unsubbed on twitch for you taking mod away on twitch for 0 reason then trying to say i was never mod. took a few months away from my pc to take care of a friend who just got paralyzed in a motorcycle accident. wasted 50k points gambling for mod just to come back from that to not be one. what a guy. was my favorite streamer and content creator but now Tpapa will be after that encounter.
The game registers that time as the npc still being alive.. you know what i mean if youve every soloed kree and the ranger respawns 15 ticks after kree is ‘dead’ - meaning 0hp
I’ve died at vorkath after casting crumble undead and then trying to click away from a fireball and not moving because I’m clicking on the dead zombified spawn. It’s super annoying.
you do realize that vorkath cant attack while his zombie spawn is alive right? wheres the fireball coming from mate. the spawn has to die before he can attack again. there was no fireball bro
@@BloodySeranade I know he can’t attack while it is alive… that’s what I said. If I kill it with crumble undead and his first attack following the spawn is a fireball, and the spawn is still in death animation, you’re unable to move if you are accidentally clicking on the spawn that is dead but has not yet disappeared
Definitely agree with the dead mob click options; the first time I had it be an issue was in the Inferno, where every second matters. After seeing the cheat that despawns mob death animations 3 or 4 ticks sooner, it was just baffling that such a huge UI issue is still in the game.
Yeah I'd rather use runelite because Jagex cannot fix or add things in the game that actually makes them money! Does anyone trust them to fix things or add stuff to a client if they get rid of the competition?
i don't think 1 click pickpocketing is an issue. Not including Black jacking because multiple clicks are the point. When you can just spam click ardy knights and master farmers, but have to go right click and choose pickpocket for like elves, vyres, and even men at level 1 thieving. 1 click pickpocketing should just be in the game (minus black jacking) in my opinion.
@@LOLDM me and quite a few others used open rs to spam left click black-jack 91 thieving on iron, it' STILL aids with a cheat client lmfao - i generally dont cheat or consider myself a rule-breaker but this was 1 time i definitely wasn't taking the hard route. No ban.
jagex can come up with a million new mechanics for leagues but cant fix click options for dead npcs this needs to be first on the priority list for jagex
My least favorite part about cheat clients is how necessary it feels to use them when it comes to high-end PvM. For a little context, I was doing ToB on release on Runelite, have several hundred CM/HMTob kc, and over 1k normal ToB/CoX kc. That being said, the # of groups I've been declined for HMT for because I don't use cheat clients is kind of stupid. The fact that it's more than a one-off occurrence is enough, but more often then not you say "I use Runelite" and you will be replaced. Several top PvM clans won't consider raiding with you unless you're using one of those cheat clients. It's getting to the point where if you really want to be on the cutting edge of most PvM content you're griefing yourself by not using a cheat client. It demotivated me to the point where I made an Ironman and stopped doing PvM, and I anticipate even more bullshit with Raids3. I agree with every point you made in this video, but I wish you brought this up a bit more, as I'm sure it's something you've at least seen at the high-end PvM scene. ESPECIALLY when it comes to doing combat achievement diaries, people mald hard if you aren't using a cheat client.
Totally off topic comment but listening to you talk about all this inferno stuff I don't understand even a little really show how much this game has to offer because for me runescape is just medieval cookie clicker and for you its something totally different and I think that's neat.
In barbarian assault speedrunning, we made the community decision to ban cheat plugins. The argument that cheat clients allow you to push the game to its limits is true, but somewhere like ba, where a left click poison healer option is a cheat client thing, it completely destroys any skill required at all. Thousands of hours of training and strategy outdone by a single plugin. I'm more interested in the fastest times a person can actually achieve, not a lite TAS
I believe the Death Animation plugin will eventually come to the enhanced client as it is developed further and they have a cleaner code. It does make sense to add to the game eventually so I'd imagine it will when they're ready to shut off Java clients
A few J-Mods have publicly stated dead clicks are a "bug" not a "feature" as (ex)Mod Matt K claimed. So it really is a matter of time. I doubt it'll be a plug-in for the new client, just a feature to toggle on/off.
This is the exact same argument as: Why is there a “Are you really sure?” option when removing a mahogany table for the 5000th time? It’s there to be a pain in the ass. Jagex could remove it with virtually no downside, but they choose not to. Welcome to OSRS.
Lmao, they would get rid of it and bam I would accidentally remove something I didn’t want too, and I’d be cussing at them like “why didn’t you ask me?!”
@@lemonaid8678 They could remove the warning for items that took less than 10k in materials to make, or just for tables, or altogether. My point remains.
The downside is it makes the game slightly , slightly , slightly more efficient and slightly higher quality of life. And we all know OSRS players don't like that. Hence why all polls are voted No
A large portion of this video was devoted to talking about an issue that doesn't exist (In inferno). The "ignore dead NPCs" option exists in the allowed version of "NPC Indicators". Any NPCs in your right click list that are dead will be yellow, any that are still alive will be whatever color you selected for the NPCs. Personally i used this for nibblers
I couldn’t agree more with this whole thing. There are some things that just make the game more attractive to all people and skill levels in the game… most people wouldn’t think most of these things given (especially socket) are remotely close to cheating.
That dead npc click option thing is exactly something I was wondering a year ago, I even messaged Ash about it and asked if they would ever fix this. The answer was "maybe in the new client". So I dunno if we should get our hopes up
I PK a ton. It makes no sense to me that the spec orb doesn't work as it does everywhere else in the game. On top of that weapons don't all have spec bars (it's so glaringly bad in LMS, you can't 1 tick a DDS spec from an rcb or ahrims staff unless you glitch the interfaces by faking your whip before the prior bolt or barrage). The only people super vocal against it are the good pkers in max gear that just don't want noobs to have a fighting chance when they're in cheap gear. The same goes for freeze timers. I have no issue counting attacks between barrages so I know when to refreeze my opponent. So many noobs struggle with it (go multi pking for a great example of bad pkers struggling with immunity and getting gapped). The noobs could seriously benefit from them and it would do a lot towards decreasing the skill gap and making PKing more user friendly. New players to NHing get their heads specced off with melee so often when they think their opponent is frozen but actually isn't. As it is PVP mechanics are super arcane semi-hidden knowledge you can't find on the wiki, it's all mostly word of mouth and experience that can teach you how to best fight other players. The old school runescape player base is declining, the game is not good. Some pvp private servers are thriving, PVE focused players are moving on other games. The vanilla client is super clunky dog water that turns off new players. On top of that it isn't related to your video, but busy servers on the weekend can't even handle difficult combat content, there's so many stuff where lagging for 3 ticks will have you dying.
I could totally be wrong here but even after doing Clues on my Ironman, I don't believe Clues would be the way they are without a third party client telling you everything instantly, Clues are pretty discouraging unless some of the few who have the intellect for Jagex's brainpower & those who solve Grandmaster Quests day 1 lol. Plus from playing on Mobile, Clues are even more annoying as most stuff you can imagine is so it's kind of not shocking at all that Clue rewards are some of the highest priced content in the game purely for Rarity. I'm not saying make them easy so rewards plumet, I'm trying to say make something like the Clue Solver Pluggin part of the games functionality. People would be thrilled at the gambler of clue rewards finally and be more incentived to get hard and harder clue requirements, which I think we should have more Quest related steps but that's my opinion. It would make a otherwise clunky content something fun and challenging feeling and not have you switching back & forth from the Wiki for help for either. Longevity and Health for the game is the goal.❤️
Really liked the video, as always. However, this video could really have used some visual tips: showing the CG demibosses death animation, or some snaps from the cheat clients themselves. Great seeing this kind of discution in the community. Keep it up
The entire point of not showing any snaps from the cheat client is so A. People can't find them and B. He doesn't use them. Did we watch the same video?
@@andrewtross well, I believe so. Showing NPCs death animations or the content in case is not the same as advertising it. He is talking extensively about them. Showing whats going on instead of just telling it is a commom practice in good media making. Even if you don't show the cheat ifself. Show a run of Inferno and trying to click the death mobs. This is the video with most relevance to the community he has made and yet one of the most boring to watch. But I understand this concern as to endorse the cheat client.
@@gpeixe yes I agree with you, if you judge him for his intentions it's a safe bet he didn't include them because it was extra work. Tasty has put out some of the highest quality content in the game, but I find he's very hit or miss. I have no idea what the message of this video was, for most of it I thought it was going to be satire and then it wasn't. I feel like he wasn't very inspired writing this. Whenever he is inspired it really shines. But I feel like this video was just to keep a video on record, so that there wouldn't be a big gap in his channel. After having some time to think about it, I sort of changed my mind. I think I was being a bit harsh and it does seem thought out. I think visuals are a very good point, it is definitely what the video is missing.
Have always found the dead NPC thing annoying. Recently found out the default NPC Indicators plugin includes an option to toggle the text colour of the dead NPC during death animation so you can right click the alive mob without fail.
Even with the color change of dead npcs, in the inferno if you right click on the same tick as you barrage the nibblers, the list will not be updated with which npcs are dead and which ones are not, so unfortunately even with that runelite plugin it doesn’t guarantee that you will click an alive npc every time
@@LammenHond technically the shaman is only raised to a level above the ceiling, above the spot it currently jumped, its just suspended in space until it jumps down and lands. this is a dev issue with the npc skill interaction because the mob never leaves the area. not technically dead but still targetable, like zulrah for the first 30 seconds after it moves to a new position before becoming attackable, there are many instances of this problem in the game and its incredibly frustrating for players
@@ryanweller6262 Even a cheat client couldn't fix that situation. The monster is still alive when you rightclicked. RS3 has rightclick menus that are updateable (like the options change without you having to right click again) maybe that could fix the issue?
6:03 I was trying to find a spot where the circles in the reflections on his glasses line up with his eyeballs to look silly. This was the best I could find.
I’ve never really though about the death animation click options before but you’re spot on about them. The really annoying one that comes to mind is the Red nylos piles at Maiden.
Yh people are stubborn to use clients due to " you can get banned " when its just overlays and really like 80% of all PvMers uses it lol. Most of the plugins are nice, dont forget socket healing, socket world hop or never log. Or the AOA Additions. All of the pbs done with client, cuz there is no way u can do it with vanilla Runelite
Good discussion about cheat clients for speedrunning TOB. There is a lot of limit testing that most people won't even think about doing had someone had not found out mechanics through cheat clients such as P2 verzik nylo popping with boak tiles, tick counter for changing nylos in nylo room, exploding mechanic, and bloat turning timers with pneck calculation for how long it goes down. It's obviously not a necessity, but without it most people off client wouldn't know what to do without a person who has used a client explain what they should do.
The disappearing npc thing really spoke to me. I remember playing back before old school or EOC when there were no death animations. Monsters disappeared and their loot fell on the ground. The day they implemented the change I was so annoyed that it now took longer for my green dragon loot to hit the ground and that this NPC I could no longer attack was just in the way. It was a bad design when they very first implemented it and I hope this video helps push the current team at Jagex to fix this terrible interaction.
I remember complaining about this and getting attacked personally like I was this big crybaby for not wanting to watch an extended animation before getting my loot
While I agree that it definitely needs fixed, but a lot of you are forgetting that the games engine has issues when it comes to things like this, due to the tick system being so spread out, sometimes youd wait 3-4 ticks for the monster to actually die. It was a tiny bit faster than what we have today, but there are also a lot of death animations that are no longer than this wait period, therefore didnt change looting from them. They were introduced initially to help take up the space between when an npc hit 0 hp, and when their loot would appear on the ground. SO, while I agree with clicking through dead npc's, dont forget to take the tick system into account,, and remember EVERYTHING about where we came from. Very rarely, the game would freeze for 2-3 seconds after killing a monster, just to make the npc disappear and put your loot on the ground XD weve come a long way, and if we stick aroundd, theres still a long ways to go.
seeing other people's spec's is already a feature added in to runelite by default. If you and a friend turn on the 'party' plugin and invite eachother to a party, you can then see their hp, specs hit, and i think even ping tiles to eachother.
Something important about people who use cheat clients, a lot of it is just to stay on the same level playingfield as others who use them. Speedrunning tob basically requires some plugins to get a competitive time. Even stuff like aoe indicators and tick counters are advantages that aren't needed but help and if you arent using it you're making the game harder for yourself compared to someone who is using it. At the end of the day I don't blame the players for "cheating" as much as I blame jagex for not enforcing their rules. I think it would be great if everyone was forced onto a level playing field, I hope jagex can find a way to make that happen.
How many people do you think would cheat in sports or on an exam or anything else if it were easy to do and never punished? If Joe uses an AOE indicator for years without punishment and dies less as a result can you really blame Bob for following suit and doing the same? I say no.
I would actually love if they took away click options on dead npcs, save me like 45 seconds every corrupted gauntlet. I've always complained about the dead options and i'm glad someone else brought it up 👍
Unless you're on mobile, you can loot in CG tick-lossless even as it currently stands. In no world, on PC, should you be losing 10 seconds, let alone 45 seconds
I agree that something like socket should be in the game only if it gives information about HP, Prayer, Special Attack %, Specs landed, etc. Information that doesn’t take away from the core MMO aspects like something that a soteseg maze plugin does. If something takes away from what an MMO is like removing the need for communication between your teammates because a plug-in gives you the information anyways, then that’s horrible for the game. OSRS already has a lot of solo aspects, content that requires communication and cooperation fills a gap in the game. That isn’t to say that group content is better than solo content, it just fills a gap. At the end of the day, OSRS is about options and the freedom to do what you want. If the game isn’t satisfying for a group/team content perspective, people won’t play.
The death animation removal is oddly specified specifically by Jagex as against the rules for 3rd party clients: "Removes dead NPC entities or the minimenu options from them" Runelite could have this feature if Jagex changed their minds about this one. Techically NPC hider does remove death animations just not only death animations.
Dead NPC red clicks are so annoying in corrupted gauntlet when trying to loot the drops. I'd love to see them removed. Also why don't we have a permanent spec bar already in the main game when ppl are able to have it with cheat clients anyway? Like what's the harm being able to click spec 1 tick earlier without swapping 2 spec bar items in a tick to be able to do it.
Jagex mods are clowns when it comes to making rules and even more so when enforcing them. It’s perfectly fine to mark tiles in rouges den and it’s fine to use quest helper which just highlights every step of the way, but you’re banned if you change destroy to left click when training construction. They’re going to pick and choose things that make no sense, just as they always have.
I dunno, some weapons not having spec bars is nice for pvp. It balances out weapons and increases skill required. For example, bofa not having a spec bar is actually a good thing. The weapon is insanely strong for pvp, having to run a staff of the dead and to a mage fakie or switch to staff between hits so that you can 1 tick spec out of that sort of balances it out. It also makes certain weapons viable that otherwise wouldn't be. Ivandis flail for zerkers, Bis brid staff for 60 attack because of the spec bar alone.
You don't lose time in CG when looting if you do it right, regardless of animation. If anything, it can prevent a T2 NPC from hitting you whilst looting a demi, though that isn't really a big plus lol. And huge no to permanent spec bar. By that logic of 'people are able to do with cheat clients anyway', let's just introduce every single broken cheat plugin into the game.
NPC indicators plugin on RL allows you to change the colour of the right click text on dead NPCs. What I use as a temp option for things like barraging crabs in maiden until they eventually fix this
!!!!!!!!! for the NPC pile with one+ NPCs in death animations, there's a way to know which are still alive in vanilla runelite. If you add npc tags and make the names of the npc highlight a diff color on right click, the ones in death animation will NOT BE HIGHLIGHTED A DIFFERENT COLOR. So you can easily see which ones still have HP.... Cheers.
At the end of the day, osrs is a game, I love it and I play way too much of it, but while I never do anything that can be considered cheating in the game, I don't exactly hold a grudge towards people that do. This is a game that will make you do the same thing for hundreds of hours to get level 99 in agility or mining or construction! I can't get mad at a person that decides to make this process enjoyable for themselves. We're all here because we love the game, and if we're all going to be honest with ourselves, the runelite client does not feel like runescape classic felt but we all use it. If the game is to survive it has to adapt without alienating the playerbase, and we as a playerbase are evidently adaptable to a runelite version of runescape, I don't see a problem with making these changes in the game, the runescape community is going to be whining either way, and it's going to continue playing this game while whining about it.
In my genuine opinion. Shift click walk SHOULD be a feature within the game. It has no other effect rather than asking for a walk command when clicking??
@@Iced9 i think they more so mean like when u wanna walk under a player in pvp kinda dumb i have to right click and find the walk here option rather then hold shift and click to walk/run under them. kinda like a force move if uve played diablo or poe
@@Iced9 yeah bro, it's really nice when you need to path under a left click option. Another example would be when people use to make Bandos 'right click only' so they can left click under him to hide
I’m not a fan of cheat clients but I do see why people use them. Nobody gets banned for using them. Some streamers openly play on them. The only thing I care about is the hide death animations which I would greatly love to have on runelite. I agree most of the other stuff is just against the spirit of the game, good video thanks for covering the topic dad.
It's very interesting that communities in OSRS, WoW, FFXIV, and Lost Ark are all having these conversations right now around client add-ons. Very different how each game deals with it too.
That description of client side info could be cleared up by Jagex by clarifying this rule: "Which gives summary information about a group of players, such as how many players are attackable and not in your own CC, what prayers they are mostly using, etc" I think this is fairly obvious the spirit behind this rule is for PvP, but Jagex could amend this to allow co-operative PvM usage in raids.
The triple jad guitar hero plugin you mentioned is actually used through the entire inferno. So you never need to know what's attacking you the entire time. It also shows all safe spots at all times lol
In the example about the Soteseg maze, you are right that that is their reason, but in that case it should not be allowed. In that case, you are not pushing the game to the limit, you are changing what the game is.
Agreed with everything but the part about Socket I don't quiet follow. How does knowing if someone is venged, their spec hit / what number it hit make the game more complex? If anything communicating all that information through voice/chat is more engaging and adds another layer of difficulty. You can do some quick maths from numbers etc and try and figure out what weapon may be best and would be way more advanced than a software doing it for you no?
I'm late as hell to the discussion. I am a former client-er. I did about 175 ToBs without client and about 65 with client. My main arguments are the following: I did not mind the optimization with a party system that socket gave, I think the maze display function was a bit cheesy yes but it was very funny to watch your "Maze Runner" just run it down mid like a tilted Jungler. I think some of the clients brought up legitimate helpful plugins, eg: Visual Tick indicators on bosses. It made ToB extremely easy and I can also see why it brought down the integrity of the game solely due to the fact it doesn't help you learn how to count ticks without an indicator. This comment comes post Client Nuke but I think plugins like Socket like you said could provide nuanced PVM instances and help further push the boundries of the game. Needless to say, no matter the argument made for or against clients and gray area plugins, there will always be some sort of nay say from either the casual community or the HLC. Last but not least, I think if in the future Jagex allowed plugins similar to a visual tick counter or Socket, it would lead to developing a more refined PVM system that is much more tick accurate.
None of the content in osrs is designed around having status bars for your teammates. It isn't necessary and it would look incredibly stupid with the osrs art style. Currently the only things displayed outside the ui in vanilla is healthbars. And It isn't skillful to have information displayed on screen for you in a team encounter, what is skillful is sharing relevant information with your teammates so you can all make good decisions. Socket completely changes the look, feel, strategies and gameplay of the game in a horrible way. I would never have started playing osrs if it looked that unlike the runescape I grew up with.
Probably the most frustrating thing about cheat clients, is that they massively warped the times required for zuk helm, especially in tob. It resulted in a friend of mine being unable to find teams for the grandmaster times, because he refused to use client
@@imBriz you can for sure do it, but the majority of speed players at raids require you to have socket to join their party, which makes it harder to find a group for those tasks. That is what makes it especially hard instead of the skill of the player.
runelite highlights dead npc options as red anyway? Don't see the issue. You know which nibbler is dead because the only alive ones have yellow options.
"Party" plugin on RL does the exact same thing socket does- you can see party member's inventories, prayer, spec bars etc. just doesn't share stuff that only they would see on the screan, like the maze obviously.
I'm super glad you left this comment, I had no idea this existed and it's so nice to have. I can't find a setting that shows spec bars and inventories, how do you enable that?
@@irisosrs No you need to see if specs miss within 1 tick as its a 1 tick decisison to respec as backup. Or if only 1 hammer hit at sote all dwh backup dwh instead of scything or bgsing. If 2 dwh hit and only 40 bgs yeh might aswell send the backup bgs instantly. We have folk do maze without client however the specs are isnanely important. I know wr runners that dont use client but use socket for the specs.
I think the shadows for falling rocks at Olm and flesh at Bloat are terrible assets (eye cancer) not that anybody struggles too much with them (beyond new raiders)..but if a game is going to challenge you it should do that in an appealing or fun way.
I would rather be banned than hacked. If they ban me for using another client then I will just move on and spend my time playing better games. I will use which ever client I want to play the game until I can no longer log in. Clients are fine IMO up until you start to ruin the experience for other players like ahk scripts/ auto pray swapping anything to give you the edge over another PLAYER in game. I do not feel bad I learned tob with shitlite before checking out the "cheating clients" and while of course it gives you an edge it does not turn you into woox. Also I myself would prefer if they went after the bot farms, RWT groups and bug abusers before they come for actually players having fun. I have been playing my account since OSRS was released and was never banned for using other clients which was before runelite was the preferred client. JUST MY OPINION
Anything that gives you " an edge" can still directly effect other players though its not that simple....you get faster times killing things etc, it manipulates the market prices of items which in turn affects other players
This reminds of of that insane new cheat client that came out not too long ago. Dang it I can’t remember the name does anyone else remember it. it’s on the tip of my tongue
I am no where good enough for any input. But I believe that any good game takes the knowledge and advice from the highest end game players and uses their advice to actually make the game better. League of Legends balances their champions based on the highest ranked player. So maybe jagex should listen to the zuk helm holders
Huge difference between cheat clients using plugins to show you when a boss phase change is coming soon(based on HP which you can just memorize anyway) and having it tell you what to pray and where to stand. Obviously when a plugin tells you how to play that's cheating but when a plugin is just making something a bit more obvious I'm not so sure I'd say it's ban worthy
@@CL_AM imagine taking the time to look that up. Also I never said I was better than him I just think home boy is funny how he brings it up every video. Relax fella
@@willonom bahahaha he absolutely went out of his way to try to roast you. Tasty is probably infinitely better at inferno then everyone here, Zixyi is just laughing that he repeats it often :D man lighten up
I was always looking for the death animation plug-in on RuneLite after watching an aatykon stream of him doing the inferno. Could never find it and didn’t even think it was a “cheat plug-in”.
If you want my opinion, you should remove the "life" whisper from your intro, or if you really want it to say tastylife, just rerecord it so it doesn't have a pause between the 2 words.
the issue with socket: content would get developed around this feature. That means 'if you don't like it just don't do it' equals 'nope you cannot do this raid no more'. Thats NOT a good idea - at all. People should not be forced to use this stuff to complete future content.
Should address the community who pays venes to play their accounts, especially ironman accounts. I was shocked to hear how common this is and it's pretty depressing. Jagex not enforcing the 'Account sharing" rule has had a lot of bad consequences
They haven't enforced this rule in YEARS They made the statement "So long as you aren't acc sharing to compete in highscores, it's acceptable." Which means nothing....
this reminds me of the prayer reordering plugin which was a default plugin when runelite was released. another one of those plugins that really does no harm to anyone and seems like something that would be a vanilla feature of the game (similar to moving around spells/abilities and buttons in other mmos). the same goes with tick countdowns for boss abilities like Tasty mentioned. these are all things that runescape should absolutely just have. it’s not about “trying to be like other mmo’s”, it’s more so just that these things are essentially baseline mmo features that would make the game feel more intuitive and familiar to new players (as Tasty also mentioned).
as a techno blasting pvp-er, the most annoying thing is people having freeze timers. you can easily spot them since the people using them will pray melee on the tick they're unfrozen. The second most annoying thing is playing legit, and getting called an ahker by actual cheaters. EDIT: To clarify for the people who don't pk, your own freeze timer IS on runelite and is 100% fine, information showing if/when your opponent is (un)frozen, is against the game rules.
@@Detested edited my comment, to clarify, I was talking about information on the opponent being frozen or not/how long. That's against the rules and not on runelite
While mainly I agree with a lot of the things being said, I have some things to add. First the question of what is a cheat plugin? While Jagex has made some statements about what they consider cheat plugins, they are really vague. I myself would draw the line at plugins that makes decisions for you. This would contain plugins like inferno prayer plugin and demonic gorilla plugin. But then again, isn't the questing plugin and clue plugin kind of the same? Here the plugin says exactly what to do, so you don't really have to play the game anymore. This is of course just my take on the line. Next, we have the question about information gained from other players(In this video explained as socket). Is it alright to get your party members' exact hp information? Is it alright to get your party members exact hits with specific weapons? Where is the line exactly? In my own opinion, the line should be drawn at the information that the game gives you. It should be up to you as a team to compile this information and make use of it. If Jagex thinks you need to see the information of your teammates' hp they will show it to you, just like the health blobs in TOB. I see a lot of comments about "sockets" being a nice QOL. In my opinion, dumbing the game down isn't QOL. Thirdly the hide death animation plugins. This I'm both forth and against. I'm forth it since as you stated the way the game properly should have been designed. But I'm against it since it is a clear advantage compared to if you didn't use it. Then again this argument could be used against most plugins. As a side note, the term socket is a technology from computer science, that as you said here is being used for connecting clients. If the information shared between these was added to the game. It wouldn't be by the use of sockets, but just as data from the Jagex servers.
Quest helper isn’t the same as inferno prayer. Inferno is designed to be end game super challenging content whilst quests are early game boring chore. Secondly, inferno plugin is a straight up macro to swap your prayers.
@@Moz29 You could look at it like that, I only pointed out they are plugins that remove complexity from the game. Which in my opinion is too much. There are more than one inferno plugin. Some are auto pray, others are just visual guidance for prayer use, like the "guitar hero" one discussed in this video. In my opinion autopray is straight out botting and the visual guidance for prayer is too much since it makes it so the player doesn't have to make decisions.
I thought this was a mild inconvenience when bursting nechryaels and didn't even consider the annoyance it could be elsewhere. Thank you for bringing this up
Thank God someone is bringing this talk to light. I always thought the death animation in osrs was dumb, but I was to scared of getting hacked or banned if I use the (Unknown) clients for that feature specifically lol
I'm glad this isn't just some braindead cheating = bad video. I really don't respect that 90% of pvm is based off using 1 of 3 prayers or playing some metronome minigame with yourself to know when to switch between those 3 prayers. I just can't imagine if the WoW community had this same weird view of addons.
This might be completely idiotic but maybe something like the maze plugin feature would be locked behind combat achievements, for example if your whole team has all the master tier combat achievements for Cox done, they would have the option to see the maze since you've essentially proven you don't need it as a crutch, but it would just remove some of the nuisance of the encounter. Or have a scroll like drop that's only on the loot table after a certain amount of kc. something.
Definitely need to do something about the death animation null clicks and all the other null clicks in the game. You can see the clunkiness in the game engine all over the place.
Illegal Plugins that have been made legal given time: Right click attack for clan mates Spell book filters Shift to walk Never log out (set fps plugin to 1) Extended zoom Interacting/clicking beyond 15 square radius around the player Detached camera Left click pickpocket (attack options update) Freeze timers on self Various menu entry swaps
Im curious if OSRS took a stance against clients like RS3 does. RS3 only allows you to use the NXT client (official client) and any additional community made tools (clue solvers, price checkers, etc) is done through a program called "Alt 1 Toolkit" which is an overlay on top of the official RS3 client. It reads the screen - rather then being the client itself. If OSRS were to go that route, then obviously the official OSRS client would need major major improvements
swap out clicking for hotkey gear switching, there i said it. lowers skill gap between players and at the same time increases skill cap in both skilling, pvm and pvp. way more immersive and engaging, and combats ahk completely.
Very interesting video. Got yourself a new sub :) One thing I’m interested about is you said that your discussion doesn’t apply to PvP, but it strikes me that plugins like Freeze Timers, used in PvP, are in a similar grey area to what you talked about. Iirc according to Jagex’s statement on third-party clients, any plugin showing opponents freeze timers is against the rules, but plugins showing your own freeze timers are not. In fact, own freeze timer is part of the vanilla Runelite client. It strikes me that always knowing when you’re about to be unfrozen is a significant advantage in PvP - but this also raises the question of why a heads up display featuring freeze timers isn’t part of the standard game. I don’t play other mmos but presumably things like this are pretty standard?
ive been using cheat clients for years since they first started, but not for stupid overpowered stuff. in my personal opinion jagex's decisions on what is cheat and what is not is confusing, i dont know how they're going to control it from Friday, im maxed, the only way they're going to control it is move to C++ Like RS3 and Close all the Sockets, ( not 1 ban btw) they're calling bluff on sayin they control it) most of the current community r going on as normal, as jagex relying on people stopping to find out who has been using them through authentication tokens.
The dying npcs is another thing I've been using since probably 2009 sometime during the whole trade limit on the original RuneScape. I used to make money killing black dragons in taverly dungeon and often times people would either try to crash or every world was full. Anyways you had to right click to attack them due to their combat level and a lot of people would bring air strike so they could left click. However, if you right click an npc as they are dying and hold it as soon as they spawn left click the attack option and it will attack that npc. I would use this because I knew casting a spell was slightly slower than shooting a bolt or at least when competing for a npc in single combat areas.
som things i can agree with, some its meh. im a pker, tbh i couldnt care less about end game pvm. my problem is the fact that i go into a place risking $ and the people have legit so many advantages with these clients. auto pray/gear swaps, equiping a staff doesnt require a manual click of the spell, highlighted attacks, tb timers, re organized prayer/spellbooks. if im gonna fight people, its gotta be fair and right now its a landslide.
As a very new player (Not even a few months), I've consistently wondered why there are click options for dead NPCs. I've red clicked dead monkeys in the Baba Challenge Room and ended up hit by Volatiles or unable to correct bad movement and ended up running into the venom paths because of it
The first 1,000 people to use the link or my code tastylife0522 will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/tastylife05221
nah
unsubbed on twitch for you taking mod away on twitch for 0 reason then trying to say i was never mod. took a few months away from my pc to take care of a friend who just got paralyzed in a motorcycle accident. wasted 50k points gambling for mod just to come back from that to not be one. what a guy. was my favorite streamer and content creator but now Tpapa will be after that encounter.
dont tempt me with a good time
gotta fix those glares in the glasses my boi. shits distracting. Solid video though sir
WITH CANDOR, KISS YOUR OWN ASS AND GET GOOD AT RIGHT CLICKING SUCKS TO SUCK; GOT PRECISION? YIKES NOOB PROBABLY CAN'T BRID KARATE KID NICE HOODIE
The demi boss thing from CG is the first thing I thought of with the dumb dead npc clicks lol
Same
Yeah! So annoying 😡
Bro exactly. Lmao.
The game registers that time as the npc still being alive.. you know what i mean if youve every soloed kree and the ranger respawns 15 ticks after kree is ‘dead’ - meaning 0hp
first time i did gauntlet i thought that was a bug, and it did make me angry haha
This is a comment. People will see it. UA-cam algorithm. Everyone laughs
Ha
Ha
Hao?
haHA
ho
Broooo the new post this morning says they are adding the no death animation plug-in !!! Thanks tasty !!!
It's nice to see someone other than myself preaching this topic. Very good video boss!
ayooo
The Legend himself
King have my babies
ditterbitter is better than you ho
Peach long enough and someone will hear lol
I’ve died at vorkath after casting crumble undead and then trying to click away from a fireball and not moving because I’m clicking on the dead zombified spawn. It’s super annoying.
First time at vork?
you do realize that vorkath cant attack while his zombie spawn is alive right? wheres the fireball coming from mate. the spawn has to die before he can attack again. there was no fireball bro
@@BloodySeranade I know he can’t attack while it is alive… that’s what I said. If I kill it with crumble undead and his first attack following the spawn is a fireball, and the spawn is still in death animation, you’re unable to move if you are accidentally clicking on the spawn that is dead but has not yet disappeared
@@Stasthagod all that area and you click on the zombie 🤦🏻♂️ but I get what you’re saying bud
Definitely agree with the dead mob click options; the first time I had it be an issue was in the Inferno, where every second matters.
After seeing the cheat that despawns mob death animations 3 or 4 ticks sooner, it was just baffling that such a huge UI issue is still in the game.
Praise Runelite for laying the ground work for Jagex accepting 3rd party features.
Yeah I'd rather use runelite because Jagex cannot fix or add things in the game that actually makes them money! Does anyone trust them to fix things or add stuff to a client if they get rid of the competition?
LOL
Praise OSbuddy you mean
1 click construction and 1 click pickpocketing are worth mentioning, the only reason a lot of people install cheat clients
i don't think 1 click pickpocketing is an issue. Not including Black jacking because multiple clicks are the point. When you can just spam click ardy knights and master farmers, but have to go right click and choose pickpocket for like elves, vyres, and even men at level 1 thieving. 1 click pickpocketing should just be in the game (minus black jacking) in my opinion.
@@LOLDM rs3 made thieving more dynamic with safecracking, i feel like just being forced to click a shitton for skilling is lazy and lame
Ardy knights are already one click. If you want better xp rates then u gotta click more times. It's super simple guys.
When hes talking about pickpocketing it's about somthing like Vyres for blood shards or elves for Crystal shard
Everybody can left click ardy knights.
@@LOLDM me and quite a few others used open rs to spam left click black-jack 91 thieving on iron, it' STILL aids with a cheat client lmfao - i generally dont cheat or consider myself a rule-breaker but this was 1 time i definitely wasn't taking the hard route. No ban.
jagex can come up with a million new mechanics for leagues but cant fix click options for dead npcs this needs to be first on the priority list for jagex
Only thing this video could've benefitted is some example clips, otherwise good bringing more attention to third party clients
Anyone else severely distracted by the yellow light rings in Tasty's glasses the whole video?
I didn’t spend the 20 minutes staring into his eyes…. So no >.>
@@bbjoy763 Staring at his lips instead?
Customizable menu entry swaps should also be allowed, as long as they're static and don't change based on NPC/item state or player location.
My least favorite part about cheat clients is how necessary it feels to use them when it comes to high-end PvM. For a little context, I was doing ToB on release on Runelite, have several hundred CM/HMTob kc, and over 1k normal ToB/CoX kc. That being said, the # of groups I've been declined for HMT for because I don't use cheat clients is kind of stupid. The fact that it's more than a one-off occurrence is enough, but more often then not you say "I use Runelite" and you will be replaced.
Several top PvM clans won't consider raiding with you unless you're using one of those cheat clients. It's getting to the point where if you really want to be on the cutting edge of most PvM content you're griefing yourself by not using a cheat client. It demotivated me to the point where I made an Ironman and stopped doing PvM, and I anticipate even more bullshit with Raids3.
I agree with every point you made in this video, but I wish you brought this up a bit more, as I'm sure it's something you've at least seen at the high-end PvM scene. ESPECIALLY when it comes to doing combat achievement diaries, people mald hard if you aren't using a cheat client.
Thanks for this comment. I am having the same frustrations right now and it’s nice to know I’m not alone.
Totally off topic comment but listening to you talk about all this inferno stuff I don't understand even a little really show how much this game has to offer because for me runescape is just medieval cookie clicker and for you its something totally different and I think that's neat.
In barbarian assault speedrunning, we made the community decision to ban cheat plugins. The argument that cheat clients allow you to push the game to its limits is true, but somewhere like ba, where a left click poison healer option is a cheat client thing, it completely destroys any skill required at all. Thousands of hours of training and strategy outdone by a single plugin. I'm more interested in the fastest times a person can actually achieve, not a lite TAS
can u tell bob lazarr that LOL
I believe the Death Animation plugin will eventually come to the enhanced client as it is developed further and they have a cleaner code. It does make sense to add to the game eventually so I'd imagine it will when they're ready to shut off Java clients
They would likely just remove the dead clicks entirely instead of making it a 'plugin'
@@HalfDuck i would say that is likely the best option for them
A few J-Mods have publicly stated dead clicks are a "bug" not a "feature" as (ex)Mod Matt K claimed. So it really is a matter of time.
I doubt it'll be a plug-in for the new client, just a feature to toggle on/off.
a matter of time? cleaner code? haha
@@issadoobie5624 okay
This is the exact same argument as:
Why is there a “Are you really sure?” option when removing a mahogany table for the 5000th time?
It’s there to be a pain in the ass.
Jagex could remove it with virtually no downside, but they choose not to.
Welcome to OSRS.
At 5001 times it doesn't show anymore. (Just talking crap) On a serious note, I totally agree with your comment. Well said.
Lmao, they would get rid of it and bam I would accidentally remove something I didn’t want too, and I’d be cussing at them like “why didn’t you ask me?!”
@@lemonaid8678 They could remove the warning for items that took less than 10k in materials to make, or just for tables, or altogether. My point remains.
The downside is it makes the game slightly , slightly , slightly more efficient and slightly higher quality of life. And we all know OSRS players don't like that. Hence why all polls are voted No
@@TruthTeller00 or just let you turn off the warning for certain items
A large portion of this video was devoted to talking about an issue that doesn't exist (In inferno). The "ignore dead NPCs" option exists in the allowed version of "NPC Indicators".
Any NPCs in your right click list that are dead will be yellow, any that are still alive will be whatever color you selected for the NPCs.
Personally i used this for nibblers
I couldn’t agree more with this whole thing. There are some things that just make the game more attractive to all people and skill levels in the game… most people wouldn’t think most of these things given (especially socket) are remotely close to cheating.
Agreed
That dead npc click option thing is exactly something I was wondering a year ago, I even messaged Ash about it and asked if they would ever fix this. The answer was "maybe in the new client". So I dunno if we should get our hopes up
I couldn't focus on anything but the "don't talk to me or my son ever again dog sticker"
I PK a ton. It makes no sense to me that the spec orb doesn't work as it does everywhere else in the game. On top of that weapons don't all have spec bars (it's so glaringly bad in LMS, you can't 1 tick a DDS spec from an rcb or ahrims staff unless you glitch the interfaces by faking your whip before the prior bolt or barrage). The only people super vocal against it are the good pkers in max gear that just don't want noobs to have a fighting chance when they're in cheap gear.
The same goes for freeze timers. I have no issue counting attacks between barrages so I know when to refreeze my opponent. So many noobs struggle with it (go multi pking for a great example of bad pkers struggling with immunity and getting gapped). The noobs could seriously benefit from them and it would do a lot towards decreasing the skill gap and making PKing more user friendly. New players to NHing get their heads specced off with melee so often when they think their opponent is frozen but actually isn't. As it is PVP mechanics are super arcane semi-hidden knowledge you can't find on the wiki, it's all mostly word of mouth and experience that can teach you how to best fight other players.
The old school runescape player base is declining, the game is not good. Some pvp private servers are thriving, PVE focused players are moving on other games. The vanilla client is super clunky dog water that turns off new players. On top of that it isn't related to your video, but busy servers on the weekend can't even handle difficult combat content, there's so many stuff where lagging for 3 ticks will have you dying.
I could totally be wrong here but even after doing Clues on my Ironman, I don't believe Clues would be the way they are without a third party client telling you everything instantly, Clues are pretty discouraging unless some of the few who have the intellect for Jagex's brainpower & those who solve Grandmaster Quests day 1 lol.
Plus from playing on Mobile, Clues are even more annoying as most stuff you can imagine is so it's kind of not shocking at all that Clue rewards are some of the highest priced content in the game purely for Rarity. I'm not saying make them easy so rewards plumet, I'm trying to say make something like the Clue Solver Pluggin part of the games functionality. People would be thrilled at the gambler of clue rewards finally and be more incentived to get hard and harder clue requirements, which I think we should have more Quest related steps but that's my opinion.
It would make a otherwise clunky content something fun and challenging feeling and not have you switching back & forth from the Wiki for help for either. Longevity and Health for the game is the goal.❤️
Really liked the video, as always. However, this video could really have used some visual tips: showing the CG demibosses death animation, or some snaps from the cheat clients themselves.
Great seeing this kind of discution in the community. Keep it up
The entire point of not showing any snaps from the cheat client is so A. People can't find them and B. He doesn't use them. Did we watch the same video?
@@andrewtross well, I believe so. Showing NPCs death animations or the content in case is not the same as advertising it. He is talking extensively about them. Showing whats going on instead of just telling it is a commom practice in good media making. Even if you don't show the cheat ifself. Show a run of Inferno and trying to click the death mobs. This is the video with most relevance to the community he has made and yet one of the most boring to watch. But I understand this concern as to endorse the cheat client.
@@gpeixe yes I agree with you, if you judge him for his intentions it's a safe bet he didn't include them because it was extra work.
Tasty has put out some of the highest quality content in the game, but I find he's very hit or miss. I have no idea what the message of this video was, for most of it I thought it was going to be satire and then it wasn't. I feel like he wasn't very inspired writing this. Whenever he is inspired it really shines. But I feel like this video was just to keep a video on record, so that there wouldn't be a big gap in his channel.
After having some time to think about it, I sort of changed my mind. I think I was being a bit harsh and it does seem thought out. I think visuals are a very good point, it is definitely what the video is missing.
Don't forget the force yellow click option I cba with verzik reds
Have always found the dead NPC thing annoying. Recently found out the default NPC Indicators plugin includes an option to toggle the text colour of the dead NPC during death animation so you can right click the alive mob without fail.
Like purple text? Use death indicator extended
Even with the color change of dead npcs, in the inferno if you right click on the same tick as you barrage the nibblers, the list will not be updated with which npcs are dead and which ones are not, so unfortunately even with that runelite plugin it doesn’t guarantee that you will click an alive npc every time
And not just dead NPCs, Shamans jumping and still having a hitbox when they aren't on screen. NOWHERE.
@@LammenHond technically the shaman is only raised to a level above the ceiling, above the spot it currently jumped, its just suspended in space until it jumps down and lands. this is a dev issue with the npc skill interaction because the mob never leaves the area. not technically dead but still targetable, like zulrah for the first 30 seconds after it moves to a new position before becoming attackable, there are many instances of this problem in the game and its incredibly frustrating for players
@@ryanweller6262 Even a cheat client couldn't fix that situation. The monster is still alive when you rightclicked. RS3 has rightclick menus that are updateable (like the options change without you having to right click again) maybe that could fix the issue?
6:03
I was trying to find a spot where the circles in the reflections on his glasses line up with his eyeballs to look silly. This was the best I could find.
100% agree, dead clicks on dying NPCs is so tilting, I have absolutely no logical explanation for why it should still be in the game.
I’ve never really though about the death animation click options before but you’re spot on about them. The really annoying one that comes to mind is the Red nylos piles at Maiden.
Runelite has an option to change dead NPC's names when right clicked from Yellow Text to Black Text, this helps massively there, should try.
Yh people are stubborn to use clients due to " you can get banned " when its just overlays and really like 80% of all PvMers uses it lol. Most of the plugins are nice, dont forget socket healing, socket world hop or never log. Or the AOA Additions. All of the pbs done with client, cuz there is no way u can do it with vanilla Runelite
There's a default RuneLite plugin called 'Party' that sounds just like the socket plugin you described.
Ye its similar, just so much more difficult to connect to your team.
@@rsplays8890 you literally give them a code to type in and it connects them
@@g_ar_y7959 haven’t used it in ages, use to have to invite the person in discord, most of the time it wouldn’t work
Good discussion about cheat clients for speedrunning TOB. There is a lot of limit testing that most people won't even think about doing had someone had not found out mechanics through cheat clients such as P2 verzik nylo popping with boak tiles, tick counter for changing nylos in nylo room, exploding mechanic, and bloat turning timers with pneck calculation for how long it goes down. It's obviously not a necessity, but without it most people off client wouldn't know what to do without a person who has used a client explain what they should do.
The disappearing npc thing really spoke to me. I remember playing back before old school or EOC when there were no death animations. Monsters disappeared and their loot fell on the ground. The day they implemented the change I was so annoyed that it now took longer for my green dragon loot to hit the ground and that this NPC I could no longer attack was just in the way. It was a bad design when they very first implemented it and I hope this video helps push the current team at Jagex to fix this terrible interaction.
I remember complaining about this and getting attacked personally like I was this big crybaby for not wanting to watch an extended animation before getting my loot
While I agree that it definitely needs fixed, but a lot of you are forgetting that the games engine has issues when it comes to things like this, due to the tick system being so spread out, sometimes youd wait 3-4 ticks for the monster to actually die. It was a tiny bit faster than what we have today, but there are also a lot of death animations that are no longer than this wait period, therefore didnt change looting from them. They were introduced initially to help take up the space between when an npc hit 0 hp, and when their loot would appear on the ground.
SO, while I agree with clicking through dead npc's, dont forget to take the tick system into account,, and remember EVERYTHING about where we came from. Very rarely, the game would freeze for 2-3 seconds after killing a monster, just to make the npc disappear and put your loot on the ground XD weve come a long way, and if we stick aroundd, theres still a long ways to go.
Jagex making the combat achievement tob speed run times based on cheat client times is what really grinds my gears
This is just wrong, tob times are 100% achievable without client. You’re just bad.
Death animations and hotkey walk here should just be in the game
seeing other people's spec's is already a feature added in to runelite by default. If you and a friend turn on the 'party' plugin and invite eachother to a party, you can then see their hp, specs hit, and i think even ping tiles to eachother.
It also doesnt work 80% of the time
Something important about people who use cheat clients, a lot of it is just to stay on the same level playingfield as others who use them. Speedrunning tob basically requires some plugins to get a competitive time. Even stuff like aoe indicators and tick counters are advantages that aren't needed but help and if you arent using it you're making the game harder for yourself compared to someone who is using it.
At the end of the day I don't blame the players for "cheating" as much as I blame jagex for not enforcing their rules.
I think it would be great if everyone was forced onto a level playing field, I hope jagex can find a way to make that happen.
Sounds like a cheaters cheap excuse to ‘justify’ their reasoning.
How many people do you think would cheat in sports or on an exam or anything else if it were easy to do and never punished?
If Joe uses an AOE indicator for years without punishment and dies less as a result can you really blame Bob for following suit and doing the same? I say no.
@@ChucklingAway The lack of enforcement can be interpreted as acceptance of the cheats.
@@cryslacks7608 I don't agree with that logic personally, but I can see the argument that you could make
@@ChucklingAway yeah same
I would actually love if they took away click options on dead npcs, save me like 45 seconds every corrupted gauntlet. I've always complained about the dead options and i'm glad someone else brought it up 👍
Unless you're on mobile, you can loot in CG tick-lossless even as it currently stands. In no world, on PC, should you be losing 10 seconds, let alone 45 seconds
I agree that something like socket should be in the game only if it gives information about HP, Prayer, Special Attack %, Specs landed, etc. Information that doesn’t take away from the core MMO aspects like something that a soteseg maze plugin does. If something takes away from what an MMO is like removing the need for communication between your teammates because a plug-in gives you the information anyways, then that’s horrible for the game. OSRS already has a lot of solo aspects, content that requires communication and cooperation fills a gap in the game. That isn’t to say that group content is better than solo content, it just fills a gap. At the end of the day, OSRS is about options and the freedom to do what you want. If the game isn’t satisfying for a group/team content perspective, people won’t play.
The death animation removal is oddly specified specifically by Jagex as against the rules for 3rd party clients:
"Removes dead NPC entities or the minimenu options from them"
Runelite could have this feature if Jagex changed their minds about this one. Techically NPC hider does remove death animations just not only death animations.
Specified specifically
@@tom-dr8co is that Brett Keane
@@RazorXXTreme yes
@@tom-dr8co oh my
nice to meet you mr Manatee
@@RazorXXTreme one if by land two if by sea, three is for the manatee!
Dead NPC red clicks are so annoying in corrupted gauntlet when trying to loot the drops. I'd love to see them removed. Also why don't we have a permanent spec bar already in the main game when ppl are able to have it with cheat clients anyway? Like what's the harm being able to click spec 1 tick earlier without swapping 2 spec bar items in a tick to be able to do it.
Jagex mods are clowns when it comes to making rules and even more so when enforcing them. It’s perfectly fine to mark tiles in rouges den and it’s fine to use quest helper which just highlights every step of the way, but you’re banned if you change destroy to left click when training construction.
They’re going to pick and choose things that make no sense, just as they always have.
Spec bar on every weapon has been polled in the past
I dunno, some weapons not having spec bars is nice for pvp. It balances out weapons and increases skill required. For example, bofa not having a spec bar is actually a good thing. The weapon is insanely strong for pvp, having to run a staff of the dead and to a mage fakie or switch to staff between hits so that you can 1 tick spec out of that sort of balances it out.
It also makes certain weapons viable that otherwise wouldn't be. Ivandis flail for zerkers, Bis brid staff for 60 attack because of the spec bar alone.
You don't lose time in CG when looting if you do it right, regardless of animation. If anything, it can prevent a T2 NPC from hitting you whilst looting a demi, though that isn't really a big plus lol. And huge no to permanent spec bar. By that logic of 'people are able to do with cheat clients anyway', let's just introduce every single broken cheat plugin into the game.
@@Carl_Brutananadilewski Yeah, both should be banned
NPC indicators plugin on RL allows you to change the colour of the right click text on dead NPCs. What I use as a temp option for things like barraging crabs in maiden until they eventually fix this
!!!!!!!!! for the NPC pile with one+ NPCs in death animations, there's a way to know which are still alive in vanilla runelite. If you add npc tags and make the names of the npc highlight a diff color on right click, the ones in death animation will NOT BE HIGHLIGHTED A DIFFERENT COLOR. So you can easily see which ones still have HP.... Cheers.
At the end of the day, osrs is a game, I love it and I play way too much of it, but while I never do anything that can be considered cheating in the game, I don't exactly hold a grudge towards people that do.
This is a game that will make you do the same thing for hundreds of hours to get level 99 in agility or mining or construction! I can't get mad at a person that decides to make this process enjoyable for themselves. We're all here because we love the game, and if we're all going to be honest with ourselves, the runelite client does not feel like runescape classic felt but we all use it. If the game is to survive it has to adapt without alienating the playerbase, and we as a playerbase are evidently adaptable to a runelite version of runescape, I don't see a problem with making these changes in the game, the runescape community is going to be whining either way, and it's going to continue playing this game while whining about it.
In my genuine opinion. Shift click walk SHOULD be a feature within the game. It has no other effect rather than asking for a walk command when clicking??
what exactly does that do, Shift click and it makes you walk rather than run?
@@Iced9 i think they more so mean like when u wanna walk under a player in pvp kinda dumb i have to right click and find the walk here option rather then hold shift and click to walk/run under them. kinda like a force move if uve played diablo or poe
@@Keyourasa oh I see, that makes sense
@@Iced9 yeah bro, it's really nice when you need to path under a left click option.
Another example would be when people use to make Bandos 'right click only' so they can left click under him to hide
I’m not a fan of cheat clients but I do see why people use them. Nobody gets banned for using them. Some streamers openly play on them. The only thing I care about is the hide death animations which I would greatly love to have on runelite. I agree most of the other stuff is just against the spirit of the game, good video thanks for covering the topic dad.
Hiding dead NPC is an explicitly listed thing on the jagex do not do list for third party clients so Runelite is complaint.
@@redrumze yes thank you I know this lol. That’s why I said I’d love to have it on runelite
@@redrumze Yes that is exactly the problem, it should be on the normal runelite.
@@murderer1105 Not until jagex says it's legal.
@@redrumze You're incredibly dense.
It's very interesting that communities in OSRS, WoW, FFXIV, and Lost Ark are all having these conversations right now around client add-ons. Very different how each game deals with it too.
That description of client side info could be cleared up by Jagex by clarifying this rule:
"Which gives summary information about a group of players, such as how many players are attackable and not in your own CC, what prayers they are mostly using, etc"
I think this is fairly obvious the spirit behind this rule is for PvP, but Jagex could amend this to allow co-operative PvM usage in raids.
Having an no death animation setting would be great.
The triple jad guitar hero plugin you mentioned is actually used through the entire inferno. So you never need to know what's attacking you the entire time. It also shows all safe spots at all times lol
In the example about the Soteseg maze, you are right that that is their reason, but in that case it should not be allowed. In that case, you are not pushing the game to the limit, you are changing what the game is.
Agreed with everything but the part about Socket I don't quiet follow. How does knowing if someone is venged, their spec hit / what number it hit make the game more complex? If anything communicating all that information through voice/chat is more engaging and adds another layer of difficulty. You can do some quick maths from numbers etc and try and figure out what weapon may be best and would be way more advanced than a software doing it for you no?
Exactly, there's a level of skill in teamplay/communication that 'socket' removes - I'm not a fan of that.
I'm late as hell to the discussion. I am a former client-er. I did about 175 ToBs without client and about 65 with client. My main arguments are the following: I did not mind the optimization with a party system that socket gave, I think the maze display function was a bit cheesy yes but it was very funny to watch your "Maze Runner" just run it down mid like a tilted Jungler. I think some of the clients brought up legitimate helpful plugins, eg: Visual Tick indicators on bosses. It made ToB extremely easy and I can also see why it brought down the integrity of the game solely due to the fact it doesn't help you learn how to count ticks without an indicator. This comment comes post Client Nuke but I think plugins like Socket like you said could provide nuanced PVM instances and help further push the boundries of the game. Needless to say, no matter the argument made for or against clients and gray area plugins, there will always be some sort of nay say from either the casual community or the HLC. Last but not least, I think if in the future Jagex allowed plugins similar to a visual tick counter or Socket, it would lead to developing a more refined PVM system that is much more tick accurate.
None of the content in osrs is designed around having status bars for your teammates. It isn't necessary and it would look incredibly stupid with the osrs art style. Currently the only things displayed outside the ui in vanilla is healthbars.
And It isn't skillful to have information displayed on screen for you in a team encounter, what is skillful is sharing relevant information with your teammates so you can all make good decisions. Socket completely changes the look, feel, strategies and gameplay of the game in a horrible way. I would never have started playing osrs if it looked that unlike the runescape I grew up with.
Agreed, the skill is in good teamplay and communication. It being done for you takes that away.
Probably the most frustrating thing about cheat clients, is that they massively warped the times required for zuk helm, especially in tob. It resulted in a friend of mine being unable to find teams for the grandmaster times, because he refused to use client
tob would be a ghosttown if clients were banned. Sad but true
I literally had people refuse to run with me, esp 5s gm times because i wasnt in sock. Eventually found some guys and got the helm, just frustrating.
lmao you can get zuk helm without client, tasty legit did it.
@@imBriz so did my friend, who was in Tastys CM runs. Doesn't make it any less bullshit
@@imBriz you can for sure do it, but the majority of speed players at raids require you to have socket to join their party, which makes it harder to find a group for those tasks. That is what makes it especially hard instead of the skill of the player.
runelite highlights dead npc options as red anyway? Don't see the issue. You know which nibbler is dead because the only alive ones have yellow options.
"Party" plugin on RL does the exact same thing socket does- you can see party member's inventories, prayer, spec bars etc. just doesn't share stuff that only they would see on the screan, like the maze obviously.
I'm super glad you left this comment, I had no idea this existed and it's so nice to have. I can't find a setting that shows spec bars and inventories, how do you enable that?
The maze is the only thing good tobbers care about with socket lol
Ye where is the world hop, defence of the boss, dmg counter of partys. U miss alot if u don't know what u talking about lol
It doesn't show useful things like spec counter and veng status though
@@irisosrs No you need to see if specs miss within 1 tick as its a 1 tick decisison to respec as backup. Or if only 1 hammer hit at sote all dwh backup dwh instead of scything or bgsing. If 2 dwh hit and only 40 bgs yeh might aswell send the backup bgs instantly. We have folk do maze without client however the specs are isnanely important. I know wr runners that dont use client but use socket for the specs.
I think the shadows for falling rocks at Olm and flesh at Bloat are terrible assets (eye cancer) not that anybody struggles too much with them (beyond new raiders)..but if a game is going to challenge you it should do that in an appealing or fun way.
99% of zuk slayer helm users use these clients anyways
Tasty did too haha
Who cares dawg
I would rather be banned than hacked. If they ban me for using another client then I will just move on and spend my time playing better games. I will use which ever client I want to play the game until I can no longer log in. Clients are fine IMO up until you start to ruin the experience for other players like ahk scripts/ auto pray swapping anything to give you the edge over another PLAYER in game. I do not feel bad I learned tob with shitlite before checking out the "cheating clients" and while of course it gives you an edge it does not turn you into woox. Also I myself would prefer if they went after the bot farms, RWT groups and bug abusers before they come for actually players having fun. I have been playing my account since OSRS was released and was never banned for using other clients which was before runelite was the preferred client. JUST MY OPINION
Anything that gives you " an edge" can still directly effect other players though its not that simple....you get faster times killing things etc, it manipulates the market prices of items which in turn affects other players
This reminds of of that insane new cheat client that came out not too long ago. Dang it I can’t remember the name does anyone else remember it. it’s on the tip of my tongue
more TastyTalk please 🙏 love the points u made man click options on dead npcs is literally awful lol
I am no where good enough for any input. But I believe that any good game takes the knowledge and advice from the highest end game players and uses their advice to actually make the game better. League of Legends balances their champions based on the highest ranked player. So maybe jagex should listen to the zuk helm holders
this has been a common sense update for years with no action. This video is exactly what we needed for them to bring it to the table
Huge difference between cheat clients using plugins to show you when a boss phase change is coming soon(based on HP which you can just memorize anyway) and having it tell you what to pray and where to stand. Obviously when a plugin tells you how to play that's cheating but when a plugin is just making something a bit more obvious I'm not so sure I'd say it's ban worthy
Buddy loves reminding us he's a self proclaimed inferno professional
If your UA-cam name is your RSN, then Tasty is infinitely better at inferno than you
@@CL_AM imagine taking the time to look that up.
Also I never said I was better than him
I just think home boy is funny how he brings it up every video. Relax fella
@@willonom bahahaha he absolutely went out of his way to try to roast you. Tasty is probably infinitely better at inferno then everyone here, Zixyi is just laughing that he repeats it often :D man lighten up
Tasty is your father
@@willonom It took me 5 seconds to look it up
I was always looking for the death animation plug-in on RuneLite after watching an aatykon stream of him doing the inferno. Could never find it and didn’t even think it was a “cheat plug-in”.
openrs
If you want my opinion, you should remove the "life" whisper from your intro, or if you really want it to say tastylife, just rerecord it so it doesn't have a pause between the 2 words.
If jagex fixes clickable dying animations due to this video it'll be the single most important update since shift-drop.
Congrats, bud. You did it.
Wow. Sae baes rambles are getting really popular.
Socket defeats the need for team communication, which is part of high level pvm in any mmo
No multi lines was.the dumbest thing for me, I literally had to use tile markers myself. Why Jagex?
the issue with socket: content would get developed around this feature. That means 'if you don't like it just don't do it' equals 'nope you cannot do this raid no more'. Thats NOT a good idea - at all. People should not be forced to use this stuff to complete future content.
Should address the community who pays venes to play their accounts, especially ironman accounts. I was shocked to hear how common this is and it's pretty depressing. Jagex not enforcing the 'Account sharing" rule has had a lot of bad consequences
They haven't enforced this rule in YEARS
They made the statement "So long as you aren't acc sharing to compete in highscores, it's acceptable."
Which means nothing....
account sharing is now allowed. runescape services are not.
@@matthewmartin6873 by not enforcing account sharing rules people are free to essentially cheat their accounts though
@@matthewmartin6873 can you send a source for this? Just wondering since I'd like to see this
this reminds me of the prayer reordering plugin which was a default plugin when runelite was released. another one of those plugins that really does no harm to anyone and seems like something that would be a vanilla feature of the game (similar to moving around spells/abilities and buttons in other mmos). the same goes with tick countdowns for boss abilities like Tasty mentioned. these are all things that runescape should absolutely just have. it’s not about “trying to be like other mmo’s”, it’s more so just that these things are essentially baseline mmo features that would make the game feel more intuitive and familiar to new players (as Tasty also mentioned).
can we talk about nylo ticks in the nylo room? why do I have to guess when they'll explode
as a techno blasting pvp-er, the most annoying thing is people having freeze timers. you can easily spot them since the people using them will pray melee on the tick they're unfrozen. The second most annoying thing is playing legit, and getting called an ahker by actual cheaters.
EDIT:
To clarify for the people who don't pk, your own freeze timer IS on runelite and is 100% fine, information showing if/when your opponent is (un)frozen, is against the game rules.
Freeze timer is on runelight????
@@Detested opponent freeze timer is not on runelite
@@Detested only when youre frozen. cheat plug ins let you see when your oppponent is frozen and for how long, which gives you a huge advantage in pvp
@@Detested edited my comment, to clarify, I was talking about information on the opponent being frozen or not/how long. That's against the rules and not on runelite
@@Md-ub6ed ohhh lol
Runelite is a cheat client and wouldn't be allowed more than half of the playerbase didn't use it
No it’s not, all the plugins are checked to make sure they follow the rules of RuneScape.
While mainly I agree with a lot of the things being said, I have some things to add. First the question of what is a cheat plugin? While Jagex has made some statements about what they consider cheat plugins, they are really vague. I myself would draw the line at plugins that makes decisions for you. This would contain plugins like inferno prayer plugin and demonic gorilla plugin. But then again, isn't the questing plugin and clue plugin kind of the same? Here the plugin says exactly what to do, so you don't really have to play the game anymore. This is of course just my take on the line. Next, we have the question about information gained from other players(In this video explained as socket). Is it alright to get your party members' exact hp information? Is it alright to get your party members exact hits with specific weapons? Where is the line exactly? In my own opinion, the line should be drawn at the information that the game gives you. It should be up to you as a team to compile this information and make use of it. If Jagex thinks you need to see the information of your teammates' hp they will show it to you, just like the health blobs in TOB. I see a lot of comments about "sockets" being a nice QOL. In my opinion, dumbing the game down isn't QOL. Thirdly the hide death animation plugins. This I'm both forth and against. I'm forth it since as you stated the way the game properly should have been designed. But I'm against it since it is a clear advantage compared to if you didn't use it. Then again this argument could be used against most plugins.
As a side note, the term socket is a technology from computer science, that as you said here is being used for connecting clients. If the information shared between these was added to the game. It wouldn't be by the use of sockets, but just as data from the Jagex servers.
"It should be up to you as a team to compile this information and make use of it" - agreed 100%, which is why I am against the use of 'sockets' at all
Quest helper isn’t the same as inferno prayer. Inferno is designed to be end game super challenging content whilst quests are early game boring chore. Secondly, inferno plugin is a straight up macro to swap your prayers.
@@Moz29 You could look at it like that, I only pointed out they are plugins that remove complexity from the game. Which in my opinion is too much. There are more than one inferno plugin. Some are auto pray, others are just visual guidance for prayer use, like the "guitar hero" one discussed in this video. In my opinion autopray is straight out botting and the visual guidance for prayer is too much since it makes it so the player doesn't have to make decisions.
we should each get 1 bot account given to us
I thought this was a mild inconvenience when bursting nechryaels and didn't even consider the annoyance it could be elsewhere. Thank you for bringing this up
4:35, jokes on u even if i cant get to triple jads, my guitar hero plugin will help me get there ;)
Thank God someone is bringing this talk to light. I always thought the death animation in osrs was dumb, but I was to scared of getting hacked or banned if I use the (Unknown) clients for that feature specifically lol
Wow you think praising the sun then curling into a fetal position upon dying is dumb?
I'm glad this isn't just some braindead cheating = bad video. I really don't respect that 90% of pvm is based off using 1 of 3 prayers or playing some metronome minigame with yourself to know when to switch between those 3 prayers. I just can't imagine if the WoW community had this same weird view of addons.
This might be completely idiotic but maybe something like the maze plugin feature would be locked behind combat achievements, for example if your whole team has all the master tier combat achievements for Cox done, they would have the option to see the maze since you've essentially proven you don't need it as a crutch, but it would just remove some of the nuisance of the encounter. Or have a scroll like drop that's only on the loot table after a certain amount of kc. something.
Definitely need to do something about the death animation null clicks and all the other null clicks in the game. You can see the clunkiness in the game engine all over the place.
They ask for $15 a month to play this garbage?
Illegal Plugins that have been made legal given time:
Right click attack for clan mates
Spell book filters
Shift to walk
Never log out (set fps plugin to 1)
Extended zoom
Interacting/clicking beyond 15 square radius around the player
Detached camera
Left click pickpocket (attack options update)
Freeze timers on self
Various menu entry swaps
Im curious if OSRS took a stance against clients like RS3 does.
RS3 only allows you to use the NXT client (official client) and any additional community made tools (clue solvers, price checkers, etc) is done through a program called "Alt 1 Toolkit" which is an overlay on top of the official RS3 client. It reads the screen - rather then being the client itself.
If OSRS were to go that route, then obviously the official OSRS client would need major major improvements
swap out clicking for hotkey gear switching, there i said it. lowers skill gap between players and at the same time increases skill cap in both skilling, pvm and pvp. way more immersive and engaging, and combats ahk completely.
spec socket, dead npc hider, and npc true tile should all be allowed. sote socket can stay in the trash where it belongs
Very interesting video. Got yourself a new sub :) One thing I’m interested about is you said that your discussion doesn’t apply to PvP, but it strikes me that plugins like Freeze Timers, used in PvP, are in a similar grey area to what you talked about. Iirc according to Jagex’s statement on third-party clients, any plugin showing opponents freeze timers is against the rules, but plugins showing your own freeze timers are not. In fact, own freeze timer is part of the vanilla Runelite client. It strikes me that always knowing when you’re about to be unfrozen is a significant advantage in PvP - but this also raises the question of why a heads up display featuring freeze timers isn’t part of the standard game. I don’t play other mmos but presumably things like this are pretty standard?
tasty indirectly admits using a cheat client like most tobers do XD
ive been using cheat clients for years since they first started, but not for stupid overpowered stuff. in my personal opinion jagex's decisions on what is cheat and what is not is confusing, i dont know how they're going to control it from Friday, im maxed, the only way they're going to control it is move to C++ Like RS3 and Close all the Sockets, ( not 1 ban btw) they're calling bluff on sayin they control it) most of the current community r going on as normal, as jagex relying on people stopping to find out who has been using them through authentication tokens.
The dying npcs is another thing I've been using since probably 2009 sometime during the whole trade limit on the original RuneScape. I used to make money killing black dragons in taverly dungeon and often times people would either try to crash or every world was full. Anyways you had to right click to attack them due to their combat level and a lot of people would bring air strike so they could left click. However, if you right click an npc as they are dying and hold it as soon as they spawn left click the attack option and it will attack that npc. I would use this because I knew casting a spell was slightly slower than shooting a bolt or at least when competing for a npc in single combat areas.
Man found the one good thing about it hahaha love it
osrs has such a sketchy userbase I don't trust anybody I meet in Gielinor
som things i can agree with, some its meh. im a pker, tbh i couldnt care less about end game pvm. my problem is the fact that i go into a place risking $ and the people have legit so many advantages with these clients. auto pray/gear swaps, equiping a staff doesnt require a manual click of the spell, highlighted attacks, tb timers, re organized prayer/spellbooks. if im gonna fight people, its gotta be fair and right now its a landslide.
As a very new player (Not even a few months), I've consistently wondered why there are click options for dead NPCs. I've red clicked dead monkeys in the Baba Challenge Room and ended up hit by Volatiles or unable to correct bad movement and ended up running into the venom paths because of it