is understandable that he'd be held to account on that issue at the time considering he'd just been given a show (again, oriented around giving dating advice to men seeking women) on mainstream television, which is subject to tight regulations that content on the internet doesn't have to abide by. Also, Frankie Boyle *also* had a Newsnight section devoted to him and he was subsequently removed from Mock the Week. Since that time, he has chosen to rebrand himself and move away from a lot of his most offensive topics for humour, so he is a bad example of someone who 'got away with it by not apologising'. Similarly, with Ricky Gervais, I don't really know what James was talking about with Gervais' jokes being bullet-proof in terms of who the butt of the joke is; Ricky's recent sets have included jokes targeted at asylum seekers and transgender people (I don't really see how targeting those people is bulletproof, besides him being unlikely to be criticised by a media that also targets those groups), but happy to give James the benefit of the doubt on that one because he didn't really explain what he meant as he was just using it as an analogy to apply to Henderson.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts.
Never heard of Dapper Laughs so I looked him up. I haven't missed anything.
51:07 In MLS when a player goes down injured, oppositions fans sing "dig a hole and f____ bury 'em"
Everton sold 160 million pounds worth of players only spent 55 then got punished for the stadium interest rates which the league told them prior to the build wouldn't go against the accounts ...joke
Always been a fan of “IS THIS A LIBRARY?”
Not so much "a shame", but what ever happened to white dog poo? Used to see it loads as a kid, haven't seen any in years!
Interestingly LIV golf players were saying "we're going to grow the game" which everyone crapped on.
Then some realised and came out and just said "yeah, it's for the generational wealth type money" and people understood that more.
Also interestingly the anti LIV golf was because people claimed it was "Sports washing" and that Saudi money was blood money. The reality was that vested interests were pushing this to defend the status quo of the PGA.
And we just saw Rory Macilroy played in the Saudi invitational... and PIF invests in in an enormous amount of brands everyone uses and no one cares about.
One of the biggest things that is wrong with FFP for me is the fact they incentivise selling home grown talent as they make more profit. As football fans we want local lads coming through and playing for our teams for years to come. We had this growing up but now because of FFP this will become very rare. This part of FFP needs changing.