Thank you for this. This has solved a cosmic scale quandary I’ve been having since my husband passed away. He was a HUGE South Park fan and this goes a long way to explain how his process may have worked. I always marveled at the amazing things he did and tried to ask questions to better understand his approach, but he never ceased to blow me away in the most unexpected ways. Now he’s gone and I can’t ask, I just have to figure it out, and one of the things I miss most is that wow-ing zing of unexpected. And this has been incredibly illuminating. Thank you for providing this widow some insight into the most amazing person she ever knew.
10 years ago I started a recording project based heavily on live-to-stereo ambient improvisations. I grew to love it so much because of the indeterminacy of it all! My big rule became simple: NO DO-OVERS! Everything happens in real time! If you make a mistake you have to respond to it like it’s a part of the music. I now take joy in my “happy accidents” and am much more likely to take risks, knowing that it will all encourage me to explore new worlds of music!
That's one strategy. But the opposite also works well. The ability to remove mistakes or revert to previous saves, etc., allows for experimentation without fear. "What if.." is a good thing for most hobbyist musicians. Reckless experimentations. Keep yhe flawed takes... certainly. There may be some gold to mine in there. Also, what genres or styles are you referring to that you are live recording?
@@fakshen1973 It’s mostly driven around ambient music, which loans itself nicely to the mindset. The music offers a sense of spaciousness, so there’s time to reflect and respond to what you are doing. If it were free form jazz, I would certainly be lost!
You’d love Robert Rich if you aren’t already familiar with him. He used to do crazy long live improvised ambient sets for people in San Francisco to sleep to
Possibly your most inspiring video so far and one close to my heart. I grew up in the 70's and 80's when every new song we heard seemed to give us something completely different. Maybe the style, the sounds, the voice, the lyrics, the look. Nothing seemed predictable. Now hardly anything seems new or different. Occasionally an artist like Sia comes along and you get that massive buzz of excitement from somebody being totally original but it's very rare. The Beatles had three guys pulling in different directions, Bowie had his jumbled up news cuttings, Stevie Wonder had his genius, but I think we all need to start with the premise "I don't want to create something that has already been done, I want it to be different and new'. Of course, like you say, along the way it will get shaped by our conventions and prejudices but at least we're giving ourselves a chance. As the La La La song says... A bit of madness is key To give us new colours to see Who knows where it will lead us? And that's why they need us So bring on the rebels The ripples from pebbles The painters, and poets, and plays And here's to the fools who dream Crazy as they may seem Here's to the hearts that break Here's to the mess we make! 😎
Since I write as well as compose, I love ideas like this that link different forms of art together. There's a well-known maxim for writers, by the way: conflict comes from "yes, but" and "no, and": Does the hero successfully climb the tower? YES, BUT the killer has already got away. Does the team manage to find a boat? NO, AND the water has already covered the causeway. These bring fresh challenges each time, and keep the stakes high. "yes, and" and "no, but" have a more reassuring mood, but lack conflict. Although they can sometimes be useful if you need a break from the action and want to pause for some character development or whatever. Does the child pass the exam? YES, AND better still, they get an offer from a local college. Does the monster fall into the trap? NO, BUT it turns out it was on their side all along. I have long thought that these rules might have parallels in music. Sometimes it's good to subvert expectations, and sometimes people want the comfort of predictability.
I was contemplating this concept a little bit ago and I think "and then" syndrome is not bad per say, or at least in the beginning. I say this because it may help with stuff like finishing an album/continuing a client product to be consistent. I think where the problem begins to emerge is where you never change that process, even after achieving what you wanted from that process
@@waterboyrene1241 I can't speak for the OP but I can relate. "and then" often leads to what Cameron described in the first example as "the natural resolution". There's usually a basis for that, theoretical or based on what we've been conditioned to expect. It can be an easier or quicker way to put a piece together or complete it. Take a standard chord progression like Am, G, F... a natural resolution would be G back to Am (like the last minutes of Stairway To Heaven). Or Am, G, F, E (kinda Spanish or like Stray Cat Strut. Quick, easy and safe. Natural resolutions. "But" & "therefore" can lead to something more unique, whether you find a resolution thru lots of trial & error (time consuming) or a reasonably solid foundation in theory. So instead one might end up with Am, G, F, B flat (Am) or Am, G, F, Em, Dm, C, B flat, B flat (Am). The same can be applicable in terms of stylistic choices. In the case of dealing with a client, they might think, well that's not what I was expecting. Sometimes they're not looking for different, creative or unique but instead will judge based on their pre-conceived expectations. Like expecting a happy ending to a movie. And in the context of a larger project it might not feel appropriate, for example it might feel "forced" or not consistant with what's already been created/established. Different just for the sake of being different (like forcing odd meter time signatures into a pop song). I think the OP's last paragraph is self-explanatory, particularly in reference to one's own compositions & habits.
Everybody talks about telling a story with your music, but nobody does anything about it. Until now. Thanks, Cameron! The “and then” idea reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons episodes which ends with the fam discussing what the moral of the story was. Homer suggests that maybe there was no moral. It was “just a bunch of stuff that happened.” Which is all the funnier, of course, because it was anything but that.
This video is actually more profound than many would realize - their loss (looking at you, Weaver). Easy to miss the nuggets if you don't pay attention, but actual practical information for those willing to listen carefully.
I love the tension between trying to keep things fresh and the need to 'woodshed' with your instrument. Traditional instruments really do repay deliberate practice and the development of muscle memory that comes from repetition, but if you want to make unboring art, then you need to get outside your comfort zone. It's a tension I'm very conscious of as a folk singer singing mainly unaccompanied traditional songs. What keeps things fresh for me is definitely collaboration.
you're such a great content creator and it's amazing just how frequently and how much of this high quality content you put out. for free on youtube, no less. thank you.
I've seen a bit where the Spongebob creators do a similar thing: any idea is valid, and then linking those off-the-wall ideas into a series of "natural events" (you don't want to lose the viewer/listener) into one coherent piece. So you still have structure, of course, but within that arc, the unexpected happens. Great stuff, and a valuable way of reminding us to actually be creative.
I like listening to your rants - it's almost like a calming yoga session, just letting the sounds wash over you, the information slowly seeping in. I also love the end of this video, brought a huge smile to my face, you guys are adorable! :)
I absolutely love this idea. Anything to make something less formulaic. As long as the listener isn’t left salivating like Pavlov’s dog, all things are possible. I think we’re all so accustomed to getting resolution, that unless we get our musical ‘Scooby Snack’, we’re left wondering why the song feels incomplete even if we aren’t cognitively understanding it. Yay pop music or some shit.
This can also be called "breaking the routine" as described by Keith Johnson in "Impro" (1959). Every time an audience has got the "routine", ie: has an expectation, you head off in a new direction (related but unexpected).
I saw Bigger, Longer, Uncut at a midnight show with a crazy crowd and it was an awesome experience. And part of that was that I didn't expect it to be such a great musical. I really vibed with that part of the movie and it still holds up all these years later.
Well put! I think it’s important to set aside time to create without time limits, and explore sonic options for your exact reasons. Sometimes a standard routine can get in the way of the desire to create good art amirite
I actually think my music needs to have more "and then" moments because all of it seems to be "but" or "therefore" to the point you lose the predictability of a catchy song. On the other hand, my process DOES need to change because I... don't really have one, and then I just end up not finishing any of my half written music as I really should be doing should, never mind creating anything new!
It's clear how much effort you put into these videos. The writing and editing are so good. And your voice🤩 This seems like such a simple concept, but opens so many avenues. I definitely have some tools and habits I need to pay more attention to, and try to deviate from. Gonna take a lot practice to implement this. Thank you for what you do 👍
Great stuff. Sometimes, when reading fiction from friends or students, the "and then" wasn't there, mainly because all of the standard training hadn't been drilled into their work; this made the results unpredictable, and (occasionally) more interesting. Once students are told "You must do this" they get scared to try anything new or weird. I think the hardest part of being an artist of any kind is to lose that instinct to always do what is expected. Sometimes we just need to play, like you said. We did that when we were very young because we didn't know the "rules".
Your tips and tricks have been quite helpful to me. I've always been searching for a way to marry my "electronic" music sensibilities with my "acoustic/organic" sensibilities. Your single loop trickery and stretching trick was a game changer. I've always fought against being placed in "a" box. I want all of the boxes. Your sentiment here reminds me of a Grateful Dead line that always stuck with me, "And the music played the band." If you get out of your box and do something you're not quite comfortable with... well then you let the music guide you. Funny how the terms "Muse" and "Music" are so similar.
I massively respect you. I love how genuine you are with your platform, and your dedication to crafting quality sounds and videos is truly inspiring and enriching. Thanks for all of your hard work!
Another elucidating and highly articulate examination of the whole creative process, regardless what medium one works in. Thanks for the thoughtful, high-quality content on your channel that makes it always worth watching. 👍
My problem (well one of them) is that I play TOO much and never get around to actually recording my happy accidents. It’s almost like I fear hearing my own creations.
I've been enjoying your videos for several months. They're smart, insightful, and honest. And you have an infuriatingly excellent voice for it. Today, I finally listened to your music. It is so. damn. good. It's moody, atmospheric, calm, and pretty. Also, it's impeccably produced, of course. For those who haven't check it out, do yourself a favor and give it a close listen.
❤ This video helped me a lot last night on a project. Throughout, I found myself thinking about the sections less as linear and more as responsive. I also felt a lot freer when I went to change gears. Less lost in ‘what do I do next’. Reminds me a bit of improv. Thanks.
4:21 "...the idea of 'butt' is equally powerful..." You don't say... "...the idea of 'butt' is one of the more powerful tools we have as creators..." I'M SORRY. LOL
One of the most famous examples of the "but..." might be from Hamlet "Hamlet, believing it is Claudius, stabs wildly, killing Polonius, but he pulls aside the curtain and sees his mistake."
wow Cameron, very inspiring message! Agree, playing is essential in every creative process. For me, creating electronic music has everything to do with experimentation. Keep up the great work!
“Yes,but” in your music might just need the nudge I needed. I’ve never been really excited about my own work, because it never surprises me. This framework demands you to surprise yourself.
I'm not saying I'm a good musician (I'm most assuredly not), but what I found worked for switching things up in my process was trashing a previous one and creating new ones the second I got bored with the original. I like to create a list of options with song construction and then use a random number generator for the next option. It often did lead me down unexpected paths that were, at the very least, fun to pursue due to the chance nature. A song could go in an infinite number of directions and that was exciting to play around with.
My English teacher back in High School said if you join two connecting with "and then" then they don't gel well together, you should focus on developing cause and effect relationships being naturally occurring rather than a sequence of events joined by a string of unrelated "and then" statements. Glad to see that this idea is still being taught. You should always think about what comes next as a result of what comes before, what feels natural instead of jumping ahead and not allowing statements to flow together.
Functional harmony is a very oldschool version of this "but" and "therefore" concept. Functional harmony is so important to storytelling because of this. (NOT strict common practice period 4-part voice leading rules)
This video helped me get more perspective on a dilemma I’ve ran into with some of the new content I’ve put out and figuring out why my newest video didn’t do as well as the previous video and the reason was because the newest video was a story told with many “and thens” in it but the writing in the video before had “but” and “therefore” more often which I feel made it more compelling. I saw this clip of trey Parker and Matt stone a while ago but it didn’t fully resonate with me until you talked about it so thank you for the deep dive on it! Also I love how when you were translating the concept to chord progressions how you basically played a progression that vibed kind of like something Radiohead would make. I feel this concept may be the key to their success as well. At least what makes it interesting IMO
ahh cam my dude this was JUST what i needed for my recent woes and i am about to venture into a whole new project. This was rather a wholesome and Stoic video this time round and paired with south park as its plot focus; perfect, absolutely fucking perfect!! Your lady's joke at the end of the video was the cherry and whipped cream this video needed 10/10
Many of my sessions that I start with a clear picture in my head of what I want to do end up in frustration. Then, after continuing to explore and mess around, my best creations start to come out.
Matt and Trey are amazing. But and Therefore completely explain Book of Mormon(one of my favorite musicals). But that is kinda what they were going for...
Okay, this whole "but..." and "therefore" thing legit had me thinking about some tracks I've done There was one track where I was thinking "Okay, I have this melody, BUT maybe I can reharmonize that melody and have that come in somewhere... THEREFORE, there's more variation and harmonic context for the listener" There was another one where I started with this orchestral intro... BUT I ended up making a slow experimental/lofi drop for that intro to lean into... THEREFORE adding some contrast and dynamic range to the song... I've never thought of it that way! This is the type of info that'll help many artists to come!
Not watching anything gives me the best output of my own pure ideas and 'inspiration'. Then it all comes from that golden flow, of which we don't have a clue where it comes from. And because there is nothing to refer to, it comes in its most strong version.
Thanks, I needed this reinforcement. I’d been contemplating this a while. I’m trying to force myself to play things that are definitively not my comfort zone or muscle memory “go to’s” but I also realize making a conscious effort to do that is still kind of missing the point. Need to work on just letting the subconscious part happen. Kind of funny how I can’t get out of my own way sometimes with the creative process.
I always have this idea of turning my musical idea to opposite direction of whatever it is.. High notes to low notes, long notes to short notes, synth pattern to drum pattern etc. But actually never did it, because I got carried on with the initial idea lol
Good one! This reminded me of Pyramid harmony that the Beatles were so fond of. I would put up a link, but unfortunately the site that did the analysis is down. Pyramid harmony is easy enough and revealing as to how it gave the Beatles a plethora of options to answer the but and therefore questions. Very useful way to find new harmonies, chords, melodic notes that one wouldn't naturally come up with, yet they are atill closely related to original key, so it doesnt sound suddenly out of place. Anyway Pyramid Harmony.
Man.. Great content. Such an insightful notion we should all be aware of but tend to forget in the ramalamb of every day tasks and robotic motions. Appreciated the ad lib touch from your special guest at the end ha ha.
I’ve been doing that in my compositions. A decent amount of therefores and some random buts. I tend to change something in one of the instruments (guitar bass drums keys strings) every phrase repetition. So if the bass does the same thing, I might change the lead guitar to doing scale runs in the same chord progression when in the previous iteration it was sustained power chords. And I do that with different pieces and different times with each riff segment. So there’s sonic continuity but it evolves within its own parameters
You should try explaining the biases that occur when creating songs and how the selection of them,even ideas can make you step out from writing in a subjective way affected by certain biases. In short why being really selective is the key of writing,because being selective is everything.We all write boring and shit,but when you have 600 variants,thats something else,or how Warren Buffett put it:The difference between successful people and really successful people is that really successful people say no to almost anything.
Cameron this is going to sound like a backhanded compliment, but: i love your videos, because i almost never finish watching them. I often end up getting an idea halfway through, close UA-cam, and go write something. Which I'm about to do now. So thanks 🎉
11:03 While it might sound like mere semantics, I've found that limits allow more framework from which a process can be created. I suppose it's similar to the differing approaches of one illustrator who focuses on the negative space while the other on silhouette. For example, instead of saying "I won't limit myself to Sytrus (my workhorse synth)," I set a limit of NOT using Sytrus. "Add a new midi track, but I won't use Sytrus, therefore I'll see what I can make with this 200ms long white noise sample." Even if everything else is the same, that one different species of butterfly flapping its wings creates a whole cascade of new consequences which can then branch out into new outcomes. Overall though, I think it still leads us to similar places where you don't have to throw the process out entirely, but give the process room to breathe. The only danger, for myself at least, is removing too much of the process framework might take what seemed like an innocent break from my favorite synth into a two month rabbit hole of building my own synth from scratch with MaxMSP, which while educational, leaves me with a feeling of overall regret as my heart is in being prolific with the best music I can make, not rampant experimentation. So I wonder what the extreme opposite of efficient laziness would be- unproductive enthusiasm perhaps? In that case, maybe the pendulum is constantly going back and forth and in various degrees, as we strive to actually finish what we start, but without arriving at a predictable and comfortable outcome.
a couple of hours after watching this video i was able to relate to my own productions and thought i'd share how: I start with a very minimal and sparse intro THEREFORE the lowend drops in super hard. the phrase goes for 7 bars, BUT the kicks get syncopated on the 8th to keep things fresh. this will still get boring THEREFORE there is big breakdown. it builds THEREFORE it should drop, BUT instead i keep a bar of silence before dropping full force
I found the Lyra-8, with it's actual intention to rejig the "slate" has really changed my practical sense of time and harmonic/melodic structure. Similarly the Osmose gives a new intimacy to the process of real-time sound design, with its played "envelopes" and a newly internalised capacity to play with the insides of chords.
I think there's a problem with the easy idea of "flow state" which is misunderstood as just the following the line of least resistance, rather than the more potentially confrontational and interruptive possibilities of genuine openness
@@spridgejuice Exactly!! Flow state is in regards to concentration and applying skills to a challenge. Doing things deeply, and with intention and being immersed in the session are some of the main tenets of flow state. Thanks for reminding me because when I mention "flow state" in real life conversations I also think people misunderstand it's true meaning.
Absolutely ,our instruments ain’t gonna change,……we have to. Same with Human conditions, injuries….it’s up to us the individual, no easy fix or solution ✌️
I rewatches the video multiple times and I can't understand what it's about. What is "and then"? How does it translate to composition? What is "but therefore"? Whaaaaaa
I watch your video and get instantly reminded of deadmau5 who is eloboratly known for a percetion of call and response, but due to him and the pandemic, where he streamed a lot and also showcased some songs, people sent to him via donation, there was this artist called RAWT. Joel even said something like: That's a level I want to be at technically and productionwise someday. The songs are not linear, except the song length, because he varies a lot, in beats, sound design and even call and response. After the first thirty seconds of listening, you think: "okay, this belongs definetly to the song, but is something dragged from another parallel universe or dimension, that still suits it."
I really like this and appreciate the careful thought. Thank you. Have you read the Rick Rubin book on creativity? You might like that. My “critical” comment for the day is this… often when we talk about creativity we default to arguments about what is going to generate the best or most original output. The implied assumption is that “better creativity” is defined by “better output” (and we can talk for hours about what exactly constitutes better output). But what if creativity is done for its own sake? To simply be in the “flow state” of creating? Suppose I love making music but I have no realistic hope or concern that more than 10 people are ever going to hear what I make. What matters then is whether I got totally lost and absorbed in the experience of making it. That’s the goal. If I make a loop and it never turns into a “song” it doesn’t matter because I was totally absorbed for 2 hours while I made it. I’m not saying that this is the only way to think about creativity but it seems like we quickly abandon this idea and go back to talking about making the “best output”. Most of the people watching this channel are probably better described as people who do something other than music for a living and who only make music for the pure thrill of making it. How would advice for creativity be different if that was the goal? Maybe it would only make sense to “ change it up” when the experience gets less exciting or fun? Just a thought. Love all your work. Keep doing it.
You can make reverb whit a cheap speaker a cheap microphone and a middle priced interface... But the secret is how...😅 You have to figure it out but It's simple so you Will!
And yet, using but and therefore gives the impression that the author started writing before planning the journey, replacing “ and then” but improvising with discordant connections. Maybe.
This is a great insight VT. And one that I needed to discover. 'But and therefore'. I do get bored with my writing a lot. Therefore... I will have a go with this tonight. :)
As a person who studies film makes edm as a hobby, and a amateur instrument player. Yha, this is great advise. Now if only some genres of edm will listen. :p
My favorite episode is Season 9: Free Willzyx... the one where you see a police sketch of all the boys; I love all the detail and the dumb looks they have.
funny, I was looking at the same video not that long ago, and it was a crucial realisation.. much more useful than the usual storytelling narrative/steps.
So...best South Park episode?
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The Movie. The musical work that Trey & Marc Shaiman wrote for that movie is phenomenal.
The black friday game of thrones parody trilogy
Big Gay Al's Gay Boat Ride..
🔥🔥🌹🥀⛽️🎭🌹🔥🔥
Really really great work here yourself....
Broski 🤘
The World of Warcraft Episode
Thank you for this. This has solved a cosmic scale quandary I’ve been having since my husband passed away. He was a HUGE South Park fan and this goes a long way to explain how his process may have worked. I always marveled at the amazing things he did and tried to ask questions to better understand his approach, but he never ceased to blow me away in the most unexpected ways. Now he’s gone and I can’t ask, I just have to figure it out, and one of the things I miss most is that wow-ing zing of unexpected. And this has been incredibly illuminating. Thank you for providing this widow some insight into the most amazing person she ever knew.
I just want to say that this is beautiful and I’m sorry for your loss
Why are you hijacking a comment section to talk about yourself?
Saw the "And then" clip on Twitter and it went mega viral. Guess it struck a chord...
It's good to express ourselves.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I like how you take the concept of storytelling with a musical approach. It really helps me process the idea behind it.
I like how he said butt like a hundred times. That was awesome..
@@SineEyed therefore butts are great when they fit a beautiful body
Music is a storytelling form
It should go without saying you’re one of the best storytelling teachers on here. Thanks for all the content.
10 years ago I started a recording project based heavily on live-to-stereo ambient improvisations. I grew to love it so much because of the indeterminacy of it all! My big rule became simple: NO DO-OVERS! Everything happens in real time! If you make a mistake you have to respond to it like it’s a part of the music. I now take joy in my “happy accidents” and am much more likely to take risks, knowing that it will all encourage me to explore new worlds of music!
That's one strategy. But the opposite also works well. The ability to remove mistakes or revert to previous saves, etc., allows for experimentation without fear. "What if.." is a good thing for most hobbyist musicians. Reckless experimentations. Keep yhe flawed takes... certainly. There may be some gold to mine in there.
Also, what genres or styles are you referring to that you are live recording?
@@fakshen1973 It’s mostly driven around ambient music, which loans itself nicely to the mindset. The music offers a sense of spaciousness, so there’s time to reflect and respond to what you are doing. If it were free form jazz, I would certainly be lost!
You’d love Robert Rich if you aren’t already familiar with him. He used to do crazy long live improvised ambient sets for people in San Francisco to sleep to
Never realized how calm of a pacing your videos have until just now, but I am so thankful for it, I'm tired of maximum overdrive entertainment 24/7
Possibly your most inspiring video so far and one close to my heart. I grew up in the 70's and 80's when every new song we heard seemed to give us something completely different. Maybe the style, the sounds, the voice, the lyrics, the look. Nothing seemed predictable. Now hardly anything seems new or different. Occasionally an artist like Sia comes along and you get that massive buzz of excitement from somebody being totally original but it's very rare. The Beatles had three guys pulling in different directions, Bowie had his jumbled up news cuttings, Stevie Wonder had his genius, but I think we all need to start with the premise "I don't want to create something that has already been done, I want it to be different and new'. Of course, like you say, along the way it will get shaped by our conventions and prejudices but at least we're giving ourselves a chance.
As the La La La song says...
A bit of madness is key
To give us new colours to see
Who knows where it will lead us?
And that's why they need us
So bring on the rebels
The ripples from pebbles
The painters, and poets, and plays
And here's to the fools who dream
Crazy as they may seem
Here's to the hearts that break
Here's to the mess we make! 😎
this video has taught me more in music theory than I ever learned in 19 years of cello practice.
Now i just gotta implement "therefore" into all my music...
Perhaps you could have practiced something else for 19 years…
hopefully you're self-taught. you'd wanna have a word with your teacher otherwise
No it didn’t
this isn't a video about music theory, it's about changing your processes to be more creative.
The art is the process, the artist is the outcome. Absolutely beautiful video man, keep up all your hard work its truly impactful 🤘
"Finding a style" often goes hand in hand with "artistic stagnation"
Since I write as well as compose, I love ideas like this that link different forms of art together. There's a well-known maxim for writers, by the way: conflict comes from "yes, but" and "no, and":
Does the hero successfully climb the tower? YES, BUT the killer has already got away.
Does the team manage to find a boat? NO, AND the water has already covered the causeway.
These bring fresh challenges each time, and keep the stakes high.
"yes, and" and "no, but" have a more reassuring mood, but lack conflict. Although they can sometimes be useful if you need a break from the action and want to pause for some character development or whatever.
Does the child pass the exam? YES, AND better still, they get an offer from a local college.
Does the monster fall into the trap? NO, BUT it turns out it was on their side all along.
I have long thought that these rules might have parallels in music. Sometimes it's good to subvert expectations, and sometimes people want the comfort of predictability.
Wow, great storytelling principles, always great to learn stuff like that, thanks !
I was contemplating this concept a little bit ago and I think "and then" syndrome is not bad per say, or at least in the beginning.
I say this because it may help with stuff like finishing an album/continuing a client product to be consistent.
I think where the problem begins to emerge is where you never change that process, even after achieving what you wanted from that process
Could u elaborate? Just really curious
@@waterboyrene1241 I can't speak for the OP but I can relate. "and then" often leads to what Cameron described in the first example as "the natural resolution". There's usually a basis for that, theoretical or based on what we've been conditioned to expect. It can be an easier or quicker way to put a piece together or complete it.
Take a standard chord progression like Am, G, F... a natural resolution would be G back to Am (like the last minutes of Stairway To Heaven). Or Am, G, F, E (kinda Spanish or like Stray Cat Strut. Quick, easy and safe. Natural resolutions.
"But" & "therefore" can lead to something more unique, whether you find a resolution thru lots of trial & error (time consuming) or a reasonably solid foundation in theory.
So instead one might end up with Am, G, F, B flat (Am) or Am, G, F, Em, Dm, C, B flat, B flat (Am).
The same can be applicable in terms of stylistic choices.
In the case of dealing with a client, they might think, well that's not what I was expecting. Sometimes they're not looking for different, creative or unique but instead will judge based on their pre-conceived expectations. Like expecting a happy ending to a movie.
And in the context of a larger project it might not feel appropriate, for example it might feel "forced" or not consistant with what's already been created/established. Different just for the sake of being different (like forcing odd meter time signatures into a pop song).
I think the OP's last paragraph is self-explanatory, particularly in reference to one's own compositions & habits.
Everybody talks about telling a story with your music, but nobody does anything about it. Until now. Thanks, Cameron!
The “and then” idea reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons episodes which ends with the fam discussing what the moral of the story was. Homer suggests that maybe there was no moral. It was “just a bunch of stuff that happened.” Which is all the funnier, of course, because it was anything but that.
I've been stuck on a 'part II' for 3 weeks and I should have published it 2 weeks ago. To say that I needed to hear this is an understatement.
This video is actually more profound than many would realize - their loss (looking at you, Weaver). Easy to miss the nuggets if you don't pay attention, but actual practical information for those willing to listen carefully.
I love the tension between trying to keep things fresh and the need to 'woodshed' with your instrument. Traditional instruments really do repay deliberate practice and the development of muscle memory that comes from repetition, but if you want to make unboring art, then you need to get outside your comfort zone.
It's a tension I'm very conscious of as a folk singer singing mainly unaccompanied traditional songs. What keeps things fresh for me is definitely collaboration.
you're such a great content creator and it's amazing just how frequently and how much of this high quality content you put out. for free on youtube, no less. thank you.
South Park: no ‘and then’…
Dude Where’s My Car: “and then..?”
I've seen a bit where the Spongebob creators do a similar thing: any idea is valid, and then linking those off-the-wall ideas into a series of "natural events" (you don't want to lose the viewer/listener) into one coherent piece. So you still have structure, of course, but within that arc, the unexpected happens. Great stuff, and a valuable way of reminding us to actually be creative.
I like listening to your rants - it's almost like a calming yoga session, just letting the sounds wash over you, the information slowly seeping in. I also love the end of this video, brought a huge smile to my face, you guys are adorable! :)
I absolutely love this idea. Anything to make something less formulaic. As long as the listener isn’t left salivating like Pavlov’s dog, all things are possible. I think we’re all so accustomed to getting resolution, that unless we get our musical ‘Scooby Snack’, we’re left wondering why the song feels incomplete even if we aren’t cognitively understanding it. Yay pop music or some shit.
This can also be called "breaking the routine" as described by Keith Johnson in "Impro" (1959). Every time an audience has got the "routine", ie: has an expectation, you head off in a new direction (related but unexpected).
I saw Bigger, Longer, Uncut at a midnight show with a crazy crowd and it was an awesome experience. And part of that was that I didn't expect it to be such a great musical. I really vibed with that part of the movie and it still holds up all these years later.
After explorative, mind bending, neuron popping intellectualism, silly endings are best. Thank you!
That sounds like a huge letdown.
Well put! I think it’s important to set aside time to create without time limits, and explore sonic options for your exact reasons. Sometimes a standard routine can get in the way of the desire to create good art amirite
but...
I actually think my music needs to have more "and then" moments because all of it seems to be "but" or "therefore" to the point you lose the predictability of a catchy song.
On the other hand, my process DOES need to change because I... don't really have one, and then I just end up not finishing any of my half written music as I really should be doing should, never mind creating anything new!
A lot of music has the feel of
"I want x, but there is a challenge, therefore..."
It's clear how much effort you put into these videos. The writing and editing are so good. And your voice🤩 This seems like such a simple concept, but opens so many avenues. I definitely have some tools and habits I need to pay more attention to, and try to deviate from. Gonna take a lot practice to implement this. Thank you for what you do 👍
Great stuff. Sometimes, when reading fiction from friends or students, the "and then" wasn't there, mainly because all of the standard training hadn't been drilled into their work; this made the results unpredictable, and (occasionally) more interesting. Once students are told "You must do this" they get scared to try anything new or weird. I think the hardest part of being an artist of any kind is to lose that instinct to always do what is expected. Sometimes we just need to play, like you said. We did that when we were very young because we didn't know the "rules".
Your tips and tricks have been quite helpful to me. I've always been searching for a way to marry my "electronic" music sensibilities with my "acoustic/organic" sensibilities.
Your single loop trickery and stretching trick was a game changer.
I've always fought against being placed in "a" box. I want all of the boxes.
Your sentiment here reminds me of a Grateful Dead line that always stuck with me, "And the music played the band."
If you get out of your box and do something you're not quite comfortable with... well then you let the music guide you.
Funny how the terms "Muse" and "Music" are so similar.
I massively respect you. I love how genuine you are with your platform, and your dedication to crafting quality sounds and videos is truly inspiring and enriching. Thanks for all of your hard work!
Another elucidating and highly articulate examination of the whole creative process, regardless what medium one works in. Thanks for the thoughtful, high-quality content on your channel that makes it always worth watching. 👍
My problem (well one of them) is that I play TOO much and never get around to actually recording my happy accidents. It’s almost like I fear hearing my own creations.
I've been enjoying your videos for several months. They're smart, insightful, and honest. And you have an infuriatingly excellent voice for it.
Today, I finally listened to your music. It is so. damn. good. It's moody, atmospheric, calm, and pretty. Also, it's impeccably produced, of course.
For those who haven't check it out, do yourself a favor and give it a close listen.
"But is a powerful concept" I agree 100% LOL
❤ This video helped me a lot last night on a project. Throughout, I found myself thinking about the sections less as linear and more as responsive. I also felt a lot freer when I went to change gears. Less lost in ‘what do I do next’. Reminds me a bit of improv. Thanks.
4:21 "...the idea of 'butt' is equally powerful..." You don't say...
"...the idea of 'butt' is one of the more powerful tools we have as creators..."
I'M SORRY. LOL
One of the most famous examples of the "but..." might be from Hamlet "Hamlet, believing it is Claudius, stabs wildly, killing Polonius, but he pulls aside the curtain and sees his mistake."
wow Cameron, very inspiring message! Agree, playing is essential in every creative process. For me, creating electronic music has everything to do with experimentation. Keep up the great work!
“Yes,but” in your music might just need the nudge I needed. I’ve never been really excited about my own work, because it never surprises me. This framework demands you to surprise yourself.
I show that video to my writing students every year. It's such a simple but powerful way to think! Great application to music!
The what’s up dog at the end, priceless 😂
I'm not saying I'm a good musician (I'm most assuredly not), but what I found worked for switching things up in my process was trashing a previous one and creating new ones the second I got bored with the original. I like to create a list of options with song construction and then use a random number generator for the next option. It often did lead me down unexpected paths that were, at the very least, fun to pursue due to the chance nature. A song could go in an infinite number of directions and that was exciting to play around with.
My English teacher back in High School said if you join two connecting with "and then" then they don't gel well together, you should focus on developing cause and effect relationships being naturally occurring rather than a sequence of events joined by a string of unrelated "and then" statements. Glad to see that this idea is still being taught. You should always think about what comes next as a result of what comes before, what feels natural instead of jumping ahead and not allowing statements to flow together.
This is the best explanation of the classic "rules are meant to be broken" trope I've ever seen.
Functional harmony is a very oldschool version of this "but" and "therefore" concept. Functional harmony is so important to storytelling because of this. (NOT strict common practice period 4-part voice leading rules)
Excellent video. Such deep insights into the nature of creativity formulated so clearly and presented so beautifully. Thank you.
the mick gordon gdc talk is pure gold. touches so well not only on the nitty gritty production stuff but also the thought process behind it
This video helped me get more perspective on a dilemma I’ve ran into with some of the new content I’ve put out and figuring out why my newest video didn’t do as well as the previous video and the reason was because the newest video was a story told with many “and thens” in it but the writing in the video before had “but” and “therefore” more often which I feel made it more compelling. I saw this clip of trey Parker and Matt stone a while ago but it didn’t fully resonate with me until you talked about it so thank you for the deep dive on it!
Also I love how when you were translating the concept to chord progressions how you basically played a progression that vibed kind of like something Radiohead would make. I feel this concept may be the key to their success as well. At least what makes it interesting IMO
ahh cam my dude this was JUST what i needed for my recent woes and i am about to venture into a whole new project.
This was rather a wholesome and Stoic video this time round and paired with south park as its plot focus;
perfect, absolutely fucking perfect!!
Your lady's joke at the end of the video was the cherry and whipped cream this video needed
10/10
Many of my sessions that I start with a clear picture in my head of what I want to do end up in frustration. Then, after continuing to explore and mess around, my best creations start to come out.
Matt and Trey are amazing. But and Therefore completely explain Book of Mormon(one of my favorite musicals). But that is kinda what they were going for...
Great video! Love the deep dive into the creative process
Gave me a lot to think about, as I try to get back to the experimental nature I had in the 70's. Thank you.
Okay, this whole "but..." and "therefore" thing legit had me thinking about some tracks I've done
There was one track where I was thinking "Okay, I have this melody, BUT maybe I can reharmonize that melody and have that come in somewhere... THEREFORE, there's more variation and harmonic context for the listener"
There was another one where I started with this orchestral intro... BUT I ended up making a slow experimental/lofi drop for that intro to lean into... THEREFORE adding some contrast and dynamic range to the song...
I've never thought of it that way! This is the type of info that'll help many artists to come!
Super interesting and insightful as always !
Also with that title, you subverted my expectations more than The Last Jedi!
Your videos are always interesting! And by the way, your patches for Vital are a pure dope 👌
Not watching anything gives me the best output of my own pure ideas and 'inspiration'. Then it all comes from that golden flow, of which we don't have a clue where it comes from. And because there is nothing to refer to, it comes in its most strong version.
Thanks, I needed this reinforcement. I’d been contemplating this a while. I’m trying to force myself to play things that are definitively not my comfort zone or muscle memory “go to’s” but I also realize making a conscious effort to do that is still kind of missing the point. Need to work on just letting the subconscious part happen. Kind of funny how I can’t get out of my own way sometimes with the creative process.
Your videos are insanely helpful. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us all
I always have this idea of turning my musical idea to opposite direction of whatever it is.. High notes to low notes, long notes to short notes, synth pattern to drum pattern etc. But actually never did it, because I got carried on with the initial idea lol
Good one! This reminded me of Pyramid harmony that the Beatles were so fond of. I would put up a link, but unfortunately the site that did the analysis is down. Pyramid harmony is easy enough and revealing as to how it gave the Beatles a plethora of options to answer the but and therefore questions. Very useful way to find new harmonies, chords, melodic notes that one wouldn't naturally come up with, yet they are atill closely related to original key, so it doesnt sound suddenly out of place. Anyway Pyramid Harmony.
Man.. Great content. Such an insightful notion we should all be aware of but tend to forget in the ramalamb of every day tasks and robotic motions. Appreciated the ad lib touch from your special guest at the end ha ha.
I’ve been doing that in my compositions. A decent amount of therefores and some random buts. I tend to change something in one of the instruments (guitar bass drums keys strings) every phrase repetition. So if the bass does the same thing, I might change the lead guitar to doing scale runs in the same chord progression when in the previous iteration it was sustained power chords. And I do that with different pieces and different times with each riff segment. So there’s sonic continuity but it evolves within its own parameters
I love the way you're depicting topics& thoughts.
The whole "and then vs. therefore/but" concept was fascinating and a real eye opener. Actual nuggets for those willing to listen. Thanks a lot !
You should try explaining the biases that occur when creating songs and how the selection of them,even ideas can make you step out from writing in a subjective way affected by certain biases. In short why being really selective is the key of writing,because being selective is everything.We all write boring and shit,but when you have 600 variants,thats something else,or how Warren Buffett put it:The difference between successful people and really successful people is that really successful people say no to almost anything.
Cameron this is going to sound like a backhanded compliment, but: i love your videos, because i almost never finish watching them. I often end up getting an idea halfway through, close UA-cam, and go write something. Which I'm about to do now. So thanks 🎉
What a great, quality video. So important to understand. Thank you for your content my friend.
11:03 While it might sound like mere semantics, I've found that limits allow more framework from which a process can be created. I suppose it's similar to the differing approaches of one illustrator who focuses on the negative space while the other on silhouette. For example, instead of saying "I won't limit myself to Sytrus (my workhorse synth)," I set a limit of NOT using Sytrus. "Add a new midi track, but I won't use Sytrus, therefore I'll see what I can make with this 200ms long white noise sample." Even if everything else is the same, that one different species of butterfly flapping its wings creates a whole cascade of new consequences which can then branch out into new outcomes.
Overall though, I think it still leads us to similar places where you don't have to throw the process out entirely, but give the process room to breathe. The only danger, for myself at least, is removing too much of the process framework might take what seemed like an innocent break from my favorite synth into a two month rabbit hole of building my own synth from scratch with MaxMSP, which while educational, leaves me with a feeling of overall regret as my heart is in being prolific with the best music I can make, not rampant experimentation. So I wonder what the extreme opposite of efficient laziness would be- unproductive enthusiasm perhaps? In that case, maybe the pendulum is constantly going back and forth and in various degrees, as we strive to actually finish what we start, but without arriving at a predictable and comfortable outcome.
Incredibly well articulated, lovee this
a couple of hours after watching this video i was able to relate to my own productions and thought i'd share how: I start with a very minimal and sparse intro THEREFORE the lowend drops in super hard. the phrase goes for 7 bars, BUT the kicks get syncopated on the 8th to keep things fresh. this will still get boring THEREFORE there is big breakdown. it builds THEREFORE it should drop, BUT instead i keep a bar of silence before dropping full force
“Arbitrary is the anthitesis of Creativity” Damn, I’m stealing that right away
This is like my two favorite things combine!
Your awesome!
This video single-handedly destroyed a bout of creative block I’ve been having. THANK YOU!!!
I found the Lyra-8, with it's actual intention to rejig the "slate" has really changed my practical sense of time and harmonic/melodic structure. Similarly the Osmose gives a new intimacy to the process of real-time sound design, with its played "envelopes" and a newly internalised capacity to play with the insides of chords.
I think there's a problem with the easy idea of "flow state" which is misunderstood as just the following the line of least resistance, rather than the more potentially confrontational and interruptive possibilities of genuine openness
@@spridgejuice Exactly!! Flow state is in regards to concentration and applying skills to a challenge. Doing things deeply, and with intention and being immersed in the session are some of the main tenets of flow state. Thanks for reminding me because when I mention "flow state" in real life conversations I also think people misunderstand it's true meaning.
This video gives me chills. Thank you
You really are quite brilliant. Well done and thank you so much for making these videos
Absolutely ,our instruments ain’t gonna change,……we have to.
Same with Human conditions, injuries….it’s up to us the individual, no easy fix or solution ✌️
Play what you feel , layer your feeling until you find that inner emotion. speak with sound
The up dog joke at the end had me dead
I rewatches the video multiple times and I can't understand what it's about. What is "and then"? How does it translate to composition? What is "but therefore"? Whaaaaaa
I watch your video and get instantly reminded of deadmau5 who is eloboratly known for a percetion of call and response, but due to him and the pandemic, where he streamed a lot and also showcased some songs, people sent to him via donation, there was this artist called RAWT. Joel even said something like: That's a level I want to be at technically and productionwise someday. The songs are not linear, except the song length, because he varies a lot, in beats, sound design and even call and response. After the first thirty seconds of listening, you think: "okay, this belongs definetly to the song, but is something dragged from another parallel universe or dimension, that still suits it."
omg thanks I feel like I've been looking for this piece of information for so long
I really like this and appreciate the careful thought. Thank you.
Have you read the Rick Rubin book on creativity? You might like that.
My “critical” comment for the day is this… often when we talk about creativity we default to arguments about what is going to generate the best or most original output. The implied assumption is that “better creativity” is defined by “better output” (and we can talk for hours about what exactly constitutes better output). But what if creativity is done for its own sake? To simply be in the “flow state” of creating? Suppose I love making music but I have no realistic hope or concern that more than 10 people are ever going to hear what I make. What matters then is whether I got totally lost and absorbed in the experience of making it. That’s the goal. If I make a loop and it never turns into a “song” it doesn’t matter because I was totally absorbed for 2 hours while I made it. I’m not saying that this is the only way to think about creativity but it seems like we quickly abandon this idea and go back to talking about making the “best output”. Most of the people watching this channel are probably better described as people who do something other than music for a living and who only make music for the pure thrill of making it. How would advice for creativity be different if that was the goal? Maybe it would only make sense to “ change it up” when the experience gets less exciting or fun?
Just a thought. Love all your work. Keep doing it.
great story, its always a learning experience when u change something
You can make reverb whit a cheap speaker a cheap microphone and a middle priced interface... But the secret is how...😅 You have to figure it out but It's simple so you Will!
And yet, using but and therefore gives the impression that the author started writing before planning the journey, replacing “ and then” but improvising with discordant connections. Maybe.
It's a metaphor..
4:25 Welcome to Jon Hopkins, the probably greatest musician of our time
This is a great insight VT. And one that I needed to discover. 'But and therefore'. I do get bored with my writing a lot. Therefore... I will have a go with this tonight. :)
As a person who studies film makes edm as a hobby, and a amateur instrument player. Yha, this is great advise. Now if only some genres of edm will listen. :p
The algorithm has been throwing you at me all year. This is the one that finally got me to click subscribe. Thank you, thoughtful mustache person.
My favorite episode is Season 9: Free Willzyx... the one where you see a police sketch of all the boys; I love all the detail and the dumb looks they have.
Have you heard the music of Steven Universe? No one has made a video about this!
Or adventure time!
Right? Becky Sucrose brings the magic ✨ Moar square waves!
Unfortunately UA-cam's copyright hellscape makes analysis videos extremely hard to do - maybe one day though!
I needed this today. Thank you.
Excellent content, Cameron. Thanks for this.
funny, I was looking at the same video not that long ago, and it was a crucial realisation.. much more useful than the usual storytelling narrative/steps.
"Perfection is for Amateurs." That is my Creative Mantra.
So true. So may producers out there who are technically perfect, but the music still is a bit soulless - Andrew Huang as an example.
Write music the way you philosophize; contradictions and synthesis. Fundamental to classic music.
Thank you for sharing, great video!!!