Judging the Paris Peace Conference a Century Later - Margaret Macmillan
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- The peace settlements made at the end of the First World War are often blamed for creating the conditions which sent nations such as Germany and Japan down the road towards dictatorship and led Europe and the world towards the Second World War. The lecture will ask whether the accepted view, that what happened in Paris in 1919 doomed the world to another war is a fair one. It will examine the difficulties of making peace at the end of great wars and the particular challenges before the leaders who met in Paris in 1919. It will look at controversies such as the one over the German peace but also point to achievements such as the League of Nations. Finally, the lecture will also suggest ways we might learn from the past as we face a turbulent and uncertain present.
Lecture given as part of The National WWI Museum and Memorial's 2019 Symposium '1919: Peace?'
For more information about the National WWI Museum and Memorial visit theworldwar.org
Absolutely brilliant and delivered in such a calm, eloquent tone, sometimes even just the right wink. Ms. Macmillan adds such critical and wise perspective to a crucial debate.
I have now watched several of your talks on what lead to WWI and the Paris conference. Brilliant! Let me add that, as a Frenchman, I appreciate your balanced opinion about the French and Belgian "esprit de revanche" which is quite understandable after what these two countries had endured. Merci et bravo!
I think everyone who enjoys these lectures would appreciate a talk from the German/Austria Hungary perspective
That would be good. But German/Austrian academics are harsher critics of themselves than any other scholars. So if you want an unbiased perspective you have to look outside of those countries.
I'm just finishing Ms Macmillan's wonderful book about the peace conference.
That was so good. An hour and a half that felt more like an half hour.
Exactly
I enjoyed Margaret MacMillan presentation and Q&A very much! 👍
Games man ship by all factions no party wanted to carry the paper of Habsburg M Z M
The art of public speaking and debate.
T 'is wonderful.
Well, that was superb. A subject we've all read and heard about a lot, put in a very thought-provoking context.
Excellent presentation! I particularly appreciated learning about the political, economic and social conditions that the representatives at the conference had to deal with while trying to create the treaty.
Lecture begins at 4:47
God bless
Excellent lecture by the legendary Margaret "Magic" Macmillan
🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷
I watched this presentation by her as well as the one on the start oF WWI some time ago. I remember two things. It’s remarkable that she can speak for an hour plus without one um or ah. And that you might think monarchists and aristocrats would be smart but the four monarchies that started WWI (Germany, Russia, Austria and Serbia) thus in effect spelled their doom. In Russia’s case quite literally.
I hope this wonderful professor MacMillan comes back, and comments on current affairs (Ukraine-Russia war) and how it relates to lessons learned from WW1.
Does she have an idea or strategy for negotiating peace in Ukraine? Please offer suggestions. They need help.
Fantastic way of putting it. Greetings and love from Kuala Lumpur
What are you doing in Kuala Lumpar?
...
@@DoodloperLiving there
It is very cute that she mentions Hungary's communist take over/government which lasted a Masonic
133 days before the people put an end to it. Now, I could be off by a little here, but believe me, the
people of Hungary never wanted anything to do with communists, and communism. That is why my
Mother suffered a nervous breakdown after WW2, when the communist retaliations began.
That I will never forgive the communists! They have effectively robbed me of my Mother!
She was a fine woman, my father could attest to that fact. but both of them died before reaching
60 years of age. A fact never to be forgiven.
God bless your beloved Mother and yourself!Part of my Magyar origin makes me understand what you explain.May people understand.
My first encounter with Margaret MacMillan. Not sure how I haven't heard her speak before. This was amazing.
Excellent talk, but some important points were missed.
Wilson’s Fourteen Points principles are not mentioned. The fact that these principles were not applied evenly led to a slew of problems which continue to haunt us today. The issue of the Kurds is just one example.
Excellent! I'm learning So much!
You learn Alies Winner Propaganda, that is learning lies
The end of WW I also gave us (a Gertrude Stein referred to as a) the Lost Generation
She speaks intelligently and expertly.
Ever since the pandemic - we look at the events of that time period a little differently. This video was just months before the pandemic - and we would anticipate that the one that was raging in 1919 is not mentioned in this presentation. It’s not really a criticism - it’s just how things happen.
I ask myself as well.
This was a brilliant lecture from a highly erudite lady. I quite liked her. But I cannot deny that arrogant Keynes was right, actually. Later events proved him right. Not just the WWII rooted in those botched treaties, but also that the artificial countries manufactured by these peacemakers in Europe, namely Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia fell apart. One of them peacefully, the other with a lot of bloodshed, but both disappeared, because they were not viable.
The hypernationalism, and the turning of the nation state into a sort of demi-god, that came out of France after 1789 is what absolutely destroyed Europe during the period 1914-45 and later the world once the Euros exported it everywhere else. The philosophical idea that every ethnic group that considered itself a 'nation' was entitled to its own sovereign state has fueled endless conflicts around the world down to this very moment and destroyed many ancient civilizations that were once peaceful (to the extent that peace is possible in this world) and prosperous. Nationalism has been a disease that the world has suffered from for far too long and the day it disappears will be a great day for humanity.
Loved her comments about John Maynard Keynes being from Cambridge. Also, I don't usually comment on clothes but yes Simone her sweater/cardigan is beautiful.
She's related to David Lloyd George and Dan Snow? That makes sense she's a wonderful storyteller and great historian.
Certes
😊
32:17, books on the Paris Peace Conference.
Keynes condemned the Versailles Treaty, which, we now know, was not harsh enough to prevent a recurrence of a German aggression.
What was needed was to find out the cause of German aggression and face that direct in with resolving any reason for the Germans to want to cause war.
...
Actually, their starvation from cruel economic warfare by the Treaty of Versailles stipulations, assured a backlash by Germans, in order to survive.
The real question is are we better at starting wars?
One can ponder on the extent of the Crimes Against Humanity.
Lecture starts 5 00 spot
Wasn’t David Lloyd George her uncle?
In 1929 Germany held the “Freedom Referendum” to repudiate the Reparations Clause. The referendum FAILED due to popular apathy with the issue.
I want more historians to talk about THAT!
Apathie.
google Dépréciation of the Mark.
I think Keynes knew what decisions would have been better.
I guess my question is, why was Germany let her when just a armistice?
An excellent lecture as always but what I really want to discuss is where on Earth did Professor Macmillan get her fabulous cardigan?? 🤩
I thought that was pretty stylish too
article 231 says that Germany accepts "responsibility ...for the loss and damages" NOT for the war. It was NOT intended as a "guilt clause" and was in all included to justify reparations NOT indemnities. Even if it had been refering to the origins of the war, it would not have been completely right but not completely wrong either (Cf Fritz Fischer). It is interesting to note that today, Putin uses the same argumentation as Germany to explain he did not start the war in Ukraine but only had to defend Russia against the defensive alliance against it.
It was absolutely rational for Germans not wanting to pay, much less for UK and US to help them, especially since they were the linchpin in the web of debts and it was in Wislon's 14 points: "invaded portions (should be) restored"
MacMillan is one of the greatest talkers of all times.
Update: Ms. MMac has been talking about 1919 & pandemics - old & new.
Aren't all peace treaties imperfect compromises? Aren't they all subject to the balance (disequilibrium) of power after a conflict? Why was Versailles treated differently and why is it still such a heated subject? Vienna 1815 is often considered as the Gold Standard of Peace treaties; yet, what remains of Metternich's restauration of monarchies?
The only reason I find why Versailles is still so hot is that it started with much higher global ambitions reagrding the international system and in so doing probably bit more than it could chew and swallow. What remains is both the hope it sowed and the skepticism such ambitions are achievable. This dramatic mix of idealism and realism is the very fabric of international relations. It is worthy of our affection because it is human
The racist demonization in Keynes' pamphlet was extremely vicious and became a springboard for Nazi revisionism and British apeasement policy. I don't know of any other example of a member of negotiation team writing such insults against ALL participants. Actually, I don't understand why it was not considered as treason. First because as a delegate, Keynes should have been constrained by some restraint in his judgment and second because his biased views were constructed to a large extent by his infatuation with Melchior, a German delegate. IMHO, it is not Versailles but Keynes undermining of Versailles that is mostly responsible for WWII.
Versailles was criticized because it resulted in WWII 20 years later.
Great historian, excellent speaker.
quite a historian, author, and lady!
Can somebody tell me how Spain and Portugal did not get enguled the war when the rest of Europe was at war? Same thing in WW2
Portugal did
Well, Spain had just been through the Spanish Civil War. I do think the Spanish were complicit with the German fascists.
During WWI Spain had Her own war in Morocco. However, there were some idiots in the Spaniard Congress that tried to get Spain to the side of Germany, arguing that it would be profitable to gain territory. Others tried to get Spain with the allies. The King´s mother was for the Germans, the King´s wife for the British. The end results of that push and pull was net zero, nothing, no move.
And Holland did not get involved. I think the position of Holland saved it from being involved. Belgium was the obstacle, and was invaded by germany.
Noté.
Margaret MacMillan is the great grand-daughter of Lloyd George. Beautiful cardigan I agree.
He seduced so many women, he may have had 1,000 granddaughters.
She has no clue about history and really a bad Taste.
This alone should be sufficient to question every sentence she writes.
Imagine the great grand-daughter of Georges Clemencau doing the same. Nobody would believe a single word of her.
Not necessarily - you really think that someone she likely doesn't remember (Llyod George died when she was about two), would stand out so strong in her mind? I mean it's possible. I don't have any particular affinity for and of my great grandparents though, because I didn't know them. They all died before I was born or before I really knew who they were. And that included one of my great grandmothers who lived till I was about 8 (I only met her about three times).
@@mariocalderon2148 One can still form one's own opinions despite being related to the powerful or someone you greatly admired.
I live in that part Czech and Poland were fighting for. Im Czech :D.
Battle of Spionkop, 1902 first Submarine, 1904-1919 Blockade of German and Austrian harbors, 1919/1920 invasion of Russia via Baltic Sea. Prosperity in mainland Europe was the actual problem.
I thought the first use of submarine were in the Spanish American war of 1898
1904...
1898.....9.9.9
Once again, we can’t use the term First World War - until it happened. The peace conference was after and to deal with the Great War
It was a class war, no question.
Correction: Hitler was a young Austrian corporal, not German. He obtained German citizenship some time after the end of WW l.
German army corporal?
I know Hitler was born a bit on t Austrian side of t border. But didn't he serve in the German Army in WWI? I Know he fought on the Western front. And I always think of Austria as fighting in the East.
@@paulbabcock2428 "he" served in the Bavarian Army (which existed from 1682 to 1919). Also, "he" obtained the German citizenship 1932, so he could be elected.
All good and well this revisionism, in the end this peace destroyed both the French and British Empire aswel by sowing the seeds of the second world war. They should have taken example from Vienna in 1815, respecting the loser (France) as opposed to ruining an enemy that had almost won. And quite honestly the American ideas unleashed the dogs of nationalism. Dismembering the Habsburgs and Ottomans was insane if the goal had ever been to contain Germany. And they never forgot how the food was still blocked after this peace conference it took a long time until the child deaths from hunger had stopped.
A poster on here asked why was the 1914-1918 conflict called the great war? It wasn't because war is great because it isn't. The great refers to the scale of the war. Pan European and with other theatres in Africa. Smaller actions in the pacific and of course the war on the seas, mainly in the Atlantic.
so, @28:00 minutes or so, my country, Hungary is punished for wanting to maintain the land area it
has ruled for a thousand years before? If it wasn't for the Hapsburg dynasty, Hungary could have been
a FREE country full of FREE people before Hungarians and Poles have saved Vienna from the Turks.
If it wasn't for Sobieski and his winged Hussars, Vienna would be a Muslim town right now.
As a British citizen but with a Hungarian family and living in Hungary I agree that Trianon still rankles with many Hungarians ,and I think it’s true that they got a raw deal after WW1 …
Hm, after all, she is right!
the root of all problem
I find it ironic she emphasizes warning against simplistic answers to history but then states the Great Depression cause WW2 not WW1 with no strong evidentiary support or nuance.
Irony at its finest.
Humanity will always justify their actions based on some precedent.
What we must emphasize and imprint on our future descendants is the interconnectedness of our actions, nothing occurs in a vacuum, and never cherry pick to fit facts to a theory. Rather we must create theories that hold up to an always increasing array of facts.
If you'd like a reason why both WW1 & WW2 happened, it is from humanities selective ignorance of facts which contradicted ideology people & organizations required to profit from & seize/maintain power.
To suggest that the French were not involved in the beginning of World War 1 is straightforwardly wrong.
The French President and Premier were in Russia when Austria Hungary sent their Ultimatum to Serbia. Russia and France clearly discussed their COMBINED Response. When Russia were contemplating their call up, they cleared it with France which made it clear that France would fully support the Russians.
Blaming Germany for begining the War was just as Wrong.
True to an extent, France certainly seems to have aasured Russia of its support over the Serbian crisis. However they did warn Austria-Hungary that Russia had friends and there would be complications. Despite this Austro-Hungary, with German support, went ahead with the ultimatum to Serbia. So if Austro-Hungary was warned that war with Serbia could be dangerous why did they go ahead? Could it be argued that Russia/France were trying to prevent trouble and that Austro/Hungary was to blame for going ahead with German support? More important surely it was the insane German war plan which meant they had to attack France even though there quarrel was with Russia (if anyone). Comment?
There is something clearly wrong in your text.
'The French President and Premier were in Russia when Austria Hungary sent their Ultimatum to Serbia. Russia and France clearly discussed their COMBINED Response.'
Oh it sounds serious, unfortunately it did not happen as every sources points out that the ultimatum of Austria-Hungary to Serbia was deliberately delivered after the departure of the French delegation from Russia on 23 July and in this case they could have not discussed a so-called combined response. (by the way you could drop the capslocks, it doesn't add any kind of gravitas).
The French were seething for revenge for 1870 so yes, they most definitely were partially to blame for the outbreak of war.
@@Conn30Mtenor Germany Invaded France "Again", - It doesn't matter that Russia had invaded Germany.The fact is that Germany's response should have been to defend against the Russians, not attack the French. In this situation Germany is to blame "Clearly".. Speculation about how angry a the French people were about the Franco-Prussian war, is irrelevant, just as speculation about what France would have done, if Germany had defended against Russia and not attacked France. It didn't happen, so we cannot make assumptions about it.
We doo not live in a "Minority report" world
The end of the war was confusing, The US never ratified the peace it supported. Unfortunately the lecture expressed a lot of opinion but not a lot of explanation.
How much...
The USA never got invaded.
The USA never joined the League of Nations either. Ironic, as this was President Woodrow Wilson's 'Big idea'
Excellent lecture both in content and delivery, A very, very minor issue: Megali Idea (the Greek expansionist/nationalistic drive) was actually based on the Byzantine Empire and the idea that we should bring all lands with a majority (or, really, just lots and lots) of Greeks under the control of Greece. Doesn't make it any less harebrained in all aspects really but eh, I'm a bit pendantic.
A tour de force.
Sorry but she is completly wrong about Germany not paying reperations for WW2 and about Germany just cancleing reperations for WW1 and then never picking them up again. The last bit of the accumulated interest from WW1 was payed of in 2010 by the German goverment. Admittetly by then it went through several frameworks so one could argue it wasn't technically the reperation payments anymore. But it was the same debt that just was transfered to different holders and in to different finance tools.
As an avid misogynist, I have to admit this was one of the most insightful analysis I’ve heard that appeared devoid of bias. A joy and left me feeling more informed by its end.
It was all Churxchill's fault. Just kidding. No I'm not.
What to do!? Go after the habsburgs, maybe my lady! And the russian...🤗
France today...
Please consider the realm of ethical midwifery. It is central to solving the present entrenched evil. It is not addressed. Non. Not at all.
Great talk, but the asinine question about Trump and Boris Johnson being anything akin to the 1930s shows that people today have almost no understanding of what ACTUAL fascism is.
Johnson is one thing, but Trump (and his followers) are far, far too close to ACTUAL fascism for comfort. The hatred of democracy and the white supremacy are terrifying.
You're right, they are more like corrupt mobsters.
Oh Trump is absolutely a would be fascist
I was born too late and missed all the excitement.
Фашизм, национализм или иная идеология - это всего лишь политическая обёртка, за которой стоит банальная экономика. Ведь любому государству нужны природные ресурсы и ископаемые что в земле. Благодаря которым производятся материальные блага. Ну уж так распорядилась судьба, что в большинстве государств мира природных ресурсов недостаточно для подъёма экономики, или сущий мизер. Вот из-за этого и начинаются войны. И чтобы оправдать грабёж соседнего государства, то под это придумывается идеология, и в добавок разные причины. Вот у России много природных ресурсов, и поэтому Запад желает захватить мою страну и беззастенчиво её разворовывать. Так что идеология - это не более чем прикрытие по захвату природных ресурсов.
Russia mobilized first, Germany could have paid the reparations but the blame and the shame should have been shared. BTW, Clemenceau was indeed out of his mind, he included non- military fees like the widows' pensions in his demands, everyone else thought he was going nuts, Loyd George included but the biggest mistake were the territory cuts without taking into account that ethnic groups were cut from their mainland, that will always create deep tensions, hatred and even genocides and anyway, that's exactly what Hitler did first, recuperate the territories he saw as having been stolen at Versailles, remember that the Germans weren't given the opportunity to negotiate the terms of the treaty, it was forced on them since the food blockade would only be lifted after they had admitted defeat, 700,000 Germans starved to death in the meantime, that was despicable.
Germany just never accepted their loss and had its territory largely untouched by the conflicts ! They had to pay at some point... They were the major protagonist of the war, Russia mobilised against Austria Hungary then Germany declared war on Russia and France. Germany was rightly seen as the plague of Europe at this point, especially in France, because north east of France has been, first stolen by them, then devastated during the war at the cost of the highest dead toll (in %), so Clemenceau was always going to be harsh, remember the scale of it was unprecedented. Remember as well the Germans plan of wanting to "bleed France white" in Verdun, the shame must definitely go on Germany because they instigated the worst of the war (gas, poison, war of attrition,...)
To me it came down to Germany not willing to take the L properly as it hurted its politics ego too much, then led to something even worst.
@@Alex-df1zf That's a good point. Also, it wasn't Clemenceau who added the widows' pensions, it was Lloyd George. Lloyd George had promised the British public huge amounts of money in reparations, that is what helped him win the election. Initially, the reparations were only going to include the war damage which would mean that France would get the greatest share since most of the war was fought on French soil, and so South African Prime Minister Jan Smuts had the idea to include widows' pensions in order to give Britain a better shape when it came to reparations.
@@Alex-df1zf Good stuff 👍Looking back at history its easy to point fingers at people who seemed crazy but if u look at it on a broader scale and from everyone's perspective it starts to make sense.
How about the IRS paying me reparations for the rest of my life, to the tune of $100,000/per year, adjusted for inflation? Oh! Will they ever admit their guilt against humanity? I do not think so.
What did the IRS do to you? I admit it is an unconstitutional organization. That the NWO and the Rothschild banking interest set up to rob the American people since it’s founding in 1913.
11:29 " They should have known there was a young German corporal Adolf Hitler" He was an Austrian corporal? A major figure in world history and you can't get that fact correct? Makes me question the veracity of facts provided on less significant figures and events.
He was a German corporal though. Just because he's Austrian doesn't change the fact he was a corporal in the German army, hence a German corporal.
He was born in Austria but served in the German army.
Hitler was a Gefreiter, this is the equivalent rank to a lance corporal. A corporal would be an Unteroffizier in the Wehrmacht.
German coporal is incorrect, Gefreiter is lance corporal. AH is a born Austrian, evaded conscription into the Austro-Hungarian Army by fleeing to Bavaria. As a war volunteer he served in the Royal Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment No. 16
I think the treaty went to hell (as it were) because of the pacifist movement that arose after the war, and the Great Depression.
She has an obvious bias: she strongly believes that “left wing revolutions” would have been the worst possible outcome in the years following WW1, which is questionable
They will always be the worst outcome no matter what time in history or the future for that matter
As a Hungarian, I want all territories that belonged to Hungary/Hungarian Kingdom before WW1 immediately returned to my people! Not to the current government of what is called Hungary!!