JBL Charge 3 Repair - Part 2
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2024
- JBL Charge 3 Repair - Part 2 - Reassembly and testing
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#ElectronicsCreators #repair #JBL - Наука та технологія
It's amazing how you managed to install both end caps upside down first. Must be an Aussie thing.
It’s really easy with those jbls
Pure skill.
That was the fix, for the Austrian market.
Southern Hemisphere requirement to avoid upside down sounds!
Having things appear to have fixed themselves was a real problem when I worked on aircraft. Every squawk has to be signed off with a disposition. Anything that got pulled out and put back in, or unplugged and replugged might have 'cleaned and straightened connector contacts' when signing it off. Or, if we just wanted to go with on the next test flight 'can not duplicate on ground, request to accompany next test flight '.
Problems can be weird with extreme temperature variation and g forces and vibration. And one never could rule out electrical interference between systems where there's no earth ground, only metal structure for power and signal reference.
My absolute best fault ever was "first bomb landed on target", as a description.
Squawk: dead bugs on windscreen.
Disposition: live bugs on order.
@@coyote_denAutopilot does not engage. Unable to engage on ground.
Interphone volume unbelievably loud. Adjusted volume to be more believable.
This occasionally happens when I "repair" something too. I'd like to think that just trying to repair it scares the thing into working correctly.
I usually just fix it till its broke!
Opening it up released the gas, fart noise solved.
This is the only logical explanation!
Agreed! 😂
He opened it, turned it upside down and all the fartitrons fell out
Yeah, what a relief for the blue JBL thing
I remember the jbl extreme having circuitry dedicated for measuring the audio signal envelope and adjusting the supply rail voltage, presumably just enough so that it doesn’t clip while also improving battery life at very low volumes.
Some larger amplifiers also do envelope tracking, at least one implementation has the disadvantage of adding lag so there's a "game mode" to disable it.
I was going to reply something similar. A lot of Crown amplifiers implement what they call a tracking power supply, were the dual rail voltage can hover at about plus or minus 15 volts, but as soon as you start cranking it it can get as high as 30 to 45 v plus and minus, depending on what model / wattage its rated for.
As these Crown amps often sit idle but powered on 24/7, I suppose doing it this way can make them last longer... But I have actually noticed that tiny delay on certain songs that just start really low and kick in out of nowhere...
A lot of different suggestions. My personal experience with dynamic drivers making THIS exact symptom, Is when the physical mechanism of their operation is "damaged" either the coil has deformed and rubs, or its not completely attached to the cone correctly and slaps the cone when reciprocating. The impact with the other speaker may have altered some already there damage and gotten whatever mechanical noise was, to stop. if it comes back, try swapping the speakers around. or try a different speaker all together.
Yeah, i work in the software industry and not finding the fault is one of the worst things which can happen to you. I can completly relate to you.
Another guy on UA-cam has a video with a similar issue. It was the wire connecting at the speaker terminal. It was more affected by bass and intermittently. The startup sound has more bass than the shutdown sound. But maybe moving the speakers around temporarily fixed it
Possible
@@EEVblog2It's speaker (cone) lead wires, 100%
In this sort of repairs I resolder everything that looks even a bit bad under the microscope and looks for cracks in resistors and ceramic caps.
I wonder if the passive radiator was hitting that wire that is really close to it inside.
My vintage B&O speakers developed a buzzing noise a while back. I took the woofer out and found that the fluffy sound damping stuff inside had slipped down and was pushing the wire for the mid range driver into the path of the woofer.
Fixed one of these not long ago, USB socket got ripped from the Pcb. Quite like these units, got a lot of bottom end for their size.
I have a JBL headset that sometimes had a buzzing/beeping noise when ANC was on. It was also fixed by taking it apart and reassembling it
Probably, something small stuck inside in farting speaker near coils causing limited movement.. At disassembly, when both speakers multiple times stuck together, this was enough to eject out particle..
That particle may be still inside from factory in that speaker, but it isn't altering cone movement anymore..
I have much smaller JBL, which (couple years ago) was a gift from a known electrical parts producer with their logo engraved (looks more like case with that logo was made by JBL but thats my guess). It have a incredible deep bass, loud and in same time very clean sound - not comparable to other JBL-s, which I had to listen. Maybe its a model thing or it was limited production for mentioned company.
The skilled laying on of hands !!
I had a "similar" sound with my Kef MUVO BT-speaker. It appeared to be caused by air leaking through the seal. Tightening the screws fixed it. This all started after the speaker was dropped on the floor. Might be the same issue.
You moved or compressed the battery and this improved its condition for a couple more cycles :) I replaced the battery in my JBL with the farting bass issue. The issue is completely gone after the replacement. It could of course be a mechanical type problem that coincided with the dying battery, but I strongly believe that the explanation you're citing from the repair video comments is the correct one.
Way more likely to be the battery contact resistance.
Thanks for showing how to disassemble this unit, as I got that identical model.
Think mine is about 1 1/2 year old, so no problems yet.
I'm a technology follower, and always buy the older, then cheaper model. That was my best investment, as it's really versatile and has a good bass sound.
I also hate such undiscovered errors. I always want to know the root cause.
Anyhow, I also think it was a problem with the connectors, which was oxidized. Probably it had been one of the higher current connectors, i.e. the right speaker. If it would have been the battery connector, both speakers would have made this blurping sound.
i have two(i pair them in stereo) 1 bought from germany and one from bulgaria. both started experiencing the problem around the 3rd year. the problem is the battery esr. Dave's problem is, that, when he uses the device with no cover the mech load on the speakers is different and the needed current is less. i bought new batteries and the issue disappeared.
Unplugging and plugging back the battery connector fixed it. These things take a couple of Amps at low Voltage and any resistance on the battery connector could give them this sort of flatulence. If you open it up again, maybe connect a resistor in series with the battery, to test the theory?
I had a little pocket speaker years ago that developed a sound basically identical to this clipping noise at high volume, and only with high power output sounds like a bass note or drone.
I thought it was the driver and replaced it with another but it persisted. Even when connected to a power supply instead of battery. I didn't have any serious testing equipment so no scoping but it seemed to be an issue with the amplifier circuit.
It could be a software issue. Maybe due to an undervoltage, at a certain moment, a internal memory containing the sound became corrupted, and stays over the time.
As you disconnected the battery from the board, the micro controller booted up again and reloaded the files, so the sound is fixed…
Just a thought.
Greetings
Unintentional self-recombobulation, eh? Those Heisenbugs.
Might've had an issue with the clips on the end caps because you fitted at least one end upside down, maybe both.
Edit: Just saw the overlay note @1:36 after reading someone elses comment🤣
Also, the white lab coat syndrome happens all the time in the Automotive industry too...any time a mechanic tries to diqgnose a customer's concern with their car, the problem is miraculously gone, or it's super difficult to reproduce🤷♂️👍🇦🇺
My bets are on the reseating the connector off the mainboard. Now If you can just figure out how to clean the cloth covering.
I tried isopropyl but it didn't do much.
@@EEVblog2 Car accessory shop and get some foam upholstery and roof panel cleaner, which you apply dry, and then scrub gently with a soft bristle brush. Or get some foam carpet shampoo, and use the dry foam of that.
That board didn't have a lot of interconnects except to the button oval? So you have to ask, what has changed? Before if you were sampling output to the speaker and there is weird stuff in there that is kind of not audible that is not a great sign. Still think something SMT may be intermittent contact?
I have two hypotheses, one of the two, first: it could have been dirt on the speaker or something else (maybe a piece of foam with glue). Second: in normal use at high volume reproducing low frequencies, the speaker coil may hit the bottom of the pole piece bending the end of the coil, so the defect may present only when reproducing a certain frequency range, it is rare to happen but I've seen it. You accidentally fixed it when one's magnet stuck to the other's cone (part 1 - 7:39). I even thought you were going to change the speaker in the first video 😅
The startup tone is a frequency sweep. It might just always come past the frequency where something was vibrating.
It might have been an oxidized connector. Caig Labs’ Deoxit followed by a naphtha (or cigarette lighter fluid) wash does wonders for problems like this. Sometimes, just unplugging and reseating the connector is all it needs.
Back in the 1990s Caig Labs used to make Cramolin red and Cramolin blue. I first read about them on an audiophile Usenet group, and I was skeptical because audiophiles believe in a lot of ridiculous voodoo. At the time I worked in a neuroscience lab and we were having lot of trouble with noise picked up on Deutsch-like connectors of Grass EEG amplifiers. The pins and sockets were gold filled, but noisy anyway. One treatment with Cramolin, and as Dave says ‘Bob’s your uncle,’ noise was gone. I believe the current Deoxit product isn’t as good as Cramolin, but it is close. I use the D100 100% without the preservative that D5 has and then flush with naphtha.
Dave are you getting the Razer Kiyo Pro Ultra webcamera + you can tear it down? It's rated for the THE BEST web camera on the market. Sony Starvis 2 sensor with AI and no more focus hunting. Looks phenomenal.
I wonder if it wasn't an actual mechanically oriented buzzing, where either some part of the case or physical internal structure was buzzing or bumping up against another part at lower frequencies. This would certainly explain why the symptom disappeared after it was disassembled. Then having sufficiently reoriented and reinstalled the various bits and pieces, now no longer wanting to buzz up against whatever, the fart has passed, so to speak.
Hi, i had the same issue with the same model. I had the same idea with a bad soldering connection on the speaker.
On that case it was the speaker. The joint looked good and shiny but under 75x zoom with a mikroskop i had seen that the hole joint had lost connection from the pad.
After resoldering the problem was fixed.
One year later the other speaker hat the same Issue with the same fix for that.
Meanwhile i have a jbl Xtreme 1 for over 3 years without the issue.
Just amplitude dips in the bass from a wornout batterie.
I hope that help you.
Not that you need those anymore, but did you try contacting JBL to get schematics or service manual?
At least for their professional range they used to be very helpful with repairshops.
It was/is a mechanical driver issue. When the magnet of one driver clashed into the cone of the other I bet it did result in the „fix“. Can’t prove it though. 😅
Maybe it need the connectors to be wiggled about, just how sometimes with a pc unplugging all the drives etc makes it work again.
I understand your frustration...
It sounds like electrical clipping. All I can say is one of the VERY common faults is the SMD capacitors on the output of class D amps. They see significant voltage spikes and go bad. They don't always measure short or obviously bad on a simple low freq. test. Just rip them off to check. Who cares about emi? The rail is probably dropping due to oscillation sucking juice.
Could it be a firmware issue ? I just checked and the firmware is upgradable on this unit.
My bet is the Lead-Free solder on the speaker.
Lead-Free is wawaaay less "flexible" / ductile? than good old leaded. Especially on a driver that vibrates ALL its life, crack in the joint are bound to happen, even if they don't lead to a full disconnect. BUT the BASS sound at startup, has the PUNCH necessary to disjoint the terminal > FARTS.
Since all new-age electronics are made without lead, that's my guess. I've seen this happen in some other portable electronics, everything measures fine (stationary on the bench), but in hand (as it's made to be used) in a dynamic setting, it sorta works at 95% quality.
Could have also been a socketed wire, but you saw they were hot-snoted in... IDK 🤷♂
I'd entertain the thought of this being some kind of acoustic artifact? And you managed to disturb whatever the issue was during the dis and re-assembly?
I dropped my cellphone on snow-dusted pavement a few months ago. It quit working a few days later. I took it apart to see if melting snow got inside and caused corrosion somewhere, couldn't find anything anywhere. Unplugged all non-essential cables in case any of the cameras and sensors shorted out, still only got the logo to show up for a second before powering off. Ordered a replacement phone.
After I got done setting up my new phone, I decided to measure battery voltage on my old phone just in case I missed the most obvious thing, I noticed that I couldn't feel the buzzer going off at power-on as usual when I pushed the power button and thought it was dead. When I flipped it over, it turned out it had turned on and finished booting. I left it on overnight only to find out it died at some point before I looked at it again next morning. Still doing the flash logo and die routine. I decided to clip my DMM on to look at battery voltage, pressed the power button and the phone booted normally again.
It hasn't randomly turned off since.
I also thought that it's the Battery because my JBL Charge 3 Battery needs replacing and after 5 Minutes on full volume it starts to Distort and then shuts off a Minute later.
Probably just a hair stuck in the outer speaker grill impacting the cone at the extreme outward travel. This can be surprisingly loud.
sounds very unlikely. This is not a headphone with a delicate membrane.
Next time try hitting it on the side like we did in the 90's, before doing the tear down :)
Can't assume it was Electrical. Mechanical bits make strange oscillations too ya know!
Dave you put the end caps on arse backwards bloody Aussies 😂😂 my kids have these speakers and had the same problem,take it to bits and back together all good
But you put the end caps on upside down...at least for the Northern Hemisphere!😁
Perhaps, it's a glitch with the software or poor connection.
Dave put the passive radiators on with the jbl logos upside down, oh well she works a treat and glad you fixed it
You didn't read the overlay note, I fixed that.
@@EEVblog my mistake won’t happen again
What's the audio equivalent of all the electrons falling out? 😄
@@JonnyFix hey Johnny, just subbed to your channel, I’m gonna watch some of your video, I am no electronics engineer, but ever since I was a youngster I always loved tearing stuff apart and trying to fix things
@@kristiandawe85 Nice! Hope you find it interesting and or helpful. Nothing beats practice so find some junk and get cracking 😄You don't need to be a genius to figure this stuff out. It's just a few basic fundamentals strung together to solve a particular problem. The hardest part can be figuring out how something works so you can figure out why it doesn't (physical damage aside) and if you can get a schematic for the thing it's worth its weight in gold. While some things have common failure modes, most of the time there's no one solution for a given fault. Solving the puzzle is why I do it. Good luck, see ya round!
All the hallmarks of a speaker touching the housing sounding distorted.
I do have a question about this speaker, how loud can it go before it starts clipping and distorting, I have a altec landing speaker that distorts at about 70% volume, it’s been like that since the day I got it
You heard it at full volume in the video. Mic didn't pick up how loud it was, but you can go full volume and it's very usable, not much distortion. Quite impressive for hte driver size.
@@EEVblog2 well that all I need to know, I think I’ll look into getting one, the shoe phone charging usb-a port will come in handy too for charging up my phone in a pinch
@@kristiandawe85 They have three models of various sizes, this Charge one is the mid size. They are highly regarded.
I use Breathe by the prodigy for checking how loud you can go with some good bass. If you want to have music that you can use on UA-cam, there is the stuff used by Williston audio labs channel on his 'does it bump doe' sections.
JBL (and many others) heavily utilize DSP to fine tune the frequency response on all volume levels. For example if the volume is below 70%, the DSP will boost the bass so it will sound larger/fuller than it should. If the volume is higher than 70%, you can hear it louder, but the bass is becoming less pronounced (thinner). The DSP is set to maximize the speaker driver potential while avoiding clipping/distortion on high volume levels.
Maby some little metal plastic particle stuck to speaker coil.
Where is part 1?
Probably that processor module desperately needed a proper cold boot... BTW thanks for the teardown, now I know how to replace a battery in mine...
That fart sound was like digital trash. Maybe by disconnecting the battery it reloaded that wave file properly into memory ...
Perhaps some junk between the cone and outer cover that was vibrating or some other weird case resonance.
My leading working assumption is a bad/correded contact on the battery connector that got fixed with a wiping action when reconnecting.
Disconnecting the battery sure hard power cycles it. One of the things i keep running into when dealing with weird faults.
Maybe when the magnet slammed into the other speaker It realized you meant business and could destroy the whole thing if it didn't srart acting right
Part Deux? Where's Part 1?
"the fart flask"
Should have cleaned it a bit
This is for part 3, when in goes in the dish washer.
Maybe the file that it playes at startup somehow got corrupted so it sounded like that.
Then during the repair you disconnected enough things to resett it back to it's original state.
Even when it's switch off, it's still got power to the standby circuit and stuff,
but when you took out the boards, you disconnected everything so it got reset.
in all likelihood it was a software related glitch and when you disconnected the battery it was reset
It's a curse. By opening the speaker Dave transferred it somewhere else. xD
Perhaps all the speaker needed was a slap on the wrist to stop acting out!! But you didn't check the battery voltage with the scope probes while reproducing bassy music, to see if it dropped too much? Anyway, if it works it works.
you let the fart out
a fart is a turd's horn for right of way
at least dont play your own god damn voice on it while talking put in some music
Why so aggressiv? Bad day?
Batteries are the usual obvious suspects.
Sir, what do you charge for this specific repair? 🤑🫰