The problem is once you set the bolt to 5Nm it actually takes more than 5Nm to move it again because of stiction so the test will not be too accurate, the best way would be to mark the bolt head in relation to the stem to see how far it moves with each torque wrench, another way would be using a fish scale to pull the handle to see how much weight is required before you hear the click.
Gee, do you think Clint already knows that? The best calibrations are certified traceable back to the National Institute of Standards and Technology. You also have to insure the device is sound. The closer to the originating standard, the more the certification costs, the more it's worth. So what would any old fish scale tell you. They are only +- 4% Park, +- 2% Vanpo. Unless defective, or damaged should be good enough. That's my opinion based upon my experience and knowledge. Come to your own conclusions. Your fish scale, or weight hung by a wire, by an equal mass at equal length would be another indicator, not a sourced referenced measurement, but maybe useful information. Thing is, I would trust weight-distance over a scale, because it doesn't change that much. But for commercial scales they're NIST traceable standards verified. I used to verify the weights to verify the scales. Did the same with temperature, chart the variance, and other things. So if ya want to Mr. MTBfix go do. Have at it! Tell us what you find, And across their entire range while your being accurate!! God bless.
@@flashwashington2735 Hey, what's your opinion on those little square digital torque adapters? Are they any good? It seems they don't need to be calibrated, work both ways, they have wide of torque, and they're accurate even on both ends of the range! so they seem really good for their price point!
@@LLF1234 MATATAKITOYO - Wireless Torque Multiplier Operating Temperature : -5℃~55℃ Storage Temperature : -20℃~70℃ Humidity : 0~90％ Frequency : 2.4GHz Battery : 1.5V UM-4 (AAA)*3 (Do not use low self-discharge battery) Distance : 20m WET Wireless Torque Adaptor Wireless Torque Adaptor Direction & Accuracy : C.W. ±1% / C.C.W. ±1.5% Torque Ratio : low energy input with high torque output ensures operator safety. Supplied in a plastic box. Relatively expensive, accurate, repeatable, Certified, can be repaired and calibrated. AC Delco: Model Number ARM602-4 $59. 49 Drive 1/2" Square Accuracy * CW ± 2%; CCW ± 3% Measured Torque Range 14.8-147.6 ft-lbs (20-200 Nm) Resolution 1 kg-cm, 0.1 N-m, 1 in-lb, 0.1 ft-lb Auto Shut-Off After 1 Minute of No Use Operation Temperature 0-50°C Storage Temperature -10-60°C Battery 2 x CR2032 (included) Tool Weight 0.44 lbs (0.20 kg) EAN 4716872170715 * Accuracy Rating applies from 20% to max torque. Example: Torque range with max. 100 ft-lbs will have stated accuracy rating between 20~100 ft-lbs. Can't get parts for repair, no reputable calibration shop will touch it. It cost less then the calibration cost of the former. What are you doing, to what standard and why? I see posts all over telling people to buy a $40 - 60.00 1/2 inch torque wrench for busting and tightening lug nuts. While it can be worthwhile to torque your lugs when tightening you should never use it for busting them loose. But they don't tell people, 'Buy a $20 HFT breaker bar, and if you care to, a $60 torque wrench. They don't read, nor follow instructions, over torque the studs, breaking them and the wrench. Then go on to bad mouth the tool and manufacturer to anyone who will listen. And a few are happy and content with their $60.00 torque indicating "breaker bar." So why do you need it? what is accuracy to you? Do you follow instructions and take care of things? do you, your customers, or UA-cam audience require certified accuracy? They do their job well within expectations seasoned with a little reality. I have never needed, nor cared to possess and care for them. Ask yourself the right questions, in the right spirit. Then in the right spirit answer them: and you will do well by yourself. God bless.
I've invested a lot in Park tools. They tend to be pricey. My thought were to save some money and get a tool that has a wider range of torque measurements.@@JitinMisra
could you talk about calibration , like when and how often should you send the torque wrench for calibration ? i didn't know this, but you are not supposed to untighten items with torque wrench...
the way I calibrate my torque wrenches (my bigger ones ). I mount mine in a bench vise....and then hang a weight ...say 30lbs....and then set the tool to 30lbs (if you hang it 12 inches from the ratchet head...if different distance...then do the math). The wrench should hold its position with said weight and setting. with a light touch the tool should then click . if not...then you have to see how far off it is with whatever setting . that is how I check mine.
If the tool isn't damaged, and it's performed at settings that you use, It should be a good enough indicator of desired torque. Provided that it's highly repeatable.
Not torque wrenches. Click torque wrenches! You get the gold star!! But he did all the work! Thank you for this sir. I never fathomed this, nor bothered to work it out. This humble man is a treasure, Subscribed. I like my understanding with extra sauce, The Bike Sauce!! God bless you Mr. Wiman.
@@flashwashington2735 Relatively easy to post something like "i paid $xx" or " as of March 1st it cost $xx". It was a mere suggestion to make it easier for some of us viewers. No need for you to be a d*ck.
And extend the life of conventional parts. Ensure things stay together not fall apart or fail you at the time of trial. I disassembled a bottom bracket needing solvent, 1200 inch pound impact wrench and heating to 400°F heat with 20 inch wrench, with 3 foot cheater, standing and bouncing 265 lbs. of me on the end. I sure as hell don't want to torque any more than necessary!!! I will use a torque wrench. I will use Park blue threadlocker to seal out salt and corrosion. And while I was NOT looking for a problem, the problem ambushed me. You already digressed.
Sounds like something got stuck and you near ruined it. At that point dealing with relatively thin wall tubing of a bicycle frame, the hacksaw, drill, and or grinder would have been smarter. As to torque wrenches it’s been proven that an experienced mechanic not using one is as accurate as someone using a torque wrench. If you think that statement doesn’t make sense, then you don’t yet understand…
@@johnschmidt2766 "It has been proven" where's the proof of what you're talking about? Funny thing as I've read the exact opposite, with mechanics being way off from the torque while keeping their pride really high, trying to say the torque reader was wrong or blaming other things. I could even understand if your comment was something like stating they don't calibrate their torque tool so it's as efficient as "feeling the torque" or something. But a human arm will not be able to "feel" a proper torque. I don't trust anyone saying they can "feel" the proper torque, they don't know shit about it. If you test those who claim that, they'll always fail.
@@LLF1234 Its in Machinery's handbook... And I said an "experienced" mechanic. Which probably has a different meaning for different people. It has nothing to do with Torque. You can have the world's most accurate torque wrench and it's still not necessarily going to give an accurate end result. For a lot more read: Chapter 7 [p213 to p268] (Torque Control of Bolt Preload) in the book "An Introduction to the Design and Behavior of Bolted Joints" 3rd Edition. Bickford.
The problem is once you set the bolt to 5Nm it actually takes more than 5Nm to move it again because of stiction so the test will not be too accurate, the best way would be to mark the bolt head in relation to the stem to see how far it moves with each torque wrench, another way would be using a fish scale to pull the handle to see how much weight is required before you hear the click.
Gee, do you think Clint already knows that? The best calibrations are certified traceable back to the National Institute of Standards and Technology. You also have to insure the device is sound. The closer to the originating standard, the more the certification costs, the more it's worth. So what would any old fish scale tell you. They are only +- 4% Park, +- 2% Vanpo. Unless defective, or damaged should be good enough. That's my opinion based upon my experience and knowledge. Come to your own conclusions.
Your fish scale, or weight hung by a wire, by an equal mass at equal length would be another indicator, not a sourced referenced measurement, but maybe useful information. Thing is, I would trust weight-distance over a scale, because it doesn't change that much. But for commercial scales they're NIST traceable standards verified. I used to verify the weights to verify the scales. Did the same with temperature, chart the variance, and other things. So if ya want to Mr. MTBfix go do. Have at it! Tell us what you find, And across their entire range while your being accurate!! God bless.
@@flashwashington2735 Hey, what's your opinion on those little square digital torque adapters? Are they any good? It seems they don't need to be calibrated, work both ways, they have wide of torque, and they're accurate even on both ends of the range! so they seem really good for their price point!
@@LLF1234 MATATAKITOYO - Wireless Torque Multiplier
Operating Temperature : -5℃~55℃
Storage Temperature : -20℃~70℃
Humidity : 0~90％
Frequency : 2.4GHz
Battery : 1.5V UM-4 (AAA)*3 (Do not use low self-discharge battery)
Distance : 20m
WET Wireless Torque Adaptor
Wireless Torque Adaptor
Direction & Accuracy : C.W. ±1% / C.C.W. ±1.5%
Torque Ratio : low energy input with high torque output ensures operator safety.
Supplied in a plastic box.
Relatively expensive, accurate, repeatable, Certified, can be repaired and calibrated.
AC Delco:
Model Number
ARM602-4 $59.
49
Drive
1/2" Square
Accuracy *
CW ± 2%; CCW ± 3%
Measured Torque Range
14.8-147.6 ft-lbs (20-200 Nm)
Resolution
1 kg-cm, 0.1 N-m, 1 in-lb, 0.1 ft-lb
Auto Shut-Off
After 1 Minute of No Use
Operation Temperature
0-50°C
Storage Temperature
-10-60°C
Battery
2 x CR2032 (included)
Tool Weight
0.44 lbs (0.20 kg)
EAN 4716872170715
* Accuracy Rating applies from 20% to max torque. Example: Torque range with max. 100 ft-lbs will have stated accuracy rating between 20~100 ft-lbs.
Can't get parts for repair, no reputable calibration shop will touch it. It cost less then the calibration cost of the former. What are you doing, to what standard and why? I see posts all over telling people to buy a $40 - 60.00 1/2 inch torque wrench for busting and tightening lug nuts. While it can be worthwhile to torque your lugs when tightening you should never use it for busting them loose. But they don't tell people, 'Buy a $20 HFT breaker bar, and if you care to, a $60 torque wrench. They don't read, nor follow instructions, over torque the studs, breaking them and the wrench. Then go on to bad mouth the tool and manufacturer to anyone who will listen. And a few are happy and content with their $60.00 torque indicating "breaker bar."
So why do you need it? what is accuracy to you? Do you follow instructions and take care of things? do you, your customers, or UA-cam audience require certified accuracy? They do their job well within expectations seasoned with a little reality. I have never needed, nor cared to possess and care for them. Ask yourself the right questions, in the right spirit. Then in the right spirit answer them: and you will do well by yourself. God bless.
Love your videos ❤
I have the park tools T-handle 4-6nm
anything past 6nm isn’t so critical
Thanks for the update. One possibility from your experiment is both torque wrenches can be equally inaccurate. Highly unlikely but still possible.
Clint, after watching you video, I purchased the Vanpo from Amazon. So far, so good.
did you ever consider the park tool one ?
I've invested a lot in Park tools. They tend to be pricey. My thought were to save some money and get a tool that has a wider range of torque measurements.@@JitinMisra
very interesting, I didn't expect them to be right on like that.
Good follow up 👏
pro tip, never let your buddies use ur torque wrench, you will never get it back. thanks nolan!
Noted…don’t lend tools to Nolan.
Or get it back damaged as happened to me. Go to use it and can't.
Sound Basis observing fundamentals. Thank you.
Do you have the Park Tool ATD-1.2? I find this tool the easiest for cockpit and seat adjustments.
I do not have that one
I have that Park Tool and it is very convenient for doing the majority of torquing on a bike.
Thanks for video response Clint. Now for your next project: is the calibration the same at different/higher torque specs😂😂😂
I’ll let you do that one 🙂
could you talk about calibration , like when and how often should you send the torque wrench for calibration ? i didn't know this, but you are not supposed to untighten items with torque wrench...
the way I calibrate my torque wrenches (my bigger ones ). I mount mine in a bench vise....and then hang a weight ...say 30lbs....and then set the tool to 30lbs (if you hang it 12 inches from the ratchet head...if different distance...then do the math). The wrench should hold its position with said weight and setting. with a light touch the tool should then click . if not...then you have to see how far off it is with whatever setting . that is how I check mine.
If the tool isn't damaged, and it's performed at settings that you use, It should be a good enough indicator of desired torque. Provided that it's highly repeatable.
I much prefer the Park Tool.
And here is the REALLY deep rabbit hole about torque wrenches. 🙂ua-cam.com/video/0f746pF1xc0/v-deo.html
Not torque wrenches. Click torque wrenches! You get the gold star!! But he did all the work! Thank you for this sir. I never fathomed this, nor bothered to work it out. This humble man is a treasure, Subscribed. I like my understanding with extra sauce, The Bike Sauce!! God bless you Mr. Wiman.
Just a suggestion for comparisons like this one. Tell us the prices so the viewer doesnt have to Google the TW5. Thanks
Hit the "show more" tab, you'll find a link to the Vanpo on Amazon. Because prices do change often, it really makes little sense to quote prices.
Because googling is so hard!! You do know that prices change ALL the time. Even without 27% inflation. Do you?🙂🙃😉
@@flashwashington2735 Relatively easy to post something like "i paid $xx" or " as of March 1st it cost $xx". It was a mere suggestion to make it easier for some of us viewers. No need for you to be a d*ck.
Ahh torque wrenches for bikes : imho it’s a solution looking for a problem… but let’s not digress ..
They can save carbon components. I know from experience.
And extend the life of conventional parts. Ensure things stay together not fall apart or fail you at the time of trial. I disassembled a bottom bracket needing solvent, 1200 inch pound impact wrench and heating to 400°F heat with 20 inch wrench, with 3 foot cheater, standing and bouncing 265 lbs. of me on the end. I sure as hell don't want to torque any more than necessary!!! I will use a torque wrench. I will use Park blue threadlocker to seal out salt and corrosion. And while I was NOT looking for a problem, the problem ambushed me. You already digressed.
Sounds like something got stuck and you near ruined it. At that point dealing with relatively thin wall tubing of a bicycle frame, the hacksaw, drill, and or grinder would have been smarter.
As to torque wrenches it’s been proven that an experienced mechanic not using one is as accurate as someone using a torque wrench. If you think that statement doesn’t make sense, then you don’t yet understand…
@@johnschmidt2766 "It has been proven" where's the proof of what you're talking about? Funny thing as I've read the exact opposite, with mechanics being way off from the torque while keeping their pride really high, trying to say the torque reader was wrong or blaming other things.
I could even understand if your comment was something like stating they don't calibrate their torque tool so it's as efficient as "feeling the torque" or something. But a human arm will not be able to "feel" a proper torque.
I don't trust anyone saying they can "feel" the proper torque, they don't know shit about it. If you test those who claim that, they'll always fail.
@@LLF1234 Its in Machinery's handbook... And I said an "experienced" mechanic. Which probably has a different meaning for different people. It has nothing to do with Torque. You can have the world's most accurate torque wrench and it's still not necessarily going to give an accurate end result. For a lot more read: Chapter 7 [p213 to p268] (Torque Control of Bolt Preload) in the book "An Introduction to the Design and Behavior of Bolted Joints" 3rd Edition. Bickford.