Pour moi elle ne dors pas la petite souris ..... elle se cache plutôt derrière le rouleau en carton .... elle a un adorable et coquin petit museau ♡♡♡♡
I am curious how you and others have managed to convince a fairly wide spectrum of rodents that humans are trustworthy enough for them to lay on their backs in a persons hand or even seek out scratches/petting. They are so small and delicate, it seems easy to hurt them. I have always been a keeper of predators instead of prey, but recently a mouse did a very good job of convincing me his kind deserved further consideration. He is a pet now. Since then I haven’t had any issues with getting hamsters and mice to get on my hand within the first hour I get them home, and now they seek my company, but I cannot imagine their willingly laying upon their backs within the hand of a huge predator that smells of other predators, namely snakes and cats. Frankly the courage and/or insanity displayed by the mouse which decided to squeak at me and then hop into my hand (redolent of predator, as described) is what earned all of rodent-kind a new consideration from me. No, I am not trolling...I am quite curious.
So here's the thing. I treat all of my pets (mice and rats) exactly the same. I have kept a total of 14 of them in adulthood and my conclusion is kind of complicated. When a prey animal can trust a human, like you've described, it's due to a combination of that animal's personality and the bond it has formed with the human. Like I said, I treat them all the same. I have tried to tame all of my mice, but only one (Link) ever truly trusted me 100%. Granted, he would never lie on his back in my hand and he hated to be out of his cage, but he did actively seek out affection from me. One female mouse I had (Starfire) was extremely friendly and curious with humans, but never affectionate. Most of my other mice were just indifferent. Rats are a different story, because they are both prey AND predators in the wild. They're more trusting and curious, and probably more intelligent as well. They bond with humans more easily than mice. Of the five rats I've had, all have been loved equally, but not all have "loved" me. Each has had her own unique personality. Again, I have treated them all the same. Their personalities determine the level of trust. Only one of those rats lets me hold her in my hands and pet/snuggle/kiss her round little tummy. I'm glad to read that a prey animal (I presume a feeder mouse) has earned your consideration to keep him as a pet.
Lily's Mice I suppose the results I have thus far are the product of the intersection of personalities, as you mentioned, due to my treating all of my pets identically (so much as is possible due to the various species I keep). Due to that first mouse, I have a decent number of them now and even two Syrian hamsters. I have found that brown male mice trust me more easily than most others but I cannot really link that to anything conclusively nor can I claim any sampling rigor. A number of the mice do seem to enjoy my company, as they squeak at me while standing up near the point I remove them from their various housings. Most of them are indifferent to passingly curious though. I do keep the rodents in an entirely different room than the snakes, and wash my hands to prevent stressing the mice. My strategy for acclimating them to interaction is to place my open hand in the cage away from the mouse, waiting until the mouse climbs in, lifting the mouse out slowly, returning the mouse at any sign of anxiety and finally providing one of a variety of yogurt treats upon placing the mouse back. It is hilarious to me when they use their tiny hands to take the treat from my fingers. I don’t know why, but something about that strikes me as absurd, and thus comical. Thank you for your response! :)
That's a perfect strategy! And I concur with your brown mouse theory, because my Link was a brownie and I have read about this theory numerous times over the years. It could be coincidence, but I doubt it. There's substantial science proving certain behavioral traits of brown rats that only pertain to them, so anything is possible. There's something oddly humanistic, perhaps, about the tiny fingers of mice. I love watching them eat cheerios or other tiny treats. There's something so endearing about the way they manipulate their food in their hands.
Lily's Mice Here is a neat indication of psychological equivalence between mice and rats. www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/rats-see-pain-other-rats-faces I am not sure how accurate that is without having searched for peer replication. There also seems to be a heritable epigenetic influence on behavior as trauma can be passed, but if this applies to rodents I cannot say. I suspect that genetics plays a much smaller role than “nurture” from both mother and humans, with environmental epigenetic factors an entirely unknown quantity. In humans, trauma experienced by the parents can and is transmitted to the offspring, so there may be some degree of such for rats as well. Yes this is indeed a thing that exists: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140413135953.htm arstechnica.com/science/2013/12/in-mice-fear-learned-by-parents-is-transferred-to-their-offspring/ Have you seen the mouse and rat “grimace scale”? It seems useful if you can observe them without their knowing. Apparently they mask their pain around male researchers. I would paste that link too but I think the app might refresh and nuke my wall of text. :p I was considering a Gambian Pouched Rat, but they are less reliable behaviorally than normal rats, and may be illegal. Florida has a huge problem. There seem to be no breeders as well. Too bad, a 3’ rat would be neat to have. That’s like a cat lol There is a breeder of rats by the name Jozzy, of Jozzysratpackrattery.com Most of the links above are from a draft query I will send her way. She seems sane, unlike some who insist upon a contract, random calls, pictures, etc along with expecting you to “take an interest in” them “as a breeder”... O__o Sadly I am not kidding. I would put money on there being an underlying mental pathology.... If you know of good, sane breeders that will ship to NC USA do let me know. Save for “Jozzy”, what I have found was a disturbing random sampling from the DSM-5 lol
Re breeders - some may appear to go overboard in their requirements but people have good reason to be very cautious and particular about where their animals go. There is far too much abuse around so people may want to keep track.Re Gambian pouched rats - you can if you wish, find out more about them from the National Pouched Rat Society in the UK, which has members from around the world. I belong, although I'm not an owner, but just someone who is fascinated by them!
Aww! So adorable!
This is adorable!
What a good looking mouse Shadow is.
So cute :0
Pour moi elle ne dors pas la petite souris ..... elle se cache plutôt derrière le rouleau en carton .... elle a un adorable et coquin petit museau ♡♡♡♡
I am curious how you and others have managed to convince a fairly wide spectrum of rodents that humans are trustworthy enough for them to lay on their backs in a persons hand or even seek out scratches/petting. They are so small and delicate, it seems easy to hurt them.
I have always been a keeper of predators instead of prey, but recently a mouse did a very good job of convincing me his kind deserved further consideration. He is a pet now.
Since then I haven’t had any issues with getting hamsters and mice to get on my hand within the first hour I get them home, and now they seek my company, but I cannot imagine their willingly laying upon their backs within the hand of a huge predator that smells of other predators, namely snakes and cats.
Frankly the courage and/or insanity displayed by the mouse which decided to squeak at me and then hop into my hand (redolent of predator, as described) is what earned all of rodent-kind a new consideration from me.
No, I am not trolling...I am quite curious.
So here's the thing. I treat all of my pets (mice and rats) exactly the same. I have kept a total of 14 of them in adulthood and my conclusion is kind of complicated. When a prey animal can trust a human, like you've described, it's due to a combination of that animal's personality and the bond it has formed with the human. Like I said, I treat them all the same. I have tried to tame all of my mice, but only one (Link) ever truly trusted me 100%. Granted, he would never lie on his back in my hand and he hated to be out of his cage, but he did actively seek out affection from me. One female mouse I had (Starfire) was extremely friendly and curious with humans, but never affectionate. Most of my other mice were just indifferent. Rats are a different story, because they are both prey AND predators in the wild. They're more trusting and curious, and probably more intelligent as well. They bond with humans more easily than mice. Of the five rats I've had, all have been loved equally, but not all have "loved" me. Each has had her own unique personality. Again, I have treated them all the same. Their personalities determine the level of trust. Only one of those rats lets me hold her in my hands and pet/snuggle/kiss her round little tummy. I'm glad to read that a prey animal (I presume a feeder mouse) has earned your consideration to keep him as a pet.
Lily's Mice I suppose the results I have thus far are the product of the intersection of personalities, as you mentioned, due to my treating all of my pets identically (so much as is possible due to the various species I keep).
Due to that first mouse, I have a decent number of them now and even two Syrian hamsters. I have found that brown male mice trust me more easily than most others but I cannot really link that to anything conclusively nor can I claim any sampling rigor.
A number of the mice do seem to enjoy my company, as they squeak at me while standing up near the point I remove them from their various housings. Most of them are indifferent to passingly curious though.
I do keep the rodents in an entirely different room than the snakes, and wash my hands to prevent stressing the mice.
My strategy for acclimating them to interaction is to place my open hand in the cage away from the mouse, waiting until the mouse climbs in, lifting the mouse out slowly, returning the mouse at any sign of anxiety and finally providing one of a variety of yogurt treats upon placing the mouse back.
It is hilarious to me when they use their tiny hands to take the treat from my fingers. I don’t know why, but something about that strikes me as absurd, and thus comical.
Thank you for your response! :)
That's a perfect strategy! And I concur with your brown mouse theory, because my Link was a brownie and I have read about this theory numerous times over the years. It could be coincidence, but I doubt it. There's substantial science proving certain behavioral traits of brown rats that only pertain to them, so anything is possible.
There's something oddly humanistic, perhaps, about the tiny fingers of mice. I love watching them eat cheerios or other tiny treats. There's something so endearing about the way they manipulate their food in their hands.
Lily's Mice Here is a neat indication of psychological equivalence between mice and rats. www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/rats-see-pain-other-rats-faces
I am not sure how accurate that is without having searched for peer replication.
There also seems to be a heritable epigenetic influence on behavior as trauma can be passed, but if this applies to rodents I cannot say.
I suspect that genetics plays a much smaller role than “nurture” from both mother and humans, with environmental epigenetic factors an entirely unknown quantity.
In humans, trauma experienced by the parents can and is transmitted to the offspring, so there may be some degree of such for rats as well. Yes this is indeed a thing that exists: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140413135953.htm
arstechnica.com/science/2013/12/in-mice-fear-learned-by-parents-is-transferred-to-their-offspring/
Have you seen the mouse and rat “grimace scale”? It seems useful if you can observe them without their knowing. Apparently they mask their pain around male researchers. I would paste that link too but I think the app might refresh and nuke my wall of text. :p
I was considering a Gambian Pouched Rat, but they are less reliable behaviorally than normal rats, and may be illegal. Florida has a huge problem. There seem to be no breeders as well. Too bad, a 3’ rat would be neat to have. That’s like a cat lol
There is a breeder of rats by the name Jozzy, of Jozzysratpackrattery.com Most of the links above are from a draft query I will send her way. She seems sane, unlike some who insist upon a contract, random calls, pictures, etc along with expecting you to “take an interest in” them “as a breeder”... O__o
Sadly I am not kidding. I would put money on there being an underlying mental pathology....
If you know of good, sane breeders that will ship to NC USA do let me know. Save for “Jozzy”, what I have found was a disturbing random sampling from the DSM-5 lol
Re breeders - some may appear to go overboard in their requirements but people have good reason to be very cautious and particular about where their animals go. There is far too much abuse around so people may want to keep track.Re Gambian pouched rats - you can if you wish, find out more about them from the National Pouched Rat Society in the UK, which has members from around the world. I belong, although I'm not an owner, but just someone who is fascinated by them!
Can pay fo ur channel