It's beyond me that how you find so many stories which are so different in their subjects. You are a REAL and UNBIASED Historian. Thank you for these videos Sir!
@@jds6014 Journalism is a muddy job. Most people are biased. Even if some are not, they are forced into submission by politicians and other powerful people. Sadly journaliats cannot have their paramilitary orgs like SA to protect them from political opression.
@@SpaceTravel1776 I do read a lot of books. Still I find Mark's videos well made and well researched. It's true that there are other channels too, but except some, I find them a bit biased towards the Allies. Mark never shrugs in telling about the warcrimes committed by the Allies, including British ones, when he himself is British. That is praiseworthy. The world always lectures Germans on 'accepting their faults' but never talk about Operation Paperclip and so on.
Interesting video. My dad was a US Air Force pilot, commissioned in 1951 who flew combat in the Korean War in the Republic F-84. After the war he was stationed at Luke AFB Arizona as an instructor when in 1957 the first class of new Luftwaffe pilots arrived to train in the F-84. That first group included Rall, Obleser, and Hartmann. My dad was one of Rall’s instructor pilots. My dad always thought it amusing that he, a young USAF captain, was instructing someone who had hundreds of aerial victories.
@@rogersmith7396 the Luftwaffe wasn't going to get first-line aircraft, absent the HUGE push to justify and pay for the 104. Honestly, they'd have done better to transition to the F100; enough similarities to the 84 that transition would have been straightforward, but a major leap in capability.
@@rogersmith7396 You have to start somewhere. I don't think they all had jet time. Even if they did have 262 time, the 84 was a much different aircraft with different flight characteristics. So you start at the bottom and work up. Prevents a lot of needless deaths and destroyed aircraft.
I met Hartmann at the Alton (Illinois) Air Show in 1971 or so. My mother was with me, and we hoped to get an autograph. The fellow sponsoring Hartmann told us they were leaving and no more autographs. Mom was a warbride from Vienna, Austria said something to him in German and he (Hartmann) took mom's progam and signed it....."Horrido" Erich Hartmann. Later on I got his book by that same name. Quite an interesting day.
@@worldwar2historyandgear970 I have a "Moon Shot" graphic novel signed by Charles Conrad while we were at the 1994 San Diego Comic-Con. He was a US Navy test pilot who retired as captain. His booth was not at all crowded. People there were more interested in getting pictures with girls dressed as "Sailor Moon" than meeting the third man to walk on the Moon! I wish I had questions for him then! I walked past Chuck Yeager at a Hawthorne California airshow way back when. The airport was originally for Northrop, but is now for SpaceX. (I was a little surprised how small he is.) With the WW2 German military theme, in the 80's I met a u-boat navigator named Rudy at the Hollywood Bowl who was invited by a neighbor since he lived in our neighborhood. I didn't have any questions for him. What kind of questions could a young man ask him on a touchy subject? I think his u-boat was destroyed while he was on leave.
I’ve mentioned this on “Greg’s Airplane & Automobiles” channel: Gerhard Barkhorn (301 victories) was learning to fly the new RAF Kestrel (later the Harrier), and while attempting to land it, crashed. Allegedly while walking away from the wreckage, he said “That’s 302 Allied planes destroyed!”👍😉
I imagine that scene from the Simpsons where the Soviet Union came back instead it's the 3rd Reich. "That's 102 Allied Planes Destroyed!" American goes "i though the Reich broke up?" The German laughs evily "That's what we wanted you to think!" Then Panzers roll out of Volkswagen Factories and Nazi flags pop out of nowhere.
Hartmann wasn't retired because he had fallen out with his former comrades, he was retired because he opposed the acquisition of the starfighter, calling it a flying coffin, criticizing both its design and construction quite publicly, and after proven right, became a political problem for both the German and US airforce leadership / politicians. Despite this, the Luftwaffe still honors him, the only German 24/7 readiness squadron still carries the name of his squadron and even honors him on special occasions by flying his WW2 camo scheme.
yes that was a detail dr felton left out not sure why. but I gather he "fell out" because he didn't want to take Lockheed's payoff like the others did.
Partially true but not the complete story. He was "retired" because he did not agree with his superiors about how the German air force should be run. Yes, he opposed the buying of the Startighter but there were many other notable German pilots that also disagreed with the purchase and never got retired. He made it public that the important decision makers of the Luftwaffe at the time was generals with very little real world experience in the Air and he insisted on black tulips markings on their wings. True that it was ultimately adopted by the Luftwaffe but at the time it was a no-no. He also went against his superiors so many times and disagreed on so many issues that his superiors regarded him as a "trouble-maker" and would have retired him early but his reputation actually kept him in the Luftwaffe. But they never promoted him beyond his rank and he ultimately quit the air force in rage. The Starfighter acquisition was just one in a long line of "troubles" he caused his superiors. Most Luftwaffe pilots opposed the Starfighter. They thought it was too advanced for a nation that had it's airforce disbanded for a decade and thought they needed more training (not just the Pilots who will be flying it but also the enlisted men who will maintain it) but other more politically astute officers (Gunther Rall being one of them) thought they needed to buy it because there was no other choice but to keep up with the new emerging technology, as well as buying American. You have to remember the Starfighter suffered alot of crashes and mishaps mostly due to the lack of training (which was Hartmann worry from the beginning). It was only later when Rall went to Japan to learn how they also acquired the Starfighter but suffered no losses that the accident rate went down drastically. Of course by then the Starfighter acquired the nickname "Widow maker" and there was nothing anyone or anything could do to change that.
@@KausnHavok I'm sorry, but that not really true. Even Japan lost plenty of Starfighters without hostile interaction. The less than safe operating conditions let to the Starfighter quickly being retired by the US for peacetime service (it was reactivated during the Vietnam War). The reason it was such a successful export was because of all the bribes Lockheed paid to politician around the world. The whole affair is thought to have played a major role in president Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex. Anyway, here are some numbers, the percentages (attrition rates) of aircraft lost (out of all Starfighters operated) without hostile interaction by some of the primary operators (this does not only include crashes but other failures as well): Germany: 32% Belgium: 41% Italy: 37% Canada: 46% Denmark: 24% Japan: 15% Norway: 14% Spain: 0% (but they only operated 21 Starfighters) In the US the Starfighter was the aircraft with the highest failure rate per 100.000 flight hours in service, leading to its retirement to reserve aircraft. As you can see, it was not only a German problem. Case in point, Lockheed was responsible for the training regimes for the pilots, engineers and mechanics as well. Japan and Norway kept its failure rates down by increasing training, maintenance and reducing flight hours, massively reducing effectiveness, not something you want to really do with your defense investment.
@@ariantes221 Yeah, I thought it was well-known that he opposed buying the Starfighter. Being a jet ace, he was more than qualified to make that judgement, even barring the horrific safety record.
I would love to see a similar video about the Kriegsmarine if possible. Thank you for your hard work, research and being an unbiased source, it is very much appreciated.
Admiral Otto Ciliax is one of the most interesting post war. In 1949 he was invited, together with Berhard von Lossberg (planning of Barbarossa ) and 3 other german officers, by Norway and Sweden to Oslo to develop an integrated defence plan for Scandinavia against a Soviet invation. The plan, except the use of nuclear weapons, was to a large degree implented. Any trace of this workgroup has been eliminated in Norway to prevent negative reactions in the population so soon after the war. The Swedes, however, have the records in their National Archives.
@@petershen6924 And the former captain of the _Atlantis._ I have a copy of his co-authored book _Under Ten Flags_ which is a fascinating "read" - especially how _Atlantis_ captured the _SS Automedon_ and its trove of secret documents. The latter were sent to Japan directly, and influenced the Japanese military's decision to enter the war.
My father was stationed at Bitburg in the late 70's thru early 80's. They used to bring war aces around regularly to the O'club to talk/meet the F15 guys. My father, being a Colonel, would sneak me into the club and I got to meet Steinhoff, Rall, Barkhorn, Robin Olds, Yeager, and Stanford-Tuck among many others. Galland was never invited, and Hartmann did not have a good rep with the jocks at Bitburg. But Steinhoff, Rall, Yeager, and Olds just walked on water at the Club. They were legend. I can still remember when Steinhoff joked about how he had a face that nobody would ever forget - it brought the house down.
@@christiansimon3749 I am curious as to why the world's highest scoring ace and a man who flew more fighter missions than anyone else in the war and gave 10 and a half years of his life in a Soviet gulag for his country had a bad rep among a bunch of untested, spoiled American jet jocks? Maybe you could explain your comment and tell us why he was so unpopular? Maybe because he had honor and integrity and wouldn't sign off on a plane that was being sold to the West German Air Force simply because a lot of scum bags were going to make a lot of money?
I had the pleasure of meeting Günther Bahr in my apprenticeship. Not as high profile as the people in this video, but still a knight's cross bearer and night flying ace. Interesting guy. I was at his home many times, helping him with his PC along other things. He connected with other Luftwaffe comrades all over the world at a time where quite some people half his age had trouble using the internet. ^^ Strong character and sharp mind still at high age. His voice was quite raspy from inhaling corrosive fumes when his plane got hit once. I still have it im my head 20 years later. ^^
@@ReaperCH90 Thanks! I was not super happy at the time because he could be very moody on bad days (I think he was in pain often). And I found it kind of distasteful that he would keep a propeller blade with his shot down planes engraved into next to his TV. ^^ But in retrospective I am thankful that I had a chance to not only talk to him, but to other WWII survivors including an SS officer and a KZ survivor in private. That opportunity is mostly gone for the young people now.
10:49: The man next to General Limberg, the late former Chancellor Helmut Schmidt, was himself a member of the Luftwaffe during the war as Oberleutnant (which would be a Flying Officer in the RAF and a First Lieutenant in the USAF). But he was not a combat pilot. He was even a reserve officer in the Bundeswehr as a Hauptmann (RAF: Flight Lieutenant, USAF: Captain) for a short time (which I didn't know myself until now). He became Defence Minister during the short first term of Chancellor Willy Brandt from 1969-1972.
The main point where Hartmann fell out with his comrades was over the F-104. He was very vocal that the pilots weren't ready for an airplane like that, and the command didn't like it. There was a joke around Germany during that time that went: How does a German civilian get their own F-104? Buy some real estate and wait!
They were extreemly clean had a very high wing loading, and a high stall speed. The Germans wanted ground attack. They were a very poor and unsafe plane in that role but they were world class as an interceptor.
@@ourshelties7649 Maybe the disastrous handling of the Luftwaffe by the bigwigs in WWII left a strong impression on him and he felt the need to be outspoken. The relative freedom of speech in West Germany may have encouraged him. It would be interesting to know more.
...we had an F-104 go down in an area close to my base at Illesheim ca 1973 or so - they got a QRF from the Combat Support Company of 4/35 Armor (my unit) go go out and secure the area - I went into my office - I was the battalion S-2 clerk - and 'borrowed' the then new (to us) starlight scope from the 'confidential' safe and along with my buddy from S-2 drove off post in my VW bug to try and find the site - with no idea where it was - returning to post was the hardest & scariest part - luckily I wasn't stopped by the MPs and managed to get the scope back where it belonged - undetected...
I met Steinhof in the late 80's at BWI airport when I flew for Business Express Airlines. He traveled under a different name, and was somewhat standoffish. However, I knew it was him from seeing his pictures in aviation publications. We talked briefly, and he told me about learning to fly in a HE,-46. I didn't ask for an autograph.
Germans in general can seem a little standoff-ish at first. My dad’s parents were from Germany and my friends thought they seemed very aloof and strict at first. I think in general, Germans are just a bit more guarded at first, but open up after and become very loyal and fun people.
My grandfather was in the same Geschwader (Jagdgeschwader 52) as Hartmann - in a different squadron, though. He joined the new Luftwaffe as well after being released by the russians after 5 years of being a POW.
The irony that of all the Bundeswehr branches, the Luftwaffe ended up reclaiming so many senior personnel from the Wehrmacht. You would think that with over a decade of major technological change and the physical demands of service that it would have been harder to get airmen back up to date than soldiers or sailors, but it just goes to show that flyboys love their flying.
@@rogersmith7396 Yes, I read a biography by a Soviet WW2 and Korea ace. They flew with North Korean markings but it was pretty obvious what was going on.
@@momotheelder7124 My dad was in an F 86 squadron in Korea. They had many WWII aces as well as did the Russians. Our pilots always knew when they were facing Russians. They were good. The North Korean pilots were barely trained and incompetent.
Rudel was consulted by the Us airforce for the development of the A10 warthog tank destroyer. Destroying tanks was a speciality of Rudel on the Eastern front.
Rudel was an avid Nazi, but his exploits are legendary. Remarkable footage of him exists, he was using HVAP 37mms to engage lvats, KVs and ships, impressive stuff really.
I'd always wondered if that was a true story until I ran into someone in 2019 who had worked on the A-10 program back then and he confirmed Rudel was indeed consulted on the project. His German-speaking wife also confirmed this and that she'd talked to him several times in German. They both said he was a very interesting person
@@t2av159That's how it's used today, mostly because the contemporary adversaries of the US have no tanks but in the first Gulf war these things knocked out scores of Iraqi armour. It was originally designed to counter mass Soviet tank attacks.
Mark ‘the history teacher I wish I had’ Felton. Fortunately my dad was a little of a history buff so I had a good foundation on topics ranging from Rome to the 3rd reich with a focus on the military but in school I only had one history (10th grade history teacher, Mr. Cavander, if for some reason you see this just know you are still the MVP) teach that was able to make the topics we were learning interesting and engaging. For the rest of my time in school o never had that experience again. If you’re a history teacher watching this, take notes and learn from Dr.Felton. If my previous statement wasn’t convincing enough then consider this; this content is presented so well my child under 10 gets excited when a new video is uploaded on this channel and he listens to the war stories channel when he goes to sleep. Yea, I know part of it is my son wanting to emulate his old man but the fact my son chooses to watch/listen to this content on his own, at his age, speaks volumes to how well this content is produced and presented.
Mr Felton, as a amateur ww2 historian from Holland, i really salute you for your accurate and honost real wide knowledge of this era!!! Please continue!!!
Dr. FELTON- When I was posted to Lahr Germany during the Cold War I actually met an ex-Stuka pilot who was still serving now in the West German Air Force, I believe he retired shortly afterwards. He told us he served only on the eastern front, joining the war late in 1944 barely out of school. He said they would fly SEVERAL sorties every day!!
True. Most Luftwaffe bases on the Eastern Front were within 25 miles of the lines, making multiple sorties a day possible, if not absolutely necessary for ground troop support.
@@ourshelties7649 Can't find it just now, but, there's a very highly detailed book on the combined attack of an American unit named "The Railsplitters" & their neighbouring British unit "The Wessex" men & their "minutiae" daily actions whilst attempting to engineer & cross the River Wesel (Germany), in April 1945 In it, they clearly and categorically state that they (collectively), actually WERE attacked beside the river, by successive attacks of Junkers Ju.87 Stukas - (The 'D' = Jumo engined later-war variants) Some WERE shot down, whilst some made it back - hundreds saw it happen, too Many expressed their complete & utter shock, seeing the cranked-wing, fixed u/c Ju.87's Remember - This is//was "APRIL 1945" & on the British & American sectors I'll believe THEIR highly-detailed eyewitness accounts, over YOUR (untrained) postwar armchair-warrior "guesstimates" & (clearly wrong &) erroneous assumptions anyday !!!!! (Although in your defence, I can see as to "why" you wrongly assumed that, by "generalising") .
Dr. Felton, your excellence in showing the greyer parts of history never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for showing us that history is not as black and white as it is generally presented.
I used to work with a guy who was in the Marines during the Korean war. He flew in the 2nd seat with a former Luftwaffe pilot. He said that the ex-German was the best pilot he ever flew with. I wonder how many former Luftwaffe pilots ended up in the US armed forces?
I never met the man, but I heard about him when I was in the Marines. Not a pilot, but a former Luftwaffe bomber radio operator who emigrated to the US after the war and joined the US Marine Corps around 1950. He was stationed in Beaufort SC with an air control squadron as a warrant officer and everyone called him "Herman the German," and all said he was the nicest man you'd ever want to meet. He even wore his Iron Cross 1st Class and other Luftwaffe decorations on his Dress Blues! Swastikas removed of course. No one took offense either, they thought it was cool!
Some Wehrmacht soldiers were in the US Army circa Korean War. I remember my dad mentioning that although he didn't have one on one contact with them. He had some oddballs in his unit. Like the WW2 private in his company. The guy got promoted a whole bunch of times but he'd get drunk and get busted down to E2 or E3 and start all over. Then there was the Chinese guy who played checkers by himself. He'd make a move then switch chairs to make a counter move then switch chairs to make a move. He'd do this for hours. Dad thought there was something wrong in the head with that guy.
In 1973 we had an NCO in our unit who had been a private in the Soviet army during WW2, afterwards managed to emigrate to the US and joined the US Army. Just a little different.
I am always so impressed with the research and accompanying footage Dr.Felton brings together. This is such great history and so glad to see it get 'on the record'.
My Uncle flew the 104 for the German Air Force, being called back in 1956 from his WW2 service. My Grandfather flew the Albatross in WW1 and was best friends with Hans Baur, Herr Hitler’s personal Pilot. My Grandfather was also friends with the Fuhrer’s private photographer, am fortunate of the unique pictures that I have. Please remember that these military service people served their country, hence it remains difficult to talk about as it was for my Uncle & Grandfather. My Grandmother lost her Son (my other Uncle) during the Fall Blau offensive in 1942, something my mother never got over of, esp. after surviving all the Allied bombing in their hometown of Nurnberg. God Bless you all historians.
Thank you, Professor Felton, for another very interesting story about these former German Aces and what had happened to them after the war. Your stories are packed with great information supported but videos/photos I have never seen.
My father, the sole survivor of his RCAF Lancaster Bomber, after it was shot down over the Ruhr Valley, told me about attending the Wartime Aircrew Reunion in Manitoba. Adolph Galland showed up as a special speaker, and received wild applause when he walked out on the stage before the thousands of RCAF/RAF WWll veterans and said “Wow, now this is what I’d call air superiority!”. I asked him if there were any hard feelings about him having shot down allied aircrew and he said it was all very positive - they were all people who were just doing a tough job.
Admittedly, Galland had the personality to pull this off, with the looks and the sunny disposition of a Spanish Caballero. He was actually born in my area. In the mid-late 80s he would occasionally show up at "Haus Galland", a restaurant less than 10 miles from my current house that at least than was run by his wider family. I never met him, though. Edit: If your father was shot down over the Ruhr, my father might have been on the receiving end of that raid, growing up in that area and beeing around 11 years old at the time. War sucks. Let's just enjoy the fact that both of them survived. Greetings from the Ruhr!
9:52 quick correction - the man on the left is Gerd Barkhorn, the second highest scoring pilot with 301 victories, not Walter Krupinski (who was an exceptional pilot in his own right).
In addition to being a exceptional pilot, Eric Hartmann appeared to be a man of exceptional character. One has to admire his refusal to aid the Soviets, and as a result of that refusal, spend 10 years in captivity. Good video Mark - please keep up the great work - us history nerds depend on you!
I read a great story about Hartmann. He used to speak to school groups about his experiences, and when one student asked him if he hated the Russians for the way they treated him he said no. Then he added "Don't hate. Please don't hate. Hatred destroyed my country."
Yes, Hartmann was a man of character. At the end of the war, instead of flying to safety, he decided to stay as head of his base personal and ground crew, leading to his capture by the Russians.
He was a man of character, and one of the main opponents of the 104, not mincing words on its shortcomings. Reportedly, that was one of the reasons he never made much of a career in the post war Luftwaffe.
@@HeadPack The choice of the F-104 seems like an odd one to begin with. The 104 strikes me as too much airplane for the somewhat restricted airspace of West Germany. USAF pilots called the F-104 "The missile with a man in it."
Hartmann was forced to retire from the West German luftwaffe because he refused to go along with the deployment of the Starfighter in his squadron over concerns of the danger to his pilots.
It's quite interesting to note that Kurt Tank, the man responsible for the development of planes like the Focke Wulf fw 190, the FW Condor, later moved to India and was responsible for the design and development of the Hindustan Marut, India's first fighter bomber, while working at the HAL in the 60s. Tank had first moved to Argentina before moving to India. Dr. Felton, could you please make a video about what happened to the top German engineers and scientists after the second world war? Von Braun is the most famous of them but I'm sure there are more individuals like Kurt Tank. Also, thanks for all the videos :)
Barkhorn supposedly did a test flight in the early hawker kestrel. As he was attempting a hover about four meters off the ground, one of the thrust nozzles jammed and the aircraft pancaked onto the runway, spreading expensive parts on the ground and jamming the canopy. As the mechanics popped it open to free him, he apparently remarked: "Ach. I have now destroyed three hundred and TWO allied aircraft."
Tom, just to add..... He didn't just make one test flight, he was based there. I live down the road from THAT actual air-base (the supposed story of which you mention) TWELVE pilots were assigned to test the P.1127, Four Yanks, Four Brits, Two Canucks, Two Germans The airbase in question is/was RAF West Raynham in North//North-West Norfolk (England) It was an active base, until 1994, when, sadly, like the B.47 base down the road, they closed them** **(the so-called 'collapse' of the Soviet Union's "Cold War") There's a "Fish n' Chip" van//vendor that goes there each Friday night - (i.e, tonight !) Made me laugh to think it's the one & the exact same place..... Lastly, there IS film, of Gerhard Barkhorn receiving his "RAF Wings" being pinned on his RAF uniform It took place at Stanmore, Middlesex, in 1956 - razor sharp footage too, of him at RAF H.Q saluting Also great film of him getting into & piloting a 56.Sqdn RAF Hawker Hunter, "Mustard" at that time ! .
Great work as always. It would be interesting to know about German WWII veterans who ended up serving post-war in Allied service. I remember a German WWII vet commenting on an article about the Hurtgen Forest in a military history magazine years ago and then signing off his comments as a Major in the US Army Reserves (Retired).
I can add one I remember. I was attached to the 766 MI Det in the occupied city of West Berlin from 1981 to 1984. One of the senior investigators was a former Luftwaffe fighter pilot. His name escapes me right now. He was pretty old by then but still attended the Luftwaffe Reunions when they occurred. He even took one of the junior US investigators to one of them. Regards
Lots of German WWII ex soldiers in French Army units fighting in Vietnam. According to "Le Monde" 1,600 of the 3,500 airborne troops dropped into Dien Bien Phu to defend it have been ex German military.
I spent a bit of time with Gunther Rall in his twilight years 2004-07, a wonderful man. He told me about sorties he flew from Taganrog over the Kuban, which is topical for today, the Starfighter programme and the encounter that cost him his thumb. I think he met the American pilot who shot him down (he was downed several times!).
My father, US Air Force 1954-80 worked for Barkhorn at Ramstein 4ATAF, mid seventies. I still have some signed 8x10 pics from him. Dashing and Teutonic, as described by my father. The story my father tell is that he was across the table from British officers during a meeting. Words were spoken, Barkhorn grabbed the British officers tie, and that probably was his exit from the military.
A little side note: It is often forgotten, also here, (at 01:54), that the German Reich/Germany (before 1937) consisted of more than just the territory of the four zones of occupation, which corresponds to the present-day territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. Under Stalin's pressure, the Potsdam Conference, placed all of the areas east of the Oder-Neisse line, under the jurisdiction of other countries, especially Poland, which he "shifted" to the west. For example, West and parts of East Prussia and Silesia were placed under Polish administration. The borders were finally regulated after reunification in 1990. Under the common roof of a Europe of the peoples.
The smaller countries formerly occupied by the Third Reich also got a piece of Germany to occupy. Belgium got a thin slice between the British and American zones, roughly a line from Aachen to Kassel.
@@flitsertheo There is funny fact about the german-belgian border. Germany has an enclave within belgium because ther is a thin stripe of border which is part of belgium. The stripe is c. 12km long and only 4m wide. The reason for this strange border lies in the end of WW1 and the treaty of versailles. On that stripe there was an important railway line which became part of belgium. The rails are history but the border remains still today.
After Hartmann was released from Russian captivity he realized that after 2 1/2 years of combat service in the Luftwaffe and 10 years in Russian camps it was too late to become a doctor like his father had been. Apart from his piloting skills he had no further education. It was 1955 when West Germany started to rearm. When asked to join the new Luftwaffe, he saw no other option as to accept.
@@colinheaton2679 You are very lucky to have known these two remarkable people. I not only revere Erich, even more because of what he had to endure after the war. Usch is my ideal woman because of the hell she went through being separated from her husband all those years, their baby son dying (whom he never saw). I wonder if I could have endured that? I am going to purchase your book ASAP. Thank you for the heads-up!
Your channel is my favourite for these mini documentaries. I love how you cover events/stories/people we don’t get the opportunity to learn about in school
Johannes "Macky" Steinhoff book "last chance" is a very good read and Gunther Rall book "Gunther Rall: Luftwaffe Ace & NATO General" Great video as usual. Thanks
Although I never met any veterans from the Luftwaffe, Oklahoma is full of German Army veterans. Mainly because of the former POW camp in Camp Gruber, Oklahoma. Many of them became the best ranchers and farmers in Oklahoma and I have been proud to call a few of them friends.
Born and raised okie, I never knew this! I would love to learn more. I recently heard there was a POW camp in chickasha OK, oddly enough not more than 20 minutes from my home. It’s now the chickisha fairgrounds, but I haven’t been able to find any more information on it than just a couple tidbits.
I am sorry for you that you did not discover Virginia Bader's (Sir Douglas Bader and she were cousins) world of aviation art shows and symposiums. She used to have her gallery in Alexandria, Virginia, and had her symposiums and art shows at nearby hotels and Air & Space. I missed a lot of them myself, having only discovered this world in 1990 when she had her Battle of Britain symposium Many Luftwaffe aces (and those from other nations, also) were guests of honor, and I had the great honor and pleasure of meeting some of them--Rall, Hrabak, almost met Steinhoff, and General Galland was there a couple of times, but I was so in awe of him that all I could do was worship him from afar. Though Virginia Bader still has a gallery out in California (she has a web site), I am afraid those days are over because i don't think there is anybody left.
On 8 May 1945, Luftwaffe command ordered Erich Hartmann and another "high-value" aviator in his group to fly deeply into US-occupied territory and surrender upon landing. In order to remain with civilians who looked to his squadron for protection during the events unfolding in Czech-territory, Hartmann and Hermann Graf disobeyed this order and trekked towards the West, eventually surrendering to a US unit, who had possibly advanced beyond the lines partitioning the occupied lands into US and Soviet zones. Before retreating, they turned the Luftwaffe unit and the civilians accompanying them over to Soviet forces, who were moving into the area. The experience of the civilians who fell into Soviet hands, as witnessed by Hartmann, is another horrible chapter in the record on the Soviet advance into Germany or partially ethnically-German lands.
Both of the flags being shown for the two German states (at 2:12 and 2:17) are unfortunately wrong. The national flag of the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) does not contain the federal shield with the eagle. Shield and eagle on the flag are reserved for the government and federal agencies. The national flag which was introduced with the German constitution in 1949 only consists of the three horizontal stripes of black, red and gold. The flag shown and meant to show the flag of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) actually represents the flag of the National People’s Army of the GDR. The national flag did not contain the additional two olive branches that surround the crest of hammer, compass and the ring of rye.
I served in the US Air Force 50-55 years ago (as a non-pilot). I was stationed in Alaska with a T/SGT who came there from Williams AFB in Arizona. He told me all sorts of horrible tales about Luftwaffe pilots who were sent there to train with West Germany's F-104 Star Fighters, including a number killed in accidents in Arizona. It was only then that I began to understand what a dangerous aircraft for a pilot it really was. It was no wonder it was called 'The Widow Maker', many times, your first mistake was also your last.
My Grandfather was offered to join the new Bundeswehr / Luftwaffe about 1956/57. As he entered during the Weimar era then joined the Luftwaffe in 1936 Stuka force and eventually onto I/ St.G 77, finished the war as an Oberfeldwebel. His record was clean and vested by the nearest US Army that sponsored and hosted his old Stuka unit after 1945 Paul declined the offer, after what he witnessed at Pitomnik Airfield at Stalingrad. He did not want to go through with it again.
Reminds me of the Japanese ace Saburo Sakai. When the Japanese Self-Defense Force was building it's air force Sakai was invited to join. He turned the offer down cold, he wanted nothing more to do with military aviation having become a confirmed pacifist. He wouldn't even kill mosquitos. He DID say the only time he'd climb into a fighter cockpit again was if "The Soviet slave-masters ever reach out and try to take Japan!"
A member of my flying club was one of the first new jet pilots in luftwaffe. He flew the F84 at age 20. After crashing in a G91 he had to learn to speak, walk, write etc again, but managed to have a second career as a dendist. He told that one time he flew his F84 to Hartmanns base and made a pretty bad landing. He was ordered to the tower, where Hartmann (jokingly) kicked his bottom, saying this should give him a better feel for flying and landing a fighter 😉😉
In that case they would´ve been mercenaries.... is not the case. They were loyal to West Germany, not to the US, another former enemy, as the russians...
I suppose they much preferred flying to maintain peace over engaging in another war. However, WW2 aces both on the Soviet and US side flew against each other.
The Soviets had a habit of flying combat for other countries. When Egypt was losing so many MiGs to Israeli pilots, the Soviet "advisors" mocked the Egyptian pilots for their inept ability. So the Egyptians told the Russians to go ahead and prove they were better. The Soviets didn't fare better than the Egyptians. Believe this was during what's called The War of Attrition, prior to the Yom Kippur attack in October 1973. Supposedly this bad experience against the IAF is what prompted the Soviet/Egyptian commands to place extra heavy emphasis on ground based AA missiles and AAA.
My uncle was a pilot for the Luftwaffe during the war. He flew mostly transport planes. When the war ended and the new Luftwaffe was born he tried to regain his wings. He was denied due to his indoctrination. He died a very bitter man.
Disgusting how German WW2 veterans were treated after the war, men that fought for their country deserved respect. My grandfather was a German paratrooper in Italy, he married an Italian woman and moved there, I met him when I was very young and he was elderly, I wish I had know what a treasure he was. I joined the Army at 17 and earned my Airborne wings(89 jumps at the time of retirement) and honored him with a diving eagle tattoo on my right shoulder.
They were made by Hugo Boss using slave labour. Funfact Hugo Boss still makes coats that have a Red Patch on the right Arm (though it Shows the Hugo Logo and not the swastika)
Yup, all around the world, military costumes serve an important PR function. It helps those who can't think for themselves believe in what they're being told.
My father, born 1925, finished pilot training in February 1945, but due to fuel and equipment shortage his entire class was sent to Berlin to defend the city against Russian forces. He was part of the 5th Jaeger Div, he saw Goering inspecting the front lines in April 1945. At night time he could hear the Russians talk, they were that close to each other. He was extremely lucky to survive,......war is horrible. What struck me the most was that he didn't even have a German rife, he had an old French carabiner, equipment was that sparse. After the war he did not re-enlist into the Bundeswehr, he neither kept his pilots licence, but he was always active in the Luftwaffe Pilots association, I spent many glorious days attending Luftwaffe "open days" in 70/80s where my father was invited. All of the old boys were treated with respect, the younger BW jet pilots were keen to listen to any story the old boys had to tell.
This is hard to believe but it's true, the German army in WW2 never had enough of their own small arms to go around. While the front-line troops were typically well-equipped the support and occupation forces were frequently equipped with captured weapons. It's no surprise your father was given a French rifle to fight with.
I believe you. At one point they had more non German tanks and vehicles than German ones. They also relied heavily on horses and mules for transporting equipment.
@@bugler75 Right. I've heard it said that when Operation Barbarossa began the motorized portion of the German invasion looked like "A military museum on wheels." The Germans scrounged usable tanks (mostly Czech) and trucks from all over the occupied countries.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 I know that they reused French tanks, which actually were very good, to occupy Europe whilst they sent their more modern PzIIIs and IVs to North Africa. They relied heavily on their horses right through the war. I had a book, long since lost which I really regret which showed the statistical comparison between the Axis and Allies and the Germans were actually outnumbered in armour about 4 to 1. Because vyhwir armoir was manufactured to such a high standard it was easier to repair their armour whereas the Allies, after the Americans entered the war, could just replace a damaged tank. I really wish I could remember the name of the book.
The Starfighter procurement scandal is interesting. The Netherlands had a similar scandal known as "Lockheed schandaal" with Prince Bernhard involved in it. I didn't know it was just one of a series of bribery scandals in several countries.
@@WELLBRAN For a short time in the 1930's he was a member, yes. When he left Germany to marry princess Juliana, he gave Hitler a weak, soft hand when he came by to say goodbye. Hitler did not think much of him. Later on, Bernhard became Inspector General, until he fell from grace after accepting gifts from Lockheed.
It would good to hear a Mark Felton story about the "Starfighter scandal". Wasn't the Starfighter just an interceptor & not a true fighter? I wonder if that was the problem with the Starfighter...?
@@morgan97475 The German Starfighter had to carry a lot of extra equipment. The extra weight was too much and in that configuration, it was a widow maker.
The man on the left, at 9:48 named Kuprinski, is actually ww2 ace Walter Krupinski, credited with 197 victories and a member of the famous JV44 jet squadron. He also became a General in the post-war Luftwaffe and consequently also had to retire due to a scandal.
The man on the left is not Walter Krupinski. He is Gerhard Barkhorn(1911-1983), second most succesful German fighter pilot during WW2 era. Also high ranking member of the Bundesluftwaffe. So the photo at 9:48 includes top-3 German aces of WW2 (Barkhorn, Hartmann and Rall).
@@jyrkilindholm2691 Yeah, you're right. I wasn't paying attention to the face too much, just the misspelled name.. But they do look somewhat alike, don't they?
If I remember correctly the main problem with the F-104-G (German version) in the Luftwaffe was that it was not used in its main role as an air superiority fighter, but that it was decided to modify it to be a multirole fighter / bomber etc., a role for which it was not designed. Also during this modification there were technical issues. Among the pilots who crashed and died was the Son of the German Defense Minister Kai Uwe von Hassel (Himself an officer of the Wehrmachts Abwehr Department in WW2) , who was overseeing the introduction of the jets.
There were many reasons from all sides. Politicians made it to a bomber with low range so they had to put reserve tanks under those little wings. The german air force had no skilled maintenance crew and the air force personell was a little uncontrolled in the beginnning. This plane had a lot of teething in the beginning not to mention this ejection seat ejecting downward when this plane had a lot of problems (wings, engines) on take off.
@@rigasarzemnieks4230 wrong the 104C was the USAF fighterbomber version of the F-104 A and the USAF used the F-104C in the fighter Bomber role for a short time during the Vietnam war, all Planes painted in SEA Camo.
@@indahooddererste I agree but! The F-104G used at first the Lockheed C-2 upward firing Seat later replaced by Martin Bakers GQ-7, the USAF fighterbomber version F-104C used an upwardfiring seat too, only the early (interceptor) A Version used a downwardfiring seat. About Droptanks, the 104 G could carry up to four in the nuclear strike role two under the Wings and two Wingtiptanks plus the Nuclear payload on the centerline Pylon, its called the four Tanker configuration in service.
Another video in this vein could be done about German ex-Kriegsmarine officers like Admiral Paul Hartwig who was promoted to Commander of the NATO fleet in 1972. Hartwig had a killing spree in the Gulf of St. Lawrence where he sank eight merchant ships and HMCS Charlottetown in Canadian territorial waters while in command of U 517.
I had the great privilege of interviewing dozens of these pilots, and met Kammhuber once for a few hours in his home. Erich Hartmann took me there, same with Obleser.
According to Franz Stigler, of the “Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler Incident,” many of the fighter pilots had a disdain for the Party, didn’t join and avoided those who did. Makes sense it was easy to clear so many fighter jockeys for the new Luftwaffe
Stigler actually said that's WHY he joined the Luftwaffe. Unlike the Wehrmacht (German Army), the Luftwaffe did not have to take a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler. As a matter of fact, by the late months of the war he and a few pilots hated the Nazi government so much that they even joked in private about them all drowning at sea, allowing Germany to survive. It sounded like they were some decent people stuck in an absolutely impossible situation. Sad how they will always have a tarnished image because of the Nazi monsters, Wehrmacht war criminals and the bomb raids on civilian towns.
@@elviadarkgrape2859 I concur you would think the only pro Hitler Germans were Eva and his dogs. Reminds me of the American soldier who said he had fought half way across Germany before he met his first Nazi.
My father was a Navigator of the Swedish Saab Lansen in the late 50's to mid 60's. When Sweden sold the Lansen to Austria, the swedes taught many of the former Luftwaffe pilots to fly the plane.
In the mid '90s I was the guest of a particular Jagdbombergeschwader - I won't identify the unit in full or the base - and I was quite taken aback at the amount of Nazi era memorabilia relating to the unit on display in the officers mess. Given the unit did have a long & proud history this could be understood, but it was still a surprise just how openly this was all displayed as a matter of normality. I understand that eventually the German Government instructed the Luftwaffe to ensure that no units openly displayed anything of this kind anywhere on any base....
@@tpxchallenger - Yes, all that you mention plus from memory a few uniforms. I also remember that the photos stood out, with several showing Goring visiting the unit.
@@davidb2206 - I agree. The Officers I was with were in no way promoting Nazism, but proud of the historical element of their unit. I would assume that somewhere along the line people visited military installations and complained about what they saw, or narrow thinking politicians got involved....
@@RA76951 ...especially narrow thinking Politicans!! We Germans, now " a Volk von Gutmenschentum" who are biased on their History. Yes, History can be "bad", but if you erase it, it will happen again!
@@Wuestenkarsten - today's 'cancel culture' I guess. But misguided perception can be almost as bad - because I have an interest in military aviation, I have even come across people who think I must have right wing sympathies!
I've always loved this era of history from learning in school, I love how easy it is to show my friends your videos and spark the endless love for history, seriously Mark, thank you
Great episode, and I never knew that the WW2 medals became de-Nazified and wearable (which is pretty cool). A ton of detail in here that I did not know.
Former german soldiers had nearly no possibility to wear their medals, because there was ( and still is) no veteran culture in Germany. The outcry of leftwingers would have been heared in USA.
At a German base we visited while on exercise in the 70s, there was a poster with a photo of a Starfighter, the line beneath translated to; " Would you like to own a Starfighter? Buy a farm and wait."
I had the honor to meet Mr. Günther Rall in Finland in 2003. Professional soldier and true gentleman. He was greeted with applause and told the audience that in Germany it was still difficult to speak about war, even 60- years after it.
More and more, Mark is providing that vital link between the past and the present. It is never just history, as accurate as it might be. I believe we are all enlightened by his coverage of more recent and even present conflicts. Chaotic as conflicts can be, he skillfully infuses them with understanding and insight. A huge contrast to the numbing bombardment we face from both main stream and social media. Thank you for this especially good one.
I remember my dad's youngest brother telling about all those F-104 crashes. A couple of times he had to help clean up some of the mess. There was a reason it wasn't in US inventory all that long.
The problem was, the plane is a high altitufe, high speed daytime interceptor and pretty good at that. It just so happens that the Luftwaffe actually needed a multi-role plane that was low-altitude strike capable... And so this bribery scandal came to be. The main protagonist was Franz-Jose Strauß, secretary of defense at the time. Because he was a powerful figure, he escaped it pretty much unscathed. Too bad, so many pilots did not, because they were given a plane for a different role that was extremely difficult to fly in terrain following missions...
@@Ganiscol That is the usual take on the problem. The Canadians did very well in strike/ground attack competitions with it and felt its small size and speed made it a difficult target for air defenses. On the other hand, it had a small payload, no more than a Corsair and half of an A-1. By waiting a few years, everyone could have had F-4s which were more expensive (but not prohibitively so) and were very much more capable aircraft.
The B-47 Stratojet was another horrifyingly dangerous craft. I think 10% ever made were involved in accidents or crashes (including 2-3 notorious ones in Britain where the RAF had to frantically help our staffers extinguish the fireballs and contain damage). Thank goodness the far safer B-52 came along soon after.
Well done mark keep finding these stories and posting them,,i thought i was well educated on these subjects but i keep learning more every dad and im 60 years old so keep them coming thanks fella
Good on Hartmann for giving the reds the middle finger and ready to ride it out to hell if he had to,I didn't know that but I was aware of his accomplishments and knew he was one of the best to ever do it but no idea he had the most "kills" or "victories", but yeah, good job Mr Hartmann and good video Mr Felton 👍
I find it unconscionable that the Brits and Americans turned so many over to the Soviets. Surely they at least had some inkling of the mistreatment and horrors that the Soviets put both German POWs and their own misplaced people through.
In the book I read about him he really insulted the Russians another time. The Russian's were interrogating him and claimed he was the top scoring German ace with 352 kills. But Hartmann countered that Hans-Joachim Marseille had shot down over 150 British aircraft, and they considered one British flown aircraft equal to three Russian. What an insult to those Russians, lol.
I remember asking my 10th Grade German teacher, "Herr Müller - the West German Air Force used the F-104, didn't they?" He answered me, bright-eyed, "Yes! And they made special modifications on them so they fell out of the sky!!!"
It's beyond me that how you find so many stories which are so different in their subjects. You are a REAL and UNBIASED Historian. Thank you for these videos Sir!
What real journalists used to be like.
@@jds6014 Journalism is a muddy job. Most people are biased. Even if some are not, they are forced into submission by politicians and other powerful people. Sadly journaliats cannot have their paramilitary orgs like SA to protect them from political opression.
@@SpaceTravel1776 thanks buzz kill
@@SpaceTravel1776 I do read a lot of books. Still I find Mark's videos well made and well researched. It's true that there are other channels too, but except some, I find them a bit biased towards the Allies. Mark never shrugs in telling about the warcrimes committed by the Allies, including British ones, when he himself is British. That is praiseworthy. The world always lectures Germans on 'accepting their faults' but never talk about Operation Paperclip and so on.
he is bias though, his deep seated resentment and hatred of anything the Nazis done is clearly evident.
Interesting video. My dad was a US Air Force pilot, commissioned in 1951 who flew combat in the Korean War in the Republic F-84. After the war he was stationed at Luke AFB Arizona as an instructor when in 1957 the first class of new Luftwaffe pilots arrived to train in the F-84. That first group included Rall, Obleser, and Hartmann. My dad was one of Rall’s instructor pilots. My dad always thought it amusing that he, a young USAF captain, was instructing someone who had hundreds of aerial victories.
Must have felt like teaching Tiger Woods how to play golf, even though your dad must have been a seasoned combat pilot at that point.
Time in type counts.
The 84 was obsolete. Should have put them in 86s, 102s, 106s or 104s if available.
@@rogersmith7396 the Luftwaffe wasn't going to get first-line aircraft, absent the HUGE push to justify and pay for the 104. Honestly, they'd have done better to transition to the F100; enough similarities to the 84 that transition would have been straightforward, but a major leap in capability.
@@rogersmith7396 You have to start somewhere. I don't think they all had jet time. Even if they did have 262 time, the 84 was a much different aircraft with different flight characteristics. So you start at the bottom and work up. Prevents a lot of needless deaths and destroyed aircraft.
I met Hartmann at the Alton (Illinois) Air Show in 1971 or so. My mother was with me, and we hoped to get an autograph. The fellow sponsoring Hartmann told us they were leaving and no more autographs. Mom was a warbride from Vienna, Austria said something to him in German and he (Hartmann) took mom's progam and signed it....."Horrido" Erich Hartmann. Later on I got his book by that same name. Quite an interesting day.
I wonder what was said?
@@worldwar2historyandgear970 I have a signed airshow program from Colonel Bud Anderson. Met him when I was 13. I'll never forget it.
Wow thats a story! Love it.
About 1982,I also got Hartman's autograph. My son has the print.
@@worldwar2historyandgear970 I have a "Moon Shot" graphic novel signed by Charles Conrad while we were at the 1994 San Diego Comic-Con. He was a US Navy test pilot who retired as captain. His booth was not at all crowded. People there were more interested in getting pictures with girls dressed as "Sailor Moon" than meeting the third man to walk on the Moon! I wish I had questions for him then!
I walked past Chuck Yeager at a Hawthorne California airshow way back when. The airport was originally for Northrop, but is now for SpaceX. (I was a little surprised how small he is.)
With the WW2 German military theme, in the 80's I met a u-boat navigator named Rudy at the Hollywood Bowl who was invited by a neighbor since he lived in our neighborhood. I didn't have any questions for him. What kind of questions could a young man ask him on a touchy subject? I think his u-boat was destroyed while he was on leave.
I’ve mentioned this on “Greg’s Airplane & Automobiles” channel:
Gerhard Barkhorn (301 victories) was learning to fly the new RAF Kestrel (later the Harrier), and while attempting to land it, crashed. Allegedly while walking away from the wreckage, he said “That’s 302 Allied planes destroyed!”👍😉
this is gold XD
Greg's channel is awesome. His take on the accuracy of Luftwaffe victory claims was very informative! 👍
🤣😂🤣
Aplomb in the face of disaster... Those high-scoring aces had ice water in their veins.
I imagine that scene from the Simpsons where the Soviet Union came back instead it's the 3rd Reich.
"That's 102 Allied Planes Destroyed!" American goes "i though the Reich broke up?" The German laughs evily "That's what we wanted you to think!" Then Panzers roll out of Volkswagen Factories and Nazi flags pop out of nowhere.
Hartmann wasn't retired because he had fallen out with his former comrades, he was retired because he opposed the acquisition of the starfighter, calling it a flying coffin, criticizing both its design and construction quite publicly, and after proven right, became a political problem for both the German and US airforce leadership / politicians. Despite this, the Luftwaffe still honors him, the only German 24/7 readiness squadron still carries the name of his squadron and even honors him on special occasions by flying his WW2 camo scheme.
yes that was a detail dr felton left out not sure why. but I gather he "fell out" because he didn't want to take Lockheed's payoff like the others did.
Partially true but not the complete story.
He was "retired" because he did not agree with his superiors about how the German air force should be run.
Yes, he opposed the buying of the Startighter but there were many other notable German pilots that also disagreed with the purchase and never got retired.
He made it public that the important decision makers of the Luftwaffe at the time was generals with very little real world experience in the Air and he insisted on black tulips markings on their wings. True that it was ultimately adopted by the Luftwaffe but at the time it was a no-no.
He also went against his superiors so many times and disagreed on so many issues that his superiors regarded him as a "trouble-maker" and would have retired him early but his reputation actually kept him in the Luftwaffe.
But they never promoted him beyond his rank and he ultimately quit the air force in rage.
The Starfighter acquisition was just one in a long line of "troubles" he caused his superiors.
Most Luftwaffe pilots opposed the Starfighter. They thought it was too advanced for a nation that had it's airforce disbanded for a decade and thought they needed more training (not just the Pilots who will be flying it but also the enlisted men who will maintain it) but other more politically astute officers (Gunther Rall being one of them) thought they needed to buy it because there was no other choice but to keep up with the new emerging technology, as well as buying American.
You have to remember the Starfighter suffered alot of crashes and mishaps mostly due to the lack of training (which was Hartmann worry from the beginning). It was only later when Rall went to Japan to learn how they also acquired the Starfighter but suffered no losses that the accident rate went down drastically.
Of course by then the Starfighter acquired the nickname "Widow maker" and there was nothing anyone or anything could do to change that.
@@KausnHavok I'm sorry, but that not really true. Even Japan lost plenty of Starfighters without hostile interaction. The less than safe operating conditions let to the Starfighter quickly being retired by the US for peacetime service (it was reactivated during the Vietnam War). The reason it was such a successful export was because of all the bribes Lockheed paid to politician around the world. The whole affair is thought to have played a major role in president Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex.
Anyway, here are some numbers, the percentages (attrition rates) of aircraft lost (out of all Starfighters operated) without hostile interaction by some of the primary operators (this does not only include crashes but other failures as well):
Germany: 32%
Belgium: 41%
Italy: 37%
Canada: 46%
Denmark: 24%
Japan: 15%
Norway: 14%
Spain: 0% (but they only operated 21 Starfighters)
In the US the Starfighter was the aircraft with the highest failure rate per 100.000 flight hours in service, leading to its retirement to reserve aircraft.
As you can see, it was not only a German problem. Case in point, Lockheed was responsible for the training regimes for the pilots, engineers and mechanics as well. Japan and Norway kept its failure rates down by increasing training, maintenance and reducing flight hours, massively reducing effectiveness, not something you want to really do with your defense investment.
@@ariantes221 Yeah, I thought it was well-known that he opposed buying the Starfighter. Being a jet ace, he was more than qualified to make that judgement, even barring the horrific safety record.
104 was a fast flying coffin !
I would love to see a similar video about the Kriegsmarine if possible.
Thank you for your hard work, research and being an unbiased source, it is very much appreciated.
Great suggestion. That would be great to see.
Admiral Otto Ciliax is one of the most interesting post war. In 1949 he was invited, together with Berhard von Lossberg (planning of Barbarossa ) and 3 other german officers, by Norway and Sweden to Oslo to develop an integrated defence plan for Scandinavia against a Soviet invation.
The plan, except the use of nuclear weapons, was to a large degree implented.
Any trace of this workgroup has been eliminated in Norway to prevent negative reactions in the population so soon after the war. The Swedes, however, have the records in their National Archives.
@@tebo2770 great to „sea“?
I am thinking of Vice Admiral Rogge, who was a decorated commander and also of Jewish heritage.
@@petershen6924 And the former captain of the _Atlantis._ I have a copy of his co-authored book _Under Ten Flags_ which is a fascinating "read" - especially how _Atlantis_ captured the _SS Automedon_ and its trove of secret documents. The latter were sent to Japan directly, and influenced the Japanese military's decision to enter the war.
My father was stationed at Bitburg in the late 70's thru early 80's. They used to bring war aces around regularly to the O'club to talk/meet the F15 guys. My father, being a Colonel, would sneak me into the club and I got to meet Steinhoff, Rall, Barkhorn, Robin Olds, Yeager, and Stanford-Tuck among many others. Galland was never invited, and Hartmann did not have a good rep with the jocks at Bitburg. But Steinhoff, Rall, Yeager, and Olds just walked on water at the Club. They were legend. I can still remember when Steinhoff joked about how he had a face that nobody would ever forget - it brought the house down.
The dude owes me 20 bucks.
You were down south, next to Luxembourg 🇱🇺 and France. I was in Germany from 1997-2001. Thank you for your service
@@christiansimon3749 I am curious as to why the world's highest scoring ace and a man who flew more fighter missions than anyone else in the war and gave 10 and a half years of his life in a Soviet gulag for his country had a bad rep among a bunch of untested, spoiled American jet jocks? Maybe you could explain your comment and tell us why he was so unpopular? Maybe because he had honor and integrity and wouldn't sign off on a plane that was being sold to the West German Air Force simply because a lot of scum bags were going to make a lot of money?
My comment to Christian Simon was meant for Andreina Rangel.
I had the pleasure of meeting Günther Bahr in my apprenticeship.
Not as high profile as the people in this video, but still a knight's cross bearer and night flying ace. Interesting guy. I was at his home many times, helping him with his PC along other things. He connected with other Luftwaffe comrades all over the world at a time where quite some people half his age had trouble using the internet. ^^ Strong character and sharp mind still at high age.
His voice was quite raspy from inhaling corrosive fumes when his plane got hit once. I still have it im my head 20 years later. ^^
That is a very cool story.
@@ReaperCH90 Thanks! I was not super happy at the time because he could be very moody on bad days (I think he was in pain often). And I found it kind of distasteful that he would keep a propeller blade with his shot down planes engraved into next to his TV. ^^ But in retrospective I am thankful that I had a chance to not only talk to him, but to other WWII survivors including an SS officer and a KZ survivor in private. That opportunity is mostly gone for the young people now.
@@hmpeter very nice story and yes i would say the chances of speaking to someone who was there and played a role is most certainly gone
Bahr, the next nazi... as always.
10:49: The man next to General Limberg, the late former Chancellor Helmut Schmidt, was himself a member of the Luftwaffe during the war as Oberleutnant (which would be a Flying Officer in the RAF and a First Lieutenant in the USAF). But he was not a combat pilot. He was even a reserve officer in the Bundeswehr as a Hauptmann (RAF: Flight Lieutenant, USAF: Captain) for a short time (which I didn't know myself until now). He became Defence Minister during the short first term of Chancellor Willy Brandt from 1969-1972.
And it was always really easy to spot him, since you only have to look for the thick cloud of smoke ascending into the sky
Schmidt was a flight defense Company
Officer in eastern front
The main point where Hartmann fell out with his comrades was over the F-104. He was very vocal that the pilots weren't ready for an airplane like that, and the command didn't like it. There was a joke around Germany during that time that went: How does a German civilian get their own F-104? Buy some real estate and wait!
They were extreemly clean had a very high wing loading, and a high stall speed. The Germans wanted ground attack. They were a very poor and unsafe plane in that role but they were world class as an interceptor.
Hartmann didn't play well with higher command throughout his military career.
@@ourshelties7649 Maybe the disastrous handling of the Luftwaffe by the bigwigs in WWII left a strong impression on him and he felt the need to be outspoken. The relative freedom of speech in West Germany may have encouraged him. It would be interesting to know more.
...we had an F-104 go down in an area close to my base at Illesheim ca 1973 or so - they got a QRF from the Combat Support Company of 4/35 Armor (my unit) go go out and secure the area - I went into my office - I was the battalion S-2 clerk - and 'borrowed' the then new (to us) starlight scope from the 'confidential' safe and along with my buddy from S-2 drove off post in my VW bug to try and find the site - with no idea where it was - returning to post was the hardest & scariest part - luckily I wasn't stopped by the MPs and managed to get the scope back where it belonged - undetected...
@@cuauhtemoc8350 I'm sure he was just as outspoken to all his superiors. 🙂
This is history told the way I like it. Thanks Dr Felton.
I met Steinhof in the late 80's at BWI airport when I flew for Business Express Airlines. He traveled under a different name, and was somewhat standoffish. However, I knew it was him from seeing his pictures in aviation publications. We talked briefly, and he told me about learning to fly in a HE,-46. I didn't ask for an autograph.
Sometimes the memories are more important than the mementos.
That is true. I do have Hartman's and Rall's autograph on print displays, although I never met them.
@@shawnr771 Indeed, focus on the moment
I have a ww2 history book with his signature that he gifted to my grandfather.
Germans in general can seem a little standoff-ish at first. My dad’s parents were from Germany and my friends thought they seemed very aloof and strict at first. I think in general, Germans are just a bit more guarded at first, but open up after and become very loyal and fun people.
My grandfather was in the same Geschwader (Jagdgeschwader 52) as Hartmann - in a different squadron, though. He joined the new Luftwaffe as well after being released by the russians after 5 years of being a POW.
The irony that of all the Bundeswehr branches, the Luftwaffe ended up reclaiming so many senior personnel from the Wehrmacht. You would think that with over a decade of major technological change and the physical demands of service that it would have been harder to get airmen back up to date than soldiers or sailors, but it just goes to show that flyboys love their flying.
The big US jet aces were all WWII aces. Probably the Russians too.
@@rogersmith7396 Yes, I read a biography by a Soviet WW2 and Korea ace. They flew with North Korean markings but it was pretty obvious what was going on.
@@momotheelder7124 My dad was in an F 86 squadron in Korea. They had many WWII aces as well as did the Russians. Our pilots always knew when they were facing Russians. They were good. The North Korean pilots were barely trained and incompetent.
Rudel was consulted by the Us airforce for the development of the A10 warthog tank destroyer. Destroying tanks was a speciality of Rudel on the Eastern front.
Rudel was an avid Nazi, but his exploits are legendary. Remarkable footage of him exists, he was using HVAP 37mms to engage lvats, KVs and ships, impressive stuff really.
I'd always wondered if that was a true story until I ran into someone in 2019 who had worked on the A-10 program back then and he confirmed Rudel was indeed consulted on the project. His German-speaking wife also confirmed this and that she'd talked to him several times in German. They both said he was a very interesting person
A10 is a ground striker; not specifically tank killing
@@t2av159 When armed with AGM-65 Maverick missiles and depleted uranium 30MM rounds, the A-10 is a superb tank killing machine.
@@t2av159That's how it's used today, mostly because the contemporary adversaries of the US have no tanks but in the first Gulf war these things knocked out scores of Iraqi armour. It was originally designed to counter mass Soviet tank attacks.
Mark, are you going to work on Hitler’s admirals served in West German Navy next?
Yes please
and why was Erich Topp (3 stripes) not called to account after WW2. After all he sunk the "Reuben James"
Mark ‘the history teacher I wish I had’ Felton. Fortunately my dad was a little of a history buff so I had a good foundation on topics ranging from Rome to the 3rd reich with a focus on the military but in school I only had one history (10th grade history teacher, Mr. Cavander, if for some reason you see this just know you are still the MVP) teach that was able to make the topics we were learning interesting and engaging. For the rest of my time in school o never had that experience again.
If you’re a history teacher watching this, take notes and learn from Dr.Felton. If my previous statement wasn’t convincing enough then consider this; this content is presented so well my child under 10 gets excited when a new video is uploaded on this channel and he listens to the war stories channel when he goes to sleep. Yea, I know part of it is my son wanting to emulate his old man but the fact my son chooses to watch/listen to this content on his own, at his age, speaks volumes to how well this content is produced and presented.
Your son knows quality when he hears it!...you've brought him up well.
5:12
Seeing an Iron Cross on a DC-3 or C-47 is one of the most beautiful things you can see!
Mr Felton, as a amateur ww2 historian from Holland, i really salute you for your accurate and honost real wide knowledge of this era!!!
Please continue!!!
Dr. FELTON- When I was posted to Lahr Germany during the Cold War I actually met an ex-Stuka pilot who was still serving now in the West German Air Force, I believe he retired shortly afterwards. He told us he served only on the eastern front, joining the war late in 1944 barely out of school. He said they would fly SEVERAL sorties every day!!
True. Most Luftwaffe bases on the Eastern Front were within 25 miles of the lines, making multiple sorties a day possible, if not absolutely necessary for ground troop support.
He’s right several sorties were absolutely usual.
That late in the war, Stukas could only operate on the eastern front.
Must have been short sorties, they had no fuel.
@@ourshelties7649 Can't find it just now, but, there's a very highly detailed book on the combined attack of an American unit named "The Railsplitters" & their neighbouring British unit "The Wessex" men & their "minutiae" daily actions whilst attempting to engineer & cross the River Wesel (Germany), in April 1945
In it, they clearly and categorically state that they (collectively), actually WERE attacked beside the river, by successive attacks of Junkers Ju.87 Stukas - (The 'D' = Jumo engined later-war variants)
Some WERE shot down, whilst some made it back - hundreds saw it happen, too
Many expressed their complete & utter shock, seeing the cranked-wing, fixed u/c Ju.87's
Remember - This is//was "APRIL 1945" & on the British & American sectors
I'll believe THEIR highly-detailed eyewitness accounts, over YOUR (untrained) postwar armchair-warrior "guesstimates" & (clearly wrong &) erroneous assumptions anyday !!!!!
(Although in your defence, I can see as to "why" you wrongly assumed that, by "generalising")
.
Dr. Felton, your excellence in showing the greyer parts of history never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for showing us that history is not as black and white as it is generally presented.
Yet another superb video by Dr. Felton.
Your work more valuable than you can imagine to many of us!
I used to work with a guy who was in the Marines during the Korean war. He flew in the 2nd seat with a former Luftwaffe pilot. He said that the ex-German was the best pilot he ever flew with.
I wonder how many former Luftwaffe pilots ended up in the US armed forces?
Really good question. I'd watch that video
I never met the man, but I heard about him when I was in the Marines. Not a pilot, but a former Luftwaffe bomber radio operator who emigrated to the US after the war and joined the US Marine Corps around 1950. He was stationed in Beaufort SC with an air control squadron as a warrant officer and everyone called him "Herman the German," and all said he was the nicest man you'd ever want to meet. He even wore his Iron Cross 1st Class and other Luftwaffe decorations on his Dress Blues! Swastikas removed of course. No one took offense either, they thought it was cool!
Some Wehrmacht soldiers were in the US Army circa Korean War. I remember my dad mentioning that although he didn't have one on one contact with them.
He had some oddballs in his unit. Like the WW2 private in his company. The guy got promoted a whole bunch of times but he'd get drunk and get busted down to E2 or E3 and start all over.
Then there was the Chinese guy who played checkers by himself. He'd make a move then switch chairs to make a counter move then switch chairs to make a move. He'd do this for hours. Dad thought there was something wrong in the head with that guy.
In 1973 we had an NCO in our unit who had been a private in the Soviet army during WW2, afterwards managed to emigrate to the US and joined the US Army. Just a little different.
@@LuvBorderCollies ptsd is insidious
I am always so impressed with the research and accompanying footage Dr.Felton brings together. This is such great history and so glad to see it get 'on the record'.
Can say the same with the video about the king tiger in the river video
My Uncle flew the 104 for the German Air Force, being called back in 1956 from his WW2 service. My Grandfather flew the Albatross in WW1 and was best friends with Hans Baur, Herr Hitler’s personal Pilot. My Grandfather was also friends with the Fuhrer’s private photographer, am fortunate of the unique pictures that I have. Please remember that these military service people served their country, hence it remains difficult to talk about as it was for my Uncle & Grandfather. My Grandmother lost her Son (my other Uncle) during the Fall Blau offensive in 1942, something my mother never got over of, esp. after surviving all the Allied bombing in their hometown of Nurnberg. God Bless you all historians.
Now THAT is a real family history!
My hat is off to your relatives who fought so valiantly against Germany's enemies.
sad to think but my grandfather flew lead A in multiple missions over Nuremberg in the b17.
Thank you, Professor Felton, for another very interesting story about these former German Aces and what had happened to them after the war. Your stories are packed with great information supported but videos/photos I have never seen.
My father, the sole survivor of his RCAF Lancaster Bomber, after it was shot down over the Ruhr Valley, told me about attending the Wartime Aircrew Reunion in Manitoba. Adolph Galland showed up as a special speaker, and received wild applause when he walked out on the stage before the thousands of RCAF/RAF WWll veterans and said “Wow, now this is what I’d call air superiority!”. I asked him if there were any hard feelings about him having shot down allied aircrew and he said it was all very positive - they were all people who were just doing a tough job.
Admittedly, Galland had the personality to pull this off, with the looks and the sunny disposition of a Spanish Caballero.
He was actually born in my area. In the mid-late 80s he would occasionally show up at "Haus Galland", a restaurant less than 10 miles from my current house that at least than was run by his wider family. I never met him, though.
Edit: If your father was shot down over the Ruhr, my father might have been on the receiving end of that raid, growing up in that area and beeing around 11 years old at the time. War sucks. Let's just enjoy the fact that both of them survived. Greetings from the Ruhr!
9:52 quick correction - the man on the left is Gerd Barkhorn, the second highest scoring pilot with 301 victories, not Walter Krupinski (who was an exceptional pilot in his own right).
In addition to being a exceptional pilot, Eric Hartmann appeared to be a man of exceptional character. One has to admire his refusal to aid the Soviets, and as a result of that refusal, spend 10 years in captivity.
Good video Mark - please keep up the great work - us history nerds depend on you!
I read a great story about Hartmann. He used to speak to school groups about his experiences, and when one student asked him if he hated the Russians for the way they treated him he said no. Then he added "Don't hate. Please don't hate. Hatred destroyed my country."
Yes, Hartmann was a man of character. At the end of the war, instead of flying to safety, he decided to stay as head of his base personal and ground crew, leading to his capture by the Russians.
He was a man of character, and one of the main opponents of the 104, not mincing words on its shortcomings. Reportedly, that was one of the reasons he never made much of a career in the post war Luftwaffe.
He was sentenced to 25 years hard labour. Fortunately, the last German POWs were repatriated in 1956 following Stalin's death.
@@HeadPack The choice of the F-104 seems like an odd one to begin with. The 104 strikes me as too much airplane for the somewhat restricted airspace of West Germany.
USAF pilots called the F-104 "The missile with a man in it."
Hartmann was forced to retire from the West German luftwaffe because he refused to go along with the deployment of the Starfighter in his squadron over concerns of the danger to his pilots.
that´s only one part of his story, the other is he did not sign to the political party the others belong too.... he did not get promotion any further.
It's quite interesting to note that Kurt Tank, the man responsible for the development of planes like the Focke Wulf fw 190, the FW Condor, later moved to India and was responsible for the design and development of the Hindustan Marut, India's first fighter bomber, while working at the HAL in the 60s. Tank had first moved to Argentina before moving to India.
Dr. Felton, could you please make a video about what happened to the top German engineers and scientists after the second world war? Von Braun is the most famous of them but I'm sure there are more individuals like Kurt Tank. Also, thanks for all the videos :)
German engineers? I don't think they ever came to much did they? One or two might have ended up with NASA, getting nan on the moon ....
My evening just got a whole lot better.
Thank you once again Dr. Felton
Barkhorn supposedly did a test flight in the early hawker kestrel. As he was attempting a hover about four meters off the ground, one of the thrust nozzles jammed and the aircraft pancaked onto the runway, spreading expensive parts on the ground and jamming the canopy. As the mechanics popped it open to free him, he apparently remarked: "Ach. I have now destroyed three hundred and TWO allied aircraft."
.. you think he said 'ach', or you just made that up.??
Probably shouldn't laugh at this, but couldn't help having a chuckle. 😀
@@FalkeEins My wife is German. It's possible.
Tom, just to add..... He didn't just make one test flight, he was based there.
I live down the road from THAT actual air-base (the supposed story of which you mention)
TWELVE pilots were assigned to test the P.1127, Four Yanks, Four Brits, Two Canucks, Two Germans
The airbase in question is/was RAF West Raynham in North//North-West Norfolk (England)
It was an active base, until 1994, when, sadly, like the B.47 base down the road, they closed them**
**(the so-called 'collapse' of the Soviet Union's "Cold War")
There's a "Fish n' Chip" van//vendor that goes there each Friday night - (i.e, tonight !)
Made me laugh to think it's the one & the exact same place.....
Lastly, there IS film, of Gerhard Barkhorn receiving his "RAF Wings" being pinned on his RAF uniform
It took place at Stanmore, Middlesex, in 1956 - razor sharp footage too, of him at RAF H.Q saluting
Also great film of him getting into & piloting a 56.Sqdn RAF Hawker Hunter, "Mustard" at that time !
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Great work as always. It would be interesting to know about German WWII veterans who ended up serving post-war in Allied service. I remember a German WWII vet commenting on an article about the Hurtgen Forest in a military history magazine years ago and then signing off his comments as a Major in the US Army Reserves (Retired).
I can add one I remember. I was attached to the 766 MI Det in the occupied city of West Berlin from 1981 to 1984. One of the senior investigators was a former Luftwaffe fighter pilot. His name escapes me right now. He was pretty old by then but still attended the Luftwaffe Reunions when they occurred. He even took one of the junior US investigators to one of them.
Regards
Lots of German WWII ex soldiers in French Army units fighting in Vietnam. According to "Le Monde" 1,600 of the 3,500 airborne troops dropped into Dien Bien Phu to defend it have been ex German military.
This never occurred to me, what a fascinating programme, thank you.
I was in the USAF assigned to GAF Buechel for 18 months, from late '74 to early '76. This was a great piece of history I knew only snippets of.
Can't wait to see this. At work. Will enjoy this today. Thanks Dr. Felton
I spent a bit of time with Gunther Rall in his twilight years 2004-07, a wonderful man. He told me about sorties he flew from Taganrog over the Kuban, which is topical for today, the Starfighter programme and the encounter that cost him his thumb. I think he met the American pilot who shot him down (he was downed several times!).
My father, US Air Force 1954-80 worked for Barkhorn at Ramstein 4ATAF, mid seventies. I still have some signed 8x10 pics from him. Dashing and Teutonic, as described by my father. The story my father tell is that he was across the table from British officers during a meeting. Words were spoken, Barkhorn grabbed the British officers tie, and that probably was his exit from the military.
A little side note: It is often forgotten, also here, (at 01:54), that the German Reich/Germany (before 1937) consisted of more than just the territory of the four zones of occupation, which corresponds to the present-day territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. Under Stalin's pressure, the Potsdam Conference, placed all of the areas east of the Oder-Neisse line, under the jurisdiction of other countries, especially Poland, which he "shifted" to the west. For example, West and parts of East Prussia and Silesia were placed under Polish administration. The borders were finally regulated after reunification in 1990. Under the common roof of a Europe of the peoples.
The smaller countries formerly occupied by the Third Reich also got a piece of Germany to occupy. Belgium got a thin slice between the British and American zones, roughly a line from Aachen to Kassel.
@@flitsertheo True!
@@flitsertheo There is funny fact about the german-belgian border. Germany has an enclave within belgium because ther is a thin stripe of border which is part of belgium. The stripe is c. 12km long and only 4m wide. The reason for this strange border lies in the end of WW1 and the treaty of versailles. On that stripe there was an important railway line which became part of belgium. The rails are history but the border remains still today.
After Hartmann was released from Russian captivity he realized that after 2 1/2 years of combat service in the Luftwaffe and 10 years in Russian camps it was too late to become a doctor like his father had been. Apart from his piloting skills he had no further education. It was 1955 when West Germany started to rearm. When asked to join the new Luftwaffe, he saw no other option as to accept.
I knew Hartmann and his wife Ursula quite well. His interview is in my book, The German Aces Speak II.
@@colinheaton2679 You are very lucky to have known these two remarkable people. I not only revere Erich, even more because of what he had to endure after the war. Usch is my ideal woman because of the hell she went through being separated from her husband all those years, their baby son dying (whom he never saw). I wonder if I could have endured that? I am going to purchase your book ASAP. Thank you for the heads-up!
@@colinheaton2679 Do you have any contact information for his daughter?
That is true, thanks for posting
@@dorothyburry42 Sorry I do not, I never met her.
Your channel is my favourite for these mini documentaries. I love how you cover events/stories/people we don’t get the opportunity to learn about in school
Johannes "Macky" Steinhoff book "last chance" is a very good read and Gunther Rall book "Gunther Rall: Luftwaffe Ace & NATO General" Great video as usual. Thanks
Although I never met any veterans from the Luftwaffe, Oklahoma is full of German Army veterans. Mainly because of the former POW camp in Camp Gruber, Oklahoma. Many of them became the best ranchers and farmers in Oklahoma and I have been proud to call a few of them friends.
Born and raised okie, I never knew this! I would love to learn more. I recently heard there was a POW camp in chickasha OK, oddly enough not more than 20 minutes from my home. It’s now the chickisha fairgrounds, but I haven’t been able to find any more information on it than just a couple tidbits.
I am sorry for you that you did not discover Virginia Bader's (Sir Douglas Bader and she were cousins) world of aviation art shows and symposiums. She used to have her gallery in Alexandria, Virginia, and had her symposiums and art shows at nearby hotels and Air & Space. I missed a lot of them myself, having only discovered this world in 1990 when she had her Battle of Britain symposium Many Luftwaffe aces (and those from other nations, also) were guests of honor, and I had the great honor and pleasure of meeting some of them--Rall, Hrabak, almost met Steinhoff, and General Galland was there a couple of times, but I was so in awe of him that all I could do was worship him from afar. Though Virginia Bader still has a gallery out in California (she has a web site), I am afraid those days are over because i don't think there is anybody left.
We are good immigrants 😅🇩🇪
Mark, thanks so much for all you do for those of us who love WWII history. I watch your videos nightly. (and daily) Your research is unmatched.
On 8 May 1945, Luftwaffe command ordered Erich Hartmann and another "high-value" aviator in his group to fly deeply into US-occupied territory and surrender upon landing. In order to remain with
civilians who looked to his squadron for protection during the events unfolding in Czech-territory, Hartmann and Hermann Graf disobeyed this order and trekked towards the West, eventually surrendering to a US unit, who had possibly advanced beyond the lines partitioning the occupied lands into US and Soviet zones. Before retreating, they turned the Luftwaffe unit and the civilians accompanying them over to Soviet forces, who were moving into the area. The experience of the civilians who fell into Soviet hands, as witnessed by Hartmann, is another horrible chapter in the record on the Soviet advance into Germany or partially ethnically-German lands.
Both of the flags being shown for the two German states (at 2:12 and 2:17) are unfortunately wrong.
The national flag of the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) does not contain the federal shield with the eagle. Shield and eagle on the flag are reserved for the government and federal agencies. The national flag which was introduced with the German constitution in 1949 only consists of the three horizontal stripes of black, red and gold.
The flag shown and meant to show the flag of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) actually represents the flag of the National People’s Army of the GDR. The national flag did not contain the additional two olive branches that surround the crest of hammer, compass and the ring of rye.
I served in the US Air Force 50-55 years ago (as a non-pilot). I was stationed in Alaska with a T/SGT who came there from Williams AFB in Arizona. He told me all sorts of horrible tales about Luftwaffe pilots who were sent there to train with West Germany's F-104 Star Fighters, including a number killed in accidents in Arizona. It was only then that I began to understand what a dangerous aircraft for a pilot it really was. It was no wonder it was called 'The Widow Maker', many times, your first mistake was also your last.
Hartmann worked as an civil flight instructor in my town from 1971 to 1974.
Dr. Felton knocks it out of the park again!
My Grandfather was offered to join the new Bundeswehr / Luftwaffe about 1956/57.
As he entered during the Weimar era then joined the Luftwaffe in 1936 Stuka force and eventually onto I/ St.G 77, finished the war as an Oberfeldwebel.
His record was clean and vested by the nearest US Army that sponsored and hosted his old Stuka unit after 1945
Paul declined the offer, after what he witnessed at Pitomnik Airfield at Stalingrad. He did not want to go through with it again.
Reminds me of the Japanese ace Saburo Sakai. When the Japanese Self-Defense Force was building it's air force Sakai was invited to join. He turned the offer down cold, he wanted nothing more to do with military aviation having become a confirmed pacifist. He wouldn't even kill mosquitos.
He DID say the only time he'd climb into a fighter cockpit again was if "The Soviet slave-masters ever reach out and try to take Japan!"
A member of my flying club was one of the first new jet pilots in luftwaffe. He flew the F84 at age 20. After crashing in a G91 he had to learn to speak, walk, write etc again, but managed to have a second career as a dendist. He told that one time he flew his F84 to Hartmanns base and made a pretty bad landing. He was ordered to the tower, where Hartmann (jokingly) kicked his bottom, saying this should give him a better feel for flying and landing a fighter 😉😉
Well Done as always, Dr. Felton!
It would have been interesting to see the match up between Soviet honchos and former German aces over Korea in the early 50s.
I'd like that as well. I'm not sure that happened as the East German airforce didn't come into existence until after 1953.
In that case they would´ve been mercenaries.... is not the case. They were loyal to West Germany, not to the US, another former enemy, as the russians...
I suppose they much preferred flying to maintain peace over engaging in another war. However, WW2 aces both on the Soviet and US side flew against each other.
The Soviets had a habit of flying combat for other countries. When Egypt was losing so many MiGs to Israeli pilots, the Soviet "advisors" mocked the Egyptian pilots for their inept ability. So the Egyptians told the Russians to go ahead and prove they were better. The Soviets didn't fare better than the Egyptians.
Believe this was during what's called The War of Attrition, prior to the Yom Kippur attack in October 1973.
Supposedly this bad experience against the IAF is what prompted the Soviet/Egyptian commands to place extra heavy emphasis on ground based AA missiles and AAA.
After watching this wonderful episode I Can't wait to see the Eastern front Arial Veterans. Excellent work Mark Felton.
Hartmann was 100% an Eastern Front veteran, right down to the USAAF fighters he shot down over Romania
My uncle was a pilot for the Luftwaffe during the war. He flew mostly transport planes. When the war ended and the new Luftwaffe was born he tried to regain his wings. He was denied due to his indoctrination. He died a very bitter man.
Disgusting how German WW2 veterans were treated after the war, men that fought for their country deserved respect. My grandfather was a German paratrooper in Italy, he married an Italian woman and moved there, I met him when I was very young and he was elderly, I wish I had know what a treasure he was. I joined the Army at 17 and earned my Airborne wings(89 jumps at the time of retirement) and honored him with a diving eagle tattoo on my right shoulder.
@@VictoryOrValhalla14 Thank you for that and honoring those that tried to defend Europe from communist invasion.
@@BasementEngineer always.
The other nickname used for the F-104 was "Erdnagel"
WOW! They flew till the other day.
Wasn't expecting that.
Germany had the nicest uniforms ever... I can't stop watching these videos
They were made by Hugo Boss using slave labour. Funfact Hugo Boss still makes coats that have a Red Patch on the right Arm (though it Shows the Hugo Logo and not the swastika)
@@jhh1451 they were made by them but not designed
Yup, all around the world, military costumes serve an important PR function. It helps those who can't think for themselves believe in what they're being told.
@@D4rthDuck never said otherwise
@@D4rthDuck he didn't even say "designed", wtf do you mean?
Otto Kittel & Egon Mayer
To me are underrated Luftwaffe Ace's.
My father, born 1925, finished pilot training in February 1945, but due to fuel and equipment shortage his entire class was sent to Berlin to defend the city against Russian forces. He was part of the 5th Jaeger Div, he saw Goering inspecting the front lines in April 1945. At night time he could hear the Russians talk, they were that close to each other. He was extremely lucky to survive,......war is horrible. What struck me the most was that he didn't even have a German rife, he had an old French carabiner, equipment was that sparse. After the war he did not re-enlist into the Bundeswehr, he neither kept his pilots licence, but he was always active in the Luftwaffe Pilots association, I spent many glorious days attending Luftwaffe "open days" in 70/80s where my father was invited. All of the old boys were treated with respect, the younger BW jet pilots were keen to listen to any story the old boys had to tell.
This is hard to believe but it's true, the German army in WW2 never had enough of their own small arms to go around. While the front-line troops were typically well-equipped the support and occupation forces were frequently equipped with captured weapons. It's no surprise your father was given a French rifle to fight with.
I believe you. At one point they had more non German tanks and vehicles than German ones. They also relied heavily on horses and mules for transporting equipment.
@@bugler75 Right. I've heard it said that when Operation Barbarossa began the motorized portion of the German invasion looked like "A military museum on wheels." The Germans scrounged usable tanks (mostly Czech) and trucks from all over the occupied countries.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 I know that they reused French tanks, which actually were very good, to occupy Europe whilst they sent their more modern PzIIIs and IVs to North Africa. They relied heavily on their horses right through the war. I had a book, long since lost which I really regret which showed the statistical comparison between the Axis and Allies and the Germans were actually outnumbered in armour about 4 to 1. Because vyhwir armoir was manufactured to such a high standard it was easier to repair their armour whereas the Allies, after the Americans entered the war, could just replace a damaged tank. I really wish I could remember the name of the book.
😂😂😂😂😂natürlich
Only in your channel I didn't skip the ads Herr professor, please keep upload and enlightening us
Another great video Mark. Love the ww2 documentaries when Gunther Rall talked about flying the ME109
The Starfighter procurement scandal is interesting. The Netherlands had a similar scandal known as "Lockheed schandaal" with Prince Bernhard involved in it. I didn't know it was just one of a series of bribery scandals in several countries.
Bernard was a nazi
@@WELLBRAN For a short time in the 1930's he was a member, yes. When he left Germany to marry princess Juliana, he gave Hitler a weak, soft hand when he came by to say goodbye. Hitler did not think much of him. Later on, Bernhard became Inspector General, until he fell from grace after accepting gifts from Lockheed.
It would good to hear a Mark Felton story about the "Starfighter scandal". Wasn't the Starfighter just an interceptor & not a true fighter? I wonder if that was the problem with the Starfighter...?
@@morgan97475 The German Starfighter had to carry a lot of extra equipment. The extra weight was too much and in that configuration, it was a widow maker.
@@PassportToPimlico Much appreciated. interesting.
The man on the left, at 9:48 named Kuprinski, is actually ww2 ace Walter Krupinski, credited with 197 victories and a member of the famous JV44 jet squadron. He also became a General in the post-war Luftwaffe and consequently also had to retire due to a scandal.
The man on the left is not Walter Krupinski. He is Gerhard Barkhorn(1911-1983), second most succesful German fighter pilot during WW2 era. Also high ranking member of the Bundesluftwaffe. So the photo at 9:48 includes top-3 German aces of WW2 (Barkhorn, Hartmann and Rall).
@@jyrkilindholm2691 Yeah, you're right. I wasn't paying attention to the face too much, just the misspelled name.. But they do look somewhat alike, don't they?
If I remember correctly the main problem with the F-104-G (German version) in the Luftwaffe was that it was not used in its main role as an air superiority fighter, but that it was decided to modify it to be a multirole fighter / bomber etc., a role for which it was not designed. Also during this modification there were technical issues. Among the pilots who crashed and died was the Son of the German Defense Minister Kai Uwe von Hassel (Himself an officer of the Wehrmachts Abwehr Department in WW2) , who was overseeing the introduction of the jets.
@@rigasarzemnieks4230 Smack on target!
There were many reasons from all sides. Politicians made it to a bomber with low range so they had to put reserve tanks under those little wings. The german air force had no skilled maintenance crew and the air force personell was a little uncontrolled in the beginnning. This plane had a lot of teething in the beginning not to mention this ejection seat ejecting downward when this plane had a lot of problems (wings, engines) on take off.
@@rigasarzemnieks4230
wrong the 104C was the USAF fighterbomber version of the F-104 A and
the USAF used the F-104C in the fighter Bomber role for a short time during the Vietnam war, all Planes painted in SEA Camo.
@@indahooddererste I agree but!
The F-104G used at first the Lockheed C-2 upward firing Seat later replaced by Martin Bakers GQ-7, the USAF fighterbomber version F-104C used an upwardfiring seat too, only the early (interceptor) A Version used a downwardfiring seat.
About Droptanks, the 104 G could carry up to four in the nuclear strike role two under the Wings and two Wingtiptanks plus the Nuclear payload on the centerline Pylon, its called the four Tanker configuration in service.
I'll never ceased to be amazed at how you always find something unique and interesting to talk about.
Another video in this vein could be done about German ex-Kriegsmarine officers like Admiral Paul Hartwig who was promoted to Commander of the NATO fleet in 1972. Hartwig had a killing spree in the Gulf of St. Lawrence where he sank eight merchant ships and HMCS Charlottetown in Canadian territorial waters while in command of U 517.
I had the great privilege of interviewing dozens of these pilots, and met Kammhuber once for a few hours in his home. Erich Hartmann took me there, same with Obleser.
According to Franz Stigler, of the “Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler Incident,” many of the fighter pilots had a disdain for the Party, didn’t join and avoided those who did. Makes sense it was easy to clear so many fighter jockeys for the new Luftwaffe
Stigler actually said that's WHY he joined the Luftwaffe. Unlike the Wehrmacht (German Army), the Luftwaffe did not have to take a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler. As a matter of fact, by the late months of the war he and a few pilots hated the Nazi government so much that they even joked in private about them all drowning at sea, allowing Germany to survive. It sounded like they were some decent people stuck in an absolutely impossible situation. Sad how they will always have a tarnished image because of the Nazi monsters, Wehrmacht war criminals and the bomb raids on civilian towns.
@@thunderbird1921 No ones gonna buy your bullshet fairytale.
@@elviadarkgrape2859 If you wish to read Mr. Stigler's own description of it, read the book A Higher Call. It's no fairy tale.
@@elviadarkgrape2859 I concur you would think the only pro Hitler Germans were Eva and his dogs.
Reminds me of the American soldier who said he had fought half way across Germany before he met his first Nazi.
Dr. Felton will never run out of topics! Its incredible how much info is there to uncover
Mark, are you going to work on WW2 German admirals serving in post war Bundesmarine next?
I have said it before and I will say it again, mark is the greatest living modern history historian alive today. No question!
My father was a Navigator of the Swedish Saab Lansen in the late 50's to mid 60's. When Sweden sold the Lansen to Austria, the swedes taught many of the former Luftwaffe pilots to fly the plane.
Austria received the Saab Tunnen not the Lansen
🤔Unusual details, accuracy, no filler or sensationalising - thanks Mark 😎
In the mid '90s I was the guest of a particular Jagdbombergeschwader - I won't identify the unit in full or the base - and I was quite taken aback at the amount of Nazi era memorabilia relating to the unit on display in the officers mess. Given the unit did have a long & proud history this could be understood, but it was still a surprise just how openly this was all displayed as a matter of normality. I understand that eventually the German Government instructed the Luftwaffe to ensure that no units openly displayed anything of this kind anywhere on any base....
That's very interesting. Are we takling swastika type memorabilia? Was it maps or trophies? Photos?
@@tpxchallenger - Yes, all that you mention plus from memory a few uniforms. I also remember that the photos stood out, with several showing Goring visiting the unit.
@@davidb2206 - I agree. The Officers I was with were in no way promoting Nazism, but proud of the historical element of their unit. I would assume that somewhere along the line people visited military installations and complained about what they saw, or narrow thinking politicians got involved....
@@RA76951 ...especially narrow thinking Politicans!! We Germans, now " a Volk von Gutmenschentum" who are biased on their History. Yes, History can be "bad", but if you erase it, it will happen again!
@@Wuestenkarsten - today's 'cancel culture' I guess. But misguided perception can be almost as bad - because I have an interest in military aviation, I have even come across people who think I must have right wing sympathies!
It's always a pleasure to have a short history class with Dr.Felton
Hans Rudel´s book "Stuka Pilot" is a masterpiece!
DOUGLAS Bader, I recall, wrote the intro to the English language version of HU Rudel's book.
Outstanding content, brilliantly delivered. Thank you, Mark. 🇨🇦
You never disappoint Mr. Felton
I've always loved this era of history from learning in school, I love how easy it is to show my friends your videos and spark the endless love for history, seriously Mark, thank you
Great episode, and I never knew that the WW2 medals became de-Nazified and wearable (which is pretty cool). A ton of detail in here that I did not know.
Former german soldiers had nearly no possibility to wear their medals, because there was ( and still is) no veteran culture in Germany. The outcry of leftwingers would have been heared in USA.
A Nazi Wearing a Nazi medal is pretty cool ?
@@danboro1831 They wasn’t all Nazis
Occasionally those de-Nazified medals show up at militaria shows. Interesting to see.
@@danboro1831 You’ve got a problem with it?
Hands down the best WWII history channel! 👍🏻
At a German base we visited while on exercise in the 70s, there was a poster with a photo of a Starfighter, the line beneath translated to; " Would you like to own a Starfighter? Buy a farm and wait."
Fascinating, thanks once again Mark Felton!
I got the notification..immediately clicked and watched the video..another dynamite documentary by Mr Mark Felton
I had the honor to meet Mr. Günther Rall in Finland in 2003. Professional soldier and true gentleman. He was greeted with applause and told the audience that in Germany it was still difficult to speak about war, even 60- years after it.
love this channel
Thank you so much Dr. Felton, I've been waiting for this particular topic. Love this channel and more power to you!
I saw Erich Hartmann's uniform at the Smithsonian Institute in the 1980s.
More and more, Mark is providing that vital link between the past and the present. It is never just history, as accurate as it might be. I believe we are all enlightened by his coverage of more recent and even present conflicts. Chaotic as conflicts can be, he skillfully infuses them with understanding and insight. A huge contrast to the numbing bombardment we face from both main stream and social media. Thank you for this especially good one.
I remember my dad's youngest brother telling about all those F-104 crashes. A couple of times he had to help clean up some of the mess. There was a reason it wasn't in US inventory all that long.
How to get a starfighter?
Buy a property and wait.
German Joke from the 60s.
The F104 had a similar reputation in Canada although its crash record wasn't really worse than the F-86 in Canadian service.
The problem was, the plane is a high altitufe, high speed daytime interceptor and pretty good at that. It just so happens that the Luftwaffe actually needed a multi-role plane that was low-altitude strike capable...
And so this bribery scandal came to be. The main protagonist was Franz-Jose Strauß, secretary of defense at the time. Because he was a powerful figure, he escaped it pretty much unscathed. Too bad, so many pilots did not, because they were given a plane for a different role that was extremely difficult to fly in terrain following missions...
@@Ganiscol That is the usual take on the problem. The Canadians did very well in strike/ground attack competitions with it and felt its small size and speed made it a difficult target for air defenses.
On the other hand, it had a small payload, no more than a Corsair and half of an A-1. By waiting a few years, everyone could have had F-4s which were more expensive (but not prohibitively so) and were very much more capable aircraft.
The B-47 Stratojet was another horrifyingly dangerous craft. I think 10% ever made were involved in accidents or crashes (including 2-3 notorious ones in Britain where the RAF had to frantically help our staffers extinguish the fireballs and contain damage). Thank goodness the far safer B-52 came along soon after.
Well done mark keep finding these stories and posting them,,i thought i was well educated on these subjects but i keep learning more every dad and im 60 years old so keep them coming thanks fella
Good on Hartmann for giving the reds the middle finger and ready to ride it out to hell if he had to,I didn't know that but I was aware of his accomplishments and knew he was one of the best to ever do it but no idea he had the most "kills" or "victories", but yeah, good job Mr Hartmann and good video Mr Felton 👍
I find it unconscionable that the Brits and Americans turned so many over to the Soviets. Surely they at least had some inkling of the mistreatment and horrors that the Soviets put both German POWs and their own misplaced people through.
In the book I read about him he really insulted the Russians another time. The Russian's were interrogating him and claimed he was the top scoring German ace with 352 kills. But Hartmann countered that Hans-Joachim Marseille had shot down over 150 British aircraft, and they considered one British flown aircraft equal to three Russian. What an insult to those Russians, lol.
i always admire the Luftwaffe from its very beginning.
Eric Hartmann’s record of 352 air victories will never be broken.
Unless someone flying a drone counts.
Yet another clear, concise and fact packed offering. Really enjoy Mark's work.
Mark's youtube theme song reminds me of the 'WW2 in color' theme song. One of the best channels on youtube!
Mr felton is always my favourite historian
I remember asking my 10th Grade German teacher, "Herr Müller - the West German Air Force used the F-104, didn't they?" He answered me, bright-eyed, "Yes! And they made special modifications on them so they fell out of the sky!!!"