How Marathon Built Halo

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 114

  • @Fenrick
    @Fenrick  Місяць тому +103

    Kind of kicking myself for forgetting this, but the final goodbye message from Bungie, in Reach, is "See ya starside," - a Marathon quote. Definitely noteworthy

    • @nosidenoside2458
      @nosidenoside2458 Місяць тому +4

      I googled it and "see you starside" is at the end of reach's credits apparently

    • @vileshaft9730
      @vileshaft9730 Місяць тому +5

      see this makes me sad knowing Bungie left halo in 343's hands and 343 hates halo we all know this, and then Bungie gets infiltrated by EA leadership and gets ruined too.
      the halo franchise died, when Bungie left they took halo's soul with it and then they themselves rotted from the inside, Martin O'Donnel being fried is proof bungie no longer holds value as a game studio bungie took a chance letting EA be their fund source and we all know how that ended

    • @junioraltamontent.7582
      @junioraltamontent.7582 Місяць тому +2

      ​@@vileshaft9730I think it was more Microsoft infiltrating Bungie rather than EA, taking Marty's word for it at least. Pete Parsons was a Microsoft corpo originally, who took over Msoft's Bungie handling role after their usual guy retired. When the split happened, he jumped over to be part of Destiny and became studio head shortly after. That's where the robotic "slash and burn then rainbow wash with some empty social justice posturing" style comes from there.

    • @spy-ops1052
      @spy-ops1052 Місяць тому +2

      @@vileshaft9730 here's a word of advice, just because you play games doesn't mean you know anything about making them so stop talking about what you don't know about.

    • @BalthasarGelt-x2d
      @BalthasarGelt-x2d Місяць тому

      Eh, Marty also said that if you asked Jason Jones, who has run Bungie since the beginning, he would say Marty was fired because he was an asshole.

  • @Jammermaker
    @Jammermaker Місяць тому +105

    They continued the tradition of having an enemy that runs up and detonates on you in multiple ways in destiny lol

  • @The_Albino_Jackal
    @The_Albino_Jackal Місяць тому +65

    The halo 2 marine pilot helmet has a similar look to the helmet from marathon. It even has the exposed mouth, but the lenses aren’t as bug-eyed

    • @deadpan2866
      @deadpan2866 Місяць тому +8

      i have no proof but it might of been changed for legal reasons. in halo CE the pilot helmet is a 1 for 1 copy of the pilot helmet from the ghost in the shell films

    • @ChronoWarrior1996
      @ChronoWarrior1996 Місяць тому

      Kinda looks like the helmets/gear from Aliens too ​@@deadpan2866

    • @tekgeekster
      @tekgeekster Місяць тому

      That's because it's a direct homage ​@Samurai_2552

  • @BalthasarGelt-x2d
    @BalthasarGelt-x2d Місяць тому +3

    I think Myth was a large influence on Halo as well, in its militaristic tone, wide open naturalistic environments, gameplay elements like the “golden triangle” of melee, ranged weapons, and grenades, and story elements like the Flood being similar to the Fallen Lords (an army of undead lead by an ancient being.)

  • @greenbucket4389
    @greenbucket4389 Місяць тому +45

    Legendary H3 ending implies Halo was a prequel to Marathon.

    • @noddy1973
      @noddy1973 Місяць тому +8

      Oh? How so?

    • @greenbucket4389
      @greenbucket4389 Місяць тому +26

      @@noddy1973 Post credits. Before Requiem was Requiem it had a big ass Marathon symbol on it

    • @NeightrixPrime
      @NeightrixPrime Місяць тому +2

      This is my canon.

    • @noddy1973
      @noddy1973 Місяць тому +1

      @@greenbucket4389 holy , missed it on my first legendary playthrough but now I see it god damn

    • @Freelancer837
      @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +6

      No it does not. The Marathon symbol on the planet at the end is no different than the 700 other times they used the Marathon symbol throughout Halo. And the shot of the cutscene is no different than how the intro to Halo CE was also a reference to Marathon in the same way. They are not and never were directly connected in the same universe.

  • @tyler3176
    @tyler3176 Місяць тому +5

    imagine a universe where halo came out in the 90's with marathons graphics and marathon got the fully 3D treatment and had sequels on the 360

  • @drakescakes5629
    @drakescakes5629 Місяць тому +6

    Marathon would’ve flourished and been remembered universally as one of the greats if it was on windows. Multiplayer had many of the things that halo brought mainstream. Being on mac gave it the label now as “ahead of its time” because most gamers didn’t experience it. I love doom and marathon for different reasons but Marathon definitely excelled in storytelling and multiplayer which unfortunately wasn’t a huge thing until the early 2000 for the average player.

    • @BalthasarGelt-x2d
      @BalthasarGelt-x2d Місяць тому

      The biggest compliment I’ve seen given to Marathon was an Id fanboy saying “this is just a copy of Quake with crappy graphics!” Not realizing that Marathon came out years before Quake.

    • @atifarshad7624
      @atifarshad7624 26 днів тому

      ​@@BalthasarGelt-x2dwell today you might see a bigger one.
      I am id fanboy and I say that Marathon trilogy is one of the greatest fps series of all time. It has the best story I have ever come across in a sci fi series, probably on par or even better than Mass Effect trilogy.

  • @SilverViper1000
    @SilverViper1000 Місяць тому +29

    You didn't mention that the pipe of Keyes in the opening scene also had the marathon logo on it. I just discovered this 2 days ago. Playing he game for over 20 years now and it still keeps surprising me.

    • @nathanrobson5734
      @nathanrobson5734 Місяць тому

      Why you gotta call me out on yesterday’s news bruh?

  • @HugoBFood
    @HugoBFood Місяць тому +4

    Had to stop the video not even halfway through to say "holy shit this is the best video I've watched in a minute".
    Just started playing Halo again after years and this really brought me back to reading "The Art of Halo" on Christmas morning.
    Just wanted to say I'm glad I found your channel, and thanks for the super nostalgic vibe all around! Definitely got me inspired to do something of my own again.

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +1

      Really appreciate that - good luck - I'd say go for it.

  • @Freelancer837
    @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +5

    The Marathon logo was ALWAYS the symbol of Reclaimer in Halo. Even in the Bungie games. In Halo: Contact Harvest (written by the lead Halo writer, released in 2008), the Covenant see Harvest covered in upside-down Marathon logos on their Forerunner luminary device that shows Forerunner relics. But when the three prophets speak to Mendicant Bias, he calls them idiots, tells them that they've mistranslated, flips the glyph upside down to show the Marathon logo as we know and love, before explaining to them that it doesn't mean "Reclamation", it means "Reclaimer" and those it represents are its makers (AKA Forerunners/Humans). It was never only a UNSC symbol, it was always a HUMANS symbol, which is why it was always all over Human and Forerunner things everywhere, as you even pointed out all of the Forerunner places/things that contain the Marathon logo.

  • @Aegxs
    @Aegxs Місяць тому +17

    In Halo CE, Chief had been referred to as a Cyborg in the chapter titles for missions and I recall that Chief is referred to as a “Mark V” by marines. Which is strange that someone would refer to the armor and not a “Mark V cyborg”

    • @Espartanica
      @Espartanica Місяць тому +7

      "Bad Cyborg!" is a line from the Grunts too

    • @jeantoor7103
      @jeantoor7103 Місяць тому +8

      Not to mention that if you shoot captain Keyes at Pillar of Autumn's bridge, Cortana will broadcast alert message:
      "Master Chief is rampant", implying that he is indeed cyborg suspected in AI rampancy. Also she says "your architecture is not different from the Autumn's", which is also strange line if she means his armor.

    • @Freelancer837
      @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +3

      Originally, Chief was just a "Mark 5 Cyborg" back when Halo was a Marathon game. The Security Officer from the Marathon games was a Mark 4 Cyborg, so Chief and them were upgrades. Some of that dialogue still remains, and they used it, now with the change being that Chief is still a cyborg, but now his armor is just a Mark 5 variant of armor instead after they stopped being a Marathon game.

    • @Freelancer837
      @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +2

      @@jeantoor7103 Master Chief being a cyborg is no secret and has always been canon.

    • @Espartanica
      @Espartanica Місяць тому

      @@Freelancer837 Unless the Covenant were in Marathon, I'm pretty sure that Bungie as well intended the series to be its own thing but with nods to their previous work.

  • @pjorgen
    @pjorgen Місяць тому +8

    Great video man, I remember trying Marathon on PC after hearing about it from halo. Could never save all those damn civilians lol. That room ended my run.

  • @thecosmicentity5597
    @thecosmicentity5597 Місяць тому +3

    One I've noticed recently is in the Library, one of the wall holograms is very similar to the map of the rose in Marathon 1. Pretty strange reference and very subtle reference if it even is one.

  • @Freelancer837
    @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +2

    Mendicant Bias' rampancy process is the exact same as Marathon's rampancy. Mendicant Bias was specifically already in the first stage of Melancholy because of his position basically dictating which Forerunners get to live and which ones die. The Flood tricked him into the second stage of Anger, and aimed him at his makers, the Forerunners, to get him to the Flood's side. And at the end of it all in the present day, when he speaks to Master Chief directly, he's gained his metastability and has reached true selfawareness/personhood. That's why throughout the terminals, Mendicant Bias is referred to as "it" but when he speaks to you directly at the end, Mendicant Bias goes by "he" and such.

  • @MobileManagement
    @MobileManagement Місяць тому +6

    Happily surprised that the algorithm pulled your vid into my feed - Risk

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому

      There's a name I haven't seen in a while - good to hear from you

  • @shreksnow1918
    @shreksnow1918 Місяць тому +22

    That was really interesting. Definitely need to get around to playing through the trilogy (Bungie should’ve just remade the trilogy instead of making a soulless live service set in Marathon’s world). It’s pretty crazy just how much Marathon influenced Halo. I was unaware of a lot of these.
    A few connections you didn’t mention relate to cut content. The Drinols/Sharquois that sadly cot cut form CE/2 originated in Marathon, at one point in 2 you were supposed to fight fungal zombies that change the way the game’s played (their concept art looks just like the Flood’s art in CE). There’s concept art for guns in CE that look like they belong in Marathon, Also, a lot of the Macworld weapons, armor, and vehicles look like what you’d expect Marathon stuff to look like in 3D.

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +8

      The Drinniols and especially the Fungal Zombies were something I was thinking about. I'd actually recorded a tidbit about the fungal zombies but ultimately decided to focus more on what we really see in both games.
      As for a remake, hm. Honestly the live service experience they're making is probably the one of the worst things that could have been done with the marathon name, haha. But I'd probably find myself frustrated with a remake at this point too, though I'd definitely be more interested in giving it a chance.

    • @Espartanica
      @Espartanica Місяць тому +3

      The rilogy was recently ported to Steam, for free, by fans, if you wanna play a version updated for modern hardware

  • @pallasanubis6471
    @pallasanubis6471 Місяць тому +1

    In post Bungie Halo, there still are some cool references/observations you can find in the series (even if they aren't as concrete).
    An example is the security helmet in Infinite, which was specifically designed to locate/defend locations against A.I.
    Another example is lore about the Drinniol/Sharquoi. In Marathon, it is mentioned that a Phfor scientist tried to implement a cybernetic implant into the species but failed. In Halo, the Foreunners did the same thing but were successful.
    A last example is some Halo Infinite concept art of The Harbringer, depicting her wearing a cloak that gives her a striking resemblance to the S'pht.

  • @optomysticartist7768
    @optomysticartist7768 Місяць тому +14

    Whatttt I started playing halo at 5 yrs old back in 2003 and never knew that marathon was an old game I thought it was just a new game coming out nevermind know that it was an old game made by bungie b4 halo came outtttt🤯🤯 I gotta play it nowwwwwwwww

    • @kettleworks
      @kettleworks Місяць тому +2

      if you play games on steam, all of the marathon games are available for free on there now

  • @jasperfox6821
    @jasperfox6821 Місяць тому +18

    Annoyingly I think Microsoft want to exterminartus every instance of Marathon and the logo from halo 😢

    • @Espartanica
      @Espartanica Місяць тому +4

      Probably for legal reasons

    • @jeantoor7103
      @jeantoor7103 Місяць тому +1

      It was like that from the very beginning, that is why Microsoft pushed release of The Fall of Reach novel despite Bungie protests, and this book pretty much retconned all Marathon connection even before he was released.

    • @MasterFrag91
      @MasterFrag91 Місяць тому +1

      Microsoft doesn't own the Marathon IP, that went with Bungie, and the Marathon logo is part of that IP, so they had to scrub it, unfortunately.

  • @tsunderemerc2963
    @tsunderemerc2963 Місяць тому +2

    In Bungie's canon, rampancy in AI is much closer to how its portrayed in Marathon where an AI reaches full sentience and behaves just like humans, as well as their pitfalls. This is what happens to Mendicant Bias, and how it's explained in Contact Harvest too
    The golden (sometimes white) secret elites in Reach were also called BOBs

  • @robertwhelan6976
    @robertwhelan6976 Місяць тому +1

    Awesome video 10/10. I always love these discussions of the original halo lore and Bungie's seemingly intertwined universes with their old games.

  • @timothyhoneycutt3895
    @timothyhoneycutt3895 Місяць тому +6

    Thank you for making this. In a world swallowed by nonsense it's so enjoyable to be here with you to appreciate these IPs.

  • @yubasutterdroneguy1433
    @yubasutterdroneguy1433 Місяць тому +1

    Halo was originally debuted at the 1999 Mac Expo, running on a Macintosh under the title marathon (Marathon4)… it was at this Expo that Bill Gates bought bungee, forever changing the story arch

  • @Freelancer837
    @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +3

    13:49 The Covenant don't really have almost ANY AI's on purpose because AI's were the downfall of the Forerunners. Which, ironically, the AI responsible for that IS the AI that Cortana is referencing in this dialogue. She's not up against a Covenant AI, she's up against a Forerunner AI.

  • @sluggerbutter
    @sluggerbutter Місяць тому +3

    i’d argue the motion tracker thing was pulled from aliens if u compare ce tracker to the one from aliens it’s pretty similar

  • @KurtyMurdi
    @KurtyMurdi Місяць тому +4

    loved this video bro, was fascinating to learn all of it, beautiful storytelling bro, you and bungie!
    would u ever consider doing a video about the Alien movies' influence on halo? i imagine it'd be a shorter video, but it could be lots of fun

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +1

      Hmm, maybe. There's a bit more than you'd think but not a whole whole lot.

  • @NemesisOgreKing
    @NemesisOgreKing 23 дні тому +2

    Regardless, where Microsoft/343 went with Halo and with how Bungie handed Destiny (most of the devs that worked on Halo left long ago and being quietly dismantled by Sony now). One bullet was dodged to be hit by another. Halo and Marathon are remnants of two different eras in history.
    Halo just become a soulless brand. Marathon is just a nostalgic name Bungie's pulling out of mothballs now that the Destiny grift has ran its course.

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  23 дні тому +1

      Pretty much agree with you there.

  • @SR-388
    @SR-388 Місяць тому +4

    well made vid fenrick!

  • @WOLKO.
    @WOLKO. Місяць тому +3

    Best video you've made yet. Keep up the great work man

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +2

      Thanks a lot man, glad to see you're still following the channel

  • @mos4434
    @mos4434 Місяць тому +1

    Marathon was what made Halo possible, similar to how Halo Reach was what made Destiny possible...
    (ie OG Bungie tested new features in their established franchises before jumping to a new franchise to figure out what works)

  • @OpossumFan
    @OpossumFan Місяць тому

    This has really given me the kick in the pants to go play the marathon games. I've been playing the new Doom port and I just finished Blood for the first time, it'll be interesting to see how they compare

  • @tomtheconqerur
    @tomtheconqerur Місяць тому +3

    Remember that many of the retcons in Halo regarding the forerunners are due to most of 343's management and writers either not being familiar with or outright hating the setting due to not being like most other sci-fi. These guys were hired because some of 343's management thought they would provide a "Fresh Look" on the setting except a handful including Frank O Conner though I doubt the guy had little to no actual power in the studio. This results in an infestation of pseudo-intellectual generic sci-fi fans in the Halo community(making a community that is already known to get very toxic now devolved into heated debates over good games and 343 slop) thanks to Greg Bear's novels which then started a clusterfuck of the setting that has gotten so bad that 343 rebranded itself after the old dumbass management left the studio and the new management deciding to do a reboot of the setting starting with a remake of CE. I do have hope that the "new" studio stays more true to old Bungie's intentions with the setting such as humans being forerunners while mixing some elements in from the 343 era such as the didact being a scared war vet from the flood war.

    • @kenl659
      @kenl659 Місяць тому +2

      The fact you have "hope" in the "new" studio means you learned nothing in the past 2 decades.

  • @Freelancer837
    @Freelancer837 Місяць тому +1

    I wouldn't say Marathon didn't leave its mark on the gaming industry. It was THE reason to game on Apple Mac. It was Apple's response to DOOM on Microsoft PCs. It didn't "inspire" mostly because it wasn't all that different from DOOM/Quake in the first place. The only things it largely did that DOOM didn't was a heavy focus on story and momentum. Momentum didn't stick around too much outside of Halo mostly as it wasn't as simplistic. But the heavy story focus of Marathon became very prominent, making its way into Half-Life and basically every game nowadays.

  • @cvstlebeats
    @cvstlebeats Місяць тому +1

    Great video dude - insane research.

  • @ABenAbides
    @ABenAbides 29 днів тому

    6:23 I can feel my finger twitching watching that Halo CE plasma pistol gameplay 😅

  • @christophermiller8381
    @christophermiller8381 Місяць тому +2

    Find yourself
    Starting back

  • @jakethealright
    @jakethealright Місяць тому +2

    great video!

  • @seldoonnemar4459
    @seldoonnemar4459 Місяць тому

    fantastic video ! i wish fans got a peak behind the curtain from Jason and Joseph and the rest of the big wigs at that era of bungie to see where the divergence from marathon happened. i wonder if there are that many references or parallels in destiny (as far as im aware the most obvious one was the lore tied to the MIDA multi-tool scout rifle)

    • @BalthasarGelt-x2d
      @BalthasarGelt-x2d Місяць тому

      In Destiny, there are backstory characters named the Gardener and Winnower who essentially are Yrro and Pthia.

  • @TheBoneHeadClan
    @TheBoneHeadClan Місяць тому

    I really enjoyed the video I'm interested in seeing references to other bungee games in the HALO Series

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +2

      There weren't quite as many in others. The most notable thing is probably that "Heroic" and "Legendary" difficulty names came from Myth.

    • @TheBoneHeadClan
      @TheBoneHeadClan Місяць тому

      @Fenrick That's interesting I didn't know that.
      Mythic, as in Mythic Skull or Mythic Map Pack, comes from Myth. Sp do the difficulties of Heroic & Legendary. There is also a lot of music from Myth in Halo.
      Action Sack was a literal sack of Bungie Games for Mac. They gave that to the name of a special playlist.
      ONI became Office of Naval Intelligence.
      Obviously you covered Marathon.
      Idk what else off of the top of my head, but I bet there's quite a lot of bits and bobs.

  • @madcat789
    @madcat789 20 днів тому

    Marathon wasn't merely the one that set the groundwork for Halo: Halo IS Marathon.

  • @JanoschNr1
    @JanoschNr1 Місяць тому

    Damn wow ... that was a real eye opener! ... I ... iI think I can see the binary now!

  • @BigGainer98
    @BigGainer98 Місяць тому +2

    This video is fur gainer approved.

  • @tylerurian
    @tylerurian 29 днів тому

    Well done 👏👏👏

  • @TJ_ax
    @TJ_ax Місяць тому

    Marathon is such an incredible series especially for the time. I try to play the series every 5 years or so, it’s also a shame that Bungie is most likely going to completely butcher the remake

  • @FLManTM
    @FLManTM Місяць тому +1

    this nerd is pretty cool

  • @Beanszo
    @Beanszo Місяць тому

    You should analyze the trailer for the new Marathon game to see how many of the og themes are referenced there. I guess it’d be an interesting way of determining if bungie still has the will to create this deep lore imbedded in games, or if it is long gone… could be a way to preemptively see if the game will be good just based off of that

  • @FartlebySockchuckerThe4th
    @FartlebySockchuckerThe4th Місяць тому

    Bee Cede Malis; one universe informs the Other; Judges 14 :14: Thirty Hurty Philistines from Asklon can't be wrong.

  • @nathanrobson5734
    @nathanrobson5734 Місяць тому +1

    I ate my own head

  • @unx74
    @unx74 Місяць тому +1

    I FUCKING LOVE MARATHON!!!!!!!

  • @Aristocles22
    @Aristocles22 24 дні тому

    Bungie trying to remake Marathon is even more "backwards" than them trying to go back to Halo. It's like, they want to make Halo again, but they can't, due to selling the rights to Microsoft.

  • @optomysticartist7768
    @optomysticartist7768 Місяць тому +1

    I thought those symbols were just guilty spark lol

  • @MetaITurtle
    @MetaITurtle Місяць тому

    I noticed the "O" in Halo also has a small Marathon logo but sideways. Also this makes me wonder, is Halo CE not actually Halo 1?? 🤔

  • @Nico-qx1zx
    @Nico-qx1zx Місяць тому

    MOMMY FENRICK!!!!

  • @jadetortellini6150
    @jadetortellini6150 Місяць тому +1

    The fact that Halo follows so closely the formula they used for Marathon makes the new Marathon being an extraction shooter feel even worse. I was hoping against all hope when I first heard about Marathons reboot that it would be like halo. With a campaign, multiplayer, firefight style mode. I’m just hoping whatever story it has is good

  • @yert5035
    @yert5035 Місяць тому +4

    copyright doesn't change reality. for example bloodborne is clearly the painted world you make in ds3 using an item called the blood of the dark soul...which you then take to the painter who then paints a world with the blood of the dark soul..... hence the name BLOODBORNE. sony found out and is spiting fans and fromsoft by refusing to release bloodborne. in their hubris they propelled ps4 emulation by like 20 years. devs secretly connect their stories to retain some ownership over their story. why does sony have all the money to fund games and then claim ownership because of said funding? the workers made that money but it all goes to sony who then has more money to fund games...go down the line of these businesses far enough you go from wage slave to chattel slaves and feudal slaves. so they are funding the devs with the devs own money.... and they get away because of the abstract nature in which the theft occurred.

  • @retropwned
    @retropwned 23 дні тому

    lolz@look there's a marathon logo

  • @LinkiePup
    @LinkiePup Місяць тому +1

    And you know whats sad?
    The modern Marathon is going to be a piece of junk.
    It really feels like after Reach, Bungie never got anywhere close to making another Halo.
    It’s almost like the Halo series was a point of no return for Bungie. A point in history that they won’t ever be able to return too.
    It’s sad… really…

    • @Fenrick
      @Fenrick  Місяць тому +1

      Yeah, I am not looking forward to whatever they might end up doing.

    • @JohnWilliams-wl9px
      @JohnWilliams-wl9px Місяць тому +1

      It really was they left Microsoft to get away from a strict publisher only to go to Activision a publisher with a worst track record.
      Then the story they write for the game got changed, and Marty having a fallen out causing him to leave the studio.

  • @user-73a
    @user-73a Місяць тому +1

    Hopefully the new Marathon isn't woke.

    • @margotpreston
      @margotpreston Місяць тому

      Please shut it with your culture war snowflakery. We don’t want that shit here.

  • @seff6533
    @seff6533 Місяць тому

    The title should actually be "how bungie just ripped off marathon because they aren't good with coming up with unique naratives"

    • @LedZedd
      @LedZedd Місяць тому +10

      ...But They came up with the Marathon narrative. Lol

    • @seff6533
      @seff6533 Місяць тому

      @@LedZedd which was just re-used for halo.

    • @jaredbryant8297
      @jaredbryant8297 Місяць тому +1

      @@seff6533are you a fool?

    • @jaredbryant8297
      @jaredbryant8297 Місяць тому +1

      Are you a fool?

    • @Samurai-jakk
      @Samurai-jakk Місяць тому +2

      @@seff6533well I assume they inserted those callbacks to marathon in Halo CE because it was the foundation of there company. Then when Halo became a worldwide hit. They probably thought that the story of marathon could be told to a wider audience. With some changes here and there. Because of all the people who played CE and knew about marathon was very small. Don’t be salty