I didn't know that Vaylin managed to transfer herself into one of the jedi. It would be interesting if she did. I'd like to see a redemption arc for her. I always felt bad for her character even though she does such terrible things because of what happen to her as a child. I dunno how anyone could turn out normal after going through what she did.
What I find pretty crazy is how if Vitiate wasn't so power hungry and actually wanted to rule over the galaxy forever (similar to Palpatine's final goal) instead of just consuming everything, he would've easily done it. The Eternal Empire stomped both the Sith Empire and Republic easily, so imagine if he used the eternal fleet as an addition to the Sith Empire, the Republic would've been screwed and the galaxy would have been in darkness until the end of time lol.
It is always a sore point for me to see Vaylins story, Bioware made such a bad decision killing her off rather than making her the redemption story. With her background as an innocent and her unresolved mother issues she was perfect for it. She could even have been a roamknce arc for the outlander but instead they wasted her... and gave is a Redeemed Arcaan instead that made NO SENSE the guy was a total psycho patricidal, fraticidal douche. The writers messed this one up big time sadly :(
Ya, her character was wasted. Very complex, an emotional nuclear weapon..her taming story could go on and on and still be a nail biter til the very end. Although not at all comparable by disposition, the waste of her character reminds me of Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) of Alien: Prometheus and Covenant. Shaw’s character was so built up in Prometheus, it’s impossible to think of the film without her - and then she’s immediately killed of in Covenant. And Arcann’s redemption was thoroughly underdeveloped to the point it absolutely made no sense. In fact, the entire plot fragment was not only unnecessary, the story suffers for it. I can’t imagine why the writers forced this other than to ‘try on’ a redemption for an Anakin experiment. Egad, I hope that wasn’t the case; ruining a TOR story to test drive an already ruined ‘modern’ SW story would be the height of blasphemy.
Honestly, im 50/50 on this, i sort of agree with you but, i also feel her not being saved is the best path to go, not everyone can be saved, some people can be broken to a point of no repair and that is Vaylin, a child who was tortured and suffered her whole life. Having a romance story wouldnt make sense with her character, saving her would also not make much sense.
@@N.Oriiii I could agree with that, were it not for how they structured her story from the cinematics to the in game quests etc.. ALL of it was geared toward her and her mother Senya reuiniting and sorting things out and it just didn't happen. And not only that they then throw Arcann at us who was utterly irredeemable and showed ZERO signs of wanting to be anything but a scum bag and went oh yeah he's redeemed now and now you can also romance him and all that was purely because some folks were calling for him on the forums. It was silly the Vaylin arc was a damp squib that ended in total disappointment, which was in stark contrast to how her story had been set up and started. It was just a hugely lost opportunity to make that story matter. As for a Vaylin romance arc making sense, well it could have if she had been redeemed by the Commander, if he had helped reunite her and her mother, helped her get free of her fathers influence and deal with the trauma of her childhood and that feeling of being abandoned by her mother leaving her feeling grateful and close to the Commander. But instead the writers were lazy and lacking in imagination.
@@neowolfsden I wouldn't go so far to say the writers were lazy but they were forced to rush it. Im not a huge fan of how quick Arcann was redeemed honestly, was very rushed.
Throughout the entire game I had planned on killing her as soon as the option presented itself… but I’m not gunna lie once I got to the lab she was raised and tortured in I really started to understand her. That’s also when I realized that valkorian was going to betray me and would never be anything more then pure evil.
Same really... I hated all of his children, but the final chapters along with echoes of oblivion really changed my mind. Man the emperor is an asshole xD
11:10 Stupid explosion, poor girl can’t even make a choice in peace. I’d be interested in a scenario where that explosion didn’t happen. There was clear hesitation, uncertainty, and even a desire to understand what had just happened. She doesn't attack immediately so there was a seed of uncertainty there. I think that was the last real chance for her redemption before her death. The first time I played, I literally yelled, “Arcann, say something! She’s your sister.” And honestly, even though Arcann treated her like a tool, his word might have been the most pivotal of all.
Good video. Vaylin is an interesting character in that she answers would Anakin have been like if Anakin has lost his mind, instead of becoming the self-hating monster Darth Vader. One would wonder how powerful Vaylin would have been if she has been properly taught, instead of having her mind and body chained. I hope you are right on your theory of Vaylin at the end of your video.
Oh I wonder that too! Vaylin had the potential to succeed Valkorion and be a benevolent ruler of Zakuul... Would make a cool what if story actually. Thanks for the comment!
My god!!!! Your videos are truly amazing!!! Can you make intros for every character video you do moving forward!!!! And can you do , Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus,& Darth Traya! And keep up the great work!
17:33 - I don't think Vaylin willingly joined that battle. If you play it on the a character who has Senya and Arcann one of her responses is about being dragged there by the player. I suspect she was bound to the player since the end of KOTET.
Yeah she didn't prepare and go willingly of course haha! - Her spirit wasn't destroyed alongside Valkorion in KOTET Ch 9 as clearly we know she appears in Echoes of oblivion :D It's possible she was bound to the Outlander after they / Valkorion consumed her on Odessen, it makes the most sense for sure!
Also Valkorion's words in both the light and dark side scenarios suggest strong manipulation aimed at keeping Vaylin neutral, out of the fight. We have to remember that she was dragged but she didn't have to do anything. She could have said, "Fuck you, you all ruined my life." and be neutral. Also after Vaylin makes a decision Tenrebre is visibly irritated in the next confrontation with the player
@@SWCentral ok in the old republic star wars who do you think is the most likely canon romance partner personally I think its lana. ps I know non of them are canon it's up to the player choose i was just wondering what you think is the most likely.
SW Disney: "We want strong and independent female characters in our movies and shows" SW Community: "What about Vaylin?" Disney: "No not that kind. She's too good. But Rey? We want her, Mary Sue is the way". Disney Star Wars does not know what we want and they don't care at all.
Nailed it, brother. Nailed it. Well, I think you nailed it. I stopped watching the films years ago…maybe since ROTJ? I DID see Rogue One (which I liked), but only cuz I was stuck in a hotel and there was nothing else on. But ever since disney started using the theater as a platform for their f-ed up ideology bs…no. I’m not funding any of that garbage. Not when there’s so much TOR content out there on YT.
@@SWCentral i still don't understand why wouldn't senya just force pulled vaylin and dragged her outa there even thou she is corrupted. so simple. i guess that's why senya blames herself big time in EoO for "not fighting harder" lol.
@@MakutaBrainhax yeah pretty much! She also hates herself because she allowed it to happen without questioning Valkorion further. That’s why after she tried to rescue Vaylin, she exiled herself to the frontline of the conflict. Separating herself from her family.
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I didn't know that Vaylin managed to transfer herself into one of the jedi. It would be interesting if she did. I'd like to see a redemption arc for her. I always felt bad for her character even though she does such terrible things because of what happen to her as a child. I dunno how anyone could turn out normal after going through what she did.
It's VERY much suspected and the devs are mute silent on the matter haha. *Time will tell* - Valkorion
@@SWCentral what body did she took over hopefully was a female Jedis it be a big turn off and if she a guy
6 years later and I am still disappointed that we couldn't start a romance with her.
Give it time, she'll be back :)
@@SWCentral I'm more disappointed that we couldn't get her to turn to the Light. She deserves it after the life she lived, with the father she had
@@marcusblackwell2372 True
@@marcusblackwell2372 Honestly we do not know that she might have a chance to turn to the light with taking over the Padawan's body
@@zilari3662 I thought she was a Force Ghost
What I find pretty crazy is how if Vitiate wasn't so power hungry and actually wanted to rule over the galaxy forever (similar to Palpatine's final goal) instead of just consuming everything, he would've easily done it. The Eternal Empire stomped both the Sith Empire and Republic easily, so imagine if he used the eternal fleet as an addition to the Sith Empire, the Republic would've been screwed and the galaxy would have been in darkness until the end of time lol.
This poor, poor child…I am awaiting her return so she could be given some sort of happy ending.
It is always a sore point for me to see Vaylins story, Bioware made such a bad decision killing her off rather than making her the redemption story. With her background as an innocent and her unresolved mother issues she was perfect for it. She could even have been a roamknce arc for the outlander but instead they wasted her... and gave is a Redeemed Arcaan instead that made NO SENSE the guy was a total psycho patricidal, fraticidal douche. The writers messed this one up big time sadly :(
Preach it :( Vaylin will return...
Ya, her character was wasted. Very complex, an emotional nuclear weapon..her taming story could go on and on and still be a nail biter til the very end. Although not at all comparable by disposition, the waste of her character reminds me of Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) of Alien: Prometheus and Covenant. Shaw’s character was so built up in Prometheus, it’s impossible to think of the film without her - and then she’s immediately killed of in Covenant.
And Arcann’s redemption was thoroughly underdeveloped to the point it absolutely made no sense. In fact, the entire plot fragment was not only unnecessary, the story suffers for it. I can’t imagine why the writers forced this other than to ‘try on’ a redemption for an Anakin experiment. Egad, I hope that wasn’t the case; ruining a TOR story to test drive an already ruined ‘modern’ SW story would be the height of blasphemy.
Honestly, im 50/50 on this, i sort of agree with you but, i also feel her not being saved is the best path to go, not everyone can be saved, some people can be broken to a point of no repair and that is Vaylin, a child who was tortured and suffered her whole life.
Having a romance story wouldnt make sense with her character, saving her would also not make much sense.
@@N.Oriiii I could agree with that, were it not for how they structured her story from the cinematics to the in game quests etc.. ALL of it was geared toward her and her mother Senya reuiniting and sorting things out and it just didn't happen. And not only that they then throw Arcann at us who was utterly irredeemable and showed ZERO signs of wanting to be anything but a scum bag and went oh yeah he's redeemed now and now you can also romance him and all that was purely because some folks were calling for him on the forums. It was silly the Vaylin arc was a damp squib that ended in total disappointment, which was in stark contrast to how her story had been set up and started. It was just a hugely lost opportunity to make that story matter.
As for a Vaylin romance arc making sense, well it could have if she had been redeemed by the Commander, if he had helped reunite her and her mother, helped her get free of her fathers influence and deal with the trauma of her childhood and that feeling of being abandoned by her mother leaving her feeling grateful and close to the Commander. But instead the writers were lazy and lacking in imagination.
@@neowolfsden I wouldn't go so far to say the writers were lazy but they were forced to rush it.
Im not a huge fan of how quick Arcann was redeemed honestly, was very rushed.
Throughout the entire game I had planned on killing her as soon as the option presented itself… but I’m not gunna lie once I got to the lab she was raised and tortured in I really started to understand her. That’s also when I realized that valkorian was going to betray me and would never be anything more then pure evil.
Same really... I hated all of his children, but the final chapters along with echoes of oblivion really changed my mind. Man the emperor is an asshole xD
“Kneel, father!!! KNEEL BEFORE THE DRAGON OF ZAKUUL!!!”- Vaylin KOTET Chapter 9
Heheh...
17:15 hehe ;)
Senya; You've turned your back on this family for the last time.
@@mikeor- a god has no family.
11:10
Stupid explosion, poor girl can’t even make a choice in peace.
I’d be interested in a scenario where that explosion didn’t happen. There was clear hesitation, uncertainty, and even a desire to understand what had just happened. She doesn't attack immediately so there was a seed of uncertainty there.
I think that was the last real chance for her redemption before her death.
The first time I played, I literally yelled, “Arcann, say something! She’s your sister.” And honestly, even though Arcann treated her like a tool, his word might have been the most pivotal of all.
Good video.
Vaylin is an interesting character in that she answers would Anakin have been like if Anakin has lost his mind, instead of becoming the self-hating monster Darth Vader.
One would wonder how powerful Vaylin would have been if she has been properly taught, instead of having her mind and body chained.
I hope you are right on your theory of Vaylin at the end of your video.
Oh I wonder that too! Vaylin had the potential to succeed Valkorion and be a benevolent ruler of Zakuul... Would make a cool what if story actually. Thanks for the comment!
It's always a two edged sword when a game creates good characters and needs to decide whether to let the PC save or kill them.
I really liked vaylin her story was super tragic and sad in my opinion.
I hope Vaylin comes back somehow that would be awesome.
My god!!!! Your videos are truly amazing!!! Can you make intros for every character video you do moving forward!!!! And can you do , Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus,& Darth Traya! And keep up the great work!
I will certainly do my best friend! Traya? Oh she's special... Very special. Perhaps ;)
*Apathy is death!*
17:33 - I don't think Vaylin willingly joined that battle. If you play it on the a character who has Senya and Arcann one of her responses is about being dragged there by the player. I suspect she was bound to the player since the end of KOTET.
Yeah she didn't prepare and go willingly of course haha! - Her spirit wasn't destroyed alongside Valkorion in KOTET Ch 9 as clearly we know she appears in Echoes of oblivion :D It's possible she was bound to the Outlander after they / Valkorion consumed her on Odessen, it makes the most sense for sure!
Also Valkorion's words in both the light and dark side scenarios suggest strong manipulation aimed at keeping Vaylin neutral, out of the fight.
We have to remember that she was dragged but she didn't have to do anything. She could have said, "Fuck you, you all ruined my life." and be neutral.
Also after Vaylin makes a decision Tenrebre is visibly irritated in the next confrontation with the player
Such a wonderful production again, just keeps failing to disappoint me. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
You should do Theron Shan...I know he has a past before the Revan expansion and is in at least one of the SWTOR novels.
Theron is likely our next Explained video :) if not, it will be Gnost Dural and then Theron
She would’ve made a sick companion tbh
Vaylin’s the epitome of my relationship words of wisdom:
You sleep with crazy.
You never marry crazy.
Words all teenage boys should hear lmao.
Good 😊
Are those things on here forehead Orbalisk? Like what Bane had
Haha! Noooo they are fashion related. Pretty sure it's a female zakuul thing
Ya, her moms has some similar, but different.
In truth, she absolved Senya of all when she turned her back on her when Senya tried to save her. Vaylin freed Senya.
good video is it ok if I ask you a question?
Shoot :)
@@SWCentral ok in the old republic star wars who do you think is the most likely canon romance partner personally I think its lana. ps I know non of them are canon it's up to the player choose i was just wondering what you think is the most likely.
@@sueflewelling3657 You're probably right with Lana but also Theron maybe :) however my heart lies with Jaesa haha
@@SWCentral you dark side devil 😈 (since most do that choice)
@@zilari3662 You know it hehe
SW Disney: "We want strong and independent female characters in our movies and shows"
SW Community: "What about Vaylin?"
Disney: "No not that kind. She's too good. But Rey? We want her, Mary Sue is the way".
Disney Star Wars does not know what we want and they don't care at all.
Nailed it, brother. Nailed it.
Well, I think you nailed it. I stopped watching the films years ago…maybe since ROTJ? I DID see Rogue One (which I liked), but only cuz I was stuck in a hotel and there was nothing else on. But ever since disney started using the theater as a platform for their f-ed up ideology bs…no. I’m not funding any of that garbage. Not when there’s so much TOR content out there on YT.
what was it he said
"Time will tell" - Valkorion
wth? senya did try to save her from this misery, but vaylin refused and stayed on nathema.
5:41 Yes I explain that here :)
@@SWCentral i still don't understand why wouldn't senya just force pulled vaylin and dragged her outa there even thou she is corrupted. so simple.
i guess that's why senya blames herself big time in EoO for "not fighting harder" lol.
@@MakutaBrainhax yeah pretty much! She also hates herself because she allowed it to happen without questioning Valkorion further. That’s why after she tried to rescue Vaylin, she exiled herself to the frontline of the conflict. Separating herself from her family.
*facepalms* That image was the unfinished one =/
nvm youtube.
You ask me, she's the one who should have been redeemed, not Arcann.