Battle of the Ports - Donkey Kong Jr. (ドンキーコングJR.) Show 515 - 60fps
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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Time Code
00:30 - Arcade
03:35 - Atari 8bit Home Computers
04:27 - Atari 2600
05:14 - Atari 7800
06:02 - BBC Micro
06:55 - ColecoVision
07:50 - Famicom Disc System
08:59 - Intellevision
09:59 - Game & Watch
10:42 - All versions side by side
Enjoy!
#retrocore
#battleoftheports
#donkeykongjr
Gary Kitchen, the guy responsible for developing the 2600 version of the previous game Donkey Kong went on record that the 2600 ports of the DK games weren't made inferior at the behest of Coleco, but rather were the result of circumstances. Those circumstances being "We want these released in an unreasonably short amount of time, and you have to use the smallest rom size, because we want it done cheap!"
Sounds like a plausible thing execs would say.
@@RetroCoreit's really quite straightforward for cases of 2600 DK and DK Jr, the hardware limitations and the commercial deadlines.
For DK:
Coleco wanted to ship it in September. That meant production had to be finished by May to leave time for production and shipping.
The 2600 hardware was designed for games like Pong and Combat, it could display scenery against a colored background, and hold five moveable objects : two players, two missiles, and a ball. The missile, player, and ball objects could be moved around the screen as the programmer manipulated data held in the system’s memory registers.
The first level of DK had Mario, a fireball or two, barrels rolling down the spaced stack of slanted horizontal platforms, and Pauline and Donkey Kong standing at the top, each waiting for Mario to ascend...
The 2600 coder has repeatedly detailed in depth the development conditions, the hardware challenges etc he faced and how he wrote his coding routines and people still choose to believe Colecovision had him deliberately code a poor 2600 version, so their console version would look far superior.
That's simply not the case.
The cynic in me thinks “well of course he’d say that; nobody is going to admit deliberately coding a bad game.” But it could also be that Coleco, wanting to sabotage the game without saying sabotage the game, gave him an impossible timeline and insufficient resources on purpose.
@@billcook4768 I'm willing to take a guy like Gary Kitchen at his word though.
@@billcook4768 To be fair, "fast and cheap" had become the mantra of the 2600 at the time, which was a large part of why the American game industry collapsed.
The nes port is a reminder of how outstanding the famicom was when it came out!
The reason why the 7800 version follows the japanese pattern unlike the other Atari versions is because it's a direct port of the NES version, just like the ports of Donkey Kong and Mario Bros for the console.
Ah, that makes sense then. Thanks for the input.
You sure about that? From what I understand, those were made before the cancelled 1984 launch of the 7800. Considering the system was announced May 21, 1984, I can only imagine the game being developed mid-to-late 83. Hadn't talks for Ateri to release the NES collapsed by then? My timelines are a bit fuzzy.
@@jesuszamora6949 it's very obvious they are ports of the NES versions when looking closely, since they added the same title screens with new music that were exclusive of the NES versions, they have the same pros but also cons as the NES versions like DK missing the cement level, Mario Bros missing the icycles and none of the games having the arcade cutscenes, and also overall the general look of the games is the same in color palethe, sprite sizes and details like the turtles in Mario Bros lookin weirdly skinny like in no other versions. They are basically one to one to the NES versions but with worse sound quality and slightly less detailed visuals, unlike most of the other ports that are very unique to each other.
@@oscarzxn4067 I can't argue with that, honestly. The lack of the cement stage DK is a pretty huge bit of evidence. Wonder why they went through the trouble, as they couldn't have been working WITH Nintendo. just seems weird to clone THAT one instead of the other, better Atari 8-bit version.
Fun Fact: the Coleco Adam version of Donkey Kong Jr. has a secret 5th stage.
wait really?
@@ecernosoft3096 I don't think so...
It's true. The only video I've seen of the 5th level so far is uploaded by "trebor's stuff". I believe it was only on the DDP version of the game.
@@jctotboiofficialInteresting.
Very cool if it really does. Just a shame I couldn't get that one to work
I haven't played a Donkey Kong game in 40 years, but he still has a place in my hart. That speaks to the genius of one particular develop.
DKjr. was one of the games I received bundled with my famiclone back in 1990. The others were Super Mario Bros, Excitebike and Urban Champion. I was still playing my Atari 2600 at this point. Quite an upgrade!
I'd say. That like going from 16bit consoles to 32bit consoles.
Always loved this game... My first exposure was part of the Donkey Kong Classics NES cartridge so never knew it was its own game until years later😂
As @jctotboiofficial said, there was a bonus stage in the Coleco ADAM port (much like with DK). Though unlike the ColecoVision version, the ADAM port had all of the cutscenes from the arcade. Just a damned shame with how the ADAM computer failed so badly, and that devastating EMP issue with its tape drives (NEVER have a tape inserted when turning the machine on, or it'll generate an EMP that will completely erase the tape).
Now that is some major hardware issue right there.
@@RetroCore howso?
@@RetroCore oh yeah. It was one of the two big flaws that killed it. The other being the computer's damned power supply being in its supplied PRINTER. Like, what the hell was the Conneticut Leather Company thinking?
and i thought the first xbox 360's (red ring of death, etc) and just about everything to do with the jaguar (that whole back end makes it look like it was made by somali pirates) were major hardware issues... but an EMP issue that can destroy your legitimate software? thats crazy...
@@NightSprinter Erasing any tape you have in the system when you turn it on is a pretty huge issue. I can easily see a younger user doing that by accident.
At least Nintendo had warnings on every cartridge with save capacity to hold reset when turning it off.
I remember BBC Micros in use till at least 1994 in my school, fond memories of Grannies Garden, The Worst Witch and I think Choplifter.
Oh, choplifter was one we'd often play.
The audio in the Intellivison version sounds like those types of Mario music videos when an AI tries to *re-compose it* from the memory.
Love the inclusion of the G&W versions! I’ve still got my DKJr G&W, it wasn’t as good as the original DK G&W but it was still fun. Someone might have already mentioned this but there’s also a multi-screen Donkey Kong II G&W which is also based on DKJr.
I loved the NES version as a kid! The game and the box art too
I like to think that when Mario hit his head during the ending of this game, he got amnesia and became the Mario we all know and love today
You never know. That could be it. 😉
One of first games my late dad used to play on Atari 800XL :) I first played it via MAME emulator in 1998. Few years ago unofficial port was released on C64 :)
That C64 version is a joke release unless there was another that actually allows gameplay.
@@RetroCore You missed a another excellent MR Sid port from 2014. Hehe. You missed his excellent Prince of Persia port as well. :-D
Never knew that the intro cinematic to Donkey Kong JR had the Bach composition Aka the Dracula theme. Ive only played the Nes version maybe once and the game and watch version on Game and Watch Gallery 4 on Game Boy Advance.
I stink at Donkey Kong Jr. BIG TIME. But I think the Famicom and the ColecoVision / ADAM versions are the best ports in my opinion! Plus, I think the Atari 7800 is the best port of the Atari Systems.
I'm not that good at it either. I'd say the Famicom version is probably the easiest.
that BBC version is very impressive, considering the hardware
I fully agree and such a shame it was never released.
Also wanna say at least the Coleco port of this game wasn't all over the place with the levels, as the base Coleco port of the original DK.
That's a strong point.
I have only played the Colecovision version in my lifetime and now 40 years later I learned there were more levels! Better late than never I suppose
Not gonna lie. That Coleco Vision port looks really, really good and slick!
The animation on DK Jr. looks pretty nice for the time.
Regarding the BBC Port:
Coder Adrian Stephens, had earlier produced Killer Gorilla for Micro Power.
It's been suggested that the quality of his Donkey Kong clone got him the job of doing a proper conversion of the sequel for Atarisoft.
Unfortunately for him, around 1984, Atarisoft hit some trouble and eventually collapsed, seeing a whole series of conversions denied release, including Adrian's...
That's such a bad turn of events as his port was very impressive.
I still remember seeing the arcade back when it first came out. Fantastic at the time. I couldn't wait for it to come out for the Colecovision. It wasn't quite as good as I hoped but it was fun enough considering that it was before the NES came out. The Adam version was better but obviously the Adam wasn't exactly a huge seller. Still it's cool that they would take DK JR and make him the main character of the Donkey Kong Country games years later.
Oh but they didn’t. DKJR got unceremoniously dumped for his poochified alter ego Diddy Kong.
Another amazing classic Arcade game. One of my favorites. The only one that dares to display Mario's, otherwise hidden, deep rooted connection to the Dark Side of the Force. 😁
I’ve never played donkey Kong Junior and all the portsS are mostly good, I definitely need to play this on NSO on my switch anyway great battle of the port as always. Also it’s interesting that the 7800 version for those the Japanese layout.
I have not actually played this, despite the original game being such a massive classic, that 2600 version was rough indeed but the rest are all playable for their times.
I'd have to agree on that.
This is ace! My 1st ever Game and Watch was Donkey Kong Jr. It's probably my favourite too! Great, cheers!
You're welcome
love that panorama version
It's a classic for sure.
The Commodore 64 is very good homebrew converting by MR Sid from 2014.....
Wish I'd know about that one. I only knew about the trick one that asks the player to enter a password.
hihi. im wasent aware of that either really. im really newer liked the game, but im did loved the g&w version of it throught. Mr Sid do cool ports when he has his hans on.
Like father, like son.
Nice video. Decent amount of versions and not too much negativity. Lovely.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The top ports are the Famicom (obviously), the 8-bit computer and the 7800. 7800 would have been number 2 were it not for the god-awful sound. It's actually amazing how few outright disastrous versions of Donkey Kong Jr there are, considering how many crap versions of the original there were.
Nice.
See, the Nitpicker enemies are called that because they relentlessly criticize you
Funny I could have sworn that there was a port for the Atari 5200, but not being able to find anything online, I think I must be remembering the Atari 8-bit version. Because of not being able to find games anymore for my Atari 5200 that I had back then, I got an Atari 800XL in early 1984 with birthday money. I remember enjoying Donkey Kong Jr., but never got into it to the level that I got into the first game and Popeye.
No 5200 version might of been a license issue?
Atari had the rights to release it on home computers, Coleco had the rights to release it on home consoles.
Might of been timing?
The Atari 7800 versions didn’t come out until 1988, by which time the 5200 had been discontinued for a long time.
@@thefurthestmanfromhome1148 It probably was timing since the 5200 was the main rival of the Colecovision at the time and Coleco wouldn't have wanted it on that system.
This is such a great game 😊
Thanks Mark 👍🏼
My pleasure!
Stubborn Kong Junior.
Always wanted a Coleco Vision, it looked the coolest back then. Nice 🤘
Always thought that Colecovision and Intelivision had similar capabilities, but I think that I was wrong 😅. LOVE the Famicom version of this game and I'm greatly surprised with the 7800 port.
Ah, the Coleco was way more advanced as I'm sure you've now noticed 👍. To be honest, back in the day, I also thought they were similar.
Yup...I remember the schools BBC micros
Yep. Always loaded with lame games as well. I had no idea back then at how capable the BBC Micro could be.
Granny's Garden! Seemed epic as a kid at school!
I think the less said about naked Mario in the Intellivision version the better.
Not true. He was modest enough to wear a hat, successfully hiding his receding hairline. A true gentleman, indeed. 😁
I'm surprised Nintendo has not cancelled this game yet.
my first donkey kong game was on the gameboy, jr I didnt even play until I was a teen when emulation was a wild west, so to speak. these ports arent as bad as i thought they'd be for early 80s conversions tho
Coleco were so evil and crafty when it came to donkey Kong & jr
Coleco did not intentionally sabotage the Atari ports. They were contracted to make them quick and cheap to capitalize on the arcade games' success.
@@blutryforce762exactly, it's an urban myth, which has been completely proven false, by Dan Kitchen, that people sadly insist on repeating.
Really surprised and disappointed to hear the claim here today.
Played the NES version to death. I prefer DJ Jr to the original Donkey Kong as it's more varied. Colecovision and 7800 versions look great though that 7800 sound is the usual earache. 😀
That 7800 audio is it's eternal let down, sure plan was for some games they wanted to use the Pokey Chip and Ballblazer did, but bloody hell, using 2600 audio as standard... shesh
I can appreciate the BITD focus but an addendum for homebrew ports couldn't hurt after the main event ijs.😉 A pretty good game, a nice diversion for something to play besides Donkey Kong on the old platforms.
The verticality of the 3:4 original was always hard to port to 4:3 home platforms, I found the 1:1 window with a pillarbox HUD layout to be the best work around solution to that. Most people want to see the single-screen total rather than vertically scroll but it does squash the level layout a lot compared to the arcade original.
Sad fate of a many 2600 ports was the tiny ROM size, funny but I found what I guess were "authenticity nuts" championing those small cheap sizes when I joined AtariAge a long time ago, thankfully saner minds have prevailed and Atari ROM homebrew sizes are much larger and reasonable now for all the consoles.😁
True the Colecovision was late enough you'd think there would be room for title screens by then, even a small one would do. Hard to say how much space was saved not coding joystick driven menu screens accomplished, or perhaps virtually nobody having game designs using keypads outside of menus was a hint Coleco should have skipped the keypad contrivance for good like Famicom almost did entirely Eg. a single Select Button versus 12 giant membrane keys.🤔
Hahaha. Do I have to say anything about tis timeless classic Mark. Thank you as always for sharing your Battle of the Ports videos to enjoy the weekends right brother man. 8^)
Anthony..
You're welcome 👍
I love this game. I played the NES version a lot when I was a child. I didn't know about those 2 Game&Watch versions.
I remember owning a 2 screens one very similar to the first shown. Correction: the name was Donkey Kong 2 but they are very similar.
Nintendo, look away now:
how can I emulate Game&Watch games?
There's a version of MAME that emulates some LCD and VFD games as well as some dedicated simulators.
There was once a Web site with loads of classics but I'm not sure it's still around.
This isn't the site I knew but still cool with some games you can try
bdrgames.nl/lcdgames/
@@RetroCore Thank you very much. I'll check it out.
Oh wow, I just searched: mame game & watch and bingo. I didn't know MAME could do that.
Always good to start the weekend with a BOTP. I would say the Famicon is the best of the ports, but I was impressed with the BBC Micro also. If that version wasn’t released, where did you find it?
Some unreleased games do get leaked on to the net. This one was fairly easy to find with a Google search.
4:43: **Coleco*
The game worked well on the coin-op and Japanese hardware
I'm surprised it wasn't on more systems :)
To be honest, so was I. I expected a load of Japanese PC ports.
As usual, the plot for the game is written in the manual. For original Donkey Kong, you would be surprised as to why is Donkey Kong the antagonist.
I had the clamshell dual screen gaming watch version. :D
Honestly it's the one of those games that translates extremely well to that format due to the almost grid like movement of the original. I had the zelda one as well and it kinda sucked in comparison.
Yeah, I agree. Some games translate very well to game a watch while others don't.
That never stopped Tiger from porting all manner of Arcade games to their LCD line.
Looking at the 7800 version, I have a question: Is there a reason why Junior looks like one of Shrek's ancestors?
The 7800 uses odd 'rectangular' pixels, which might be part of the reason?
Wow Dk jr was not covered until now??, I think there are some other classics still missing, like Space invaders, Pooyan, galaxian, crystal castles..
All of those are on the to do list. Eventually I'll get around to them. 👍
@@RetroCore Space invaders is gonna a be BIG one probably
It's no contest, really, the arcade and Famicom versions are the best. But the Atari 8-bit computer/7800/Colecovision ports are a very close second. The BBC Micro version seems to run smooth and sound reasonably well, but the color palette used hurts to look at!
Sadly the BBC wasn't known for having a great choice of simultaneous displaying colours.
I had that Atari 2600 DK Jr. I can attest to it sucking. You only got the two levels, fine, but the thing is just empty and ugly, and terrible to play. Yet, hilariously so. But the most fun I had with the game was just positioning Junior just so on the platforms so the Snappers would bite him on the butt. Did I mention I was a small child at the time?
Hey, even as an adult that would be more entertaining than playing this game correctly 😂
@@RetroCore The sound effects are just too funny for me to ever get mad at this game. It's like everything you do summons Harpo Marx to honk a bike horn.
The audio was sketchy on most all the versions (and it's what you get from emulated old school arcade) but that 7800 game made my ears bleed for some reason. I would have thought that system could support better sound effects than that.
Sadly not. The 7800 has Atari 2600 quality audio. Atari were cheap and expected sound chips to be added to game carts.
Nice Video ! Sub & Big Like ! And Love Retro Donkey Games !
Thanks for the sub!
@@RetroCore Thank you for your reply ! If you are interested in the nostalgic game culture of Japan, please subscribe to the my channel !
Have you ever played the Game Boy Color version included in Game and Watch Gallery 3? As the name suggests, it’s based on the G&W versions, but is still very different as it’s made to be a “modern” take. I always loved playing that version as a kid.
No, I haven't seen that one unfortunately.
May I please ask what the name of the remix the beginning is called?
I don't know what it's called but I do know it's from one of the Super Smash Brothers games.
@@RetroCore I found it! It's called the Donkey Kong/Donkey Kong Jr. Medley. Thank you! :)
i remember this little handheld game of it shaped like a arcade. i tried to find one forever and only got a pacman one. then my cousin stole it and i stole his dirty movies as revenge
I wonder which gave more pleasure 😅
That key pushing level sounds like the Popeye Game. Also i am not aware of the joke C64 version ? Please do tell us more ?
Basically the game starts but then asks you to enter a password to continue. Thing is, there is no password. The "game" is just a rolling demo 😅
@@RetroCore That was the fake one from years ago. Mr Sid made the proper version in 2012 . And it is awesome just as good as the C64 Wreck it Ralph but better. But if by you saying Joke version you already mean the fake one and already know about the 2012 version then . yes ok i miss understand you.
Hi Mark!!
Hello there!
Sadly Frank Johnson, Intellivision DK Jr coder has passed away, but..
Jennell Jaquays, who was the Director of Game Design at Coleco, made clear that they did not deliberately make poor Atari and Intellivision ports of Coleco titles in her talk at VCF (23:47-26:00).
ua-cam.com/video/s7tEdUgHE8Y/v-deo.htmlsi=lhcJXQzfceVm4qwz
So you have her account and Kitchen's regarding 2600 DK, there was no foul play by Colecovision.
It's Here, do one for Chack'n Pop!
It's on the list.
But the C64 port is the best one!
What about the great c64 version?
Never knew about it due to it being unofficial.
The "Colecovision deliberately made rival console versions deliberately worse" conspiracy stuff, just doesn't hold water.
For a start the 2600 and Intellivision hardware, was never designed with games like DK and DK Jr in mind and coders have detailed the hardware limitations at length.
Secondly, NO business would every want their name to be associated with a bad product,it would cost them too money in developing and promoting it.
Atari even a great port of Pac-Man for the Intellivision, one that surpassed the 2600 by a wide margin, you yourself Mark point out how great the sadly unreleased BBC version of DK Jr is..
Loss leading to promote own hardware sales, I'd say it was plausible as the 2600 owners would lap up any old Jank lol.
@@TheKayliedGamerChannel-UA-camAs an Atari 800XL and later Atari Jaguar owner, I would indeed buy sub-par releases, just to have something new to play, releases were so limited. Never had this issue on the 2600.
But with the DK games, Kitchen has repeatedly detailed the games development, it was pure contract work and not a pleasant time for him, he's the last person to rewrite history in attempt to cover up any intended Market Manipulation by Colecovision at the time.
I fully get your point of view on this and it makes sense but also, making sure the 2600 version was rushed was a decision made by Coleco. I do wonder how much time was given to the port on their own system.
While the 2600 isn't designed to do a game like this, it can do much better as we've seen in the past. Often a 2600 game would look poor but retained good playability.
The BBC Micro port was by Atari Soft, Not Coleco. Actually, that's odd how that worked out. I guess Coleco had the rights to console releases while Atari had the computers.
@@RetroCorethe decision to limit the cartridge size was also that of Colecovision, but we saw exactly the same decisions made by Tramiel era Atari on 7800,Lynx and Jaguar titles, they weren't interested in the shortcomings of the final product (missing levels etc), same applies to rushing product to market.
Such tactics were commonplace in the industry.
So many times I hear people claim conspiracy, the Jaguar lot are the worst, Zoop, Rayman, deliberately sabotaged so PlayStation version appeared better, like the Jag was ever a threat to the Playstation.
So many arcade to home formats conversions could of been far better if developers given more time, more freedom, more storage space, allowed to write for higher performance models, allowed to write for custom hardware.
Kitchen has never been shy to go into great detail regarding how he approached the 2600, he was doing contract work with DK, he's no reason to protect Colecovision, none at all, he could of easily said, they weren't willing to pay for a best use of Hardware version just wanted something resembling the Arcade original, but not too close as they felt it may harm their own console conversion.
But that's not the case.
Until someone comes forward with proof Colecovision did deliberately sabatoge Intellivision and 2600 versions it's just pure tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense.
We as a community do our damnest to provide straight from the horses mouth background info on how and why versions turned out the way they did, you know this, as I have put in a lot of hours on your comments section sharing UK developer quotes as and where I can.
And your comments very much appreciated 👍. Some are quite interesting as they shed light on the mentality of the British games industry at the time.
I love Donkey Kong Jr. It gets no love here in the States. Maybe in Japan it's more fondly looked backed on. I had the piss poor 2600 port when I was a kid. Yeah, my childhood was ruined. lol
Unfortunate. I had no version as a kid but I guess that's better than being disappointed by the 2600 version.
the intellivision looks like what you think the 2600 would look like ....... now was donkey kong 3 just an NES thing or was it an arcade game with ports too ?
No idea about DK3. Something to look in to I guess.
DK3 was originally an arcade game but as far as I'm aware the NES version is the only port. Hudson did one of those weird quasi-sequels for Japanese computers like they did with Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros, but overall it just wasn't as popular a game as the first two.
Why not add the one on the Game and Watch Gallery games? I know they are based on the LCD game, but are still unique in a way.
I thought it would be more fun to show the original.
I wasn't aware the gallery versions were upgraded.
@@RetroCore upgraded visually.
By "joke" C64 conversion you must mean the one trying to replicate the LCD game then? But you missed the conversion of the Arcade game to the C64 by "Mr Sid" (Andreas Varga) which is anything but a joke really if you consider the hardware. But... I guess it's not official enough. As if Nintendo would allow such a crime against their IP!
I was referring to the one that asks for a password when you try to start playing.
I see a tendency of not mentioning about MrSid's great work on @RetroCore channel. Not a first time.
was looking for this comment. should at least have gotten a mention since its an excellent port.
@@RetroCore ?!? Never played that one! Sounds like it could be copy protection! Or just incredibly lame. If you ever do an update with unofficial ports I hope to see Mr.Sid's conversion! 👍 Little disappointed it wasn't here but hey, in light of all the amazing work you do on these videos it's a nitpick really.🤟
@@SieIaQ Prince of Persia...
It’s just too bad about the 7800’s sound chip.
The 7800 was designed to be able to have support chips in the cartridge. Ballblazer comes with a Pokey sound chip.
Well the atari 2600 was a abysmal port wich did had poor graphics,sounds and shitty gameplay.
And by the way unreleased versions of this game shouldn’t counted like in this video so haha🤣
not a good time for a s-word on the 2600 as we know, Atari are not so good in Nintendo games, like you saw old Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. before? it's sh*t im sure you already knew that
as for the new BOTP, well i was hope to see Capcom's first Mega Man X series or Remedy's 3rd person shooter hit, Max Payne
I did Megaman X3 about 2 years ago
ua-cam.com/video/BcPz6oVXdZQ/v-deo.htmlsi=T9yEQhxNG7bX6bkJ
@@RetroCore but what about the first Mega Man X? ports include DOS, homebrew Genesis and PSP remake
I hate to say it, but this is a generic and maddeningly slow platform puzzle game. The levels are completely interchangeable . No reason to play at any point in time!
I consider the BBC Micro game a fantastic and big port. The BBC is more than capable of playing this game and is much faster than all the other 8bit computers, and it features RGB colours!