@@Star1412s maybe it a time-moves-differently-here thing. I also thought they found her unconscious in a field after the storm that carried her from Oz.
I saw a movie where this was done well. It's a Russian/Japanese anime about some paranormal happenings during the Battle of Moscow in 1942 called Last Squad. I normally hate the "it was all a dream" trope, but in Last Squad the idea that the whole movie might be the product of a damaged imagination is introduced very early and done well. I'm sure many people would hate how it was done, but I kind of liked it.
About the "the end is the start" I read a book that started with a funeral scene, and then you go the whole book wondering who died, and when it comes full circle it's just SO GOOD
I’m a little bit late but I read a book with a similar deal going on, and it was SO GOOOOD. It revolved around a bunch of different stories from a bunch of different characters, and it started with one of them falling to their death, but it doesn’t say who it is. Then the stories converge at the end so you see exactly what events led up to it and UGH it was a really good book lmao I don’t remember the name of the book exactly but the premise was something about a skyscraper in the future with 1000 floors?
Specifically about the "nineteen years later" ending, I think its whole purpose was to shut out sequels and other options to continue the story. But I guess we all know the curse that followed...
Totally agreed. This is usually done by authors who want to have complete control over their stories, characters and fictional universes. But as it's been proved recently, more money may change the minds of the most conservative and jealous authors.
I've never seen a "then 20 years later" epilogue that included anything except people being married, pregnant and having kids. No matter who the characters are, and what strange and unique dreams they had for their future, this is the only possible epilogue.
Assassination classroom handled this frustratingly well. To the point where it seemed the mangaka purposefully wanted to leave you unfulfilled with some characters
Oh my god, right??? A woman can have dreams of some amazing adventure or achievement, but then “life has unexpected miracles,” she gets pregnant and discovers all she wanted the whole time was a child 🙄
Ah, this comes from manga, but I have one your comment brought to mind. *_Spoilers_* for anyone interested in the *_Bleach_* manga or final season that's coming up. Besides the fact that Ichigo and Rukia didn't end up together (that was my Bleach OTP and seemed to be hinted at in all kinds of official materials; my Black Sun White Moon homies know what I'm talking about), I was upset because no one actually ended up achieving the life they wanted. Ichigo seemed like he was getting built up to live in Soul Society full-time and become a Captain of the Court Guard/Gotei and follow in his father's footsteps in that way. Instead, he took over his father's clinic. And later on, I had others point out to me how no one else did anything that aligned with their dreams as teenagers either. Orihime (who I disliked, but that's separate from this), was a girl who said she wanted to do so many things that she wished she had multiple lives so she could do them all. She didn't want a domestic life at all, and yet she ended up Ichigo's housewife. Ishida, who said he never wanted to be a doctor or take over his father's hospital did exactly that. He turned into an absolute workaholic doctor just like his father. And Chad, who made a promise to his grandfather that he would never use his strength for his own gain became a professional boxer. What on Earth happened there? In general, Bleach's writing just went downhill, starting from after the Soul Society arc (the Soul Society arc was a masterpiece on its own though), but it was really hitting rock-bottom after the Fullbring arc. It caused the cancellation of the anime, and it's speculated to have also caused the early ending of the manga. But was Tite Kubo's writing so bad he really forgot the desires of characters he had been writing for 15 years? Or was this commentary about teenagers growing up to be a lot more like their parents than they ever wanted to be? It doesn't feel that way. It's no wonder it's common speculation that Kubo intentionally flipped the switch on all of these characters after having his manga cancelled just to piss off readers. To anyone who read this far, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I'm literally so sensitive I'm not allowed to watch nature docos because I cry when animals die but when it comes to stories I demand pain and suffering.
I dated a girl that I had to distract while I was driving so she wouldn’t notice a dead animal on the side of the road. That said I’m still mad when authors kill characters. I get attached to my homies lol.
@@dhenderson319 oh definitely. I have read almost all of the books on my shelf at least three times. In the last two years I've read harry potter sooooooooooo many times
I dont understand authors who don't want us to guess a twist ending. as a reader, I love the satisfying feeling when I scream "I KNEW IT!!", it makes me feel rewarded for paying attention to the story.
The "(X) character was a figment of their imagination" it's either done well, blows your mind, and makes sense. Or it creates massive plot holes and continuity errors.
I agree- when it was planned from the beginning it works, like The Sixth Sense, or imagined relationships with people (2019 Joker), it can be so awesome!
Soft disagree I'm three volumes into a story where the MC didn't follow the "heros jouney" and went to start a farm. I don't think anything real sad has happened. I think it will get a 4th read through.
For me the most important thing is that the ending fits the tone und genre of the book. The book was full of grit and traumatic experiences, don't write an artificial clean ending. The book had a mystery, solve the mystery in a believable way. You wrote a feel good romance novel, make sure your reader feels all gooey inside at the end. Be honest about what book you are writing and than keep doing that all the way to the end. Also, no cliffhangers! I hate them in any genre.
I don't get why people think inspiring negative emotions from art - like sadness and anger - is seen as better than inspiring joy and hope. We give so much critical praise to books and films that are miserable and far less prestige to works that make us happy, curious and laugh.
Kind of agree. I think both are good if they're written well, and both are annoying if they rely too much on cheap tricks and coincidences. Don't write a happy ending just to please the fans. Don't write an unhappy one just to break their hearts. Write an ending that feels like it pays off and makes the story grow, whether it's happy, funny, tragic, bittersweet, twisted or surprising.
It depends on the rest of the book for me. If the book is about the characters going through something dark or dangerous, it doesn’t make sense for everything to suddenly be sunny and joyful at the end. If the story is about characters striving for a goal or finding their purpose or love, I love happy endings.
I think a mixture of the two can work pretty well. For instance, some of the best books I've read are ones where the character goes through hardships that basically leave me sobbing my eyes out, but perseveres and eventually reaches a happy ending. It can work well if done correctly.
Harry Potter Spoiler ahead I guess so yeah... I always kinda wanted Harry Potter to die in the end. To go into the woods and sacrifice himself for all of the people he loved, like his mother did for him. And then there was a magical covering over everyone because of his sacrifice that anytime Voldemort tried to kill it wouldn't touch them. And then you'd have Neville fulfill the other side of the prophecy. I love Harry Potter and like the ending but I would have loved that ending I think.
I don't know because... Yes it would be really interesting, but Harry is my favourite character and i don't want him to die. Also i don't think that the fact that he came back made his sacrifice less meaningful, he still really believed he was going to die and i cry everytime i read the chapter when he goes to the forest to die even though i know he won't die but it's still so emotional... Also i think it'd be weird that the rest of the story wouldn't be told from Harry's POV after 7 books that we only saw it from Harry's eyes. I really hate the 19 years later chapter though lol.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why." I prefer an upbeat ending, more often than not. There's no single approach that fits all narratives, of course, and the tone of the story is a large factor in determining how crushed the tale needs to leave you at the end in order to feel satisfying. A clean finish to ASoIaF/Game of Thrones would feel absurd, for example, and the HP series probably shouldn't end with Voldemort standing over the maimed corpses of the three kids. For me, personally, it comes down to what the author is trying to say with their choices, and when killing beloved fantasy characters we've followed for years of our lives that message should be more worthwhile than "things don't always work out in real life." Just my two cents.
Sorry to bring Marvel into this, but Infinity War is a great example of what you're talking about. It does not have a happy ending, but rather an inevitable one. If the Avengers had been united, then they could have had a chance, but they weren't (because of Civil War) and it cost them dearly.
One of my favorite endings ever: The main character dies shockingly and their best friend is left to lead the story in THEIR way while everything is wrapped up. It was epic.
Spoiler Hero of Ages by Brando Sando! Vin and Elend dying was perfect and then having Sazed be the Hero of Ages when you thought everything pointed to Vin was awesome. Whats even more awesome is that everything is foreshadowed in the first book.
Sherlock Holmes is super guilty of never giving the reader a chance. Every damn time he pulls some nonsense out of his hat that the reader had absolutely no chance of knowing. The type of cigar ash, the composition of dirt on a shoe, some detail he got from the damn 1895 register of European nobility (on a fictional noble, of course) and the reader wasn't informed of it until Holmes explains to Watson how he did it. You're not really writing a super smart savant detective, you are just withholding critical information from the reader to make sure they couldn't even guess in the right ballpark!
I kinda disagree because as some into forensics I promise it makes sense and it’s more of a pay off moment. The reader is supposed to be Watson, not Sherlock, so if you do figure it with Sherlock it’s amazing, if not, that’s fine you aren’t supposed to. Of course I’m thinking of the books, Sherlock by bbc does suffer from what you said quite a bit, even changing just to twist or spite the books.
Then we have authors who kill off major characters but you never connected with them in the first place and even though you're "supposed" to feel sad when the MC/love interest/ best friend/mentor/ sibling dies your only reaction is that you're grateful that you don't have to read about that bland, uninteresting and/or annoying person anymore.
Love Story was once the best selling book. The fad for years was called, "Kiss me, then carry me." There were thousands of imitations. Just having a romance novel end with two live characters was an impossible dream. It was not the style.
Unpopular opinion: I hate Romeo and Juliet. Ever since I was a kid, I thought they were stupid to kill themselves, because they couldn't be together. THEY WERE TEENS! They didn't know what love really was
So people don't like happy endings but also don't like the dreary finale of mockingjay. Interesting. This is specifically the reason I love the hunger games and don't understand why people hate the last book so much.
The main problem i have with it is that it does not fit the themes of the story for me the story was about hope/ making the world a better place and so on and then it ended on such a depressing note while i personnaly generally prefer bittersweet ending, i dislike endings the most which contradict the themes of the story
I think the main reason people dislike the ending to Mockingjay is because so many people read it when they were young and weren’t expecting a downer ending. I was spoiled for it going in, and so I really enjoyed the ending. I think if people reread Mockingjay, they’d appreciate the ending a lot more.
In my case, if I remeber correctly (I read it a long time ago) -i didn't like it because everything felt forced and just for shock value. I like several points of that book, but, for example, I didn't care for most deads because of how they happened, and that was so weird considering how attatched I was to the characters. Those books for me were a story of a revolution, people fighting to be free, the author was very good transmiting that in the arenas but the third book feels just forced. And to top it, at the very end we don''t get how the world changed, just katniss depresingly living with peeta. I didn't like it, not because it was sad, but because it made me feel absolutely nothing (Hope I made my point clear, I'm pretty bad explaining my thoughts ^^')
I guess it just depends how you look at it. For some people, it was "depressing" and a "downer," but I was actually deeply touched and inspired by it, personally. I loved how it ended with the message that no matter how hurt you are, how much life can beat you down, you can pick up the pieces and rebuild. ♥ It'll never be the same as it was, and the wounds you suffered will always be there, but that doesn't mean that the life you build afterward can't be every bit as good. For people who live with trauma, it's an empowering message to know that erasing/forgetting/getting over the trauma is not the way to reach a happy ending. Accepting it, finding ways to live with it, and having the strength to find happiness DESPITE it, is what matters. The ending of Mockingjay might be bittersweet, but so is life. For me, that fit the themes of the first two books beautifully.
“Don’t be a afraid to kill your characters” Like I agree but to an extent. Like for example, and I’m not talking about the show, but Game of Thrones was great at this. The death of characters furthered the plot and created tense situations between characters. But don’t and I mean don’t kill characters just for the sake of killing them off and to add shock value for your audience. The show Game Of Thrones is very guilty of this especially in later seasons once they diverted from the books. They killed characters that they didn’t need to and their deaths didn’t further the plot in any way at all, hell I forget they even died or existed because it was that insignificant. If you are writing and want to kill a character off that’s great, you do that, but think about it in the context of the story. Will it push the plot more? Will it add to a character? Will your readers actually care about it and not forget it?
I think it is interesting that some authors go for that sort of twist ending (a dream the whole time, x character who you didn't think would die, dies!), but the interesting part of a twist is the fallout and exploration of it, not just the twist itself. If it is gonna be a dream, then it would be way more interesting for that to happen halfway through the story. If you're gonna kill a major character, doing it with 20 pages left leaves no space to appropriately explore that.
Yes! *spoiler alert* A great example of this is Gone Girl. We get the story from Amy's perspective at first and I so fell for her narrative that even when I found out everything was crafted I still had a hard time adjusting my perspective on the story and realizing certain things were lies. Also, it served the story so well: it showed us just how paranoid and clever Amy can be and helped us understand the public and the detectives that fall for her story, because we know how convincing she sounds.
I wrote a story where the main character dies in the end and it’s kind of a twist but you can also see it coming. I kind of want it to be something where it all clicks and you look back and go “this was the only way” I don’t think it’s really a twist but it’s still cool I guess. I made sure that being dead was a happy ending for the main character though because she kind of lost purpose when the love interest was murdered so death was her happy ending.
I hate (I think this is probably specific to thrillers/mystery) when people spend the entire book keeping a "deep dark secret" that ends up being an *accident* that they could have just reported at the time instead of making it a huge overbearing mysterious thing. It makes me so mad 😂🙈.
I love the ending of the Lord of the Rings. Every time I read it I feel so deeply sad and melancholy and satisfied. Nothing will ever be the same again.
"Don't be afraid to kill your characters period!" I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that. Of course in many situations (i.e. in an all-out war) it is appropriate, but it's certainly not necessary in every book. And I HATE when a character dies for (what seems like) pure shock value. I watched a movie awhile back that killed off its CHILD PROTAGONIST after the main conflict was seemingly resolved, and I still haven't gotten over it, lol. Although I realize that the line between a "shock death" and a "death with meaning" is a pretty fine and subjective one. Another thing: it often seems like authors think that a beloved character's death is the ONLY way to evoke strong emotion from the audience - look at any "Top Ten Saddest Book/Movie Endings" list and it's just tragic death after tragic death. Personally I think that other events - like a failed romance or friendship, or a character permanently leaving a comfortable chapter of their life for an unknown or scary one - can be just as effective, and I wish authors explored them more.
Agreed! I saw a thing once where after the main conflict was resolved a side character suddenly killed the main character who was their close friend. It made zero sense and left me so angry. It felt like the only reason this was done was to avoid a happy ending.
I agree. Sometimes it works well (Rogue One does this well imo) but sometimes it doesn’t (not to spoil, but the death in the sewer from Mockingjay since their death was unnecessary and never discussed)
This is a good point. I love a well-played death, but it needs to fit the story. I’m reading this as I edit the end of my PitchWars manuscript and trying to see if I can avoid some of these bad endings....
I love a good mic drop ending, when a character says one line that is just right and then walks off. It can be just something to make you smile, an I told you so or a hint at some deeper meaning and many other things...as long as it is the right line from the right character.
I agree. I think that the last page and especially the last sentence is the most important part, that final moment in this world that you have spent so much time in is priceless and it needs to give the reader a semblance of closer, maybe it doesn’t tell us that they all lived happily ever after but it still needs to show that somehow, after all they have been through, things will work themselves out. It’s also really fun to have a parallel between the first and last sentence of the book or series, it just feels like it came full circle.
Unpopular opinion: I love the 19 year epilogue of Harry Potter.. I don't know. I love having that little flashforward to what happens to Harry. After having lost so many people, after never having had a family, after all the crap he had to go through I loved being able to see him forming a family of his own, being happy besides everything that has happened to him and just I loved being able to see that little bit of his future. I don't mind epilogues... And again putting Harry Potter as example; their happy ending came at a huge costs of lives and I don't think the epilogue changed that
I'm not mad at the fact that it's 19 years later or that he formed a family but I was disappointed that everyone ended up with their teenage crushes. Like noone grew apart and found someone new or didn't want to have kids or realised that they were gay or fell in love with a muggle?
I actually liked the epilogue too until the last line “all was well.” That killed it for me. It was waaaaaaaay too obvious and basic and honestly just bad writing. The original last line that she took out honestly gives me chills and is so much better because it casts Harry into the realm of myth (“Ginny was the only one who could still see his scar.”)
I think the epilogue was important - or at least useful - because it allowed Harry to explicitly show he had forgiven Snape and come to understand him. It also served as an excuse to provide us with one more subtle line of philosophy - that you can be brave no matter what you are or seem - supporting the overall theme of the series (It's your choices that matter!). There was some narm in the epilogue, I admit, but I still wouldn't have cut it.
In one book I read it has a squeaky-clean perfect ending where all the bad things throughout the entire series were reversed and everything was good and they got their fairytale ending. But there was a twist, the ending for all the characters was terrible. Because when they got the perfect ending no-one was the same. One character went from a battle-hardened queen with PTSD to a soft-spoken gentle character. Another one went from a reporter who knew what it was like to grow up in hardship to a prince who had never worked a day in his life. And the character who made the wish to change everything to be perfect was transformed into a fairy from a spunky run-away princess with an adorable relationship. Luckily they manage to fix with some help from a printing press and magic. The characters got their perfect fairytale ending and hated it.
Spoiler for JoJo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . This reminds me of JoJo part 6, where the villain Pucci resets the universe and all of humanity is supposed to be happy I guess, but while the main characters now live a better life, they lost who they once were and that really hit me hard. dunno if any jojofans watch this channel but just wanted to leave this here
For me an ending has to fit to the story that was told in terms of themes, character arcs,plot ... While happy endings can often feel foced and be unsatisfying, i equally dislike it when an author intentionally makes a bad/bittersweet ending when it does not fit the story at all
The ending where you notice that everything, even the smallest details, were planned from the start, is what was done in Harry Potter. It's one of the reasons why I love the series so much. Especially during book 7, i spent half of my time thinking "Holy shit, thing x or character y from the first book(s) actually had a greater purpose".
It's not that hard to do. The hooks she left that she didn't follow up on are hooks you don't notice, but there might be a few of them lying around as well. It's like a 'forced choice' magic trick, where the outcome is a given regardless of what you say. You notice the part you get shown, you don't notice the other options that got left unrevealed.
@@Hadrian1616 I didn't cry when I read it but like an hour after I finished the book and I looked back onto it I was crying like a baby. And God did that feel good.
@@alexandra1695 mmmmm....totally. I was huddled under warm blankets weeping and sucking my thumb for days. At the end of that coma, I sighed, "I really needed that."
The whole video had me thinking about the difference between book and movie end on Twilight. They spend most of the book preparing for a battle that doesn't happen and it's just like wtf why did i read that. Then I went to watch the movie and... (spoiler, I guess?) they have a battle that actually never happened lol I WAS LAUGHING SO HARD it took me some time to leave the theater lol Just to think of it I laugh. It was so freaking funny. And the battle was GOOD damn they were not afraid to kill characters and in a violent way too! And it was never real. Really Twilight is so trash but the battle in the movie was a genious move.
The screenwriters obviously knew more about good storytelling than the book's author. The book sucked really, really _badly,_ but I still went with my wife to watch the damn movie ... and the screenwriters saved it by adding that battle.
I don't know if this makes sense, but I find that "character driven" plot twists work the best. When one of the characters lures both the reader and the main character into a false sense of security, makes you think the story will go one way, and then the band-aid is ripped and it's revealed that character isn't who you think they are at all. As opposed to something happening TO the characters through the plot as the twist.
@@ducklingugly6850 Sure, but bear in mind these are technically spoilers. I'm only going to mention the series they happen in and not the exact books: A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J Maas Folk of the Air Series by Holly Black The Remnant Chronicles by Mary E Pearson has this in there Furyborn by Claire Legrand Royal Bastards by Andrew Shvarts Cracks by Sheila Kohler - this one....is so creepy. I won't spoil, but don't trust the people telling the story. Claire of the Sea Light by Edwidge Danticat - this isn't your typical novel. It starts off with a little girl going missing and with every chapter we rewind in time a bit to see what a different character was doing and then we keep going back in time to see how things that happened in the past led up to this point and the reveals of what some characters have done is really cool. So if you like unique narrative structure, this one is cool. A Separate Peace by John Knowles
@@Ali-zn6sg interesting. I was asking because I had a sortof epiphany about what I want one of the themes of my story to be. A positive change arc juxtaposed with another characters corruption arc, ending with the corrupted character being an example of what could've happened to the other character had they not experienced a positive change based around philosophical differences as well as similarities. I dont want to go into specifics of what philosophy exactly cuz thats a whole essay on its own
As for endings where you see a different perspective at the end, I know both Six of Crows and its sequel end with a chapter from the villain's perspective, which are just absolutely delicious to read.
The fun thing about the 'everyone couples up at the end' plot is that it feels like the characters break the fourth wall. They start relationships just because they are aware of being at the end of their book.
Honestly the only time the “19 years later” worked for me was the ending of Clockwork Princess by Cassandra Claire spoilers Seeing everyone grow up as Tessa stayed the same age and seeing people she loved die from old age makes me cry every time because we know as readers she still alive and living even though everyone she loved (except for Jem) has died. It really hits the curse immortality on its head and is such a tear jerker. You don’t have to read this part of the book but it fits so perfectly with the story.
I hear people always complaining about how fantasy (and sometimes even sci-fi) always has a big epic battle at the end or the main character fighting the villian. They say "Why can't it end different or have the fight in the middle of the book or something". But then if there wasn't a big fight at the end and the villian was defeated in some other way, people would be disappointed and think it was extremely anti-climactic. So there are people who do like the big fight ending, which happens to be the majority. And then there are people who don't and can't get there way even if the ending was done with a battle or fight or face off.
To some extent, you are saying that epic fantasy is very samey. And you are right. It’s hard to be epic without that formula. The solution is to not write epic fantasy. I really like character focused fantasy where not much happens but the dialogue is really interesting. Unfortunately, there are very few authors that do that and I think that is partly because most readers demand epic fantasy.
I mean... the root of all our big epic fantasy, Lord of the Rings, has the final battle literally in the middle of the final book. And the battle is not between hero and villain (neither of them is there to battle anything). They shortened everything after the climax for the movies, but these things are still in there to some extent. And you know how endlessly people complained about the "fifty endings" of Return of the King, and how many people hate Frodo as a protagonist because he's just "a damsel in distress who whines all the time" and not a cool fighter who slays villains left and right. (And to be perfectly clear, I love the way it's done in LOTR and don't agree with those people at all, but apparently they exist).
@@baguettegott3409 I also love lord of the rings, but it got hate because of the way it ended which is my point exactly. All people want is a formulaic fighting the big bad in the final few chapters and a 30-40-60 page recap. And then when it isn't formulaic like that, people are calling it anti climactic. So, what I'm trying to say is; it's physically impossible to make everyone happy with an ending or a book in general.
@@matthewc5747 That's very true. Lord of the Rings is obviously loved by a lot of people, so you can do the non-formulaic ending and still be successful, but more *despite* the ending than *because* of it. And as you said, there's no point in trying to make everyone happy because that is just not going to happen.
I don’t actually care if the ending is clean. Of course it depends on the book, and I also like the trauma thing. But I really think both need to exist. Sometimes I just want to be happy at the end of a book, even if it actually makes no sense.
killing the characters you get attached to is the worst thing to do as a writer. it hurts so much to have a character you love so much get killed off. and then you add onto that knowing you’re the one killing them.
A graduation celebration of the double class (or whatever you want to call the combined 6th and 7th year classes where the people were allowed to come back and have proper schooling the next year) would have been so much better. Some shipping foder, what are you doing next conversations, and no forced "hey kid, I named you after the guy who was an ass to me for 6 years, but I forgive him, because he wanted to be with my mom, which *cough cough* is why the audience should love him."
If you like bittersweet endings, Harry Bosch mysteries. For everything that guy does, he pays with pain and you feel like he’ll never get ahead, even when he wins. Breaks my heart.
I actually like clean endings if they feel earned. If it doesn't rely on coïncidences or other cheap tricks solving everything or characters acting completely out of character, I am totally up for a hopeful, feel-good, neatly wrapped up ending. This isn't the only type of ending I like though. I like watching the protagonist slowly develop into a villain (or getting overtaken by their character flaw) and then watching their downfall. I like bittersweet ones too. The bad endings I don't like are tragic or harsh endings that rely on coïncidences and shock value and misunderstandings that could've been solved with one conversation. Or depressing stories with no hope, where the main character starts out sad or bored or lonely and at the end of the story is still sad or bored or lonely without having changed.
Dude, I just read a story that tied the beginning and the ending so well. It was literally just a phrase and I didn’t notice at first. It was a romance story where the MC got his heart broken at the start and said, “If the flowers bloomed, would you remember me?”. (Flowers was a special thing for the main couple) Then, at the end, the MC died and his lover, who had over heard this phrase at the start, ended the story with, “Even if the flowers never bloomed again, I could never forget you.” I didn’t quite remember the phrase at first, but then a flash back to when the MC was broken hearted reminded me of the phrase and I was in tears.
Brandon Sanderson has killed off every favourite character I have ever had in the books I've read so far. EVERY SINGLE TIME. And I love and hate him for it.
I'm the opposite lol. I loved mistborn, until he killed off my favorite character. I was pissed, waited several years to read another of his books. I wonder how many times Stormight archive is going to break my heart =(
I think he puts more effort into characters that will die to generate emotional impact. In a way, it’s a flaw in his writing. He may not even realize he’s doing it. One consequence of being an author who plans everything meticulously is that it’s hard to get the emotional tone right because you know where it’s going. Contrast it to authors who just write with a bare outline, where they are focused on each moment.
Slugging through Well of Ascension. Not the same without Book 1 character. 250 pages in and I’m just now getting interested in the story. I know it’s all setting up for something but I feel like the Zane character was just added to get some Mistborn showdown wish fulfillment. Can’t say for sure until I finish it.
This reminds me of one trilogy I read on Wattpad. In the last paragraph the titles off all three books were included. In that moment I realized how amazing that story actually is. All the major plot lines came to an end but you weren't sure how exactly the story could continue
@@BrainWitchSiv As someone who is not one of those people...and likes bittersweet/earned endings. People by and large fail at endings. Or put another way [happy ending that aren't written well often] Just having a happy ending does not make it a good ending. Further, as much as people want escapism, I think life is hard for a lot of people, which people want to see? Some...anyway? It feels largely, a nuanced thing ,then...just saying people want to watch the world burn - wanting something that persists and lingers inside. As a writer the reason I am writer, one of them, anyway, is because of poor endings. For instance how many people practice writing endings? Let alone want to see the ending to their story that they wrote for years and years? People who arent even writers...have a hard time letting go. Aka, the sunken cost fallacy. Perhaps if folks i.e writers wrote better happy endings people who may otherwise dislike [read me and others] could like it?
I think what everyone wants is an EARNED ending. Having a complete cast after a great war doesnt feel earned so i guess that is why people wants some to die.
Nah, I rather have happy endings after all the drama on a story. Real world is shitty enough as it is, it just gets stupidly depressing and edgy, it almost seems as if a story is not okay or realistic if the author doesn't kill someone important at the end, even if it doesn't make sense. I'm so tired of this trend...
I agree that if it doesn't make sense it shouldn't be done. Never do something just to do it. But I understand that endings that include sacrifice aren't for everyone
I've been struggling to find books to read that aren't depressing, I'm writing light hearted slightly comedic love stories through different eras from the late Stuarts to current day. All the same family, each book focusing on the children of the leads of the previous book. There's dark moments, but overall it's happy, the characters all get their happy ending.
@@RegencyLady-ho2ik Try reading "The Infinites", by John Banville. I felt it was a little strange at the beginning, but it's funny and it isn't a ending with consequences. You could also try "Everything Matters" by Ron Currie Jr., it has some drama, but it's a very touching story and the end is quite satisfactory.
I like bitter Sweet endings. One that make sense but isn't 'Everyone is Happy ever after. ' Put it's also isn't 'everyone one dies and the world is dull. '
You should turn these into a podcast or something! Your tips help me with my writing, thanks for doing such a great job and best of luck with the adoption process (heard you mention it in another video)...
I also loved the ending of each of the Warrior Cat books. Every ending was a cliffhanger which made me want to read the next book. I never actually got past the first series though lol
Well, for me of the the best endings that I've read was the ending of Mockingjay. It was wrenching and heartbreaking, but it showed the consequences of the war and everything bad that happened, it had some important deaths throughtout and most of all showed how much Katniss was destroyed and broken. I think it's a great example of a bittersweet ending, where the epilogue worked so well, showing thay even though they "won" and katniss was able to move on with her life along side with Peeta, they would be forever damaged. That ending killed me and I love it so much
I think Life is Strange managed to pull off the "reversing time back when everything was fine" trope pretty well. (I know it's not a book) I think it can be pulled off as long as there is a key difference or a sacrifice the protagonist has to make. Idk it's just my opinion
I strongly agree. But I think that’s because the entire story is based on time travel. And there’s an option where you maybe don’t get to reverse time and it goes on. So yeah.
I personally didn’t think like it. It made it so that all of the choices the player made throughout the entire game basically didn’t matter. The only choice that actually mattered and affected any outcome was the last one. What was the point of giving me any choices at all if none of them affect the true ending? 😭
MC YT Can I ask why? Chloe was really unlikeable to me, and she was willing to die for a greater cause. I just don’t see the good in choosing one girl over an entire town of innocent people 😬
MC YT So, you’d rather have everyone else in the town die than let Max, who is only one person, deal with trauma? To me, that doesn’t make sense. Anyway, I think the game was trying to tell us that Max shouldn’t have used her powers in the first place; why else would the storm be coming if she didn’t use them? Why else would Chloe die over and over only to have Max save her over and over? It’s because she was meant to die in the bathroom, and Max shouldn’t have changed that. Besides, the payoff isn’t satisfying regardless of what ending you choose. The only two possible endings are either undoing everything so no one grows as characters, or killing everyone in the town and leaving every other plot thread unresolved. In the ending where you save Chloe and let everyone else die, absolutely nothing is resolved: Chloe’s family dynamic, Kate’s depression, Rachel’s death, the crimes of Nathan and Mr. Jefferson, etc. It’s such a lazy way to wrap things up, in my opinion.
New to the channel, but wanted to leave this here because I realized this after watching the recent Foreshadowing video. Its nice to have some of these playing in the background while writing a lil bit, hearing some amazing pointers and finding the witty moments pretty funny- we love a calming vid lol
To me the most satisfying cligghanger ending was that of the book "The Giver" which just you question two things: 1. Did he and Gabe survive and came into the real world? 2. Did they die?
I love "happy ending with a cost" so much. I wrote a book with my friend and ended up having a long argument about how her character ended up permanently unable to walk (or fly. she has wings and loves flying), and it was the only thing that made sense and was a beautiful sacrifice for her, AND it was perfect and she'd saved the world, found her love, and gained acceptance, and my friend STILL tried really hard to heal her so she would have a clean happy ending, even though it made no sense with the story. At the time I had no way to explain well what was going on, but that's perfect. The happy ending should have a cost, because life has cost, and what happened to you will not leave you squeaky perfect happy clean.
I don't like time loops and a alternate dimensions, or it was all just a dream endings! I agree it makes me feel like the whole thing was a waste of time
Honestly, I've never read a book with the dream ending, but it would piss me off so bad if I read a good series with that ending. I just remember this one Spanish tv show I watched as a teen (can't remember the name) that was well loved and then it just randomly without any real reason ended with the "it was all a dream". With Cassandra Clare, I've only read the Mortal Instruments series as a whole - and for me the coupling definitely didn't bug me as much as what you said too in that everyone had to whole heartedly have a Perfect ending - like (SPOILER) Simon turning back to human in the end... By the way, as I was watching this randomly, I just thought about something - would you be interested in making a similar kind of video about people's favorite quotes from books? I just find it fun what kind of quotes stick in people's heads from their favorite books XD Would probably have mostly Harry Potter quotes, but oh well. Obviously not expecting you to consider this, I just thought that's a video I'd love to watch and I'm not a UA-camr so won't make one XD
Elina Mauno I’m showing my age but there was an American TV show called Dallas that did this with one of the main characters. He went thru all this drama and was murdered. Then at the end of the season, his wife wakes up and he’s in the shower. She dreamed the whole thing! I was so irritated by it, I never watched another episode. I hate that type of thing.
@@kazghost Yeah, I think that must be it... I can remember seeing some tv episodes with that sort of thing, and it's easier to do that I suppose than write like a 5 book series with over a 1000 pages and be like "well, it didn't actually happen"
The Mistborn Era 2 books are all a big “300 years later”. And technically it’s written from the viewpoint of outsiders living with the consequences of the hero’s actions.
The Renegades trilogy by Marissa Meyer has that! The final chapter is told from the perspective of someone who isn’t the main character. It was definitely an interesting choice!
One of the most satisfying endings I've ever read was the ending to The Bartimaeus Trilogy! It felt earned and bittersweet and on a reread there was totally foreshadowing for it.
@@rubyj9347 True, and they could have meant that, sincerely, regardless of whether or not it's accurate. Which is why I let it go. You may well be correct, however, in which case...good catch.
I honestly dislike it when an author only kills irrelevant characters more than if they don’t kill anybody. my main problem with Stormlight at the moment is nobody with any relevance to the plot dies unless it’s a way to remove an obstacle for our heroes and even then there are no consequences for their death.
What i hate the most is when everything ends in a big plot twist that wasn't foreshadowed at all and doesn't make any sense. Makes me hate the whole thing, no matter how much I liked it before the end.
"Dont be afraid to kill your characters" I dont get why some authors are afraid of that, I love killing my characters 🤣 actually one of the last ideas I had for my book was "I ended loving this character more that I expected... I'll kill him in the second book" Also, the dream/time travel thing makes me SO MAD. It's the reason why I dont like seasons 5 to 10 of doctor who, everything is fixed in the end because time travel and... no, just no
Time travel is just one of those concepts that's so hard to execute properly. It's almost impossible to not leave options for even more time travel, to not have a story that has more plot holes than plot to begin with, to the point that the choices with using the time machine feels forced, out of character, just leaving a feeling of "the writer wanted this so that's how it happened". It's kind of like soft magic, but even more dangerous for problem solving.
@Blackbriar95 It's simple, actually. The more powerful a plot device is, the less limitations it has, the more struggle it takes out of the story. Characters don't need to work as hard, or if they had, their efforts are rendered meaningless, because a deus ex machina like mechanism just magically solved the problem. It's the same thing with soft magics. They're awesome for creating a sense of wonder, for building a world, and for _creating_ conflicts, but if you solve problems with "and then the wise old wizard cast a spell that erased evil from everyone" it's just horribly unsatisfying and is barely a story. With magic, it's quite clear that even if it's soft magic, the better stories still establish rules for one or very few specific usages of the magic, rules that aren't deus ex machina themselves, and then use those, and nothing else, creatively to solve conflict. The problem with time travel is it's just incredibly hard to put proper limitations on it. It's inherently soft magic, but it's actually worse than most soft magics, in that if you try to establish those limited uses that can resolve conflict (in a satisfying way) you start running into problems really soon. I'm not saying it's impossible to do well, just that it takes a lot of skill, a lot of effort, and it's generally just replaced with handwavium instead.
@Blackbriar95 Yes it is, but if they didn't earn it, it's not really a good romance novel. Referring to "that time travel thing", it's like if you wrote a romance novel where one of the characters betrays the other repeatedly, then they fight, they part, mad at each other, and the next day just wake up and they're together again. Like, at that point, what did their struggles even matter? In this case, it's character choices that erase the consequences, not time traveling space magic, but the effect is the same. Consequences don't end up mattering, and you just told the reader what you read was all pointless because they're together and in love again. Even if it's a romance novel, it just doesn't work. This works the same for time travel. It's not about what the setting of the story is, what devices it uses, it's about how it uses them. But time manipulation, especially backwards time travel is a lot harder to use than most plot devices. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, most writers just end up using it poorly. That's not to say it's impossible, Groundhog Day does time travel extremely well for example. Yes, it's a very limited kind, but that's exactly why it works, why it can become a device that the main character ends up actually utilizing. It creates conflict, but it also solves it, and you walk away feeling the character has earned the solution. As for Doctor Who, can't speak for it, haven't seen it yet. But just because it's topic is time travel doesn't mean its use of time travel must be satisfying and well-written. It doesn't have to be wrong either, as with many other aspects, it depends on the writing.
Merphy, mate - more of these writing structure analysis for readers and authors. You do very good analysis like this. Very practical stuff. This is how I found you in the first place. Something on writing styles I think.
Cassandra Clare and Sarah J Maas and their incessant need to couple up characters at the end of their series is just...ugh I can't. I have enjoyed Cassandra Clare's later books and some characters didn't get coupled up in the Dark Artifices and that's only because it's set up for them to get together in the next series . SJM forces characters to get together to the point where the relationships feel forced because the characters have no real chemistry.
I'm curious if Jace is the most hated character male character in the mortal instruments. What about Sarah J Mass? Did she make incessant characters and forced romances
@@amandaofhouserobinson6707 oh my God how much I hated that. Nehemia's death had basically no consequences. Such Celaena being a bitch and whiny from time to time
LOTR does such a good job of bittersweet ending... how even though it was a 'happy ending' and everything was alright in the end, but somehow the journey changed something inside everybody...both the characters and the readers... there was something that we just couldnt return to.
Recently found your channel and I have to say you've quickly become one of my favorite Booktubers. I've been in what feels like a years-long reading slump but when watching your videos and seeing how passionate you are about the good and the bad things you've read makes me feel the old excitement for reading I used to feel before. I think you're doing amazing work and look forward to watching more from you!
The time jump epilogue I loved was The hunger games one. It just satisfied me. And I find it interesting that Katniss has children after all. And I think it’s a very well written epilogue, the last line just tied it perfectly for me.
I read books and other stuff (fanfics, manga...), I delay it too much...i start reading and i stop and i continue after a longer time. I love your channel, im new here, recently started watching you. The reason i did is because im working on my manga and im watching youtube vids talking about stuff like this about storied whats good whats not, im trying to gather information to make it a good story and good characters and everything and this is sooo much help... You're awsome Tysm 😭🥺
watching some of these "Dear Authors..." leaves me anticipating even more to you reading my story. I have an epilogue in my book after the book has "wrapped up", but it leaves shock to the reader and it leads into setting up book 2
Thank you for showing me how to build a TBR spreadsheet. Never thought about that. Just getting my 2022 TBR spreadsheet built to see what I am going to read for next year. However, I do have a few books that I am starting before then so yeah. Kind of already starting my 2022 list.
Super agreed about stories being all squeaky clean and only having minimal drama that doesn't really matter in the first place. The happiest endings are the ones that are earned. It's a Wonderful Life is one of the best feel-good stories, and it literally starts with a guy about to jump off a bridge and kill himself. I love it when things turn out okay (not perfect) in the end after a bunch of really serious struggling.
"When the author puts everyone in a relationship just for the sake of it." Like c'mon people, this isn't the breakfast club, we didn't just spend our Saturday in detention just for everyone to fall in love 😞
I just want to say: I love how you open sponsored videos! You don't spend 6 minutes on the ad, you put it later in the video, with a head's up at the beginning. I love it.
On the "Different Perspective at the End" point -- The Expanse series tends to use stand-alone POVs for the prologue and epilogue. Characters you only see at the start or end. It's very nice.
Negative consequences are satisfying when they resonate with the way we believe the world actually works. There's a lot of escapist fiction out there, where everything turns out great in the end (Disney). I think what you're saying is that more realistic endings, as long as they are also meaningful, constant with the tone of the book, can be really refreshing--and strike an emotional chord.
![Dear Authors... Villains [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/noP8f0WvV4c/mqdefault.jpg)
Alice in Wonderland is the only book to successfully pull off “it was all a dream,” go home authors, it’s been done!!
Not Wizard of Oz?
@Blackbriar95 oh, okay. Fair. It's been awhile since I read the book.
@@Star1412s maybe it a time-moves-differently-here thing. I also thought they found her unconscious in a field after the storm that carried her from Oz.
@DM Animation I know. I was saying that time passes differently in Oz and no one was looking for her because of the storm.
I saw a movie where this was done well. It's a Russian/Japanese anime about some paranormal happenings during the Battle of Moscow in 1942 called Last Squad. I normally hate the "it was all a dream" trope, but in Last Squad the idea that the whole movie might be the product of a damaged imagination is introduced very early and done well. I'm sure many people would hate how it was done, but I kind of liked it.
About the "the end is the start" I read a book that started with a funeral scene, and then you go the whole book wondering who died, and when it comes full circle it's just SO GOOD
What’s the book name?
@@lukewarmmess5123 it's "The Miniaturist" by Jessie Burton
Oh damn that’s a pretty good way to build suspense! You’d just constant be wondering who will die
I’m a little bit late but I read a book with a similar deal going on, and it was SO GOOOOD. It revolved around a bunch of different stories from a bunch of different characters, and it started with one of them falling to their death, but it doesn’t say who it is. Then the stories converge at the end so you see exactly what events led up to it and UGH it was a really good book lmao
I don’t remember the name of the book exactly but the premise was something about a skyscraper in the future with 1000 floors?
@@Cindyisadog The thousandth floor. I hated that book, have no idea what you'd talking about.
Specifically about the "nineteen years later" ending, I think its whole purpose was to shut out sequels and other options to continue the story. But I guess we all know the curse that followed...
Literally
The Book That Must Not Be Named
Totally agreed. This is usually done by authors who want to have complete control over their stories, characters and fictional universes. But as it's been proved recently, more money may change the minds of the most conservative and jealous authors.
May I offer you a cough drop, @@lil_astrid_adderal?
The curse of the cursed child
I've never seen a "then 20 years later" epilogue that included anything except people being married, pregnant and having kids. No matter who the characters are, and what strange and unique dreams they had for their future, this is the only possible epilogue.
Assassination classroom handled this frustratingly well. To the point where it seemed the mangaka purposefully wanted to leave you unfulfilled with some characters
Oh my god, right??? A woman can have dreams of some amazing adventure or achievement, but then “life has unexpected miracles,” she gets pregnant and discovers all she wanted the whole time was a child 🙄
Ah, this comes from manga, but I have one your comment brought to mind. *_Spoilers_* for anyone interested in the *_Bleach_* manga or final season that's coming up.
Besides the fact that Ichigo and Rukia didn't end up together (that was my Bleach OTP and seemed to be hinted at in all kinds of official materials; my Black Sun White Moon homies know what I'm talking about), I was upset because no one actually ended up achieving the life they wanted. Ichigo seemed like he was getting built up to live in Soul Society full-time and become a Captain of the Court Guard/Gotei and follow in his father's footsteps in that way. Instead, he took over his father's clinic.
And later on, I had others point out to me how no one else did anything that aligned with their dreams as teenagers either. Orihime (who I disliked, but that's separate from this), was a girl who said she wanted to do so many things that she wished she had multiple lives so she could do them all. She didn't want a domestic life at all, and yet she ended up Ichigo's housewife. Ishida, who said he never wanted to be a doctor or take over his father's hospital did exactly that. He turned into an absolute workaholic doctor just like his father. And Chad, who made a promise to his grandfather that he would never use his strength for his own gain became a professional boxer. What on Earth happened there?
In general, Bleach's writing just went downhill, starting from after the Soul Society arc (the Soul Society arc was a masterpiece on its own though), but it was really hitting rock-bottom after the Fullbring arc. It caused the cancellation of the anime, and it's speculated to have also caused the early ending of the manga. But was Tite Kubo's writing so bad he really forgot the desires of characters he had been writing for 15 years? Or was this commentary about teenagers growing up to be a lot more like their parents than they ever wanted to be? It doesn't feel that way. It's no wonder it's common speculation that Kubo intentionally flipped the switch on all of these characters after having his manga cancelled just to piss off readers.
To anyone who read this far, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
What about the Sandlot and Stand by Me epilogues? There’s a couple characters that get married and have kids but there’s also a couple weird ones.
I'm literally so sensitive I'm not allowed to watch nature docos because I cry when animals die but when it comes to stories I demand pain and suffering.
I dated a girl that I had to distract while I was driving so she wouldn’t notice a dead animal on the side of the road.
That said I’m still mad when authors kill characters. I get attached to my homies lol.
@@keithshaw3272 That's sweet. I can't stand watching dead animals on roads either, it genuinely makes me sad
Just hope y'all are vegan lmao
😂 so true, I can't read a novel thats all rainbows and sparkles
Yesss me too, can’t watch any nature docos or anything
“Don’t be afraid to kill of characters”
JoJo’s Bizzare Adventure: I fear nothing
😂 😂 😂
Every. Single. Part... My fav character dies.... Except part 4... But he 'died' at least three times 😫
@@gravetiger9333 Pretty sure he only died twice.
@@underdrow5572 maybe.... It felt like more than that but i haven't seen it in awhile
"OOHHHH NOOOO!!!!"
My favorite endings are the ones that make me want to reread the entire thing to look for clues of how I could have missed that
AndYouWillBeWithMe agreed
Do people actually re read books tho?
@@dhenderson319 yup, some people
@@dhenderson319 oh definitely. I have read almost all of the books on my shelf at least three times. In the last two years I've read harry potter sooooooooooo many times
I love those endings as well or when I look back I see how obvious the foreshadowing was
I dont understand authors who don't want us to guess a twist ending. as a reader, I love the satisfying feeling when I scream "I KNEW IT!!", it makes me feel rewarded for paying attention to the story.
The "(X) character was a figment of their imagination" it's either done well, blows your mind, and makes sense.
Or it creates massive plot holes and continuity errors.
You mean ch-
_gets shot_
I agree- when it was planned from the beginning it works, like The Sixth Sense, or imagined relationships with people (2019 Joker), it can be so awesome!
@@Maddie-sn7yt yeah but he wasn't a figment, he was a ghost (still awesome movie tho!!)
The only book I've seen this done well in was Dream Fall
Maddie I was just about to say the sixth sense. It works so well
Moral to the story: READERS AND WRITERS LOVE PAIN. BRING ON THE PAIN.
😂😂
No, they hate pain. But they love it more.
@Tiela This is what happens to me too skdnjdjd like in AOT or Stranger things
Soft disagree I'm three volumes into a story where the MC didn't follow the "heros jouney" and went to start a farm. I don't think anything real sad has happened. I think it will get a 4th read through.
@@asingleshot7 this is valid as well, although it's funny cuz I happen to be currently reading a farmer story that's the opposite
For me the most important thing is that the ending fits the tone und genre of the book. The book was full of grit and traumatic experiences, don't write an artificial clean ending. The book had a mystery, solve the mystery in a believable way. You wrote a feel good romance novel, make sure your reader feels all gooey inside at the end. Be honest about what book you are writing and than keep doing that all the way to the end.
Also, no cliffhangers! I hate them in any genre.
I personally like cliffhangers IF it gets resolved in the next book.
.
@@eelio8469 I personally like cliffhangers IF there is an apology note from the author in the next book.
@@eelio8469 agreed
I love cliffhanger , even without a second book. The way it tortured me is like no other.
"Don't give people what they want, give them what they need."
-Joss Whedon
He LOVED to kill popular characters
We did not need josstice league
@@kerodelkigh I am a leaf on the wind watch how I -
I don't get why people think inspiring negative emotions from art - like sadness and anger - is seen as better than inspiring joy and hope. We give so much critical praise to books and films that are miserable and far less prestige to works that make us happy, curious and laugh.
Kind of agree. I think both are good if they're written well, and both are annoying if they rely too much on cheap tricks and coincidences. Don't write a happy ending just to please the fans. Don't write an unhappy one just to break their hearts. Write an ending that feels like it pays off and makes the story grow, whether it's happy, funny, tragic, bittersweet, twisted or surprising.
It depends on the rest of the book for me. If the book is about the characters going through something dark or dangerous, it doesn’t make sense for everything to suddenly be sunny and joyful at the end. If the story is about characters striving for a goal or finding their purpose or love, I love happy endings.
I think both are valuable and important. Imo, a great story has high *and* lows
I don't want to hear it I don't , 👊 agreed
I think a mixture of the two can work pretty well. For instance, some of the best books I've read are ones where the character goes through hardships that basically leave me sobbing my eyes out, but perseveres and eventually reaches a happy ending. It can work well if done correctly.
"kill a character that hurts you to kill"
*uncle rick snickering in the distance*
I still cry over Zoë's death even tho I reread it 19 times now
“Bob says hello”
@@not-so-happypappypatton damn bro you really got me cryin in the club rn
Harry Potter Spoiler ahead I guess so yeah...
I always kinda wanted Harry Potter to die in the end. To go into the woods and sacrifice himself for all of the people he loved, like his mother did for him. And then there was a magical covering over everyone because of his sacrifice that anytime Voldemort tried to kill it wouldn't touch them. And then you'd have Neville fulfill the other side of the prophecy. I love Harry Potter and like the ending but I would have loved that ending I think.
Me too! Glad that im not the only who wanted Harry to die 😊
Joseph Hanson yep, me too...
Ooo, I never thought that possibility but I think it would've been a nice one. Not sure if better than the real one but maybe even that.
Yep that's very much the ending I wanted too. And we so nearly got it.
I don't know because... Yes it would be really interesting, but Harry is my favourite character and i don't want him to die. Also i don't think that the fact that he came back made his sacrifice less meaningful, he still really believed he was going to die and i cry everytime i read the chapter when he goes to the forest to die even though i know he won't die but it's still so emotional...
Also i think it'd be weird that the rest of the story wouldn't be told from Harry's POV after 7 books that we only saw it from Harry's eyes.
I really hate the 19 years later chapter though lol.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why."
I prefer an upbeat ending, more often than not. There's no single approach that fits all narratives, of course, and the tone of the story is a large factor in determining how crushed the tale needs to leave you at the end in order to feel satisfying. A clean finish to ASoIaF/Game of Thrones would feel absurd, for example, and the HP series probably shouldn't end with Voldemort standing over the maimed corpses of the three kids.
For me, personally, it comes down to what the author is trying to say with their choices, and when killing beloved fantasy characters we've followed for years of our lives that message should be more worthwhile than "things don't always work out in real life." Just my two cents.
"A clean finish to ASoIaF/Game of Thrones would feel absurd."
Well ASoIaF isn't finished but.....
yes! I love LOTR
Sorry to bring Marvel into this, but Infinity War is a great example of what you're talking about. It does not have a happy ending, but rather an inevitable one. If the Avengers had been united, then they could have had a chance, but they weren't (because of Civil War) and it cost them dearly.
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy thanks for this explanation I've been looking for a logical way to end my story on a bad note.
One of my favorite endings ever: The main character dies shockingly and their best friend is left to lead the story in THEIR way while everything is wrapped up. It was epic.
Spoiler
Hero of Ages by Brando Sando!
Vin and Elend dying was perfect and then having Sazed be the Hero of Ages when you thought everything pointed to Vin was awesome. Whats even more awesome is that everything is foreshadowed in the first book.
What book was this?
I would do this except I’m writing in first person so that would be kind of weird...
@@drlc6051 The Wings of a Falcon by Cynthia Voigt
Not a book, but something like this happens in Hamilton and I loved it.
Sherlock Holmes is super guilty of never giving the reader a chance.
Every damn time he pulls some nonsense out of his hat that the reader had absolutely no chance of knowing.
The type of cigar ash, the composition of dirt on a shoe, some detail he got from the damn 1895 register of European nobility (on a fictional noble, of course) and the reader wasn't informed of it until Holmes explains to Watson how he did it.
You're not really writing a super smart savant detective, you are just withholding critical information from the reader to make sure they couldn't even guess in the right ballpark!
Agreed. Thats why I liked the Poirot series better because you can always find some clues and it makes for an elevated experience.
@@mohanamukhopadhyay8110 Poirot the goat
I kinda disagree because as some into forensics I promise it makes sense and it’s more of a pay off moment. The reader is supposed to be Watson, not Sherlock, so if you do figure it with Sherlock it’s amazing, if not, that’s fine you aren’t supposed to. Of course I’m thinking of the books, Sherlock by bbc does suffer from what you said quite a bit, even changing just to twist or spite the books.
Then we have authors who kill off major characters but you never connected with them in the first place and even though you're "supposed" to feel sad when the MC/love interest/ best friend/mentor/ sibling dies your only reaction is that you're grateful that you don't have to read about that bland, uninteresting and/or annoying person anymore.
Love Story was once the best selling book. The fad for years was called, "Kiss me, then carry me." There were thousands of imitations. Just having a romance novel end with two live characters was an impossible dream. It was not the style.
"There's some greath romances where characters die."
Like, um, the most famous romance in history
Unpopular opinion: I see Romeo and Juliet more as a tragic comedy than a romance
@@riverdaisy4215 it was written to display how stupid people in love are, so agree
Unpopular opinion: I hate Romeo and Juliet. Ever since I was a kid, I thought they were stupid to kill themselves, because they couldn't be together. THEY WERE TEENS! They didn't know what love really was
I thought you were talking about Wuthering Heights at first 🤭
The official title is called _The Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet._ Shakespeare never actually wrote a romance.
So people don't like happy endings but also don't like the dreary finale of mockingjay. Interesting. This is specifically the reason I love the hunger games and don't understand why people hate the last book so much.
The main problem i have with it is that it does not fit the themes of the story
for me the story was about hope/ making the world a better place and so on and then it ended on such a depressing note
while i personnaly generally prefer bittersweet ending, i dislike endings the most which contradict the themes of the story
I think the main reason people dislike the ending to Mockingjay is because so many people read it when they were young and weren’t expecting a downer ending. I was spoiled for it going in, and so I really enjoyed the ending. I think if people reread Mockingjay, they’d appreciate the ending a lot more.
In my case, if I remeber correctly (I read it a long time ago) -i didn't like it because everything felt forced and just for shock value. I like several points of that book, but, for example, I didn't care for most deads because of how they happened, and that was so weird considering how attatched I was to the characters. Those books for me were a story of a revolution, people fighting to be free, the author was very good transmiting that in the arenas but the third book feels just forced. And to top it, at the very end we don''t get how the world changed, just katniss depresingly living with peeta. I didn't like it, not because it was sad, but because it made me feel absolutely nothing (Hope I made my point clear, I'm pretty bad explaining my thoughts ^^')
I didn't like Mockingjay because it was so boring
I guess it just depends how you look at it. For some people, it was "depressing" and a "downer," but I was actually deeply touched and inspired by it, personally. I loved how it ended with the message that no matter how hurt you are, how much life can beat you down, you can pick up the pieces and rebuild. ♥
It'll never be the same as it was, and the wounds you suffered will always be there, but that doesn't mean that the life you build afterward can't be every bit as good. For people who live with trauma, it's an empowering message to know that erasing/forgetting/getting over the trauma is not the way to reach a happy ending. Accepting it, finding ways to live with it, and having the strength to find happiness DESPITE it, is what matters. The ending of Mockingjay might be bittersweet, but so is life.
For me, that fit the themes of the first two books beautifully.
“Don’t be a afraid to kill your characters”
Like I agree but to an extent. Like for example, and I’m not talking about the show, but Game of Thrones was great at this. The death of characters furthered the plot and created tense situations between characters. But don’t and I mean don’t kill characters just for the sake of killing them off and to add shock value for your audience. The show Game Of Thrones is very guilty of this especially in later seasons once they diverted from the books. They killed characters that they didn’t need to and their deaths didn’t further the plot in any way at all, hell I forget they even died or existed because it was that insignificant.
If you are writing and want to kill a character off that’s great, you do that, but think about it in the context of the story. Will it push the plot more? Will it add to a character? Will your readers actually care about it and not forget it?
I think it is interesting that some authors go for that sort of twist ending (a dream the whole time, x character who you didn't think would die, dies!), but the interesting part of a twist is the fallout and exploration of it, not just the twist itself. If it is gonna be a dream, then it would be way more interesting for that to happen halfway through the story. If you're gonna kill a major character, doing it with 20 pages left leaves no space to appropriately explore that.
oh hi there mr gamer guy
Yes!
*spoiler alert*
A great example of this is Gone Girl. We get the story from Amy's perspective at first and I so fell for her narrative that even when I found out everything was crafted I still had a hard time adjusting my perspective on the story and realizing certain things were lies. Also, it served the story so well: it showed us just how paranoid and clever Amy can be and helped us understand the public and the detectives that fall for her story, because we know how convincing she sounds.
I wrote a story where the main character dies in the end and it’s kind of a twist but you can also see it coming. I kind of want it to be something where it all clicks and you look back and go “this was the only way” I don’t think it’s really a twist but it’s still cool I guess. I made sure that being dead was a happy ending for the main character though because she kind of lost purpose when the love interest was murdered so death was her happy ending.
"this is a thriller!"
ad: " _this_ is a tomato. "
_you’re_ not a dish, you’re a _man_
I hate (I think this is probably specific to thrillers/mystery) when people spend the entire book keeping a "deep dark secret" that ends up being an *accident* that they could have just reported at the time instead of making it a huge overbearing mysterious thing. It makes me so mad 😂🙈.
Ug same
I think the movie, Knives Out does this trope well.
I love the ending of the Lord of the Rings. Every time I read it I feel so deeply sad and melancholy and satisfied. Nothing will ever be the same again.
I don't think happy endings have to necessarily be bittersweet, but they absolutely must be earned.
I like to think that Merphy is talking about one single thriller in this video and she just has a lot of feelings about it.
"Don't be afraid to kill your characters period!"
I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that. Of course in many situations (i.e. in an all-out war) it is appropriate, but it's certainly not necessary in every book. And I HATE when a character dies for (what seems like) pure shock value. I watched a movie awhile back that killed off its CHILD PROTAGONIST after the main conflict was seemingly resolved, and I still haven't gotten over it, lol. Although I realize that the line between a "shock death" and a "death with meaning" is a pretty fine and subjective one.
Another thing: it often seems like authors think that a beloved character's death is the ONLY way to evoke strong emotion from the audience - look at any "Top Ten Saddest Book/Movie Endings" list and it's just tragic death after tragic death. Personally I think that other events - like a failed romance or friendship, or a character permanently leaving a comfortable chapter of their life for an unknown or scary one - can be just as effective, and I wish authors explored them more.
Agreed! I saw a thing once where after the main conflict was resolved a side character suddenly killed the main character who was their close friend. It made zero sense and left me so angry. It felt like the only reason this was done was to avoid a happy ending.
I think there's a fine line between "Not being afraid of killing characters" and "kill characters just cause lol"
I agree. Sometimes it works well (Rogue One does this well imo) but sometimes it doesn’t (not to spoil, but the death in the sewer from Mockingjay since their death was unnecessary and never discussed)
This is a good point. I love a well-played death, but it needs to fit the story.
I’m reading this as I edit the end of my PitchWars manuscript and trying to see if I can avoid some of these bad endings....
I 100% agree. A character death should have a purpose. If I'm going to go through pain, I don't want it to be for no reason.
I love a good mic drop ending, when a character says one line that is just right and then walks off. It can be just something to make you smile, an I told you so or a hint at some deeper meaning and many other things...as long as it is the right line from the right character.
I agree. I think that the last page and especially the last sentence is the most important part, that final moment in this world that you have spent so much time in is priceless and it needs to give the reader a semblance of closer, maybe it doesn’t tell us that they all lived happily ever after but it still needs to show that somehow, after all they have been through, things will work themselves out. It’s also really fun to have a parallel between the first and last sentence of the book or series, it just feels like it came full circle.
Like Iron Man?
Unpopular opinion: I love the 19 year epilogue of Harry Potter.. I don't know. I love having that little flashforward to what happens to Harry. After having lost so many people, after never having had a family, after all the crap he had to go through I loved being able to see him forming a family of his own, being happy besides everything that has happened to him and just I loved being able to see that little bit of his future.
I don't mind epilogues... And again putting Harry Potter as example; their happy ending came at a huge costs of lives and I don't think the epilogue changed that
It works for that tone of story, but in a lot of other more light hearted stories with barely any romance, it doesn’t work that well.
It was just feel good. Didn’t add or take anything away. Just gave us a weird name to make fun of.
I'm not mad at the fact that it's 19 years later or that he formed a family but I was disappointed that everyone ended up with their teenage crushes. Like noone grew apart and found someone new or didn't want to have kids or realised that they were gay or fell in love with a muggle?
I actually liked the epilogue too until the last line “all was well.” That killed it for me. It was waaaaaaaay too obvious and basic and honestly just bad writing. The original last line that she took out honestly gives me chills and is so much better because it casts Harry into the realm of myth (“Ginny was the only one who could still see his scar.”)
I think the epilogue was important - or at least useful - because it allowed Harry to explicitly show he had forgiven Snape and come to understand him.
It also served as an excuse to provide us with one more subtle line of philosophy - that you can be brave no matter what you are or seem - supporting the overall theme of the series (It's your choices that matter!).
There was some narm in the epilogue, I admit, but I still wouldn't have cut it.
In one book I read it has a squeaky-clean perfect ending where all the bad things throughout the entire series were reversed and everything was good and they got their fairytale ending. But there was a twist, the ending for all the characters was terrible. Because when they got the perfect ending no-one was the same. One character went from a battle-hardened queen with PTSD to a soft-spoken gentle character. Another one went from a reporter who knew what it was like to grow up in hardship to a prince who had never worked a day in his life. And the character who made the wish to change everything to be perfect was transformed into a fairy from a spunky run-away princess with an adorable relationship. Luckily they manage to fix with some help from a printing press and magic.
The characters got their perfect fairytale ending and hated it.
What book was it? Would love to read it :)
Spoiler for JoJo
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This reminds me of JoJo part 6, where the villain Pucci resets the universe and all of humanity is supposed to be happy I guess, but while the main characters now live a better life, they lost who they once were and that really hit me hard.
dunno if any jojofans watch this channel but just wanted to leave this here
@@gganbp didn't realise this was a jojo spoiler, should have mentioned. I'm still on part 1
@@annaferns1840 oh shit i'm so sorry bruh, hope you didn't read all of it, gonna edit the comment to mention it's jojo
Ooooh that’s interesting. Moral is to be careful what they wish for cos they might get it.
For me an ending has to fit to the story that was told in terms of themes, character arcs,plot ...
While happy endings can often feel foced and be unsatisfying, i equally dislike it when an author intentionally makes a bad/bittersweet ending when it does not fit the story at all
Very true
The ending where you notice that everything, even the smallest details, were planned from the start, is what was done in Harry Potter. It's one of the reasons why I love the series so much. Especially during book 7, i spent half of my time thinking "Holy shit, thing x or character y from the first book(s) actually had a greater purpose".
It's not that hard to do. The hooks she left that she didn't follow up on are hooks you don't notice, but there might be a few of them lying around as well. It's like a 'forced choice' magic trick, where the outcome is a given regardless of what you say. You notice the part you get shown, you don't notice the other options that got left unrevealed.
Merphy: GIVE ME THAT DEATH AND EMOTION!!
Real LIfe : Okay
*cries in Hero of Ages*
"Yep, that's the stuff right there." Sniffles. Dries eyes. So good. Sniffles.
@@Hadrian1616 I mean... I did LOVE the way it ended
@@Hadrian1616 I didn't cry when I read it but like an hour after I finished the book and I looked back onto it I was crying like a baby. And God did that feel good.
@@alexandra1695 mmmmm....totally. I was huddled under warm blankets weeping and sucking my thumb for days. At the end of that coma, I sighed, "I really needed that."
The whole video had me thinking about the difference between book and movie end on Twilight. They spend most of the book preparing for a battle that doesn't happen and it's just like wtf why did i read that. Then I went to watch the movie and... (spoiler, I guess?)
they have a battle that actually never happened lol I WAS LAUGHING SO HARD it took me some time to leave the theater lol Just to think of it I laugh. It was so freaking funny. And the battle was GOOD damn they were not afraid to kill characters and in a violent way too! And it was never real. Really Twilight is so trash but the battle in the movie was a genious move.
Best part of the entire film series honestly
The screenwriters obviously knew more about good storytelling than the book's author.
The book sucked really, really _badly,_ but I still went with my wife to watch the damn movie ... and the screenwriters saved it by adding that battle.
@@pauligrossinoz yes, the book had one of the worse endings I ever read but the movie was amazing.
I don't know if this makes sense, but I find that "character driven" plot twists work the best. When one of the characters lures both the reader and the main character into a false sense of security, makes you think the story will go one way, and then the band-aid is ripped and it's revealed that character isn't who you think they are at all. As opposed to something happening TO the characters through the plot as the twist.
Oo can you recommend some books that you've read that matches that trope?
@@ducklingugly6850 Sure, but bear in mind these are technically spoilers. I'm only going to mention the series they happen in and not the exact books:
A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J Maas
Folk of the Air Series by Holly Black
The Remnant Chronicles by Mary E Pearson has this in there
Furyborn by Claire Legrand
Royal Bastards by Andrew Shvarts
Cracks by Sheila Kohler - this one....is so creepy. I won't spoil, but don't trust the people telling the story.
Claire of the Sea Light by Edwidge Danticat - this isn't your typical novel. It starts off with a little girl going missing and with every chapter we rewind in time a bit to see what a different character was doing and then we keep going back in time to see how things that happened in the past led up to this point and the reveals of what some characters have done is really cool. So if you like unique narrative structure, this one is cool.
A Separate Peace by John Knowles
What about a plot twist where a character becomes something else in real time for the story, not a "surprise I was really ____"
@@fangsabre You're talking about a corruption arc. The only one I've read that I think was done well was Furyborn and Kingsbane by Claire Legrand
@@Ali-zn6sg interesting. I was asking because I had a sortof epiphany about what I want one of the themes of my story to be. A positive change arc juxtaposed with another characters corruption arc, ending with the corrupted character being an example of what could've happened to the other character had they not experienced a positive change based around philosophical differences as well as similarities. I dont want to go into specifics of what philosophy exactly cuz thats a whole essay on its own
As for endings where you see a different perspective at the end, I know both Six of Crows and its sequel end with a chapter from the villain's perspective, which are just absolutely delicious to read.
The fun thing about the 'everyone couples up at the end' plot is that it feels like the characters break the fourth wall. They start relationships just because they are aware of being at the end of their book.
You mean, they see the end of the book and develop a fear of being left on the shelf?
@@Alresu you didn’t
@@Alresu stop I can’t 🥲🤣
@@anwenm they did ha
Honestly the only time the “19 years later” worked for me was the ending of Clockwork Princess by Cassandra Claire
spoilers
Seeing everyone grow up as Tessa stayed the same age and seeing people she loved die from old age makes me cry every time because we know as readers she still alive and living even though everyone she loved (except for Jem) has died. It really hits the curse immortality on its head and is such a tear jerker. You don’t have to read this part of the book but it fits so perfectly with the story.
haha that ending broke me.
I hear people always complaining about how fantasy (and sometimes even sci-fi) always has a big epic battle at the end or the main character fighting the villian. They say "Why can't it end different or have the fight in the middle of the book or something". But then if there wasn't a big fight at the end and the villian was defeated in some other way, people would be disappointed and think it was extremely anti-climactic. So there are people who do like the big fight ending, which happens to be the majority. And then there are people who don't and can't get there way even if the ending was done with a battle or fight or face off.
To some extent, you are saying that epic fantasy is very samey. And you are right. It’s hard to be epic without that formula. The solution is to not write epic fantasy. I really like character focused fantasy where not much happens but the dialogue is really interesting. Unfortunately, there are very few authors that do that and I think that is partly because most readers demand epic fantasy.
I mean... the root of all our big epic fantasy, Lord of the Rings, has the final battle literally in the middle of the final book. And the battle is not between hero and villain (neither of them is there to battle anything). They shortened everything after the climax for the movies, but these things are still in there to some extent.
And you know how endlessly people complained about the "fifty endings" of Return of the King, and how many people hate Frodo as a protagonist because he's just "a damsel in distress who whines all the time" and not a cool fighter who slays villains left and right.
(And to be perfectly clear, I love the way it's done in LOTR and don't agree with those people at all, but apparently they exist).
@@baguettegott3409 I also love lord of the rings, but it got hate because of the way it ended which is my point exactly. All people want is a formulaic fighting the big bad in the final few chapters and a 30-40-60 page recap. And then when it isn't formulaic like that, people are calling it anti climactic. So, what I'm trying to say is; it's physically impossible to make everyone happy with an ending or a book in general.
@@matthewc5747 That's very true. Lord of the Rings is obviously loved by a lot of people, so you can do the non-formulaic ending and still be successful, but more *despite* the ending than *because* of it. And as you said, there's no point in trying to make everyone happy because that is just not going to happen.
"I've read a thriller like that recently" comes up so many times!!! Poor Merphy! lol
I don’t actually care if the ending is clean. Of course it depends on the book, and I also like the trauma thing.
But I really think both need to exist. Sometimes I just want to be happy at the end of a book, even if it actually makes no sense.
killing the characters you get attached to is the worst thing to do as a writer. it hurts so much to have a character you love so much get killed off. and then you add onto that knowing you’re the one killing them.
I hate the 19 years later epilogue... I like to imagine myself what happens next.
It is even worse when you disagree with what happens in the future.
"19 years later: All your favourite characters are married to each other instead of meeting anyone new. They also all have children. The end."
The Harry Potter epilogue I was not a fan of, I was really not a fan of.
SAME
A graduation celebration of the double class (or whatever you want to call the combined 6th and 7th year classes where the people were allowed to come back and have proper schooling the next year) would have been so much better. Some shipping foder, what are you doing next conversations, and no forced "hey kid, I named you after the guy who was an ass to me for 6 years, but I forgive him, because he wanted to be with my mom, which *cough cough* is why the audience should love him."
If you like bittersweet endings, Harry Bosch mysteries. For everything that guy does, he pays with pain and you feel like he’ll never get ahead, even when he wins. Breaks my heart.
I actually like clean endings if they feel earned. If it doesn't rely on coïncidences or other cheap tricks solving everything or characters acting completely out of character, I am totally up for a hopeful, feel-good, neatly wrapped up ending.
This isn't the only type of ending I like though. I like watching the protagonist slowly develop into a villain (or getting overtaken by their character flaw) and then watching their downfall. I like bittersweet ones too. The bad endings I don't like are tragic or harsh endings that rely on coïncidences and shock value and misunderstandings that could've been solved with one conversation. Or depressing stories with no hope, where the main character starts out sad or bored or lonely and at the end of the story is still sad or bored or lonely without having changed.
Dude, I just read a story that tied the beginning and the ending so well. It was literally just a phrase and I didn’t notice at first.
It was a romance story where the MC got his heart broken at the start and said, “If the flowers bloomed, would you remember me?”. (Flowers was a special thing for the main couple) Then, at the end, the MC died and his lover, who had over heard this phrase at the start, ended the story with, “Even if the flowers never bloomed again, I could never forget you.”
I didn’t quite remember the phrase at first, but then a flash back to when the MC was broken hearted reminded me of the phrase and I was in tears.
Aww
title please-?
Brandon Sanderson has killed off every favourite character I have ever had in the books I've read so far. EVERY SINGLE TIME. And I love and hate him for it.
Me too ❤️
I'm the opposite lol. I loved mistborn, until he killed off my favorite character. I was pissed, waited several years to read another of his books. I wonder how many times Stormight archive is going to break my heart =(
I think he puts more effort into characters that will die to generate emotional impact. In a way, it’s a flaw in his writing. He may not even realize he’s doing it. One consequence of being an author who plans everything meticulously is that it’s hard to get the emotional tone right because you know where it’s going. Contrast it to authors who just write with a bare outline, where they are focused on each moment.
Slugging through Well of Ascension. Not the same without Book 1 character. 250 pages in and I’m just now getting interested in the story. I know it’s all setting up for something but I feel like the Zane character was just added to get some Mistborn showdown wish fulfillment. Can’t say for sure until I finish it.
This reminds me of one trilogy I read on Wattpad. In the last paragraph the titles off all three books were included. In that moment I realized how amazing that story actually is. All the major plot lines came to an end but you weren't sure how exactly the story could continue
Surprised I saw so much disdain towards happy endings throughout that entire thread. I mean I get it if they aren't done well but, wow.
Some people like to watch the world burn. I am not those people.
ikr like i get attached to the characters and it hurts if they die
@@BrainWitchSiv As someone who is not one of those people...and likes bittersweet/earned endings. People by and large fail at endings. Or put another way [happy ending that aren't written well often] Just having a happy ending does not make it a good ending. Further, as much as people want escapism, I think life is hard for a lot of people, which people want to see? Some...anyway? It feels largely, a nuanced thing ,then...just saying people want to watch the world burn - wanting something that persists and lingers inside. As a writer the reason I am writer, one of them, anyway, is because of poor endings.
For instance how many people practice writing endings? Let alone want to see the ending to their story that they wrote for years and years? People who arent even writers...have a hard time letting go. Aka, the sunken cost fallacy.
Perhaps if folks i.e writers wrote better happy endings people who may otherwise dislike [read me and others] could like it?
I think what everyone wants is an EARNED ending. Having a complete cast after a great war doesnt feel earned so i guess that is why people wants some to die.
ONLY YMIRS KNOWS
Nah, I rather have happy endings after all the drama on a story. Real world is shitty enough as it is, it just gets stupidly depressing and edgy, it almost seems as if a story is not okay or realistic if the author doesn't kill someone important at the end, even if it doesn't make sense. I'm so tired of this trend...
I agree that if it doesn't make sense it shouldn't be done. Never do something just to do it. But I understand that endings that include sacrifice aren't for everyone
I've been struggling to find books to read that aren't depressing, I'm writing light hearted slightly comedic love stories through different eras from the late Stuarts to current day. All the same family, each book focusing on the children of the leads of the previous book. There's dark moments, but overall it's happy, the characters all get their happy ending.
@@RegencyLady-ho2ik Try reading "The Infinites", by John Banville. I felt it was a little strange at the beginning, but it's funny and it isn't a ending with consequences. You could also try "Everything Matters" by Ron Currie Jr., it has some drama, but it's a very touching story and the end is quite satisfactory.
Sunarlyn Hissena +
I like bitter Sweet endings. One that make sense but isn't
'Everyone is Happy ever after. '
Put it's also isn't
'everyone one dies and the world is dull. '
Omg I loved the Cassandra Clare couples. They warm my heart and honestly one of the MAIN REASONS I truly enjoy those books. Ehh to each her own 🤷🏻♀️
You should turn these into a podcast or something! Your tips help me with my writing, thanks for doing such a great job and best of luck with the adoption process (heard you mention it in another video)...
Thank you so much!
I also loved the ending of each of the Warrior Cat books. Every ending was a cliffhanger which made me want to read the next book. I never actually got past the first series though lol
Well, for me of the the best endings that I've read was the ending of Mockingjay. It was wrenching and heartbreaking, but it showed the consequences of the war and everything bad that happened, it had some important deaths throughtout and most of all showed how much Katniss was destroyed and broken. I think it's a great example of a bittersweet ending, where the epilogue worked so well, showing thay even though they "won" and katniss was able to move on with her life along side with Peeta, they would be forever damaged. That ending killed me and I love it so much
Yes. Yes. Yes.
This whole video is basically just "I read a thriller".
I think Life is Strange managed to pull off the "reversing time back when everything was fine" trope pretty well. (I know it's not a book) I think it can be pulled off as long as there is a key difference or a sacrifice the protagonist has to make. Idk it's just my opinion
I strongly agree. But I think that’s because the entire story is based on time travel. And there’s an option where you maybe don’t get to reverse time and it goes on. So yeah.
I personally didn’t think like it. It made it so that all of the choices the player made throughout the entire game basically didn’t matter. The only choice that actually mattered and affected any outcome was the last one. What was the point of giving me any choices at all if none of them affect the true ending? 😭
lmao i definitely chose chloe over arcadia bay though 😂
MC YT Can I ask why? Chloe was really unlikeable to me, and she was willing to die for a greater cause. I just don’t see the good in choosing one girl over an entire town of innocent people 😬
MC YT So, you’d rather have everyone else in the town die than let Max, who is only one person, deal with trauma? To me, that doesn’t make sense. Anyway, I think the game was trying to tell us that Max shouldn’t have used her powers in the first place; why else would the storm be coming if she didn’t use them? Why else would Chloe die over and over only to have Max save her over and over? It’s because she was meant to die in the bathroom, and Max shouldn’t have changed that.
Besides, the payoff isn’t satisfying regardless of what ending you choose. The only two possible endings are either undoing everything so no one grows as characters, or killing everyone in the town and leaving every other plot thread unresolved. In the ending where you save Chloe and let everyone else die, absolutely nothing is resolved: Chloe’s family dynamic, Kate’s depression, Rachel’s death, the crimes of Nathan and Mr. Jefferson, etc. It’s such a lazy way to wrap things up, in my opinion.
New to the channel, but wanted to leave this here because I realized this after watching the recent Foreshadowing video. Its nice to have some of these playing in the background while writing a lil bit, hearing some amazing pointers and finding the witty moments pretty funny- we love a calming vid lol
"don't be afraid to kill your characters period" ksksksksks merphy oh my god
what if you write nonfiction, can you still kill your characters?
@@DeeSnow97 i mean... i guess?
@@DeeSnow97 if you write one about JFK or Joan of Arch you can. I guess?
Disney be like: "No one's ever really gone..."
To me the most satisfying cligghanger ending was that of the book "The Giver" which just you question two things:
1. Did he and Gabe survive and came into the real world?
2. Did they die?
I LOVED THAT. It felt like a beginning to the end of the story!! slsksks
I love the end of the Giver. It makes me happy even though it's super ambiguous
I love "happy ending with a cost" so much. I wrote a book with my friend and ended up having a long argument about how her character ended up permanently unable to walk (or fly. she has wings and loves flying), and it was the only thing that made sense and was a beautiful sacrifice for her, AND it was perfect and she'd saved the world, found her love, and gained acceptance, and my friend STILL tried really hard to heal her so she would have a clean happy ending, even though it made no sense with the story. At the time I had no way to explain well what was going on, but that's perfect. The happy ending should have a cost, because life has cost, and what happened to you will not leave you squeaky perfect happy clean.
This deserves a hundred more likes. “Happy ending at a cost” valid!!!
whole video in one sentence:
"I read a thriller..."
I don't like time loops and a alternate dimensions, or it was all just a dream endings! I agree it makes me feel like the whole thing was a waste of time
As an inexperienced writer and a veteran reader, I love this series so much
Honestly, I've never read a book with the dream ending, but it would piss me off so bad if I read a good series with that ending. I just remember this one Spanish tv show I watched as a teen (can't remember the name) that was well loved and then it just randomly without any real reason ended with the "it was all a dream".
With Cassandra Clare, I've only read the Mortal Instruments series as a whole - and for me the coupling definitely didn't bug me as much as what you said too in that everyone had to whole heartedly have a Perfect ending - like (SPOILER) Simon turning back to human in the end...
By the way, as I was watching this randomly, I just thought about something - would you be interested in making a similar kind of video about people's favorite quotes from books? I just find it fun what kind of quotes stick in people's heads from their favorite books XD Would probably have mostly Harry Potter quotes, but oh well. Obviously not expecting you to consider this, I just thought that's a video I'd love to watch and I'm not a UA-camr so won't make one XD
Elina Mauno I’m showing my age but there was an American TV show called Dallas that did this with one of the main characters. He went thru all this drama and was murdered. Then at the end of the season, his wife wakes up and he’s in the shower. She dreamed the whole thing! I was so irritated by it, I never watched another episode. I hate that type of thing.
It's more of a tv/movie trope. But it's still gets on my nerve almost every time. I rarely see it done well.
@@kazghost yeah I've seen it in shows, but when it's done right it can be awesome ❤
@@lindaschwab8873 I've heard of that show - have to admit, not old enough to have watched it :'D But that would've pissed me off so hard too
@@kazghost Yeah, I think that must be it... I can remember seeing some tv episodes with that sort of thing, and it's easier to do that I suppose than write like a 5 book series with over a 1000 pages and be like "well, it didn't actually happen"
Mock bravado is the best. Nicely written ad spot!
The Mistborn Era 2 books are all a big “300 years later”.
And technically it’s written from the viewpoint of outsiders living with the consequences of the hero’s actions.
Some advice I once got was that " the one thing that readers will remember is the ending". That was some of the best advice I've received for writing.
The Renegades trilogy by Marissa Meyer has that! The final chapter is told from the perspective of someone who isn’t the main character. It was definitely an interesting choice!
One of the most satisfying endings I've ever read was the ending to The Bartimaeus Trilogy! It felt earned and bittersweet and on a reread there was totally foreshadowing for it.
I'm an inspiring author and I love these videos. Let's me know that people won't like my book and others will kill for it.
No apostrophe in: "Lets". I assume that autoincorrect (sic) did that to you.
@@markhoulsby359 They also said 'inspiring' not 'aspiring'
@@rubyj9347 True, and they could have meant that, sincerely, regardless of whether or not it's accurate. Which is why I let it go.
You may well be correct, however, in which case...good catch.
Writing snippets that come into importance later are also REALLY good for keeping track of plot threads -as a writer.
I honestly dislike it when an author only kills irrelevant characters more than if they don’t kill anybody.
my main problem with Stormlight at the moment is nobody with any relevance to the plot dies unless it’s a way to remove an obstacle for our heroes and even then there are no consequences for their death.
What i hate the most is when everything ends in a big plot twist that wasn't foreshadowed at all and doesn't make any sense. Makes me hate the whole thing, no matter how much I liked it before the end.
"Dont be afraid to kill your characters" I dont get why some authors are afraid of that, I love killing my characters 🤣 actually one of the last ideas I had for my book was "I ended loving this character more that I expected... I'll kill him in the second book"
Also, the dream/time travel thing makes me SO MAD. It's the reason why I dont like seasons 5 to 10 of doctor who, everything is fixed in the end because time travel and... no, just no
Time travel is just one of those concepts that's so hard to execute properly. It's almost impossible to not leave options for even more time travel, to not have a story that has more plot holes than plot to begin with, to the point that the choices with using the time machine feels forced, out of character, just leaving a feeling of "the writer wanted this so that's how it happened". It's kind of like soft magic, but even more dangerous for problem solving.
@Blackbriar95 It's simple, actually. The more powerful a plot device is, the less limitations it has, the more struggle it takes out of the story. Characters don't need to work as hard, or if they had, their efforts are rendered meaningless, because a deus ex machina like mechanism just magically solved the problem.
It's the same thing with soft magics. They're awesome for creating a sense of wonder, for building a world, and for _creating_ conflicts, but if you solve problems with "and then the wise old wizard cast a spell that erased evil from everyone" it's just horribly unsatisfying and is barely a story. With magic, it's quite clear that even if it's soft magic, the better stories still establish rules for one or very few specific usages of the magic, rules that aren't deus ex machina themselves, and then use those, and nothing else, creatively to solve conflict.
The problem with time travel is it's just incredibly hard to put proper limitations on it. It's inherently soft magic, but it's actually worse than most soft magics, in that if you try to establish those limited uses that can resolve conflict (in a satisfying way) you start running into problems really soon. I'm not saying it's impossible to do well, just that it takes a lot of skill, a lot of effort, and it's generally just replaced with handwavium instead.
@Blackbriar95 Yes it is, but if they didn't earn it, it's not really a good romance novel. Referring to "that time travel thing", it's like if you wrote a romance novel where one of the characters betrays the other repeatedly, then they fight, they part, mad at each other, and the next day just wake up and they're together again. Like, at that point, what did their struggles even matter? In this case, it's character choices that erase the consequences, not time traveling space magic, but the effect is the same. Consequences don't end up mattering, and you just told the reader what you read was all pointless because they're together and in love again. Even if it's a romance novel, it just doesn't work.
This works the same for time travel. It's not about what the setting of the story is, what devices it uses, it's about how it uses them. But time manipulation, especially backwards time travel is a lot harder to use than most plot devices. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, most writers just end up using it poorly.
That's not to say it's impossible, Groundhog Day does time travel extremely well for example. Yes, it's a very limited kind, but that's exactly why it works, why it can become a device that the main character ends up actually utilizing. It creates conflict, but it also solves it, and you walk away feeling the character has earned the solution.
As for Doctor Who, can't speak for it, haven't seen it yet. But just because it's topic is time travel doesn't mean its use of time travel must be satisfying and well-written. It doesn't have to be wrong either, as with many other aspects, it depends on the writing.
If you wanna watch time travel done well you need to watch Dark on netflix
Merphy, mate - more of these writing structure analysis for readers and authors.
You do very good analysis like this. Very practical stuff. This is how I found you in the first place. Something on writing styles I think.
Cassandra Clare and Sarah J Maas and their incessant need to couple up characters at the end of their series is just...ugh I can't.
I have enjoyed Cassandra Clare's later books and some characters didn't get coupled up in the Dark Artifices and that's only because it's set up for them to get together in the next series .
SJM forces characters to get together to the point where the relationships feel forced because the characters have no real chemistry.
Not only are SJM’s ships forced, they’re also toxic.
I'm curious if Jace is the most hated character male character in the mortal instruments.
What about Sarah J Mass? Did she make incessant characters and forced romances
Ali Omar
She forces just about every character into a relationship whether they have chemistry or not, and they’re also almost all ‘soulmates’ 😂
Ali Omar she also built up the best friend just to kill her with very little consequences. Hehehe!
@@amandaofhouserobinson6707 oh my God how much I hated that. Nehemia's death had basically no consequences. Such Celaena being a bitch and whiny from time to time
LOTR does such a good job of bittersweet ending... how even though it was a 'happy ending' and everything was alright in the end, but somehow the journey changed something inside everybody...both the characters and the readers... there was something that we just couldnt return to.
Recently found your channel and I have to say you've quickly become one of my favorite Booktubers. I've been in what feels like a years-long reading slump but when watching your videos and seeing how passionate you are about the good and the bad things you've read makes me feel the old excitement for reading I used to feel before. I think you're doing amazing work and look forward to watching more from you!
Thank you so much! I hope you love what you pick up!
The time jump epilogue I loved was The hunger games one. It just satisfied me. And I find it interesting that Katniss has children after all. And I think it’s a very well written epilogue, the last line just tied it perfectly for me.
I love these "Dear authors" video. So fun and makes for great conversation.
That skill share thing.. Lol 😄
I read books and other stuff (fanfics, manga...), I delay it too much...i start reading and i stop and i continue after a longer time.
I love your channel, im new here, recently started watching you.
The reason i did is because im working on my manga and im watching youtube vids talking about stuff like this about storied whats good whats not, im trying to gather information to make it a good story and good characters and everything and this is sooo much help... You're awsome
Tysm 😭🥺
Dear authors on genre is my suggestion for the future. I think that could be really cool and informative- I am an aspiring writer, so.
You're so enthusiastic and make so much sense. I like people who get so enthusiastic about books.
watching some of these "Dear Authors..." leaves me anticipating even more to you reading my story. I have an epilogue in my book after the book has "wrapped up", but it leaves shock to the reader and it leads into setting up book 2
Thank you for showing me how to build a TBR spreadsheet. Never thought about that. Just getting my 2022 TBR spreadsheet built to see what I am going to read for next year. However, I do have a few books that I am starting before then so yeah. Kind of already starting my 2022 list.
I want my ending to make sense for that particular book, the tone, the characters, and a tiny bit the genre expectations (turned on its head).
Okay, I know that I am super late on these but mam, thank you. Please keep these up, thank you
I think this is the earliest I've been for one of your videos! Really liking this Dear Authors series :)
Super agreed about stories being all squeaky clean and only having minimal drama that doesn't really matter in the first place.
The happiest endings are the ones that are earned. It's a Wonderful Life is one of the best feel-good stories, and it literally starts with a guy about to jump off a bridge and kill himself.
I love it when things turn out okay (not perfect) in the end after a bunch of really serious struggling.
Hey the Merph! Favorite ending is what I call "The Shakespeare," there is a lot of blood and the hero has to die so everyone else can live.
Kevin K. So...Avengers Endgame?
doesn’t everyone die in shakespeare anyway tho?
@@nont18411 You’ve watched Endgame? Can we agree their version of time travel is the best version that exists?
Now subbed obviously. Other people are good, but your mood and energy bring so much and makes me really happy.
"When the author puts everyone in a relationship just for the sake of it."
Like c'mon people, this isn't the breakfast club, we didn't just spend our Saturday in detention just for everyone to fall in love 😞
I just want to say: I love how you open sponsored videos! You don't spend 6 minutes on the ad, you put it later in the video, with a head's up at the beginning. I love it.
I feel like I'm alone in that I love sad and dreary endings.
I'm gonna join your sad and dreary ending corner. We can cry together.
On the "Different Perspective at the End" point -- The Expanse series tends to use stand-alone POVs for the prologue and epilogue. Characters you only see at the start or end. It's very nice.
His dark materials has the most bittersweet ending. Love those books!
Negative consequences are satisfying when they resonate with the way we believe the world actually works. There's a lot of escapist fiction out there, where everything turns out great in the end (Disney). I think what you're saying is that more realistic endings, as long as they are also meaningful, constant with the tone of the book, can be really refreshing--and strike an emotional chord.