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@@FauxHammer Ok, sorry about that, I'll be more constructive. If you want click-bait titles since they do better with the algorithm, take a leaf from Disocurse miniatures and WarhammerMan. They both use sensationalist, overblown titles to their videos that seem to do well, but their titles are not the opposite of what their videos' conclusions turn out to be? You could have titled this video something like "CAN THIS PRINTER DESTROY GAMES WORKSHOP?!?" or "THIS MIGHT BE IT FOR FIGURE COMPANIES - is the Phrozen a GAME CHANGER?!?" Or something else in that vein that says that this might be a an incredible video, "You'll never guess what happened next", baiting people in to watch it. I understand you want to get on the algorithm's good side, I respect the hustle. But a friend of mine is considering buying an 8K printer and seeing your title I felt compelled to watch it to see if he should avoid the Phrozen 8k. Then you edited the video starting with all the problems you has, so I kept watching since it was looking really bad. And at the end you just turned around and i realized you just wanted to get me to stay on for the full 15 minutes. At that stage I got pissed, because that's... kinda shitty and wasting my time when you could have been upfront from the start. I guess for you it works since you then get more people watching your entire vid etc, but is it worth it if you alienate people? the only thing I've learned is that I can't trust your video titles and that you are willing to waste my time, so why should I give you any more of it?
@@rangda_prime Oh wow, thanks man, this is super helpful feedback and citing sources of good examples is really helpful to me. I admit, it's a hard task to come up with good titles. I;'e spent over a year doing UA-cam vids (with accurate titles and thumbnails) all of which are getting great feedback in regard to the content. (So I;m genuinely grateful for negative feedback as I;m sick of have smoke blown up my ass) But when comparing to other channels, nobody is clicking my vids. Click through rate is like 3.5%. that;s terrible. Whilst I get some views from my existing web audience. places like fauxhammer.com still make up less than 2% of the views on a particular video. So I need to push the angle in thumbnails and titles. I have perhaps gone a bit too harsh here and admit that my thumbnail says don't buy it, but the conclusion of the video is do buy it. Definately do buy it. Heres the problem though, this video is getting so many more views and clicks than any of my other vids. where''d normally have about 400 views by now, I'm getting 1200. The retention in the video (people watching the video for it;s whole length) is above 50% evenly spread across the board. so it'ks keeping more than half of those viewers engaged for the full vid, despite the title. And my click through rate, normally at 2-3%, is now above 9%. all of this within the first day. So I get your point, i totally do, I hate clickbait titles myself, but the terrible truth appear to be, they work.... I'm sure once/if I can break through to have a big following it will be much easier and I'll find a good balance, but until then. the numbers are telling me this is the way to go :( I'm sorry, i'm genuinely sorry
It's a way off yet though, 3D printing is a hobby in itself, and a great one, but it's not all that accessible yet. Reliability and ease of use needs to improve a lot.
Good thing is in a year or two's time the quality of the next model will be better/cheaper or more user friendly. The space is progressing at such a pace.
Just a note: If you ever have an issue with removing the base layer from your plate, use freeze spray or air duster (upside down) and cool that base layer down. It'll almost fall off the build plate. I've also put IPA in a freezer and used the cold IPA to do this. I also like the flexible build plates but they come with their own problems.
Just a note. bottom layer exposure testing takes 45 min to 1h to calibrate perfectly. flex plates like wham bam are good maybe for a year or less (depends how much you print) then it starts to fail. Resin printing is all about calibrating your resins and that is 1h youtube search and 1h doing them and you are all set. Dont be marketing victim , do the grind its very easy ps. i've done all of the above. trust me
Having just received my Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k today after waiting over 10 months for it, I opened this "DO NOT BUY" video with some trepidation. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find that, in spite of some problems with this machine, your review was very positive and the problems can be worked around. Right now I'm looking to see how large an area I need to dedicate for a workstation for it. I intend to rewatch your video and make notes on the problems you encountered along with their solutions. Thanks for your review.
Oh that’s great to hear and I’m so glad you liked it. I’ll be honest, I loved this printer so much (once I got it working) that I it just felt right to make the best negative video on UA-cam. Everyone was already saying it was amazing, so I decided to say everything wrong with it too- but it’s still amazing. Have fun with your and any issues shout up, or check out the support group linked in the description
@@FauxHammer That’s something that is so important is is way overlooked nowadays on youtube. UA-cam has become a circlejerk of paid endorsements from companies for positive reviews on their product. As someone who is going to purchase this printer regardless, I appreciate the hell out of you making this video and providing the helpful information nobody really talks about
For the price this is probably the best printer you can get right now. I would say that the anycubic m3 plus comes close, but mostly in terms of extra features that you get with it. I think the saturn 2 will be a solid rival to this puppy though. Honestly I can't wait to see what innovations they come up with in this space in the next 5 to 10 years!
yeah i'm on the fence and considering buying the Saturn 2...the x/y resolution is very close to this one but you have a bigger and more comfortable plate
@@enricobononi8655 saturn 2 is the go currently. phrozen is a gigantic pain in the ass. and despite what this guys experience is i have seen countless nightmare stories about their customer service
@@tatooine_dream I was set on buying the Sonic Mini 8K, but then I found out about the Saturn 2. Now, Im leaning towards that printer. It's also 100 bucks cheaper where I live, so it's winning me over. I'd love the Sonic Mini 8K, but hearing about all these problems turn me off, plus it's more expensive to boot. I'm torn now.
i have the 8k mini and i was wondering why you hated it but it turns out you love it just as much as the rest of us i legit started making my own 3d models for warhammer in blender because my models now look better then what i can buy for warhammer xd
exactly that, I should have videotaped it, but I did it off cam and I wasn't doing it again wasting another FEP. Though others have suggested to get a large screen protectpr for an Ipad or similar and cut it to size. Just dont get one with UV protection or anti glare
Quick question, but maybe a slow answer. Your print layouts are very dense. How to you get all of the uncured resin out of those? What is you cleaning process for them?
Good question. I have a 2 stage cleanig process. I use this Pickle jar hich is really large to get most of the resin off. amzn.to/3RYdB9t Stage 2 is 5-10 mins in this wash and cure station amzn.to/3BDcDdy I also use industrial grade Methylated Spirit insted of Isopropanol which is far better at cleaning and doesnt go cloudly like ISO. amzn.to/3QF005V Occasionally I get lathe things that do not fit in the pickle jar as a whole component, so i'll snap the parts from teh base before using the wash station. hope that helps
most of these problems could be fixed by using a magnetic build plate. Seriously its a must have, I'm never ever going to get a 3d printer without it. The unprotected lcd is atrocious though. seriously what are they thinking? Leaks happen all the time and there's almost nothing you can do to prevent it.
8k is just a marketing term. They are all a bit different. I found Elegoo’s Space Grey 8k a bit nicer and about as sharp as this. Sirayatech fast is about the same as this and that’s not called 8k
Why do you need 8k? 8k isn;t really relevant as the screen siaze makes a big difference - hopefully this helps www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/
Nice review. This is why I kept with my 2K mono printer. Screens are cheap relative to higher resolution screens and the detail I get is sufficient for my needs. Yeah, 4-8K would be nice, but then the maintenance and upkeep costs go up with it.
@@FauxHammer Oh god yeah. I'm personally waiting for DLP resin printers to come down to a reasonable price band. Anycubic had it on massive reduction but I missed it.
Thanks for very interesting video Pls.Could you explain better the operation with chitubox in order to divide the model for avoiding the tplatform thikness issue?
what do you think about the Elegoo Saturn 2? the x/y resolution is very close 22 vs 28 micron... Z resolution is the same for all the printers. i'm more concerned about the artefacts you were mentioning in the shoulder pads
I have this printer, but it is collecting dust after it's third print. You didn't mention the loud noise of the fan, so your fan works okay? Mine sounds like an airplane ready to take off while it is printing. I contacted Phrozen but they say it is normal. So can you please tell me how much noise the fan makes, comparing it to an Elegoo printer?
I have the Elegoo Mars 3 and the Elegoo is far louder than the 8k I have, I can hardly hear the fan on the 8k, it;s there but i can easily tune it out, the constant blower noise from the Mars 3 is frustrating.
I was looking at the Elegoo Saturn 8k (smaller of the two, not the Saturn 2 8k).. there's a big price difference between this and the Elegoo.. is there a quality difference?
Not noticeably. the Saturn 2 and the Saturn 8k are basically the same thing. Both have 28.5 Micron XY resoluton. the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k has 22 micron. Can you tell a difference by eye though? hardly...
@@FauxHammer But if looking at the Saturn 8k or the Photon D2.. is D2 the clear winner? I saw your other video where you were talking about the D2.. I'm just concerned about size of the print bed/screen size. It's specifically to print 32mm minis, I'm not interested in large minis like tanks or daemons etc.. just troops/characters.. maybe 30k scale non daemon primarch type size..
@@chrisrichardson1600 the D2 is easier to use. Because DLP light is more direct than LCD. You will find a much wider range of exposure times give you successful prints in the D2. Saturn 2 is an LCD printer so it needs to be dialled in like any other. For your use case, I’d get the Saturn 8k for the price point. You don’t need the extra height of the Saturn 2 and because of that, there’s very little difference between them that warrants the extra expense.
@@FauxHammer so the Saturn 8k would be better over the D2 simply on a price point? I remember you saying something about increasing the anti analysing to blur out the layer lines.. I guess I could always start my resin printing with the Saturn 8k (a much higher step up than my current Anycubic i3 Mega) see how I do.. thanks a lot for your advice!
@@chrisrichardson1600 The D2 is good becasue it just works, it's simple, has fewer components to breakdown and the projector lasts far longer than any LCD would. ut for the convenience of the size you get with the larger 8k printers, that;s what i;d reach for now. but this is a realisation i;ve only just come too in the last few weeks when testing out the M3 Premium - here's a preview link to that video (pending a few more edits) drive.google.com/file/d/1WGPV9QEfF8znUSPzU__mwXio5ULUfcFa/view?usp=share_link but yeah, I'd pick the Saurn 8k. I've just started playing with the Saturn 2 and have the 8k on the way.
Hi mate, Im a bit confused as to why this is ranking no. 2 on your best miniatures printers list, when your review says "do not buy" can you shed some light on this? Best regards
@@FauxHammer Took me too long to get the jest ;) I was worried about the resin sticking to the plate, and the fact I could only find the printer at a low cost from the website shipping only from outside of the EU, so I went with the Saturn 2 8k after your excellent review. Thanks alot ! And thank you for the review on the Anycubic m5s - cancelled my preorder after seeing it :)
I'm considering getting into the hobby, the thought of having to become a printer engineer/technician is really putting me off, I want it to work out of the box and I don't want any problems with parts until I replace it. Messing around with settings and software is plenty enough for me I don't have the time or patience for anything else.
If you want that, your choice wouldnt be these "hobby grade" printers. Unless you shelve out upwards of 5-10k USD you'll probably have to see that there is some techical aspects to printing. (even at the higher priceranges, there are issues). Tinkering with your printer, settings etc is a part of the hobby, even thought that tinkering is alot less than what the FDM side gives you. But expect to have to replace a screen, clean out a Z axis and tighten a few screws during your time with your printer.
I want to give some advice here. 3D printing resin does NOT like water, at any stage of it's existance, it will warp and distort. I've deep washed a cured resin piece because it was something my mouth was going to touch, a type of flute whistle thing, and I had printed the whistle in 2 halves. They alligned perfectly at first, but I washed it out with soap and water (after it was fully cured) and then let it dry, then I went to glue it together and it was warped to the point that there was chunky gaps in between the halves, where it used to perfectly cleanly align. So don't use hot water to soften supports. What I found useful is to remove the supports before curing. Get the print out, wash it in alcohol or whatever, let it dry, then remove the supports. And obviously use gloves. Most of the supports easily snap off, the supports that are too tricky to get just leave on, or have dedicated tweezers or whatever and try to remove it then. And then put the part in the curing chamber. I'm guessing that if water can so intensely deform printed parts then I'm sure that builds up internal stress as well, which is the lead reason why other materials with inner stress can get cracks and break, like concrete or non cast acrylic glass. Also 3D printing resin is UV cured, the more light touches it outside of the dedicated curing phase the more brittle and unflexible it'll become, since you're over baking it basically. Some lamps give off a slight bit of UV as well. So after curing prints try to put them in a box that has no light leaks coming in. Just get some cardboard boxes and duct tape any corners that let in light, and place your finished (so washed and cured) 3D prints in there for the time being. They're only safe once primed with paint. You need to treat all light like poison to the printed parts, like vampires. So: -Don't ever use water on 3D prints for any reason at all. -Remove supports before curing. -Keep prints out of any light after they're cured until you're ready to prime them. That's going to keep the prints flexible and sturdy, as well as not warped.
I just unboxed mine and equipped it with a WhamBam Systems build plate, which is touted as making removal of completed prints from the build plate much easier.... no hammering and chiseling. It is about 3mm thick, so WhamBam recommends using the z-axis offset feature. I have not been able to figure out how to get that set. I figured out that aligning the build plate required holding it down in place and incrementally tightening the screws in a crossing pattern, got that to work. But now I can't figure out how to actually set the plate with offset so that it compensates for the thickness of the WhamBam plate...
I have no idea how offset works. i would have thought just lower the bed with the plate on and set that as the 0 position. Why would you need to offset it? I'll have to read into z-offset and why it matters but I thought that was just an FDM term for setting 0
Could have been clearer in my comment --- The slots in the bracket give you about 4mm vertical play; the slots are approx 8mm in total length and the screws are M4, so about 4mm there. But on my particular printer the zero setting *without* the WhamBam plate is against the bottom limit of the slot, so there's no overhead left to compensate for the WhamBam thickness. I put in a ticket with Phrozen after I left this comment and they replied with a link to this video. Will give it a shot after I run to the hardware stor for an M4-0.7 bracket screw of the correct length to replace the one with buggered up threads... drive.google.com/file/d/1d4eMnq34tJVNISESlWbSB39_PqEIxqiN/view
Having had my Mini 8K sat on the shelf for two years unused I thought I'd better do some research before I finally go for it. This video was brilliant!
I waited over a year and half to use mine and regret not pushing the Mini-4K off the bench and using it sooner! The unprotected screen sucks shit though. In the event you get a few dots of thinned, set resin on your screen, DO NOT use Acetone to try to clean it!! The Phrozen LCD is not made from hardened glass, or any glass, unless it is and it has some sort of plasticized coating that reacts with Acetone. I ruined a nearly perfectly fine LCD on mine by doing just that... Luckily I had a spare on hand (have since bought a pair of spare LCD's) so within an hour or so I was up and running again. The advice for buying a screen protector is all well and fine, but I ruined the 3-pack I had trying to get one installed without trapping any dust underneath it. Also... That ridiculously over thick gasket around the LCD prevents the screen protector from sitting perfectly flush with the LCD near the edges of the gasket. Much prefer the machines that have the LCD protected by flush mounted tempered glass (my old AnyCubic Photon I and my resin to brass casting Mars 4 Ultra have this), but you can't beat the resolution of this machine once you get things dialed in (though the Mars 4 Ultra DOES have better resolution, I still use my Mini-8K for most resin prints).
I wish that by telling you it would help. but everyone needs to work this out for themselves based on the environment their printer is in. Use Lychee and check the communit profiles. get a profile for this printer and your resin which has the most feedback balanced with most success. then just print out the exposure test and try to match the number of holes to number of posts. when they match, that;s your settings. Dialing this resin in though is more difficult than most and it;s severely affected by temperature like dental resins.
I almost did not buy because of the title lucky your vid was so good I kept watching to find out that you really did not mean the title... tricky... I already have a Frozen Mega and so I have encountered similar issues (new screens, punctures leveling etc...) but yes they are worth the trouble they do a great job... I will go forth now and buy the mini
Just bought one of these and very keen to try it out after watching your video! How does it hold up 7 months on? Is it truly capable of matching GW quality at the same sizes?
7 months later I’m reviewing new printers, I’ve hardly touched it since the initial review I’m afraid. Yep, it’s more than capable, but in fairness so are quite a few printers now. Hope you enjoy it, it’s a great printer
@@FauxHammer Thanks for coming back to me so quickly! Are there any other printers you'd recommend over the mini 8k if my main goal is achieving the best possible quality for printing miniatures (say 32mm)?
@@Alex-xh4jn It's a hard one. I print miniatures mostly, more than anything else. And when I print miniatures I tend to use resins, that are generally a bit more flexible. Becasue the higher detail resins are brittle and small components can snap easily. If you are gaming with your models, then I'd opt for somethingwith a similar print resolution but have the convenience of a larger build plate... e.g the saturn 2 or Saturn 8k, the M3 premium, or the Mighty 8k. I have videos on all of these printers, with a comparison video out next week. If you must, MUST! have the absolut best detail. then yes, on paper this has a higher resolution. but to avoid layer lines yuou'll need to apply antiailiasing and image blur., which IMHO all but negates the benefit you will get from this higher resolution. especially since most miniatures do not have the detail to benefit from that resolution anyway!
@@FauxHammer awesome thanks for the detailed response! So assuming having no voxel lines and then having the highest level of detail possible are my priorities in that order - do you think the mighty may be better suited? I guess either way I'd be running with AA 2 and maybe blur 2 as well, so the question would be at that point, does the mini offer anything more over the mighty in terms of quality 🤔
@@Alex-xh4jn I genuinely can’t see a difference on minis between the mini and mighty, the mighty has the benefit of a larger plate. We are talking a difference in resolution of 6.5 microns. Less than a thenth the thickness of a human hair… If you can perceive that difference, I wish I had your eyesight. Not sure if the price difference, but I would opt for the larger printer.
I dropped the base layers way down, I'm currently at 20secs. I use a #2 artists pallet knife to get parts off, it's edge is way thinner than a regular scrapper.
Very detailed look at one printer. As someone who fears all the maintenance and constant configurations I am still not interested but will continue to look at paying others to print some of the amazing designs out there. Archvillian have caught my eye but I have a few more designers to look at now.
lThat;s fair, they can be cumbersome and it;s why I said at the end, we need some ease of use innovations. Self filling vat, heated vat. fully automated levelling, self emptying vat. roller bar to remove prints from FEP, Stuff like that, all of which are available on different printers,just not together for a consumer price.
Some of your initial issues are why I stopped using Phrozen and switched to Elegoo. I love 3D printing and I am a long time Warhammer player. I feel it adds to the hobby. Between bitz and bases, not to mention other game systems.
I do love Phrozen for theoir build quality. everything about the printer says premium product to me, but yeah there can be some teething issues. I agree, the best part of 3D printing in the hobbysphere is enhancing what we already have. Unique party on Warhammer, higher quality boardgame pieces. or my future project, a full Space Hulk set with 3D printed scenery.
@@FauxHammer absolutely, I also love the ability to amek oop stuff. If it's not produced anymore, I can make it and enjoy it without the crazy ebay tax.
the flex plates like ones from wham bam are nice for removing prints. I do wish they etched the plates though. for you issue with the screws lifting the bed a washer in-between the bracket and the mounting arm may help as well. I haven't had that issue or the issue with the z rod. I really love this printer and have been very happy with it. I don't have any failures with it that are not due to my mistakes (not putting a support in the right spot). a tip if you have to replace the outer tape is you can make a flat print that fills more then the entire bed with a really long layer print. then print it without the bed and build plate. then you know you aren't obscuring the printable area when placing the tape.
You ever do one on hobby burnout I guess I don’t really know, I have models and garage kits and even some model kits from my hobby shop I bought with ideas of projects or something to do but I have the biggest problem which is I sit down turn in tv and I’m there for hours and no hobby stuff gets done.
To prevent the build plate torquing when you tighten the screws, install one or two washers on each of the four attachment screws. This will take up some of the torque when tightening each screw. Had a similar issue on my Sonic Mini-4k. Also... The Sonic Mini-4K has the same LCD screen design. No protective layer of glass above the LCD. I have both the Mini-4K and the Mini-8K... Have had the 8K since June, but haven't made the time to clear some space on the bench to set it up. As amazing as I'm sure it's going to be, the 4K is pretty damn good as it is!
@@FauxHammer Yeah... On my MIni-4K I'm printing parts that have raised letters on the part. On one surface, the letters are about 0.2mm thick x 0.15mm proud of the surface. They print perfectly. On another surface, the letters are 0.1mm thick x 0.1mm proud and about 0.4mm tall. Under magnification, they're legible, though a tad pixelated, to the naked eye it looks like a near perfect name plate. That's on the 4K! Not entirely sure why I purchased the 8K, but at the time I'd gotten some unanticipated $$$ to pay for it, so I said "what the heck...". Can't imagine what the 8K will do... Surely better quality, with legibility on parts the next scale down.
Thanks for the video. Its my first 3D printer and Im having the same issues. Currently Im printing with 4k resin on the 8k Mini and its a sluge...it needs more time for example the Elegoo Mars and in here in germany the 8k resin costs 70 Euros. Other than that: I adore the 8k in comparison to the 4k prints. The 4k is more bendy and sometimes a little bit sticky (even if cleaned properly). The 8k needs little to none curing time and is ready after cleanup.
You can’t possibly be having the same issues as me- based on other comments I’ve had. I’m an incompetent user who makes false statements lol. I do like the 4k resin, more durable then at 8k
here's something fun. i order a phronzen sonic mini 4k (it's cheaper and good enough for my needs). about 2 days after i ordered (not direct but from a local reseller) they sms'd me telling me if i'm ok with them upgrading my order to this, for free :) here's hoping my lcd won't burn on the first test burned :P
I just got into resin printing and all your points are spot-on. I bought a Grey Knights team and also printed a bunch of knockoff (called quite silvery knights, lol) and the printed ones are OUTRAGEOUS. GW doesn't compare. I also didn't spend an hour gluing stuff together! I'm using an ELEGOO Saturn 3 Ultra, and it's capable of higher definition than anything I've thown at it so far. I'm going to give some of the modelers you mentioned a shot. Thanks for this video! Easily subbed.
This video shows me how the mini8k is not for 'plug an play' and how an inexperienced user would feel when using it, e.g. quite frustrated. I've had a mini4k for a couple of years, and the levelling, taking out the prints, and resin temperature are things that I've learnt how to fix along the way. 3D printers, as they are, are mostly, for people that don't mind tweaking a lot with the product and facing issues. ps.- The transition layers, that's on you Fauxhammer. The manufacturer recommends a certain number of transition layers.
I have this printer for nearly two years now and cannot relate to any of the issues you highlight here. It's by far the most accurate and easiest printer to level of all 7 resin printers I have. I tested rigidity of test patterns in all corners and it's incredibly homogeneous. Also, I got resin cured to the screen on 5 occasions and due to the glass like cover, it can be lifted off relatively easily. On an unrelated note, I print functional parts and use more than 20 different resins. This is the only printer that can print all of them. The Mighty and the Mega are much less universal and the Anycubic 5s Pro is the least versatile. And the printer stays leveled forever. I do dozens of prints between leveling.
Good info, thanks Faux. I'm just about to buy my first printer and it will definitely be a Phrozen 8K. I'm torn between the mini and the mighty though. It would be nice to be able to print big pieces in one go on the bigger build plate. I do see that Phrozen have a conversion kit for the Mighty that ups it to 12K. I would love to see a review of that. Especially since the Photon seemed a bit of a fail in the 12K department. Not that anyone needs 12k, by the look of it...
Will you at some point do a video about resins for this printer? I’ve just ordered one an some 8k and some water washable model gray resins from phrozen. Personally I don’t mind the click bait titles, I assume most of the titles and thumbnails in here are click bait to some extent or at least over exaggerated. Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much, honestly, no I won’t do that. I have 3 other 3D printers to review at the mo along with my job and my family. I tend to review them all with the intended out if box experience. So, the reading intended to be used with it is my focus.
i have this printer and i do not have this issue at all , i bed leveled once when i bought it 1.5 year ago and that was it. at the start of the video he has overexposed bottom layers thats why the models stuck in the build plate , with a 1h testing you can calibrate it perfectly
You're an experienced 3D printer and you still struggled with this device, that about sums up why GW is not worried about 3D printing. As to the claim they are the pinacle of models - that's arguable, even potentially in plastic - but definitely once we go to resin and metal model companies.
This printer sells for $900 in my neck of the woods. That's maybe 6 boxes of my favorite Age of Sigmar models. GW pricing is the real threat to their business model. I hope the 3D printing market forces GW to be more reasonable in their pricing.
@@FauxHammer I’d like the model market to be more like the paint market. If GW didn’t have to compete with Army Painter, Vallejo, and many others, I’m sure they’d charge $20 per paint pot.
@@FauxHammer I’m all for paying GW’s amazing talent fairly. It’s paying shareholders, who maximize profit over quality and accessibility, that makes me want to find a quality 3D printer. I’ve been searching recently for that reason, and your video was perfectly timed for me! The algorithm is working for you!
@@jb_19 thanks, that's good to see. If you want some advice then check this. we've tested a ton of 3D printers for exactly this reason. but if you have any specific questions, hit me up directly. for miniatures you want a blend of high ppi and build plate size. But if you wait just month, Anycubic are releasing the D2 which is a follow up to the Ultra, an amazing printer for miniatures. www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/
Great video as always. You were just missing how much it costs... initial cost of the printer, software, etc and then running costs, resin, etc. That is the missing jigsaw piece for me
Fiar point, it's so expensive. I think the main issue for me is getting the RRP in various locales. But I;m sure I could pull something togethther, even if it was just a screen shot showing the price on screen.
Ive been using FDM machines for awhile. Run an FDM shop but why does resin printing get me so excited? Haha. I will be buying this or the 8k mega. Haven't decided yet but wow. This thing looks incredible. 😮 Should be a good first resin machine i hope.
@FauxHammer oh yeah. I'm not gonna be needing this quality most likely, more so into quantity but I may end up getting a couple. Never done resin printing so gotta see how I like the process first.
@@FauxHammer well.. I have 17 unpainted armies... So my smooth brain thinks that if I get a smaller printer I won't just print whole armies and will focus more on printing high quality smaller parts for conversion or single miniatures. Realistically I just want the highest quality prints for painting with basic techniques like drybrushing, washing, contrast etc.
@@nasigoring1525 for the ultimate quality now, that’s still the Mini8k. But I find the 8k resin is only useful for display miniatures. It’s far too brittle to use for tabletop minis But the difference between the mini 8k and the 10” 8k printers is no tiny it’s negligeible that I often opt for the larger printer out of convience.
Had a 4k phrozen 3d printer. Complete ball ache and ruined my love of the hobby for months as everything to do with it was a pain. Sold it and now just buy 3d printed stuff from etzy.
@@sitefms I suppose is different strokes really, 3D printing can still be a lot to wrap your head around. Too much in some cases and there’s still no clearly define way to just follow a guide and get started
@@FauxHammer for sure, different resins act so different as well...I've seen people go down to lower exposure times of 2.4s with the same resin and printer but I can't go below 3s with out 100% fails...its a bit of a personal learning curve!
"They're not doing this because I'm a Phrozen partner." If they know you're a content creator there is still every chance you were getting preferential treatment rather than the usual customer support experience. Seeing how many owners are reporting the same issues with Phrozen was enough to dissuade me. Having to conduct your own repairs on a brand new printer goes beyond 'teething issues' in my book. Numerous and ongoing user reports of dead LCDs and levelling issues probably should have been presented as a stronger indictment than it was here; this was an extraordinarily forgiving review.
Wow, what fair comments to add! At the time, they did not know about me. I think they learned about me from this video, it was only my second, maybe third printer review. But i need to say that times have changed somewhat. For a long time now, printers have arrived with many quirks and early adopters like myself had become used to them. But yeah, only a year on and I'm quite a bit less forgiving.
Re. Is printing a threat to GW. IMO not entirely, not everybody has the space in their house to setup an area for printing, not everybody has the wherewithal to do the research needed for where to locate files, get the best print settings, and educate themselves on the dangers of resin and what safety measure you need to take, plus even if you have people with that then there are definite issues if they have kids or pets who are likely to come into contact with the resin printing area. Then you have the issue that if you are a competitive player then GW are understandably becoming increasingly opposed to the use of 3D printed models/parts being used in their tournaments. I got my resin printer (mars 2) November 2021 and have been printing plenty of stuff with it since then but I still find myself buying GW stuff because I still love 40K/30K and want to support them as well as sometimes just wanting to sit and build an infantry set made of plastic and then use my printer to print off accessories to make those core models my own with custom helmets, custom shoulder pads with my own designs on them etc. For me resin printing is a tool that aids me in my miniature painting/assembly hobby as opposed to completely replacing GW products. Some day in the future it would be nice if GW experimented with releasing their own STL's because I would absolutely be eager to try those out.
Great feedback and thanks, and I also agree that GW should experiment with STL's or even allow people to submit their own models for sale on a GW storefront before other companies like Cults 3D take over. agree that GW should clamp down on Ip theft and this is a tool which should enhance our warhammer minis rather than copy them
I don't like the design they use for attaching the build plate. I do think 8K is that sweet spot, although I think a large screen is the sweet spot there, around 10 inches.
Yes, do not buy this! Buy the Mighty 8K instead. I bought the Mini 8K, but the buildplate was too small to fit medium sized models. I exchanged it for the Mighty 8K and I was happy that I did. The difference in print quality between the Mini and the Mighty is too small to notice and I have a much bigger buidplate to work with.
@@FauxHammer I got it a few days ago, when I went to checkout there was an additional coupon, so it was 458 with tax, to my door. I have it up and running, suprised on how long it takes to cure a white resin (3sec) even though the resin cures on two other pirnters in 1.5 sec, but the resolution and pixel density sure cant be beat!
@@DimensionMachine woah that’s long, I have phrozens 8k snow grey and that’s like 1.7 seconds. I’ve had softer resins like Sirayatech Tenacious Black take 6 seconds!
@@FauxHammer this is some low cost voxel labs white which I have a long pleaant history with on other printers at 1.5 sec for the Mono x and 2 sec for the Jupiter. I have some "8k" grey arriving tomorrow to test with.
Yes 3D Printing is a threat to GW, that being said… GW isn’t doing itself and favors jacking up the price so high… example The Horus Heresy starter boxset is what? $250 USD you get 40 Space Marines, 10 Terminator, 2 Commanders, a Landraider Spartan Tank and Dreadnaught… 54 models in total. That’s 2000 points worth of models in 40k (I checked) and what I used for my Iron Warrior Army for 40k AND 30k. Mean while you got these army boxes that you can’t even used as an army out of the box because it’s just a HQ choice and 3 Elite choices like the Adepta Sororitas Sanctum Guard that cost the almost the same amount and has half the models and is only what? 700 points in total? If the pricing was more in line with the Horus Hersey starter box then I don’t think as many people would try to find other ways to get models.
True, the strater boxes are always best value. it's the good crack to get you hooked, then you buy the smaller sets after. But it's due to production costs. almost every HH player will buy that starter box. or 40K player will buy those starter sets. Whereas only a handful will buy a specific faction box. Volume sales on HIPS models reduce a ton of the investment and is, at least in part, why they can sell these larger boxes much cheaper
Printing is only a threat to GW if they treat it that way...pretty simple really. They should be seeing the writing on the wall and selling STLs for their Own Models. Just from an ecological standpoint, they could far better service their fans with far more fiction and media offerings, sell us 3d STLs to print and mod ourselves, make all CORE units super cheap in cheap packaging, and make most of the physical stuff you sell each year are your one off products, NEW Units, and special boxes. If they aren't careful, they are going to miss the point where everyone realizes they can read the novels and play the battles out in a system that's not trying to gouge them just for the rules and basic accessories to play the damn game, every 3 years at minimum.
3d printer goes Brrrr. Also been playing Warhammer on and off since 3rd edition, I am 31 now yes I was a kid playing ha so was my friend he got me into it. I love printing zero... Issues with it, hell look Australia they pretty much print everything and it's because of GWs own idiotic pricing and has nothing to do with import fees, taxes etc... The Outer Circle broke it down and as to how (he is also in the plastic industry knows all about shipping major products, and making them, costs of dies and plastics) I love when people say "3d printing is their" I ask how and why? They go on about not supporting companies and my response is I am supporting many companies and small independent creators. Also I haven't a clue how to use anti asli stuff at all, I tried setting it up before and didn't know how much or little etc...
A lot to unpack, but I like 3D printing becasue I like cool miniatures. I am a GW fan becasue of the design & quality of those minis and I'm a 3D printing fan becasue I can get stuff closer to my own tastes in the scale I like. i do feel sorry for Aus and their shipping tax.
I think GW should, on top of selling their plastic mini boxes, sell STLs of their minis. Atleast that way people can't pirate their STLs without legal action, and people can print for cheaper, while they still make money.
Got the mini 8Ks, same build plate issue. Same thock sound when it moves the plate down against the screen, similar issues with splicers having issues with it.Two plates, I tighten, they wont level. First was horrible, prints always fell off the left side, second... just not great but not horrible. No big prints near the sides though it's looking like. As questionable as the product and design itself is though... They remove the reviews on their website if they aren't good. That's the part that got me especially concerned. Suffice to say I probably won't ever buy or touch another phrozen printer after this.
That's what all companies do. it's why you should always check UA-cam and all reviews you can before purchase. I'm not the best reviewer out there, none of us are. as VOG has said himself. we can only run limited tests in a limited time. some of us will find things the oher's don't. I;d speak with Phrozen but it sounds like the screw for the z-rail is loose and just needs tightening.
3d printing is a great kick to the ass of GW for them to be competitive and maybe lower the prices, since they became to insane in my country. Also, many kits GW make are outdated and with broken scale. Many creators do the job for GW but you still need the original to blend everything.
Nice vid! And yeah, it does indeed look like a nice printer, but for something so expensive, some kind off protection for the lcd is a must imho. (well, for any resin printer, but especially for premium products) Honestly, I probably won't get one, but that's not because it doesn't look awesome, because it does. It's mostly because I prefer to stick with 1 brand (unless it sucks, but^^), not 20 different ones. :) For the thick raft from using Lychee. That does intrigue me. Is this anything you've experienced with your other printers? Do use Lychee for supports etc, but lately I've done the actual slicing on Chitubox, because of the superiour AA. Will/does 3D printers hurt GW? Probably a bit, but the 3D printing market is still small. And until we've got some serious ease of use improvements. Most "normal" people won't get a resin printer.
I hear you, the Lychee issue was so random and yeah I slice in chitu now to avoid this after supporting in Lyche. not seen any AA issues in Lychee though TBH. I;m the only person who has this slicing issue, using latest lychee and firsmwate, I even spoke to Luke at @geekgamingscenics with the same setup and he didn;t have the issue. I can slice the exact same stl in Lychee and Chitu and I get this thick raft issue in Lychee every time. and early on, it was encroaching into my models
@@FauxHammer So annoying :'( Regarding AA & Chitubox, what I meant was that Chitubox does the AA/Blur better then Lychee, or well, it feels that way to me? :)
Yeah do it if you wnat. Elegoo are a great brand too in their own right. Dunnoo if you saw my Halo minis I printed on the Mars 3 pro, but they are awesome! Link to minis instagram.com/p/Cg4_oYMtt-Y/?
This is not a printer for first time buyers, nor is it a printer for incompetents. If you're not mechanically inclined, you're better off with something from FormLabs, but be prepared to pay more or have a support contract. Lack of skills can be compensated for with money.
well i dunno, it was a very innovative product. I understand the premium and despite a few issues, problems can and do happen with electronics. despite my issues Phrozen were ace and fixed it well for me.
Granted I haven't watched to the end yet, but your bottom layer exposure time is too long. 35 seconds is overbaking it and making it difficult to get the raft off. Try between 15 and 20 seconds. Also your light-off delays are almost half what they should be. I don't think 6 seconds even comes close to covering the lift time. Ask Phrozen about their Light-Off delay calculator.
@@FauxHammer yes, why don't you get a replacement or just sand it flat? Find a granite worktop, ensure that it's flat, then tape sand paper down. Most of us who got printers prior to the 8k had to do this because the surface wasn't etched.
This would be a good VS video against the mono 2! The only thing i fault with the mono2 is the build plate should have been 10in! Ive got the mono 4k i bought that first 3 weeks later the mono 2 the mono 4k build plate is way to small anything that small of a build plate i would honestly say dont buy it! Youll only get annyed and couple weeks later go for a bigger one! Think anyone starting out should just bite the bullet and buy a 10in 8k! I wish i did as now need it! Im an armour modeller the ones I've got are fine for small parts but anything 1.35 sized for conversion kits i need the 10 in!
Games Workshop needs to stop be a dinosaur and adapt. They need to sell 3D printable files, protect their IP that way. Become the leader in 3D printable files. Otherwise they will die and our game will be gone. Their fault not ours that they refused to adapt.
3D printing simply is too much of a “hobby” to really catch on to threaten GW’s bottom line. I have wonderful help from my brother a lot of the time to do 3D miniatures, and it is still a right pain in the butt atop maintaining the space, smell, and sheer patience to print minis. I can see why people prefer to drop $500 on an army they paint up over weeks, picking up new units from thier FLGS piecemeal versus dropping $300 on a new printer, resin, the time to set it all up, consumables like gloves and pry tools, and even then have to remove supports and cure. GW meanwhile has A the convienice of you pick up a box of space marines, it will not stink, no mess, and has clear instructions on how to assemble easily, with real considerations for how you build your models and get attached to them. GW kits have problems (good god fine cast) and as they control the IP and have serious value add (time, mess, space, upfront cost) to thier kits they can keep trucking indefinitely, especially compared to thier real competition for MTG and other table top games for hobby time.
Yeah totally, and there's the build experience you get too. I always liken this to Airfix kts. You can easily buy a model of a plane, but the experience of building it yourself is a huge element. Sure you an print models snap them off the supports and paint them in many cases. and if that's your main drive, painting and playing. cool 3D printing saves you a lot of time. But you loose so much worth in the translation of mediums.
@@FauxHammer its mintures that i am mainly making, the sholderpads looked almost perfect, a bit worried (probably buyers remorse) that the d2 will not make a comparable painting friendly minis even with 16aa blur2
@@4_am So to answer this directly, it will not be as smooth on the D2 as it is on the Mini8k, but the difference is argualbly impercieveble. Are you printing minis to paint and display? or to aint and play with? If the latter, you chose right with the D2. The D2 technology creates sharper prints with more accurate details no matter what resin you use. some resins will be smoother by nature but the results will always be sharper on the DLP printers. The 8k is detailed and smooth, but so far - only with the 8k resin and that resin is too brittle for game pieces. youc an use softer resins but you loose the detail you get from this 8k printer. Making the 8k resolution somewhat pointless.
@@4_am Honestly, the only notible upgrade from the Ultra to the D2 is the bigger print area. The print detail is impercieveably different between them and they take a but longer as the projector uses less power to make it more economical. but you are taking 1.6 seconds on my ultra to 1.8 seconds on this. Though sometimes use 2.2 for very lightly supported models.
@@FauxHammer how would you feel if someone was copying your product to me it wrong and resin is going to be a dying art even horsy’s heresy is going plastic
@@spacewolfdazzel4279 I would beel awful, I;d feel robbed. it would be both crushing and devastating. I;m not sure why you are belabouring the point. As I said, i agree with you. I'm not sure why you say resin is a Dying art, I infer that you view of the hobbyphere is primarily Games Workshop.But there is a whole world out there far beyond what Games Workshop produce. I'm a huge fan of Games Workshop, I'm supported by games Workshop for the blog and it's a joy/dream come true to support them and their miniatures are still unrivalled. Each release is truly an exciting event. I've transitioned beyond covering GW knock-off's. Even One Page Rules, one of my faves are cutting it close with their "not Sisters of Battle" and "not Skaven" models. so much that I'm considering not covering them much longer. because their non-gw inspired models are frequently far better. However , to your point. GW are still producing new rein bits for heresy so no, it's not a dying art. I compare this often to the music and film industry which became digitised in the last 2 decades. it started with piracy and resulted an a huge industry change where we now have Spotify and Netflix. The World is changing, - this will force change for a lot of companies. There will be turmoil throughout and that;s awful. but out the back end I hope that this is beneficial to hobbyists in general, be thatfrom GW - 3D printing or otherwise. I agree that copying is wrong and it does hurt people. But at the same time, there's nothing new under the sun. Inspired works are what they are.
Oh God! Have I used clickbait on UA-cam! We should tell someone! This behaviour surely needs to be reported! Thanks for your comment. No sure if banter sarcasm or an actual dig, but engagement helps boost the channels reach. So cheers!
@@FauxHammer Mostly banter! was researching what resin printer to get and came across your video. Was really rather impressed with the quality of the video. it was just that the content I was looking for wasnt there. from memory you talked about individual problems with your machine, about what software to use and then a rant about the resin used. All very interesting, but very little argumention towards the "DO NOT BUY THIS MACHINE ON YOUR LIFE" vibe you built through thumbnail and tone in the beginning. Thus my first comment. But I respect the hussle, good luck with the channel :)
@@marcusfranzen5814 lol, thanks for the clarification. The thumbnail is not totally in jest, The printer is capable of fantastic results, however, there were a lot of issues I had with it. The stuff I went through. So the resin not being the best for my use case, is an argument against it, the tech issues, component failure, against it. Bed levelling, against it. lack of screen protector. There are many reasons not to buy it, especially now when we have the Uniformation GKTwo within the same price range. It;s a great printer, but it's also a PITA and since this review I never used it again. If there is something specific you wanted to know, feel free to ask. Unlike other Tubers, I'm quite responsive in the comments and try to respond to everyone.
never heard of this crazy amount of problems before on this product LOL :D and wouldnt it be easier to let a friend cnc cut a new even plate? :D i love the turnout of the video at the end haha i exactly know what you mean! Its like playing skyrim for the first time and just love it. then play it few years later and mod and cheat the hell out of it, i lost the fun on it lol :D
I suppose so yeah. hey I got the printer late and If I did a video like everyone else saying how great it was, how is that A, any use to anyone and B gonna get viewed?
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I truly despise the click-bait thing you've got going on.
So do I, but having spent 12 months with videos getting great feedback and no clicks, I wanted to give it a go. I hate myself for doing it though.
@@FauxHammer That makes two of us.
@@rangda_prime thanks, valuable feedback
@@FauxHammer Ok, sorry about that, I'll be more constructive. If you want click-bait titles since they do better with the algorithm, take a leaf from Disocurse miniatures and WarhammerMan. They both use sensationalist, overblown titles to their videos that seem to do well, but their titles are not the opposite of what their videos' conclusions turn out to be? You could have titled this video something like "CAN THIS PRINTER DESTROY GAMES WORKSHOP?!?" or "THIS MIGHT BE IT FOR FIGURE COMPANIES - is the Phrozen a GAME CHANGER?!?"
Or something else in that vein that says that this might be a an incredible video, "You'll never guess what happened next", baiting people in to watch it. I understand you want to get on the algorithm's good side, I respect the hustle. But a friend of mine is considering buying an 8K printer and seeing your title I felt compelled to watch it to see if he should avoid the Phrozen 8k. Then you edited the video starting with all the problems you has, so I kept watching since it was looking really bad. And at the end you just turned around and i realized you just wanted to get me to stay on for the full 15 minutes. At that stage I got pissed, because that's... kinda shitty and wasting my time when you could have been upfront from the start. I guess for you it works since you then get more people watching your entire vid etc, but is it worth it if you alienate people? the only thing I've learned is that I can't trust your video titles and that you are willing to waste my time, so why should I give you any more of it?
@@rangda_prime Oh wow, thanks man, this is super helpful feedback and citing sources of good examples is really helpful to me.
I admit, it's a hard task to come up with good titles. I;'e spent over a year doing UA-cam vids (with accurate titles and thumbnails) all of which are getting great feedback in regard to the content. (So I;m genuinely grateful for negative feedback as I;m sick of have smoke blown up my ass) But when comparing to other channels, nobody is clicking my vids. Click through rate is like 3.5%. that;s terrible. Whilst I get some views from my existing web audience. places like fauxhammer.com still make up less than 2% of the views on a particular video.
So I need to push the angle in thumbnails and titles. I have perhaps gone a bit too harsh here and admit that my thumbnail says don't buy it, but the conclusion of the video is do buy it. Definately do buy it.
Heres the problem though, this video is getting so many more views and clicks than any of my other vids. where''d normally have about 400 views by now, I'm getting 1200.
The retention in the video (people watching the video for it;s whole length) is above 50% evenly spread across the board. so it'ks keeping more than half of those viewers engaged for the full vid, despite the title.
And my click through rate, normally at 2-3%, is now above 9%. all of this within the first day.
So I get your point, i totally do, I hate clickbait titles myself, but the terrible truth appear to be, they work....
I'm sure once/if I can break through to have a big following it will be much easier and I'll find a good balance, but until then. the numbers are telling me this is the way to go :(
I'm sorry, i'm genuinely sorry
3-D printing is to GW what digital music was to the record companies. If they do not learn to embrace it, it will destroy them.
Agreed
Aye
if GW had an STL patreon I bet theyd pull in an extra million a month
It's a way off yet though, 3D printing is a hobby in itself, and a great one, but it's not all that accessible yet. Reliability and ease of use needs to improve a lot.
I do think GW needs to make their own version of Heroforge if you will for this very reason.
Good thing is in a year or two's time the quality of the next model will be better/cheaper or more user friendly. The space is progressing at such a pace.
too fast! I can't keep up and I get most of these things for free!
Just a note: If you ever have an issue with removing the base layer from your plate, use freeze spray or air duster (upside down) and cool that base layer down. It'll almost fall off the build plate. I've also put IPA in a freezer and used the cold IPA to do this.
I also like the flexible build plates but they come with their own problems.
Great Tip
Or just lower the bottom layer exposure time 💁♂️
Just a note. bottom layer exposure testing takes 45 min to 1h to calibrate perfectly.
flex plates like wham bam are good maybe for a year or less (depends how much you print) then it starts to fail.
Resin printing is all about calibrating your resins and that is 1h youtube search and 1h doing them and you are all set.
Dont be marketing victim , do the grind its very easy
ps. i've done all of the above. trust me
Having just received my Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k today after waiting over 10 months for it, I opened this "DO NOT BUY" video with some trepidation. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find that, in spite of some problems with this machine, your review was very positive and the problems can be worked around. Right now I'm looking to see how large an area I need to dedicate for a workstation for it. I intend to rewatch your video and make notes on the problems you encountered along with their solutions. Thanks for your review.
Oh that’s great to hear and I’m so glad you liked it. I’ll be honest, I loved this printer so much (once I got it working) that I it just felt right to make the best negative video on UA-cam. Everyone was already saying it was amazing, so I decided to say everything wrong with it too- but it’s still amazing.
Have fun with your and any issues shout up, or check out the support group linked in the description
@@FauxHammer That’s something that is so important is is way overlooked nowadays on youtube. UA-cam has become a circlejerk of paid endorsements from companies for positive reviews on their product. As someone who is going to purchase this printer regardless, I appreciate the hell out of you making this video and providing the helpful information nobody really talks about
Awful bait title.
For the price this is probably the best printer you can get right now. I would say that the anycubic m3 plus comes close, but mostly in terms of extra features that you get with it. I think the saturn 2 will be a solid rival to this puppy though.
Honestly I can't wait to see what innovations they come up with in this space in the next 5 to 10 years!
yeah i'm on the fence and considering buying the Saturn 2...the x/y resolution is very close to this one but you have a bigger and more comfortable plate
Yeah the Saturn 2 is a contender, I should get one writhing next few weeks to compare
@@enricobononi8655 saturn 2 is the go currently.
phrozen is a gigantic pain in the ass. and despite what this guys experience is i have seen countless nightmare stories about their customer service
@@tatooine_dream I was set on buying the Sonic Mini 8K, but then I found out about the Saturn 2. Now, Im leaning towards that printer. It's also 100 bucks cheaper where I live, so it's winning me over. I'd love the Sonic Mini 8K, but hearing about all these problems turn me off, plus it's more expensive to boot. I'm torn now.
For $499 its half the cost of anycubic
8:23 what printer did you use to print this space marine? It looks awesome
That’s a model from the shop. Used for scale
i have the 8k mini and i was wondering why you hated it but it turns out you love it just as much as the rest of us i legit started making my own 3d models for warhammer in blender because my models now look better then what i can buy for warhammer xd
3:35 What do you mean, put an extra sheet of fep over the screen? Lay it over the screen and sticky tape it?
exactly that, I should have videotaped it, but I did it off cam and I wasn't doing it again wasting another FEP.
Though others have suggested to get a large screen protectpr for an Ipad or similar and cut it to size. Just dont get one with UV protection or anti glare
@@FauxHammer I will do that tomorrow, sounds smart! I read some comments about it and people are content with it. Thanks for the advice 🙏
@@FauxHammer how about quality adding another fep? Isnt the resolution affected?
@@usimionato not that I’ve noticed, no
What type of resin did you use for all of those miniatures?
Quick question, but maybe a slow answer. Your print layouts are very dense. How to you get all of the uncured resin out of those? What is you cleaning process for them?
Good question. I have a 2 stage cleanig process. I use this Pickle jar hich is really large to get most of the resin off. amzn.to/3RYdB9t
Stage 2 is 5-10 mins in this wash and cure station amzn.to/3BDcDdy
I also use industrial grade Methylated Spirit insted of Isopropanol which is far better at cleaning and doesnt go cloudly like ISO. amzn.to/3QF005V
Occasionally I get lathe things that do not fit in the pickle jar as a whole component, so i'll snap the parts from teh base before using the wash station.
hope that helps
Have you thought of using a Wham Bam Resin print surface? That seems like a very popular upgrade.
most of these problems could be fixed by using a magnetic build plate. Seriously its a must have, I'm never ever going to get a 3d printer without it.
The unprotected lcd is atrocious though. seriously what are they thinking? Leaks happen all the time and there's almost nothing you can do to prevent it.
yeah I considered a mag plate but couldn;t be bothered - i ca't review a product if I need to buy extras to get it to work properly.
Is 8k resin more brittle on average or is that just for this brand in your experience?
8k is just a marketing term. They are all a bit different. I found Elegoo’s Space Grey 8k a bit nicer and about as sharp as this. Sirayatech fast is about the same as this and that’s not called 8k
@@FauxHammer I see, thank you for responding
Have you not tried leveling the bed in the vat instead of on some pieces of paper...?
Nope, was only advise of this the other day
Hi!! just watched your video and I was about to order the printer from Amazon..Which 8k printer you recommend?
Why do you need 8k? 8k isn;t really relevant as the screen siaze makes a big difference - hopefully this helps www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/
Nice review.
This is why I kept with my 2K mono printer. Screens are cheap relative to higher resolution screens and the detail I get is sufficient for my needs. Yeah, 4-8K would be nice, but then the maintenance and upkeep costs go up with it.
It's getting cheaper pretty darn fast.
@@FauxHammer Oh god yeah. I'm personally waiting for DLP resin printers to come down to a reasonable price band.
Anycubic had it on massive reduction but I missed it.
Thanks for very interesting video Pls.Could you explain better the operation with chitubox in order to divide the model for avoiding the tplatform thikness issue?
Not sure what you mean?
Have you checked out the 12k upgrade for this printer?
There isn’t one. There is one for the “Mighty” 8k
@@FauxHammer Ah, my bad.
what do you think about the Elegoo Saturn 2? the x/y resolution is very close 22 vs 28 micron... Z resolution is the same for all the printers. i'm more concerned about the artefacts you were mentioning in the shoulder pads
Don't get my saturn for a couple of weeks yet.
I have this printer, but it is collecting dust after it's third print. You didn't mention the loud noise of the fan, so your fan works okay? Mine sounds like an airplane ready to take off while it is printing. I contacted Phrozen but they say it is normal.
So can you please tell me how much noise the fan makes, comparing it to an Elegoo printer?
I have the Elegoo Mars 3 and the Elegoo is far louder than the 8k I have, I can hardly hear the fan on the 8k, it;s there but i can easily tune it out, the constant blower noise from the Mars 3 is frustrating.
where did you find those halo marines files plz ?
If you Google “free halo minis” you should see my article on Fauxhammer.com explaining. It’s also linked on my Mars 3 pro video description.
I was looking at the Elegoo Saturn 8k (smaller of the two, not the Saturn 2 8k).. there's a big price difference between this and the Elegoo.. is there a quality difference?
Not noticeably. the Saturn 2 and the Saturn 8k are basically the same thing. Both have 28.5 Micron XY resoluton. the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k has 22 micron.
Can you tell a difference by eye though? hardly...
@@FauxHammer But if looking at the Saturn 8k or the Photon D2.. is D2 the clear winner? I saw your other video where you were talking about the D2.. I'm just concerned about size of the print bed/screen size. It's specifically to print 32mm minis, I'm not interested in large minis like tanks or daemons etc.. just troops/characters.. maybe 30k scale non daemon primarch type size..
@@chrisrichardson1600 the D2 is easier to use. Because DLP light is more direct than LCD. You will find a much wider range of exposure times give you successful prints in the D2.
Saturn 2 is an LCD printer so it needs to be dialled in like any other.
For your use case, I’d get the Saturn 8k for the price point. You don’t need the extra height of the Saturn 2 and because of that, there’s very little difference between them that warrants the extra expense.
@@FauxHammer so the Saturn 8k would be better over the D2 simply on a price point? I remember you saying something about increasing the anti analysing to blur out the layer lines.. I guess I could always start my resin printing with the Saturn 8k (a much higher step up than my current Anycubic i3 Mega) see how I do.. thanks a lot for your advice!
@@chrisrichardson1600 The D2 is good becasue it just works, it's simple, has fewer components to breakdown and the projector lasts far longer than any LCD would.
ut for the convenience of the size you get with the larger 8k printers, that;s what i;d reach for now.
but this is a realisation i;ve only just come too in the last few weeks when testing out the M3 Premium - here's a preview link to that video (pending a few more edits) drive.google.com/file/d/1WGPV9QEfF8znUSPzU__mwXio5ULUfcFa/view?usp=share_link
but yeah, I'd pick the Saurn 8k.
I've just started playing with the Saturn 2 and have the 8k on the way.
I'm the lucky one who had zero issues since day one. My only concern is the FEP breaking on me.
get a screen protector of some kind, I've seen no many bad cases.
Hi mate,
Im a bit confused as to why this is ranking no. 2 on your best miniatures printers list, when your review says "do not buy" can you shed some light on this?
Best regards
Sure thing, watch the video, not just the thumbnail. 😉
@@FauxHammer Took me too long to get the jest ;) I was worried about the resin sticking to the plate, and the fact I could only find the printer at a low cost from the website shipping only from outside of the EU, so I went with the Saturn 2 8k after your excellent review. Thanks alot ! And thank you for the review on the Anycubic m5s - cancelled my preorder after seeing it :)
I'm considering getting into the hobby, the thought of having to become a printer engineer/technician is really putting me off, I want it to work out of the box and I don't want any problems with parts until I replace it. Messing around with settings and software is plenty enough for me I don't have the time or patience for anything else.
If you want that, your choice wouldnt be these "hobby grade" printers. Unless you shelve out upwards of 5-10k USD you'll probably have to see that there is some techical aspects to printing. (even at the higher priceranges, there are issues). Tinkering with your printer, settings etc is a part of the hobby, even thought that tinkering is alot less than what the FDM side gives you. But expect to have to replace a screen, clean out a Z axis and tighten a few screws during your time with your printer.
Bet the D2 from anycubic. Most user friendly and long lasting printer you can get now, but it’s not cheap.
hi! whats the name of the tape for the lcd screen? thanks!
Kapton Tape amzn.to/3VwGs77
What are your thoughts on the Phrozen mini 8k or the Anycubic Photon Ultra D2?
This is the Mini 8k, My Photon D2 video is out later today ua-cam.com/video/vncgc5o0yaQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=FauxHammer
I want to give some advice here. 3D printing resin does NOT like water, at any stage of it's existance, it will warp and distort. I've deep washed a cured resin piece because it was something my mouth was going to touch, a type of flute whistle thing, and I had printed the whistle in 2 halves. They alligned perfectly at first, but I washed it out with soap and water (after it was fully cured) and then let it dry, then I went to glue it together and it was warped to the point that there was chunky gaps in between the halves, where it used to perfectly cleanly align.
So don't use hot water to soften supports.
What I found useful is to remove the supports before curing. Get the print out, wash it in alcohol or whatever, let it dry, then remove the supports. And obviously use gloves. Most of the supports easily snap off, the supports that are too tricky to get just leave on, or have dedicated tweezers or whatever and try to remove it then. And then put the part in the curing chamber.
I'm guessing that if water can so intensely deform printed parts then I'm sure that builds up internal stress as well, which is the lead reason why other materials with inner stress can get cracks and break, like concrete or non cast acrylic glass.
Also 3D printing resin is UV cured, the more light touches it outside of the dedicated curing phase the more brittle and unflexible it'll become, since you're over baking it basically. Some lamps give off a slight bit of UV as well. So after curing prints try to put them in a box that has no light leaks coming in. Just get some cardboard boxes and duct tape any corners that let in light, and place your finished (so washed and cured) 3D prints in there for the time being. They're only safe once primed with paint. You need to treat all light like poison to the printed parts, like vampires.
So:
-Don't ever use water on 3D prints for any reason at all.
-Remove supports before curing.
-Keep prints out of any light after they're cured until you're ready to prime them.
That's going to keep the prints flexible and sturdy, as well as not warped.
thanks, but it's not the water, it's the resin
You can buy washable resin I don't even own a printer and I know that lol
I just unboxed mine and equipped it with a WhamBam Systems build plate, which is touted as making removal of completed prints from the build plate much easier.... no hammering and chiseling. It is about 3mm thick, so WhamBam recommends using the z-axis offset feature. I have not been able to figure out how to get that set. I figured out that aligning the build plate required holding it down in place and incrementally tightening the screws in a crossing pattern, got that to work. But now I can't figure out how to actually set the plate with offset so that it compensates for the thickness of the WhamBam plate...
I have no idea how offset works. i would have thought just lower the bed with the plate on and set that as the 0 position. Why would you need to offset it? I'll have to read into z-offset and why it matters but I thought that was just an FDM term for setting 0
Could have been clearer in my comment --- The slots in the bracket give you about 4mm vertical play; the slots are approx 8mm in total length and the screws are M4, so about 4mm there. But on my particular printer the zero setting *without* the WhamBam plate is against the bottom limit of the slot, so there's no overhead left to compensate for the WhamBam thickness.
I put in a ticket with Phrozen after I left this comment and they replied with a link to this video. Will give it a shot after I run to the hardware stor for an M4-0.7 bracket screw of the correct length to replace the one with buggered up threads...
drive.google.com/file/d/1d4eMnq34tJVNISESlWbSB39_PqEIxqiN/view
Having had my Mini 8K sat on the shelf for two years unused I thought I'd better do some research before I finally go for it.
This video was brilliant!
hahaha, thanks, I didn;t know people were stull watching this. and it;s still a great printer!
I waited over a year and half to use mine and regret not pushing the Mini-4K off the bench and using it sooner!
The unprotected screen sucks shit though. In the event you get a few dots of thinned, set resin on your screen, DO NOT use Acetone to try to clean it!! The Phrozen LCD is not made from hardened glass, or any glass, unless it is and it has some sort of plasticized coating that reacts with Acetone.
I ruined a nearly perfectly fine LCD on mine by doing just that... Luckily I had a spare on hand (have since bought a pair of spare LCD's) so within an hour or so I was up and running again.
The advice for buying a screen protector is all well and fine, but I ruined the 3-pack I had trying to get one installed without trapping any dust underneath it.
Also... That ridiculously over thick gasket around the LCD prevents the screen protector from sitting perfectly flush with the LCD near the edges of the gasket.
Much prefer the machines that have the LCD protected by flush mounted tempered glass (my old AnyCubic Photon I and my resin to brass casting Mars 4 Ultra have this), but you can't beat the resolution of this machine once you get things dialed in (though the Mars 4 Ultra DOES have better resolution, I still use my Mini-8K for most resin prints).
I really hope 3D printing is a threat to GW. Their prices (especially given the 'overseas tax' of an extra 50%) are criminal.
I just got this as my first resin printer. What settings did you use for your successful prints?
I wish that by telling you it would help. but everyone needs to work this out for themselves based on the environment their printer is in.
Use Lychee and check the communit profiles. get a profile for this printer and your resin which has the most feedback balanced with most success. then just print out the exposure test and try to match the number of holes to number of posts. when they match, that;s your settings.
Dialing this resin in though is more difficult than most and it;s severely affected by temperature like dental resins.
I almost did not buy because of the title lucky your vid was so good I kept watching to find out that you really did not mean the title... tricky... I already have a Frozen Mega and so I have encountered similar issues (new screens, punctures leveling etc...) but yes they are worth the trouble they do a great job... I will go forth now and buy the mini
Just bought one of these and very keen to try it out after watching your video! How does it hold up 7 months on? Is it truly capable of matching GW quality at the same sizes?
7 months later I’m reviewing new printers, I’ve hardly touched it since the initial review I’m afraid.
Yep, it’s more than capable, but in fairness so are quite a few printers now. Hope you enjoy it, it’s a great printer
@@FauxHammer Thanks for coming back to me so quickly!
Are there any other printers you'd recommend over the mini 8k if my main goal is achieving the best possible quality for printing miniatures (say 32mm)?
@@Alex-xh4jn It's a hard one. I print miniatures mostly, more than anything else. And when I print miniatures I tend to use resins, that are generally a bit more flexible. Becasue the higher detail resins are brittle and small components can snap easily. If you are gaming with your models, then I'd opt for somethingwith a similar print resolution but have the convenience of a larger build plate... e.g the saturn 2 or Saturn 8k, the M3 premium, or the Mighty 8k. I have videos on all of these printers, with a comparison video out next week.
If you must, MUST! have the absolut best detail. then yes, on paper this has a higher resolution. but to avoid layer lines yuou'll need to apply antiailiasing and image blur., which IMHO all but negates the benefit you will get from this higher resolution. especially since most miniatures do not have the detail to benefit from that resolution anyway!
@@FauxHammer awesome thanks for the detailed response! So assuming having no voxel lines and then having the highest level of detail possible are my priorities in that order - do you think the mighty may be better suited? I guess either way I'd be running with AA 2 and maybe blur 2 as well, so the question would be at that point, does the mini offer anything more over the mighty in terms of quality 🤔
@@Alex-xh4jn I genuinely can’t see a difference on minis between the mini and mighty, the mighty has the benefit of a larger plate.
We are talking a difference in resolution of 6.5 microns. Less than a thenth the thickness of a human hair…
If you can perceive that difference, I wish I had your eyesight.
Not sure if the price difference, but I would opt for the larger printer.
I dropped the base layers way down, I'm currently at 20secs. I use a #2 artists pallet knife to get parts off, it's edge is way thinner than a regular scrapper.
Great tip, I should try that
Very detailed look at one printer. As someone who fears all the maintenance and constant configurations I am still not interested but will continue to look at paying others to print some of the amazing designs out there. Archvillian have caught my eye but I have a few more designers to look at now.
lThat;s fair, they can be cumbersome and it;s why I said at the end, we need some ease of use innovations.
Self filling vat, heated vat. fully automated levelling, self emptying vat. roller bar to remove prints from FEP, Stuff like that, all of which are available on different printers,just not together for a consumer price.
Some of your initial issues are why I stopped using Phrozen and switched to Elegoo. I love 3D printing and I am a long time Warhammer player. I feel it adds to the hobby. Between bitz and bases, not to mention other game systems.
I do love Phrozen for theoir build quality. everything about the printer says premium product to me, but yeah there can be some teething issues.
I agree, the best part of 3D printing in the hobbysphere is enhancing what we already have. Unique party on Warhammer, higher quality boardgame pieces. or my future project, a full Space Hulk set with 3D printed scenery.
@@FauxHammer absolutely, I also love the ability to amek oop stuff. If it's not produced anymore, I can make it and enjoy it without the crazy ebay tax.
what printer do you recommend? Please let me know I do miniatures as well
right now, the Uniformation GKTwo - i'm recomending it to everyone www.uniformation3d.com/?sca_ref=3575400.VmDMwlcezK
Video out next week
@@FauxHammer I will just ask you again in the next decade!
@@PanzerEdelweissStevenDelMar555 why?
@@FauxHammer I feel like I really want the reliable printers! So I’m just going to be 3d modelling for now and not print anything!
@@PanzerEdelweissStevenDelMar555 I'm confused, the printer I just linked is super reliable...
the flex plates like ones from wham bam are nice for removing prints. I do wish they etched the plates though. for you issue with the screws lifting the bed a washer in-between the bracket and the mounting arm may help as well. I haven't had that issue or the issue with the z rod. I really love this printer and have been very happy with it. I don't have any failures with it that are not due to my mistakes (not putting a support in the right spot).
a tip if you have to replace the outer tape is you can make a flat print that fills more then the entire bed with a really long layer print. then print it without the bed and build plate. then you know you aren't obscuring the printable area when placing the tape.
good tip. yeah i was gonna try a flex plate but I;m reviewing the OOB experience rather than go beyond it to show what can be bought as an extra.
You ever do one on hobby burnout I guess I don’t really know, I have models and garage kits and even some model kits from my hobby shop I bought with ideas of projects or something to do but I have the biggest problem which is I sit down turn in tv and I’m there for hours and no hobby stuff gets done.
I don’t have a video on hobby burnout. But when I get like that. I do different things, like go for walks. Inspiration will come back when it does
To prevent the build plate torquing when you tighten the screws, install one or two washers on each of the four attachment screws. This will take up some of the torque when tightening each screw. Had a similar issue on my Sonic Mini-4k.
Also... The Sonic Mini-4K has the same LCD screen design. No protective layer of glass above the LCD.
I have both the Mini-4K and the Mini-8K... Have had the 8K since June, but haven't made the time to clear some space on the bench to set it up. As amazing as I'm sure it's going to be, the 4K is pretty damn good as it is!
I have the Mars 3 pro which has the same res as the mini 4K. And yeah, most models do not have the detail to show off what the 8k is capable of.
@@FauxHammer Yeah... On my MIni-4K I'm printing parts that have raised letters on the part. On one surface, the letters are about 0.2mm thick x 0.15mm proud of the surface. They print perfectly. On another surface, the letters are 0.1mm thick x 0.1mm proud and about 0.4mm tall. Under magnification, they're legible, though a tad pixelated, to the naked eye it looks like a near perfect name plate.
That's on the 4K! Not entirely sure why I purchased the 8K, but at the time I'd gotten some unanticipated $$$ to pay for it, so I said "what the heck...".
Can't imagine what the 8K will do... Surely better quality, with legibility on parts the next scale down.
Thanks for the video. Its my first 3D printer and Im having the same issues. Currently Im printing with 4k resin on the 8k Mini and its a sluge...it needs more time for example the Elegoo Mars and in here in germany the 8k resin costs 70 Euros.
Other than that: I adore the 8k in comparison to the 4k prints. The 4k is more bendy and sometimes a little bit sticky (even if cleaned properly). The 8k needs little to none curing time and is ready after cleanup.
You can’t possibly be having the same issues as me- based on other comments I’ve had. I’m an incompetent user who makes false statements lol.
I do like the 4k resin, more durable then at 8k
here's something fun.
i order a phronzen sonic mini 4k (it's cheaper and good enough for my needs).
about 2 days after i ordered (not direct but from a local reseller) they sms'd me telling me if i'm ok with them upgrading my order to this, for free :)
here's hoping my lcd won't burn on the first test burned :P
I just got into resin printing and all your points are spot-on. I bought a Grey Knights team and also printed a bunch of knockoff (called quite silvery knights, lol) and the printed ones are OUTRAGEOUS. GW doesn't compare. I also didn't spend an hour gluing stuff together!
I'm using an ELEGOO Saturn 3 Ultra, and it's capable of higher definition than anything I've thown at it so far. I'm going to give some of the modelers you mentioned a shot. Thanks for this video! Easily subbed.
This video shows me how the mini8k is not for 'plug an play' and how an inexperienced user would feel when using it, e.g. quite frustrated.
I've had a mini4k for a couple of years, and the levelling, taking out the prints, and resin temperature are things that I've learnt how to fix along the way.
3D printers, as they are, are mostly, for people that don't mind tweaking a lot with the product and facing issues.
ps.- The transition layers, that's on you Fauxhammer. The manufacturer recommends a certain number of transition layers.
Yep, my fault.
I have this printer for nearly two years now and cannot relate to any of the issues you highlight here.
It's by far the most accurate and easiest printer to level of all 7 resin printers I have. I tested rigidity of test patterns in all corners and it's incredibly homogeneous.
Also, I got resin cured to the screen on 5 occasions and due to the glass like cover, it can be lifted off relatively easily.
On an unrelated note, I print functional parts and use more than 20 different resins. This is the only printer that can print all of them. The Mighty and the Mega are much less universal and the Anycubic 5s Pro is the least versatile.
And the printer stays leveled forever. I do dozens of prints between leveling.
Good info, thanks Faux. I'm just about to buy my first printer and it will definitely be a Phrozen 8K. I'm torn between the mini and the mighty though. It would be nice to be able to print big pieces in one go on the bigger build plate. I do see that Phrozen have a conversion kit for the Mighty that ups it to 12K. I would love to see a review of that. Especially since the Photon seemed a bit of a fail in the 12K department. Not that anyone needs 12k, by the look of it...
I have this printer and a few other phrozen printers and I love it. I feel terrible that you had all those problems.
Thanks, it’s an awesome printer. I feel terrible too.
Will you at some point do a video about resins for this printer?
I’ve just ordered one an some 8k and some water washable model gray resins from phrozen.
Personally I don’t mind the click bait titles, I assume most of the titles and thumbnails in here are click bait to some extent or at least over exaggerated.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much, honestly, no I won’t do that. I have 3 other 3D printers to review at the mo along with my job and my family. I tend to review them all with the intended out if box experience. So, the reading intended to be used with it is my focus.
@@FauxHammer oh, well it was worth a shot!
i use a flex plate and it works, i never had any problems with my mini 8k
i considered that for me, but I;m reviewing the printer as is. tPhrozen don;t supply a flex plate, So i can;t review a flex plate.
Is this levelling issue present on the mighty 8k too? because my prints are sticking too well in certain parts of the build plate and less in others.
i have this printer and i do not have this issue at all , i bed leveled once when i bought it 1.5 year ago and that was it.
at the start of the video he has overexposed bottom layers thats why the models stuck in the build plate , with a 1h testing you can calibrate it perfectly
You're an experienced 3D printer and you still struggled with this device, that about sums up why GW is not worried about 3D printing. As to the claim they are the pinacle of models - that's arguable, even potentially in plastic - but definitely once we go to resin and metal model companies.
I'm actually intriged by this as you were swooning over this like Fabius Bile over a new toy
It has become my primary hobby... !
@@FauxHammer glad to hear as still trying to convince the misses to let me buy one...or 6!
@@matthewwilson5074 if you ask for 6 she may settle at 1 ;)
Watches a video on why you should not buy something
Watches till the end, and immediately buys the thing
This printer sells for $900 in my neck of the woods. That's maybe 6 boxes of my favorite Age of Sigmar models. GW pricing is the real threat to their business model. I hope the 3D printing market forces GW to be more reasonable in their pricing.
yeah, i'd like to see this shake things up at biat and somehow level the playing field.
@@FauxHammer I’d like the model market to be more like the paint market. If GW didn’t have to compete with Army Painter, Vallejo, and many others, I’m sure they’d charge $20 per paint pot.
@@jb_19 well, they already charge more per ml but that is used to pay a team to make paint guides and such
@@FauxHammer I’m all for paying GW’s amazing talent fairly. It’s paying shareholders, who maximize profit over quality and accessibility, that makes me want to find a quality 3D printer. I’ve been searching recently for that reason, and your video was perfectly timed for me! The algorithm is working for you!
@@jb_19 thanks, that's good to see. If you want some advice then check this. we've tested a ton of 3D printers for exactly this reason. but if you have any specific questions, hit me up directly. for miniatures you want a blend of high ppi and build plate size. But if you wait just month, Anycubic are releasing the D2 which is a follow up to the Ultra, an amazing printer for miniatures.
www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/
what is it like printing 6mm miniatures?
I’m sorry, I didn’t try
Great video as always. You were just missing how much it costs... initial cost of the printer, software, etc and then running costs, resin, etc. That is the missing jigsaw piece for me
Fiar point, it's so expensive. I think the main issue for me is getting the RRP in various locales. But I;m sure I could pull something togethther, even if it was just a screen shot showing the price on screen.
Ive been using FDM machines for awhile. Run an FDM shop but why does resin printing get me so excited? Haha. I will be buying this or the 8k mega. Haven't decided yet but wow. This thing looks incredible. 😮
Should be a good first resin machine i hope.
I hope you understand that the print quality between this and the mega is different?
@FauxHammer oh yeah. I'm not gonna be needing this quality most likely, more so into quantity but I may end up getting a couple. Never done resin printing so gotta see how I like the process first.
As someone looking to buy their first 3D printer, thank you. I think the Photon D2 is it for me... although the voxel lines scare me.
It’s a hard choice. For the same price, why not get a larger printer like a Saturn 2 Or M3 Premium
@@FauxHammer well.. I have 17 unpainted armies... So my smooth brain thinks that if I get a smaller printer I won't just print whole armies and will focus more on printing high quality smaller parts for conversion or single miniatures.
Realistically I just want the highest quality prints for painting with basic techniques like drybrushing, washing, contrast etc.
@@nasigoring1525 for the ultimate quality now, that’s still the Mini8k. But I find the 8k resin is only useful for display miniatures. It’s far too brittle to use for tabletop minis
But the difference between the mini 8k and the 10” 8k printers is no tiny it’s negligeible that I often opt for the larger printer out of convience.
@@FauxHammer Thanks for the insights, they're fantastic. My miniatures will be used for some play, for sure.
Saturn 2 it is!
I've got none of these concerns. Removed your clickbait from my recommendations. Good luck out there 😊
Thanks, if this isn’t for you then that’s ok. I appreciate your candor and kind farewell. All the best to you too
Had a 4k phrozen 3d printer. Complete ball ache and ruined my love of the hobby for months as everything to do with it was a pain. Sold it and now just buy 3d printed stuff from etzy.
that;s unfortunate it can be hard to get started I agree, I should do a video to help make it simpler for people.
My 4k mini has been incredible after maybe 4/5 failed prints it's worked faultlessly for a year+
@@sitefms I suppose is different strokes really, 3D printing can still be a lot to wrap your head around. Too much in some cases and there’s still no clearly define way to just follow a guide and get started
That sucks man I have a 4k mighty and it's been awesome
@@FauxHammer for sure, different resins act so different as well...I've seen people go down to lower exposure times of 2.4s with the same resin and printer but I can't go below 3s with out 100% fails...its a bit of a personal learning curve!
13:45 probably the highest praise a review could give. Wow.
Yeah and it keeps delivering!
"They're not doing this because I'm a Phrozen partner."
If they know you're a content creator there is still every chance you were getting preferential treatment rather than the usual customer support experience.
Seeing how many owners are reporting the same issues with Phrozen was enough to dissuade me. Having to conduct your own repairs on a brand new printer goes beyond 'teething issues' in my book. Numerous and ongoing user reports of dead LCDs and levelling issues probably should have been presented as a stronger indictment than it was here; this was an extraordinarily forgiving review.
Wow, what fair comments to add!
At the time, they did not know about me. I think they learned about me from this video, it was only my second, maybe third printer review.
But i need to say that times have changed somewhat. For a long time now, printers have arrived with many quirks and early adopters like myself had become used to them. But yeah, only a year on and I'm quite a bit less forgiving.
Re. Is printing a threat to GW.
IMO not entirely, not everybody has the space in their house to setup an area for printing, not everybody has the wherewithal to do the research needed for where to locate files, get the best print settings, and educate themselves on the dangers of resin and what safety measure you need to take, plus even if you have people with that then there are definite issues if they have kids or pets who are likely to come into contact with the resin printing area.
Then you have the issue that if you are a competitive player then GW are understandably becoming increasingly opposed to the use of 3D printed models/parts being used in their tournaments.
I got my resin printer (mars 2) November 2021 and have been printing plenty of stuff with it since then but I still find myself buying GW stuff because I still love 40K/30K and want to support them as well as sometimes just wanting to sit and build an infantry set made of plastic and then use my printer to print off accessories to make those core models my own with custom helmets, custom shoulder pads with my own designs on them etc.
For me resin printing is a tool that aids me in my miniature painting/assembly hobby as opposed to completely replacing GW products.
Some day in the future it would be nice if GW experimented with releasing their own STL's because I would absolutely be eager to try those out.
Great feedback and thanks, and I also agree that GW should experiment with STL's or even allow people to submit their own models for sale on a GW storefront before other companies like Cults 3D take over.
agree that GW should clamp down on Ip theft and this is a tool which should enhance our warhammer minis rather than copy them
I don't like the design they use for attaching the build plate.
I do think 8K is that sweet spot, although I think a large screen is the sweet spot there, around 10 inches.
Yeah I agree, though i generally like this design when they work. 10Inch screen! Personally I'd want 16k at that size.
Really good quality video mate! I think your put loads of effort into it and it shows!!!!
thanks so much
Yes, do not buy this! Buy the Mighty 8K instead. I bought the Mini 8K, but the buildplate was too small to fit medium sized models. I exchanged it for the Mighty 8K and I was happy that I did. The difference in print quality between the Mini and the Mighty is too small to notice and I have a much bigger buidplate to work with.
Oddly I’ve spent the last week with the m3 premium which has the same res as the mighty. And I agree with you entirely
@@FauxHammer are you going to review the M3 premium? It looks like a good deal. Maybe I’ve paid too much for the Mighty 8K.
Ordering mine today on Prime day for 479!
Bargain!
@@FauxHammer I got it a few days ago, when I went to checkout there was an additional coupon, so it was 458 with tax, to my door. I have it up and running, suprised on how long it takes to cure a white resin (3sec) even though the resin cures on two other pirnters in 1.5 sec, but the resolution and pixel density sure cant be beat!
@@DimensionMachine woah that’s long, I have phrozens 8k snow grey and that’s like 1.7 seconds. I’ve had softer resins like Sirayatech Tenacious Black take 6 seconds!
@@FauxHammer this is some low cost voxel labs white which I have a long pleaant history with on other printers at 1.5 sec for the Mono x and 2 sec for the Jupiter. I have some "8k" grey arriving tomorrow to test with.
Give your prints a raft with a lip, that'll make it easier to scrape them off the print bed.
that's exactly what i tried to do, but had issue with Lychee, so couldn't
Don't buy this printer because it's amazing and better than GW? That seems a bit click-bait, but you're videos and observations are so good.
It is 99% Click Bait - 1% because of the other reasons i mentioned.
Yes 3D Printing is a threat to GW, that being said… GW isn’t doing itself and favors jacking up the price so high… example The Horus Heresy starter boxset is what? $250 USD you get 40 Space Marines, 10 Terminator, 2 Commanders, a Landraider Spartan Tank and Dreadnaught… 54 models in total. That’s 2000 points worth of models in 40k (I checked) and what I used for my Iron Warrior Army for 40k AND 30k. Mean while you got these army boxes that you can’t even used as an army out of the box because it’s just a HQ choice and 3 Elite choices like the Adepta Sororitas Sanctum Guard that cost the almost the same amount and has half the models and is only what? 700 points in total? If the pricing was more in line with the Horus Hersey starter box then I don’t think as many people would try to find other ways to get models.
True, the strater boxes are always best value. it's the good crack to get you hooked, then you buy the smaller sets after. But it's due to production costs. almost every HH player will buy that starter box. or 40K player will buy those starter sets.
Whereas only a handful will buy a specific faction box. Volume sales on HIPS models reduce a ton of the investment and is, at least in part, why they can sell these larger boxes much cheaper
Printing is only a threat to GW if they treat it that way...pretty simple really. They should be seeing the writing on the wall and selling STLs for their Own Models. Just from an ecological standpoint, they could far better service their fans with far more fiction and media offerings, sell us 3d STLs to print and mod ourselves, make all CORE units super cheap in cheap packaging, and make most of the physical stuff you sell each year are your one off products, NEW Units, and special boxes. If they aren't careful, they are going to miss the point where everyone realizes they can read the novels and play the battles out in a system that's not trying to gouge them just for the rules and basic accessories to play the damn game, every 3 years at minimum.
Games Workshop’s horrendous pricing model deserves to be consigned to history.
harsh
3d printer goes Brrrr.
Also been playing Warhammer on and off since 3rd edition, I am 31 now yes I was a kid playing ha so was my friend he got me into it. I love printing zero... Issues with it, hell look Australia they pretty much print everything and it's because of GWs own idiotic pricing and has nothing to do with import fees, taxes etc... The Outer Circle broke it down and as to how (he is also in the plastic industry knows all about shipping major products, and making them, costs of dies and plastics) I love when people say "3d printing is their" I ask how and why? They go on about not supporting companies and my response is I am supporting many companies and small independent creators. Also I haven't a clue how to use anti asli stuff at all, I tried setting it up before and didn't know how much or little etc...
A lot to unpack, but I like 3D printing becasue I like cool miniatures. I am a GW fan becasue of the design & quality of those minis and I'm a 3D printing fan becasue I can get stuff closer to my own tastes in the scale I like.
i do feel sorry for Aus and their shipping tax.
I think GW should, on top of selling their plastic mini boxes, sell STLs of their minis. Atleast that way people can't pirate their STLs without legal action, and people can print for cheaper, while they still make money.
Personally I’d like to see them curate an approved list of designs from third party creators.
Got the mini 8Ks, same build plate issue. Same thock sound when it moves the plate down against the screen, similar issues with splicers having issues with it.Two plates, I tighten, they wont level. First was horrible, prints always fell off the left side, second... just not great but not horrible. No big prints near the sides though it's looking like.
As questionable as the product and design itself is though... They remove the reviews on their website if they aren't good. That's the part that got me especially concerned. Suffice to say I probably won't ever buy or touch another phrozen printer after this.
That's what all companies do. it's why you should always check UA-cam and all reviews you can before purchase. I'm not the best reviewer out there, none of us are. as VOG has said himself. we can only run limited tests in a limited time. some of us will find things the oher's don't.
I;d speak with Phrozen but it sounds like the screw for the z-rail is loose and just needs tightening.
I recommend a wham bam flex plate. It’s made removing models extremely easy!
never needed one, but i see the appeal
3d printing is a great kick to the ass of GW for them to be competitive and maybe lower the prices, since they became to insane in my country. Also, many kits GW make are outdated and with broken scale. Many creators do the job for GW but you still need the original to blend everything.
Yeah I love enhancing my models with 3D printed Parts.
Nice vid!
And yeah, it does indeed look like a nice printer, but for something so expensive, some kind off protection for the lcd is a must imho. (well, for any resin printer, but especially for premium products)
Honestly, I probably won't get one, but that's not because it doesn't look awesome, because it does. It's mostly because I prefer to stick with 1 brand (unless it sucks, but^^), not 20 different ones. :)
For the thick raft from using Lychee. That does intrigue me. Is this anything you've experienced with your other printers?
Do use Lychee for supports etc, but lately I've done the actual slicing on Chitubox, because of the superiour AA.
Will/does 3D printers hurt GW? Probably a bit, but the 3D printing market is still small. And until we've got some serious ease of use improvements. Most "normal" people won't get a resin printer.
I hear you, the Lychee issue was so random and yeah I slice in chitu now to avoid this after supporting in Lyche. not seen any AA issues in Lychee though TBH. I;m the only person who has this slicing issue, using latest lychee and firsmwate, I even spoke to Luke at @geekgamingscenics with the same setup and he didn;t have the issue. I can slice the exact same stl in Lychee and Chitu and I get this thick raft issue in Lychee every time. and early on, it was encroaching into my models
@@FauxHammer So annoying :'(
Regarding AA & Chitubox, what I meant was that Chitubox does the AA/Blur better then Lychee, or well, it feels that way to me? :)
I'll stick to elegoo, thanks mate
Yeah do it if you wnat. Elegoo are a great brand too in their own right. Dunnoo if you saw my Halo minis I printed on the Mars 3 pro, but they are awesome!
Link to minis instagram.com/p/Cg4_oYMtt-Y/?
This is not a printer for first time buyers, nor is it a printer for incompetents. If you're not mechanically inclined, you're better off with something from FormLabs, but be prepared to pay more or have a support contract. Lack of skills can be compensated for with money.
If it's at this price range I think these kind of problems are not allowed to even get through Quality checks.
well i dunno, it was a very innovative product. I understand the premium and despite a few issues, problems can and do happen with electronics. despite my issues Phrozen were ace and fixed it well for me.
@@FauxHammer I think its lack of a decent quality check since you had issues from the start
Granted I haven't watched to the end yet, but your bottom layer exposure time is too long. 35 seconds is overbaking it and making it difficult to get the raft off. Try between 15 and 20 seconds. Also your light-off delays are almost half what they should be. I don't think 6 seconds even comes close to covering the lift time. Ask Phrozen about their Light-Off delay calculator.
Did you see the bit where I explained that I used these settings to compensate for the faulty build plate?
@@FauxHammer yes, why don't you get a replacement or just sand it flat? Find a granite worktop, ensure that it's flat, then tape sand paper down. Most of us who got printers prior to the 8k had to do this because the surface wasn't etched.
@@mattperson7293 Becasue the issue was due to a threaded screw from the factory 01:37 - I did get a replacement.
you should have been upfront and cut in vin diesel to say "clickbait" lmao, would have at least been funny
Do you have a clip of him saying that I could use?
@@FauxHammer yes i do
(i dont that was click bait)
@@tatooine_dream could you post a link?
@@tatooine_dream eh?
hot water helps remove from the build plate without the hammer. most times.
In the coming days, You’re about to see that I learned this and do very similar to that in my 8kS review.
This would be a good VS video against the mono 2! The only thing i fault with the mono2 is the build plate should have been 10in! Ive got the mono 4k i bought that first 3 weeks later the mono 2 the mono 4k build plate is way to small anything that small of a build plate i would honestly say dont buy it! Youll only get annyed and couple weeks later go for a bigger one! Think anyone starting out should just bite the bullet and buy a 10in 8k! I wish i did as now need it! Im an armour modeller the ones I've got are fine for small parts but anything 1.35 sized for conversion kits i need the 10 in!
i found this review as constructive, honest and helpful. Tip hat, mate.
thanks so kindly
Games Workshop needs to stop be a dinosaur and adapt. They need to sell 3D printable files, protect their IP that way. Become the leader in 3D printable files. Otherwise they will die and our game will be gone. Their fault not ours that they refused to adapt.
I agree
You can feel go ahead and take a breath every once and again. We won't mind. j/k
lol, i do breathe, but most are cut out to save time,
@@FauxHammer I was just teasing, the vid is highly appreciated and well done. You are very helpful.
Very soon we gonna see 14k resolution LCD 10 inch screens and the results will be insane. alrdy some are out.
DLP screens are dead
They are already out, I've reviewed some, another review is out on Tuesday.
I also have a 16k on the way too ;)
3D printing simply is too much of a “hobby” to really catch on to threaten GW’s bottom line. I have wonderful help from my brother a lot of the time to do 3D miniatures, and it is still a right pain in the butt atop maintaining the space, smell, and sheer patience to print minis. I can see why people prefer to drop $500 on an army they paint up over weeks, picking up new units from thier FLGS piecemeal versus dropping $300 on a new printer, resin, the time to set it all up, consumables like gloves and pry tools, and even then have to remove supports and cure.
GW meanwhile has A the convienice of you pick up a box of space marines, it will not stink, no mess, and has clear instructions on how to assemble easily, with real considerations for how you build your models and get attached to them.
GW kits have problems (good god fine cast) and as they control the IP and have serious value add (time, mess, space, upfront cost) to thier kits they can keep trucking indefinitely, especially compared to thier real competition for MTG and other table top games for hobby time.
Yeah totally, and there's the build experience you get too. I always liken this to Airfix kts. You can easily buy a model of a plane, but the experience of building it yourself is a huge element. Sure you an print models snap them off the supports and paint them in many cases. and if that's your main drive, painting and playing. cool 3D printing saves you a lot of time. But you loose so much worth in the translation of mediums.
If you dont soak your prints in ISO, they are near impossible to remove from the build plate.
This is 3d printing beginner mistake 101.
Gods i should have watched this before pulling the trigger on the d2 lol
How so? Did you watch our D2 video? What does this do that makes you prefer it over the D2
@@FauxHammer its mintures that i am mainly making, the sholderpads looked almost perfect, a bit worried (probably buyers remorse) that the d2 will not make a comparable painting friendly minis even with 16aa blur2
@@4_am So to answer this directly, it will not be as smooth on the D2 as it is on the Mini8k, but the difference is argualbly impercieveble.
Are you printing minis to paint and display? or to aint and play with? If the latter, you chose right with the D2. The D2 technology creates sharper prints with more accurate details no matter what resin you use. some resins will be smoother by nature but the results will always be sharper on the DLP printers.
The 8k is detailed and smooth, but so far - only with the 8k resin and that resin is too brittle for game pieces. youc an use softer resins but you loose the detail you get from this 8k printer. Making the 8k resolution somewhat pointless.
@@Ross.Graham kk thank you Ross. I am an ultra owner just now. Prints are fab, but i am an old skoo dry brusher 😀
@@4_am Honestly, the only notible upgrade from the Ultra to the D2 is the bigger print area. The print detail is impercieveably different between them and they take a but longer as the projector uses less power to make it more economical. but you are taking 1.6 seconds on my ultra to 1.8 seconds on this. Though sometimes use 2.2 for very lightly supported models.
i am having the SAME PROBLAM WITH THIS PRINTER
Glad I’m not alone
My problem with buying these printers you could cost peoples jobs
Unfortunately I agree, but is history not filled with examples of the negative impacts of progress?
@@FauxHammer how would you feel if someone was copying your product to me it wrong and resin is going to be a dying art even horsy’s heresy is going plastic
@@spacewolfdazzel4279 I would beel awful, I;d feel robbed. it would be both crushing and devastating. I;m not sure why you are belabouring the point. As I said, i agree with you.
I'm not sure why you say resin is a Dying art, I infer that you view of the hobbyphere is primarily Games Workshop.But there is a whole world out there far beyond what Games Workshop produce. I'm a huge fan of Games Workshop, I'm supported by games Workshop for the blog and it's a joy/dream come true to support them and their miniatures are still unrivalled. Each release is truly an exciting event.
I've transitioned beyond covering GW knock-off's. Even One Page Rules, one of my faves are cutting it close with their "not Sisters of Battle" and "not Skaven" models. so much that I'm considering not covering them much longer. because their non-gw inspired models are frequently far better. However , to your point. GW are still producing new rein bits for heresy so no, it's not a dying art.
I compare this often to the music and film industry which became digitised in the last 2 decades. it started with piracy and resulted an a huge industry change where we now have Spotify and Netflix.
The World is changing, - this will force change for a lot of companies. There will be turmoil throughout and that;s awful. but out the back end I hope that this is beneficial to hobbyists in general, be thatfrom GW - 3D printing or otherwise. I agree that copying is wrong and it does hurt people. But at the same time, there's nothing new under the sun. Inspired works are what they are.
"So why am I telling you not to buy it?"
For clicks mate, you say it for the clicks.
Oh God! Have I used clickbait on UA-cam! We should tell someone! This behaviour surely needs to be reported!
Thanks for your comment. No sure if banter sarcasm or an actual dig, but engagement helps boost the channels reach. So cheers!
@@FauxHammer Mostly banter! was researching what resin printer to get and came across your video. Was really rather impressed with the quality of the video. it was just that the content I was looking for wasnt there. from memory you talked about individual problems with your machine, about what software to use and then a rant about the resin used. All very interesting, but very little argumention towards the "DO NOT BUY THIS MACHINE ON YOUR LIFE" vibe you built through thumbnail and tone in the beginning. Thus my first comment. But I respect the hussle, good luck with the channel :)
@@marcusfranzen5814 lol, thanks for the clarification. The thumbnail is not totally in jest, The printer is capable of fantastic results, however, there were a lot of issues I had with it. The stuff I went through. So the resin not being the best for my use case, is an argument against it, the tech issues, component failure, against it. Bed levelling, against it. lack of screen protector. There are many reasons not to buy it, especially now when we have the Uniformation GKTwo within the same price range.
It;s a great printer, but it's also a PITA and since this review I never used it again.
If there is something specific you wanted to know, feel free to ask. Unlike other Tubers, I'm quite responsive in the comments and try to respond to everyone.
never heard of this crazy amount of problems before on this product LOL :D and wouldnt it be easier to let a friend cnc cut a new even plate? :D i love the turnout of the video at the end haha i exactly know what you mean! Its like playing skyrim for the first time and just love it. then play it few years later and mod and cheat the hell out of it, i lost the fun on it lol :D
yeah that's a solid analogy actually.
Is this negging?
I suppose so yeah. hey I got the printer late and If I did a video like everyone else saying how great it was, how is that A, any use to anyone and B gonna get viewed?