I liked this experimental video breaking down the hypothetical situation. As a DIY customer that does go to a shop for things that are beyond my tool set, it's nice having an idea of what's going on at the shop
Well said Ray! Communication goes along way! If you as a mechanic communicate any potential pitfalls upfront and the customer fully understands estimate and potential charges then you have done your job correctly! If you quote book rate only or T&M rates and things escalate it’s on on you for anything above the estimate the customer agreed to! That being said there is a chance if you stop and regroup when stuff goes south, call the customer and explain where you went wrong. They might authorize additional charges and be understanding, some won’t they are just that way. But again communication and repore with customers goes along way! I had to learn that the hard way early in my training 23 years ago! I screwed up and then proceeded to fix it and put costs on final bill and my boss sat me down showed what I did wrong step by step and told me the remaining balance was on me not the customer or the shop! Then I had to go explain and apologize to the customer for assuming and not communicating any potential changes to original estimate! The best lessons are the ones that cost you not just time or money or pride but all three coupled with the whole experience and outcome!
For me, the explanation of the how's and why's a job can cost more than expected is just as good as seeing said job be completed in the detail you provide. Showing insight into the cost versus job completion is something most of us can benefit from, in my opinion.
I have been using the same shop for 20 years. I trust him completely, he has never steered me wrong ever and thats why i trust him. Example, 6 months ago our van 115000 miles, had an oil leak. He quoted an oil seal on the filter housing and labor. They replaced the seal and it still leaked due to a hidden crack on the oil filter housing. He called me, explained the problem and told me the replacement housing would be available till the next day. I went to pick up the van the next day and paid the bill. It was cheaper than he quoted over the phone. I asked why, he told me he didnt charge me for the seal replacement since that wasnt the leak issue. I also asked them to rotate the tires while it was on the rack. He didnt charge me for the seals or tire rotation and appolgised for having the van an extra day. Thats a mechanic you can trust, honest and good service. Class act all the way!!!
It's one thing to be billed fairly, but it's another thing to know you're not getting ripped off by some random shop. If I brought my Kia Soul to you, and you told me 'here's what it needs, here's what it'll cost', I'd trust your judgment.
Wow. A lot of people use that term "ripped off" when discussing car repair. If one shop is charging you a *little bit* more for a repair it doesn't put the charges into the realm of getting/ being ripped off. Many people freely use and overuse the term "ripped off". It really needs to stop.
If I was able to see a mechanic work and felt confident in their ability and could see that they operate in a very honest and capable manner like Ray, I would not have an issue to have the work done. I started doing my work after blindly making repairs in my truck with a shop here. I spent in excess of $6k with them, just going with what they said needed to be done. Then at one point, faced with a $1k+ repair to replace the driverside front CV axle because they said the boot was ripped and leaking grease. I decided to do it myself. Bought the parts and when I got the original axle out, to my surprise, the axle boot and CV were okay, there was just grease on the outside of an u ripped boot. This made me lose confidence in them and I have been doing work on my three cars ever since. The exception was a mobile mechanic that came and fixed my Kia that I replaced out some very old spark plugs in. It turned out to be a vacuum leak that I missed. I will be doing valve cover gaskets in it and replacing the control arms in the next few weeks. Many parts, like a control arm, come with everything in them and it's easier and often cheaper to replace, versus rebuild.
I agree with what was said, but sometimes you have to stand your ground as well. Found a dealership that didn't troubleshoot correctly, which voided the extended warranty repair, then tried to hit my son with almost 4000.00 bill. I got involved, and after about 6 phone calls, I said okay my attorney will be in touch, and I reminded them that they were caught not following book time along with no following the correct route of troubleshooting. About an hour later, I got a call from the dealerships owner, and we worked out a deal to avoid court. Remember ask questions and if something sounds off do your research. They saw a young kid that they thought they would take to the cleaners.
@richwoodcock637 This is funny. You came to your son's rescue and blamed everything on the dealership. But you didn't bother TEACHING you son before the fact. You did teach him that daddy will always be there to wipe his ass (so good job with that). And people wonder why this generation can't exercise common sense. (It's because they WANT their children to be helpless and dependent...?)
@gregoryheim9781 hey dipshit my son does know engines infact the dealership just put a new motor in the truck. So before you start saying I didn't raise my son right ask questions. Also that what dad's do.
Repair manuals are an absolute joke! I have done 30 minute jobs but the book said 2.3. I now do actual time. My conscience will not let me rip someone off because of a bogus book of lies.
Ray I don’t drive and I’m visually impaired. You’ve commented back to me before first of all. I love your channel love your content there’s just something soothing and realistic about watching your channel. You’re very honest you’re very systematic with how you do things which I totally respect I don’t drive legally blind. I can see but legally blind love, cars, love repairs, kind of my gift and curse. I just want to say I love how you explain things to people you break it down step-by-step and you just come up with a realistic solution you’re not trying to mess with a customer you’re not trying to mess with the mechanic honestly man you’re here for a reason keep doing what you’re doing. I would love to have a chance to talk to you one day just to say hi if nothing else, and just to let you know that you matter in your Contant matters so much to people, I mean, even me, just watching it just have some entertainment. I learned so much from you even without needing to learn anything you know I I don’t know what else to say I’m rambling, but honestly man you’re great I mean all the struggles that you’ve gone through and you’re still coming up on top and coping and dealing with things man you’re an inspiration.
OK, first off, there is no way it takes 3.5hrs to replace a knuckle on that car. As for changing the wheel bearing, you are better off spending a little more and buy the complete unit (Hub, bearing, and in some cases the knuckle). The lower control arm and knuckle replacement should take no more than 3hrs in total, rusty parts included in the time. We have a lot of rusty cars here. I am actually kinda jealous that all the stuff you work on is fairly rust free, when the stuff I work on is more like what Eric O has to deal with! LOL! That said, if I make a mistake and I break something, that's on me, not the customer. If I made my customers pay for my mistakes, I would no longer be in business. Have a great day, Sir! And God Bless. o7 PS: Yes, we do like these kinds of videos. Not everyone is aware of how the industry works, so you shedding some light on the situation helps folks out immensely. o7
If you can even get a hub/bearing/spindle assembly. The guy botched the job pulling the ball joint and split the knuckle. He should be eating it. Breaking the ball joint retaining bolt off in the knuckle, I can see that on that model. That would not be his fault, but would still need to be dealt with.
Being a mechanic in industrial equipment most of my life I totally understand the aspect of thinking ahead. When a customer knows the worst case scenario and understands the cost it's a lot easier if things go south. I'm sure the work is a lot more rewarding and less stressful having the ability to communicate with the customer directly instead of having an advisor who may not communicate well or understand the possibility of issues coming up if the repairs don't go by the book. Hope you have a great weekend Ray. I really liked this video👊
Ray this is a perfect example of how ALL repair shops should be conducting business. Car repair, phone repair you name it. This is the way to ensure everyone has an understanding about what repairs will cost and setting an expectation of what might go wrong during the repair process that might need to be included
I think you're correct when you said you should talk to the vehicle owner when you get to the stage where you have to do more than you normally have to do to repair a part, let them know what could happen and it could mean more parts would need to be purchased to get the vehicle operational again. Laying it on them out of the blue without any warning will only cause animosity and lead to drama that could have been avoided if all possible scenarios were explained.
Communication is key in EVERY business. If you cannot communicate you have no business running a business. Great job explaining this Ray. As always one heck of a stand up guy & great content creator 👏 😊
Rays explanation of communication with the customer was spot on with a job that can go wrong. One other approach is to estimate high and its covered in case things go real bad. To the original commenter, you can't even explain the difference of a spindle/knuckle and a control arm. You should have spent the $25 on the Subaru ball joint puller and avoided breaking the knuckle. The cleanest/cheapest way out of that mess would be to purchase a used knuckle with a bearing/hub already in it. Install it and send it. Eat that cost as a lesson learned.
Thank you for putting this out there. I would love to see more videos like this too. I think that’s the best explanation of how someone should run a shop and communicate with customers. Ultimately lots of shops including dealerships get a bad rap because customers feel like shops (in general) just want to rip people off. Not always true. Yes there are some out there, but customers also have to realize there are some good mechanics that choose to do this for a living not only because they know how to fix cars but because they have the drive and enthusiasm to fix cars. Sometimes mechanics are going to say “yes I think while we’re in there we need to fix or replace this too”, because that’s what you would do on your own car or truck. Most people have zero idea of what it’s like to work on a car also especially a rusty one. Communication that’s clear and concise as well as constant I think would give customers a good sense of security that a shop knows what it’s doing. Now sure some people are still going to complain or get upset, and that’s expected. But everything about running a business should be about either deescalation or not escalating in the first place. Have a plan, communicate that plan, give a best and worst case scenario up front, and if something changes, let a customer know and often.
As a former technician and sometimes service writer in the Rust Belt...in my case Ithaca NY.. keeping the customer aware of the pitfalls that rust causes was always part of the conversation. Keeping your customer aware of that during an estimate is a crucial part of any job. Great job breaking it down Ray, as usual. Honesty is always the best policy.
I know there have been shops that will stack the labor rates and when I've called them out on it they don't care....they say 'that's what the book calls for'. I don't go to those shops a second time.
Fully agree. Give all possible scenarios up front. My example: I had a 2008 Elantra in for a front wheel bearing this spring. I live in the rust belt of Canada. I was told UP FRONT, that 9/10 the axle shaft aint coming out of the hub. If it does great, if not it's a hub and axle shaft. I was given both costs but to expect the latter. Upon pickup I was shown the carnage trying to get the axle shaft out. 30 ton press could not get it out. The shop was honest. I accepted the risk. Experienced shops/technicians will properly educate the customer. THAT is a sign of a good shop that you keep.
I love this format, thank you for your insight and explanation into the details we as customers don't always get to see. I wish more shops would operate as you do. In my area, i have specifically asked for updates or if they think something else needs done, and don't get a call until it's time to pick up and pay. keep up the good work Ray!
I'm watching this video in May 2024. I like this format. I'm a widow and have to pay people to work on my truck now. I'm glad my husband loved turning wrenches even tho that isn't what he chose to do for a career. Wrenching was his first love tho and our cars always had the best care. I helped my husband enough to know the big picture stuff so I know when someone is puffing air up my skirt and I can go somewhere else. More knowledge = more power! Thank you Ray
Very valuable insights Ray, please do more of them, not least because it shows that shops aren't all rip offs. Given that you are competent with the procedures and have prompt access to trade parts, communication with the customer is key and that means they are aware you need them contactable. Otherwise you'll end up with yet with another disassembled vehicle taking up a stall and not generating money for the business.
Awesome analysis & very educational to a fellow tech...i find great value in this material. Ray I've been in the feild my whole life & had my career cut short by a chronic disease which sidelines me for life, however you & your channel lift up my spirits everyday, i love your quirky antics, loud noises, & shop talk...i sometimes just close my eyes & it's as if I'm there reliving the good times troubleshooting, breaking knuckles & getting the W in the end. Blessings to you, Lauren & the babes. Your channel & now your shop is amazing...✌️ old skool
Ray ray you know what your talking about fixing cars.😊. I have learned some much from listening watching you the the job its very refreshing to watch you and listen to you😊
As a former shop manager for heavy equipment, I am continuously confused by the adherence to 'book hours' (grandpa owned his automotive shop so I understand that too), but why can't you just go to "time and material" (T&M) on some work and just charge by the hour + parts whatever it comes out to? (my local corner shop would not do this and insisted they had to go flat rate and then they clearly cut every corner possible on something a 16-year-old with only five wrenches could have done right)
because shops are required to give estimates, and if the price you give them goes over that estimate when everything is done, they could argue no, pay the estimate and take the car or take you to court.
@@PandaMan02ok, that's the key info -- I've read the Cali Vehicle Code carefully because my local shop wanted to try me: I didn't see anything about having to stay to the estimate, only there had to be an estimate (my local shop didn't give me an estimate but that really wasn't a significant enough issue when I called BAR -- there were other things BAR was more concerned with but that wasn't one). In construction we have T&M provisions where we can semi-abandon the estimate and just go.
I live in the UK and I'm lucky enough to have a local shop that has your mindset. Al will tell me if there's a chance of something like this happening and 9/10 times it doesn't but I trust him implicitly if it did.
It's rather like the informed consent discussion with a doctor before a surgical procedure. "We're going to use Procedure X, which involved the confabulator 17 and three Fargus probes. There is a low chance of excess bleeding, damage to the Jingo gland, and as with all surgical interventions, a chance of infection." "I have done thirty-five of these procedures with no negative outcomes, and the supervising surgeon for the department will be checking in to ensure things go well." "As to the risk of infection, we have already started you on IV antibiotics, and will send you home with a prescription to finish out the treatment." "Are there any questions?" - Yeah, I've had way too many of these discussions as a patient.
Yes... but some things can't be told before they start the job... so it's also important you have a reliable mechanic that even if a small job becomes a big job he's going to be honest about it. Was the breaking of the part actually because it was bad or did the mechanic break it? I trust my mechanic, if he says it so it must be so...
Boy am I glad my master mechanic dad taught me everything he knew. I've saved tens of thousands of dollars in vehicle repairs. Having a fairly complete inventory of tools and experience/knowledge he provided, I'll be forever grateful for.
I like this. I think that it's great you answering automotive questions when you have time. I understand that you wouldn't be able to answer every question that's asked but hopefully you can answer some questions that often pop up.
A very honest answer to the viewer's question. This type of platform turned out to be very interesting. It is refreshing to have honest people like you. That explain how billing works in the automotive industry. Thanks for a great video Ray.
As every repair person knows , there are many variables that affect pricing . Then there are the surprise things that pop up . As you stated , keeping an open and Frank communication line with your customer is very important to avoid the feeling of being over charged . There are times that eating a portion of the job is better for all parties , but as we go along those become fewer and fewer because we learn . Stay safe , have fun .
In the electronic service business about 30 years ago. Our shop repaired a customer's television for a circuit problem. Demonstrated the proper operation for the customer, at the counter, when it was picked up after it was repaired. The customer took it home, turned it on and had a poor, blurry, washed out picture. He brought it back to the shop and we diagnosed that the CRT (picture tube) was defective. Expensive part, expensive repair. Over $500 dollars back then. Way more then the cost of a new television. The customer wanted to blame us and wanted us to repair it (no charge parts and labor). Nope, no way. The customer took us to small claims court. The judge herd both sides and told the customer we were not responsible for the CRT and labor to replace it. The judge even said if the CRT had gone bad ,in the shop before the repair was complete that we were not responsible for that situation either. Customer was still angry but hey, that is the way the cookie crumbles. I also worked at another shop where a customer's tv was stolen during a break in. No insurance, the owner told the customer about the loss and said the shop was not responsible. The customer had no claim because his claim check had printed on it "not responsible for loss due to fire or theft".
This was cool, even though it wasn't something you were involved with...it was interesting to hear your thought process on the issue. Thanks for 'taking us behind the scenes'.
While I was active duty military, I had a Scion I just picked up in at Toyota for a stripped control arm bolt. It was a Missouri car, and plenty rusty. They called and said a motor mount broke. I asked what it was going to cost me, and they said "You didn't break it, we did, we will take care of it". I kept going to that dealer with all my vehicles until I moved. I was fully prepared to pay the additional cost, and was pretty stoked I didn't have to.
I enjoy your repair videos because im learning a great deal. I know everything about my particular car but theres a lot to learn about different makes etc. I feel like im getting a very good education. Im also interested in a subject like today’s video. The administration/management side of the business is very interesting also. Im a details oriented personality so keep the teaching coming!
Thank you for a great explanation on this. There is a certain "Tire and Battery" shop who will charge you all of the labor for each component removed and replaced. I had a break caliper lock up. That required a caliper, rotor and break pads. Let's say the book called for 1 hour to replace the caliper and pads, 1.5 hours to replace the rotor, they charged me for 3 hours of labor rather than the just he labor to repair the Rotor. all of the other stuff had to come off in order to replace the rotor but they charged me for each component they touched. I was billed over 500.00 in labor and they had my car about 1.5 hours total time.
I once had a GM dealer servicing my car under warranty with a brake problem. They had all the wheels off the car and called to sell me a tire rotation for $39.95. Money for nothing. I understand people must get paid for the work they do but when you make a customer feel like they are being taken advantage of, that is an insult that never goes away. That dealer never got my business again and I have talked many people into going somewhere else.
If you read a current labor guide for brakes, it starts with a brake pad change. There is a line item of time added on for every item from there. rotor may be 0.2 per rotor, caliper 0.3 per, hose 0.5hr.
went to a shop for a power steering leak. After an hour, they took lots of pictures and told me they can't fixit!! $75.00 later!!!.Went to another shop and they replaced the power steering return line.FIXED!! WISH I HAD SOMEONE LIKE YOU WHERE I LIVE!!!
Ray is the service writer & mechanic he will give the costumer an informed evaluation.Sometimes in bigger shops there is a communication gap between the service writer, mechanic & costumer.Sometimes the costume gets excited about unexpected price increase.Have a great weekend
My neighbor in Lockport, NY. runs his own repair shop. He says PB Blast is his favorite wrench when it comes to working on brakes and suspension! I don't understand why NY doesn't do like Colorado Springs does with treating the roads with chemicals other than salt.
I like this type of commentary on a random video. It gives more of the thought process put in place which is the baseline for pretty much any car that comes in to be diagnosed or repaired
I love the full explanation in this video. I learned some things about how good mechanics/shops look at these things. Living in Utah, I am sure there is a rust aspect for jobs like that. I really appreciate this video.
This was a very informative video. Thanks for going over this topic with great detail. I think there should be more content like this because it helps us understand the repair/ billing process.
I may be off topic here a bit, but the motto I used to go by was: If something breaks while disassembling something, it is the customer's responsibility. If something broke while putting it back together, it was my fault. Rust and crappy plastic parts were the biggest worries. When I worked in Chicago, rust was the major factor. When I moved to AZ, whoo-hoo, no more rusty junk! But plastic (and rubber) and desert heat don't like each other. I often could plastic-weld things like the tabs that hold retaining clips, but if I cracked a panel, it would be up to me to replace it.
My wife and I love watching your videos, I have learned a lot. I do most work myself but I am also lucking enough to have a local shop that is honest and up front like you. We like this type of video is great too, for both the consumer and small shops. Thank you.
This was great!! I've always tried to do it this way, because pricing in the rust zone can be difficult. Although you may lose in pricing to many competitors, you win in how the customer feels about the service. That's the win in the end!
It’s up to the technician to inform the sales manager of possible problems with certain repairs. Most seasoned technicians know what vehicles to look out for certain problems
These videos need a special playlist so we can refer people to watch them because that would be a huge time saver, giving folks a baseline on the repair process and why they should plan for possible delays.
Hi Ray. This was a very clean clear explanation. During my 55 year career, for a 20+ yr period I worked for a couple of Fiat-Lancia dealers in the Santa Clara Valley.(Calif) . I liked working on Italian cars( Yea-I know) We would sometimes get cars from New York-New England. ( Stanford students) Total rust buckets. The service manager would explain to the vehicle owner-up front- that the car was rusty. Certain jobs we charged 200%/150%. There were some cars we would not work on. Last thing I wanted was a car to break in half on the rack or the doors would not open. Some folks understood. Some were irate and left-highly agitated. Service manager always eyeballed the cars and up front prepared the customer. Italian cars do not like salt !
Ray really enjoyed this approach to your videos, it creates a community that shares and helps fellow mechanics/technicians. also diy mechanics or non mechanics which is important as it would show what's involved in certain jobs that would be best left to a mechanic also what costs might be and how labour intensive. So it takes away the nervousness and false stories of going to a mechanic.
Well said Ray. I wish there were more technicians like you. I do most of my own repairs unless I don't have proper tools or knowledge. Love your channel.
This experimental video is successful in explaining the thought process of any repair shop. I used to be an electronics in-home repair tech dealing with the public. I always explained to the customer with a broken piece of equipment what the cost to repair it might be based on what I found on the troubleshoot process. You must set those expectations at a reasonable level early in the repair process.
Hi Ray. I think this is an awesome addition to your channel. One of the reasons I enjoy your content is hearing why you do what you do. Sometimes I’m sure something on your mind doesn’t fit into a standard video so this is a great way to explain how your industry works.
Another excellent presentation. I have shared this with a young trainee tech. I hope it helps him & others understand that times guides are essactly that... "Guides" in the perfect world.
Excellent video Ray, I'd enjoy seeing more of this type of content as part of an ongoing series titled "Effectively managing customer expectations via proactive communication" based on your actual "Customer states . . ." encounters/experiences. I for one would find such uploads both entertaining AND enlightening. Thanks for all you do and your refreshingly honest approach to running your business.
I like this style of video answering viewer questions about scenarios. It reminds me of the podcast Car Talk where at the end they’d answer questions etc. Also is nice to see people get answers to their questions!
I love your work ethics and honesty with your customers;. Good on you! Some shops can be downright evil about this sort of thing. I like your take on things. It's not always the shop's fault, but sometimes it is. I've had a couple of things broken because techs need to use impact drivers on everything, including door cards and dashboards. (I've had both of them torn up by over zealous technicians and both times the shop managers tried to BS me.) On a similar note, I just had some work done on my car that I'm not really equipped to handle. In those cases I will pay and I thought the charges were almost reasonable. At the same time it was stated that my rear shocks needed replacing. They were correct. They wanted $750 to replace the shocks. (Standard shocks mind you and super-easy to replace. I also live in a desert...no rust, not even surface rust.) They were charging $250 per shock and $125 per shock to install them. With shop charges and disposal fees I was looking at just over $800. They also mentioned that while they were in there they should replace the lower sway bar attachments. That would cost another $150 for the parts and $125 to install. That was a break on price because they were already taking some of it apart. I opted out of this repair after I looked up the job and parts. The OEM parts delivered to my door were $87 each. The sway bar links were $31 for the pair delivered to my door. I then went to replace the shocks and found out that you have to remove the sway bar links to remove the shocks. Easy enough, but the reality is, the stealership was double-dipping and truly ripping me off on parts and labor. I did that entire job for $225 and less than two hours of my time. The $18 discrepancy was due to the 18-Pack of MGD I bought my friend to use his BendPak lift to do the job. Image how many people get ripped off every day in this way. I even had a VW dealership try to charge me an extra 8 hours labor to replace a water pump during a timing belt change. That is literally one more bolt when doing that job. Gah!! (8 hours for the timing belt is a ripoff in itself and negates any fuel savings that car ever had.) Just to be clear, I'm perfectly happy to pay a shop for their expertise and taking on the liability. There are big expenses in running a shop, but I don't think they should cover the entire shop on my shock replacement.
I like the way you explain the system involving talking with the customer and outlining potential problems with a repair; but in a big shop where you talk to a 'service advisor' ,that doesn't happen, which is when things can go off the rails if unstated problems happen
Your approach to explaining the possible tiers of cost in a repair is reasonable and fair to both parties. I took an E450 with 7.3l power stroke to a local dealership for an ac system replacement. The service writer recommended replacing the entire system “quote “for a not so little amount. I agreed to the repair with the understanding of having the vehicle done in a timely manner to put it back in service. It’s costing several hundred if not thousands of dollars a day to not have the vehicle. Two days later they call wanting approval for hose and condenser replacement for an additional 1200 dollars. I didn’t know those items were not included in the entire ac system quote- somehow they must be related to the drivetrain or fuel management, sarcasm. I refuse to pay for what should have been a part of the original “entire system “ quote. Met with the service manager to discuss. They expressed that usually it’s not necessary to replace those item because they can flush out any debris- it was quoted with that assumption. I offered the analogy that in my business it would be similar to quoting a service panel replacement then half way through the job asking for more money to replace all the breakers. In my case that option would have been disclosed to the customer as a potential cost savings if possible not as a gamble that the breakers would be reusable. In the end I didn’t have to pay the difference as it was agreed to let this experience be a learning opportunity for the service writer and service department to understand how not to use the term “entire or 100%”.
Most shops will want to be 100% honest and make the customer whole. Was in for trans service and shop dinged my radiator. They put in a new one after telling me what happened. Conversely, went in for suspension service at a different place. Shop did not reinstall the concave washer in the front strut mount . Instead claiming I needed new mounts and an axle. When found out they missed that part, and I called to ask what they might do for me, they claimed they don't do that kind of work... I was so shocked, I just hung up. But my favorite is I pull up for a oil change. "Lift 4 is open, go for it." And do I did...
I think this was a great video and is applicable to many trades. I'm an HVAC/refrigeration tech and have had this same type of situation happen several times. If I have any doubts about the condition of the equipment being repaired I will always alert the customer of what may happen. As with your snapped bolt requiring an engine replacement, any job is only one failed fastener/stripped thread/broken fitting away from majorly escalating the price of a job. As you explained, proper up front communication with the customer and setting expectations for best & worst case scenarios can alleviate a lot of potential conflicts with your customers.
I've known shops that are shady af! I got to the point, where you replace something your giving me back the orginals and I'll return for core charge or what not. Now I have a mo Ile mechanic and he's brutally honest just like me and he breaks something, he fixes and it's his cost!
I'm glad you had the courage to experiment with something a bit different. A lot of people don't, presumably because they are afraid or even paranoid about potentially losing subscribers or views of their regular content. Even though I'm not in the US but in the United Kingdom (England) in Europe, I found the content of this video helpful and insightful. It also shows your other skills and positively contributes to and complements your overall content. Many thanks for this video, Ray. I look forward to more videos like this.
I liked this experimental video breaking down the hypothetical situation. As a DIY customer that does go to a shop for things that are beyond my tool set, it's nice having an idea of what's going on at the shop
Well said Ray! Communication goes along way! If you as a mechanic communicate any potential pitfalls upfront and the customer fully understands estimate and potential charges then you have done your job correctly! If you quote book rate only or T&M rates and things escalate it’s on on you for anything above the estimate the customer agreed to! That being said there is a chance if you stop and regroup when stuff goes south, call the customer and explain where you went wrong. They might authorize additional charges and be understanding, some won’t they are just that way. But again communication and repore with customers goes along way! I had to learn that the hard way early in my training 23 years ago! I screwed up and then proceeded to fix it and put costs on final bill and my boss sat me down showed what I did wrong step by step and told me the remaining balance was on me not the customer or the shop! Then I had to go explain and apologize to the customer for assuming and not communicating any potential changes to original estimate! The best lessons are the ones that cost you not just time or money or pride but all three coupled with the whole experience and outcome!
Only if you’re ready to explain circumstances.
Other wise stop it….
For me, the explanation of the how's and why's a job can cost more than expected is just as good as seeing said job be completed in the detail you provide. Showing insight into the cost versus job completion is something most of us can benefit from, in my opinion.
And more shops should do what Ray is describing as well. That’s going to ultimately lead to less “dissatisfied” customers in the end.
I like it.
Well said
@@ToddAdams1234 problem is shops are run by people who dont care and are not capable of such advanced work prediction like Ray is.
I have been using the same shop for 20 years. I trust him completely, he has never steered me wrong ever and thats why i trust him. Example, 6 months ago our van 115000 miles, had an oil leak. He quoted an oil seal on the filter housing and labor. They replaced the seal and it still leaked due to a hidden crack on the oil filter housing. He called me, explained the problem and told me the replacement housing would be available till the next day. I went to pick up the van the next day and paid the bill. It was cheaper than he quoted over the phone. I asked why, he told me he didnt charge me for the seal replacement since that wasnt the leak issue. I also asked them to rotate the tires while it was on the rack. He didnt charge me for the seals or tire rotation and appolgised for having the van an extra day.
Thats a mechanic you can trust, honest and good service. Class act all the way!!!
It's one thing to be billed fairly, but it's another thing to know you're not getting ripped off by some random shop. If I brought my Kia Soul to you, and you told me 'here's what it needs, here's what it'll cost', I'd trust your judgment.
Wow. A lot of people use that term "ripped off" when discussing car repair. If one shop is charging you a *little bit* more for a repair it doesn't put the charges into the realm of getting/ being ripped off.
Many people freely use and overuse the term "ripped off". It really needs to stop.
If I was able to see a mechanic work and felt confident in their ability and could see that they operate in a very honest and capable manner like Ray, I would not have an issue to have the work done.
I started doing my work after blindly making repairs in my truck with a shop here. I spent in excess of $6k with them, just going with what they said needed to be done.
Then at one point, faced with a $1k+ repair to replace the driverside front CV axle because they said the boot was ripped and leaking grease.
I decided to do it myself. Bought the parts and when I got the original axle out, to my surprise, the axle boot and CV were okay, there was just grease on the outside of an u ripped boot.
This made me lose confidence in them and I have been doing work on my three cars ever since.
The exception was a mobile mechanic that came and fixed my Kia that I replaced out some very old spark plugs in. It turned out to be a vacuum leak that I missed.
I will be doing valve cover gaskets in it and replacing the control arms in the next few weeks.
Many parts, like a control arm, come with everything in them and it's easier and often cheaper to replace, versus rebuild.
I agree with what was said, but sometimes you have to stand your ground as well. Found a dealership that didn't troubleshoot correctly, which voided the extended warranty repair, then tried to hit my son with almost 4000.00 bill. I got involved, and after about 6 phone calls, I said okay my attorney will be in touch, and I reminded them that they were caught not following book time along with no following the correct route of troubleshooting. About an hour later, I got a call from the dealerships owner, and we worked out a deal to avoid court. Remember ask questions and if something sounds off do your research. They saw a young kid that they thought they would take to the cleaners.
@richwoodcock637 This is funny. You came to your son's rescue and blamed everything on the dealership. But you didn't bother TEACHING you son before the fact. You did teach him that daddy will always be there to wipe his ass (so good job with that). And people wonder why this generation can't exercise common sense.
(It's because they WANT their children to be helpless and dependent...?)
@gregoryheim9781 hey dipshit my son does know engines infact the dealership just put a new motor in the truck. So before you start saying I didn't raise my son right ask questions. Also that what dad's do.
Repair manuals are an absolute joke! I have done 30 minute jobs but the book said 2.3. I now do actual time. My conscience will not let me rip someone off because of a bogus book of lies.
Ray I don’t drive and I’m visually impaired. You’ve commented back to me before first of all. I love your channel love your content there’s just something soothing and realistic about watching your channel. You’re very honest you’re very systematic with how you do things which I totally respect I don’t drive legally blind. I can see but legally blind love, cars, love repairs, kind of my gift and curse. I just want to say I love how you explain things to people you break it down step-by-step and you just come up with a realistic solution you’re not trying to mess with a customer you’re not trying to mess with the mechanic honestly man you’re here for a reason keep doing what you’re doing. I would love to have a chance to talk to you one day just to say hi if nothing else, and just to let you know that you matter in your Contant matters so much to people, I mean, even me, just watching it just have some entertainment. I learned so much from you even without needing to learn anything you know I I don’t know what else to say I’m rambling, but honestly man you’re great I mean all the struggles that you’ve gone through and you’re still coming up on top and coping and dealing with things man you’re an inspiration.
I can relate, Ray is amazing.
INTEGRITY is the pathway to your success... be it in LIFE, in LOVE, in BUSINESS. Impressed in every level you partake I enjoyed the video
OK, first off, there is no way it takes 3.5hrs to replace a knuckle on that car. As for changing the wheel bearing, you are better off spending a little more and buy the complete unit (Hub, bearing, and in some cases the knuckle). The lower control arm and knuckle replacement should take no more than 3hrs in total, rusty parts included in the time. We have a lot of rusty cars here. I am actually kinda jealous that all the stuff you work on is fairly rust free, when the stuff I work on is more like what Eric O has to deal with! LOL!
That said, if I make a mistake and I break something, that's on me, not the customer. If I made my customers pay for my mistakes, I would no longer be in business.
Have a great day, Sir! And God Bless. o7
PS: Yes, we do like these kinds of videos. Not everyone is aware of how the industry works, so you shedding some light on the situation helps folks out immensely. o7
Doesn't that 3.5 include R&R the wheel, brakes and all, just to get that arm out?
@@steveurbach3093 3hrs max from the time the jack touches the car, till it's back on the ground.
If you can even get a hub/bearing/spindle assembly.
The guy botched the job pulling the ball joint and split the knuckle. He should be eating it. Breaking the ball joint retaining bolt off in the knuckle, I can see that on that model. That would not be his fault, but would still need to be dealt with.
Extremely well explained.
Thank you(:
Being a mechanic in industrial equipment most of my life I totally understand the aspect of thinking ahead. When a customer knows the worst case scenario and understands the cost it's a lot easier if things go south. I'm sure the work is a lot more rewarding and less stressful having the ability to communicate with the customer directly instead of having an advisor who may not communicate well or understand the possibility of issues coming up if the repairs don't go by the book. Hope you have a great weekend Ray. I really liked this video👊
Ray this is a perfect example of how ALL repair shops should be conducting business. Car repair, phone repair you name it. This is the way to ensure everyone has an understanding about what repairs will cost and setting an expectation of what might go wrong during the repair process that might need to be included
I think you're correct when you said you should talk to the vehicle owner when you get to the stage where you have to do more than you normally have to do to repair a part, let them know what could happen and it could mean more parts would need to be purchased to get the vehicle operational again. Laying it on them out of the blue without any warning will only cause animosity and lead to drama that could have been avoided if all possible scenarios were explained.
Communication is key in EVERY business. If you cannot communicate you have no business running a business. Great job explaining this Ray. As always one heck of a stand up guy & great content creator 👏 😊
I love how Ray actually pays attention to the comments and explores new aspects of content accordingly, it feels very interactive!
Rays explanation of communication with the customer was spot on with a job that can go wrong. One other approach is to estimate high and its covered in case things go real bad.
To the original commenter, you can't even explain the difference of a spindle/knuckle and a control arm. You should have spent the $25 on the Subaru ball joint puller and avoided breaking the knuckle. The cleanest/cheapest way out of that mess would be to purchase a used knuckle with a bearing/hub already in it. Install it and send it. Eat that cost as a lesson learned.
Thanks Ray... well explained..
Great subject and Video @Rainman Ray's Repairs
Excellent way to explain the process. Watching Eric O and the rust shows exactly how a job can escalate.
Detailed explanations of how and why things are done are very informative. Do more please!
Thank you for putting this out there. I would love to see more videos like this too. I think that’s the best explanation of how someone should run a shop and communicate with customers. Ultimately lots of shops including dealerships get a bad rap because customers feel like shops (in general) just want to rip people off. Not always true. Yes there are some out there, but customers also have to realize there are some good mechanics that choose to do this for a living not only because they know how to fix cars but because they have the drive and enthusiasm to fix cars. Sometimes mechanics are going to say “yes I think while we’re in there we need to fix or replace this too”, because that’s what you would do on your own car or truck. Most people have zero idea of what it’s like to work on a car also especially a rusty one. Communication that’s clear and concise as well as constant I think would give customers a good sense of security that a shop knows what it’s doing. Now sure some people are still going to complain or get upset, and that’s expected. But everything about running a business should be about either deescalation or not escalating in the first place. Have a plan, communicate that plan, give a best and worst case scenario up front, and if something changes, let a customer know and often.
As a former technician and sometimes service writer in the Rust Belt...in my case Ithaca NY.. keeping the customer aware of the pitfalls that rust causes was always part of the conversation. Keeping your customer aware of that during an estimate is a crucial part of any job. Great job breaking it down Ray, as usual. Honesty is always the best policy.
I know there have been shops that will stack the labor rates and when I've called them out on it they don't care....they say 'that's what the book calls for'. I don't go to those shops a second time.
Fully agree. Give all possible scenarios up front. My example: I had a 2008 Elantra in for a front wheel bearing this spring. I live in the rust belt of Canada. I was told UP FRONT, that 9/10 the axle shaft aint coming out of the hub. If it does great, if not it's a hub and axle shaft. I was given both costs but to expect the latter. Upon pickup I was shown the carnage trying to get the axle shaft out. 30 ton press could not get it out. The shop was honest. I accepted the risk. Experienced shops/technicians will properly educate the customer. THAT is a sign of a good shop that you keep.
I love this format, thank you for your insight and explanation into the details we as customers don't always get to see. I wish more shops would operate as you do. In my area, i have specifically asked for updates or if they think something else needs done, and don't get a call until it's time to pick up and pay. keep up the good work Ray!
I'm watching this video in May 2024. I like this format. I'm a widow and have to pay people to work on my truck now. I'm glad my husband loved turning wrenches even tho that isn't what he chose to do for a career. Wrenching was his first love tho and our cars always had the best care. I helped my husband enough to know the big picture stuff so I know when someone is puffing air up my skirt and I can go somewhere else. More knowledge = more power! Thank you Ray
Communication is key. With older vehicles, expect the worst, and hope for the best.
Very informative video, you could do a “beer break with Ray” series like this and it should not require much post edit work on your part.
Very valuable insights Ray, please do more of them, not least because it shows that shops aren't all rip offs. Given that you are competent with the procedures and have prompt access to trade parts, communication with the customer is key and that means they are aware you need them contactable. Otherwise you'll end up with yet with another disassembled vehicle taking up a stall and not generating money for the business.
Awesome analysis & very educational to a fellow tech...i find great value in this material.
Ray I've been in the feild my whole life & had my career cut short by a chronic disease which sidelines me for life, however you & your channel lift up my spirits everyday, i love your quirky antics, loud noises, & shop talk...i sometimes just close my eyes & it's as if I'm there reliving the good times troubleshooting, breaking knuckles & getting the W in the end.
Blessings to you, Lauren & the babes.
Your channel & now your shop is amazing...✌️ old skool
Ray ray you know what your talking about fixing cars.😊. I have learned some much from listening watching you the the job its very refreshing to watch you and listen to you😊
As a former shop manager for heavy equipment, I am continuously confused by the adherence to 'book hours' (grandpa owned his automotive shop so I understand that too), but why can't you just go to "time and material" (T&M) on some work and just charge by the hour + parts whatever it comes out to? (my local corner shop would not do this and insisted they had to go flat rate and then they clearly cut every corner possible on something a 16-year-old with only five wrenches could have done right)
because shops are required to give estimates, and if the price you give them goes over that estimate when everything is done, they could argue no, pay the estimate and take the car or take you to court.
@@PandaMan02ok, that's the key info -- I've read the Cali Vehicle Code carefully because my local shop wanted to try me: I didn't see anything about having to stay to the estimate, only there had to be an estimate (my local shop didn't give me an estimate but that really wasn't a significant enough issue when I called BAR -- there were other things BAR was more concerned with but that wasn't one). In construction we have T&M provisions where we can semi-abandon the estimate and just go.
I live in the UK and I'm lucky enough to have a local shop that has your mindset. Al will tell me if there's a chance of something like this happening and 9/10 times it doesn't but I trust him implicitly if it did.
It's rather like the informed consent discussion with a doctor before a surgical procedure.
"We're going to use Procedure X, which involved the confabulator 17 and three Fargus probes. There is a low chance of excess bleeding, damage to the Jingo gland, and as with all surgical interventions, a chance of infection."
"I have done thirty-five of these procedures with no negative outcomes, and the supervising surgeon for the department will be checking in to ensure things go well."
"As to the risk of infection, we have already started you on IV antibiotics, and will send you home with a prescription to finish out the treatment."
"Are there any questions?"
-
Yeah, I've had way too many of these discussions as a patient.
Yes... but some things can't be told before they start the job... so it's also important you have a reliable mechanic that even if a small job becomes a big job he's going to be honest about it. Was the breaking of the part actually because it was bad or did the mechanic break it? I trust my mechanic, if he says it so it must be so...
Having a shop you can trust is a great thing!
I always wondered how labor rates accounted for rust and such. It was rather insightful to hear the breakdown and the split in labor fees.
Boy am I glad my master mechanic dad taught me everything he knew. I've saved tens of thousands of dollars in vehicle repairs. Having a fairly complete inventory of tools and experience/knowledge he provided, I'll be forever grateful for.
I like this. I think that it's great you answering automotive questions when you have time. I understand that you wouldn't be able to answer every question that's asked but hopefully you can answer some questions that often pop up.
Always tricky but communication with customer is very definitely on the table. Great video Ray
A very honest answer to the viewer's question. This type of platform turned out to be very interesting. It is refreshing to have honest people like you. That explain how billing works in the automotive industry. Thanks for a great video Ray.
As every repair person knows , there are many variables that affect pricing . Then there are the surprise things that pop up . As you stated , keeping an open and Frank communication line with your customer is very important to avoid the feeling of being over charged . There are times that eating a portion of the job is better for all parties , but as we go along those become fewer and fewer because we learn . Stay safe , have fun .
In the electronic service business about 30 years ago. Our shop repaired a customer's television for a circuit problem. Demonstrated the proper operation for the customer, at the counter, when it was picked up after it was repaired. The customer took it home, turned it on and had a poor, blurry, washed out picture. He brought it back to the shop and we diagnosed that the CRT (picture tube) was defective. Expensive part, expensive repair. Over $500 dollars back then. Way more then the cost of a new television. The customer wanted to blame us and wanted us to repair it (no charge parts and labor). Nope, no way. The customer took us to small claims court. The judge herd both sides and told the customer we were not responsible for the CRT and labor to replace it. The judge even said if the CRT had gone bad ,in the shop before the repair was complete that we were not responsible for that situation either. Customer was still angry but hey, that is the way the cookie crumbles. I also worked at another shop where a customer's tv was stolen during a break in. No insurance, the owner told the customer about the loss and said the shop was not responsible. The customer had no claim because his claim check had printed on it "not responsible for loss due to fire or theft".
I like the video and your thought process on the matter is spot on.
Communication is always key as well as being up front and honest.
This was cool, even though it wasn't something you were involved with...it was interesting to hear your thought process on the issue. Thanks for 'taking us behind the scenes'.
Thank you for posting Ray. we called it CYA.
Explained very clearly.
While I was active duty military, I had a Scion I just picked up in at Toyota for a stripped control arm bolt. It was a Missouri car, and plenty rusty. They called and said a motor mount broke. I asked what it was going to cost me, and they said "You didn't break it, we did, we will take care of it". I kept going to that dealer with all my vehicles until I moved. I was fully prepared to pay the additional cost, and was pretty stoked I didn't have to.
I enjoy your repair videos because im learning a great deal.
I know everything about my particular car but theres a lot to learn about different makes etc.
I feel like im getting a very good education.
Im also interested in a subject like today’s video. The administration/management side of the business is very interesting also.
Im a details oriented personality so keep the teaching coming!
Thank you for a great explanation on this. There is a certain "Tire and Battery" shop who will charge you all of the labor for each component removed and replaced. I had a break caliper lock up. That required a caliper, rotor and break pads. Let's say the book called for 1 hour to replace the caliper and pads, 1.5 hours to replace the rotor, they charged me for 3 hours of labor rather than the just he labor to repair the Rotor. all of the other stuff had to come off in order to replace the rotor but they charged me for each component they touched. I was billed over 500.00 in labor and they had my car about 1.5 hours total time.
Did the BRAKE pads BREAK? There is a difference in BREAK and BRAKE
I once had a GM dealer servicing my car under warranty with a brake problem. They had all the wheels off the car and called to sell me a tire rotation for $39.95. Money for nothing. I understand people must get paid for the work they do but when you make a customer feel like they are being taken advantage of, that is an insult that never goes away. That dealer never got my business again and I have talked many people into going somewhere else.
@@The_DuMont_Network Hehe.. Good catch. I can't spell or translate what is in my head to my fingers. :). Yes, the brake pads broke.
If you read a current labor guide for brakes, it starts with a brake pad change. There is a line item of time added on for every item from there. rotor may be 0.2 per rotor, caliper 0.3 per, hose 0.5hr.
I’m a DYI’er but I know my limits, I fully expect to pay for someone’s expertise as long as the outcome is relevant to the quality of the work.
went to a shop for a power steering leak. After an hour, they took lots of pictures and told me they can't fixit!! $75.00 later!!!.Went to another shop and they replaced the power steering return line.FIXED!! WISH I HAD SOMEONE LIKE YOU WHERE I LIVE!!!
Good info bring more information on these issues 🙏
That was really interesting. Thank you for this!
Keep the customers happy. That is the pace forward. You rock!
Ray is the service writer & mechanic he will give the costumer an informed evaluation.Sometimes in bigger shops there is a communication gap between the service writer, mechanic & costumer.Sometimes the costume gets excited about unexpected price increase.Have a great weekend
Ray, thank you the video, please add more of these informational videos!
Ray to put it plainly you are an honest businessman with a conscience and a good heart.
Keep up the great work! Cheers from Canada
Thats why i love your UA-cam videos. You are a honest man.
Very well said!
My neighbor in Lockport, NY. runs his own repair shop. He says PB Blast is his favorite wrench when it comes to working on brakes and suspension! I don't understand why NY doesn't do like Colorado Springs does with treating the roads with chemicals other than salt.
very informative discussion about how charges are determined. thanks.
Great information Mr Ray
I like this type of commentary on a random video. It gives more of the thought process put in place which is the baseline for pretty much any car that comes in to be diagnosed or repaired
I love the full explanation in this video. I learned some things about how good mechanics/shops look at these things. Living in Utah, I am sure there is a rust aspect for jobs like that. I really appreciate this video.
You are absolutely correct on everything you said. You are the best and most honest person, and that is why we all love you, my brother.
Thank you for the explanation, that makes a lot more sense. Please continue creating educational videos that you enjoy!💡
Thanks Ray self explanatory video love your videos glad your doing well with your shop all the best to you and your family from nick uk
This was a very informative video. Thanks for going over this topic with great detail. I think there should be more content like this because it helps us understand the repair/ billing process.
I may be off topic here a bit, but the motto I used to go by was: If something breaks while disassembling something, it is the customer's responsibility. If something broke while putting it back together, it was my fault. Rust and crappy plastic parts were the biggest worries. When I worked in Chicago, rust was the major factor. When I moved to AZ, whoo-hoo, no more rusty junk! But plastic (and rubber) and desert heat don't like each other. I often could plastic-weld things like the tabs that hold retaining clips, but if I cracked a panel, it would be up to me to replace it.
My wife and I love watching your videos, I have learned a lot. I do most work myself but I am also lucking enough to have a local shop that is honest and up front like you.
We like this type of video is great too, for both the consumer and small shops. Thank you.
Loved the way you broke down the process of pricing. Would love see more of this
Excellent explanation and suggestions!
This was great!!
I've always tried to do it this way, because pricing in the rust zone can be difficult. Although you may lose in pricing to many competitors, you win in how the customer feels about the service. That's the win in the end!
It’s up to the technician to inform the sales manager of possible problems with certain repairs. Most seasoned technicians know what vehicles to look out for certain problems
very detailed scenarios ray you have to try to cover all when estimating a job.welll explained!
These videos need a special playlist so we can refer people to watch them because that would be a huge time saver, giving folks a baseline on the repair process and why they should plan for possible delays.
You should do more because there are people out there that to understand things through and experts view.
Happy to see anyone that 💯 says what they will do and does what they say without lying to make more and then shows thier work on video
This is a very interesting story and the process of knowing what is going on with the job is great. Thanks for sharing this and found it great.
I like this type of video very much. A diversion for the regular ones. Good additional learning tool!
outstanding explanation, covering all contingencies 👍
Hi Ray. This was a very clean clear explanation. During my 55 year career, for a 20+ yr period I worked for a couple of Fiat-Lancia dealers in the Santa Clara Valley.(Calif) . I liked working on Italian cars( Yea-I know) We would sometimes get cars from New York-New England. ( Stanford students) Total rust buckets. The service manager would explain to the vehicle owner-up front- that the car was rusty. Certain jobs we charged 200%/150%. There were some cars we would not work on. Last thing I wanted was a car to break in half on the rack or the doors would not open. Some folks understood. Some were irate and left-highly agitated. Service manager always eyeballed the cars and up front prepared the customer. Italian cars do not like salt !
Ray really enjoyed this approach to your videos, it creates a community that shares and helps fellow mechanics/technicians. also diy mechanics or non mechanics which is important as it would show what's involved in certain jobs that would be best left to a mechanic also what costs might be and how labour intensive. So it takes away the nervousness and false stories of going to a mechanic.
Well said Ray. I wish there were more technicians like you. I do most of my own repairs unless I don't have proper tools or knowledge. Love your channel.
This experimental video is successful in explaining the thought process of any repair shop. I used to be an electronics in-home repair tech dealing with the public. I always explained to the customer with a broken piece of equipment what the cost to repair it might be based on what I found on the troubleshoot process. You must set those expectations at a reasonable level early in the repair process.
Hi Ray. I think this is an awesome addition to your channel. One of the reasons I enjoy your content is hearing why you do what you do. Sometimes I’m sure something on your mind doesn’t fit into a standard video so this is a great way to explain how your industry works.
Another excellent presentation. I have shared this with a young trainee tech. I hope it helps him & others understand that times guides are essactly that... "Guides" in the perfect world.
Excellent video Ray, I'd enjoy seeing more of this type of content as part of an ongoing series titled "Effectively managing customer expectations via proactive communication" based on your actual "Customer states . . ." encounters/experiences. I for one would find such uploads both entertaining AND enlightening. Thanks for all you do and your refreshingly honest approach to running your business.
I like this style of video answering viewer questions about scenarios. It reminds me of the podcast Car Talk where at the end they’d answer questions etc. Also is nice to see people get answers to their questions!
I love your work ethics and honesty with your customers;. Good on you!
Some shops can be downright evil about this sort of thing. I like your take on things. It's not always the shop's fault, but sometimes it is. I've had a couple of things broken because techs need to use impact drivers on everything, including door cards and dashboards. (I've had both of them torn up by over zealous technicians and both times the shop managers tried to BS me.)
On a similar note, I just had some work done on my car that I'm not really equipped to handle. In those cases I will pay and I thought the charges were almost reasonable. At the same time it was stated that my rear shocks needed replacing. They were correct. They wanted $750 to replace the shocks. (Standard shocks mind you and super-easy to replace. I also live in a desert...no rust, not even surface rust.) They were charging $250 per shock and $125 per shock to install them. With shop charges and disposal fees I was looking at just over $800. They also mentioned that while they were in there they should replace the lower sway bar attachments. That would cost another $150 for the parts and $125 to install. That was a break on price because they were already taking some of it apart.
I opted out of this repair after I looked up the job and parts. The OEM parts delivered to my door were $87 each. The sway bar links were $31 for the pair delivered to my door. I then went to replace the shocks and found out that you have to remove the sway bar links to remove the shocks. Easy enough, but the reality is, the stealership was double-dipping and truly ripping me off on parts and labor. I did that entire job for $225 and less than two hours of my time. The $18 discrepancy was due to the 18-Pack of MGD I bought my friend to use his BendPak lift to do the job.
Image how many people get ripped off every day in this way. I even had a VW dealership try to charge me an extra 8 hours labor to replace a water pump during a timing belt change. That is literally one more bolt when doing that job. Gah!! (8 hours for the timing belt is a ripoff in itself and negates any fuel savings that car ever had.)
Just to be clear, I'm perfectly happy to pay a shop for their expertise and taking on the liability. There are big expenses in running a shop, but I don't think they should cover the entire shop on my shock replacement.
I like the way you explain the system involving talking with the customer and outlining potential problems with a repair; but in a big shop where you talk to a 'service advisor' ,that doesn't happen, which is when things can go off the rails if unstated problems happen
Your approach to explaining the possible tiers of cost in a repair is reasonable and fair to both parties.
I took an E450 with 7.3l power stroke to a local dealership for an ac system replacement. The service writer recommended replacing the entire system “quote “for a not so little amount.
I agreed to the repair with the understanding of having the vehicle done in a timely manner to put it back in service. It’s costing several hundred if not thousands of dollars a day to not have the vehicle.
Two days later they call wanting approval for hose and condenser replacement for an additional 1200 dollars.
I didn’t know those items were not included in the entire ac system quote- somehow they must be related to the drivetrain or fuel management, sarcasm.
I refuse to pay for what should have been a part of the original “entire system “ quote. Met with the service manager to discuss. They expressed that usually it’s not necessary to replace those item because they can flush out any debris- it was quoted with that assumption.
I offered the analogy that in my business it would be similar to quoting a service panel replacement then half way through the job asking for more money to replace all the breakers. In my case that option would have been disclosed to the customer as a potential cost savings if possible not as a gamble that the breakers would be reusable.
In the end I didn’t have to pay the difference as it was agreed to let this experience be a learning opportunity for the service writer and service department to understand how not to use the term “entire or 100%”.
Most shops will want to be 100% honest and make the customer whole. Was in for trans service and shop dinged my radiator. They put in a new one after telling me what happened.
Conversely, went in for suspension service at a different place. Shop did not reinstall the concave washer in the front strut mount . Instead claiming I needed new mounts and an axle. When found out they missed that part, and I called to ask what they might do for me, they claimed they don't do that kind of work... I was so shocked, I just hung up.
But my favorite is I pull up for a oil change. "Lift 4 is open, go for it." And do I did...
I like this experimental video. I especially liked the in-depth analysis of each component of the question.
I think this was a great video and is applicable to many trades. I'm an HVAC/refrigeration tech and have had this same type of situation happen several times. If I have any doubts about the condition of the equipment being repaired I will always alert the customer of what may happen. As with your snapped bolt requiring an engine replacement, any job is only one failed fastener/stripped thread/broken fitting away from majorly escalating the price of a job. As you explained, proper up front communication with the customer and setting expectations for best & worst case scenarios can alleviate a lot of potential conflicts with your customers.
Well stated Ray
Good explanation, thanks, keep them coming (example once a month).
Thank you for sharing this. I hope most mechanics think the same way.
I've known shops that are shady af! I got to the point, where you replace something your giving me back the orginals and I'll return for core charge or what not. Now I have a mo Ile mechanic and he's brutally honest just like me and he breaks something, he fixes and it's his cost!
Very informative Ray I like that break down
No words needed.
I'm glad you had the courage to experiment with something a bit different. A lot of people don't, presumably because they are afraid or even paranoid about potentially losing subscribers or views of their regular content. Even though I'm not in the US but in the United Kingdom (England) in Europe, I found the content of this video helpful and insightful. It also shows your other skills and positively contributes to and complements your overall content. Many thanks for this video, Ray. I look forward to more videos like this.