" In International Relations Theory, there's only one principle that I know of... That's the Mafia principle: International relations is very much like the Mafia, the Godfather does not accept disobedience..." -Noam Chomsky.
Mr Chomsky, when referring to Germany and Croatia in The Second World War, is referring to the religio-fascist *Ustaše* These people committed such horrid atrocities that the *Nazis* of all people objected to the brutality. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe
My family was living in Hungary Milinsk at that time. Ustase was metioned by SS soliders as being brutal. My family were in the Soviet camps so many parished there. They were sold out in Operation keehaul, by the allied forces, who turned them back when fleeing tothe Austrian boarders, and allowed Russia to put them in camps once again an take thier land and give it to the Serbs. We were know as Danschwibian people. What a turbulent and horrible time for Eastern Europe. Read;"TheTolstoy Agreement" by: Lenard Tolstory
@@Myhasleful :: The unbelievable horrors of The History of US Slavery seems to pale by the side of what Europeans have done to other Europeans -- for so many, many Centuries.
@@cliffgaither you're missing one fact. Slavery in the US was one of Europe's crimes. Like the genocide of the Indigenous people whose land you live on. Or who I live on in Australia. Or the horrors of the Belgian Congo. The famines in India and China. The rape of Japan. The destruction of North Korea.
Yugoslavia was sold out from the inside, the war was that of the Oligarchies rise to power. Listen to Mikael Gorbachev BBC talk, its about the break up of the Soviet Union, they almost ended up in a civil war, for the same reason as Yugoslavia. The privatization of Socialist States means lots of money either to the people, who own everything or a lucky few, who steal everything.
@@abraxadabra4224 IMO it's because of modern tech, a much stronger system, and a streak of great leaders (Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao, Xi Jinping). China has managed to make a stable environment through the infamous Chinese firewall and surveillance state, inside a system in which the importance of merchants (billionaires) is almost non-existent while promoting a strong work ethic "Merchants were considered the lowest social class in Ancient China. People believed that they did not contribute to the good of the whole society but only worked for their own gain. ... The government looked down upon the merchants and tried to stop them from making big profits in times of shortages.". A view COMPLETELY IN OPPOSITION to American individualism where billionaires are job creators without whom the world would stop turning. And lastly, the country has had great leaders, great as in giving vision to the nation while prioritizing its development.
I also go often as I have friends in all parts of Yugoslavia...People had mostly recovered after the bloody uncivil war and now have 7 different countries... I left there in 1971 after finishing University of Zagreb..
I wish that the different republics could have worked out their differences without violence. Depressing end to Yugoslavia and all the lives destroyed.
@@josipag2185 The Europeans have been a destructive force since the UK empire started to form,, long before WW2. And continuing. What an evil breed we are.
@@josipag2185 Josipa 1 BBBBB ShShSh .Big one.Talking like one who never heard of Marx !!!!!!!Yugoslavian people was the same tribe from Russia .Later various Satanic empires Divided them into Catholics Muslims Orthodox...Serbs Croats Slavonians...And Pitting them against each other....The same like tribes in Africa....Latin ''Divide et Impera'' German tribes were killing each other though centuries TOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!No one imposed ''divide'' on them YET .Hahahahahahahahahahaahah
@@josipag2185 Josipa 2 BS .....'''. And later they were allies with comunist Yugoslavia and with Russia '''----------------??????????????????????????????????????? The should have been allies of NAZIS??????????LIKE TODAY IN UKR!!!!!!!!!!!Are you USTASA?
@@manueldros :: I agree, not that it matters ! But just think of the exchanges people have ( had ) from all over the World. Learning about other people ; other histories ; other opinions ; other cultures ; other customs ... These kinds of Domestic & International Exchanges is one of the Great Advances of this Century. Massive Populations communicating -- all over the World -- it cannot sit well w / those who have had so much exclusive power for so long ...
@@cliffgaither Getting into a discussion and learning about the wonders of the world and people are two separate things I think. I've never seen a fruitful discussion on youtube where people respect each others character and thinking ways. Maybe somewhere else on the internet, some Reddit pages, but on UA-cam I havent found it sadly
@@manueldros :: Maybe I spend too much time on YT. I had a flip-up phone for a long time. I didn't want to end up like people I saw on the streets w / their phones. Then I got a "smart" phone & discovered YT had existed for 10yrs. before I discovered it. Now, w / so very many sources of information & opinions, I'm just like other people w / this damn phone ! I've found many respectable exchanges & opinions, especially the exchanges of historical events. People will be respectful if you meet them half-way, unless they are just unreasonable. You haven't found any yet ? Maybe you have better things to do than hold a phone up to your face -- 24 / 7. 😄
"It was Yugoslavia's resistance to the broader trends of political and economic reform-not the plight of Kosovar Albanians-that best explains NATO's war." John Norris - Collision Course ( the book Chomsky talks about )
On the contrary. Kosovo was the main trigger because of the refugees. The west knew that the majority of those refugees would have ended in EU and considering that about 2 millions of them, as a product of wars in Croatia and Bosnia, were already in EU, that scenario had to be prevented. They simply bombed Serbia just to prevent new refugee wave.
@@jackylaibach2351yes on humanitarian grounds only not because they supported the right of a people for self-determination. Also to prevent the conflict from escalating to Albania which would involve surely major powers into violent antagonists too. The way he simplifies this into mafia principle is downplaying the complicated history of the region. Sure mafia principle may be part of USA foreign interventions but not the sole drive on this case. It may have compounded into the other elements. And it's not like Serbia was not begging for that kind of principle either
@Cassius are you actually saying that number of refugees from Bosnia and Croatia after wars in those countries was minuscule? Again,there was already more than 2 million refugees from those countries in EU when bombing of Serbia started.
@Cassius am not confusing anything because in 99 there were still huge numbers of refugees from Bosnia and Croatia and my point was that bombing has been undertaken partly in order to avoid second huge wave of refugees this time from Kosovo.
Poor innocent people that died! May they Rest In Peace. As for the people that were in power on all sides shame on all of you for letting so many innocent people lose there life’s and all the people affected by the war itself. Pray that future generations can learn to live together in peace. Having hate in your heart is a very bad thing to live with.
I strongly propose Mr Chomsky open an ASMR channel, since his voice is quite peaceful and well toned and maintained. Or maybe im simply tired of researching the Yugoslavia collapse background.
DOUBLESPEAK - "make war to stop war" - "put guns in schools to keep guns out of schools" - "give tax money and tax breaks to the rich to help the poor" - "patriot act (read it)" - "capital punishment to show that murder is wrong" - "get rid of the EPA and deregulate polluters to make the world a better place" - "get rid of ethics committees, they are not ethical" - "deregulate banks and companies so they can do BETTER, lol"
george orwell Give everyone a million dollars and we'll all be rich! Doublespeak goes both ways. Ironic considering your namesake, Animal Farm and 1984 were written as criticisms of Communism. Orwell coined terms like doublespeak to illustrate the way INGSOC controlled people through language, just like the Soviets who INGSOC is based upon. Things Soviets liked: high taxes, a disarmed and indoctrinated public Whats wrong with "making war to stop war"? If a neighboring country invades yours, the only way you can stop it is by warring back. Or surrending and hope you aren't slaughtered. Making war to stop war is pretty common throughout history. How would we have stopped Hitler without making war? I'm not sure what point you're making other than some vague sentiment against specific policies you dont like so you strawman them.
+ 200% SMUG How do you know that George Orwell wrote Animal Farm and 1984 as criticism of communism ?We live in 1984 right now and America has capitalism .
Chomsky 5:18 onwards: "With all the fancy talk in International Relations Theory, there's only one principle that I know of it seems to me to have any merit and that's the Mafia principle. International relations is very much like the Mafia. The Godfather does not accept disobedience." Analogy - "Suppose some small storekeeper that doesn't pay his protection money, well the Godfather doesn't just send out his goons to pick up the money, he sends out the goons to beat him to a pulp so that others will understand that disobedience is not acceptable."
It doesnt have anything with croat german union wtf and america didnt work to keep yugoslavia one country why did the president of the USA at that time made a law and forbid all investors not to give yugoslavia financial help unless countries seperate from the original goverment. You put way too much time and effort talking about war and not who made it possible and who actually started it. I'll give you a hint it aint one of the yugoslav countries
Well to be frank it wasn't Clinton who "made a law", it was the IMF who was promising the secessionist governments to be exonerated from Yugoslav national debt if they seceded... But what the secessionist governments didn't know was that in order to secede, they would have to spend money (i.e borrow from IMF) on resources for the military since the Serbs weren't dumb to just part away from their own military resources in the pursue of peace. I think the largest contributor to the conflict was former Yugoslav president Tito, because 1. He made a platform for the secessionist governments on which they can work on; 2. He didn't successfully resolve the post WWII wounds in the country; 3. He did the same thing Merkel does now with Germany (Funny how history repeats), by allowing large amount of Albanian immigrants to Kosovo and forcing the Serbs out (because they were more expensive than Albanians), and hoping that would improve the Kosovar economy (Just look at the stats of GDP in former Yugoslavia, Kosovo had the smallest economy before the breakup, lol), it was inevitable that the Kosovars rise after giving them partial Autonomy, because they lived in the poorest conditions in the country; 4. He also contributed in the Bosnian conflict, by giving the Muslim population an identity calling them "The Muslim population" (therefore giving them a platform to seek independence from Croats and Serbs as well); I do agree that US contributed to the war but not by stirring up the country to conflict, but rather by cutting the foreign aid the US was giving to Yugoslavia (Around $3 billion dollars in the period of the cold war, which boosted Yugoslavia's position in the region), just because the Cold war ended. The way to avoid conflict, is to wait for reforms in the country and gradually decrease the aid. Not just cutting it off, because the country went into hyper inflation after that (And the politicians were ready to make some reforms before it as well). I hope I made myself clear here. Have a nice day!
5 років тому+4
This is an outstanding point, some of it I never heard of. How old are you and where are you from? I guess USA?
@IcantSeeReplies Milosevic did revive the nationalism, but only to gain power. He did not start the wars. In Slovenia, it was the Slovenians. In Croatia, it was Croats, and in Bosnia it was the Muslims. Just look at the Zadar crystal night in May 1991. Hundreds of Serbian shops, houses and apartments demolished and stolen. Serbs from Zadar were lucky to get out alive. And then 2 days later, protests in Split. The mob tries to pull out a soldier from a tank, and kill him. The fact that no civilian blood was spilt that day did not stop the war. Croats got what they wanted. An ethnically clean state. I just don't understand why they are still so hysterical. Could it be the guilt?
Thank you Noam for simplifying a complicated issue. I would just like to add that where you have a mix of different religious groups and ethnicity it is always easier to divide and conquer. One thing is for certain that what goes around comes around. The breakdown of international law is the greatest undoing of mankind and a horrific future will unfold.
It's actually oversimplified to the extent he said few straight forward lies. There was never 30% Serbians in Croatia. Not even Milosevic used that kind of lie as an excuse for war. There weren't even 10% except for many who settled in SR Croatia during Yugoslavia but without permanent residence.
Actually not so complicated... US have always been orchestrated every conflict since WW2. We can simply look at "who owns what" in former Yugoslavia, today.
Got to love the dupes who support all the interventions always for "humanitarianism". At least we in Greece didn't get duped and we almost all of us (95%) supported Yugoslavia against the American and NATO slaughter.
Some Greeks did volunteer and fought with Serbia and our soldiers refused to aid in any way the Americans. For that they are honored by everyone who opposes imperialism and war. As for the despicable Clinton and America they didn't give a fuck about the Bosnians or anyone (which is a myth that they were in danger in the first place) they only wanted to destroy Yugoslavia to replace it with tinny puppet states which unfortunately came to pass.
The opposite happened, it was thrown to the wolfs who collaborated with the German and Italian fascists while those on the resistance were hunted down. The so called "democratic" western bourgeoisie embraced the fascists with open arms when faced with the possibility of people's rule. They took the political and economic leadership those who in the occupation were the black marketeers and black hooded collaborators who betrayed the heroes of the national resistance to the German firing squads. The absolute dregs of society which were dealt with by People's Justice in the rest of Europe in Greece they not only remained unpunished but they were rewarded as well. That is the truth about the so called "democratic" allies.
mate, whatever the Western news is feeding you is the actual propaganda 99% of the time. Whatever CNN, BBC, etc... are reporting on in a foreign country IS THE PROPAGANDA, so assume the exact opposite is the truth. @RichardMontauk
@@redgreekrevolution '' a myth that they were in danger '' say that to 100 000 dead Bosniaks you dunce, and greek volunteers participated in genocide in srebrenica btw.
Mr. Chomsky needs to educate himself better on the issue. There was unrest simmering in Yugoslavia since Serbia decided to abolish the autonomy of Kosovo. Slovenia was let go by the Serbs in order to control the federal state and subsequently the Army without which the Serbs would not have been able to perpetrate the crimes that the international organizations accuse them of. His explanation does not take into account so many other political factors. With all due respect but he sees this conflict from his small window of the so called "American Imperialism and Expansionism".
Education has nothing to do with it. Was Chomsky insufficiently educated when he wrote a slew of apologies and excuses for, and denials of, the Khmer Rouge massacres under Pol Pot? Was he insufficiently educated when he wrote that Holocaust-denier Faurisson was not antisemitic but just "an apolitical liberal"? It's just who the man is. He picks sides on the basis of who is anti-American or whom the U.S. or its allies are opposing, and that's the end of the analysis. The fake analysis which follows just amounts to twisting or suppressing any evidence or logic which contradicts the already adopted dogma.
@@thanlem2522 Clearly you are a Chomsky cult member who believes your guru is always right. It is you who is not familiar with Chomsky's obscene apologetics for the Khmer Rouge genocide, and prefer to believe the guru's lying account of what he did or didn't say. If you are genuinely interested - although I doubt it - try googling Steven Lukes Chomsky. Lukes article provides a concise summary of the outrageous, obscene things Chomsky said at the time. Since it is based almost entirely on quotes, Chomsky never replied. He likes venues where only he gets to speak, and is able to lie with impunity, as cult members like yourself applaud every sentence.
My dad worked on Belgrade airport as simple mechanic in 80 and his salary was 2000$, in 80. Everyone who worked after 2 years have received apartment from the company day worked for. Army was 4 in Europe after USSR, UK and France. There was freedom you can't imagine.
Can anyone recommend some books/documentaries/podcasts/etc that they feel have a fair and unbiased as possible view of Yugoslavia and its war? From a leftist/socialist lens as well. Thank you!
I know this was from months ago, but how could something be unbiased, and also through a lens of leftist/socialism? I might be misinterpreting what you are saying though…
@@andon9561 yeah you’re right, I worded that really stupidly. I guess there’s no such thing as unbiased, so what I’m looking for is something presented through the lens I’ve already integrated into my life and trust after thinking critically about it. I don’t want to learn about the war through a capitalist’s lens, a conservative’s lens, etc. i would still be wary of any information I read, but it would save me time as opposed to reading other things. Idk if that makes sense
@@jacksnipe9640 good recommendation on the MR article, I didnt know much about the yugoslavian dissolution but knew it heavily involved NATO, so was looking for proper education on the subject (how i ended up at this video) and found it very helpful as further reading for cutting through the western hegemonic attitudes i likely wouldve found in mainstream explanations down into the actual realpolitik reasons for the dissolution.
I remember the name of the USA Secretary of Defence, and the name of the USA Secretary of State during the Clinton Presidency. It’s good to look at their ethnic and religious background. So interesting.
I don't how people such as Noam Chomsky can deny such atrocities such as genocide especially since this guy is a Leftist and it surprises me that leftists in America support him even though Leftists hate fascism and this guy supported the last fascist regime in Europe. As an American from Ohio, I love my country, I'm a patriot, I come from a family of American war veterans, and Hungarians that fled communism. I will agree, we have done shitty things, every country has, but we've also done good things too and in this case, America along with NATO stopped a genocide in Bosnia. We prevented another one from taking place in Kosovo. I mean sure bombing Serbia without UN approval is controversial yes, but history has taught us if you stand by and do nothing, things will go from 0 to 100 really quickly. Denying that the Bosnian Genocide took place is just as bad as denying that the Holocaust never happened and it sickens me because not only do I have family that experienced WWII as a child, saw destruction and atrocities, and fled Communist Hungary, but the complete and utter ignorance of people like Chomsky denying that a genocide or any for that matter never took place despite overwhelming evidence that a genocide did take place. It especially sickens me how leftists like Chomsky demonize America, but yet turn a blind eye to countries like the former USSR, China, Cuba, etc. who are just as bad when doing shitty things if not worse.
If commiting a genocide or oppression is a condition to come and split the country apart, United States of America should be split into literally thousand separate countries
Yugoslavia was targeted because it was the last post in Europe to hold against American imperialism. US targeted Serbs in Bosnia, and then in their own country (in the name of protecting Kosovars). And with what legitimacy did NATO intervene anyway? No UNSC resolution, no Article 5 justification. There was simply no legal case.
0:34 "because I think about a third of the population of Croatia is Serbian." - It was actually 12.2.% of the population, which is about 1/8, not 1/3 of the population. 0:41 "so when Croatia pulled out, the Yugoslav army entered to try to protect the integrity of the country and the Serbian minority." - According to 1974 Yugoslav constitution: "Proceeding from the right of every nation to self-determination, including the right to secession, Yugoslavia is defined as a federal republic of equal nations and nationalities, freely united on the principle of brotherhood and unity in achieving specific and common interest. Holders of the sovereignty of nations and nationalities are the republics and provinces within its constitutional jurisdiction" -so, according to the Yugoslav constitution, individual republics had the right to secede ("Proceeding from the right of every nation to self-determination, including the right to secession... holders of the sovereignty of nations are the republics"), Croatia held a national referendum, with 83 % voter turnout, and 93% in favour of independence, so why the fuck is the Yugoslav army entering and violating the constitutional right of a republic to secede, if it is supposed that the nations are united freely, not forcefully.
There never will be as good of a country here on earth as was Yugoslavia. OK hunger after ww2, but after that, ppl were FREAKING HAPPY AND HOPEFULL. Pozdrav iz. SLOVENIJE!
One small correction should be made and noted. Chomsky on 0:38 mentions that about one third of the Croatian population were Serbs. This is incorrect. One third of Bosnian and Hercegovian population were Serbs, and that resulted in many complications and problems which led the the subsequent war, genocide and massive forceful movement of refugees. Only 10-12% of the population of Croatia identified as Serbian at the time, as oppossed to around 33% which Chomsky claims.
I generally agree with Mr. Chomsky, but he's over simplified this. Croatia's relationship with Germany isn't about WWII, that was just a blip in Croat-German relations. Germany and Croatia have a relationship that goes back hundreds of years through the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Yes, the austrians invited serbs to live on the border and keep their religion, but if a war come against the otomans, they would serve the ranks and logistics.
@@pioneirohill8493 No one invited anyone. First, the population from the east started moving in to Croatia somewhere around early and mid-18th century, after the failed rising in the Balkans following the liberation of Hungary and parts of Croatia (Slavonia) in 1698/99. Second, the orthodox population that moved westwards were mostly Vlachs not Serbs, which is why the statute that regulated their position within Habsburg Monarchy was called "Statuta Valachorum" (Vlach Statute) and this decree was to equalize their position with Croats and Hungarians who already lived and fought in the borderland regions and were treated as free citizens rather than serfs. The biggest mistake Habsburgs did was to allow the Serbian orthodox church to come in and literally "convert" these people to Serbs creating problems that would resonate for the next two centuries.
@joekerr9197 Educational system in SFRJ (ex YU) never ever promoted/published this version of the history. I guess historians in Croatia have been busy last 30 years ... We all know that fsiled uprising caused population move NORTH to Budapest area, not west. And folks that populted "Krajina" borderlands were definitely Orthodox faith. Vlachs or Serbs, doesn't really matter the origin. And the fact that Austrians officialy peovided them with big benefits and opportunities simply makes whole thing legal and your comment ridiculous and wrong. Your bosses decided to accept Vlachs/Serbs and that's the only historical truth. Those Orthodox folks (~500K) are gone today due to genocides of WW2 and 1995, but interestingly enough Croatia would very much love to adopt 1 (one) person of that origin - Nikola Tesla!! If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is ....
NATO launched a bombing campaign against Serbia in March 1999 ...The air war lasted 78 days. During more than three months of bombing, NATO targeted mostly military targets, but also destroyed much of Serbia's infrastructure, including several key civilian bridges.NATO bombed Serbia with depleted uranium..Against one sovereign, independent, small and proud country. The most powerful world power has ruined Serbia mercilessly.The Serbia was hit by the 19 most developed countries of the West - a member of the NATO Pact, led by the United States.Heroic defense and the struggle of the people of Serbia against attacks on its freedom, sovereignty, integrity and independence has universal value. It is a model for all peoples of the world who care about freedom and peace..
Chomsky forgets to mention that no one wanted a Yugslavia with Milosevic in the top, he basically self proclaimed himself as the new Tito but was working for a big Serbia instead.
Nah read Parenti "the reational desctruction of yugoslavia". Most of the "genocide" is outright fake. "Serbia" or better to say serbian part of yugoslavia tried to keep yugoslavia together being an multi ethnic movement. On the other hand the separatists were led by a mix from islamic fundamentalists to fascists who defended Hitler. Read a bit more about the situation.
What genocide for gods sake, if you are talking of Srebrenica.. it was a horrific war crime that hapened in 48h. War lasted for 3 years! West is full of condeming "fake news" now in 2020's, imagine what could you do with CNN on your side in 30 years ago...
The powerful voice of the wisest of Americans that The "Left" chooses to ignore at their peril. The Right knows how dangerous he is and if they haven't had him murdered yet is because Democrat politicians are either too afraid - or sold by pennies to those who own the country - to heed his message. Only a revolution of the discontent will shake them up. American who really love their country can learn from the lesson of Chile. When the discontent are pushed to the limit by the abuse of the Right they explode and there is hell to pay before politicians come to their senses and reconstruct a fairer society.
This is the first time I have seen the video and with deep respect I would like to refer to the part about relation Croatia - Germany. If we talk about the history of the Balkan Peninsula it is deeply complicated and not as simple as explained or commented on by some visitors - which shows ignorance. The war in 1991 has nothing to do with the past (WW2) but only with the fact that the Badinter Arbitration Committee confirmed the international recognition of the republic borders on the one side and the other fact in Croatia at that time was 15% of Serb population mixed with Croats in parts of Croatia. After the declaration of independence in June 91, Milosevic took the chance to start the long-planned occupation of most parts of Croatia, written in an official secret document of the Serbian Academy for Science and Art called "Memorandum SANU" signed by most Serbian intellectuals extremists. The main agenda according to the plan was the occupation of all territories where Serbs were represented in some percentage and providing ethnic cleansing. Serbia’s planned western border was Karlobag - Karlovac - Virovitica (Croatian cities), which would divide Croatia in half. Fortunately, the resistance of Croatian citizens was amazing even with very weak weapons. In the war, some accidents against the Serb minority occurred but it has to be clearly emphasized that in Defense forces of Croatia participated in over 15.000 Serbs. As a veteran of the Homeland War, I also had some friends Serbs. Also, it has to be noticed at the beginning that minority rights were part of the Croatia first State Constitution and from the beginning Serbian political Parties actively participated in Government. Even, after the peaceful reintegration of East Slavoina lot of Serbs who actively participated in war crimes in Vukovar and other parts of Croatia were abolished. As a consequence of the reintegration agreement lot of Serbian war criminals peacefully walk today on Vukovar streets and watch the victims, especially rapped women. One of them is Vojislav Stanimirovic. According to the dark history of WW2 Croatia was an ally of Germany and a lot of organized crimes were committed without doubt. But pull out Croatia from the context just to misuse the real character of wars in former Yugoslavia in 1991 is dirty propaganda whose aim is to relativize responsibilities for the war and the committed crimes. If we talk about the "achievements" made for the German Nazis then we have to mention the fact that the Serbia was the very proud first "Juden Frei" country. One of the leaders who participated in this shameful "accomplishment" was the leader of the Serbian royal army Draza Mihajlovic who was recently rehabilitated bay the Serbian government ond one month ago became a monument in the middle of the Serbian capital Beograd! The conclusion is every society has an extreme minority that has to be effectively controlled but Serbia is permanently led by national extremism and latent imperialism driven by the intellectual summit.
He said that US's first response was not picking sides, probably trying to be in good terms with Yugoslavia to stablish future economic dominance (but just at first). When the EU backed up Croatia (and Germany), the US were forced to pick a side in order to be a stakeholder in the situation. But America doesn't know how to be a spectator, and fueled the conflict big time on the background.
@@fernando.tomina He has it with the US foreign policy in general otherwise if it wasn't for the USA intervening in this one the world would be learning about the consequences of WWIII by now
What a deranged world we live in! The saddest day of my life was when Yugoslavia went under, but still NOAM, with all due respect you are a north american and would rather or would also like to hear the account from the people themselves. Merci, Noam Chomsky, ana maria
Here's expose of French general who witnessed everything, for starting plans, to war. No one believes the Serbian people, propaganda is still going strong, punishing us for disobedience, and taking allies side in ww. Serbs made them lose the war in 41, so they needed, and are still being punished for it. twitter.com/JLPhpp/status/1287291421574287360?s=19
Chomsky was wrong here. The second world war's the biggest and the only resistance against German Nazism and Italian Fascism started in Croatia by Croatians. It was the only organised resistance in all Europe. Seven major offensives and battles were provoked by Croatian and later Yugoslav partisans. None of those offensives were success for the Germans or Italians...remember that.
@@josipag2185 yes, Italian insignificant resistance started end of 1943 but Croatian Partisans started fights 1941 when War started. The only resistance in Europe.
The problem with Chomsky articulation is, that he doesn't see real people who had lived in those country (countries) and who made those decisions. He reject peoples will. USA or Germany had little to add to the conflict which was paused but not stopped by Josef Tito. These are hundreds of years of conflicts and actually creation of Yugoslavia only postponed activities towards independences of nations.
Many appear to have trouble placing Chomsky along ideological lines. I think there is a unifying principle to his public speech and writing - we are responsible for our own actions, we can choose to not do any evil. And as an American, he believes he has the responsibility to persuade other Americans to push for policy changes in that vein, since the US is a democracy.
What he is saying about the Mafia principle also explains a lot about what we are doing in Ukraine. Serbia has always functioned as a kind of little Russia. Now that Russia has gotten uppity the Mafia principle dictates that Russia must get punished. Instead of looking for peace we look for the preservation of dominance. At the cost of bloodshed and a threat to the future of humanity.
You'd think the Russian troll farms would be shut down at this point, but I guess the psy-ops are too valuable for Putin to stop. How much does it pay? I'm willing to shitpost for mother Russia if it fills my fridge. Seriously. Message me.
What a bunch of bullshit, people should do their own research.🤣 First Croatia like others held a referendum in 1991 in which those 83% who voted, voted to leave Yugoslavia by 93% saying yes. After that we formally didn't do anything because EU asked us for a three month moratorium, its only then that the war happens because some Serbs were unhappy while others dreamt of Greater Serbia. Its a lie that anyone was for Croatian independence at the start, an embargo was even put on us. Also about the lie of no rights for Serbs google Plan-Z4 which would defacto give Serbs a country inside Croatia, they declined it because they though they would win 🤣 5:15 is the only time he speaks the truth
The Serb minority in Bosnia and Croatia weren't in any danger before the Serb controlled Yugoslav army attacked. They would've been citizens of these new countries and had full voting rights that come with that. The Serbs turned the breakup into a war of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Yeah, Chomsky really spew the imperialistic Serbian propaganda here. He even mentions ww2. Here is the the thing. Germany did support Croatia. Croatia did ensure constitutional right to ALL minorities and no Croatian threatened any Serb. Serbian national television however lied to their people that its an ustasha state, and they listened. The reason Serbs left Slovenia alone is because Slovenians answered with guns (Croatia wanted slow but steady leave, kinda like what UK did with Brexit), not diplomacy and they didnt let Serbs play the victim. So Serbs left. Croatians werent prepared at all for what was coming next.
Cyco Miles Yes and it’s not a consensus! The state that was to be Croatia has nothing to do with the Croatia listed here and absolutely nothing is cited! Nothing! I could claim that in 1981 Croatia had a population that was 80% gay men but where is the evidence?
Serbia was the last pocket of the ideology of ethno-nationalistic chauvinism in Yugoslavia, a remnant of the imperialistic pet projects of the 19th-20th century European Powers and as such was an obstacle to the plan of the pacification and European integration of the Balkans. The Serb political elites did not want to accept the fact that the age of repressive ethno-national chauvinism was over and that a new age was about to begin. The conflict in Kosovo between the Albanians and the Serb state was 87 years old and it did not start with the US. It was created by the European Powers, mainly Russia and it begun in 1878 with the expulsion of the Albanians from Nish and Sandzak. Serbia had been systematically implementing a century of anti-Albanian policies without ever being questioned or being called to take responsibility. The US saw an opportunity and took it. Whatever the interests of the US may have been, the bombing campaign was most welcome by every single Albanian around the world. The Serb state terror had to end once and for all. Chomsky talks the big politics, obviously without having the slightest idea about the roots of the conflict and the impact on the Albanian people both in ex-Yugslavia and in Albania.
obozavam kad se prepirete na engleskom a svi znate isti jezik! Nego ko je na kraju pobedio i sta se dobilo pobedom on objasnjava kako je amerika drzava koja je pocinila i dan danas cini najvise genocida,a vi se uhvatili sto smo se mi sve skupa poubijali ni milion
As the last war has shown, Serbs' behavior exemplifies the case of colonial minorities elsewhere-from French in Algeria & British in Zimbabwe to Russians in Chechnya & Central Asian Republics. They either rule as a privileged caste or flee to their motherland when the system of exploitation, which they have been so avid a part thereof, breaks.
@Genes It has nothing to do with "race", but with the defeat of expansionism & exploitation. The same happened to Germans in Poland, Czechoslovakia, English in Ireland, British in American revolutionary war, Russians in Estonia, Italians in Yugoslavia, ...and will happen to Castillans in future independent Catalonia.
@Jotaro97 Years 1991 & 1992: Serbs are 11% of Croatia’s & 33% of Bosnia & Herzegovina population. They support Slobodan Milošević’s pan-Serbian movement which took JNA/Yugoslav Army under Serbian control. This Army has been financed by all Yugoslav republics (Serbia plus Montenegro 36%, Croatia 28%, Slovenia 19%,..). So, Serbs literally “stole” all these planes, tanks, ships, rockets, guns, howitzers, … and, via their fifth column, first Croatian Serbs, then BiH Serbs, embarked upon their provincial imperial expansion: they wanted to occupy the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina & ca. 70% of Croatia. This was a combined aggression: Serbia proper + Montenegro +JNA + local Serbs. Had they not possessed/stolen all others’ arms, there would have been no war.
Yugoslavia was dominated by Croat Tito and Slo and Cro people in power. Serbs were victims of Croatoslavia. Why there was no autonomous provinces for Dalmatia and Slavonia? Why Jasenovac wasnt preserved and Serb Holocaust was silented? How come Serbs had no right to be independent from Croatia and Croats had from YU? Why Goli otok was for Serbs and not for Croats? Why Croats were not punished and answered for their genocide in ww1 and ww2? Why Serbia was poor while Croatia prospered from taking riches from Serbia and using it as cheap recources. . .
@@josipag2185 * during 1918-1939 period, Yugoslavia was basically a softer version of Greater Serbia, with all nations-except Slovenes- oppressed. Close to 400 Croats & ca. 2000 Muslims had been killed by Serbian paramilitaries & government forces during the “peaceful” period in the 1920s & 1930s. The turning point was assassination of Croatian leader Stjepan Radić, a sort of Croatian Gandhi, by a Serb nationalist in Yugoslav parliament in 1928. This convinced some Croats that any Yugoslavia was insufferable, and the most influential among them was future Poglavnik/”Leader” Ante Pavelić, who emigrated & founded a revolutionary terrorist organization ustaše (ca. 200-300 people). * after the collapse of Yugoslavia in the April war 1941, the situation in Croatia & Bosnia and Herzegovina was something like a vacuum. No Croatian politician wanted to become the head of state patronized by Nazi German authorities, but at the same time there was a sense of jubilation: Croats got independent (in theory) country, after decades of Serbian oppression. In this vacuum, Pavelić was installed by Hitler and Mussolini as a kind of puppet. In this country, ca. 50-60% were Croats & more than 30% were Serbs (the rest were Bosnian Muslims, considered to be Croats). * Pavelić assumed power on April the 10th 1941. But even a week before that, Serb paramilitaries had started killing Croats & some 200-400 people were killed in the interregnum. After he had been installed, Pavelić actually dissolved parliament & established a dictatorship; Croatia was crippled & many vital areas, especially in Dalmatia, were given to Mussolini’s Italy. Also, he introduced racial laws for Jews & started to persecute Serbs- both as a revenge for their participation in royalist Yugoslavia period terror & their atrocities during interregnum. In the next few months perhaps 5-20,000 Serbs were killed by ustaše in various areas of NDH/Independent State of Croatia.Basically, it was a terrorist regime & most Croats disapproved of it, but were expecting to get rid of ustaše in some future & retain statehood under democratic circumstances. So, Croats wanted a truly independent country. * Serbs, being persecuted (along with Jews & Gypsies) rebelled on a massive scale in the last quarter of 1941 & many areas of NDH had become virtually defunct. This resulted in further Pavelić’s dependence to Hitler. On the other hand, communist partisans, led by a Croat, Josip Broz Tito, after their defeat in Serbia fled with remnants of their army to the NDH territory. There, they found refuge among Serbs, while many of them defected to royalist Četniks led by Serbian colonel Mihailović. Četniks killed during 1941, ca. 12-15,000 Muslim & Croat civilians, mostly in the eastern Bosnia regions.From 1941-1945 there was a civil war in all of Yugoslavia, with various factions fighting for different aims. In Croatia, more Croats had been coming to partisans, especially after 1943 (fall of Italy) & thus partisans became a respectable force. For instance, Croatia had 5 partisan corpses (4 of them with a clear Croatian majority), while Slovenia had 2, Bosnia & Herzegovina 2, Serbia proper 2 etc. * in May 1945, the war was over & partisans had won. But, in 2- 6 weeks after the end of war, they committed mass atrocities, killing ca. 80,000-150,000 Croatian soldiers & civilians, perhaps 10,000 Serbian Četniks & up to 4,000 Slovenian white guards.Modern unbiased historical investigations have dispelled many myths, especially those re number of victims in Yugoslavia & NDH in particular. In sum, in all of Yugoslavia, ca. 500,000 Serbs had died unnatural deaths & this included some 300,000 Serbs in NDH. Of these, perhaps over 100,000 had been killed by ustaše, while others died of typhoid, were killed by Germans, Četniks etc. Among Croats, ca. 200- 250,000 died of unnatural causes, virtually all of them in NDH on various sides. Percentage-wise, the biggest losses were among Bosnian Muslims, over 80,000.
i hope that the us and their allies understand now after the afghanistan and iraq wars that reforms in form of imposed social engineering do not always work out.
So, according to Mr. Chomsky separation of Slovenia was ok because it was "part of the west anyway" but in case of Croatia the federal army had to protect integrity of the country. I thought Mr. Chomsky was smarter. Probably old age kicks in.
he meant to say that there were no national minorities in Slovenia (read Serbs) as opposed to Croatia which had a large chunk of territory (cca 30%) controlled by Serbs, which made around 12-15% of total population (500k vs around 4m). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina
Sir Geoffrey Nice Q.C. would hand Chomsky his on a platter if this was debated. Gresham College has a full lecture on Milosevic's trial, Nice was the lead prosecutor. The evidence is overwhelming.
Milosovic was exonerated, or found not guilty of genocide. Too late for him though, he had already been killed by the withholding of vital heart medication.
when I hear people like NC to say that third of population of Croatia was Serbian, I just don't understand how that wrong info came out to public, and why someone like him would some like him perpetuate such an obscure info?? last population census from 1991. (done by Yugoslavian, not Croatian, statistical institute) there were in Croatia cca 4.700.000 people in total, of which cca 3.700.000 Croats, 580.000 Serbs, 110.000 Yugoslavians, 45.000 Muslims, and so on... so there were 12% of population Serbs, so war wasn't because of how many Serbs were in Croatia...to say something like that is a joke, and I really didn't take NC as a joke... disappointed
The Vance-Owen peace plan was in 1993, not in 1992, the war was already raging when the plan was proposed in Geneva. And it was the Bosnian Serb assembly in Pale that rejected it. They even had a referendum on it. It would be important to get those facts straight.
I am disappointed by Mr. Chomsky. He has every right to believe whatever he wants, but he needs to tell the truth. He also didn’t mention anything about the civilians being killed in kosovo. He should have at least mentioned it.
@@kataz7786 he knows the facts. He only uses them selectively and selects those that fit his thesis. It is sad how much science suffers by elevating people of such harmful provenance to a pedestal.
He obviously mixed up names of the peace plans. He was referring to Carrington-Cutileiro plan, which was indeed in 1992, and Alija Izetbegovic withdrew his signature after meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia. You can check the "Peace plans proposed before and during the Bosnian War" wikipedia page for more information and sources.
When he mentioned the first one to get out of Yugoslavia being Slovenia, and that not being big deal, I mean, I kinda felt like he was indirectly taking shots at Zizek.
No, mostly referring to big cultural difference between Slovenia and other nations that were a part of Yugoslavia. Slovenia was always like a quiet and talented step-child, from the first marriage and rich one might I add, which you kinda understand but not completely, that was just waiting on to turn 18 so it could leave the home (Yugoslavia).
@@vladimirvujcic3659 It also didn't cause strategic/logistical issues. In fact, there are some internal memos from the copresidency where they mention that it might be beneficial to have a friendly non-yugoslavian nation between them and Europe. I tend to think that Milosovic started turning the wheels at that time, realizing that things were about to change, to make sure that he was situated optimally at all times. This is when he started really pumping up SAO Krajina using borrowed money and Serbian Nationalists under the guise of minimizing the knock-on effects of the economic downturn after Slovenia's departure. It can be argued that this was actually intended to make Croatia and Bosnia really nervous. Which it obviously DID. So the SAO Krajina was declared a non-legal entity. THAT moment can be seen as the moment where all the pent up nationalism boiled over and a near *necessity* to redraw the borders was forced on a country without the tools to do so. Sprinkle in foreign ignorance and local malfeasance and boom. 100k dead. And Karadzic's frickin' daughter is the mayor of a city right outside of Sarajevo. Thumbs up. Nailed it.
Ефендиа Вакуфац прочитај хрватског историчара Давор Маријан који каже за рат у Босну крив Еф Изетбеговић према томе Срби нису криви треба престати сатонизацију Србију
Our Salvation : 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”...Jesus Christ is the Savior and the Judge...Repent , for the Kingdom of Heaven is near...Bible .
Mr Chomsky, with all due respect, you are correct on most of your analysis , however as a former resident of Yugoslavia, can i just point out the break up of that wonderfull, majestic country had nothing to do with human rights, religious freedom, territorial disputes or even political differences. Plans for the break up and disenteration of of Titos Yugoslavia were drawn in the early 50 just after Tito told Stalin where to go with his Totalitarian schemes. Europe of today, the so called EU should be thankfull to marshal Tito for giving them the model on how to unite and work together. Its sad to see today that the current EU nations are so disenchanted and racist . They would would rather accept 5 million middle Eastern Refugees than accept smaller European countries in the EU. So much for logic.
We be,ieved in Brotherhood and Unity (Bratstvo i Jedinstvo). Chomkey is an old fool who does not understand that desinte3gration of Yugoslavia was mostlyg caused by Serbian communists, who transformed into nationalists and tbhen Serbian fascists...who initicated the war by using Yugoslav amry nmostly with Serbian officers, and thugs enmployed byt Milosevic, Karadzic and Mladic...
"EU should be thankfull to marshal Tito for giving them the model on how to unite and work together." What, he did exactly the same thing as any other communist, kill people until they shut up... One could say yugoslavia was a sort of a warcrime... order=borders, no order=no borders=migrations=chaos=salt on patriotism=lasting hate=chauvinism=war? unlikely, with all the great powers and shit, but tito/commies did fuck all, only cause suffering and decay, ffs serfdom was better than irl communism, if you add enough brainwash into the mix it will instead of proceeding to nationalism just stop at chaos and eventually lead to extinction of a nation and the worst thing, that brings with it is, lack of love... leads to decay...
@@rockrl98 Tito managed to keepo Yugoslavia from oiutside iraon curtain imposed by the Soviets, as Tito had enough snmarts to avoid being kiulled by Stalin and kept Yugoslavia in between West and East. AEconomy was mixed and farmers could keep their land and produce unlike in colective farms in USSR...and elsewhere.. People could also have small businesses..and travel freelhy to and from Yugoslavia. I KNOW, as I was born and lived in Yugoslavia untill leaving in 1971 for personal reasons...Tito promoted idea of Brotherhood and Unity...which was not such a bad idea...his main failure was to leave good successor mnechanism as he was a President for
Do not blame others for Serbian (and less Croatian) nationalism for the break up of Yugoslavia when Communism failed after 1989...MIiosevic and Serbs who supported him are guilty for this uncivil war while this time Muslims and Croatisain Bosnisa were main victims... EU and UN were total dunces in dealing with this stupid war...
@@vlastamolak1156 "Chomkey is an old fool" - Professor Chomsky is one of the smartest people out there, all of his scientific work and international recognition of his work speak in favor of that. Just because you disagree with his views on breakup of Yugoslavia doesn't make him an "old fool" and doesn't give you the right to slander him.
"The percentage of those declaring themselves as Serbs, according to the 1991 census in Croatia, was 12.2% (78.1% of the population declared itself to be Croat)" not one third as Chomsky says .... if you can't get that right then how much weight can you place on anything else Chomsky says on this issue? There was a vote and an overwhelming majority of people in Croatia voted for independence through parliamentary elections .... you either support democracy or you don't.
This is totally incorrect. He does not know the basic facts about the start of the war and has obviously no idea that the start of the war was based and the Yugoslav People's Army initiative against Slovenia and against the TO - 'Teritorijalna obrana' (the republic army) which was stripped of guns and ammo in May 1990 and is to be considered the start of the war in Croatia.
Hahahahahah You F. liars .I am glad you have seceeded. TO means homeland army (reservists dad's army) and is under command of the federal army (JNA).Like Homeland security is under command of US Army .Imagine homeland army in California starts shootng at US Army and starts blocking their barracs ?Hahahahahahahahh.They will be wiped in 2 seconds....Unless EU helps it happens in USA .Hahahahahahah.....And the were speedily and intesively Amed by BND (Germany)......But BND bribred Army officers and Milosevic big time and that was the end of USA, pardon Yugoslavia
" In International Relations Theory, there's only one principle that I know of... That's the Mafia principle: International relations is very much like the Mafia, the Godfather does not accept disobedience..." -Noam Chomsky.
The truth is usually simple,but hard to swallow for many
Mr Chomsky, when referring to Germany and Croatia in The Second World War, is referring to the religio-fascist *Ustaše*
These people committed such horrid atrocities that the *Nazis* of all people objected to the brutality.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe
My family was living in Hungary Milinsk at that time. Ustase was metioned by SS soliders as being brutal. My family were in the Soviet camps so many parished there. They were sold out in Operation keehaul, by the allied forces, who turned them back when fleeing tothe Austrian boarders, and allowed Russia to put them in camps once again an take thier land and give it to the Serbs. We were know as Danschwibian people. What a turbulent and horrible time for Eastern Europe. Read;"TheTolstoy Agreement" by: Lenard Tolstory
@@Myhasleful ::
The unbelievable horrors of The History of US Slavery seems to pale by the side of what Europeans have done to other Europeans -- for so many, many Centuries.
Yes but so many people do not realise this fact.
holy shit ur death camps are such bad death camps >:( ours are much more humane
@@cliffgaither you're missing one fact. Slavery in the US was one of Europe's crimes. Like the genocide of the Indigenous people whose land you live on. Or who I live on in Australia. Or the horrors of the Belgian Congo. The famines in India and China. The rape of Japan. The destruction of North Korea.
Yugoslavia was sold out from the inside, the war was that of the Oligarchies rise to power.
Listen to Mikael Gorbachev BBC talk, its about the break up of the Soviet Union, they almost ended up in a civil war, for the same reason as Yugoslavia.
The privatization of Socialist States means lots of money either to the people, who own everything or a lucky few, who steal everything.
Interesting point of view. So what makes China different at this stage in history? Why do they seem to be able to have " the best of both worlds"?
@@abraxadabra4224 IMO it's because of modern tech, a much stronger system, and a streak of great leaders (Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao, Xi Jinping). China has managed to make a stable environment through the infamous Chinese firewall and surveillance state, inside a system in which the importance of merchants (billionaires) is almost non-existent while promoting a strong work ethic "Merchants were considered the lowest social class in Ancient China. People believed that they did not contribute to the good of the whole society but only worked for their own gain. ... The government looked down upon the merchants and tried to stop them from making big profits in times of shortages.". A view COMPLETELY IN OPPOSITION to American individualism where billionaires are job creators without whom the world would stop turning. And lastly, the country has had great leaders, great as in giving vision to the nation while prioritizing its development.
lmao Yugoslavia was already hemorrhaging due to Tito's Economic institution who relied much on Cold war tension
Yup,,, we tend to call that ownership "democaracy"
@@josipag2185 Josip. There is only one answer that will show you what was and is..
check who owns Croatia and Slovenia today. It is not who you think.
USED TO LIVE AT YUGOESLAVIA. & STILL GO AND VISIT WHEN IT IS POSSIBLE!
PEOPLE I LOVE IS STILL THERE !
FEB 4, 2016
Nice nature, art and scenery. Everything else is crappy. Especially tribal and small minded people with small intelligence and big ego
I also go often as I have friends in all parts of Yugoslavia...People had mostly recovered after the bloody uncivil war and now have 7 different countries... I left there in 1971 after finishing University of Zagreb..
@@vlastamolak1156 Not 7 countries, 6 countries
Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and KOSOVI .. . THAT IS SEVEN COUNTRIES
CHOMSKY IS TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT YUHOSLAVIA
@@vlastamolak1156 lol kosovo is a disputed territory between serbs and albanians nothing special there just poverty and crime
I wish that the different republics could have worked out their differences without violence. Depressing end to Yugoslavia and all the lives destroyed.
The book Chomsky is referring to at the 4 minute is called "Collision-Course-NATO-Russia-Kosovo", and the quote comes from the XXiii page.
Thank you
Subtitle ''Drunkard Yeltsin''
3:50 ''Serbia was not taking social and economic reforms''-----------They refused to take loan sharking credits and refused debt slavery
And..... that is absolutely NOT the way USA wants to se Europe. And certainly not a strong socialistic country called Yugoslavija in Europe.
@@protek5060 Because German -Nazi poodles were incensed by Yugoslavia, the land where communism (Yu version ) worked perfectly .
@@josipag2185 The Europeans have been a destructive force since the UK empire started to form,, long before WW2. And continuing. What an evil breed we are.
@@josipag2185 Josipa 1 BBBBB ShShSh .Big one.Talking like one who never heard of Marx !!!!!!!Yugoslavian people was the same tribe from Russia .Later various Satanic empires Divided them into Catholics Muslims Orthodox...Serbs Croats Slavonians...And Pitting them against each other....The same like tribes in Africa....Latin ''Divide et Impera'' German tribes were killing each other though centuries TOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!No one imposed ''divide'' on them YET .Hahahahahahahahahahaahah
@@josipag2185 Josipa 2 BS .....'''. And later they were allies with comunist Yugoslavia and with Russia '''----------------??????????????????????????????????????? The should have been allies of NAZIS??????????LIKE TODAY IN UKR!!!!!!!!!!!Are you USTASA?
International politics = mafia principle ;; so true. 5:30
@@vlastamolak1156 That first sentence made no sense, but ok.
@kiril marinov Almost never a good idea to get into a discussion on the internet
@@manueldros ::
I agree, not that it matters !
But just think of the exchanges people have ( had ) from all over the World. Learning about other people ; other histories ; other opinions ; other cultures ; other customs ...
These kinds of Domestic & International Exchanges is one of the Great Advances of this Century.
Massive Populations communicating -- all over the World -- it cannot sit well w / those who have had so much exclusive
power for so long ...
@@cliffgaither Getting into a discussion and learning about the wonders of the world and people are two separate things I think. I've never seen a fruitful discussion on youtube where people respect each others character and thinking ways. Maybe somewhere else on the internet, some Reddit pages, but on UA-cam I havent found it sadly
@@manueldros ::
Maybe I spend too much time on YT.
I had a flip-up phone for a long time. I didn't want to end up like people I saw on the streets w / their phones. Then I got a "smart" phone & discovered YT had existed for 10yrs. before I discovered it. Now, w / so very many sources of information & opinions, I'm just like other people w / this damn phone !
I've found many respectable exchanges & opinions, especially the exchanges of historical events.
People will be respectful if you meet them half-way, unless they are just unreasonable.
You haven't found any yet ? Maybe you have better things to do than hold a phone up to your face --
24 / 7. 😄
"It was Yugoslavia's
resistance to the broader trends of political and economic reform-not the
plight of Kosovar Albanians-that best explains NATO's war."
John Norris - Collision
Course ( the book Chomsky talks about )
On the contrary. Kosovo was the main trigger because of the refugees. The west knew that the majority of those refugees would have ended in EU and considering that about 2 millions of them, as a product of wars in Croatia and Bosnia, were already in EU, that scenario had to be prevented. They simply bombed Serbia just to prevent new refugee wave.
@@jackylaibach2351yes on humanitarian grounds only not because they supported the right of a people for self-determination. Also to prevent the conflict from escalating to Albania which would involve surely major powers into violent antagonists too. The way he simplifies this into mafia principle is downplaying the complicated history of the region. Sure mafia principle may be part of USA foreign interventions but not the sole drive on this case. It may have compounded into the other elements. And it's not like Serbia was not begging for that kind of principle either
👍
@Cassius are you actually saying that number of refugees from Bosnia and Croatia after wars in those countries was minuscule? Again,there was already more than 2 million refugees from those countries in EU when bombing of Serbia started.
@Cassius am not confusing anything because in 99 there were still huge numbers of refugees from Bosnia and Croatia and my point was that bombing has been undertaken partly in order to avoid second huge wave of refugees this time from Kosovo.
Poor innocent people that died! May they Rest In Peace.
As for the people that were in power on all sides shame on all of you for letting so many innocent people lose there life’s and all the people affected by the war itself.
Pray that future generations can learn to live together in peace. Having hate in your heart is a very bad thing to live with.
John Lukic yeah they destroyed my child hood.
The only hate I have left is towards U.S. and its way to export their version of democracy.
Ameen 💞💞💞 you said it well
@@protek5060me too ❤
@@protek5060I fought with them yesterday
They had free healthcare and education. They had to go.
We still have free healthcare and education. Croatia at least.
@@kristijanpavlovic But your economy is controlled by American capital, unlike Serbia in the mid-90s
Ahh yes more Communist Conspiracy Theories
I don't see the attempt to do the same with the rest of Europe.
@@andrespolo2722 Look a little harder.
I strongly propose Mr Chomsky open an ASMR channel, since his voice is quite peaceful and well toned and maintained. Or maybe im simply tired of researching the Yugoslavia collapse background.
Thought the same for a long time. It's unintentional ASMR gold
It's an excellent source for falling asleep.
i am tired too
ua-cam.com/video/j-d22gENSPg/v-deo.html
@@dhu1919 also justifying Genocide are not Genocides
DOUBLESPEAK - "make war to stop war" - "put guns in schools to keep guns out of schools" - "give tax money and tax breaks to the rich to help the poor" - "patriot act (read it)" - "capital punishment to show that murder is wrong" - "get rid of the EPA and deregulate polluters to make the world a better place" - "get rid of ethics committees, they are not ethical" - "deregulate banks and companies so they can do BETTER, lol"
george orwell I'm dying 😂
Victor Stevenson stop
george orwell Give everyone a million dollars and we'll all be rich! Doublespeak goes both ways. Ironic considering your namesake, Animal Farm and 1984 were written as criticisms of Communism. Orwell coined terms like doublespeak to illustrate the way INGSOC controlled people through language, just like the Soviets who INGSOC is based upon. Things Soviets liked: high taxes, a disarmed and indoctrinated public
Whats wrong with "making war to stop war"? If a neighboring country invades yours, the only way you can stop it is by warring back. Or surrending and hope you aren't slaughtered. Making war to stop war is pretty common throughout history. How would we have stopped Hitler without making war?
I'm not sure what point you're making other than some vague sentiment against specific policies you dont like so you strawman them.
+ 200% SMUG
How do you know that George Orwell wrote Animal Farm and 1984 as criticism of communism ?We live in 1984 right now and America has capitalism .
""put guns in schools to keep guns out of schools" -" Nobody has suggested that. The rest of your screed is equally simplistic.
Free Julian Assange
Noam Chomsky - The Disintegration of Yugoslavia
2017.2.4/5
USA: "I use war to end the war."
Long live USA. Mlloshevic did not listen when they told him to stop killing children. There was no way but to interfere.
USA was part of destruction of Yugoslavia. You think they are the heroes? :'D
@@erjonsinani2451 Hi did not kill children.
@@erjonsinani2451 He killed only muslim fundamentalist bandits in Kosovo And NATO killed All childern in YUgoslavia
@@erjonsinani2451 anyone who says “long live USA” is a degenerate
Don't forget the role of Türkey in the war they have been wanting to re-enter the Balkans for a long time
Chomsky 5:18 onwards: "With all the fancy talk in International Relations Theory, there's only one principle that I know of it seems to me to have any merit and that's the Mafia principle. International relations is very much like the Mafia. The Godfather does not accept disobedience." Analogy - "Suppose some small storekeeper that doesn't pay his protection money, well the Godfather doesn't just send out his goons to pick up the money, he sends out the goons to beat him to a pulp so that others will understand that disobedience is not acceptable."
Thank you
It doesnt have anything with croat german union wtf and america didnt work to keep yugoslavia one country why did the president of the USA at that time made a law and forbid all investors not to give yugoslavia financial help unless countries seperate from the original goverment. You put way too much time and effort talking about war and not who made it possible and who actually started it. I'll give you a hint it aint one of the yugoslav countries
Well to be frank it wasn't Clinton who "made a law", it was the IMF who was promising the secessionist governments to be exonerated from Yugoslav national debt if they seceded... But what the secessionist governments didn't know was that in order to secede, they would have to spend money (i.e borrow from IMF) on resources for the military since the Serbs weren't dumb to just part away from their own military resources in the pursue of peace. I think the largest contributor to the conflict was former Yugoslav president Tito, because 1. He made a platform for the secessionist governments on which they can work on; 2. He didn't successfully resolve the post WWII wounds in the country; 3. He did the same thing Merkel does now with Germany (Funny how history repeats), by allowing large amount of Albanian immigrants to Kosovo and forcing the Serbs out (because they were more expensive than Albanians), and hoping that would improve the Kosovar economy (Just look at the stats of GDP in former Yugoslavia, Kosovo had the smallest economy before the breakup, lol), it was inevitable that the Kosovars rise after giving them partial Autonomy, because they lived in the poorest conditions in the country; 4. He also contributed in the Bosnian conflict, by giving the Muslim population an identity calling them "The Muslim population" (therefore giving them a platform to seek independence from Croats and Serbs as well);
I do agree that US contributed to the war but not by stirring up the country to conflict, but rather by cutting the foreign aid the US was giving to Yugoslavia (Around $3 billion dollars in the period of the cold war, which boosted Yugoslavia's position in the region), just because the Cold war ended.
The way to avoid conflict, is to wait for reforms in the country and gradually decrease the aid. Not just cutting it off, because the country went into hyper inflation after that (And the politicians were ready to make some reforms before it as well).
I hope I made myself clear here. Have a nice day!
This is an outstanding point, some of it I never heard of. How old are you and where are you from? I guess USA?
It definitely has to do with Germany. Germany and the Vatican are Serbia's No.1 enemies since the 19th century.
You are absolutely right in that the root of all the political problems in the balkans today is Tito. @@salecc9432
@IcantSeeReplies Milosevic did revive the nationalism, but only to gain power. He did not start the wars. In Slovenia, it was the Slovenians. In Croatia, it was Croats, and in Bosnia it was the Muslims.
Just look at the Zadar crystal night in May 1991. Hundreds of Serbian shops, houses and apartments demolished and stolen. Serbs from Zadar were lucky to get out alive. And then 2 days later, protests in Split. The mob tries to pull out a soldier from a tank, and kill him. The fact that no civilian blood was spilt that day did not stop the war.
Croats got what they wanted. An ethnically clean state. I just don't understand why they are still so hysterical. Could it be the guilt?
Thank you Noam for simplifying a complicated issue. I would just like to add that where you have a mix of different religious groups and ethnicity it is always easier to divide and conquer. One thing is for certain that what goes around comes around. The breakdown of international law is the greatest undoing of mankind and a horrific future will unfold.
It will be also simple when Military-Industrial complex starts WW 3
It's actually oversimplified to the extent he said few straight forward lies. There was never 30% Serbians in Croatia. Not even Milosevic used that kind of lie as an excuse for war.
There weren't even 10% except for many who settled in SR Croatia during Yugoslavia but without permanent residence.
Mosm Chomsky is an old Gaga out of touch with reality
Actually not so complicated... US have always been orchestrated every conflict since WW2.
We can simply look at "who owns what" in former Yugoslavia, today.
@@clansman89 There was almost 600 000 living there. (As far as we know)
When was this recorded?
and yes its time for beter world ...
Got to love the dupes who support all the interventions always for "humanitarianism". At least we in Greece didn't get duped and we almost all of us (95%) supported Yugoslavia against the American and NATO slaughter.
Clinton supported Bosnia. What did you "Red Greek Revolutionaries" do; provide military aid, or just eat baclava and tzatziki?
Some Greeks did volunteer and fought with Serbia and our soldiers refused to aid in any way the Americans. For that they are honored by everyone who opposes imperialism and war. As for the despicable Clinton and America they didn't give a fuck about the Bosnians or anyone (which is a myth that they were in danger in the first place) they only wanted to destroy Yugoslavia to replace it with tinny puppet states which unfortunately came to pass.
The opposite happened, it was thrown to the wolfs who collaborated with the German and Italian fascists while those on the resistance were hunted down. The so called "democratic" western bourgeoisie embraced the fascists with open arms when faced with the possibility of people's rule. They took the political and economic leadership those who in the occupation were the black marketeers and black hooded collaborators who betrayed the heroes of the national resistance to the German firing squads. The absolute dregs of society which were dealt with by People's Justice in the rest of Europe in Greece they not only remained unpunished but they were rewarded as well. That is the truth about the so called "democratic" allies.
mate, whatever the Western news is feeding you is the actual propaganda 99% of the time. Whatever CNN, BBC, etc... are reporting on in a foreign country IS THE PROPAGANDA, so assume the exact opposite is the truth. @RichardMontauk
@@redgreekrevolution '' a myth that they were in danger '' say that to 100 000 dead Bosniaks you dunce, and greek volunteers participated in genocide in srebrenica btw.
6:28 ''Our noble efforts don't work lets try something else'' ---------------That else was URANIUM 235. Dust that flew from Serbia to the whole World.
The US certainly did want a military base in Yugoslavia, Camp Bondsteel. Serbia refused. Everything else is history.
I WAS BORN IN JUGOSLAVIJA.QUESTION IS:"ARE WE PEOPLE ABLE TO LEARN FROM THE PAST?"
Mr. Chomsky needs to educate himself better on the issue. There was unrest simmering in Yugoslavia since Serbia decided to abolish the autonomy of Kosovo. Slovenia was let go by the Serbs in order to control the federal state and subsequently the Army without which the Serbs would not have been able to perpetrate the crimes that the international organizations accuse them of. His explanation does not take into account so many other political factors. With all due respect but he sees this conflict from his small window of the so called "American Imperialism and Expansionism".
Education has nothing to do with it. Was Chomsky insufficiently educated when he wrote a slew of apologies and excuses for, and denials of, the Khmer Rouge massacres under Pol Pot? Was he insufficiently educated when he wrote that Holocaust-denier Faurisson was not antisemitic but just "an apolitical liberal"? It's just who the man is. He picks sides on the basis of who is anti-American or whom the U.S. or its allies are opposing, and that's the end of the analysis. The fake analysis which follows just amounts to twisting or suppressing any evidence or logic which contradicts the already adopted dogma.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 You might want to look at his actual response to these allegations. ua-cam.com/video/f3IUU59B6lw/v-deo.html
@@clickrush I'm extremely familiar with his lying bullshit on all these issues.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 Clearly you are not.
@@thanlem2522 Clearly you are a Chomsky cult member who believes your guru is always right. It is you who is not familiar with Chomsky's obscene apologetics for the Khmer Rouge genocide, and prefer to believe the guru's lying account of what he did or didn't say. If you are genuinely interested - although I doubt it - try googling Steven Lukes Chomsky. Lukes article provides a concise summary of the outrageous, obscene things Chomsky said at the time. Since it is based almost entirely on quotes, Chomsky never replied. He likes venues where only he gets to speak, and is able to lie with impunity, as cult members like yourself applaud every sentence.
It's all about racketeering
The threat of a good example, e.g., boycott of Cuba, Chile under Allende, Iran under Mossadegh, Nicaragua, Guatemala etc etc.
And no mention of the genocide against Bosnians. Absolutely shameful.
My dad worked on Belgrade airport as simple mechanic in 80 and his salary was 2000$, in 80. Everyone who worked after 2 years have received apartment from the company day worked for. Army was 4 in Europe after USSR, UK and France. There was freedom you can't imagine.
Can anyone recommend some books/documentaries/podcasts/etc that they feel have a fair and unbiased as possible view of Yugoslavia and its war? From a leftist/socialist lens as well. Thank you!
I know this was from months ago, but how could something be unbiased, and also through a lens of leftist/socialism? I might be misinterpreting what you are saying though…
@@andon9561 yeah you’re right, I worded that really stupidly. I guess there’s no such thing as unbiased, so what I’m looking for is something presented through the lens I’ve already integrated into my life and trust after thinking critically about it. I don’t want to learn about the war through a capitalist’s lens, a conservative’s lens, etc. i would still be wary of any information I read, but it would save me time as opposed to reading other things. Idk if that makes sense
monthlyreview - the-dismantling-of-yugoslavia
To Kill a Nation: The Attack on Yugoslavia by Michael Parenti
@@AL-vq1mz You’re a dummy.
@@jacksnipe9640 good recommendation on the MR article, I didnt know much about the yugoslavian dissolution but knew it heavily involved NATO, so was looking for proper education on the subject (how i ended up at this video) and found it very helpful as further reading for cutting through the western hegemonic attitudes i likely wouldve found in mainstream explanations down into the actual realpolitik reasons for the dissolution.
Diplomatic circles at the time would refer to the war as " Genscher's War ". That's all you need to know about it...
👍
I remember the name of the USA Secretary of Defence, and the name of the USA Secretary of State during the Clinton Presidency.
It’s good to look at their ethnic and religious background. So interesting.
I don't how people such as Noam Chomsky can deny such atrocities such as genocide especially since this guy is a Leftist and it surprises me that leftists in America support him even though Leftists hate fascism and this guy supported the last fascist regime in Europe. As an American from Ohio, I love my country, I'm a patriot, I come from a family of American war veterans, and Hungarians that fled communism. I will agree, we have done shitty things, every country has, but we've also done good things too and in this case, America along with NATO stopped a genocide in Bosnia. We prevented another one from taking place in Kosovo. I mean sure bombing Serbia without UN approval is controversial yes, but history has taught us if you stand by and do nothing, things will go from 0 to 100 really quickly. Denying that the Bosnian Genocide took place is just as bad as denying that the Holocaust never happened and it sickens me because not only do I have family that experienced WWII as a child, saw destruction and atrocities, and fled Communist Hungary, but the complete and utter ignorance of people like Chomsky denying that a genocide or any for that matter never took place despite overwhelming evidence that a genocide did take place. It especially sickens me how leftists like Chomsky demonize America, but yet turn a blind eye to countries like the former USSR, China, Cuba, etc. who are just as bad when doing shitty things if not worse.
If commiting a genocide or oppression is a condition to come and split the country apart, United States of America should be split into literally thousand separate countries
5:49 uh oh
😂😂😂😂😂
"Without any rights for the Serbian minority. Nothing". Totally false.
not correct...
There was a consensus amongst the newly formed EU that there could not be another regional power and certainly not in the causus peninsula.
thank you
2:35 '' Serbia was a problem'' ------------Serbia is always a problem...Ask any occupator through eons of time
Serbia is geographicly doomed as it is located right at the centre where all major wars have passed through. They are a repeated casualty
@@humanoidy May be but we fucked up all aggressors.Hahahahahaha.Up to now.We need USA help with EU.
Or any neighboring populace :)
@@hysenndregjoni853 Only EU
No I moreso meant Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, among others.
Yugoslavia was targeted because it was the last post in Europe to hold against American imperialism. US targeted Serbs in Bosnia, and then in their own country (in the name of protecting Kosovars). And with what legitimacy did NATO intervene anyway? No UNSC resolution, no Article 5 justification. There was simply no legal case.
Typical conspiritard. It's always a small group at the top responsible.
No incident is ever a natural progression of hate and centuries old divides
Posso dire, avendo ascoltato solo il primo minuto, che quì abbiamo a che fare con un vecchio rimbambito.
0:34 "because I think about a third of the population of Croatia is Serbian."
- It was actually 12.2.% of the population, which is about 1/8, not 1/3 of the population.
0:41 "so when Croatia pulled out, the Yugoslav army entered to try to protect the integrity of the country and the Serbian minority."
- According to 1974 Yugoslav constitution: "Proceeding from the right of every nation to self-determination, including the right to secession, Yugoslavia is defined as a federal republic of equal nations and nationalities, freely united on the principle of brotherhood and unity in achieving specific and common interest. Holders of the sovereignty of nations and nationalities are the republics and provinces within its constitutional jurisdiction"
-so, according to the Yugoslav constitution, individual republics had the right to secede ("Proceeding from the right of every nation to self-determination, including the right to secession... holders of the sovereignty of nations are the republics"), Croatia held a national referendum, with 83 % voter turnout, and 93% in favour of independence, so why the fuck is the Yugoslav army entering and violating the constitutional right of a republic to secede, if it is supposed that the nations are united freely, not forcefully.
thank you brother,thats real truth but Serbia doesnt wont admit their crimes in Croatia...thanky you from Split,Croatia
There never will be as good of a country here on earth as was Yugoslavia.
OK hunger after ww2, but after that, ppl were FREAKING HAPPY AND HOPEFULL.
Pozdrav iz. SLOVENIJE!
sloveniji gre boljs izven yugoslavije
@@figaroo4816 hmh. Vsak dan boljše.
I AM NOT A DOG WHATCHING/LISTENING AWARE OF MR AVRAHAM NOAM CHOMSKY. !
One small correction should be made and noted. Chomsky on 0:38 mentions that about one third of the Croatian population were Serbs. This is incorrect. One third of Bosnian and Hercegovian population were Serbs, and that resulted in many complications and problems which led the the subsequent war, genocide and massive forceful movement of refugees. Only 10-12% of the population of Croatia identified as Serbian at the time, as oppossed to around 33% which Chomsky claims.
He was prolly lookin at statistics pre WW2, before they all got genocided by the Croats.
@@alloydasufferer3803 even then it was 15 percent
@@alloydasufferer3803wrong
I generally agree with Mr. Chomsky, but he's over simplified this. Croatia's relationship with Germany isn't about WWII, that was just a blip in Croat-German relations. Germany and Croatia have a relationship that goes back hundreds of years through the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Yes, the austrians invited serbs to live on the border and keep their religion, but if a war come against the otomans, they would serve the ranks and logistics.
@@pioneirohill8493 No one invited anyone. First, the population from the east started moving in to Croatia somewhere around early and mid-18th century, after the failed rising in the Balkans following the liberation of Hungary and parts of Croatia (Slavonia) in 1698/99. Second, the orthodox population that moved westwards were mostly Vlachs not Serbs, which is why the statute that regulated their position within Habsburg Monarchy was called "Statuta Valachorum" (Vlach Statute) and this decree was to equalize their position with Croats and Hungarians who already lived and fought in the borderland regions and were treated as free citizens rather than serfs. The biggest mistake Habsburgs did was to allow the Serbian orthodox church to come in and literally "convert" these people to Serbs creating problems that would resonate for the next two centuries.
*from not drom. I have tipfelers due to mobile typing
@joekerr9197 Educational system in SFRJ (ex YU) never ever promoted/published this version of the history. I guess historians in Croatia have been busy last 30 years ...
We all know that fsiled uprising caused population move NORTH to Budapest area, not west. And folks that populted "Krajina" borderlands were definitely Orthodox faith. Vlachs or Serbs, doesn't really matter the origin. And the fact that Austrians officialy peovided them with big benefits and opportunities simply makes whole thing legal and your comment ridiculous and wrong. Your bosses decided to accept Vlachs/Serbs and that's the only historical truth.
Those Orthodox folks (~500K) are gone today due to genocides of WW2 and 1995, but interestingly enough Croatia would very much love to adopt 1 (one) person of that origin - Nikola Tesla!!
If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is ....
They're NAZI, NAZI, USA ARE NAZI, PUTIN DID NOTHING WRONG
Strange how the USA sided with Kosovo,a country with rich mineral wealth.Some things never change.
This man in uninformed. Serbs wanted all Serbs in one state, half of Croatia and whole Bosnia.
Demagogues on all sides wanted conquest. Ordinary people just wanted to be not bothered by the government.
NATO launched a bombing campaign against Serbia in March 1999 ...The air war lasted 78 days. During more than three months of bombing, NATO targeted mostly military targets, but also destroyed much of Serbia's infrastructure, including several key civilian bridges.NATO bombed Serbia with depleted uranium..Against one sovereign, independent, small and proud country. The most powerful world power has ruined Serbia mercilessly.The Serbia was hit by the 19 most developed countries of the West - a member of the NATO Pact, led by the United States.Heroic defense and the struggle of the people of Serbia against attacks on its freedom, sovereignty, integrity and independence has universal value. It is a model for all peoples of the world who care about freedom and peace..
Chomsky forgets to mention that no one wanted a Yugslavia with Milosevic in the top, he basically self proclaimed himself as the new Tito but was working for a big Serbia instead.
no he wasn't it's just racist anti-Serb propaganda, he was a communist and a monster.
Well said !!
So genocide was just Serbia's resistance to economic and political norms?
Nah read Parenti "the reational desctruction of yugoslavia". Most of the "genocide" is outright fake. "Serbia" or better to say serbian part of yugoslavia tried to keep yugoslavia together being an multi ethnic movement. On the other hand the separatists were led by a mix from islamic fundamentalists to fascists who defended Hitler. Read a bit more about the situation.
What genocide for gods sake, if you are talking of Srebrenica.. it was a horrific war crime that hapened in 48h. War lasted for 3 years! West is full of condeming "fake news" now in 2020's, imagine what could you do with CNN on your side in 30 years ago...
The powerful voice of the wisest of Americans that The "Left" chooses to ignore at their peril. The Right knows how dangerous he is and if they haven't had him murdered yet is because Democrat politicians are either too afraid - or sold by pennies to those who own the country - to heed his message. Only a revolution of the discontent will shake them up. American who really love their country can learn from the lesson of Chile. When the discontent are pushed to the limit by the abuse of the Right they explode and there is hell to pay before politicians come to their senses and reconstruct a fairer society.
This is the first time I have seen the video and with deep respect I would like to refer to the part about relation Croatia - Germany. If we talk about the history of the Balkan Peninsula it is deeply complicated and not as simple as explained or commented on by some visitors - which shows ignorance. The war in 1991 has nothing to do with the past (WW2) but only with the fact that the Badinter Arbitration Committee confirmed the international recognition of the republic borders on the one side and the other fact in Croatia at that time was 15% of Serb population mixed with Croats in parts of Croatia. After the declaration of independence in June 91, Milosevic took the chance to start the long-planned occupation of most parts of Croatia, written in an official secret document of the Serbian Academy for Science and Art called "Memorandum SANU" signed by most Serbian intellectuals extremists. The main agenda according to the plan was the occupation of all territories where Serbs were represented in some percentage and providing ethnic cleansing. Serbia’s planned western border was Karlobag - Karlovac - Virovitica (Croatian cities), which would divide Croatia in half. Fortunately, the resistance of Croatian citizens was amazing even with very weak weapons. In the war, some accidents against the Serb minority occurred but it has to be clearly emphasized that in Defense forces of Croatia participated in over 15.000 Serbs. As a veteran of the Homeland War, I also had some friends Serbs. Also, it has to be noticed at the beginning that minority rights were part of the Croatia first State Constitution and from the beginning Serbian political Parties actively participated in Government. Even, after the peaceful reintegration of East Slavoina lot of Serbs who actively participated in war crimes in Vukovar and other parts of Croatia were abolished. As a consequence of the reintegration agreement lot of Serbian war criminals peacefully walk today on Vukovar streets and watch the victims, especially rapped women. One of them is Vojislav Stanimirovic.
According to the dark history of WW2 Croatia was an ally of Germany and a lot of organized crimes were committed without doubt. But pull out Croatia from the context just to misuse the real character of wars in former Yugoslavia in 1991 is dirty propaganda whose aim is to relativize responsibilities for the war and the committed crimes. If we talk about the "achievements" made for the German Nazis then we have to mention the fact that the Serbia was the very proud first "Juden Frei" country. One of the leaders who participated in this shameful "accomplishment" was the leader of the Serbian royal army Draza Mihajlovic who was recently rehabilitated bay the Serbian government ond one month ago became a monument in the middle of the Serbian capital Beograd! The conclusion is every society has an extreme minority that has to be effectively controlled but Serbia is permanently led by national extremism and latent imperialism driven by the intellectual summit.
USA tried to keep Yugoslavia together 😂😂😂
I’m waiting for the next joke which is USA tried to keep USSR together.
He said that US's first response was not picking sides, probably trying to be in good terms with Yugoslavia to stablish future economic dominance (but just at first). When the EU backed up Croatia (and Germany), the US were forced to pick a side in order to be a stakeholder in the situation. But America doesn't know how to be a spectator, and fueled the conflict big time on the background.
Michael Parenti was right about Noam
@@fernando.tomina He has it with the US foreign policy in general otherwise if it wasn't for the USA intervening in this one the world would be learning about the consequences of WWIII by now
USA helped seperate Yugoslavia*
100% right
What a deranged world we live in! The saddest day of my life was when Yugoslavia went under, but still NOAM, with all due respect you are a north american and would rather or would also like to hear the account from the people themselves. Merci, Noam Chomsky, ana maria
Here's expose of French general who witnessed everything, for starting plans, to war. No one believes the Serbian people, propaganda is still going strong, punishing us for disobedience, and taking allies side in ww. Serbs made them lose the war in 41, so they needed, and are still being punished for it. twitter.com/JLPhpp/status/1287291421574287360?s=19
Chomsky was wrong here. The second world war's the biggest and the only resistance against German Nazism and Italian Fascism started in Croatia by Croatians. It was the only organised resistance in all Europe. Seven major offensives and battles were provoked by Croatian and later Yugoslav partisans. None of those offensives were success for the Germans or Italians...remember that.
@@josipag2185 yes, Italian insignificant resistance started end of 1943 but Croatian Partisans started fights 1941 when War started. The only resistance in Europe.
Mostly not true, most Croats were Ustashe
In order to make peace you need to stop the war
US and other great powers: well yes, but actually no
The problem with Chomsky articulation is, that he doesn't see real people who had lived in those country (countries) and who made those decisions. He reject peoples will. USA or Germany had little to add to the conflict which was paused but not stopped by Josef Tito. These are hundreds of years of conflicts and actually creation of Yugoslavia only postponed activities towards independences of nations.
Did he make 7 minutes without mentioning US imperialism in Eastern Cuba?
THE BRAIN....
Many appear to have trouble placing Chomsky along ideological lines. I think there is a unifying principle to his public speech and writing - we are responsible for our own actions, we can choose to not do any evil. And as an American, he believes he has the responsibility to persuade other Americans to push for policy changes in that vein, since the US is a democracy.
Chomsky is an anarchist.
He's a realist
Well.. is a country where money can give you the office,, a real democracy ?? I call it illusion of democracy.
Did you say AmeriCIA is a democracy !!!????lmfao 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What he is saying about the Mafia principle also explains a lot about what we are doing in Ukraine. Serbia has always functioned as a kind of little Russia. Now that Russia has gotten uppity the Mafia principle dictates that Russia must get punished. Instead of looking for peace we look for the preservation of dominance. At the cost of bloodshed and a threat to the future of humanity.
Starting a criminal lanndgrabbing war is now called getting"uppity"???!
You'd think the Russian troll farms would be shut down at this point, but I guess the psy-ops are too valuable for Putin to stop.
How much does it pay? I'm willing to shitpost for mother Russia if it fills my fridge. Seriously. Message me.
What a bunch of bullshit, people should do their own research.🤣
First Croatia like others held a referendum in 1991 in which those 83% who voted, voted to leave Yugoslavia by 93% saying yes.
After that we formally didn't do anything because EU asked us for a three month moratorium, its only then that the war happens because some Serbs were unhappy while others dreamt of Greater Serbia.
Its a lie that anyone was for Croatian independence at the start, an embargo was even put on us.
Also about the lie of no rights for Serbs google Plan-Z4 which would defacto give Serbs a country inside Croatia, they declined it because they though they would win 🤣
5:15 is the only time he speaks the truth
My comment is for Pirate Jack. Please just don't go there man. Just don't
The Serb minority in Bosnia and Croatia weren't in any danger before the Serb controlled Yugoslav army attacked. They would've been citizens of these new countries and had full voting rights that come with that. The Serbs turned the breakup into a war of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
type 'weight of chains' by boris malagurski and see if what is said sounds logical
I listened Serbian nationalists in nineties all the time, populistic anti regime nationalist like Malagurski cant be much better
We should start: The Noam Chomsky Doctrine. For the survival of humanity and a much better world!
Exactly!
Wee Fishy you're an unoriginal bitch who parrots right wing talking points.
Eww just no.
The Nazis couldn't destroy Yugoslavia in 1941, well, they did it in 1991...
6:47 ''we have documentation''------------Karl Marx described and analysed it 200 years ago
Who won the war? That one is easy... Just take a note in which language most comments are made by ex yugoslav nations commenters :-D
fun fact - they all sound and read more or less the same
The people who survived won
Who Won ? Nazi GERMANY
Bravo Mr. Chomsky. very correctly explained.
' The US applies "The Maffia Principle"* since the Second World War. '
* 05:00 That's all you need to know about International Politics.
Tell us about your friend Jeffrey?
"A third of the population of Croatia is Serbian". Last Yugoslav census (1981): Serbs in Croatia = 11.6%
33% would be a third...11% is a nineth...today not they are not more than 4%
Yeah, Chomsky really spew the imperialistic Serbian propaganda here. He even mentions ww2. Here is the the thing. Germany did support Croatia. Croatia did ensure constitutional right to ALL minorities and no Croatian threatened any Serb.
Serbian national television however lied to their people that its an ustasha state, and they listened.
The reason Serbs left Slovenia alone is because Slovenians answered with guns (Croatia wanted slow but steady leave, kinda like what UK did with Brexit), not diplomacy and they didnt let Serbs play the victim. So Serbs left. Croatians werent prepared at all for what was coming next.
Roman Genzic
Accept that he cited nothing nor is this the Croatian boarders that they wanted as those boarders have a much larger Serb population!
@@miketheman4341 Last Yugoslav consensus. Thats quite a quote wouldnt you say...
Cyco Miles
Yes and it’s not a consensus! The state that was to be Croatia has nothing to do with the Croatia listed here and absolutely nothing is cited! Nothing!
I could claim that in 1981 Croatia had a population that was 80% gay men but where is the evidence?
Serbia was the last pocket of the ideology of ethno-nationalistic chauvinism in Yugoslavia, a remnant of the imperialistic pet projects of the 19th-20th century European Powers and as such was an obstacle to the plan of the pacification and European integration of the Balkans. The Serb political elites did not want to accept the fact that the age of repressive ethno-national chauvinism was over and that a new age was about to begin. The conflict in Kosovo between the Albanians and the Serb state was 87 years old and it did not start with the US. It was created by the European Powers, mainly Russia and it begun in 1878 with the expulsion of the Albanians from Nish and Sandzak. Serbia had been systematically implementing a century of anti-Albanian policies without ever being questioned or being called to take responsibility. The US saw an opportunity and took it. Whatever the interests of the US may have been, the bombing campaign was most welcome by every single Albanian around the world. The Serb state terror had to end once and for all. Chomsky talks the big politics, obviously without having the slightest idea about the roots of the conflict and the impact on the Albanian people both in ex-Yugslavia and in Albania.
He also downplays the atrocities commited by the Serbs and invents conspiracy theories as to why NATO intervened.
Croatia actually said 'Danke Deutschland'
1:12 ''......the wanted to restore they influence in the Balkans''---------------------Yes like 1941. Yugoslavia was 50/50. UK/Russia.
obozavam kad se prepirete na engleskom a svi znate isti jezik! Nego ko je na kraju pobedio i sta se dobilo pobedom on objasnjava kako je amerika drzava koja je pocinila i dan danas cini najvise genocida,a vi se uhvatili sto smo se mi sve skupa poubijali ni milion
As the last war has shown, Serbs' behavior exemplifies the case of colonial minorities elsewhere-from French in Algeria & British in Zimbabwe to Russians in Chechnya & Central Asian Republics. They either rule as a privileged caste or flee to their motherland when the system of exploitation, which they have been so avid a part thereof, breaks.
@Genes It has nothing to do with "race", but with the defeat of expansionism & exploitation. The same happened to Germans in Poland, Czechoslovakia, English in Ireland, British in American revolutionary war, Russians in Estonia, Italians in Yugoslavia, ...and will happen to Castillans in future independent Catalonia.
@Jotaro97 Oh yes, it will. Just wait & see.
@Jotaro97 Years 1991 & 1992: Serbs are 11% of Croatia’s & 33% of Bosnia & Herzegovina population. They support Slobodan Milošević’s pan-Serbian movement which took JNA/Yugoslav Army under Serbian control. This Army has been financed by all Yugoslav republics (Serbia plus Montenegro 36%, Croatia 28%, Slovenia 19%,..). So, Serbs literally “stole” all these planes, tanks, ships, rockets, guns, howitzers, … and, via their fifth column, first Croatian Serbs, then BiH Serbs, embarked upon their provincial imperial expansion: they wanted to occupy the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina & ca. 70% of Croatia. This was a combined aggression: Serbia proper + Montenegro +JNA + local Serbs.
Had they not possessed/stolen all others’ arms, there would have been no war.
Yugoslavia was dominated by Croat Tito and Slo and Cro people in power. Serbs were victims of Croatoslavia.
Why there was no autonomous provinces for Dalmatia and Slavonia?
Why Jasenovac wasnt preserved and Serb Holocaust was silented?
How come Serbs had no right to be independent from Croatia and Croats had from YU?
Why Goli otok was for Serbs and not for Croats?
Why Croats were not punished and answered for their genocide in ww1 and ww2?
Why Serbia was poor while Croatia prospered from taking riches from Serbia and using it as cheap recources. . .
@@josipag2185
* during 1918-1939 period, Yugoslavia was basically a softer version of Greater Serbia, with all nations-except Slovenes- oppressed. Close to 400 Croats & ca. 2000 Muslims had been killed by Serbian paramilitaries & government forces during the “peaceful” period in the 1920s & 1930s. The turning point was assassination of Croatian leader Stjepan Radić, a sort of Croatian Gandhi, by a Serb nationalist in Yugoslav parliament in 1928. This convinced some Croats that any Yugoslavia was insufferable, and the most influential among them was future Poglavnik/”Leader” Ante Pavelić, who emigrated & founded a revolutionary terrorist organization ustaše (ca. 200-300 people).
* after the collapse of Yugoslavia in the April war 1941, the situation in Croatia & Bosnia and Herzegovina was something like a vacuum. No Croatian politician wanted to become the head of state patronized by Nazi German authorities, but at the same time there was a sense of jubilation: Croats got independent (in theory) country, after decades of Serbian oppression. In this vacuum, Pavelić was installed by Hitler and Mussolini as a kind of puppet. In this country, ca. 50-60% were Croats & more than 30% were Serbs (the rest were Bosnian Muslims, considered to be Croats).
* Pavelić assumed power on April the 10th 1941. But even a week before that, Serb paramilitaries had started killing Croats & some 200-400 people were killed in the interregnum. After he had been installed, Pavelić actually dissolved parliament & established a dictatorship; Croatia was crippled & many vital areas, especially in Dalmatia, were given to Mussolini’s Italy. Also, he introduced racial laws for Jews & started to persecute Serbs- both as a revenge for their participation in royalist Yugoslavia period terror & their atrocities during interregnum. In the next few months perhaps 5-20,000 Serbs were killed by ustaše in various areas of NDH/Independent State of Croatia.Basically, it was a terrorist regime & most Croats disapproved of it, but were expecting to get rid of ustaše in some future & retain statehood under democratic circumstances. So, Croats wanted a truly independent country.
* Serbs, being persecuted (along with Jews & Gypsies) rebelled on a massive scale in the last quarter of 1941 & many areas of NDH had become virtually defunct. This resulted in further Pavelić’s dependence to Hitler. On the other hand, communist partisans, led by a Croat, Josip Broz Tito, after their defeat in Serbia fled with remnants of their army to the NDH territory. There, they found refuge among Serbs, while many of them defected to royalist Četniks led by Serbian colonel Mihailović. Četniks killed during 1941, ca. 12-15,000 Muslim & Croat civilians, mostly in the eastern Bosnia regions.From 1941-1945 there was a civil war in all of Yugoslavia, with various factions fighting for different aims. In Croatia, more Croats had been coming to partisans, especially after 1943 (fall of Italy) & thus partisans became a respectable force. For instance, Croatia had 5 partisan corpses (4 of them with a clear Croatian majority), while Slovenia had 2, Bosnia & Herzegovina 2, Serbia proper 2 etc.
* in May 1945, the war was over & partisans had won. But, in 2- 6 weeks after the end of war, they committed mass atrocities, killing ca. 80,000-150,000 Croatian soldiers & civilians, perhaps 10,000 Serbian Četniks & up to 4,000 Slovenian white guards.Modern unbiased historical investigations have dispelled many myths, especially those re number of victims in Yugoslavia & NDH in particular. In sum, in all of Yugoslavia, ca. 500,000 Serbs had died unnatural deaths & this included some 300,000 Serbs in NDH. Of these, perhaps over 100,000 had been killed by ustaše, while others died of typhoid, were killed by Germans, Četniks etc. Among Croats, ca. 200- 250,000 died of unnatural causes, virtually all of them in NDH on various sides. Percentage-wise, the biggest losses were among Bosnian Muslims, over 80,000.
i hope that the us and their allies understand now after the afghanistan and iraq wars that reforms in form of imposed social engineering do not always work out.
Yugoslavia did not "disintegrate" it was dismembered by Clinton with the complicity of Germany and France.
0:08 ''US role was not honourable''---------US was a Geman poodle...
So, according to Mr. Chomsky separation of Slovenia was ok because it was "part of the west anyway" but in case of Croatia the federal army had to protect integrity of the country. I thought Mr. Chomsky was smarter. Probably old age kicks in.
he meant to say that there were no national minorities in Slovenia (read Serbs) as opposed to Croatia which had a large chunk of territory (cca 30%) controlled by Serbs, which made around 12-15% of total population (500k vs around 4m).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina
mlynto he was wrong
@@wudzah you really dont know what are you talking about, right?
SAO krajina has nothing with Yugoslavia before war
@@ivans1308 Brate, to sto si rekao nema nikakvog smisla. Ajde razmisli, pa opet kazi.
Sir Geoffrey Nice Q.C. would hand Chomsky his on a platter if this was debated. Gresham College has a full lecture on Milosevic's trial, Nice was the lead prosecutor. The evidence is overwhelming.
Milosovic was exonerated, or found not guilty of genocide. Too late for him though, he had already been killed by the withholding of vital heart medication.
Please.....
@@btjmrp actually you are correct, he was found not guilty, they used some pity excuses with corruption (which there was, a lot), but for crimes no.
God bless you
when I hear people like NC to say that third of population of Croatia was Serbian, I just don't understand how that wrong info came out to public, and why someone like him would some like him perpetuate such an obscure info??
last population census from 1991. (done by Yugoslavian, not Croatian, statistical institute) there were in Croatia cca 4.700.000 people in total, of which cca 3.700.000 Croats, 580.000 Serbs, 110.000 Yugoslavians, 45.000 Muslims, and so on... so there were 12% of population Serbs, so war wasn't because of how many Serbs were in Croatia...to say something like that is a joke, and I really didn't take NC as a joke... disappointed
The Vance-Owen peace plan was in 1993, not in 1992, the war was already raging when the plan was proposed in Geneva. And it was the Bosnian Serb assembly in Pale that rejected it. They even had a referendum on it. It would be important to get those facts straight.
I am disappointed by Mr. Chomsky. He has every right to believe whatever he wants, but he needs to tell the truth. He also didn’t mention anything about the civilians being killed in kosovo. He should have at least mentioned it.
@@JJ-zg7ug yes. i'm very disappointed that he doesn't know facts and still he talks about it.
@@kataz7786 he knows the facts. He only uses them selectively and selects those that fit his thesis. It is sad how much science suffers by elevating people of such harmful provenance to a pedestal.
@@blasteriroquai you are a neonazi, you made up lies and you hate him for saying the truth.
He obviously mixed up names of the peace plans. He was referring to Carrington-Cutileiro plan, which was indeed in 1992, and Alija Izetbegovic withdrew his signature after meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia. You can check the "Peace plans proposed before and during the Bosnian War" wikipedia page for more information and sources.
When he mentioned the first one to get out of Yugoslavia being Slovenia, and that not being big deal, I mean, I kinda felt like he was indirectly taking shots at Zizek.
No, mostly referring to big cultural difference between Slovenia and other nations that were a part of Yugoslavia. Slovenia was always like a quiet and talented step-child, from the first marriage and rich one might I add, which you kinda understand but not completely, that was just waiting on to turn 18 so it could leave the home (Yugoslavia).
Comparing to the other wars in Yugoslavia Slovenia was nothing. There was no ethnic hatred there. It was just Slovenia vs Yugoslavia proper.
@@vladimirvujcic3659 It also didn't cause strategic/logistical issues. In fact, there are some internal memos from the copresidency where they mention that it might be beneficial to have a friendly non-yugoslavian nation between them and Europe.
I tend to think that Milosovic started turning the wheels at that time, realizing that things were about to change, to make sure that he was situated optimally at all times. This is when he started really pumping up SAO Krajina using borrowed money and Serbian Nationalists under the guise of minimizing the knock-on effects of the economic downturn after Slovenia's departure. It can be argued that this was actually intended to make Croatia and Bosnia really nervous. Which it obviously DID. So the SAO Krajina was declared a non-legal entity.
THAT moment can be seen as the moment where all the pent up nationalism boiled over and a near *necessity* to redraw the borders was forced on a country without the tools to do so.
Sprinkle in foreign ignorance and local malfeasance and boom. 100k dead. And Karadzic's frickin' daughter is the mayor of a city right outside of Sarajevo. Thumbs up. Nailed it.
Who?
@@vladimirvujcic3659 The urge to leave "home" was only accelerated AFTER
Milosevic came to power in servis.
...criminal principal...humans does not have IQ more than 36.....
How few people are NOT brainwashed.
It's not the Bosniaks that rejected the Vance-Owen plan. It was the Serbs. What is Chomsky talking about?
Ефендиа Вакуфац прочитај хрватског историчара Давор Маријан који каже за рат у Босну крив Еф Изетбеговић према томе Срби нису криви треба престати сатонизацију Србију
@@432milton Lijep ti pravopis. Hajd sad za domaći popravi greške i još čitaj tog hrvatskog povjesničara.
Bottled water? Please don't buy bottled water.
Christine Purdy I imagine he's reused a bottle
Fook off
Our Salvation
: 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting
life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the
world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe
is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the
only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the
light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates
the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be
exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds
may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”...Jesus Christ
is the Savior and the Judge...Repent , for the Kingdom of Heaven is
near...Bible .
Mr Chomsky, with all due respect, you are correct on most of your analysis , however as a former resident of Yugoslavia, can i just point out the break up of that wonderfull, majestic country had nothing to do with human rights, religious freedom, territorial disputes or even political differences. Plans for the break up and disenteration of of Titos Yugoslavia were drawn in the early 50 just after Tito told Stalin where to go with his Totalitarian schemes. Europe of today, the so called EU should be thankfull to marshal Tito for giving them the model on how to unite and work together. Its sad to see today that the current EU nations are so disenchanted and racist . They would would rather accept 5 million middle Eastern Refugees than accept smaller European countries in the EU. So much for logic.
We be,ieved in Brotherhood and Unity (Bratstvo i Jedinstvo). Chomkey is an old fool who does not understand that desinte3gration of Yugoslavia was mostlyg caused by Serbian communists, who transformed into nationalists and tbhen Serbian fascists...who initicated the war by using Yugoslav amry nmostly with Serbian officers, and thugs enmployed byt Milosevic, Karadzic and Mladic...
"EU should be thankfull to marshal Tito for giving them the model on how to unite and work together." What, he did exactly the same thing as any other communist, kill people until they shut up... One could say yugoslavia was a sort of a warcrime...
order=borders, no order=no borders=migrations=chaos=salt on patriotism=lasting hate=chauvinism=war? unlikely, with all the great powers and shit, but tito/commies did fuck all, only cause suffering and decay, ffs serfdom was better than irl communism, if you add enough brainwash into the mix it will instead of proceeding to nationalism just stop at chaos and eventually lead to extinction of a nation and the worst thing, that brings with it is, lack of love... leads to decay...
@@rockrl98 Tito managed to keepo Yugoslavia from oiutside iraon curtain imposed by the Soviets, as Tito had enough snmarts to avoid being kiulled by Stalin and kept Yugoslavia in between West and East. AEconomy was mixed and farmers could keep their land and produce unlike in colective farms in USSR...and elsewhere.. People could also have small businesses..and travel freelhy to and from Yugoslavia.
I KNOW, as I was born and lived in Yugoslavia untill leaving in 1971 for personal reasons...Tito promoted idea of Brotherhood and Unity...which was not such a bad idea...his main failure was to leave good successor mnechanism as he was a President for
Do not blame others for Serbian (and less Croatian) nationalism for the break up of Yugoslavia when Communism failed after 1989...MIiosevic and Serbs who supported him are guilty for this uncivil war while this time Muslims and Croatisain Bosnisa were main victims... EU and UN were total dunces in dealing with this stupid war...
@@vlastamolak1156 "Chomkey is an old fool" - Professor Chomsky is one of the smartest people out there, all of his scientific work and international recognition of his work speak in favor of that. Just because you disagree with his views on breakup of Yugoslavia doesn't make him an "old fool" and doesn't give you the right to slander him.
"The percentage of those declaring themselves as Serbs, according to the 1991 census in Croatia, was 12.2% (78.1% of the population declared itself to be Croat)" not one third as Chomsky says .... if you can't get that right then how much weight can you place on anything else Chomsky says on this issue? There was a vote and an overwhelming majority of people in Croatia voted for independence through parliamentary elections .... you either support democracy or you don't.
According to him the Croats just wanted to be Nazis again. Its not like there were any other reasons they wanted independence right
Problem is that most Serbs refused to participate in any state census so that data was a very low estimated guess
Census aren't infallible. Serbs could abstain from participating
A Sleepy Joe analysis of the disintegration of Yugoslavia
Slobo against the machine.
This is totally incorrect. He does not know the basic facts about the start of the war and has obviously no idea that the start of the war was based and the Yugoslav People's Army initiative against Slovenia and against the TO - 'Teritorijalna obrana' (the republic army) which was stripped of guns and ammo in May 1990 and is to be considered the start of the war in Croatia.
Hahahahahah You F. liars .I am glad you have seceeded. TO means homeland army (reservists dad's army) and is under command of the federal army (JNA).Like Homeland security is under command of US Army .Imagine homeland army in California starts shootng at US Army and starts blocking their barracs ?Hahahahahahahahh.They will be wiped in 2 seconds....Unless EU helps it happens in USA .Hahahahahahah.....And the were speedily and intesively Amed by BND (Germany)......But BND bribred Army officers and Milosevic big time and that was the end of USA, pardon Yugoslavia
ua-cam.com/video/EuXviI9YFbM/v-deo.html