The Riddlers reform is where he goes from Sociopath, to being an outright psychotic. "How Did HE DO IT!!! I HAVE TO KNOW!!!" Ultimatly the batman is the one who completely shatters the riddles ego, and sends him into a psychotic rage.
I think this show why Riddler works so well in the Arkham games. There you can make his puzzles and riddles challenging because there’s the added layer of having a player taking on the challenge of solving them. For shows and movies, you’re trying to keep Batman and the audience from out racing each other to the solutions; in games, they are one and the same.
Very good insight and I was scrolling down to see if someone had made it. It's fitting he's a game designer in BTAS -- video games are where he can thrive! Not just that, but as possibly one of the most memorable of Batman's rogues gallery! (he's becoming ever more relevant, as his attitude in the Arkham games reminds me of *so many* people on Reddit these days etc.)
One of the BTAS tie-in comics (post redesign) had one of my favorite Riddler moments. He ends up being busted by Batman even though he could've gotten away scot-free, but felt compelled to leave behind a clue. Like he couldn't help himself. His speech at the end breaks my heart. "I didn't plan to go back to Arkham, but I think I have to now. I need help. I'm afraid I might actually be crazy..."
That is because he was a Sociopath, and batman shattered his mentality to be a completely Psychotic criminal. "HOW!!! HOW DID HE DO IT!?! I HAVE TO KNOW!?!" That is the moment he completely lost what little sanity he had remaining. And it was partly Batmans fault.
@@ethankoernke1329 Nigma's superiority complex and need to be smarter than everyone else is the fault of his Father, part of outsmarting someone is being able to control their choices, but if you don't know the rules of the game you can't play. That's what broke him.
The fact he's considered "one of the lowest in ranking" compared to the others, still shows how much they were able to do. While the episodes were not that memorable, they were still enjoyable as a kid. They're not "bad," especially compared to some things we've seen since.
Most villains that weren’t Joker only got at most thee episodes where they were the sole antagonist. They should have just put him in more villain team up episodes. Like actually give him dialogue in trial. I feel they nailed his characterization and John Glover is still the voice I hear when I read a riddler story.
John Glover is great. One thing that really amuses me is that he has no recollection of playing The Riddler and didn’t even watch BTAS until he started doing conventions a few years ago. Now he’s really proud to have been a part of it!
I liked this version of the Riddler. The outfit is stylish and conveys he is a thinker. His traps at the minotaur's maze were interesting and creative, Batman's unorthodox solutions were fun to watch. The sheer confident smugness of leaving clues for Batman while appearing to reform were very enjoyable, his deathtrap was one of the closest times that the caped crusader ever came to death, and Batman's Indiana Jones style solution was very creative.
The riddler is my favorite villain due to the chaotic energy of the live action 60s Riddler. I enjoyed the Riddler in BTAS, but it did feel disappointing that it wasn’t so much detective stories as it was experimental toy gadget themed villain. But that is a fair enough interpretation of the comics, in its own way
Yeah I agree. David Wise himself pointed out that his Riddler was more of a puzzler than the Riddler. I do enjoy his three episodes for the most part, but they could’ve done more with him.
@@SerumLake done watching your video on the Riddler and I can't help but wonder if the character would've benefited greatly if his obsession with riddles came from the fact that no matter how smart he perceives himself to be said villain could never come up with actual good riddles to present to Batman much like the writers wracked their heads around writing the episodes or to put it more simply, leaning on the idea of inadequacy and incompetence.
@@SerumLakeThis all gives me flashbacks to my middle school math teacher who rewarded good behauvior by showing us episodes Adam West's Batman, because it was perfect show. His argument was that it had perfect set up of being action show gor kids while being comedy for adults. I don't personally agree, but can't argue against his logic. Multiple times he mentioned that only reason Riddler is still relevant today was because how much his actor breathed life into him in the show
I like the show's version of the Riddler a lot, personally. It strikes a nice balance between making him sympathetic but also making him a little bastard who thinks he's better than everyone. I don't think it's as good as a lot of the other reinterpretations in terms of being a nuanced character, and the episodes have their flaws, but the reason the Riddler is one of my favourite villains is because he's fun! Plus, that balance is something a lot of versions of the character struggle with. It seems like the silliness of his gimmick and history makes it easier to write him as either a total joke because of it or an edgelord to try and compensate, neither of which I find particularly enjoyable. I think he's at his best when he's a smart, motivated guy who's also a gigantic dumbass with a love of theatrics. The tie-in comics absolutely improve on giving him an arc, though, even if it's a little bit cramped. Also him trying to get Batman to stay for a dinner date, failing, and deciding the appropriate next step is to attempt to take control of nukes is fucking hysterical. Perfect "why are you LIKE this" moment.
@@orlandojosemoraamaya363 thanks to what? I don't understand your acronyms. Either way I disagree it's "everyone" as I've not heard anyone express a problem with Arkham Riddler before and I like him as a version.
@@Scrinwaipwr to each it's own, plus he Is Hated for the fact that he put to Many Damm riddles AND trophies AND he's to arrogant AND a waste of space in the following games
@@orlandojosemoraamaya363 he's supposed to be arrogant; he has narcissistic personalty disorder. But yeah there were a lot of those trophies and some were in stupid hard places (like how did he even put them there?)
This is an example of why Riddler is the best character at his peak, it is because you are forced to be smart with him if you want to do him right, which is why despite the fact that he is the hardest to make in any media, when done right he can be the most fun to write, use, and experience
I think one of the best things they ever did with him in the comics was to have him go straight and become a P.I. I always felt it gave him something more interesting to do than be a villain.. Having him be a person who started out as a supervillain but who realized it was more satisfying to try to beat Batman at his own game and be a rival instead... I think that gave him a much stronger personality... And differentiated him from Batman's rogues... it's too bad they wiped that all clean.
The Batman version of the Riddler was much better. There they actually could write a number of puzzles and schemes that worked for him. Like sending the police and Batman on a whild bomb chase while he went after the personal data and information of everyone in Gotham.
Oddly enough, I think the Riddler was actually portrayed a little better in The Batman cartoon. A gothic but tragic villain while the Riddler in BTAS was actually one of the least crazy/tragic characters in the show. He's just narcissistic to a fault, really. Which makes him pale in comparison to the maddening pathos of the others in Batman's rouges gallery. Still a fun character though.
You can't help but notice how The Batman's Riddler was a development of this one. They took the computer genius VR theme from What is Reality? and ran with it.
I think theres a goldie locks zone for the riddler. You often get "so up his own butt about his intelligence that he becomes an annoying cry baby when he loses" or "malicious mastermind to the point where the riddle thing becomes a spot of dissonance in the character." I think one of my favorite characterizations of him was actually in that Justice League Action thing. He offers his help to the heroes because A) everything is a riddle that he only can solve, B) he loves to show that off and C) he cannot stand the idea of someone taking his shtick of playing mental games with his opponents. It also has a scene where he literally can't stop himself from answering a riddle he knows the answer for. It paints a picture of a man who not only has an overinflates sense of self importance but is obsessively compelled to act on it.
It's funny seeing this because I grew up playing the arkham games, that has, for me, one of the best adaptations of the Riddler. Mostly, because it had all those past adaptations to show what works and what doesn't work when adapting the character to a darker universe. He looks so easy to make it work nowadays 😂
I always wondered why there were so few Riddler episodes and never knew Riddlers appeared so few times in the comics. I should have known though, because while playing with my Kenner BTAS figures I always tried to do Riddler episodes and was looking for a book of riddles for ideas. I was only 12 or 13 and too lazy or not smart enough to think of any riddles. Very insightful video.
In a series of legendary actors hamming it up, Frank Gorshin came in acting his butt off. He's the only guy that got Batman '66 an acting Emmy nod. I think he deserves to have a big impact on the character going forward.
I think that The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy is basically a Riddler-less Riddler story. All they had to do is change the villain's name. Their characterisations are more or less the same, and the Riddler did deduce the Batman's identity in the comics (on several occasions, even). I'm also not sure why the other three episodes are apparently held (by whom?) in low regard. I thought they were great!
Agreed. It would have made for a more unique (but Batman appropriate) villain as opposed to another toy/game themed nemesis. I think all the VR plots would have been great for a Toyman vs Superman script. It would have been the perfect way to get around Superman’s physical superiority and level the playing field for Toyman.
I wonder if Riddler having some of the hardest to solve puzzles in the Arkham Games is revenge by the Btas crew for how hard it was for them to make puzzles in their original run?
“Oh yeah? Well if your so smart, how come you haven’t come up with your own riddler?!” You made some really good points about the riddler. He’s a very difficult character to write. However, btas made me love the riddler as a villain. While he wasn’t in many of the episodes, I still felt they did an amazing job with him. (Except the new animated series.)
I feel like John Glover had the right level of smarminess in his performance. Nigma's voice should radiate arrogance and the TAS version undeniably did. Sounding simultaneously confident with an undercurrent of insecurity. Unlike say Wally Wingert where it's all obnoxiously in your face.
@@djangosusamogus742I am saying they are not fans because they think an aspect of Riddler is obnoxious when that is one of his key character traits! Something they understand the bat universe as much as hollywood which is not at all!
"If you're so Smart, why aren't your Rich?" and "Riddler's Reform" have great endings. Riddler's Reform is super strong overall. But man he had... one line in TNBA? And a brief teamup with Mad Hatter and Bane (with Superman vs Bane as the focus.)
I attribute it to him being the main villain in Batman Forever. Since that film came out The Riddler has been used a lot of times in the comics. I don’t have the exact numbers to hand, but the Riddler had more comic book appearances between 1993 and 2003 than he did from 1948 to 1992.
@@SerumLake I'd put it on the Adam West show. Batman has the most iconic rogues gallery in the business, but I've always thought of the "core 4" of Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman as the top of that pile.
Here's how I think the riddler should be. Make him not care about money or power, but about testing people. Basically he'll be leaving clues everywhere because he wants people to find them. To see what they can and cannot solve. Also, personality wise, I think he should be more calm and sophisticated. The guy who sits back at an armchair and calls batman to inform him of what he has layed out for him, and again to congratulate him when he solves the riddles
I do like John Glover's performance as Riddler. Next to Wally Wingert who voices him in the Arkham games, it's probably my second favourite voice actor for the character.
I really love BTAS Riddler and in the BTAS comics...i felt that they really had original ideas with him and his character. I loved his personality. It's a shame TBA vol 2 got cancelled
I feel the same way. Those last few issues felt really rushed, compared to the slow burn of the Black Mask storyline. It’s a shame the DC editors didn’t think there was a big enough market for TWO comic book series based on Animated Batman shows :(
@@SerumLake yet 14 years later instead of redoing or continuing the storyline they decided to make Batman The Adventures Continue which...the less said about those the better lol. In my heart TBA vol 2 ran it's full story and Riddler reformed (and kept his buzzcut...i will never understand why they made him bald in TNBA)
A good chunk of adaptations keep that piece of trivia in the lore somehow, like the Arkham games (although it isn't really elaborated upon outside of being in his character bio and Batman addressing him as "Nashton" in Arkham Origins and "Nigma" in the other games). The Batman even has his name as "Edward Nigma" on one of the fake ids they find when he's initially arrested which is a detail I really enjoy, I honestly really like what they did with the character in that movie even though it's a VERY nontraditional feeling Riddler.
Wormwood, the villain of The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy, seems similar to the Riddler in his puzzles. His design closely resembles the Riddler, too. I think it might have been a Riddler story, but it didn't work with his MO and was actually aired ahead of [Riddler's origin] story. All speculation on my part, but it fits.
I really like the Riddler, actually, but I completely understand why he was so hard to write. Basically the same reason that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes and then celebrated: he found the stories too much work to write, he had to do a lot of thinking and research to build the mysteries. I first watched Riddler episodes when I was getting very into video games and loved action/puzzle games the most, so his intro episode and "Gordon is trapped in a virtual reality game" episode were especially interesting to me. Heck, Riddler might be one of the reasons why I feel very strongly about creators getting credit and compensation for their work. He might be an arrogant jerk, but he did the work, he created the thing I enjoy playing, he ought to get paid proportionately--that sort of thing.
The Riddler is basically Niles Crane and Tyrion Lannister gone evil. He should have some physical prowess insomuch as he should understand Judo and Jiu-Jitsu, knowing how to manipulate his opponent's strength against him, and using pressure points, or simply employing subterfuge. I really like the potential of the Riddler, but he is difficult to write.
Nah, Riddler doesn’t need to be a physical badass. His genius should allow him to to recruit muscle to fight for him. He works best as a mastermind. The most interesting Batman villains are more mastermind than physical. Joker, scarecrow, Penguin. No one gives two shits about Bane, Killer Croc, KGBeast.
@Linklex7 nah, the Riddler is an ego maniac that likes to best his opponents by outwitting them, which is why he should know some martial arts that use an opponent's skills against them, like those previously listed. Martial intelligence is still intelligence and I could certainly see the Riddler employing pressure points and anatomical leverage to outwit his opponents in a fight. You just lack imagination.
I wasn't disappointed in Riddler as a character, but I felt like the show made him too gimmicky. The first one has that maze, the second one has the nonsense virtual reality thing. Only Riddler's Reform really utilized him in a way that conveyed his character without falling back on the gimmicks and considering that was his last episode, that really saddens me. I will give them though: "How much is a good night's sleep worth? Now *there* is a riddle." is a perfect note to end the first episode on, said over Mockeridge climbing into bed and putting his shotgun within arm's reach.
I was introduced to Batman and general and this show when I was very young. My Dad got me three volume VHS tapes of BTAS. 'If You're So Smart Why Aren't You Rich?' Is still one of my very favorite episodes of the series. "If you fail Mockridge becomes the only good corporate shark... a dead one."
They need to stop trying to make The Riddler the smartest person in the room and start making him believe without a shadow of a doubt that he is the smartest in the room while only having a slightly higher than average intelligence. His downfall is always his ego anyway
I still hold Gorshin as the gold standard, psychotic, darkly whimsical, more than a bit goofy, but still a threat the Dark Knight can't ignore. I think to take some of those goofier elements out is to take away part of Riddler's character, because it is a core part of him. Like, he can be throwing babies into oncoming traffic, but he's still a guy in a green suit covered in question marks fighting a dude dressed as a bat. If you go too far in one direction, you get a washed up lame villain, but too far in the other and you just get a monster that cares more about causing harm than abut the riddles and proving himself the smartest. This Riddler tried to meet the two in the middle, and in some ways it works, but in others it doesn't. Maybe if they had done more with him down the road. Still, it was a much better attempt than the ritualistic baby kidnapper of 'Dark Knight, Dark City' (if you're going to make him more serious, don't undo it by saying a demon was influencing him). I think the new movie also did a pretty good job of meeting the two in the middle. Sure, he's a Zodiac influenced nutjob who sees himself as trying to rid Gotham of its' corruption, but he's also still a weirdo in a green outfit with a question mark, and this time with a gimp mask. Like, he looks goofy, and under the mask he's a nerdy little dweeb. Plus, he still thinks of himself as the smartest in any room, and seems to be on the way to something even closer to the comics by the end of the film. Still, at the end of it all, I'll still look back to Gorshin. He was fun, crazy, whimsical, dangerous, and clever. In short, he was everything a good Riddler should be, at least in my eyes. I do hope one day we can get something else that's really good, but until then I'm happy to just re-watch the old show, and read the comics, which do still feature the occasional good Riddler story. (There was one where he and Batman teamed up to fight the new post-Crisis King Tut, very fun. And the War of Jokes and Riddles was just about the only part of Tom King's run I liked.)
Personally I rather like his first appearance in the show, he gets away and the one who ripped him off got his money yet he didn't get peace of mind and that quote by Bruce about what a good night sleep is worth!!
The underutilization of the Riddler is downright criminal. It's a shame about the many missed opportunities for Batman to better live up to the title, The Great Detective...
It speaks to the show's quality if the Riddler is the Animated Series' greatest failure. Riddler's Reform and his character arc in the spinoff comics managed to make him one of my favorite characters. I'm glad they were able to get a couple of solid stories out of him, even if I'd liked to have seen more. I forget where I heard this, but supposedly Paul Dini wanted to pitch a Riddler episode for Justice League, believing that the two-part format would suit the character's schtick better, but the writing team decided to try to focus on exploring new characters instead. A fine decision, though I'd have loved to see that show's take on him. It'd have been fun to see him matching the League with his wits alone.
I vaguely recall hearing Dini saying the same thing about the Justice League episode. I think there was an embargo on using Batman villains at the time - the Warner executives thought that viewers would get confused with The Batman cartoon 🤷♂️
@@SerumLake The Embargo was in put in place for Unlimited, but the first two seasons were allowed to use Batman characters. Joker, Harley, Alfred, Clayface and Firefly show up a few times. The Batman cast wasn’t used much during those two seasons because they’d already done so much with them, and the creative team wanted to prioritize on exploring characters they hadn’t worked as much with before.
my first introduction to Batman the animated series was through a Adventures of Batman and Robin video cassette tape that had The episodes if you're so smart why aren't you rich? and Riddler's reform.
When I hear things like the three main Riddler episodes not being held in high regard it makes me grateful I’m unfamiliar with these apparent “consensuses”, because I’ve always considered these three fun and inventive.
If anything, the later The Batman series did even more to separate Riddler from the Adam West more comical version given in that version he had a Marilyn Manson type of look with a more sinister, almost hateful nature to his riddles (going back to his termination at his job) added in with the calmer, darker speech patterns as provided by Freddy Krueger himself.
I wasn’t a fan of the design of The Riddler, but his episodes were well written. Casting Robert Englund was an interesting choice that paid off, because he was really good.
I actually like the design, due to it simply being not how we see the guy, not unlike how the Batman Beyond suit isn't made out of fabrics or metal plates. I would also call it more utilitarian, even if a bit impractical by showing off skin... at least magical girl outfits like the TSAB barrier jackets and Homura Akemi's conservative stoicwear felt more protective.
i love the riddle as a villian my i do enjoy the riddler as both "good guy" and one of batman villians who dont kill as seen in riddle speech where he ask if meeting where rule was changed when he talks about even joker is killing
I think the Riddler could be a good way to discuss OCD in a Batman show I have seen comics where Riddler knows he needs to stop leaving clues behind but finds it impossible.
He displays behaviour harmful to himself has some awareness it is occurring but cannot stop even on a subconscious level. He has had comics where he underestimates his own compulsion and leaves clues without remembering it.
I saw a drawing were it looked like he was holding a question mark with sharp right corners - they should use that as a hand to hand weapon in a Riddler movie were he is more physically fit or maybe has an exo suit that allows that arm to be considerably stronger. Maybe it can have small grenades in it that can be ejected out of the base and can do a few other things.
I thought the batman version of the riddler was pretty good but riddler is batmans smartest villain so i always envisioned him more with the animated series wearing a suit and having the riddler cane. I still think theres a joker that could make it to the big screen thats a mix between paul Dano riddler and jim carreys
The Riddler is one of my favorite Batman villians, and this version was one of my favorites. How many villians can actually say that they out smarted Batman and actually got away? But I agree that he was criminally under used. Which is a shame. He and the Joker go out of their way to challenge Batman directly, as it is all about beating him. Why aren't you rich, and reform were great episodes, and should have launched Nigma into his obsessive compulsion. I wish that had been explored.
See as much as I hate the tendency to reinvent characters to be 'grittier' I think the Arkham Games' iteration is a better direction to at least make him a little more serious. I could see him working as something kinda similar to John Kramer from the Saw series (if a bit less overly-gorey) with him setting up deadly games and puzzles with a general condescending attitude about his own intelligence all the while
His BTAS design was one of my favourites from the show. I quite like him but I can understand how little he'd get used based on how cerebral he is. I hope we can see that snappy smugness of his again, and that classic suit and Zorro mask combo.
The Riddler is one of the most iconic Batman villains of all time, i would definitely put him up there with The Joker and Penguin in terms of importance but he sadly only appeared in BTAS a total of 3 times which for me were great episodes with 'If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You?' being my all time favourite. I always got the impression no one knew what to do with him and he was pretty much reduced to side character status where he made very small appearances in the DCAU during the TNBA & STAS runs. I really wished we had gotten a take on The Riddler similar to the one that was done in the Arkham games series where he had a larger and more creepier presence. I thought the origin story they came up with The Riddler in the show was a very good and believable one, John Glover did an amazing job providing the voice of Riddler and maybe they should have featured him in more team up episodes. Such a shame that one of the classic Batman villains has largely been forgotten but i thought the Matt Reeves movie did a fantastic job in giving us a very dark and sinister take for him, hopefully in the future that we will something like that in animation as he deserves far more love.
Personally the area I think they definitely improved the riddler was in his “know it all” kinda personality. Which has since then gone to multiple versions of the riddler.
I liked this Riddler, they just had such a challenge writing for him the riddles had too be challenging to come up with. His 1st episode was great the other 2 were all right
He was honestly one of my favorite interpretations of the character, and one of my favorite villains. Whereas Gorshin is manic and chewing every scene worse than the Joker, the Animated Riddler was far more intelligent and cerebral. He was restrained, making him seem like an actual match for Batman's wits. It's because of this version the Riddler can be taken seriously and play so well in other adaptations like the Arkham games. Also, the jacket and tie design was sweet.
I said it once I’ll say it again the animated series The Batman has some of THE best villains including making Riddler an actual threatening individual.The only villains I think they missed the dot on were Mr.Freeze and Poison Ivy oh and they’re Harley Quinn was kinda meh
Can sympathize with the B: TAS/TNBA creators here. Even Rocksteady doesn't seem to have a steady way to keep the Riddler stay a memetic bad**s in the Arkhamverse games, while the likes of The Batman 2022 had to give the guy a far different yet still effectively efficient modus operandi that doesn't involve gimmicky traps. Barring that, am admittedly fine with the idea that the DCAU Edward Nygma lost his unique touch (and his higher-than-thou sanity... and his hair... and his fashion taste) after the events of "Riddler's Reform". Would also admit that he and the freaking Scarecrow most likely joined the Legion of Doom after the events of Justice League Unlimited's "Destroyer". Edit: Can also say that The Batman 2004's Riddler is one great example of "don't judge a book by its cover". He may look like some animeish, feminine looking edgelord there, but seeing him in action... gods, Robert Englund sure nailed the iteration so well!
0:42 you see other shows like “the batman” or even “batman: the brave and the bold” get tons of shit for this exact adaptation philosophy. On a side note, while I don’t think “the batman” was especially charitable to the riddler, only having 3 episodes, 1 of which was a 3-way team up, his last appearance, “Riddler’s Revenge” was pretty good.
Before you could own entire seasons on home video, WB released VHS tapes focused on a villain (and Robin), I had the Riddler VHS and watched it often. Annoyingly, I believe only 2 of his 3 episodes were on the tape, what, can’t put 1 more episode on there to complete the saga?! It was missing What is Reality if I recall correctly. Riddler was underutilized, and his episodes feel more same-y than other villains, but I think his material was lifted by the talent of his voice actor. A line he delivers that I still remember fondly: ‘You think I want money? Not anymore. What I want now, is *you*.’
the riddler is still cursed with the issue of writers needing to make puzzles that make him seem clever while not derailing the flow of the story and even if this riddler ain't that great it's still one of his best showings in years (poor man got trashed in the arkham games)
they don't (creators) want to write the Riddler because they have to come up with the riddles and when they due make a movie that cost $300 million they write riddles that don't even match the stories 3rd and final part. For 300 million dollars i would have expected water related riddles that would have been amazing!!!
That was because Edward Nygma has a giant ego, thinking he's better than anyone else, and this version in particular wants to get revenge on the whole City, since he was abandoned and suffered as an orphan child. Awesome movie and villain.
The Riddler is one of my favourite Batman villains but it's so rare to find an adaptation that does his character justice. I think it just demonstrates a real lack of imagination and innovation on the writers part. Unlike the Joker and Two-Face etc, the Riddler can be successfully moulded into many different directions as long as his core aesthetic remains.
Riddler may just be the only villain The Batman cartoon did far better than BTAS. Voiced by Robert Englund, a kind of Marilyn Manson look, and a pretty genuinely sympathetic motive.
Thank you for the video, wonder if you're gonna cover BTAS Scarecrow and Killer Croc as well next up ;), you've already made the one about Clayface didn't you?
I have looked in to Croc and Scarecrow, but BTAS didn’t really put their own stamp on them, as far as I can tell, so they’re fairly low on the list. The Clayface video I have planned is based on some points that came up in the comments of my Classic Hollywood video. I won’t be talking about the comics, so it’ll be a bit different.
@@SerumLake I see, I'll be waiting for a new Clayface video then, and maybe one dedicated to Mr Freeze, as for Croc I really liked the design of BTAS but kinda turned out too dumb as a villain in the long run
I do agree the Riddler didn’t get a lot of spotlight, and it is difficult to write for him. I’m doing some fan fiction where Riddler is playing a background role to other criminals, acting as a decoy for Batman, but letting the others do the heavy lifting. He also knows Batman will catch up with him, so he leaves a trail of Riddles that Batman can only solve after another hint is dropped. Riddler ends up gaining his freedom from Batman in exchange for the information Batman wants. This is the closest he comes to outwitting Batman, as he escapes with his share of the stolen money. Riddler is tough to write, but at the same time I do like this iteration, as he clearly starts to get to the point where Arkham series Riddler is.
It sounds like the creators were too bloody lazy to try and make TAS Riddler work. The only areas where TAS Riddler was handled well were the characterisation and voice performance by John Glover. Ironically, the TAS spinn off comics actually wrote Edward better than the cartoon.
"Too difficult to write" said the BTAS writers. The writers for Darkwing Duck said the same thing about The Liquidator. This Riddler's design, with John Glover's learned yet pompous voice, was the best thing between yesteryear's Frank Gorshin and future Jim Carrey.
There’s a comics storyline, early 1990s, I want to say a Batman annual where Riddler is a cult leader and he viciously murders a bunch of people. It was shocking because I didn’t think he would murder people like that. That being said, maybe writers overthought him. He’s a criminal, he wants money, he wants to prove he’s smarter than everyone especially Batman. Doesn’t need a cheesy riddle, maybe a puzzle, a game, a trail of clues, an elaborate deathtrap. Or, alternatively, completely overdo the cheesy riddles “what’s black and white and red all over” and turn that into a colossal mind screw of some kind. Writers are so good at writing Joker’s headgames, the Riddle is kind of the same thing, a few degrees different.
Riddler is a great villain who when done right, should be the Moriarty to Batman’s Holmers (alongside Hugo Strange). The problem is, the writers admit it themselves, he’s too smart and none of the writers are smart enough to come up with the riddles the Riddler would actually use. Surprised this video just brushed past the new 52 without mentioning Riddler. New 52 Riddler is probably his best and most ruthless form. So evil and dangerous that Batman kinda implies he would save his one kill if he had to do it, for Riddler instead of Joker. Zero Hour was a crossover where Riddler took over the entire city and was the basis for The Batman movie with Pattinson.
These videos are great, but I gotta disagree this time. "If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?" is in my Top 15 Episodes. The show's take on Riddler is fantastic because the narcissism is so pronounced. He's so good, it made him one of my most anticipated foes... Yes, it's a shame that he's hard to write for, but I was always looking forward to more of him, and the rarity of his episodes, like Mr Freeze and Clayface, give him aura that feels more special. Side note, I also like that these stories tend to include Robin (from the TV show to the movie) as a way for the characters to bounce ideas around. Robin is greatly used for Batman to explain the riddles- or in BTAS, for Robin to help Batman with the more game-like material. These episodes tend to showcase problem solving, which I always appreciate.
iysswayr and riddlers reform are two of my favorite btas episodes because he is my favorite villain and I love his design and character in this series (i despise the redesign for tnba). The only other version besides the comics that really does him justice is the Arkham version
The Riddler is so smart that none of the writers could come up with the genius riddles he can.
Exactly!
he should've been in the dcau justice league.
The end of Riddler's Reform with him screaming "HOW DID HE DO IT" even annoyed Joker.
"I have to KNOW!!!!!! I HAVE TO KNOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!" It was like the Joker was saying "Will you shut up,Eddie!!!!!"
He was done so dirty in The Riddler’s Reform episode.
@@jackster9775 he was done REALLY dirty in TNBA.
I love that episode
The Riddlers reform is where he goes from Sociopath, to being an outright psychotic. "How Did HE DO IT!!! I HAVE TO KNOW!!!" Ultimatly the batman is the one who completely shatters the riddles ego, and sends him into a psychotic rage.
I think this show why Riddler works so well in the Arkham games. There you can make his puzzles and riddles challenging because there’s the added layer of having a player taking on the challenge of solving them. For shows and movies, you’re trying to keep Batman and the audience from out racing each other to the solutions; in games, they are one and the same.
Very good insight and I was scrolling down to see if someone had made it. It's fitting he's a game designer in BTAS -- video games are where he can thrive! Not just that, but as possibly one of the most memorable of Batman's rogues gallery! (he's becoming ever more relevant, as his attitude in the Arkham games reminds me of *so many* people on Reddit these days etc.)
Great point. The Arkham games were special.
One of the BTAS tie-in comics (post redesign) had one of my favorite Riddler moments.
He ends up being busted by Batman even though he could've gotten away scot-free, but felt compelled to leave behind a clue. Like he couldn't help himself.
His speech at the end breaks my heart.
"I didn't plan to go back to Arkham, but I think I have to now. I need help. I'm afraid I might actually be crazy..."
I love that comic.
That is because he was a Sociopath, and batman shattered his mentality to be a completely Psychotic criminal. "HOW!!! HOW DID HE DO IT!?! I HAVE TO KNOW!?!" That is the moment he completely lost what little sanity he had remaining. And it was partly Batmans fault.
That's the absolute best Riddler comic, IMO
@@ethankoernke1329 Nigma's superiority complex and need to be smarter than everyone else is the fault of his Father, part of outsmarting someone is being able to control their choices, but if you don't know the rules of the game you can't play.
That's what broke him.
In the "Young Justice" cartoon, Riddler is actually considered to be legally sane and goes to a regular prison rather than Arkham.
His suit is so much better than his leotard.
Agreed.
The fact he's considered "one of the lowest in ranking" compared to the others, still shows how much they were able to do. While the episodes were not that memorable, they were still enjoyable as a kid. They're not "bad," especially compared to some things we've seen since.
I agree. In fact, Riddler’s Reform is one of the best episodes of the entire series. I love the ending so much.
The Riddler from the Arkham verse was no joke.
"What is reality" is one of the best episodes. same with the 1st appearance on BTAS. have to disagree here@@SerumLake
Most villains that weren’t Joker only got at most thee episodes where they were the sole antagonist. They should have just put him in more villain team up episodes. Like actually give him dialogue in trial. I feel they nailed his characterization and John Glover is still the voice I hear when I read a riddler story.
John Glover is great. One thing that really amuses me is that he has no recollection of playing The Riddler and didn’t even watch BTAS until he started doing conventions a few years ago. Now he’s really proud to have been a part of it!
I liked this version of the Riddler. The outfit is stylish and conveys he is a thinker. His traps at the minotaur's maze were interesting and creative, Batman's unorthodox solutions were fun to watch. The sheer confident smugness of leaving clues for Batman while appearing to reform were very enjoyable, his deathtrap was one of the closest times that the caped crusader ever came to death, and Batman's Indiana Jones style solution was very creative.
The riddler is my favorite villain due to the chaotic energy of the live action 60s Riddler. I enjoyed the Riddler in BTAS, but it did feel disappointing that it wasn’t so much detective stories as it was experimental toy gadget themed villain. But that is a fair enough interpretation of the comics, in its own way
Yeah I agree. David Wise himself pointed out that his Riddler was more of a puzzler than the Riddler. I do enjoy his three episodes for the most part, but they could’ve done more with him.
@@SerumLake done watching your video on the Riddler and I can't help but wonder if the character would've benefited greatly if his obsession with riddles came from the fact that no matter how smart he perceives himself to be said villain could never come up with actual good riddles to present to Batman much like the writers wracked their heads around writing the episodes or to put it more simply, leaning on the idea of inadequacy and incompetence.
@@SerumLakeThis all gives me flashbacks to my middle school math teacher who rewarded good behauvior by showing us episodes Adam West's Batman, because it was perfect show. His argument was that it had perfect set up of being action show gor kids while being comedy for adults. I don't personally agree, but can't argue against his logic. Multiple times he mentioned that only reason Riddler is still relevant today was because how much his actor breathed life into him in the show
The idea of making the Riddler into a detective to rival Batman is a great idea. They should've run with that. He can still be a great anti hero.
I like the show's version of the Riddler a lot, personally. It strikes a nice balance between making him sympathetic but also making him a little bastard who thinks he's better than everyone. I don't think it's as good as a lot of the other reinterpretations in terms of being a nuanced character, and the episodes have their flaws, but the reason the Riddler is one of my favourite villains is because he's fun! Plus, that balance is something a lot of versions of the character struggle with. It seems like the silliness of his gimmick and history makes it easier to write him as either a total joke because of it or an edgelord to try and compensate, neither of which I find particularly enjoyable. I think he's at his best when he's a smart, motivated guy who's also a gigantic dumbass with a love of theatrics.
The tie-in comics absolutely improve on giving him an arc, though, even if it's a little bit cramped. Also him trying to get Batman to stay for a dinner date, failing, and deciding the appropriate next step is to attempt to take control of nukes is fucking hysterical. Perfect "why are you LIKE this" moment.
What about the Arkham City version? I think that's a good version. They did most characters pretty well.
@@Scrinwaipwr i think everybody Hates that version of him thanks to AK AND SSKTJL
@@orlandojosemoraamaya363 thanks to what? I don't understand your acronyms. Either way I disagree it's "everyone" as I've not heard anyone express a problem with Arkham Riddler before and I like him as a version.
@@Scrinwaipwr to each it's own, plus he Is Hated for the fact that he put to Many Damm riddles AND trophies AND he's to arrogant AND a waste of space in the following games
@@orlandojosemoraamaya363 he's supposed to be arrogant; he has narcissistic personalty disorder. But yeah there were a lot of those trophies and some were in stupid hard places (like how did he even put them there?)
This is an example of why Riddler is the best character at his peak, it is because you are forced to be smart with him if you want to do him right, which is why despite the fact that he is the hardest to make in any media, when done right he can be the most fun to write, use, and experience
I think one of the best things they ever did with him in the comics was to have him go straight and become a P.I. I always felt it gave him something more interesting to do than be a villain.. Having him be a person who started out as a supervillain but who realized it was more satisfying to try to beat Batman at his own game and be a rival instead...
I think that gave him a much stronger personality... And differentiated him from Batman's rogues... it's too bad they wiped that all clean.
The Batman version of the Riddler was much better. There they actually could write a number of puzzles and schemes that worked for him. Like sending the police and Batman on a whild bomb chase while he went after the personal data and information of everyone in Gotham.
Oddly enough, I think the Riddler was actually portrayed a little better in The Batman cartoon. A gothic but tragic villain while the Riddler in BTAS was actually one of the least crazy/tragic characters in the show. He's just narcissistic to a fault, really. Which makes him pale in comparison to the maddening pathos of the others in Batman's rouges gallery. Still a fun character though.
You can't help but notice how The Batman's Riddler was a development of this one. They took the computer genius VR theme from What is Reality? and ran with it.
And they also had Robet Englund voice the character. He was fantastic in the role.
I think theres a goldie locks zone for the riddler.
You often get "so up his own butt about his intelligence that he becomes an annoying cry baby when he loses" or "malicious mastermind to the point where the riddle thing becomes a spot of dissonance in the character."
I think one of my favorite characterizations of him was actually in that Justice League Action thing. He offers his help to the heroes because A) everything is a riddle that he only can solve, B) he loves to show that off and C) he cannot stand the idea of someone taking his shtick of playing mental games with his opponents.
It also has a scene where he literally can't stop himself from answering a riddle he knows the answer for.
It paints a picture of a man who not only has an overinflates sense of self importance but is obsessively compelled to act on it.
It's funny seeing this because I grew up playing the arkham games, that has, for me, one of the best adaptations of the Riddler. Mostly, because it had all those past adaptations to show what works and what doesn't work when adapting the character to a darker universe. He looks so easy to make it work nowadays 😂
I always wondered why there were so few Riddler episodes and never knew Riddlers appeared so few times in the comics. I should have known though, because while playing with my Kenner BTAS figures I always tried to do Riddler episodes and was looking for a book of riddles for ideas. I was only 12 or 13 and too lazy or not smart enough to think of any riddles. Very insightful video.
In a series of legendary actors hamming it up, Frank Gorshin came in acting his butt off. He's the only guy that got Batman '66 an acting Emmy nod. I think he deserves to have a big impact on the character going forward.
I think that The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy is basically a Riddler-less Riddler story. All they had to do is change the villain's name. Their characterisations are more or less the same, and the Riddler did deduce the Batman's identity in the comics (on several occasions, even). I'm also not sure why the other three episodes are apparently held (by whom?) in low regard. I thought they were great!
Agreed. It would have made for a more unique (but Batman appropriate) villain as opposed to another toy/game themed nemesis. I think all the VR plots would have been great for a Toyman vs Superman script. It would have been the perfect way to get around Superman’s physical superiority and level the playing field for Toyman.
On the bright side at least he didn't make Batman run around collecting riddler trophies.
I wonder if Riddler having some of the hardest to solve puzzles in the Arkham Games is revenge by the Btas crew for how hard it was for them to make puzzles in their original run?
Each riddler episode we did get was great especially Riddler’s Reform. The only failure was not having enough of him.
“Oh yeah? Well if your so smart, how come you haven’t come up with your own riddler?!”
You made some really good points about the riddler. He’s a very difficult character to write. However, btas made me love the riddler as a villain. While he wasn’t in many of the episodes, I still felt they did an amazing job with him. (Except the new animated series.)
I feel like John Glover had the right level of smarminess in his performance.
Nigma's voice should radiate arrogance and the TAS version undeniably did.
Sounding simultaneously confident with an undercurrent of insecurity.
Unlike say Wally Wingert where it's all obnoxiously in your face.
That is the point. It is amazing how little you so call "fans" understand Edward and his portrayal.
@@zemox2534Bro, are you sayin they aren’t fans because they point out something they like about this portrayal?
@@djangosusamogus742I am saying they are not fans because they think an aspect of Riddler is obnoxious when that is one of his key character traits! Something they understand the bat universe as much as hollywood which is not at all!
@@zemox2534 Well i guess he likes this interpretation more. What you mentioned isn’t a constant character trait of the riddler.
"If you're so Smart, why aren't your Rich?" and "Riddler's Reform" have great endings. Riddler's Reform is super strong overall. But man he had... one line in TNBA? And a brief teamup with Mad Hatter and Bane (with Superman vs Bane as the focus.)
I find it so interesting how we consider him "one of batman's most notorious villains" despite him being so underserved.
I attribute it to him being the main villain in Batman Forever. Since that film came out The Riddler has been used a lot of times in the comics. I don’t have the exact numbers to hand, but the Riddler had more comic book appearances between 1993 and 2003 than he did from 1948 to 1992.
@@SerumLake I'd put it on the Adam West show. Batman has the most iconic rogues gallery in the business, but I've always thought of the "core 4" of Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman as the top of that pile.
Here's how I think the riddler should be. Make him not care about money or power, but about testing people. Basically he'll be leaving clues everywhere because he wants people to find them. To see what they can and cannot solve.
Also, personality wise, I think he should be more calm and sophisticated. The guy who sits back at an armchair and calls batman to inform him of what he has layed out for him, and again to congratulate him when he solves the riddles
That would work pretty nicely
I do like John Glover's performance as Riddler. Next to Wally Wingert who voices him in the Arkham games, it's probably my second favourite voice actor for the character.
I really love BTAS Riddler and in the BTAS comics...i felt that they really had original ideas with him and his character. I loved his personality. It's a shame TBA vol 2 got cancelled
I feel the same way. Those last few issues felt really rushed, compared to the slow burn of the Black Mask storyline. It’s a shame the DC editors didn’t think there was a big enough market for TWO comic book series based on Animated Batman shows :(
@@SerumLake yet 14 years later instead of redoing or continuing the storyline they decided to make Batman The Adventures Continue which...the less said about those the better lol. In my heart TBA vol 2 ran it's full story and Riddler reformed (and kept his buzzcut...i will never understand why they made him bald in TNBA)
Am still hoping they'll resurrect Vol. 2 after they're done with the Elseworlds stuff of TAC.
@@milli5968I thought I was the only one who did not care for the Adventures continues comics.
Oh so the riddlers name was Edward Nashton originally? Wow that's something matt reeves brought into the batman movie.
A good chunk of adaptations keep that piece of trivia in the lore somehow, like the Arkham games (although it isn't really elaborated upon outside of being in his character bio and Batman addressing him as "Nashton" in Arkham Origins and "Nigma" in the other games). The Batman even has his name as "Edward Nigma" on one of the fake ids they find when he's initially arrested which is a detail I really enjoy, I honestly really like what they did with the character in that movie even though it's a VERY nontraditional feeling Riddler.
@@skinlizard2251 I was about to say the Arkham games and Lego Batman 1 mentions his real name.
He was so embarrassed by being duped in that contract he abandoned his original identity
Deep
Great video analysis family
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
A good thing about the Riddler episodes was John Glover's voice acting.
Wormwood, the villain of The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy, seems similar to the Riddler in his puzzles. His design closely resembles the Riddler, too. I think it might have been a Riddler story, but it didn't work with his MO and was actually aired ahead of [Riddler's origin] story.
All speculation on my part, but it fits.
This was actually an adaptation of an issue of Detective Comics, pretty much scene for scene, but I agree that it felt so much like The Riddler.
I really like the Riddler, actually, but I completely understand why he was so hard to write. Basically the same reason that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes and then celebrated: he found the stories too much work to write, he had to do a lot of thinking and research to build the mysteries.
I first watched Riddler episodes when I was getting very into video games and loved action/puzzle games the most, so his intro episode and "Gordon is trapped in a virtual reality game" episode were especially interesting to me. Heck, Riddler might be one of the reasons why I feel very strongly about creators getting credit and compensation for their work. He might be an arrogant jerk, but he did the work, he created the thing I enjoy playing, he ought to get paid proportionately--that sort of thing.
The Riddler is basically Niles Crane and Tyrion Lannister gone evil. He should have some physical prowess insomuch as he should understand Judo and Jiu-Jitsu, knowing how to manipulate his opponent's strength against him, and using pressure points, or simply employing subterfuge. I really like the potential of the Riddler, but he is difficult to write.
Nah, Riddler doesn’t need to be a physical badass. His genius should allow him to to recruit muscle to fight for him. He works best as a mastermind. The most interesting Batman villains are more mastermind than physical. Joker, scarecrow, Penguin. No one gives two shits about Bane, Killer Croc, KGBeast.
@Linklex7 nah, the Riddler is an ego maniac that likes to best his opponents by outwitting them, which is why he should know some martial arts that use an opponent's skills against them, like those previously listed. Martial intelligence is still intelligence and I could certainly see the Riddler employing pressure points and anatomical leverage to outwit his opponents in a fight. You just lack imagination.
I wasn't disappointed in Riddler as a character, but I felt like the show made him too gimmicky. The first one has that maze, the second one has the nonsense virtual reality thing. Only Riddler's Reform really utilized him in a way that conveyed his character without falling back on the gimmicks and considering that was his last episode, that really saddens me.
I will give them though: "How much is a good night's sleep worth? Now *there* is a riddle." is a perfect note to end the first episode on, said over Mockeridge climbing into bed and putting his shotgun within arm's reach.
The man who had voiced The Riddler in BTAS was the actor who played in Gremlins 2: The New Batch & in Batman & Robin!
And was Lex Luthor s father in Smallville.
I both really love and miss this show so much and I know it's been shared a lot but rip Kevin Conroy 💔 😔 😢 😪 😞 🙏 💔
I will never stop saying it. He was taken from us too soon.
I was introduced to Batman and general and this show when I was very young. My Dad got me three volume VHS tapes of BTAS. 'If You're So Smart Why Aren't You Rich?' Is still one of my very favorite episodes of the series. "If you fail Mockridge becomes the only good corporate shark... a dead one."
They need to stop trying to make The Riddler the smartest person in the room and start making him believe without a shadow of a doubt that he is the smartest in the room while only having a slightly higher than average intelligence. His downfall is always his ego anyway
I still hold Gorshin as the gold standard, psychotic, darkly whimsical, more than a bit goofy, but still a threat the Dark Knight can't ignore. I think to take some of those goofier elements out is to take away part of Riddler's character, because it is a core part of him. Like, he can be throwing babies into oncoming traffic, but he's still a guy in a green suit covered in question marks fighting a dude dressed as a bat. If you go too far in one direction, you get a washed up lame villain, but too far in the other and you just get a monster that cares more about causing harm than abut the riddles and proving himself the smartest.
This Riddler tried to meet the two in the middle, and in some ways it works, but in others it doesn't. Maybe if they had done more with him down the road. Still, it was a much better attempt than the ritualistic baby kidnapper of 'Dark Knight, Dark City' (if you're going to make him more serious, don't undo it by saying a demon was influencing him).
I think the new movie also did a pretty good job of meeting the two in the middle. Sure, he's a Zodiac influenced nutjob who sees himself as trying to rid Gotham of its' corruption, but he's also still a weirdo in a green outfit with a question mark, and this time with a gimp mask. Like, he looks goofy, and under the mask he's a nerdy little dweeb. Plus, he still thinks of himself as the smartest in any room, and seems to be on the way to something even closer to the comics by the end of the film.
Still, at the end of it all, I'll still look back to Gorshin. He was fun, crazy, whimsical, dangerous, and clever. In short, he was everything a good Riddler should be, at least in my eyes. I do hope one day we can get something else that's really good, but until then I'm happy to just re-watch the old show, and read the comics, which do still feature the occasional good Riddler story. (There was one where he and Batman teamed up to fight the new post-Crisis King Tut, very fun. And the War of Jokes and Riddles was just about the only part of Tom King's run I liked.)
You noticed the Riddler didn't really laugh or giggle he was called smart and dangerous Batman and Robin were the only ones to outsmart him
Personally I rather like his first appearance in the show, he gets away and the one who ripped him off got his money yet he didn't get peace of mind and that quote by Bruce about what a good night sleep is worth!!
Yeah, that last shot of Mockridge cowering in bed was really creepy!
Sure got echoed with Cassidy from TNBA's "Torch Song", such traumatic comeuppances.
The underutilization of the Riddler is downright criminal. It's a shame about the many missed opportunities for Batman to better live up to the title, The Great Detective...
It speaks to the show's quality if the Riddler is the Animated Series' greatest failure. Riddler's Reform and his character arc in the spinoff comics managed to make him one of my favorite characters. I'm glad they were able to get a couple of solid stories out of him, even if I'd liked to have seen more.
I forget where I heard this, but supposedly Paul Dini wanted to pitch a Riddler episode for Justice League, believing that the two-part format would suit the character's schtick better, but the writing team decided to try to focus on exploring new characters instead. A fine decision, though I'd have loved to see that show's take on him. It'd have been fun to see him matching the League with his wits alone.
I vaguely recall hearing Dini saying the same thing about the Justice League episode. I think there was an embargo on using Batman villains at the time - the Warner executives thought that viewers would get confused with The Batman cartoon 🤷♂️
@@SerumLake The Embargo was in put in place for Unlimited, but the first two seasons were allowed to use Batman characters. Joker, Harley, Alfred, Clayface and Firefly show up a few times.
The Batman cast wasn’t used much during those two seasons because they’d already done so much with them, and the creative team wanted to prioritize on exploring characters they hadn’t worked as much with before.
Ah yes, that’s right! I got my Justice Leagues mixed up
@@SerumLake yes that he and Scarecrow would have been in the Secret Society as reference to the Super Friends
@@tyraydew5668 yeah I wish they could used the bat villains and the one offs from Batman TAS because I had some ideas.
my first introduction to Batman the animated series was through a Adventures of Batman and Robin video cassette tape that had The episodes if you're so smart why aren't you rich? and Riddler's reform.
When I hear things like the three main Riddler episodes not being held in high regard it makes me grateful I’m unfamiliar with these apparent “consensuses”, because I’ve always considered these three fun and inventive.
Totally
This is a wild shout to say he was a disappointing character
Riddler has always been my favorite Batman villain. I like that he just tries to use brains and I like the color green.
If anything, the later The Batman series did even more to separate Riddler from the Adam West more comical version given in that version he had a Marilyn Manson type of look with a more sinister, almost hateful nature to his riddles (going back to his termination at his job) added in with the calmer, darker speech patterns as provided by Freddy Krueger himself.
I wasn’t a fan of the design of The Riddler, but his episodes were well written. Casting Robert Englund was an interesting choice that paid off, because he was really good.
I actually like the design, due to it simply being not how we see the guy, not unlike how the Batman Beyond suit isn't made out of fabrics or metal plates.
I would also call it more utilitarian, even if a bit impractical by showing off skin... at least magical girl outfits like the TSAB barrier jackets and Homura Akemi's conservative stoicwear felt more protective.
This makes me appreciate "The Batman" and its reimagined riddler
i love the riddle as a villian
my i do enjoy the riddler as both "good guy" and one of batman villians who dont kill
as seen in riddle speech where he ask if meeting where rule was changed when he talks about even joker is killing
I wasn't say he was a disappointment. I was disappointed at how little they used him.
Very hard to write a decent story for him, I guess!
@@SerumLake they did say that he was difficult to write because of the riddles.
I think the Riddler could be a good way to discuss OCD in a Batman show I have seen comics where Riddler knows he needs to stop leaving clues behind but finds it impossible.
He displays behaviour harmful to himself has some awareness it is occurring but cannot stop even on a subconscious level. He has had comics where he underestimates his own compulsion and leaves clues without remembering it.
I saw a drawing were it looked like he was holding a question mark with sharp right corners - they should use that as a hand to hand weapon in a Riddler movie were he is more physically fit or maybe has an exo suit that allows that arm to be considerably stronger. Maybe it can have small grenades in it that can be ejected out of the base and can do a few other things.
its funny you say hes the disappointing, cause as a kid, I remember him the most. idk why.
Just let him run an escape room. He'd be clean in a month.
I thought the batman version of the riddler was pretty good but riddler is batmans smartest villain so i always envisioned him more with the animated series wearing a suit and having the riddler cane. I still think theres a joker that could make it to the big screen thats a mix between paul Dano riddler and jim carreys
You gotta admit though, his TAS outfit was spectacular. He was very shway.
The Riddler is one of my favorite Batman villians, and this version was one of my favorites. How many villians can actually say that they out smarted Batman and actually got away? But I agree that he was criminally under used. Which is a shame. He and the Joker go out of their way to challenge Batman directly, as it is all about beating him. Why aren't you rich, and reform were great episodes, and should have launched Nigma into his obsessive compulsion. I wish that had been explored.
best riddler design tho
See as much as I hate the tendency to reinvent characters to be 'grittier' I think the Arkham Games' iteration is a better direction to at least make him a little more serious. I could see him working as something kinda similar to John Kramer from the Saw series (if a bit less overly-gorey) with him setting up deadly games and puzzles with a general condescending attitude about his own intelligence all the while
I don't mind I like the voice of the Riddler and how smug he acted in the show
Yeah, John Glover was really good in this role.
His BTAS design was one of my favourites from the show. I quite like him but I can understand how little he'd get used based on how cerebral he is. I hope we can see that snappy smugness of his again, and that classic suit and Zorro mask combo.
My biggest gripe was they just didn't use the Riddler enough in the show. Only three episodes as a main villain then shoved in the background.
That's because it's really hard coming up with challenging riddles.
@@ianfinrir8724 Maybe they could have asked the writers from the Adam West Batman series for help,the Riddler was in a lot of episodes.
i've heard the writers of the show didnt really know how to use him
The Riddler is one of the most iconic Batman villains of all time, i would definitely put him up there with The Joker and Penguin in terms of importance but he sadly only appeared in BTAS a total of 3 times which for me were great episodes with 'If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You?' being my all time favourite. I always got the impression no one knew what to do with him and he was pretty much reduced to side character status where he made very small appearances in the DCAU during the TNBA & STAS runs. I really wished we had gotten a take on The Riddler similar to the one that was done in the Arkham games series where he had a larger and more creepier presence. I thought the origin story they came up with The Riddler in the show was a very good and believable one, John Glover did an amazing job providing the voice of Riddler and maybe they should have featured him in more team up episodes. Such a shame that one of the classic Batman villains has largely been forgotten but i thought the Matt Reeves movie did a fantastic job in giving us a very dark and sinister take for him, hopefully in the future that we will something like that in animation as he deserves far more love.
Personally the area I think they definitely improved the riddler was in his “know it all” kinda personality. Which has since then gone to multiple versions of the riddler.
I liked this Riddler, they just had such a challenge writing for him the riddles had too be challenging to come up with. His 1st episode was great the other 2 were all right
He was honestly one of my favorite interpretations of the character, and one of my favorite villains. Whereas Gorshin is manic and chewing every scene worse than the Joker, the Animated Riddler was far more intelligent and cerebral. He was restrained, making him seem like an actual match for Batman's wits. It's because of this version the Riddler can be taken seriously and play so well in other adaptations like the Arkham games. Also, the jacket and tie design was sweet.
I said it once I’ll say it again the animated series The Batman has some of THE best villains including making Riddler an actual threatening individual.The only villains I think they missed the dot on were Mr.Freeze and Poison Ivy oh and they’re Harley Quinn was kinda meh
Can sympathize with the B: TAS/TNBA creators here. Even Rocksteady doesn't seem to have a steady way to keep the Riddler stay a memetic bad**s in the Arkhamverse games, while the likes of The Batman 2022 had to give the guy a far different yet still effectively efficient modus operandi that doesn't involve gimmicky traps.
Barring that, am admittedly fine with the idea that the DCAU Edward Nygma lost his unique touch (and his higher-than-thou sanity... and his hair... and his fashion taste) after the events of "Riddler's Reform". Would also admit that he and the freaking Scarecrow most likely joined the Legion of Doom after the events of Justice League Unlimited's "Destroyer".
Edit: Can also say that The Batman 2004's Riddler is one great example of "don't judge a book by its cover". He may look like some animeish, feminine looking edgelord there, but seeing him in action... gods, Robert Englund sure nailed the iteration so well!
0:42 you see other shows like “the batman” or even “batman: the brave and the bold” get tons of shit for this exact adaptation philosophy.
On a side note, while I don’t think “the batman” was especially charitable to the riddler, only having 3 episodes, 1 of which was a 3-way team up, his last appearance, “Riddler’s Revenge” was pretty good.
Before you could own entire seasons on home video, WB released VHS tapes focused on a villain (and Robin), I had the Riddler VHS and watched it often. Annoyingly, I believe only 2 of his 3 episodes were on the tape, what, can’t put 1 more episode on there to complete the saga?! It was missing What is Reality if I recall correctly.
Riddler was underutilized, and his episodes feel more same-y than other villains, but I think his material was lifted by the talent of his voice actor. A line he delivers that I still remember fondly: ‘You think I want money? Not anymore. What I want now, is *you*.’
the riddler is still cursed with the issue of writers needing to make puzzles that make him seem clever while not derailing the flow of the story
and even if this riddler ain't that great it's still one of his best showings in years (poor man got trashed in the arkham games)
they don't (creators) want to write the Riddler because they have to come up with the riddles and when they due make a movie that cost $300 million they write riddles that don't even match the stories 3rd and final part. For 300 million dollars i would have expected water related riddles that would have been amazing!!!
That was because Edward Nygma has a giant ego, thinking he's better than anyone else, and this version in particular wants to get revenge on the whole City, since he was abandoned and suffered as an orphan child. Awesome movie and villain.
Pasko literally means "shat" or has shitted in finnish so everytime i see his name i crack up
freeze is a pretty chill guy
The best versions of the riddler has to be the arkham games and the 2022 Pattinson movie. The idea of turning him into a zodiac type killer was genius
The Riddler is one of my favourite Batman villains but it's so rare to find an adaptation that does his character justice. I think it just demonstrates a real lack of imagination and innovation on the writers part. Unlike the Joker and Two-Face etc, the Riddler can be successfully moulded into many different directions as long as his core aesthetic remains.
He’s still 10 times better than Paul Dano’s version.
I actually wanted to have a take on the Riddler, where he calls people at night, asks them a riddle, and then kill them when answering wrong.
Riddler may just be the only villain The Batman cartoon did far better than BTAS. Voiced by Robert Englund, a kind of Marilyn Manson look, and a pretty genuinely sympathetic motive.
I always loved the Riddler episodes and wished there were more.
Thank you for the video, wonder if you're gonna cover BTAS Scarecrow and Killer Croc as well next up ;), you've already made the one about Clayface didn't you?
I have looked in to Croc and Scarecrow, but BTAS didn’t really put their own stamp on them, as far as I can tell, so they’re fairly low on the list.
The Clayface video I have planned is based on some points that came up in the comments of my Classic Hollywood video. I won’t be talking about the comics, so it’ll be a bit different.
@@SerumLake I see, I'll be waiting for a new Clayface video then, and maybe one dedicated to Mr Freeze, as for Croc I really liked the design of BTAS but kinda turned out too dumb as a villain in the long run
@@chojinkid thinking about it a bit more, I do have something to say about their version of Croc… I’ll bump him up the list
I do agree the Riddler didn’t get a lot of spotlight, and it is difficult to write for him. I’m doing some fan fiction where Riddler is playing a background role to other criminals, acting as a decoy for Batman, but letting the others do the heavy lifting. He also knows Batman will catch up with him, so he leaves a trail of Riddles that Batman can only solve after another hint is dropped. Riddler ends up gaining his freedom from Batman in exchange for the information Batman wants. This is the closest he comes to outwitting Batman, as he escapes with his share of the stolen money.
Riddler is tough to write, but at the same time I do like this iteration, as he clearly starts to get to the point where Arkham series Riddler is.
Wow. This is my favorite Riddler incarnation.
I think "The Batman" took what BTAS started with the Riddler and gave us the finished product. They did a much better job with him on that cartoon.
And Robert Englund killed it too.
I think Hugo Strange was more disappointing than The Riddler in BTAS.
It sounds like the creators were too bloody lazy to try and make TAS Riddler work.
The only areas where TAS Riddler was handled well were the characterisation and voice performance by John Glover.
Ironically, the TAS spinn off comics actually wrote Edward better than the cartoon.
The best versions of the riddler, in my opinion is from The Batman show and the Arkham games.
I am a fan of the Arkham games’ Riddler and hope we get to see him again in the future
Well, for one adaptation you don't have to collect hundreds of trophies to stop him....
the Riddler could Possibly be Named Mr. Enigma.
The original design of the Riddler in BTAS is awesome but his redesign was just bad
"Too difficult to write" said the BTAS writers. The writers for Darkwing Duck said the same thing about The Liquidator. This Riddler's design, with John Glover's learned yet pompous voice, was the best thing between yesteryear's Frank Gorshin and future Jim Carrey.
I liked John Glover's portrayal. He had just the right amount of arrogance.
There’s a comics storyline, early 1990s, I want to say a Batman annual where Riddler is a cult leader and he viciously murders a bunch of people. It was shocking because I didn’t think he would murder people like that.
That being said, maybe writers overthought him. He’s a criminal, he wants money, he wants to prove he’s smarter than everyone especially Batman. Doesn’t need a cheesy riddle, maybe a puzzle, a game, a trail of clues, an elaborate deathtrap. Or, alternatively, completely overdo the cheesy riddles “what’s black and white and red all over” and turn that into a colossal mind screw of some kind. Writers are so good at writing Joker’s headgames, the Riddle is kind of the same thing, a few degrees different.
Riddler is a great villain who when done right, should be the Moriarty to Batman’s Holmers (alongside Hugo Strange). The problem is, the writers admit it themselves, he’s too smart and none of the writers are smart enough to come up with the riddles the Riddler would actually use. Surprised this video just brushed past the new 52 without mentioning Riddler. New 52 Riddler is probably his best and most ruthless form. So evil and dangerous that Batman kinda implies he would save his one kill if he had to do it, for Riddler instead of Joker. Zero Hour was a crossover where Riddler took over the entire city and was the basis for The Batman movie with Pattinson.
It takes one bad day
These videos are great, but I gotta disagree this time. "If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?" is in my Top 15 Episodes. The show's take on Riddler is fantastic because the narcissism is so pronounced. He's so good, it made him one of my most anticipated foes... Yes, it's a shame that he's hard to write for, but I was always looking forward to more of him, and the rarity of his episodes, like Mr Freeze and Clayface, give him aura that feels more special.
Side note, I also like that these stories tend to include Robin (from the TV show to the movie) as a way for the characters to bounce ideas around. Robin is greatly used for Batman to explain the riddles- or in BTAS, for Robin to help Batman with the more game-like material. These episodes tend to showcase problem solving, which I always appreciate.
well that's the great thing about works of art - they say different things to different people, and each point of view is entirely valid.
iysswayr and riddlers reform are two of my favorite btas episodes because he is my favorite villain and I love his design and character in this series (i despise the redesign for tnba). The only other version besides the comics that really does him justice is the Arkham version