Always lots of comments “if pro/rel happens, THEN I’ll support my local team” your local team needs support NOW! Don’t just virtue signal, help the sport grow in the US!
😂 True! They won't support now they won't support later. Heck, they won't support when their team never reaches the top division after years of trying 😂
My local club is in USL League 1. If they were to introduce Pro/Rel, it would officially become my favorite league! EDIT: (in case you misread)… my local club is already my favorite club; I’m talking about the league
This is exactly what I point out to people and use minor league baseball teams as an example. Minor leagues have may small attendance since people care less if it's not the top league. But if you allow the opportunity to let them move up, you would ignite a fanbase like crazy.
My hometown club is Union Omaha (USL1). In Open Cup play, we have beaten clubs from USL Championship and MLS. Since our club's formation four years ago, we have won the Players' Shield (regular season title) twice, League Cup (playoff championship) once, reached the playoff finals a second time (cancelled due to COVID-19), and made an Open Cup quarterfinal run. The fact that we are still sitting in USL1 is a travesty. Any club with that resume has done more than enough to warrant promotion.
@@TMAC803210 Tough to draw SKC this early. But, we do get them up here. They put us to the sword a couple years ago. In a universe in which pro/rel existed across the entire American pyramid, an Omaha/KC derby would potentially be pretty good. We have been KC's little brother for decades. Culturally, the two cities are quite similar. But, we're a smaller, minor league city. They've had Super Bowl champions, World Series champions, and MLS since the league's inception. The thing is, Omahans are proud. We are accustomed to running things within our own state. We don't like being patted on the head and told we're cute. And generally, when we decide to do something, we do it big and do it well. Honestly, I feel Omaha would be a fantastic city to host a top flight, premiership club. The locals are fanatically loyal. We already turn up in huge numbers for other events (Creighton basketball, College World Series, Division 1 hockey, Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting, a half dozen arena and theatre venues for music, Nebraska football down the road in Lincoln, etc, etc). An MLS club (or whatever they might call themselves after some future hypothetical reform of the US pyramid) is hardly a stretch to consider. As excited as I am about the new stadium and the entertainment district surrounding it, I was mildly disappointed by the size - 7-8 thousand, I believe. I was hoping for twice that size, TBH. Baby steps, I guess.
@@gabrielgroen2522 I certainly appreciate that. I'm looking forward to the new stadium. The great thing about it will be its location, called "NODO" (NOrth DOwntown) by the locals. The area has a lot of bars, restaurants, a nice riverfront walk, and mid-range to upscale condos and apartments. It's also walking distance to other sports arenas, concert venues, and the city's principal entertainment/nightlife district. A new light rail system will take fans from mid-city to the stadium (or quite close to it). As for being on the other side of the country from us, join the club. We are as far as we could possibly be from any part of the US one might call interesting, or so many people say. They call us flyover country for a reason. Others simply say that Omaha is the government's default destination for Mafia snitches in witness protection. (That last bit is actually true - Henry Hill of Goodfellas fame lived here after testifying against Jimmy Burke and Big Paulie). Regardless, thanks for the love. COYO (Come On You Owls)
It's little funny when you were discussing regionalisation it was mentioned about England being geographically small and getting around on a bus. The English pyramid structure is very heavily regionalised when you get towards the bottom. And this is for the exact same reasons, travel costs etc. The 11th tier is basically county level with small villages taking on works teams. Every Saturday at 3pm there over 5,000 clubs kicking a ball around, and thats just the official pyramid in the Mens game.
You'd imagine the UPSL, NPSL, & NISA teams would quickly be absorbed into USL if they implemented pro/rel. If they can unite the rest of the pyramid under the USL umbrella it would be massive. To officially get the MLS vs the rest
@@nateskie75 Chicken vs the egg man. The people in these leagues are selfish that's the truth. I think this is a build it and they will come situation. There is NISA, USL, NPSL, UPSL nationally. And then there are other regional adult leagues not affiliated with what I listed. There is also some other league that says they will start at a 3rd tier league at some point. Getting them to unite isn't going to happen with "talks". If you offer these clubs the chance to actually move up the pyramid that's going to be the thing that brings in everyone. The American soccer scene is working more like a monopoly board because the federation has and is subservient to the MLS.
The only problem is USL has territory rights. Some clubs compete in NISA/NASL because they _can't_ join USL because another club already claimed the territory. See OCSC/Irvine Zeta in the same region (USL1 vs NISA, same stadium)
A closed system like MLS limits the number of teams to around 30 or so. Already we have major league cities that are excluded because it's too late unless a smaller city team relocates. With pro-rel you multiply the number of candidate cities, even though they can't all be in the top division at the same time, they do have the opportunity to get there. That should increase competition, which can only raise the level of play. Something one might consider if there are enough teams is to have two regional but equivalent "leagues" or "divisions" that play each other in an end of season playoff. (Baseball has two leagues and it used to be the World Series was the playoff.) Otherwise keep their schedules within the region. We easily have the potential for 40 or more big league cities.
Greg attempted to sidestep the question about MLS and USL competing. He was a little bit on edge when Filippo decided to push further 23:10. Good journalism Tac, no softball questions like the big broadcasters.
As a Birmingham Legion fan I really hope that the USL actually does it. That being said this all feels very disingenuous at this point. They have been promising this for five years and as a fan and a spectator it seems that very little, if anything, has actually happened. I was always raised and told that if you don’t mean it, don’t say it. If you say it and don’t mean it and keep saying it, nobody will believe you. It’s starting to feel like the USL is the boy who cried Wolf with promotion and relegation. Either stop fake promising it or actually do it. And look, if y’all don’t want to do promotion and relegation… That’s fine. No other sports league in the US does it. If you want to do it, that is great and I want to see it. Just don’t lie to us about what the actual plan is and keep promising something that isn’t coming.
To be fair, they haven't been promising it. They've only said they're interested and to do it they would need to be extremely strategic about it. The way league standards are set up and how few support they have compared to MLS, it would be a mess if they just flipped a switch. A lot needs to be done.
Keep in mind that they have needed more clubs for pro/rel and it takes time, but the USL is getting a lot more clubs, more clubs means pro/rel is more likely imo
as a Birmingham native, i think people should think more realistically. I don't see Soccer being big in the States especially when the sports haven't made it to the inner cities and the salaries are not as big as the BIG 3. NBA, NFL, MLB. Plus Soccer being a pay to play sport like all sports in the US is not helping its case. As far as I'm concerned, The MLS will be smaller than the WNBA or NCAA Women's Basketball in the upcoming years.
@@cuzzozanteeno2127 soccer is on a long growing trajectory in the states. MLS average attendance is 80% of MLB (though MLB has waaaay more games) and higher than NBA or NHL (which granted have lower arena capacity). USL and NWSL are on the rise too. The revenue isn't there yet but it's heading in the right direction. Plus with the world cup coming to the US in 2026, it is pretty clear that pro soccer is on the rise in the US.
He says it in the video but for those who missed it & want to catch future USL games, all games are usually on ESPN+, certain games will be on CBS Golazo, and a select few throughout the season on CBSSN & actual CBS. Go Riverhounds !
Righto, I've cracked the code. Across MLS, USL and NISA there are 215 teams. Excluding USL2 there are 93 fully pro teams. So: MLS (20 teams, 3 relegated), MLS 2 (20 teams, 3 promoted, 4 relegated), MLS Regional Premier (53 teams left split into North, South, Central and West, 12-14 teams each. 1 each, 4 total teams promoted, and 1 each 4 total teams relegated). Now comes the USL 2 teams, functioning essentially like the English National League, using the same system as MLS Regional Premier. Now It's just called MLS Regional 1, MLS Regional 2, and based on geography it looks like the East could have MLS Regional 3. Approximately 9-10 teams in each region at each level. At each level one is promoted and one is relegated up to or down to their regional equivalent. Like in England though, there might be some reshuffling some years to balance the regional numbers (like national league north and national league south, my team Leamington FC have been in both. Any new clubs then enter at the bottom regional level, no matter how rich the owner is. Anyway - San Jose is probably starting in MLS2 and with 6 games to go could go on a tear and just nick promotion, or completely slump and fall to relegation, that kind of team. And at the moment I think Oakland Roots will be MLS Regional Premier and battling relegation.
No it is and always will be 32 in MLS no relegation. 32 teams in 2nd tier, no relegation. 64 teams in 4 regional leagues in 3rd tier no relegation. NCAA and High School soccer provide the rest. No further need of professional soccer is wanted or desired. Relegation is a waste of time, and if ever attempted in America would be made illegal. Essentially its fraud.
No, first off 20 teams is too few, No Pro/Rel will be tolerated in the United States or Canada so get that garbage out of your head. US Soccer will be MLS(32 team National league) 2 32 team league Regional Leagues(East and West) for the 2nd tier. 8, 16 league teams Sub Regional (North East, Midwest, South, and West), from there you drop to NCAA, and no further professional teams are needed, and you have 224 Pro teams over three levels, and 205 NCAA Division 1 programs, 206 NCAA Division 2 Programs and another thousand Division III and Junior College programs. League play for all levels starts April 1st, Ends September 30th. All teams play 52 games, games played Saturday and Tuesday without fail or exception. No Ties, Sudden Death overtime rules. No season pauses for Olympics or World Cup, No bullshit tournaments. League play or nothing. Playoffs are best of 3 played every other day. Also Countdown clock with a time keeper, no plus time.
Im a Louisville City fan and I love the USL but wish it got more recognition. The CBS deal was great exposure but I still think there needs to be better promotion to the general public about the league. I’m for promotion/relegation and hope in the future it is a thing but the way MLS clubs shell out big money to become a franchise makes me weary it will ever happen
Right now a theoretical "relegation" from MLS to USL would be a loss in franchise value in excess of ninety percent. That gap must close to make pro/rel feasible, and at the moment it just isn't happening. You put that kind of risk into the investment, say goodbye to your big expansion fees and fancy new soccer stadiums.
MSL sucks Louisville better not join MLS USL is planning to take over the US soccer seen it won't be long before a mls joins USl,lf Indy 11 joins MLS it will be destroying its franchise
I think that people are carefully thinking about but not mentioning is that American investment into football clubs are already happening and growing in Europe, seeing movie stars, athletes, singers want to convert their money into investments. The English football system has 22 American owners/minority owners in the top 3 leagues already. I wouldn't be surprised if more minority owners and sponsors would put more interest into investing once ESPN and CBS picks up USL, making it the next gold rush.
Don't like the "coming soon" in the thumbnail as it feels like bait. In my opinion pro/rel is indeed a possibility but won't happen for 5-10 years. They need heavy investment into stadiums to meet D1 standards. And they need a lot more teams across the board, but specifically in Championship, to break off a division to have in between Championship and League 1, so they can have a D1-D3 system. Because pro/rel from D2 below between two leagues isn't too attractive especially for casual fans. It's going to take a long time and a lot of work, but it's possible.
I"m a huge San Antonio FC fan and big fan of USL Championship and support the local team. Always concerned with MLS muscling into USL markets such what happened to San Diego and also what appears to be happening in Indianapolis. I think Pro/Rel would be a game changer!
USL is a cool league. It gives opportunities to the young American, young Mexican and young CONCACAF players. It’s a very organic league. These are some of the reasons why soccer fans like USL.
I'm glad you brought up the way Brazilian teams qualify for Serie D, most people don't know that. I actually think that's the route we should go if we do it, Brazil is the best comparison we have globally.
@@axelll971 they have the top 4 tiers that are run by the federation. but below that it's only the state leagues. They have the national leagues that run for most of the year. But they also have the time when big teams play just the state league will smaller teams within that state. For the lower leagues below 4, the 5th tier champions don't automatically qualify to the Serie D. And teams don't really relegate out of serie D. So they gave two separate pyramids (1-4) and the state pyramid. It's very complicated
@@rq7284 thx for the information. I don’t really see the major differences with other countries. For instance, the French league has three professional divisions: ligue 1, ligue 2, and national 1. All of them have a promotion and relegation system (and playing across all the country). Below these professional divisions, there are (pseudo-amateur or) amateur divisions: national 2, regional 1, regional 2, division d’honneur, etc. All of these amateur divisions are played locally inside their distinct geographic areas and overseas French regions. Regional 2, and division d’honneur does not allow direct promotion to the other divisions. The teams in these divisions stay at the amateur level and play locally (as the logistics to made overseas French teams travel for playing every weeks against other French teams will be too costly). In parallel there is the French national cup tournament. In this cup, the amateur teams start to play between each other in their respective division. The resulting winners travel and play against the professional teams (they travel one at four times if they made it too the final).
My team is one knox in league 1. Been going to games since their inception. But even regular sports fans/ casual soccer fans all think pro-rel would be amazing. Some are confused that it doesn't exist.
Jägermeister was the first company to put their brand on the jersey of a Bundesliga team in 1973. Since advertising on players gear was still prohibited back then it was just the brand icon without the word Jägermeister on the shirts of Eintracht Braunschweig. The advertising ban in the Bundesliga was lifted shortly after.
I would love to see it. If MLS wants to expand they could look to the top USL teams, maybe some agreement can be made there. The logistics of travel has got to be the biggest burden by far.
I am working on a franchise for USL 1 in Utah right now.. I'm curious how/where future franchises would buy in and be placed. They cannot be allowed to buy into Championship...
My hometown had a USL team. I would get free tickets to the supporters section from friends who were there every home game. Unfortunately the team died during covid
through watching this video I was able to find out that I have a USL 2 team that plays in the fields across from where I coach. I will be supporting them this year even though their youth teams are rivals...
I really want a USL team in Harrisburg PA! The only form of professional soccer we have in the CAPITAL of Pennsylvania is the professional indoor team the Harrisburg Heat. I’ve been to a game and they are fun but I would prefer to watch outdoor. Hopefully some team is formed soon!
My USL Championship club is RGV Toros. We completely dissolved in 2024 after around 8 years of existence. We had a fairly solid team too. Many, and I mean MANY USL teams, cannot financially support ourselves. Our stadium was usually 20% full most games. Right now, promotion is a very bad idea. Maybe in the distant future tho.
That's always been common with American soccer teams. Even former mls teams have folded in the past due to financial reasons. For a team to be successful there has to be a strong market to cater to. Without that how can a team survive unless they relocate to a market that is willing to support a soccer team
@@sergiorodriguez956 A lot of the problem is attendance competition from other leagues too. Most large cities have an NBA, MLB, and an NFL team. How many games overlap and how many people are willing to forgo attending another sport to see a soccer game. This doesn't even include college sports that are essentially D2 leagues. I think everything will have to wait on the 2026 World Cup... and that the USMNT will have to perform well in it to inspire the older generations to attend games.
The USL tried this before. Its not so easy, you don't just win the league and move up there is so much more involved. 1. every club needs to play on a pitch with lighting, 2. you need locker rooms; 3. the size of pitch; 4. to be competitive you need to pay your players more 5. the league fees goes up 6. the seating capacity has to meet a minimum size 7. the traveling cost can increase; 8. your front office staff needs to increase 9. your media and commercial footprint increases 10. the number and size of your sponsorship needs to increase to help cover your expenses; and there are more. For this reason most clubs put together a business plan and sign onto the league and division they do because of the costs, and the wealth of the ownership group involved with the club. The last time the USL tried something like pro/rel (this was back.... if I remember right in the mid 90s I think maybe only 2 clubs participated and moved up no one moved down, and then the league dropped the idea.
I agree for USL to implement the pro/rel system, as it gives more recognition for the teams. Plus, three of the USL Leagues are not far off each other in league attendance, financial, and supporters profile. So, for USL is no problem in the future if they implement pro/rel.
In the US, clubs are 100% businesses that a person or group buys into. There is an expectation that your investment will, at least, stay at the same "level" - at least in sports. I can see original USL owners being wary about ending up in a lower league and thus their investment taking a dump (though the argument is - you didn't mind the store enough). Those at the initial top of the pyramid have the most to lose but also to gain if the American public takes to it. But, imagine buying a McDonalds franchise, with its initial multi-million dollar franchise fee, and then ending up as a John Doe Burger joint... FWIW, I am for relegation; it would be a news maker and really shake things up. Not that it is anything definitive but I just happened to have watched a number of "reaction" videos of Americans learning about promotion/relegation and each one loved the idea. They sort of all dislike that the worst team of their favorite sport really isn't penalized for being bad but rewarded in getting the best new players for next season...
@@AKPhillythere are many (like me) who would choose USL over MLS if they adopted pro/rel. But are there enough MLS fans like me? I don't know. I don't think USL believes there are at the moment
@@AKPhillythat's the point of this discussion. USL needs something that can be a breakthrough for them. They are hoping pro/rel could be it, but will it? Are there enough people like me who are digusted by MLS ready to jump ship? We dont know.
I don’t have a local USL team but we are getting one in 2025 called USL Antelope Valley and will compete in USL league one. I live in Santa Clarita which is a suburban city in the LA county. But the stadium that is being built right now is about one hour from where I live. The stadium is in Lancaster which is in the same valley where I live. That’s why the team is call antelope valley. I don’t have a car but there is a train that passes by every hour. Can’t wait to support my local team soon!
I am a North Carolina native who has lived in Lexington Kentucky for the last three years. I have a child playing in the LSC youth league but I also watch out for NCFC. I'm a fan of both.
Here up in Maine I never thought would would have a team, but yet the name is being revealed tomorrow on the 27th for a league one team! Love the growth and great to see!
I am about 2 hours away from two League Two teams Lexington and West Virginia. I may go check them out this summer. Cincinatti FC is fours from my house, but tickets are outrageous.
When USL implements pro-rel and leapfrogs the MLS in prominence, it shouldn't even entertain the MLS. If some MLS clubs want to pay the fee to join to the ULS from the bottom-up then that should be open, of course.
What I would love to see is the following... 1. USL and the Canadian Premier League merge. 2. Four USL Leagues: USL Championship, USL League 1, USL League 2 and USL League 3. 3. Pro-rel between the Championship, League 1 and League 2. League 3 is the semi-pro or "pre-pro" league that League 2 is today and would not be part of pro-rel. 4. USL expand into metro areas without a MLS team that are roughly at least 1 million in population in the 🇺🇸 and 🇨🇦. San Juan, 🇵🇷 should also be included.
@@xaaviaudreek4859 Thanks to MLS, the 🇺🇸 and 🇨🇦 are tied at the hip to each other in ⚽️. Until recently, there were 🇨🇦 teams in USL League 2. This merger would increase the number of clubs, making it viable to implement pro-rel across three leagues. My USL League 3 would be comprised of clubs in the 🇺🇸, separate but on the same level with 🇨🇦's semi-pro regional League1 leagues.
@@davidday2373 lmaoo, right? Pete really doing his best to virtue signal looks pretty lame if you unpack that statement. “If I get my way, then I’ll like you.”
Ive been to MBFC and Roots games with great experiences, but on TV these stadiums are tough to watch. Cant just have basic Community college or minor league baseball stadiums. Plus all the football lacrosse lines just take me out. Asking him about stadium infrastructure would have been great to hear about too
I don’t think it’s a good idea. Mlb was killed from the lack of parity. There is no salary cap, so if you’re not in a big market your team has essentially a 0% chance of winning a title each year. This is why the mlb is dying. If they introduced pro/rel to the mls a team getting relegated would make that team irrelevant and it would be a death sentence to the franchise. It’s not a good idea when people can just watch other teams in their city that still play in the top leagues.
Much rather watch and support USL teams than mls. Our original team is Little Rock rangers. Moved to Jacksonville Florida three years ago. Have been to a rowdies game, it was dope.
*I’m already supporting my local team. Go Rowdies! I dont consider any of these Messi wearing Mls fans real football fans. Its all just hype. It will take decades before the relegation system is where it needs to be*
Be careful what you ask for. Are League 1 teams financially able to compete in the Championship? If so, fine, but you may end up with League 1 teams electing not to take promotion, or teams self-relegating because they don't have the $$$ to compete at the USL Championship level. Would the Rowdies or Louisville City be able to maintain the same support playing Tormenta or Forward Madison if they were to be relegated? Just food for thought. I'm not against it, just not convinced it will work this late in the game.
I'm not convinced it'll take in America in a major way, here in England, clubs are big parts of certain communities (it is a ride or die mentality) ironically a club near me (Port Vale, I live in South Cheshire Vale Park is about a 30 minute drive from me) got relegated to League Two last week, and another club near me (Crewe Alexandra are about 25-30 mins away too) could qualify for the League Two promotion playoffs, im not a fan of either (my club is Arsenal, its my family's team) but I do go to some games at Vale and Crewe (also Stoke City, but that's the far side of the city) the crowds aren't overly big at Vale or Crewe (about 4000-5000 fans), it's a nice theory for the US, but it's not a part of your guys culture, so I'm not sure if the interest would be there if you suddenly switched to pro/rel, I think if the MLS keeps expanding they might toy with an MLS Premier and MLS 2 eventually, im just not sure Americans will take to pro/rel, like I said its just been part of our culture forever, you guys have never had that in any of your leagues
You make a fair point, with respect to American sporting culture. Promotion and relegation is indeed a foreign concept to us. Furthermore, the traditional pro/rel format does have serious problems which its advocates, both in Europe and the US, tend to ignore. I believe that the American pyramid needs reform. MLS is far too large - 30 teams... No way. And there are too many different leagues occupying more or less the same space in the lower divisions. Our target ought to be four fully professional leagues, each with 18-22 clubs. The good news is, the clubs already exist. Next, promotion and relegation ought to be conditional. First, a promoted club ought to have facilities adequate to the next higher league. That is a reasonable stipulation which already exists in England. Second condition: a four team, two legged playoff between the bottom finishers of the higher league and the top finishers of the higher league. Any promoted club ought to show it can take points, score and defend against the worst clubs of the next highest league. Otherwise, what hope have they got to compete with anyone else at the next level? Conversely, any club which cannot take points from an inferior side with a smaller payroll has earned relegation. In fact, they've earned it twice - first, by being sh1t all year, second by losing to a club from a lower league. A pro/rel playoff would be exciting and compelling. It would lend drama to lower divisions with less exposure, and a chance at redemption to clubs which have suffered a disappointing season. It would minimize the promotion yoyo effect we see in Europe. I have been a fan of the world game since the mid 1970s. I have been a Celtic fan since the 1980s (yes, yes... Champions of a farmer's league). I desperately want to see my country embrace the Beautiful Game. I also want us to influence it positively by implementing the best parts of European and Latin American footballing culture whilst retaining the genius of Yankee ingenuity in the marketing of sports and entertainment.
@kentgrady9226 your right there are plenty of scenarios that could be used like the bottom team automatically goes and the 2nd bottom club has a pro/rel playoff with the runner up from the lower division (the top team is automatically promoted) like you said if you can't beat the lower league team you deserve to go down, I said to a few Vale fans the other week they deserve to go down, they played Exeter the other week were 2-0 up at half time and bottled it losing 2-4 in the end, to me the only problem I see is the culture thing with American sports, and will the support hold enough for the relegated clubs to stay in business, the MLS kind of works because its a massive country, and the East/West thing breaks things up a bit, with an MLS 2 there'll need to be a East/West dynamic again, like the best team from the East gets promoted to MLS 1 East and the best in the West goes to MLS 1 West and there's a playoff between the East runner up and the 2nd bottom Eastern team and the same with the West, I think it might happen some day with the MLS but not right now
Great 2 part video! Recently attended a Rhode Island FC match, and honestly found it fun and exciting . I used to be a season ticket holder to the NE Revolution, but that was some time ago, and I find the vibe with USL a bit more authentic than MLS now, and I'm not knocking MLS, but I feel more drawn to USL rather than MLS. Thanks for the video.
I’m afraid that won’t happen. You’ll see the same people who will only support their local club under conditions come up with new terms. “I’ll only support Orange County if they spend big money on players”
@@TMAC803210Those type of fans will just stick to watching the big clubs of Europe. I think we need to grow the culture and the identity of local clubs to give fans a reason to care about them other then "be the best".
Louisville City FC fan!!! Just read on the USL site that they are currently working on this. Its coming. Will be great for the competition in the league.
I live in Atlanta and ofc we have Atlanta United but if it came down to it I’d support a USL team in ATL 100% of AtlUtd if USL gets pro/rel. The deliberate financial restrictions and points rules in MLS frustrate me to no end.
That makes no sense. You have Atlanta United, be glad and enjoy. Do you support Georgia Bulldogs or G Tech?, the Hawks?, the Braves?, the Falcons? Or are you just a Soccer guy?
The talent pools available are smaller for those sports so you can funnel talent to the NFL or NBA easier. For as big as these sports are in the US they are nonexistent in other parts of the world. In essence you control the talent pipelines you control how the league is run.
I live in Spokane, we just got a USL one team. I can firmly say that the soccer IQ in this market is low. They don’t know and or care about pro/rel, we are just happy to have another sporting event to go to. I am a season ticket holder for both Spokane and Seattle clubs and I honestly do not care about pro/rel. I don’t think it will improve either leagues and I do think it is going to get people interested in caring about soccer in the US if they watch European soccer. Those fans are not going to convert because the quality is poor in their opinion. We honestly don’t need pro rel in the US
Awesome to hear you have the Velocity to support! When MLS eventually returns to USOC, seeing Spokane face off against Seattle or Portland will be so cool.
The *regional* league thing is a thing - in Germany… [it's one part of] _"the hierarchically interconnected league system for association football in Germany that in the 2016-17 season consisted of 2,235 leagues in up to 13 levels having 31,645 teams, in which all divisions are bound together by the principle of promotion and relegation."_ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_football_league_system
I used to be a big MLS fan. I went to games, watched it on TV etc but it just didn't feel right. It was missing pro/rel. Eventually, I stopped watching. If USL brings pro/rel, I will get invested again. Until that day, I'm not interested In US soccer. The teams feel soulless because you can't really say that it's the best team around. The team was placed there and given money. It never grew organically.
Adding pro/rel won’t significantly boost USL, the main thing I hear from people is the quality of the games. FC Cincinnati is a great example. They had a small but loyal fan base then joined MLS, fan base grew a little, then got better players and were fun to watch and support. Maintaining stability so teams can build revenue and afford quality players has increased the popularity of soccer in these markets. Cincy is one of the best examples
I grew up in Monterey County so my local team is Monterey Bay FC, but I’ve lived up in the east bay for about 8 years now and Oakland is only 20 minutes away.
I grew up going to Richmond kickers games and got to see the undefeated season that resulted in Kahos winning that season. LA galaxy has been my mls team since I was choosing teams
In the USA there is a problem of scale. The promotion/relegation should start at the state level with 2 or 3 leagues. The 1 or 2 best teams from each state (We can adjust according to the level of the teams in each state with an elo ranking or in number of teams, some with 1 team and others with 3) would have access to national leagues USL and prom/rel with the MSL.
Pro/Rel is the dumbest idea ever for football not only in the US but globally. It completely obliterates competitive balance. Look at the biggest leagues in the world. All of them are, almost every single year, highly predictable. Hurray, its Bayern Munich generally. Or its Real or Barca. Or its Inter, Juva or AC Milan. Or in England it's the alleged Big 6. It's just code for only the biggest of the big clubs need try. And in the US that makes it a complete and utter waste of time. No owner is going to invest hundreds of millions to get a team, build a stadium, set up and academy just to put it at risk. The rest of the world is going to slowly look to move away from pro/rel anyway. Hence the cries for a super league in Europe. The reason is obvious. If the likes of Man Utd. can't assure themselves CL football their business model blows.
I see your point but disagree. I believe pro/rel helps improve competition. In the MLS, the closed system creates complacency. It doesn’t matter how well a team does because at the end of the year, they know they’re safe. There’s nothing at stake. And to your point about leagues in Europe, Leverkusen came out of nowhere and are looking to have a 100% invincible season, Girona lit it up in La Liga toward the beginning of the season. Leicester city did the impossible back in 2015/16. And while yes, it may be the same teams up at the top every year, those battles can go down to the wire and be very entertaining. And arguably, the relegation battles are just as entertaining, if not more so. Without pro/rel, you wouldn’t see stories like Luton earning promotion to the PL for the first time, or Sunderland’s crazy relegation survivals for the longest time. With Pro/Rel, there’s more to fight for imo. It brings out a passion from both players and fans that I don’t think can be matched by a closed system. Again, valid points on your end, and I highly respect it. I just wanted to throw my opinion out there.
@@Ziello0s 15 different teams have won the title. 16 different teams have been runners-up. The league isn't even 30 years old. Contrast that with Spain, England, Germany, Italy and France over the same period. Not even close.
@@tedlasso5876 and that’s valid. Like I said in my last comment, I’m not slamming your opinion. I respect it a lot. I just think that pro/rel will bring a greater level of competition and I’d love to see it implemented. I could be horribly wrong, we never know. I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. Because those years where it isn’t the same teams winning every year or there’s really entertaining battles for survival make it so worth it for me.
@@Ziello0swho cares about Luton getting a participation trophy? Is it really all that special to just be playing in the top league? It’s about having a chance to win the championship and those teams have no shot.
Great to see football growing in North America. Also very sensible to compare the US to Brazil in terms of size. I’d also like to see MLS teams competing in the Libatadores.
Colorado Springs Switchbacks season ticket holder. Great intimate stadium. Exciting action with players who want to play soccer professionally. Love the USL.
The "Pro/Rel" process is not a "necessary" component of a league in the US. Most pro teams go through boom & bust cycles any way, in which if they aren't successful, they fire the coach & GM, and start over. That amounts to the same thing as what happens in pro/rel situations. If you insititute pro/rel, you destroy an owner's ability to have his initial investment preseved which will discourage other smaller equity investors from contributing to a team. This will drive down balance sheets and a team's ability to buy more players, build nicer facilities, etc.... You will end u with just a few teams that are owned by very wealthy owner's which are likely from major cities as opposed to smaller, mid-size cities. The "Pro-Rel" process sounds cool when looked at from afar, but it is really a shit show. One example - When a team drops down, how many of that teams true star player's actually stay with the team & fight for promotion the following year?? Almost ZERO. Once in awhile a some stay, but the majority leave. I rest my case. I like Greg Lalas; seems like a solid dude, but not every aspect of Euro football is the "right way" to operate.
My community, the Antelope Valley in Southern California, will be getting a USL team next season in 2025! AV Alta FC! USL League One! It’s interesting I came across this video because I was at the Crest and team name reveal yesterday evening where the team founder and president mentioned to the crowd that the team will have the opportunity to get promoted into the USL Championship. So he made it appear that promotion/relegation will in fact happen.
My proposal for a pro/rel system throughout US soccer: -Division 3 will have 4 separate leagues (NW, SW, SE, and NE) -Division 2 will have 2 separate leagues (East and West) -Division 1 (MLS) Same as always with East and West divisions
Will US investors/owners buy into the relegation idea? Americans are all about profit first. If a team is relegated, will this hurt investment? I am all in, but doubtful it will work here. It would be interesting to see the process.
My local club is Hartford Athletic. Being Italian and an ultra of Italian football, I’m more interested in top level football which Serie A has. But, I got to say, it’s a fun night out to go see the athletic and I can support the usl more then the MLS and their greedy officials and owners
We need Pro/Rel. Im a Philadelphia Union Supporter (MLS). I would love to see the MLS and USL implement a Pro/Rel almost like what the UK is doing with EPL, EFL Championship, League 1, League 2, National League. It would wake up the worse clubs in the MLS and force them to do better and get better players or you get Relegated. Ive cursed out at our own ownership that "YOU GUYS ARE DANG LUCKY THAT MLS DOESNT HAVE PRO/REL or YOUR BUTT WOULD BE CANNED." (Note I use other words). Ive watched the US Open Cup Tournament and I see great things from the USL Clubs that would run some of these bad MLS clubs out of the League
I love the idea but I don't know if it will ever happen. Professional American soccer is too corporate and I don't know if many clubs will be able to make it work financially. Using England as an example, the clubs there, even in League Two and non-league, have the advantage of being firmly embedded in local town culture for generations. That is a really tough mountain to climb in the US, where in many communities the game has to be "sold" in order to gain interest and support (aka getting people to open their wallets to sustain the clubs)
If the US does do Relegation it can’t be the European model. There is a reason why when UK football was going to relegation the US was creating minor league systems for baseball. Probably one of the warnings for relegation is Luton. First off Luton is probably he feel good sports story of the decade. They’ve already done what Wrexham is trying to do while spending a lot less money to do it. On the other hand this year they were clearly overmatched and were not ready at all for the Premier league. Not just financially, but in facilities as well since it’s taking forever to get a bigger stadium. More to the point teams run themselves into serious debt trying to get promoted out of the championship league. It’s not just UK football, this is happening all over Europe. So if the USL and MLS do somehow figure out how to do this they need to figure out a system that doesn’t cause teams to go into bankruptcy trying to move up.
Dunno, boys. As a Brazilian, I love our pyramid. It is something very particular to the history of the game here, and it needs some adjustments, but works well (especially when considering Brazil is a continental-size country). Maybe the JLeague system would work better in the US. A league with clubs across all the country, big and small, united under a code of requirements, organizing the league and selling transmission rights together.
Great interview. Maybe I missed it but was there any talk about how deep pro/rel would go? Obviously keep it in USL and get it right but eventually it would be great to bring smaller leagues into it.
USL needs to partner with UPSL. UPSL has done what everyone wanted and organized the entire nations best sunday leagues into a proper conference across the nation. USL simply needs to absorb that into USL 2 since the better USPL premier teams can compete there. There are even UPSL premier teams that can go toe to toe with USL 1 or USL championship as seen at times by Foro (Dallas), el Farolito, Chicago Nation, etc. He mentioned this “keep everyone happy mentality” and thats whats killing the game. Its not all about being happy… compete.
I believe that the U.S would be a Top 10 football nation by now, if they would have started with a multi-league pro/ rel system, instead of a closed league.
Always lots of comments “if pro/rel happens, THEN I’ll support my local team” your local team needs support NOW! Don’t just virtue signal, help the sport grow in the US!
Definitely agree with you 100%!
11 Yanks has left the chat. I appreciate you actually calling out people for phony support.
Agreed, I’ll be going to my local upsl club’s home opener on Sunday!!
@@asapaul7671 nice! Doing your part to grow the game👍
😂 True! They won't support now they won't support later. Heck, they won't support when their team never reaches the top division after years of trying 😂
My local club is in USL League 1. If they were to introduce Pro/Rel, it would officially become my favorite league!
EDIT: (in case you misread)… my local club is already my favorite club; I’m talking about the league
which team do you support?
@@kevinbarnes218Forward Madison
Why do you not support your team now?
@@davidday2373Who said he doesnt?
This is exactly what I point out to people and use minor league baseball teams as an example. Minor leagues have may small attendance since people care less if it's not the top league. But if you allow the opportunity to let them move up, you would ignite a fanbase like crazy.
My hometown club is Union Omaha (USL1). In Open Cup play, we have beaten clubs from USL Championship and MLS. Since our club's formation four years ago, we have won the Players' Shield (regular season title) twice, League Cup (playoff championship) once, reached the playoff finals a second time (cancelled due to COVID-19), and made an Open Cup quarterfinal run.
The fact that we are still sitting in USL1 is a travesty. Any club with that resume has done more than enough to warrant promotion.
Big things happening for Union Omaha! New stadium bill passed and getting built and upcoming USOC game against Sporting KC! Rooting for y’all!
🦉
@@TMAC803210
Tough to draw SKC this early. But, we do get them up here. They put us to the sword a couple years ago.
In a universe in which pro/rel existed across the entire American pyramid, an Omaha/KC derby would potentially be pretty good. We have been KC's little brother for decades. Culturally, the two cities are quite similar.
But, we're a smaller, minor league city. They've had Super Bowl champions, World Series champions, and MLS since the league's inception.
The thing is, Omahans are proud. We are accustomed to running things within our own state. We don't like being patted on the head and told we're cute. And generally, when we decide to do something, we do it big and do it well.
Honestly, I feel Omaha would be a fantastic city to host a top flight, premiership club. The locals are fanatically loyal. We already turn up in huge numbers for other events (Creighton basketball, College World Series, Division 1 hockey, Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting, a half dozen arena and theatre venues for music, Nebraska football down the road in Lincoln, etc, etc). An MLS club (or whatever they might call themselves after some future hypothetical reform of the US pyramid) is hardly a stretch to consider.
As excited as I am about the new stadium and the entertainment district surrounding it, I was mildly disappointed by the size - 7-8 thousand, I believe. I was hoping for twice that size, TBH. Baby steps, I guess.
As someone on the far side of the country from you, I love you guys and am excited for your new stadium!
@@gabrielgroen2522
I certainly appreciate that. I'm looking forward to the new stadium. The great thing about it will be its location, called "NODO" (NOrth DOwntown) by the locals. The area has a lot of bars, restaurants, a nice riverfront walk, and mid-range to upscale condos and apartments. It's also walking distance to other sports arenas, concert venues, and the city's principal entertainment/nightlife district. A new light rail system will take fans from mid-city to the stadium (or quite close to it).
As for being on the other side of the country from us, join the club.
We are as far as we could possibly be from any part of the US one might call interesting, or so many people say. They call us flyover country for a reason. Others simply say that Omaha is the government's default destination for Mafia snitches in witness protection. (That last bit is actually true - Henry Hill of Goodfellas fame lived here after testifying against Jimmy Burke and Big Paulie).
Regardless, thanks for the love.
COYO (Come On You Owls)
It's little funny when you were discussing regionalisation it was mentioned about England being geographically small and getting around on a bus. The English pyramid structure is very heavily regionalised when you get towards the bottom. And this is for the exact same reasons, travel costs etc. The 11th tier is basically county level with small villages taking on works teams. Every Saturday at 3pm there over 5,000 clubs kicking a ball around, and thats just the official pyramid in the Mens game.
Facts! The French league is like that too.
You'd imagine the UPSL, NPSL, & NISA teams would quickly be absorbed into USL if they implemented pro/rel. If they can unite the rest of the pyramid under the USL umbrella it would be massive. To officially get the MLS vs the rest
USL is still expanding. If they can absorb other leagues later, then PRO/REL might work
@@nateskie75 Chicken vs the egg man. The people in these leagues are selfish that's the truth. I think this is a build it and they will come situation. There is NISA, USL, NPSL, UPSL nationally. And then there are other regional adult leagues not affiliated with what I listed. There is also some other league that says they will start at a 3rd tier league at some point. Getting them to unite isn't going to happen with "talks". If you offer these clubs the chance to actually move up the pyramid that's going to be the thing that brings in everyone. The American soccer scene is working more like a monopoly board because the federation has and is subservient to the MLS.
For what?
The only problem is USL has territory rights. Some clubs compete in NISA/NASL because they _can't_ join USL because another club already claimed the territory.
See OCSC/Irvine Zeta in the same region (USL1 vs NISA, same stadium)
NISA is professional; UPSL and NPSL are amateur. What does that add to the convo? Probably nothing, but still 😂
A closed system like MLS limits the number of teams to around 30 or so. Already we have major league cities that are excluded because it's too late unless a smaller city team relocates. With pro-rel you multiply the number of candidate cities, even though they can't all be in the top division at the same time, they do have the opportunity to get there. That should increase competition, which can only raise the level of play. Something one might consider if there are enough teams is to have two regional but equivalent "leagues" or "divisions" that play each other in an end of season playoff. (Baseball has two leagues and it used to be the World Series was the playoff.) Otherwise keep their schedules within the region. We easily have the potential for 40 or more big league cities.
Greg attempted to sidestep the question about MLS and USL competing. He was a little bit on edge when Filippo decided to push further 23:10. Good journalism Tac, no softball questions like the big broadcasters.
As a Birmingham Legion fan I really hope that the USL actually does it. That being said this all feels very disingenuous at this point. They have been promising this for five years and as a fan and a spectator it seems that very little, if anything, has actually happened. I was always raised and told that if you don’t mean it, don’t say it. If you say it and don’t mean it and keep saying it, nobody will believe you. It’s starting to feel like the USL is the boy who cried Wolf with promotion and relegation. Either stop fake promising it or actually do it. And look, if y’all don’t want to do promotion and relegation… That’s fine. No other sports league in the US does it. If you want to do it, that is great and I want to see it. Just don’t lie to us about what the actual plan is and keep promising something that isn’t coming.
To be fair, they haven't been promising it. They've only said they're interested and to do it they would need to be extremely strategic about it. The way league standards are set up and how few support they have compared to MLS, it would be a mess if they just flipped a switch. A lot needs to be done.
Keep in mind that they have needed more clubs for pro/rel and it takes time, but the USL is getting a lot more clubs, more clubs means pro/rel is more likely imo
as a Birmingham native, i think people should think more realistically. I don't see Soccer being big in the States especially when the sports haven't made it to the inner cities and the salaries are not as big as the BIG 3. NBA, NFL, MLB. Plus Soccer being a pay to play sport like all sports in the US is not helping its case. As far as I'm concerned, The MLS will be smaller than the WNBA or NCAA Women's Basketball in the upcoming years.
@@cuzzozanteeno2127 soccer is on a long growing trajectory in the states. MLS average attendance is 80% of MLB (though MLB has waaaay more games) and higher than NBA or NHL (which granted have lower arena capacity). USL and NWSL are on the rise too. The revenue isn't there yet but it's heading in the right direction. Plus with the world cup coming to the US in 2026, it is pretty clear that pro soccer is on the rise in the US.
There definitely need to be more teams that join the league. The USA is a huge country. There should be at least a couple teams in every large city
He says it in the video but for those who missed it & want to catch future USL games, all games are usually on ESPN+, certain games will be on CBS Golazo, and a select few throughout the season on CBSSN & actual CBS. Go Riverhounds !
Righto, I've cracked the code. Across MLS, USL and NISA there are 215 teams. Excluding USL2 there are 93 fully pro teams.
So: MLS (20 teams, 3 relegated), MLS 2 (20 teams, 3 promoted, 4 relegated), MLS Regional Premier (53 teams left split into North, South, Central and West, 12-14 teams each. 1 each, 4 total teams promoted, and 1 each 4 total teams relegated).
Now comes the USL 2 teams, functioning essentially like the English National League, using the same system as MLS Regional Premier. Now It's just called MLS Regional 1, MLS Regional 2, and based on geography it looks like the East could have MLS Regional 3. Approximately 9-10 teams in each region at each level. At each level one is promoted and one is relegated up to or down to their regional equivalent. Like in England though, there might be some reshuffling some years to balance the regional numbers (like national league north and national league south, my team Leamington FC have been in both.
Any new clubs then enter at the bottom regional level, no matter how rich the owner is.
Anyway - San Jose is probably starting in MLS2 and with 6 games to go could go on a tear and just nick promotion, or completely slump and fall to relegation, that kind of team. And at the moment I think Oakland Roots will be MLS Regional Premier and battling relegation.
No it is and always will be 32 in MLS no relegation. 32 teams in 2nd tier, no relegation. 64 teams in 4 regional leagues in 3rd tier no relegation. NCAA and High School soccer provide the rest. No further need of professional soccer is wanted or desired. Relegation is a waste of time, and if ever attempted in America would be made illegal. Essentially its fraud.
no
No, first off 20 teams is too few, No Pro/Rel will be tolerated in the United States or Canada so get that garbage out of your head. US Soccer will be MLS(32 team National league) 2 32 team league Regional Leagues(East and West) for the 2nd tier. 8, 16 league teams Sub Regional (North East, Midwest, South, and West), from there you drop to NCAA, and no further professional teams are needed, and you have 224 Pro teams over three levels, and 205 NCAA Division 1 programs, 206 NCAA Division 2 Programs and another thousand Division III and Junior College programs. League play for all levels starts April 1st, Ends September 30th. All teams play 52 games, games played Saturday and Tuesday without fail or exception. No Ties, Sudden Death overtime rules. No season pauses for Olympics or World Cup, No bullshit tournaments. League play or nothing. Playoffs are best of 3 played every other day. Also Countdown clock with a time keeper, no plus time.
Im a Louisville City fan and I love the USL but wish it got more recognition. The CBS deal was great exposure but I still think there needs to be better promotion to the general public about the league. I’m for promotion/relegation and hope in the future it is a thing but the way MLS clubs shell out big money to become a franchise makes me weary it will ever happen
Right now a theoretical "relegation" from MLS to USL would be a loss in franchise value in excess of ninety percent. That gap must close to make pro/rel feasible, and at the moment it just isn't happening. You put that kind of risk into the investment, say goodbye to your big expansion fees and fancy new soccer stadiums.
MSL sucks Louisville better not join MLS USL is planning to take over the US soccer seen it won't be long before a mls joins USl,lf Indy 11 joins MLS it will be destroying its franchise
I think that people are carefully thinking about but not mentioning is that American investment into football clubs are already happening and growing in Europe, seeing movie stars, athletes, singers want to convert their money into investments. The English football system has 22 American owners/minority owners in the top 3 leagues already. I wouldn't be surprised if more minority owners and sponsors would put more interest into investing once ESPN and CBS picks up USL, making it the next gold rush.
NISA and USL should merge in my opinion because they both want an open system and plus NISA would benefit from the financial help.
Don't like the "coming soon" in the thumbnail as it feels like bait. In my opinion pro/rel is indeed a possibility but won't happen for 5-10 years. They need heavy investment into stadiums to meet D1 standards. And they need a lot more teams across the board, but specifically in Championship, to break off a division to have in between Championship and League 1, so they can have a D1-D3 system. Because pro/rel from D2 below between two leagues isn't too attractive especially for casual fans. It's going to take a long time and a lot of work, but it's possible.
I"m a huge San Antonio FC fan and big fan of USL Championship and support the local team. Always concerned with MLS muscling into USL markets such what happened to San Diego and also what appears to be happening in Indianapolis. I think Pro/Rel would be a game changer!
USL is a cool league. It gives opportunities to the young American, young Mexican and young CONCACAF players. It’s a very organic league. These are some of the reasons why soccer fans like USL.
I'm glad you brought up the way Brazilian teams qualify for Serie D, most people don't know that. I actually think that's the route we should go if we do it, Brazil is the best comparison we have globally.
The whole world uses the same system. Brazil is not unique in this regard.
@@ivanpetrov5185 Brazil has a different take on pro/rel. It's not like the rest of the world. Japan does things differently also.
@@rq7284 could you explain what are the main differences (compared to European countries)?
@@axelll971 they have the top 4 tiers that are run by the federation. but below that it's only the state leagues. They have the national leagues that run for most of the year. But they also have the time when big teams play just the state league will smaller teams within that state.
For the lower leagues below 4, the 5th tier champions don't automatically qualify to the Serie D. And teams don't really relegate out of serie D. So they gave two separate pyramids (1-4) and the state pyramid. It's very complicated
@@rq7284 thx for the information.
I don’t really see the major differences with other countries. For instance, the French league has three professional divisions: ligue 1, ligue 2, and national 1. All of them have a promotion and relegation system (and playing across all the country). Below these professional divisions, there are (pseudo-amateur or) amateur divisions: national 2, regional 1, regional 2, division d’honneur, etc. All of these amateur divisions are played locally inside their distinct geographic areas and overseas French regions. Regional 2, and division d’honneur does not allow direct promotion to the other divisions. The teams in these divisions stay at the amateur level and play locally (as the logistics to made overseas French teams travel for playing every weeks against other French teams will be too costly).
In parallel there is the French national cup tournament. In this cup, the amateur teams start to play between each other in their respective division. The resulting winners travel and play against the professional teams (they travel one at four times if they made it too the final).
My team is one knox in league 1. Been going to games since their inception. But even regular sports fans/ casual soccer fans all think pro-rel would be amazing. Some are confused that it doesn't exist.
Jägermeister was the first company to put their brand on the jersey of a Bundesliga team in 1973. Since advertising on players gear was still prohibited back then it was just the brand icon without the word Jägermeister on the shirts of Eintracht Braunschweig. The advertising ban in the Bundesliga was lifted shortly after.
I would love to see it. If MLS wants to expand they could look to the top USL teams, maybe some agreement can be made there. The logistics of travel has got to be the biggest burden by far.
My son plays pro in NISA. If USL had true pro/rel he would absolutely change leagues as he was debating it already (NISA is struggling)
I am working on a franchise for USL 1 in Utah right now.. I'm curious how/where future franchises would buy in and be placed. They cannot be allowed to buy into Championship...
Where in UT? I'm in Salt Lake City.
My hometown had a USL team. I would get free tickets to the supporters section from friends who were there every home game. Unfortunately the team died during covid
to be fair MLS does a shitty job of advertising their teams too. lets not kid ourself here. USL has plenty of room to advertise. Sorry about ur team
through watching this video I was able to find out that I have a USL 2 team that plays in the fields across from where I coach. I will be supporting them this year even though their youth teams are rivals...
16 teams E&W = 30 games per Conference, the 8 or 4 extra games should be ranked games, top 4 East play top 4 West from last season results.
My local team is Coachella FC, USL 2 and its the inaugural season!
I didn’t know that
Multi-tiered professional football leagues are not a nice to have, it’s a MUST HAVE for Promotion & Relegation to catch up to the European Leagues.
very beautiful topic for me Dear Filippo I'm big fan of MLS and USA Soccer.🥰😍🤗
They only want you to be fans of USL not MLS.
I really want a USL team in Harrisburg PA! The only form of professional soccer we have in the CAPITAL of Pennsylvania is the professional indoor team the Harrisburg Heat. I’ve been to a game and they are fun but I would prefer to watch outdoor. Hopefully some team is formed soon!
My USL Championship club is RGV Toros. We completely dissolved in 2024 after around 8 years of existence. We had a fairly solid team too. Many, and I mean MANY USL teams, cannot financially support ourselves. Our stadium was usually 20% full most games. Right now, promotion is a very bad idea. Maybe in the distant future tho.
That's always been common with American soccer teams. Even former mls teams have folded in the past due to financial reasons. For a team to be successful there has to be a strong market to cater to. Without that how can a team survive unless they relocate to a market that is willing to support a soccer team
@@sergiorodriguez956 A lot of the problem is attendance competition from other leagues too. Most large cities have an NBA, MLB, and an NFL team. How many games overlap and how many people are willing to forgo attending another sport to see a soccer game. This doesn't even include college sports that are essentially D2 leagues. I think everything will have to wait on the 2026 World Cup... and that the USMNT will have to perform well in it to inspire the older generations to attend games.
The USL tried this before. Its not so easy, you don't just win the league and move up there is so much more involved. 1. every club needs to play on a pitch with lighting, 2. you need locker rooms; 3. the size of pitch; 4. to be competitive you need to pay your players more 5. the league fees goes up 6. the seating capacity has to meet a minimum size 7. the traveling cost can increase; 8. your front office staff needs to increase 9. your media and commercial footprint increases 10. the number and size of your sponsorship needs to increase to help cover your expenses; and there are more. For this reason most clubs put together a business plan and sign onto the league and division they do because of the costs, and the wealth of the ownership group involved with the club. The last time the USL tried something like pro/rel (this was back.... if I remember right in the mid 90s I think maybe only 2 clubs participated and moved up no one moved down, and then the league dropped the idea.
I didn't even realize that Las Vegas Lights FC existed until your last video. Now I want to go check out a match.
Im glad Fort Lauderdale has a women's team but we also need a men's team.
I agree for USL to implement the pro/rel system, as it gives more recognition for the teams. Plus, three of the USL Leagues are not far off each other in league attendance, financial, and supporters profile. So, for USL is no problem in the future if they implement pro/rel.
If USL adopts pro/rel I become a season ticket holder of my local club Forward Madison. That is my promise.
Forward Madison is two and a half hours from me does that count as local club?!? Lol
In the US, clubs are 100% businesses that a person or group buys into. There is an expectation that your investment will, at least, stay at the same "level" - at least in sports. I can see original USL owners being wary about ending up in a lower league and thus their investment taking a dump (though the argument is - you didn't mind the store enough). Those at the initial top of the pyramid have the most to lose but also to gain if the American public takes to it. But, imagine buying a McDonalds franchise, with its initial multi-million dollar franchise fee, and then ending up as a John Doe Burger joint...
FWIW, I am for relegation; it would be a news maker and really shake things up. Not that it is anything definitive but I just happened to have watched a number of "reaction" videos of Americans learning about promotion/relegation and each one loved the idea. They sort of all dislike that the worst team of their favorite sport really isn't penalized for being bad but rewarded in getting the best new players for next season...
Thanks for telling your following about the USL we appreciate the love
time to support USL, boys! LFG!
Doing it "right", just means pulling enough fans away from MLS to USL to make it matter and to bring MLS to the table.
That would never happen. This is some weird USL cope.
@@AKPhillythere are many (like me) who would choose USL over MLS if they adopted pro/rel. But are there enough MLS fans like me? I don't know. I don't think USL believes there are at the moment
@@khalilshahyd9063 MLS has a lock on the biggest markets. Nothing USL does will be able to compete with MLS.
@@AKPhillythat's the point of this discussion. USL needs something that can be a breakthrough for them. They are hoping pro/rel could be it, but will it? Are there enough people like me who are digusted by MLS ready to jump ship? We dont know.
@@khalilshahyd9063 pro/real is irrelevant in terms of competing with MLS.
I don’t have a local USL team but we are getting one in 2025 called USL Antelope Valley and will compete in USL league one. I live in Santa Clarita which is a suburban city in the LA county. But the stadium that is being built right now is about one hour from where I live. The stadium is in Lancaster which is in the same valley where I live. That’s why the team is call antelope valley. I don’t have a car but there is a train that passes by every hour. Can’t wait to support my local team soon!
I am a North Carolina native who has lived in Lexington Kentucky for the last three years. I have a child playing in the LSC youth league but I also watch out for NCFC. I'm a fan of both.
Here up in Maine I never thought would would have a team, but yet the name is being revealed tomorrow on the 27th for a league one team! Love the growth and great to see!
I am about 2 hours away from two League Two teams Lexington and West Virginia. I may go check them out this summer. Cincinatti FC is fours from my house, but tickets are outrageous.
If USL can SUCCESSFULLY implement a form of pro/rel and unite the other smaller leagues into it as well, then it will really force MLS’s hand.
When USL implements pro-rel and leapfrogs the MLS in prominence, it shouldn't even entertain the MLS. If some MLS clubs want to pay the fee to join to the ULS from the bottom-up then that should be open, of course.
What I would love to see is the following...
1. USL and the Canadian Premier League merge.
2. Four USL Leagues: USL Championship, USL League 1, USL League 2 and USL League 3.
3. Pro-rel between the Championship, League 1 and League 2. League 3 is the semi-pro or "pre-pro" league that League 2 is today and would not be part of pro-rel.
4. USL expand into metro areas without a MLS team that are roughly at least 1 million in population in the 🇺🇸 and 🇨🇦. San Juan, 🇵🇷 should also be included.
i think the canadian pl needs to stay in canada tbh thats the only issue i have with this
@@xaaviaudreek4859 Thanks to MLS, the 🇺🇸 and 🇨🇦 are tied at the hip to each other in ⚽️. Until recently, there were 🇨🇦 teams in USL League 2. This merger would increase the number of clubs, making it viable to implement pro-rel across three leagues. My USL League 3 would be comprised of clubs in the 🇺🇸, separate but on the same level with 🇨🇦's semi-pro regional League1 leagues.
@@dcapitan7We arent tied
If USL adopts Pro/Rel I'll become a season-ticket holder at Orange County SC.
You want a pat on the back, Pete? What’s the need to announce that other than trying to get likes lol
"If" ... wow.
@@davidday2373 lmaoo, right? Pete really doing his best to virtue signal looks pretty lame if you unpack that statement.
“If I get my way, then I’ll like you.”
Nothing is stopping you from doing so right now!
@@Phogadacbiet Conditional passion, I guess.
Bring Pro Rel to USA.
Bravo. Just watched both parts. Great interview.
Ive been to MBFC and Roots games with great experiences, but on TV these stadiums are tough to watch. Cant just have basic Community college or minor league baseball stadiums. Plus all the football lacrosse lines just take me out. Asking him about stadium infrastructure would have been great to hear about too
I don’t think it’s a good idea. Mlb was killed from the lack of parity. There is no salary cap, so if you’re not in a big market your team has essentially a 0% chance of winning a title each year. This is why the mlb is dying. If they introduced pro/rel to the mls a team getting relegated would make that team irrelevant and it would be a death sentence to the franchise. It’s not a good idea when people can just watch other teams in their city that still play in the top leagues.
Much rather watch and support USL teams than mls. Our original team is Little Rock rangers. Moved to Jacksonville Florida three years ago. Have been to a rowdies game, it was dope.
*I’m already supporting my local team. Go Rowdies! I dont consider any of these Messi wearing Mls fans real football fans. Its all just hype. It will take decades before the relegation system is where it needs to be*
Be careful what you ask for. Are League 1 teams financially able to compete in the Championship? If so, fine, but you may end up with League 1 teams electing not to take promotion, or teams self-relegating because they don't have the $$$ to compete at the USL Championship level. Would the Rowdies or Louisville City be able to maintain the same support playing Tormenta or Forward Madison if they were to be relegated? Just food for thought. I'm not against it, just not convinced it will work this late in the game.
I'm not convinced it'll take in America in a major way, here in England, clubs are big parts of certain communities (it is a ride or die mentality) ironically a club near me (Port Vale, I live in South Cheshire Vale Park is about a 30 minute drive from me) got relegated to League Two last week, and another club near me (Crewe Alexandra are about 25-30 mins away too) could qualify for the League Two promotion playoffs, im not a fan of either (my club is Arsenal, its my family's team) but I do go to some games at Vale and Crewe (also Stoke City, but that's the far side of the city) the crowds aren't overly big at Vale or Crewe (about 4000-5000 fans), it's a nice theory for the US, but it's not a part of your guys culture, so I'm not sure if the interest would be there if you suddenly switched to pro/rel, I think if the MLS keeps expanding they might toy with an MLS Premier and MLS 2 eventually, im just not sure Americans will take to pro/rel, like I said its just been part of our culture forever, you guys have never had that in any of your leagues
You make a fair point, with respect to American sporting culture. Promotion and relegation is indeed a foreign concept to us. Furthermore, the traditional pro/rel format does have serious problems which its advocates, both in Europe and the US, tend to ignore.
I believe that the American pyramid needs reform. MLS is far too large - 30 teams... No way. And there are too many different leagues occupying more or less the same space in the lower divisions.
Our target ought to be four fully professional leagues, each with 18-22 clubs. The good news is, the clubs already exist.
Next, promotion and relegation ought to be conditional.
First, a promoted club ought to have facilities adequate to the next higher league. That is a reasonable stipulation which already exists in England.
Second condition: a four team, two legged playoff between the bottom finishers of the higher league and the top finishers of the higher league. Any promoted club ought to show it can take points, score and defend against the worst clubs of the next highest league. Otherwise, what hope have they got to compete with anyone else at the next level? Conversely, any club which cannot take points from an inferior side with a smaller payroll has earned relegation. In fact, they've earned it twice - first, by being sh1t all year, second by losing to a club from a lower league.
A pro/rel playoff would be exciting and compelling. It would lend drama to lower divisions with less exposure, and a chance at redemption to clubs which have suffered a disappointing season. It would minimize the promotion yoyo effect we see in Europe.
I have been a fan of the world game since the mid 1970s. I have been a Celtic fan since the 1980s (yes, yes... Champions of a farmer's league). I desperately want to see my country embrace the Beautiful Game. I also want us to influence it positively by implementing the best parts of European and Latin American footballing culture whilst retaining the genius of Yankee ingenuity in the marketing of sports and entertainment.
@kentgrady9226 your right there are plenty of scenarios that could be used like the bottom team automatically goes and the 2nd bottom club has a pro/rel playoff with the runner up from the lower division (the top team is automatically promoted) like you said if you can't beat the lower league team you deserve to go down, I said to a few Vale fans the other week they deserve to go down, they played Exeter the other week were 2-0 up at half time and bottled it losing 2-4 in the end, to me the only problem I see is the culture thing with American sports, and will the support hold enough for the relegated clubs to stay in business, the MLS kind of works because its a massive country, and the East/West thing breaks things up a bit, with an MLS 2 there'll need to be a East/West dynamic again, like the best team from the East gets promoted to MLS 1 East and the best in the West goes to MLS 1 West and there's a playoff between the East runner up and the 2nd bottom Eastern team and the same with the West, I think it might happen some day with the MLS but not right now
Great 2 part video! Recently attended a Rhode Island FC match, and honestly found it fun and exciting . I used to be a season ticket holder to the NE Revolution, but that was some time ago, and I find the vibe with USL a bit more authentic than MLS now, and I'm not knocking MLS, but I feel more drawn to USL rather than MLS. Thanks for the video.
Phoenix Rising. Great atmosphere just a little hot in the summer.
If Pro/Rel is instituted, everyone needs to support their local USL clubs. This has the potential to transform the sport here
I’m afraid that won’t happen. You’ll see the same people who will only support their local club under conditions come up with new terms. “I’ll only support Orange County if they spend big money on players”
@@TMAC803210Those type of fans will just stick to watching the big clubs of Europe.
I think we need to grow the culture and the identity of local clubs to give fans a reason to care about them other then "be the best".
Why would I do that when my city has an MLS team
Louisville City FC fan!!! Just read on the USL site that they are currently working on this. Its coming. Will be great for the competition in the league.
Rhode Island FC season ticket holder from day 1!!! Anchors Up
I live in Atlanta and ofc we have Atlanta United but if it came down to it I’d support a USL team in ATL 100% of AtlUtd if USL gets pro/rel. The deliberate financial restrictions and points rules in MLS frustrate me to no end.
That makes no sense. You have Atlanta United, be glad and enjoy. Do you support Georgia Bulldogs or G Tech?, the Hawks?, the Braves?, the Falcons? Or are you just a Soccer guy?
I remain unconvinced this is a good idea for the American sporting system. Why doesn’t the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB use pro/rel? I just need convincing.
The talent pools available are smaller for those sports so you can funnel talent to the NFL or NBA easier. For as big as these sports are in the US they are nonexistent in other parts of the world. In essence you control the talent pipelines you control how the league is run.
PITTSBURGH RIVERHOUNDS
Come on you HOUNDS!!!
I live in Spokane, we just got a USL one team. I can firmly say that the soccer IQ in this market is low. They don’t know and or care about pro/rel, we are just happy to have another sporting event to go to. I am a season ticket holder for both Spokane and Seattle clubs and I honestly do not care about pro/rel. I don’t think it will improve either leagues and I do think it is going to get people interested in caring about soccer in the US if they watch European soccer. Those fans are not going to convert because the quality is poor in their opinion. We honestly don’t need pro rel in the US
Awesome to hear you have the Velocity to support! When MLS eventually returns to USOC, seeing Spokane face off against Seattle or Portland will be so cool.
The *regional* league thing is a thing - in Germany…
[it's one part of] _"the hierarchically interconnected league system for association football in Germany that in the 2016-17 season consisted of 2,235 leagues in up to 13 levels having 31,645 teams, in which all divisions are bound together by the principle of promotion and relegation."_
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_football_league_system
I used to be a big MLS fan. I went to games, watched it on TV etc but it just didn't feel right. It was missing pro/rel. Eventually, I stopped watching. If USL brings pro/rel, I will get invested again. Until that day, I'm not interested In US soccer. The teams feel soulless because you can't really say that it's the best team around. The team was placed there and given money. It never grew organically.
Yes to pro/reg. Charleston Battery!
Adding pro/rel won’t significantly boost USL, the main thing I hear from people is the quality of the games.
FC Cincinnati is a great example. They had a small but loyal fan base then joined MLS, fan base grew a little, then got better players and were fun to watch and support.
Maintaining stability so teams can build revenue and afford quality players has increased the popularity of soccer in these markets. Cincy is one of the best examples
So is ULS2 also included in the potential pro/rel?
It doesn’t seem like it’s been determined but most likely it’s the goal.
@@TacticalManager hopefully it is. Hell, if not they just need to rebrand and make a new USL2.
I grew up in Monterey County so my local team is Monterey Bay FC, but I’ve lived up in the east bay for about 8 years now and Oakland is only 20 minutes away.
I grew up going to Richmond kickers games and got to see the undefeated season that resulted in Kahos winning that season. LA galaxy has been my mls team since I was choosing teams
In the USA there is a problem of scale.
The promotion/relegation should start at the state level with 2 or 3 leagues.
The 1 or 2 best teams from each state (We can adjust according to the level of the teams in each state with an elo ranking or in number of teams, some with 1 team and others with 3) would have access to national leagues USL and prom/rel with the MSL.
Whatever league gets a Primer League-level promotion/relegation system I will watch. I am interested in a world Football pro/rel league in the US.
Pro/Rel is the dumbest idea ever for football not only in the US but globally. It completely obliterates competitive balance. Look at the biggest leagues in the world. All of them are, almost every single year, highly predictable. Hurray, its Bayern Munich generally. Or its Real or Barca. Or its Inter, Juva or AC Milan. Or in England it's the alleged Big 6. It's just code for only the biggest of the big clubs need try. And in the US that makes it a complete and utter waste of time.
No owner is going to invest hundreds of millions to get a team, build a stadium, set up and academy just to put it at risk. The rest of the world is going to slowly look to move away from pro/rel anyway. Hence the cries for a super league in Europe. The reason is obvious. If the likes of Man Utd. can't assure themselves CL football their business model blows.
I see your point but disagree. I believe pro/rel helps improve competition. In the MLS, the closed system creates complacency. It doesn’t matter how well a team does because at the end of the year, they know they’re safe. There’s nothing at stake.
And to your point about leagues in Europe, Leverkusen came out of nowhere and are looking to have a 100% invincible season, Girona lit it up in La Liga toward the beginning of the season. Leicester city did the impossible back in 2015/16. And while yes, it may be the same teams up at the top every year, those battles can go down to the wire and be very entertaining. And arguably, the relegation battles are just as entertaining, if not more so.
Without pro/rel, you wouldn’t see stories like Luton earning promotion to the PL for the first time, or Sunderland’s crazy relegation survivals for the longest time.
With Pro/Rel, there’s more to fight for imo. It brings out a passion from both players and fans that I don’t think can be matched by a closed system.
Again, valid points on your end, and I highly respect it. I just wanted to throw my opinion out there.
@@Ziello0s 15 different teams have won the title. 16 different teams have been runners-up. The league isn't even 30 years old. Contrast that with Spain, England, Germany, Italy and France over the same period. Not even close.
@@tedlasso5876 and that’s valid. Like I said in my last comment, I’m not slamming your opinion. I respect it a lot. I just think that pro/rel will bring a greater level of competition and I’d love to see it implemented. I could be horribly wrong, we never know. I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. Because those years where it isn’t the same teams winning every year or there’s really entertaining battles for survival make it so worth it for me.
@@Ziello0s problem is the math doesn't support pro/rel. Doesn't matter. No owner of an MLS franchise is going to agree to it anyway.
@@Ziello0swho cares about Luton getting a participation trophy? Is it really all that special to just be playing in the top league? It’s about having a chance to win the championship and those teams have no shot.
Great to see football growing in North America.
Also very sensible to compare the US to Brazil in terms of size.
I’d also like to see MLS teams competing in the Libatadores.
Colorado Springs Switchbacks season ticket holder. Great intimate stadium. Exciting action with players who want to play soccer professionally. Love the USL.
The "Pro/Rel" process is not a "necessary" component of a league in the US. Most pro teams go through boom & bust cycles any way, in which if they aren't successful, they fire the coach & GM, and start over. That amounts to the same thing as what happens in pro/rel situations. If you insititute pro/rel, you destroy an owner's ability to have his initial investment preseved which will discourage other smaller equity investors from contributing to a team. This will drive down balance sheets and a team's ability to buy more players, build nicer facilities, etc.... You will end u with just a few teams that are owned by very wealthy owner's which are likely from major cities as opposed to smaller, mid-size cities. The "Pro-Rel" process sounds cool when looked at from afar, but it is really a shit show. One example - When a team drops down, how many of that teams true star player's actually stay with the team & fight for promotion the following year?? Almost ZERO. Once in awhile a some stay, but the majority leave. I rest my case. I like Greg Lalas; seems like a solid dude, but not every aspect of Euro football is the "right way" to operate.
Central valley United lets go fresno 🔥
My community, the Antelope Valley in Southern California, will be getting a USL team next season in 2025!
AV Alta FC! USL League One!
It’s interesting I came across this video because I was at the Crest and team name reveal yesterday evening where the team founder and president mentioned to the crowd that the team will have the opportunity to get promoted into the USL Championship. So he made it appear that promotion/relegation will in fact happen.
Love the shirt! I used to be a season ticket holder before I moved away, COYR💛💚
My proposal for a pro/rel system throughout US soccer:
-Division 3 will have 4 separate leagues (NW, SW, SE, and NE)
-Division 2 will have 2 separate leagues (East and West)
-Division 1 (MLS) Same as always with East and West divisions
My hometown team NEW MEXICO UNITED . ALBUQUERQUE Chapter
They waited too long to do this
Will US investors/owners buy into the relegation idea? Americans are all about profit first. If a team is relegated, will this hurt investment? I am all in, but doubtful it will work here. It would be interesting to see the process.
My local club is Hartford Athletic. Being Italian and an ultra of Italian football, I’m more interested in top level football which Serie A has. But, I got to say, it’s a fun night out to go see the athletic and I can support the usl more then the MLS and their greedy officials and owners
Nice Ralph's Mob shirt. Come On You Rowdies! 💚💛
We need Pro/Rel. Im a Philadelphia Union Supporter (MLS). I would love to see the MLS and USL implement a Pro/Rel almost like what the UK is doing with EPL, EFL Championship, League 1, League 2, National League. It would wake up the worse clubs in the MLS and force them to do better and get better players or you get Relegated. Ive cursed out at our own ownership that "YOU GUYS ARE DANG LUCKY THAT MLS DOESNT HAVE PRO/REL or YOUR BUTT WOULD BE CANNED." (Note I use other words). Ive watched the US Open Cup Tournament and I see great things from the USL Clubs that would run some of these bad MLS clubs out of the League
Richmond Kickers
I love the idea but I don't know if it will ever happen. Professional American soccer is too corporate and I don't know if many clubs will be able to make it work financially. Using England as an example, the clubs there, even in League Two and non-league, have the advantage of being firmly embedded in local town culture for generations. That is a really tough mountain to climb in the US, where in many communities the game has to be "sold" in order to gain interest and support (aka getting people to open their wallets to sustain the clubs)
My town is getting a USL Championship team in 2026 and I'm excited for all of this. I'm diving in now to bring myself up to speed on all of this.
🤷 enough is enough MLS is doing just fine doubters🤷⚽🤫⚽
thank u for this type of discussions
If the US does do Relegation it can’t be the European model. There is a reason why when UK football was going to relegation the US was creating minor league systems for baseball. Probably one of the warnings for relegation is Luton. First off Luton is probably he feel good sports story of the decade. They’ve already done what Wrexham is trying to do while spending a lot less money to do it. On the other hand this year they were clearly overmatched and were not ready at all for the Premier league. Not just financially, but in facilities as well since it’s taking forever to get a bigger stadium. More to the point teams run themselves into serious debt trying to get promoted out of the championship league. It’s not just UK football, this is happening all over Europe. So if the USL and MLS do somehow figure out how to do this they need to figure out a system that doesn’t cause teams to go into bankruptcy trying to move up.
Dunno, boys. As a Brazilian, I love our pyramid. It is something very particular to the history of the game here, and it needs some adjustments, but works well (especially when considering Brazil is a continental-size country).
Maybe the JLeague system would work better in the US. A league with clubs across all the country, big and small, united under a code of requirements, organizing the league and selling transmission rights together.
Shout out to Flint City Bucks in USL2! Really great club
I don't love soccer but this was a very interesting video
Great interview. Maybe I missed it but was there any talk about how deep pro/rel would go? Obviously keep it in USL and get it right but eventually it would be great to bring smaller leagues into it.
USL needs to partner with UPSL. UPSL has done what everyone wanted and organized the entire nations best sunday leagues into a proper conference across the nation. USL simply needs to absorb that into USL 2 since the better USPL premier teams can compete there. There are even UPSL premier teams that can go toe to toe with USL 1 or USL championship as seen at times by Foro (Dallas), el Farolito, Chicago Nation, etc.
He mentioned this “keep everyone happy mentality” and thats whats killing the game. Its not all about being happy… compete.
The longer USL waits to implement Promotion/Relegation the less relevant it will become as MLS begins to implement it instead. Do it now or die out
I believe that the U.S would be a Top 10 football nation by now, if they would have started with a multi-league pro/ rel system, instead of a closed league.
MLS is trying to drive my city’s USL team out now 🙂 it’ll always be f*ck the MLS for me