The Truth About GORE-TEX
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2022
- Gore-Tex is the latest and greatest when it comes to textile waterproofing technology, but it wasn't always this way. Join us as we unravel the story of Gore-Tex and how it came to dominate the outdoor clothing industry today.
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For further reading, check out the sources for this video here:
docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
Script: Holly Conklin
Editor: Reid Valaitis
Animator: Zachary Kastrukoff
Project Manager: Lurana McClure Rodríguez
Host: Levi Hildebrand
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The new heirloom for Millenials and Gen Z. Imagine wearing a vintage arcteryx goretex jacket in 2100 you inherited from your great grandfather.
That's such a cool idea. I love it!
Nothing new under the sun man.
If only they didn't delaminate and the glue holding the seam tape didn't degrade.
@@30m3 haven't had issues with delamination myself, the tape is easily repaired. The only jacket I've had to retape is my 1994 Flecktarn Seyntex (German goretex) copy, feel like that's understandably old for a light repair. All of my 2000's and newer goretex stuff is still* like new
Delamination will end that heirloom in 10 years lol
I have a gore-tex pach in my body, it was used to patch a hole in diaphragm that I was born with, Bob Gore literally saved my life, and I wouldn't be here at 32 years of age if it wasn't for his invention.
I had this same thing happen to me when I was born, I have Goretex on my diaphragm.
No he didn't save your life. If not this material they would use something else.
So gorp
Al Gore saved mine.
@@Kremithefrog1 lmao. He saved us all!
As a chemist it always makes me chuckle when people assume that a difficult-to-pronounce chemical name is more dangerous than a simpler, common name. To be fair, I don't really want too many halocarbons in my body, but even the most natural and benign compounds have really complicated names (especially when you stick to IUPAC conventions)
everyone who has ingested dihydrogen monoxide has died!
They’d freak out if they heard they were eating deoxyribonucleic acid
"I don't want chemicals in my food"
@@boobgoogler what dna
Dihydrogenmonoxite OMG , has to be horrible right?? Hahaha
I am a scout and ski so I actually have uses for good outdoor clothes, and I have realized that my former jackets have gone bad because of bad build quality, not because of the material. That's unsustainable. One jacket with normal waterproofing that was really well made would fit the durability argument. I don't need 30K waterproofing, the weather isn't that extreme, but I need zippers that don't rip because that actually does make more waterproofing chemicals. My conclusion is that well built and repairable clothing should be top priority for me personally, but I don't need the highest end materials, but you get that automatically if you pay a lot.
Yes exactly. I feel the same! I'm over the name brand game.
Good point.
@IOwOI Don't come to Northern Norway, EVER xD
Stavanger in winter also counts, 0-1 Celsius in the fog down there is deadly.
The build quality is crusial in my opinion. And it depends on brands, but GT is not about being totally waterpfoof, it is about being breathable.
If we stir the boat back into repairable and durable we can save this planet.
I have a old jacket and old pants for skiing I bought them 10 years ago. Still skiing in them. If it works why changing ?
Every member of the US military is given a Gore-Tex jacket. Since we switched uniform patterns, I have a couple Gore-Tex jackets that I use all the time. They also use Gore-Tex in the boots to keep your feet dry. It's honestly super awesome and works super well.
I havent thought about the environmental impact of all this stuff. I will definitely use my Gore-Tex stuff for as long as I possibly can and look into recycling it when I am finished with it many many years down the line.
Great video as always. This one hit closer to home because I actually use Gore-Tex on a daily basis.
I always wondered what carbon footprint was of a BLU-117 or FGM-148 Javelin is ?
@@woltews I have no idea haha. Never seen those in real life.
@@boss862 I was on an ex once working with a motor section we dropped about 6500 81mm bombs . At the end of the ex there was a big AAR stile session and this one captain stood up and said "I noticed a lot of people using tetra boxes , they are not recyclable and we should stop there use " after having sent s much ordnance down range I was completely dumbfounded by the statement, it was like the captain must have not understood what was actually happening near the pointy end ( was a type of logistics officer) but to be fair we also never saw a tetra pack or any non hard rations the entire 8 weeks of the ex .
Yeah the stuff i was issued at cape may is incredible
Funny - I work a hard labour job - have to do some forestry in there and goretex has always been one of the first boots that get my feet wet. Gore Tex rain gear falls apart super fast as well.
Being someone in the military, gortex has made some miserable times not that bad, it boosts morale in rainy weather when you feel like there’s no escape so I’ll forever love everything gortex
My mother gave me a North Face Gore-Tex jacket in 1986 for my college study abroad program in Italy. The jacket has lasted for 35 years and is still in excellent condition. The material really is durable as you report.
The material that makes that jacket durable is not Gore-Tex, it’s the outer shell. Cortex is a membrane that is laminated on the inside of said shell (an interchangeable material); never see it or feel it. For example, I have gor-Tex boots but they’re 100% leather.
@@BikingVikingHHi have a jacket with goretex on the outside. Its called goretex shakedry. Extremely breathable but also extremely fragile. I ripped it after a couple of weeks of use.
One of the things Bob Gore told people when they asked what he did was that he cleaned cesspools. It was his way of ending that line of questioning. Unless he knew you - in which case he talked, and talked, and talked about what he did and photography - his two favorite subjects. My father was personal friends with him (he lived in Newark, Delaware, where my parents also still live), and my father has owned Newark Camera Shop for decades (still around). I met Bob a few times in high school and college, as I worked in the lab developing film and printing photos for the family business. He and his wife were enthusiastic photographers, and were loyal customers. Because of the family's position and friendship with my father, we paid special attention to them anytime a member of the Gore family came by. Bob and his wife were very nice people. He passed away in September, 2020.
Fun fact additional: suits for the space program were made in Delaware until recently.
It's very nice of you to treat a billionaire's family better than your inferior non-billionaire customers.
@@maxmeier532 They were treated well because they spent a lot money, were very reliable, and had become friends with my parents even before that. (not to mention they weren't billionaires back then - though they were wealthy.)
@@mromagnoli the fact you even had to reply with this is mental. You took care of a good customer. Where's the problem. I appreciated the info even if Che Guevara didn't.
@@maxmeier532 I think you have a personal problem.
I think Bob Gore would have thrown a cocktail in my face because I would have played 20 questions on what it's like to clean cesspools professionally.
Most hikers and thru-hikers in particular discovered Gore-Tex isn't what it's cracked up to be. It *might* let vapor through, but it won't allow water to get through. That basically means when you sweat enough, it will remain inside your shoe or jacket and you'll still get wet. I also tends to make your footwear stay wet once it gets wet taking days to dry out. In those applications, drying faster has more value than "breathing". Ironically, gear that has the ability to dry faster tends to be less expensive than gear with WPB materials.
The other dirty little secret is that Gore-Tex doesn't work when it gets dirty. It clogs and wets out. A basic waterproof jacket that doesn't require a spray on product to work, just keeps working.
Do you have recommendations on brands that don't use gore-tex?
@@aayotechnology You sort of have to look at models over brands. Some brands will see gear with and without Gore. On the plus side, gear without Gore tends to be cheaper.
@@aayotechnology The North Face FUTURELIGHT is good.
Yes the Goretex marketing has been superb and made to appear 100 % effective, reliable but for those that have purchased and worn it , we know better!!’
If you don't mind waxing your gear fjallraven or other brands with waxed canvas gear works great for 90% of use cases
I love the worn wear program through Patagonia. I’ve always been a fan of them but it was too expensive for me to buy new. Most of the things I’ve bought from there were barely used if at all. Thank you for recognizing Patagonia and their efforts to be an ecologically & socially friendly business.
Came here to say something similar. If FP wants to do a segment on Worn Wear, a lot of us would watch it. I've ordered a couple items and have been very happy with them.
with their lifetime guarantee. After about 10 years, the layers came off. Patagonia only gave the feedback, service life exceeded, but can be handed in for "recycling". Well, the jackets are just jackets with a greenwash coat of paint
A word here from rainy New Zealand. I've had many years in the great outdoors here and have lived through the evolution of rainwear from oilskins to PVC to coated nylons to Goretex and the rest. Each of these have upsides and downsides and Goretex is no exception. Aside from the crippling price, in really wet conditions, for me., it would be a toss up between goretex and a well designed PVC jacket - that's if I could ever find one. Goretex's selling point is obviously it's breathability. However, this breathability ceases to exist as soon as the fabric becomes wet. Lovely promo images of the water beading off the outer layer belie the realities of extended treks in the rain. After a bit of use, the silicon coating on the outer layer gives up the struggle and the fabric becomes heavy and uncomfortable. The notion of breathability ceases to exist outside of a clever marketing campaign and your sweat just adds to the misery. And the downsides don't stop there. If you're lucky enough for the rain to stop, you're still wearing a sodden garment and now the wind is chilling you as it evaporates that big store of moisture. I sometimes feel as if I could be getting more protection from a good sized rubbish sack. Don't get me wrong, there are some upsides. Where Goretex especially shines is in sub zero temperatures or any cold conditions where the air is dry. It then becomes a pleasure to finish a tough hike with dry clothes. It's just that when you're soggily slogging away through the cold rain, the knowledge of how much that bloody jacket cost you just adds to the pain.
I still have my Helly Hansen Mandel oilskins from my sailing days (literally sailing on barques).
It's not breathable but in cold weather and pouring rain it keeps me dry. And the Mandal is affordable.
Helly has the Chelsea Evolution line these days, triple or more the cost of a full Mandal suit, but waterproof goes out the window as soon as it starts pouring (been there in my Army days where we had gore tex suits).
So my advice is to look at Helly Hansen Gale or Storm line, those look good and I'm probably going to get a set of one of those as well.
Both have an EN 343 rating of 3:1 I think.
As a ex long distance path walker I have used Goretex jackets and a British jacket from Paramo , Sussex , UK. They don’t use Goretex and developed Analogy as their waterproof system. I was absolutely delighted with my Alto jacket which had a soft , non- crackly fabric feel . This system is designed to be washed in non detergent soap and then re- proofed with the appropriate Nikwax water based coating. Nikwax is also a Paramo brand and make a huge range of water based coatings for every type of outdoor situations . I
literally just using an umbrella or a pvc poncho is better and more breathable
If you are a city person looking for bling, Gortex really isnt needed. I spent 30 years mountaineering, snow camping, backpacking, hunting, etc, and I have been out on SAR saving people in the worst weather known to man. Gortex saved my butt more times I can count, and allowed me to save the lives of other people. My current Jacket is 25 years ago. It looks as if it has been through hell and back because it has. I know. I was there when it happened. The Jacket works just as good as the day I bought it. Thank you Marmot you made one hell of a jacket back in the day.
As a firefighter I was given an all gore Tex outfit. From boots to hands. I always watch out it doesn’t get unnecessarily damaged when practicing in it just because I know it’s going to get replaced if it gets damaged. Now that I know how precious this technology actually is and how careful we should use it I’m going to watch out even more. Of course in the event of a real emergency I will focus on doing the job right but I’m talking about training and practicing. But I gotta say that Gore Tex really works well and it’s just remarkable how just the fire jacket is stuffed with this kind of tech. It’s water resistent, impenetrable and fire resistant while also letting out sweat and heat.
I bought a “damaged” fire jacket last year and its by far the best winter jacket ive ever owned
@@Pheatan where did you get it??
in my experience of using the materials, the truth about gore tex is, it relies on the water repellent feature on the most outer layer of the fabric. while the gore-tex fabric can last a long time, durable water repellent (DWR) wear really quick, if those water-repellent layer of fabric goes away, water will be absorbed into the most outer layer, and blocked gore tex's breathable pores.
Agreed
Also it doesn't work in cold weather. Like winter climate.
@@krimke881 why wouldn’t it work in cold weather?
@@krimke881 moronic comment, it works perfectly fine at minus 40 daily here.
Kind of weird this entire video missed everything about the DWR. Clueless.
Videos like these are great!! Thank you so much for making these informations "accessible" for people who don't know where to even start. Please do a video on Pantagonia Worn Wear!!
Thank YOU for joining us here and taking the time to comment, we really appreciate it! We're definitely looking into it 💪💪
Would love a worn wear breakdown! It is one of my favorite ways to get access to quality gear with a lot of life in it, at a way better price too.
I love my arc jacket, and I can't wait to slowely patch it as memories through my adventures and when I'll be able to tell my kids about how something becomes more yours the more you use it.
Ok, let us address something here. The fact that something can be or not easily pronounced creates a completely false sense of security when talking about chemicals.
Came to the comments looking for this!! Pronunciation difficulty is a meaningless addition to one's argument :/
Yep, simple "air" is difficult to pronounce if you break it into the actual chemical composition.
Especially as some do - "if your 5 y.o. can't pronounce it they can't eat it" on some food, veg especially. Says the kid who crush "mesembryanthemum" at 3 whilst on holiday on the coast.
@Tim Bushell No one cares if you could say mesembryanthemum.
You are missing the point. Hard to pronounce is the critical characteristic for social media attack. The group that can't pronounce it is less educated, unlikely to question unsupported arguments, highly likely to be looking for reasons to oppose the educated and or wealthy.
The base problem is favoring "popular" over "right".
The failure here is to substantiate the implication that interim chemicals in manufacturing are harming anyone. The longevity claim is even more ridiculous when you consider what a tiny fraction of the "forever" manmade materials produced to make garbage.
A case of missed opportunities that you didn't cover, or at least how the yarn goes here in Northern Delaware, home of both DuPont and Gore-Tex. Mr. Gore used to work for DuPont, and it was in that capacity that he was introduced to PTFE. He developed the use case of ePTFE as a textile. He told his superiors about it and they (and thus the DuPont corporation) wasn't interested in it. So, Gore patented it himself, left DuPont, and founded Gore-Tex to develop and market the new textile called Gore-Tex. Gore-Tex took off and made a bunch of money. DuPont already had a science building named for them at the University of Delaware. Now there is also a science building at UDel named after Gore, and Gore Lab just a couple buildings down from DuPont Lab. (I honestly don't know if Gore paid for the construction of a new building, or just donated enough money to UDel to get an existing building renamed to Gore Lab.) Ever since (though I don't know what has happened since DuPont basically fell apart and was purchased) there was a rivalry between DuPont and Gore where they would take turns improving the facilities, each time one-upping the other. The beneficiary of that rivalry... The student body at the University of Delaware.
I'm constantly shocked by how many people have drunk the gore-tex coolaid. Sure, it is waterproof and in a lab it is supposed to be breathable. But in real life it is anything but. I get soaked from my own sweat in warm weather, and in cold weather, my body heat condenses inside the jacket or boots even when I'm not engaging in high intensity activity. I have had three gore tex jackets, and many pairs of backcountry winter boots. In every instance, the gore tex will keep the water out, but also keeps my own sweat inside. Now this video shows how its bad for the environment. I stopped buying any waterproof-breathable gear 10 years ago and I've been completely satisfied. I use 100% waterproof ponchos in rainy warmer weather, and for my winter camping trips, water resistance is more than adequate.
I find the opposite.
Wool is too good for the exact opposite reason.
When i wear a wool base layer. Or wool socks, I find myself dehydrated.
It pulls my sweat away so effectively that when I wear goretex...... or a knockoff, I'm VERY dry because of the wool.
I have GoreTex jackets but I also have PVC, PU and waxed cotton. If you’re not being active and it’s not warm weather, something like PVC is 100% waterproof, hard wearing and reliable. It’s reassuring that you could stand outside in pissing rain all day and it will not leak. Save your GoreTex for when you actually need it to be breathable.
Absolutely. I'm in Alaska where commercial fishing raingear is the norm for really stormy days on the town, and there's several things I love about it that you'd never find in a general outdoors jacket. Neoprene cuffs are far superior to velcro closures at keeping water out, and add warmth. Hoods are almost never helmet-compatible, so you have a far more functional and wind-resistant fit. And if you get the really heavy-duty stuff, it's waterproofed on the inside as well so it dries stupid fast.
Never met a DWR treatment that helps at all over hours of rain exposure. Once wetted out Gore-Tex loses breathability and its short drying time. Not to mention, breathability is marginal at best in 100% humidity. Sometimes low-tech is the best tech. I'll admit this is a fringe usage case, though.
@@jackson12106 I’m in the west of Ireland so rain is a constant companion. Some days, fashion goes out the window and it’s fishing gear and wellies (rubber boots).
Being someone who struggles with sweaty feet and stinky hiking boots, I invested in some high end la sportiva trail runners with gore tex, and I gotta say theyre worth every cent. Not only do my feet not sweat in them, after I'm done hiking the socks do not even smell at all! It's a huge difference
I'm a brazilian guy traying to open a outdoor brand with sustainable/organic materials, and your channel helps me a lot to understand the hype in the mainstream right now. Keep it up with the good content, and please talk about Worn Wear from Patagonia, its a really great program. (and sorry for my english kkkk)
I discovered Goretex in Alaska and I swear by the stuff.
With a thin layer of a high quality wool underneath you could basically confront very cold temperatures and wind as long as you don’t stop moving.
George Costanza: “It’s Gore-Tex!”
This is great information. My job involves selling outerwear at a sporting goods store, and it's amazing how many people specifically request Gore-tex. They're often surprised to learn that Gore-tex requires regular maintenance (cleaning with tech-wash), just like cheaper garments that have been treated with a DWR finish (wash-in or spray on). I've often wondered whether it's more environmentally harmful to choose Gore-tex, which needs to be cleaned but doesn't need to be re-waterproofed, or to choose DWR products that need to be cleaned and re-waterproofed, which involves PFCs. I've since tried to choose urban/everyday rain gear that can be waterproofed with wax or oil (like Fjallraven), and I save my Gore-tex and DWR garments for hiking, biking, etc. because they're lightweight and packable.
I know of two several DWR sprays that don't contain PFC, does it matter? They seem to work
@@xWood4000 Cool! I'll definitely watch for PFC-free DWR products.
Someone here just posted this link: ua-cam.com/video/zYXn3mBJqxI/v-deo.html Seems the goretex coating DOES need to be reapplied.
@@xWood4000 which products are those?
@@aayotechnology grangers & nikwax do PFC free products
Great video, and thanks for the recommendation at the end! Right as I was thinking "dang, so what do I do?", you answered the question.
I'm a materials scientist master and have known PTFE for quite a long time, but never was it mentioned that gore-tex is basically the same material... thanks for educating me on this!
Thanks for being here! Glad you enjoyed it 😁
I also didn't know this, makes sense but now I suddenly like goretex a whole lot less. I could see using it when absolutely necessary but other than that it's now a no for me.
My first time hearing about Gortex was when I was issued my jacket in the US Coast Guard. It got me through a few pretty severe winters in northern Michigan. I was bummed I had to give it back when I got out, but I guess it’s good they reissue them as long as they can.
I’ve had a North Face Mountain Guide Jacket for almost 25 years now. It’s truly meant for forever use. Hell they just “retroed” the style a while back.
Have had gore-tex jackets and overpants for nearly 30 years now. Cost some serious money back then, but still using the same , with only minor repairs all this time. Have paid themselves off multiple times now, mostly under dirty conditions. Could not be happier. Actually learnt to look forward to rain.
incredibly underrated channel, love these vids keep it up!
I bought my Arcteryx gore-tex jacket after extensive research (around 200 reviews watched to choose the jacket) with the thought I would wear it for 20 years (or more). I wear it daily (casual use) or on trips (sometimes extreme) - this is one of 4 jackets I own. I also got down winter jacket which I own for 25years+, other goretex jacket which I own for 15-20 years (it's now downgraded as my special use jacket ... extreme use with all kind of dirt involved). And together with arcteryx I got thin dawn jacket to wear either as dedicated or as insulation layer with arcteryx. Choice of arcteryx been totally disconnected from the brand. Just model of the jacket is fitting all of my needs.
I think I'm set till end of my life (hope for 40 years more).
Great video! I appreciate that you really get into the uncomfortable elements of things we otherwise LOVE
Exactly what we're trying to do here! Glad you're enjoying 🙌
@@FutureProofTV Yes, loved that unexpected plot twist. So nice to become more conscious of the intentionally untold secrets of things we consume.
Great video! Well researched and presented, keep up the good work!
i bought some gore boot covers for cycling and was looking into getting an overcoat and maybe some more gear. i thought i was researching a small side company, i didn't realize they were literally the industry standard lmao. great video.
I have had GORTEX JACKET and PANTS issued to me when I was in the Army back when it came out in 1984. It still works and is great in extreme high winds and strong rain as well as the deep cold.
Excellent video. I really liked Polartec Neoshell which was introduced in the early 2010s but seemed to lose popularity despite being brilliant. Neoshell jackets were pricey but no worse than the best of GTX and it felt much nicer against the skin.
I also really liked a Jack Wolfskin Texapore Infinity softshell that I owned. 30k + H/h and 35k+ MTVR so really waterproof and breathable. But then the product disappeared from the market.
GTX is everywhere. I've liked some other products over the years but they come & go whereas Gore is still there.
It has been alleged one of the reasons for that is Gore's own business practices which make difficult for other membrane manufacturers to sell into a brand that works with Gore.
bought my first Goretex jacket in the early 80's so yeah, thanks for the timely post :D
I am working in the textiles industry , and the arcteryx alpha series jacket is the best. Go hiking with gore-tex is a must-have for nice trip
I’ve had the same Gore-Tex jacket from Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC) since 2014. The Zipper recently broke but, I was able to find a sewing shop to replace a zipper. I’m looking forward to seeing how long this jacket will last. So far eight years.
I've been using a MEC backpack for 20 years now and you'd absolutely not know by looking at it. Hoping they still make everything to that quality standard since the buy out.
Great video! Love how honest and open you are about the pro's and con's about brands! Maybe you van do a video about fjallraven next?
Definitely looking into Fjallraven for a future ep! Thanks for the support 💪
Didn’t think I’d be here so early. Glad you made this video. I was gonna research this material anyway. I keep seeing it advertised everywhere. Thanks for doing this work! Subscribed and liked.
Glad it was helpful ! Thanks for the support 👏
I worked for a medical supply company that provided high tech hospital air beds. The primary product that was used for the individual air cells and bed sheets was GORE-TEX. Very expensive.
I feel honoured to be one of the “day ones” of this channel. Love the content and can’t wait to see where you go!
This is a great video - as always - but there are two things I want to correct. As an outdoor educator and expedition kayaker I have spent most of my life in waterproof breathable jackets and dry suits. The Patagonia Torrentshell 3l isn’t gore Tex. Patagonia uses very little gore. Event isn’t a gore Tex knock off post patent expiration of gore. It is its own thing, and is far more breathable than gore-tex. You wanna research something, research how Gore is pushing eVent out of business! Great video. Thanks.
I second this. As someone who has worked for Patagonia, the Torrentshell is H2NO, Patagonia's patented breathable, waterproofing fabric standard. They do sell Gore-Tex jackets at a premium, but they've been pushing H2NO for the affordability and the technology is just as great as Gore-Tex.
Patagonia is a true outdoor brand.
@@AznGirlz5526 trying to find info about h2no. is it not e-PTFE, if not what is it chemically?
i have watched every one of the videos on this channel and i have truly enjoyed every one
I also love to recommend the used market! It’s easy to find articles that have only been worn a few times that are made from Gore-Tex and similar high-quality materials. Also, the waterproof finish can be refreshed using a DWR spray or similar product. This is my plan for how to not contribute to demand, and keep my Gore-Tex jackets in service for many years!
I work as a glacier guide and my company provides gortex jackets. What I can say is that they’re not that great… It doesn’t breath like how it’s advertised plus water gets inside after an hour or two after full rain. It’s all marketing and I’ve used around 17 Gortex jackets in 2 years. Most of it is just coating and not the fabric itself.
Goretex is physically waterproof tho, since the airholes are smaller than water droplets. So the leakage cant be down to the goretex, but the seamsealing etc
Gore Tex also has applications in the medical industry in the form of sutures and grafts
Very true!!
I absolutely love my GoreTex ShakeDry cycling jacket. Expensive but light, stuffs in either my back jersey’s pocket or it’s own pocket. Breathes well in humid Florida. And it shakes dry!
This is definitely my new favorite channel. 🙌🏾 Great information!
Welcome aboard, glad to hear it!!!
I bought a pair of Gortex leather boots, in the 70's. At first they were great, could stand in a cold stream and your feet would get cold, but not wet. Loved it. But after about maybe 3 months they started to leak and were then no better than regular leather boots. So I have stayed away from it since, as the price had been considerable higher than those boots that didn't have gortex.
The combination of waterproof and breathable doesn't work with boots. Gore-Tex breathes by letting water vapor pass through. Something that fits tight like lace-up boots doesn't have space for sweat to evaporate into vapor. If you have waterproof boots you will have wet feet because of sweat. The other choice is breathable boots that are not waterproof but they will dry quickly.
I used the same pair of Lowa hiking boots with Goretex (also leather) for about 15 years. I recently got a replacement because they were quite worn out (no rips or detaching sole though) and they were 100% waterproof until the very end. Maybe it also depends on the brand that implements Goretex?
You should try again with maybe a jacket.. you are missing out. I spend half the year in Alaska and the other half in the pnw I’m on the water 200+ days a year and there is nothing else comparable to a gore tex jacket
MAN I love this channel. So informative!
Glad you enjoy it! Thanks for being here 🙏🏻
We're happy to have ya here! Thanks for joining us 🙌🙌
OMGosh, I never knew! … In the early 70’s skiing and living up Alta, UT as an employee for several years … I purchased a first generation Gortex ski jacket and it was heavenly! It was light and kept me dry. I loved it so much that even tho it’s ability to keep me dry did breakdown (in those first generations) after a couple years … I still have it … so I will add it to my will in perpetuity 😇
Bought a banger GoreTex jacket from gear trade for super cheap. So far I can’t believe how great it breathes. I was cooking in it the other day, and it clicked at some point how bizarre it was that I wasn’t sweating. It’s just now clicking how weird it is that I was cooking in my rain gear…
Back in the 90s my gore-tex boots were actually waterproof. Lately the stuff I've picked ain't the same quality. I have to spray it down with waterproof coating a few times per season just to make it semi useful 😔
I'd love to see some videos on fjallraven! Love your stuff!
Good to know! Thanks 👏👏
I've used Gore-Tex gear since my Army days in the 70's and 80's. For keeping the elements out there is nothing better. Gloves, boots, pants, jackets, all impervious to wind, snow and water. My newest Gore-Tex jacket is well over 20 years old, so yeah, it does last and is as element proof now as when new. All the stuff I bought lasted decades, and when they did give out, it was the leather or rubber or nylon that wore out rather than the Gore-Tex failing.
I wear an ePTFE jacket every day as a courier on a bicycle, it's one of my most essential items, especially in winter. It has just the right amount of breathability and weather proofing
In such rainy countries like The Netherlands, these gore tex jackets are 🙏🏼
A life saver, for sure! 🙌
My North Face ski jacket uses Gore-Tex. I bought it in 1992. It still works great except the Sun has faded it, which gives it character. Sounds like the environmental problem here isn't Gore-Tex itself, just the way we dispose of it.
Back in the old days before the prevalence of cars everybody wore felt hats. Fur felt is like a polymer. The animal hairs are processed so they interlock like molecular chains in polymers. The felt is tight enough so that it only allows a minimal amount of air to pass through, but that allows the water vapor to escape. The more expensive hats were made of beaver because it is more water resistant than hare. Gore-Tex is a modern and more useful version of beaver fur felt.
I hate to tell you, but we all die. So no, it's not just the way we dispose of it. The vast majority of people wants unused clothes. That's also integral to the fashion industry, jobs you know, that's often an argument for tolerating pollution. It's not for nothing these brands are even is business, and they always used to be in some form. Manufacturing businesses only exist because people want new stuff and populations grow. Even if you wear your jacket till your last breath, chances are it wont get repurposed, likely also not recycled.
@@maxmeier532 I never thought of reusing as a way to dispose of old Gore-Tex. There is very little Gore-Text in this world so if it was just collected it would be easy to incinerate. Nuclear waste is bad stuff and needs to be disposed of properly. But that doesn't mean everything else goes to the dump. Depending on the waste material, different disposal methods need to be used.
I bought my The North Face Jacket in 1999 and I'm still using it today, never regretted it for 1 day.
Good video/info. I currently own 5 Northface jackets. Ive had one that must have been a knock off as it tattered over time i threw it out. Main point is two of them I bought in 03’ made so well not a loose thread or hole...i wear them snowboarding and when im shoveling. One a couple yrs old is waterproof but it holds in sweat, the newest is a two piece base and shell i wear more fashionably through fall and winter. My wife just bought a used Patagonia for wet weather. Ive always been impressed w northface.
It's interesting that Gore-Tex has gained such a following, I honestly stopped using it after my first experiences with it.
In the 70s and 80s I was riding motorbikes in the UK. In spite of all the hype about arctic exploring and jungle tracking, I doubt that there is a more hostile environment than being used on a motorbike in a cold environment. You instantly become aware of every leaking seam, every unsealed cuff, lapel, zip and popper. I never found a Gore-Tex garment that didn't leak somewhere.
Unfortunately, the one company that I relied on for PVC-coated rider wear went out of business because so many people bought Gore-Tex. Granted, PVC kept the sweat in, but at least the sweat was already at body temperature, not the miserable 3ºC of a UK winter shower. And yes, I had to shower every day after I wore the PVC, and the PVC would smell like a ferret in heat after a few days, but it really did keep me properly DRY, which Gore-Tex never, ever managed. And Gore-Tex gloves were just as bad. Lots of glossy brochures and labels eulogising this wonder product, but I never found a pair that came close to being properly waterproof.
And now that we discover that this product contains "Forever chemicals" WTF is it still allowed to be produced?
Damn bro that’s crazy but guess what this stuff has come a long way since the 70s and 80s and unlike you might lead yourself to believe there are in fact way more inhospitable places on earth such as on faces of mountains in the Patagonia while you’re being hammered with hurricane force winds in -20c. It is a beautiful product which I and thousands if not millions of others trust with their lives while out on these adventures.
@@sashanorman7975 In most of those places you may face 100mph+ winds, but you won't be out in them very much or not for very long times. I've known several climbers of a very high level, and none of them would habitually face the sort of conditions that you're talking about. And none of them would do it for more than about a week at a time.
I'm very aware of the conditions climbers face, and I stand by my OP.
BTW, I really don't see much change in the materials or construction. And Gore-Tex is still the same product, which was my point.
Fortunately, I no longer live in that septic(sic) isle.
I honestly can't wait for GORPcore to fall out of style, just think of the sheer amount of second-hand stuff that'll flood the secondhand market. :D
YOU decide what is style, when you buy something. Not them.
I bought a Gore-tex shell from the North Face factory outlet in Cabizon, So Cal, about 25 years ago. Still looks brand new
You have shown admirable restraint in going this entire video without showing the "It's a goretex coat!" Seinfeld clip, or referencing Dark Water, the movie all about how PFOA's poisoned Delaware, and then the planet.
In NZ we have a comparable called "earth sea sky" and their product is over priced crap. $800 for a "splash proof" jacket that fell apart within weeks.
When I called them they said it was my body sweat! They asked me to send it to them, which I did, and they never gave it back. Just stole it back from me!
Please note, another NZ company "icebreaker" make excellent performance, high quality action clothing.
Icebreaker stuff is great: I have a long sleeve base layer, a thin sweater and a heavier one, Merino blend. Great across a wide temperature range and unlike synthetics they don’t stink after 1 days wear.
Please do talk about the worn wear program! I've been trying to determine if some of their worn wear stuff is worth the price or if I would be better to just trying to find things used through other means.
I’ve purchased 3x through the worn wear program, including a fleece, rain jacket, and vest. I have zero complains and spent no more than $60 for any individual garment. Although I chose garments that were either labeled great or excellent quality. Worn wear can still be price when it comes to down jackets and some of the more stylish/retro jackets, otherwise, I’d recommend you give it a go.
Yes please talk about this program and REI’s used marketplace as well, Levi.
Probably the best no-BS explanations which are actually interesting. Liked + Subbed!!
Awesome, thank you so much!! 👏
My father preaches Gore Tex every chance he gets, he used to do a lot of hiking when he was young but now he mostly wear his brand new Arcteryx gore tex jacket from his home to his car. All while I do a lot of hiking and I wear a leather jacket on which I apply grease every year.
I recently learned about this issue from my daughter, an environmental engineer who works on testing for PFOAsin water sources. As someone who loves being in the outdoors, I now buy more wool and less synthetics. I ditched Teflon for cast iron years ago, but not until I probably ingested a ton of it. These companies suck.
I actually worked at Arc'Teryx. We had a few bikers and it was unanimous that gore-tex was useless for biking, actual biker rain gear was the way to go.
Gore-tex is good for hiking as it is light weight, so in a situation where ounces of weight make a difference, this is what it is designed for.
Gore-tex "useless for biking"????
You obviously don't ride!!
Gere-tex is brilliant.
Arc'Teryx don't make biker gear, so your comments have no value.
@@BarbosaMCMXCVII I use Firstgear Rainman. But best way to get any biker gear is go to a motorcycle show in winter or spring where they sell last years gear at half price... even though the only thing changed in the new gear is the color most of the time. I got my gloves, jacket and chaps there.
I'm curious why you think goretex is useless when so many top tier brands like Klim, Rukka, or Dainese use it? Then what is "actual biker rain gear" if having goretex in it means it's not biker gear?
@@Nate.H I think you misunderstand me. Goretex as a lining is incredible. A goretex jacket on its own is a great jacket in a downpour but not in a downpour at 120Kmh. I myself have a B40 Arc'Teryx backpack I bought April 4th 1999 and it's still going strong I use it weekly for groceries. I have no problem with my Icon Titanium $150 gloves from 20 years ago. But I will confidently wear my $80 Biker rain gear at 120Kph in a downpour, knowing It is waterproof at those speeds. Dainese are not just a micrometer thick goretex jacket. You speak of a lining, where it shines. But would you wear Klim. Rukka or Dainese as a biker if it was JUST the liner? I am speaking of raingear to be worn over your gear.
OK editing this so i don't sound like a dick. I would wear any one of the brands you suggest any day if my budget could afford it. But I went from a Suzuki Savage to a V star 1100 custom and I wear the same leathers on my bike I wear riding horses. I can not afford custom gear at 56 years old I may outgrow in a year as my belly grows. Happy just to be on the road. I salute you as a fellow biker sir!
@Lukiel666 So, non-biking goretex gear is a no-go, got it. I agree with that. Post-university ten years ago I destroyed a Marmot goretex jacket using it on my motorcycle. Wind, water, bugs, etc absolutely wrecked it. I'd imagine the same would happen to an Arc'teryx jacket or any other thinner goretex hiking jacket.
Actual motorcycle appropriate materials are much tougher and can stand the pelting of little rocks or shards of water. I have a Klim Latitude set and it has held up to a lot of abuse and remains waterproof. Even when the outer fabric wet out, I'd FEEL wet, but that was just water right up against the goretex. I've always been bone dry.
The main reason I replied is because I'm a huge fan of goretex motorcycle gear. It's not just protective due to the outer layer and armor, it's also the rain gear. I don't need a separate setup and there's no one-legged hopping on the side of the road desperately trying to get that other stuff on before I'm soaked. I also never found a non-goretex pair of motorcycle pants that didn't leave my crotch looking like I'm incontinent.
Arcteryx also provides a used gear shop where you can send in and purchase refurbished items at a fraction of the cost, saving you some money and helping the environment as well!
Got a pair of Gore-Tex Adidas boots and mountain Hardware pants. Top was a waterproof Columbia jacket. When out in torrential rain and puddles. Still dry. So far I love this stuff.
I don't think we need to make our clothes more "throw away/less durable". How about this instead: We shame the marketing and fashion industries that try to embarrass us into to throwing out good clothes just because they are "out of style".
hear hear!
Last time I went to buy a jacket for wearing daily on bike rides, disc golfing and general outdoor activities, I deliberately chose a thin softshell without any membrane. Breathes so much better than any Gore-Tex ever could and you can use a thin raincoat over it if needed. People use way too much waterproof jackets.
Gore-tex is a miraculous material.
Your solution is no solution.
Great video my guy, respect.
Thank you for this view I’m senior didn’t know about it well it’s very informative👍👍👍
Crazy that it is legal to manufacture something that doesn't decompose! That's the reason I haven't bought a Gore-Tex rain jacket this past year. I had a Burton rain jacket that lasted me about 10 years and it finally started to NOT be waterproof any longer. They do a "Lifetime Guarantee" on a lot of their outerwear, so I called to see if they'd replace or coat my old rain jacket or coat it in a waterproofing material. They said I'd have to mail it to them for them to see if it was possible to do that. After taking a look at the jacket, they determined that it was NOT something they'd replace (only Gore-tex products truly had a lifetime guarantee). I was offered a waterproofing spray to be applied to my old jacket that I'd have to pay for :(
Ha ha, well I had the same experience with The North Face, whose life time guarantee will NOT cover anything, unless you live in USA and it is specific products and even then they refrain from keeping their word. I don't give a toss about their socalled waranty. It's a lie. More over they used to be fairly good with their warranty, but sadly no more. It's all about pushing skinny models in new fashion clothing for the mall, out there. Same goes for Fjällräven.
No real outdoors any more.
Kind regards.
i have to disagree (somewhat) on that statement on 12:19. Cheap alternatives are as toxic or even more toxic due to poorer manufacturing process and loose regulations especially when they're from developing country (hence, it's cheaper).
Every tech is worth the hype when used in the correct conditions and at the right time. I leave a far greater value of kit at home then I ever take on exped, plan thoroughly, accept that being uncomfortable doing tiring laborious physical work is part of the journey and you will always have fun.
Oh my god dude you are one of the first on youtube to post information exactly as it should be. Without decorations and the ubiquitous logical error that only GORTEX makes the membrane, the rest gets wet. With the help of advertising, they inspired people that all coffee is made by Nescafe. One of the important places where few people look. In DVR mountain base presale, unrealistic level of Teflon compound
Yes please talk about worn wear program
Good to know there's interest, we're looking into it for a future video!!
Great video! Thanks for making me consider something I hadn't given a thought to. 😊
Glad you found it helpful ! Thanks for being here ✌
Nice video. Especially that you mentioned the gigantic problems with PTFE, too. There are always two sides.
I really enjoy your channel and I think you do a lot of good work but I'd be cautious of leaning too hard on the "it's hard to pronounce therefore it's bad" trope. Focusing on the actual evidence behind what makes these compounds problematic is compelling enough without adding fuel to the anti-science fire. Excuse me while I polish off a glass of dihydrogen monoxide ;)
worn wear, yes tell me more
👀👀
I’m torn on it , I have boots with Gore-Tex they make my feet sweat. I have to rain jackets one light weight one heavier, both work great for keeping me dry and I have had them for at least 10 years and use them both a lot while being active . I have an abdominal aortic aneurism that was repaired Gore makes the patch and here I am years later still active , still wearing the coats . Thanks for sharing very informative
Very eye-opening, thanks!
Even as a non expert, I was able to observe several errors in your video:
- Patagonia Torrentshell isn't Goretex as some other commenters have noted, it's an alternative called H2NO
-you kept saying 'the moon' but showing space station astronauts, the timeline didn't line up for using goretext fabric on the moon, so I looked it up, it turns out the cables using PTFE were used in Apollo missions and Gore Tex fabric was used in space shuttle suits, so you weren't totally off but should have made this clearer.
- 'Ulcerative colirosis' isn't a thing, you mean 'Ulcerative colitis'
If I as a casual observer can find 3 mistakes on my first watch through, what haven't I noticed and is an inaccuracy I'm taking as fact. Please try to do more research and get the facts right next time.
Trying to find info about h2no. Is it not e-PTFE, if not what is it chemically?
You are falling into the trap of "environmentalism", seeing only the cost of pollution and not its much greater benefits. Think about the amount of money saved by the huge public that enjoys nature, that means that it also saves a lot of pollutants produced by all the other companies that manufacture similar clothing and that compared to Gore-Tex they seem even disposable, without exaggeration. In addition, the user himself spends less in the long term, involving less work to obtain a good product, thus reducing the user's own pollution for said purchase. So, yes, it gets contaminated all of a sudden, but this contamination pays for itself with the great durability of the garments. In this sense, also think about the user's own contamination when spending long days outdoors, which ends up being much lower than if they wore clothes that get wet or easily damaged... All this ends up resulting in a very positive balance between the carbon footprint generated and the useful life of the product, which concludes in low pollution, that is, in high energy, economic and ecological efficiency...
It’s a tough choice to make because I can appreciate your argument as well as theirs near the end of your video. Those second hand options potentially only exist because this material is so durable. We as consumers need to change the market because unfortunately the market has shown it won’t change without the government or buyers forcing them to do so. Vote with your dollar as they say.
I use goretex for extreme hiking. I was ignorant to how it was made and the dreadful effects the manufacture process has on people 😒.
I was looking for a new one for this springs mountain hiking in Scotland.
Thank goodness I stumbled across your video.
Now I must change and find alternatives to keep me dry.
Thank you very much for educating me today on the truth about Gore-Tex. Despite its excellent waterproofing and breathe ability its poison to us all.
It's bloody expensive too. I may save a few £'s on my future purchases.
it worked good for me, I never once wore the bear suit in AK in while in an infantry unit. I have been down to temps that would make Mars seem warm, if it is really cold there is no moisture, but you need a layer that is cold on the outside and not so cold on the inside. One time I got separated from my unit during the winter, they jumped while I was walking back from commo related tasks. It took me 2 days find shelter to make a long story short. Dead of the winter outside for 2 days with nothing but a Gore-Tex jacket and pants, wool socks and VB boots, mittens, and a baklava.
I had no idea the impacts from Gore-Tex fabrics. I am fortunate enough to own one and loved it for rainy days or as a shell for skiing. After seeing this video I am going to keep this jacket in my possession for the rest of my life and potentially pass it down to my children 😂 if it will last that long.
really enjoyed this clip, very good made and entertaining. learned a lot thanks
This is why I always tell people to check out thrift shops for this stuff before they spend all the money.
having the patagonia indestructible shorts ad just make this video even better...