I was a helicopter pilot for 8 years, and while I was watching the movie I was struck by how realistic the movements of the ornithopters were. They were immediately familiar to me. Makes sense that they filmed actual helicopters doing the maneuvers and then digitally replaced them.
As a person who builds airplanes, I waited Vilneuve version of ornithopters. Because in book they were described as something with a huge thin wings, like a gragonfly has. And. In film ornithopters were like dragonflies, but the construction of its was totaly legitimate. Its almost a helicopter. They even changes the angles of attack and move different ways depend on changing directions. Wow.
But should they? Forgive my simplicity here. Helicopters basically hang from the rotor at a single point, whereas ornithopters lean on wings on both sides. Wouldn't this change the dynamics drastically? Though, this difference is unlikely to be visible or even known to... anyone?)
@@redrickschuhart4065 Do you accept (House Atreides accepts! sorry--) how ornithopter would glide on such tiny wings when they are fixed? When Paul escapes the storm, that is.
Same here, I was a career USAF rotor head, with quite a bit of desert flying experience and it doesn't surprise me at all to discover they used actual rotorcraft to create the take-off and landing sand and dust effects (although I did wonder why no one was wearing eye-pro in the future, you definitely needed some Wiley-X's or Oakley's to protect your eyes in that kind of rotor-wash....)
I crafted the two shots at 3:03 & 3:05 and I have to say that the sand screen workflow was a welcome challenge over the usual blue screen/green screen. Special thanks to the Rotoscope department for helping out where keying was impossible. Everyone in the VFX teams knocked it out of the park! Be proud. Great analysis Thomas, thank you for spreading the magic of our art.
I worked at Dune as a compositor I wasn't there at the beginning but I joined in the end of it where as I was asked to revisit some of the pre-approved shots. All I'm gonna say is Denis Villeneuve is the first Director who gave notes I want clamped values like in real life recordings. That approach all by itself made me believe in this movie more than any other I worked at.
@@DylanDalal in real world lenses and cameras catch exaggerated values (over 1.00) in RGB. Where as in comp we clamp them to 1 to control colour better. In a perfect world that’s not how it suppose to be done but for the sake of VFX we are obligated to do that.
I like how you mentioned that the CGI was used to EXTEND reality, not create reality. It reminds me of motivated lighting...not creating light from zero, but adding to what's already there. I guess we could call it 'motivated CGI'... and I love that Villeneuve took this approach.
kinda like the explosions in Mad Max Fury Road, really. Miller did use real explosions, but then used CG to make them bigger, which gives a very different effect than more recent Michael Bay films
I have to say: Villeneuves movies feel like a masterclass in creating atmosphere through worldbuilding. Even in a movie like Prisoners, you just can´t escape the dread he wants you to feel.
@@dubudubudan some people can’t read between the lines lol your comment describes how I felt exactly about that movie. Check out Dennis’s 2010 movie Incendies. Another masterpiece that isn’t sci fi.
One of the reviews of this movie was someone saying that seeing Dune in theatres felt like seeing Star Wars in theatres for the first time. I asked my dad, who saw Star Wars in theatres, and he said he thinks it's even better than Star Wars in the theatres. I gave him my copy of the book. He's hooked.
Dune is better than Star Wars in every way you can think of, but at 15 years old walking into the theater with no idea what I was about to see, Star Wars blew the lid right off the building.
This is a great analogy, comparing watching Dune in theatre to watching Star Wars first time back in the days. I feel fortunate that I have experienced both like your Dad did. It is a great feeling that has been lost and never found until now.
It was a total different experience. Star Wars never looked real, it was always the fairy tale and the original effects were "cheap". I watched TV Battlestar Galactica before i watched Star Wars and always thought their effects were so much better than the death star.
And i went to the Cinema in 1984 twice to see Dune (second time in an attempt to understand the story). I think it was as epic in contrast to the just release Muppet Show (aka Star Wars 3) than Dune is now compared to the Marvel universe.
Everything looked crisp and verisimilar, EXCEPT the balloons; while I understand these are dirigibles employed by a space-faring empire, they inflate too perfectly like there’s no wind as the bladder ejects and inflates
After i watched the movie i hear someone talk about the vfx of Dune and it was just at that moment that i realized that the movie i just saw is a movie and had CGI
The absolute best example of digital cameras being used realistically vs breaking physics is to watch Pacific Rim and Pacific Rim 2 back to back. The first one, directed by Guillermo Del Toro, has very grounded cameras to give the jaegers a sense of scale. They feel massive because the camera stays on the ground where a human would be and looks up at them as they fight the kaiju. You get a very realistic feel for how massive they are. The second film, directed by Steven DeKnight, has those physics defying cameras that swoop around and do moves a real camera could never do. The jaegers and kaiju in the first film feel a lot bigger and heavy and massive. In the second film, it doesn't matter. You could be watching toys on a miniature model city. It takes away all of their scale and size.
At the risk of sounding like a huge Del Toro fan or Pacific Rim fan, there's another thing to mention. Del Toro does slows down the movement of the giant robots and aliens. A tiny mouse scampering across the floor looks like it's moving fast and an elephant looks slow and lumbering. The mouse and elephant cover the same distance in the same amount of time. The mouse has to do it with 50 steps and the elephant in just one. Our brains see this as fast and slow when they're technically travelling at the same speed. So a giant robot would look very slow to us even though when it throws a punch, its fist is traversing 100s of feet in just a second or two. Del Toro realized this and slowed down the action a lot which worked alongside the realistic cameras to make the jaegers and kaiju feel enormous. The second film didn't care. I didn't really like either films. There was a lot of other stuff wrong with both of them. But one thing Del Toro got right is knowing how to make them feel massive.
@@29drmark lol I was in my late teens when it was popular on TV so I never paid it much attention, being a children's show. But I do remember how it just looked like people in robot costumes stomping around cardboard shaped like buildings.
@@CTBell-uy7ri It's an obvious effect to anyone that even has a cursory interest in cinematography. The fact that so many films get it wrong is just bizarre. Dune and Pacific Rim get it right and just about every director of a Marvel Studios film gets it so wrong. It's strange.
Dune for me was the only movie I have every watched that made me think "This is fucking epic" And I really am not exaggerating. That scene specifically when the ship emerges from the water I remember just being in awe. And there were plenty of moments like that while watching. Dune has got to be the first movie in 10 years or more where I walked out the cinema planning my return to the same film.
I saw it in theaters 3 times because I kept taking my friends/family to go see it. Incredible each time. Loved the book series and they did such an amazing job with the sounds and visuals.
When the Worm came out and lurked over Paul and Jessica just off the rocks I teared up. Everything looked so good, brought one of my favourite books to life
For me it's the first movie that compared to the Lord of the Rings trilogy in that way since they came out. So definitely check those out if that epic atmosphere is your thing. I saw Dune twice in the theaters and it's been years since I've paid to do that
Exactly the same thoughs. This is the film of the decade for me. Wanted to watch it in cinema again but was taken off from screen a week later after I saw it the first time. Ended up watching it on TV.
Agree! This movie is the perfect example of a production that uses CGI as a tool to enhance reality to achieve fantasy, instead of completely ignoring the foundations to get to it. so even though the movie has alien technology, I believed every second of it because everything just feels right.
2:54 I absolutely love the quiet descent of the Sarduakar soldiers invading the chamber with gravity dampers. Notice when each of them is about 15 feet from the floor, they touch some control with their left hand in the middle front of their suit. It's just so awesome. And the quiet/secret invasion of the Sarduakar soldiers is pivotal in the story. I'm going to watch it again.
Also the fact that you can't see the bene Gesserit spaceship landing, from the light it emits, is not a sacrifice, more like a visual storytelling device that enhances the mystery and ominousness that surrounds the sisterhood from Paul's and the audience's perspective at the time.
And the payoff scene of the sisters walking from the ships through the windy night is all the better for it, fueled by all the suspense created by the previous shot. (Though the music in that scene is a large part of why it's so great)
Honestly I loved that shot, gives the already mysterious sisterhood a real veil of unknown to it. Such an enormous and powerful seeming craft, yet hidden from Paul and our full inspection. It provides such a powerful emotional response, I was constantly awe-struck and mystified by the storytelling, and it made the film something most films don't manage to be - an experience. I didn't leave the film talking about how good the film was, I was so immersed and involved in the characters and world that I just remembered how absolutely tiny the film made me feel. It takes something really special to give me the same feeling I get when I look at a mountain range; that's what Dune did for me. Just incredible
Reminds me of a quote from college: “the mark of a good artist is knowing what to do. The mark of a master artist is knowing when to pull back and do less.” I feel like the way they do the virtual cameras fits this.
I worked on Black Widow on the sequences you referenced - you are absolutely right in saying that everything is possible. In BW they just wanted it to look like this. It always comes down to what the client/director/studio wants really. But there is a reason why most of my colleagues and I would prefer working on movies like Dune :)
Would you say there’s an added time pressure on say a marvel movie compared to Dune or is it just that Disney and marvel create unrealistic deadlines for the amount of work you need to do? I remember seeing something about how a small group of the VFX artists had a year to work on the Rachel sequence in Blade Runner 2049 and thats like a two minute sequence.
"It always comes down to what the client/director/studio wants really." Why do they want to ignore physically plausible lighting when it would be absolutely trivial and relatively cost effective to do it right? Are they stupid? Let me rephrase that question: Why are they so stupid? Correct me If I am wrong but they do extensive pre-visualisations and planning, why not use some additional lights while shooting on green-screen? Especially in a scene with strong environment lights like an explosion behind the character. It would make integration of CGI into the live-action plate so much better. I don't get it.
@@aronseptianto8142 My guess is they wanted to see the actor's phase clearly all the way through. In the more realistic shots from Dune, you can't see Josh Brolin's face half the time. Sets the mood way better, but takes away from your super expensive star player's on-screen time.
As a compositor in the VFX industry for over 10 years now, what I am saying is that they way Denis uses VFX IS objectively better than the others you compared to. I'm not afraid to step on toes for the hard truth.
Besides covering my butt from Marvel fans, the larger point I wanted to emphasize was that I don't think "realism" is inherently better than a stylized approach, as long as each is serving the goals of the story. But I totally agree, a lot of the stuff that's out there isn't great.
@M. A Realistic in the sense that, while watching the movie i could find myself saying "this could actually happen", like i felt while watching Dune. It is not realistic in a scientific sense but more like a feeling
I wonder if Marvel would be better off leaning further into the cartoonishness of the effects rather than attempting to go for much realism. Since they are based on comics and cartoons, maybe their house style could push the envelope further on that front rather than existing in a kind of half space between the two.
Dune's VFX were the best I have ever seen in a movie, hands down. It also blows me away that the budget is almost half of movies that have comparable but not superior vfx. What a fantastic job. They've rekindled my faith in modern moviemaking
Dune is the rare film where digital effects are almost completely convincing. I can't say that about most movies. There's always something off about things.
@@BbGun-lw5vi wow. That’s impressive hand waiving. Or a joke, and I don’t get it. Please tell me why Paul sees a vision of his Chris knife , it’s mounted in a frame like it’s on sale for auction at Christie’s.
I'm going to say it, Dune was superior. That scene when they arrive on planet with the wind blowing people's clothes was great. I was in awe when I first saw it. Everyone else would have shot the scene with no wind. I love how everything in Dune is gritty, dirty, rusty, wet, etc.
Dune has extensive inner dialogue with all the characters which isn't something that can always be verbally expressed. I like to think the camera work staying with the characters is a way to ground that scene/emotion to the character.
More than the effects, this is what I most appreciated about the film. So many characters get killed off, or are otherwise squeezed into very little screen time, and the art of developing each and every one of them through to their resolution as real characters, with deaths, or motivations that matter was perfect. The acting, framing, editing of the characters of Leto, Mapes, Duncan, Yueh, Jamis, hell, the Harkonnen crew on the thopter, all felt fully fleshed out as humans important to the storydespite tiny amounts of screen time each.
In a Befores & Afters-article, the VFX Supervisor mentions that an added benefit of the sandscreens in post production was that they turned blue when the colors were inverted. So in some cases they could actually pull a bluescreen key from the sandscreens using this process.
Which as a vfx artist still doesn't seem like helping a lot to me. If you need a key of any of the dust-colored elements in the film, even faces, the problem is not that the screen is not blue, but that things are similar in colour to your screen. Which ends in big amounts of roto, which is hard, expensive and time consuming.
@@arghail0 Let's not pretend as if roto sweatshops in third world countries aren't a thing. Always delightful to watch client supes throwing artists under the bus just to keep the directors pleased.
@@anurandev7337 Yeah, it's kind of an open industry secret that the best key tool is not any screen color or algorithm - it's a massive workforce outside Hollywood doing hand rotoscoping.
@@steffenbach3580 indeed. And I’ve sat beside some. Watching them in horror doing precise hair roto with motion blur and defocus taken into account. All of them overworked and underpaid, and yelled at when asking for a respectful work condition.
I've been a fan of the Dune novels for over 20 years. I was excited and nervous about this adaptation. As a long time fan it makes me so happy to hear people praising this film, and for this film to bring in so many new Dune fans. With so many other disappointments from Hollywood in the last few decades, the success and quality of this movie was definitely a welcome change.
Somehow dune has flown under my radar and I didn’t even know that the book existed prior to watching the movie, but now I’m a hardcore fan already and almost swallowed the first book. I’m so happy I discovered it and I’m so happy they did such a great job!
I began reading the novels recently after I saw the movie a month and a half ago. It's funny, where I live there's now a waiting line of a few HUNDRED for the first Dune novel at the city library. The film definitely ignited some huge new interest in the books.
Interestingly enough, it seems that if you take a classic that is considered to be incredible literature on its own and just re-tell the story in film format with high fidelity to the original setting, it is highly appealing to the viewers. The producers of Lord of the Rings recognized this and made what is to this day one of the best fantasy-action film series ever created. I suspect Dune is on a similar trajectory for Sci-Fi.
I saw this film a few weeks ago and immediately picked up the books. I've just finished Children of Dune and have the rest of Frank Herbert's books coming tomorrow.
@rrar rarr to be fair, the books do skip quite a bit on some details that the movies cover better. Seeing the technology, vehicles, buildings, etc. in the movies has really helped me to better visualize the novels.
This is one of the best films I've ever seen in 40 years. Everything about it - casting, dialogue, acting, story arc, cinematography, sound & music - EVERYTHING was fantastic.
The writing in this movie is super poor imho. So are consequentially the characters and story. The casting and acting was good, but there are hundreds if not thousands of movies with better perforances. The score, here's the controversy, I thought it wasn't good. The sound, the visual effects and even the production design were great. The cinematography looked cool but lacked of depth, imo again.
@@r.c.c.10 your realize that dune isn't just a movie made recently right? its a very old book and a film adaptation from the 80s... the story is great but i guess thats subjective
The visual artifacts on the Ornithopter's wings, the way they turn from blur to visible for a split second in different positions, replicates the way our brain processes things that actually move very fast in a repetitive pattern... it looked so good.
Same! I had no expections about it, as I didn't know much about the story before watching it, but man, it sucked me right in. Amazing work by Denis and the actors!
The best visual effects should feel "invisible." They should serve the story, not replace it. The Mission Impossible series is also a good example of this, they do most stunts & effects in-camera, even when they could easily do them with green screen.
And when they use CGI (which they certainly do... example ofc being the masks) they do a good job of trying to make it appear as realistic as possible.
I gotta disagree- yes good VFX plays an invisible role in most if not all big-budget movies, even films that aren't action-oriented. But at the end of the day, VFX has entered a field in the last decade where it 'wants' to be seen, where movies have created their own styles of VFX that people also enjoy seeing, as if it's become its own medium. This is why I feel like Thomas approached this video very well by establishing that Dune's approach to VFX isn't inherently better than other movies like Endgame, Endgame's VFX is still incredibly executed. It's just that Denis is pursuing hyperrealism because that's his style and that's what he feels is right for Dune, Marvel does not have to do that because they're not doing hyperrealism, they're doing graphic novel-esque movies with more character 'screencaps' and more campy/lighthearted writing/directing. It's not a flaw, they're all creative choices.
There's definitely a line, though, and Cruise crossed that line around the Burj Khalifa scene. In camera stunts are fine until they actively endanger any of the cast. Granted, Cruise was the one that pushed for endangering his own life, but no one should've let him.
one of the things that made this movie feel more real as well was how the music actually reacted to things happening in the movie. one example i can think of is at some point they fly over the big city that has about 3 tall buildings that they fly over very closely. and you can actually hear a "whoosh" effect in the music at precisely those times.
Absolutely! I had a feeling, that the soundtrack, environment sounds and the visuals are kinda woven together. Another scene is the one with ships on Caladan emerging from water with this horn sound - it just could be part of the soundtrack
The sound designer / fx editor would be adding those whooshes and horns - all environmental, vehicle, technology and creature sounds. Some of which are carefully tuned and balanced by the editor and the mixer for a desirable experience for the audience. I thought they did an excellent job!
@@mochachaiguy Except they were not horn, and some cases were if only kind of an emulation. Zimmer explains it better: ua-cam.com/video/93A1ryc-WW0/v-deo.html
When I watched Dune for the first time, I couldn't articulate the technical aspect of the movie as well as you have, however, I immediately thought about how natural and beautiful everything looked. Dune is a groundbreaking masterpiece of our time.
I loved the books and read them 30+ years ago. I’ve re-read them half a dozen times. This interpretation of Dune was fantastic. It’s the only book to film adaptation that hasn’t disappointed. Yes you can’t squeeze everything into the films. But what he’s done is as close as possible. Just a phenomenal effort. My favourite film since Thin Red Line.
@@robosklegs Yes! That's another really good one. Again, I read that back in the mid-nineties when everyone was talking about it saying how dark and stylistic it was. I never thought anyone could adapt that book to a film successfully. But they did. It was excellent. Another one I like was ‘Atonement’. That was a fairly good adaptation. But there are many more misses than hits when it comes to book to film adaptations. I think the no.1 criticsm on IMBd reviews is ‘not as good as the book’. I've read that comment a thousand times. I think doing it successfully takes real skill and intelligence. Arguably more than an original script.
@@thomasweir2834 I have not yet read the books. I have however seen the original (1984?) film, played the Game from 1992 and seen the miniseries from 2000ish. What did you think of the miniseries if you have seen it?
Haha, that cutting back and forth between Oscar Isaac's roles of Poe and Leto was clever. Nice work on the whole video, there's so much to admire about Dune and the process of creating it.
those cuts made me realise I spent Dune wishing I could fly an ornithopter but the latest star wars movies didn't have that old magic of wishing I could fly an x-wing.
I remember seeing this in IMAX and the scene that absolutely blew me away was the Bene Gesserit ship. I absolutely love how they enshrouded it in fog and that one wide shot of them walking out of the ship. It made the ship feel so grand and imposing even though we couldn’t see the entire thing-and tbh, _because_ we couldn’t see the entire thing. It felt mysterious and eerie and unsettling, just like the Bene Gesserits themselves. It set the tone for the scene and it was visually stunning.
the first scene where with the ornithopters, when they fly into the city from the spaceport, every position of the camera, and movement through the digital space was from a possible vantage point of the thopter, which helped us get immersed with the perspective of the characters flying through.
I honestly was more astounded by the visuals in dune than in other blockbusters. The spaceships and sand worm had a sense of scale to them that I don’t get from other movies.
All that really means is that they nailed it with this film. This was always considered an impossible story to put on film, because of the high density of narrative information contained in the novel.
Denis seems to have a real love and feel for old school sci-fi imagery. I remember recognizing it in Bladerunner, there were several very understated but fantastical scenes that looked straight off the cover of some older scifi books or magazines I'd read as a kid. I knew he'd do Dune right based purely on that and I look forward to anything scifi related he puts out.
I went in to the movie with very low expectations. Not because I doubted Villeneuve, but I couldn't imagine it doing Herbert's Dune justice. My expectations were completely blown away. For once, in what feels like an eternity, the source book was done actual justice. Villeneuve & Co's whole approach was to determined and poised to do it justice from the outset, and it definitely helps that Brian Herbert was included as EP. I am so so pleased to see how well the movie did to stick to its roots - the book & Frank Herbert's universe - that it almost makes me emotional. Cinema has felt like trash for the last decade, but this is a stellar deviation from that trend. Can't wait for Dune 2.
The other great thing about Denis is that he likes shooting with scale models, which always look more realistic than CGI. I think the city of Arakeen was a miniature, or at least parts of it, and some of the ships may have been models. Denis shoots as much as he can in-camera so that there's almost always something real in a vfx-heavy shot.
My understanding is that no miniatures were used for Dune. They were used extensively for BR2049, but everything you see in Dune is digital. DNEG made a video about the process.
This was something I noticed while watching and afterwards my dad and sister both asked “how was that so immersive” and I was explained to them basically this video and how Denis Villenueve grounds every shot as if it were actually being filmed. I just absolutely adore this film it’s in there with my top 3 best cgi used in films the others being Blade Runner 2049 and Rogue One which also has cinematography by Greig Fraser
Same I love when they do that, I don't mind some "cool" shots with digital cameras but grounded shots are so much better. Most of the time digital ones look like videogame cutscenes, I will never forget black panther climax looking straight up from a 2013 videogame
Dune is the first movie I’ve seen at the cinema that I thought was beautiful, in part due to how it felt so real, as you say grounded in reality. It enhanced its beauty by making it feel like it could be our world, we could be there.
You are clearly a well informed person who truly understands the cinema process. Your video is constructed like a well thought out essay. Well done and keep up the good work.
Denis is the greatest director of the last 15 years in my opinion. I heard an interview with him wherein he explains that he always wants to answer the question "why does this shot matter?". Each shot has a connection to the character. Even establishing shots! I really enjoyed the technical analysis and look forward to viewing more of your material!
You are in for a real treat. There is SO MUCH in the book that just won't fit in a film. Dune is one of the most imaginative and expansive works of world-building of any fiction genre.
Fuck yeah dude! Dune reignited my passion for reading a few years ago and I've been pretty consistently tearing through fiction since then, it's just too bad I havent found anything that has sucked me in like Dune did (LotR is next on my list though).
What I don't get is how he was able to do all this in just $165M. That's almost the budget of Shang-Chi. And it is 20% less than the budget of Black Widow! Shang-Chi had worse-than-mediocre lighting and VFX to the point where I could even make out the greenscreen shots which is extremely anti-immersive I must say. Denis and his team managed to make Dune such an immersive experience WHILE PAYING FOR ALL THE STARS with just the budget of your average run-of-the-mill Marvel film.
As Tom said, Dune was subject to a lot of care, passion and creativity. Which is something you don't usually get with formulated marvel movies that are just being churned out for profit.
Homie, 165m is a TON of money. You’re forgetting that marvel cranks out movies every year and really rush the vfx workers. Dune had multiple years to perfect it visuals
Most of the costs of Marvel movies comes from two places. They have very strict scheduling, every movie has to make their release date no matter what which can mean the VFX get rushed especially when the VFX team is overworked and underpaid. Second, everything is compartmentalized so that each movie looks the same. So the actual directors aren’t always part of pre production or post production or even directing the action scenes. Every Marvel movies gets extensive reshoots to make it conform to the Marvel style and fit into the overall narrative for every other movie. Sometimes that means shooting most of the movie again like what’s happening now with Doctor Strange. TLDR. They’re expensive because they're micromanaged and look like crap because they're often rushed and have to conform to the Marvel style.
That shot of the bene gesserit getting off their spacecraft (don't know if i spelled that right) honestly gave me such an uneasy feeling seeing it the first time. It's hard to say why exactly. The soundtrack, the peace of night being broken by their arrival. It was so sinister.
Do a video on “Why are DUNE’s costumes like that?” And then do “Why is DUNE’s acting like that” you could talk about every thing about this film and I would be happy because I loved everything about this movie
Honestly, my only complaint is in things that didn't make it from the book. I understand that cuts needed to be made for the sake of telling a story via movie, but man, an extended cut would be awesome
Same. When he said: "but sand colored screens were still close enough and uniform enough that they could get the job done" I just though 'green and blue screens are never uniform enough to key anyway, so why not use beige instead indeed, since it would need rotoscoping either way.'
Well, even with blue/greenscreen there is a lot of rotoscoping involved. Just think of reflections and especially motion blur. And rotoscoping tools are improving. Still those are the unsung heroes of VFX!
@@MaxxMcGeePrivate Have you heard of Magic Mask in AE, or other similar technologies? It makes rotoscoping many many times easier, quicker, and more accurate. Any remain flaws can be adjusted by hand, if any.
@@Leukick its good for quick youtube videos, but its nowhere near where it need to be for actual production. Plus, we dont use AE for compositing in production anyhow.
Camera movement is an underrated point, Villeneuve blessed us with the gift of stillness, I just can’t overstate how much I despise the dizzying camera movement some directors use ALL THE TIME just because they can
This is one of the best-made breakdowns of cinematic style I have ever seen. This is such an incredibly well-put-together video essay. I'm really impressed! I found both Dune and your video itself very inspiring artistically.
This movie felt enthralling, I couldn't look away from the screen. The amount of work and detail put into this movie felt like someone actually cared and wasn't another big studios decision. You can tell Denis Villeneuve's passion for this movie and book through the movie itself. Great analysis on the movie I also have to add that Hans Zimmer also did an amazing job at brining this movie to life.
Zimmer is good in most films, but I imagine giving someone like him- who loves to write to the scene -the kind of visuals that Dune has to offer in such beautiful vividness was very inspiring for the score he wrote. You can tell when his score is especially inspired in films like Interstellar and Pirates of the Caribbean.
@@Endemoniada I think you misunderstood why he uses the Marvel/DC examples. He repeatedly said that it's not a good v. bad comparison, but showing the difference between the approaches. Yes, there could have been other examples but I think it makes sense to take some that are not just well-known but have been produced at about the same time as Dune. I agree that impossible camera and the like make complete sense in a superhero setting where physics are bent on a regular basis. It's not really to my personal liking but I'm not a big fan of superhero movies either way. Still I can see why you'd choose that approach as a director and I do think that Thomas made the same point in his video. It's just that there has been so much impossible camera movement etc. that Villeneuve's approach DOES seem fresh. But fresh doesn't necessarily mean better.
There’s a saying in VFX: nothing looks more real than real. When you work on a Marvel movie, more often than not, everything is green screen with little to no practical. This creates several problems but the two biggest are: the lighting can change from shot to shot within the same scene which makes difficult for VFX maintain plate continuity and thus stay grounded in reality. The second is there’s no practical reference to match against. This leaves a huge window for interpretation on how things should look. You’d be surprised how often people who know nothing about cinematography or VFX make the final decision on how things should look. We’re talking all the way up to the studio heads will have a say….after all it’s their money. That’s like a plastic surgeon telling an seasoned automotive body shop how to repair a damaged car. It’s all about planning and more often than not the planning for shots isn’t grounded in reality from both a lighting and lens choice. That and everyone having their say on how something should look creates a distorted final product under the limitations of time and money.
I think one more point on that is his use of sets. Many movies would use green/blue screen for more impractical sets and locations, but Denis often has them built. While he justifies this for the actor's play, I think it also confuses the audience by blurring the line between practical and vfx in general, in this "extending of reality" principle you discussed.
What I admire the most is how expensive he makes Dune looks while coming up with a lower budget than expected. The rumors run that the movie costs between 130 million to 150 million dollars. Compare that to the usual Marvel movie costing 200 millions yet you don't see the money on screen. Present day directors rely heavily on CGI post production to correct and alter the visuals and many don't care anymore about doing actual lighting work, sets and all stuff practical. The anecdote that someone in the industry pointed to show that attitude was a director shooting a scene, then they noticed a fan onset that shouldn't be there. The director just shrugged and said they would erase it post-production. The crew guy was so annoyed, he walked to the fan, carried it out of the set by himself and told the director something along this line: "Now, you can thank me. I saved you 10,000 dollars."
This was definitely one of the most engrossing and immersive film experiences I’ve ever had (equal to LOTR). It was over and I was ready to watch another 3 hours of it. So amazing. Learning more about how they made it gives me so much more respect and I can’t wait for a director’s extended dvd cut. One comment I had right after we saw the film was how…blurry it looked! But that was SO awesome! Everything (on Arakis at least) looked as if we were seeing it through sand or dust and on a desert planet that’s extremely realistic and I loved the visual aspect of that so much!
I remember leaving the theater feeling like I had sand in my boots. Hands down the most immersed I've ever felt in a fictional world. The thing that impressed me the most was the sand moving, changing shape and slowly caving before the worm immerged from it, because of the vibration underneath. I remember thinking YES! OF COURSE! That makes sense! So many little things that make this feel tangible and make you really feel the scale of everything that happens.
Good analysis. But it's not just the lighting. Something that they also did that helps with the blending of VFX with real footage is that they shot digitally, then physically filmed the digital, and then transformed it back to digital. This is why the film might look a little blurry or not focused enough compared to other modern movies, but that's an actual choice. I think CG effects work best if there's a slight blur. I think this is why Jurassic Park still works wonders, the actual "bad quality" of the movie helps the CG. As soon as you try to apply ultra definition to the dinos, you start to see how dated it actually is. Jurassic Park is saved by its own low quality of footage, lol. It's my thinking on this anyway. There's a shot of Zendaya walking away from the camera dressed in white that was incredibly crystal clear with all edges well defined. That's also on purpose I believe, to contrast with the rest of the movie. These are all choices, I believe. As it said in a Hollywood Reporter article back in September: "Fraser shot Dune on the Alexa LF, ARRI’s large-format digital camera, but Villeneuve then transferred the image onto 35 mm film which was then scanned back into digital. “So the image you see on screen has been through an emulsion…it’s a beautiful melding of digital and analog,” noted Fraser. “Where Denis is super smart is in being open to the idea that you can easily combine digital and analog and sometimes you can use that to get a result you have never seen before.” Link : www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dune-cinematographer-denis-villeneuve-movie-1235011592/
The „big explosion in the background with people running in front“ scene in Dune reminds me a lot of the „burning church in the destroyed village“ scene in 1917 Both movies had absolutely amazing, subtle, natural looking vfx and I just love this style (and the effort put into it)
Apt comparison seeing as if Greig Fraser hadn't been the DP for Dune, it almost certainly would have been Roger Deakins - who shot both 1917 and Blade Runner 2049 with Villeneuve.
@@dis0rian461 Dune was actually DP'd by Greg Fraser. Denis just worked with Deakins on his passed like 3 or 4 movies before Dune, so he learned so much and was able to apply a lot of the same methodology without Deakins there.
I love that you touched on what we _don't_ see in the film because that's something I noticed right away. They're not concerned if we can't see the space ships or the worms because there's so much sand in the air, so it feels so much more *real* and breathtaking because I wasn't reminded I was just looking at a pretty picture. So many big blockbusters have this problem of low contrast and uniform detail such that you eyes get confused and don't focus where they should. The grainy effect in Dune from the sand reminded me of the softness of VHS, it made me feel like I was there. Imagine if *Star Wars* was shot like this. Please dear *gods* bring back this grounded style of filmmaking.
Vileneuve is just amazing. He manages to create gorgeous films with amazing A-listers, good stories and most importantly doesn't treat his cast and crew like trash
This film is really a masterpiece on it's own. Every frame is cinematically designed majestically like an art. I hope more films will follow this kind of cinematography.
I would also add that, on the thopter scene, the usage of character close ups were also used to an advantage to not showing the whole lanscape for some moments made me feel like i was inside of the thopter with them also feeling a little bit anxious like "from wich direction is the worm going to appear"
My good buddy is friend with Denis Villeneuve, the guy eats lens and films at breakfast!! A true genuine cinema lover to the core. And he did his homework too, from music video clips (that's where he met my buddy back in the 80's) and worked very very hard all his way up from small Quebec films to the big silver screen and Hollywood movies. The path wasn't paved for him. Solid work ethics and fully dedicated to his craft, I have alot of respect for the man.
Fury Road is like 90% practical affects with very little CGI, Dune has a lot of CGI, but will never notice as it so neatly blends in. Both are master pieces and am glad I caught them in Big Screen.
The second time I saw that movie I realized I was doing the same thing I did through the first one - constantly holding onto my seat. Damn. The Honest Trailer for it isn't bad either.
Besides the look itself, I love the overall design spirit behind the entire movie. Frank Herbert did a... less than stellar job of describing the tech of Arakis in the book and the older overblown art deco style felt so fake and plastic. Everything in the new Dune looks and sounds utilitarian and analog, I love it
@@marcosrecio4062 literally. A desert gets extremely stale by the hour and a half mark, the movie's an absolute bore with non-stop exposition, disinterested acting and unimaginative visuals. Huge dissapointment coming from arguably the greatest director alive right now next to Eggers
"New" Dune style is brutalism. While it isn't something I would recommend for everyday life (depressing, monocolor concrete with little decorative elements), it can make stuff looking raw, full of "gravitas" and utilitarian look, perfect for the atmosphere in "Dune".
@@vladprus4019 yeah,but in Dune you get the feeling of variety,colors,distinctive societies. Here the only thing you can kinda tell apart Is the harkonnen because they're all bald guys wearing black. All the buildings and ships are basic shapes like squares,tubes,or spheres,it makes for something really boring to watch
I think this is kinda why I loved dune so much, it feels so much more realistic and grounded than any other sci-fi movie would, they don't add fancy lasers just for the heck of it, but keep everything so much more constrained to a more realistic world, and the VFX compliments that so well.
Even with all the praise he's been getting recently, Denis Villeneuve is still underrated. I don't think a lot of people quite understand how well he constructs mood and spaces. Imo, he's a better director than Nolan, who has been hit or miss for me.
Well said. I felt like Nolan is getting too much praise and is overrated and he sometimes goes over his head. He's also very bad at directing actual action scenes, especially gunfights, while Denis... well, you already know.
Denis Villeneuve movies gives me feeling which I only feel in music which i didn't think was possible in Movies.....its the subtle dreamy otherworldly atmosphere.....his movies are indeed pictures in MOTION.
I watched this and couldn't believe the quality of each shot, even after the 3rd time watching. Everything felt so grounded and real. One of my favorite parts of this movie is the dull colors. Summer Blockbusters have become heartless, CGI, rainbow explosions and this was the opposite; I truly felt that they allowed the characters and story to shine above all else. The visuals, while great, didn't feel hollow or empty, but instead complemented the amazing story. I began watching Black Widow the other day and I found myself not being able to finish it. (I've been a fan of Marvel and comic books my whole life, FYI.) The whole thing felt heartless and the effects felt like the main selling point, instead of the plot and characters. In Dune, I felt connected to the characters in a way I didn't expect going in. I cared about what happened to the characters here and that's something I can't say for any of Marvel's latest entries. I hope that they continue forward with the same style and don't allow greed and a "broader appeal," to ruin what made this movie so special.
For me this Dune, more than a movie, has been quite an experience. Thank you for making me understand why it is so different from everything else seen in the cinema.
I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. Because of all the advertisement I saw, I was expecting a bunch of shaky cam explosions and as much action packed into each scene as possible. Which is pretty unenjoyable. Some parts felt rushed but all in all it was a beautifully made, well done telling of the story. Cant wait for part 2!
Frank Herbert spent decades crafting and plotting the world of dune, meticulously adding minor details that make it same like an alternate universe that really could exist. As such I am very grateful that the directors and designers of the film dune went to such lengths to ensure that Herbert’s vision was made a reality. The little details in the vfx make it feel real and the audience immerse in this foreign world despite its fantastical nature. The combination of the stunning set, costume and sound design with these vfx truly respect and adhere to the source material.
Every major artificial shot includes a pre-emptive or an immediate response shot of something real, usually a real person. This makes it feel like the character & environment are the same, even though we intellectually know that’s impossible.
WOW. Man I've been so obsessed with the cinematography of this film. I'm just a normal dude with no knowledge in this area but I'm so blown away by the visuals here. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
i had the feeling that the overall look of the film especially the extensive bright lightning really emphasize the harshness of arrakis, you almost can feel its scorching hotness, dryness and the sand in the wind. cant wait for the second part
Not only was the writing fantastic in my opinion but the visuals were just so unbelievably good, and I'm really glad I randomly found this video to explain it, thank you.
great video. the problem with VFX is not with polygon count, texture resolution, etc. the most common issue that makes it look fake, like you said, is compositing. getting the live action plates to mix with the digital elements. changing lighting on real subjects in post in nearly impossible, and it always looks fake. so you need to get as much light information done on set as possible, even if the elements that will cast those lights will be done later. this really highlights the role of the visual effects supervisor, because he really needs to see, on the day of shooting, before any footage is sent to vfx companies, how to maximize the reference they are going to get, and make their job more of a matching process instead of a inventing process.
And I’d imagine that in turn makes the process of matching and creating the effects so much easier and more natural for those companies when they get the footage.
Hum i remember seeing a DUNE making of picture where the dragon flies helicopters were practical…this is a very cool detail that Denis Villeneuve implemented.
The main difference between the two styles is that in Black Widow, the value and content is Scarlet Johansson, so they must make sure that we always see her perfectly. In Dune, the goal is the storyline, and convey as much as possible of the Duniverse through style/mood/music/etc. => It doesn't matter whether you see the actor perfectly at all times.
Fantastic analysis! I never quite managed to put my finger on how Dune’s visuals stood out more than other CG heavy films like the MCU and DCEU films, but your video really shed some light on the subject.
Beautifully done! I've been sitting with how much I enjoyed this film, but had not yet catalogued the reasons why. You capture so much of what resonated for me -- the decidedly old-school feel of the filmmaking, how every detail of the world felt like you could touch it and the FX work was completely convincing. Love the way you make your case simply yet thoroughly and present it in a breezy pace with well-chosen references. Great stuff, man! Now I'm dying to see this film again! And binge more of your content!
I crafted the two shots at 3:03 & 3:05 and I have to say that the sand screen workflow was a welcome challenge over the usual blue screen/green screen. Special thanks to the Rotoscope department for helping out where keying was impossible. Everyone in the VFX teams knocked it out of the park! Be proud. Great analysis Thomas, thank you for spreading the magic of our art.
I give my thanks to you and your team for putting together some of the best movies of the last decade. A lot of the time I go to a theatre and forget about the movie in a couple days or hours. Haven't been thinking about any movies except Dune for the last 2 weeks. You guys are actual magicians.
Thank you Thomas. I actually learn a lot with your imputs. Sometimes when I exit the cinema theater I feel overly fascinated with what I just saw but I cannot finish to ground my thoughts. Dune being a primary example of this. And then I come here, listen to you and watch your videos, and everything makes sense. It's like mi brain says "Oh right, THAT'S why I loved this"
dude youre truly one of the best on here right now, sometimes video essays have this feeling that they just want to praise and not teach. you teach me new ideas everytime
Even with Dune part 2, the VFX never took me out of the experience or immersion. Not once did I think "Oh this is a CGI scene." or "did they do that practically?" I was just allowed to be immersed in the cinema.
This was great. I never liked most of the DC/Marvel visual effects, and now I know why. It's always cool when directors decide to do things as "real" as possible. Two of my favorite films are Mad Max: Fury Road and Ronin. Both directors tried to use as much "real life" footage as possible and you can really feel the kinetic energy, and see and "feel" the difference onscreen. Obviously with super hero stuff it's a lot more difficult, but I will check out Dune now. Didn't have much interest before this.
The subtle importance of lighting can be seen easily in video games. especially in older titles that have received recent updates, or fan made updates to their lighting. Its amazing how just making the light sources and reflections more realistic can go a long way towards making a setting more immersive. I wish that as an artist myself that I had much better control of lighting I just can't see it as well as I would like.
I loved how when you were showing Duke Leto flying an ornithopter while talking about grounded vfx, you’d switch to Poe Dameron flying an X-wing. Very similar scenes with the same actor but so different
I love this video breakdown. It's so great and informative. It also reminds me of why I'll also continue rooting for a director like Neill Blomkamp to keep coming back. The way he used VFX for both 'District 9' and 'Elysium', was to me, the textbook example of how to properly utilize the combination of digital and practical imagery. It's interesting, the way Villeneuve shot the Ornithopters for Dune is pretty much exactly how Blomkamp shot the Raven VFX for 'Elysium' during the landfill heist sequence. This video also reminds me of why I feel bad for James Cameron in terms of what he wanted to bring to the blockbuster forefront in 2009 with 'Avatar'. Not only was 3D poorly utilized by following filmmakers for several years after -- completely butchering the intent of what he was trying to do with that medium -- but his use of simul-cam motion-capture, and 3D-rendered environments, was also pissed away by studios like Marvel Studios and LucasFilm. What the content creators for Marvel and LucasFilm forgot, is that when Cameron created digital worlds like he did with 'Avatar', he created an entire ecosystem that not only functioned properly within the world of Pandora he created, but it also had a real flare for definitive art direction. As technologically dependent as Cameron has always been, it's ALWAYS been for the right reasons. It's a shame that James Cameron has put so much effort into pushing the boundaries of what's possible with VFX technology since the day he broke into filmmaking, only for following filmmakers to piss away his efforts by not properly using or understanding why he was trying to push those technologies forward to begin with. Say what you want to about 'Avatar' as a film, but its visuals still feel like a wholly crafted world. Compare to that to say, the final act of 'Shang-Chi', and look at how flat, lifeless, and desaturated the 3D environments are during the final action sequences of that film. To call it lazy would be too simple. It's just downright cheap and uninspired.
I also thought some of this too but not this detailed. I think it could easily have been fast-cut, flashy, and over the top action sequences in someone else's direction. But yeah, it was refreshing to have great shots linger on the screen for more than a second.
There were many full CG shots in this movie but it's the art direction and great story telling that never distracted you from the movie which is why you never realized how much CG this movie has. Because you can pause on many parts of the movie and instantly find out CG shots in a lot of cases but you are not going to pause because the movie is soo good. Although having practical lights adds a lot of ground for later adding explosions of other light sources, it can often makes thing even more difficult if things are not synced, then you'd have to do more extra work instead of not having lights to begin with. Probably the biggest reason why they had sand screen instead of green and blue are reflections and indirect lighting. Usually if you have green or blue screens, you'd have to replace the reflections and the green spill in post but in this case it looks natural because in the movie, the sand screen basically works as reflections of the desert and the color matches (with some manipulation) with the desert as well but people are not realizing that how much of a nightmare it was since sand screens are basically the same tone as skin so they couldn't key anything probably and had to manually roto everything. BRUHH.
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I was a helicopter pilot for 8 years, and while I was watching the movie I was struck by how realistic the movements of the ornithopters were. They were immediately familiar to me. Makes sense that they filmed actual helicopters doing the maneuvers and then digitally replaced them.
As a person who builds airplanes, I waited Vilneuve version of ornithopters. Because in book they were described as something with a huge thin wings, like a gragonfly has. And. In film ornithopters were like dragonflies, but the construction of its was totaly legitimate. Its almost a helicopter. They even changes the angles of attack and move different ways depend on changing directions. Wow.
They totally did the ornithopters right in this film, really sold me on them as believable aircraft.
But should they?
Forgive my simplicity here. Helicopters basically hang from the rotor at a single point, whereas ornithopters lean on wings on both sides. Wouldn't this change the dynamics drastically?
Though, this difference is unlikely to be visible or even known to... anyone?)
@@redrickschuhart4065 Do you accept (House Atreides accepts! sorry--) how ornithopter would glide on such tiny wings when they are fixed? When Paul escapes the storm, that is.
Same here, I was a career USAF rotor head, with quite a bit of desert flying experience and it doesn't surprise me at all to discover they used actual rotorcraft to create the take-off and landing sand and dust effects (although I did wonder why no one was wearing eye-pro in the future, you definitely needed some Wiley-X's or Oakley's to protect your eyes in that kind of rotor-wash....)
I crafted the two shots at 3:03 & 3:05 and I have to say that the sand screen workflow was a welcome challenge over the usual blue screen/green screen. Special thanks to the Rotoscope department for helping out where keying was impossible. Everyone in the VFX teams knocked it out of the park! Be proud.
Great analysis Thomas, thank you for spreading the magic of our art.
You guys' work are phenomenal! Thank you for bringing so much life in Dune!
you all did an amazing job!
Fantastic job you guys did! Absolutely fantastic!
wow ur a genius!!! so inspiring
They should pin 🧷 your comment.
I worked at Dune as a compositor I wasn't there at the beginning but I joined in the end of it where as I was asked to revisit some of the pre-approved shots. All I'm gonna say is Denis Villeneuve is the first Director who gave notes I want clamped values like in real life recordings. That approach all by itself made me believe in this movie more than any other I worked at.
What kind of notes did he give? What does “I want clamped values like in real life recordings” mean?
@@DylanDalal str8 out this man needs to explain himself
clamp means to stay within the 0 to 1 values range.
@@DylanDalal in real world lenses and cameras catch exaggerated values (over 1.00) in RGB. Where as in comp we clamp them to 1 to control colour better. In a perfect world that’s not how it suppose to be done but for the sake of VFX we are obligated to do that.
@@utq1005 I still feel like something is being lost in translation from industry lingo to lay person language.
I like how you mentioned that the CGI was used to EXTEND reality, not create reality. It reminds me of motivated lighting...not creating light from zero, but adding to what's already there.
I guess we could call it 'motivated CGI'... and I love that Villeneuve took this approach.
David Funcher is the master of this. Seamless composite backgrounds.
You should watch Fury Road if you haven't already. They use the same techniques when it comes to CGI.
@@sudevsen True, it is very hard to tell what is CGI in a Fincher movie. Nolan is also notorious for his careful use of CGI
@@LuisSierra42 there's nothing subtle about the CGI for Inception, Interstellar or Tenet lol
kinda like the explosions in Mad Max Fury Road, really. Miller did use real explosions, but then used CG to make them bigger, which gives a very different effect than more recent Michael Bay films
I have to say: Villeneuves movies feel like a masterclass in creating atmosphere through worldbuilding. Even in a movie like Prisoners, you just can´t escape the dread he wants you to feel.
i hated the plot of prisoners but the mood was excellently horrible lol.
Wut? calm down
@@dubudubudan , what do you mean? Why did you hate it? That film is made to make the audience feel uncomfortable.
@Toivo Kallio the mood is what i liked about it, it was uncomfortable in the best way, which was what i meant in my comment
@@dubudubudan some people can’t read between the lines lol your comment describes how I felt exactly about that movie. Check out Dennis’s 2010 movie Incendies. Another masterpiece that isn’t sci fi.
One of the reviews of this movie was someone saying that seeing Dune in theatres felt like seeing Star Wars in theatres for the first time. I asked my dad, who saw Star Wars in theatres, and he said he thinks it's even better than Star Wars in the theatres. I gave him my copy of the book. He's hooked.
Dune is better than Star Wars in every way you can think of, but at 15 years old walking into the theater with no idea what I was about to see, Star Wars blew the lid right off the building.
This is a great analogy, comparing watching Dune in theatre to watching Star Wars first time back in the days. I feel fortunate that I have experienced both like your Dad did. It is a great feeling that has been lost and never found until now.
Obviously the newer dune would be better than an older movie like star wars
It was a total different experience. Star Wars never looked real, it was always the fairy tale and the original effects were "cheap". I watched TV Battlestar Galactica before i watched Star Wars and always thought their effects were so much better than the death star.
And i went to the Cinema in 1984 twice to see Dune (second time in an attempt to understand the story). I think it was as epic in contrast to the just release Muppet Show (aka Star Wars 3) than Dune is now compared to the Marvel universe.
Dune's vfx is so realistic that it does not look like vfx at all. The movie should get an oscar or vfx or cinematography.
Or all of them!
Both actually. The vfx was so good that I really couldn't tell whether a shot was practical or pure CG
Everything looked crisp and verisimilar, EXCEPT the balloons; while I understand these are dirigibles employed by a space-faring empire, they inflate too perfectly like there’s no wind as the bladder ejects and inflates
After i watched the movie i hear someone talk about the vfx of Dune and it was just at that moment that i realized that the movie i just saw is a movie and had CGI
Idk.. those balloons that popped out of the ship looks pretty Meh
The absolute best example of digital cameras being used realistically vs breaking physics is to watch Pacific Rim and Pacific Rim 2 back to back. The first one, directed by Guillermo Del Toro, has very grounded cameras to give the jaegers a sense of scale. They feel massive because the camera stays on the ground where a human would be and looks up at them as they fight the kaiju. You get a very realistic feel for how massive they are. The second film, directed by Steven DeKnight, has those physics defying cameras that swoop around and do moves a real camera could never do. The jaegers and kaiju in the first film feel a lot bigger and heavy and massive. In the second film, it doesn't matter. You could be watching toys on a miniature model city. It takes away all of their scale and size.
At the risk of sounding like a huge Del Toro fan or Pacific Rim fan, there's another thing to mention. Del Toro does slows down the movement of the giant robots and aliens. A tiny mouse scampering across the floor looks like it's moving fast and an elephant looks slow and lumbering. The mouse and elephant cover the same distance in the same amount of time. The mouse has to do it with 50 steps and the elephant in just one. Our brains see this as fast and slow when they're technically travelling at the same speed. So a giant robot would look very slow to us even though when it throws a punch, its fist is traversing 100s of feet in just a second or two. Del Toro realized this and slowed down the action a lot which worked alongside the realistic cameras to make the jaegers and kaiju feel enormous. The second film didn't care. I didn't really like either films. There was a lot of other stuff wrong with both of them. But one thing Del Toro got right is knowing how to make them feel massive.
Watching Pacific Rim 2 is like watching an episode of Power Rangers.
You beat me to the Pacific Rim comparison. Well done.
@@29drmark lol I was in my late teens when it was popular on TV so I never paid it much attention, being a children's show. But I do remember how it just looked like people in robot costumes stomping around cardboard shaped like buildings.
@@CTBell-uy7ri It's an obvious effect to anyone that even has a cursory interest in cinematography. The fact that so many films get it wrong is just bizarre. Dune and Pacific Rim get it right and just about every director of a Marvel Studios film gets it so wrong. It's strange.
Dune for me was the only movie I have every watched that made me think "This is fucking epic" And I really am not exaggerating. That scene specifically when the ship emerges from the water I remember just being in awe. And there were plenty of moments like that while watching. Dune has got to be the first movie in 10 years or more where I walked out the cinema planning my return to the same film.
I saw it in theaters 3 times because I kept taking my friends/family to go see it. Incredible each time. Loved the book series and they did such an amazing job with the sounds and visuals.
When the Worm came out and lurked over Paul and Jessica just off the rocks I teared up.
Everything looked so good, brought one of my favourite books to life
For me it's the first movie that compared to the Lord of the Rings trilogy in that way since they came out. So definitely check those out if that epic atmosphere is your thing. I saw Dune twice in the theaters and it's been years since I've paid to do that
Exactly the same thoughs. This is the film of the decade for me. Wanted to watch it in cinema again but was taken off from screen a week later after I saw it the first time. Ended up watching it on TV.
Agree! This movie is the perfect example of a production that uses CGI as a tool to enhance reality to achieve fantasy, instead of completely ignoring the foundations to get to it. so even though the movie has alien technology, I believed every second of it because everything just feels right.
2:54 I absolutely love the quiet descent of the Sarduakar soldiers invading the chamber with gravity dampers. Notice when each of them is about 15 feet from the floor, they touch some control with their left hand in the middle front of their suit. It's just so awesome. And the quiet/secret invasion of the Sarduakar soldiers is pivotal in the story. I'm going to watch it again.
wow I never noticed that, such amazing attention to detail!
It's the best shot of the movie IMO
It's was incredible realistic looking yet looks so sci-fi. I guess the whole film looked that way and it's incredible
I thought they were flying lol
I want an IMAX version home release in 4K ASAP. This movie is so good!
Also the fact that you can't see the bene Gesserit spaceship landing, from the light it emits, is not a sacrifice, more like a visual storytelling device that enhances the mystery and ominousness that surrounds the sisterhood from Paul's and the audience's perspective at the time.
And the payoff scene of the sisters walking from the ships through the windy night is all the better for it, fueled by all the suspense created by the previous shot.
(Though the music in that scene is a large part of why it's so great)
Exactly. It´s not showing off VFX, it´s proper storytelling.
same thoughts here. Couldnt articulate it better
Honestly I loved that shot, gives the already mysterious sisterhood a real veil of unknown to it. Such an enormous and powerful seeming craft, yet hidden from Paul and our full inspection. It provides such a powerful emotional response, I was constantly awe-struck and mystified by the storytelling, and it made the film something most films don't manage to be - an experience.
I didn't leave the film talking about how good the film was, I was so immersed and involved in the characters and world that I just remembered how absolutely tiny the film made me feel. It takes something really special to give me the same feeling I get when I look at a mountain range; that's what Dune did for me. Just incredible
@@Blobbyo25 I wouldn't be surprised if I simply forgot to breath in some parts of the film. It was utterly captivating.
Reminds me of a quote from college: “the mark of a good artist is knowing what to do. The mark of a master artist is knowing when to pull back and do less.”
I feel like the way they do the virtual cameras fits this.
I worked on Black Widow on the sequences you referenced - you are absolutely right in saying that everything is possible. In BW they just wanted it to look like this. It always comes down to what the client/director/studio wants really. But there is a reason why most of my colleagues and I would prefer working on movies like Dune :)
Would you say there’s an added time pressure on say a marvel movie compared to Dune or is it just that Disney and marvel create unrealistic deadlines for the amount of work you need to do? I remember seeing something about how a small group of the VFX artists had a year to work on the Rachel sequence in Blade Runner 2049 and thats like a two minute sequence.
That's super interesting! Were you a compositor?
so that was intended?
ngl, i kind of get it and I guess the client has the final say
I guess it's just no win situation here
"It always comes down to what the client/director/studio wants really."
Why do they want to ignore physically plausible lighting when it would be absolutely trivial and relatively cost effective to do it right? Are they stupid?
Let me rephrase that question: Why are they so stupid?
Correct me If I am wrong but they do extensive pre-visualisations and planning, why not use some additional lights while shooting on green-screen? Especially in a scene with strong environment lights like an explosion behind the character. It would make integration of CGI into the live-action plate so much better.
I don't get it.
@@aronseptianto8142 My guess is they wanted to see the actor's phase clearly all the way through. In the more realistic shots from Dune, you can't see Josh Brolin's face half the time. Sets the mood way better, but takes away from your super expensive star player's on-screen time.
As a compositor in the VFX industry for over 10 years now, what I am saying is that they way Denis uses VFX IS objectively better than the others you compared to. I'm not afraid to step on toes for the hard truth.
Besides covering my butt from Marvel fans, the larger point I wanted to emphasize was that I don't think "realism" is inherently better than a stylized approach, as long as each is serving the goals of the story. But I totally agree, a lot of the stuff that's out there isn't great.
Would we ever get to see a realistic marvel movie, who knows
@@LuisSierra42 MCU has never won any Oscar and the award always goes to the most realistic one like first man over infinity war
@M. A Realistic in the sense that, while watching the movie i could find myself saying "this could actually happen", like i felt while watching Dune. It is not realistic in a scientific sense but more like a feeling
I wonder if Marvel would be better off leaning further into the cartoonishness of the effects rather than attempting to go for much realism. Since they are based on comics and cartoons, maybe their house style could push the envelope further on that front rather than existing in a kind of half space between the two.
Dune's VFX were the best I have ever seen in a movie, hands down. It also blows me away that the budget is almost half of movies that have comparable but not superior vfx. What a fantastic job. They've rekindled my faith in modern moviemaking
Check out First Man. It will blow you away.
I guess planning is key
"Suicide Squad 2" comes close, though, since they have to deal with CGI characters.
Dude the energy shields look like poop...
@@squaeman_2644 dude, you see the energy shields in the 1984 version... at least there are more than 5 polygons,
Dune is the rare film where digital effects are almost completely convincing. I can't say that about most movies. There's always something off about things.
It's epitome of flat dead line. i.e B O R I N G
The shot where paul reveals his face inside an armor looks pretty bad to me. It's the shot at the end of the trailer. You can check.
@@MegaYutto Paul is seeing the future in that scene. His visions are not entirely realistic which is why it looks that way.
@@BbGun-lw5vi wow. That’s impressive hand waiving. Or a joke, and I don’t get it. Please tell me why Paul sees a vision of his Chris knife , it’s mounted in a frame like it’s on sale for auction at Christie’s.
The 2002 original spiderman had for me the first most obvious examples of what cgi shouldn't be doing. 20 years to reel it back?
I'm going to say it, Dune was superior. That scene when they arrive on planet with the wind blowing people's clothes was great. I was in awe when I first saw it. Everyone else would have shot the scene with no wind. I love how everything in Dune is gritty, dirty, rusty, wet, etc.
Well, not many things were wt, since you know, they were in the desert, but I get your point
You could feel that sand in this scene and hear it it was just as you would land there yourself
@@istvanbarath6333 Well the baron was in that wet bath healing, and Caladan had all that water on it, and on Arrakis that guy was watering the trees.
@@tdanel Agreed it was awesome.
@@istvanbarath6333 OP was referring to Dune the movie, not the planet
Dune has extensive inner dialogue with all the characters which isn't something that can always be verbally expressed. I like to think the camera work staying with the characters is a way to ground that scene/emotion to the character.
More than the effects, this is what I most appreciated about the film. So many characters get killed off, or are otherwise squeezed into very little screen time, and the art of developing each and every one of them through to their resolution as real characters, with deaths, or motivations that matter was perfect. The acting, framing, editing of the characters of Leto, Mapes, Duncan, Yueh, Jamis, hell, the Harkonnen crew on the thopter, all felt fully fleshed out as humans important to the storydespite tiny amounts of screen time each.
In a Befores & Afters-article, the VFX Supervisor mentions that an added benefit of the sandscreens in post production was that they turned blue when the colors were inverted. So in some cases they could actually pull a bluescreen key from the sandscreens using this process.
Which as a vfx artist still doesn't seem like helping a lot to me. If you need a key of any of the dust-colored elements in the film, even faces, the problem is not that the screen is not blue, but that things are similar in colour to your screen. Which ends in big amounts of roto, which is hard, expensive and time consuming.
@@arghail0 Let's not pretend as if roto sweatshops in third world countries aren't a thing. Always delightful to watch client supes throwing artists under the bus just to keep the directors pleased.
@@anurandev7337 Yeah, it's kind of an open industry secret that the best key tool is not any screen color or algorithm - it's a massive workforce outside Hollywood doing hand rotoscoping.
@@steffenbach3580 indeed. And I’ve sat beside some. Watching them in horror doing precise hair roto with motion blur and defocus taken into account. All of them overworked and underpaid, and yelled at when asking for a respectful work condition.
@@anurandev7337 They should probably quit then.
I've been a fan of the Dune novels for over 20 years. I was excited and nervous about this adaptation. As a long time fan it makes me so happy to hear people praising this film, and for this film to bring in so many new Dune fans. With so many other disappointments from Hollywood in the last few decades, the success and quality of this movie was definitely a welcome change.
Somehow dune has flown under my radar and I didn’t even know that the book existed prior to watching the movie, but now I’m a hardcore fan already and almost swallowed the first book.
I’m so happy I discovered it and I’m so happy they did such a great job!
I began reading the novels recently after I saw the movie a month and a half ago. It's funny, where I live there's now a waiting line of a few HUNDRED for the first Dune novel at the city library. The film definitely ignited some huge new interest in the books.
Interestingly enough, it seems that if you take a classic that is considered to be incredible literature on its own and just re-tell the story in film format with high fidelity to the original setting, it is highly appealing to the viewers.
The producers of Lord of the Rings recognized this and made what is to this day one of the best fantasy-action film series ever created. I suspect Dune is on a similar trajectory for Sci-Fi.
I saw this film a few weeks ago and immediately picked up the books. I've just finished Children of Dune and have the rest of Frank Herbert's books coming tomorrow.
@rrar rarr to be fair, the books do skip quite a bit on some details that the movies cover better. Seeing the technology, vehicles, buildings, etc. in the movies has really helped me to better visualize the novels.
This is one of the best films I've ever seen in 40 years. Everything about it - casting, dialogue, acting, story arc, cinematography, sound & music - EVERYTHING was fantastic.
What about lord of the rings
The writing in this movie is super poor imho. So are consequentially the characters and story. The casting and acting was good, but there are hundreds if not thousands of movies with better perforances. The score, here's the controversy, I thought it wasn't good. The sound, the visual effects and even the production design were great. The cinematography looked cool but lacked of depth, imo again.
@@r.c.c.10 sounds like this movie sucks then hmmm
@@TheBalloonBob Well, 7/10 for me. It's fine. Nothing great.
@@r.c.c.10 your realize that dune isn't just a movie made recently right? its a very old book and a film adaptation from the 80s... the story is great but i guess thats subjective
The visual artifacts on the Ornithopter's wings, the way they turn from blur to visible for a split second in different positions, replicates the way our brain processes things that actually move very fast in a repetitive pattern... it looked so good.
“I’m not saying his (Denis Villeneuve) approach is inherently better than other VFX styles.” Nope, it is. I’m saying it: it *absolutely* is better.
Yuppp
this guy just wanted to say "villeneuve"
Yepperdy Yepperson and her daughter, Yepperdy Yepperson Jr
yes ma'am it sure is. I want more of it too.
Yes, because you want to suspend disbelief when you're watching, and really get into the movie.
I've watched dune 5 times already. and I still can't get enough of it. A true masterpiece
Same! I had no expections about it, as I didn't know much about the story before watching it, but man, it sucked me right in. Amazing work by Denis and the actors!
Same - and I'm super happy we're getting part 2.
@@rpcheesman i've read that villenueve said somewhere he is planning a trilogy *for now* but i'm hopeful it will have many projects like star wars
for a minute i thought you were saying you watched “Dune 5” already as a precognition joke and just accepted it lol
The best visual effects should feel "invisible." They should serve the story, not replace it. The Mission Impossible series is also a good example of this, they do most stunts & effects in-camera, even when they could easily do them with green screen.
And when they use CGI (which they certainly do... example ofc being the masks) they do a good job of trying to make it appear as realistic as possible.
I gotta disagree- yes good VFX plays an invisible role in most if not all big-budget movies, even films that aren't action-oriented. But at the end of the day, VFX has entered a field in the last decade where it 'wants' to be seen, where movies have created their own styles of VFX that people also enjoy seeing, as if it's become its own medium. This is why I feel like Thomas approached this video very well by establishing that Dune's approach to VFX isn't inherently better than other movies like Endgame, Endgame's VFX is still incredibly executed. It's just that Denis is pursuing hyperrealism because that's his style and that's what he feels is right for Dune, Marvel does not have to do that because they're not doing hyperrealism, they're doing graphic novel-esque movies with more character 'screencaps' and more campy/lighthearted writing/directing. It's not a flaw, they're all creative choices.
Did you forget about Kremlin destruction scene? Obvious green screen and extremely fake explosions.
@@NuclearArcticFox "they do MOST stunts & effects in-camera"
There's definitely a line, though, and Cruise crossed that line around the Burj Khalifa scene. In camera stunts are fine until they actively endanger any of the cast. Granted, Cruise was the one that pushed for endangering his own life, but no one should've let him.
one of the things that made this movie feel more real as well was how the music actually reacted to things happening in the movie. one example i can think of is at some point they fly over the big city that has about 3 tall buildings that they fly over very closely. and you can actually hear a "whoosh" effect in the music at precisely those times.
Absolutely! I had a feeling, that the soundtrack, environment sounds and the visuals are kinda woven together. Another scene is the one with ships on Caladan emerging from water with this horn sound - it just could be part of the soundtrack
The sound designer / fx editor would be adding those whooshes and horns - all environmental, vehicle, technology and creature sounds. Some of which are carefully tuned and balanced by the editor and the mixer for a desirable experience for the audience. I thought they did an excellent job!
@@mochachaiguy Except they were not horn, and some cases were if only kind of an emulation. Zimmer explains it better: ua-cam.com/video/93A1ryc-WW0/v-deo.html
When I watched Dune for the first time, I couldn't articulate the technical aspect of the movie as well as you have, however, I immediately thought about how natural and beautiful everything looked. Dune is a groundbreaking masterpiece of our time.
I loved the books and read them 30+ years ago. I’ve re-read them half a dozen times. This interpretation of Dune was fantastic. It’s the only book to film adaptation that hasn’t disappointed. Yes you can’t squeeze everything into the films. But what he’s done is as close as possible. Just a phenomenal effort. My favourite film since Thin Red Line.
For me, American Psycho is the other stand-out adaptation of a book
@@robosklegs Yes! That's another really good one. Again, I read that back in the mid-nineties when everyone was talking about it saying how dark and stylistic it was. I never thought anyone could adapt that book to a film successfully. But they did. It was excellent. Another one I like was ‘Atonement’. That was a fairly good adaptation. But there are many more misses than hits when it comes to book to film adaptations. I think the no.1 criticsm on IMBd reviews is ‘not as good as the book’. I've read that comment a thousand times. I think doing it successfully takes real skill and intelligence. Arguably more than an original script.
The lord of the rings?
@@thomasweir2834 I have not yet read the books. I have however seen the original (1984?) film, played the Game from 1992 and seen the miniseries from 2000ish. What did you think of the miniseries if you have seen it?
The Godfather succeeded aswell to adapt the novel to film.
Haha, that cutting back and forth between Oscar Isaac's roles of Poe and Leto was clever. Nice work on the whole video, there's so much to admire about Dune and the process of creating it.
Looking at TROS and Dune, you can almost *feel* how relieved Isaac was in the latter film to work with something that actually had substance.
He did the same for Momoa; that was the one I noticed.
I completely forgot the two characters have the same actor. Lol
those cuts made me realise I spent Dune wishing I could fly an ornithopter but the latest star wars movies didn't have that old magic of wishing I could fly an x-wing.
Actors are like paintbrushes. They need a good artist to use them properly
I remember seeing this in IMAX and the scene that absolutely blew me away was the Bene Gesserit ship. I absolutely love how they enshrouded it in fog and that one wide shot of them walking out of the ship. It made the ship feel so grand and imposing even though we couldn’t see the entire thing-and tbh, _because_ we couldn’t see the entire thing. It felt mysterious and eerie and unsettling, just like the Bene Gesserits themselves. It set the tone for the scene and it was visually stunning.
This video unintentionally makes Snyders Justice League look like a middle school art project, Dune was just amazing
At least his films have a distinct look though, Marvel movies are shot like network procedurals.
Even before it was the case, its crap, its cheap, boring.
Lol, what? ZSJL was not supposed to look grounded or realistic like Dune.
I think Dune makes every other movie look like a a middle school art project! xD
@@hoya1178 You can make the cgi look good and unrealistic. The lighting and textures and especially animation looks bad in justice league
the first scene where with the ornithopters, when they fly into the city from the spaceport, every position of the camera, and movement through the digital space was from a possible vantage point of the thopter, which helped us get immersed with the perspective of the characters flying through.
I honestly was more astounded by the visuals in dune than in other blockbusters. The spaceships and sand worm had a sense of scale to them that I don’t get from other movies.
It’s really amazing how visual effects add to the story of Dune. It makes you feel that every scene is utterly important and has so much meaning.
All that really means is that they nailed it with this film. This was always considered an impossible story to put on film, because of the high density of narrative information contained in the novel.
The score had a lot to do with that too (and to an extent I honestly found kind of overbearing).
Denis seems to have a real love and feel for old school sci-fi imagery. I remember recognizing it in Bladerunner, there were several very understated but fantastical scenes that looked straight off the cover of some older scifi books or magazines I'd read as a kid. I knew he'd do Dune right based purely on that and I look forward to anything scifi related he puts out.
I love the old scifi imagery and I'd love to see a return to it. That sense of wonder and mystery in space is something sorely missed
He also loves the source material
Yeah, he seems like this was something he has dreamed of doing since he was a kid.
@@jr2904 I was thinking the same thing. The guy is in love with the story and world building.
Too bad his sci fi stuff is just pretty visuals
I went in to the movie with very low expectations. Not because I doubted Villeneuve, but I couldn't imagine it doing Herbert's Dune justice. My expectations were completely blown away. For once, in what feels like an eternity, the source book was done actual justice. Villeneuve & Co's whole approach was to determined and poised to do it justice from the outset, and it definitely helps that Brian Herbert was included as EP. I am so so pleased to see how well the movie did to stick to its roots - the book & Frank Herbert's universe - that it almost makes me emotional. Cinema has felt like trash for the last decade, but this is a stellar deviation from that trend. Can't wait for Dune 2.
The other great thing about Denis is that he likes shooting with scale models, which always look more realistic than CGI. I think the city of Arakeen was a miniature, or at least parts of it, and some of the ships may have been models. Denis shoots as much as he can in-camera so that there's almost always something real in a vfx-heavy shot.
My understanding is that no miniatures were used for Dune. They were used extensively for BR2049, but everything you see in Dune is digital. DNEG made a video about the process.
IMO it's pretty obvious that the whole of Arrakeen is digital. It deserved a practical effect.
@@birdsofafeather8368 hmm I wonder why they didn't use them for Dune. The miniatures in Bladerunner 2049 (and the original) were sooooo good
This was something I noticed while watching and afterwards my dad and sister both asked “how was that so immersive” and I was explained to them basically this video and how Denis Villenueve grounds every shot as if it were actually being filmed. I just absolutely adore this film it’s in there with my top 3 best cgi used in films the others being Blade Runner 2049 and Rogue One which also has cinematography by Greig Fraser
And blade runner is also by Villeneuve - he just understands how it works so much better than most filmmakers
@@AxTechs I know
Agree - had same experience with my family. Also reminds me of how masterfully CGI was used in Mad Max: Fury Road
Same I love when they do that, I don't mind some "cool" shots with digital cameras but grounded shots are so much better. Most of the time digital ones look like videogame cutscenes, I will never forget black panther climax looking straight up from a 2013 videogame
Rogue One's CGI was unbelievable
comparing DUNE to Black Widow is like comparing a bottle of Dom Perignon to one of those wine-in-a-box you get from 7-11.
Theyre the same price though.
@@robertharris6092 that's pretty sad for disney then. They could deliver much better with their budget
champagne problems
@@klickklack3949 correct.
The difference is I actually like Dune. Expensive alcohol usually tastes terrible.
Dune is the first movie I’ve seen at the cinema that I thought was beautiful, in part due to how it felt so real, as you say grounded in reality. It enhanced its beauty by making it feel like it could be our world, we could be there.
did you watch Bladerunner 2049?
You are clearly a well informed person who truly understands the cinema process. Your video is constructed like a well thought out essay. Well done and keep up the good work.
Denis is the greatest director of the last 15 years in my opinion. I heard an interview with him wherein he explains that he always wants to answer the question "why does this shot matter?". Each shot has a connection to the character. Even establishing shots!
I really enjoyed the technical analysis and look forward to viewing more of your material!
I loved Dune so much I bought the book. Great breakdown Thomas! Very good stuff.
A real paper book in 2021? Personally I go for cuneiform tablets. Paper really ruined the medium
wow hi bro
You are in for a real treat. There is SO MUCH in the book that just won't fit in a film. Dune is one of the most imaginative and expansive works of world-building of any fiction genre.
Fuck yeah dude! Dune reignited my passion for reading a few years ago and I've been pretty consistently tearing through fiction since then, it's just too bad I havent found anything that has sucked me in like Dune did (LotR is next on my list though).
Same! After watching the movie we went straight to the bookstore a block away and I bought the first three books.
What I don't get is how he was able to do all this in just $165M.
That's almost the budget of Shang-Chi. And it is 20% less than the budget of Black Widow!
Shang-Chi had worse-than-mediocre lighting and VFX to the point where I could even make out the greenscreen shots which is extremely anti-immersive I must say.
Denis and his team managed to make Dune such an immersive experience WHILE PAYING FOR ALL THE STARS with just the budget of your average run-of-the-mill Marvel film.
As Tom said, Dune was subject to a lot of care, passion and creativity. Which is something you don't usually get with formulated marvel movies that are just being churned out for profit.
Homie, 165m is a TON of money. You’re forgetting that marvel cranks out movies every year and really rush the vfx workers. Dune had multiple years to perfect it visuals
120 million for many year =360 million for a few year
Red Notice cost $200 million. My head hurts.
Most of the costs of Marvel movies comes from two places. They have very strict scheduling, every movie has to make their release date no matter what which can mean the VFX get rushed especially when the VFX team is overworked and underpaid. Second, everything is compartmentalized so that each movie looks the same. So the actual directors aren’t always part of pre production or post production or even directing the action scenes. Every Marvel movies gets extensive reshoots to make it conform to the Marvel style and fit into the overall narrative for every other movie. Sometimes that means shooting most of the movie again like what’s happening now with Doctor Strange. TLDR. They’re expensive because they're micromanaged and look like crap because they're often rushed and have to conform to the Marvel style.
That shot of the bene gesserit getting off their spacecraft (don't know if i spelled that right) honestly gave me such an uneasy feeling seeing it the first time. It's hard to say why exactly. The soundtrack, the peace of night being broken by their arrival. It was so sinister.
Do a video on “Why are DUNE’s costumes like that?”
And then do “Why is DUNE’s acting like that” you could talk about every thing about this film and I would be happy because I loved everything about this movie
Dave Bautista in Dune: I’ll give you one better. Why is Dune?
@@SampathWijesinghe Nobody asks: How is Dune? :(
@@cy-one :(
Honestly, my only complaint is in things that didn't make it from the book. I understand that cuts needed to be made for the sake of telling a story via movie, but man, an extended cut would be awesome
They look like rejected costumes of Marvel movies. It's amazing how bland everything looks
Sandscreens? Oh man my respect for the rotoscope team just went up a few hundred degrees.
Same. When he said:
"but sand colored screens were still close enough and uniform enough that they could get the job done"
I just though 'green and blue screens are never uniform enough to key anyway, so why not use beige instead indeed, since it would need rotoscoping either way.'
Well, even with blue/greenscreen there is a lot of rotoscoping involved. Just think of reflections and especially motion blur. And rotoscoping tools are improving.
Still those are the unsung heroes of VFX!
@@MaxxMcGeePrivate Have you heard of Magic Mask in AE, or other similar technologies? It makes rotoscoping many many times easier, quicker, and more accurate. Any remain flaws can be adjusted by hand, if any.
@@Leukick That's what i mean with improving. ;)
I've seen what modern tools can do without drawing a single mask by hand.
@@Leukick its good for quick youtube videos, but its nowhere near where it need to be for actual production. Plus, we dont use AE for compositing in production anyhow.
Camera movement is an underrated point, Villeneuve blessed us with the gift of stillness, I just can’t overstate how much I despise the dizzying camera movement some directors use ALL THE TIME just because they can
Honestly Thomas can breakdown every aspect of Dune and I'll watch all of them.
Especially since it means I get to rewatch all the scenes. I swear, every single shot from this film is beautiful.
I second that!
I'm still utterly convinced the night chase of the ornithopter is a miniature. The shot is so convincingly real.
And Arrakeen when they first arrive and fly over the city
@@BJforthelife yeah I also kept thinking that that's a miniature! Very curious to see a VFX breakdown to find out if it's actually the case.
Cg and in Clarisse
I'm still convinced that it was a real ornithopter flying on the actual planet Arrakis.
Arakkis seemed so realistic like it really exists in a desert country and also the wings of ornithopter
This is one of the best-made breakdowns of cinematic style I have ever seen. This is such an incredibly well-put-together video essay. I'm really impressed! I found both Dune and your video itself very inspiring artistically.
This movie felt enthralling, I couldn't look away from the screen. The amount of work and detail put into this movie felt like someone actually cared and wasn't another big studios decision. You can tell Denis Villeneuve's passion for this movie and book through the movie itself. Great analysis on the movie I also have to add that Hans Zimmer also did an amazing job at brining this movie to life.
Zimmer is good in most films, but I imagine giving someone like him- who loves to write to the scene -the kind of visuals that Dune has to offer in such beautiful vividness was very inspiring for the score he wrote.
You can tell when his score is especially inspired in films like Interstellar and Pirates of the Caribbean.
@@OneBiasedOpinion The scene with Leto and the Baron is perfect example.
7:50 Absolutely correct. VR camera's have their place, but "impossible camera shots" are often over used. This is a very good commentary.
Let us also not forget the dreaded digital-camera-but-trying-to-fake-it-as-real with overexaggerated vibrations and zooms.
@@Endemoniada I think you misunderstood why he uses the Marvel/DC examples. He repeatedly said that it's not a good v. bad comparison, but showing the difference between the approaches. Yes, there could have been other examples but I think it makes sense to take some that are not just well-known but have been produced at about the same time as Dune. I agree that impossible camera and the like make complete sense in a superhero setting where physics are bent on a regular basis. It's not really to my personal liking but I'm not a big fan of superhero movies either way. Still I can see why you'd choose that approach as a director and I do think that Thomas made the same point in his video. It's just that there has been so much impossible camera movement etc. that Villeneuve's approach DOES seem fresh. But fresh doesn't necessarily mean better.
There’s a saying in VFX: nothing looks more real than real. When you work on a Marvel movie, more often than not, everything is green screen with little to no practical. This creates several problems but the two biggest are: the lighting can change from shot to shot within the same scene which makes difficult for VFX maintain plate continuity and thus stay grounded in reality. The second is there’s no practical reference to match against. This leaves a huge window for interpretation on how things should look. You’d be surprised how often people who know nothing about cinematography or VFX make the final decision on how things should look. We’re talking all the way up to the studio heads will have a say….after all it’s their money. That’s like a plastic surgeon telling an seasoned automotive body shop how to repair a damaged car.
It’s all about planning and more often than not the planning for shots isn’t grounded in reality from both a lighting and lens choice. That and everyone having their say on how something should look creates a distorted final product under the limitations of time and money.
I think one more point on that is his use of sets. Many movies would use green/blue screen for more impractical sets and locations, but Denis often has them built. While he justifies this for the actor's play, I think it also confuses the audience by blurring the line between practical and vfx in general, in this "extending of reality" principle you discussed.
What I admire the most is how expensive he makes Dune looks while coming up with a lower budget than expected. The rumors run that the movie costs between 130 million to 150 million dollars. Compare that to the usual Marvel movie costing 200 millions yet you don't see the money on screen. Present day directors rely heavily on CGI post production to correct and alter the visuals and many don't care anymore about doing actual lighting work, sets and all stuff practical. The anecdote that someone in the industry pointed to show that attitude was a director shooting a scene, then they noticed a fan onset that shouldn't be there. The director just shrugged and said they would erase it post-production. The crew guy was so annoyed, he walked to the fan, carried it out of the set by himself and told the director something along this line: "Now, you can thank me. I saved you 10,000 dollars."
@@little_dandelion Yeah Dune certainly looks pricier than 130-150M. They did great work.
This was definitely one of the most engrossing and immersive film experiences I’ve ever had (equal to LOTR). It was over and I was ready to watch another 3 hours of it. So amazing. Learning more about how they made it gives me so much more respect and I can’t wait for a director’s extended dvd cut.
One comment I had right after we saw the film was how…blurry it looked! But that was SO awesome! Everything (on Arakis at least) looked as if we were seeing it through sand or dust and on a desert planet that’s extremely realistic and I loved the visual aspect of that so much!
I went home after Blade Runner 2049 ... and watched the original Blade Runner. And the next day I re-watched Arrival and liked it better.
I remember leaving the theater feeling like I had sand in my boots. Hands down the most immersed I've ever felt in a fictional world. The thing that impressed me the most was the sand moving, changing shape and slowly caving before the worm immerged from it, because of the vibration underneath. I remember thinking YES! OF COURSE! That makes sense! So many little things that make this feel tangible and make you really feel the scale of everything that happens.
Good analysis.
But it's not just the lighting.
Something that they also did that helps with the blending of VFX with real footage is that they shot digitally, then physically filmed the digital, and then transformed it back to digital.
This is why the film might look a little blurry or not focused enough compared to other modern movies, but that's an actual choice.
I think CG effects work best if there's a slight blur. I think this is why Jurassic Park still works wonders, the actual "bad quality" of the movie helps the CG. As soon as you try to apply ultra definition to the dinos, you start to see how dated it actually is. Jurassic Park is saved by its own low quality of footage, lol. It's my thinking on this anyway.
There's a shot of Zendaya walking away from the camera dressed in white that was incredibly crystal clear with all edges well defined. That's also on purpose I believe, to contrast with the rest of the movie. These are all choices, I believe.
As it said in a Hollywood Reporter article back in September:
"Fraser shot Dune on the Alexa LF, ARRI’s large-format digital camera, but Villeneuve then transferred the image onto 35 mm film which was then scanned back into digital.
“So the image you see on screen has been through an emulsion…it’s a beautiful melding of digital and analog,” noted Fraser. “Where Denis is super smart is in being open to the idea that you can easily combine digital and analog and sometimes you can use that to get a result you have never seen before.”
Link :
www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dune-cinematographer-denis-villeneuve-movie-1235011592/
Thanks for sharing
Nice.
Honestly still amazed by how well the original Jurassic Park holds up, deffinitly feel like Dune is going to age even more gracefully
Wait, you can combert digital to film? How?
@@FilmCuy666 printing
The „big explosion in the background with people running in front“ scene in Dune reminds me a lot of the „burning church in the destroyed village“ scene in 1917
Both movies had absolutely amazing, subtle, natural looking vfx and I just love this style (and the effort put into it)
both had cinematography by roger deakins!
Apt comparison seeing as if Greig Fraser hadn't been the DP for Dune, it almost certainly would have been Roger Deakins - who shot both 1917 and Blade Runner 2049 with Villeneuve.
Have you seen that contained explosion of the ship with a shield? So impressive it's like seeing an explosions inside the box!
@@dis0rian461 Dune was actually DP'd by Greg Fraser. Denis just worked with Deakins on his passed like 3 or 4 movies before Dune, so he learned so much and was able to apply a lot of the same methodology without Deakins there.
I love that you touched on what we _don't_ see in the film because that's something I noticed right away. They're not concerned if we can't see the space ships or the worms because there's so much sand in the air, so it feels so much more *real* and breathtaking because I wasn't reminded I was just looking at a pretty picture. So many big blockbusters have this problem of low contrast and uniform detail such that you eyes get confused and don't focus where they should. The grainy effect in Dune from the sand reminded me of the softness of VHS, it made me feel like I was there.
Imagine if *Star Wars* was shot like this. Please dear *gods* bring back this grounded style of filmmaking.
Vileneuve is just amazing. He manages to create gorgeous films with amazing A-listers, good stories and most importantly doesn't treat his cast and crew like trash
Almost as if picking quality professionals and treating them like decent people is a benefit to the project they’re working on. 🤔
Another major point: he doesn't treat the audience like they're idiots.
This film is really a masterpiece on it's own. Every frame is cinematically designed majestically like an art. I hope more films will follow this kind of cinematography.
Great job! I'm a VFX Artist and this was a helpful reminder to use restraint and pay attention to what real cameras do with real light.
I’m really glad this version of Dune was created. It is a fantastic movie and pure eye candy. And as you said, it’s refreshing to look at.
Im also happy it made money. so often these movies bomb like 2049
I would also add that, on the thopter scene, the usage of character close ups were also used to an advantage to not showing the whole lanscape for some moments made me feel like i was inside of the thopter with them also feeling a little bit anxious like "from wich direction is the worm going to appear"
My good buddy is friend with Denis Villeneuve, the guy eats lens and films at breakfast!! A true genuine cinema lover to the core. And he did his homework too, from music video clips (that's where he met my buddy back in the 80's) and worked very very hard all his way up from small Quebec films to the big silver screen and Hollywood movies. The path wasn't paved for him. Solid work ethics and fully dedicated to his craft, I have alot of respect for the man.
Mad Max: Fury Road was in my opinion a masterful example of using CGI grounded in reality. I loved that film
Compare boths sandstorms scenes. Fury Road one Is amazing, Dune Is 10 min of dark sand
#This
Fury Road is like 90% practical affects with very little CGI, Dune has a lot of CGI, but will never notice as it so neatly blends in. Both are master pieces and am glad I caught them in Big Screen.
@@manu1434u Fury Road has A LOT of well-executed 'CGI'.
The second time I saw that movie I realized I was doing the same thing I did through the first one - constantly holding onto my seat. Damn. The Honest Trailer for it isn't bad either.
Besides the look itself, I love the overall design spirit behind the entire movie. Frank Herbert did a... less than stellar job of describing the tech of Arakis in the book and the older overblown art deco style felt so fake and plastic. Everything in the new Dune looks and sounds utilitarian and analog, I love it
It looks like everything else. Not new.
It's visually boring as hell, everything empty and square, with colors Tha go from gray,to black,to light Brown and that's it
@@marcosrecio4062 literally. A desert gets extremely stale by the hour and a half mark, the movie's an absolute bore with non-stop exposition, disinterested acting and unimaginative visuals. Huge dissapointment coming from arguably the greatest director alive right now next to Eggers
"New" Dune style is brutalism. While it isn't something I would recommend for everyday life (depressing, monocolor concrete with little decorative elements), it can make stuff looking raw, full of "gravitas" and utilitarian look, perfect for the atmosphere in "Dune".
@@vladprus4019 yeah,but in Dune you get the feeling of variety,colors,distinctive societies. Here the only thing you can kinda tell apart Is the harkonnen because they're all bald guys wearing black. All the buildings and ships are basic shapes like squares,tubes,or spheres,it makes for something really boring to watch
I think this is kinda why I loved dune so much, it feels so much more realistic and grounded than any other sci-fi movie would, they don't add fancy lasers just for the heck of it, but keep everything so much more constrained to a more realistic world, and the VFX compliments that so well.
Even with all the praise he's been getting recently, Denis Villeneuve is still underrated. I don't think a lot of people quite understand how well he constructs mood and spaces. Imo, he's a better director than Nolan, who has been hit or miss for me.
Nolan imho is a bit snobbish and has a sense of grandeur.
@@emeraldcrusade5016 Agreed.
Well said. I felt like Nolan is getting too much praise and is overrated and he sometimes goes over his head. He's also very bad at directing actual action scenes, especially gunfights, while Denis... well, you already know.
Denis Villeneuve movies gives me feeling which I only feel in music which i didn't think was possible in Movies.....its the subtle dreamy otherworldly atmosphere.....his movies are indeed pictures in MOTION.
@@ibanez9179 Well said!
I watched this and couldn't believe the quality of each shot, even after the 3rd time watching. Everything felt so grounded and real. One of my favorite parts of this movie is the dull colors. Summer Blockbusters have become heartless, CGI, rainbow explosions and this was the opposite; I truly felt that they allowed the characters and story to shine above all else. The visuals, while great, didn't feel hollow or empty, but instead complemented the amazing story. I began watching Black Widow the other day and I found myself not being able to finish it. (I've been a fan of Marvel and comic books my whole life, FYI.) The whole thing felt heartless and the effects felt like the main selling point, instead of the plot and characters. In Dune, I felt connected to the characters in a way I didn't expect going in. I cared about what happened to the characters here and that's something I can't say for any of Marvel's latest entries. I hope that they continue forward with the same style and don't allow greed and a "broader appeal," to ruin what made this movie so special.
Dune is an absolute masterpiece in all forms, I am beyond stoked for Part II.
“VFX do not suck, they’re just used poorly” - no one probably, but still true nevertheless
I think the director for mad max said something similar
~ At Oussama, 2021
Try quoting yourself more, it's a guaranteed power move.
@@doppelrutsch9540 just wanna say, it's not often you find an absolute legend lurking in the comments.
Carry on soldier, you're doing God's work.
“i agree with this” ~ At Oussama, 2021. Ultimate power move, cherry-pick your own quotes.
@@saturn5mtw567 Is there some context that I'm missing?
For me this Dune, more than a movie, has been quite an experience. Thank you for making me understand why it is so different from everything else seen in the cinema.
Amazing. All of his movies have these scenes that just excite you. He obviously has a good team in place and a clear vision.
I knew Dune felt different, but I could never quite put my finger on why. Kinda gives a whole new respect for what they've created.
I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. Because of all the advertisement I saw, I was expecting a bunch of shaky cam explosions and as much action packed into each scene as possible. Which is pretty unenjoyable. Some parts felt rushed but all in all it was a beautifully made, well done telling of the story. Cant wait for part 2!
Frank Herbert spent decades crafting and plotting the world of dune, meticulously adding minor details that make it same like an alternate universe that really could exist. As such I am very grateful that the directors and designers of the film dune went to such lengths to ensure that Herbert’s vision was made a reality. The little details in the vfx make it feel real and the audience immerse in this foreign world despite its fantastical nature. The combination of the stunning set, costume and sound design with these vfx truly respect and adhere to the source material.
Every major artificial shot includes a pre-emptive or an immediate response shot of something real, usually a real person. This makes it feel like the character & environment are the same, even though we intellectually know that’s impossible.
WOW. Man I've been so obsessed with the cinematography of this film. I'm just a normal dude with no knowledge in this area but I'm so blown away by the visuals here. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
the insistence to make the scene look real rather than all the individual stuff look awesome made everything (counterintuitively) awesome
i had the feeling that the overall look of the film especially the extensive bright lightning really emphasize the harshness of arrakis, you almost can feel its scorching hotness, dryness and the sand in the wind. cant wait for the second part
I’d love to see more about virtual sets like they used in the mandalorian, and the future of that tech
Not only was the writing fantastic in my opinion but the visuals were just so unbelievably good, and I'm really glad I randomly found this video to explain it, thank you.
great video. the problem with VFX is not with polygon count, texture resolution, etc. the most common issue that makes it look fake, like you said, is compositing. getting the live action plates to mix with the digital elements. changing lighting on real subjects in post in nearly impossible, and it always looks fake. so you need to get as much light information done on set as possible, even if the elements that will cast those lights will be done later. this really highlights the role of the visual effects supervisor, because he really needs to see, on the day of shooting, before any footage is sent to vfx companies, how to maximize the reference they are going to get, and make their job more of a matching process instead of a inventing process.
And I’d imagine that in turn makes the process of matching and creating the effects so much easier and more natural for those companies when they get the footage.
Hum i remember seeing a DUNE making of picture where the dragon flies helicopters were practical…this is a very cool detail that Denis Villeneuve implemented.
There was 1 practical ornithopter yea! For when characters were entering and exiting it
@@morganwardfilm And for the "Hovering over the sandworm" shot they did actually hang it from a crane real high up in the desert
@@morganwardfilm In an interview I think Denis said there were three
The main difference between the two styles is that in Black Widow, the value and content is Scarlet Johansson, so they must make sure that we always see her perfectly. In Dune, the goal is the storyline, and convey as much as possible of the Duniverse through style/mood/music/etc. => It doesn't matter whether you see the actor perfectly at all times.
Fantastic analysis! I never quite managed to put my finger on how Dune’s visuals stood out more than other CG heavy films like the MCU and DCEU films, but your video really shed some light on the subject.
Beautifully done! I've been sitting with how much I enjoyed this film, but had not yet catalogued the reasons why. You capture so much of what resonated for me -- the decidedly old-school feel of the filmmaking, how every detail of the world felt like you could touch it and the FX work was completely convincing.
Love the way you make your case simply yet thoroughly and present it in a breezy pace with well-chosen references. Great stuff, man! Now I'm dying to see this film again!
And binge more of your content!
I crafted the two shots at 3:03 & 3:05 and I have to say that the sand screen workflow was a welcome challenge over the usual blue screen/green screen. Special thanks to the Rotoscope department for helping out where keying was impossible. Everyone in the VFX teams knocked it out of the park! Be proud.
Great analysis Thomas, thank you for spreading the magic of our art.
I give my thanks to you and your team for putting together some of the best movies of the last decade. A lot of the time I go to a theatre and forget about the movie in a couple days or hours. Haven't been thinking about any movies except Dune for the last 2 weeks. You guys are actual magicians.
Thank you Thomas. I actually learn a lot with your imputs. Sometimes when I exit the cinema theater I feel overly fascinated with what I just saw but I cannot finish to ground my thoughts. Dune being a primary example of this.
And then I come here, listen to you and watch your videos, and everything makes sense. It's like mi brain says "Oh right, THAT'S why I loved this"
dude youre truly one of the best on here right now, sometimes video essays have this feeling that they just want to praise and not teach. you teach me new ideas everytime
Even with Dune part 2, the VFX never took me out of the experience or immersion. Not once did I think "Oh this is a CGI scene." or "did they do that practically?" I was just allowed to be immersed in the cinema.
This was great. I never liked most of the DC/Marvel visual effects, and now I know why. It's always cool when directors decide to do things as "real" as possible. Two of my favorite films are Mad Max: Fury Road and Ronin. Both directors tried to use as much "real life" footage as possible and you can really feel the kinetic energy, and see and "feel" the difference onscreen. Obviously with super hero stuff it's a lot more difficult, but I will check out Dune now. Didn't have much interest before this.
The subtle importance of lighting can be seen easily in video games. especially in older titles that have received recent updates, or fan made updates to their lighting. Its amazing how just making the light sources and reflections more realistic can go a long way towards making a setting more immersive. I wish that as an artist myself that I had much better control of lighting I just can't see it as well as I would like.
Wow! Could you give some names?
@@softwartist I think Wind Waker VS Wind Waker HD is one of the best examples of this, even if it is going for a cartoonish look.
I loved how when you were showing Duke Leto flying an ornithopter while talking about grounded vfx, you’d switch to Poe Dameron flying an X-wing. Very similar scenes with the same actor but so different
I love this video breakdown. It's so great and informative.
It also reminds me of why I'll also continue rooting for a director like Neill Blomkamp to keep coming back. The way he used VFX for both 'District 9' and 'Elysium', was to me, the textbook example of how to properly utilize the combination of digital and practical imagery. It's interesting, the way Villeneuve shot the Ornithopters for Dune is pretty much exactly how Blomkamp shot the Raven VFX for 'Elysium' during the landfill heist sequence.
This video also reminds me of why I feel bad for James Cameron in terms of what he wanted to bring to the blockbuster forefront in 2009 with 'Avatar'. Not only was 3D poorly utilized by following filmmakers for several years after -- completely butchering the intent of what he was trying to do with that medium -- but his use of simul-cam motion-capture, and 3D-rendered environments, was also pissed away by studios like Marvel Studios and LucasFilm. What the content creators for Marvel and LucasFilm forgot, is that when Cameron created digital worlds like he did with 'Avatar', he created an entire ecosystem that not only functioned properly within the world of Pandora he created, but it also had a real flare for definitive art direction. As technologically dependent as Cameron has always been, it's ALWAYS been for the right reasons. It's a shame that James Cameron has put so much effort into pushing the boundaries of what's possible with VFX technology since the day he broke into filmmaking, only for following filmmakers to piss away his efforts by not properly using or understanding why he was trying to push those technologies forward to begin with.
Say what you want to about 'Avatar' as a film, but its visuals still feel like a wholly crafted world. Compare to that to say, the final act of 'Shang-Chi', and look at how flat, lifeless, and desaturated the 3D environments are during the final action sequences of that film. To call it lazy would be too simple. It's just downright cheap and uninspired.
I also thought some of this too but not this detailed. I think it could easily have been fast-cut, flashy, and over the top action sequences in someone else's direction. But yeah, it was refreshing to have great shots linger on the screen for more than a second.
There were many full CG shots in this movie but it's the art direction and great story telling that never distracted you from the movie which is why you never realized how much CG this movie has. Because you can pause on many parts of the movie and instantly find out CG shots in a lot of cases but you are not going to pause because the movie is soo good.
Although having practical lights adds a lot of ground for later adding explosions of other light sources, it can often makes thing even more difficult if things are not synced, then you'd have to do more extra work instead of not having lights to begin with.
Probably the biggest reason why they had sand screen instead of green and blue are reflections and indirect lighting. Usually if you have green or blue screens, you'd have to replace the reflections and the green spill in post but in this case it looks natural because in the movie, the sand screen basically works as reflections of the desert and the color matches (with some manipulation) with the desert as well but people are not realizing that how much of a nightmare it was since sand screens are basically the same tone as skin so they couldn't key anything probably and had to manually roto everything. BRUHH.