You have to have a certain kind of insecurity to get angry over other people not meeting your standard of masculinity. I enjoy cars and meat and shooting as much as anyone you will find, but i dont harass vegans or threaten to harm anyone who thinks we need more strict gun laws.
"If you think the gospel is soft then why would you think God would slaughter his son?" As a father, I don't think killing my child is a sign of Christian Masculinity, that would make me a murderous psychopath that would land me in jail.
On top of the fact that not even in the written myths themselves does El Yahweh "slaughter his own son." I think he is getting confused with the myth that Abraham was just as willing to kill his own son for El Yahweh as the El-polytheists around him were willing to sacrifice their children (in various ways) for their favored "personal god" supposedly ruling in Heaven under authority from El and his most beloved son, Baal/Lord.
Then proceeds to say, “get ready for God to slaughter u next, if u disagree with this statement!” Great image you’ve painted of the church pastor authoritarianism, but plz stop talking now
@@JoeySehn That man is the phrase "Why the reformation was a mistake" condensed into a single human. Not that the catholic and orthodox churches haven't done or do some f*cked up shit, but at least they aren't usually this deranged and bloodthirsty (at least outside of america. Somehow every religion inside the US goes batshit insane).
@@letsomethingshine This video isn't about Judaism or whatever strain of Gnosticism, it's about Christianity. The central idea of Christianity is that god sent his son to earth in order to have him crucified and killed as a sacrifice for human "sin".
@@keithklassen5320 A lot of Christianity also believes in a triune god, so God sent his only (begotten) son, himself, down. Simultaneously filicide, patricide, and suicide. Hey, another 3! How neat!
"If telling people NOT to bully and sexually harass people is taken as an attack on YOU, maybe you need to ask YOURSELF some questions..." THANK YOU! Sensible people have been saying this for YEARS!
Are you really that damn ignorant of the amount of inoculous things labeled as toxic. Most people are fine with not bullying and assaulting, we're just fed up with toxicity being thrown at everything we do. It's so damn blood frustrating hearing idiots like this ignoring all this and thinking we all few for some right wing conspiracy theory. We listened to the feminists and their endless list of what's toxic and realised they're full of feces. It's near impossible to do a steel man of this term as during research I just find more absurd ideas. Anyone denying this either is just completely stupid or lying. PS. Tucker Carlson is a PoS.
@yungnuggets5911 Glad someone finally gets it. Probably would have much less resistance if it started out as a well defend term and wasn't self straw-manned by pop feminists. That's if it even started out as a good definition, but concept creep is a real thing.
Jesus: *helps the poor and sick* *invites women into theological conversations* *weeps when his best friend dies* *preaches about love and turning the other cheek* Evangelicals: eAt mEaT yOu KiLleD wItH yOuR bArE hAnDs beCaUsE iT’s mAnLy!
@@darkstarr984 Early Christians believed you could "catch idolatry" from eating certain meat (meat sold in marketplaces was blessed by Hellenistic priests) and it is an issue that New Testament authors argue about (St Paul doesn't see it as that important as issue, whereas the author of Revelation of St John considers it a serious issue and depicts Christ as threatening to "pour out his wrath" on those who eat "meat sacrificed to idols"). So there actually is an early Christian tradition of avoided meat altogether in one's diet "to be on the safe side" of the "idolatry" issue.
Paul one of his apostles also advocated for his fellow female apostles and claimed that sex and marriage are not the ultimate form of worship for the lord. Like say what you want but Paul was just a chad that scripts literally added onto his writings to solidify their claims and to defang some of his beliefs. Like Paul would be more disappointed in the churches of today
I mean it's a metaphorical circle jerk so, yeah. Or literal. Considering how often the ultra religious anti gay right end up caught with same sex lovers speaks volumes. They love the masculinity so much they need it in them any way they can get it.
Hey hey! I'm a fellow asexual fundie defector. Asexuality made abstinence very easy for me while I was a Christian for obvious reasons, but on the flipside I think being a fundie complicated my ability to recognize my own asexuality. It takes a long time to understand yourself better after leaving a dogmatic structure, and the process of figuring yourself out never stops. I wish you comfort and wellness.
@@jessmstephens Being ace & aro definitely made absences easy 😂 it got awkward when people would say that god has a husband planed for me and that I was destined for marriage
Them saying that men aren't going to church because church is too feminine, when so many churches still exclude women from active roles other than childcare, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
"If you think the gospel is soft, just wait until he comes" "And then when he comes, maybe you'll be the one who he slaughters with his tongue" They cant be serious they have to know what they're saying
I was genuinely confused at the part where he talked about having a gun surgically grafted onto his wrists so he could kill that bear with his BARE HANDS
When I was a kid, I received a red and pink shirt for Christmas. It looked nice, but because of toxic masculinity, I was afraid I'd look girly if I wore it, so I didn't.
I live in a town of 5000 in Kentucky, no one locks their doors, everyone knows each other, super safe. It always makes me laugh when I see people open carry around town. They think it makes them look tough, when in reality it makes them look scared.
God will protect you from the virus and you don't need to be reasonable with any precautions, but gotta carry that damn high capacity, high caliber semiautomatic rifle just in case you need it.
Basic dialectic at work here: _Either ALL masculinity is toxic or NONE is._ Now where did that come from? Was the Gillette Co. ever saying so or implying it in their campaign? Was anybody, except maybe some nth-gen rad-fems? Not really!! But if you want to get people onboard with the idea that NO masculinity is toxic, you HAVE to strawman the issue. You have to say "these idiot libs are claiming ALL masculinity is toxic."
I recommend a manga named Vinland Saga. It's about a Viking man named Thorfinn who abandons the Vikings' idea of manhood after living a life of war as a teenager to become a true warrior. He becomes a kind, mature man who solves his problems peacefully and refuses to use violence. He challenges his time's cultural norms to become a less violent person even if he is ridiculed or persecuted. There is a running joke where the other Vikings wonder if Thorfinn is a Christian, but his conversion is never confirmed (maybe because it's not important). These "Chrisitan men" do not know what it means to be a mature man. These men are ignorant of what it means to be strong or an adult. A fictional, pagan character is a better man, person, and Christian than them! They should rethink their idea of manhood!
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 are you being sarcastic? I haven’t gotten to the parts where they mention the church in both mangas. But I’ve heard some stuff. Lol.
I think perhaps it's because of the fundamentalist male-protector narrative- it's okay for men to be toxically masculine because it's their job to take risks on behalf of women. Of course, a dynamic like that doesn't help anyone, but it's hard to critique a system you think was created by God
Trying to be conventionally "masculine", trying to solve all my problems alone and not talk about my anxiety led me to make the worst mistakes of my life and made me very unhappy. It's not like I'm totally purged of those toxic behaviors, but when I opened up to my family about my fears and my shortcomings I removed a great deal of stress and shame from my life.
I'm a Cali bodybuilder. I built up my body because I got picked on a lot first - but then I found that I deeply enjoyed sculpting myself. Dressing in an incredibly flattering way - challenging how society says men should dress. The expectation is women are sex objects, men pursue them. So I explicitly dress to make it unavoidable that I'm putting on a show for ANYBODY who wants to look.
Excuse the Randomness but here you go, have some warm Recommendations, cause the Learning never Ends! (Thats the entire reason, yes) -Veritasium. -Professor Dave Explains. -It’s ok to be smart. -Oversimplified (for History) -Michio Kaku. -Multiple channel with the word Engineering in it. -Cynical Reviews. -The Best for Last: Hbomberguy!
The insane lack of self-awareness of how inherently sexist their language is always gets me too. It creates the dichotomy that what is manly is "good" so the opposite of that (femininity according to them) is "bad". Telling men they have to do performative acts in order to keep from seeming feminine (because god forbid you display any feminine characteristics, that would be horrible) reeks of sexism. And the saddest part is that this sort of thinking hurts both men and women alike.
According to them, masculinity is good and godly when performed by men and men only, and femininity is good and godly when performed by women. But only their specific version of traditional masculinity and femininity, which is just completely insane
There's also a lack of contextual understanding when they refuse to consider the cultures from which their Biblical teachings arose. I hear lots of Christian talk about how, "women aren't inferior, their role is just different from men." But if you look at Biblical history and most of Western history, women's roles were different BECAUSE they were seen as inferior to men. Femininity in a man is seen as personally degrading, while masculinity in a women is frowned upon because that causes her to step UP and out of her role rather than being submissive. (I imagine this is historically true in Eastern and other cultures as well, but I simply don't have the knowledge to speak to that.)
I wonder sometimes how much WW2 is still influencing us. There's been a lot of studies of generational trauma, the idea that soldiers went to war, got traumatized, and brought that trauma home that created inter-generational abuse. WW2 is the largest study of such things, and psychologists are still parsing out how it affected us socially and psychologically. Thinking about just the cultural narrative of WW2, that the US were heroes, the 40s and 50s were a time of huge financial growth, and the nuclear family was a thing for just a snapshot of history: I really think that informs our "masculine" definition. That you are a warrior and a hero, and a cheerful dad who leads, and you never, ever talk about the things you saw in war, no matter how much those demons are messing you up inside. You drink, you beat your wife and kids, you do anything except admit you might like pink or cried after killing someone in battle. The ideal soldier is the ideal man, and an ideal soldier is never weak, because that lets the enemy win. I just wonder how different definitions of masculinity before that were maybe not so fucking cruel and rigid, because women have been welcome in war and homosexuality is a huge part of warrior cultures throughout history. We follow an impossible standard for our work hours, for motherhood, even for patriotism, so it tracks we'd have an impossible standard for masculinity as well.
This especially jumps out at me when they talk about leadership. If masculine men are the only thing maintaining peace, stability, and sanity (7:07), what does that say about women? Would we steer society into insanity if given leadership roles? The implications are vile.
Here's a thing: I live with my parents. The immediate reaction to that statement is often to laugh at me since that statement implies I'm a manchild, someone who never grew up, an inferior male. However, I live with my parents since, due to various factors, they can't afford to keep the house we have without me here: They're elderly, in poor health, and the money they have coming in from pension isn't enough to pay bills and keep food on the table in this economy. With context, most people change their tune immediately, saying that yeah, I'm doing a good thing and it would be wrong for me to be doing anything else. However, because of the way our society is geared, the immediate, knee-jerk assumption is always "This guy is an inferior male who lives with his parents because can't make it on his own", rather than "This guy is looking after the people in his life who can no longer make it on their own, and that is something to be respected". Unfortunately, in American society, and especially on the evangelical and conservative side of things, they often don't care about context, just the appearances. They often judge on what they think they see and don't even bother to look for a reason why things are the way they are, instead just making snap judgments based on their assumptions and prejudices.
I also live with parents but mostly because in Mexican society (which is pretty chauvinistic in other ways) it’s not frowned upon to do so as traditionally you didn’t leave the nest until you got married (I’m 26 but I have friends who are older who still do that) and the economy. But ever since moving up north I can’t help but feel a bit inadequate because of it, it didn’t occur to me it could be because of what you mentioned in addition to the leftovers of the internalized racism I had for some years.
The funniest (stupidest?) thing to me about that part of the video, when they talk about how godly men move out of the house quick, is how so many world cultures completely oppose that idea. Hell, even 100yrs ago people were way more likely to live with not just their parents but their entire *family*, people lived in the same towns for generations too. In many other cultures collectivism is more valued, and rather than encouraging men to strike out on their own and work only for themselves, it is expected that everyone contributes to their family, and to their community. Obviously generalizing here. But yeah its so ludacris to believe that American Evangelical masculinity is the only masculinity.
I definitely feel ya man. I too am still living in the same house as my dad, but it's mostly because he's currently my boss (he's been running a towing company consisting of just himself with a truck for 20 or so years, and I've joined in the last 3. Gonna become 50/50 partners at some point), it's a job that I love seeing as how I get to help people out, and the house just coincidentally has enough parking for the necessary vehicles, so I'm not sticking around because of weakness like some might assume, but it's because it's objectively better and more convenient for both of us to have me continuing to reside here (Of course, I do kinda want to move across the street eventually, but I've always lived a single life, so I don't mind the close proximity one bit).
This reminds me of the time I told my dad about a guy who was being very creepy to me and would not take no for an answer, and I asked why it is that he can't accept my answer. He said the following: "its good that he won't take no for an answer and walk away with his tail between his legs saying 'oh I'm sorry I upset a girl I should leave her alone' and instead he drives head on. We need more men like that." And that scares the shit out of me. You know what's even scarier? He justifies men objectifying women because its "manly." If he knew that my ex boyfriend had, while we were dating, cried on my shoulder because he was scared of losing me and was so happy that I comforted him, saying I love him; or that he sees me as a person and will not sexualize me--he'd say that he isn't a real man. Yes, he is. AND, he's a good person (no I don't have hard feelings against him, even if I did at first). Its such a toxic mindset, it hurts men and women.
Huh... That's not just sad, it's kinda WEIRD. I've heard so many stories and stereotypes about fathers being violently protective of their daughters' well-being. So the idea that he goes a complete 180 from that fries my brain.
I'm a woman who just tends to gravitate to masculine activities and spaces because I think they're more fun. I never noticed anything odd because everyone treated me like I was one of the guys. It always upsets me whenever I hear about how some women are treated in these spaces because I know that people can do better.
Gotta love how innately homoerotic masculinity is: “if you think the gospel is ‘soft’ just wait ‘til he ‘comes’ and when he ‘comes’ maybe you’ll be the one he slaughters with his tongue.” Do most men just don’t recognize that admiring masculine traits and the vitality and bodies of men is pretty...gay? Don’t get me wrong, I’m bisexual myself, so things like this make me giggle more often than not.
As someone who's not a dude, my perspective is limited. All I will say is that in the case of us girls and women, I think every individual gets to decide what "femininity" is, so I don't see why it shouldn't be the same with men and masculinity. It's strange to me how we can live in a mostly patriarchal society but then have men emotionally suffer this much just because they don't like hunting and sports or some shit idk. Like I said, limited perspective, sorry if I came off as insensitive.
It totally should be. Positive masculinity definitely involves expressing yourself as you see fit and accepting all sorts of variations through an honest appreciation of the diversity of others' experiences. These 'men's men' and their more toxic forms masculinity just come from a place of fear. They mistake hardness for true strength so instead of bending with the winds of change they stand rigid and inevitably break. This is how patriarchy harms men.
I've made my own definition of masculinity, so I'm right there with you. I've come to accept that it'll cause a lot of people to look at me funny but if I can feel still feel like a man while embracing more traditionally "feminine" ideals, perhaps this is something they should look into. Of course, these people try to seem so macho that it winds up coming off like they're repressing more than just traditionally "feminine" aspects, if you get my drift.
Masculinity is in part defined by the individual, but in a more important sense, is defined by the society one lives in. Same with femininity. When considering a group of strangers, or society as a whole, every person has their own unique concepts of masculinity. But when you extrapolate those individual perceptions out to an entire society, you get that society's idea of masculinity, and this masculinity is how you will normally be judged as masculine or not, regardless of your own idea of masculinity. This societal perception is what pushes people to act like toxic douchebags. Regardless of what they might value, if they want to be seen as masculine by their peers, they will act how society tells them to. People's individual ideas of masculinity are important, but I think they are important only because that's the only thing we can affect. We can change an individual's idea of masculinity, and in doing so mold a society's view on masculinity. I guess it's a kind of positive feedback loop.
As for the, why is masculinity more defined, I think that given society was historically dominated by men, because sexism, what men/women "are" were hammered out. Then the whole feminist revolutions happened and femininity has become more of an amorphous blob of a definition in most circles. No such revolution has occurred for masculinity (to my knowledge) so it is more well defined, and thus, more limiting.
@@Crapcarp555 bullshit. I‘m a feminist and there’s quite a nice amount of men that I personally know who are masculine and feel very well with being a man but still are not at all toxic! Most of them even do martial arts, some are even quite athletic and very masculine in their outward expression, but they all have critical thinking skills, empathy, an inclination to self-reflexion and the desire not to make their environment feel bad deliberately! It’s possible! It just takes a little active effort of not being an asshole!
Best real man comment I've heard: Father: what doughnut do you want? Son: I want a strawberry tart. Father: men don't eat strawberry tarts. Pick a doughnut. (And then I wondered which doughnuts were the correct manly ones.)
_Men_ do Not eat strawberry tarts _You_ DO eat strawberry tarts If I'm following the logic of the joke correctly wouldn't those two statements indicate that you could be literally anything EXCEPT for a man? Not trying to make any kind of statement I just want to understand if I'm not getting something or if I got the intent but it just got typed out wrong.
Exactly !!! However, I do want to insert grunting noises here as the word "manly" somehow triggers a deep amydyla reaction...so I have to admit there is some genetics involved. Others behaviours may vary.
"If you think the Gospel is soft, wait til he comes, and then when he comes maybe you'll be the one that he slaughters with his tongue" taken out of context is undoubtedly one of the gayest things I have ever heard. And I'm gay, so that's a backhanded compliment.
How is the biblical version of "Tongue" suppose to be thought of? Speach? "Rightous speech?" I don't understand that, but if it's taken literally that god comes to get you.. than literally his tongue is involved? God eats ass?
@@PartnershipsForYou Yes, but the amount of meat available is always going to match the amount of demand for it, barring some kind of massive disruption to the industry. There isn't more meat for the rest of us because of the existence of vegetarians, there's virtually infinite meat to begin with because we've industrialized farming so much. In fact a rise in vegetarianism would have the contrary effect and would result in less meat for meat eaters as the overall demand would go down.
Congrats on accepting your sexuality! I hate the trope that men don't have feelings. Men are human. Humans have emotions. If the emotions aren't expressed in a healthy way, it can lead to dire consequences. Drinking, drug use, abusing other people, or worse, murdering people. I wonder if school shootings are connected to toxic masculinity...
Not so many years ago tho, we went thru a wierd transitional phase. If men focused on feelings, other men still thought it was because they were "gay" (meaning any kind of sexual nonconformity). But then they'd say, "it's ok to be gay." OK, great. But if you're not "gay," don't go around bringing up feelings!!
@@RatPfink66 yeah, it’s completely oxymoronic and shows the cognitive dissonance people have even though they think they’re being a better person. People can’t just bottle up their emotions just because it “makes other people uncomfortable.” They can screw off if they don’t care about the well-being of their loved ones. Or they need some hard introspection and even therapy.
Throughout history it was always the men who were the emotional ones: the poets, the musicians, the dreamers, the obsessed, the ones who would throw themselves off a cliff for love. But somewhere along the line the passionate man was replaced by the stoic man, and strength transformed from being able to stick out against the grain to being able to endure without complaining.
@@incomingincoming1133 that really sucks though. Men are also people. They have feelings and the right to express them, as long as It doesn’t cause harm or threaten people that don’t deserve it. I see a lot of men nowadays taking out their anger with so much danger attached to it. They need help to process their emotions in a healthy way. It’s really sad, cause at the end of the day, they’re hurting themselves in the long run by alienating their loved ones and will lose their individuality to a group with shared ideals. That can be simultaneously painful and lonely to deal with. Great, you are now surrounded with people that are as angry as you are. But who will tell you they love you for you when the day ends?
The trans shooter is an exception. He was just an abused person who waged war against his Christian abusers. I'm surprised it's taken the LGBT community this long to start waging a war on Christianity after everything that's happened under Christian rule
This whole man-up attitude reminds me so much of my elementary coach. He was a loud guy, he seemed to hate any perceived “weakness.” I specifically remember him calling the people who died durning the Ebola outbreak weak. He had this thing in class, to test the boys, he would make the boys go against the girls, and if the boys lost he would berate them for loosing and would do this all the time.
word....the point of religion is enlightenment, and non of that is happening by attempting to play to the base elements of the male ego...I could see through this at 10 because of the good people who raised me, at 46 its just a joke
What is there to HATE about weakness? (Never ask these people. They DON'T like their beliefs being interrogated. Still less their hangups.) We think its catching, somehow, like a pandemic. We act strong to keep the feeling away. But we're still AFRAID of it. Not for society's sake - as we often pretend - but for our ego's sake.
I’ve heard that some manly men don’t like going to church because they don’t like sitting there while some preacher tells them what to do. 🤷🏾♀️One could argue that doing so is antithetical to leadership and independent thought and action.
I can't think of anything more exhausting than having to coddle the insecurity that drives this need to feel especially manly or especially feminine. The great irony is how much more self-assured people come across when they don't seem preoccupied with fitting arbitrary external markers of whatever gender roles. Once I was on a date with a guy and saw a Tinker Bell umbrella in his car. I asked if it was his little sister's, and he was like, "No, my friend and I were in a restaurant when it started raining, and the server gave us that from lost and found. I figured I might as well use it." I remember that response made me instantly relax around him because I didn't have to worry about offending any ridiculous sensibilities around masculinity. Like, the most confident person you can think of would probably start seeming infinitely less confident if he or she suddenly became visibly preoccupied with seeming confident. What do pundits and other people giving lectures on traditional gender roles think they're projecting to the rest of the world by being such try-hards about it?
There was a video I saw recently that made me sad. It was one of those man o sphere youtube guys. He was saying how he recently got in to baking, and then had to spend a bunch of time explaining how baking is actually really manly and science like. It made me sad how insecure he (and others) are of their sexuallity that he had to justify enjoying baking. Like if baking isn't manly he can't enjoy it or he's no longer a man or something.
Are they implying that it’s not manly to take care of yourself and feed yourself? There’s this weird thing out there that if you mean a very professional pastry chef that’s seen as a man’s job but if a woman were to get into that profession it’s much harder? The world is weird man.
As a heterosexual man, raised in the mormon church, who left at 15, shoots guns, fishes, owns many tools including an axe, built a cabin with my friends for fun, and is currently helping rebuild an old truck for fun, I am no more of a man than anyone else. While I have these things about me that are traditionally masculine, I also cry during movies, prefer flavored beer to regular beer, I get emotional and I'm not afraid to share that shit either. Toxic masculinity is getting told that my preferred beer flavor (Mike's Hard Mango) makes me less of a man. That crying makes me less of a man. That I still live with my dad makes me lazy, though I work 40 hours a week on top of all that other shit I do. I guess my point is that the only form of masculinity I care for is the man who is comfortable with who he is and doesn't feel insecure about how "manly" he is. Also, fuck no he didn't kill three black bears with his bare hands. Lyin ass.
You have conservative credit, tho, if those guys knew your life story. Some of us don't have much. I consume steak and booze, am aroused by hot babes, change bulbs, open jars and swat flies, own a bunch of black t shirts and typically wear a 7-10 day beard. But the rest of me doesn't bear scrutiny. I'm 56, never married, underemployed and uncompetitive, I talk baby talk to cats, and live with elderly parents (yeah, I take care of them, but I also have ASD/NVLD so it's really a 2 way street). I could go on, but I'll spare you.
I’m not really against hunting, but the way he brags about “I LOVE shooting and killing as many animals as I can!” is kind of psychotic. I kind of hope he’s playing that up, because it sounds like some real sicko behavior.
"The worst thing you can be in this country is white straight and Christian." Nope. Nope I'm done. Do you have room for me in Canada cause I officially give up on this country. The fact that I live in Texas and they just passed the heartbeat bill only makes it worse.
Nah they prefer the parts where he assaults people in the temple. Tells people to love him and hate their families and other similar verses. Also probably the part where he curses a tree for not bearing fruit out of season.
It's nice that you're rebranding Jesus to have better qualities, I guess. All great attributes aside, he was sent to earth to tell people that his father will send you to hell forever if you don't believe in him. I can do without your Jesus. Men have so much more to look to than the Bible for deprogramming the toxic nonsense we were taught.
Asexuals represent! I’ve just recently started being nice to myself about my lifelong dislike/disdain of sex. I’m an elder Gen X, n thank you to the awesome younger generations creating space where we all feel safe n warmly accepted. Love, family ❤️
My relationship with masculinity is complicated but once I’ve gotten away from christian and toxic expectations, it became easier to be me I love being outdoors, I like field work to a certain extent but I don’t like guns, cars and I’m not really into chasing ladies even tho I’m bi Growing up I was shamed because I loved all kinds of animals but getting away from that toxic mindset help me reconnect with that aspect of my life
One of my favorite things about coming out of the closet was that I could drop every single bit of toxic masculinity. I work on my own cars and I like drinking whisky, but I'm also a fancy boy who isn't afraid of wearing a little bit of makeup and ugly crying at the end of FFIX. They aren't mutually exclusive as long as you have nothing to prove to anyone.
When my first son was born I got slapped with a scary thought. I don't know how to be a man, so how will I teach him? That fear lead me to dive deeper and deeper into the church because they promised me that they could teach me how to be a man. I spent countless hours in men's conferences like promise keepers, men's fraternity, every man's battle and reading the books. Hell I even taught the conferences. They never taught me anything! They just tried to make a mold and told me to make myself fit into it. It's been two years since leaving the church and I am starting to feel a peace that there is no mold. That there is no model that I have to look like. That if I don't want to hunt because the idea of killing an animal breaks my heart, that's ok. I just wish I had found this out sooner.
Yes! I’m a trans viewer and your channel has helped me so much with working through my religious past in ways that I never imagined I had to and it makes me happy to have you as well!
So many christians indiscriminately discriminate the LGBT community without realizing that asexual, aromantic and demisexual people are also a part of it and represent values christians consider good.
Listened to this video in the background while putting on my makeup this morning. Good video! I'm so glad words like asexual are available now to help us get our minds around the idea. I never heard of it until maybe ten years ago, and I grew up long before that. I'm sorry to say it's something I never understood until I started hearing the term. But then hearing the term demisexual also helped me understand myself - since I'm both bi and demi. I used to think something was wrong with me. But I'm getting past that, slowly. Leaving Catholicism definitely helped. You're doing great work - keep it up!
"You drop some responsibility on a man and he'll straighten himself out." Oh ho, I cannot even begin to tell you how this didn't work for my white, cishet, Baby Boomer Dad who was also narcissistic and an alcoholic. If it was such a perk to be spiritual leaders, you'd think more men would show up at Church. But as I said recently to a friend in regard to an ex-friend who was also Mormon: "I cannot think of a worse thing to tell a white cishet guy than 'You are automatically always right by default.'"
Thank you for creating this video. For years, even as I was still apart of the Evangelical community, I saw the rampant toxic masculinity that was devouring the church. I saw it do so much harm to so many men and subsequently women and families (including my own family). I’ve never seen this discussed before so thank you for bringing it to light and making me feel validated in my experiences. You are doing good work and helping a lot of people with this channel.
I’ve worked as a cart pusher at Walmart for almost a year and a half now, which I guess is (in my very small conservative Christian hometown) seen as man’s job alone. I identify as non binary and sometimes I’ll wear feminine clothing or dye my hair pink, that kinda stuff. I’m also not exactly the strongest either, I’m 5’4 and only weighing about 120lbs. I get some nasty comments out there from people who wear crosses on their shirts, or bible verses written on their hats. I’ve been told shit like “man up pussy” or “they’ll just hire anyone here, won’t they?” It hurts to hear, but I have friends working there who fully support me. If anything, they’re really just complimenting me by recognizing my feminine side and pointing it out. Thank you for noticing, that’s exactly the vibe I was going for today. Edit: I think my absolute favorite one was when a guy called me a pussy in the men’s room for washing my hands before returning to work (in the middle of a pandemic might I add)
bro, not the hand washing being seen as weak. i don't want shit particles on my hands, and i don't like the idea of touching food with weird little eggs or germs on my hands. that's how you make it into a chubbyemu video... or just become a statistic
About that clip at around 9:50 As a guy who owns several guns. When I see guns and religion mixed or guns and toxic masculinity or all three in this case mixed I get uncomfortable. Because you're putting together some ideas that can encourage violence with the capability to do so
I'm right there with you. Living in the bible belt of a rural part of my state, I see this conflation regularly. I believe it to be a fundamental building block of the growing threat of Christian Nationalism.
I’m a huge gun nut who does gunsmithing as a side gig, especially on stuff like AR-15s and AKs. I probably could make a lot more money with it if I went back to my hometown and serviced the folks there, but it’s so rife with that sort of toxic evangelical/toxic masculinity BS that I get queasy just thinking about it. I’ve found a niche instead teaching and doing repair/modification work for racial minorities and LGBT folks who are getting into guns but without all that conservative baggage. It’s not always perfect, but it’s soooo much less toxic and I tend to see eye-to-eye with them a lot more on things.
@@AscrodGreytagg bases af. Ive managed to join some more progressive and minority and lgbt friendly gun spaces. If you're on Facebook check out the Gun People who hate Gun People community for that kind of thing
@@dirtydish6642 yeah guns are just a prop and symbol of identity to these guys but unlike wearing a holy symbol or a silly hat you can and are in some ways encouraged to do a lot of harm
I was just talking about this recently. At my fundamentalist evangelical baptist church, so many of the sermons for men could be whittled down to “don’t be a sissy boy”
Someone once questioned my masculinity because I ordered a Red Bull cocktail. Never mind the fact that it was a VERY strong drink, the fact that it was fruity was enough for this guy to call me a beta male.
you would be surprised, or actually you probably wouldn't, by the totally free interpretation of "what's a girly drink." if they're having gin martinis, it's vodka (especially in a martini, jeeez, why not whip up a cosmo while you're at it?). with whiskey drinkers, it's gin, or anything in your whiskey but water, soda, rocks. with beer guys it's a real muddle...just get what the guy next to you gets.
Well, technically, the actual title for the Pope is Supreme Pontiff, which doesn't exactly have male/female barriers, so technically, a woman can be Pope.
@@ghuttsmckenzie4269 You mean the UK Queen? God no that’d be a massive constitutional crisis for both parties because she’s the head of the CofE, and the head of the CofE has to be Protestant. The pope is also the head of state of the Vatican, so there would probably be a huge amount of concern about any kind of personal Union (same monarch) between the Vatican and an overwhelmingly un-Catholic country like Britain.
Another good video, Trev. I'm happy to see your improvements in these individual video essays! My pops used to be one of these "man's man" types, but I think I've softened him up over the years because of my insistence on having cats in the house and my struggles with mental health. Went from one of those "you're just sad, not depressed" types to asking legitimate questions and trying to understand how depression and my thoughts work. Also he became a cat dad and is super soft for my cats as well as his and mom's. Proud of him.
I was never as depressed in my entire life as when I was the only single male doing an "authentic manhood" course at my church. This only reminded me how happy I am to leave all that stuff behind.
"If you think the Gospel is soft, then wait til it COMES." I died so hard laughing. My Christian grandma (one who knows I abhor religion but still says she'll pray for me) heard that and took a double take.
i love how christians just constantly spew right-wing conservative nonsense. if religion would just be separate from politics maybe more people wouldn’t leave
As a guy who got bullied in high school for joining the drama club, this video hit very close to home. Masculinity is something I’ve always struggled with, and leaving the church has helped me be more comfortable with who I am and what I expect from myself. Thank you for this video and for all you do, it’s greatly appreciated.
UA-cam had been sorely lacking for critiques on religion and evangelism that's thoughtful and doesnt veer into the anti-SJW rabbit hole of the old skeptic community. It's good work you're doing here. Please keep it up
I remember once it started to rain just as a male friend was about to leave my apartment. It was really cold, and he didn't have an umbrella on him, so I offered to lend him mine. He said yes, please, thank you, until he actually saw my umbrella. It had big blue flowers printed on it, and so he wouldn't take it. He would much rather be drenched in freezing cold rain and risk getting sick than risk someone seeing him using a flowery umbrella.
That one pastor’s comment about getting arrested for saying there are only two genders when “walking while trans” is still criminalized is the conservative mindset in a nutshell.
trans people: we literally cant go in most public bathrooms bc a) it might be illegal and b) we'd fear for our safety conservatives: b,,but,, i cant tell you youre going to hell!! we're so oppressed!!!
congratulations on finding out that you’re a type of asexual! i am as well and i was told that i was abandoning my “womanly duties” by not wanting that kind of relationship. I’m also not a woman so that’s another thing because heaven for bid they ever validate the identity of a non-binary person, but that’s another story. anyways, it took me a long time to get away from that mindset and i’m so happy for you that you’ve come out of that mindset as well!!
I'm the same as well but until now I fortunately only had to deal with my mother wondering if she didn't raise me right as far as negative experiences go. Everyone else so far has been very accepting of it.
Dude, honestly I just found your channel and I'm so happy. You talk about literally every thought that is running around in my head and I love it. It feels great to see someone else talk about these things. I love your channel, never stop making these amazing video essays please 😍
When I was probabaly 11, I found a pair of turquoise shorts and a purple t shirt that I loved at the thrift store. I thought they were so cool, simply because I loved the colors! Wore them both the school the next day and one of the kids in my class said he thought I was a girl. Then another. Then when I got home from school my mon said she thought I was a gay man when she saw me. Being raised in a… not gay friendly christian sect… i was mortified that I looked gay, or like a girl wearing my new favorite clothes. I stuffed them to the back of my dresser and never wore them again. I look back and wish I would’ve stuck it out and kept wearing those purple and turquoise clothes. The christian and environment i was raised in couldn’t handle it and It ruined it for my insecure 11 year old self.
I think it's hilarious that Fox and other conservative media quotes L. David Mech's study on wolf behavior as though the "alpha and beta" thing doesn't exclusively apply to wolves in captivity. Pretty fitting how they keep misreading actual science (almost as if they're just wrong...almost).
Well I suppose it fits, since these guys *are* keeping themselves in captivity; what a tiny cage it is to be so confined by the rigid walls of what they see as "acceptable masculinity!"
As a witch I was perfectly comfortable with my girlfriend "wearing the pants". That's because she was smarter than me and better with responsibility, while I was supportive of her. She suffocated in her former churches and I never fit in at those places.
I'm a guy who likes fruity cocktails and tends to be outwardly emotional. But also I'm 6'3 and muscular, and I like eating meat and bodybuilding and sports. I think that this idea that there's one ideal of masculinity that all men should strive for is ridiculous. Just be proud of being yourself.
"These people don't understand what an adjective is," lol, I just had to pause the video and mention how much that line made me laugh. And it's so true too XD
As a trans woman, I relate heavily to this. (I really appreciate the extra trans rights bit btw, and I'm sure I'm not the only one 💖💖) If you do identify on the ace spectrum, happy pride month!! 🥰
"just wait until [Jesus] comes, and maybe when he comes you'll be the one he slaughters with his tongue" - Jonathan Evans (see the 10:08 mark) I know he's referencing the literalistic evangelical interpretation of Revelation, but this sounds so unintentionally sexual, doesn't it?
@@Glace1221 Oh, it's definitely hostile. Like, *intentionally* hostile. It just also sounds unintentionally sexual. And rapey and gross, really. To my ears anyway.
I'm so glad I moved beyond the small-minded limitations placed on me to be a man's man from a young age. I would constantly get picked on because I didn't like getting dirty as a kid or was a little more in touch with my emotions. Now I'm out here rocking the color purple and being emotionally available instead of being some schmuck who punches drywall when things don't go my way.
Same bro same. I did however fall into the whole MAGA-red pill-alpha male pipeline for a couple years but here I am back to how I was as a kid/teen lol I got picked on a lot for not liking getting and being in touch w my emotions also lol
I've always been confused why there has been such a push on "oh, you have to be this manly man and have all these sexual desires." After a while, I've actually realized I was sex repulsed. Though even after talking to some people about that, they just say it's "society pushing things on me" like no, I just don't have an interest in that stuff. Also, those people who are obsessed with all the manly man stuff must LOVE me, a trans girl who wants to be very feminine.
I remember once my parents were visiting me at university and there was a table giving out drawstring bags to students. They only had black ones and light blue ones. I asked for a blue one and for some reason my parents insisted on me getting the black one, toxic masculinity is so weird sometimes. Fellas, is it gay to like the colour blue?
As a kid I got my picture taken by this shitty place in a Walmart. The photographer working with me and my sister was likely a college student, and she couldn't find any props for me to pose with. She called back to her boss and asked what she should do and the older woman hollered back "He's a boy, give him a basketball." And she did. Mind you, I have absolutely ZERO talent sports-wise. My mother, who was there with us, knew this (of course) but said nothing. I was humiliated.
@@guybrush1701 I’m sorry you had to go through that, I’ve never really been interested in sports and for some reason that really bothers a lot of people
Toxic masculinity is one of those terms that initially sounds like Twitter warrior nonsense that actually has a great meaning. When I first heard it it was from over the top Tumblr people in the early 2010's applying it to completely unrelated things and I just assumed it was something kooky until I heard the real definition a couple of years ago. Anyway as someone who is effectively asexual (I have a lot of trauma based around my mom's relationships from when I was a kid and I would just rather be alone) and loves Tim and Eric I appreciated this video!
Hearing you're a fellow asexual made me very happy! I'm also aromantic, never been in a relationship and am still expected by my religious parents to marry someone and have kids, because that's "what is normal and natural".
This is fast becoming one of my favorite channels. I am an ex-Mormon, but so much of what you talk about resonates. Thanks for the time and effort to post your views and thoughts.
I've had much the same feeling -- also left the church (not only was I insufficiently "manly," it turns out I'm a woman!) and this channel has consistently resonated with me as well.
Just wanted to say, as someone who goes to an all-boys Catholic Highschool, this is something I deal with all the time. It’s just good to see that it’s being addressed.
Pastor 1: "Man up!" Pastor 2: "Man UP!" Pastors 3: "Maaaaan up!" Me: Man down! Man down! Maaaan dooown! For the love of nothing in particular, MAN DOWN!!!
Toxic masculinity really does boil down to fear. And fear is the lifeblood of evangelicals
Well said
fear and emotional abuse is a feature.
Leads to anger, hate, etc. 😠 Absolutely a feature, not a bug...
"They are the same picture."
You have to have a certain kind of insecurity to get angry over other people not meeting your standard of masculinity. I enjoy cars and meat and shooting as much as anyone you will find, but i dont harass vegans or threaten to harm anyone who thinks we need more strict gun laws.
I love how they base their entire identity on what genitalia they have, but then refuse to teach people about sex 🤷🏻♀️
Wow, that is a really good point.
Classic
ALL of this.
@@presentfuture7563 lol double all true lol
This ^ this made it so hard for me to understand myself, because I thought that's all their was
"If you think the gospel is soft then why would you think God would slaughter his son?"
As a father, I don't think killing my child is a sign of Christian Masculinity, that would make me a murderous psychopath that would land me in jail.
On top of the fact that not even in the written myths themselves does El Yahweh "slaughter his own son." I think he is getting confused with the myth that Abraham was just as willing to kill his own son for El Yahweh as the El-polytheists around him were willing to sacrifice their children (in various ways) for their favored "personal god" supposedly ruling in Heaven under authority from El and his most beloved son, Baal/Lord.
Then proceeds to say, “get ready for God to slaughter u next, if u disagree with this statement!”
Great image you’ve painted of the church pastor authoritarianism, but plz stop talking now
@@JoeySehn
That man is the phrase "Why the reformation was a mistake" condensed into a single human.
Not that the catholic and orthodox churches haven't done or do some f*cked up shit, but at least they aren't usually this deranged and bloodthirsty (at least outside of america. Somehow every religion inside the US goes batshit insane).
@@letsomethingshine This video isn't about Judaism or whatever strain of Gnosticism, it's about Christianity. The central idea of Christianity is that god sent his son to earth in order to have him crucified and killed as a sacrifice for human "sin".
@@keithklassen5320 A lot of Christianity also believes in a triune god, so God sent his only (begotten) son, himself, down. Simultaneously filicide, patricide, and suicide. Hey, another 3! How neat!
"If telling people NOT to bully and sexually harass people is taken as an attack on YOU, maybe you need to ask YOURSELF some questions..."
THANK YOU! Sensible people have been saying this for YEARS!
Well in a lot of cases the people will phrase it as a thing all men do or want to do, and in that case its understandable to be mad
Are you really that damn ignorant of the amount of inoculous things labeled as toxic. Most people are fine with not bullying and assaulting, we're just fed up with toxicity being thrown at everything we do.
It's so damn blood frustrating hearing idiots like this ignoring all this and thinking we all few for some right wing conspiracy theory. We listened to the feminists and their endless list of what's toxic and realised they're full of feces.
It's near impossible to do a steel man of this term as during research I just find more absurd ideas. Anyone denying this either is just completely stupid or lying.
PS. Tucker Carlson is a PoS.
@yungnuggets5911
Glad someone finally gets it. Probably would have much less resistance if it started out as a well defend term and wasn't self straw-manned by pop feminists. That's if it even started out as a good definition, but concept creep is a real thing.
Jesus: *helps the poor and sick*
*invites women into theological conversations*
*weeps when his best friend dies*
*preaches about love and turning the other cheek*
Evangelicals: eAt mEaT yOu KiLleD wItH yOuR bArE hAnDs beCaUsE iT’s mAnLy!
Not to mention that while there was no real rule against eating meat early Christians usually just didn’t.
Don't forget he hung around & befriended a prostitute
You know evangelicals don’t actually want to be near the real Jesus. He’s a middle eastern socialist, who they hate more than anything.
@@darkstarr984 Early Christians believed you could "catch idolatry" from eating certain meat (meat sold in marketplaces was blessed by Hellenistic priests) and it is an issue that New Testament authors argue about (St Paul doesn't see it as that important as issue, whereas the author of Revelation of St John considers it a serious issue and depicts Christ as threatening to "pour out his wrath" on those who eat "meat sacrificed to idols"). So there actually is an early Christian tradition of avoided meat altogether in one's diet "to be on the safe side" of the "idolatry" issue.
Paul one of his apostles also advocated for his fellow female apostles and claimed that sex and marriage are not the ultimate form of worship for the lord. Like say what you want but Paul was just a chad that scripts literally added onto his writings to solidify their claims and to defang some of his beliefs. Like Paul would be more disappointed in the churches of today
So much “ultra masculine” stuff is just aggressively, hysterically homoerotic. Amazing
It kinda makes sense though, doesn't it?
I mean it's a metaphorical circle jerk so, yeah. Or literal. Considering how often the ultra religious anti gay right end up caught with same sex lovers speaks volumes. They love the masculinity so much they need it in them any way they can get it.
ua-cam.com/video/2FdUjkKApGc/v-deo.html
"look at these shirtless muscular guys sweating"
Jeez, these people stare at gayer stuff than i do
That's called the "Valley of Virility".
As a largely uncompetitive, more feminine, and asexual dude that deconverted quite recently, I really appreciate this video. Nice work!
Yoooooo! Awesome to see I'm not the only one
Hey hey! I'm a fellow asexual fundie defector. Asexuality made abstinence very easy for me while I was a Christian for obvious reasons, but on the flipside I think being a fundie complicated my ability to recognize my own asexuality. It takes a long time to understand yourself better after leaving a dogmatic structure, and the process of figuring yourself out never stops. I wish you comfort and wellness.
Based
@@jessmstephens Thank you so much! I wish the same to you!
@@jessmstephens Being ace & aro definitely made absences easy 😂 it got awkward when people would say that god has a husband planed for me and that I was destined for marriage
There's a joke about Jesus and CrossFit in this video, but I can't nail where it would be.
Woah dude. That joke had me hanging from my seat ;)
gonna need a few days to figure this one out. Around 3 or so.
Trump never grew up but they love that man child
EYYYYY
Oh, God! 😆 Forgive us for we know not what we do! ... Wait a minute ... Yes we do! 😉😁
Them saying that men aren't going to church because church is too feminine, when so many churches still exclude women from active roles other than childcare, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Dumb, yes. But contradiction is all that is served at churches. Baptists are as authentic as their wine they serve, pretending to have "communion".
woah
There is little doubt that the church has been feminized
"If you think the gospel is soft, just wait until he comes"
"And then when he comes, maybe you'll be the one who he slaughters with his tongue"
They cant be serious they have to know what they're saying
Can confirm; I love getting tongue slaughtered after he comes🤭😂
Nothing men love more than innuendos, right?
Leftists are against homophobia until it’s time to make fun of conservatives.
@@sabersin5368-c2c it's not homophobic to point out how oblivious homophobes are
@Saber Sin, Oh bitch please, stop pretending like you care🙄
"I killed 3 black bears with my bare hands" - were they black licorice gummy bears?
The mentality of a dude who braggs about killing something mostly harmless.
Bears. Beats. Battlestar Gallictuca.
I was genuinely confused at the part where he talked about having a gun surgically grafted onto his wrists so he could kill that bear with his BARE HANDS
@@nataschavisser573 Mostly harmless ,mostly cringeworthy .
‘With my bare hands!’ Proceeds to demonstrate how he used a gun.
When I was a kid, I received a red and pink shirt for Christmas. It looked nice, but because of toxic masculinity, I was afraid I'd look girly if I wore it, so I didn't.
Red / pink were the male colors 100 years ago, blue for girls.
pink is a good color. It's actually kind of relaxing. I don't know why people have such dispositions against it
@@gethecked4446 what caused the shift?
Dude, you were a kid. Almost all kids would act that way, unless they were really outgoing and could pull it off.
Please tell me that it had the words "BAD MAN" written on it.
I live in a town of 5000 in Kentucky, no one locks their doors, everyone knows each other, super safe. It always makes me laugh when I see people open carry around town. They think it makes them look tough, when in reality it makes them look scared.
Maybe they'd have less reason to be toting guns around if they'd just lock their damn doors. **shot**
God will protect you from the virus and you don't need to be reasonable with any precautions, but gotta carry that damn high capacity, high caliber semiautomatic rifle just in case you need it.
What is a gun good for if you can't shoot them when your scared?
It's such a fascinating phenomenon. People move out to the country or suburbs to be safe only to spend their lives living in fear.
And let me guess, they are against other forms of arms like carrying around a sword, right?
normal people: "Don't harass people, that's bad, be kind."
These people: "WHY ARE YOU AGAINST MASCULINITY?!!!, something something, GOD, JESUS!"
Strawman much?
@@matianuclaudiu3201 this ain’t a strawman if this is how they literally act
@@matianuclaudiu3201 Not really this is how conservatives act.
@@matianuclaudiu3201 that’s literally what happened when Gillette made a certain infamous commercial
Basic dialectic at work here: _Either ALL masculinity is toxic or NONE is._
Now where did that come from? Was the Gillette Co. ever saying so or implying it in their campaign? Was anybody, except maybe some nth-gen rad-fems? Not really!!
But if you want to get people onboard with the idea that NO masculinity is toxic, you HAVE to strawman the issue. You have to say "these idiot libs are claiming ALL masculinity is toxic."
I recommend a manga named Vinland Saga. It's about a Viking man named Thorfinn who abandons the Vikings' idea of manhood after living a life of war as a teenager to become a true warrior. He becomes a kind, mature man who solves his problems peacefully and refuses to use violence. He challenges his time's cultural norms to become a less violent person even if he is ridiculed or persecuted. There is a running joke where the other Vikings wonder if Thorfinn is a Christian, but his conversion is never confirmed (maybe because it's not important). These "Chrisitan men" do not know what it means to be a mature man. These men are ignorant of what it means to be strong or an adult. A fictional, pagan character is a better man, person, and Christian than them! They should rethink their idea of manhood!
@The Sight of Sound Its amazing and the characters are so good. Love the developments and twists.
They make the church look good in that anime.
Like Berserk.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 are you being sarcastic? I haven’t gotten to the parts where they mention the church in both mangas. But I’ve heard some stuff. Lol.
Man follows that Tyr mindset.
@@viridianacortes9642Iirc the Holy See weren't evil, Mozgus and his inquisition definitely were.
Conservatives: You can’t just make up genders, there’s male and female
Also conservatives: I present to you, the sigma male.
I choked on my orange juice
Well not all conservatives, we need to be specific here (still funny though).
Yup nothing is funnier than watching "tuff guys" wine 🍷 about being marginalized.
😵
sigma is a indicator of social level, not another sex or gender
It tickles me how a Christian woman will defend toxic masculinity and go on to live a bitter life, being unhappy most days.
Most people are unhappy most days. You don't need Christianity or toxic masculinity for that.
Contentment in depressing situations is encouraged in christianity, its not surprising to me honestly
It reminds me of the episode of King of the Hill when Bobby told Hank he was unhappy and Hank told Bobby real men don't get to be happy.
same.
I think perhaps it's because of the fundamentalist male-protector narrative- it's okay for men to be toxically masculine because it's their job to take risks on behalf of women. Of course, a dynamic like that doesn't help anyone, but it's hard to critique a system you think was created by God
1. What is a man''s man? Some dude's husband?
2 . Everybody should know how to change a tire, regardless of gender or the lack of it.
Re: 1. -- clearly that can't be the case, after all good christian men are only supposed to own their wives and children! /s
yeah and everybody should learn to cook and clean because gender shouldn't be an excuse not to learn something cool and important.
@@EilonwyWanderer what, nobody
Gets to own anybody, that's just
Slavery, and Slavery is morally wrong
@@BigSteve9713 exactly, which is why I marked my sarcastic statement as such. That "/s" wasn't a typo.
@@EilonwyWanderer taught me
Something, never saw that before
And didn't know what it meant. I
Struggle with sarcarsm, have a
Good week
Trying to be conventionally "masculine", trying to solve all my problems alone and not talk about my anxiety led me to make the worst mistakes of my life and made me very unhappy. It's not like I'm totally purged of those toxic behaviors, but when I opened up to my family about my fears and my shortcomings I removed a great deal of stress and shame from my life.
I'm a Cali bodybuilder.
I built up my body because I got picked on a lot first - but then I found that I deeply enjoyed sculpting myself. Dressing in an incredibly flattering way - challenging how society says men should dress. The expectation is women are sex objects, men pursue them.
So I explicitly dress to make it unavoidable that I'm putting on a show for ANYBODY who wants to look.
Imagine being told "hey you can be whoever you are, no pressure" and being offended by that 🤦
Excuse the Randomness but here you go, have some warm Recommendations, cause the Learning never Ends! (Thats the entire reason, yes)
-Veritasium.
-Professor Dave Explains.
-It’s ok to be smart.
-Oversimplified (for History)
-Michio Kaku.
-Multiple channel with the word Engineering in it.
-Cynical Reviews.
-The Best for Last: Hbomberguy!
Ite because they don't want you to choose who you want to be. They want to choose for you.
@One from None its toxic when they want OTHERS to be masculine and they judge others on it.
The insane lack of self-awareness of how inherently sexist their language is always gets me too. It creates the dichotomy that what is manly is "good" so the opposite of that (femininity according to them) is "bad". Telling men they have to do performative acts in order to keep from seeming feminine (because god forbid you display any feminine characteristics, that would be horrible) reeks of sexism. And the saddest part is that this sort of thinking hurts both men and women alike.
According to them, masculinity is good and godly when performed by men and men only, and femininity is good and godly when performed by women. But only their specific version of traditional masculinity and femininity, which is just completely insane
There's also a lack of contextual understanding when they refuse to consider the cultures from which their Biblical teachings arose. I hear lots of Christian talk about how, "women aren't inferior, their role is just different from men." But if you look at Biblical history and most of Western history, women's roles were different BECAUSE they were seen as inferior to men. Femininity in a man is seen as personally degrading, while masculinity in a women is frowned upon because that causes her to step UP and out of her role rather than being submissive. (I imagine this is historically true in Eastern and other cultures as well, but I simply don't have the knowledge to speak to that.)
I wonder sometimes how much WW2 is still influencing us. There's been a lot of studies of generational trauma, the idea that soldiers went to war, got traumatized, and brought that trauma home that created inter-generational abuse. WW2 is the largest study of such things, and psychologists are still parsing out how it affected us socially and psychologically.
Thinking about just the cultural narrative of WW2, that the US were heroes, the 40s and 50s were a time of huge financial growth, and the nuclear family was a thing for just a snapshot of history: I really think that informs our "masculine" definition. That you are a warrior and a hero, and a cheerful dad who leads, and you never, ever talk about the things you saw in war, no matter how much those demons are messing you up inside. You drink, you beat your wife and kids, you do anything except admit you might like pink or cried after killing someone in battle. The ideal soldier is the ideal man, and an ideal soldier is never weak, because that lets the enemy win.
I just wonder how different definitions of masculinity before that were maybe not so fucking cruel and rigid, because women have been welcome in war and homosexuality is a huge part of warrior cultures throughout history. We follow an impossible standard for our work hours, for motherhood, even for patriotism, so it tracks we'd have an impossible standard for masculinity as well.
It does cut both ways though. Women are likewise praised for being feminine and discouraged from being anything but.
This especially jumps out at me when they talk about leadership. If masculine men are the only thing maintaining peace, stability, and sanity (7:07), what does that say about women? Would we steer society into insanity if given leadership roles? The implications are vile.
Here's a thing: I live with my parents. The immediate reaction to that statement is often to laugh at me since that statement implies I'm a manchild, someone who never grew up, an inferior male. However, I live with my parents since, due to various factors, they can't afford to keep the house we have without me here: They're elderly, in poor health, and the money they have coming in from pension isn't enough to pay bills and keep food on the table in this economy.
With context, most people change their tune immediately, saying that yeah, I'm doing a good thing and it would be wrong for me to be doing anything else. However, because of the way our society is geared, the immediate, knee-jerk assumption is always "This guy is an inferior male who lives with his parents because can't make it on his own", rather than "This guy is looking after the people in his life who can no longer make it on their own, and that is something to be respected".
Unfortunately, in American society, and especially on the evangelical and conservative side of things, they often don't care about context, just the appearances. They often judge on what they think they see and don't even bother to look for a reason why things are the way they are, instead just making snap judgments based on their assumptions and prejudices.
I also live with parents but mostly because in Mexican society (which is pretty chauvinistic in other ways) it’s not frowned upon to do so as traditionally you didn’t leave the nest until you got married (I’m 26 but I have friends who are older who still do that) and the economy.
But ever since moving up north I can’t help but feel a bit inadequate because of it, it didn’t occur to me it could be because of what you mentioned in addition to the leftovers of the internalized racism I had for some years.
In Latin America that's perfectly normal. If you get married you can still live with your parents or your inlaws and that would be normal as well.
The funniest (stupidest?) thing to me about that part of the video, when they talk about how godly men move out of the house quick, is how so many world cultures completely oppose that idea. Hell, even 100yrs ago people were way more likely to live with not just their parents but their entire *family*, people lived in the same towns for generations too. In many other cultures collectivism is more valued, and rather than encouraging men to strike out on their own and work only for themselves, it is expected that everyone contributes to their family, and to their community. Obviously generalizing here. But yeah its so ludacris to believe that American Evangelical masculinity is the only masculinity.
I think there is a difference inherent between the phrases 'living with my parents' and 'looking after my parents'. You're doing the latter.
I definitely feel ya man. I too am still living in the same house as my dad, but it's mostly because he's currently my boss (he's been running a towing company consisting of just himself with a truck for 20 or so years, and I've joined in the last 3. Gonna become 50/50 partners at some point), it's a job that I love seeing as how I get to help people out, and the house just coincidentally has enough parking for the necessary vehicles, so I'm not sticking around because of weakness like some might assume, but it's because it's objectively better and more convenient for both of us to have me continuing to reside here (Of course, I do kinda want to move across the street eventually, but I've always lived a single life, so I don't mind the close proximity one bit).
This reminds me of the time I told my dad about a guy who was being very creepy to me and would not take no for an answer, and I asked why it is that he can't accept my answer. He said the following: "its good that he won't take no for an answer and walk away with his tail between his legs saying 'oh I'm sorry I upset a girl I should leave her alone' and instead he drives head on. We need more men like that." And that scares the shit out of me.
You know what's even scarier? He justifies men objectifying women because its "manly." If he knew that my ex boyfriend had, while we were dating, cried on my shoulder because he was scared of losing me and was so happy that I comforted him, saying I love him; or that he sees me as a person and will not sexualize me--he'd say that he isn't a real man. Yes, he is. AND, he's a good person (no I don't have hard feelings against him, even if I did at first).
Its such a toxic mindset, it hurts men and women.
I hope you're doing good. That's a pretty fucked-up way of thinking.
@@Wyrm3 Yeah, I'm in a much better headspace than I was at the time of commenting. It's really shitty that people think that way
Huh... That's not just sad, it's kinda WEIRD. I've heard so many stories and stereotypes about fathers being violently protective of their daughters' well-being. So the idea that he goes a complete 180 from that fries my brain.
@@aquamarinerose5405 Then this is really gonna hurt your head, but my father always brags about shooting anyone I bring home. He's wild.
@@crackheadadventures So he's... both ends of the protectiveness spectrum, at the same time.
I'm a woman who just tends to gravitate to masculine activities and spaces because I think they're more fun. I never noticed anything odd because everyone treated me like I was one of the guys. It always upsets me whenever I hear about how some women are treated in these spaces because I know that people can do better.
Gotta love how innately homoerotic masculinity is: “if you think the gospel is ‘soft’ just wait ‘til he ‘comes’ and when he ‘comes’ maybe you’ll be the one he slaughters with his tongue.” Do most men just don’t recognize that admiring masculine traits and the vitality and bodies of men is pretty...gay? Don’t get me wrong, I’m bisexual myself, so things like this make me giggle more often than not.
🍆🌋🥵
Do you know about the Greeks?
That is the greatest quote I’ve ever read in a UA-cam comment.
@@fluffynator6222 I sure do
@@shinygekkouga52
I honestly have no idea what my initial point was...
As someone who's not a dude, my perspective is limited. All I will say is that in the case of us girls and women, I think every individual gets to decide what "femininity" is, so I don't see why it shouldn't be the same with men and masculinity. It's strange to me how we can live in a mostly patriarchal society but then have men emotionally suffer this much just because they don't like hunting and sports or some shit idk. Like I said, limited perspective, sorry if I came off as insensitive.
It totally should be. Positive masculinity definitely involves expressing yourself as you see fit and accepting all sorts of variations through an honest appreciation of the diversity of others' experiences.
These 'men's men' and their more toxic forms masculinity just come from a place of fear. They mistake hardness for true strength so instead of bending with the winds of change they stand rigid and inevitably break. This is how patriarchy harms men.
I've made my own definition of masculinity, so I'm right there with you. I've come to accept that it'll cause a lot of people to look at me funny but if I can feel still feel like a man while embracing more traditionally "feminine" ideals, perhaps this is something they should look into.
Of course, these people try to seem so macho that it winds up coming off like they're repressing more than just traditionally "feminine" aspects, if you get my drift.
Definitely the opposite, I think you hit the nail right on the head.
Masculinity is in part defined by the individual, but in a more important sense, is defined by the society one lives in. Same with femininity. When considering a group of strangers, or society as a whole, every person has their own unique concepts of masculinity. But when you extrapolate those individual perceptions out to an entire society, you get that society's idea of masculinity, and this masculinity is how you will normally be judged as masculine or not, regardless of your own idea of masculinity.
This societal perception is what pushes people to act like toxic douchebags. Regardless of what they might value, if they want to be seen as masculine by their peers, they will act how society tells them to.
People's individual ideas of masculinity are important, but I think they are important only because that's the only thing we can affect. We can change an individual's idea of masculinity, and in doing so mold a society's view on masculinity. I guess it's a kind of positive feedback loop.
As for the, why is masculinity more defined, I think that given society was historically dominated by men, because sexism, what men/women "are" were hammered out. Then the whole feminist revolutions happened and femininity has become more of an amorphous blob of a definition in most circles. No such revolution has occurred for masculinity (to my knowledge) so it is more well defined, and thus, more limiting.
I feel like Jesus was literally the description of modern-day non-toxic masculinity. I don't reckon these evangelicals actually read their Bibles lol.
Yeah, there's no such thing as a non-toxic masculine man because that would be a man beyond blame. Feminists can't have that.
@@Crapcarp555 that's.. literally the exact opposite of what Laura said lmao
@@Crapcarp555 bullshit. I‘m a feminist and there’s quite a nice amount of men that I personally know who are masculine and feel very well with being a man but still are not at all toxic! Most of them even do martial arts, some are even quite athletic and very masculine in their outward expression, but they all have critical thinking skills, empathy, an inclination to self-reflexion and the desire not to make their environment feel bad deliberately! It’s possible! It just takes a little active effort of not being an asshole!
@@Crapcarp555 You're not very bright, or funny for that matter. You know toxic masculinity was first coined by Men's Rights Activists, right?
If you believe that, YOU have never read the bible.
Best real man comment I've heard:
Father: what doughnut do you want?
Son: I want a strawberry tart.
Father: men don't eat strawberry tarts. Pick a doughnut.
(And then I wondered which doughnuts were the correct manly ones.)
Men don't eat strawberry tarts. I eat strawberry tarts. Therefore, I am a man. Checkmate, transphobes.
_Men_ do Not eat strawberry tarts
_You_ DO eat strawberry tarts
If I'm following the logic of the joke correctly wouldn't those two statements indicate that you could be literally anything EXCEPT for a man?
Not trying to make any kind of statement I just want to understand if I'm not getting something or if I got the intent but it just got typed out wrong.
Premise 1: "acting manly" means acting as a man would act.
Premise 2: I'm a man
Conclusion: whatever I do is manly
Exactly !!!
However, I do want to insert grunting noises here as the word "manly" somehow triggers a deep amydyla reaction...so I have to admit there is some genetics involved. Others behaviours may vary.
"If you think the Gospel is soft, wait til he comes, and then when he comes maybe you'll be the one that he slaughters with his tongue" taken out of context is undoubtedly one of the gayest things I have ever heard.
And I'm gay, so that's a backhanded compliment.
Me too. I burst out laughing when I understood the double entendre! 🏳️🌈🥒💦🤣🤣🤣😁
How is the biblical version of "Tongue" suppose to be thought of? Speach? "Rightous speech?" I don't understand that, but if it's taken literally that god comes to get you.. than literally his tongue is involved?
God eats ass?
So you are saying god is submissive and breedable?
@@lorekeeper685 Maybe God kinky like that.
@@shawnmulligan2894 I don't judge~ :p
So nobody is gonna mention how Jesus is gonna slaughter me with his...tongue?
And he's gonna come, apparently. Great. Can't wait. But can we get coffee first?
God is going to show us how hard he is because we’ve been so, so bad
Oh god I wish that was me
I am a man too
@@AbsoluteGorbSupreme You want to feel the warm love of Christ exploding deep within you?
"I love vegetarians because the more vegetables they eat, the more meat left for me."
That's...not how supply and demand works.
Plants grow faster than meat, I believe 🤔
@@PartnershipsForYou Yes, but the amount of meat available is always going to match the amount of demand for it, barring some kind of massive disruption to the industry. There isn't more meat for the rest of us because of the existence of vegetarians, there's virtually infinite meat to begin with because we've industrialized farming so much. In fact a rise in vegetarianism would have the contrary effect and would result in less meat for meat eaters as the overall demand would go down.
Also...He doesn't seem to understand food groups very well. I guess nobody eats bread? Not following Jesus very well there. Where's the fish?
I mean, he's technical not wrong, even if he is a dumbass
@@_ikako_ If he would have said the less meat they eat so maybe but what he said made no sense.
"If you were born with the genitalia of a male you don't have to live that way." That's kinda inspiring actually
Congrats on accepting your sexuality! I hate the trope that men don't have feelings. Men are human. Humans have emotions. If the emotions aren't expressed in a healthy way, it can lead to dire consequences. Drinking, drug use, abusing other people, or worse, murdering people. I wonder if school shootings are connected to toxic masculinity...
Not so many years ago tho, we went thru a wierd transitional phase. If men focused on feelings, other men still thought it was because they were "gay" (meaning any kind of sexual nonconformity). But then they'd say, "it's ok to be gay." OK, great. But if you're not "gay," don't go around bringing up feelings!!
@@RatPfink66 yeah, it’s completely oxymoronic and shows the cognitive dissonance people have even though they think they’re being a better person. People can’t just bottle up their emotions just because it “makes other people uncomfortable.” They can screw off if they don’t care about the well-being of their loved ones. Or they need some hard introspection and even therapy.
Throughout history it was always the men who were the emotional ones: the poets, the musicians, the dreamers, the obsessed, the ones who would throw themselves off a cliff for love. But somewhere along the line the passionate man was replaced by the stoic man, and strength transformed from being able to stick out against the grain to being able to endure without complaining.
@@incomingincoming1133 that really sucks though. Men are also people. They have feelings and the right to express them, as long as It doesn’t cause harm or threaten people that don’t deserve it. I see a lot of men nowadays taking out their anger with so much danger attached to it. They need help to process their emotions in a healthy way. It’s really sad, cause at the end of the day, they’re hurting themselves in the long run by alienating their loved ones and will lose their individuality to a group with shared ideals. That can be simultaneously painful and lonely to deal with. Great, you are now surrounded with people that are as angry as you are. But who will tell you they love you for you when the day ends?
The trans shooter is an exception. He was just an abused person who waged war against his Christian abusers. I'm surprised it's taken the LGBT community this long to start waging a war on Christianity after everything that's happened under Christian rule
This whole man-up attitude reminds me so much of my elementary coach. He was a loud guy, he seemed to hate any perceived “weakness.” I specifically remember him calling the people who died durning the Ebola outbreak weak. He had this thing in class, to test the boys, he would make the boys go against the girls, and if the boys lost he would berate them for loosing and would do this all the time.
word....the point of religion is enlightenment, and non of that is happening by attempting to play to the base elements of the male ego...I could see through this at 10 because of the good people who raised me, at 46 its just a joke
What is there to HATE about weakness? (Never ask these people. They DON'T like their beliefs being interrogated. Still less their hangups.) We think its catching, somehow, like a pandemic. We act strong to keep the feeling away. But we're still AFRAID of it. Not for society's sake - as we often pretend - but for our ego's sake.
I’ll be honest, I can’t think of anything less masculine than submission to self-righteousness moralists and mystics.
I’ve heard that some manly men don’t like going to church because they don’t like sitting there while some preacher tells them what to do. 🤷🏾♀️One could argue that doing so is antithetical to leadership and independent thought and action.
@@SuaNam08
Perhaps that’s why, but as long as the preacher has a firm Biblical basis, then they’re in the right! 👍
I can't think of anything more exhausting than having to coddle the insecurity that drives this need to feel especially manly or especially feminine. The great irony is how much more self-assured people come across when they don't seem preoccupied with fitting arbitrary external markers of whatever gender roles.
Once I was on a date with a guy and saw a Tinker Bell umbrella in his car. I asked if it was his little sister's, and he was like, "No, my friend and I were in a restaurant when it started raining, and the server gave us that from lost and found. I figured I might as well use it." I remember that response made me instantly relax around him because I didn't have to worry about offending any ridiculous sensibilities around masculinity.
Like, the most confident person you can think of would probably start seeming infinitely less confident if he or she suddenly became visibly preoccupied with seeming confident. What do pundits and other people giving lectures on traditional gender roles think they're projecting to the rest of the world by being such try-hards about it?
There was a video I saw recently that made me sad. It was one of those man o sphere youtube guys. He was saying how he recently got in to baking, and then had to spend a bunch of time explaining how baking is actually really manly and science like. It made me sad how insecure he (and others) are of their sexuallity that he had to justify enjoying baking. Like if baking isn't manly he can't enjoy it or he's no longer a man or something.
Gotta disagree here. Frosting and whipped cream IS manly!
I’ve seen this kind of stuff irl so many times it’s crazy lol
@@shroomer8294 like your name boo😘
Are they implying that it’s not manly to take care of yourself and feed yourself? There’s this weird thing out there that if you mean a very professional pastry chef that’s seen as a man’s job but if a woman were to get into that profession it’s much harder? The world is weird man.
@adrianghandtchi1562 sexism. When women do domestic labour it's unpaid for and undermined but when men do it it's professional
"Men...Drive Straighter with a Load"
-Mark Driscoll, presented without context
As a heterosexual man, raised in the mormon church, who left at 15, shoots guns, fishes, owns many tools including an axe, built a cabin with my friends for fun, and is currently helping rebuild an old truck for fun, I am no more of a man than anyone else. While I have these things about me that are traditionally masculine, I also cry during movies, prefer flavored beer to regular beer, I get emotional and I'm not afraid to share that shit either. Toxic masculinity is getting told that my preferred beer flavor (Mike's Hard Mango) makes me less of a man. That crying makes me less of a man. That I still live with my dad makes me lazy, though I work 40 hours a week on top of all that other shit I do. I guess my point is that the only form of masculinity I care for is the man who is comfortable with who he is and doesn't feel insecure about how "manly" he is. Also, fuck no he didn't kill three black bears with his bare hands. Lyin ass.
You have conservative credit, tho, if those guys knew your life story. Some of us don't have much. I consume steak and booze, am aroused by hot babes, change bulbs, open jars and swat flies, own a bunch of black t shirts and typically wear a 7-10 day beard. But the rest of me doesn't bear scrutiny. I'm 56, never married, underemployed and uncompetitive, I talk baby talk to cats, and live with elderly parents (yeah, I take care of them, but I also have ASD/NVLD so it's really a 2 way street). I could go on, but I'll spare you.
“They had us in the first half, not gonna lie”
I think it was a sexual innuendo for having rough sex with a "bear" hairy gay guy. 😂
I’m not really against hunting, but the way he brags about “I LOVE shooting and killing as many animals as I can!” is kind of psychotic.
I kind of hope he’s playing that up, because it sounds like some real sicko behavior.
"The worst thing you can be in this country is white straight and Christian." Nope. Nope I'm done. Do you have room for me in Canada cause I officially give up on this country. The fact that I live in Texas and they just passed the heartbeat bill only makes it worse.
@Phantom Person I mean I already pay them so yeah?
@Phantom Person Small price to pay to not go bankrupt and/or be in debt for the rest of your life from one visit to the hospital.
@J PC are they stupid and confusing taxes or logical and well thought out taxes that don't take all weekend to pay?
@@oscarwind4266 my country tells me how much to pay and basis of calculation... easy to pay
Absolutely! It takes time to get used to the snow and I'd recommend packing a sweater but I'm sure we could find some space for you somewhere 😤
I wonder if these Evangelicals have heard of this Jesus guy and all his teachings about empathy, compassion, turning the other cheek, etc.
Nope.
Nah they prefer the parts where he assaults people in the temple. Tells people to love him and hate their families and other similar verses. Also probably the part where he curses a tree for not bearing fruit out of season.
@@mwperk02 yea but the people he was assaulting were the rich people making deals in the church ...."prosperity gospel" ;) that they now love...
And he did it all while wearing a dress and having long hair!
Jesus (or the pic they Think is jesus ) had long hair and wore a dress and loved EVERYONE! he chiled with 12 guys
The thing i don’t get is why so many straight men worry so much about about impressing other men. Wouldn’t they want to impress women?
Or maybe....
I literally just gave a lesson in church to a group of men about how Jesus was kind, meek, and gentle and how as men we should emulate him. lol
It's nice that you're rebranding Jesus to have better qualities, I guess. All great attributes aside, he was sent to earth to tell people that his father will send you to hell forever if you don't believe in him. I can do without your Jesus. Men have so much more to look to than the Bible for deprogramming the toxic nonsense we were taught.
You can rebrand Jesus he was always like that plus masculine
These Christian men are more "old testament" types.
They like angry jealous god, not kind and peaceful god.
@@clouds-h5549 jesus need to be buff to cary that cros
Now talk about how Jesus was Socialist.
dude you're so right, they focus too much on the "masculinity" part and not the "toxic" part
So is there toxic femininity as well? If you say no you are sexist
Asexuals represent! I’ve just recently started being nice to myself about my lifelong dislike/disdain of sex. I’m an elder Gen X, n thank you to the awesome younger generations creating space where we all feel safe n warmly accepted. Love, family ❤️
My relationship with masculinity is complicated but once I’ve gotten away from christian and toxic expectations, it became easier to be me
I love being outdoors, I like field work to a certain extent but I don’t like guns, cars and I’m not really into chasing ladies even tho I’m bi
Growing up I was shamed because I loved all kinds of animals but getting away from that toxic mindset help me reconnect with that aspect of my life
One of my favorite things about coming out of the closet was that I could drop every single bit of toxic masculinity. I work on my own cars and I like drinking whisky, but I'm also a fancy boy who isn't afraid of wearing a little bit of makeup and ugly crying at the end of FFIX.
They aren't mutually exclusive as long as you have nothing to prove to anyone.
When my first son was born I got slapped with a scary thought. I don't know how to be a man, so how will I teach him? That fear lead me to dive deeper and deeper into the church because they promised me that they could teach me how to be a man. I spent countless hours in men's conferences like promise keepers, men's fraternity, every man's battle and reading the books. Hell I even taught the conferences. They never taught me anything! They just tried to make a mold and told me to make myself fit into it.
It's been two years since leaving the church and I am starting to feel a peace that there is no mold. That there is no model that I have to look like. That if I don't want to hunt because the idea of killing an animal breaks my heart, that's ok. I just wish I had found this out sooner.
A type of ace? Welcome to the LGBT community, happy to have you
Yes! I’m a trans viewer and your channel has helped me so much with working through my religious past in ways that I never imagined I had to and it makes me happy to have you as well!
So many christians indiscriminately discriminate the LGBT community without realizing that asexual, aromantic and demisexual people are also a part of it and represent values christians consider good.
@@redlinenantlersstudio6076 same here!
@@redlinenantlersstudio6076 you have a great singing voice!
Bisexual disaster here glad to have ya!
Listened to this video in the background while putting on my makeup this morning. Good video! I'm so glad words like asexual are available now to help us get our minds around the idea. I never heard of it until maybe ten years ago, and I grew up long before that. I'm sorry to say it's something I never understood until I started hearing the term. But then hearing the term demisexual also helped me understand myself - since I'm both bi and demi. I used to think something was wrong with me. But I'm getting past that, slowly. Leaving Catholicism definitely helped.
You're doing great work - keep it up!
"You drop some responsibility on a man and he'll straighten himself out." Oh ho, I cannot even begin to tell you how this didn't work for my white, cishet, Baby Boomer Dad who was also narcissistic and an alcoholic.
If it was such a perk to be spiritual leaders, you'd think more men would show up at Church. But as I said recently to a friend in regard to an ex-friend who was also Mormon: "I cannot think of a worse thing to tell a white cishet guy than 'You are automatically always right by default.'"
Thank you for creating this video. For years, even as I was still apart of the Evangelical community, I saw the rampant toxic masculinity that was devouring the church. I saw it do so much harm to so many men and subsequently women and families (including my own family). I’ve never seen this discussed before so thank you for bringing it to light and making me feel validated in my experiences. You are doing good work and helping a lot of people with this channel.
So is there toxic femininity as well? If you say no you are sexist
@@matianuclaudiu3201 yes now shut up
I’ve worked as a cart pusher at Walmart for almost a year and a half now, which I guess is (in my very small conservative Christian hometown) seen as man’s job alone. I identify as non binary and sometimes I’ll wear feminine clothing or dye my hair pink, that kinda stuff. I’m also not exactly the strongest either, I’m 5’4 and only weighing about 120lbs. I get some nasty comments out there from people who wear crosses on their shirts, or bible verses written on their hats. I’ve been told shit like “man up pussy” or “they’ll just hire anyone here, won’t they?”
It hurts to hear, but I have friends working there who fully support me. If anything, they’re really just complimenting me by recognizing my feminine side and pointing it out. Thank you for noticing, that’s exactly the vibe I was going for today.
Edit: I think my absolute favorite one was when a guy called me a pussy in the men’s room for washing my hands before returning to work (in the middle of a pandemic might I add)
bro, not the hand washing being seen as weak. i don't want shit particles on my hands, and i don't like the idea of touching food with weird little eggs or germs on my hands. that's how you make it into a chubbyemu video... or just become a statistic
About that clip at around 9:50
As a guy who owns several guns. When I see guns and religion mixed or guns and toxic masculinity or all three in this case mixed I get uncomfortable. Because you're putting together some ideas that can encourage violence with the capability to do so
I'm right there with you. Living in the bible belt of a rural part of my state, I see this conflation regularly. I believe it to be a fundamental building block of the growing threat of Christian Nationalism.
it never ends well.
I’m a huge gun nut who does gunsmithing as a side gig, especially on stuff like AR-15s and AKs. I probably could make a lot more money with it if I went back to my hometown and serviced the folks there, but it’s so rife with that sort of toxic evangelical/toxic masculinity BS that I get queasy just thinking about it.
I’ve found a niche instead teaching and doing repair/modification work for racial minorities and LGBT folks who are getting into guns but without all that conservative baggage. It’s not always perfect, but it’s soooo much less toxic and I tend to see eye-to-eye with them a lot more on things.
@@AscrodGreytagg bases af. Ive managed to join some more progressive and minority and lgbt friendly gun spaces. If you're on Facebook check out the Gun People who hate Gun People community for that kind of thing
@@dirtydish6642 yeah guns are just a prop and symbol of identity to these guys but unlike wearing a holy symbol or a silly hat you can and are in some ways encouraged to do a lot of harm
i actually died watching that 'manly church' compilation
Rip
F
My condolences
Its ok, op rose again 3 days later
@@ezekielsmith3571 praise be unto op, their blood will bring us salvation.
I was just talking about this recently. At my fundamentalist evangelical baptist church, so many of the sermons for men could be whittled down to “don’t be a sissy boy”
Well, sucks for them more sissy boys for me. 😉
Someone once questioned my masculinity because I ordered a Red Bull cocktail. Never mind the fact that it was a VERY strong drink, the fact that it was fruity was enough for this guy to call me a beta male.
you would be surprised, or actually you probably wouldn't, by the totally free interpretation of "what's a girly drink."
if they're having gin martinis, it's vodka (especially in a martini, jeeez, why not whip up a cosmo while you're at it?). with whiskey drinkers, it's gin, or anything in your whiskey but water, soda, rocks. with beer guys it's a real muddle...just get what the guy next to you gets.
I love when someone says toxic masculinity isn't real but says we need to get rid of bad traits like, then goes on to describe toxic masculinity
"christian culture leans increasingly towards the feminine"
Me hearing this: If that's the case can I a woman be the Pope
Another question is can the Queen be the pope too?
Well, technically, the actual title for the Pope is Supreme Pontiff, which doesn't exactly have male/female barriers, so technically, a woman can be Pope.
Isn't the Pope catholic tho? Or am I mistaken and there's no real difference between Christianity and catholicism?
@@brimward122 Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.
All Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholics.
@@ghuttsmckenzie4269 You mean the UK Queen? God no that’d be a massive constitutional crisis for both parties because she’s the head of the CofE, and the head of the CofE has to be Protestant.
The pope is also the head of state of the Vatican, so there would probably be a huge amount of concern about any kind of personal Union (same monarch) between the Vatican and an overwhelmingly un-Catholic country like Britain.
Another good video, Trev. I'm happy to see your improvements in these individual video essays!
My pops used to be one of these "man's man" types, but I think I've softened him up over the years because of my insistence on having cats in the house and my struggles with mental health. Went from one of those "you're just sad, not depressed" types to asking legitimate questions and trying to understand how depression and my thoughts work. Also he became a cat dad and is super soft for my cats as well as his and mom's. Proud of him.
Yeah, my dad’s the same way, he talks about how the men of my generation are too emotional and don’t act “manly” anymore.
I was never as depressed in my entire life as when I was the only single male doing an "authentic manhood" course at my church. This only reminded me how happy I am to leave all that stuff behind.
"If you think the Gospel is soft, then wait til it COMES." I died so hard laughing. My Christian grandma (one who knows I abhor religion but still says she'll pray for me) heard that and took a double take.
HE'S GONNA COME WITH HIS TONGUE ALL OVER YOU!!!!!
They really do make the Second Coming sound like the Second Cumming, if you know what i mean? 😂
"I killed a bear with my bare hands" *Proceeds to describe a shotgun*
Was it a bear cub?
Was it a traqed bear?
i love how christians just constantly spew right-wing conservative nonsense. if religion would just be separate from politics maybe more people wouldn’t leave
As a guy who got bullied in high school for joining the drama club, this video hit very close to home. Masculinity is something I’ve always struggled with, and leaving the church has helped me be more comfortable with who I am and what I expect from myself. Thank you for this video and for all you do, it’s greatly appreciated.
UA-cam had been sorely lacking for critiques on religion and evangelism that's thoughtful and doesnt veer into the anti-SJW rabbit hole of the old skeptic community. It's good work you're doing here. Please keep it up
Its incredibly amusing that none of these people understand what strength really is.
Any man I've met who claims they're a strong manly man is usually the most emotionally volitile time bombs.
To them it's performative. An act. A put-on. Something that says to others "I believe in strength, therefore I am strong."
"When he comes he will slaughter you with his tongue"
I'm sensing some double meaning in this line.
I remember once it started to rain just as a male friend was about to leave my apartment. It was really cold, and he didn't have an umbrella on him, so I offered to lend him mine. He said yes, please, thank you, until he actually saw my umbrella. It had big blue flowers printed on it, and so he wouldn't take it. He would much rather be drenched in freezing cold rain and risk getting sick than risk someone seeing him using a flowery umbrella.
That one pastor’s comment about getting arrested for saying there are only two genders when “walking while trans” is still criminalized is the conservative mindset in a nutshell.
Christian and conservative persecution complex going full bore there.
trans people: we literally cant go in most public bathrooms bc a) it might be illegal and b) we'd fear for our safety
conservatives: b,,but,, i cant tell you youre going to hell!! we're so oppressed!!!
congratulations on finding out that you’re a type of asexual! i am as well and i was told that i was abandoning my “womanly duties” by not wanting that kind of relationship. I’m also not a woman so that’s another thing because heaven for bid they ever validate the identity of a non-binary person, but that’s another story. anyways, it took me a long time to get away from that mindset and i’m so happy for you that you’ve come out of that mindset as well!!
Same.
I'm the same as well but until now I fortunately only had to deal with my mother wondering if she didn't raise me right as far as negative experiences go. Everyone else so far has been very accepting of it.
i'm asexual too
oh hey same story here! i'm proud of you for working past that, its a great feeling :D
Dude, honestly I just found your channel and I'm so happy. You talk about literally every thought that is running around in my head and I love it. It feels great to see someone else talk about these things. I love your channel, never stop making these amazing video essays please 😍
When I was probabaly 11, I found a pair of turquoise shorts and a purple t shirt that I loved at the thrift store. I thought they were so cool, simply because I loved the colors! Wore them both the school the next day and one of the kids in my class said he thought I was a girl. Then another. Then when I got home from school my mon said she thought I was a gay man when she saw me. Being raised in a… not gay friendly christian sect… i was mortified that I looked gay, or like a girl wearing my new favorite clothes. I stuffed them to the back of my dresser and never wore them again. I look back and wish I would’ve stuck it out and kept wearing those purple and turquoise clothes. The christian and environment i was raised in couldn’t handle it and It ruined it for my insecure 11 year old self.
I think it's hilarious that Fox and other conservative media quotes L. David Mech's study on wolf behavior as though the "alpha and beta" thing doesn't exclusively apply to wolves in captivity. Pretty fitting how they keep misreading actual science (almost as if they're just wrong...almost).
Hell, even THE MAN HIMSELF DISCREDITED HIS OWN STUDY ON WOLF BEHAVIOR!
@@SeanStrife exactly! I only gound out about that because of HBomberguy's videos where he once mentioned that
Well I suppose it fits, since these guys *are* keeping themselves in captivity; what a tiny cage it is to be so confined by the rigid walls of what they see as "acceptable masculinity!"
@@EilonwyWanderer
My thoughts exactly.
Its like if aliens tried to study common human social structures by looking at prison gangs.
"And then when he comes maybe you will be the one he slaughters with his tongue." --- That was oddly sexual
That escalated quickly.
Maybe he is anteaters and we are ants...
And he didn't even get it. I'm so asexual I miss most sexual jokes, and I got it.
Hey god, what that tongue do?
As a witch I was perfectly comfortable with my girlfriend "wearing the pants". That's because she was smarter than me and better with responsibility, while I was supportive of her. She suffocated in her former churches and I never fit in at those places.
Ayyeee! Another Brandon
switch or witch lol
I am imagining a green skinned wicked witch but she’s wearing jeans
Why do you hate God when He loves you?
Witch=rebelious against your creator
I'm a guy who likes fruity cocktails and tends to be outwardly emotional. But also I'm 6'3 and muscular, and I like eating meat and bodybuilding and sports. I think that this idea that there's one ideal of masculinity that all men should strive for is ridiculous. Just be proud of being yourself.
TRUE. having a balance of masculinity and femininity is great. taking all the good things from everything
We need another one like this, and longer!! ❤
💗🌟💗
"These people don't understand what an adjective is," lol, I just had to pause the video and mention how much that line made me laugh. And it's so true too XD
They choose to be ignorant and angry.
That's the best way I've ever heard it summed up
"Toxic masculinity isn't bad! It feels great! Look at how much fun i'm having by making you misserable."
Sorry I can only give this one thumb up. It deserves many more.
No such thing as toxic masculinity
4:52 A lion would starve to death if there were only men around. There is a reason lions eat large animals.
The way time flies when I'm watching your videos. I'm always surprised when I hear you say, 'thanks for watching and making it this far'
As a trans woman, I relate heavily to this. (I really appreciate the extra trans rights bit btw, and I'm sure I'm not the only one 💖💖) If you do identify on the ace spectrum, happy pride month!! 🥰
Shared this with my male friends. Hopefully, opens a good conversation. Thank you for making this.
"just wait until [Jesus] comes, and maybe when he comes you'll be the one he slaughters with his tongue"
- Jonathan Evans (see the 10:08 mark)
I know he's referencing the literalistic evangelical interpretation of Revelation, but this sounds so unintentionally sexual, doesn't it?
I was gonna say hostile but okay
I could not keep a straight face when I heard that
@@Glace1221 Oh, it's definitely hostile. Like, *intentionally* hostile. It just also sounds unintentionally sexual. And rapey and gross, really. To my ears anyway.
I couldn't help but think "if you know what I mean" when he said that. lol
So does what he prefaced it all with: "If you think the gospel is soft", implying that it's "hard" 🍆😁
I'm so glad I moved beyond the small-minded limitations placed on me to be a man's man from a young age. I would constantly get picked on because I didn't like getting dirty as a kid or was a little more in touch with my emotions. Now I'm out here rocking the color purple and being emotionally available instead of being some schmuck who punches drywall when things don't go my way.
Same bro same. I did however fall into the whole MAGA-red pill-alpha male pipeline for a couple years but here I am back to how I was as a kid/teen lol I got picked on a lot for not liking getting and being in touch w my emotions also lol
I punched my first drywall at the age of five!
I've always been confused why there has been such a push on "oh, you have to be this manly man and have all these sexual desires." After a while, I've actually realized I was sex repulsed. Though even after talking to some people about that, they just say it's "society pushing things on me" like no, I just don't have an interest in that stuff. Also, those people who are obsessed with all the manly man stuff must LOVE me, a trans girl who wants to be very feminine.
My favourite quote from this video:
"The real problem here is that these people don't understand what an adjective is"
"Men should act like -- men!" ~ Mark Driscoll
To define a term by using the same term is to say -- nothing!
So true, and yet ...
so unapreciatingly obvious. So easy to dupe the credulous.
I remember once my parents were visiting me at university and there was a table giving out drawstring bags to students. They only had black ones and light blue ones. I asked for a blue one and for some reason my parents insisted on me getting the black one, toxic masculinity is so weird sometimes. Fellas, is it gay to like the colour blue?
Idk man seem sus 🥵💅
I kid you not when I say this, my father had the ridiculous thought that only gay men wear pink shirts, any kind of pink shirts. 🙄
As a kid I got my picture taken by this shitty place in a Walmart. The photographer working with me and my sister was likely a college student, and she couldn't find any props for me to pose with. She called back to her boss and asked what she should do and the older woman hollered back "He's a boy, give him a basketball." And she did.
Mind you, I have absolutely ZERO talent sports-wise. My mother, who was there with us, knew this (of course) but said nothing. I was humiliated.
@@guybrush1701 I’m sorry you had to go through that, I’ve never really been interested in sports and for some reason that really bothers a lot of people
@@Joe-vm6ds thank you. I appreciate it.
If it keeps going like this i'll just become a woman out of SPITE
Seconded
"If men love Booba why men not have Booba"
Lmao!
"Men should do manly things." He said while sitting ian an air-conditioned studio in a fancy suit with perfectly coiffed hair
Toxic masculinity is one of those terms that initially sounds like Twitter warrior nonsense that actually has a great meaning.
When I first heard it it was from over the top Tumblr people in the early 2010's applying it to completely unrelated things and I just assumed it was something kooky until I heard the real definition a couple of years ago.
Anyway as someone who is effectively asexual (I have a lot of trauma based around my mom's relationships from when I was a kid and I would just rather be alone) and loves Tim and Eric I appreciated this video!
"I have killed three black bear, with my bare hands" -Clayton King
Being from WV, most black bears are about the size of a large dog. He disgusts me.
Using guns is not bear handed....
He won't be able to pull the same against a polar bear.
Photos or it didn’t happen
I just assumed he strangled 2 cubs after shooting the mother. At least him saying he ‘did it with his bare hands’ wouldn’t be completely wrong.
Hearing you're a fellow asexual made me very happy! I'm also aromantic, never been in a relationship and am still expected by my religious parents to marry someone and have kids, because that's "what is normal and natural".
This is fast becoming one of my favorite channels. I am an ex-Mormon, but so much of what you talk about resonates. Thanks for the time and effort to post your views and thoughts.
I've had much the same feeling -- also left the church (not only was I insufficiently "manly," it turns out I'm a woman!) and this channel has consistently resonated with me as well.
Just wanted to say, as someone who goes to an all-boys Catholic Highschool, this is something I deal with all the time. It’s just good to see that it’s being addressed.
Pastor 1: "Man up!"
Pastor 2: "Man UP!"
Pastors 3: "Maaaaan up!"
Me: Man down! Man down! Maaaan dooown! For the love of nothing in particular, MAN DOWN!!!