America Hates Electric Vehicles - Why Is That?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- ( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Welcome back to the TFLtalk podcast! In this episode, Roman and Nathan talk about why supply is so much higher than demand for EV's in America!
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I 100% agree with Nathan on idling charges. I hate people being careless. Nobody ows them a free parking spot, owners want to continue doing business, other EV drivers want to charge. Just like any parking place, EV charger should absolutely cost you money. You bought that 100 square foot piece of metal - now pay for leaving it in other people's way.
The most environmentally friendly vehicle is the one you don't have to replace.
My 98 Sentra with a manual trans in a nutshell.
@@fortheloveofnoise< You are bold to admit you drive that.
@@melrose9252 A car is a hole in the street you throw your money into. Manual vehicles are becoming very, very rare, and automatics suck. A 98 Sentra, with a stick is probably a whole lot more fun than whatever you drive.
Not sure my 71 LeMans with 455 CID engine agrees. LOL
I drive a 2010 Fiat Panda diesel. It’s quick very frugal and dirt cheap to run. It has at least another 10 years in it and probably a lot more. IF I can keep getting spare parts. Stuff wears out. Brakes, suspension, etc
I’m a conservative, but I don’t hate electric vehicles. I like the idea of less parts to go bad (considering how many corners automakers cut nowadays) and sending less money to countries that hate us. it’s just that I don’t think they are ready for prime time. Hybrid is the way to go.
Me also. Grew up visiting the grandparents in AZ. In their retirement villa everyone drove golf carts everywhere. Easy, cheap, kinda fun. Still seems logical to pop down to the store using battery.
Well they sure ruined the less parts to break the first thing theyve done and just keep making it worse.... soon they will have devices to chew food for you and breathe for you in the ev's...
I think people are saying EVs have to replace all use cases...the average American family has multiple vehicles. We could go one EV and one Hybrid/ICE till the infrastructure for EVs catches up...
We forget that we are living in the pre1910s of EVs...back then you bought gas by the pint from road side shacks, blacksmiths, and pharmacies...the first gas car came out in 1886 and it took almost 20 years for the first gas station to show up and then another 20-30 years from it to be a common thing...
We will get there with EVs
Basically we didn't have any infrastructure when we started using cars...we built it as we went along...atleast now we only need to worry about charging infrastructure...the rest already exists...
It seems like “I like the idea of less parts” and “hybrid is the way to go” are kind of conflicting thoughts. In a sense hybrids are the worst of both worlds. When you’re running the gas engine you’re lugging around a heavy battery. When you’re running in electric mode you’re lugging around a heavy gasoline engine & gas tank. And you’ve got the complexity/maintenance of both systems.
I can see where hybrids make sense for instance if you have to tow something. Another instance is if an EV is just too expensive, but I think the prices will come down just like flat screen TVs.
You make excellent points. I would posit that Toyota, who are leading the hybrid charge, are very reliable, so if you choose a hybrid, you really will enjoy the best of both worlds. But time will tell I imagine.
I don't care if you ramble or not. I simply enjoy your discussions. In this case, you did good staying on topic because it was a particularly interesting one. Thanks.
100% correct on the fire stats. But out of curiosity what if you only look at new ICE vehicles, like 5 years or newer? Not like this is happening with old EV's, because they don't really exist for the most part, yet. And the fear of fire difference is where and when it happens. I'd rather have it catch fire on the side of the road, then in my house while my family is sleeping. I feel that is why it's in peoples minds so much.
I was all on board for buying a Tesla unit I started doing research on cold weather performance and cost of insurance.
If I can't reliably drive 100 miles from home (no matter the weather) and back home again, without having to charge, I don't want it.
Where did you get that misinformation from? Not true. Lol
@@peterrempala7982 There are lots of Tesla's on the road that wont make a 200 mile round trip in the dead of winter without charging. Like my model S. Lol
My car has 315 miles of range even in the coldest weather it will get at least 200 miles. That's double 100.
@@jstar1000 No! You can't reliably drive 200 round-trip no matter the weather. 100 miles from home and back home again is 200 miles! Getting home at 0% is not reliable.
@MrOktsx your wrong, I've owned mine 4 years, no problem getting 200 miles plus. Your making shit up.
Everyone forgets that co2 and carbon are not greenhouse gas. It's plant food. The number 1 contributor of co2 and carbon is the ocean. Number 2 is volcanos. 1of the 11 big volcanos on land puts out more co2 and carbon in 1 day than all of humanity puts out in a year. And the co2 and carbon in the atmosphere is at 0.04% so y are they picking on cars.
Volcanoes are the earth’s natural pressure vents and created by the man himself so it can’t possibly be harmful. The balance is the vegetation like you said to filter the air. But man is cutting trees down to build mini mansion subdivisions, strip malls and parking lots. So the filters are being destroyed in addition to our machines that emit pollution.
Yup, so the actual impact of auto emissions are minimal. Smog, ok I can buy that….but it’s mostly eliminated now.
@@donrichter3523 smog is eliminated because of strict emissions regulations it didn’t just happen. From cars to industries even to aircraft. I guess you agree that emissions regulations work.
Yes and no. Carbon dioxide is most certainly a greenhouse gas (see Venus), along with many others (including water vapor). This is actually needed for our planet to be habitable since we don't get enough heat from the sun and it helps spread the heat more evenly around the world. The problem is balance. Plants breath in CO2 and out O2, thus they are a carbon sink. CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have doubled in the past 70 years, so the plants (and other carbon sinks) aren't keeping up. It's like a bathtub with an open drain - if you fill the tub faster than the drain can remove water, the tub will eventually fill up.
I think it’s the pricing. We don’t hate them, there just not as affordable as originally promoted
Good point on charging stations without a cover. I live in san diego but on the occasional rainy day no cover is rediculous.
Buy a Tesla then you don't have to worry about secondary charging options which all the people that don't buy Tesla are faced with and therefore dummies!
How carbon free is that container shop thats been burning out of control for nearly a week and a half because of 500 EVs that spontaneously combusted?
Could I make a suggestion of getting rid of the flashing sign
I think the major Japanese automakers have the right recipe for electrification....hybridization. My wife and I just bought a new Honda Accord Hybrid and it's returning 55-57 mpg. I'm not sure why there is such a push for 100% EV adoption when hybrids have show to be the best route for long term buy in by the masses. 650 miles on a 12 gallon tank of gas is a convincing argument from the offerings from both Toyota and Honda without the current downfalls of the EV charging infrastruture. I say this as both a Hybrid owner and an EV owner.
It’s political…
I absolutely agree, I own a Toyota Camry Hybrid that also gets 650 miles on a tank of gas, and it fills up from 0 to 100 in less than 1 minute 30 seconds, assuming 10 gallons per minute. I doubt EVs will be able to match for a long time.
I'd prefer plugin hybrids with a 50+ mile battery range - but to replace my minivan in the future. Nearly all local trips are on my Tesla Model Y since I charge at home.
@@electricalinput5999 Do they need to? My bladder doesn't have a 200 mile range. As long as I can get another 200 miles in the time it takes me to use the restroom and perhaps grab some snacks - does it matter? Normally on roadtrips, I have my family with me too, so even more bio-break possibilities. Normally the car is ready before the people are, so I end up charging more than required to continue. On a 5700 mile trip, I only counted a few times when we had to charge without needing something else or we needed to charge longer than our other needs at the stop.
Rest assured the end of Tesla will come from the Japanese offering an EV that makes a Tesla look horrible by comparison. They did it with hybrids and they will do it with EV’s. Tesla will join the garbage heap of failed car companies.
I am currently looking at a new car. Has to be AWD, gets good fuel mileage and is fast and under 50k. Well there isn't much out there, so I did the math on fuel and charging a tesla at home and I was shocked at the fuel savings. I will still keep the ole F150 for truck stuff, but the Model 3 seems to fit the bill.
I own two EVs. If you have solar you can charge the vehicles for free. So free operating costs (excluding road trips) and very little maintenance beyond tires and windshield wiper fluid.
I own that set up f150 and Tesla model 3. The car is great in the city the truck works well for looking range driving. I hate this notion that you can't have both. Truck is nice because of the room and abundance of gas stations with short fuel stops. Ev is good because of savings on fuel. I Have made a few trips from Denver to Albuquerque in the 3 and it does fine but I think it could have been faster fill ups in the truck but much more expensive.
I don’t think most people hate “EVs” - I think they hate bureaucrats and lawmakers in Washington mandating their adoption and taking away the freedom to choose what technology (ICE vs. BEV/Hybrid) is the best fit for their use case.
I am anti-big government but I like EVs for use cases that fit them.
The price, low range, high insurance costs, repair difficulty, and battery replacement.
Low range because you didn't a Tesla. Insurance there's no maintenance of to speak of mark. Try to replace the engine on my 328 BMW 2015 4 cylinder 2 l great car it's going to cost you more than the replacing the the battery plus the labor.... You obviously don't know what it cost to all the money waste on gas and the gas prices decided by the oil company and the stock market for your convenience so you can get your pocket dipped buy them anytime they feel like it! Anybody who likes that kind of system is crazy and should be referred to a psychiatrist for long-term care. Or you can make it simple just buy a Tesla model 3 highly recommended I bought one after my BMW and I'll never look back.
There's another one in 6 years I own my BMW 328 GT how many times did I see people sitting in their car running the air conditioner g what is the air conditioner run on fossil fuels carbon my Tesla doesn't use gasoline to have the air conditioner on or the heat how's that for a novel concept.... You really have to start thinking before write here or anywhere
Hmmm lets see, recent examples, the spontaneous combustion of the Ford EV trucks on the dealer lots. The recent fire and sinking of the North Sea "auto carrying cargo ship" that was carrying a large number of EVs. Sea water and EVs don't mix well. So after I plunk down $70 or $80 Thousand dollars to buy this new EV vehicle I have to worry about that issue. That is Just for starters. The fact that the current EVs do not handle extreme heat or extreme cold very well and my distance on a charge will be cut short. However, If I am lucky and nothing bad happens to my new EV and I make it out of warranty, the battery replacement cost will be more than the value of the vehicle. that would be the definition of "vehicle totaled!" . I'm sticking with Toyota proven vehicles and old vehicles that I can work on until this craziness is worked out.
American has always love loud vintage cars specially in Texas
I don't hate the EV. What I don't like the distance they can or cannot do. My Tacoma can go on average about 270 miles before I fill. It only takes at most about 10 minutes to fill. As for EV's it takes any where between 1 hour several hours to fill. If you are traveling it takes longer with an electric car. Also how much they cost to buy compared with gas. Being retired I more than likely won't be getting one.
I don't hate electric cars, I just don't think they are all that. I wouldn't mind have a small one for in-town chores. But when I'm traveling in my ICE car it takes me 5 minutes to fill up and I'm back on the road.
Being an "ICE guy" I guess, I would totally have an EV truck right now if there was no negative impact on my $$$, time, convenience and "freedoms". If I lived in a city, never towed and charging Infrastructure was more prevalent, it makes sense. EVs are very nice to drive for "daily driving" duties, and could tow what I need (personally) if the range, speed of charging, charging Infrastructure and public charging costs can be addressed. Shoot.. If I could hold and charge 250 miles of towing range in 15 minutes, count me in.
Give it 5 more years. The Chevy Silverado looks promising. But it’s expensive.
I lived in the Orlando metro area and once the charger was installed at my house, I never used public infrastructure in my area. Charging to 90% (recommended) each night gives you about 250 miles of range each day (not towing). Depending what you are towing (weight and shape), you can expect the range to be cut in half. The same is true for ICE vehicles too but with gas stations everywhere, this is less of an issue. If you need to tow big stuff long distances, you need to weight another decade most likely. Current EV trucks are fine for local towing or very occasion uses, otherwise not ready yet for that specific case.
@@JasonTaylor-po5xc Yeah.. My 2019 Ram Rebel (the 2nd worst gas mileage truck I've owned) can tow my 90's Honda on my aluminum trailer with the bed and cab full of tools/wheels/parts/etc over 400 miles@75mph. Race Tracks aren't exactly close to large charging Infrastructures, so 125 miles of range doesnt' cut it... I could barely make it from a charger to the track and back to a charger... let alone using the truck while I'm at the track/camping.
I will say.. I think that ICE engines should be kept around forever for "fun" or "hobby" cars. Having driven the Ludicrous Teslas and other Fast EVs... there is no comparison to the soul of a tuned ICE car. EV acceleration gets old really fast. For daily driving though.. and if you don't care about the environmental and political stuff.. EVs are great!
@@SingleSpeed427 My friend tows his boat from the northern Atlanta metro to Destin, Florida every so often. It is at least twice the gas cost than without towing, but filling up only takes 5 minutes each time except for when he needs to use the restroom or get snacks. Still takes longer, but not nearly as long as if he had an EV truck doing the same job. It's possible, but takes way longer and most folks towing don't have the patience for it. EV trucks will need a solid 300+ miles of _towing_ range to be even a serious consideration.
I've been driving my Tesla for almost 2 years and the acceleration is still a ton of fun. It's also very handy when you need to get some place and others aren't giving you space - instant torque often solves the problem. Considering how hard it is on the tires, I don't punch it at every stoplight like my first few months with it.
Of course, if everyone gets an EV, I lose my performance advantage. Sigh.
Had an 87 Camry. It lasted 30 years and 330,000 miles. EVs only last as long as the battery lasts. I understand EV batteries generally last 8 years.
Like me there are millions living in apartments and condos where there is no infrastructure at all for plugging in a vehicle. The cost to retrofit a parking garage in a condo would be enormous if possible at all.
Then add building/landlord insurance on top of that, and see how it affects rent for buddy who wanted to charge all night underground......
Imagine a battery fire underground it would be a disaster. No thank you.
@@jacquesc3166
What's your point other than you're not in a position to buy an EV and nobody is going to force you to buy an EV? Infrastructure takes time and property owners will get huge govt rebates to install chargers in Apts. Until then you're just going to have to stick to gas Capt obvious.
I could buy an EV; I choose not to fall for that nonsense. You sound like a typical leftie fantasy land socialist where the gov can hand out infinite money consequence free for whatever purpose and we'll all live in utopia. BTW the term is subsidies not rebates for what you are referring to. @@saynotokaren9904
I know this is an older article but just wanted to point out that in Wisconsin it's illegal to generate and sell energy. So Tesla can't put in solar panels.
PS..i put on 24k miles on my tesla last year. I went Almost the whole winter never having to stop anywhere to 'fill up". All my charging dine at home in the garage. That's a huge advantage in Wisconsin.
cant say i hate them , but i would prefer the market remain free with choice to the consumer..new does not always mean better
Agreed. And the government trying to make us go there isn’t the way, especially when they stop the oil pipelines and stop drilling and forcing the price of gas to go up so it looks more affordable to drive an electric
It's not free. Oil money heavily influences politics and the policies passed.
@@kahless0173 Is that why the government shamelessly steals from everyone to subsidize EV purchases?
So main takeaways:
1. We need more chargers (and faster charging) which means we need to show how these can be lucrative (no subsidies, just profit)
2. We need better education about EVs (people like Roman's wife, etc)
3. We need price parity with ICE (but in something livable with decent range)
In southern Marryland most of are superchargers are at Wawa gas station.
As others have said, the idea of EV's are great. The batteries and charging grid isn't. I hate having hypocritical politicians demanding we switch without the technology being ready. Once new battery tech is ready with longer range, faster charging, lower cost, and far less rare earth destroying components.
The infrastructure and technology is growing and getting better for EVs. In the beginning fossil fuel cars didn't have the technology and infrastructure it has now.
I like them all. I have a Model 3 Performance and now looking at a used 1/2 ton pickup to haul toys and tools. As a commuter and grocery getter, it's hard to beat an EV. I used to spend around 3000-4000 a year in fuel. Now I spend about $800 in extra electric. I wouldn't have bought one if I couldn't charge at home though. They will definitely not work for everyone and the politicians that are pushing to ban gas cars so soon are delusional.
Delusional Yes but I think it is inevitable and I own an EV / HEV shop here in Houston. I am contributing in a little way to make transition a bit less fearful with my fair price in service
When listening to this discussion, imagine that the conversation is about cell phones in the early days of building out infrastructure and phone technology. For those who missed that era, phones constantly dropped connections, cell towers gave spotty coverage and each company had their own territory. Customers paid roaming fees when traveling, sometimes within the same city.
Nathan made the comment that electric cars are too complex for new users. I agree they are unfamiliar and a new user does need some guidance, but too complex? If you have never been in a Tesla and someone hands you the key card, do this: look at the back of the card where a drawing shows you where to hold the card to unlock the car. Get in and look at the screen. An animation shows you where to place the card to start the car. Press the brake, put it in gear and drive. As with any car you are unfamiliar with, take the time to set seat position and mirrors and get familiar with where basic controls like lights and wipers are. A lot of cars, gas and electric, have functions buried in screen menus and that is confusing. I drive a Tesla and have no problem navigating the screen but I would be lost in an ICE BMW or Mercedes.
Dreamer, there are more than 1.5 million reservations in front of you. Those European charging stations are few and far between and they use CSS-2. Charging is normally only to about 80% so you have a lot of leeway. My EV charges to 80% and you have to push the range extender button to get that last 20%. I have used it perhaps ten times in the last eight years. 40% of all power in the US is green. Where I live it is 100% green power with hydro, solar & wind, 12.5¢/Kw vs $4.60/gal, or EV 4¢/mi vs 15¢/mi ICE and no maintenance 1:02:34 1:02:39 1:02:48 . 300 miles at 0 degrees which is about 500 miles at 75 degrees.
@50:00 The blue screen glitch fluoride stare when an EV lover hits reality.
😂😂😂
Question… if there was a way to pump gasoline at your housese for half the price of gas at a gas station… would you still primarily rely on the gas stations for your fuel or fuel up at home? This would be the same as charging at home vs going to the gas station. Yes sometimes you would have to charge/ fuel up at one but you would really try to do it at home.
Sounds like you'll enjoy living in a pod in the fifteen minute city eating bugs.
@@M8Stealth 😆 🤣
Stopping for gas once or twice a month, spending $40 to $60 a month in gas is well worth the advantages of a gas powered car.
@@M8Stealth MUH FREEDOMS!
@@jkholley1118 I don’t have any issue with that at all. I own a 2019 Nissan Titan with the 5.6L V8! Love that truck. But the issue folks keep bringing up with electric vehicles is “charging is too slow at a station” and my point is do it at night at home. If you have other issues than yeah I agree don’t buy it. But let’s be genuine and honest… having only a political issue with it and not a financial/ functional issue with it makes no sense to me. In the end we have to do what’s best for ourselves in each and every situation. Otherwise we are sacrificing for someone else and there is no guarantee they would reciprocate. Thus it only hurts you in the end.
I live in an apartment with no garage and I have to find parking on the street. An EV ain't going to happen in my life any time soon.
I disagree about the fire issue but besides that, you mentioned how inexpensive used EVs are which is cool if you are looking for a used EV but not if you bought one new and now want to sell it, so, include resale value to the list. The other issue is now appearing, insurance cost. Then there is the issue of air conditioning and heat negatively affecting range. There is also an issue when any sort of body work is involved.
The fact is that after you own one for 5 years it's unsellable. Only an idiot would spend 15000 or more for a paperweight. Batteries need replacement by 8 years and the cost be more then a new vehicle. A year old pickup sells for 15000 to 20000. 10 year old ev pick up is a gamble. No warranty and battery can quite any day making it worth less
There are many issues why I will never buy one.
1: Poor range, worse range in the cold, even worse range while towing
2: Too slow to refuel
3: Unable to carry more fuel with you (can't bring a 5 gallon can of electricity)
4: Too complicated to refuel, I do not have a smart phone and I will do anything to avoid getting one. You cannot just swipe a card at these charging stations.
5: Not enough charging stations
6: Fire risk, although the chance of fire is small IF it happens it is so severe that it cannot be extinguished and will burn down your house or anything in close proximity.
6a: If the vehicle catches fire it releases toxic heavy metals which can cause cobalt poisoning which can cause permanent disability
6b: Some insurance companies are refusing to cover building replacement if an electric car is parked in the garage and is the cause of the fire
6c: Some parking garages are no longer allowing electric cars to park inside them because of fire risk
6d: Some towing companies are starting to refuse to tow electric cars that have been damaged in an accident (fire risk)
7: The depreciation curve is way to steep on an electric vehicle, in extreme cases 50% in the first year
8: Non serviceable by the end user. Despite the claims that they are "simple" There are many complex and expensive components that the average person or technician is not qualified to service. Without proper training on specific products high voltage DC will kill you.
9: More expensive to repair and slower turn around time after a collision and are more likely to be totaled by an insurance company
10: A battery failure outside of warranty is a repair that is so expensive the car might as well be scrapped
11: Why would you spend 100k on an F150 lightning when you could buy a more capable 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a gasoline or diesel engine for a lot less money? Like enough money left over you could install a natural gas genset with an automatic transfer switch in your house and still have money left over.
12: Because when the government tells me to do something I have the strong urge to put up my middle finger
I love technology. I love the idea of the EV with all the bell and whistles and helping the environment. I hate the range limitations, cold weather issues, limited charging locations, inconvenience, and excessive cost and EOL issues. There is zero reason, besides I like gadgets to purchase an EV. Sell them cheaper or for the same price, make it more convenient, make them so that I don't lose my butt when I want to sell it, and I'll buy one immediately.
Everyone "loves" the idea that EV's are "saving the environment". Unfortunately, the truth might be far different, but nobody seems to want to either discuss or acknowledge that. The environmental impact of a vehicle is so much more than just what comes out of the "tailpipe". The vehicle has to be built - that requires natural resources, and a subsequent environmental impact (to include the machinery used to acquire those natural resources, which at this time are not EV's themselves). It has to be maintained - that has an environmental impact. It has to be "fueled" - that has an environmental impact. And, it has to be disposed of (or potentially recycled?) at some point at the end of it's lifecycle - again, an environmental impact. You have to account for ALL of that and add it all up. If you do, you might be surprised at the result......
do you want someone to change your diaper too?
@@222aint I've changed more diapers that a sh!t stain like you could ever imagine. I've also owned more cars than most people, worked on them, and then sold them. Try trolling elsewhere.
@@mx3727correct, the idea that EV’s are environmentally friendly is a lie. Between the toxic waste created in the production and disposal of batteries and solar panels to the mining of rare earth minerals required for the batteries and solar panels. Just look into the Chinese owned cobalt mines in the Congo. They are using men, women and children as slave labor without any basic safety precautions or requirements. It’s nothing more than emotional manipulation.
Every study seems to be on how many fires ice compared to electric. I would like to see a dollar figure comparison cause ev are much worse. Also an injury comparison as well. How many doesn't matter as much if we comparing a camp fire to a nuclear bomb.
Exactly. Even many parking garages in EV friendly places like NYC ban EV's from parking there due to the hazard/risk of an EV fire which could be 8-figures +
I think the issue is infrastructure and rate of charge. I am glad EVs are still usable by many and hence a good start. But when there are more efficient, it will add a lot of load on electric grids and electric ⚡ prices will jack up (and up and up) and will not be fluctuating like gas.
On pollution and carbon emissions, instead of individual car level, it will be at the Power Station level.
Pollution is still not going away.
Exactly in this country USA the government lets the scumbag oil companies do whatever they feel like doing just like the drug companies people have to go to Canada to get insulin because instead of costing $30 it cost $300 in USA. That's why all the immigrants are pouring into the US so they can pay more for everything and earn shift wages without the university degrees. Oh did I mention no healthcare plan that anybody can afford that you can buy on your own did I, did I.... Did I
Hybrids have been around for 25 years - why can they not make a case for them?
Partly because most makes can't be trusted to make them. In the cheap space, who needs two distinct systems built around planned obsolescence? Toyota cant make enough of them, they move more RAV4, Highlander, Prius Hybrids than the rest of the makes hybrids combined.
I don't really care about 500 miles of range, but charging to go for 3 hours of highway driving in 15 minutes (realistic, not EPA). So for me, that would be 360KM of range in 15 minutes.
I've been timing on my trips in my PHEV. I will plug in to a level 2 charger and do a bio break, which take about 6 minutes. If I meander a bit and maybe buy a snack it's more like 12 minutes. Waiting longer than 15 minutes makes it seem like I'm just standing around waiting for my car to charge is just going to be frustrating and make trips miserable.
Try roadtripping with a family - more bladders is more time. Our stops are normally 20 minutes and the car is waiting on us at that point.
The reality about Ev. 300 mile drivers but mostly local driving is easily doable. That makes them viable. So pricing below ice is the must.
It’s not just America.
Some home insurance companies charge higher rates if the ev charger is installed inside the garage.
Not all do. Shop around and go with the best overall rate for the coverage you need. Not only does mine not care, but they even cover my solar roof.
When I am thinking about buying a new vehicle I look at price first, then second I call my mechanic and ask how easy it is to get parts/repair. One thing I have learned is that the more complicated a machine is, then there are more parts that can fail and the more unreliable it is. Electric cars take the worst qualities from gas cars like computer controlled safety systems that take control away from the driver and makes it the main part of the electric cars. I think high tech systems on a car are fine in a sports car or SUV because it is usually a second vehicle. For a daily driver I need it to be 100% reliable to get to work everyday. If I pay attention to my vehicle I can tell when it is "acting up" and take it to my mechanic and get it fixed in a few hours. The main reason I don't want an electric car is because I don't want to be part of a group of car drivers that are horrible drivers that don't use signal lights, don't know how to merge and are so arrogant that they take 2 spots in a parking lot. The thing I never understood about electric cars is that every brand has a different electric plug. Every house in North America has one design for wall plugs so why not have every electric car sold in North America use one charging plug design. The other problem I have with electric cars is the charging and the self-important attitude of electric car owners who leave their car at a public charger for hours. Electric car owners don't think about anyone but themselves because they think they are single-handedly saving the planet. The idea that electric vehicles are maintenance free is not completely true. The problem is that the battery is sealed and you can't easily see the battery and wiring. There is a video where a Tesla car is put on a lift and the panels removed and they found 2 or 3 rat nests. The rats were chewing on the wiring and making nests because the battery compartment is warm and a good home for rodents. To make converting to an electric car easier I think every car manufacturer should create an app that will help give step-by-step instructions to a new electric car owner on how to use & charge your car and explain range and the more technical terms that a new owner might not be familiar with. If all electric cars came with an app it would make charging easier because it could also show you the battery charging rate and set off a alarm on your phone when the car is charged to 80% or 100% or whatever number you selected so you know when your car is finished charging. When car manufacturers eventually figure out they can copy cell phone wireless charging technology then electric cars can be parked beside a gas car and charged without plugging them in because parking lots will eventually have "charging plates" under every parking spot.
The thing the dealers don’t want you to know is that they really make their money after they sell you the car. They make more $ off you for all the services that a traditional car requires. With EV’s there’s almost no maintenance. It’s not the range, it’s not the cost of batteries, it’s not that it’s more difficult to sell. There’s simply no incentive in it for them to sell EV’S. I bought new a 2020 Nissan Altima. It’s got 50k miles on it and I’m dealing with transmission fluid changes, oil changes, fuel dilution in the oil because it is a direct injection engine(like most ICE vehicles), carbon buildup on the valves, fluid change for my transfer case and differential. It never ends. And this is for a car that runs great. My next car will absolutely be a Tesla model 3. About the same price as my Altima but gets equivalent of 70MPG and is fast as a Porsche with almost no maintenance. Oh ya, no haggling on the price and they don’t depreciate nearly as much as an ICE vehicle. I honestly don’t even know how there is a debate of ICE vs EV.
If big oil has so much influence how did we get to the point where folks are getting big tax breaks and money to buy an EV? And companies are getting billions to make batteries and EVs in the US? Big oil needs fire all their lobbyists 😂
It's a tech race. US doesn't want to be left behind. I'll take an American made car with local fuel over a foreign made car with Saudi or Russian oil any day.
People don’t hate EVs. Most people hate the hypocrisy that surrounds them.
35:00 - don't forget that a significant amount of charging is going to happen at home/offices. Do you count the chargers that people have at their home in the half million? Some portion of them?
I agree with Nathan on making 85% the new 100% and create a range boost mode
I am a 2020 Bolt owner with about 10k miles and I only use it locally and charge it twice a month at home. Love it. It takes off like a rocket and makes no noise. All your points are valid. The best would be a hybrid with at least a 100 mile EV range. I could charge at home and take on road trips using gas. Why not have a small ICE generating enough power to run the electric motor when needed like when the battery is too low. Or another idea is have the small ICE generator that kicks on when your battery at below say 40% . Can a RV generator do that now?
I love EV! I just won't go to it yet until the infrastructure is better (i.e. gas station style filling stations/quicker filling)
Yea, when I can pull in anywhere and get a 25% charge in 5mins or a 50% in 12-15 I’ll think about it. I do love my electric (cordless) lawn mower 😂.
@@SunnynPhilly you can literally do that now.
Teslas can hit 80% in 20 minutes. Ionic 5 can do it in 18 minutes. But even in less than ideal conditions, 50% in 15 minutes is not a problem.
EVs will NEVER charge as fast as a 19,000kW gasoline pump.
SO GRATEFUL FOR THIS VIDEO!!!;)
Electricity is one of the most expensive reoccuring cost to families budgets. Imagine if we all had ti charge our EVs.
Let alone the grid cannot support the current load, imagine if suddenly everyone got EVs lol more blackouts
My daughter agrees with Nathan. She drives a Nissan Leaf that she charges to 100% daily. Why are her parents afraid to charge their Teslas over 80%? She has no time to worry about limiting her charging and would pay extra for a "Range Boost" button. It's all about marketing.
To charge a Model 3 from 20% to 80% only takes 15 minutes. Lithium Ion you should never charge or discharge out of this range for longevity. Tesla you can configure the car to use this change/discharge range by default the way it comes from the factory.
The charging has to be quicker. It takes about 5 minutes to fill my ICE tank. If It takes 45 minutes to charge compared to 5 minutes can you imagine how many charging stations would be needed? I know some of this could be mitigated if cars are charged at home overnight. The batteries need to be exchangeable quickly like my power tools. Also I routinely do a 320 mile trip so 500 mile range is more like it. Keep in mind that a battery pack that weighs 1,000 lb has less energy than 80 lbs of gasoline. Basic science.
My lightning standard range xlt is the nicest car I've owned. Cold weather range takes some getting use to. No knocking lifters on start up, no 8 speed transmissions that you can't change the fluid on. And I could go on. Plus Canada is 6 dollars a gallon for regular gasoline. I'm saving a ton of money compared to fueling my Ram 1500 Hemi.
1. 99% of the time an EV cuts me off while towing my 5th wheel or driving my truck. F250 + RV do the math. Driving an EV must lower your IQ? 2. Road Taxes - wait for it! They don’t pay for fuel this will become a huge issue soon. 3. The batteries are toxic as well made from conflict minerals. 4. Where is the power supply for them? 5. Battery disposals where are you going to get ride of 1,000. Lbs? I could keep going.
In this episode, Roman did the key calculation that matters. It is the calculation at the center of the Auto industry. It is what makes everything possible, and makes the transportation world go round. It is a calculation of scalability. On the back of his envelope, Roman showed that electric cars do not scale, and thus cannot work. As with many other people, Nathan did not seem to understand the import of this engineering calculation. There is no getting around it. Non-scalable solutions are not viable, no matter anyone's wishes: green crusaders, governments alike, it matters not. Please everyone pay attention to this critical singular fact, because it drives everything, and will continue to define winners and losers going forwards, no matter anyone's wishes or desires.
When "the powers that be" force EVs upon people and lie about the benefits and experience.. what do you expect?
Plus it really doesn’t matter when china still opens two coal power plants a month. Also all the stuff people buy doesn’t get here from china 🇨🇳 on a sail boat ⛴️.
I believe it was on a Ted talk that they stated that due to all the rare earth elements needed to be mined to create an electric vehicle they would need to get approx 1000 per charge to actually be better for the environment vs ice.
Your post makes me want to Buy more Toyota Stock.
Musk is an amazing genius.
yall said you don't talk politics. but 100% the rise of the electric car was promoted by the government and drilling was halted by 'em as well.
No range, to long to charge, no place to charge, broken down chargers and to expensive to buy. Don`t want them pushed down my throat. I will buy one when I can stop at a charging station, plug up, go to the bathroom, get a drink, unplug and go.
We don't want this EV craze rammed down our throat It's the mandates! Get the government out of peoples choices and let the market decide which car people drive.
Prior to seeing actual Tesla Roadster, Lotus Elise, Mazda Miata I was thinking that any of them would be the perfect vehicle. One major problem with all of them, too damn small for the typical American...
So I stuck with my MINI Cooper S to be eventually supplemented with a MINI Roadster which is large enough for my stature...
I don't hate EV's, but Tesla's are just boring unless you're into driving a suppository.
I drive gas vehicles and I also test drove a tesla 85 d some years ago. Trust me they're not boring. The instant torque is insane.
My model 3 will blow your doors anytime of the day and it's not a sports car you goof and I said goof respectfully
I stopped watching tfl for 18 months when the EV craze started... glad they are seeing the reality of them now.
Spending money to fight a phantom problem is insanity. During the Cretaceous Hot Greenhouse period global average temperatures remained around 85 degrees for several million years. The polar ice caps were completely absent during this period. And...the dinosaurs did not seem to mind at all.
Electric is just so easy and good. If it fits your lifestyle don't hesitate ,but do your homework first and buy the right one for your use.
Best comment. A Tesla to cattle rancher from North Dakota is the dumbest idea ever. A one ton truck is the dumbest idea for me, a city dweller. EVs have its place and audience.
@@Yihooni exactly... I have a old HD diesel truck also, it's always handy to have a work truck😆
Good? I beg to differ
@@honda116969 don't really care
id like to see ppl compare to see how much gas they could get for the price difference
I hear GM is 'planning' on ULTIUM EV Conversion kits for various older ICE vehicles (trucks most likely the first start). Who else here agrees that the Chevy Avalanche should be the first adapted kit? I'd be in line to buy one. I have a 2013 Black Diamond Avalanche that runs fine but runs at 17 MPG on a good day...
If you are worried about the environment let’s talk about how they get the minerals for the batteries. And tell me one person who would by a gas car that they tell you to only use 60% of the gas tank and takes forever to fill up. Time is money.
The carbon footprint for a ice vehicle is the issue and we are living it today!
@@gmv0553 again. Look at what they do to get the minerals for the batteries. And look at the carbon footprint of other countries like India and china.
Go check Chicago & see why 😂😂😂
NO MORE TAX CREDITS!!!!!!!!!!!!
STOP STEALING TAX PAYERS MONEY TO PAY FOR SOMEBODY ELSES CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
America Hates Electric Vehicles - Why Is That? Elon Musk. That's what.
Thankfully, we are getting more and more other EVs from other manufacturers, so we have options.
@@thekat-dg9fx But they still suck. Elon's to blame on making EVs trendy in the first place.
Everything that Elon says about EVs are complete bogus like his dumb billionaire brain. He tricked the entire auto industry to think that EVs are efficient and would save the environment. All of that is a complete lie!
There are a few things I would have to disagree with you. You do not need 5x more charging stations compare to gas stations, since 90% of the time you can charge from home. Can you fill up the gas from home? No you can't! Average people do not do over 300 miles road trips often per year. You actually spend less time charging at super chargers per year when you add up all the trips you take to the gas stations and oil changes. I used to get gas from my Costco, because they are little cheaper. There usually a long line. It usually takes me between 15-20 minutes to get gas per week. Plus oil change 2x a year. That is about one hour appointment each. If you do the math, that adds up to almost 15-20 hours a year. I spend less than 5 hours total at supercharger each year.
EVs are for people who are not into cars. For people who don’t mind not driving the car they love, unless they actually love driving the EV. It gets more complicated regarding 4x4 overlanding EVs. They’re only good for commuting so you’ll be back home to charge again. Road trip distances are already a feat but EVs adds extra distance due to charging locations, and then you have to stay charging for at least 30-45 mins to get to 80% charge, not even full charge! Would you be comfortable water fording an EV knowing there’s a big battery that can get submerged under water? Water fording deep water happens once in a while. Especially those Australian guys that water fords like submarines. These overland vehicles can get really heavy with extra equipment and these EVs loses lots of range when loaded. Off-roading on trails where you drive low gears uphills you’ll lose lots of range more than how gas handles it, then good luck finding a charging station nearby when you’re out in the boonies. EVs are not for doing truck things.
In the past, when people travelled by horse and carriage, they also hated the first car and steam train. It will blow over.
Good episode! I think there is valid reticence on going EV. But I don’t think the growth of EVs has really stalled or capped. It’s going to keep going up for quite a while, even if some of these pain points aren’t fixed. People are choosing to own or at least try EVs, with no government mandates forcing the issue (today)
It helps when the government is willing to steal from others to pay for part of your car.
One word: range. If I take a cross country road trip, I don't want to have to stop and wait to charge it more than once per day. Maybe if they got 500 mi. (even 400 mi.) so that it would outlast me, it would be fine.
@29:40 The last thing we need with a new technology is more rules, and penalties.. Who on earth would choose an EV to make their lives more complicated? When you're trying to sell a new technology you want to make things less complicated for people, not more complicated.
I can tell you why I don't like EVs. It's the batteries. Show me any battery ever in your life that was 10 years old and still strong. My youngest car is 8 years old right now. The next is 14. The next is 20, and the next is 24.
How would these ever still be on the road if they were battery-powered?
When they can make an EV for 25,000 that is widely available, reliable, repairable, good warranty, from a reputable manufacturer, and has 250+ mile range EV's will become much more popular and start to move mainstream. Then there will be much more incentive for a better charging network. It's just got to start with an affordable EV for the common man that we have confidence we are not wasting money on.
Cost of the car is a big factor but charging is right behind. In my State, it is a PIA to find an open charger and then wait 2-6 hrs charging. Fast chargers, level 3, are better but seem to always be broken or a long line. Too much stress for a working class.
Depends on the car, but we are nearly there - depending on where you live and what you buy. There is a $7500 tax incentive for EVs with batteries made in America, many states have incentives too and even some cities and utility companies. Under the right circumstances, you can actually buy an EV for well under $25k.
@@CeasarBergonia Tesla chargers have a greater than 97% reliability. They are the only network doing that. When a stall is out of order, the navigation system tells you. However, since most Tesla charging locations have 8 or more stalls (sometimes dozens), it is highly unlikely you will get stranded because of broken stuff. You might run into lines at high usage locations, but I've personally never waited in line before.
@@JasonTaylor-po5xc when there is only 5 on the whole island, it doesn’t matter if they are 97% up time, it will take hours waiting in line to get a charger. In Hawaii it’s not about being stranded. It is high electricity cost, which is tied to oil prices, and wasting time waiting for a charger. If it’s not a supercharger, then hours waiting for the battery to charge. EV for Hawaii only benefit people with homes with solar.
@@CeasarBergonia Hawaii is screwed regardless since you have to import everything except pineapples. Most folks charge overnight, so it only takes a few seconds to plugin and unplug. Can't help you on electric rates - that's the cost of living in paradise.
With circle K, shell oil now having chargers and USA investing in charger network, EVs will grow. First car 1886, first gas station,1911. Gas stations have higher margins on food they sell. So I’m sure Buckees in Texas will have chargers shortly. I just hope they install chargers out of the way. I can easily see the annoyance of chargers in best parking spots.
Buc ees already have Tesla chargers here in TX. And yes, they are out of way and don’t take up best spots.
@@songj0056 thx for update. I haven’t been there in a while. I charge my car at home so I haven’t checked them out. I usually don’t drive more then 200 miles a day, so home charging is very convenient.
Buc-ees has an arrangement with Tesla to install chargers at all store locations eventually. Many already have them already. I drove from Orlando to Colorado Springs and stopped at two with chargers. Both in Florida have them. The new one north of Denver will get them too. It's a no brainer - you have a captive audience with disposable income.
Generally like these guys except on EVs…who are their sponsors? when they finally get to the subject, they have a very anti-EV bias… Over exaggerating, the weaknesses of something like “charge anxiety“. We have several EVS… the most recent tesla has required zero maintenance, zero repairs and I have a 90% battery capacity (over 200 miles range) every day. Now in Colorado a Tesla can be had for under $20,000! I really don’t understand why these points are not mentioned.
'Repairs, service charges and 'approved' shops'??? No one talks about these matters.
As a daily commuter vehicle, an EV can make a great choice.Charge at home, where you will enjoy low power rates here in Utah at least. For a road trip/traveling/towing vehicle, they still suck. In the truck market, so many tow with their trucks. I can get a 36 gallon tank on an F150 (max tow package), and at 12 MPG (my tow mileage), I get over 400 mile range. Towing range on the Lightning truck is more like 100 miles. And then it can take an hour or more to charge, while I can do a fuel stop in under 10 minutes. Game over. Once range and charge rate is improved (and it will), EVs will make more and more sense. Right now, plug in hybrid makes the most sense. Ten years from now, EVs will be the winners. Need the major truck stops to add EV charging.
Shared charging did occur with version 2 DC chargers from TESLA, but does not occur with version 3, or the newest version 4 units, they don't share the cabinets
It's good to understand v2 chargers are shared because there are still a lot of them around - especially in the middle of the country. If possible, space out every other stall at a V2. Thankfully, all new chargers are V3 or better.
Roman is wrong about needing 5x more EV chargers because charging is slower than filling with fuel. Most charging sessions occur at home. Charging Stations are primarily for EV'S on road trips.
The issue is the same as politics whereas all politics are local so too for EV charging. It also depends on the population density where you live, ie Denver has 714K residents with 4,167 people per square mile whereas NYC has a population of 8+ million with 29,300+ residents per square mile. Goods, jobs, and services are vastly different. EVs should have been an option mostly for bigger city taxis, inner city delivery vehicles where they would have a greater impact on pollution for more of the population. Mandates have helped in the case of improved fuel milage and crash worthiness for all vehicles and we know based of theft rates, repair damage etc insurance coverage has a big influence on what vehicle one selects for their individual needs. Lack of buttons/dials is a biggie especially for us older generation. The fear of change or new tech is a big one too. Anyway I'm happy with my 2016 Spark EV and my 04 GTO.
It’s not the cars we hate, although if you look at what it takes to make the batteries, you realize that they are pretty far from green. It’s the lack of infrastructure. Also, would it kill charging stations to put up canopies over charging spots?
Idle fees may suck but given the entitlement mentality in American nowadays without idle fees, the whole charging network would be clogged up with with charged cars while the owners have a latte because no one gets a s*** about anybody else
With Electrify America there is a grace period once you are done. When the charger goes to trickle charging this is when your timer begins. The last time I used one it stated 10 min time limit I believe.
We dont like being forced to buy something or adopt something unless we are ready or want to.i think we should always have a choice between internal combustion and hybird and electric.
They also have a fire problem
Since 2019 we’ve seen a 36% increase in MSRP across the board.
Environmental impact of mining the materials used to make those EV batteries.
Sitting at a charger for hours at a time VS filling up a gas/diesel tank in a few minutes and being on your way
Ridiculous cost of an EV
Cold/hot weather degradation
Spontaneous battery combustion
There's nothing environmentally friendly about an EV at all.
Well said
The biggest problem for me with switching to an EV is infrastructure. The nearest charging station is 30 min. Away. Charging at home is not happening since i wouldn't be able to upgrade my house without paying a fortune. Also my cars are all old. I can't afford a 30-50k car. Im afraid EVs wont last past 15 years old. Which is how old the price range of cars i can afford.
Exactly my case and that's what one of these guys was saying that it's also a social issue. The people buying these EVs are the ones who have the luxury to buy a new car, own a home, install a charger, and get rid of said car and buy a new one before it gets too old. People can buy a 2004 civic for like $3k or less. Would the people buying that car be willing to pay $3k for a 2004 model 3 (if it existed) knowing the battery is heavily degraded and will probably need replacement soon?
@@Cornelius87 Same with me. There is no way to install and/or use a home charger where I currently live. I park on the street and parking is random. I would not be able to run a cord all the way across a sidewalk and strip of grass even if I could install a charger. The nearest local charger is about 15/20 minutes away and that is the only option. I will keep my ICE car as long as possible and will not be buying an EV anytime soon.
EVs aren't for everyone. I don't understand all the hate, though. People are keying Tesla's and other vandalism. Baffles me
EV prices didn’t drop to ICE levels, gas vehicle prices rose up to meet EVs.
It's both...average transaction prices have been climbing for over a decade.
The average EV is still cheaper now than say 4-5 years ago...they do need a lot more affordable options at the lower half of the market...
@@triaxe-mmb Just heard today the Chevy Bolt is coming back from the dead so that's good.
@@frankcoffey yeah, I was ecstatic when I saw that in my news feed today! It's probably gonna be my next ride
@@triaxe-mmb I have a family member who has a long commute and was paying $800 a month for gas in his Mustang. He got a Bolt and that savings offsets the payments. Like a free car!
@@frankcoffey< He could have gotten a Prius and saved more so out your goes your week rationale.
We don't hate them, we just hate being forced into them before we am ready. We hate that when we bring up any cons for why we don't want one yet we are told basically that those cons don't matter or that you just have to work around them or it's not really a con but an education problem.
Or that those cons will be fixed in time. Sure technology does advance but that’s a hypothetical when people are basing purchasing decisions off of what makes sense for them right now in the present and near future. We were also told that we’d have lunar colonies by now
Don’t forget that combustion cars weren’t ready either (or computers or phones or the internet), this is just how all technologies progress
@@JollyGiant19 of course which is why the mandates to switch have got to be removed until the issues are solved by the free market.
dont bother, they are an EV centric youtube channel, everything that is said that they dont like will be taken as that people hate them...
@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw and there is no free market, it is what government and their friends decide to force upon us. :P
I too hate being forced in the upcoming years into buying an EV. As a fan of performance ICE cars and mechanical objects in general, soulless EV’s just leave me cold. It’s like giving up my Rolex Submariner for an iWatch - that’s just not happening for me
It's the mandates! Get the government out of peoples choices and let the market decide which car people drive.
I don’t want an EV, but the free market argument is weak. Gas is subsidized. If we paid the full price like Europe does, we’d walk or drive those little Fiat clown cars. We just choose gas.
What mandate? There’s no mandate😂😂😂😂 Take your tin foil hat off
New California executive order requires that "by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California be zero-emission vehicles."
Manufacturers are changing to full electric without being mandated!
Exactly, get rid of the subsidies on petroleum then let the people choose 😉